Upgrading clients using rsync

[Paul van der Vlis]

Hello,

I have successfully upgraded clients from Debian7 to Debian8 using rysnc.

First I did a fresh new install with Debian8 on a client.
Then I used rsync to make a backup of that to the server.

After that I used rsync again to sync this backup to a Debian7 client,
with some excludes. Rsync did not give errors, SSH did still work after
the sync.

It was neccessary to do an "update-grub" (for the UUID of the root
partition), and a "grub-install", because of the new grub version in
Debian 8.

After a reboot of the client everything worked fine.

This are the scripts I used on the server:
https://vandervlis.nl/files/backup-client8
https://vandervlis.nl/files/sync-client8

I think this is interesting for upgrading, but it's also interesting to
keep clients identical after bigger changes. Maybe even as an
alternative for Puppet.

With regards,
Paul van der Vlis.



-- 
Paul van der Vlis Linux systeembeheer, Groningen
http://www.vandervlis.nl/


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Re: xfce 4.12 in Debian.

[Chris Bannister]

On Wed, Mar 04, 2015 at 07:17:46AM +0100, xavi wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Does somebody know when xfce4.12 will be arrive to Debian? And, where can I
> look this for xfce4.12 or other packages? Is there some kind of calendar for
> packages?

You can use 'apt-cache search  to search for packages, or
use http://packages.debian.org.

You *could* ask the maintainers of the xfce4 packages, and ask them, you
never know, they might be working on it right now. :)

-- 
I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she
must be quiet. Timothy 2:12


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Re: Upgrading clients using rsync

[Catalin Soare]

On Mar 4, 2015 12:24 PM, "Paul van der Vlis"  wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I have successfully upgraded clients from Debian7 to Debian8 using rysnc.
>
> First I did a fresh new install with Debian8 on a client.
> Then I used rsync to make a backup of that to the server.
>
> After that I used rsync again to sync this backup to a Debian7 client,
> with some excludes. Rsync did not give errors, SSH did still work after
> the sync.
>
> It was neccessary to do an "update-grub" (for the UUID of the root
> partition), and a "grub-install", because of the new grub version in
> Debian 8.
>
> After a reboot of the client everything worked fine.
>
> This are the scripts I used on the server:
> https://vandervlis.nl/files/backup-client8
> https://vandervlis.nl/files/sync-client8
>
> I think this is interesting for upgrading, but it's also interesting to
> keep clients identical after bigger changes. Maybe even as an
> alternative for Puppet.
>
> With regards,
> Paul van der Vlis.
>
>
>
> --
> Paul van der Vlis Linux systeembeheer, Groningen
> http://www.vandervlis.nl/
>
>
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>

Thank you for sharing Paul!

May I trouble you with some details about this? I am curious about the
disks setup on your clients, I suppose they're partitioned in a similar
manner. Also what directories did you have to exclude?

Best regards,

--
Sent from my Brick (TM)

Re: xfce 4.12 in Debian.

[Lisi Reisz]

On Wednesday 04 March 2015 11:04:20 Chris Bannister wrote:
> I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she
> must be quiet. Timothy 2:12

Tongue in cheek, I hope??

Lisi


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Re: xfce 4.12 in Debian.

[Greg Madden]

I don't think people who have offensive sigs realize they are harming
others. esp on a tech support list..just sign your name and be done
with it.

greg



On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 2:20 AM, Lisi Reisz  wrote:
> On Wednesday 04 March 2015 11:04:20 Chris Bannister wrote:
>> I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she
>> must be quiet. Timothy 2:12
>
> Tongue in cheek, I hope??
>
> Lisi
>
>
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>



-- 
Peace

Greg Madden


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Re: xfce 4.12 in Debian.

[Ron]

On Wed, 4 Mar 2015 11:20:10 +
Lisi Reisz  wrote:

> > I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she
> > must be quiet. Timothy 2:12  
> 
> Tongue in cheek, I hope??

ISTR that the misogynist apostle was writing to a culture where wifes remained 
at home, and the only women who would speak in public were the prostitutes...
 
Cheers,
 
Ron.
-- 
The problem with an honest day's work,
 is that you get an honest day's pay for it.
-- Edward "Blackbeard" Teach

   -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org --
 


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Re: Upgrading clients using rsync

[Paul van der Vlis]

Op 04-03-15 om 12:04 schreef Catalin Soare:

> May I trouble you with some details about this? I am curious about the
> disks setup on your clients, I suppose they're partitioned in a similar
> manner. 

Yes, that's right. Root is always "/dev/sda1" and swap is always
"/dev/sda5" at this customer. The hardware is very different.

> Also what directories did you have to exclude?

Take a look at the scripts what I use. You can exactly see there what I
exclude while backupping and while overwriting the client.
The last script is most interesting.

https://vandervlis.nl/files/backup-client8
https://vandervlis.nl/files/sync-client8

With regards,
Paul van der Vlis.



-- 
Paul van der Vlis Linux systeembeheer, Groningen
http://www.vandervlis.nl/


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Re: Upgrading clients using rsync

[Pol Hallen]

Nice work Paul!
Thanks :-)

Pol

On 03/04/2015 11:24 AM, Paul van der Vlis wrote:

Hello,

I have successfully upgraded clients from Debian7 to Debian8 using rysnc.

First I did a fresh new install with Debian8 on a client.
Then I used rsync to make a backup of that to the server.

After that I used rsync again to sync this backup to a Debian7 client,
with some excludes. Rsync did not give errors, SSH did still work after
the sync.

It was neccessary to do an "update-grub" (for the UUID of the root
partition), and a "grub-install", because of the new grub version in
Debian 8.

After a reboot of the client everything worked fine.

This are the scripts I used on the server:
https://vandervlis.nl/files/backup-client8
https://vandervlis.nl/files/sync-client8

I think this is interesting for upgrading, but it's also interesting to
keep clients identical after bigger changes. Maybe even as an
alternative for Puppet.

With regards,
Paul van der Vlis.






--
Pol


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Re: Upgrading clients using rsync

[Paul van der Vlis]

Op 04-03-15 om 12:04 schreef Catalin Soare:

> I suppose they're partitioned in a similar manner. 

All clients are using CSM [1], what emulates a legacy BIOS.
Or don't have UEFI.

I have not tested this with UEFI, maybe it would need some extra
tweeking and excludes.

With regards,
Paul van der Vlis.

[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Extensible_Firmware_Interface#CSM_booting


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http://www.vandervlis.nl/


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Re: xfce 4.12

[Pol Hallen]

PD: sí, ho fatto la stessa domanda sulla mailing list debian-user ma li'
direi che non mi hanno risposto, in un modo educato, ma non mi hanno
risposto.


Chris ti ha risposto dicendo di chiedere al manutentore del pacchetto :-)

reportbug xfce

dovresti seguire gli sviluppi direttamente dalla ML di xfce (io sono 
nella tua stessa situazione con mate: ho segnalato diversi bug e 
wishlist ma "non ci sentono")


saluti

Pol


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server monitor

[Pol Hallen]

Hi all :-)

I'm looking for a tool that generates a report (daily, weekly, etc.) 
with the statistics of resources (loadavg, cpu/mem/disk resources, etc.) 
of server (no IDS).


I discovered sars (but I yet didn't test it), munin is nice but I need 
something with email reports (no web interface).


Any idea or advices?

monit is a good tool but does not keep older time resources.

thanks for help!

Pol


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Re: server monitor

[Kevin LE HEN]

Hi,

I'm thinking of this http://nicolargo.github.io/glances/ but I don't know
if you can generates reports. I'm pretty sure it can be done with some
developments.

Regards,

2015-03-04 15:18 GMT+01:00 Pol Hallen :

> Hi all :-)
>
> I'm looking for a tool that generates a report (daily, weekly, etc.) with
> the statistics of resources (loadavg, cpu/mem/disk resources, etc.) of
> server (no IDS).
>
> I discovered sars (but I yet didn't test it), munin is nice but I need
> something with email reports (no web interface).
>
> Any idea or advices?
>
> monit is a good tool but does not keep older time resources.
>
> thanks for help!
>
> Pol
>
>
> --
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>
>


-- 
Kévin LE HEN

Re: server monitor

[Miles Fidelman]

Pol Hallen wrote:

Hi all :-)

I'm looking for a tool that generates a report (daily, weekly, etc.) 
with the statistics of resources (loadavg, cpu/mem/disk resources, 
etc.) of server (no IDS).


