Re: [WG: Badging] Tooling
> On Mar 3, 2024, at 11:47 AM, Paulo Motta wrote: > > I've thought a bit more and rather than starting with multiple badges, it > probably makes more sense to start with a single badge to validate the > idea. More can be proposed later if the first one is shown to be effective. > > I'd propose a pilot badge called 'My First Open Source Contribution' > awarded to anyone first's contribution to an Apache project that opts-in to > this badge. This recognition is straightforward to compute and would allow > testing the program. I do not think that we need projects to opt in to this. Badges are not aimed at projects. They are aimed at *people*. I attended a talk last week at FOSS Backstage by Spot Callaway, who started the Fedora badges program. He said that the guiding principles are: * It should be fun, not legalistic. * It should celebrate non-code accomplishments at least as much as code ones * It should be easy - it should celebrate people automatically for stuff they’re already doing, rather than requiring them to go out of their way to request something, or jump through hoops somehow. * We should be able to give badges manually, so that we can celebrate spontaneous things. The example given here is that at every conference where Fedora has a presence, there’s a QR code that, if you scan it, you get a badge. This allows people to get badges for everything from attending an event to landing a patch to sending email to a list to whatever we can think of. We should also have a simple way for people to propose new badges. Spot noted that the bottleneck with Fedora Badges has always been the design of the badge, not the lack of ideas. If you have an apache ID, you should be able to start earning badges. The first time you sign into the badge system, you should already have a badge, because you’ve signed the ICLA and have an apache ID, which is, itself, an accomplishment. The bar should be *SUPER* low on this.
Re: [WG: Badging] Tooling
> I do not think that we need projects to opt in to this. Badges are not aimed > at projects. They are aimed at *people*. I'm not sure about this. Opt-in would be fine with me. I am worried about gamification and a flood of PRs just to get badges. I think experimenting with a handful of projects first would be ok. Gary On 2024/03/08 14:19:51 Rich Bowen wrote: > > > On Mar 3, 2024, at 11:47 AM, Paulo Motta wrote: > > > > I've thought a bit more and rather than starting with multiple badges, it > > probably makes more sense to start with a single badge to validate the > > idea. More can be proposed later if the first one is shown to be effective. > > > > I'd propose a pilot badge called 'My First Open Source Contribution' > > awarded to anyone first's contribution to an Apache project that opts-in to > > this badge. This recognition is straightforward to compute and would allow > > testing the program. > > I do not think that we need projects to opt in to this. Badges are not aimed > at projects. They are aimed at *people*. > > I attended a talk last week at FOSS Backstage by Spot Callaway, who started > the Fedora badges program. He said that the guiding principles are: > > * It should be fun, not legalistic. > * It should celebrate non-code accomplishments at least as much as code ones > * It should be easy - it should celebrate people automatically for stuff > they’re already doing, rather than requiring them to go out of their way to > request something, or jump through hoops somehow. > * We should be able to give badges manually, so that we can celebrate > spontaneous things. The example given here is that at every conference where > Fedora has a presence, there’s a QR code that, if you scan it, you get a > badge. This allows people to get badges for everything from attending an > event to landing a patch to sending email to a list to whatever we can think > of. > > We should also have a simple way for people to propose new badges. Spot noted > that the bottleneck with Fedora Badges has always been the design of the > badge, not the lack of ideas. > > If you have an apache ID, you should be able to start earning badges. The > first time you sign into the badge system, you should already have a badge, > because you’ve signed the ICLA and have an apache ID, which is, itself, an > accomplishment. The bar should be *SUPER* low on this. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
