Re: FWIW: script vs. configurtion file

[saint]

Joel Rees writes:

 > Programming is a field of mathematics. Mathematically speaking, limiting a
 > language to a declarative syntax does not mean that the language ceases to
 > be a language.

But it could lose the Turing completeness.

-- 
 /\   ___Ubuntu: ancient
/___/\_|_|\_|__|___Gian Uberto Lauri_   African word
  //--\| | \|  |   Integralista GNUslamicomeaning "I can
\/ coltivatore diretto di software   not install
 già sistemista a tempo (altrui) perso...Debian"

Warning: gnome-config-daemon considered more dangerous than GOTO


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/21455.24345.954393.806...@mail.eng.it

Latest Jessie doesn't respond to /etc/default/tmpfs "RAMTMP=yes"

[Rick Thomas]

I’m trying to get /tmp on tmpfs, so I put “RAMTMP=yes” in /dev/default/tmpfs .

But I don’t get /tmp/mounted on tmpfs.

I’ve got plenty of ram and swap:

> rbthomas@jessie:~$ cat /proc/meminfo | egrep '^(Mem|Swap)Total:'
> MemTotal:1017648 kB
> SwapTotal:   2928636 kB

Here’s my /etc/default/tmpfs file:

> # Configuration for tmpfs filesystems mounted in early boot, before
> # filesystems from /etc/fstab are mounted.  For information about
> # these variables see the tmpfs(5) manual page.
> 
> # /run is always mounted as a tmpfs on systems which support tmpfs
> # mounts.
> 
> # mount /run/lock as a tmpfs (separately from /run).  Defaults to yes;
> # set to no to disable (/run/lock will then be part of the /run tmpfs,
> # if available).
> #RAMLOCK=yes
> 
> # mount /run/shm as a tmpfs (separately from /run).  Defaults to yes;
> # set to no to disable (/run/shm will then be part of the /run tmpfs,
> # if available).
> #RAMSHM=yes
> 
> # mount /tmp as a tmpfs.  Defaults to no; set to yes to enable (/tmp
> # will be part of the root filesystem if disabled).  /tmp may also be
> # configured to be a separate mount in /etc/fstab.
> RAMTMP=yes
> 
> # Size limits.  Please see tmpfs(5) for details on how to configure
> # tmpfs size limits.
> TMPFS_SIZE=50%VM
> #RUN_SIZE=10%
> #LOCK_SIZE=5242880 # 5MiB
> #SHM_SIZE=
> TMP_SIZE=20%VM
> 
> # Mount tmpfs on /tmp if there is less than the limit size (in kiB) on
> # the root filesystem (overriding RAMTMP).
> #TMP_OVERFLOW_LIMIT=1024

The same config works on Wheezy…

Rick

--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/9e4f302e-61a1-41ad-b7f3-8a9ec2d17...@pobox.com

Re: wireless routing broken after recent sid update

[Paul Scott]

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 02:23:12PM -0700, Paul Scott wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 10:56:55PM +0200, B wrote:
> > On Tue, 22 Jul 2014 13:19:12 -0700
> > Paul Scott  wrote:
> > 
> > > No change.
> > > 
> > > > Also set a DHCP server up (link-local shouldn't be there).
> > > 
> > > I am using isc-dhcp-client.
> > 
> > Ok, but is there a functional DHCP _server_ on your LAN?
> 
> Yes.  This laptop installation worked fine until a couple of weeks 
> ago.
> 
> Wireless is now working again after reinstalling netwotk-manager-gnome.

Wireless routing is broken again.  It appears that connecting with ethernet 
may fix the routing so that I can remove the cable and then connect 
wirelessly.  Booting and letting network-manager use its defaults to 
connect wirelessly fails.  I can still ssh to the server wirelessly.

Paul

> (Wired hadn't stopped working)
> 
> route now gives:
> 
> Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric RefUse Iface
> default 192.168.0.1 0.0.0.0 UG1024   00 wlan0
> link-local  *   255.255.0.0 U 1000   00 wlan0
> 192.168.0.0 *   255.255.255.0   U 0  00 wlan0
> 
> > 
> > Join your /etc/network/interfaces
> 
> ???
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Paul
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
> Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140722212312.GA19444@joyhome
> 
> 


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140723071157.GA22847@joyhome

Re: testing-dedicated ML? ( was Re: End of hypocrisy ? )

[Lisi Reisz]

On Wednesday 23 July 2014 03:55:36 The Wanderer wrote:
> Then people promptly started expressing confusion over the whole thing,
> and here we are.

Curt often loses me.  He is well named. ;-)

Lisi


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201407230819.50551.lisi.re...@gmail.com

Re: FWIW: script vs. configurtion file

[Tony Baldwin]

On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 03:46:56PM +0900, Joel Rees wrote:
> Programming is a field of mathematics. Mathematically speaking, limiting a
> language to a declarative syntax does not mean that the language ceases to
> be a language.

I would argue that programming is linguistics (being a linguist, myself,
and a professional translator), but I would also argue that math is
language (a symbolic means of representing our perception of reality).

tony
-- 
http://www.myownsite.me
web design, development and hosting


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140723074038.ga27...@myownsite.me

missing LSB tags and overrides

[Tony van der Hoff]

Any suggestions on how to fix this please?


insserv: warning: script 'K01kerneld' missing LSB tags and overrides
insserv: warning: script 'K01apache' missing LSB tags and overrides
insserv: warning: script 'S15modutils' missing LSB tags and overrides
insserv: warning: script 'S15libdevmapper1.02' missing LSB tags and
overrides
insserv: warning: script 'S15xfree86-common' missing LSB tags and overrides
insserv: warning: script 'xfree86-common' missing LSB tags and overrides
insserv: warning: script 'libdevmapper1.02' missing LSB tags and overrides
insserv: warning: script 'modutils' missing LSB tags and overrides
insserv: warning: script 'iptables' missing LSB tags and overrides
insserv: warning: script 'kerneld' missing LSB tags and overrides
insserv: warning: script 'apache' missing LSB tags and overrides

-- 
Tony van der Hoff  | mailto:t...@vanderhoff.org
Ariège, France |


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53cf6714.9090...@vanderhoff.org

Re: wireless routing broken after recent sid update

[Pascal Hambourg]

Paul Scott a écrit :
> On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 08:36:04PM +0200, Pascal Hambourg wrote:
>>>
>>> route gives me:
>>>
>>> Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric RefUse 
>>> Iface
>>> default *   0.0.0.0 U 1002   00 eth0
>> You have a bogus default route on eth0. It has a lower metric (higher
>> priority) than the one on wlan0 and basically says that the whole
>> internet address space is on the LAN connected to eth0.
>> Get rid of it.
> 
> This is generated automatically by the system (network-manager, 
> or network-manager-gnome).  Do you know where this happens?

No. But hey, this is sid.
As a workaround until an update fixes the bug, I guess you can manually
disable the wired ethernet interface in NetworkManager when you don't
use it.


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53cf6429.6080...@plouf.fr.eu.org

Re: testing-dedicated ML? ( was Re: End of hypocrisy ? )

[Zenaan Harkness]

On 7/23/14, Lisi Reisz  wrote:
> On Wednesday 23 July 2014 03:55:36 The Wanderer wrote:
>> Then people promptly started expressing confusion over the whole thing,
>> and here we are.
>
> Curt often loses me.  He is well named. ;-)

I recommend going back to read that initial reply from "Dr. Jeckyll"
to my email way above. In the hindsight of understanding, you might
find the whole episode very funny. (Or not - I have been told I've a
strange sense of humour :)

Be careful where you see humour,
Look first, there might be a conspiracy.

Or something.

X)

Kind regards all,
Zenaan


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/caosgnsszqkezc0u+7lyt6vb+fqtzco2zqc-n1ker2osfp3z...@mail.gmail.com

How to remove bottom panel in classic mode of gnome 3.12 ?

[lumin]

Hi,

My system is updated debian jessie. gnome updated to 3.12 today.
seems that jessie will land on gnome-3.12.
I just want to remove (or hide) the bottom panel in classic mode,
to work with a white coloured gnome.

Searched with google, many result say that this key combination works:
Super + Alt + RightClick
but it just worked on gnome flashback mode (e.g. wheezy gnome 3.4),
instead of *gnome 3.12 classic* mode.

Another way I found that may work is modifying
/usr/share/gnome-shell/theme/gnome-{shell,classic}.css
but I found NOTHING after scanning it several times,
there is only a /* TOP BAR */ section.

Any one knows how to deal with it ?
Thank you. :-)


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1406106759.6730.11.camel@int

Re: mutt can't send mail (Interrupted system call)

[Wilko Fokken]

Moin mitnanner, moin Anthony.


I remember having had similar problems with my mutt/wheezy on my laptop.
(My mails are handled by my provider; I use fetchmail to get them.)

As Interrupt reactions of your mail system could be due to missing files
or directories, I put an excerpt of my own exim4/mutt configuration here
running under Wheezy in order to assist you in evaluating your entries.

