Re: Thunderbird not allowing local accounts
On Wed, 5 Jan 2022 11:58:09 -0500 Celejar wrote: > On Wed, 5 Jan 2022 09:44:24 -0500 > "Paul M. Foster" wrote: > > ... > > > Thanks for the info. Mozilla Foundation is seriously annoying me > > lately. > > > > Can anyone recommend another MUA which uses mbox format and is > > relatively easy to configure? > > Sylpheed? > > Celejar > It's starting to look that way. Actually, I'm looking at claws-mail. -- Paul M. Foster http://noferblatz.com http://quillandmouse.com
Re: Thunderbird not allowing local accounts
On Thu, 6 Jan 2022 15:26:23 + Brad Rogers wrote: > On Thu, 06 Jan 2022 15:19:27 + > "Jeremy Nicoll" wrote: > > Hello Jeremy, > > >but other servers that use OAuth2 - notably Microsoft ones - > >regularly revoke users' access tokens and the users currently have > >to set those > > Not using oauth myself, I'd failed to do more than simply glance at > some of those messages as it' not really of interest to me. Having > just read a few in more of those messages in depth, that certainly > seem to be the case. What a palaver. The cynic in me says they're > doing this to discourage non-preferred software from being used. > That's not cynicism, it's realism. Microsoft alone has been doing this kind of thing for decades. Case in point: when I switched from Thunderbird to Claws-Mail, I had to sign into my Google account and okay the use of this "new" email client, before I could fetch my gmail mail in Claws-Mail. Including two factor authentication on my cell phone. The only way I knew to do that was because my wife had had to go through it earlier on her Mac. Paul -- Paul M. Foster http://noferblatz.com http://quillandmouse.com
Re: Just curious if there's anybody out there still using LXDE?
On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 14:45:04 -0600 "c. marlow" wrote: > Are there any LXDE users STILL out there? > > Today, I have been having this discussion on Debian's Reddit about > LXDE and it's future. > > Even though LXDE is DEAD when it comes to development and adding new > features, I just learned today that LXDE just got a update for > LXterminal just a month or so ago. So LXDE is still getting small bug > fixes from time to time. > > I have LXDE installed on a separate user... Meaning I created a new > account and then installed LXDE from that account. So my CHRIS account > is strictly used with GNOME and the LXDE account is strictly used for > LXDE. > > I guess that its good to have SOMETHING installed as a backup just in > case Gnome takes a poop. > I used to use it, as it was one of the "slimest" desktops and I don't want a lot of graphical glitz. Then I found and switched to i3, and now I use LXDE as a backup, in case i3 takes a dump or something. There are probably a lot more packages like this out there. I use MOC for playing music, and I don't think it's been updated (upstream) in years. Paul -- Paul M. Foster http://noferblatz.com http://quillandmouse.com
Re: mailutils-pop3d not able to get it working
On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 16:39:22 +0100 Franco Martelli wrote: > Hi, > > I posted a question on Debian User Forums [1]. What I need is to read > my user mailbox (/var/mail/myuser) via a pop3 daemon, is it possible? > How to accomplish this? > > Thanks in advance > > [1] https://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=151251 I use popa3d. It assumes email addresses of myuser@mydomain, with the same email password as the user's password on the system. No setup required. User billw on clifford.mydomain has an email of billw@clifford.mydomain and he uses the same password as his user on clifford.mydomain. Paul -- Paul M. Foster http://noferblatz.com http://quillandmouse.com
Re: mailutils-pop3d not able to get it working
On Wed, 26 Jan 2022 13:55:46 +0100 Franco Martelli wrote: > On 26/01/22 at 03:39, pa...@quillandmouse.com wrote: > > > > I use popa3d. It assumes email addresses of myuser@mydomain, with > > the same email password as the user's password on the system. No > > setup required. User billw on clifford.mydomain has an email of > > billw@clifford.mydomain and he uses the same password as his user on > > clifford.mydomain. > > > > Paul > > > Does popa3d require to setup TLS? I didn't need to encrypt the email > a mail server that it listens to 110 port it is fine for me. > As far as I know, there's no encryption. Paul -- Paul M. Foster http://noferblatz.com http://quillandmouse.com
Re: Mini server hardware for home use NAS purposes
On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 15:11:57 +0100 Christian Britz wrote: > Inspired by my previous attempts to implent NFS on my Synology NAS, I > am thinking about buying a mini server where I install Debian to > serve as file share (SMB and NFS) and DLNA server. > > It should fully support Debian Stable, have a low price but be capable > of performing the tasks well, ideally have working WIFI, be silent, > low-power and small. > > Do you have any recommendations for me? > I'd suggest a Raspberry Pi 4B. The requirements you listed elsewhere would make this a cheap and workable alternative. The only issue is that any SATA disks would have to be run through a USB 3 port. Using an SSD might mitigate any lag. I use one of these with a laptop drive in a Geekworm case to be the web server on my LAN. My wife an I have NFS and Samba access to the drive as well. You can run Raspberry Pi OS (a Debian derivative) on it. Matter of fact, I think you can run the various media server packages on such a rig as well. Paul -- Paul M. Foster http://noferblatz.com http://quillandmouse.com
Re: Mini server hardware for home use NAS purposes
On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 16:42:14 -0500 Henning Follmann wrote: > > And we can do one better: > the raspi compute module and the cm IO board. > here you will get a PCIe socket which then can take up > a SATA controller. > Can you recommend a tiny PCIe SATA controller to go in there, and possibly a case to fit it all (with laptop/SSD drive)? Paul -- Paul M. Foster http://noferblatz.com http://quillandmouse.com
Re: ISS is running GNU Linux Debian :)
On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 21:39:02 +0100 dude wrote: > > International Space Station adopts Debian Linux, drops Windows & Red > Hat into airlock X-D > > https://www.computerweekly.com/blog/Open-Source-Insider/International-Space-Station-adopts-Debian-Linux-drops-Windows-Red-Hat-into-airlock > > I read the article, not paying attention to the date, and was aghast that it said they were running Debian 6. I started to compose an email to the list about it, then looked back at the article. It's from 2013. Paul -- Paul M. Foster http://noferblatz.com http://quillandmouse.com
Re: Simple and secure blogging software for nginx
On Thu, 10 Mar 2022 22:06:34 +0100 Christian Britz wrote: > Dear community, > > I am looking for recommendations for setting up a blog with nginx web > server. What I have so far: nginx-light with static pages. > > What would I need to be able to host a blog? I search something as > simple and secure as possible, there will be very low traffic. It > should be available directly from the Debian stable repository. From > what I understand, nginx supports php like apache, so the solutions > are inter-changeable (if I would choose something php-based)? > > Thank you, > Christian > I wrote PHP blog software for myself, which is server-agnostic. See, for example, http://noferblatz.com which is my blog. The software is at https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster/grotblog . Its features are: 1. You write your own entries on your local machine in HTML or markdown. 2. You upload your entries to the website via the admin interface. 3. If you know CSS and/or HTML, you may customize the look of your site all you like. 4. Your entries are stored as text files, not in a database. 5. Should you say politically incorrect things and have someone shut your blog down or hack it, you can reconstruct your blog rather easily somewhere else. 6. You can easily add "static" pages, like your resume. More detail on the Gitlab page. It's not for everyone, but if you find it useful, let me know. Paul -- Paul M. Foster http://noferblatz.com http://quillandmouse.com
Re: Simple and secure blogging software for nginx
On Thu, 10 Mar 2022 22:14:18 +0100 Christian Britz wrote: > > > On 2022-03-10 22:09 UTC+0100, Kevin Exton wrote: > > You need a blogging CMS like WordPress, or alternatively some kind > > of static site generator like GatsbyJS. Not sure what is or isn't > > in the Debian repositories though... > > Thank you, I allow my self to reply on the list. > I heard that WordPress is very common, but I fear it might be > oversized for my public diary about moving to a new town, which I > plan to write. And it is very often in the news with security > holes... Don't want some bad person to manipulate my cute tiny Raspi, > now that it has finally moved to pure Debian. ;-) > > I want the solution to be in the repository to benefit from > unattended-upgrades. > I've worked with WordPress. It is a beast. You are correct, it is vastly overkill for your purposes. I haven't looked at static site generators, except for Hugo. Hugo claims to be easy to use, but there is a steeper learning curve than you'd expect. Paul -- Paul M. Foster http://noferblatz.com http://quillandmouse.com
Copying one drive to a smaller one.
Folks: Situation: I have a 500G boot drive (root, swap, home) I'd like to copy to a new 250G drive which must then also be bootable (yes, there's enough room). This are EFI drives. I can use "dd", but I don't know the proper parameters, and as I understand it, copying a 500G to a 250G drive is Bad(tm). I could use "rsync", but I don't think the second 250G drive will boot just because I copied the files over to it. I suspect I would have an additional step needed to make the drive bootable. Can someone outline the proper procedure here? Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Copying one drive to a smaller one.
On Mon, 9 May 2022 11:54:16 -0700 David Christensen wrote: > On 5/8/22 18:54, pa...@quillandmouse.com wrote: > > Folks: > > > > Situation: I have a 500G boot drive (root, swap, home) I'd like to > > copy to a new 250G drive which must then also be bootable (yes, > > there's enough room). This are EFI drives. I can use "dd", but I > > don't know the proper parameters, and as I understand it, copying a > > 500G to a 250G drive is Bad(tm). I could use "rsync", but I don't > > think the second 250G drive will boot just because I copied the > > files over to it. I suspect I would have an additional step needed > > to make the drive bootable. > > > > Can someone outline the proper procedure here? > > > Resizing and moving a Debian instance from a 500 GB drive to a 250 GB > drive requires a lot of expertise. > > > I would take the KISS approach -- backup the system configuration > files and data, remove the 500 GB drive, install the 250 GB drive, do > a fresh install onto the 250 GB drive, and reconfigure/ restore. > Unfortunately, this is precisely what I was trying to avoid. For example, to accommodate the graphics on my CPU, I had to use a later kernel from backports. That's one of many wrinkles. Under other circumstances, I probably would do as you advise, but I'm limited on time and was trying to find a shortcut. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Copying one drive to a smaller one.
