Re: New Project Proposal

[Rich Bowen]

Hi, Ayaan,

Thanks for your interest in the Apache Software Foundation.

New projects enter the ASF through the Incubator, which you can read about at 
https://incubator.apache.org/

In particular, this document - https://incubator.apache.org/cookbook/ - may 
help you decide whether the ASF is a good home for your project. It’s kind of a 
long document, but entering the Incubator is a long-term commitment, so it’s 
worth going in informed.

— 
Rich Bowen
rbo...@rcbowen.com




> On Feb 10, 2024, at 6:13 AM, Ayaan Khan  wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> Few months back I started an open source project to develop a high
> performance web framework to program web applications in C++ with ease and
> simplicity. The purpose was to promote C++ in the field of web programming
> by providing a very simple API to develop web applications within very few
> lines of code along with the advantage of its blazing fast speed. This
> would allow people to code complex web APIs that require heavy computation
> in C++ easily, it would be highly scalable and would be able to handle
> enormous amounts of requests simultaneously leveraging the cpu throughput
> at its maximum. Currently, this framework is in its early stages, and I am
> thinking of growing it under the Apache umbrella. I think it would be great
> if we add this project to the apache software foundation. Where a lot of
> people would come and contribute to this project. It would be a great
> learning experience for a lot of people among us.
> 
> Please let me know your thoughts on this proposal.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Regards,
> Ayaan Khan

[REQUEST] Create apache/community GitHub Repo (WAS: Working groups working group)

[tison]

According to the INFRA ticket [1], we'd better create the
apache/community GitHub repo first.

I'm glad to execute the self-serve command but I'm yet to be a COMDEV
PMC member. I remember that in another thread, it's said that an
Apache Member can self-request to be a PMC member, so:

* If any COMDEV PMC member can create the GitHub repo on self-serve
platform [2];
* If it's possible, I'd like to self-request to be a PMC member and do
the set up by myself.

What do you think?

[1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-25482
[2] https://gitbox.apache.org/boxer/?action=newrepo

Best,
tison.

tison  于2024年2月8日周四 22:49写道：
>
> >> I just want to make these things more discoverable
> > please feel free to jump in and make an infra ticket to move/mirror that to 
> > GitHub
>
> If discoverable is an object, I suggest we use GitHub, at least as a
> mirror and accept issues and discussions. It's also easier to share
> over social media.
>
> I created the ticket that you can check [1].
>
> Best,
> tison.
>
> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-25482
>
> Rich Bowen  于2024年2月8日周四 22:32写道：
> >
> >
> > > On Feb 7, 2024, at 11:22 AM, Rich Bowen  wrote:
> > >
> > > * Where to we want to track WG status? I would propose that we create 
> > > GitHub.com/apache/community  for 
> > > stuff like this, to mirror GitHub.com/kubernetes/community 
> > > , at least in spirit, but would 
> > > like to discuss this with more people
> >
> > I’ve started putting stuff in 
> > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/community
> >
> > I like svn. If you don’t, please feel free to jump in and make an infra 
> > ticket to move/mirror that to GitHub.
> >
> > —Rich
> >

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Re: [WG: Sharpeners] Proposed - Sharpeners

[Rich Bowen]

— 
Rich Bowen
rbo...@rcbowen.com




> On Feb 11, 2024, at 6:04 PM, Phil Steitz  wrote:
> 
> I am working on a PR to take a stab at tweaking the wording.  I am also
> playing with some ideas around use cases - kinds of things sharpeners will
> work on.  I think it's really a good idea to get some rough consensus on
> what is in/out of scope before we start this.

Indeed. Both what’s in and out of scope, and specific examples would be really 
helpful. I am sure that I have a lot of preconceived notions of how *I* would 
do this kind of work, but one of the major goals of working groups is to 
document this so that people without those assumptions can get involved without 
too much ramp-up time.

Looking forward to your thoughts on this.