(my local login name = wwf)


~/.muttrc (mode= 0640, owner =wwf:mail)
---
...
my_hdr From:wfok...@web.de (my email address at my email provider)
...
set realname="Wilko Fokken"

set editor=vim  (make sure vim is found by mutt!)

set charset=UTF-8
...

set folder=~/Mail   # Where my mail folders go
set postponed=~/Mail/mutt/postponed # Where to put postponed messages
set tmpdir=/tmp
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Make sure to install directories according to .muttrc contents:

mkdir -p ~/Mail/archive
cd ~/Mail/archive
touch now

mkdir -p ~/Mail/mutt
cd ~/Mail/mutt
touch postponed
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

check for entry in /etc/email-addresses:

wwf:wfok...@web.de

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

my mail files (mode= 0660, owner= wwf:mail)
are located in directory:
/var/mail (mode= 2775, owner= root:mail)

~

in directory /etc/exim4/ (0755, root:root), I modified 3 files:


/etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf:
--
(active entries = my alterations)

# dc_eximconfig_configtype='local'
dc_eximconfig_configtype='smarthost'
#
# dc_other_hostnames=''
dc_other_hostnames=''
#
# dc_local_interfaces='127.0.0.1'
dc_local_interfaces='127.0.0.1 ; ::1'
#
# dc_readhost=''
dc_readhost='fok02.laje.edewe.de'   (=my local mailname)
#
dc_relay_domains=''
#
# dc_minimaldns='false'
dc_minimaldns='true'
#
dc_relay_nets=''
#
# dc_smarthost=''
dc_smarthost='smtp.web.de'  (my provider's smtp address)
#
CFILEMODE='644'
#
# dc_use_split_config='false'
dc_use_split_config='true'
#
# dc_hide_mailname=''
dc_hide_mailname='true'
#
dc_mailname_in_oh='true'
#
dc_localdelivery='mail_spool'
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


/etc/exim4/passwd.client:
-
# Example:
# target.mail.server.example:login:password
#
smtp.web.de::
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

/etc/exim4/conf.d/router/800_exim4-config_maildrop:
---
#  check_local_user (ORIG: this entry was activated)

~
~

(in order to keep my original configuration, I save
 my original files in an added subdir: "./ORIG/")

Good luck!

Wilko


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140723091521.ga5...@fok02.laje.edewe.de

Re: Latest Jessie doesn't respond to /etc/default/tmpfs "RAMTMP=yes"

[Michael Biebl]

Hi Rick

Am 23.07.2014 um 09:12 schrieb Rick Thomas:
> 
> I’m trying to get /tmp on tmpfs, so I put “RAMTMP=yes” in /dev/default/tmpfs .
> 
> But I don’t get /tmp/mounted on tmpfs.

/etc/default/tmpfs is a sysvinit specific config file. If you are
running systemd, enabling /tmp on tmpfs is as simple as
"systemctl enable tmp.mount"


Regards,
Michael


-- 
Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the
universe are pointed away from Earth?



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Iceape and Debian 7.x

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 11:58:44AM +0800, Bret Busby wrote:
> Hello.
> 
> Is a .deb package of iceape or seamonky, available for Debian 7.x (amd64)?
> 
> I have not been able to find one.
> 
> Thank you in anticipation.
> 

I'm fairly sure the whole package was removed as no longer supported upstream.

Checking the package tracking ssytem, looks as if it was removed in February 
2014

https://packages.qa.debian.org/iceape.html

[Found by Googling "Debian iceape removal" ]

Al the best,

AndyC


> -- 
> Bret Busby
> Armadale
> West Australia
> ..


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140723101911.ga6...@galactic.demon.co.uk

Re: Latest Jessie doesn't respond to /etc/default/tmpfs "RAMTMP=yes"

[Javier Barroso]

Hello,
First, Michael thank for your Debian work,
On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 11:50 AM, Michael Biebl  wrote:
> Hi Rick
>
> Am 23.07.2014 um 09:12 schrieb Rick Thomas:
>>
>> I’m trying to get /tmp on tmpfs, so I put “RAMTMP=yes” in /dev/default/tmpfs 
>> .
>>
>> But I don’t get /tmp/mounted on tmpfs.
>
> /etc/default/tmpfs is a sysvinit specific config file. If you are
> running systemd, enabling /tmp on tmpfs is as simple as
> "systemctl enable tmp.mount"
Is it possible to add this comment to tmpfs manpage (initscripts
package), or maybe to have a alternative configure option
(tmpfs.sysvinit and tmpfs.systemd), so you can read the correct man
page about tmpfs in the system where you are running ?

I'm not sure which of both options is better

Thank you !


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/CAL5yMZRiVq1=7k7jzhqhcz6hp_nnqtrgrap6lvmkd_eaowz...@mail.gmail.com

Re: FWIW: script vs. configurtion file

[Joel Rees]

2014/07/23 16:41 "Tony Baldwin" :
>
> On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 03:46:56PM +0900, Joel Rees wrote:
> > Programming is a field of mathematics. Mathematically speaking, limiting a
> > language to a declarative syntax does not mean that the language ceases to
> > be a language.
>
> I would argue that programming is linguistics (being a linguist, myself,
> and a professional translator), but I would also argue that math is
> language (a symbolic means of representing our perception of reality).
>
> tony

Yeah.

ttps://www.google.co.jp/search?q=mathematical languages

More to the point,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formal_grammar


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/CAAr43iNBhB-yv2+8ozx2+oPDpXuq-XeNs6thtroG2Gz9Kqz=u...@mail.gmail.com

kFreeBSD: can't create swap partition

[berenger . morel]

Hello list.

I have decided to give a try to the amd64 kFreeBSD port, testing 
version, hosted by virtualbox on a Debian amd64 testing.


I had some warnings that the installer asked me if I wanted to ignore 
(and that I stupidly forgot to write somewhere, but I'll probably do 
more than one installation so I'll find them anew later to report them) 
and I did it.


I also tried to do a remote installation through ssh for better 
interface (virtualbox is horrible on that) but the installer wa


Now, when coming to the partition creation, it seems that it is unable 
to create the swap partition. I will probably try to continue without 
one, but in the meantime, if someone have any clue about the problem, it 
will interest me.


The log (TTY4) if filled with messages like this:
Processing event '!system=DEVFS subsystem=CDEV


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/4032cda51431c1b85a486c85fa714...@neutralite.org

Re: FWIW: script vs. configurtion file

[saint]

Joel Rees writes:
 > 2014/07/23 16:41 "Tony Baldwin" :
 > >
 > > On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 03:46:56PM +0900, Joel Rees wrote:
 > > > Programming is a field of mathematics. Mathematically speaking, limiting 
 > > > a
 > > > language to a declarative syntax does not mean that the language ceases 
 > > > to
 > > > be a language.
 > >
 > > I would argue that programming is linguistics (being a linguist, myself,
 > > and a professional translator), but I would also argue that math is
 > > language (a symbolic means of representing our perception of reality).
 > 
 > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formal_grammar

Confusion Warning!

The Formal Language Theory _belongs_ to several disciplines
(mathematics, linguistics, computer science) and while the programming
language design is inherently close to linguistics, not all
programming is.

-- 
 /\   ___Ubuntu: ancient
/___/\_|_|\_|__|___Gian Uberto Lauri_   African word
  //--\| | \|  |   Integralista GNUslamicomeaning "I can
\/ coltivatore diretto di software   not install
 già sistemista a tempo (altrui) perso...Debian"

Warning: gnome-config-daemon considered more dangerous than GOTO


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/21455.36919.830969.37...@mail.eng.it

Re: FWIW: script vs. configurtion file

[Zenaan Harkness]

On 7/23/14, Joel Rees  wrote:
> I suppose I'll get complaints about this being off-topic, but perhaps we
> can expose a disagreement on terminology without the clutter and heat of
> the discussion in  which it came up.

Not offtopic at all, since some (heated, or protracted)
discussions, drag out due to the lack of shared terminology/
shared understanding of concepts being discussed.

So thank you Joel for spending the time to describe these
concepts as 'pedantically' as you have. Your descriptions
are an excellent grounding for the conversation which is
undoubtedly going to continue :)

Best regards,
Zenaan

PS, I also don't recall ever mentioning, I really like your usual
.sig, which is missing from this particular email.


> Words, when spoken, mean what the speaker meant. When heard, they mean what
> the listener thinks they mean. Communiction only occurs when there is some
> agreement  between the two.
>
> Programming is a field of mathematics. Mathematically speaking, limiting a
> language to a declarative syntax does not mean that the language ceases to
> be a language.
>
> Trying to assert that configuration files which are limited to declarations
> are not scripts is most kindly viewed as an assertion that the
> configuration file syntax is simpler (for some definition of simple) than
> configuration files that are allowed a greater number of constructs (for
> example, conditions, loops, definitions, etc.).
>
> This is a subjective matter. One person's simple is not guaranteed to be
> every person's simple.
>
> A known consequence of limiting syntax to declarations is that certain
> kinds of complexity which can be exposed by a richer syntax end up being
> hidden by the limited syntax.
>
> The complexities do not actually disappear, they are just hidden, becoming
> implicit, buried in the definitions of  the things being declared.
>
> Whether hiding such complexities is truly simplification or not is often
> (but not always) a matter of taste.
>
> One thing is pretty much guaranteed: as the semantic domain of the
> declarative language is expanded, the number of identifiers increases.
> Without care, the number of identfiers can increase exponentially.
>
> In other words, you end up trading the need to understand the richer set of
> constructs for a need to remember and understand a lot more identifiers.
>
> Also, if definition is one of the constructs eliminated from the language,
> you become entirely dependent on the providers of the language for
> functionality. If they choose not to provide an identifier that will invoke
> some function you need, you're stuck.
>
> (Of course, as long as the source for the interpreter is open and not too
> restricted, you might have a hope of digging into the interpreter and
> adding what you need yourself, if your skills are up to the job and you
> have the time to debug your efforts, etc.)
>
> (Maybe I'll get a chance, later, to re-write that a little less
> pedantically on  my blog, but I have another job waiting for me.)


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/caosgnsrstfthzfpltro5pmp5lfzefebjftdkivngohvy7yb...@mail.gmail.com

Re: kFreeBSD: can't create swap partition

[berenger . morel]

Sorry for the unfinished message, my fingers were not precise enough 
and/or too fast (tab and then space, instead of a and space... and the 
message is sent :/)


I have decided to give a try to the amd64 kFreeBSD port, testing
version, hosted by virtualbox on a Debian amd64 testing.

I had some warnings that the installer asked me if I wanted to ignore
(and that I stupidly forgot to write somewhere, but I'll probably do
more than one installation so I'll find them anew later to report
them) and I did it.