Re: [WG: Badging] Tooling
On Fri, 8 Mar 2024 at 15:15, Gary D. Gregory wrote: > > > I do not think that we need projects to opt in to this. Badges are not > > aimed at projects. They are aimed at *people*. > > I'm not sure about this. Opt-in would be fine with me. I am worried about > gamification and a flood of PRs just to get badges. I think experimenting > with a handful of projects first would be ok. Some people may not want badges; they should not be forced to have them if they happen to meet the criteria. I agree that opt-in is necessary. Personally, I do not see the point of them. > Gary > > On 2024/03/08 14:19:51 Rich Bowen wrote: > > > > > On Mar 3, 2024, at 11:47 AM, Paulo Motta wrote: > > > > > > I've thought a bit more and rather than starting with multiple badges, it > > > probably makes more sense to start with a single badge to validate the > > > idea. More can be proposed later if the first one is shown to be > > > effective. > > > > > > I'd propose a pilot badge called 'My First Open Source Contribution' > > > awarded to anyone first's contribution to an Apache project that opts-in > > > to > > > this badge. This recognition is straightforward to compute and would allow > > > testing the program. > > > > I do not think that we need projects to opt in to this. Badges are not > > aimed at projects. They are aimed at *people*. > > > > I attended a talk last week at FOSS Backstage by Spot Callaway, who started > > the Fedora badges program. He said that the guiding principles are: > > > > * It should be fun, not legalistic. > > * It should celebrate non-code accomplishments at least as much as code ones > > * It should be easy - it should celebrate people automatically for stuff > > they’re already doing, rather than requiring them to go out of their way to > > request something, or jump through hoops somehow. > > * We should be able to give badges manually, so that we can celebrate > > spontaneous things. The example given here is that at every conference > > where Fedora has a presence, there’s a QR code that, if you scan it, you > > get a badge. This allows people to get badges for everything from attending > > an event to landing a patch to sending email to a list to whatever we can > > think of. > > > > We should also have a simple way for people to propose new badges. Spot > > noted that the bottleneck with Fedora Badges has always been the design of > > the badge, not the lack of ideas. > > > > If you have an apache ID, you should be able to start earning badges. The > > first time you sign into the badge system, you should already have a badge, > > because you’ve signed the ICLA and have an apache ID, which is, itself, an > > accomplishment. The bar should be *SUPER* low on this. > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
Re: [WG: Badging] Tooling
> On Mar 8, 2024, at 10:24 AM, sebb wrote: > > Some people may not want badges; they should not be forced to have > them if they happen to meet the criteria. > I agree that opt-in is necessary. > If someone never logged in, they would never see their badges. That is common to all of the badge platforms that I have looked at. The notion that someone would be *forced* to receive congratulations is confusing to me. No, nobody is ever *forced* to accept congratulations. But the notion that we should refrain from congratulating people until they ask us to is rather contrary to how normal social interactions happen. > Personally, I do not see the point of them. That’s merely an indication that you’re not the target audience. Meanwhile, the Fedora Badges system is hugely popular, and makes people feel appreciated, which seems like a laudable goal.