On Tue, 10 May 2022 07:28:02 +0200 DdB wrote: > Hi, > > Am 09.05.2022 um 20:54 schrieb David Christensen: > > Resizing and moving a Debian instance from a 500 GB drive to a 250 > > GB drive requires a lot of expertise. > > I fully agree. And i am missing some information from the OP: > > Was the 500 GB drive UEFI already? Yes. > Will both drives live on the same computer ever? No. The original problem is this: The 500G drive has too small a root partition and also has the home partition on the same drive. I want to expand the root partition, and separate the home partition off to another drive. I don't need much for root-- 250G is more than enough (actually 64G would be plenty, but it's hard to find SSDs that small). > > If the answers would be yes to 1 and no to second, that would allow > reusing the UUID's, which can be manipulated (on the new disk) with > sgdisk. But of course, since that involves some kind of "hacking", i > recommend to create some understanding along the disk format > necessities for UEFI booting first, like from > https://www.rodsbooks.com/ pages. > > My goal would be to manipulate the target to come very close to the > source, except for the partitioning/fs layout, in order to prepare > for a successful rsync for ALL (except swap, but including ESP) > partitions. mkswap has a -U switch too. :-) > For all but the boot mechanism, copying files from source to destination via rsync should work. For ext4, files are files. It's the boot mechanism that can get tricky. That's what I'm unsure about. The plan is/was to partition the new 250G drive exactly as I want it, and then copy the individual pieces (root, /boot, swap) to the drive. Then figure out/work out the boot process so I can stick it in and boot from that drive. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Copying one drive to a smaller one.
On Tue, 10 May 2022 19:13:55 +0200 DdB wrote: > Booting UEFI requires different things: (detailed descriptions on > rodsbook site) > Proper subdir/entry in ESP (could be reused from old disk) > Proper entry in NVRAM (Can be read and changed with efibootmgr) > If i were you, i would prepare for emergency rescuing the system in > case of havoc. For example the refind iso is capable of booting a > system without a proper NVRAM entry, in order to rescue, i recommend > preparing such an iso. > My plan was to start over with the original disk in the machine, if the new one won't boot. I'll be keeping the original disk unaltered in a safe place for a while in case of problems. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Permanent email address?
On Sun, 15 May 2022 10:08:57 -0400 rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: > I would like to have an email address that will be permanent, in > that, for example, I can move it from provider to provider as I > desire or need (if, for example, a provider goes out of business). > (And that gets my email out of google's control / reach.) Decades ago, when my wife and I set up our own company, we decided it would be unprofessional to have email addresses like pa...@juno.com and nan...@compuserve.com. So we secured a domain for the business and made our own email addresses under that domain. We've used those as our principle email addresses ever since. I've moved that domain to different registrars and hosting companies several times since. Costs are the initial setup (originally $35.00) and yearly domain re-registration (about $15). I have a gmail account as well, and I use either fetchmail or Claws-Mail to pick up my gmail messages. Unfortunately, some of my other accounts (like Youtube) rely on that email address. Can't move it, can't remove it. Strategically, Google = Microsoft = Adobe = Apple. Same crap, different brand. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Permanent email address?
On Sun, 15 May 2022 18:25:50 +0100 Brian wrote: > > Keep the gmail address and just forward from there to an address > ypu control. > If you know how to have gmail forward to some other address, I'd love to know how. I could avoid having to fetch directly from Google. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email
On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 13:59:45 -0400 rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: > On Thursday, June 02, 2022 11:13:14 AM nemo wrote: > > Me too except today it doesn't seem to be working. must test but I > > think I've been shut out, using Alpine with non-secure apps > > switched on. fjd > > My gmail (normally delivered by pop3 to my old version of kmail (on > Wheezy) stopped working around 8:30 am this morning. > > I set up an application specific password this morning, and that old > version of kmail (version 1.13.7 for kde 4.8.4 on Debian Wheezy) > works again using pop3 > > I had a little trouble setting it up until I got to the right place > in google -- I first tried to change the settings on the gmail > webclient page but couldn't find the correct options. Then logged in > on google.com and did find the correct option (Security), and then, > in general terms, turned on 2 step verification and eventually found > the option to set up an application specific password. > > I then entered that in place of the old passwords in kmail. (I don't > think it stated it -- I wasn't sure whether to enter the spaces as > part of the password or not -- I did, and that worked.) > I had this same problem starting about the same time. I was in the middle of another project and didn't have time to deal with it. Claw-Mail was issuing error alerts every 10 minutes as it would try to fetch gmail. However, as of about 30 minutes ago, it is now working again, and I did nothing to it. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Printing the old way
Folks: Back in the dark days of early Linux, before CUPS, we printed with printers all the time. There was an infrastructure for doing this. Does anyone remember how that worked? As in, what packages were needed, etc.? Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Virtualization anomalies
Folks: I'm running an Intel Core i3, model 10100. According to Intel's spec sheet on their site, this CPU has VT-x (virtualization) support. From what I've read, this shows up in "lscpu" as the "vmx" flag. When I run lscpu on this chip, that flag doesn't show up. As a result, I can't run any of the virtualization options (virt-manager, etc.). (As a point of reference, an older CPU I had in a different machine (6th gen i5) *did* show this flag when I ran lscpu.) I'd like to upgrade the CPU to a model which does support virtualization. But I'm afraid I'll just end up with another chip which Intel says works with virtualization, and lscpu says doesn't. Can anyone explain this discrepancy, or provide insights? Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Virtualization anomalies
On Wed, 27 Jul 2022 23:17:33 +0200 Nicolas George wrote: > Have you checked if virtualization is disabled in the setup? IIRC many > systems disable it by default because it is supposed to make rootkits > more dangerous or something. Can you clarify "in the setup"? Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Virtualization anomalies
On Thu, 28 Jul 2022 09:41:51 +1000 David wrote: > On Thu, 28 Jul 2022 at 07:35, wrote: > > On Wed, 27 Jul 2022 23:17:33 +0200 Nicolas George > > wrote: > > > > Have you checked if virtualization is disabled in the setup? IIRC > > > many systems disable it by default because it is supposed to make > > > rootkits more dangerous or something. > > > > Can you clarify "in the setup"? > > They're referring to the machine's hardware BIOS/UEFI configuration. > The very first thing you can access when powering up the machine. > Usually it offers: press some key to access some configuration menu. > Where there's often a facility to enable/disable the CPU > virtualisation feature. > Thanks for the clarification. I'll check. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Virtualization anomalies
On Thu, 28 Jul 2022 09:41:51 +1000 David wrote: > They're referring to the machine's hardware BIOS/UEFI configuration. > The very first thing you can access when powering up the machine. > Usually it offers: press some key to access some configuration menu. > Where there's often a facility to enable/disable the CPU > virtualisation feature. Well, you were correct. I had to search around for it, but virtualization was turned off in the BIOS. Thanks. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Getting PHP to work with Apache on other directories
Folks: I just installed Debian testing. I do PHP development. I host live websites at /var/www/html and development sites at /home/paulf/public_html. I have Apache configured so that localhost/~paulf/ gets me to the sites at /home/paulf/public_html. I have an index.html and a script to test PHP functionality in both locations. The phpinfo.php script consists of http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Getting PHP to work with Apache on other directories
On Wed, 14 Sep 2022 08:51:56 -0700 Paul Scott wrote: > On 9/14/22 06:49, pa...@quillandmouse.com wrote: > > Folks: > > > > I just installed Debian testing. I do PHP development. I host live > > websites at /var/www/html and development sites at > > /home/paulf/public_html. I have Apache configured so that > > localhost/~paulf/ gets me to the sites at /home/paulf/public_html. > > > > I have an index.html and a script to test PHP functionality in both > > locations. The phpinfo.php script consists of > > > All of this works fine in both locations with straight HTML pages. > > And it works fine for PHP pages at /var/www/html. However, when I > > try to access the phpinfo.php script at ~/public_html, I get a > > blank page and the Apache log gives a 304 error (I've refreshed the > > cache in Firefox). The php.ini config file has "open_basedir=", so > > that it should function in any directory. And just for testing, the > > phpinfo.php script at ~/public_html has permissions 777. > > > > Can anyone explain this, and how to fix it? > > I was just there. > > Comment out the last 5 lines of /etc/apache2/mods-enabled/phpX.conf > > where X is your version of PHP Excellent catch. Works as advertised. Many thanks. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Anacron job output/email
Folks: I have a Raspberry Pi (Raspberry Pi OS = Debian version 11.5) which runs a backup daily via a file called /etc/cron.daily/backup. This file generates copious output, which should get emailed to root. The backup script ran this morning at 06:25, as predicted. I know this because it created a timestamp file at the end of its backup, and that file indicates it ran on schedule. However, there is no email containing its output. I checked the contents of /var/mail, and there's no output. FWIW, when run manually, it generates the aforementioned output. I haven't tampered with anacron other than to add the script to the directory above. Can anyone give me a clue why the output of the script would fail to generate an email for me? Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Anacron job output/email
On Tue, 4 Oct 2022 08:21:20 -0600 Charles Curley wrote: > On Tue, 4 Oct 2022 09:11:59 -0400 > wrote: > > > Can anyone give me a clue why the output of the script > > would fail to generate an email for me? > > Do you have a mail transport agent (MTA) such as postfix or exim > installed? > Yes, Exim4, properly configured. As I mentioned, the email which should have been generated did finally arrive, 3 hours later. Go figure. -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Anacron job output/email
On Tue, 4 Oct 2022 15:25:29 +0100 debian-u...@howorth.org.uk wrote: > > Folks: > > > > I have a Raspberry Pi (Raspberry Pi OS = Debian version 11.5) which > > runs a backup daily via a file called /etc/cron.daily/backup. This > > file generates copious output, which should get emailed to root. The > > backup script ran this morning at 06:25, as predicted. I know this > > because it created a timestamp file at the end of its backup, and > > that file indicates it ran on schedule. However, there is no email > > containing its output. I checked the contents of /var/mail, and > > there's no output. FWIW, when run manually, it generates the > > aforementioned output. > > > > I haven't tampered with anacron other than to add the script to the > > directory above. Can anyone give me a clue why the output of the > > script would fail to generate an email for me? > > Have you installed mail on the pi? It's not there by default. You may > find messages in the journal about discarding the output if so, or > which may indicate another cause if not. > See my reply to a previous poster. Yes, Exim4 is installed and configured. And works. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Cheap NAS