I also tried to do a remote installation through ssh for better
interface (virtualbox is horrible on that) but the installer
never gave me an IP address (this is probably due to the NAT interface 
of VBox I have used, so not a real problem I think. I should try the 
same with regular Linux kernel to check this hypothesis).


Now, when coming to the partition creation, it seems that it is
unable to create the swap partition. I will probably try to continue
without one, but in the meantime, if someone have any clue about the
problem, it will interest me.

The log (TTY4) if filled with messages like this:

Processing event '!system=DEVFS subsystem=CDEV type=CREATE 
cdev=diskid/DISK-VB291c06cf-2fef52d2s8'

devd: Pushing table
devd: Processing notify event
devd: Popping table


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/8d351fbb082b6b96d559cd4f5604c...@neutralite.org

Re: kFreeBSD: can't create swap partition

[berenger . morel]

Le 23.07.2014 12:49, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org a écrit :

Sorry for the unfinished message, my fingers were not precise enough
and/or too fast (tab and then space, instead of a and space... and 
the

message is sent :/)

I have decided to give a try to the amd64 kFreeBSD port, testing
version, hosted by virtualbox on a Debian amd64 testing.

I had some warnings that the installer asked me if I wanted to ignore
(and that I stupidly forgot to write somewhere, but I'll probably do
more than one installation so I'll find them anew later to report
them) and I did it.


Redoing it because I spent too many RAM in VMs, which made all VMs 
crash, so I have the warning message now:


=
Could not get identity of device /dev/ada0 - Inappropriate ioctl for 
device


Warning


=

(note that the translation is obviously really WiP :) but no problem, 
maybe I'll be able to help with that when it'll work for me)




I also tried to do a remote installation through ssh for better
interface (virtualbox is horrible on that) but the installer
never gave me an IP address (this is probably due to the NAT
interface of VBox I have used, so not a real problem I think. I 
should

try the same with regular Linux kernel to check this hypothesis).

Now, when coming to the partition creation, it seems that it is
unable to create the swap partition. I will probably try to continue
without one, but in the meantime, if someone have any clue about the
problem, it will interest me.

The log (TTY4) if filled with messages like this:

Processing event '!system=DEVFS subsystem=CDEV type=CREATE
cdev=diskid/DISK-VB291c06cf-2fef52d2s8'
devd: Pushing table
devd: Processing notify event
devd: Popping table


Other kinds of message uses DESTROY as type value, no real idea about 
what that means since at the point I am taking a look at those, there is 
no order to alter hard disk.
there are also sometimes those same messages for ad0sX, I guess adXsY 
have some share meaning with sdXY on linux?


The error message in the interface is not very informative except that 
it says that swap partition was requested to be built on 7th partition 
of /dev/ada0.


I'll give a try without swap I guess.


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/60d688a410f8948e238bbaa9beb0d...@neutralite.org

Re: XP style themes for various DE's in Debian repositories?

[Wilko Fokken]

On Sat, Jul 19, 2014 at 01:17:13PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> 
> IIRC the IceWM DE/WM had a theme called "BluePlastic" which looked one
> heck of a lot like XP. I used IceWM for about 4 years and recommend it
> highly, although from what I understand it's not all that well
> maintained, and its config programs, if you can install them at all,
> are lacking. So to really get IceWM to do your bidding (and it can),
> you're going to need to edit a few twitchy XML like files.
> 
> SteveT

I'm still using IceWM (Theme: win95 - with 12 virt. screens).

I like it, since it takes just 1 bottom(!) line (easier to watch through
my presbyopic glasses) leaving a maximum of free space on narrow screens.

Three tiny squares on this line show
a) cpu + hd activities
b) lan activity
c) wan activity

The rest of this line shows a digital clock (+ date under mouse cursor),
my 12 tiny virtual screen buttons + active progs. w/in a specific screen.

Progs. are started via a menu activated by  or the Start button
down left - practically the same as in Win95.

Screens are switched by  or selected by mouse click.

The little maintenance of IceWM has one advantage though: I keep my 4 old
configuration files and copy them into the updated Debian directory
(/etc/X11/icewm).

IceWM, to my opinion, is the fastest unimpaired WM I know of. 

Wilko


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140723112514.ga7...@fok02.laje.edewe.de

Re: Is "xhost +si:localuser:root" safe?

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2014-07-22 23:11:21 +0200, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> Am Dienstag, 22. Juli 2014, 17:48:24 schrieb Vincent Lefevre:
> > To be able to save/restore the XKB keymap in a /etc/pm/sleep.d script
> > (as a workaround for Debian bug 633849), xkbcomp needs to have access
> > to the display. The simplest solution I've found is a
> > 
> >   xhost +si:localuser:root
> > 
> > in my .xsession file.
> 
> I think more fine grained would be to use xauth extract / xauth merge.

Yes, perhaps a merge with ~root/.Xauthority

> Or just:
> 
> export XAUTHORITY=/home/$USER/.Xauthority

No, this will clash with gdm3 (if I choose to use it again).

> > I thought that this would be more or less equivalent to the current
> > status as root can due pretty much anything, such as getting the
> > user's X authority file via /proc/*/environ (my sleep.d script
> > could do the same thing, but this is a rather dirty solution).
> 
> Hmmm, okay, so tought about this solution. Why do you think it is dirty?

This is potentially insecure. I'm the only user of the machine, but
I want to method to still be safe if there are other users, just in
case. Some user may introduce fake XAUTHORITY values, such as a
symlink pointing to some /dev file... I don't like that.

> > 
> > [*] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2014/05/msg00045.html
> > http://superuser.com/a/573839 (This one even says that this
> > isn't much different from a raw "xhost +"!)
> 
> Well root can always set XAUTHORITY to some random user .Xauthority
> file, so I don´t see much of a difference.

The problem is that "xhost +" allows other non-root users to accede
the display of the user doing the "xhost +". "xhost +si:localuser:root"
doesn't have this problem.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140723115359.ga6...@xvii.vinc17.org

Re: FWIW: script vs. configurtion file

[saint]

Zenaan Harkness writes:

> So thank you Joel for spending the time to describe these
 > concepts as 'pedantically' as you have. Your descriptions
 > are an excellent grounding for the conversation which is
 > undoubtedly going to continue :)

One question. Can you give me an example of Turing completeness with
just declarations? 

If not, the description you refer to may be valid only when discussing
"configuration", and even there there is some loss.

[Scripts, in the Unix world - and GNU is a Unix replacement - are
 something almost Turing complete or Turing complete, depending on the
 language used for the a given script]

-- 
 /\   ___Ubuntu: ancient
/___/\_|_|\_|__|___Gian Uberto Lauri_   African word
  //--\| | \|  |   Integralista GNUslamicomeaning "I can
\/ coltivatore diretto di software   not install
 già sistemista a tempo (altrui) perso...Debian"

Warning: gnome-config-daemon considered more dangerous than GOTO


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/21455.43692.243729.192...@mail.eng.it

Re: End of hypocrisy ?

[maderios]

On 07/21/2014 07:30 AM, Erwan David wrote:

systemd-shim is no more an option in testing. the whole
systemd with all its bugs (very low shutdown, no suport for
policy-rc.d, etc..) is forced to users.

It was said that we would have a choice. Were is the choice ?


Hi
Remember that Debian testing is just...testing, so not stable.
You are not obligated to use it.
You have the choice, Wheezy / stable works well.
--
Maderios



--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53cfab89.3060...@gmail.com

Re: End of hypocrisy ?

[The Wanderer]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On 07/23/2014 08:33 AM, maderios wrote:

> On 07/21/2014 07:30 AM, Erwan David wrote:
> 
>> systemd-shim is no more an option in testing. the whole systemd
>> with all its bugs (very low shutdown, no suport for policy-rc.d,
>> etc..) is forced to users.
>> 
>> It was said that we would have a choice. Were is the choice ?
> 
> Hi Remember that Debian testing is just...testing, so not
> stable. You are not obligated to use it. You have the choice, Wheezy
> / stable works well.

This is a valid argument against complaining too much about bugs in
testing. (Not against reporting them, but this isn't a bug-report
forum.)

It is not an argument against raising objections to things that can
plausibly believed to be, not bugs, but intentional decisions.

Otherwise, when testing becomes the new stable, all the same objections
would be raised - and met with the response "You should have spoken up
while things were still in testing; now that stable has been released,
it's too late to change anything.".

If there are problems with something, it's important to speak up about
them while the something is still enough in flux or "under development"
that there's a chance those problems might be fixed.

- --
   The Wanderer

Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny.

A government exists to serve its citizens, not to control them.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
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=qI6i
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53cfad6c.7010...@fastmail.fm

Squeeze Soft Lockup on ESXi 5.1

[Martin Seener]

Hi,

Every 1 to 2 weeks i have that problem with some virtual machines - 
everythings runs on squeeze and ESXi 5.1 Hosts (Dell PowerEdge R510 
Machines)

This happens mostly at about 6:30am.

Sadly iam a newbie dechiffre Kernel traces, so i attached todays here.

uname -a: Linux workaholic7 2.6.32-5-amd64 #1 SMP Sun Sep 23 10:07:46 
UTC 2012 x86_64 GNU/Linux


VMWare Tools are not installed. Time is managed through ntpd. The Disk 
controller of the Host system is a Dell PERC and for the VM i used LSI 
SAS Controllers.


