PPP / ADSL / demand / GUI prompt question
Hello all, new Debian user here, hope somebody can help. With no help, and asking no questions until now - but extensive use of Google! - I have managed to partition my PC's hard drive, download the 5.0.3 net-inst ISO image, install Debian on my new partition, find the firmware for my ADSL modem so that I could get pon and poff working, then use 'aptitude' to download just about everything else I wanted, or thought I wanted: nvidia drivers, xorg, kfce, slim, iceweasel, adobe-flashplugin, ntfs-3g, alsa-utils, and sharp Microsoft fonts. All of the above is working, including pon and poff, but I have a question as follows. (I am surprised I haven't been able to find the answer to this using Google / the Debian website / aptitude etc., so if I am missing something obvious please go easy on me!) At the moment I have to start an xterm and explicitly type 'pon' before I can use any internet-based programs such as iceweasel or even ping. My question is, is there any way I can get iceweasel (or ping) to cause a GUI dialog to appear, asking me if I want to establish the ADSL connection, if it is not up? (In other words, the way it works in Windows?) Said GUI dialog would preferably work on top of kfce, which I like. I HAVE tried adding the line 'demand' to my /etc/ppp/peers/provider file. After doing that if I run pon and then plog -f, I can see messages up to the point where it tells me the local and remote IP addresses, with nothing after that - presumably because pppd is waiting for some 'demand' before it connects. However, when I then try iceweasel, it still says 'site not found' and and nothing more appears in the plog -f output. Similarly, when I try ping, it still says unknown host. Just a reminder, even if this were working, this would still not be 100% of what I am after - I would like to know if there is a way that I can be prompted if anything wants to connect to the internet - preferably via a GUI dialog that works on top of kfce. However I would still be interested to know why the 'demand' line in my PPP provider file does not seem to have the desired effect. Thank you in advance. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: PPP / ADSL / demand / GUI prompt question
Hi Michael thanks for your help. I tried those three lines at the top of my provider file but they do not seem to have made any difference. (As an aside I did find it strange that if I put the 'connect' line somewhere else in the file other than at the top, pppd complains that it is an 'unrecognised option'! It doesn't complain if it is the first line however.) Thanks again Stephen --- On Fri, 10/30/09, Michael Wagner wrote: > I have these lines at the top of my /etc/ppp/peers/provider > > connect /bin/true > demand > idle 180 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: PPP / ADSL / demand / GUI prompt question
Celejar: > something using a local "firewall", plus something like fwlogwatch, > invoked with the -R option for "realtime response mode". The idea Thanks for that, I will have look at fwlogwatch if / when I have some more time to spend on this (unfortunately, a week off work just ended today). Kevin Ross: > I would suggest getting "demand" to work with pppd first. I agree, this would be enough to allow me to let the machine boot up into Linux by default (as explained at the end of this message). So, does anyone out there have any more suggestions as to what might be wrong with my attempt to use 'demand' with pppd? > Then, you could use the "connect" option to launch some type of graphical > yes/no prompt. You may have to throw something together with Tcl/Tk or > similar. Thanks, if / when I have time I will look into what the 'connect' option does (apart from its surprising ability to only work when it is the first line in the file :-) Stan Hoeppner: > What do you have against using a PPPoE broadband router, > like (most of) > the rest of us? Masochist? During my first bout of epic googling this week (when I was trying to get the Internet connection working) I did come across the recommendation, in several places, that I buy a router and possibly also an Ethernet card. If you suspect I had something against this idea then your intuition is sound. That something being the fact that Windows has let me surf the Internet very happily for the last 7 years with the hardware I have :-) In fact I am already surfing happily with Debian, even though I had never heard of iceweasel until 3 days ago (at first I thought how stupid is that name, but the name has grown on me and I never really liked the name 'Firefox' anyway, how could they not think it would constantly remind us of that Clint Eastwood movie?) It is just that I would prefer that non-technical guests staying at my house not have to learn to start an xfce-term and type 'pon' before they can use the Internet. If it comes to that I would make the machine boot up into Windows by default, but that would be an opportunity lost with regard to showing people that there is an alternative. Thanks again to all who have replied. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: PPP / ADSL / demand / GUI prompt question
