Re: Query about .xsession-errors file
On 15/09/2014, Chen Wei wrote: > On Tue, Sep 09, 2014 at 03:29:04PM +0800, Bret Busby wrote: >> .xsession-errors, which is currently sitting at about 740MB, and has >> been growing in the last hour. >> >> entries from before the current boot session) entries, so as to reduce >> the file size to content that is necessary to retain for debugging? >> > > If debugging is not required, redirect xsession error to /dev/null is > another option. > > in /etc/X11/Xsession, find the line: > > exec >>"$ERRFILE" 2>&1 > > change it to: > > exec >>/dev/null 2>&1 > > -- > Chen Wei > > Hello. At this time, after doing what I had done, that I had previously stated, the file is still at zero bytes, so I think that it is probably better, to leave the error handling as it is, and, monitor it daily, to detect any change, and then, act on any changes to the file. However, thank you for the suggestion, which I shall retain for future consideration. -- Bret Busby Armadale West Australia .. "So once you do know what the question actually is, you'll know what the answer means." - Deep Thought, Chapter 28 of Book 1 of "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: A Trilogy In Four Parts", written by Douglas Adams, published by Pan Books, 1992 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CACX6j8OHzm+2cgRzd0s4VocQCtOWjmeTbLJ=+nzqxcw0eqk...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Issues upgrading Wheezy --> Jessie (was ... Re: brasero requires gvfs)
On Sunday 14 September 2014 19:42:40 Steve Litt wrote: > Every time you tell one of us to keep silent, three more of us speak > up. I don't know whether we're a minority, but if you and your cohorts > keep shushing us, we just might be the majority pretty soon. I wasn't telling anyone to keep silent!! You are so fixated in your beliefs that you don't bother with facts any longer! I have asked you personally to keep silent because you do repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat But I haven't been successful have I? As you acknowledge, you are part of a minority. Do stop bullying the rest of us. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201409150827.08209.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: View on UNIX purism in Linux Community
Bartosz Olender writes: > Therefore I want to poke my three cents into this discussion reminding > that "GNU is *Not* Unix" May I recall that most of the systemd-haters knows the recursive expansion of GNU? > and because of that we should have the freedom > to create better solutions, rather than being a UNIX purist and keeping > it old-school. If the solution is better is welcome. Nobody ever blamed bash, nobody ever blamed the GNU tar for having compression builtin. I would add that in the old times when as a student I was working on 4.3 BSD workstations, we gladly used the GNU commands as replacement for the standard ones because they were better. It indeed addresses the problem of boot dependencies solution, maybe it could have addressed it in a bit smarter way. Other choices are/were design flaws, some have been overcomed by the effort of Debian mantainers and luckyly are the most annoying, some other not and all are mostly bound to lack of experience (and self-conteit). What systemd should have (other than becoming mature) is have a documentation that can match that of gcc or Emacs. Documentation that should come from the very same developing team. > If you don't want to accept systemd as advancement for GNU/Linux > platform (especially desktop) and rather stay with the pure UNIX > approach, maybe it's time to switch to an actual UNIX and not use > "UNIX-like" GNU/Linux. Wow, never seen so much wisdom! :> May I recall that in the early '90 BSD was still blocked by a lawsuit and therefore GNU/Linux was the only free choice? And *BSD took a while to restart. When in my university we heard about Linus work we all said "wow, a Unix you can bring home!". GNU/Linux was successful because it was free AND it was a flavour of Unix. > From what I predict the future for Debian doesn't look that great, I > think that either most current users unhappy with systemd switch will > migrate to Gentoo or BSDs, Migration to Gentoo may become necessary because of the weight of the software that requires optimized compilations. And the poor support for some "esoteric" architectures like, who knows, some strange shaped, G4 ppc based personal machines. BSD could be a necessary for some people if Linux becomes a "Not at all Unix" system :) :) :). -- /\ ___Ubuntu: ancient /___/\_|_|\_|__|___Gian Uberto Lauri_ African word //--\| | \| | Integralista GNUslamicomeaning "I can \/ coltivatore diretto di software not install già sistemista a tempo (altrui) perso...Debian" Warning: gnome-config-daemon considered more dangerous than GOTO -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/21526.38362.374652.126...@mail.eng.it
Re: server backup
On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 11:56:35AM -0600, Glenn English wrote: > What do you server admins use for backup? Personally (not professionally), I only back up user data, and use a puppet recipe to configure my servers, so that if I need to restore them I can do so by running the puppet script on a pristine Debian install. For user data I mostly use rdiff-backup. I've been meaning to look at obnam for a while. -- Jonathan Dowland -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140915074437.gd5...@bryant.redmars.org
Re: server backup
On 15.09.2014 09:44, Jonathan Dowland wrote: > On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 11:56:35AM -0600, Glenn English wrote: >> What do you server admins use for backup? I use duply for data backups. Pros: - push backups via ssh - encrypted with gpg key1 - signed with gpg key2 - built in file checksumming my scenario: running several servers in a data center and a central backup storage. My backups should still be secure if one of those gets hacked. because of the gpg encryption, I can crypt backups with the public part of key1, but I can save the private part for encryption offline on a paper/usb stick in a safe (this works for my private and my professional stuff at work). > Personally (not professionally), I only back up user data, and > use a puppet recipe to configure my servers, so that if I need > to restore them I can do so by running the puppet script on a > pristine Debian install. same here, using puppet to configure the hole maschine. > For user data I mostly use rdiff-backup. I've been meaning to > look at obnam for a while. > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54169af5.4040...@online-mail.biz
Re: brasero requires gvfs
Ahoj,
Dňa Sat, 13 Sep 2014 21:46:43 +0200 lee napísal:
> Slavko writes:
>
> > BTW, if someone is interested in, while this investigation i
> > generated graphs of dependencies on some systemd packages on my
> > system, they will be accessible for some time here:
> >
> > http://anfo.slavino.sk/libpam-systemd.png
> > http://anfo.slavino.sk/libsystemd-daemon0.png
> > http://anfo.slavino.sk/libsystemd-journal0.png
> > http://anfo.slavino.sk/libsystemd-login0.png
>
> How did you create these?
Some recursive call for "aptitude search ?depends(package)" in the
python script, with result putting into python's dict and then
generate graphviz from this dict. I attach the script, but the
starting packages (systemd) and the result's path are hardcoded in it.
> Would you mind if I downloaded the images and put them on my web
> server, potentially with some explanation? I've been sending some
> posts to debian-devel, and these graphs might come in handy sooner or
> later.
Consider them as public domain, but don't forget, that they displays
dependencies of packages installed in my system only, not whole
dependency tree.
> Especially the last one is rather interesting since it clearly shows
> that basically the whole system depends on systemd.
>
> How would such graphs look for sysvinit?
Good question. When i will have some time, i will inspect them or you
can try to generate own.