2014-07-23T06:30:36.177845+02:00 workaholic7 kernel: [1796994.163761] 
BUG: soft lockup - CPU#0 stuck for 74s! [rs:main Q:Reg:6261]
2014-07-23T06:30:54.552206+02:00 workaholic7 kernel: [1796994.472487] 
Modules linked in: nfs lockd fscache nfs_acl auth_rpcgss sunrpc ext2 
loop snd_pcm snd_timer evdev parport_pc parport snd soundcore 
snd_page_alloc pcspkr psmouse serio_raw i2c_piix4 i2c_core container 
shpchp pci_hotplug ac processor button ext4 mbcache jbd2 crc16 sd_mod 
crc_t10dif floppy mptsas mptscsih mptbase scsi_transport_sas e1000 
ata_generic ata_piix libata scsi_mod thermal thermal_sys [last unloaded: 
scsi_wait_scan]
2014-07-23T06:30:54.687543+02:00 workaholic7 kernel: [1796995.489727] 
CPU 0:
2014-07-23T06:30:54.687579+02:00 workaholic7 kernel: [1796995.489731] 
Modules linked in: nfs lockd fscache nfs_acl auth_rpcgss sunrpc ext2 
loop snd_pcm snd_timer evdev parport_pc parport snd soundcore 
snd_page_alloc pcspkr psmouse serio_raw i2c_piix4 i2c_core container 
shpchp pci_hotplug ac processor button ext4 mbcache jbd2 crc16 sd_mod 
crc_t10dif floppy mptsas mptscsih mptbase scsi_transport_sas e1000 
ata_generic ata_piix libata scsi_mod thermal thermal_sys [last unloaded: 
scsi_wait_scan]
2014-07-23T06:30:54.687585+02:00 workaholic7 kernel: [1796995.579262] 
Pid: 6261, comm: rs:main Q:Reg Not tainted 2.6.32-5-amd64 #1 VMware 
Virtual Platform
2014-07-23T06:30:54.687806+02:00 workaholic7 kernel: [1796995.579268] 
RIP: 0010:[] [] 
netlink_broadcast+0x0/0x29d
2014-07-23T06:30:54.687815+02:00 workaholic7 kernel: [1796995.583201] 
RSP: :880005203e08 EFLAGS: 00010246
2014-07-23T06:30:54.687818+02:00 workaholic7 kernel: [1796995.583205] 
RAX:  RBX: 88013c37c600 RCX: 0003
2014-07-23T06:30:54.687822+02:00 workaholic7 kernel: [1796995.583209] 
RDX:  RSI: 88013c37c600 RDI: 88013fb4c400
2014-07-23T06:30:54.687825+02:00 workaholic7 kernel: [1796995.583213] 
RBP: 81011673 R08: 0020 R09: 0020
2014-07-23T06:30:54.687828+02:00 workaholic7 kernel: [1796995.583218] 
R10: 88013c37c600 R11: 8125542f R12: 880005203d80
2014-07-23T06:30:54.687831+02:00 workaholic7 kernel: [1796995.583221] 
R13: 88013d886e00 R14: 0010 R15: 810250f3
2014-07-23T06:30:54.687835+02:00 workaholic7 kernel: [1796995.583227] 
FS: 7f5c54c8f700() GS:88000520() knlGS:
2014-07-23T06:30:54.687838+02:00 workaholic7 kernel: [1796995.583231] 
CS: 0010 DS:  ES:  CR0: 80050033
2014-07-23T06:30:54.687841+02:00 workaholic7 kernel: [1796995.583235] 
CR2: 006094a8 CR3: 00013b818000 CR4: 06f0
2014-07-23T06:30:54.687844+02:00 workaholic7 kernel: [1796995.801158] 
DR0:  DR1:  DR2: 
2014-07-23T06:30:54.687847+02:00 workaholic7 kernel: [1796995.801165] 
DR3:  DR6: 0ff0 DR7: 0400
2014-07-23T06:30:54.687849+02:00 workaholic7 kernel: [1796995.801169] 
Call Trace:
2014-07-23T06:30:54.687853+02:00 workaholic7 kernel: [1796995.801172] 
 [] ? nlmsg_notify+0x41/0x7c
2014-07-23T06:30:54.687857+02:00 workaholic7 kernel: [1796995.938052] 
[] ? neigh_timer_handler+0x0/0x255
2014-07-23T06:30:54.687859+02:00 workaholic7 kernel: [1796995.938063] 
[] ? neigh_timer_handler+0x249/0x255
2014-07-23T06:30:54.687862+02:00 workaholic7 kernel: [1796995.938203] 
[] ? run_timer_softirq+0x1c9/0x268
2014-07-23T06:30:54.687864+02:00 workaholic7 kernel: [1796995.938217] 
[] ? __do_softirq+0xdd/0x1a6
2014-07-23T06:30:54.687866+02:00 workaholic7 kernel: [1796995.938230] 
[] ? lapic_next_event+0x18/0x1d
2014-07-23T06:30:54.687868+02:00 workaholic7 kernel: [1796995.938242] 
[] ? call_softirq+0x1c/0x30
2014-07-23T06:30:54.687871+02:00 workaholic7 kernel: [1796995.938246] 
[] ? do_softirq+0x3f/0x7c
2014-07-23T06:30:54.687872+02:00 workaholic7 kernel: [1796995.938250] 
[] ? irq_exit+0x36/0x76
2014-07-23T06:30:54.687875+02:00 workaholic7 kernel: [1796995.938254] 
[] ? smp_apic_timer_interrupt+0x87/0x95
2014-07-23T06:30:54.687877+02:00 workaholic7 kernel: [1796995.938258] 
[] ? apic_timer_interrupt+0x13/0x20


i hope someone can help me!

Martin


--
Zum AUSTRAGEN schicken Sie eine Mail an 
debian-user-german-requ...@lists.debian.org
mit dem Subject "unsubscribe". Probleme? Mail an 
listmas...@lists.debian.org (engl)

Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53cf809b.6040...@seener.de

Re: missing LSB tags and overrides

[Darac Marjal]

On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 09:41:08AM +0200, Tony van der Hoff wrote:
> Any suggestions on how to fix this please?
> 
> 
> insserv: warning: script 'K01kerneld' missing LSB tags and overrides
> insserv: warning: script 'K01apache' missing LSB tags and overrides
> insserv: warning: script 'S15modutils' missing LSB tags and overrides
> insserv: warning: script 'S15libdevmapper1.02' missing LSB tags and
> overrides
> insserv: warning: script 'S15xfree86-common' missing LSB tags and overrides
> insserv: warning: script 'xfree86-common' missing LSB tags and overrides
> insserv: warning: script 'libdevmapper1.02' missing LSB tags and overrides
> insserv: warning: script 'modutils' missing LSB tags and overrides
> insserv: warning: script 'iptables' missing LSB tags and overrides
> insserv: warning: script 'kerneld' missing LSB tags and overrides
> insserv: warning: script 'apache' missing LSB tags and overrides

Step 1. Purge unconfigured packages providing init scripts. That is,
init scripts are considers conffiles so removing the package doesn't
remove the file. Because the package is removed, it doesn't get updates
to fix problems such as above.

Step 2. If you have any init scripts that you developed yourself, add
proper headers[1] to the script.

Step 3. If you have any init scripts that are provided by a third party,
add the proper headers to a file in /etc/insserv/overrides. The filename
must match that of the init script (not the symlinks thereto).


[1]: https://wiki.debian.org/LSBInitScripts/

> 
> -- 
> Tony van der Hoff  | mailto:t...@vanderhoff.org
> Ariège, France |
> 
> 
> -- 
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
> Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53cf6714.9090...@vanderhoff.org
> 


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: FWIW: script vs. configurtion file

[Joel Rees]

On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 9:29 PM,   wrote:
> Zenaan Harkness writes:
>
>> So thank you Joel for spending the time to describe these
>  > concepts as 'pedantically' as you have. Your descriptions
>  > are an excellent grounding for the conversation which is
>  > undoubtedly going to continue :)
>
> One question. Can you give me an example of Turing completeness with
> just declarations?
>
> If not, the description you refer to may be valid only when discussing
> "configuration", and even there there is some loss.
>
> [Scripts, in the Unix world - and GNU is a Unix replacement - are
>  something almost Turing complete or Turing complete, depending on the
>  language used for the a given script]

You know, I don't think I've seen very many configuration scripts,
even those using the richer aspects of bash, perl, python, et. al.,
which have made use of Turing completeness.

(And I do not think you intend to mean that the configuration scripts
themselves might sometimes be Turing complete.)

That's really beside the point.

You don't have to have a Turing complete scripting language for it to
contain constructs that have to be interpreted by reference to the
grammar rather than the symbols' names.

And, conversely, adding identifiers to attempt to cover every
necessary possible configuration is always going to result in a
boatload of arcane terms with arcane semantics. (And you still have
the issue of engineering clairvoyance versus allowing sysads to wire
together custom one-off configurations.)

You can't force simplification.

Or do you have something else in mind?

-- 
Joel Rees

Computer storage is just fancy paper.
The CPU is just a fancy pen.


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/CAAr43iOBsuKUOxZO776NZXBJHTMuPkn6xnt-f=uxwfbmdqi...@mail.gmail.com

Re: FWIW: script vs. configurtion file

[Steve Litt]

On Wed, 23 Jul 2014 15:46:56 +0900
Joel Rees  wrote:

> I suppose I'll get complaints about this being off-topic, 

Yeah you dirty dog :-)

> but perhaps
> we can expose a disagreement on terminology without the clutter and
> heat of the discussion in  which it came up.
> 
> Words, when spoken, mean what the speaker meant. When heard, they
> mean what the listener thinks they mean. Communiction only occurs
> when there is some agreement  between the two.
> 
> Programming is a field of mathematics. Mathematically speaking,
> limiting a language to a declarative syntax does not mean that the
> language ceases to be a language.
> 
> Trying to assert that configuration files which are limited to
> declarations are not scripts is most kindly viewed as an assertion
> that the configuration file syntax is simpler (for some definition of
> simple) than configuration files that are allowed a greater number of
> constructs (for example, conditions, loops, definitions, etc.).
> 
> This is a subjective matter. One person's simple is not guaranteed to
> be every person's simple.
> 
> A known consequence of limiting syntax to declarations is that certain
> kinds of complexity which can be exposed by a richer syntax end up
> being hidden by the limited syntax.
> 
> The complexities do not actually disappear, they are just hidden,
> becoming implicit, buried in the definitions of  the things being
> declared.