I discovered sars (but I yet didn't test it), munin is nice but I need 
something with email reports (no web interface).


Any idea or advices?



What I do is simply run a daily cron job that generates reports from 
things like dstat, iostat, vmstat, etc. -- mix and match various tools 
to your heart's content.  "apropos resource" is a good start for finding 
all the tools you can start with.


Miles Fidelman


--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.    Yogi Berra


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Re: Question about GRUB recovery using Debian 7.x LiveCD

[Bret Busby]

On 04/03/2015, Paul E Condon  wrote:
> On 20150228_1557-0500, Ric Moore wrote:
>> On 02/28/2015 03:42 PM, Brian wrote:
>> >On Sat 28 Feb 2015 at 15:14:19 -0500, Ric Moore wrote:
>> >
>> >>On 02/28/2015 03:06 PM, Brian wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>Relenting, somewhat. I cannot stand the pain which comes from watching
>> >>>someone struggle. :)
>> >>>
>> >>>e2label(8).
>> >>
>> >>I often trust the opinion of our" hive-mind" more than I do a man
>> >>page. I hate to blow up something working. :) Ric
>> >
>> >Very understandable. I do not think adding LABEL to your system would
>> >particularly give you anything which do not have already.
>> >
>> >I use it with USB sticks which move from machine to machine, The UUID
>> >may change but the LABEL doesn't. Debian always boots.
>> >
>> >Having said that, I do not think labelling with e2label would cause
>> >your system to go into "blow up" mode and the UUID is is still there.
>> >Changing means trusting my judgement. Ignoring the advice means you
>> >can sleep well at nights.
>>
>> There is that to consider as well. Next time I install fresh might be a
>> better time to play with labels! :) Ric
>
> I can't recall for sure, but I think OP is concerned about LABELing the
> swap partition. A swap partition is NOT an extN formatted region of
> the block-special device. e2label fails to find a superblock on a swap
> partition on my jessie machine and I'm not a bit surprised at learning
> that ;-O
>
> Also blkid displays a "PARTUUID" in addition to the familiar UUID for
> all the partitions on the internal hard drive on my jessie machine.
> This "PARTUUID" has fewer hex digits than a the 'real' UUID. It looks
> as if there is a lot of new conventional to be learn by people who
> have learned on Linux internals long ago. Or maybe I'm the last to
> learn about this innovation.
>
> Cheers,
>
> --
> Paul E Condon
> pecon...@mesanetworks.net
>


No, it was not about labelling the swap partition.

The original posting, was, I believe, seeking stepwise instructions
for recovery of the GRUB multi-OS selection bootloader, using the
Debian LiveCD.

The context from which the references to the labelling arose, related
to the partitions showing UUID's, rather than device names, and, not
showing the partition labels that had been set, thence, not indicating
into which partitions, the operating systems had been installed, or,
which had been, prior to the installation of the trojan horse
operating system, the partition that had the GRUB configuration
installed, for the reinstallation of the GRUB multi-OS selection
bootloader.

In trying to restore GRUB, a question was asked, that was something
like "Into which of the following partitions, do you want the root
system installed", and, the list there, was /dev/sda, with no
partition labels.

Neither that screen, nor the one that showed the partitions,
identified using the UUID's (which, to a user like me, in the context
of trying to restore the GRUB multi-OS selection bootloader, are
meaningless, and, as useful as listing the subatomic particles, or the
elements of the Periodic Table), showed the labels that had been set
for the partitions, and so, did not show into which partition, each of
the operating systems had been installed.

So, the problem remains unresolved, and the issues involved, have been
buried by the other material that has been posted in the thread, and
it is all now confused.

And, as it has all become so complicated and difficult, with the
difficulties of life with which I have to deal, it all (trying to fix
the particular computer system, to get it operational again) has to
wait, until I can find time to deal with it further.

-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
 Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
 "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
 A Trilogy In Four Parts",
 written by Douglas Adams,
 published by Pan Books, 1992




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Re: xfce 4.12 in Debian.

[Go Linux]

On Wed, 3/4/15, xavi  wrote:

 Subject: xfce 4.12 in Debian.
 To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
 Date: Wednesday, March 4, 2015, 12:17 AM
 
> Hi,
>
>Does somebody know when xfce4.12 will be arrive to Debian? And, where
>can I look this for xfce4.12 or other packages? Is there some kind of
>calendar for packages?
>
>Thanks and sorry for my english :^)
>
>Have a nice day!
>



It's unlikely that xfce4.12 will be available in Debian Jessie - maybe in the 
backports.  But it looks like it will be the default DE in Devuan Jessie . . . 
depotterized of course.   ;)

golinux


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Re: Question about GRUB recovery using Debian 7.x LiveCD

[Lisi Reisz]

On Wednesday 04 March 2015 16:03:28 Bret Busby wrote:
> Neither that screen, nor the one that showed the partitions,
> identified using the UUID's (which, to a user like me, in the context
> of trying to restore the GRUB multi-OS selection bootloader, are
> meaningless, and, as useful as listing the subatomic particles, or the
> elements of the Periodic Table), showed the labels that had been set
> for the partitions, and so, did not show into which partition, each of
> the operating systems had been installed.

So you had, in fact, set labels for the partitions?  And it just wasn't 
showing them?

Had you edited fstab to show them?

Lisi


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Re: Looking for document and file organisation tools

[Jonathan Dowland]

Excellent question. I think one best-in-class tool that is useful for all types
of files is the holy grail. However, there are quite good tools in specific
domains, for example photo-management tools, so if you break the job up into
sub-tasks based on file type (e.g.: photos; music; videos) you may have some
success.

Advice for some examples? Tricky! I don't currently have a favourite for any
of these. I didn't like F-spot very much; I quite like shotwell, but I haven't
tried it since I got a camera that shoots RAW; I don't like basically any music
manager on Linux (but 'beets' looks promising).


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Re: Question about GRUB recovery using Debian 7.x LiveCD

[David Wright]

Quoting Bret Busby (bret.bu...@gmail.com):
> 
> Neither that screen, nor the one that showed the partitions,
> identified using the UUID's (which, to a user like me, in the context
> of trying to restore the GRUB multi-OS selection bootloader, are
> meaningless, and, as useful as listing the subatomic particles, or the
> elements of the Periodic Table), showed the labels that had been set
> for the partitions, and so, did not show into which partition, each of
> the operating systems had been installed.

I think UUIDs are here to stay, whether or not you supplement them,
as I do, with LABELs or whatever. In my case, Debian poked them in my
eye when they suddenly appeared in the output of df, causing the
interesting part to be half-wrapped around the screen. In turn that
was caused by their use in the newly installed /etc/fstab in place
of the old /dev/sdaX etc. That's going back some years.

With hot plugging and so on, you really can't get away with /dev/...
any more unless you want to accidently reformat the wrong partition.
And not everyone sets LABELs, so there's not much choice. As long as
you don't clone a partition without changing the UUID, and you don't
subvert UUID generation, they're unique and safe.

And Grub is a prime candidate for their use, what with all the options
for swapping drives around in the BIOS, partitions numbered in the
wrong order etc.

Cheers,
David.


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32bit grub??

[Ric Moore]

Is grub natively 32bit?? It worries me to see the notice that I'm 
booting 32bit grub when my system is otherwise clean of 32bit. Is there 
a 64bit version?? I'm sure not seeing one. Ric

--
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html


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Re: xfce 4.12 in Debian.

[xavi]

On 04/03/15 17:17, Go Linux wrote:





It's unlikely that xfce4.12 will be available in Debian Jessie - maybe in the 
backports.  But it looks like it will be the default DE in Devuan Jessie . . . 
depotterized of course.   ;)

Hi,

My best wishes to all the people of DeVUAn, good luck in their job, good 
election in their default DE . I don't like Gnome neither Systemd. But I 
don't want to talk about Gnome or Systemd, this is not the point of this 
thread (I think that this is not the point of the mailing list, but it 
is only my personal opinion). I think that I prefer remain with Debian, 
(but maybe with Xfce 4.12 soon?). That's all :)


And people who uses Debian knows that some times we must wait to have 
some good software...





golinux




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Re: Question about GRUB recovery using Debian 7.x LiveCD

[Brian]

On Thu 05 Mar 2015 at 00:03:28 +0800, Bret Busby wrote:

> No, it was not about labelling the swap partition.
> 
> The original posting, was, I believe, seeking stepwise instructions
> for recovery of the GRUB multi-OS selection bootloader, using the
> Debian LiveCD.

