Re: [WG: Sharpeners] Proposed: Escalation advice
Yes. We had discussion (and slack conversation) with Rich and I shared some of the same questions and possible clarifications in the docs (which I will also propose PRs for in a few days as I am pursuing Biathlon World Championships this weekend with my wife - in Czech Republic most of the time :) . My main points (and PRs to propose) as I understand it (note that this is my interpretation and further thinkin on how I understand / would like to see Sharpener program now and likely will turn into proposals of PRs to the concept): 1) clarify that the escalation and reports are nothing exclusive to Sharpeners. The escalation described in the document linked to by Rich should happen is basically anything, any ASF member notices as a clear violation of ASF rules - and they should feel obliged to do so if they see, make comments about to the PMC and get rejected or ignored, nothing "sharpener specific". This should not be seen as a prerogative, special privilege, super-power of or anything expected from Sharpeners specifically. This is what any ASF member should do (and introducing the Sharpener concept might be a good opportunity to remind members about BTW). 2) I think one of the Goal of Sharpeners (not stated explicitly) is to make sure that all the conversation initiated around the "ASF way" should happen in the "devlist" - i.e. the place where for example Board Members looking at the project will be sure to find. This covers the cases where it's not clear. My goal here is to make sure that when Sharpener is involved in the PMC, it does not lessen the Board overlook over the project. It's still there and if Sharpener will not realise or will not interpret a behaviour as "wrong" it is still in the hands of Board members to assess the project. I think the fact that Sharpener is looking at particular PMC should be noted somewhere - so that - for example - Board member who wants to review the project at regular review could see at the history of devlist conversations which Sharpener started or took part in (simple filter in ponymail) and will be able to assess on their own if the PMC needs any action and discussion at the Board level Why the above? [I think the 2 points above combined are a great way to make the Board Member's work way easier when reviewing projects, without delegating the responsibility to the Sharpener to do such a review]. IMHO the job of Sharpeners is to help and disseminate Apache Way, but not to take responsibility for the project's conformance and deciding on thresholds where board action is required (except some obvious cases as outlined in the escalation document - but this is a regular Member obligation anyway, not Sharpener in particular, so this is mostly a different bucket altogether). 3) I also think that indeed - there are those two modes the relationship PMC <> Sharpener starts (and yes I also plan to do PR on that, because I do think it needs to be very explicit to explain in the program, how the relationship starts): * PMC asks for help when they struggle (or when the board encourages them to do so). This requires likely to recruit a number of "potential sharpeners" with listing their interest and willingness to help but IMHO it also needs a lot of advertising of the whole concept. Very similar case was with https://whimsy.apache.org/members/mentors - which had a very similar goal but no-one knows about. And we should learn from that program - i..e. we as a working group should have a goal to make the program known to PMCs and idea how to do it if we want this part to be successful. I have few ideas about it, but it very much depends on the final shape of the whole program, because there might be different incentives we might think of and different communication mechanisms that can be used to both - market this among the PMCs. * Sharpener asks if they can join the project as Sharpener - which might be driven by personal interest, existing relationships with the people in the project or just a genuine need to do "good thing" and spread the things you believe in in projects that you think might need it (there might be other reasons as well - I can imagine Sharpeners might do it for example because they think it's good to learn something about the project and this might be a cool opportunity to start getting involved), or because they want to share things they've done to follow "Apache Way" and they see that experience might be replicated in another project (AKA "lead by example"). Here again I think a lot depends on the final shape of the program (including the potential incentives and target group of Sharpeners the program should have). I think we should also be quite explicit how those relations are NOT set. For example it should never be that the Board should ask a potential Sharpener to become one for a specific project because they need someone there (or at least I think it's not and should never be the purpose of the program). Maybe that's implicit, but I think i