And, it just may be that you want this hiding. How much power over the
program do you want to put in the hands of Joe Ordinary User? As a tech
support guy, how much time do you want to spend supporting the user's
config *program*?

Although I spent 14 years making my living as a software developer,
there are times when I don't want the freedom to do absolutely
anything. This is why I switched away from Perl: I needed some
limitations.

> 
> Whether hiding such complexities is truly simplification or not is
> often (but not always) a matter of taste.

Yes! Taste, and the goal of the program. Maybe you *want* to put huge
power in the hands of the user, or at least the guy who configures the
program. Or maybe you don't.

There's a programming language called Lua, which, in my opinion, is the
most well constructed language in the world, although its lack of tried
and true addons caused me to move to Python. Anyway, game programmers
often use Lua for config files. In doing so, they give the user the
opportunity to add new capabilities to the game, or change existing
capabilities. I guess the best way to think of this is the game is an
API, and you tell it what to do by programming Lua to operate the API.

> 
> One thing is pretty much guaranteed: as the semantic domain of the
> declarative language is expanded, the number of identifiers increases.
> Without care, the number of identfiers can increase exponentially.
> 
> In other words, you end up trading the need to understand the richer
> set of constructs for a need to remember and understand a lot more
> identifiers.

Yes. Look no further than the config file for IceWM for an example. I'm
not sure how using a programming language would decrease the number of
identifiers though.

> 
> Also, if definition is one of the constructs eliminated from the
> language, you become entirely dependent on the providers of the
> language for functionality. If they choose not to provide an
> identifier that will invoke some function you need, you're stuck.

That's true. Of course, would you really fault the providers of the
language from not providing an identifier for "remove all content from
the doc, save, and delete the backup copy too"? Because if the guy
making the config with a Turning-complete programming language
accidentally does the wrong thing, that could happen.

I'm a huge fan of Yaml for config files. You can express almost any
data situation that way. If you like Yaml but want true
programmability, Lua would be pretty good, because you can do with Lua
tables pretty much anything you could do with Yaml, but you can also
write procedural or functional code to go along with that data. The
same could be said with Python dictionaries.

Shame on you for being OT! But for guys like me, who regularly write
programs so their Linux machine can efficiently run their businesses,
your post is an excellent and thought provoking resource. Thanks!

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140723100452.573d7...@mydesq2.domain.cxm

Re: FWIW: script vs. configurtion file

[Steve Litt]

On Wed, 23 Jul 2014 22:36:24 +0900
Joel Rees  wrote:


> And, conversely, adding identifiers to attempt to cover every
> necessary possible configuration is always going to result in a
> boatload of arcane terms with arcane semantics. (And you still have
> the issue of engineering clairvoyance versus allowing sysads to wire
> together custom one-off configurations.)
> 
> You can't force simplification.

Well, you can...

Just have the program read six identifiers from the config file, and
ignore everything else.

So the question is: How much simplification do you want to enforce,
given that the other side of the simplification coin is
non-configurability?

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140723101136.38a17...@mydesq2.domain.cxm

Re: FWIW: script vs. configurtion file

[saint]

Joel Rees writes:
 > On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 9:29 PM,   wrote:
 > > Zenaan Harkness writes:
 > >
 > >> So thank you Joel for spending the time to describe these
 > >  > concepts as 'pedantically' as you have. Your descriptions
 > >  > are an excellent grounding for the conversation which is
 > >  > undoubtedly going to continue :)
 > >
 > > One question. Can you give me an example of Turing completeness with
 > > just declarations?
 > >
 > > If not, the description you refer to may be valid only when discussing
 > > "configuration", and even there there is some loss.
 > >
 > > [Scripts, in the Unix world - and GNU is a Unix replacement - are
 > >  something almost Turing complete or Turing complete, depending on the
 > >  language used for the a given script]
 > 
 > You know, I don't think I've seen very many configuration scripts,
 > even those using the richer aspects of bash, perl, python, et. al.,
 > which have made use of Turing completeness.
 > 
 > (And I do not think you intend to mean that the configuration scripts
 > themselves might sometimes be Turing complete.)

1) Yes  you are right!  The correct version  of my sentence  in square
   brackets should have been

   [Scripts, in the Unix world - and GNU is a Unix replacement - are
something written in an almost-Turing-complete or Turing-complete
language]

   Blame on me for the error, kudos to you for understanding what I
   really meant.

2) When a program has a declarative configuration file, then you can
   select among a certain number of fixed behaviours. When a program
   has a Turing complete language for its configuration then that
   program is likely to be quickly extensible. 

   I admit that you could write a declarative configuration that lets
   you specify "scripts" to be executed by the "configured" program
   or the system. Frankly, I would put everything into a "script", much
   easier to write and maintain.
   
If the argument of the discussion was whether a declarative language
has or has not a grammar, then my point is outside this discussion,
and chances are that my limited English skills prevented me from
understanding that.

But I still have the feeling that the original post tried to
demonstrate a more general equivalence between declarative
configuration and "scripted" configuration.

That's all, folks :)!

-- 
 /\   ___Ubuntu: ancient
/___/\_|_|\_|__|___Gian Uberto Lauri_   African word
  //--\| | \|  |   Integralista GNUslamicomeaning "I can
\/ coltivatore diretto di software   not install
 già sistemista a tempo (altrui) perso...Debian"

Warning: gnome-config-daemon considered more dangerous than GOTO


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/21455.50927.788722.960...@mail.eng.it

Re: FWIW: script vs. configurtion file

[saint]

Steve Litt writes:

 > Although I spent 14 years making my living as a software developer,
 > there are times when I don't want the freedom to do absolutely
 > anything. This is why I switched away from Perl: I needed some
 > limitations.

Despite  limits may  be  a fun  challenge,  I prefer  to  give a  good
configuration ready and let everyone free to do as she likes.

That's the Debian way, and works quite well (even if not perfectly well).

-- 
 /\   ___Ubuntu: ancient
/___/\_|_|\_|__|___Gian Uberto Lauri_   African word
  //--\| | \|  |   Integralista GNUslamicomeaning "I can
\/ coltivatore diretto di software   not install
 già sistemista a tempo (altrui) perso...Debian"

Warning: gnome-config-daemon considered more dangerous than GOTO


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/21455.51221.838948.673...@mail.eng.it

Re: Lost high res desktop settings on vbox upgrade to 4.3.14

[Andreas Rönnquist]

On Sun, 20 Jul 2014 11:38:02 -0400,
Harry Putnam wrote:

>Any folks running jessie in a vbox vm... maybe will know what to do
>here. 
>
>I upgraded vbox from 4.3.10 to 4.3 14.  Now the best screen res I can
>get in 1024 x 768.   When it was something like 1500 x .  Not sure
>of exact setting but desktop was much larger when I logged in before
>this upgrade.
>

An ISO with guest additions is linked in the final post here:

https://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=62629

That solved the problem(s) for me.

best regards
-- Andreas Rönnquist
mailingli...@gusnan.se
gus...@gusnan.se


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140723170852.3e9a8...@debian-workstation.lan

Re: FWIW: script vs. configurtion file

[Steve Litt]

On Wed, 23 Jul 2014 16:35:01 +0200
sa...@eng.it wrote:

> Steve Litt writes:
> 
>  > Although I spent 14 years making my living as a software developer,
>  > there are times when I don't want the freedom to do absolutely
>  > anything. This is why I switched away from Perl: I needed some
>  > limitations.
> 
> Despite  limits may  be  a fun  challenge,  I prefer  to  give a  good
> configuration ready and let everyone free to do as she likes.
> 
> That's the Debian way, and works quite well (even if not perfectly
> well).

So then, it sounds to me like you would want to write your program as
an API, document the API, and let the user write one or more
[Perl|Python|Ruby|Lua] programs to use the API to make the program
work their way. So then, for the program, you would use a different
design process. For instance, when I start to design a program, my first
question is "what data will be involved?" But to design the program as
an API, I would think the first question would be "What capabilities
do I want the user to have?"

You know, the beauty of doing it your way would be that various people
would write all sorts of [Perl|Python|Ruby|Lua] programs to make your
API do different things, so it would be sort of like you wrote 50
programs at one time. And of course, the knowledgeable user could
modify one of those  [Perl|Python|Ruby|Lua] programs to make your
program perform in yet another unique way.

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140723110849.5e6a7...@mydesq2.domain.cxm

Re: FWIW: script vs. configurtion file

[Zenaan Harkness]

On 7/24/14, sa...@eng.it  wrote:
> Joel Rees writes:
>  > On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 9:29 PM,   wrote:
>  > > Zenaan Harkness writes:
>  > >
>  > >> So thank you Joel for spending the time to describe these
>  > >  > concepts as 'pedantically' as you have. Your descriptions
>  > >  > are an excellent grounding for the conversation which is
>  > >  > undoubtedly going to continue :)
>  > >
>  > > One question. Can you give me an example of Turing completeness with
>  > > just declarations?
>  > >
>  > > If not, the description you refer to may be valid only when discussing
>  > > "configuration", and even there there is some loss.

> 2) When a program has a declarative configuration file, then you can
>select among a certain number of fixed behaviours. When a program
>has a Turing complete language for its configuration then that
>program is likely to be quickly extensible.
>
>I admit that you could write a declarative configuration that lets
>you specify "scripts" to be executed by the "configured" program
>or the system. Frankly, I would put everything into a "script", much
>easier to write and maintain.

Each to his own thank you! Yes, taste it is :)

Scripting has its place, but from my extensive reading
of systemd docs and some of the old sysv startup scripts
(for postfix and various others over the years), give me
systemd unit files any day! Preference. Mine.