--
Slavko
http://slavino.sk
#!/usr/bin/env python
# -*- coding: utf-8 -*-
#
# Copyright 2014 Slavko
#
# This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
# it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
# the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or
# (at your option) any later version.
#
import subprocess
import re
import pygraphviz as pgv
maincmd = [ 'aptitude', 'search', '-w 60', '-F %p %v %V' ]
reparts = re.compile('^ *(\S*) +(\S*) +(\S*)')
def getpkglist(pattern):
"""get main packages list
%patern% the aptidude's search apttern
%return% list of [ name, version, canditate]
"""
proces = subprocess.Popen(maincmd + [pattern],
stdout=subprocess.PIPE,
stderr=subprocess.PIPE)
stdout, stderr = proces.communicate()
# TODO raise exception on stderr
retlist = []
for line in stdout.splitlines():
name, version, candidate = reparts.search(line).groups()
retlist.append( [name, version, candidate] )
return retlist
def getpkgdeps(pkgname):
""" recursively get dependencies
%pkname% the package name
"return" nothing
"""
pattern = "~i?depends(^%s$) ~ramd64 ?not(-dev$)" % pkgname
deplist = getpkglist(pattern)
for item in deplist:
name = item[0]
try:
pkgdict[pkgname].add(name)
except KeyError:
pkgdict[pkgname] = set([name])
if not pkgdict.has_key(name):
getpkgdeps(name)
baselist = []
for item in getpkglist("~isystemd ?not(systemd-shim) ?not(dh-systemd) ?not(libsystemd-id128) ~ramd64"):
name = item[0]
baselist += [name]
for name in baselist:
pkgdict = dict()
print name
print "*" * 40
try:
getpkgdeps(name)
# suppress backtrace for not patient
except KeyboardInterrupt:
print "KeyboardInterrupt"
exit(1)
# create graphviz digraph from dict
G=pgv.AGraph(directed=True)
G.node_attr['style'] = "filled"
G.node_attr['color']= 'darkgoldenrod1'
G.node_attr['fillcolor'] = "moccasin"
for key in pkgdict.keys():
for depend in pkgdict[key]:
# red nodes for root packages
if key in baselist:
G.add_node(key, shape="box", peripheries=2, style="filled", color='firebrick', fillcolor="lightpink")
if depend in baselist:
G.add_node(depend, shape="box", peripheries=2, style="filled", color='firebrick', fillcolor="lightpink")
# green nodes for leafs
if not pkgdict.has_key(depend):
G.add_node(depend, style="filled", color='green4', fillcolor="palegreen")
G.add_edge(key, depend, dir="back")
# all root packages in the same level
G.add_subgraph(baselist,rank='same')
G.layout("dot")
G.write("/tmp/%s.dot" % name)
G.draw("/tmp/%s.png" % name)
signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
Re: systemd vs debian soc (was ... Re: brasero requires gvfs)
Ahoj, Dňa Sat, 13 Sep 2014 13:46:51 -0300 Andre N Batista napísal: > The way I see it, there is a large amount of doubt on who's > insterested in systemd and there is no doubt that many users are > being forced into using it and, according to your recent post on the > subject, those users have currently no way of purging systemd from > their systems without losing the ability of running an imense > chainload of userland software. I see there no doubt – administrators of large systems/networks. If you have no one, then you need to buy/build it ;-) Or you can be submissive and accept, what others (here RedHat) prepare for you. > So are we trying to support the need of our users for operation in > many different kinds of computing environments or are we pushing some > distro that actualy did that into becoming a GiB monolith? regards -- Slavko http://slavino.sk signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Issues upgrading Wheezy --> Jessie (was ... Re: brasero requires gvfs)
On 09/15/2014 03:27 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote: On Sunday 14 September 2014 19:42:40 Steve Litt wrote: Every time you tell one of us to keep silent, three more of us speak up. I don't know whether we're a minority, but if you and your cohorts keep shushing us, we just might be the majority pretty soon. I wasn't telling anyone to keep silent!! You are so fixated in your beliefs that you don't bother with facts any longer! I have asked you personally to keep silent because you do repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat But I haven't been successful have I? As you acknowledge, you are part of a minority. Do stop bullying the rest of us. Steve has been very active in helping folks out, so what's your beef? Inquiring minds want to know. Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: "There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5416a1f0.6060...@gmail.com
Re: Mails & mails
On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 01:38:53AM -0400, Björn Djisktra wrote:
>Is this gonna work? Please, help.
debian-user is not an arbitrary language parser. Try writing your code
to a file and then applying the compiler/interpreter appropriate to the
language you're writing in to that file. If there are no error messages
resulting from that, then you can assume that yes, it did work.
>
>algorithm 10.6
>type array [1..1000] of integer: arr
>var
>arr : a, b, c, d
>integer : I, J, K, M, n, aux, low, upp, central, cont, big, f_n, num
>boolean : flag
>
>begin
>do
>read (n)
>while (n <= 0) OR (n > 1000)
>
>for I <- (1 to n) do:
>repeat
>read (a [I])
>until (a [I] > 0) AND (a [I] < 100) end_for
>
>flag <- 'F'
>I <- 1
>while (flag == 'F') AND (I < n) do: flag <- 'T'
>for I <- (1 to (n - I)) do:
>if (a [I] > a [I + 1] then:
>aux <- a [I]
>a [I] <- a [I + 1]
>a [I + 1] <- aux
>flag <- 'F'
>end_if
>end_for
>I <- I + 1
>end_while
>
>for I <- (1 to n) do:
>write (a [I])
>end_for
>
>low <- 1
>upp <- n
>central <- ((upp - low) DIV 2) + low
>write (a [central])
>M <- 1
>J <- 1
>K <- 1
>for I <- (1 to n) do:
>if (a [I] < 30) then:
>b [J] <- a [I]
>J <- J + 1
>else:
>if (a [I] > 70) then:
>c [K] <- a [I]
>K <- K + 1
>else:
>d [M] <- a [I]
>M <- M + 1
>end_if
>end_if
>end_for
>
>write ('Numbers smaller than 30: ')
>for I <- (1 to J) do:
>write (b [I])
>end_for
>
>write ('Numbers larger than 70: ')
>for I <- (1 to K) do:
>write (c [I])
>end_for
>
>write ('Numbers between 30 and 70: ')
>for I <- (1 to M) do:
>write (d [I])
>end_for
>
>I <- 1
>f_n <- a [I]
>cont <- 0
>big <- 1
>for I <- (1 to n) do:
>for J <- (1 to n) do:
>if (a [J] == f_n) then:
>cont <- cont + 1
>end_if
>if (cont > big) then:
>big <- cont
>num <- a [I]
>end_if
>end_for
>f_n <- a [I + 1]
>cont <- 0
>end_for
>
>write ('The number ', num, ' appears ', big, ' times.'
>
>end
>
>On Sep 13, 2014 5:25 AM, "Björn Djisktra" <[1]amailuser...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
> Guyz, Stop re-directed mails to my address.
>
> References
>
>Visible links
>1. mailto:amailuser...@gmail.com
signature.asc
Description: Digital signature
disabled login prompt problem
Dear Debian folks, I am running Debian Testing on an AMD64 box. I was trying to update it with new packages and got dependency problems. I got as far as choosing this PAM option from a list but could not find the list at the terminal and eventually had to shutdown and reboot. When I did this I got a login prompt that doesn't ask for a password. I am a bit stuck here. I have a weekly build of Debian Testing DVD #1 I burned at the weekend. I am trying to get the OS reading from the DVD again. Suggestions welcome here. Regards Michael Fothergill
Re: Re: "no soundcards found" after Debian upgrade
Thanks Raffaele,
You are right, once I'm loading manually the snd-usb-audio, all is fine.
So, my work-around right now is running after each restart:
$ sudo modprobe snd-hda-intel snd-usb-audio
I'm very pleased to have back sound at my computer, thanks to this
mailing list!
As for .asound file, here is its content:
pcm.pulse {
type pulse
}
ctl.pulse {
type pulse
}
pcm.!default {
type pulse
}
ctl.!default {
type pulse
}
--
With kind regards,
Menashè
Re: "no soundcards found" after Debian upgrade
On 15/09/14 at 12:43pm, Menashè Eliezer wrote: > Thanks Raffaele, > You are right, once I'm loading manually the snd-usb-audio, all is fine. > So, my work-around right now is running after each restart: > $ sudo modprobe snd-hda-intel snd-usb-audio You don't have to do it manually, just add those two lines in /etc/modules snd-hda-intel snd-usb-audio But you'd better of using a file in /etc/modules-load.d/ eg. create my_alsa.conf in /etc/modules-load.d/ then add the lines above in it. -- « Nunc est bibendum, nunc pede libero pulsanda tellus » -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140915112852.ga5...@gmail.com
Re: Re: "no soundcards found" after Debian upgrade
Both of them are already in /etc/modules and /etc/modules-load.d/modules.conf No effect... -- With kind regards, Menashè -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5416d849.2080...@ogs.trieste.it
Re: disabled login prompt problem
On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 6:54 PM, Michael Fothergill wrote: > Dear Debian folks, > > I am running Debian Testing on an AMD64 box. > > I was trying to update it with new packages and got dependency problems. > > I got as far as choosing this PAM option from a list but could not find the > list at the terminal and eventually had to shutdown and reboot. Woops. > When I did this I got a login prompt that doesn't ask for a password. In other words, we can guess there's no program to call to query and text a password. > I am a bit stuck here. Have you tried having the boot loader pass the single-user parameter? In a grub boot menu, you would hit e for edit and add "single" to the "linux" line. I'm not sure whether you'll be able to run dpkg at that point, but, if so, you might be able to have a re-go at the PAM module. I'm not sure that will be enough, either. You may need to bring up the network interface first, of course, or point dpkg to your install DVD. > I have a weekly build of Debian Testing DVD #1 I burned at the weekend. > > I am trying to get the OS reading from the DVD again. Booting the DVD, dropping to rescue mode, and mounting the hard disk would allow you a look at the logs to see what it was trying to do and how far it got when you couldn't move ahead. > Suggestions welcome here. May be some hints here: https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch02.en.html#_recovery_from_a_broken_system https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch03.en.html#_stage_2_the_boot_loader https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch04.en.html https://wiki.debian.org/PAM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_GRUB -- Joel Rees Be careful where you see conspiracy. Look first in your own heart, and ask yourself if you are not your own worst enemy. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAAr43iPmAq8ipqUURDE9dA=92jb0q56oka8qrkpqdzgoui0...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Mails & mails
On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 5:51 PM, Darac Marjal wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 01:38:53AM -0400, Björn Djisktra wrote:
>>Is this gonna work? Please, help.