Folks: This has likely already been covered, but I don't know a way to search the archives for it. I'm interested in a desktop NAS with maybe 4 bays, which works with Linux (and free software), isn't hugely expensive, and is *not* a PC (you could do a NAS with a PC). Any suggestions would be helpful. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Cheap NAS
On Thu, 13 Oct 2022 16:10:46 -0400 Dan Ritter wrote: > pa...@quillandmouse.com wrote: > > Folks: > > > > This has likely already been covered, but I don't know a way to > > search the archives for it. > > > > I'm interested in a desktop NAS with maybe 4 bays, which works with > > Linux (and free software), isn't hugely expensive, and is *not* a PC > > (you could do a NAS with a PC). > > > > Any suggestions would be helpful. > > What does "cheap" mean to you? $200 to $300 would be nice, but the cheaper the better. Some of the more well known NASes cost $500 to $1000, which is excessive for a box with CPU and some drive bays. > > What does "not a PC" mean to you, and why? > The power and space requirements for even a mini-tower case are excessive for this application. A NUC form factor would work, but they don't have four or more SATA ports. Actually, the most important requirement is that I can install my own Linux OS on it, rather than put up with some proprietary NAS software. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Cheap NAS
On Fri, 14 Oct 2022 04:43:59 +0800 Bret Busby wrote: > On 14/10/22 04:10, Dan Ritter wrote: > > pa...@quillandmouse.com wrote: > >> Folks: > >> > >> This has likely already been covered, but I don't know a way to > >> search the archives for it. > >> > >> I'm interested in a desktop NAS with maybe 4 bays, which works with > >> Linux (and free software), isn't hugely expensive, and is *not* a > >> PC (you could do a NAS with a PC). > >> > >> Any suggestions would be helpful. > > > > What does "cheap" mean to you? > > > > What does "not a PC" mean to you, and why? > > > > -dsr- > > > > And, as it is hardware that is sought, What is the location? > > What is available in one country, might not be available in another > country. > > And, what may be not "hugely expensive" in one country, may be > otherwise, in another country. > > Like the friendly little robot (Number four?), is known for saying, > "More input!" > Fair points, Mate. Location: U.S. Other countries would involve excessive shipping and delays. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Cheap NAS
On Thu, 13 Oct 2022 18:38:54 -0400 Dan Ritter wrote: > pa...@quillandmouse.com wrote: > > On Thu, 13 Oct 2022 16:10:46 -0400 > > Dan Ritter wrote: > > > > > pa...@quillandmouse.com wrote: > > > > Folks: > > > > > > > > This has likely already been covered, but I don't know a way to > > > > search the archives for it. > > > > > > > > I'm interested in a desktop NAS with maybe 4 bays, which works > > > > with Linux (and free software), isn't hugely expensive, and is > > > > *not* a PC (you could do a NAS with a PC). > > > > > > > > Any suggestions would be helpful. > > > > > > What does "cheap" mean to you? > > > > $200 to $300 would be nice, but the cheaper the better. Some of the > > more well known NASes cost $500 to $1000, which is excessive for a > > box with CPU and some drive bays. > > > > > > > > What does "not a PC" mean to you, and why? > > > > > > > The power and space requirements for even a mini-tower case are > > excessive for this application. A NUC form factor would work, but > > they don't have four or more SATA ports. > > > > Actually, the most important requirement is that I can install my > > own Linux OS on it, rather than put up with some proprietary NAS > > software. > > So what you actually want is the smallest possible system that > will hold 4x3.5" disks and get that through a gigabit NIC, for > less than $300. Well, a NAS with removable bays is pretty sexy IMO. But by the looks of units made for that purpose, the expense seems a bit excessive. > > You should look for a used HP Microserver. A sufficiently old, > beat-up unit will easily fit into your desires for space and > money. > Yikes, those are expensive new. E-Bay prices are much more reasonable. > However, you won't be able to repair much if it goes wrong, and > the power supply is the first thing to go. > > In the alternative: here's https://pcpartpicker.com/list/fzq49r > > - $255 plus RAM and disks. You can get 16GB and still fit under > $300. > - 2 core Intel Celeron, will run Debian nicely (or FreeNAS, or > whatever.) > - Cooler Master 130 mini-ITX case is as small as you can get and > still fit 4 disks. In this instance, 1 x 2.5", 3x 3.5" and a 5.25" > slot that will fit a fourth 3.5" disk with a $4 adapter. > 15.7" x 9.5" x 8.2" > Thanks for the link. It's a place to start. I like the case a lot. Incidentally, the ultimate purpose for this rig is about a thousand DVDs and Blu-rays. Otherwise, I have no need for this kind of capacity. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Cheap NAS
On Sun, 16 Oct 2022 10:11:50 -0400 Wayne Sallee wrote: > What about just putting some drives in a desktop, and installing some > free nas software like https://linuxhint.com/best-nas-software-linux > It's possible, but it sort of violates the size and power requirements in my scenario. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Cheap NAS
On Sun, 16 Oct 2022 19:21:05 +0500 Stanislav Vlasov wrote: > 2022-10-16 19:11 GMT+05:00, Wayne Sallee : > > What about just putting some drives in a desktop, and installing > > some free nas software like > > https://linuxhint.com/best-nas-software-linux > > OpenMediaVault work fine even on Orange Pi 3 LTS with usb drives. > Pi's don't have SATA. They can run SATA over USB. However, with 9 TB of storage of media files, I'm afraid this would throttle my access to storage. FWIW, I do use a Pi with a laptop drive to run my LAN web server. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Cheap NAS
On Sun, 16 Oct 2022 23:04:03 +0500 Stanislav Vlasov wrote: > 2022-10-16 21:58 GMT+05:00, Andrew M.A. Cater : > >> > What about just putting some drives in a desktop, and installing > >> > some free > >> > nas software like > >> > https://linuxhint.com/best-nas-software-linux > >> > >> OpenMediaVault work fine even on Orange Pi 3 LTS with usb drives. > > > > USB connected drives work fine - until they don't ... I learned > > that the hard way 15 years ago [LVM done that way and you'd lose a > > drive ...]. > > I know. Mitigate it by installing all to wooden board and don't use > LVM on external drives. > Orange Pi 3 LTS does not have another interfaces for really big > non-network drives, only one usb3.0 (up to 100-110MB/s on my hdd > drives, does not test on ssd) and two usb2.0 (up to 30MB/s) > It's also worth noting: on my setup with a spinning rust laptop drive hooked via USB 3 to my RPi, the drive doesn't spin continuously (apparently). So on occasional use, I wait a couple of seconds for the drive to spin up before it can transfer at full speed. It's possible an SSD would solve this, but I had the laptop drive around already. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: is Ansible easy to use?
On Thu, 20 Oct 2022 15:39:23 +0200 Philipp Ewald wrote: > Hi folks, > > is ansible a easy way to configure customized hosts? > First try, its super complicated for me. > > Trying to create multiple files with content. It takes more time to > create the playbook then creating this file by hand (this damn syntax > acomplicates everything more) Then formatting is destroyed or need > more time on creating the playbook... > > It is so hard or im so bad? You might be bad (joke), but so is ansible. Actually, ansible is a great tool. It's flexible and can do almost anything. But the learning curve is steep. It's finicky about syntax, as you noted. I investigated a few of these packages, particularly ansible, a while back. When you look at how they work, they mostly operate the same way underneath all the syntax. I got tired of trying to work all this out and wrote my own configuration manager in bash, since I'm mostly familiar with bash syntax. You can try other alternatives like cfengine, but I suspect ansible is the most capable. Worst case, you can write a series of scripts using bash and rsync and ssh, and accomplish what you want without having to learn a whole new toolkit. Of course, if your job is a system administrator and you do this all the time with a lot of machines, I'd advise fully studying ansible and using it instead. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
System Font
Folks: Typically, I use i3wm, but I just got through sampling Plasma. Somehow it has reduced/changed what I guess I'd call my "system font". This shows up in Firefox menus, Claws-Mail menus and others. I don't really care about the font, but the size must be increased. The following is the rundown of my fonts, from fc-match: serif: DejaVuSerif.ttf: "DejaVu Serif" "Book" sans-serif: DejaVuSans.ttf: "DejaVu Sans" "Book" monospace: DejaVuSansMono.ttf: "DejaVu Sans Mono" "Book" Arial: LiberationSans-Regular.ttf: "Liberation Sans" "Regular" Helvetica: NimbusSans-Regular.otf: "Nimbus Sans" "Regular" Verdana: DejaVuSans.ttf: "DejaVu Sans" "Book" Times New Roman: LiberationSerif-Regular.ttf: "Liberation Serif" "Regular" Courier New: LiberationMono-Regular.ttf: "Liberation Mono" "Regular" My ~/.config/fontconfig/fonts.conf has nothing about the above in it. I'm running Debian testing. I'd like to know what file or files specify font size and such, and/or how to fix this. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: support for ancient peripherals
On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 17:44:58 + "Kleene, Steven (kleenesj)" wrote: > Here's a more remedial question. I haven't bought a desktop in 16 > years. To have a custom desktop built with some of the options I've > seen recommended here, where would you go? Would you patronize a > local shop, or is there an online store that is good at discussing > and implementing customizations? I am not an expert when it comes to > hardware. > I'm a software guy, not a hardware guy. I built a few PCs back in the 90s and early 2000s, but things have changed a lot. I recently decided to build my own box without any advice. I used https://pcpartpicker.com/ to good effect. It tends to know what parts go together, and they show you who has the best price on parts you select, often Amazon. To save money, I'd go with older parts, like 9th or 10th generation Intel CPUs, DDR4 or DDR5 memory, etc. If you go Intel, don't use the coolers their CPUs come with. They're crap, IMO. It gets tricky when you have to select a motherboard, since each manufacturer has a range, and they're specialized for different use cases. The other advantage of older generation hardware is that it's more likely to work with Linux. Unless you're doing intense gaming or video rendering, you won't notice a performance difference. Also, building it yourself will save you $300 to $1000. I've found local PC builders don't do Linux machines. And the ones you can get from online builders are expensive. Also, beware of older, used machines you can get on E-Bay. HP, Dell and Lenovo like to use custom parts which are hard to replace. My last Lenovo ThinkCenter M800 had a power supply in it whose motherboard power connector was non-standard (meaning the motherboard power connector was non-standard as well). Anyway... Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: support for ancient peripherals
On Mon, 7 Nov 2022 15:15:27 + "Kleene, Steven (kleenesj)" wrote: > Thanks to all of you for your many detailed and helpful responses. I > think my next move will be to connect with my local Linux users group > (which I'm ashamed to say I've never done). I'll describe the > problem and see if they can suggest a good local shop. Wow, you actually have a LUG in your area? They've all but disappeared at this point. SVLUG was the biggest in the world at one time, and now doesn't even have their own website. Let us know what you find. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Sysstemd question
Folks: I've been reading up on systemd, both from Red Hat's documentation, Debian's and the man files. One thing I haven't been able to explain is why systemd has config files in /etc, /lib, /run, and /usr/lib. I also can't find in what order systemd scans these directories. Also, why it's necessary for there to be symlinks in /etc/systemd/system to files in /lib/systemd/system. These questions may be a bit too esoteric, but if anyone could explain, or point me to documentation, I'd appreciate it. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Sysstemd question