My recollection is that you got detailed instructions.
 
> The context from which the references to the labelling arose, related
> to the partitions showing UUID's, rather than device names, and, not
> showing the partition labels that had been set, thence, not indicating
> into which partitions, the operating systems had been installed, or,
> which had been, prior to the installation of the trojan horse
> operating system, the partition that had the GRUB configuration
> installed, for the reinstallation of the GRUB multi-OS selection
> bootloader.
> 
> In trying to restore GRUB, a question was asked, that was something
> like "Into which of the following partitions, do you want the root
> system installed", and, the list there, was /dev/sda, with no
> partition labels.

"something like" isn't good enough.

> Neither that screen, nor the one that showed the partitions,
> identified using the UUID's (which, to a user like me, in the context
> of trying to restore the GRUB multi-OS selection bootloader, are
> meaningless, and, as useful as listing the subatomic particles, or the
> elements of the Periodic Table), showed the labels that had been set
> for the partitions, and so, did not show into which partition, each of
> the operating systems had been installed.

You were advised on how to identify the operating system on a partition.

> So, the problem remains unresolved, and the issues involved, have been
> buried by the other material that has been posted in the thread, and
> it is all now confused.
> 
> And, as it has all become so complicated and difficult, with the
> difficulties of life with which I have to deal, it all (trying to fix
> the particular computer system, to get it operational again) has to
> wait, until I can find time to deal with it further.

When you do get to deal with it you will find the advice you have been
given very useful.


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Re: Question about GRUB recovery using Debian 7.x LiveCD

[Cindy-Sue Causey]

On 3/4/15, David Wright  wrote:
>
> With hot plugging and so on, you really can't get away with /dev/...
> any more unless you want to accidently reformat the wrong partition.
> And not everyone sets LABELs, so there's not much choice. As long as
> you don't clone a partition without changing the UUID, and you don't
> subvert UUID generation, they're unique and safe.
>
> And Grub is a prime candidate for their use, what with all the options
> for swapping drives around in the BIOS, partitions numbered in the
> wrong order etc.


*BINGO!* It sounds like you and I learned about their existence,
probably more like their application, in a similar way. For me, list
members here talked about them a couple times within a mass of emails
at that moment in time. All that stuck for me then was the term was
recognizable when that mile long value was finally likewise plopped
front and center by something I was doing. That was my *ah-ha* moment
for UUID.

I LOVE THEM now.. I use them in the few places where there's that
*_CHOICE_* because they are SO specific. And I use them for reasons
that I'm gathering are already being said, that specific-ness means
less chance of getting wires crossed somewhere.

As far as them working within GRUB, they work SO WELL within the GRUB
process that my system booted up into and then functioned
fabulously from within the wrong partition a few months back.

Think I mentioned this on here not too long ago. Something felt hinky
during that session so I nosed around. Turned out I was working in an
old partition instead of the a-sumed new install. I THINK how it went
was GRUB started with the correct partition then /etc/fstab pointed
the correct partition towards using a different, wrong one.

Fix was to simply change the UUID values in /etc/fstab. "lshw" (as
root) is my favorite tool for quickly determining UUIDs as necessary.
The reason is that lshw offers several different types of information
that let me *cognitively* grasp and therefore confidently confirm I
really am dealing with the correct partition at any given moment in
time.

Have fun, whichever *_CHOICE_* you make! :)

Cindy :)

-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* trying to catch up to speed while operating ~4 weeks behind *


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Re: Question about GRUB recovery using Debian 7.x LiveCD

[Brian]

On Wed 04 Mar 2015 at 16:13:03 +, Lisi Reisz wrote:

> On Wednesday 04 March 2015 16:03:28 Bret Busby wrote:
> > Neither that screen, nor the one that showed the partitions,
> > identified using the UUID's (which, to a user like me, in the context
> > of trying to restore the GRUB multi-OS selection bootloader, are
> > meaningless, and, as useful as listing the subatomic particles, or the
> > elements of the Periodic Table), showed the labels that had been set
> > for the partitions, and so, did not show into which partition, each of
> > the operating systems had been installed.
> 
> So you had, in fact, set labels for the partitions?  And it just wasn't 
> showing them?

I think he is saying the partitions were identified (as they are) but
not with UUIDs or LABELs. It was an expectation.

> Had you edited fstab to show them?

LABELs exist (or do not exist) independently of what is in fstab. The
system has not yet booted into an OS so fstab is not yet read.


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xsane: saving by ext

[Pierre Frenkiel]

hi everybody,
in the old times, it was possible, in xsane, to save "by ext":
As explained on the xsane web site:
by ext means that the filetype is selected by the extension
of the filename.
This is still the default when I click the save button, but
since some time (I didn't notice exactly when) , I get, for
any extension:
   Unknown file format for saving
I must then choose explicitly the filetype (JPEG,...) but I
didn't find any way to save this choice in the preferences.

xsane version: 0.998-6

Has anybody the same problem?

best regards,
--
Pierre Frenkiel


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Debian in small/medium business

[Victor Charles]

Good day.
I'm fairly new to Linux but love it.
However, I could use some advice regarding the use of Linux in business.
I'm starting my own spares business soon and will be using a Linux
compatible Point of Sale system on about 5-6 desktop computers to begin
with.
I am impressed with SUSE Linux Enterprise  Point of Sale (SLEPOS) but I'm
sure Debian 7 or (soon) Debian 8 can perform the same functions, if not
better.
Anyone have experience with Debian in business or have any recommendations?
Thank you.
Regards.
Victor

Working minimally with pulseaudio

[Joel Roth]

For those who need PA for something, this configuration
makes it possible to get audio output from pulseonly apps.

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/PulseAudio/Examples#PulseAudio_as_a_minimal_unintrusive_dumb_pipe_to_ALSA

I am impressed with the quality of the Arch documentation.

These instructions worked for me (on sid) first time,
testing minimal output from one ALSA client (Ecasound) and
one PA client (mpv).

I did notice that there were some pops when playing ALSA and
PA players simultaneously. I did not test this configuration
further, and do not seek to optimize it.  

cheers

-- 
Joel Roth
  


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Re: Debian in small/medium business

[Dan Ritter]

On Wed, Mar 04, 2015 at 10:51:21AM -0800, Victor Charles wrote:
> Good day.
> I'm fairly new to Linux but love it.
> However, I could use some advice regarding the use of Linux in business.
> I'm starting my own spares business soon and will be using a Linux
> compatible Point of Sale system on about 5-6 desktop computers to begin
> with.
> I am impressed with SUSE Linux Enterprise  Point of Sale (SLEPOS) but I'm
> sure Debian 7 or (soon) Debian 8 can perform the same functions, if not
> better.
> Anyone have experience with Debian in business or have any recommendations?
> Thank you.
> Regards.
> Victor


The best distribution for you is the one that you have the most
support for.

If someone is selling you a POS system, then they should be
supplying support.

If you're building a POS system, you should evaluate the
relative communities and support organizations.

-dsr-


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Re: Question about GRUB recovery using Debian 7.x LiveCD

[David Wright]

Quoting Brian (a...@cityscape.co.uk):
> On Wed 04 Mar 2015 at 16:13:03 +, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> 
> > On Wednesday 04 March 2015 16:03:28 Bret Busby wrote:
> > > Neither that screen, nor the one that showed the partitions,
> > > identified using the UUID's (which, to a user like me, in the context
> > > of trying to restore the GRUB multi-OS selection bootloader, are
> > > meaningless, and, as useful as listing the subatomic particles, or the
> > > elements of the Periodic Table), showed the labels that had been set
> > > for the partitions, and so, did not show into which partition, each of
> > > the operating systems had been installed.
> > 
> > So you had, in fact, set labels for the partitions?  And it just wasn't 
> > showing them?
> 
> I think he is saying the partitions were identified (as they are) but
> not with UUIDs or LABELs. It was an expectation.

Hmm. Well it's a long sentence again, but I thought he said they *were*
identified with UUIDs, the 32 character strings which he didn't
originally recognise as such. Going back a few postings, OP wrote:

"I also note that (after taking about an hour, to remove the Debian 7.8
installer iso "removable media" disk from the computer, that, like
Ubuntu, the Debian 7.6 LXDE LiveCD does not, using the file manager,
show Properties for partitions, and, in opening a partition, to show
its contents, whows at the top of the tab,
   as the partition identifier, a string about 32 characters long,
that has no relevance
or application, to the Debian Linux 7.8 installation iso image, rescue
mode, list of partitions, from which to select, to install the root
system."

