Re: [RELEASE] Apache Cassandra 4.0.2 released

[bened...@apache.org]

As discussed on 15234, there is never a rush to remove Config parameters, and 
it should only be done when there’s some clear value. Since the overhead of 
having an unused parameter is ~zero, in my opinion this occurs only when we 
really need the operator to consider the semantic impact of its deprecation.

We should never break minor upgrades, but we shouldn’t break any upgrade 
unnecessarily.

I wonder if we should introduce a compile time check that validates config 
compatibility with prior versions, to avoid this in future.

From: Dinesh Joshi 
Date: Saturday, 12 February 2022 at 00:09
To: dev@cassandra.apache.org 
Subject: Re: [RELEASE] Apache Cassandra 4.0.2 released
We should also have deprecation guidance in Config.java. This will help when 
anybody is making changes in the future.


On Feb 11, 2022, at 3:07 PM, Ekaterina Dimitrova 
mailto:e.dimitr...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Note taken, I had to document only in 4.0.x that those are placeholder. I just 
opened ticket to fix that - CASSANDRA-17377. I am going to submit a patch soon

On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 at 17:44, Jeff Jirsa 
mailto:jji...@gmail.com>> wrote:
We don't HAVE TO remove the Config.java entry - we can mark it as deprecated 
and ignored and remove it in a future version (and you could update Config.java 
to log a message about having a deprecated config option). It's a much better 
operator experience: log for a major version, then remove in the next.

On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 2:41 PM Ekaterina Dimitrova 
mailto:e.dimitr...@gmail.com>> wrote:
This had to be removed in 4.0 but it wasn’t. The patch mentioned did it to fix 
a bug that gives impression those work. Confirmed with Benedict on the ticket.

I agree I absolutely had to document it better, a ticket for documentation was 
opened but it slipped from my mind with this emergency release this week. It is 
unfortunate it is still in our backlog after the ADOC migration.

Note taken. I truly apologize and I am going to prioritize CASSANDRA-17135. Let 
me know if there is anything else I can/should do at this point.

On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 at 17:26, Erick Ramirez 
mailto:erick.rami...@datastax.com>> wrote:
(moved dev@ to BCC)

It looks like the otc_coalescing_strategy config key is no longer supported in 
cassandra.yaml in 4.0.2, despite this not being mentioned anywhere in 
CHANGES.txt or NEWS.txt.

James, you're right -- it was removed by 
CASSANDRA-17132 in 4.0.2 
and 4.1.

I agree that the CHANGES.txt entry should be clearer and we'll improve it plus 
add detailed info in NEWS.txt. I'll get this done soon in 
CASSANDRA-17135. Thanks 
for the feedback. Cheers!

Re: [RELEASE] Apache Cassandra 4.0.2 released

[Ekaterina Dimitrova]

 15234 was a discussion about changing names and making parameters work
with the old ones.  Still working parameters, backward compatibility and
not placeholders.

Benedict, I can understand that when I said removal in this ticket you
thought I will deprecate in Config but unfortunately it is not what I
meant. I should have asked you also for review.  I take the responsibility
of doing a mistake here by removing in minor release thinking this is a bug
that leads to dangerous confusion you can still use them. Indeed
CHANGES.txt entry was created but not NEWS.txt and it requires a person to
check which exact parameters were removed to take an action. I pushed a
patch already to fix this. Docs are also on the way now when ADOC migration
is over.

One of the yaml parameters was actually also already removed with the
rewrite of the messaging system in 4.0. I added back that one to Config too
yesterday, to be on the safe side.

“ I wonder if we should introduce a compile time check that validates
config compatibility with prior versions, to avoid this in future”

I think David is working on some tests to catch removed config in trunk, I
will follow up on Monday with him.

On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 at 5:49, bened...@apache.org 
wrote:

> As discussed on 15234, there is never a rush to remove Config parameters,
> and it should only be done when there’s some clear value. Since the
> overhead of having an unused parameter is ~zero, in my opinion this occurs
> only when we really need the operator to consider the semantic impact of
> its deprecation.
>
>
>
> We should never break minor upgrades, but we shouldn’t break any upgrade
> unnecessarily.
>
>
>
> I wonder if we should introduce a compile time check that validates config
> compatibility with prior versions, to avoid this in future.
>
>
>
> *From: *Dinesh Joshi 
> *Date: *Saturday, 12 February 2022 at 00:09
> *To: *dev@cassandra.apache.org 
> *Subject: *Re: [RELEASE] Apache Cassandra 4.0.2 released
>
> We should also have deprecation guidance in Config.java. This will help
> when anybody is making changes in the future.
>
>
>
> On Feb 11, 2022, at 3:07 PM, Ekaterina Dimitrova 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Note taken, I had to document only in 4.0.x that those are placeholder. I
> just opened ticket to fix that - CASSANDRA-17377. I am going to submit a
> patch soon
>
>
>
> On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 at 17:44, Jeff Jirsa  wrote:
>
> We don't HAVE TO remove the Config.java entry - we can mark it as
> deprecated and ignored and remove it in a future version (and you could
> update Config.java to log a message about having a deprecated config
> option). It's a much better operator experience: log for a major version,
> then remove in the next.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 2:41 PM Ekaterina Dimitrova 
> wrote:
>
> This had to be removed in 4.0 but it wasn’t. The patch mentioned did it to
> fix a bug that gives impression those work. Confirmed with Benedict on the
> ticket.
>
>
>
> I agree I absolutely had to document it better, a ticket for documentation
> was opened but it slipped from my mind with this emergency release this
> week. It is unfortunate it is still in our backlog after the ADOC migration.
>
>
>
> Note taken. I truly apologize and I am going to prioritize
> CASSANDRA-17135. Let me know if there is anything else I can/should do at
> this point.
>
>
>
> On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 at 17:26, Erick Ramirez 
> wrote:
>
> (moved dev@ to BCC)
>
>
>
> It looks like the otc_coalescing_strategy config key is no longer
> supported in cassandra.yaml in 4.0.2, despite this not being mentioned
> anywhere in CHANGES.txt or NEWS.txt.
>
>
>
> James, you're right -- it was removed by CASSANDRA-17132
>  in 4.0.2 and 4.1.
>
>
>
> I agree that the CHANGES.txt entry should be clearer and we'll improve it
> plus add detailed info in NEWS.txt. I'll get this done soon in
> CASSANDRA-17135 .
> Thanks for the feedback. Cheers!
>
>
>