For games customization, scriptability sounds to make
a lot of sense to me. Might also make sense for some system
daemons, I dunno. But where a bunch of flags can be
specified, and satisfy typical/all daemon config needs,
declarative unit files appear *much* cleaner to my simpleton
eyes.

Time will tell I guess, but I strongly suspect that in daemon
land, unit files will prove to very successfuly cover the majority
of configuration use cases, with only rare/occasional call outs
to "user authored" scripts. Just got a gut feeling on this one.

Regards,
Zenaan


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/CAOsGNSRAvqrXQZ1ND9_neE3R27RJkQa1xM9-=LhCw=niamp...@mail.gmail.com

Fwd: FWIW: script vs. configurtion file

[Zenaan Harkness]

Arghh Gmail! Dangit!

This one was for the list.

cheers
zenaan


-- Forwarded message --
From: Zenaan Harkness 
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 01:03:16 +1000
Subject: Re: FWIW: script vs. configurtion file
To: Steve Litt 

On 7/24/14, Steve Litt  wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Jul 2014 15:46:56 +0900
> Joel Rees  wrote:
>
>> I suppose I'll get complaints about this being off-topic,
>
> Yeah you dirty dog :-)
>
>> but perhaps
>> we can expose a disagreement on terminology without the clutter and
>> heat of the discussion in  which it came up.
>>
>> Words, when spoken, mean what the speaker meant. When heard, they
>> mean what the listener thinks they mean. Communiction only occurs
>> when there is some agreement  between the two.
>>
>> Programming is a field of mathematics. Mathematically speaking,
>> limiting a language to a declarative syntax does not mean that the
>> language ceases to be a language.
>>
>> Trying to assert that configuration files which are limited to
>> declarations are not scripts is most kindly viewed as an assertion
>> that the configuration file syntax is simpler (for some definition of
>> simple) than configuration files that are allowed a greater number of
>> constructs (for example, conditions, loops, definitions, etc.).
>>
>> This is a subjective matter. One person's simple is not guaranteed to
>> be every person's simple.
>>
>> A known consequence of limiting syntax to declarations is that certain
>> kinds of complexity which can be exposed by a richer syntax end up
>> being hidden by the limited syntax.
>>
>> The complexities do not actually disappear, they are just hidden,
>> becoming implicit, buried in the definitions of  the things being
>> declared.
>
> And, it just may be that you want this hiding. How much power over the
> program do you want to put in the hands of Joe Ordinary User? As a tech
> support guy, how much time do you want to spend supporting the user's
> config *program*?
>
> Although I spent 14 years making my living as a software developer,
> there are times when I don't want the freedom to do absolutely
> anything. This is why I switched away from Perl: I needed some
> limitations.

...
> I'm a huge fan of Yaml for config files. You can express almost any
> data situation that way.

ACK!


> If you like Yaml but want true programmability, Lua would
> be pretty good, because you can do with Lua
> tables pretty much anything you could do with Yaml, but you can also
> write procedural or functional code to go along with that data. The
> same could be said with Python dictionaries.

Thanks for your tidbits re Lua, sounds like something to
add to my bucket list :)

> Shame on you for being OT! But for guys like me, who regularly write
> programs so their Linux machine can efficiently run their businesses,
> your post is an excellent and thought provoking resource. Thanks!

ACK.
And that's for your contributions too Steve,
Zenaan


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/CAOsGNSRhQPY2dQn0uM_Fk0tiP9XLdn5HR1tx3PxvOvL=qax...@mail.gmail.com

Re: FWIW: script vs. configurtion file

[David Guntner]

Joel Rees grabbed a keyboard and wrote:
> 2014/07/23 16:41 "Tony Baldwin" :
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 03:46:56PM +0900, Joel Rees wrote:
>>> Programming is a field of mathematics. Mathematically speaking, limiting a
>>> language to a declarative syntax does not mean that the language ceases to
>>> be a language.
>>
>> I would argue that programming is linguistics (being a linguist, myself,
>> and a professional translator), but I would also argue that math is
>> language (a symbolic means of representing our perception of reality).
>>
>> tony
> 
> Yeah.
> 
> ttps://www.google.co.jp/search?q=mathematical languages
> 
> More to the point,
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formal_grammar

Even MORE to the point:

http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic

Please take it there.





smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature

Re: Iceape and Debian 7.x

[Bret Busby]

On Wed, 23 Jul 2014, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:



On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 11:58:44AM +0800, Bret Busby wrote:

Hello.

Is a .deb package of iceape or seamonky, available for Debian 7.x (amd64)?

I have not been able to find one.

Thank you in anticipation.



I'm fairly sure the whole package was removed as no longer supported upstream.

Checking the package tracking ssytem, looks as if it was removed in February 
2014

https://packages.qa.debian.org/iceape.html

[Found by Googling "Debian iceape removal" ]

Al the best,

AndyC




Thank you for that.

It sounds like the Zeroth Law Of Thermodynamics, if I remember it 
correctly.


Looks like I'll have to try to install Seamonkey using the tarball 
method, which used to cause problems, when it was the Netscape suite.


--
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
  Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
  "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
  A Trilogy In Four Parts",
  written by Douglas Adams,
  published by Pan Books, 1992



--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/alpine.deb.2.00.1407232321450.11...@bret-dd-workstation.busby.net

Re: FWIW: script vs. configurtion file

[saint]

Steve Litt writes:
 > On Wed, 23 Jul 2014 16:35:01 +0200
 > sa...@eng.it wrote:
 > 
 > > Steve Litt writes:
 > > 
 > >  > Although I spent 14 years making my living as a software developer,
 > >  > there are times when I don't want the freedom to do absolutely
 > >  > anything. This is why I switched away from Perl: I needed some
 > >  > limitations.
 > > 
 > > Despite  limits may  be  a fun  challenge,  I prefer  to  give a  good
 > > configuration ready and let everyone free to do as she likes.
 > > 
 > > That's the Debian way, and works quite well (even if not perfectly
 > > well).
 > 
 > So then, it sounds to me like you would want to write your program as
 > an API, document the API, and let the user write one or more
 > [Perl|Python|Ruby|Lua] programs to use the API to make the program
 > work their way.

You have three ways to write a program: write simple programs that do
one thing and can be combined with other programs to do more complex
things (i.e. `ls /bin /usr/bin` #command substitution implied :) ),
write a program with a set of capabilities and write a program with
a set of capabilities PLUS an extension mechanism. An interpreted
language is, in my experience, the easiest way, since the user could
write the extension on the fly.

 > So then, for the program, you would use a different
 > design process. For instance, when I start to design a program, my first
 > question is "what data will be involved?" But to design the program as
 > an API, I would think the first question would be "What capabilities
 > do I want the user to have?"

Usually a program has "use cases" that is "doing some actions on some
information". You need both of them.

 > You know, the beauty of doing it your way would be that various people
 > would write all sorts of [Perl|Python|Ruby|Lua] programs to make your
 > API do different things, so it would be sort of like you wrote 50
 > programs at one time. And of course, the knowledgeable user could
 > modify one of those  [Perl|Python|Ruby|Lua] programs to make your
 > program perform in yet another unique way.

True.

A less knowledgeable user would use the program as is or import
"modules" other people create.

I am not an expert in image manipulation software but I use the modules
other people wrote for The Gimp.

Guess why Emacs is so large :)

-- 
 /\   ___Ubuntu: ancient
/___/\_|_|\_|__|___Gian Uberto Lauri_   African word
  //--\| | \|  |   Integralista GNUslamicomeaning "I can
\/ coltivatore diretto di software   not install
 già sistemista a tempo (altrui) perso...Debian"

Warning: gnome-config-daemon considered more dangerous than GOTO


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/21455.56459.953.614...@mail.eng.it

/var partition seems locked or read only

[berenger . morel]

Hello.

On a distant Debian testing/unstable, it seems that the /var partition 
can no longer be written: even "# touch /var/test" returns a message 
saying that there is no space on the drive, which is something that "# 
df -h" deny:


# df -h
Sys. de fichiers Taille Utilisé Dispo Uti% Monté sur
/dev/sda3  9,1G954M  7,7G  11% /
udev10M   0   10M   0% /dev
tmpfs  397M384K  396M   1% /run
tmpfs  5,0M   0  5,0M   0% /run/lock
tmpfs  2,7G   0  2,7G   0% /run/shm
/dev/sda2  4,4G 27M  4,4G   1% /boot
/dev/sda5   38G 22G   16G  58% /home
/dev/sda7  447M 17K  423M   1% /tmp
/dev/sda6   14G2,7G  8,7G  24% /var

So, I am guessing that something is locking the partition, but I have 
no idea about *what* could do that. I tried disabling as many daemons 
that I can, so that "# service --status-all |grep '+'" returns this:


# service --status-all |grep '+'
 [ ? ]  bootmisc.sh
 [ ? ]  checkfs.sh
 [ ? ]  checkroot-bootclean.sh
 [ ? ]  hwclock.sh
 [ ? ]  ircd-irc2
 [ ? ]  killprocs
 [ ? ]  kmod
 [ ? ]  mountall-bootclean.sh
 [ ? ]  mountall.sh
 [ ? ]  mountdevsubfs.sh
 [ ? ]  mountkernfs.sh
 [ ? ]  mountnfs-bootclean.sh
 [ ? ]  mountnfs.sh
 [ ? ]  networking
 [ ? ]  rc.local
 [ + ]  rsyslog
 [ ? ]  sendsigs
 [ + ]  ssh
 [ + ]  udev
 [ ? ]  udev-finish
 [ ? ]  umountfs
 [ ? ]  umountnfs.sh
 [ ? ]  umountroot

but it changes nothing. Any idea/supposition/whatever?

