[PR] Additional commentary, as per Justin's comments on https://github.com… (comdev-site)

[via GitHub]

rbowen opened a new pull request, #155:
URL: https://github.com/apache/comdev-site/pull/155

   Additional commenary, as per Justins comments on the original draft. Thanks, 
Justin.
   
   
https://github.com/apache/comdev-site/pull/154](https://github.com/apache/comdev-site/pull/154


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Re: [PR] Additional commentary, as per Justin's comments on https://github.com… (comdev-site)

[via GitHub]

rbowen merged PR #155:
URL: https://github.com/apache/comdev-site/pull/155


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[WG: Social] Proposed - Social working group

[Rich Bowen]

I’ve added an initial description here: 
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/community/wg-social/README.md

And copied below for convenience.

Part of building community is facilitating in-person (or maybe virtual?) 
gatherings where contributors can share life as humans. Our communities work a 
lot better when we view one another as humans, and not merely words in email 
messages and pull requests. Over the years, we have become increasingly 
fragmented, for lots of very logical reasons. Let’s see what we can do to chip 
away at that a little bit, and reclaim some of our cross-project bonds.


# Social Workgroup (Proposed)

To facilitate social gatherings wherever Apache contributors may be
present.

## Who

Any Apache contributor may be a wg-social member. It's helpful if you
either travel to in-person events, or live in a place where Apache
contributors may gather, such as a large city, or a popular conference
destination.

## What

Arrange social gathering of Apache contributors. The exact parameters of
this are left up to the members of this WG, but intial suggestions might
be:

* Simply notifying attendees that other Apache contributors might be in
  the same location at the same time.
* Arranging a specific time/place for a gathering, whether for a meal,
  drinks, or informal gathering.
* Working with a sponsor to facilitate an actual sponsored event, and
  inviting Apache contributors to that event.
* Resurrect the pa...@apache.org mailing list to coordinate, and
  promote, these events.

## Why

Building strong communities is easier in person. Facilitating informal
non-technical gatherings of Apache contributors, especially across
projects, builds strong bonds within the Foundation, and contributes to
important conversations that affect all of us.

## Values

* You will never spam the membership, or the projects, with excessive
  communication about gatherings. There's probably a lot of leeway to
  interpret this, but everyone knows spam when they see it.
* This is not a mechanism for companies to circumvent our trademark
  policies. Work with trademarks@ to ensure that you're not stepping on
  toes here.
* This is an unfunded, volunteer effort. You don't have access to ComDev
  budget for this, except with regard to foundation swag (stickers, for
  example) that ComDev chooses to provide.


— 
Rich Bowen
rbo...@rcbowen.com

[WG: Social Media] Proposed - Social Media working group

[Rich Bowen]

This one’s pretty simple. We need folks who will figure out how to maintain our 
social media presence, and that of our projects, more effectively. We are 
currently not doing awesome at this - at best, we’re inconsistent. At our 
worst, we are sending out messaging that is not aligned with the Foundation’s 
messaging, and that can be harmful, longer term.

I’ve included the proposed charter below, and at 
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/community/wg-social-media/README.md 


I don’t think this one is controversial, but I think that putting some more 
structure around this, and having a group that sets direction, process, 
membership criteria, and so on, would greatly improve our outreach.

Note that this group MUST defer to MarkPub on all things, so we can’t just 
blaze ahead until they have had their input here.



# Social Media Working Group (Proposed)

Use social media to promote Apache communities

## What

Use the @apachecommunity Twitter account, Facebook, LinkedIn, and other
social media outlets to promote Apache communities.

Work with projects to better facilitate their own social media outlets,
and to share Foundation-wide messaging, where appropriate.

Work with MarkPub to ensure that all of the above is done correctly, and
on-message with the rest of the community.

## Who

The WG shall create membership criteria that ensure that you're enabling
people who can responsibly, consistently, positively and coherently be
spokespeople for the ASF. Possibly work with MarkPub to establish some
kind of guidelines or certification?


— 
Rich Bowen
rbo...@rcbowen.com

[WG: Sharpeners] Proposed - Sharpeners

[Rich Bowen]

Ok, this one probably requires a LOT of discussion, but it’s something I’ve 
been thinking about for more than a year, so if some of this seems like I’ve 
already wordsmithed it, that’s why.