[WG: Sharpeners] Propose: milder name
Sorry, but I find the name 'Sharpeners' antagonistic and aggressive. To me it sounds like a group gearing up for a fight. Having names that are alliterative is all very well, but I don't think it should be at the expense of a name that has negative connotations. I am wary of starting a bike shed argument, but the current name is not appropriate in my view. I wonder if Shapers would do? Just a suggestion. Sebb - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
Re: [ALC] Request to establish ALC in Hangzhou, China
Hi, Happy Chinese New Year! Just came back from holiday, is there any update on where we are now with the request or anything I can do for this? Regards, Jun Liu > On Jan 8, 2024, at 2:51 PM, Swapnil M Mane wrote: > > Awesome, thank you so much everyone for your interest in establishing ALC > Hangzhou. > Thank you Jun Liu for initiating the mail and collecting all these details. > > Just an update, I have shared an email with the next steps to all the > interested members. > This mail includes the roles and responsibilities associated with ALC. > Once we can get acknowledgment from the respective members, we will proceed > to the next step. > > Gald to the enthusiasm for the new ALC, looking forward to it, thank you > again Jun, Willem, and everyone! :) > > Best Regards, > Swapnil M Mane > > > On Wed, Dec 27, 2023 at 2:35 PM Jun Liu wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> It's been more than a week, sorry for having keep you waiting. >> >> I spent several days last week to talk with some of the members who live >> in Hangzhou. Below is a brief collection of related projects, members >> together with roles in ASF who have shown interest in founding of ALC >> Hangzhou. >> >> The collection below is based on my personal life experience in Hangzhou, >> in person or online conversations I had with some members, and also replies >> in this email. Therefore, if there are any errors or omissions, please feel >> free to correct by replying to it directly, as this is not a formal member >> list or anything like that. >> >> Mentor: >> Willam Jiang >> >> Projects with at least 3 active committers or PMCs in Hangzhou: >> Apache Dubbo >> Apache RocketMQ >> Apache Flink >> Apache Kyuubi >> Apache Paimon(incubating) >> Apache Answer(incubating) >> Apache Seata(incubating) >> Apache Celeborn(incubating) >> >> Projects with at lease one active committers or PMCs in Hangzhou: >> Apache Spark >> Apache Toree(incubating) >> >> Apache Members in Hangzhou >> * Huxing Zhang >> * Xin Wang >> * Yu Li >> * Xiaorui Wang >> * Xinyu Zhou >> >> Members would like to be part of ALC Hangzhou >> * Jark Wu, Apache Flink PMC Member >> * JinSong Li, Apache Flink PMC Member, Apache Paimon(Incubating) PPMC >> Member >> * Yu Li, Apache Flink PMC Member >> * Qingshan Lin, Apache RocketMQ PMC Member >> * Xiaorui Wang, Apache RocketMQ PMC Chair >> * Xinyu Zhou, Apache RocketMQ PMC Member >> * Jun Liu, Apache Dubbo PMC Chair >> * Heqing Jiang, Apache Dubbo PMC Member >> * Zhongming Hua, Apache Dubbo PMC Member >> * YunXing Zhao, Apache Dubbo PMC Member >> * JianBin Chen, Apache Seata(incubating) PPMC Member >> * Jiangke Wu, Apache Seata(incubating) PPMC Member >> * Qin Yao, Apache Kyuubi PMC Member, Apache Spark Committer >> * Xiduo You, Apache Kyuubi PMC Member，Apache Spark Committer >> * Cheng Pan, Apache Kyuubi PMC Member, Apache Celeborn(incubating) PPMC >> Member, Apache Toree(incubating) PPMC Member >> * Binjie Yang, Apache Kyuubi Committer, Apache Celeborn Committer >> * Ning Qi, Apache Apache Answer(incubating) PPMC Member >> * Feng Dong, Apache Answer(incubating) PPMC Member >> * Bo Jiang, Apache Answer(incubating) PPMC Member >> * Cheng Ming, Apache Answer(incubating) PPMC Member >> * Enxin Xie, Apache Answer(incubating) PPMC Member >> * Yubin Ren, Apache Answer(incubating) PPMC Member >> * Shuailing Li, Apache Answer(incubating) PPMC Member >> * Nadia Jiang, Apache Answer(incubating) PPMC Member >> * Fenggen He, Apache Shenyu PMC Member >> * Yu Xiao, Apache Shenyu PMC Chair >> * Zicheng Zhang, Apache Shenyu PMC Member >> >> Regards, >> Ken >> >> >> >>> On Dec 15, 2023, at 5:13 PM, Jun Liu wrote: >>> >>> I’m glad to see this discussion has drawn so much attention from the >> community. I will give a brief summary of the thread and send it here >> later. It would be something based both on my open source life experience >> in Hangzhou and the information we got from this thread, mainly about the >> active members, projects that would like to be part of ALC Hangzhou. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Jun Liu >>> >>> >>> On Dec 15, 2023, at 4:51 PM, Jun Liu wrote: Welcome, Fengen. Regards, Jun Liu > On Dec 14, 2023, at 10:36 PM, Fengen He wrote: > > +1 > > I'm glad to be a part of ALC Hangzhou. > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > >>> >> >> - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