Re: [RELEASE] Apache Cassandra 4.0.2 released

[Dinesh Joshi]

+1 on introducing compile time checks to ensure backward compatibility.

Confusion due to usage of deprecated settings is understandable. However, 
settings marked deprecated should produce a warning in logs so that the 
operators become aware of their usage in the YAML and can migrate to the newer 
settings.

Also breakages do happen once in a while. As long as we fix them quickly and/or 
revert the code in the meanwhile it's fine.

> On Feb 12, 2022, at 3:56 AM, Ekaterina Dimitrova  
> wrote:
> 
>  15234 was a discussion about changing names and making parameters work with 
> the old ones.  Still working parameters, backward compatibility and not 
> placeholders. 
> 
> Benedict, I can understand that when I said removal in this ticket you 
> thought I will deprecate in Config but unfortunately it is not what I meant. 
> I should have asked you also for review.  I take the responsibility of doing 
> a mistake here by removing in minor release thinking this is a bug that leads 
> to dangerous confusion you can still use them. Indeed CHANGES.txt entry was 
> created but not NEWS.txt and it requires a person to check which exact 
> parameters were removed to take an action. I pushed a patch already to fix 
> this. Docs are also on the way now when ADOC migration is over.
> 
> One of the yaml parameters was actually also already removed with the rewrite 
> of the messaging system in 4.0. I added back that one to Config too 
> yesterday, to be on the safe side.
> 
> “ I wonder if we should introduce a compile time check that validates config 
> compatibility with prior versions, to avoid this in future”
> 
> I think David is working on some tests to catch removed config in trunk, I 
> will follow up on Monday with him.
> 
> On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 at 5:49, bened...@apache.org  
> mailto:bened...@apache.org>> wrote:
> As discussed on 15234, there is never a rush to remove Config parameters, and 
> it should only be done when there’s some clear value. Since the overhead of 
> having an unused parameter is ~zero, in my opinion this occurs only when we 
> really need the operator to consider the semantic impact of its deprecation.
> 
>  
> 
> We should never break minor upgrades, but we shouldn’t break any upgrade 
> unnecessarily.
> 
>  
> 
> I wonder if we should introduce a compile time check that validates config 
> compatibility with prior versions, to avoid this in future.
> 
>  
> 
> From: Dinesh Joshi mailto:djo...@apache.org>>
> Date: Saturday, 12 February 2022 at 00:09
> To: dev@cassandra.apache.org  
> mailto:dev@cassandra.apache.org>>
> Subject: Re: [RELEASE] Apache Cassandra 4.0.2 released
> 
> We should also have deprecation guidance in Config.java. This will help when 
> anybody is making changes in the future.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Feb 11, 2022, at 3:07 PM, Ekaterina Dimitrova  > wrote:
> 
>  
> 
> Note taken, I had to document only in 4.0.x that those are placeholder. I 
> just opened ticket to fix that - CASSANDRA-17377. I am going to submit a 
> patch soon
> 
>  
> 
> On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 at 17:44, Jeff Jirsa  > wrote:
> 
> We don't HAVE TO remove the Config.java entry - we can mark it as deprecated 
> and ignored and remove it in a future version (and you could update 
> Config.java to log a message about having a deprecated config option). It's a 
> much better operator experience: log for a major version, then remove in the 
> next.
> 
>  
> 
> On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 2:41 PM Ekaterina Dimitrova  > wrote:
> 
> This had to be removed in 4.0 but it wasn’t. The patch mentioned did it to 
> fix a bug that gives impression those work. Confirmed with Benedict on the 
> ticket.
> 
>  
> 
> I agree I absolutely had to document it better, a ticket for documentation 
> was opened but it slipped from my mind with this emergency release this week. 
> It is unfortunate it is still in our backlog after the ADOC migration.
> 
>  
> 
> Note taken. I truly apologize and I am going to prioritize CASSANDRA-17135. 
> Let me know if there is anything else I can/should do at this point. 
> 
>  
> 
> On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 at 17:26, Erick Ramirez  > wrote:
> 
> (moved dev@ to BCC)
> 
>  
> 
> It looks like the otc_coalescing_strategy config key is no longer supported 
> in cassandra.yaml in 4.0.2, despite this not being mentioned anywhere in 
> CHANGES.txt or NEWS.txt.
> 
>  
> 
> James, you're right -- it was removed by CASSANDRA-17132 
>  in 4.0.2 and 4.1.
> 
>  
> 
> I agree that the CHANGES.txt entry should be clearer and we'll improve it 
> plus add detailed info in NEWS.txt. I'll get this done soon in 
> CASSANDRA-17135 . 
> Thanks for the feedback. Cheers!
> 
>  
>