Projects go through the Incubator, learn how to Apache, and then they move on. 
The membership changes. The mission changes. The world changes around them. And 
the lessons of the Incubator are often forgotten, or deemed unimportant to the 
changed circumstances.

This Working Group provides a mechanism for ASF Members to assist the board in 
advising projects. (See the FAQ, “Why a member?” before objecting to this. I am 
very firm on this point, and I believe that the board will be too, if asked.

I want to STRENUOUSLY encourage you to read the entire proposal before 
responding, because I have foreseen a number of objections to this, most of 
which go under the heading of “who are YOU to tell US what to do?!” I am very 
cognizant of this. ComDev is a PEER to other projects, not in a position of 
authority. That said, every member is responsible, to a certain degree, for the 
direction the entire Foundation takes.

I believe that this effort, if successful, could be hugely influential in the 
trajectory of the ASF in the coming years. I believe that this is, at heart, 
the primary mission of ComDev. I feel very strongly about the importance of 
this working group. I will be glad to hold forth at greater length over beer 
and/or scotch, at the next event facilitated by wg-social. ;-)

Anyways, please read 
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/community/wg-sharpeners/README.md and 
then think a little bit and then let me know what you think.

Proposal also included below for convenience.



# Sharpeners Work Group (Proposed)

To provide "Sharpeners" - volunteers who come alongside a PMC to offer
an outsider's perspective on the project, and advice to build their
community.

## Who

A Sharpener must be an ASF member. They are preferably a member who has
been around a while, and has some reason to be trusted as a mentor. You
must not already be a member of the PMC. You must not have any
adversarial reason to take on the role - a bone to pick, a corporate
entanglement, or whatever.

## What

A Sharpener will subscribe to the project's PMC list
(priv...@project.apache.org) and mostly listen. They will comment
constructively when they see something that may be improved. They will
report concerns back to the board, via  sections in the ComDev
report, under a new "Workgroups" section that will be created for this
purpose.

## Values

Interactions by Sharpeners are at the pleasure of the PMC. You do not
have any authority over the PMC.

### Declinable

The PMC must be allowed to say "no thank you" without providing any
reason, and you must respect that decision, and not offer again unless
invited.

### Transparent

When you subscribe to the private@ list, you MUST introduce yourself and
state your purpose, complete with a link to THIS document. You MUST tell
the PMC when you intend to report something back to either ComDev or the
Board.

We will also track, here, in this repository, which Sharpener is
observing which project.

### Non-adversarial

All feedback must be a polite, positive, actionable suggestion, not
merely a criticism or a "you're doing it wrong." You must suggest what
the PMC should do, providing links to policy or best practice documents
where applicable. Simply criticising is not welcome.

If you cannot operate in this fashion, then this role isn't for you.

### Confidential

(No, this isn't a contradiction to Transparent. Different audiences.)

All communications on private@ mailing lists are confidential. Sharing
information you learned on those lists to anyone outside of the
membership of the ASF is a severe breach of trust.

Do not ever cross-post between private lists with disjoint audiences. In
general, this means don't forward content from a private list to anyone
who is not an ASF member.

All reports on Sharpener activity must be in  sections, unless
you have coordinated with the PMC to include it in *their* report.

### Collegial

You are a colleague - a peer. You are not in a position of authority.
You cannot tell the PMC what to do. You are only an observer, and, at
the indulgence of the PMC, advisor. Do not abuse this relationship.

## FAQ

### Why "Sharpener"

Because I wanted an "sh" word, to go along with Shepherds and Shadows,
which I'll be writing about elsewhere.

"As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another."

### Why a member?

A Sharpener must be an ASF member. This is because doing this job
requires access to a projects private@ PMC mailing list. All ASF members
already have this access.

Furthermore, an ASF member has already earned trust in the context of
the ASF. Trust is transitive - that is, you may not know all members
personally, but each member was nominated and elected by people that
you, in turn, nominated and elected.





— 
Rich Bowen
rbo...@rcbowen.com

Re: [WG: Sharpeners] Proposed - Sharpeners

[Daniel Gruno]

On 2/9/24 14:54, Rich Bowen wrote:

Ok, this one probably requires a LOT of discussion, but it’s something I’ve 
been thinking about for more than a year, so if some of this seems like I’ve 
already wordsmithed it, that’s why.

