Re: [WG: Code of conduct] Proposal

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Mon, Jun 10, 2024 at 3:33 PM Rich Bowen  wrote:
> ...Many ASF projects do not have a code of conduct, and push this up to the 
> Foundation. This mostly seems
> to work, in practice, most of the time, but the public *perception* is just 
> that they don’t have one...

I think this should be handled like
https://security.apache.org/projects/ : projects CAN have their own
code of conduct page and contact address, and if they don't they MUST
point to the ASF's page and contact address

-Bertrand

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Re: Some notes on ASF conferences.

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Mon, Jun 10, 2024 at 1:21 PM Claude Warren  wrote:
> ...Renaming the conference to "The ASFConference" or "ASFCon" would
> go a long way to mitigating this problem...

I agree that the current name is not good, but would also like to get
rid of the "con" suffix which means "idiot", or worse, in French. I
suggest "ASF Tech" or "ASF Tech & Community", but Naming Is Hard
anyway.

> ...The positioning is an issue...

It's always been like that, because our communities are all over the
place in terms of technology and tech culture. Which is not a problem
otherwise.

One thing that I hear repeatedly is that many of us get the most value
from the "hallways conference", meeting our peers in person,
spontaneously cross-pollinating ideas [1], etc.

How to "sell" that so people get a travel budget to attend, I don't
know. But for me that's the real value of the conference, and I think
the ASF as a whole gets a lot of value out of that.

The "ASF Hallways Conference" would be a surprising name indeed ;-)

-Bertrand

[1] For those who were part of the Maven chat in the Széchenyi baths a
few years ago, that's a fantastic example!

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Re: [WG: Code of conduct] Proposal

[Craig Russell]

> On Jun 11, 2024, at 03:05, Bertrand Delacretaz  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> On Mon, Jun 10, 2024 at 3:33 PM Rich Bowen  wrote:
>> ...Many ASF projects do not have a code of conduct, and push this up to the 
>> Foundation. This mostly seems
>> to work, in practice, most of the time, but the public *perception* is just 
>> that they don’t have one...
> 
> I think this should be handled like
> https://security.apache.org/projects/ : projects CAN have their own
> code of conduct page and contact address, and if they don't they MUST
> point to the ASF's page and contact address

I agree. I'll volunteer to be part of the working group to make this happen.

Craig
> 
> -Bertrand
> 
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> 

Craig L Russell
c...@apache.org


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Re: [WG: Code of conduct] Proposal

[Rich Bowen]

> On Jun 11, 2024, at 6:05 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> On Mon, Jun 10, 2024 at 3:33 PM Rich Bowen  wrote:
>> ...Many ASF projects do not have a code of conduct, and push this up to the 
>> Foundation. This mostly seems
>> to work, in practice, most of the time, but the public *perception* is just 
>> that they don’t have one...
> 
> I think this should be handled like
> https://security.apache.org/projects/ : projects CAN have their own
> code of conduct page and contact address, and if they don't they MUST
> point to the ASF's page and contact address

While I agree in principle, ComDev cannot say MUST to any project. We are a 
PMC, not a Board/President committee, and act only in an advisory capacity.

(I know you know this, but it bears reminding and repeating this for others 
watching this conversation.)

—Rich
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Re: [WG: Code of conduct] Proposal

[Craig Russell]

> On Jun 11, 2024, at 06:31, Rich Bowen  wrote:
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2024, at 6:05 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> On Mon, Jun 10, 2024 at 3:33 PM Rich Bowen  wrote:
>>> ...Many ASF projects do not have a code of conduct, and push this up to the 
>>> Foundation. This mostly seems
>>> to work, in practice, most of the time, but the public *perception* is just 
>>> that they don’t have one...
>> 
>> I think this should be handled like
>> https://security.apache.org/projects/ : projects CAN have their own
>> code of conduct page and contact address, and if they don't they MUST
>> point to the ASF's page and contact address
> 
> While I agree in principle, ComDev cannot say MUST to any project. We are a 
> PMC, not a Board/President committee, and act only in an advisory capacity.
> 
> (I know you know this, but it bears reminding and repeating this for others 
> watching this conversation.)

I suppose if the board wants to take some action it could pass a resolution...

Craig

> 
> —Rich
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> 
Craig L Russell
c...@apache.org

Re: [WG: Code of conduct] Proposal

[Rich Bowen]

> On Jun 11, 2024, at 9:55 AM, Craig Russell  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2024, at 06:31, Rich Bowen  wrote:
>> 
>>> On Jun 11, 2024, at 6:05 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Jun 10, 2024 at 3:33 PM Rich Bowen  wrote:
 ...Many ASF projects do not have a code of conduct, and push this up to 
 the Foundation. This mostly seems
 to work, in practice, most of the time, but the public *perception* is 
 just that they don’t have one...
>>> 
>>> I think this should be handled like
>>> https://security.apache.org/projects/ : projects CAN have their own
>>> code of conduct page and contact address, and if they don't they MUST
>>> point to the ASF's page and contact address
>> 
>> While I agree in principle, ComDev cannot say MUST to any project. We are a 
>> PMC, not a Board/President committee, and act only in an advisory capacity.
>> 
>> (I know you know this, but it bears reminding and repeating this for others 
>> watching this conversation.)
> 
> I suppose if the board wants to take some action it could pass a resolution…


The work that this working group needs to do is, I believe, a prerequisite to 
asking the board to make such a resolution. If you feel differently, don’t wait 
for me, but that’s how I see things.

—Rich (speaking with my fictional “hat” as a Member, not as a Director)

Re: [WG: Code of conduct] Proposal

[Craig Russell]

> On Jun 11, 2024, at 07:17, Rich Bowen  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On Jun 11, 2024, at 9:55 AM, Craig Russell  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 11, 2024, at 06:31, Rich Bowen  wrote:
>>> 
 On Jun 11, 2024, at 6:05 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz  
 wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 On Mon, Jun 10, 2024 at 3:33 PM Rich Bowen  wrote:
> ...Many ASF projects do not have a code of conduct, and push this up to 
> the Foundation. This mostly seems
> to work, in practice, most of the time, but the public *perception* is 
> just that they don’t have one...
 
 I think this should be handled like
 https://security.apache.org/projects/ : projects CAN have their own
 code of conduct page and contact address, and if they don't they MUST
 point to the ASF's page and contact address
>>> 
>>> While I agree in principle, ComDev cannot say MUST to any project. We are a 
>>> PMC, not a Board/President committee, and act only in an advisory capacity.
>>> 
>>> (I know you know this, but it bears reminding and repeating this for others 
>>> watching this conversation.)
>> 
>> I suppose if the board wants to take some action it could pass a resolution…
> 
> 
> The work that this working group needs to do is, I believe, a prerequisite to 
> asking the board to make such a resolution. If you feel differently, don’t 
> wait for me, but that’s how I see things.

We are in agreement. The board should act only after there is agreement on a 
proposal that has been carefully reviewed.

Craig

> 
> —Rich (speaking with my fictional “hat” as a Member, not as a Director)

Craig L Russell
c...@apache.org

Re: [WG: Code of conduct] Proposal

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

I can also help out here.

Kind Regards,
Justin

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