Re: [WG: Badging] Tooling
Let me state this more clearly: > > If someone never logged in, they would never see their badges. That is common > to all of the badge platforms that I have looked at. For every badge system I’ve looked at, nobody receives any badges until they log into the system, creating their account. That is, these systems are all opt-in by default. If people are actual averse to receiving congratulations for their activities, then don’t create a badge system account. Done and done. I have yet to meet people who hate being acknowledged for their work, but in the event that they exist, they should not be troubled by this system. It’s important to remember that “I don’t get value from this” is seldom the same thing as “nobody will get value from this.” —Rich
Re: [WG: Badging] Tooling
On Fri, 8 Mar 2024 at 15:44, Rich Bowen wrote: > > Let me state this more clearly: > > > > > If someone never logged in, they would never see their badges. That is > > common to all of the badge platforms that I have looked at. > > For every badge system I’ve looked at, nobody receives any badges until they > log into the system, creating their account. That is, these systems are all > opt-in by default. If people are actual averse to receiving congratulations > for their activities, then don’t create a badge system account. Done and done. That addresses my concern. > I have yet to meet people who hate being acknowledged for their work, but in > the event that they exist, they should not be troubled by this system. Good. > It’s important to remember that “I don’t get value from this” is seldom the > same thing as “nobody will get value from this.” I was just expressing my opinion. > —Rich - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
Re: [WG: Badging] Tooling
On Mar 8, 2024, at 9:19 AM, Rich Bowen wrote: > > I attended a talk last week at FOSS Backstage by Spot Callaway, who started > the Fedora badges program. He said that the guiding principles are: > > * It should be fun, not legalistic. > * It should celebrate non-code accomplishments at least as much as code ones > * It should be easy - it should celebrate people automatically for stuff > they’re already doing, rather than requiring them to go out of their way to > request something, or jump through hoops somehow. > * We should be able to give badges manually, so that we can celebrate > spontaneous things. The example given here is that at every conference where > Fedora has a presence, there’s a QR code that, if you scan it, you get a > badge. This allows people to get badges for everything from attending an > event to landing a patch to sending email to a list to whatever we can think > of. FYI, Spot sent me the full notes from that slide: 1. It needed to be fun. The artwork should reflect that, it doesn’t need to be boring and corporate. 2. It needed to be easy. You should just start getting badges for the things you’re doing. 3. It needed to be collaborative. Beyond the badge code being open source (it was & is), people should be able to suggest new badges 4. It must go beyond code. Code is easy, other contribution types are harder, but we should do everything we can. 5. We should have a way to award badges manually, aka, not from the message bus. This allowed us to do badges for “visiting Fedora at an open source event”, which turned out to be one of our most popular badge types.
Re: [WG: Badging] Tooling
Sure, badging can be fun and it sure seems popular on GitHub: I do like my Mars 2020 Helicopter Mission badge (https://github.com/garydgregory/) ! I wonder if there are there any privacy issue we should be able to foresee? I would guess that badges would be derived from data that a member from the internet public might be able to painstakingly assemble, but maybe not. Should a person be allowed to opt out of a specific badge or the whole badge system? Gary On 2024/03/08 15:44:01 Rich Bowen wrote: > Let me state this more clearly: > > > > > If someone never logged in, they would never see their badges. That is > > common to all of the badge platforms that I have looked at. > > For every badge system I’ve looked at, nobody receives any badges until they > log into the system, creating their account. That is, these systems are all > opt-in by default. If people are actual averse to receiving congratulations > for their activities, then don’t create a badge system account. Done and done. > > I have yet to meet people who hate being acknowledged for their work, but in > the event that they exist, they should not be troubled by this system. > > It’s important to remember that “I don’t get value from this” is seldom the > same thing as “nobody will get value from this.” > > —Rich - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
Re: [WG: Badging] Tooling