>
> debian-user is not an arbitrary language parser. Try writing your code
> to a file and then applying the compiler/interpreter appropriate to the
> language you're writing in to that file. If there are no error messages
> resulting from that, then you can assume that yes, it did work.
His source looks kind of like a mix of MuPAD and, I don't know,
Pascal, and APL, ...
Any guess at the language? Maybe somebody's one-off language for an
undergraduate compiler class?
>>algorithm 10.6
>>type array [1..1000] of integer: arr
>>var
>>arr : a, b, c, d
>>integer : I, J, K, M, n, aux, low, upp, central, cont, big, f_n, num
>>boolean : flag
>>
>>begin
>>do
>>read (n)
>>while (n <= 0) OR (n > 1000)
>>
>>for I <- (1 to n) do:
>>repeat
>>read (a [I])
>>until (a [I] > 0) AND (a [I] < 100) end_for
>>
>>flag <- 'F'
>>I <- 1
>>while (flag == 'F') AND (I < n) do: flag <- 'T'
>>for I <- (1 to (n - I)) do:
>>if (a [I] > a [I + 1] then:
>>aux <- a [I]
>>a [I] <- a [I + 1]
>>a [I + 1] <- aux
>>flag <- 'F'
>>end_if
>>end_for
>>I <- I + 1
>>end_while
>>
>>for I <- (1 to n) do:
>>write (a [I])
>>end_for
>>
>>low <- 1
>>upp <- n
>>central <- ((upp - low) DIV 2) + low
>>write (a [central])
>>M <- 1
>>J <- 1
>>K <- 1
>>for I <- (1 to n) do:
>>if (a [I] < 30) then:
>>b [J] <- a [I]
>>J <- J + 1
>>else:
>>if (a [I] > 70) then:
>>c [K] <- a [I]
>>K <- K + 1
>>else:
>>d [M] <- a [I]
>>M <- M + 1
>>end_if
>>end_if
>>end_for
>>
>>write ('Numbers smaller than 30: ')
>>for I <- (1 to J) do:
>>write (b [I])
>>end_for
>>
>>write ('Numbers larger than 70: ')
>>for I <- (1 to K) do:
>>write (c [I])
>>end_for
>>
>>write ('Numbers between 30 and 70: ')
>>for I <- (1 to M) do:
>>write (d [I])
>>end_for
>>
>>I <- 1
>>f_n <- a [I]
>>cont <- 0
>>big <- 1
>>for I <- (1 to n) do:
>>for J <- (1 to n) do:
>>if (a [J] == f_n) then:
>>cont <- cont + 1
>>end_if
>>if (cont > big) then:
>>big <- cont
>>num <- a [I]
>>end_if
>>end_for
>>f_n <- a [I + 1]
>>cont <- 0
>>end_for
>>
>>write ('The number ', num, ' appears ', big, ' times.'
>>
>>end
>>
>>On Sep 13, 2014 5:25 AM, "Björn Djisktra" <[1]amailuser...@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>> Guyz, Stop re-directed mails to my address.
>>
>> References
>>
>>Visible links
>>1. mailto:amailuser...@gmail.com
--
Joel Rees
Be careful where you see conspiracy.
Look first in your own heart,
and ask yourself if you are not your own worst enemy.
--
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with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive:
https://lists.debian.org/CAAr43iOdUb-ZyyAn5R7hxM8nywD6J4HV7+nYrWbqK_c=pxy...@mail.gmail.com
Re: preseeding: disable systemd
On 15/09/14 01:46, Marty wrote: (not OP but) I require the exclusion all packages by their dev teams from my computer. Is that clear enough? Linus doesn't trust them. Why should I? Just to be sure you're aware of what you're asking for: that includes udev, which: (a) in Debian is a hard dependency of initramfs-tools (a hard dependency of Debian's kernel packages), fuse, and xserver-xorg-core. (b) has been housed since version 184 (circa May 2012) in the systemd repository (although the program(s) comprising the udev package in Debian do not depend on systemd, systemd-logind, systemd-journald, or the published interfaces thereof) (c) is in large part maintained by Kay Sievers. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5416e1a5.1070...@zen.co.uk
Re: Issues upgrading Wheezy --> Jessie (was ... Re: brasero requires gvfs)
On 9/15/2014 3:27 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote: > On Sunday 14 September 2014 19:42:40 Steve Litt wrote: >> Every time you tell one of us to keep silent, three more of us speak >> up. I don't know whether we're a minority, but if you and your cohorts >> keep shushing us, we just might be the majority pretty soon. > > I wasn't telling anyone to keep silent!! You are so fixated in your beliefs > that you don't bother with facts any longer! > > I have asked you personally to keep silent because you do repeat and repeat > and repeat and repeat But I haven't been successful have I? > > As you acknowledge, you are part of a minority. Do stop bullying the rest of > us. > > Lisi > > Or, maybe there are a lot of people (like me) who have watched this discussion with interest, but remained silent. I, too, don't like the way Debian is taking things with systemd. From a device driver developer's POV, I don't see any advantages, and see a lot of disadvantages. Plus, like others, I don't like the attitude of the systemd developers. So far I've seen some good reasons why Debian should not go that way. But I've seen few technical reasons why this is a good idea. Most of the comments by supporters are along the lines of "this is a good thing" (with no reasons), "It's going to happen so get used to it", or just plain "shut up already!". I've also read all of the past discussions referenced in this and other discussions. All they have done is make me even more leery of systemd. I would love to hear some good technical reasons why this is a good idea. Jerry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5416e94a.8070...@attglobal.net
Re: Re: "no soundcards found" after Debian upgrade
2014-09-15 14:15 GMT+02:00 Menashè Eliezer : > Both of them are already in /etc/modules and /etc/modules-load.d/modules. > conf > > No effect... well, I am not a kernel doctor but something is clearly wrong with it
Re: View on UNIX purism in Linux Community
On 09/15/2014 03:31 AM, sa...@eng.it wrote: Bartosz Olender writes: > Therefore I want to poke my three cents into this discussion reminding > that "GNU is *Not* Unix" May I recall that most of the systemd-haters knows the recursive expansion of GNU? Most of us are no interested in what Stallman or whoever created back in 1995. We don't think of Linux as GNU. Linux is much more Unix than anything else. And it certainly is _not_ what GNU was back then. I don't like to get involved in this dumb tirade, but the GNU business grates on me! --doug -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/541700b7.6080...@optonline.net
Re: View on UNIX purism in Linux Community
On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 11:07:35 -0400 Doug wrote: > Most of us are no interested in what Stallman or whoever created back > in 1995. We don't think of Linux as GNU. Ahhh, so you are the declared and _democratically elected_ spokesman of, let's say 80% of the Linux community (shit, I should read more news and articles: nobody told me about that!) > Linux is much more Unix than > anything else. This is an interesting declaration, although it calls for a tiny bit more than your words for us to agree. > And it certainly is _not_ what GNU was back then. Once again, this is your words, please develop that in a way we, poor dumb asses of users (but ô highly represented ;-p), can understand. > I don't like to get involved in this dumb tirade, but the GNU business > grates on me! Ohhh, as a spokesman you aren't very friendly to the people you're representing - so once again, pleeease develop your rant so we, poor dumb users, can understand why GNU, which has been our guardian and in a manner our way of life for the last 30 years, is sooo meeean (Richard, if you read me, it's whenever you want:) It is quite common that new comers wants to "break the whole dusty world" because they KNOW (much better than poor dumbs such as Richard and us) what is better for EVERYBODY. We already seen that in finance… with the 2008 known "results". Dogs bark, Stallman moves on… -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140915173351.730d70fa@msi.defcon1
Re: preseeding: disable systemd
On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 01:55:01PM +0100, Martin Read wrote: > On 15/09/14 01:46, Marty wrote: > >(not OP but) I require the exclusion all packages by their dev teams > >from my computer. Is that clear enough? Linus doesn't trust them. Why > >should I? > > Just to be sure you're aware of what you're asking for: that > includes udev, which: > > (a) in Debian is a hard dependency of initramfs-tools (a hard > dependency of Debian's kernel packages), fuse, and > xserver-xorg-core. Of those only xserver-xorg-core uses versioned dependency on udev (and the real obstacle would be libudev0, as wheezy's xorg can function without udev just fine), initramfs-tools can be persuaded to use busybox's mdev (with some equivs trickery), fuse's actual dependency is 'udev | makedev'. Still, I agree that removing udev from Debian is non-trivial at best. > (b) has been housed since version 184 (circa May 2012) in the > systemd repository (although the program(s) comprising the udev > package in Debian do not depend on systemd, systemd-logind, > systemd-journald, or the published interfaces thereof) Which did lead to all kinds of funny results in the past - [1]. > (c) is in large part maintained by Kay Sievers. Oh, you mean that guy who was banned by Linus - [2]? [1] https://lwn.net/Articles/518942/ [2] https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/4/2/420 Reco -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140915153018.GA3085@x101h
Re: disabled login prompt problem