Re: [REQUEST] Create apache/community GitHub Repo (WAS: Working groups working group)

[Rich Bowen]

On Feb 12, 2024, at 10:13 AM, tison  wrote:
> 
> According to the INFRA ticket [1], we'd better create the
> apache/community GitHub repo first.
> 
> I'm glad to execute the self-serve command but I'm yet to be a COMDEV
> PMC member. I remember that in another thread, it's said that an
> Apache Member can self-request to be a PMC member, so:
> 
> * If any COMDEV PMC member can create the GitHub repo on self-serve
> platform [2];
> * If it's possible, I'd like to self-request to be a PMC member and do
> the set up by myself.


Done.

Meanwhile, as per ComDev policy, your request to be a ComDev PMC member is 
approved. Swapnil, can you pull the lever, please.

Thanks.

Re: [REQUEST] Create apache/community GitHub Repo (WAS: Working groups working group)

[sebb]

Why not migrate the SVN repo to Git?
Is there any need to keep the info in SVN?

On Mon, 12 Feb 2024 at 15:14, tison  wrote:
>
> According to the INFRA ticket [1], we'd better create the
> apache/community GitHub repo first.
>
> I'm glad to execute the self-serve command but I'm yet to be a COMDEV
> PMC member. I remember that in another thread, it's said that an
> Apache Member can self-request to be a PMC member, so:
>
> * If any COMDEV PMC member can create the GitHub repo on self-serve
> platform [2];
> * If it's possible, I'd like to self-request to be a PMC member and do
> the set up by myself.
>
> What do you think?
>
> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-25482
> [2] https://gitbox.apache.org/boxer/?action=newrepo
>
> Best,
> tison.
>
> tison  于2024年2月8日周四 22:49写道：
> >
> > >> I just want to make these things more discoverable
> > > please feel free to jump in and make an infra ticket to move/mirror that 
> > > to GitHub
> >
> > If discoverable is an object, I suggest we use GitHub, at least as a
> > mirror and accept issues and discussions. It's also easier to share
> > over social media.
> >
> > I created the ticket that you can check [1].
> >
> > Best,
> > tison.
> >
> > [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-25482
> >
> > Rich Bowen  于2024年2月8日周四 22:32写道：
> > >
> > >
> > > > On Feb 7, 2024, at 11:22 AM, Rich Bowen  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > * Where to we want to track WG status? I would propose that we create 
> > > > GitHub.com/apache/community  for 
> > > > stuff like this, to mirror GitHub.com/kubernetes/community 
> > > > , at least in spirit, but would 
> > > > like to discuss this with more people
> > >
> > > I’ve started putting stuff in 
> > > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/community
> > >
> > > I like svn. If you don’t, please feel free to jump in and make an infra 
> > > ticket to move/mirror that to GitHub.
> > >
> > > —Rich
> > >
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
>

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Re: [REQUEST] Create apache/community GitHub Repo (WAS: Working groups working group)

[tison]

> Why not migrate the SVN repo to Git?
> Is there any need to keep the info in SVN?

I'm +1 in this direction. But it doesn't bother me if we keep a gate
to allow commiting via SVN and sync to GitHub. If Rich likes this way
and now he is the most active volunteer on this initiative.

Best,
tison.

