Re:[WG: Website] Proposal - Website working group

[Trista Pan]

> Ensure that we don’t duplicate, contradict, or confuse.


Agreed, I’d like to be part of it if. Please let me know if there are anything 
I can give a hand. Thanks.



--
Trista Pan
Twitter & Github: tristaZero




On 02/8/2024 00:11，Rich Bowen wrote：
Proposed: Form a formal Website working group.

(I am aware that I haven’t defined “working group” yet, and I do, in fact, 
intend to propose a Working Groups Working Group which could possibly formalize 
what a working group looks like. I have some ideas, but no desire to go define 
it on my own.)

The Website WG would, obviously, be responsible for the maintenance of the 
website. I am aware that some folks think I’m just off doing that on my own, 
and that’s part of what I’m trying to avoid (see 
https://lists.apache.org/thread/nwvr28gq51c8v0wkqjv8xvvc2xqrtf03 for further 
commentary). I would like to gather a group of people who 1) care about it and 
2) are willing to do some of (NOT ALL) the work.

Specific things that I believe we should tackle include

* Long-term maintenance of the site. This involves regular audits, implementing 
metrics, and perhaps other things
* Reorg - this is a short-term task that I’ve been just doing on my own, which 
ensures it will never get done, and if it did, there may be some disagreement 
about how I did it.
* Deduplication - work closely with MarkPub to figure out the *right* place for 
certain information; work through the policy/best-practice dichotomy and ensure 
that we are *not* duplicating policy docs; Work on content on www.a.o 
 that is closely related to content on community.a.o - which 
one is authoritative? Ensure that we don’t duplicate, contradict, or confuse.

There’s probably more.

I would hope that a WG would have regular checkins (could be email, Slack, 
Google Meet, I really don’t care, as long as everyone is engaging with the 
conversation.)

If you are interested in helping form this group, please speak up in this 
thread, and help us help one another.

—
Rich Bowen
rbo...@rcbowen.com

Re: [WG: Website] Proposal - Website working group

[tison]

+1 Please count me in this WG. Below is my thoughts:

> I would hope that a WG would have regular checkins (could be email, Slack, 
> Google Meet

For an async group, we can use ASF Slack with a new channel.
#zookeeper-release is in this flavor and it works well. For any
actionable items we can discuss on GitHub Issues, JIRA tickets, or
GitHub PRs correspondingly.

For a sync meeting, I may prefer an on-demand meeting to a "regular
meeting" due to my proactive nature...And I'm in the +08:00 timezone
so in my previous experience, the regular schedule is often unfriendly
to me.

For certain site updates and maintenance, I share the feeling that we
have scattered knowledge as I state in this blog draft [1]. Besides,
I'm tracking two concrete improvements related to foundation level
website topics:

* Update Website Template [2]
* Update project maturity model to include trademark and branding [3]

I wonder if these tasks are under the WG objects - we can start the WG
effectively now to see if it's valuable to establish a formal
structure.

Best,
tison.

[1] 
https://github.com/tisonspieces/www-site/pull/8/files#diff-e57a0db6bf085338381727205cda6daef8f930a4b5059b58093cadd2889d6ae5R316-R324
[2] https://lists.apache.org/thread/nzzvz0j6mlgfn4pldxg6988oqw20b0bx
[3] https://lists.apache.org/thread/oc9jft1tyo7cbphcyrtwobf4w5rcbhfw