Some other informations which might help:
The problem started with a network failure, which avoided aptitude to 
download, and so update, some packages, and now some packages are broken 
(but dpkg was not concerned by the update). If I can still trust 
/var/lib/dpkg/status, it seems that the most important breakage may come 
from libasan0 (Status: install reinstreq half-configured) which is 
needed by libgcc-4.8-dev, itself needed by linux-headers, so I do not 
think it is the source of the problem, but... maybe?


According to /etc/mtab, the var partition is mounted as rw: "/dev/sda6 
/var ext4 rw,nodev,noatime,data=ordered 0 0".



--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/7f12506048900c32e68a8101a741f...@neutralite.org

Re: Copy machine?

[berenger . morel]

Le 21.07.2014 18:58, Chris a écrit :

Dear Steve,

On 07/18/2014 09:37 PM, Steve Kemp wrote:

  This is pretty much it.  I've migrated from Xen, and KVM, to real
 physical machines.


I'm using VirtualBox. The guest has no special kernel.


  If you perform the fixups it should work.  Off the top of my head
 the changes you'll need to make include:

  Fixing /etc/fstab to refer to the new disks, rather than /dev/vda, 
etc.


There were UUIDs, I've replaced them with /dev/sda1 and so on.


  Fixing grub for the same reason.


I did this and the Ubuntu guest is booting on the physical machine. X 
is

starting.

  Installing a suitable kernel and modules, since a Xen kernel won't 
work, etc.


I think the kernel should be okay.


  Ensuring /dev is fully populated, or using udev.


How do I have to do this? I've just copied /dev with rsync without 
any

special parameters. Later I tried to copy /dev without the rsync
--delete option, but it didn't work.

  Finally updating the initrd image is pretty much mandatory when 
you

 make these kind of changes.


I called update-initramfs on the physical machine, but it still 
doesn't

work.

Is there any program on Debian or Ubuntu that is looking for new
hardware and loading the drivers required?

Why is the network card driver not loaded, although the card is shown 
in

lspci?


Could it be because of the MAC address? (yeah, probably a stupid idea, 
but...)




--
Christian



--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/d90811ced34090ddaab5c947e8c0a...@neutralite.org

Re: /var partition seems locked or read only

[Hans]

Maybe you might want to boot a livefile system (i.e. debian live, or Knoppix). 
Then you can mount the partition(s) and check configurations and other things.

Good luck!

Hans


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1721003.EP3hcgmTW9@protheus2

Re: NetworkManager/OpenConnect broken on jessie?

[Dominique Dumont]

On Thursday 17 July 2014 14:55:19 Mike Kupfer wrote:
> Any suggestions for what I should do next?

I've used openconnect today on sid through network-manager and kde without 
problem. You may need to update (again) your system.

HTH


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1595973.QePIVM4bnf@gandalf

Re: /var partition seems locked or read only

[der.hans]

Am 23. Jul, 2014 schwätzte berenger.mo...@neutralite.org so:

moin moin,

does /proc/mounts show /var/ as still being mounted rw?

Do you have large open files that have been removed? The filesystem will
show those as free space, but until the proceses holding the files open
have been stopped the disk space has not been freed.

If you had an aptitude run have problems check for old aptitude and dpkg
processes.

When aptitude has trouble downloading packages it should not try to
install them until they've been downloaded properly. Back in the day, I
would start an apt-get download and let it run all night on the modem
connection, then kill it in the morning. Then I would start it again the
next night and so on until all of the packages had downloaded properly.

Running out of space during package install can cause problems.

ciao,

der.hans


Hello.

On a distant Debian testing/unstable, it seems that the /var partition can no 
longer be written: even "# touch /var/test" returns a message saying that 
there is no space on the drive, which is something that "# df -h" deny:


# df -h
Sys. de fichiers Taille Utilisé Dispo Uti% Monté sur
/dev/sda3  9,1G954M  7,7G  11% /
udev10M   0   10M   0% /dev
tmpfs  397M384K  396M   1% /run
tmpfs  5,0M   0  5,0M   0% /run/lock
tmpfs  2,7G   0  2,7G   0% /run/shm
/dev/sda2  4,4G 27M  4,4G   1% /boot
/dev/sda5   38G 22G   16G  58% /home
/dev/sda7  447M 17K  423M   1% /tmp
/dev/sda6   14G2,7G  8,7G  24% /var

So, I am guessing that something is locking the partition, but I have no idea 
about *what* could do that. I tried disabling as many daemons that I can, so 
that "# service --status-all |grep '+'" returns this:


# service --status-all |grep '+'
[ ? ]  bootmisc.sh
[ ? ]  checkfs.sh
[ ? ]  checkroot-bootclean.sh
[ ? ]  hwclock.sh
[ ? ]  ircd-irc2
[ ? ]  killprocs
[ ? ]  kmod
[ ? ]  mountall-bootclean.sh
[ ? ]  mountall.sh
[ ? ]  mountdevsubfs.sh
[ ? ]  mountkernfs.sh
[ ? ]  mountnfs-bootclean.sh
[ ? ]  mountnfs.sh
[ ? ]  networking
[ ? ]  rc.local
[ + ]  rsyslog
[ ? ]  sendsigs
[ + ]  ssh
[ + ]  udev
[ ? ]  udev-finish
[ ? ]  umountfs
[ ? ]  umountnfs.sh
[ ? ]  umountroot

but it changes nothing. Any idea/supposition/whatever?

Some other informations which might help:
The problem started with a network failure, which avoided aptitude to 
download, and so update, some packages, and now some packages are broken (but 
dpkg was not concerned by the update). If I can still trust 
/var/lib/dpkg/status, it seems that the most important breakage may come from 
libasan0 (Status: install reinstreq half-configured) which is needed by 
libgcc-4.8-dev, itself needed by linux-headers, so I do not think it is the 
source of the problem, but... maybe?


According to /etc/mtab, the var partition is mounted as rw: "/dev/sda6 /var 
ext4 rw,nodev,noatime,data=ordered 0 0".



--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/7f12506048900c32e68a8101a741f...@neutralite.org




--
#  http://www.LuftHans.com/http://www.LuftHans.com/Classes/
#  Magic is science unexplained. - der.hans

Re: missing LSB tags and overrides

[Florent Bories]

Hi,

http://help.directadmin.com/item.php?id=379

Regards,
Florent
Le 23 juil. 2014 09:41, "Tony van der Hoff"  a écrit :

> Any suggestions on how to fix this please?
>
>
> insserv: warning: script 'K01kerneld' missing LSB tags and overrides
> insserv: warning: script 'K01apache' missing LSB tags and overrides
> insserv: warning: script 'S15modutils' missing LSB tags and overrides
> insserv: warning: script 'S15libdevmapper1.02' missing LSB tags and
> overrides
> insserv: warning: script 'S15xfree86-common' missing LSB tags and overrides
> insserv: warning: script 'xfree86-common' missing LSB tags and overrides
> insserv: warning: script 'libdevmapper1.02' missing LSB tags and overrides
> insserv: warning: script 'modutils' missing LSB tags and overrides
> insserv: warning: script 'iptables' missing LSB tags and overrides
> insserv: warning: script 'kerneld' missing LSB tags and overrides
> insserv: warning: script 'apache' missing LSB tags and overrides
>
> --
> Tony van der Hoff  | mailto:t...@vanderhoff.org
> Ariège, France |
>
>
> --
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact
> listmas...@lists.debian.org
> Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53cf6714.9090...@vanderhoff.org
>
>

Re: /var partition seems locked or read only

[Eduardo M KALINOWSKI]

On Qua, 23 Jul 2014, berenger.morel wrote:
On a distant Debian testing/unstable, it seems that the /var  
partition can no longer be written: even "# touch /var/test" returns  
a message saying that there is no space on the drive, which is  
something that "# df -h" deny:


Check df -i also.



--
Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
edua...@kalinowski.com.br



--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/20140723170622.horde.9nxsf1zknmzd_rotnr5p...@mail.kalinowski.com.br

Re: /var partition seems locked or read only

[Vincent Zweije]

On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 09:59:26AM -0700, der.hans wrote:

||  Am 23. Jul, 2014 schwätzte berenger.mo...@neutralite.org so:
||  
||  moin moin,
||  
||  does /proc/mounts show /var/ as still being mounted rw?

That would cause EROFS (Read-only file system), not ENOSPC (No space
left on device).

||  Do you have large open files that have been removed? The filesystem will
||  show those as free space, but until the proceses holding the files open
||  have been stopped the disk space has not been freed.

This looks most probable to me. Try this:

lsof | grep 'DEL.*var'

It will show you processes that have deleted files still open. Your
multi-gigabyte file in /var should be among them. Killing that process
reclaims the disk space.

||  >On a distant Debian testing/unstable, it seems that the /var
||  >partition can no longer be written: even "# touch /var/test"
||  >returns a message saying that there is no space on the drive,
||  >which is something that "# df -h" deny:

Ciao.
Vincent.
-- 
Vincent Zweije| "If you're flamed in a group you
  | don't read, does anybody get burnt?"
[Xhost should be taken out and shot] |-- Paul Tomblin on a.s.r.


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: wireless routing broken after recent sid update

[Paul Scott]

On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 09:28:41AM +0200, Pascal Hambourg wrote:
> Paul Scott a écrit :
> > On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 08:36:04PM +0200, Pascal Hambourg wrote:
> >>>
> >>> route gives me:
> >>>
> >>> Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric RefUse 
> >>> Iface
> >>> default *   0.0.0.0 U 1002   00 
> >>> eth0
> >> You have a bogus default route on eth0. It has a lower metric (higher
> >> priority) than the one on wlan0 and basically says that the whole
> >> internet address space is on the LAN connected to eth0.
> >> Get rid of it.
> > 
> > This is generated automatically by the system (network-manager, 
> > or network-manager-gnome).  Do you know where this happens?
> 
> No. But hey, this is sid.
> As a workaround until an update fixes the bug, I guess you can manually
> disable the wired ethernet interface in NetworkManager when you don't
> use it.