On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 11:04:39 -0500 Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Sat, Nov 12, 2022 at 10:41:15AM -0500, pa...@quillandmouse.com > wrote: > > Folks: > > > > I've been reading up on systemd, both from Red Hat's documentation, > > Debian's and the man files. One thing I haven't been able to > > explain is why systemd has config files in /etc, /lib, /run, and > > /usr/lib. > > /lib and /usr/lib are the same thing, or will be the same thing in a > future release. Don't worry about that. > > /run is transient. It's an in-memory file system, created and > populated at boot time, or by running programs. It's not a place for > configuration. > > So really you're looking at /etc vs. /usr/lib. > > /usr/lib contains the defaults created by the Debian maintainers or > the upstream authors. When you install a new package that has a > systemd unit file, that's where it'll go. > > /etc contains the overrides and configuration elements that are unique > to your system. If a service is masked or disabled, it'll be done > here. If you install a locally built service, and write a systemd > unit for it, this is where you'll put it. If you override part or > all of a package's unit file, you do it here. > Thanks for this excellent explanation. I wish the folks who write docs would try to explain things in English instead of geek-ese. I'm a programmer, and I try to keep this in mind whenever I write docs. That said, though, the Red Hat docs for systemd are pretty good. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Explaining snapshots (for backup)
On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 09:40:11 -0500 Dan Ritter wrote: > rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: > > I'm not really clear on the concept of a snapshot (for backup) -- > > I've done a little googling but haven't found an explanation that > > "satisfies" me. > > > > Starting from a beginning, I suppose I could copy the entire > > contents of whatever I wanted to make a snapshot of (by any of a > > variety of tools -- dd, cp, ...) and call that a snapshot, although > > the more common name for it would be a "full backup". > > Let's look at the larger circumstances. > > In ordinary usage, there are tens to thousands of processes > runnning on your system. Some of them are emitting logs or > writing files. > > Taking a backup takes some time. During that time, some files > get written, some get opened, and some are related to each other > (by the processes) in ways which are inconsistent until all of > them are written. > > A snapshot differs from a backup in two important regards: > > - first, it requires the filesystem to bring writes to a halt. > There is now a consistent view. > > - second, it doesn't actually copy things. It just records their > state and, when done, allows future writes to continue -- writes > which are not part of this snapshot. > > As a result, you can take a snapshot and then: > > - discard it (trivial) > > - look through it and copy off any file or group of files, thus > getting what they contained at the time of the snapshot, not the > what they contain now (excellent for recovering from an > accidental delete) > > - copy all of it off elsewhere, producing a consistent full > backup. > Assuming a snapshot is taken so that you can recover a filesystem to a previous state (or the current state). Is that correct? I don't understand "recording the state" of files. To me, this means the ownership, size, etc., not the contents. That doesn't seem valuable for recovering the state of a system. Let's assume, as the OP says, you do an original full backup. A snapshot ought to record either the contents of all the files which have changed, or record the delta of each file which has changed. Thus, you'd be able to recover a filesystem to either some prior state or its current state, using the snapshot. Am I missing something? Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: just saying
On Thu, 24 Nov 2022 16:05:31 -0500 Jeremy Hendricks wrote: > I have no idea what you mean. It’s open source and you can analyze > the code line by line. Does that include the blobs we're forced to run to make Nvidia cards run really well? I also have to wonder why Ubuntu (a Debian derivative) seems to be better at working on random hardware than straight Debian. Ever tried to run straight Debian on a Raspberry Pi? I just wonder how much of what makes these other distros work is proprietary blobs of code. I could be wrong; I'm not an OS developer. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: just saying
On Thu, 24 Nov 2022 20:11:15 -0500 Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 06:17:23PM -0500, pa...@quillandmouse.com > wrote: > > On Thu, 24 Nov 2022 16:05:31 -0500 > > Jeremy Hendricks wrote: > > > > > I have no idea what you mean. It’s open source and you can analyze > > > the code line by line. > > > > Does that include the blobs we're forced to run to make Nvidia cards > > run really well? > > No. > [snip] > > > I also have to wonder why Ubuntu (a Debian derivative) seems to be > > better at working on random hardware than straight Debian. > > Ubuntu and Debian have different policies regarding non-free firmware > and microcode. Debian does not include these in the official > installer, because they're not Free by Debian's definition. Ubuntu > has a more relaxed policy, and *does* include non-free firmware in its > installer. > [snip] This was sort of my point. Jeremy objected that open source was completely analyzable. And while this is true, it does require a certain expertise to do so. We trust our "experts" (as in, not me) to do that for us. However, my point was that, while FOSS is transparent, some or much of the code you're running may be closed source, like Nvidia's drivers and the graphics code for Broadcom Raspberry Pi chips. I don't object to Debian's stance on this; it's principled. But Ubuntu's policy points up that in order to live in the world of current hardware, it is sometimes necessary to use proprietary blobs, which are definitely *not* transparent. Not ideal, but there you have it. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Switching desktops at the command line
Folks: Assume some desktop environment like LXQt. Is there a way to change desktops (as in 1, 2, 3...) at the command line? I'm looking to use something like sxhkd to do this, but the only examples of this type of thing I can find are related to bspwm, which has its own infrastructure. Is there some Xorg or freedesktop type functionality I can use? Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Switching desktops at the command line
On Mon, 28 Nov 2022 16:34:56 -0500 wrote: > Folks: > > Assume some desktop environment like LXQt. Is there a way to change > desktops (as in 1, 2, 3...) at the command line? I'm looking to use > something like sxhkd to do this, but the only examples of this type of > thing I can find are related to bspwm, which has its own > infrastructure. Is there some Xorg or freedesktop type functionality I > can use? > > Paul > For those interested, you can install the "wmctrl" package, then run wmctrl -s . There might be a dbus command which does this, but I finally found the above and tested it. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: e-mail with line in body beginning with "From"
On Fri, 9 Dec 2022 20:39:34 -0600 Greg Marks wrote: > I occasionally send e-mail from the command line via Postfix, using a > script containing the command > >/usr/sbin/sendmail -oi -f -t < file > > In a recent instance, the body of the e-mail contained a line > beginning with the word "From"; the sendmail program prefixed the > line with the character ">" and a space (evidently interpreting > "From" as a header line that needed to be quoted). This was more > than just a trivial annoyance, since it rendered my digital signature > on the e-mail invalid. > > I think I encountered a similar problem a couple decades ago using the > "mail" command on a FreeBSD machine, but I don't remember any solution > to the problem. > > Is there a way to tell the Postfix sendmail command not to alter any > such lines in the body of the message? (I'm afraid I wasn't able to > discern an answer in the man page for sendmail or by searching the > postfix.org site.) > > Best regards, > Greg Marks You don't want to do this. Consider an MUA which stores your mail in "mbox" format-- one email right after another in one file. The delimiter is a line which starts at the left margin with the word "From". For this to work, any other line which starts with "From" must be "armored". And the way you do that is to precede it with "> ". I don't know the RFCs involved, but I'm guessing they mandate or suggest this treatment. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: e-mail with line in body beginning with "From"
On Sun, 11 Dec 2022 09:49:54 +1100 David wrote: > On Sat, 10 Dec 2022 at 19:05, wrote: > > On Fri, 9 Dec 2022 20:39:34 -0600 Greg Marks > > wrote: [snip] > > > I don't know the RFCs involved, but I'm guessing they mandate or > > suggest this treatment. > > Here's a reference describing 'mbox' format, which provides > reference RFCs: > https://manpages.debian.org/bullseye/mutt/mbox.5.en.html > Excellent reference. Just the thing. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Independent menu system
Folks: I prefer to run i3wm, but it has no native menu system. Like Openbox, GNOME, Plasma, etc. Does anyone know of a menu system/program which reads *.desktop files, and can supply categorized menus, but doesn't insist on being run under a non-i3wm desktop environment? Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Independent menu system
On Tue, 13 Dec 2022 19:10:21 -0500 Jeremy Hendricks wrote: > On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 7:09 PM wrote: > > > Folks: > > > > I prefer to run i3wm, but it has no native menu system. Like > > Openbox, GNOME, Plasma, etc. Does anyone know of a menu > > system/program which reads *.desktop files, and can supply > > categorized menus, but doesn't insist on being run under a non-i3wm > > desktop environment? > > > > Paul > > Maybe try running just the XFCE 4 panel > I guess I left out a requirement. i3wm has its own panel, which I like. What I'm looking for is a menu system, *without* an attached panel. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Independent menu system
On Wed, 14 Dec 2022 11:55:39 +0100 Pierre Tomon wrote: > > There is also jgmenu, fast, customizable, does not use toolkits but > cairo and pango to render the menu. Possibility to add widgets such as > search box. > > https://github.com/jgmenu/jgmenu > In the repo. > Yes, I found this. It appears to produce the same type of menu that other desktop environments provide, without their panels. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: stopping mass surveillance
On Wed, 14 Dec 2022 23:11:36 -0500 Jeffrey Walton wrote: > On Wed, Dec 14, 2022 at 9:13 PM Timothy M Butterworth > wrote: > > ... > > The USA does not have a constitutional right to privacy from the > > government. The only thing that comes close is the constitutional > > right requiring a warrant for search and seizure of documents and > > property. > > The Right to Privacy is case law. > > Griswold v. Connecticut (381 US 479 (1965)) - Supreme Court recognizes > a citizen's right to privacy. Privacy is found in the penumbra > (shadow) of 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 9th amendments. > (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqzhrFCQ-iU) > > Jeff > It's also worth noting that the Constitution does not comprehensively enumerate all a priori rights. It specifically states that those rights not enumerated are left to the states and/or to the people. Case law serves (in this case) to fill in the gaps left in the Constitution. It's also worth noting that the right to privacy is limited. The State has a vested interest in what goes on in your private life if you are engaging in illegal activities privately. And lastly, it's worth noting that this only obtains in the United States. Elsewhere there are few places where citizens actually are considered to have inalienable rights to things like free speech and privacy. Instead, such rights are typically granted by governments, despite what their citizens may think about their rights. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: [OT] The DIY D-Day A movement taking on the likes of Apple is winning a major battle for consumers.