> > I got as far as choosing this PAM option from a list but could not find the > list at the terminal and eventually had to shutdown and reboot. Woops. Many thanks for taking the time to respond to my query on this > When I did this I got a login prompt that doesn't ask for a password. In other words, we can guess there's no program to call to query and text a password. > I am a bit stuck here. Have you tried having the boot loader pass the single-user parameter? I managed to reboot into the recovery mode with grub. I then managed to apt-get update again and the DVD reloaded. I also installed gnome. Gnome fired up OK in recovery mode and I then opened a root terminal and did aptitude dist-upgrade as well and didn't get the PAM problem this time as well and carried on with apt-get update and apt-get clean etc and then downloaded extra files from the repositories and got both dpkg --audit and apt-get check (or is it aptitude check) to run without complaint. All in recovery mode. But try as I might gnome wouldn't fire up in normal boot mode. I checked dmesg and var/log/messages etc to look for a crash explanation but could not see much there. The only thing was a firmware rtl type error message. So I reinstalled instead. I have backups of the work files I use. > I have a weekly build of Debian Testing DVD #1 I burned at the weekend. > > I am trying to get the OS reading from the DVD again. Booting the DVD, dropping to rescue mode, and mounting the hard disk would allow you a look at the logs to see what it was trying to do and how far it got when you couldn't move ahead. I did look at the logs as you suggested but maybe not all of the ones that would be helpful here. By the way, the firestarter package is not in Jessie (Testing). I installed something called firewalld and an applet program nearby in the synaptic alphabetical list of packages. This package seems to work differently from other firewalls. A dumb level, how do I know if it is working? Will it automatically work after being installed or does it need to be manually set? > Suggestions welcome here. On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 1:54 PM, Joel Rees wrote: > On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 6:54 PM, Michael Fothergill > wrote: > > Dear Debian folks, > > > > I am running Debian Testing on an AMD64 box. > > > > I was trying to update it with new packages and got dependency problems. > > > > I got as far as choosing this PAM option from a list but could not find > the > > list at the terminal and eventually had to shutdown and reboot. > > Woops. > > > When I did this I got a login prompt that doesn't ask for a password. > > In other words, we can guess there's no program to call to query and > text a password. > > > I am a bit stuck here. > > Have you tried having the boot loader pass the single-user parameter? > > In a grub boot menu, you would hit e for edit and add "single" to the > "linux" line. > > I'm not sure whether you'll be able to run dpkg at that point, but, if > so, you might be able to have a re-go at the PAM module. I'm not sure > that will be enough, either. > > You may need to bring up the network interface first, of course, or > point dpkg to your install DVD. > > > I have a weekly build of Debian Testing DVD #1 I burned at the weekend. > > > > I am trying to get the OS reading from the DVD again. > > Booting the DVD, dropping to rescue mode, and mounting the hard disk > would allow you a look at the logs to see what it was trying to do and > how far it got when you couldn't move ahead. > > > Suggestions welcome here. > > May be some hints here: > > > https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch02.en.html#_recovery_from_a_broken_system > > https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch03.en.html#_stage_2_the_boot_loader > https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch04.en.html > https://wiki.debian.org/PAM > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_GRUB > > -- > Joel Rees > > Be careful where you see conspiracy. > Look first in your own heart, > and ask yourself if you are not your own worst enemy. > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact > listmas...@lists.debian.org > Archive: > https://lists.debian.org/CAAr43iPmAq8ipqUURDE9dA=92jb0q56oka8qrkpqdzgoui0...@mail.gmail.com > >
Re: disabled login prompt problem
Booting the DVD, dropping to rescue mode, and mounting the hard disk would allow you a look at the logs to see what it was trying to do and how far it got when you couldn't move ahead. I did look at the logs as you suggested but maybe not all of the ones that would be helpful here. By the way, the firestarter package is not in Jessie (Testing). I installed something called firewalld and an applet program nearby in the synaptic alphabetical list of packages. This package seems to work differently from other firewalls. A dumb level, how do I know if it is working? Will it automatically work after being installed or does it need to be manually set? Looking on some Debian pages, I now see that firestarter works with Gnome and the default window manager I got when I installed was XFCE. I didn't know that. On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 4:49 PM, Michael Fothergill < michael.fotherg...@googlemail.com> wrote: > > > > > I got as far as choosing this PAM option from a list but could not find > the > > list at the terminal and eventually had to shutdown and reboot. > > Woops. > > Many thanks for taking the time to respond to my query on this > > > When I did this I got a login prompt that doesn't ask for a password. > > In other words, we can guess there's no program to call to query and > text a password. > > > I am a bit stuck here. > > Have you tried having the boot loader pass the single-user parameter? > > I managed to reboot into the recovery mode with grub. I then managed to > apt-get update again and the DVD reloaded. I also installed gnome. Gnome > fired up OK in recovery mode and I then opened a root terminal and did > aptitude dist-upgrade as well and didn't get the PAM problem this time as > well and carried on with apt-get update and apt-get clean etc and then > downloaded extra files from the repositories and got both dpkg --audit and > apt-get check (or is it aptitude check) to run without complaint. All in > recovery mode. But try as I might gnome wouldn't fire up in normal boot > mode. I checked dmesg and var/log/messages etc to look for a crash > explanation but could not see much there. The only thing was a firmware > rtl type error message. > > So I reinstalled instead. I have backups of the work files I use. > > > I have a weekly build of Debian Testing DVD #1 I burned at the weekend. > > > > I am trying to get the OS reading from the DVD again. > > Booting the DVD, dropping to rescue mode, and mounting the hard disk > would allow you a look at the logs to see what it was trying to do and > how far it got when you couldn't move ahead. > > I did look at the logs as you suggested but maybe not all of the ones that > would be helpful here. By the way, the firestarter package is not in Jessie > (Testing). I installed something called firewalld and an applet program > nearby in the synaptic alphabetical list of packages. This package seems > to work differently from other firewalls. A dumb level, how do I know if > it is working? Will it automatically work after being installed or does it > need to be manually set? > > > Suggestions welcome here. > > > > On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 1:54 PM, Joel Rees wrote: > >> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 6:54 PM, Michael Fothergill >> wrote: >> > Dear Debian folks, >> > >> > I am running Debian Testing on an AMD64 box. >> > >> > I was trying to update it with new packages and got dependency problems. >> > >> > I got as far as choosing this PAM option from a list but could not find >> the >> > list at the terminal and eventually had to shutdown and reboot. >> >> Woops. >> >> > When I did this I got a login prompt that doesn't ask for a password. >> >> In other words, we can guess there's no program to call to query and >> text a password. >> >> > I am a bit stuck here. >> >> Have you tried having the boot loader pass the single-user parameter? >> >> In a grub boot menu, you would hit e for edit and add "single" to the >> "linux" line. >> >> I'm not sure whether you'll be able to run dpkg at that point, but, if >> so, you might be able to have a re-go at the PAM module. I'm not sure >> that will be enough, either. >> >> You may need to bring up the network interface first, of course, or >> point dpkg to your install DVD. >> >> > I have a weekly build of Debian Testing DVD #1 I burned at the weekend. >> > >> > I am trying to get the OS reading from the DVD again. >> >> Booting the DVD, dropping to rescue mode, and mounting the hard disk >> would allow you a look at the logs to see what it was trying to do and >> how far it got when you couldn't move ahead. >> >> > Suggestions welcome here. >> >> May be some hints here: >> >> >> https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch02.en.html#_recovery_from_a_broken_system >> >> https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch03.en.html#_stage_2_the_boot_loader >> https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch04.en.html >> https://wiki.debian.org/PAM >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU
Re: View on UNIX purism in Linux Community
On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 11:07:35 -0400 Doug wrote: > On 09/15/2014 03:31 AM, sa...@eng.it wrote: > > Bartosz Olender writes: > > > Therefore I want to poke my three cents into this discussion > > > reminding that "GNU is *Not* Unix" > > > > May I recall that most of the systemd-haters knows the recursive > > expansion of GNU? > > > > Most of us are no interested in what Stallman or whoever created back > in 1995. We don't think of Linux as GNU. Linux is much more Unix than > anything else. And it certainly is _not_ what GNU was back then. > > I don't like to get involved in this dumb tirade, but the GNU business > grates on me! > It's all irrelevant. Bad programming practice is bad programming practice, wherever and however it occurs. Bad programming practice can be acceptable if it brings benefits large enough to outweigh the badness. -- Joe -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140915183959.673c2...@jresid.jretrading.com
[ANNOUNCE] apt-offline 1.5
I am very pleased to announce the release of apt-offline, version 1.5. In version 1.4, the offline bug report functionality had to be dropped. In version 1.5, it is back again. apt-offline now uses the new Debian native BTS library. Thanks to its developers, this library is much more slim and neat. The only catch is that it depends on the SOAPpy library which currently is not stock in Python. If you run apt-offline of Debian, you may not have to worry as I will add a Recommends on that package. For users using it on Microsoft Windows, please ensure that you have the SOAPpy library installed. It is available on pypi. The old bundled magic library has been replaced with the version of python magic library that Debian ships. This library is derived from the file package and is portable on almost all Unixes. For Debian users, there will be a Recommends on it too. There were also a bunch of old, outstanding, and annoying bugs that have been fixed in this release. For a full list of changes, please refer to the git logs. With this release, apt-offline should be in good shape for the Jessie release. apt-offline is available on Alioth @ https://alioth.debian.org/projects/apt-offline/ rrs@learner:~/devel/apt-offline/apt-offline (master)$ axi-cache show apt-offline Package: apt-offline Description-en: offline APT package manager apt-offline is an Offline APT Package Manager. . apt-offline can fully update and upgrade an APT based distribution without connecting to the network, all of it transparent to APT. . apt-offline can be used to generate a signature on a machine (with no network). This signature contains all download information required for the APT database system. This signature file can be used on another machine connected to the internet (which need not be a Debian box and can even be running windows) to download the updates. The downloaded data will contain all updates in a format understood by APT and this data can be used by apt-offline to update the non-networked machine. . apt-offline can also fetch bug reports and make them available offline. Description-md5: 7487fa218999d3466bc1f427d657de2f -- Ritesh Raj Sarraf | http://people.debian.org/~rrs Debian - The Universal Operating System -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54172f5c.1090...@debian.org
Re: View on UNIX purism in Linux Community
W dniu 15.09.2014 19:39, Joe pisze: > On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 11:07:35 -0400 > Doug wrote: > >> On 09/15/2014 03:31 AM, sa...@eng.it wrote: >>> Bartosz Olender writes: >>> > Therefore I want to poke my three cents into this discussion >>> > reminding that "GNU is *Not* Unix" >>> >>> May I recall that most of the systemd-haters knows the recursive >>> expansion of GNU? >>> >> >> Most of us are no interested in what Stallman or whoever created back >> in 1995. We don't think of Linux as GNU. Linux is much more Unix than >> anything else. And it certainly is _not_ what GNU was back then. >> >> I don't like to get involved in this dumb tirade, but the GNU business >> grates on me! >> > > It's all irrelevant. Bad programming practice is bad programming > practice, wherever and however it occurs. Bad programming practice can > be acceptable if it brings benefits large enough to outweigh the > badness. > I am not defending systemd programmers but, could you clarify what do you exactly mean by bad programming practices? signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Issues upgrading Wheezy --> Jessie (was ... Re: brasero requires gvfs)
On 13/09/14 22:46, lee wrote: I'd be happy to see some support. I cannot speak for "the users" or for "the free software community". You users, and the community members, whoever they are, need to speak as well. OK, so I'll "speak as well". :-) But first of all I'd like to thank you and some other people here for trying so hard to stop a development that I consider very unfortunate. I have been using Linux for almost 20 years now. In the beginning the main problem for me was to find software that could do what I wanted. Today I am spending a considerable amount of time trying to get rid of components and "features" that I neither need nor want. I recently managed to get rid of the dbus daemon (in Wheezy) by removing evince, liferea, zenity, and jackd2. I replaced these by qpdfview, rawdog, xdialog (from Debian Archives) and jackd1, and freed over 100 MB of disc space in the process. I used to program in Assembler back in the days of MŚ DOS, and in my books the best program for a particular job is still the one that consumes the least amount of resources while doing what needs to be done. When Videolan (now vlc) was new, it made me happy by enabling me to watch DVDs almost jerk-free on a 386SX. Today, vlc tries to pull in some 45(!) or so additional packages to do the same thing. Isn't that somewhat ridiculous? And isn't it also ridiculous when a PDF reader refuses to open a file that you give it because there is no "dbus" running? Of course I still have libdbus, libdconf and all that stuff installed, as other packages depend on it even without dbus and gnome, and _something_ keeps creating a ".pulse" directory and a ".pulse-cookie" file in my $HOME although I never used or installed Pulseaudio. My impression is that most of the issues I've had with Debian recently (e. g. with udev after upgrades) originate from the same corner of the Linux universe, namely the developers of so-called "Desktop Environments" who keep trying to convert Linux into some sort of free (?) MS Windows. And the solution, in my humble opinion, might be to split Debian into a branch for Desktop Environment users and a branch for users who do not want such "integration". And by the way - if it is true that systemd comes from a company that does business with the military and with secret services, that alone would be enough of a reason for me to reject it. Thanks for listening. peter -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/lv7cgt$un3$1...@ger.gmane.org
Re: View on UNIX purism in Linux Community
On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 20:32:45 +0200 Bartosz Olender wrote: > I am not defending systemd programmers but, could you clarify what do > you exactly mean by bad programming practices? Creating weird situations about things that used to work well for _years_ (eg: the kernel debug switch), then put the blame on others (that these things are broken - eg: "not my fault, your problem"), and finally refusing to fix their own mistakes by claiming the problem's isn't their's (eg: the waiting dead loop of udev or the afore mentioned kernel debug). Think about a sub-contractor telling you that your car key's now replaced by a camera waiting for you making a jump on your car hood, you answering that as a one-legged man you can't, and the guy telling you that it is your fault, not his… -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140915205738.0047ddfe@msi.defcon1
jessie installation
Hi, I'm trying to install jessie amd64 and with the installer I got two important issues: 1st: when it asked me about non free drivers, I told him that there were in an external device (usb), but it never saw after several attemps. 2nd. I need to manually partition my disk as it have another distribution on it plus home and I don't want to loose them. The installer gave me the oportunity to manually make the operation, but later it never gave the chance to actually do it, could somebody please tell me how I can do it with the jessie netinstall? I burned a usb with the iso image and the machine is an Atom of 2 cores. Thank you in advance Adrian
Creating a forum for systemd debate (was Re: Issues upgrading Wheezy --> Jessie (was ... Re: brasero requires
gvfs)) Reply-To: Joel Roth In-Reply-To: <5416e94a.8070...@attglobal.net> Jerry Stuckle wrote: > On 9/15/2014 3:27 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote: > > On Sunday 14 September 2014 19:42:40 Steve Litt wrote: > >> Every time you tell one of us to keep silent, three more of us speak > >> up. I don't know whether we're a minority, but if you and your cohorts > >> keep shushing us, we just might be the majority pretty soon. > > > > I wasn't telling anyone to keep silent!! You are so fixated in your > > beliefs > > that you don't bother with facts any longer! > > > > I have asked you personally to keep silent because you do repeat and repeat > > and repeat and repeat But I haven't been successful have I? > > > > As you acknowledge, you are part of a minority. Do stop bullying the rest > > of > > us. > > > > Lisi > > > > > > Or, maybe there are a lot of people (like me) who have watched this > discussion with interest, but remained silent. I, too, don't like the > way Debian is taking things with systemd. From a device driver > developer's POV, I don't see any advantages, and see a lot of > disadvantages. Plus, like others, I don't like the attitude of the > systemd developers. > > So far I've seen some good reasons why Debian should not go that way. > But I've seen few technical reasons why this is a good idea. Most of > the comments by supporters are along the lines of "this is a good thing" > (with no reasons), "It's going to happen so get used to it", or just > plain "shut up already!". > > I've also read all of the past discussions referenced in this and other > discussions. All they have done is make me even more leery of systemd. > > I would love to hear some good technical reasons why this is a good idea. I find it interesting that the decision to adopt systemd as Debian's default init system was made by the technical committee, whereas some of the large issues that I think *should* influence the decision are related to the attitude and behavior of the systemd developers. I just re-reviewed the LKML thread where Linus criticizes Kay Siever's behavior, and how Lennart responds. I'm no connosieur of the argmentation styles on LKML, but the systemd guys come across as acting like they're our new bosses, and showing none of the humility and accountability I would expect. To me, the non-technical issues raise a huge red flag. I'd prefer not to surrender control of my system to someone I don't trust. For now, I'm running sysvinit and the systemd libraries are available for the few programs I'm using that need them. However, in the long term, I can see how systemd dependencies in the packaging system will gradually reduce user options to configure systems without systemd. I sympathize with those posting to the list with strong opinions and a tone of alarm. IMO, they have legitimate reasons to consider their software ecosystem to be in peril. Perhaps they would like to sway the Debian community at large, or failing that, to sway enough technically skilled people to create a fork of Debian that doesn't depend on systemd. I think it should be possible to find or create a forum for those who are concerned about this issue. I know that I would subscribe. I can also sympathize with those who don't want this list dominated by a flame war. Regards, Joel > Jerry > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org > Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5416e94a.8070...@attglobal.net > -- Joel Roth -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140915193354.GB18149@sprite