sebb  于2024年2月12日周一 23:25写道：
>
> Why not migrate the SVN repo to Git?
> Is there any need to keep the info in SVN?
>
> On Mon, 12 Feb 2024 at 15:14, tison  wrote:
> >
> > According to the INFRA ticket [1], we'd better create the
> > apache/community GitHub repo first.
> >
> > I'm glad to execute the self-serve command but I'm yet to be a COMDEV
> > PMC member. I remember that in another thread, it's said that an
> > Apache Member can self-request to be a PMC member, so:
> >
> > * If any COMDEV PMC member can create the GitHub repo on self-serve
> > platform [2];
> > * If it's possible, I'd like to self-request to be a PMC member and do
> > the set up by myself.
> >
> > What do you think?
> >
> > [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-25482
> > [2] https://gitbox.apache.org/boxer/?action=newrepo
> >
> > Best,
> > tison.
> >
> > tison  于2024年2月8日周四 22:49写道：
> > >
> > > >> I just want to make these things more discoverable
> > > > please feel free to jump in and make an infra ticket to move/mirror 
> > > > that to GitHub
> > >
> > > If discoverable is an object, I suggest we use GitHub, at least as a
> > > mirror and accept issues and discussions. It's also easier to share
> > > over social media.
> > >
> > > I created the ticket that you can check [1].
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > tison.
> > >
> > > [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-25482
> > >
> > > Rich Bowen  于2024年2月8日周四 22:32写道：
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > On Feb 7, 2024, at 11:22 AM, Rich Bowen  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > * Where to we want to track WG status? I would propose that we create 
> > > > > GitHub.com/apache/community  for 
> > > > > stuff like this, to mirror GitHub.com/kubernetes/community 
> > > > > , at least in spirit, but 
> > > > > would like to discuss this with more people
> > > >
> > > > I’ve started putting stuff in 
> > > > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/community
> > > >
> > > > I like svn. If you don’t, please feel free to jump in and make an infra 
> > > > ticket to move/mirror that to GitHub.
> > > >
> > > > —Rich
> > > >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
> >
>
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Re: [WG: Sharpeners] Proposed - Sharpeners

[tison]

Thank you for starting this discussion, Rich.

I'm trying to get the points of this WG:

1. This WG is NOT a new office to "shepherd" TLPs, but to write down
how any community member can help in sharpening an ASF project.
2. For applying any suggestions, the request is delegated to the
Board, Trademarks, or other offices in the case; a member of this WG
can be an accountable assistant.

So, the main work items of this WG are shaping how any community
member can "supervise" an ASF project and how to collaborate with
offices to get TLPs to work well. Also, "ensure" that such guidances
are put into work.

If so, I'd recall my previous comment as an Incubator mentor that:

>> As a podling mentor, I know that many podlings join the ASF by influences 
>> from other TLPs. So if the TLP violates our policies, it increases the 
>> friction when we help the podlings to comply with our policies.

I already worked with trademarks@ to spot and fix issues on a few
TLPs' content. I'm glad to join this WG to share my experience
contributing to well-formed guidance.

Best,
tison.

Rich Bowen  于2024年2月12日周一 23:20写道：
>
>
> —

> Rich Bowen
> rbo...@rcbowen.com
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 11, 2024, at 6:04 PM, Phil Steitz  wrote:
> >
> > I am working on a PR to take a stab at tweaking the wording.  I am also
> > playing with some ideas around use cases - kinds of things sharpeners will
> > work on.  I think it's really a good idea to get some rough consensus on
> > what is in/out of scope before we start this.
>
> Indeed. Both what’s in and out of scope, and specific examples would be 
> really helpful. I am sure that I have a lot of preconceived notions of how 
> *I* would do this kind of work, but one of the major goals of working groups 
> is to document this so that people without those assumptions can get involved 
> without too much ramp-up time.
>
> Looking forward to your thoughts on this.
>

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Re: [REQUEST] Create apache/community GitHub Repo (WAS: Working groups working group)

[Rich Bowen]

> On Feb 12, 2024, at 10:46 AM, tison  wrote:
> 
>> Why not migrate the SVN repo to Git?
>> Is there any need to keep the info in SVN?
> 
> I'm +1 in this direction. But it doesn't bother me if we keep a gate
> to allow commiting via SVN and sync to GitHub. If Rich likes this way
> and now he is the most active volunteer on this initiative.

I sincerely hope it doesn’t remain that way.


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Re: [WG: Sharpeners] Proposed - Sharpeners

[Rich Bowen]

> On Feb 12, 2024, at 10:57 AM, tison  wrote:
> 
> Thank you for starting this discussion, Rich.
> 
> I'm trying to get the points of this WG:
> 
> 1. This WG is NOT a new office to "shepherd" TLPs, but to write down
> how any community member can help in sharpening an ASF project.
> 2. For applying any suggestions, the request is delegated to the
> Board, Trademarks, or other offices in the case; a member of this WG
> can be an accountable assistant.
> 


Well … yes and no. Ideally, a Sharpener will work with the PMC, offer them 
advice, and the PMC will act on that advice. One hopes that very little, if 
anything, is ever actually escalated to the Board or other officers.