Of course, I'm only guessing, not knowing what characters the
aforesaid strings were composed of.

Cheers,
David.


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Re: 32bit grub??

[Darac Marjal]

On Wed, Mar 04, 2015 at 01:33:19PM -0500, Ric Moore wrote:
> Is grub natively 32bit?? It worries me to see the notice that I'm booting
> 32bit grub when my system is otherwise clean of 32bit. Is there a 64bit
> version?? I'm sure not seeing one. Ric

grub-pc is 32-bit. grub-efi-* is, however, available in amd64 and ia32
variants. I don't know if the version used depends on your firmware,
though, or if you can independently choose one or the other.

> -- 
> My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
> "There are two Great Sins in the world...
> ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
> Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
> http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html
> 
> 
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> 


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Description: Digital signature

My Friends Make Fun of My UI

[Stephen R Guglielmo]

Hi list,

I use LXDE on my Jessie laptop. I chose this desktop environment
because I don't want a lot of "stuff" on my system. Everything there is
essentially installed by me. I have Iceweasel, Claws-Mail, another GUI
program or two, but that's it. Everything else, I do in a terminal. I
even use Iceweasel to open the occasional PDF I come across
(eliminating the need for another PDF viewer). I suppose I'm a
minimalist in this sense.

I would like to upgrade to Gnome so my desktop looks/feels a bit nicer
and gain a few extra features I'm missing in LXDE. However, I don't
want all the "stuff" that normally comes with Gnome.

I have no use for:
-GUI login screen/session manager
-NetworkManager
-GUI package manager
-GUI text editor
-Chat/Contacts/Keyring manager
-Photo manager
I think you get the idea by now.

I did a bit of reading and would prefer the Gnome "Classic" interface.
Is there a way to install this type of "minimal" gnome without breaking
it too much? Is it even possible to do, or does it all depend on one
another?


pgpQRYFTrGslF.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: My Friends Make Fun of My UI

[Dan Ritter]

On Wed, Mar 04, 2015 at 04:03:30PM -0500, Stephen R Guglielmo wrote:
> Hi list,
> 
> I use LXDE on my Jessie laptop. I chose this desktop environment
> because I don't want a lot of "stuff" on my system. Everything there is
> essentially installed by me. I have Iceweasel, Claws-Mail, another GUI
> program or two, but that's it. Everything else, I do in a terminal. I
> even use Iceweasel to open the occasional PDF I come across
> (eliminating the need for another PDF viewer). I suppose I'm a
> minimalist in this sense.
> 
> I would like to upgrade to Gnome so my desktop looks/feels a bit nicer
> and gain a few extra features I'm missing in LXDE. However, I don't
> want all the "stuff" that normally comes with Gnome.
> 
> I have no use for:
> -GUI login screen/session manager
> -NetworkManager
> -GUI package manager
> -GUI text editor
> -Chat/Contacts/Keyring manager
> -Photo manager
> I think you get the idea by now.
> 
> I did a bit of reading and would prefer the Gnome "Classic" interface.
> Is there a way to install this type of "minimal" gnome without breaking
> it too much? Is it even possible to do, or does it all depend on one
> another?

I bet you'd be pretty happy with XFCE.

-dsr-


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Re: My Friends Make Fun of My UI

[Martin Vegter]

On 03/04/2015 10:03 PM, Stephen R Guglielmo wrote:
> 
> I did a bit of reading and would prefer the Gnome "Classic" interface.
> Is there a way to install this type of "minimal" gnome without breaking
> it too much? Is it even possible to do, or does it all depend on one
> another?
> 

Gnome is overbloated "by design". If you want minimalistic desktop
environment, LXDE is a good choice. What are you missing in LXDE? You
can install individual packages from Gnome/KDE/...

Martin


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Re: My Friends Make Fun of My UI

[Doug]

On 03/04/2015 04:03 PM, Stephen R Guglielmo wrote:

Hi list,

I use LXDE on my Jessie laptop. I chose this desktop environment
because I don't want a lot of "stuff" on my system. Everything there is
essentially installed by me. I have Iceweasel, Claws-Mail, another GUI
program or two, but that's it. Everything else, I do in a terminal. I
even use Iceweasel to open the occasional PDF I come across
(eliminating the need for another PDF viewer). I suppose I'm a
minimalist in this sense.

I would like to upgrade to Gnome so my desktop looks/feels a bit nicer
and gain a few extra features I'm missing in LXDE. However, I don't
want all the "stuff" that normally comes with Gnome.

I have no use for:
-GUI login screen/session manager
-NetworkManager
-GUI package manager
-GUI text editor
-Chat/Contacts/Keyring manager
-Photo manager
I think you get the idea by now.

I did a bit of reading and would prefer the Gnome "Classic" interface.
Is there a way to install this type of "minimal" gnome without breaking
it too much? Is it even possible to do, or does it all depend on one
another?


I think maybe you need to look into some other distros, I think there are still
a couple that rely mostly on command-line. What is Slackware doing lately?
Or Scientific Linux? You could Google for command-line Linux or something like 
that.
I think BCD is also kind of minimal, but when I tried to run it dual-booted,
it didn't seem to like to share filesystems--or something. I never got it to 
work.

--doug


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Re: My Friends Make Fun of My UI

[Erwan David]

Le 04/03/2015 22:03, Stephen R Guglielmo a écrit :
> Hi list,
>
> I use LXDE on my Jessie laptop. I chose this desktop environment
> because I don't want a lot of "stuff" on my system. Everything there is
> essentially installed by me. I have Iceweasel, Claws-Mail, another GUI
> program or two, but that's it. Everything else, I do in a terminal. I
> even use Iceweasel to open the occasional PDF I come across
> (eliminating the need for another PDF viewer). I suppose I'm a
> minimalist in this sense.
>
> I would like to upgrade to Gnome so my desktop looks/feels a bit nicer
> and gain a few extra features I'm missing in LXDE. However, I don't
> want all the "stuff" that normally comes with Gnome.
>
> I have no use for:
> -GUI login screen/session manager
> -NetworkManager
> -GUI package manager
> -GUI text editor
> -Chat/Contacts/Keyring manager
> -Photo manager
> I think you get the idea by now.
>
> I did a bit of reading and would prefer the Gnome "Classic" interface.
> Is there a way to install this type of "minimal" gnome without breaking
> it too much? Is it even possible to do, or does it all depend on one
> another?

XFCE is often cited as a lighter version of gnome. Did you have a look
at it ?




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Re: Keyboard layouts in GNOME3 on Debian Jessie

[Selim T . Erdoğan]

On Mon, Mar 02, 2015 at 08:27:32AM +0100, Eugen Wintersberger wrote:
> Hi folks 
>   I have tow rather fresh (about 3 weeks old) Debian 8 installations:
> one on a desktop system and one on a Lenovo T440s. On both systems a US
> keyboard is used. Although the US keyboards are great for writing code,
> I sometimes have to write German on both machines. Thus, I was quite
> happy to find a rather interesting layout on the desktop system
> 
> German (US keyboard layout with German letters)
> 
> available in the "Region and Language" settings of GNOME 3. Surprisingly
> I could not find this layout on the Laptop installation. 
> Does anyone of you have an idea which package I am missing on the laptop
> system? 
> I could not find a relevant difference between the two installations.
> 
> best regards
>   Eugen

Searching for "German letters" at http://codesearch.debian.net, I found
three candidates: xkb-data, libxkbcommon-x11-0, libxkbcommon0.
Let the list know if you have any luck...


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Re: Debian in small/medium business

[Paul van der Vlis]

Op 04-03-15 om 19:51 schreef Victor Charles:
> Good day.
> I'm fairly new to Linux but love it.
> However, I could use some advice regarding the use of Linux in business.
> I'm starting my own spares business soon and will be using a Linux
> compatible Point of Sale system on about 5-6 desktop computers to begin
> with.
> I am impressed with SUSE Linux Enterprise  Point of Sale (SLEPOS) but
> I'm sure Debian 7 or (soon) Debian 8 can perform the same functions, if
> not better.
> Anyone have experience with Debian in business or have any recommendations?