On Tue, 3 Jan 2023 13:31:46 -0500 Jeffrey Walton wrote: > A good article on the Right to Repair in the US in general, and New > York in particular. For New Yorkers, the state has a comprehensive law > going into effect on July 1, 2023. New Yorkers will have reasonable > priced access to tools, parts, and manuals required to fix their > devices. > > https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/12/the-right-to-repair-movements-biggest-battle.html?utm_source=pocket-newtab > Haven't read the article, but the NY governor inserted a clause into the bill at the last minute which more or less devalues the whole bill. See Louis Rossman's channel on Youtube. He's tracked this issue all the way through. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xGBB-717AI&t=486s . Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Python curses
Folks: I'm trying to write some code in Python's curses module. I've run into common curses items like A_NORMAL which don't exist. When I do a print(curses.version), it shows "b 2.2". This tells me that the Debian (testing) version of python curses is version 2.2. The documentation for python curses at docs.python.org mentions versions up to 3.10. Is it really possible that the latest version of Python in Debian testing is linked to (or however it works) the 2.2 version of Python curses? If someone has insights here, I'd be grateful. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Python curses
On Tue, 10 Jan 2023 21:29:31 +1100 David wrote: > On Tue, 10 Jan 2023 at 15:04, wrote: > > > > I'm trying to write some code in Python's curses module. > > Hi, > > This kindle/paperback book [1][2] might also be of interest. > Don't like Amazon's vendor lock with Kindle. Do you know of a simple, accessible way of converting a Kindle book to something I can read on my PC? [snip] > The author is a moderator of the python-tutor mailing list [4], and > very helpful on there, so that also might be a good place to ask > any questions you might have. Thanks. I'm principally a PHP programmer, and several things about Python irk me. So that help might be pretty useful. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Python curses
On Tue, 10 Jan 2023 03:21:11 -0600 Nate Bargmann wrote: > * On 2023 09 Jan 22:05 -0600, pa...@quillandmouse.com wrote: > > Folks: > > I'm not python curses expert, but is what I found. > > > I'm trying to write some code in Python's curses module. I've run > > into common curses items like A_NORMAL which don't exist. When I do > > a print(curses.version), it shows "b 2.2". This tells me that the > > Debian (testing) version of python curses is version 2.2. The > > documentation for python curses at docs.python.org mentions > > versions up to 3.10. > > Presumably you're running Bullseye as am I. Here is what I show: I'm actually on testing. The Python version is 3.10.x > > Python 3.9.2 (default, Feb 28 2021, 17:03:44) > [GCC 10.2.1 20210110] on linux > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. > >>> import curses > >>> print(curses.version) > b'2.2' > >>> dir() > ['__annotations__', '__builtins__', '__doc__', '__loader__', > '__name__', '__package__', '__spec__', 'curses'] > >>> dir(curses) > [...(snip lots of stuff), 'A_NORMAL', (snip even more stuff)] > > >>> curses.A_NORMAL > 0 > >>> curses.A_PROTECT > 16777216 > >>> curses.A_BOLD > 2097152 > >>> curses.A_COLOR > 65280 > > Do you get similar values for those constants? What you wrote triggered something. I'd been following the Python curses docs, which tell you to write, for example, "A_REVERSE". And Python was throwing exceptions. But based on what you wrote, I substituted "curses.A_REVERSE", which works. Problem solved... for now. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Python curses
On Tue, 10 Jan 2023 08:34:05 -0500 Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 08:24:11AM -0500, pa...@quillandmouse.com > wrote: > > What you wrote triggered something. I'd been following the Python > > curses docs, which tell you to write, for example, "A_REVERSE". And > > Python was throwing exceptions. But based on what you wrote, I > > substituted "curses.A_REVERSE", which works. > > > > Problem solved... for now. > > I'm a Python novice, but I believe what you're seeing is the > difference between No, here's what happened. I was going along, and I used "A_REVERSE" in my code, according to the online docs. Exception, didn't recognize the name. That didn't make sense; this attribute is basic to curses. So I started investigated versions of Python, ncurses, Python curses, etc. But as it turns out, instead of typing "A_REVERSE", I should have ignored the docs and typed "curses.A_REVERSE". That worked, and obviated the whole versioning problem. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Python curses
On Tue, 10 Jan 2023 08:11:28 -0500 Dan Ritter wrote: > pa...@quillandmouse.com wrote: > > On Tue, 10 Jan 2023 21:29:31 +1100 > > David wrote: > > > > > On Tue, 10 Jan 2023 at 15:04, wrote: > > > > > > > > I'm trying to write some code in Python's curses module. > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > This kindle/paperback book [1][2] might also be of interest. > > > > > > > Don't like Amazon's vendor lock with Kindle. Do you know of a > > simple, accessible way of converting a Kindle book to something I > > can read on my PC? > > The Debian package calibre contains: > > - an X11 application which is an all-singing, all-dancing > library manager and ebook reader > > - a set of CLI-usable conversion utilities, most importantly > 'ebook-convert', which figures out the input format > automatically and exports to a large number of output formats, > most usefully EPUB and PDF. > Follow-up question, in case you know this too: apparently, when you purchase a Kindle book and read it via the Kindle app on your Android phone, the document doesn't exist on the phone itself. I've plugged my phone into my PC and examined every directory under Android and the SIM card, and I can't find a trace of the Kindle book I purchased. I've installed Calibre, but without having the Kindle file in hand, I can't convert it. So... any idea how to actually pry the Kindle file out of Amazon's greedy hands, so I can point Calibre at it? Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Python curses
On Tue, 10 Jan 2023 09:31:26 -0600 David Wright wrote: > On Tue 10 Jan 2023 at 09:01:17 (-0500), pa...@quillandmouse.com wrote: > > On Tue, 10 Jan 2023 08:34:05 -0500 Greg Wooledge > > wrote: > > > On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 08:24:11AM -0500, pa...@quillandmouse.com > > > wrote: > > > > What you wrote triggered something. I'd been following the > > > > Python curses docs, which tell you to write, for example, > > > > "A_REVERSE". And Python was throwing exceptions. But based on > > > > what you wrote, I substituted "curses.A_REVERSE", which works. > > > > > > > > Problem solved... for now. > > Exactly: just for now. > > > > I'm a Python novice, but I believe what you're seeing is the > > > difference between > > > > No, here's what happened. I was going along, and I used "A_REVERSE" > > in my code, according to the online docs. Exception, didn't > > recognize the name. That didn't make sense; this attribute is basic > > to curses. So I started investigated versions of Python, ncurses, > > Python curses, etc. > > > > But as it turns out, instead of typing "A_REVERSE", I should have > > ignored the docs and typed "curses.A_REVERSE". That worked, and > > obviated the whole versioning problem. > > You keep mentioning "the docs" without saying which docs, so a > reference might be helpful. Sorry. I'm using the following (and related pages): https://docs.python.org/3/library/curses.html These appear to be the most authoritative. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Python curses
On Tue, 10 Jan 2023 13:17:10 -0600 David Wright wrote: > On Tue 10 Jan 2023 at 11:13:55 (-0500), pa...@quillandmouse.com wrote: > > On Tue, 10 Jan 2023 09:31:26 -0600 > David Wright > > wrote: > > > > You keep mentioning "the docs" without saying which docs, so a > > > reference might be helpful. > > > > Sorry. I'm using the following (and related pages): > > > > https://docs.python.org/3/library/curses.html > > > > These appear to be the most authoritative. > > Correct. > > > > On Tue 10 Jan 2023 at 09:01:17 (-0500), pa...@quillandmouse.com > > > wrote: > > > > On Tue, 10 Jan 2023 08:34:05 -0500 Greg Wooledge > > > > wrote: > > > > > On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 08:24:11AM -0500, > > > > > pa...@quillandmouse.com wrote: > > > > > > What you wrote triggered something. I'd been following the > > > > > > Python curses docs, which tell you to write, for example, > > > > > > "A_REVERSE". > > No, they don't. > > > > > > > And Python was throwing exceptions. But based on > > > > > > what you wrote, I substituted "curses.A_REVERSE", which > > > > > > works. > > > > > > > > > > > > Problem solved... for now. > > > > > > Exactly: just for now. > > > > > > > > I'm a Python novice, but I believe what you're seeing is the > > > > > difference between > > > > > > > > No, here's what happened. I was going along, and I used > > > > "A_REVERSE" in my code, according to the online docs. > > > > Exception, didn't recognize the name. That didn't make sense; > > > > this attribute is basic to curses. > > Exactly, it's an attribute, as shown by the heading of the table > in which you found A_REVERSE. And that attribute is a part of > the curses module, and must be qualified with curses.A_REVERSE > unless you import A_REVERSE (or all, *) into your namespace. > Correct. Actually, this should have been obvious to me if I'd been thinking clearly. Doing a "import curses" shouldn't make bare library symbols available in your code. It only makes sense you'd need to address them with a prefix. It may be argued that I shouldn't do the import this way. However, I prefer to have "curses." in front of things imported. It makes the link explicit, and serves to remind me of what's actually going on, when I revisit the code in five years. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Flatpak memory usage
Folks: Am I correct in assuming that package formats like Flatpak, Snap and Appimage, because they package up everything with the executable, would consume more system memory? One of the reasons to use these formats is to avoid library version mismatches, and peg the libraries which accompany an executable at a certain version. But if this is true, then it stands to reason that the executable would use, for example, GNOME libraries which aren't the same as what's on your system being shared by other software. Thus, when you launch X flatpak, it must load its own version of the GNOME libraries. Which would take up more system memory. Am I correct about this, or is there something I'm missing? Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Flatpak memory usage
On Tue, 14 Feb 2023 23:55:03 +0100 Oliver Schoede wrote: > On Mon, 13 Feb 2023 09:35:34 -0500 > wrote: > > >Am I correct in assuming that package formats like Flatpak, Snap and > >Appimage, because they package up everything with the executable, > >would consume more system memory? [snip] > Flatpak is the odd one out and doesn't exactly work like this. Rather > than completely self-contained images, the packages aren't that much > different from what we have in Debian. The difference being that as > for dependencies it's more of an all or nothing affair. I principally wanted to confirm my suspicions about memory usage. There's been increasing usage of Flatpaks, Snaps and Appimages. As though it's a solution to the "problem" of distributions' own package management systems. And now Fedora is openly embracing Flatpaks. I find the trend disturbing. If you have a lot of apps running, and they're all these types of packages, you're going to be using considerably more memory. The alarming increase in the size of the Linux kernel is yet another symptom of this idea that, because memory is cheap, we simply use more. In my mind, it's a little like having access to unlimited amounts of water and thus using all of it you can. Or gasoline/petrol. Or food. I don't have a problem with Debian's packaging system, and am generally satisfied with the stable but older versions of Debian packages. They get the job done. Maybe I'm weird. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Flatpak memory usage
On Wed, 15 Feb 2023 07:11:02 +0100 wrote: > On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 10:36:12PM -0500, pa...@quillandmouse.com > wrote: > > [...] > > > I find the trend disturbing. If you have a lot of apps running, and > > they're all these types of packages, you're going to be using > > considerably more memory [...] > > I'm not a friend of flatpaks and similar concepts, either. For me, > it's not memory use, but the shifting of power from a distrubution > model to single applications. I find that makes software less "free". > > In a distro, applications have to get along with each other, agree > on a common set of libraries, file system layout, etc. I think this > is a Good Thing. Every app carrying its own little distro is like > neoliberal hell. No wonder it uses up more resources ;-D I'd forgotten about that angle. IIRC, snaps are controlled by Canonical. Flathub controls flatpaks. Appimages can be built by anyone, but they are one file with *everything* in them. I trust Debian to audit and ensure my packages are secure and interoperable. I don't necessarily trust Canonical or Flathub. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Partitioning an SSD?