Trista Pan  于2024年2月8日周四 17:06写道：
>
> > Ensure that we don’t duplicate, contradict, or confuse.
>
>
> Agreed, I’d like to be part of it if. Please let me know if there are 
> anything I can give a hand. Thanks.
>
>
>
> --
> Trista Pan
> Twitter & Github: tristaZero
>
>
>
>
> On 02/8/2024 00:11，Rich Bowen wrote：
> Proposed: Form a formal Website working group.
>
> (I am aware that I haven’t defined “working group” yet, and I do, in fact, 
> intend to propose a Working Groups Working Group which could possibly 
> formalize what a working group looks like. I have some ideas, but no desire 
> to go define it on my own.)
>
> The Website WG would, obviously, be responsible for the maintenance of the 
> website. I am aware that some folks think I’m just off doing that on my own, 
> and that’s part of what I’m trying to avoid (see 
> https://lists.apache.org/thread/nwvr28gq51c8v0wkqjv8xvvc2xqrtf03 for further 
> commentary). I would like to gather a group of people who 1) care about it 
> and 2) are willing to do some of (NOT ALL) the work.
>
> Specific things that I believe we should tackle include
>
> * Long-term maintenance of the site. This involves regular audits, 
> implementing metrics, and perhaps other things
> * Reorg - this is a short-term task that I’ve been just doing on my own, 
> which ensures it will never get done, and if it did, there may be some 
> disagreement about how I did it.
> * Deduplication - work closely with MarkPub to figure out the *right* place 
> for certain information; work through the policy/best-practice dichotomy and 
> ensure that we are *not* duplicating policy docs; Work on content on www.a.o 
>  that is closely related to content on community.a.o - which 
> one is authoritative? Ensure that we don’t duplicate, contradict, or confuse.
>
> There’s probably more.
>
> I would hope that a WG would have regular checkins (could be email, Slack, 
> Google Meet, I really don’t care, as long as everyone is engaging with the 
> conversation.)
>
> If you are interested in helping form this group, please speak up in this 
> thread, and help us help one another.
>
> —
> Rich Bowen
> rbo...@rcbowen.com
>
>
>
>

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Re: [WG: WG] Proposal: Working groups working group

[Rich Bowen]

> On Feb 7, 2024, at 11:22 AM, Rich Bowen  wrote:
> 
> * Where to we want to track WG status? I would propose that we create 
> GitHub.com/apache/community  for stuff 
> like this, to mirror GitHub.com/kubernetes/community 
> , at least in spirit, but would like 
> to discuss this with more people

I’ve started putting stuff in https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/community

I like svn. If you don’t, please feel free to jump in and make an infra ticket 
to move/mirror that to GitHub.

—Rich

Re: [WG: WG] Proposal: Working groups working group

[tison]

>> I just want to make these things more discoverable
> please feel free to jump in and make an infra ticket to move/mirror that to 
> GitHub

If discoverable is an object, I suggest we use GitHub, at least as a
mirror and accept issues and discussions. It's also easier to share
over social media.

I created the ticket that you can check [1].

Best,
tison.

[1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-25482

Rich Bowen  于2024年2月8日周四 22:32写道：
>
>
> > On Feb 7, 2024, at 11:22 AM, Rich Bowen  wrote:
> >
> > * Where to we want to track WG status? I would propose that we create 
> > GitHub.com/apache/community  for stuff 
> > like this, to mirror GitHub.com/kubernetes/community 
> > , at least in spirit, but would 
> > like to discuss this with more people
>
> I’ve started putting stuff in 
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/community
>
> I like svn. If you don’t, please feel free to jump in and make an infra 
> ticket to move/mirror that to GitHub.
>
> —Rich
>

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Re: [WG: WG] Proposal: Working groups working group

[tison]

> Responsibilities

I like the idea of reporting somehow regularly. I found Rust team
works well in this area (meetings [1], updates [2]).

A more complicated example is Rust's Async WG [3]. Mainly, the goal of
a WG, status quo and what it wants to resolve/improve, then keep the
progress updated. I hope that WGs live finitely and for some
continuous improving domains, we create WGs for concrete milestones.

> Membership

We welcome all the participants. But to cooperate with the ASF/comdev,
I try to propose requiring a sponsor from the comdev PMC, and one or
more comdev committers involved.

More concretely, said a WG proposal with an initial members group,
with one or more committers as mentors, and approved by the comdev
PMC. This should be similar to the Incubator process.

Best,
tison.