One of the big complaints about the Board is that it only has a big hammer - 
that is to say, the Board doesn’t do nuance. Once something reaches the Board, 
chances are something big is going to happen. And we want to avoid that. We 
want to discover, and address problems, long before they become problems.

Anything that the Sharpener does, literally any member *could* do, but by 
creating a process/structure around this, I hope to

* Make it more acceptable to projects (ie, it’s not personal, this is here to 
help us improve)
* Make it easier for members to get involved in doing this (ie, give permission)
* Reduce the number of escalations to the Board (ie, solve problems before they 
occur)


> So, the main work items of this WG are shaping how any community
> member can "supervise" an ASF project and how to collaborate with
> offices to get TLPs to work well. Also, "ensure" that such guidances
> are put into work.


I am very intentionally trying to avoid words like “supervise.” We are coming 
alongside, and mentoring. We are not in a position of authority. The very first 
Value I stated was that the project has a right to decline.

> 
> If so, I'd recall my previous comment as an Incubator mentor that:
> 
>>> As a podling mentor, I know that many podlings join the ASF by influences 
>>> from other TLPs. So if the TLP violates our policies, it increases the 
>>> friction when we help the podlings to comply with our policies.
> 
> I already worked with trademarks@ to spot and fix issues on a few
> TLPs' content. I'm glad to join this WG to share my experience
> contributing to well-formed guidance.

Excellent. I look forward to collaborating with you on this.



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Re: [REQUEST] Create apache/community GitHub Repo (WAS: Working groups working group)

[Rich Bowen]

> On Feb 12, 2024, at 10:24 AM, sebb  wrote:
> 
> Why not migrate the SVN repo to Git?
> Is there any need to keep the info in SVN?

FWIW, I have no opinion on this, beyond my fiery and abiding antipathy for Git. 
If that’s what people want, go ahead, and I’ll adjust. This is a discussion. 
I’m not running the show here.


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Re: [WG: Social Media] Proposed - Social Media working group

[Rich Bowen]

> On Feb 11, 2024, at 6:24 AM, Slawomir Jaranowski  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Thanks for the idea ...
> 
> Some time ago we discuss on Maven slack channel who can publish message
> behalf of ASF like announcements about new releases
> 
> Clear rules for ASF wide and for project accounts will be appreciated.

This is why we’re going to have to work closely with MarkPub, since actually 
setting *policy* around this is firmly out of scope. But bringing these 
concerns to MarkPub may lead to the creation of policy (or at least guidelines) 
that we can then help projects implement.

—Rich

[jira] [Created] (COMDEV-542) More public tone for sharpeners

[Phil Steitz (Jira)]

Phil Steitz created COMDEV-542:
--

 Summary: More public tone for sharpeners
 Key: COMDEV-542
 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMDEV-542
 Project: Community Development
  Issue Type: Improvement
  Components: Comdev
Reporter: Phil Steitz


Some suggested changes to Sharpeners README



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[jira] [Updated] (COMDEV-542) More public tone for sharpeners

[Phil Steitz (Jira)]

 [ 
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMDEV-542?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel
 ]

Phil Steitz updated COMDEV-542:
---
Attachment: sharpeners.patch

> More public tone for sharpeners
> ---
>
> Key: COMDEV-542
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMDEV-542
> Project: Community Development
>  Issue Type: Improvement
>  Components: Comdev
>Reporter: Phil Steitz
>Priority: Minor
> Attachments: sharpeners.patch
>
>
> Some suggested changes to Sharpeners README



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Re: [WG: Sharpeners] Proposed - Sharpeners

[Phil Steitz]

I just added a patch to the readme and to add me to the members list.
Perfectly OK if the patch is rejected.  I can see both sides of this.  I
just want to be very careful not to encourage too much private discussion
and "community adjustment" happening without visibility or input of
community members beyond the PMC.

https://issues.apache.org/jira/projects/COMDEV/issues/COMDEV-542?filter=allopenissues

I will start a new md for use cases and include it in another patch.