Debian works fine. I have 12 years experience with it as a system
administrator and daily user. Before that I've used Suse 3 years.

Realize that Debian 7 is older software now, it will have some problems
on new hardware. You can fix them in many cases by using backports.

Better use Debian 8, you can download the release candidate here:
https://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/

Configuring it to work together on the same files is not really easy.
Try to find somebody with experience who can help you.

I've used many years the Gnome desktop, but I am not really happy with
it the last time. I would advice you to take a look at the Cinnamon desktop.

I have no experience with POS sofware.

With regards,
Paul van der Vlis.


-- 
Paul van der Vlis Linux systeembeheer, Groningen
http://www.vandervlis.nl/


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Re: Upgrading clients using rsync

[Bob Proulx]

Paul van der Vlis wrote:
> I have successfully upgraded clients from Debian7 to Debian8 using rysnc.

You have company using rsync to upgrade file by file.  Google upgrades
that way too.  I liked presentation and found it quite interesting.

  
http://marc.merlins.org/perso/linux/post_2014-01-06_My-Live-Upgrading-Many-Thousands-of-Servers-ProdNG-talk-at-Linux_conf_au-2014.html

Unfortunately the original paper is now 403 forbidden.  I think that
is likely a mistake somewhere.  But the Internet Archive Wayback
Machine has a copy if you want to browse it.

  
https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://marc.merlins.org/linux/talks/ProdNG-LCA2014/Paper/ProdNG.pdf

Bob


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Re: My Friends Make Fun of My UI

[Charles Kroeger]

On Wed, 04 Mar 2015 22:30:05 +0100
Erwan David  wrote:

> I would like to upgrade to Gnome so my desktop looks/feels a bit nicer

You seem to be saying you're tired of the minimalist life and want
to splash out a bit so there's only XFCE for that. That would be the next step
up from LXDE. Before getting a heavier DE you might try first these WM's:

Enlightenment IceWM Openbox Blackbox Fluxbox

They're lighter than LXDE. I've had experience with Fluxbox on a less powerful
machine five years back and it was good for what you 'say' you want.

-- 
CK

 


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Re: 32bit grub??

[Pascal Hambourg]

Darac Marjal a écrit :
> 
> grub-pc is 32-bit. grub-efi-* is, however, available in amd64 and ia32
> variants. I don't know if the version used depends on your firmware,

It does. grub-efi-ia32 won't work with the PC's 64-bit UEFI firmwares.
AFAIK, it works only with some old Intel Mac which have a 32-bit UEFI.


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Re: My Friends Make Fun of My UI

[Jasper Noë]

Usually I install xorg, gnome-session-fallback and gdm3.
No network-manager, no pulse-audio, no nothing actually.
From there you can build it up.


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Re: Question about GRUB recovery using Debian 7.x LiveCD

[Brian]

On Wed 04 Mar 2015 at 14:32:19 -0600, David Wright wrote:

> Quoting Brian (a...@cityscape.co.uk):
> > On Wed 04 Mar 2015 at 16:13:03 +, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > 
> > > On Wednesday 04 March 2015 16:03:28 Bret Busby wrote:
> > > > Neither that screen, nor the one that showed the partitions,
> > > > identified using the UUID's (which, to a user like me, in the context
> > > > of trying to restore the GRUB multi-OS selection bootloader, are
> > > > meaningless, and, as useful as listing the subatomic particles, or the
> > > > elements of the Periodic Table), showed the labels that had been set
> > > > for the partitions, and so, did not show into which partition, each of
> > > > the operating systems had been installed.
> > > 
> > > So you had, in fact, set labels for the partitions?  And it just wasn't 
> > > showing them?
> > 
> > I think he is saying the partitions were identified (as they are) but
> > not with UUIDs or LABELs. It was an expectation.
> 
> Hmm. Well it's a long sentence again, but I thought he said they *were*
> identified with UUIDs, the 32 character strings which he didn't
> originally recognise as such. Going back a few postings, OP wrote:
> 
> "I also note that (after taking about an hour, to remove the Debian 7.8
> installer iso "removable media" disk from the computer, that, like
> Ubuntu, the Debian 7.6 LXDE LiveCD does not, using the file manager,
> show Properties for partitions, and, in opening a partition, to show
> its contents, whows at the top of the tab,
>as the partition identifier, a string about 32 characters long,
> that has no relevance
> or application, to the Debian Linux 7.8 installation iso image, rescue
> mode, list of partitions, from which to select, to install the root
> system."

This is what was seen when a Live CD was running.

The first quoted section above was (I think) what was seen when the
installer was booted in rescue mode.

Two different things; neither of any great relevance to solving his
problem.



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Strange entry in my routing table.

[Juan R. de Silva]

Here is my routing table:

0.0.0.0   192.168.25.68   0.0.0.0 UG0  00 eth0
192.168.24.0  0.0.0.0 255.255.252.0   U 1  00 eth0

The first entry IS my default gateway as I expected. 

The second line, however, is something I cannot neither recognize nor 
explain. It obviously belongs to something on a different LAN segment, 
which I do not have. I mean I do not have any subnets on my LAN.

I tried to ping 192.168.24.0 with no response.
Trying 'ping -b 192.168.24.255' gives me only my own LAN IP address with 
"Destination Host Unreachable".

The wireless on my router is disabled from GUI interface. The router is 
flashed with dd-wrt. Should I assume my router has been hacked and re-
flash it?

Can somebody help me to understand this, please?


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Re: Strange entry in my routing table.

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 04 March 2015 18:18:08 Juan R. de Silva wrote:
> Here is my routing table:
>
> 0.0.0.0   192.168.25.68   0.0.0.0 UG0  00
> eth0 192.168.24.0  0.0.0.0 255.255.252.0   U 1  0 
>   0 eth0
>
> The first entry IS my default gateway as I expected.
>
> The second line, however, is something I cannot neither recognize nor
> explain. It obviously belongs to something on a different LAN segment,
> which I do not have. I mean I do not have any subnets on my LAN.
>
> I tried to ping 192.168.24.0 with no response.
> Trying 'ping -b 192.168.24.255' gives me only my own LAN IP address
> with "Destination Host Unreachable".
>
> The wireless on my router is disabled from GUI interface. The router
> is flashed with dd-wrt. Should I assume my router has been hacked and
> re- flash it?
>
> Can somebody help me to understand this, please?

That looks 10% legit to me.
Mine:
gene@coyote:~$ sudo route -n
[sudo] password for gene: 
Kernel IP routing table
Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric RefUse Iface
0.0.0.0 192.168.xx.10.0.0.0 UG0  00 eth0
169.254.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.0.0 U 1000   00 eth0
192.168.xx.00.0.0.0 255.255.255.0   U 0  00 eth0

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 


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Re: Strange entry in my routing table.

[Juan R. de Silva]

> That looks 10% legit to me.

10% ? Is it a typo or a joke? :-)


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Re: My Friends Make Fun of My UI

[Glenn English]

On Mar 4, 2015, at 2:03 PM, Stephen R Guglielmo  wrote:

> I would like to upgrade to Gnome so my desktop looks/feels a bit nicer
> and gain a few extra features I'm missing in LXDE. However, I don't
> want all the "stuff" that normally comes with Gnome.

You're fine. You just need to get some new friends.

-- 
Glenn English




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Re: Strange entry in my routing table.

[Matt Ventura]

On 03/04/2015 03:18 PM, Juan R. de Silva wrote:

Here is my routing table:

0.0.0.0   192.168.25.68   0.0.0.0 UG0  00 eth0
192.168.24.0  0.0.0.0 255.255.252.0   U 1  00 eth0

The first entry IS my default gateway as I expected.

The second line, however, is something I cannot neither recognize nor
explain. It obviously belongs to something on a different LAN segment,
which I do not have. I mean I do not have any subnets on my LAN.

I tried to ping 192.168.24.0 with no response.
Trying 'ping -b 192.168.24.255' gives me only my own LAN IP address with
"Destination Host Unreachable".

The wireless on my router is disabled from GUI interface. The router is
flashed with dd-wrt. Should I assume my router has been hacked and re-
flash it?

Can somebody help me to understand this, please?


Looks perfectly fine to me. 192.168.24.0 with a netmask of 255.255.252.0 
(a /22 subnet) means the address range is 192.168.24.0 - 192.168.27.255. 
Both your PC and router are on this network. Generally, an 
internet-connected interface will always have two entries, one for the 
network itself (the second line here) and one for the gateway (the first 
line).