Projects go through the Incubator, learn how to Apache, and then they move on. 
The membership changes. The mission changes. The world changes around them. And 
the lessons of the Incubator are often forgotten, or deemed unimportant to the 
changed circumstances.

This Working Group provides a mechanism for ASF Members to assist the board in 
advising projects. (See the FAQ, “Why a member?” before objecting to this. I am 
very firm on this point, and I believe that the board will be too, if asked.

I want to STRENUOUSLY encourage you to read the entire proposal before 
responding, because I have foreseen a number of objections to this, most of 
which go under the heading of “who are YOU to tell US what to do?!” I am very 
cognizant of this. ComDev is a PEER to other projects, not in a position of 
authority. That said, every member is responsible, to a certain degree, for the 
direction the entire Foundation takes.

I believe that this effort, if successful, could be hugely influential in the 
trajectory of the ASF in the coming years. I believe that this is, at heart, 
the primary mission of ComDev. I feel very strongly about the importance of 
this working group. I will be glad to hold forth at greater length over beer 
and/or scotch, at the next event facilitated by wg-social. ;-)

Anyways, please read 
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/community/wg-sharpeners/README.md and 
then think a little bit and then let me know what you think.

Proposal also included below for convenience.


I like this proposal a lot, and would be happy to sharpen some pencil 
mahogany cases, if allowed (unless this pun was so bad you have to 
decline my offer).


I do have one question, which is where this ... 
report bit would go, would that be entered into the comdev board report?






# Sharpeners Work Group (Proposed)

To provide "Sharpeners" - volunteers who come alongside a PMC to offer
an outsider's perspective on the project, and advice to build their
community.

## Who

A Sharpener must be an ASF member. They are preferably a member who has
been around a while, and has some reason to be trusted as a mentor. You
must not already be a member of the PMC. You must not have any
adversarial reason to take on the role - a bone to pick, a corporate
entanglement, or whatever.

## What

A Sharpener will subscribe to the project's PMC list
(priv...@project.apache.org) and mostly listen. They will comment
constructively when they see something that may be improved. They will
report concerns back to the board, via  sections in the ComDev
report, under a new "Workgroups" section that will be created for this
purpose.

## Values

Interactions by Sharpeners are at the pleasure of the PMC. You do not
have any authority over the PMC.

### Declinable

The PMC must be allowed to say "no thank you" without providing any
reason, and you must respect that decision, and not offer again unless
invited.

### Transparent

When you subscribe to the private@ list, you MUST introduce yourself and
state your purpose, complete with a link to THIS document. You MUST tell
the PMC when you intend to report something back to either ComDev or the
Board.

We will also track, here, in this repository, which Sharpener is
observing which project.

### Non-adversarial

All feedback must be a polite, positive, actionable suggestion, not
merely a criticism or a "you're doing it wrong." You must suggest what
the PMC should do, providing links to policy or best practice documents
where applicable. Simply criticising is not welcome.

If you cannot operate in this fashion, then this role isn't for you.

### Confidential

(No, this isn't a contradiction to Transparent. Different audiences.)

All communications on private@ mailing lists are confidential. Sharing
information you learned on those lists to anyone outside of the
membership of the ASF is a severe breach of trust.

Do not ever cross-post between private lists with disjoint audiences. In
general, this means don't forward content from a private list to anyone
who is not an ASF member.

All reports on Sharpener activity must be in  sections, unless
you have coordinated with the PMC to include it in *their* report.

### Collegial

You are a colleague - a peer. You are not in a position of authority.
You cannot tell the PMC what to do. You are only an observer, and, at
the indulgence of the PMC, advisor. Do not abuse this relationship.

## FAQ

### Why "Sharpener"

Because I wanted an "sh" word, to go along with Shepherds and Shadows,
which I'll be writing about elsewhere.

"As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another."

### Why a member?

A Sharpener must be an ASF member. This is because doing this job
requires access to a projects private@ PMC mailing list. All ASF m

Re: [WG: Social Media] Proposed - Social Media working group

[sblack...@apache.org]

I would like to contribute here. I’ve been learning a great deal about activity 
pub (fediverse) recently, and also have years of experience integrating with 
most of the platforms with the largest audiences.