Phil

On Mon, Feb 12, 2024 at 9:18 AM Rich Bowen  wrote:

>
> > On Feb 12, 2024, at 10:57 AM, tison  wrote:
> >
> > Thank you for starting this discussion, Rich.
> >
> > I'm trying to get the points of this WG:
> >
> > 1. This WG is NOT a new office to "shepherd" TLPs, but to write down
> > how any community member can help in sharpening an ASF project.
> > 2. For applying any suggestions, the request is delegated to the
> > Board, Trademarks, or other offices in the case; a member of this WG
> > can be an accountable assistant.
> >
>
>
> Well … yes and no. Ideally, a Sharpener will work with the PMC, offer them
> advice, and the PMC will act on that advice. One hopes that very little, if
> anything, is ever actually escalated to the Board or other officers.
>
> One of the big complaints about the Board is that it only has a big hammer
> - that is to say, the Board doesn’t do nuance. Once something reaches the
> Board, chances are something big is going to happen. And we want to avoid
> that. We want to discover, and address problems, long before they become
> problems.
>
> Anything that the Sharpener does, literally any member *could* do, but by
> creating a process/structure around this, I hope to
>
> * Make it more acceptable to projects (ie, it’s not personal, this is here
> to help us improve)
> * Make it easier for members to get involved in doing this (ie, give
> permission)
> * Reduce the number of escalations to the Board (ie, solve problems before
> they occur)
>
>
> > So, the main work items of this WG are shaping how any community
> > member can "supervise" an ASF project and how to collaborate with
> > offices to get TLPs to work well. Also, "ensure" that such guidances
> > are put into work.
>
>
> I am very intentionally trying to avoid words like “supervise.” We are
> coming alongside, and mentoring. We are not in a position of authority. The
> very first Value I stated was that the project has a right to decline.
>
> >
> > If so, I'd recall my previous comment as an Incubator mentor that:
> >
> >>> As a podling mentor, I know that many podlings join the ASF by
> influences from other TLPs. So if the TLP violates our policies, it
> increases the friction when we help the podlings to comply with our
> policies.
> >
> > I already worked with trademarks@ to spot and fix issues on a few
> > TLPs' content. I'm glad to join this WG to share my experience
> > contributing to well-formed guidance.
>
> Excellent. I look forward to collaborating with you on this.
>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
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>
>

[jira] [Created] (COMDEV-543) Sharpeniers use cases

[Phil Steitz (Jira)]

Phil Steitz created COMDEV-543:
--

 Summary: Sharpeniers use cases
 Key: COMDEV-543
 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMDEV-543
 Project: Community Development
  Issue Type: Improvement
  Components: Comdev
Reporter: Phil Steitz


Brain dump of ideas for sharpeners use cases



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[jira] [Updated] (COMDEV-543) Sharpeniers use cases

[Phil Steitz (Jira)]

 [ 
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMDEV-543?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel
 ]

Phil Steitz updated COMDEV-543:
---
Priority: Minor  (was: Major)

> Sharpeniers use cases
> -
>
> Key: COMDEV-543
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMDEV-543
> Project: Community Development
>  Issue Type: Improvement
>  Components: Comdev
>Reporter: Phil Steitz
>Priority: Minor
>
> Brain dump of ideas for sharpeners use cases



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[jira] [Updated] (COMDEV-543) Sharpeners use cases

[Phil Steitz (Jira)]

 [ 
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMDEV-543?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel
 ]

Phil Steitz updated COMDEV-543:
---
Summary: Sharpeners use cases  (was: Sharpeniers use cases)