On Wed, 15 Feb 2023 18:45:49 -0500 Michael Stone wrote: > > I don't personally think there's a point in partitioning any storage > device on a user system these days beyond what's required to boot. If > you want to do more, that's a personal preference. Being an SSD > doesn't really change things. > Here's why you would partition a drive. Reinstalling (which I end up having to do every time Debian comes out with a new version) means overwriting the storage. If your home partition is part of that, it's gone too, along with your music, photos and valuable documents. Likewise if something catastrophic happens to the drive itself. You could store everything together. Then you could back up the home directory and then copy it back, I suppose. I just find it simpler to have a separate partition for home. For what it's worth to the original poster, my root and home partitions are on their own partitions on separate SSDs. SSDs versus HDDs isn't really an important distinction when it comes to partitioning. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Flatpak memory usage
On Thu, 16 Feb 2023 17:12:12 -0500 Jeffrey Walton wrote: > On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 1:11 AM wrote: > > > > On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 10:36:12PM -0500, pa...@quillandmouse.com > > wrote: > > > > [...] > > > > > I find the trend disturbing. If you have a lot of apps running, > > > and they're all these types of packages, you're going to be using > > > considerably more memory [...] > > > > I'm not a friend of flatpaks and similar concepts, either. For me, > > it's not memory use, but the shifting of power from a distrubution > > model to single applications. I find that makes software less > > "free". > > > > In a distro, applications have to get along with each other, agree > > on a common set of libraries, file system layout, etc. I think this > > is a Good Thing. Every app carrying its own little distro is like > > neoliberal hell. No wonder it uses up more resources ;-D > > And the distro no longer has administrative control over the package. > The programs do not go through distro-based end-to-end testing or > security testing and evaluation. > > Knowing a distro performs end-to-end testing, monitors security events > and performs patching is the reason I use distros. The distro owned it > and took care of it. > > Now each user owns it. The user is responsible for ensuring the code > is fit for installation. > > Jeff > This brings up another tangent. Bob, a Debian user, is using a flatpak version of the Snorgistic package, and something goes wrong. He gets on the Debian user list for support. He's not thinking about where his package came from, and we don't realize it's a flatpak. We try to help him, to no avail. A waste of community and Bob's time as well. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Partitioning an SSD?
On Fri, 17 Feb 2023 23:09:15 -0600 David Wright wrote: > On Thu 16 Feb 2023 at 08:59:58 (+0100), Nicolas George wrote: > > pa...@quillandmouse.com (12023-02-15): > > > Here's why you would partition a drive. Reinstalling (which I end > > > up having to do every time Debian comes out with a new version > > > > Debian is not Ubuntu, major upgrade do not break the system. > > Judging by what we read here, they do when inexperienced people > try running testing or unstable for one reason or another. > (NB I'm casting no aspertions on paulf.) > > Cheers, > David. > OMG, I've been aspersed! ;-) Actually, I probably don't need to reinstall on upgrades. I've been using Debian for 20 years or so, and I've found there are sometimes problems with upgrades. More importantly, over time I accumulate packages which I don't need and which become cruft. Reinstalling zeroes everything back to only the packages I really want, and I can guarantee that things are now "clean". Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
XFCE4 without panels
Folks: I'm trying to run XFCE4 with no (XFCE4) panels. I prefer polybar and tint2. I've searched the internet high and low, and all the advice I can find is old and doesn't work for the current (Debian 12) version. Settings > Session and Startup etc. doesn't provide a way, and the XFCE4 panel app won't allow you to delete the last (only) panel. Anyone know how to start XFCE4 without the panels? Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: XFCE4 without panels
On Tue, 3 Oct 2023 17:20:01 +0100 Joe wrote: > Is this a matter of principle for the OP, or does the panel interfere > with something else? I have three panels, and for me they are the main > point of running a DE rather than just a window manager. But one of > them contains an analogue clock and nothing else (because I want it > wider than the other two panels), and if the OP just wants to get rid > of the program launchers and other widgets in the usual panel(s), this > could be done to satisfy the 'at least one panel' requirement. Or a > CPU monitor or something else useful if the clock isn't wanted. And > it can be set to auto-hide so you don't even see it unless you > deliberately tickle it. Motivation: I came from i3, where I had a "status bar" at the bottom of the screen. I want that back, and I can use polybar for that. Since I have a 1920x1080 monitor, and I want icons for my frequently used apps on the left, vertically. Tint2 will do that. I use XFCE4 for two reasons: 1) it is one of the least memory hungry window managers/desktops environments, 2) it has a path toward Wayland, which I would like to switch to some day. I believe The XFCE panel will go vertical, but it doesn't work right. I just want a row of icons, period. But I can't figure out how to make that happen; I get huge spaces between the icons. If you know how that's done, let me know. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: XFCE4 without panels
On Tue, 3 Oct 2023 21:53:36 +0100 Joe wrote: > I use the Third Option, the deskbar, which gives vertical panels at > the side and as far as I can see, no spaces between anything, unless > you actually place a separator. I use 36 pixels for the launcher > panel and 44 pixels, on the other side, for open applications and > notifications. The Applications icon has to be renamed to no more > than four letters, as the text is horizontal in 36 pixels width, I > call mine 'Main'. The panels can be set to a fixed size or to > autosize, and I keep the right-hand one down a bit from the top. Some > applications don't know to keep the panel area clear, and if it's > right at the top, I lose the close widget as the panel stays on top > of the application. The panels can be set to autohide, but I prefer > to keep them open all the time. > > The analogue clock is 60 pixels wide to make it useful, and I leave it > unlocked. Wherever it is placed it will obscure something at some > time, so I leave it movable. Not sure what the "deskbar" is. However, I tried one last time to get XFCE's panel to act right vertically on the left, it looks fine. So I added polybar, and it's pretty much what I was looking for. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Password managers
Folks: I have a bash/GPG based password manager I wrote years ago, but I'd like to use something more "accepted/popular". The problem I have with the other password managers I've looked at is that you can store a very limited amount of information for each "account". For example, for one of my logins, I may have to store the answers to three security questions, an account login, email address, the actual password, and maybe the mobile phone number associated with the login. I also object to my password information being stored online by some password manager vendor. Does anyone know of a password manager which will store a variety of user-defined information for each login, and not store that information on the internet (and which is free as in beer)? Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Password managers
On Thu, 9 Nov 2023 12:46:23 -0500 Todd Zullinger wrote: > Hi, > > pa...@quillandmouse.com wrote: > > I have a bash/GPG based password manager I wrote years ago, but I'd > > like to use something more "accepted/popular". The problem I have > > with the other password managers I've looked at is that you can > > store a very limited amount of information for each "account". For > > example, for one of my logins, I may have to store the answers to > > three security questions, an account login, email address, the > > actual password, and maybe the mobile phone number associated with > > the login. I also object to my password information being stored > > online by some password manager vendor. > > > > Does anyone know of a password manager which will store a variety of > > user-defined information for each login, and not store that > > information on the internet (and which is free as in beer)? > > You may like pass[1]. It's a bash script which uses gpg, so > it's somewhat familiar to what you've written in a sense. > > It supports random data via the --multiline (-m) option. > > It's locally hosted (though you can use online syncing tools > if you want). There are a a good number of alternative > clients for it as well, to suit various use cases or > environments. > > [1] https://www.passwordstore.org/ > Excellent suggestion! I can't get it to work properly, because there must be something fundamentally missing in my understanding of GPG, etc. To initiate the store, you use the following command: pass init If I feed this my master password for the "gpg-id", the .gpg-id file in the password store shows my master password in the clear. This can't be right. None of the docs explain what a "gpg-id" actually is. I found some docs on Redhat's site where you could generate a gpg file: gpg --full-generate-key This asks a bunch of questions, and asks me for my master password. It generates a file: ~/.gnupg/pubring.kbx, and add a couple of hex strings in ~/.gnupg/private-keys-v1.d. Seems like I should be using one of those strings as my private key for gpg-id, but which one? I'm really not sure what to give the init command for a gpg-id. Any help would be much appreciated. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Password managers
On Fri, 10 Nov 2023 00:39:08 -0500 wrote: > On Thu, 9 Nov 2023 12:46:23 -0500 > Todd Zullinger wrote: > > > > > [1] https://www.passwordstore.org/ > > > > Excellent suggestion! > > I can't get it to work properly, because there must be something > fundamentally missing in my understanding of GPG, etc. > > To initiate the store, you use the following command: > > pass init > > If I feed this my master password for the "gpg-id", the .gpg-id file > in the password store shows my master password in the clear. This > can't be right. None of the docs explain what a "gpg-id" actually is. > > I found some docs on Redhat's site where you could generate a gpg > file: > > gpg --full-generate-key > > This asks a bunch of questions, and asks me for my master password. It > generates a file: ~/.gnupg/pubring.kbx, and add a couple of hex > strings in ~/.gnupg/private-keys-v1.d. Seems like I should be using > one of those strings as my private key for gpg-id, but which one? > > I'm really not sure what to give the init command for a gpg-id. Any > help would be much appreciated. > > Paul > Sorry for the confusion. I figured it out. The gpg-id is the ID I used when I set up the gpg key mentioned above. I was able to set up pass and add password entries. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Password managers
On Thu, 09 Nov 2023 10:48:14 -0600 John Hasler wrote: > Why does "accepted/popular" matter? Not a great choice of words, perhaps. I was thinking in terms of those password managers which are written by others and included in the Debian repositories. As it happens, pass(1) appeared to be precisely what I was looking for. My original code stores all passwords in a single file, whereas pass stores each password in a separate file. In addition, I don't need pass in order to decode the password files. If pass every goes away or disappears from the Debian repos, I can still fetch my passwords (and associated data). Plus, it will insert any line in the password file into the clipboard. And it's a terminal app. Yay. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Password managers
On Tue, 14 Nov 2023 23:38:58 +0700 Max Nikulin wrote: > On 14/11/2023 09:58, paulf wrote: > > > > As it happens, pass(1) appeared to be precisely what I was looking > > for. > [...] > > Plus, it will insert any line in the password file > > into the clipboard. > > In general it is better to avoid secrets copied to the clipboard. > Even JavaScript from a web page might read clipboard contents. > (Browsers however restrict this ability requiring either user gesture > or granting a permission in a popup dialog.) > Pass(1) sets a timer and removes the password from the clipboard after that time has expired. Also worth noting that this system is in my home, behind a firewall, my wife being the only other person with physical access to my computer. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: should CLI have a nice UI today?