Steve
On Feb 9, 2024 at 7:55 AM -0600, Rich Bowen , wrote:
> This one’s pretty simple. We need folks who will figure out how to maintain 
> our social media presence, and that of our projects, more effectively. We are 
> currently not doing awesome at this - at best, we’re inconsistent. At our 
> worst, we are sending out messaging that is not aligned with the Foundation’s 
> messaging, and that can be harmful, longer term.
>
> I’ve included the proposed charter below, and at 
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/community/wg-social-media/README.md 
> 
>
> I don’t think this one is controversial, but I think that putting some more 
> structure around this, and having a group that sets direction, process, 
> membership criteria, and so on, would greatly improve our outreach.
>
> Note that this group MUST defer to MarkPub on all things, so we can’t just 
> blaze ahead until they have had their input here.
>
>
>
> # Social Media Working Group (Proposed)
>
> Use social media to promote Apache communities
>
> ## What
>
> Use the @apachecommunity Twitter account, Facebook, LinkedIn, and other
> social media outlets to promote Apache communities.
>
> Work with projects to better facilitate their own social media outlets,
> and to share Foundation-wide messaging, where appropriate.
>
> Work with MarkPub to ensure that all of the above is done correctly, and
> on-message with the rest of the community.
>
> ## Who
>
> The WG shall create membership criteria that ensure that you're enabling
> people who can responsibly, consistently, positively and coherently be
> spokespeople for the ASF. Possibly work with MarkPub to establish some
> kind of guidelines or certification?
>
>
> —
> Rich Bowen
> rbo...@rcbowen.com
>
>
>
>

Re: [WG: Sharpeners] Proposed - Sharpeners

[Rich Bowen]

> On Feb 9, 2024, at 10:18 AM, Daniel Gruno  wrote:
> 
> I like this proposal a lot, and would be happy to sharpen some pencil 
> mahogany cases, if allowed (unless this pun was so bad you have to decline my 
> offer).
> 
> I do have one question, which is where this ... report bit 
> would go, would that be entered into the comdev board report?


I think that’s a detail for the WG to work out, in conjunction with the ComDev 
PMC and Chair, but my vision is that if/when any of these WGs start producing 
actual work, we would add a WG section to the ComDev report, and report on that 
work there. It’s an interesting question, though, because it might imply that 
the WG lead must be a ComDev PMC member, so that they *can* make these 
 comments. Or perhaps they just communicate with the PMC Chair 
directly? I’m not sure. We cannot violate PMC confidentially, whatever we do.

*Ideally*, the comments/advice of an effective sharpener would also influence 
things showing up in the individual PMC’s report, too, but there will be cases 
where the Sharpener’s comments are about red flags in the project, and they 
will be asking the board to look into it, escalate, or whatever, since the 
Sharpener themself has no authority to do anything but advise.

Re: [WG: Social] Proposed - Social working group

[MJ Foulks]

+1

A volunteer organization is only as strong as its volunteers' perceptions
of the organization, and strong interpersonal relationships help to
facilitate a better perception.  There are obvious ways to keep perception
positive (limit negative and toxic interactions; provide positive and
constructive feedback for work; enforce a code of conduct), but building
strong interpersonal relationships goes a long way.  Morale will be higher,
bonds will be formed, and as a bonus, volunteers will be more likely to
stay active and participate in important ASF conversations.

An informal social group is fairly easy to form, since there would be no
skill requirements or experience needed to participate.  We could simply
send out invitations to join this group.  We could then appoint a
leader/administrator that can organize social gatherings (both in-person
and via zoom or other platform) and help to ensure that members of this
group feel welcome and are having a positive experience.

I know that one criticism of this idea will be the cost of physical
gatherings.  Consider this:  the vast majority of successful volunteer
organizations recognize the importance of the volunteer's experience, as
well as their perception of the community.  As mentioned by Paris Pittman
at FOSDEM, 80% of projects fail due to contributor turnover.  This issue is
fixed by community engagement and management. If even one informal,
physical social gathering a year is helpful to the volunteers' perception
and morale, then it's absolutely worth the cost.  Volunteers will be more
active, and more work will subsequently be done at a faster rate.  Bonus
points for the ASF being viewed in a more positive light by participating
volunteers.  Remember, it's community over code.