> On Mar 8, 2024, at 12:09 PM, Gary D. Gregory wrote: > > Sure, badging can be fun and it sure seems popular on GitHub: I do like my > Mars 2020 Helicopter Mission badge (https://github.com/garydgregory/) ! > > I wonder if there are there any privacy issue we should be able to foresee? > > I would guess that badges would be derived from data that a member from the > internet public might be able to painstakingly assemble, but maybe not. > Every badge that I’ve come up with in brainstorming about this has been either 1) based on public information or 2) something that the recipient requests (like “I attended a particular event.”). None of it seemed particularly painstaking. Do you have concerns? > Should a person be allowed to opt out of a specific badge or the whole badge > system? As I said in the email you responded to … >> >> For every badge system I’ve looked at, nobody receives any badges until they >> log into the system, creating their account. That is, these systems are all >> opt-in by default. If people are actual averse to receiving congratulations >> for their activities, then don’t create a badge system account. Done and >> done. >> Whether a person can opt out of a particular badge, that’s more a tooling question. I would assume that the answer is “yes” since this is just data, and data can be deleted. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
Re: [WG: Badging] Tooling
Hi Rich, I don't have specific realistic concerns, I am trying to look ahead and avoid a "how didn't yiu guys think of THIS!" moment 😀 Gary On Fri, Mar 8, 2024, 12:19 PM Rich Bowen wrote: > > On Mar 8, 2024, at 12:09 PM, Gary D. Gregory > wrote: > > > > Sure, badging can be fun and it sure seems popular on GitHub: I do like > my Mars 2020 Helicopter Mission badge (https://github.com/garydgregory/) ! > > > > I wonder if there are there any privacy issue we should be able to > foresee? > > > > I would guess that badges would be derived from data that a member from > the internet public might be able to painstakingly assemble, but maybe not. > > > > Every badge that I’ve come up with in brainstorming about this has been > either 1) based on public information or 2) something that the recipient > requests (like “I attended a particular event.”). None of it seemed > particularly painstaking. Do you have concerns? > > > > Should a person be allowed to opt out of a specific badge or the whole > badge system? > > > As I said in the email you responded to … > > >> > >> For every badge system I’ve looked at, nobody receives any badges until > they log into the system, creating their account. That is, these systems > are all opt-in by default. If people are actual averse to receiving > congratulations for their activities, then don’t create a badge system > account. Done and done. > >> > > Whether a person can opt out of a particular badge, that’s more a tooling > question. I would assume that the answer is “yes” since this is just data, > and data can be deleted. > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > >
Re: [WG: Badging] Tooling
Nice discussion! A few comments: > I do not think that we need projects to opt in to this. Badges are not aimed at projects. They are aimed at *people*. Disagree. Projects should have the autonomy to decide if they want to adopt the ASF badging system for their contributions. I do not see why a project would opt-out, but if they want to they should have this prerrogative. > I am worried about gamification and a flood of PRs just to get badges. What’s the worry? A flood of PRs seems like a good thing for projects needing contributions. 😊 > Some people may not want badges; they should not be forced to have them if they happen to meet the criteria. Badges need to be accepted by the awardee before being emitted. > Personally, I do not see the point of them. You are probably not the target audience for badges if you are a seasoned contributor. > I wonder if there are there any privacy issue we should be able to foresee? priv...@apache.org should determine if the privacy policy of the chosen badging provider is acceptable, Badging WG members should not worry about this. On Fri, 8 Mar 2024 at 12:38 Gary Gregory wrote: > Hi Rich, > > I don't have specific realistic concerns, I am trying to look ahead and > avoid a "how didn't yiu guys think of THIS!" moment 😀 > > Gary > > On Fri, Mar 8, 2024, 12:19 PM Rich Bowen wrote: > > > > On Mar 8, 2024, at 12:09 PM, Gary D. Gregory > > wrote: > > > > > > Sure, badging can be fun and it sure seems popular on GitHub: I do like > > my Mars 2020 Helicopter Mission badge (https://github.com/garydgregory/) > ! > > > > > > I wonder if there are there any privacy issue we should be able to > > foresee? > > > > > > I would guess that badges would be derived from data that a member from > > the internet public might be able to painstakingly assemble, but maybe > not. > > > > > > > Every badge that I’ve come up with in brainstorming about this has been > > either 1) based on public information or 2) something that the recipient > > requests (like “I attended a particular event.”). None of it seemed > > particularly painstaking. Do you have concerns? > > > > > > > Should a person be allowed to opt out of a specific badge or the whole > > badge system? > > > > > > As I said in the email you responded to … > > > > >> > > >> For every badge system I’ve looked at, nobody receives any badges > until > > they log into the system, creating their account. That is, these systems > > are all opt-in by default. If people are actual averse to receiving > > congratulations for their activities, then don’t create a badge system > > account. Done and done. > > >> > > > > Whether a person can opt out of a particular badge, that’s more a tooling > > question. I would assume that the answer is “yes” since this is just > data, > > and data can be deleted. > > > > > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > > > > >