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Re: My Friends Make Fun of My UI

[Patrick Bartek]

On Wed, 04 Mar 2015, Stephen R Guglielmo wrote:

> Hi list,
> 
> I use LXDE on my Jessie laptop. I chose this desktop environment
> because I don't want a lot of "stuff" on my system. Everything there
> is essentially installed by me. I have Iceweasel, Claws-Mail, another
> GUI program or two, but that's it. Everything else, I do in a
> terminal. I even use Iceweasel to open the occasional PDF I come
> across (eliminating the need for another PDF viewer). I suppose I'm a
> minimalist in this sense.
> 
> I would like to upgrade to Gnome so my desktop looks/feels a bit nicer

What exactly do you find wrong with LXDE?  What is missing compared to
other DEs?

I use just a window manager (Openbox), a single panel (LXPanel) at
the bottom, and a backdrop image.  Does everything I need it to do.

> and gain a few extra features I'm missing in LXDE. However, I don't
> want all the "stuff" that normally comes with Gnome.
> 
> I have no use for:
> -GUI login screen/session manager
> -NetworkManager
> -GUI package manager
> -GUI text editor
> -Chat/Contacts/Keyring manager
> -Photo manager
> I think you get the idea by now.

For the most part, when you install GNOME, you get most everything. I
don't think you can install just certain GNOME apps or features as most
everything is a dependency of everything else.  I tried a few years ago
to do just that and failed.  That's one of the reasons I switched to
just a WM.

> I did a bit of reading and would prefer the Gnome "Classic" interface.
> Is there a way to install this type of "minimal" gnome without
> breaking it too much? Is it even possible to do, or does it all
> depend on one another?

Take a look at MATE ( http://mate-desktop.org/ ), a maintained fork of
GNOME2.

B


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Re: My Friends Make Fun of My UI

[David Wright]

Quoting Doug (dmcgarr...@optonline.net):
> On 03/04/2015 04:03 PM, Stephen R Guglielmo wrote:
> >Hi list,
> >
> >I use LXDE on my Jessie laptop. I chose this desktop environment
> >because I don't want a lot of "stuff" on my system. Everything there is
> >essentially installed by me. I have Iceweasel, Claws-Mail, another GUI
> >program or two, but that's it. Everything else, I do in a terminal. I
> >even use Iceweasel to open the occasional PDF I come across
> >(eliminating the need for another PDF viewer). I suppose I'm a
> >minimalist in this sense.
> >
> >I would like to upgrade to Gnome so my desktop looks/feels a bit nicer
> >and gain a few extra features I'm missing in LXDE. However, I don't
> >want all the "stuff" that normally comes with Gnome.
> >
> >I have no use for:
> >-GUI login screen/session manager
> >-NetworkManager
> >-GUI package manager
> >-GUI text editor
> >-Chat/Contacts/Keyring manager
> >-Photo manager
> >I think you get the idea by now.
> >
> >I did a bit of reading and would prefer the Gnome "Classic" interface.
> >Is there a way to install this type of "minimal" gnome without breaking
> >it too much? Is it even possible to do, or does it all depend on one
> >another?
> >
> I think maybe you need to look into some other distros, I think there are 
> still
> a couple that rely mostly on command-line. What is Slackware doing lately?
> Or Scientific Linux? You could Google for command-line Linux or something 
> like that.
> I think BCD is also kind of minimal, but when I tried to run it dual-booted,
> it didn't seem to like to share filesystems--or something. I never got it to 
> work.

Perhaps you skipped the first paragraph?

Anyway, I'm hard pushed to think of GUIs I use beyond Iceweasel and
Chromium, xpdf, xzgv, audacious and pavucontrol (which I find
confusing). I use mutt, wicd, emacs, and things like that, on a bunch
of xterms under fvwm.

I suppose I wonder what I'm missing in these desktops that people talk
about. But I'm afraid that my laptop would struggle to run any of
them. I've found that jessie (upgraded, not a clean installation)
runs a whole lot slower that wheezy does. The symptom is that it
thrashes the disk mercilessly, and I know it's not the fastest disk
(in wheezy, you notice how everything runs almost instantly the second
time, ie now that it's cached in memory). For example, if you login
immediately on booting jessie, it takes ten seconds to just spit out
the Password: prompt and 30 seconds or more to get through .bashrc.

Still, I think that'll be the subject of a separate posting when I've
got round to doing a fresh install. Just tell me what I'm missing, and
what you are, Stephen.

Cheers,
David.


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Re: Strange entry in my routing table.

[Bob Proulx]

Juan R. de Silva wrote:
> Here is my routing table:
> 
> 0.0.0.0   192.168.25.68   0.0.0.0 UG0  00 eth0
> 192.168.24.0  0.0.0.0 255.255.252.0   U 1  00 eth0
> 
> The first entry IS my default gateway as I expected. 
> 
> The second line, however, is something I cannot neither recognize nor 
> explain. It obviously belongs to something on a different LAN segment, 
> which I do not have. I mean I do not have any subnets on my LAN.

If those are your only two entries then your IP address *must* be in
the 192.168.24.0/255.255.252.0 subnet.  Right?  That is the route for
your local subnet which is associated with your IP address.

> I tried to ping 192.168.24.0 with no response.

Good.  Because that is the network address.  In the old days every
host on the net would have responded to you.  If you are at home then
you might have no other hosts on the network.  If you were in a big
company or university then you might have thousands of replies coming
back to your system.  It would generally overwhelm both your system
and the switches handling your network.

> Trying 'ping -b 192.168.24.255' gives me only my own LAN IP address with 
> "Destination Host Unreachable".

That is not your broadcast address.  You list 255.255.252.0 as the
netmask for that lan segment.  That makes your broadcast address on
that network 192.168.27.255.  If you were to ping the broadcast
address then again every host on the network should respond.  Not
usually what you want.

> The wireless on my router is disabled from GUI interface. The router is 
> flashed with dd-wrt. Should I assume my router has been hacked and re-
> flash it?

No.  You should tell us what your IP address is so that we can confirm
that it is on the 192.168.24.0/255.255.252.0 network.

  $ ipcalc 192.168.24.0/255.255.252.0
  Address:   192.168.24.0 1100.10101000.000110 00.
  Netmask:   255.255.252.0 = 22   ..11 00.
  Wildcard:  0.0.3.255..00 11.
  =>
  Network:   192.168.24.0/22  1100.10101000.000110 00.
  HostMin:   192.168.24.1 1100.10101000.000110 00.0001
  HostMax:   192.168.27.254   1100.10101000.000110 11.1110
  Broadcast: 192.168.27.255   1100.10101000.000110 11.
  Hosts/Net: 1022  Class C, Private Internet

> Can somebody help me to understand this, please?

When you configure an IP address on your system it always includes a
netmask for the subnet.  That information is used to create a routing
table entry for the local subnet.  It allows your system to determine
whether an address is directly accessible or if the address needs to
connect using a gateway.  If a remote address can be routed to by your
subnet then it will speak directly to it.  If it isn't on a local
subnet then it will route through a gateway route.  If no gateway
route is configured then the address is unreachable.

Hope that helps.

Bob

P.S. I have a pet peeve about the routing table printing order on
newer Linux kernels.  In the old kernels and in legacy Unix systems
the route table was top down.  Adress matching was done top to bottom.
First are the local routes and the last one listed was the default
route.  Routing was selected by walking the table top to bottom.  If
none of the local entries matched then the default route was listed at
the bottom and the packet matched that and was sent to the router.

Back in some Linux version that I don't recall they flipped the order
printed to be the opposite way.  The order you show is the new
upsidedown order.  In your order and the newer Linux kernels you match
from bottom to top.  Start at the bottom with the last entry listed
and then walk through the listing from bottom to top.  If nothing else
hits then the last entry is the default entry on top and the packet is
sent to the default route.  Needing to look at it upsidedown I find
very inconvenient and a break from traditional practice for no good
reason.

My preference now is to use this to work around the issue.

  ip route | tac


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: Strange entry in my routing table.