I have run pppoeconf as root, it is one of the things I tried over the last few days. I just did it again, since I couldn't remember what happened the last time. It just says no working Ethernet card can be found, not surprising really since I don't have an Ethernet card. Am I missing something here? --- On Sat, 10/31/09, John Hasler wrote: > Then why don't you just run pppoeconf as root, follow > instructions, and > be happy? Why do you want to complicate things? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: PPP / ADSL / demand / GUI prompt question
--- On Sat, 10/31/09, Stan Hoeppner wrote: > Maybe I missed something in a previous post. If you > don't have > ethernet, then how are you connecting to the dsl > modem? USB? Yes USB to ADSL modem to POTS. I think your suggestion of buying a router was still valid however, I found several recommendations to do this when I was Googling to find out how to get pon and poff working. However I was and am determined that I shouldn't need to buy any more hardware than Windows has needed, and I felt vindicated in this when I did get pon and poff working. With that I now have almost everything I want, so the case for buying more hardware is even weaker now than it was when I started out. I could even put 'pon' in the initrc file (or whatever it's called these days), or perhaps in users' .profiles, so that nobody would need to type it explicitly. However I would prefer to get the 'demand' feature working - since it is supposed to work, and it is cooler - and I also still like the idea of having a GUI dialog. Maybe it's because I have used Windows for too long and have developed Stockholm syndrome, but I like the way it lets me see, and approve, connection attempts. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
RE: PPP / ADSL / demand / GUI prompt question
H.S.:
> 3. Make a shortcut on everyone's desktop to call the pon command ("sudo
> pon dsl-provider").
Thanks for that suggestion H.S., yes I think my 'guests' could manage that. I
have added my guest accounts to the 'dip' group so the shortcut wouldn't need
to use 'sudo'. However, in light of other replies I think I am probably going
to try to go with the 'always connected' option.
Stan Hoeppner:
> Your DSL modem connects to a DSLAM, not POTS.
(*quickly looks up what DSLAM stands for on Wikipedia*) I knew that :-)
> You must have been a long time POTS modem dialup (or worse on top of
> that, AOL) user given your goofy preference to see a dial on demand GUI
> box. xDSL is an "always connected" technology. There is no reason to
> ever "hang up". Thus, just configure the PPPoE client to stay
> connected, or re-connect should the PPPoE session be dropped for any
> reason. And have it do it all in the background. There's no need for
> user interaction, none whatsoever.
Thanks for explaining that, which I wasn't 100% aware of. I thought maybe some
ADSL providers charged by time connected the way they do with dial-up, although
I knew mine didn't. I think maybe you have cured me of my Stockholm syndrome =
GUI dialog neediness.
Actually I have been using ADSL a lot longer than I was on dial-up, and no I
have never been an AOL customer. I long ago imbibed the Unix philosophy of 'do
one thing and do it well' and I expect my ISP to follow that maxim too.
> Regarding a broadband router, it's not about "need", it's about
> convenience and ease of use. It also adds a layer of security
> protection due to NAT and SPI, especially if you've not configured
> iptables on Linux to provide a packet firewall. And, configuring the
> firewall features of a broadband router is a helluva lot simpler than
> iptables.
I don't understand much of this (yet) but it comes back to the fact that (I
feel) I have had convenience and ease of use with Windows, and I already have
(almost all of) the same level of convenience and ease of use in my Debian
installation, with this hardware. In fact with your comments that I should be
connected all the time, and Kevin's advice about how to configure that, I hope
to reach an even greater level of ease of use with Debian.
Coming back to what you have written though, it sounds like I'm not really
aware of what types of attack I might be vulnerable to with my current setup,
running Linux. Since I imagine that could be quite a big topic please feel
free to just provide a link rather than take up more of your time explaining
stuff (but if you want to explain that would be great). On Windows I used a
software firewall (ZoneAlarm), does this concept not transfer to Linux? I was
kind of hoping it didn't simply because Unix's intrinsic security made
firewalls unnecessary – wishful thinking?