There should also be working groups associated with specific skill sets or
special interests, such as coders, community builders, writers,
photographers, and other such skill-related groups.  Non-code contributor
groups are essential, as there's more to the ASF than just the written
code.  Getting these groups off the ground may feel overwhelming, but it's
easier if you take it one step at a time.  Start by sending out a survey to
all active volunteers, asking them what they perceive their skill sets to
be, as well as any talents they have outside of their roles as volunteers.
Once you receive the data from these surveys, use it to determine which
working groups to form.  Send out invitations to the volunteers that will
benefit/fit with the groups.  Then, for each separate group, appoint an
active member to administrate and lead the group, preferably an active
volunteer/member that can provide a positive and welcoming atmosphere.

Once the groups are formed, it will be so much easier to find volunteers
with specific skills sets.  For example, the website needs work, right?
You can't just say "fix the website" and expect it to get done.  I can
write anything you need for a website, but I can't generate the code needed
to make it work, nor can I provide graphics or photos.  If these working
groups exist, it'll be so much easier to create a "fix the website"
project, appoint a writer, coder, and graphic designer for the project.
You don't have to wait for someone to say "hey, I can do that." You can
simply appeal to the WG, split the work based on skill sets, and provide
direction for the project.  The vast majority of volunteers will thrive so
much more with direction, and volunteers will feel more passionate about
the project. Their skills are being recognized, and they're being given
projects to exercise and show off those skills.

I'd be happy to help form and facilitate this social working group, as well
as other working groups.  My skill sets are mostly in writing, editing,
teaching, planning and organizing, and maintaining positive morale within a
community.  With the help of a long-term member, I can create the surveys I
mentioned, sift through the data, and help to create the working groups.

--MJ Foulks



On Fri, Feb 9, 2024 at 8:54 AM Rich Bowen  wrote:

> I’ve added an initial description here:
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/community/wg-social/README.md
>
> And copied below for convenience.
>
> Part of building community is facilitating in-person (or maybe virtual?)
> gatherings where contributors can share life as humans. Our communities
> work a lot better when we view one another as humans, and not merely words
> in email messages and pull requests. Over the years, we have become
> increasingly fragmented, for lots of very logical reasons. Let’s see what
> we can do to chip away at that a little bit, and reclaim some of our
> cross-project bonds.
>
>
> # Social Workgroup (Proposed)
>
> To facilitate social gatherings wherever Apache contributors may be
> present.
>
> ## Who
>
> Any Apache contributor may be a wg-social member. It's helpful if you
> either travel to in-person events, or live in a place where Apache
> contributors may gather, such as a la

Re: [WG: Sharpeners] Proposed - Sharpeners

[MJ Foulks]

This is another great idea.

You mentioned objections along the lines of "who are you to tell me what to
do?"  Most volunteers do better with some direction, rather than being told
"just submit a PR"  or "just contribute."  Most volunteers, especially new
volunteers such as myself, find that lack of direction frustrating.  Lack
of direction will lead to less active volunteers doing less work.

 Sharpeners can help provide direction without it having to come from a
position of authority.  I do agree that the Sharpener (even if a leader of
the WG) should not have any higher authority than others. However, their
position as a Sharpener should be recognized and respected, and their
advice taken with their elevated role in mind.  They are peers, but they
are peers with a more broad view and more experience in their skill set.
Advice can be taken or left, but a Sharpener's advice should, ideally, be
given more thought and consideration.

--MJ Foulks

On Fri, Feb 9, 2024 at 10:33 AM Rich Bowen  wrote:

>
> > On Feb 9, 2024, at 10:18 AM, Daniel Gruno  wrote:
> >
> > I like this proposal a lot, and would be happy to sharpen some pencil
> mahogany cases, if allowed (unless this pun was so bad you have to decline
> my offer).
> >
> > I do have one question, which is where this ...
> report bit would go, would that be entered into the comdev board report?
>
>
> I think that’s a detail for the WG to work out, in conjunction with the
> ComDev PMC and Chair, but my vision is that if/when any of these WGs start
> producing actual work, we would add a WG section to the ComDev report, and
> report on that work there. It’s an interesting question, though, because it
> might imply that the WG lead must be a ComDev PMC member, so that they
> *can* make these  comments. Or perhaps they just communicate with
> the PMC Chair directly? I’m not sure. We cannot violate PMC confidentially,
> whatever we do.
>
> *Ideally*, the comments/advice of an effective sharpener would also
> influence things showing up in the individual PMC’s report, too, but there
> will be cases where the Sharpener’s comments are about red flags in the
> project, and they will be asking the board to look into it, escalate, or
> whatever, since the Sharpener themself has no authority to do anything but
> advise.
>
>

AW: [WG: Sharpeners] Proposed - Sharpeners

[Christofer Dutz]

Hi Rich,

I love every line of it … the only thing I would possibly “fine tune” in the 
text, would be to be a bit more explicit:
“You must not already be a member of the PMC.” -> “You must not already be a 
member of the PMC that you wish to join as Sharpener.” Cause I was a bit 
confused which of the many PMCs involved you were talking about.