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 04 March 2015 18:34:17 Juan R. de Silva wrote:
> > That looks 10% legit to me.
>
> 10% ? Is it a typo or a joke? :-)

Thats a genuine typu, s/b 100%. 80yo fingers don't always type what my 
brain tells them... :(

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 


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Re: Debian in small/medium business

[David Christensen]

On 03/04/2015 12:30 PM, Dan Ritter wrote:

On Wed, Mar 04, 2015 at 10:51:21AM -0800, Victor Charles wrote:

I'm starting my own spares business soon and will be using a Linux
compatible Point of Sale system on about 5-6 desktop computers to begin
with.
I am impressed with SUSE Linux Enterprise  Point of Sale (SLEPOS) but I'm
sure Debian 7 or (soon) Debian 8 can perform the same functions, if not
better.
Anyone have experience with Debian in business or have any recommendations?

The best distribution for you is the one that you have the most
support for.


+1


If someone is selling you a POS system, then they should be
supplying support.


+1


If you're building a POS system, you should evaluate the
relative communities and support organizations.


-1

I'd recommend:

1.  Use *only* the hardware and the GNU/Linux distribution your POS 
vendor recommends and supports.  This includes make, model, hardware 
version, firmware version, etc..


2.  Encrypt all drives.

3.  Photography everything for insurance purposes.

4.  Better yet, buy all your hardware from your POS vendor with the O/S 
and all the software pre-installed and pre-configured.


5.  Get a static IP Internet connection and set up a hardware firewall 
that your POS vendor knows and likes (buy it from them if you can).  Put 
your POS machines behind it, and nothing else.


a.  Configure the firewall to give your POS vendor's static IP 
address external SSH access to the firewall and internal access to the 
POS machines (all via SSH keys only; block password authentication).


b.  Configure the firewall to block all outgoing traffic, except 
what your POS vendor needs.  Yes, employees will cry if they can't surf 
from the POS machines; would you rather be cracked and deal with 
notifying all your customers of the data breach?


4.  Don't update/ upgrade the machines unless your POS vendor tells you 
to do so, and only with the *exact* patches they have verified.  Better 
yet, pay them to do it.


5.  Backup, image, and archive religiously.  Even if you pay your POS 
vendor to do this (good idea), implement a local solution anyway 
(coordinate with your POS vendor).  Encrypt everything and keep copies 
off-site forever.


HTH,

David


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Re: Strange entry in my routing table.

[Matthew Chong]

Did you mean typo? :P (Yeah I understand typos from you now.)

The table does not appear to have problems, you can always nmap it though,
it tells what it is, in terms of operating system and open ports.

(sudo apt-get install nmap)

nmap -sV [IPv4 Address]

On Thursday, March 5, 2015, Gene Heskett  wrote:

>
>
> On Wednesday 04 March 2015 18:34:17 Juan R. de Silva wrote:
> > > That looks 10% legit to me.
> >
> > 10% ? Is it a typo or a joke? :-)
>
> Thats a genuine typu, s/b 100%. 80yo fingers don't always type what my
> brain tells them... :(
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
>
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> 
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>
>

Re: Debian in small/medium business

[David Christensen]

On 03/04/2015 06:36 PM, David Christensen wrote:

4.  Don't update/ upgrade the machines unless your POS vendor tells you
to do so, and only with the *exact* patches they have verified.  Better
yet, pay them to do it.
5.  Backup, image, and archive religiously.  Even if you pay your POS
vendor to do this (good idea), implement a local solution anyway
(coordinate with your POS vendor).  Encrypt everything and keep copies
off-site forever.


Oops -- got the numbering wrong on the last two:

6.  Don't update/ upgrade the machines unless your POS vendor tells you 
to do so, and only with the *exact* patches they have verified.  Better 
yet, pay them to do it.


7.  Backup, image, and archive religiously.  Even if you pay your POS 
vendor to do this (good idea), implement a local solution anyway 
(coordinate with your POS vendor).  Encrypt everything and keep copies 
off-site forever.



David

p.s. what is your POS solution?


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Re: 32bit grub??

[Ric Moore]

On 03/04/2015 05:28 PM, Pascal Hambourg wrote:

Darac Marjal a écrit :


grub-pc is 32-bit. grub-efi-* is, however, available in amd64 and ia32
variants. I don't know if the version used depends on your firmware,


It does. grub-efi-ia32 won't work with the PC's 64-bit UEFI firmwares.
AFAIK, it works only with some old Intel Mac which have a 32-bit UEFI.



Thanks for the replies. I was just curious why grub wasn't available as 
64bit, not just the 32bit version. My motherboard is only a few years 
old, but it doesn't have the EFI bit thankfully. I guess I'll leave what 
is working alone, as I don't have a terabyte of storage, unless 
grub-efi-amd64 can just be dropped in to replace grub-pc. :) Ric




--
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html


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Re: My Friends Make Fun of My UI

[Ric Moore]

On 03/04/2015 04:03 PM, Stephen R Guglielmo wrote:

Hi list,

I use LXDE on my Jessie laptop. I chose this desktop environment
because I don't want a lot of "stuff" on my system. Everything there is
essentially installed by me. I have Iceweasel, Claws-Mail, another GUI
program or two, but that's it. Everything else, I do in a terminal. I
even use Iceweasel to open the occasional PDF I come across
(eliminating the need for another PDF viewer). I suppose I'm a
minimalist in this sense.

I would like to upgrade to Gnome so my desktop looks/feels a bit nicer
and gain a few extra features I'm missing in LXDE. However, I don't
want all the "stuff" that normally comes with Gnome.

I have no use for:
-GUI login screen/session manager
-NetworkManager
-GUI package manager
-GUI text editor
-Chat/Contacts/Keyring manager
-Photo manager
I think you get the idea by now.

I did a bit of reading and would prefer the Gnome "Classic" interface.
Is there a way to install this type of "minimal" gnome without breaking
it too much? Is it even possible to do, or does it all depend on one
another?


Did you consider XFCE4? Ric


--
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html


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Re: Strange entry in my routing table.

[David Wright]

Quoting Gene Heskett (ghesk...@wdtv.com):
> 
> 
> On Wednesday 04 March 2015 18:34:17 Juan R. de Silva wrote:
> > > That looks 10% legit to me.
> >
> > 10% ? Is it a typo or a joke? :-)
> 
> Thats a genuine typu, s/b 100%. 80yo fingers don't always type what my 
> brain tells them... :(

However, your response was not particularly helpful because in your
case the numbers you substituted with xx are the same.

I know I had to look carefully to see where the OP's confusion lay.
Like most people with a home router, I don't often see a netmask that
isn't 255.255.255.0.

Thanks to Bob for a very clear exposition.

Cheers,
David.


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Re: My Friends Make Fun of My UI

[Cindy-Sue Causey]

On 3/4/15, Dan Ritter  wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 04, 2015 at 04:03:30PM -0500, Stephen R Guglielmo wrote:
>>
>> I did a bit of reading and would prefer the Gnome "Classic" interface.
>> Is there a way to install this type of "minimal" gnome without breaking
>> it too much? Is it even possible to do, or does it all depend on one
>> another?
>
> I bet you'd be pretty happy with XFCE.


Xfce is another something I LOVE these days. Comfortable look to it.
Was easy enough to download via dialup. Everything has worked as
expected on unstable Sid. Recently printscreened a bunch of open
programs then shared with friends to show how unscary and actually
very familiar Linux/Debian can be.

I debated between Xfce and LXDE before choosing Xfce. SEEMS LIKE Xfce
was smaller for me to download for *some reason*. Could have been that
comparing screenshots of both helped with the decision, too, I don't
know. Well, that and I had already had a pleasant experience with Xfce
k/t the Snowlinux 4 distribution.

If you go the Xfce route, there's also Xfce Goodies that plugs in a
few extra things:

https://packages.debian.org/jessie/xfce4-goodies

NOTE: That's purely for example since people are more and more moving
to Jessie from what I'm seeing. Just exchange your distribution (e.g.
wheezy or sid) with "jessie" in that link and you'll be taken to what
you need..

It *was* "xfce4-goodies" as the package name for me. Only noting that
because there's a brand new release, Xfce 4.12, out. I'm a-suming it
should still be xfce4-goodies based on that. At this point that was
just noise because I'm still seeing xfce4 4.10.1 and xfce4-goodies
4.10 there at Debian for both Jessie and Sid.

Good luck, whatever route you ultimately go!

Cindy :)

-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* Are we there yet? *


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Re: Strange entry in my routing table.