Re: View on UNIX purism in Linux Community
On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 20:32:45 +0200 Bartosz Olender wrote: > W dniu 15.09.2014 19:39, Joe pisze: > > On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 11:07:35 -0400 > > Doug wrote: > > > >> On 09/15/2014 03:31 AM, sa...@eng.it wrote: > >>> Bartosz Olender writes: > >>> > Therefore I want to poke my three cents into this discussion > >>> > reminding that "GNU is *Not* Unix" > >>> > >>> May I recall that most of the systemd-haters knows the recursive > >>> expansion of GNU? > >>> > >> > >> Most of us are no interested in what Stallman or whoever created > >> back in 1995. We don't think of Linux as GNU. Linux is much more > >> Unix than anything else. And it certainly is _not_ what GNU was > >> back then. > >> > >> I don't like to get involved in this dumb tirade, but the GNU > >> business grates on me! > >> > > > > It's all irrelevant. Bad programming practice is bad programming > > practice, wherever and however it occurs. Bad programming practice > > can be acceptable if it brings benefits large enough to outweigh the > > badness. > > > > I am not defending systemd programmers but, could you clarify what do > you exactly mean by bad programming practices? > In this case, I wasn't really being specific, just pointing out that names like GNU and Unix don't imply any monopoly on good or bad programming, nor necessarily any restriction on where Debian and other Linux distributions go. Vital as Stallman's tools were to begin the process, Linux and other Unix derivatives have moved beyond the point where it is either Stallman's way or commercial Unix's way. They have, at the moment at least, a life of their own. But specifically here, any dependency that isn't genuinely and functionally necessary is inherently a bad idea. Always, though sometimes the alternatives are worse. It is what OO programming was created to minimise. Something intended to interact with a wide range of other software should need no detailed knowledge of that software, and vice versa, other a button or two in one part which is pressed by the other. The battle between monolithic, centrally-controlled IT systems and mostly-autonomous distributed systems is long over, in terms of reliability and resilience. The idea that you could throw together a few hundred building blocks of Windows, out of a choice of thousands, and still have a stable and reliable operating system is laughable, yet at the moment we can do this with Linux. But this has all been well-discussed, and the issue here in Debian-user is how the decisions already made will affect Debian, and whether the apparent default roadmap is the only one, or the most desirable, or whether it can actually be avoided by individuals, or whether Debian should make any effort to accommodate people who don't want to go with the flow. -- Joe -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140915215529.743d9...@jresid.jretrading.com
Re: View on UNIX purism in Linux Community
On 09/15/2014 11:33 AM, B wrote: On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 11:07:35 -0400 Doug wrote: Most of us are no interested in what Stallman or whoever created back in 1995. We don't think of Linux as GNU. Ahhh, so you are the declared and _democratically elected_ spokesman of, let's say 80% of the Linux community (shit, I should read more news and articles: nobody told me about that!) Linux is much more Unix than anything else. This is an interesting declaration, although it calls for a tiny bit more than your words for us to agree. And it certainly is _not_ what GNU was back then. Once again, this is your words, please develop that in a way we, poor dumb asses of users (but ô highly represented ;-p), can understand. I don't like to get involved in this dumb tirade, but the GNU business grates on me! Ohhh, as a spokesman you aren't very friendly to the people you're representing - so once again, pleeease develop your rant so we, poor dumb users, can understand why GNU, which has been our guardian and in a manner our way of life for the last 30 years, is sooo meeean (Richard, if you read me, it's whenever you want:) Sorry, I see only that he represented his views, which also happens to coincide with my own. Please, if you have to label someone, you've lost your argument's points from the get-go. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: "There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54175730.9090...@gmail.com
Re: Creating a forum for systemd debate
On Mon, 15 Sep 2014, Joel Roth wrote: > I think it should be possible to find or create a forum for those who > are concerned about this issue. I know that I would subscribe. Please create one and subscribe. It's trivial to create mailing lists on lists.alioth.debian.org, or you can use non-Debian resources. Let me know when you've done so, and I'll be happy to point anyone who continues to post to this mailing list about systemd there. > I can also sympathize with those who don't want this list dominated by > a flame war. Yes, please. The pro/anti systemd discussion isn't on topic for this mailing list. -- Don Armstrong http://www.donarmstrong.com One day I put instant coffee in my microwave oven and almost went back in time. -- Steven Wright -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140915211559.gh8...@teltox.donarmstrong.com
Re: View on UNIX purism in Linux Community
Am Montag, 15. September 2014, 21:55:29 schrieb Joe: > On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 20:32:45 +0200 > > Bartosz Olender wrote: > > W dniu 15.09.2014 19:39, Joe pisze: > > > On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 11:07:35 -0400 > > > > > > Doug wrote: > > > > > > > > >> On 09/15/2014 03:31 AM, sa...@eng.it wrote: > > >>> Bartosz Olender writes: > > >>> > Therefore I want to poke my three cents into this discussion > > >>> > reminding that "GNU is *Not* Unix" > > >>> > > >>> May I recall that most of the systemd-haters knows the recursive > > >>> expansion of GNU? > > >> > > >> Most of us are no interested in what Stallman or whoever created > > >> back in 1995. We don't think of Linux as GNU. Linux is much more > > >> Unix than anything else. And it certainly is _not_ what GNU was > > >> back then. > > >> > > >> I don't like to get involved in this dumb tirade, but the GNU > > >> business grates on me! > > > > > > > > > > > > It's all irrelevant. Bad programming practice is bad programming > > > practice, wherever and however it occurs. Bad programming practice > > > can be acceptable if it brings benefits large enough to outweigh the > > > badness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not defending systemd programmers but, could you clarify what do > > you exactly mean by bad programming practices? > > > > > > In this case, I wasn't really being specific, just pointing out that > names like GNU and Unix don't imply any monopoly on good or bad > programming, nor necessarily any restriction on where Debian and > other Linux distributions go. Vital as Stallman's tools were to begin > the process, Linux and other Unix derivatives have moved beyond the > point where it is either Stallman's way or commercial Unix's way. They > have, at the moment at least, a life of their own. Seriously, how many threads about systemd versus initscripts do we have now here on this list? At some time I stopped counting. What is so boring about… well… using *one* thread? I have mixed thoughts and feelings about systemd… but on the other hand I think discussing this further here… is… a waste of time – as it won´t change anything. Unless you want to run a petition… or seek help to develop an *alternative*. If all the time spend here in discussing was spend into developing an alternative or improving an existing alternative, this alternative would be ready now. Maybe it would even run circles around systemd given the time it must have taken to write all the then of thousands of posts regarding systemd here. (Yes, I might be exaggerating a bit.) (Joe, not directed to you personally, but to everyone who starts a new systemd thread here every other second.) Ciao, -- Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/2584439.xBoI04i6hU@merkaba
Re: View on UNIX purism in Linux Community
On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 17:16:32 -0400 Ric Moore wrote: > Sorry, I see only that he represented his views, which also happens to > coincide with my own. Please, if you have to label someone, you've > lost your argument's points from the get-go. :) Ric I don't wanna stigmatize anybody; what I'd like to read is a structured explanation of all points you and your friend are putting forth, instead of: "it's not good the way it is". -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140915235802.77516ed9@msi.defcon1
Re: Error with Latest Google Chrome Stable