> Sharpeners use cases
> 
>
> Key: COMDEV-543
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMDEV-543
> Project: Community Development
>  Issue Type: Improvement
>  Components: Comdev
>Reporter: Phil Steitz
>Priority: Minor
> Attachments: use-cases.md
>
>
> Brain dump of ideas for sharpeners use cases



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[jira] [Updated] (COMDEV-543) Sharpeniers use cases

[Phil Steitz (Jira)]

 [ 
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMDEV-543?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel
 ]

Phil Steitz updated COMDEV-543:
---
Attachment: use-cases.md

> Sharpeniers use cases
> -
>
> Key: COMDEV-543
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMDEV-543
> Project: Community Development
>  Issue Type: Improvement
>  Components: Comdev
>Reporter: Phil Steitz
>Priority: Minor
> Attachments: use-cases.md
>
>
> Brain dump of ideas for sharpeners use cases



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Re: [WG: Sharpeners] Proposed - Sharpeners

[Phil Steitz]

OK, I added a brain dump on the use cases.  This is in the spirit of "good
ideas, bad code" ;)

Phil

On Mon, Feb 12, 2024 at 2:06 PM Phil Steitz  wrote:

> I just added a patch to the readme and to add me to the members list.
> Perfectly OK if the patch is rejected.  I can see both sides of this.  I
> just want to be very careful not to encourage too much private discussion
> and "community adjustment" happening without visibility or input of
> community members beyond the PMC.
>
>
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/projects/COMDEV/issues/COMDEV-542?filter=allopenissues
>
> I will start a new md for use cases and include it in another patch.
>
> Phil
>
> On Mon, Feb 12, 2024 at 9:18 AM Rich Bowen  wrote:
>
>>
>> > On Feb 12, 2024, at 10:57 AM, tison  wrote:
>> >
>> > Thank you for starting this discussion, Rich.
>> >
>> > I'm trying to get the points of this WG:
>> >
>> > 1. This WG is NOT a new office to "shepherd" TLPs, but to write down
>> > how any community member can help in sharpening an ASF project.
>> > 2. For applying any suggestions, the request is delegated to the
>> > Board, Trademarks, or other offices in the case; a member of this WG
>> > can be an accountable assistant.
>> >
>>
>>
>> Well … yes and no. Ideally, a Sharpener will work with the PMC, offer
>> them advice, and the PMC will act on that advice. One hopes that very
>> little, if anything, is ever actually escalated to the Board or other
>> officers.
>>
>> One of the big complaints about the Board is that it only has a big
>> hammer - that is to say, the Board doesn’t do nuance. Once something
>> reaches the Board, chances are something big is going to happen. And we
>> want to avoid that. We want to discover, and address problems, long before
>> they become problems.
>>
>> Anything that the Sharpener does, literally any member *could* do, but by
>> creating a process/structure around this, I hope to
>>
>> * Make it more acceptable to projects (ie, it’s not personal, this is
>> here to help us improve)
>> * Make it easier for members to get involved in doing this (ie, give
>> permission)
>> * Reduce the number of escalations to the Board (ie, solve problems
>> before they occur)
>>
>>
>> > So, the main work items of this WG are shaping how any community
>> > member can "supervise" an ASF project and how to collaborate with
>> > offices to get TLPs to work well. Also, "ensure" that such guidances
>> > are put into work.
>>
>>
>> I am very intentionally trying to avoid words like “supervise.” We are
>> coming alongside, and mentoring. We are not in a position of authority. The
>> very first Value I stated was that the project has a right to decline.
>>
>> >
>> > If so, I'd recall my previous comment as an Incubator mentor that:
>> >
>> >>> As a podling mentor, I know that many podlings join the ASF by
>> influences from other TLPs. So if the TLP violates our policies, it
>> increases the friction when we help the podlings to comply with our
>> policies.
>> >
>> > I already worked with trademarks@ to spot and fix issues on a few
>> > TLPs' content. I'm glad to join this WG to share my experience
>> > contributing to well-formed guidance.
>>
>> Excellent. I look forward to collaborating with you on this.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
>>
>>

Re: [WG: Sharpeners] Proposed - Sharpeners

[Phil Steitz]

Sorry, last message got away from me.  The point of the use cases is to get
a rough consensus of the kinds of things that a Sharpener will work on.
Ideally, these get a) fixed / better organized and b) fleshed out with
useful links, suggestions and scope of engagement statements.

