Re: Download source release / binary files in source release
Hi Justin, You are probably right, but as far as I am aware you are not an official source of ASF policy on this matter. The official policy pages do not stipulate this, so I would appreciate if you could get them updated to accord more clearly your beliefs before the project makes the necessary changes. > If the board was to get involved then I think it would be likely, going on > previous similar situations, it would ask for the project to remove the non > complainant releases. I can only speak for myself, but I am happy to ensure future releases follow this policy once it is clearly stated as an official ASF policy by the official policy documentation. As for prior releases, since 1) the official guidance has not required this to date; and 2) there is no _legal_ reason to require this (per the LEGAL thread you linked), I have no personal intention of going back to modify prior releases. The board is of course free to wield whichever tools it likes, but please remember that this is a volunteer endeavour. Expecting project members to volunteer days of their time to retroactively meet a policy they had not been informed of, was in no official guidance, and has no legal reasoning behind it, is a tough sell. On 28/03/2021, 05:15, "Justin Mclean" wrote: Hi, I can say with 100% certainty that: - ASF source releases cannot contain compiled code (jars, dlls or the like) - ASF source releases cannot include Category B code compiled or not compiled - ASF convenience binaries can contain Category B compiled code In various roles at the ASF including PMC member, mentor, VP Incubator I have reviewed somewhere between 600 and 700 releases (and possible more) over the last decade. Every single time I've seen a source release candidate contained compiled code I have voted -1 on it. I've see many many others do the same and I cannot recall any source release containing compiled code being made an ASF release. At ApacheCon I often give talks on how to make releases. Every release check list I've seen includes a check for compile code. I could go on but I think that's probably enough context. On a couple of occasions there's been a little confusion around this so I'll make sure the above is clearly stated in our legal FAQ/policy, after some discussion on the legal discuss list. This is not my project and I hope the PMC looks into this, decides what to do, and does what they think is needed to correct this. It would be best not to have to get the ASF board involved (of which I'm a current member). If the board was to get involved then I think it would be likely, going on previous similar situations, it would ask for the project to remove the non complainant releases. Thanks, Justin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@cassandra.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@cassandra.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@cassandra.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@cassandra.apache.org
Re: Download source release / binary files in source release
Hi, > You are probably right, but as far as I am aware you are not an official > source of ASF policy on this matter. I am currently assistant VP legal affairs and have made changes to ASF policy before, in particular to the release and distribution policy. I guess you are asking for something official from VP Legal Affairs or the ASF board? If so I can make that happen. > The official policy pages do not stipulate this IMO it does, the project can choose to ignore that if they want. I suggest you read what Roy wrote on this subject, ask why are you the only project (that I'm aware of) who have source releases with compiled code in them, and look at other discussions that have occurred on this subject. > As for prior releases, since 1) the official guidance has not required this > to date; and 2) there is no _legal_ reason to require this (per the LEGAL > thread you linked), I have no personal intention of going back to modify > prior releases. The is incorrect as VP legal (at the time) closed that issue and this has been discussed elsewhere on the legal list. Every single other release candidate containing compiled code across dozens (100's?) of projects have received -1 votes from their PMC and not been released. Saying we all volunteers, while true, doesn't remove the responsibility the PMC has to make sure its releases are open source / comply with ASF policy. Unless you have any other questions, I don't think I have anything more to say on this subject, and will wait to see what the PMC does about this. If you do want my help on this, just ask and I do what I can. Thanks, Justin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@cassandra.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@cassandra.apache.org
Re: Download source release / binary files in source release
> I guess you are asking for something official from VP Legal Affairs or the > ASF board? If so I can make that happen. I would prefer the official policy pages to be updated to have a clear statement on this, so this problem can be solved in perpetuity. > IMO it does, the project can choose to ignore that if they want. I suggest > you read what Roy wrote on this subject I have read all of the above, and none of these rise to official statements of policy that clearly accord with your view. I'm not ignoring anything, surely you can at least agree that official statements on this are unclear? > Saying we all volunteers, while true, doesn't remove the responsibility the > PMC has to make sure its releases are open source / comply with ASF policy. The PMC has acted in good faith in this matter, and has followed the official policy documents as it interprets them. How else is the PMC meant to discern ASF policy? I am happy to accept there has been a failure to communicate the intended policy, but asking the PMC to bear a significant cost correcting actions taken in good faith on reasonable readings of the policy documents would not in my opinion be reasonable. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@cassandra.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@cassandra.apache.org
Re: Download source release / binary files in source release