[1] 
https://github.com/rust-lang/leadership-council/tree/main/minutes/sync-meeting
[2] 
https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/blob/master/content/working-groups/nll/NOTES.md
[3] https://rust-lang.github.io/wg-async/

tison  于2024年2月8日周四 22:49写道：
>
> >> I just want to make these things more discoverable
> > please feel free to jump in and make an infra ticket to move/mirror that to 
> > GitHub
>
> If discoverable is an object, I suggest we use GitHub, at least as a
> mirror and accept issues and discussions. It's also easier to share
> over social media.
>
> I created the ticket that you can check [1].
>
> Best,
> tison.
>
> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-25482
>
> Rich Bowen  于2024年2月8日周四 22:32写道：
> >
> >
> > > On Feb 7, 2024, at 11:22 AM, Rich Bowen  wrote:
> > >
> > > * Where to we want to track WG status? I would propose that we create 
> > > GitHub.com/apache/community  for 
> > > stuff like this, to mirror GitHub.com/kubernetes/community 
> > > , at least in spirit, but would 
> > > like to discuss this with more people
> >
> > I’ve started putting stuff in 
> > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/community
> >
> > I like svn. If you don’t, please feel free to jump in and make an infra 
> > ticket to move/mirror that to GitHub.
> >
> > —Rich
> >

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Re: [WG: Website] Proposal - Website working group

[Rich Bowen]

I’ve put a couple of docs in 
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/community/wg-website as a starting 
point. Note that someone has already opened an infra ticket to mirror this on 
Github, so if you hate svn, just wait a day or two.

I will be moving my ToDo list, which currently resides on paper here on my 
desk, to the file wip.md so that 1) folks know what I’m working on and 2) 
hopefully some of y’all can come help. Please also add your items there. Or, 
y’know, once we have a GitHub mirror, we can use tickets there instead? I don’t 
feel strongly about this. Just trying to get stuff done.

— 
Rich Bowen
rbo...@rcbowen.com




> On Feb 7, 2024, at 11:11 AM, Rich Bowen  wrote:
> 
> Proposed: Form a formal Website working group.
> 
> (I am aware that I haven’t defined “working group” yet, and I do, in fact, 
> intend to propose a Working Groups Working Group which could possibly 
> formalize what a working group looks like. I have some ideas, but no desire 
> to go define it on my own.)
> 
> The Website WG would, obviously, be responsible for the maintenance of the 
> website. I am aware that some folks think I’m just off doing that on my own, 
> and that’s part of what I’m trying to avoid (see 
> https://lists.apache.org/thread/nwvr28gq51c8v0wkqjv8xvvc2xqrtf03 for further 
> commentary). I would like to gather a group of people who 1) care about it 
> and 2) are willing to do some of (NOT ALL) the work.
> 
> Specific things that I believe we should tackle include
> 
> * Long-term maintenance of the site. This involves regular audits, 
> implementing metrics, and perhaps other things
> * Reorg - this is a short-term task that I’ve been just doing on my own, 
> which ensures it will never get done, and if it did, there may be some 
> disagreement about how I did it.
> * Deduplication - work closely with MarkPub to figure out the *right* place 
> for certain information; work through the policy/best-practice dichotomy and 
> ensure that we are *not* duplicating policy docs; Work on content on www.a.o 
>  that is closely related to content on community.a.o - which 
> one is authoritative? Ensure that we don’t duplicate, contradict, or confuse.
> 
> There’s probably more.
> 
> I would hope that a WG would have regular checkins (could be email, Slack, 
> Google Meet, I really don’t care, as long as everyone is engaging with the 
> conversation.)
> 
> If you are interested in helping form this group, please speak up in this 
> thread, and help us help one another.
> 
> — 
> Rich Bowen
> rbo...@rcbowen.com
> 
> 
> 
> 

charges from Apache Maven

[Daniela Botterbusch Cole]

hi-

Since mid-2023 I've been receiving monthly charges to my Amex card for $13.
Those charges are linked to Apache Maven Software and the bill request
comes from Salford GB.

I have no records in any of my email (or in any of my subscription
services) of having downloaded or subscribed to anything from Apache or
Maven, etc. I've looked everywhere.

I've placed a merchant block on my CC for all future transactions from your
side.