So for example, if "barriers to contribution" survives, we get into what is
/ is not OK for a sharpener to suggest and when it is actually a problem.
More concretely, consider the case where "some people" think that project
Foo has an impossibly high bar for commit.  How do you work out what that
means?  How is it impacting the community?  Both "not a problem" and "yes,
this is a problem" examples could be added, as well as some info on what
the Sharpener is allowed to question / how deeply they should engage in
tweaking internal PMC processes.

Phil

On Mon, Feb 12, 2024 at 3:08 PM Phil Steitz  wrote:

> OK, I added a brain dump on the use cases.  This is in the spirit of "good
> ideas, bad code" ;)
>
> Phil
>
> On Mon, Feb 12, 2024 at 2:06 PM Phil Steitz  wrote:
>
>> I just added a patch to the readme and to add me to the members list.
>> Perfectly OK if the patch is rejected.  I can see both sides of this.  I
>> just want to be very careful not to encourage too much private discussion
>> and "community adjustment" happening without visibility or input of
>> community members beyond the PMC.
>>
>>
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/projects/COMDEV/issues/COMDEV-542?filter=allopenissues
>>
>> I will start a new md for use cases and include it in another patch.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2024 at 9:18 AM Rich Bowen  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> > On Feb 12, 2024, at 10:57 AM, tison  wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Thank you for starting this discussion, Rich.
>>> >
>>> > I'm trying to get the points of this WG:
>>> >
>>> > 1. This WG is NOT a new office to "shepherd" TLPs, but to write down
>>> > how any community member can help in sharpening an ASF project.
>>> > 2. For applying any suggestions, the request is delegated to the
>>> > Board, Trademarks, or other offices in the case; a member of this WG
>>> > can be an accountable assistant.
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> Well … yes and no. Ideally, a Sharpener will work with the PMC, offer
>>> them advice, and the PMC will act on that advice. One hopes that very
>>> little, if anything, is ever actually escalated to the Board or other
>>> officers.
>>>
>>> One of the big complaints about the Board is that it only has a big
>>> hammer - that is to say, the Board doesn’t do nuance. Once something
>>> reaches the Board, chances are something big is going to happen. And we
>>> want to avoid that. We want to discover, and address problems, long before
>>> they become problems.
>>>
>>> Anything that the Sharpener does, literally any member *could* do, but
>>> by creating a process/structure around this, I hope to
>>>
>>> * Make it more acceptable to projects (ie, it’s not personal, this is
>>> here to help us improve)
>>> * Make it easier for members to get involved in doing this (ie, give
>>> permission)
>>> * Reduce the number of escalations to the Board (ie, solve problems
>>> before they occur)
>>>
>>>
>>> > So, the main work items of this WG are shaping how any community
>>> > member can "supervise" an ASF project and how to collaborate with
>>> > offices to get TLPs to work well. Also, "ensure" that such guidances
>>> > are put into work.
>>>
>>>
>>> I am very intentionally trying to avoid words like “supervise.” We are
>>> coming alongside, and mentoring. We are not in a position of authority. The
>>> very first Value I stated was that the project has a right to decline.
>>>
>>> >
>>> > If so, I'd recall my previous comment as an Incubator mentor that:
>>> >
>>> >>> As a podling mentor, I know that many podlings join the ASF by
>>> influences from other TLPs. So if the TLP violates our policies, it
>>> increases the friction when we help the podlings to comply with our
>>> policies.
>>> >
>>> > I already worked with trademarks@ to spot and fix issues on a few
>>> > TLPs' content. I'm glad to join this WG to share my experience
>>> > contributing to well-formed guidance.
>>>
>>> Excellent. I look forward to collaborating with you on this.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
>>>
>>>