sven> Downgrade to the latest working version. Luckily, I was able to find a couple of earlier Chrome versions in /var/cache/apt/archives/ in order to downgrade. What if I'd removed all the archived 'apt' files to save space? This leads to the following question ... Is there a known Google site that contains either all previous Chrome versions or at least the last few? I tried to find such a site/ location, but couldn't. Thanks, -Kenneth -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/87egvcmtdh@be.cs.appstate.edu
Re: View on UNIX purism in Linux Community
On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 23:48:02 +0200 Martin Steigerwald sent: > I have mixed thoughts and feelings about systemd… but on the other > hand I think discussing this further here… is… a waste of time – as > it won´t change anything. I'm uncertain if that's correct. It certainly highlights some features and flaws and peoples preferences and even though it's often disparaged, imagine that some developers and programmers read posts on this list relevant to their work. Anyway I think that the real subject is, as others have said, the ability to choose. True freedom is having a choice, and as some have stated, the only choice they see may be to move to another operating system if Debian doesn't give them choice within it. But there is always choice. The default is not a worry. Again, if there is choice to use something else. I have never set up a Debian system allowing taskel or whatever, to select packages for me, so whatever the preferred or default. I choose my own and I always imagined, probably unrealistically, that most Debian users did likewise. Like speed signs on road corners, default is only a recommendation and shouldn't be a challenge. The user should be able to choose to ignore it, go slower or faster. Though I'm not a programmer and really know very little about Debian [as someone once said - the lifetime learning experience] imagine the installer could present a choice of systemd or sys** whatever? The wiki could point out advantages and disadvantages of both? With regard to programmer above, I have no idea how difficult it is to produce packages that will work with different choices. So I imagine that we only really need to ask the programmers to give us who wish to remain with Debian, a choice. Charlie -- Registered Linux User:- 329524 *** To be on a quest is nothing more or less than to become an asker of questions. --Sam Keen *** Debian GNU/Linux - just the best way to create magic - -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140916084636.58f70599@taogypsy
Re: View on UNIX purism in Linux Community
Charlie writes: > Though I'm not a programmer and really know very little about Debian > [as someone once said - the lifetime learning experience] imagine the > installer could present a choice of systemd or sys** whatever? The > wiki could point out advantages and disadvantages of both? That is being vigorously debate on debian-devel. The technical committee ruled that Systemd should be come the default init system (though that decision could be overruled by the developers in General Resolution) but the details are still being discussed. It seems clear to me that you are not going to get silently "upgraded" when you do a dist-upgrade. -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/87k354jxby@thumper.dhh.gt.org
Re: brasero requires gvfs
Steve Litt writes: > On Sat, 13 Sep 2014 21:54:56 +0200 > lee wrote: >> >> Can you have, say, KDE on Gentoo without systemd? "Without systemd" >> means *all* of systemd, like systemd-login0 etc.. > > But in answer to your question, my official answer is "I don't know." > Now I'll give you a guess: KDE functioned, um, as well as it can ever > function, long before the invention of systemd, so I'd assume it still > could function that way on a systemd-less system. It didn't really function a few years ago when I tried it. > And this KDE discussion brings into sharp focus my real gripe about > systemd: I can use any distro I want in a KDE-free configuration. No > big deal: if I'm willing to do without k3b, I can do it. But to get a > systemd-free configuration, I need to change distros or change to > OpenBSD. The problem is that changing distros won't help because they all depend on systemd. Gentoo probably doesn't create its own versions of all kinds software depending on systemd for not to depend on it, does it? And who knows what kind of problems you run into when you switch to some BSD. Are there NVIDIA drivers for some BSD? Is everything I'm using now available for some BSD? > By the way, if you wonder why I'm being so hard on KDE, these three > articles explain: Well, I'm using fvwm. Unlike KDE, it does exactly what I want, doesn't get into my way and is much less buggy. Why would I use KDE? -- Knowledge is volatile and fluid. Software is power. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/87zje0plo5@yun.yagibdah.de
Let's have a vote! (was: Re: Issues upgrading Wheezy --> Jessie (was ... Re: brasero requires gvfs))
Lisi Reisz writes: > On Saturday 13 September 2014 21:46:31 lee wrote: >> You users, and the community members, >> whoever they are, need to speak as well. > > Perhaps, just perhaps, many of them don't agree. Well, I've now seen two people speaking up in response, and 0% of them spoke in favour of systemd. If there were so many people disagreeing, they must be a minority because so few of them speak up. BTW, I'm finding myself trying to get rid of things running on computers I never need or want, which has become a rather tedious task and shouldn't be necessary. It's difficult to rid of such things, and it can be more difficult or even impossible to find out what they actually do in order to decide whether I need them or not. It shouldn't be that way. And I'd also like to hear what advantages systemd actually brings about that would make it desirable. If there were so many people disagreeing that forcing systemd upon the users, why aren't there any of them speaking up and explaining why systemd is supposed to be such a great idea? Perhaps, just perhaps, many users and community members do not disagree. Shall we have a vote? AFAIK, there's nothing that would speak against having one, in this very mailing list. Why not ask the users? Why should only Debian developers be allowed to vote but not the users? Since users are the developers' priority, why do the devs never ask them? And since they never do, I suppose we have to have votes by ourselves. -- Knowledge is volatile and fluid. Software is power. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/87sijspifa@yun.yagibdah.de
Re: brasero requires gvfs
On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 00:24:10 +0200 lee wrote: > Steve Litt writes: > > And who knows what kind of problems you run into when you switch to > some BSD. Are there NVIDIA drivers for some BSD? Is everything I'm > using now available for some BSD? My biggest problem is I can't yet get qemu to run Debian or Ubuntu VMs on OpenBSD, for those few programs that don't run on OpenBSD. > > > By the way, if you wonder why I'm being so hard on KDE, these three > > articles explain: > > Well, I'm using fvwm. Unlike KDE, it does exactly what I want, > doesn't get into my way and is much less buggy. Why would I use KDE? fvwm is a kickass window manager! My friends who use it make it walk and talk, and it's about as lightweight as you can get. It pretty much runs anywhere. Configuring it isn't the easiest thing in the world, and I'm highly pleased with Openbox so I haven't devoted a lot of time to mastering fvwm, but I've seen it used expertly, and it's outstanding. SteveT Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/ Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140915202940.433bf...@mydesq2.domain.cxm
Re: Creating a forum for systemd debate
On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 14:15:59 -0700 Don Armstrong wrote: > Yes, please. The pro/anti systemd discussion isn't on topic for this > mailing list. Precisely. Bugs and user difficulties produced by innumerable dependencies have nothing to do with Debian-Users, it's merely an interesting discussion for developers. I love these guys who summarily declare something, affecting everyday users, offtopic on this mailing list. Like I said to Lisi, every time you shush one of us, three more pop up. SteveT Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/ Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140915202407.0d496...@mydesq2.domain.cxm
Re: View on UNIX purism in Linux Community
On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 06:08:49PM -0500, John Hasler wrote: > Charlie writes: > > Though I'm not a programmer and really know very little about Debian > > [as someone once said - the lifetime learning experience] imagine the > > installer could present a choice of systemd or sys** whatever? The > > wiki could point out advantages and disadvantages of both? > > That is being vigorously debate on debian-devel. The technical > committee ruled that Systemd should be come the default init system > (though that decision could be overruled by the developers in General > Resolution) but the details are still being discussed. It seems clear > to me that you are not going to get silently "upgraded" when you do a > dist-upgrade. https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/08/msg00977.html https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/09/msg4.html > -- > John Hasler > jhas...@newsguy.com > Elmwood, WI USA -- Joel Roth -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140916013818.GA25680@sprite
KVM Guest - Best Display Resolution
Dear All, what settings do you use in KVM for Linux guests? The resolution with VNC / VGA is 1024x768 only. If I choose Spice / QXL the resolution is better, but colors aren't displayed properly and some letters are missing! In the Debian guest I installed the packages xserver-xspice and spice-client-gtk, but it wasn't better. So how do you configure KVM-guests with graphical interface? -- Gruß, Christian -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5417954c.7050...@postbox.xyz