However, I would like to get to the bottom of this and understand where the
charges are coming from and what they are for. If it's for a
legitimate service I unknowingly use, then I'd need to remove the merchant
block, etc.

The account would be linked to either this email address or to
das...@ailuminate.ai

Please let me know if you can assist with this. If not, please point me in
the right direction.

Best,

Daniela

-- 
Daniela Botterbusch Cole
(c) 917.531.6345
das...@gmail.com

Re: [PR] I like RSS, but the content on those pages hasn't changed in more than a (comdev-site)

[via GitHub]

rbowen closed pull request #150: I like RSS, but the content on those pages 
hasn't changed in more than a
URL: https://github.com/apache/comdev-site/pull/150


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Re: charges from Apache Maven

[Rich Bowen]

Apache Maven is free software, and, as such, we have no record of who has 
downloaded it, or where they are running it, or for what purpose.

The Apache Software Foundation does not operate an Apache Maven hosted service 
(or any other for-pay hosted services), and these charges could not originate 
either with the Apache Maven project itself, or the Foundation as a whole. 
These transactions are not from us. I’m not personally aware of any org that 
hosts for-pay Maven services, so I’m not sure who to point you to. It’s 
possible that someone on the Maven mailing list 
(https://lists.apache.org/list.html?d...@maven.apache.org I think) might know?

— 
Rich Bowen
rbo...@rcbowen.com




> On Feb 8, 2024, at 9:44 AM, Daniela Botterbusch Cole  wrote:
> 
> hi-
> 
> Since mid-2023 I've been receiving monthly charges to my Amex card for $13.
> Those charges are linked to Apache Maven Software and the bill request
> comes from Salford GB.
> 
> I have no records in any of my email (or in any of my subscription
> services) of having downloaded or subscribed to anything from Apache or
> Maven, etc. I've looked everywhere.
> 
> I've placed a merchant block on my CC for all future transactions from your
> side.
> 
> However, I would like to get to the bottom of this and understand where the
> charges are coming from and what they are for. If it's for a
> legitimate service I unknowingly use, then I'd need to remove the merchant
> block, etc.
> 
> The account would be linked to either this email address or to
> das...@ailuminate.ai
> 
> Please let me know if you can assist with this. If not, please point me in
> the right direction.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Daniela
> 
> -- 
> Daniela Botterbusch Cole
> (c) 917.531.6345
> das...@gmail.com

[PR] Remove reference to defunct RSS feeds (comdev-site)

[via GitHub]

rbowen opened a new pull request, #153:
URL: https://github.com/apache/comdev-site/pull/153

   Reopens https://github.com/apache/comdev-site/pull/150 which git auto-closed 
when I was trying to fix my git clone. Have I mentioned I hate git?


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Re: [PR] Remove reference to defunct RSS feeds (comdev-site)

[via GitHub]

rbowen merged PR #153:
URL: https://github.com/apache/comdev-site/pull/153


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Re: [WG: Welcome] Proposal, a Welcome Working Group

[Kristopher Traquair]

Hey Rich, 

This sounds like a great idea. I'm not sure in what capacity, but I'd love to 
offer any assistance I can to help this WG.

On 2024/02/07 16:53:01 Rich Bowen wrote:
> Proposed: A formal working group around how we welcome new folks in a 
> consistent and helpful manner.
> 
> We get people on this list (and on every dev@ and user@ list at the 
> foundation) asking how to get engaged. We almost always give them unhelpful 
> answers, and send them off to go figure it out on their own.
> 
> The Welcome WG would write documentation, and process, around welcoming these 
> new folks, and shepherding them towards engagement. This would include, but 
> not be limited to:
> 
> * Guiding projects towards the incubator. This includes the “why would you 
> want to be at Apache? Why would you *NOT* fit at Apache?” documentation that 
> we really don’t have yet.
> * Guiding brand-new contributors towards how, and where, to contribute. This 
> may include working with some of our more welcoming projects to figure out 
> best practice, and our less-welcoming projects to figure out why they are and 
> help them fix that.
> * Working with second-time contributors to encourage best practice. (See 
> https://mikemcquaid.com/stop-mentoring-first-time-contributors/ for thoughts 
> on first- vs second-time contributors)
> * Crafting boilerplate answers to send to folks who show up asking for help 
> getting involved, so that we don’t continue this practice of unhelpful “go 
> figure it out on your own” responses.
> * Maybe work on some kind of a badging program (See 
> https://badges.fedoraproject.org/ if you don’t know what I mean by that) to 
> incentivize and gamify community engagement, for reasons that I would love to 
> talk much more about, but are beyond the scope of this proposal.
> 
> What do y’all think?
> 
> — 
> Rich Bowen
> rbo...@rcbowen.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