On Fri, 24 Mar 2023 09:35:09 -0700 Charlie Gibbs wrote: > > IMHO computer systems should be ugly and boring. Ugly, as in lacking > all the eye candy that gets in the way, and boring as in just doing > what you want without unpleasant surprises. > > Short answer: Not over my dead Teletype. > I have to agree. This business of having to have a GUI for everything is excessive. It's why long time admins typically go straight to the command line, rather than enlisting the help of some mouse-and-window whiz bang program. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Apt sources.list
Folks: Here is my sources.list file: --- deb http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian/ bookworm main contrib non-free deb-src http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian/ bookworm main contrib non-free deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security bookworm-security main contrib non-free deb-src http://security.debian.org/debian-security bookworm-security main contrib non-free --- According to https://www.debian.org/releases/, bookworm at this time is "testing". But when the next release comes, bookworm will still be bookworm, but "testing" will be bookworm "plus". I'd like to follow testing, regardless of the status of Debian official releases. So... in my sources.list, if I change "bookworm" to "testing", will it do that, and (other than the instabilities of testing) is there any liability to it? Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Apt sources.list
On Sat, 15 Apr 2023 13:23:05 +0100 Brian wrote: > On Sat 15 Apr 2023 at 08:11:17 -0400, pa...@quillandmouse.com wrote: > > > Folks: > > > > Here is my sources.list file: > > > > --- > > > > deb http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian/ bookworm main contrib > > non-free deb-src http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian/ bookworm main > > contrib non-free > > > > deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security bookworm-security > > main contrib non-free deb-src > > http://security.debian.org/debian-security bookworm-security main > > contrib non-free > > > > --- > > > > According to https://www.debian.org/releases/, bookworm at this > > time is "testing". But when the next release comes, bookworm will > > still be bookworm, but "testing" will be bookworm "plus". I'd like > > to follow testing, regardless of the status of Debian official > > releases. > > > > So... in my sources.list, if I change "bookworm" to "testing", will > > it do that, and (other than the instabilities of testing) is there > > any liability to it? > > bookworm to testing is exactly what you want. > Thanks for your advice. I ran apt update with no issues. -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Apt sources.list
On Sat, 15 Apr 2023 14:01:27 +0100
Alain D D Williams wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 15, 2023 at 08:52:06AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > On Sat, Apr 15, 2023 at 01:23:05PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > > On Sat 15 Apr 2023 at 08:11:17 -0400, pa...@quillandmouse.com
> > > wrote:
> > > > ---
> > > >
> > > > deb http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian/ bookworm main contrib
> > > > non-free deb-src http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian/ bookworm
> > > > main contrib non-free
> > > >
> > > > deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security
> > > > bookworm-security main contrib non-free deb-src
> > > > http://security.debian.org/debian-security bookworm-security
> > > > main contrib non-free
> > > >
> > > > ---
>
> While we are talking about this, is there any reason why all the
> http: should not be https: ?
>
> I have done this on my own machine without ill effect.
>
Okay. Let's open this can of worms. The ONLY reason https is used on
most sites is because Google *mandated* it years ago. ("Mandate" means
we'll downgrade your search ranking if you don't use https.) There is
otherwise no earthly reason to have an encrypted connection to a web
server unless there is some exchange of private information between you
and the server.
Reading through all of Google's explanations, I've never seen a
satisfactory explanation for this change. With that in mind, I believe
the Debian gods did the right thing in leaving their web connections
"insecure". Though, in truth, the integrity of Debian server contents
wouldn't be changed in the slightest whether the connection was
encrypted or not.
Paul
--
Paul M. Foster
Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com
Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com
Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Apt sources.list
On Sat, 15 Apr 2023 16:45:40 + "Andrew M.A. Cater" wrote: > On Sat, Apr 15, 2023 at 01:23:05PM +0100, Brian wrote: > > On Sat 15 Apr 2023 at 08:11:17 -0400, pa...@quillandmouse.com wrote: > > > > > Folks: > > > > > > Here is my sources.list file: > > > > > > --- > > > > > > deb http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian/ bookworm main contrib > > > non-free deb-src http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian/ bookworm main > > > contrib non-free > > > > > > deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security bookworm-security > > > main contrib non-free deb-src > > > http://security.debian.org/debian-security bookworm-security main > > > contrib non-free > > > > > > --- > > > > > > According to https://www.debian.org/releases/, bookworm at this > > > time is "testing". But when the next release comes, bookworm will > > > still be bookworm, but "testing" will be bookworm "plus". I'd > > > like to follow testing, regardless of the status of Debian > > > official releases. > > > > > I would really not advise that. The changes as one distribution rolls > to stable and the next one becomes testing are quite major - also, > things change (like sources.list files). > > I would suggest that you remain on bookworm until bookworm is > released as stable. At that point (and only then) change bookworm to > trixie and carry on. As soon as bookworm is released, there will be > massive churn. > > Stable, testing, unstable are mutable: distribution code names are > not. There's a reason why Debian switched to codenames early - there > never was a Debian 1.0 - > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian_version_history and > https://wiki.debian.org/DebianReleases > I've been at Debian for a couple of decades now, and I'm aware of how the distro and its flavors change periodically. At the instant bookworm becomes "official", stable changes completely to become bookworm, and testing is slightly different from bookworm. I've run stable, testing and sid in the past. Sid's a little too unstable for my tastes. But stable is typically too "old". Testing is fine for me as long as I don't continually update packages. A while back, I tried Arch for about four months. Great distro, but I had stability problems because on Arch, you typically update all the time. It's a complete moving target. It's fine for a lot of guys who chase the latest packages, but I'm not that guy. When Debian officially changes versions, I typically reinstall, whether I'm running stable or testing. This brings most everything up to date, and eliminates the cruft I'm accumulated of packages I installed but no longer want. I'm willing to shoulder the risks of running testing and upgrading entirely when bookworm becomes stable. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Apt sources.list
On Sat, 15 Apr 2023 20:30:11 -0400
Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 15, 2023 at 11:09 AM wrote:
> > On Sat, 15 Apr 2023 14:01:27 +0100
> > Alain D D Williams wrote:
> > > On Sat, Apr 15, 2023 at 08:52:06AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > > While we are talking about this, is there any reason why all the
> > > http: should not be https: ?
> > >
> > > I have done this on my own machine without ill effect.
> >
> > Okay. Let's open this can of worms. The ONLY reason https is used on
> > most sites is because Google *mandated* it years ago. ("Mandate"
> > means we'll downgrade your search ranking if you don't use https.)
> > There is otherwise no earthly reason to have an encrypted
> > connection to a web server unless there is some exchange of private
> > information between you and the server.
> >
> > Reading through all of Google's explanations, I've never seen a
> > satisfactory explanation for this change. With that in mind, I
> > believe the Debian gods did the right thing in leaving their web
> > connections "insecure". Though, in truth, the integrity of Debian
> > server contents wouldn't be changed in the slightest whether the
> > connection was encrypted or not.
>
> The change came after Snowden released his cache of documents and the
> world learned how pervasive snooping is by the US government. There's
> nothing special about the US government, and we know other governments
> were doing it, too.
>
OMG! The U.S. government spying on people??!! They only have at least
one government agency which does only that-- the NSA. And everyone's
known about this forever.
What's even funnier is Google pushing this change, since there's no
nosier company on Earth than those guys. Their treasure trove of user
data probably rivals the NSA's.
Paul
--
Paul M. Foster
Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com
Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com
Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: I installed 11.6
On Fri, 5 May 2023 23:27:45 -0400 Maureen L Thomas wrote: > I installed debian 11.6 and updated the needed packages to 11.7. I > must say that I hate upgrading because they change everything and I > cannot find the utilities I need to make this the way I want it. > Does anyone know which utility changes the window settings. Like the > X in the upper right hand corner. I want all three items including > the - and the box. > > Thank you guys for all your help. > This won't help you now, but in the future. Your window manager and other similar settings are stored in your home directory. If you maintain your home directory on a separate drive, and don't allow the install process to touch it, your window manager settings should be preserved (assuming you use the same window manager in your new install). Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Ok so Now which backup should I use
On Mon, 15 May 2023 20:17:48 -0400 Maureen L Thomas wrote: > I have everything I need including a third HDD. There are so many > backup programs I have to wonder which one will work for my needs. I > just need to make a backup of my home directory so if I do something > stupid like play with /var and have no idea how to fix it. Is there > something else I need to back up besides /home? I appreciate your > help. > > Moe I'd suggest backing up /etc, since that's where your system settings are. I also back up /var, since that's typically where your logs and mail are. Which backup program you use depends on features, like whether you want it to fire off at the same time every day. Like whether you want a GUI or terminal program. Etc. Personally, I wrote my own backup script using rsync, which fires off each day at about 7:38. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: need nano like editor that can print
On Sat, 3 Jun 2023 10:22:42 -0400 gene heskett wrote: > An simple non-x editor like nano that can print thru cups. Vim will do this through the "hardcopy" command. It sends text to the print server (CUPS). I do this all the time. Of course, vim isn't nano; you'd have to live with modes. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Removing i386 architecture
Folks: In order to install steam from the Debian repo, I followed the directions to: dpkg --add-architecture i386 prior to the installation. Turns out steam wouldn't run my game, so I uninstalled it. Now I don't need the i386 architecture, so I dutifully did: dpkg --remove-architecture i386 I received this error message: dpkg: error: cannot remove architecture 'i386' currently in use by the database So if anyone can help me remove i386, I'd appreciate it. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Removing i386 architecture
On Sun, 11 Jun 2023 00:13:39 -0400
Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 10:27 PM wrote:
> >
> > Folks:
> >
> > In order to install steam from the Debian repo, I followed the
> > directions to:
> >
> > dpkg --add-architecture i386
> >
> > prior to the installation. Turns out steam wouldn't run my game, so
> > I uninstalled it. Now I don't need the i386 architecture, so I
> > dutifully did:
> >
> > dpkg --remove-architecture i386
> >
> > I received this error message:
> >
> > dpkg: error: cannot remove architecture 'i386' currently in use by
> > the database
> >
> > So if anyone can help me remove i386, I'd appreciate it.
>
> apt-get remove --purge \
> `dpkg --get-selections | grep i386 | awk '{print $1}'`
>
> followed by
>
> dpkg --remove-architecture i386
>
> Jeff
>
Nice try. However, this isn't allowed, as it would apparently remove
libcrypt1:i386, which is apparently a "system-critical" package. I'm
not sure how this could be system critical, since my original
installation was 64 bit. This begins to look like a reinstall, in order
to get my system "clean". Unless anyone has other ideas.
Paul
--
Paul M. Foster
Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com
Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com
Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Removing i386 architecture
On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 06:32:27 +0200 wrote: > On Sun, Jun 11, 2023 at 09:27:11PM -0400, pa...@quillandmouse.com > wrote: > > [...] > > > Nice try. However, this isn't allowed, as it would apparently remove > > libcrypt1:i386, which is apparently a "system-critical" package. I'm > > not sure how this could be system critical, since my original > > installation was 64 bit. This begins to look like a reinstall, in > > order to get my system "clean". Unless anyone has other ideas. > > This has even made it into a bug report [1]. It seems that just adding > the --allow-remove-essential option is what you need. > > Cheers > > [1] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1001015;msg=7 Amazing, the bug reporter had virtually the same problem as I did. Unfortunately, I decided to reinstall anyway. I accumulate cruft (packages I install just to test and forget to uninstall), so I figured a fresh install of Bookworm with just the packages I wanted would be best. In any case, thanks for your advice. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Do I need X session?