> I can only speak for myself, but I am happy to ensure future releases > follow this policy once it is clearly stated as an official ASF policy by > the official policy documentation. > +1 I recommend that the PMC continues its vote on 4.0-rc1. With the understanding that the ASF updates the policy documentation to be clear and accurate, and we work fast at fixing the issues for the next release that occurs once those doc updates are in place. Getting 4.0-rc1 out with the same state as a hundred or more previous releases is fine IMO, until the ASF docs are clear and don't require knowledge of precedence, legal tickets, ML threads, and individual's interjections. Justin, your help on the LICENSE (1) and NOTICE (4) would be greatly appreciated. Missing copyright headers are already fixed. And if CASSANDRA-16391 can't be done quickly I can look into how to hack the release process to replace lib/ with a curl script. cheers, Mick
Re: Download source release / binary files in source release
HI, > I recommend that the PMC continues its vote on 4.0-rc1. In that case I'll need to raise this issue with theASF board. Justin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@cassandra.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@cassandra.apache.org
Re: Download source release / binary files in source release
I thought you had indicated you were anyway raising this with the board? Either way, I don't personally see any issue with delaying the vote by a week or so if it will bring some official clarity to this issue, now it has been raised. How quickly can we expect to see changes reflected in the official policy documents? On 28/03/2021, 11:48, "Justin Mclean" wrote: HI, > I recommend that the PMC continues its vote on 4.0-rc1. In that case I'll need to raise this issue with theASF board. Justin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@cassandra.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@cassandra.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@cassandra.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@cassandra.apache.org
Re: Download source release / binary files in source release
> > I thought you had indicated you were anyway raising this with the board? > > Either way, I don't personally see any issue with delaying the vote by a > week or so if it will bring some official clarity to this issue, now it has > been raised. How quickly can we expect to see changes reflected in the > official policy documents? > A thread has been started on legal-discuss: https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/rd1aabe5052b5bedf3eceebd331f878b92a8ade6d4ca170f845d5db37%40%3Clegal-discuss.apache.org%3E Given the same agreement there that the ASF's docs are unclear on the topic, and having to rely upon a post from Roy in *some thread, I think it is safe to say we can (if need be) continue until those docs are made up to date. Also, I cannot see how the ASF can enforce anything retroactively. Justin, please inform us of the threads you start. The Cassandra PMC is also capable of dealing with these issues themselves, through the board reports and with legal. The information you have provided is valuable and appreciated, please do trust us that we will treat the matter seriously, while also keeping a focus on community>code.
Re: Download source release / binary files in source release
Hi, > Given the same agreement there that the ASF's docs are unclear on the > topic, and having to rely upon a post from Roy in *some thread, I think it > is safe to say we can (if need be) continue until those docs are made up to > date. Also, I cannot see how the ASF can enforce anything retroactively. This is not a retrospective change just a clarification on what should be self evident. The ASF has made retrospective changes in the past e.g. changes to ASF header policy and changes to license compatability. > Justin, please inform us of the threads you start. I said above I would get this clarified on legal discuss. I've also added a discussion item to the next board meeting. Thanks, Justin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@cassandra.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@cassandra.apache.org
Re: Download source release / binary files in source release
> This is not a retrospective change just a clarification on what should be > self evident. This is a non-sequitur surely? Can something that is self-evident need clarifying? Or do you suppose it is self-evident to all besides the feeble intellects of this community? I think a self-evident policy would anyway be an oxymoron. I'll note that the legal-discuss list seem to disagree about both the current policy (LEGAL-288 endorsed binaries in source control, but apparently Ray did not), and about the sense of restricting binary dependencies in source releases. This doesn't sound very self-evident to me. On 28/03/2021, 23:49, "Justin Mclean" wrote: Hi, > Given the same agreement there that the ASF's docs are unclear on the > topic, and having to rely upon a post from Roy in *some thread, I think it > is safe to say we can (if need be) continue until those docs are made up to > date. Also, I cannot see how the ASF can enforce anything retroactively. This is not a retrospective change just a clarification on what should be self evident. The ASF has made retrospective changes in the past e.g. changes to ASF header policy and changes to license compatability. > Justin, please inform us of the threads you start. I said above I would get this clarified on legal discuss. I've also added a discussion item to the next board meeting. Thanks, Justin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@cassandra.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@cassandra.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@cassandra.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@cassandra.apache.org
Re: Welcome Berenguer Blasi as Cassandra committer
Thanks all. Really appreciate it :-) On 27/3/21 0:24, Lorina Poland wrote: > Just adding more congratulations, Berenguer! Well-deserved! > > Lorina Poland > e. lor...@datastax.com > w. www.datastax.com > > > > On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 12:17 PM Yifan Cai wrote: > >> Congratulations Berenguer! >> >> - Yifan >> >>> On Mar 26, 2021, at 11:49 AM, Sumanth Pasupuleti < >> sumanth.pasupuleti...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Congratulations Berenguer! >> - >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@cassandra.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@cassandra.apache.org >> >> - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@cassandra.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@cassandra.apache.org