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[PR] Overview of what a year in the life of a director looks like. (comdev-site)

[via GitHub]

rbowen opened a new pull request, #154:
URL: https://github.com/apache/comdev-site/pull/154

   Draft "what's it like to be a director" doc. This is not directly linked 
from anywhere, so I feel comfortable just tossing it out here for review.
   


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Re: [PR] Overview of what a year in the life of a director looks like. (comdev-site)

[via GitHub]

rbowen merged PR #154:
URL: https://github.com/apache/comdev-site/pull/154


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Re: charges from Apache Maven

[Slawomir Jaranowski]

Hi,

As an Apache Maven team member I confirm what Rich wrote.
Apache Maven team don't charge users especially in monthly payout.

You should only use software from oficial Apache distribution, like for
Maven:
https://maven.apache.org/download.cgi

 So now you can try to complain about payments in your bank.

You can report the matter of pretending - impersonating the Apache Software
Foundation by other organizations - to the Apache legal department
https://www.apache.org/legal/
https://issues.apache.org/jira/projects/LEGAL/




czw., 8 lut 2024 o 16:45 Rich Bowen  napisał(a):

> Apache Maven is free software, and, as such, we have no record of who has
> downloaded it, or where they are running it, or for what purpose.
>
> The Apache Software Foundation does not operate an Apache Maven hosted
> service (or any other for-pay hosted services), and these charges could not
> originate either with the Apache Maven project itself, or the Foundation as
> a whole. These transactions are not from us. I’m not personally aware of
> any org that hosts for-pay Maven services, so I’m not sure who to point you
> to. It’s possible that someone on the Maven mailing list (
> https://lists.apache.org/list.html?d...@maven.apache.org I think) might
> know?
>
> —
> Rich Bowen
> rbo...@rcbowen.com
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 8, 2024, at 9:44 AM, Daniela Botterbusch Cole 
> wrote:
> >
> > hi-
> >
> > Since mid-2023 I've been receiving monthly charges to my Amex card for
> $13.
> > Those charges are linked to Apache Maven Software and the bill request
> > comes from Salford GB.
> >
> > I have no records in any of my email (or in any of my subscription
> > services) of having downloaded or subscribed to anything from Apache or
> > Maven, etc. I've looked everywhere.
> >
> > I've placed a merchant block on my CC for all future transactions from
> your
> > side.
> >
> > However, I would like to get to the bottom of this and understand where
> the
> > charges are coming from and what they are for. If it's for a
> > legitimate service I unknowingly use, then I'd need to remove the
> merchant
> > block, etc.
> >
> > The account would be linked to either this email address or to
> > das...@ailuminate.ai
> >
> > Please let me know if you can assist with this. If not, please point me
> in
> > the right direction.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Daniela
> >
> > --
> > Daniela Botterbusch Cole
> > (c) 917.531.6345
> > das...@gmail.com
>
>

-- 
Sławomir Jaranowski

Re: [PR] Overview of what a year in the life of a director looks like. (comdev-site)

[via GitHub]

justinmclean commented on code in PR #154:
URL: https://github.com/apache/comdev-site/pull/154#discussion_r1483616892