(Aside: I tried to look up what SPI stands for, but Wikipedia lists at least 4
different things in the field of computer networking! Is it System Packet
Interface, Security Parameter Index, Service Package Interpreter, Stateful
Package Inspection?)
Kevin Ross:
> If you want to have your connection be established on bootup, the "Debian
> way" is to add your PPP connection to your /etc/network/interfaces file,
> like:
Thanks for that Kevin, I will definitely be trying this as my next line of
attack (when I have more time to spend on it). I will post back to the group
with the result.
> Then, in your ppp options, add the "persist" option, which will cause your
> connection to automatically reconnect should the connection be lost. Remove
> any "demand", "idle", or "holdoff" options.
I already have the 'persist' option. It was mentioned in the instructions I
found to get the DSL modem working in the first place with pon and poff.
> For security, you'll want to add a firewall. I use shorewall myself, and
> like it.
Thanks, I will look this up.
> That's how I had it setup before I switched to a DSL provider that used DHCP
> instead of PPPoE.
My current ISP uses DHCP – does that change anything you've written?
> Hope this helps!
It definitely sounds like it will, thanks.
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Re: PPP / ADSL / demand / GUI prompt question
Klistvud: > Well, another, quite intuitive way of achieving what you want would be > to write a script to launch Iceweasel Good idea, should have thought of that myself. On reflection though, although my guests will only want to use iceweasel, I occasionally use other internet programs such as ftp, filezilla and even telnet and ping, so that would still not be as useful as demand dialling, or being connected all the time as you later suggest. Kevin Ross: > Are you absolutely sure of that?.ISP's mainly use two different methods of > assigning IP addresses to their customers. DHCP or PPPoE. If your ISP uses > PPPoE, then you need to use pppd with a PPPoE plugin. If they use DHCP, > then you don't use pppd at all. You just use a DHCP client on your > machiine. Using pppd won't work at all. No not absolutely sure, I just assumed that was what was being used as I get different IP addresses every time I connect. I am pretty sure pppd IS working, which from what you write suggests I am not using DHCP. However I vaguely remember that when I was getting the link to work I read that I was using something called pppoa rather than pppoe, and indeed putting the following line in my /etc/ppp/peers/provider file was important to getting the link working: plugin pppoatm.so 0.38 (My provider is Tiscali in the U.K.) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: PPP / ADSL / demand / GUI prompt question
--- On Sun, 11/1/09, Stan Hoeppner wrote: > stephen...@yahoo.com > put forth on 11/1/2009 3:19 AM: > > No not absolutely sure, I just assumed... > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point-to-Point_Protocol_over_ATM > > By saying > "DHCP" for all dynamic IP allocations, you're in essence > doing what my > father does when he uses "DSL" to refer to cable modem, > satellite, and > FIOS. He just can't grasp the difference (or just > doesn't care). > > He's 72, so I guess you just can't teach some old dogs new > tricks. Perhaps I was being a bit self-deprecatory in my previous message as I had actually worked out what pppoatm stood for, although I hadn't (and haven't) read the Wikipedia page for it. Perhaps I should explain that although I used to work with computers, I have not done so for over six years (I now program a different type of machine, aged 11-16). Perhaps I was exposed to a limited range of technologies, or perhaps things have changed since I left the industry, but either way it is clear that although I knew what DHCP was, I was mistaken to assume it was synonymous with dynamic IP address assignment, which was what I meant when I told Kevin that I was using DHCP. Insofar as my incorrect use of acronyms has caused irritation / unnecessary posts / made it harder for people to help me, I apologise (and will try to avoid such assumptions in future posts). Outside the confines of this list however, I'm afraid I'm probably with your father! To end with a technical question for anybody who can answer: does the fact that I'm using PPP over ATM have any bearing on why the 'demand' line in my provider file does not work properly? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
RE: PPP / ADSL / demand / GUI prompt question