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 04 March 2015 21:39:16 David Wright wrote:
> Quoting Gene Heskett (ghesk...@wdtv.com):
> > On Wednesday 04 March 2015 18:34:17 Juan R. de Silva wrote:
> > > > That looks 10% legit to me.
> > >
> > > 10% ? Is it a typo or a joke? :-)
> >
> > Thats a genuine typu, s/b 100%. 80yo fingers don't always type what
> > my brain tells them... :(
>
> However, your response was not particularly helpful because in your
> case the numbers you substituted with xx are the same.
>
> I know I had to look carefully to see where the OP's confusion lay.
> Like most people with a home router, I don't often see a netmask that
> isn't 255.255.255.0.
>
> Thanks to Bob for a very clear exposition.

Yes David.  When I get this install tuned up a bit better, I should troll 
thru the kernel's networking and see if I could borrow some of that math 
for netmask and such.

Bob is likely 100% correct, but I'd like to learn how its done.

> Cheers,
> David.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 


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Removing sound from mvi files

[Emil Payne]

Is there a simple way to remove the audio track from MVI files?
MVI is the format my camera produces and I want to upload to YouTube 
without the background sound.

Or can I over write the audio track with a mp3 file?

Thanks


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have we any twittering-mode users on the list?

[Jude DaShiell]

I tried using the package and almost got everything working with the 
exception of one mystery for me.  I get the package authorized with 
twitter, then the encrypting personal information dialog comes up where 
I'm asked to enter a master password since I set that variable in my 
.emacs file.  Unfortunately the documentation does not make clear what 
needs to be entered to answer the questions so encryption fails everytime.  
Is there something I should have done with g2 before downloading this 
package I neglected to do?



jude  Twitter: @JudeDaShiell


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Jessie sufficiently stable for general use?

[Ken Heard]

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In the next month or so I will have to do a clean OS installation in
two desktops. Jessie is now frozen (Debian's contribution to retarding
global warming?); and there are apparently fewer RC bugs at this point
after the freeze than there were at the same point in time after the
freezing of previous releases.

I see that RC1 of Jessie is now available.  I would consequently
appreciate opinions as to whether Jessie is now or will be by mid
April sufficiently stable for such installations, or should I install
Wheezy instead and upgrade to Jessie when it is officially declared
stable?

I would much prefer the one step approach -- install Jessie within two
months and live with non RC bugs for a while -- to the two step
approach -- Wheezy now and upgrade to Jessie six months later more or
less.  Perhaps when I get around to those installations there may be a
further RC release of Jessie?

Regards, Ken
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Re: Jessie sufficiently stable for general use?

[Bob Bernstein]

On Thu, Mar 05, 2015 at 12:33:05PM +0700, Ken Heard wrote:

> I would much prefer the one step approach -- install Jessie within 
> two months and live with non RC bugs for a while -- to the two 
> step approach -- Wheezy now and upgrade to Jessie six months later 
> more or less.

What's inherently better about the one step? I can't recall the last 
time Debian threw me a major curve ball doing a version upgrade. 

OTOH, it's a great question and I'd like to hear about the new 
toddler in the family too!

-- 
Bob Bernstein

 


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hp-setup fails with ImportError

[tommi . lantta]

I get the following error trying to install a printer with hp-setup:

Traceback (most recent call last):
 File "/usr/bin/hp-setup", line 45, in 
   from base import device, utils, tui, models, module
 File "/usr/share/hplip/base/device.py", line 39, in 
   import status
 File "/usr/share/hplip/base/status.py", line 59, in 
   import hpmudext
ImportError: /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/hpmudext.so: undefined symbol: 
hpmud_make_par_uri

Running hp-check --fix reports one error:

error: NOT FOUND OR FAILED TO LOAD! Please reinstall HPLIP and check for the 
proper installation of hpmudext.
error: hpmudext  IO-Extension  REQUIRED-   
3.12.6 MISSING'Not Found or Failed to load, Please reinstall HPLIP'

and then tries to install package hpmudext, which doesn't exist.

This is probably due to trying to install a newer version directly from HP. I 
found some related files that shouldn't be there with cruft, but removing those 
didn't help.

Purging and reinstalling hplip and libhpmud0 didn't help either. 


What to try next?



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Re: Jessie sufficiently stable for general use?

[Patrick Bartek]

On Thu, 05 Mar 2015, Ken Heard wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> In the next month or so I will have to do a clean OS installation in
> two desktops. Jessie is now frozen (Debian's contribution to retarding
> global warming?); and there are apparently fewer RC bugs at this point
> after the freeze than there were at the same point in time after the
> freezing of previous releases.
> 
> I see that RC1 of Jessie is now available.  I would consequently
> appreciate opinions as to whether Jessie is now or will be by mid
> April sufficiently stable for such installations, or should I install
> Wheezy instead and upgrade to Jessie when it is officially declared
> stable?
> 
> I would much prefer the one step approach -- install Jessie within two
> months and live with non RC bugs for a while -- to the two step
> approach -- Wheezy now and upgrade to Jessie six months later more or
> less.  Perhaps when I get around to those installations there may be a
> further RC release of Jessie?

If its any assurance, the Wheezy install on this system began its life
as an RC1 dual boot with the Primary OS at the time -- Fedora 12.  I
never had any issues with the RC1 or the later releases including
Stable. Debian is VERY conservative with their release designations.

B


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Re: server monitor

[Igor Cicimov]

Munin
On 05/03/2015 1:18 AM, "Pol Hallen"  wrote:

> Hi all :-)
>
> I'm looking for a tool that generates a report (daily, weekly, etc.) with
> the statistics of resources (loadavg, cpu/mem/disk resources, etc.) of
> server (no IDS).
>
> I discovered sars (but I yet didn't test it), munin is nice but I need
> something with email reports (no web interface).
>
> Any idea or advices?
>
> monit is a good tool but does not keep older time resources.
>
> thanks for help!
>
> Pol
>
>
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>

Re: Jessie sufficiently stable for general use?

[Bob Proulx]

Ken Heard wrote:
> I see that RC1 of Jessie is now available.  I would consequently
> appreciate opinions as to whether Jessie is now or will be by mid
> April sufficiently stable for such installations, or should I install
> Wheezy instead and upgrade to Jessie when it is officially declared
> stable?
>
> I would much prefer the one step approach -- install Jessie within two
> months and live with non RC bugs for a while -- to the two step
> approach -- Wheezy now and upgrade to Jessie six months later more or
> less.  Perhaps when I get around to those installations there may be a
> further RC release of Jessie?

I am not really sure precisely what you are asking.  But I think from
the questions I will answer this way.

If you have compatible hardware I would install Wheezy today and then
immediately upgrade to Jessie.

The installer is always one of the last things to finish before
release.  It generally needs to be one of the last things because it
is reacting to changes in the release.  Therefore the typical thing is
to use the previous installer which is stable and well tested for the
installation and then upgrade.  Usually when we do this we don't
install a desktop.  We install a bare bones system and then upgrade
and then install the heavy bits of a desktop in the new system.

But that plan only works if the new system is old enough to be
supported by the previous installer's kernel.  If it is then great.
If it isn't then the older kernel not supporting newer hardware will
push you into some trouble.  In that case go ahead and try the new
installer.

Remember that there isn't anything very magic about the installer.  It
is just there to bootstrap your system.  All you need to do is to get
to the point that you can log into the new hardware.  And then the
tricky part may be getting networking.  Because often newer network
cards need the newest kernel drivers.  Once you can log in with
network access then you can install the rest of the system.

Having said that you might just want to go ahead and test the new
Jessie installer.  Can't hurt.  It will either work (install
successfully) or it won't.  Either way you will have learned something
and can plan for it.  If it fails then please make an installation
report with the details of the problems.

Just my 2 cents...  There are many ways to do it.

Bob


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Re: have we any twittering-mode users on the list?

[Teemu Likonen]

Jude DaShiell [2015-03-04 23:30:44-05] wrote:

> I tried using the package and almost got everything working with the
> exception of one mystery for me.

I use twittering-mode installed from MELPA package archive.

> I get the package authorized with twitter, then the encrypting
> personal information dialog comes up where I'm asked to enter a master
> password since I set that variable in my .emacs file. Unfortunately
> the documentation does not make clear what needs to be entered to
> answer the questions so encryption fails everytime.

Do you mean ~/.twittering-mode.gpg file? It should be encrypted with
your GPG public key or maybe with just plain passphrase (symmetric). I
think I encrypted it manually using gpg tool in a terminal.


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