And: As we voted on that every Member can request to join the ComDev PMC, maybe 
simply add to the proposal, that if you want to be a Sharpener, that you simply 
ask to join the ComDev PMC.

Other than that … count me in.

Chris

Von: MJ Foulks 
Datum: Freitag, 9. Februar 2024 um 17:02
An: dev@community.apache.org 
Betreff: Re: [WG: Sharpeners] Proposed - Sharpeners
This is another great idea.

You mentioned objections along the lines of "who are you to tell me what to
do?"  Most volunteers do better with some direction, rather than being told
"just submit a PR"  or "just contribute."  Most volunteers, especially new
volunteers such as myself, find that lack of direction frustrating.  Lack
of direction will lead to less active volunteers doing less work.

 Sharpeners can help provide direction without it having to come from a
position of authority.  I do agree that the Sharpener (even if a leader of
the WG) should not have any higher authority than others. However, their
position as a Sharpener should be recognized and respected, and their
advice taken with their elevated role in mind.  They are peers, but they
are peers with a more broad view and more experience in their skill set.
Advice can be taken or left, but a Sharpener's advice should, ideally, be
given more thought and consideration.

--MJ Foulks

On Fri, Feb 9, 2024 at 10:33 AM Rich Bowen  wrote:

>
> > On Feb 9, 2024, at 10:18 AM, Daniel Gruno  wrote:
> >
> > I like this proposal a lot, and would be happy to sharpen some pencil
> mahogany cases, if allowed (unless this pun was so bad you have to decline
> my offer).
> >
> > I do have one question, which is where this ...
> report bit would go, would that be entered into the comdev board report?
>
>
> I think that’s a detail for the WG to work out, in conjunction with the
> ComDev PMC and Chair, but my vision is that if/when any of these WGs start
> producing actual work, we would add a WG section to the ComDev report, and
> report on that work there. It’s an interesting question, though, because it
> might imply that the WG lead must be a ComDev PMC member, so that they
> *can* make these  comments. Or perhaps they just communicate with
> the PMC Chair directly? I’m not sure. We cannot violate PMC confidentially,
> whatever we do.
>
> *Ideally*, the comments/advice of an effective sharpener would also
> influence things showing up in the individual PMC’s report, too, but there
> will be cases where the Sharpener’s comments are about red flags in the
> project, and they will be asking the board to look into it, escalate, or
> whatever, since the Sharpener themself has no authority to do anything but
> advise.
>
>

Re: [WG: Sharpeners] Proposed - Sharpeners

[Rich Bowen]

> On Feb 9, 2024, at 11:33 AM, Christofer Dutz  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Rich,
> 
> I love every line of it … the only thing I would possibly “fine tune” in the 
> text, would be to be a bit more explicit:
> “You must not already be a member of the PMC.” -> “You must not already be a 
> member of the PMC that you wish to join as Sharpener.” Cause I was a bit 
> confused which of the many PMCs involved you were talking about.

Thanks. I’ve updated the doc accordingly.


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[PR] Mention that travel costs can be covered for f2f meetings (comdev-site)

[via GitHub]

bdelacretaz opened a new pull request, #156:
URL: https://github.com/apache/comdev-site/pull/156

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Re: [PR] Mention that travel costs can be covered for f2f meetings (comdev-site)

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rbowen merged PR #156:
URL: https://github.com/apache/comdev-site/pull/156


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[PR] Typos fixed, some grammar changes, new title proposed (comdev-site)

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bproffitt opened a new pull request, #157:
URL: https://github.com/apache/comdev-site/pull/157

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Re: [PR] Typos fixed, some grammar changes, new title proposed (comdev-site)

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rbowen merged PR #157:
URL: https://github.com/apache/comdev-site/pull/157


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Re: [WG: Sharpeners] Proposed - Sharpeners

[Phil Steitz]

Thanks, Rich.  I think we have been headed in this direction for some time
now and something like this is needed.  Many thanks for coming up with a
concrete proposal.