--- On Sat, 10/31/09, Kevin Ross wrote: > If you want to have your connection > be established on bootup, the "Debian > way" is to add your PPP connection to your > /etc/network/interfaces file, > like: > > auto ppp0 > iface ppp0 inet ppp > provider dsl-provider This worked perfectly - I now fire up iceweasel as soon as I log in, and I see the internet straight away. Thanks! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
RE: PPP / ADSL / demand / GUI prompt question
--- On Tue, 11/3/09, stephen...@yahoo.com wrote: > --- On Sat, 10/31/09, Kevin Ross wrote: > > > If you want to have your connection > > be established on bootup, the "Debian > > way" is to add your PPP connection to your > > /etc/network/interfaces file, > > like: > > > > auto ppp0 > > iface ppp0 inet ppp > > provider dsl-provider > > This worked perfectly - I now fire up iceweasel as soon as > I log in, and I see the internet straight away. > Thanks! Just to update this old thread a bit: actually this didn't work perfectly, it only worked when I started up Linux when the PC was already switched on beforehand. When switching the PC on from cold and booting into Linux, it did not work, I think because it was trying to talk to the ADSL modem before the modem was ready. So following a suggestion on another web page I found, instead of doing the above, I put the following line in my /etc/inittab: s1:23:respawn:/usr/sbin/pppd call This seems to have solved the problem, but there is one minor niggle left: when this line in inittab is being processed, pppd seems to crash out the first few times it is started - I assume for the same reason mentioned above, i.e. the ADSL modem is not yet ready - and this causes an error that it is "respawning too fast" and will be put on hold for 5 minutes (I don't have the exact text of the message). Somehow though it is managing to get pppd running because when I log in, iceweasel can connect to the internet straight away. I can probably work out a way to put in a delay between each respawn to stop this message, but if anyone has a good idea or knows the 'right' way to do this I'd be grateful. Thanks in advance. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: PPP / ADSL / demand / GUI prompt question
Thanks Stan but my modem is powered from the PC - it has no other power supply. (Here is a picture of the model I have, which I found on the internet: http://www.sbazar.cz/img/big/74/2917974_1.jpg ). And I wouldn't like to leave the PC on all the time, I don't think its power would be negligible, its fans make plenty of noise even when I am not doing anything on it. The PC is nearly 8 years old and has an Athlon CPU. You may be relieved to hear though that I am thinking of changing to an ISP who will give me a wireless hub when I join up :-) --- On Wed, 12/23/09, Stan Hoeppner wrote: > > > --- On Tue, 11/3/09, stephen...@yahoo.com > > wrote: > > > This seems to have solved the problem, but there is > one minor niggle left: when this line in inittab is being > processed, pppd seems to crash out the first few times it is > started - I assume for the same reason mentioned above, i.e. > the ADSL modem is not yet ready - and this causes an error > that it is "respawning too fast" and will be put on hold for > 5 minutes (I don't have the exact text of the > message). Somehow though it is managing to get pppd > running because when I log in, iceweasel can connect to the > internet straight away. > > > > I can probably work out a way to put in a delay > between each respawn to stop this message, but if anyone has > a good idea or knows the 'right' way to do this I'd be > grateful. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > Why power off your modem? Just leave it on all the > time like most other people > do. Mine is on 24x7x365 and has been for many many > years. No problems. DSL > modem power consumption is in the single digit watt range > if not down in the > milli watt range, depending on model. I.e. you won't > see any difference on your > electric bill. For that matter, leaving your PC on > all the time probably won't > be noticeable either. > > -- > Stan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: PPP / ADSL / demand / GUI prompt question
--- On Thu, 12/24/09, Kevin Ross wrote: > Try adding "maxfail 0" to your config file. Thanks for this suggestion. I have added the 'maxfail 0' line to my provider file but it does not seem to have solved the problem. When I boot into Linux from cold, iceweasel cannot connect to the internet and 'ps' shows that pppd is not running. But when I boot into Linux when the machine is already switched on, pppd manages to stay up and iceweasel can connect straight away. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