##
source/board/overview.md:
##
@@ -0,0 +1,89 @@
+---
+title: An overview of board responsibilities
+url: /board/overview.html
+tags: ["board"]
+---
+
+What's involved in being a director? This document tries to give an
+overview of the time commitment involved, and what the work looks like.
+
+The official duties of the Board are defined [on the Apache Governance
+website](https://apache.org/foundation/governance/board.html). You
+should read that doc, and those to which it links, first.
+
+This document tries to give a little more flavor, for the benefit of
+someone who's considering running for their first term as a Director.
+
+# Work Load
+
+## Monthly meeting
+
+As with most things in open source, you can spend as much time on them
+as you want, and pursue your indivual passions. However, being a
+director does carry certain basic responsibilities.
+You are expected to attend the board meeting, once a month. This meeting
+can run from a half hour, on up, depending on the issues to be discussed
+in that particular month.
+
+The shortest board meeting ran less than 15 minutes, while the longest
+ones have been upwards of 2 hours.
+

Review Comment:
   Might it be good to mention that these may be on at inconvenient times?



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Re: [PR] Overview of what a year in the life of a director looks like. (comdev-site)

[via GitHub]

justinmclean commented on code in PR #154:
URL: https://github.com/apache/comdev-site/pull/154#discussion_r1483616892


##
source/board/overview.md:
##
@@ -0,0 +1,89 @@
+---
+title: An overview of board responsibilities
+url: /board/overview.html
+tags: ["board"]
+---
+
+What's involved in being a director? This document tries to give an
+overview of the time commitment involved, and what the work looks like.
+
+The official duties of the Board are defined [on the Apache Governance
+website](https://apache.org/foundation/governance/board.html). You
+should read that doc, and those to which it links, first.
+
+This document tries to give a little more flavor, for the benefit of
+someone who's considering running for their first term as a Director.
+
+# Work Load
+
+## Monthly meeting
+
+As with most things in open source, you can spend as much time on them
+as you want, and pursue your indivual passions. However, being a
+director does carry certain basic responsibilities.
+You are expected to attend the board meeting, once a month. This meeting
+can run from a half hour, on up, depending on the issues to be discussed
+in that particular month.
+
+The shortest board meeting ran less than 15 minutes, while the longest
+ones have been upwards of 2 hours.
+

Review Comment:
   Might it be good to mention that these may be on at inconvenient times? And 
are typically 1 hour long.



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Re: [PR] Overview of what a year in the life of a director looks like. (comdev-site)

[via GitHub]

justinmclean commented on code in PR #154:
URL: https://github.com/apache/comdev-site/pull/154#discussion_r1483618591


##
source/board/overview.md:
##
@@ -0,0 +1,89 @@
+---
+title: An overview of board responsibilities
+url: /board/overview.html
+tags: ["board"]
+---
+
+What's involved in being a director? This document tries to give an
+overview of the time commitment involved, and what the work looks like.
+
+The official duties of the Board are defined [on the Apache Governance
+website](https://apache.org/foundation/governance/board.html). You
+should read that doc, and those to which it links, first.
+
+This document tries to give a little more flavor, for the benefit of
+someone who's considering running for their first term as a Director.
+
+# Work Load
+
+## Monthly meeting
+
+As with most things in open source, you can spend as much time on them
+as you want, and pursue your indivual passions. However, being a
+director does carry certain basic responsibilities.
+You are expected to attend the board meeting, once a month. This meeting
+can run from a half hour, on up, depending on the issues to be discussed
+in that particular month.
+
+The shortest board meeting ran less than 15 minutes, while the longest
+ones have been upwards of 2 hours.
+
+## Pre-meeting work
+
+Most of the work of a board meeting happens before the meeting starts,
+as discussed in the [formal
+documentation](https://apache.org/foundation/governance/board.html). 
+
+The Incubator report, in particular, consists of the podling reports
+for all active incubation efforts, and so is effectively a dozen reports
+on its own.
+
+In a typical month, there will be between 70 and 90 individual board
+reports. In addition to that, there are a dozen officers reports,
+various special orders, and following up on action items.
+
+If you review each of your shepherd projects in depth, and attempt to read

Review Comment:
   Mention, how many report a director is assigned to as a shepherd?



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