I have one suggestion for improvement, which is in part a problem
statement.  Instead of just subscribing to the private@ list, I would
suggest that Sharpeners also subscribe to and even engage primarily on the
dev@ list.  The problem statement part of this is that having influence
"behind the curtain" of privacy runs counter to transparency, especially if
that influence is on how the project is run.  It's been a while since I
have been on the board, but I remember often pointing to discussions on
private lists that should be public. I don't think its a good idea to have
general discussion about how things are done in a project on private lists
and having the Sharpeners engage exclusively there might encourage more of
that.  I think its a best practice to post draft board reports to dev lists
and relay board feedback there.  I know a lot of projects do that.  That
way, the community understands the thought process and can lead whatever
change is needed, rather than being surprised by it.   When I look back on
successful "sharpenings" in the past, the real work generally happened on
the project lists, with only very sensitive or individual people-related
things being worked out on private lists.

It might be a good idea to look at some historical examples and tease out a
little more what exactly "sharpening" is going to be.  If it is primarily
(re-)education or community transformation, that really does need to be
public and community-based.  If its more admin / legal / policy compliance,
that fits with the private engagement of the PMC model.

Phil






On Fri, Feb 9, 2024 at 6:55 AM Rich Bowen  wrote:

> Ok, this one probably requires a LOT of discussion, but it’s something
> I’ve been thinking about for more than a year, so if some of this seems
> like I’ve already wordsmithed it, that’s why.
>
> Projects go through the Incubator, learn how to Apache, and then they move
> on. The membership changes. The mission changes. The world changes around
> them. And the lessons of the Incubator are often forgotten, or deemed
> unimportant to the changed circumstances.
>
> This Working Group provides a mechanism for ASF Members to assist the
> board in advising projects. (See the FAQ, “Why a member?” before objecting
> to this. I am very firm on this point, and I believe that the board will be
> too, if asked.
>
> I want to STRENUOUSLY encourage you to read the entire proposal before
> responding, because I have foreseen a number of objections to this, most of
> which go under the heading of “who are YOU to tell US what to do?!” I am
> very cognizant of this. ComDev is a PEER to other projects, not in a
> position of authority. That said, every member is responsible, to a certain
> degree, for the direction the entire Foundation takes.
>
> I believe that this effort, if successful, could be hugely influential in
> the trajectory of the ASF in the coming years. I believe that this is, at
> heart, the primary mission of ComDev. I feel very strongly about the
> importance of this working group. I will be glad to hold forth at greater
> length over beer and/or scotch, at the next event facilitated by wg-social.
> ;-)
>
> Anyways, please read
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/community/wg-sharpeners/README.md
> and then think a little bit and then let me know what you think.
>
> Proposal also included below for convenience.
>
>
>
> # Sharpeners Work Group (Proposed)
>
> To provide "Sharpeners" - volunteers who come alongside a PMC to offer
> an outsider's perspective on the project, and advice to build their
> community.
>
> ## Who
>
> A Sharpener must be an ASF member. They are preferably a member who has
> been around a while, and has some reason to be trusted as a mentor. You
> must not already be a member of the PMC. You must not have any
> adversarial reason to take on the role - a bone to pick, a corporate
> entanglement, or whatever.
>
> ## What
>
> A Sharpener will subscribe to the project's PMC list
> (priv...@project.apache.org) and mostly listen. They will comment
> constructively when they see something that may be improved. They will
> report concerns back to the board, via  sections in the ComDev
> report, under a new "Workgroups" section that will be created for this
> purpose.
>
> ## Values
>
> Interactions by Sharpeners are at the pleasure of the PMC. You do not
> have any authority over the PMC.
>
> ### Declinable
>
> The PMC must be allowed to say "no thank you" without providing any
> reason, and you must respect that decision, and not offer again unless
> invited.
>
> ### Transparent
>
> When you subscribe to the private@ list, you MUST introduce yourself and
> state your purpose, complete with a link to THIS document. You MUST tell
> the PMC when you intend to report something back to either ComDev or the
> Board.
>
> We wil