Re: View on UNIX purism in Linux Community
On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 15:38:18 -1000 Joel Roth sent: > On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 06:08:49PM -0500, John Hasler wrote: > > Charlie writes: > > > Though I'm not a programmer and really know very little about > > > Debian [as someone once said - the lifetime learning experience] > > > imagine the installer could present a choice of systemd or sys** > > > whatever? The wiki could point out advantages and disadvantages > > > of both? > > > > That is being vigorously debate on debian-devel. The technical > > committee ruled that Systemd should be come the default init system > > (though that decision could be overruled by the developers in > > General Resolution) but the details are still being discussed. It > > seems clear to me that you are not going to get silently "upgraded" > > when you do a dist-upgrade. > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/08/msg00977.html > https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/09/msg4.html > > > > -- > > John Hasler > > jhas...@newsguy.com > > Elmwood, WI USA > > -- > Joel Roth Good news and reasoning. Having a choice of sys to use in Debian is well within it's charter I feel. Thank you for the links. Charlie -- Registered Linux User:- 329524 *** Nature makes no mistakes. In such a universe, a decision which results in one's death, is not a mistake. It is simply a way of dying at the right moment. --Alan Watts *** Debian GNU/Linux - just the best way to create magic - -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140916124033.4f901d8b@taogypsy
Re: Query about .xsession-errors file
On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 15:07:48 +0800 Bret Busby wrote: > On 15/09/2014, Chen Wei wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 09, 2014 at 03:29:04PM +0800, Bret Busby wrote: > >> .xsession-errors, which is currently sitting at about 740MB, and > >> has been growing in the last hour. > >> > >> entries from before the current boot session) entries, so as to > >> reduce the file size to content that is necessary to retain for > >> debugging? > >> > > > > If debugging is not required, redirect xsession error to /dev/null > > is another option. > > > > in /etc/X11/Xsession, find the line: > > > > exec >>"$ERRFILE" 2>&1 > > > > change it to: > > > > exec >>/dev/null 2>&1 > > > > -- > > Chen Wei > > > > > > Hello. > > At this time, after doing what I had done, that I had previously > stated, the file is still at zero bytes, so I think that it is > probably better, to leave the error handling as it is, and, monitor it > daily, to detect any change, and then, act on any changes to the file. > > However, thank you for the suggestion, which I shall retain for future > consideration. > > If you do not want it to disappear altogether, you can just prune it. I have this in my ¨/home//.bash_profile¨ file: # prune the ~/.xsession-errors file if it grows beyond 1Mb if [ $(du -b ~/.xsession-errors | cut -f1) -gt 1048576 ]; then KEEP_LINES="$(tail -n 100 ~/.xsession-errors)" echo "$KEEP_LINES" > ~/.xsession-errors fi Keeps it under control but still usable. cheers, greywolf -- It is about the Dragons - it was always about the Dragons! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140916123918.17f58b2c@babylon
trying to remove wicd
I want to get wicd off my system, but am having a problem. All the installer utilities say that it's not installed, but 'which' and other things tell a different story: root@debian:~# which wicd /usr/sbin/wicd root@debian:~# Also, in spite of the installer messages, there are lots of wicd-related files in the system: tom$ locate /etc/dbus-1/system.d/wicd.conf /etc/default/wicd /etc/init.d/wicd /etc/rc0.d/K01wicd /etc/rc1.d/K01wicd /etc/rc2.d/S18wicd /etc/rc3.d/S18wicd /etc/rc4.d/S18wicd /etc/rc5.d/S18wicd /etc/rc6.d/K01wicd And on and on for about 300 lines of file names When I do wicd or wicd-client as root, the stuff runs (and does nothing but give error messages). wicd is unknown to non-root users: Here is the apt-get message: root@debian:~#/home/tom/system/wireless# apt-get purge wicd Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done Package 'wicd' is not installed, so not removed !! 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 1 not upgraded. root@debian:~#/home/tom/system/wireless# Likewise with aptitude and dpkg. How do I get rid of the stuff? My goal is to do wireless connection using the command line, but I want the wicd stuff off the system before I try to do it. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAFKYrxp_O8QZA=SVNvcR+skG=vouv9eosrpl82itrhr3_fw...@mail.gmail.com
Re: trying to remove wicd
On 15/09/14 11:37 PM, tom arnall wrote: I want to get wicd off my system, but am having a problem. All the installer utilities say that it's not installed, but 'which' and other things tell a different story: root@debian:~# which wicd /usr/sbin/wicd root@debian:~# Also, in spite of the installer messages, there are lots of wicd-related files in the system: tom$ locate /etc/dbus-1/system.d/wicd.conf /etc/default/wicd /etc/init.d/wicd /etc/rc0.d/K01wicd /etc/rc1.d/K01wicd /etc/rc2.d/S18wicd /etc/rc3.d/S18wicd /etc/rc4.d/S18wicd /etc/rc5.d/S18wicd /etc/rc6.d/K01wicd And on and on for about 300 lines of file names When I do wicd or wicd-client as root, the stuff runs (and does nothing but give error messages). wicd is unknown to non-root users: Here is the apt-get message: root@debian:~#/home/tom/system/wireless# apt-get purge wicd Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done Package 'wicd' is not installed, so not removed !! 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 1 not upgraded. root@debian:~#/home/tom/system/wireless# Likewise with aptitude and dpkg. How do I get rid of the stuff? My goal is to do wireless connection using the command line, but I want the wicd stuff off the system before I try to do it. What the message is telling is that there is no package installed called wicd. You need to find out (try searching packages.debian.org) which package wicd is part of. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5417b2ca.10...@torfree.net
Re: trying to remove wicd
On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 20:37:02 -0700 tom arnall wrote: > How do I get rid of the stuff? apt-get install wicd apt-get purge wicd -- Men94 : You've got MSN? Aerendil : No, but I have a STD if you want. Men94 : cool send it. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Let's have a vote!
On 2014-09-16 02:00 +0200, lee wrote: > Lisi Reisz writes: > >> On Saturday 13 September 2014 21:46:31 lee wrote: >>> You users, and the community members, >>> whoever they are, need to speak as well. >> >> Perhaps, just perhaps, many of them don't agree. > > Well, I've now seen two people speaking up in response, and 0% of them > spoke in favour of systemd. If there were so many people disagreeing, > they must be a minority because so few of them speak up. Okay, so I will speak up. Only once, because I don't have time, desire or energy to engage in endless flamewars about systemd. > And I'd also like to hear what advantages systemd actually brings about > that would make it desirable. https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem/systemd should get you started. > If there were so many people disagreeing that forcing systemd upon the > users, why aren't there any of them speaking up and explaining why > systemd is supposed to be such a great idea? Presumably because they have other, more important things to do (see above). Anyway, what is "forced" upon users is not systemd as PID 1 (aka systemd-sysv), but rather systemd-logind, shipped in the systemd package and usable together with sysvinit (or upstart) and systemd-shim. Here is another pointer as to why this is done: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/06/msg00455.html > Shall we have a vote? AFAIK, there's nothing that would speak against > having one, in this very mailing list. Why not ask the users? Why > should only Debian developers be allowed to vote but not the users? Because the people who do the work get to make the decisions, that's the way Debian works. Cheers, Sven -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/8761gow4qv@turtle.gmx.de
Re: KVM Guest - Best Display Resolution
Hi. On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 03:41:32AM +0200, Chris wrote: > Dear All, > > what settings do you use in KVM for Linux guests? > > The resolution with VNC / VGA is 1024x768 only. If I choose Spice / QXL > the resolution is better, but colors aren't displayed properly and some > letters are missing! Try VNC/VMVga or VNC/Cirrus. That might do the trick for you. > In the Debian guest I installed the packages xserver-xspice and > spice-client-gtk, but it wasn't better. > > So how do you configure KVM-guests with graphical interface? Both packages do not do anything if installed in the guest. You need 'xserver-xorg-video-qxl' to be installed. Reco -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140916051136.GA9400@x101h
Re: Creating a forum for systemd debate
On 15/09/14 at 02:15pm, Don Armstrong wrote: > On Mon, 15 Sep 2014, Joel Roth wrote: > > I think it should be possible to find or create a forum for those who > > are concerned about this issue. I know that I would subscribe. > > Please create one and subscribe. It's trivial to create mailing lists on > lists.alioth.debian.org, or you can use non-Debian resources. Let me > know when you've done so, and I'll be happy to point anyone who > continues to post to this mailing list about systemd there. > > > I can also sympathize with those who don't want this list dominated by > > a flame war. > > Yes, please. The pro/anti systemd discussion isn't on topic for this > mailing list. God (or whatever of your choice) bless you -- « Nunc est bibendum, nunc pede libero pulsanda tellus » -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140916061157.gb2...@gmail.com