Folks: Typically, when Debian installs a GUI environment (GNOME, XFCE4, etc.), it also installs lightdm or some other X session manager. This takes up memory, and isn't something I really need (as far as I know). Instead, I'm perfectly happy to have Debian give me a console login prompt, and then I issue startx. Is there any liability to removing lightdm or similar? Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: package managers problem
On Fri, 16 Jun 2023 18:41:08 -0400 Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Fri, Jun 16, 2023 at 06:35:48PM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > > 0 upgraded, 164 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded. > > Need to get 44.5 MB of archives. > > After this operation, 206 MB of additional disk space will be used. > > I really don't understand why people want a GUI package manager at > all. The last time I used anything even remotely *close* to a GUI > package manager was dselect, back in the previous century. And that > was a curses (terminal) interface, not an X11 one. > > In the last two decades, I haven't used or wanted anything fancier > than apt(-get). > > Now, granted, this is just my personal stance. I may be atypical. > That said, what exactly does a GUI package manager offer you, that > you can't get from "apt install thing-i-want"? > Here's a reason to use a GUI package manager (or even aptitude): you want a package which does X, and you don't know which packages do that. I install stuff with apt and apt-get all the time, but only once I know the package name. Synaptic is easier to "navigate" because, in a terminal, aptitude is all the same size text in different colors. Things sort of jumble together, at least for me. The synaptic GUI separates things out and it's easier to pick out what you want to focus on on screen. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: package managers problem
On Fri, 16 Jun 2023 19:40:54 -0400 gene heskett wrote: > On 6/16/23 18:41, Greg Wooledge wrote: > > On Fri, Jun 16, 2023 at 06:35:48PM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > >> 0 upgraded, 164 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded. > >> Need to get 44.5 MB of archives. > >> After this operation, 206 MB of additional disk space will be used. > > > > I really don't understand why people want a GUI package manager at > > all. The last time I used anything even remotely *close* to a GUI > > package manager was dselect, back in the previous century. And > > that was a curses (terminal) interface, not an X11 one. > > > > In the last two decades, I haven't used or wanted anything fancier > > than apt(-get). > > > > Now, granted, this is just my personal stance. I may be atypical. > > That said, what exactly does a GUI package manager offer you, that > > you can't get from "apt install thing-i-want"? > > > > . > Like looking at the menu in a fancy restaurant, if you don't have a > menu to read, how that heck are you supposed to know what you want? > > Cheers, Gene Heskett. +1 -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: package managers problem
On Fri, 16 Jun 2023 18:17:07 -0400 gene heskett wrote: [snip] > So all my cnc machines are still on buster, and will stay there until > wayland CAN replace X11. wayland is just barely able to run a simple > gui, and until it can transparently do everything X11 has done for > decades, its not open for discussion. Wayland is a cripple, and will > remain so until I can ssh -Y into one of my buster machines and > everything in its gui works just as if I was at that machines > keyboard, mouse and monitor. Until then wayland is still knocking on > the door begging to be let in. Wayland's not bad, it just doesn't work for you. I sympathize. I look forward to the day when Wayland can replace the creaky Xorg system. But the problem is that so many programs we take for granted haven't been ported to Wayland; they have to run in Xwayland if they'll run at all. I'd love to embrace Wayland, but like you, I believe there are just too many programs I need which Wayland won't support natively. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: package managers problem
On Fri, 16 Jun 2023 15:14:43 -0400 gene heskett wrote: > On 6/16/23 14:38, Jeffrey Walton wrote: > > On Fri, Jun 16, 2023 at 2:32 PM gene heskett > > wrote: > >> > >> greetings, just had to reinstall bullseye. from an 11.2 netinstall. > >> > >> Sudo -E cannot run synaptic, and cannot run it from menu pulldown > >> after entering my pw. So what package manager with a gui for > >> selection is compatible with wayland? Something I can get apt to > >> install from a sudo -i shell? > > > > For Debian, the official package manager is Apt and Aptitude. See > > https://wiki.debian.org/Aptitude . > > > > Jeff > > . > Has aptitude been tamed? > > I've stayed away from it now for years because its torn the system > down with its idea of dependencies, to doing a reinstall 4 times in > the decade passed. I do not trust it at all, been burned to the > ground too many times. With apt, I was able to remove cups-browsed > all by itself with apt so the brother factory drivers could actually > run my pair of brother printers just now. I have serious doubts > aptitude would have allowed that without nuking 300 other files too. > Like the kernel thats running once. That is not an ooops but nobody > seemed to notice at the time. The arm version seems to be ok, but x86 > stuff? > > Cheers, Gene Heskett. Please forgive my ignorance. But from what I've heard, apt and apt-get manage packages differently, and aptitude does it differently as well. Why isn't there a ONE WAY for packages to be managed? You'd think this would a high priority for the Debian team. If the answer is, "We don't want to break stuff from long ago", why not just deprecate things over time? And why hasn't anyone made a Wayland-native port of Synaptic? Is it planned? If not, why not? Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: Why are there multiple ways to do things in Debian? (Was Re: package managers problem)
On Sat, 17 Jun 2023 11:45:06 + Andy Smith wrote: > Hello, > > On Fri, Jun 16, 2023 at 11:03:59PM -0400, pa...@quillandmouse.com > wrote: > > Why isn't there a ONE WAY for packages to be managed? > > Because of the fundamental philosophies that underpin how Debian is > developed. Debian is not the sort of place where a top-down > authority declares that there is One Way to do a given thing and > has the remit to force developers to work on it, and users to > accept it. Well, *someone(s)* said, "This is the back end database and here are the rules for manipulating it, here is the data which must be contained in it." Debian's capable of deciding that systemd is installed by default, etc, even if such decisions occur after monumental discussions/arguments. I'm not suggesting there should be one package manager to rule them all. But when the various tools resolve dependencies in different ways, we clearly have a problem. A problem which could be resolved, at least in theory, by a concerted effort on the part of Debian leadership. Getting someone to implement the solution would require an eager volunteer. I'm not here to snipe at Debian. I've been using it for 20 years. I recently tried Arch, and it only took me a few weeks to decide the Debian way was better for me. As regards Synaptic, based on the discussion here, I'm guessing that whoever is maintaining it has no particular desire to craft a Wayland version, and that's why it hasn't been done. Still, Debian leadership could put out a call for volunteers to work on this. It *could* be done. I get that Debian doesn't want to mandate how VLC or Firefox handle their software, but Debian-exclusive package management is a different matter. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: package managers problem
On Sat, 17 Jun 2023 08:38:33 -0400 Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Fri, Jun 16, 2023 at 11:03:59PM -0400, pa...@quillandmouse.com > wrote: > > Why isn't there a ONE WAY for packages to be managed? > > Because each user has a different preference. Just read this thread > for example, and see all the differing opinions about how we like > our packages to be managed. > Again, I'm not suggesting ONE tool. I'm suggesting that, for example, dependency resolution be handled in a specific way by all tools. Make all the tools you like. But ensure that on the back end, they all deal with the database in the same way. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: package managers problem
On Tue, 20 Jun 2023 03:58:18 +0200 Anders Andersson wrote: [snip] > I've been watching this thread from afar for a while and it still > puzzles me why people keep bringing up wayland. I've been running > wayland for years, and synaptic works with no issues as far as I can > tell. Is this just FUD from a user that never tried it or is something > broken on that user's system? > A couple of years ago, I switched to Wayland temporarily and was unable to run Synaptic (with an error message). The phenomenon is real. I don't know how you manage it. But I don't recall anyone on this thread besides you claiming it could be done. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: package managers problem
On Tue, 20 Jun 2023 16:52:47 +0200 Anders Andersson wrote: > I don't have synaptic in the path, but the icon is setup to start a > program that *is* in my path: synaptic-pkexec > > Maybe you can try that, I think that's responsible for asking about > your password. /usr/bin/synaptic-pkexec is a shell script which runs /usr/sbin/synaptic as root, using the pkexec program. I don't know anything about pkexec, but it looks like it's a substitute for sudo in cases like this. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: package managers problem
On Tue, 20 Jun 2023 10:51:13 -0400 gene heskett wrote: [snip] > Probably you're running Synaptic on Wayland with root permission. > Please restart your session without Wayland, or run Synaptic without > root permission Thank you. That's the error I saw when I tried this some time back under Wayland. So I gave up on Synaptic on Wayland. I'm not going to stop my GUI session to run Synaptic (without Wayland), and Synaptic run as a regular user is useless, except to search for things. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: package managers problem
On Tue, 20 Jun 2023 14:15:19 -0400 gene heskett wrote: [snip] > gene@coyote:/usr/local/bin$ pkexec /usr/sbin/synaptic > Invalid MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 keyUnable to init server: Could not > connect: Connection refused > Failed to initialize GTK. > > Probably you're running Synaptic on Wayland with root permission. > Please restart your session without Wayland, or run Synaptic without > root permission > > which might work if it wasn't for the invalid magic cookie, so how do > I get an accceptable version of that? > No one's really broken down that initial error message. I think it's some sort of red herring. I don't think it's actually a "magic cookie" thing. I suspect something else is going on. For example, it also says it can't initialize GTK. Why? Does Synaptic rely on GTK libraries which aren't present? I don't know the answer; I'm just asking questions. And what server is it unable to "init"? Can you run other GUI apps with sudo? Unfortunately, I on Xorg, so I can test what you're talking about. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: package managers problem
On Tue, 20 Jun 2023 20:39:35 + Andy Smith wrote: [snip] > > Please do not encourage Gene's fetish of running GUI apps as root. > Plenty of people have been wasting their time trying to tell him not > to do that for years now, and the last thing they need is bystanders > handing him a different bore of firearm to aim at his foot. > I understand not running, say, VLC as root. But Synaptic? It allows you to search, install and remove packages. Two of those things can't be done without root permissions. I absolutely run it as root. Apparently the broader dictum is "never run GUI apps as root". Why? What's special about GUI apps versus those you run in a terminal? Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: package managers problem
On Tue, 20 Jun 2023 17:56:36 -0400 gene heskett wrote: > Like firefox, its big and complex, but unlike > gedit has never trashed a file for me, gedit has ruined so many I > finally banned it from my machines, all of them. Vim for the win! (kidding) Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: package managers problem
On Tue, 20 Jun 2023 18:12:56 -0400 Greg Wooledge wrote: [snip] > 1) Have a root password. SET A FUCKING ROOT PASSWORD. Seriously. Do that, and there are those who will harangue you for it. Sadly, people who argue either way know more than I do about these security matters. And because expert opinions vary, I don't take either one seriously. For the record, though, I always set a root password. Just in case it's ever needed. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: package managers problem
On Tue, 20 Jun 2023 17:03:24 -0400 Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Tue, Jun 20, 2023 at 04:56:39PM -0400, pa...@quillandmouse.com > wrote: > > Apparently the broader dictum is "never run GUI apps as root". Why? > > What's special about GUI apps versus those you run in a terminal? > > The extreme example is a web browser. Your typical web browser > probably has thousands of bugs in it. > > GUI apps are big and complicated. Running them with elevated > privileges is just asking for problems. > So this isn't anything specific, but a general concern for what GUI apps may be doing behind your back, because they are so complex. > In a sensible design, the GUI part would run as you, and it would send > requests to a daemon that runs as root, or simply issue shell commands > with "sudo" or something, to do the parts that need extra privs. > I infer that Synaptic, by requiring root privileges to be truly useful, is mis-designed, since there isn't a daemon executing root level commands in the background. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