Do mean in /etc/network/interfaces?
It is disabled there now.

Interestly I just booted Linux to find wireless not routing to the Internet.
I then booted to Windows.  When I booted back to Linux wireless routing 
was working correctly.

Paul



-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140723173002.GB3071@joyhome

Re: missing LSB tags and overrides

[Sven Hartge]

Florent Bories  wrote:

> http://help.directadmin.com/item.php?id=379

No. Don't remove insserv. Unless you want to deliberately wreck your
system. Removing insserv is like shooting a person in the head to cure an
itch in the foot.

The correct answer was already given: purge any left over conf-files.

You can do this en masse by using "aptitude purge ~c". The selector "~c"
matches any package which has been removed but not purged.

Then check if you or third-party software added an init-script and add
the needed LSB headers yourself.

Grüße,
Sven.

-- 
Sigmentation fault. Core dumped.


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/0arrgajof...@mids.svenhartge.de

Re: I'm not a huge fan of systemd

[Erwan David]

Le 22/07/2014 17:56, Erwan David a écrit :
> On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 05:25:22PM CEST, Don Armstrong  said:
>> On Mon, 21 Jul 2014, Erwan David wrote:
>>> I lokked at it. I do not know how to remove this quiet on command line
>>> which seems to have appeared. Did systemd change grub configuration ?
>>> Or did rather change grub semantics ?
>> It's the default in Debian. Edit /etc/default/grub and remove quiet from
>> GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT.
>>
> Fine, Ill test this (and systemd.show_status) at next boot.
>
>

Ok quiet + systemd.show_status=false works. Now I'll juste have to
investigate the "FAILED" I see...


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53cff0b0.8040...@rail.eu.org

Re: FWIW: script vs. configurtion file

[Chris Bannister]

On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 08:39:26PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> On 7/23/14, Joel Rees  wrote:
> > I suppose I'll get complaints about this being off-topic, but perhaps we
> > can expose a disagreement on terminology without the clutter and heat of
> > the discussion in  which it came up.
> 
> Not offtopic at all, since some (heated, or protracted)
> discussions, drag out due to the lack of shared terminology/
> shared understanding of concepts being discussed.

I know you are just stiring but it *is* off-topic according to the list
charter.

-- 
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing." --- Malcolm X


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140723181413.GG24255@tal

Re: missing LSB tags and overrides

[Chris Bannister]

On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 09:41:08AM +0200, Tony van der Hoff wrote:
> Any suggestions on how to fix this please?
> 
> 
> insserv: warning: script 'K01kerneld' missing LSB tags and overrides
> insserv: warning: script 'K01apache' missing LSB tags and overrides
> insserv: warning: script 'S15modutils' missing LSB tags and overrides
> insserv: warning: script 'S15libdevmapper1.02' missing LSB tags and
> overrides
> insserv: warning: script 'S15xfree86-common' missing LSB tags and overrides
> insserv: warning: script 'xfree86-common' missing LSB tags and overrides
> insserv: warning: script 'libdevmapper1.02' missing LSB tags and overrides
> insserv: warning: script 'modutils' missing LSB tags and overrides
> insserv: warning: script 'iptables' missing LSB tags and overrides
> insserv: warning: script 'kerneld' missing LSB tags and overrides
> insserv: warning: script 'apache' missing LSB tags and overrides

Add quiet to the kernel command line.
(They are only warnings, not errors.)

-- 
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing." --- Malcolm X


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140723182251.GH24255@tal

Re: missing LSB tags and overrides

[Florent Bories]

Le 23 juil. 2014 19:34, "Sven Hartge"  a écrit :
>
> Florent Bories  wrote:
>
> > http://help.directadmin.com/item.php?id=379
>
> No. Don't remove insserv. Unless you want to deliberately wreck your
> system. Removing insserv is like shooting a person in the head to cure an
> itch in the foot.
>
> The correct answer was already given: purge any left over conf-files.
>
> You can do this en masse by using "aptitude purge ~c". The selector "~c"
> matches any package which has been removed but not purged.
>
> Then check if you or third-party software added an init-script and add
> the needed LSB headers yourself.
>
> Grüße,
> Sven.

Thanks for the precision and sorry for the wrong and late answer (my
mailclient was not correctly synchronized... and I read too quickly my link
apparently)

Best regards,
Florent

Re: testing-dedicated ML? ( was Re: End of hypocrisy ? )

[Bret Busby]

On 21/07/2014, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org
 wrote:
>
>
> Le 21.07.2014 15:31, Slavko a écrit :
>> Ahoj,
>>
>> it seems, that there can good idea to provide separate ML for testing
>> users.
>
> I agree, since testing is not for normal users (well... theoretically
> at least), so we could imagine that different MLs for (beta-)testing and
> productive usage (questions about "how to do..." and stable related bugs
> would go there, I guess).
> Now, I have no idea about the complexity of maintaining a new ML. Maybe
> there are also problems because some issues can not clearly affect only
> one of both testing and stable?
>
>

I would like to see a list for each of:
experimental
unstable
testing
stable (by version number, eg, at present, 7)
oldstable (by version number, eg, at present, 6)
obsolete (versions previous to oldstable)
hybrid - combinations of the above, eg, where people mix stable and testing, etc

I believe that it would be helpful, and, would provide for most
scenario's, and, when a new release occurs (eg, for Debian 8), the
archives get each moved into the lower level archive, so the oldstable
archive goes into the obsolete, the stable archive goes into the
oldstable, and the testing archive goes into the stabl;e achive.

Or, the top three;
experimental
unstable
testing
then by version number;
7
6
5
4
3.1
3

That might make for more lists, but it could be workable, and, more useful.


-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
 Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
 "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
 A Trilogy In Four Parts",
 written by Douglas Adams,
 published by Pan Books, 1992




--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/cacx6j8pq82cc9o066rnak+nvudtoaprxf64tzjfcyw2z+5i...@mail.gmail.com

Re: Iceape and Debian 7.x

[Richard Owlett]

Bret Busby wrote:

On Wed, 23 Jul 2014, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:



On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 11:58:44AM +0800, Bret Busby wrote:

Hello.

Is a .deb package of iceape or seamonky, available for Debian
7.x (amd64)?

I have not been able to find one.

Thank you in anticipation.



I'm fairly sure the whole package was removed as no longer
supported upstream.

Checking the package tracking ssytem, looks as if it was
removed in February 2014

https://packages.qa.debian.org/iceape.html

[Found by Googling "Debian iceape removal" ]

Al the best,

AndyC




Thank you for that.

It sounds like the Zeroth Law Of Thermodynamics, if I remember it
correctly.

Looks like I'll have to try to install Seamonkey using the
tarball method, which used to cause problems, when it was the
Netscape suite.



CAVEAT LECTOR:
  I'm a newbie who hasn't yet worried about details of internet 
issues.

  I do not see me using other than Seamonkey (or 'clone' thereof)

This morning when I saw your post, I did a preliminary cursory 
search for "seamonkey deb download" [WO quotes].

I got many hits to Ubuntu related sites.

Which set of problems would be easier to deal with:
  1. mixed Debian and Ubuntu repositories
  2. Seamonkey's generic Linux solution

I suspect the answer depends HEAVILY on which type of problem you 
are used to dealing with.


P.S. #1 I've observed two things
a. A philosophical difference resulted in Debian not 
having permission to

   use label "Seamonkey"
b. Underlying cause of Ice*** being removed - lack of 
volunteers
 #2 Asking related questions on mozilla.support.seamonkey 
[server news.mozilla.org]
 #3 I suspect my eventual response will be use generic Linux 
version of Seamonkey







--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53d008e2.4070...@cloud85.net

Re: FWIW: script vs. configurtion file

[Steve Litt]

On Thu, 24 Jul 2014 06:14:13 +1200
Chris Bannister  wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 08:39:26PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> > On 7/23/14, Joel Rees  wrote:
> > > I suppose I'll get complaints about this being off-topic, but
> > > perhaps we can expose a disagreement on terminology without the
> > > clutter and heat of the discussion in  which it came up.
> > 
> > Not offtopic at all, since some (heated, or protracted)
> > discussions, drag out due to the lack of shared terminology/
> > shared understanding of concepts being discussed.
> 
> I know you are just stiring but it *is* off-topic according to the
> list charter.

Where does one see the list charter? Neither googling
"debian-user"+"mailing list"+charter nore  "debian-user"+"mailing
list"+rules nor a search on the debian.org site itself nor just general
searching came up with it within the top 20 results. 

http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct is an excellent
guideline for everyone using the Internet, but it doesn't address what
is and is not on topic on Debian-User.

https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ doesn't say what's ontopic, it
merely says high volume, unmoderated (I would never have guessed).

An easily findable charter for this list would be an excellent
resource, and might stop many meta-arguments in their tracks. But I
can't find it. Maybe I'm just not good at searching, but I couldn't
find it.

SteveT



-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140723154700.0ab04a28@mylap4

Re: Iceape and Debian 7.x

[Bret Busby]

On 24/07/2014, Richard Owlett  wrote:
> Bret Busby wrote:
>> On Wed, 23 Jul 2014, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 11:58:44AM +0800, Bret Busby wrote:
 Hello.

 Is a .deb package of iceape or seamonky, available for Debian
 7.x (amd64)?

 I have not been able to find one.

 Thank you in anticipation.

>>>
>>> I'm fairly sure the whole package was removed as no longer
>>> supported upstream.
>>>
>>> Checking the package tracking ssytem, looks as if it was
>>> removed in February 2014
>>>
>>> https://packages.qa.debian.org/iceape.html
>>>
>>> [Found by Googling "Debian iceape removal" ]
>>>
>>> Al the best,
>>>
>>> AndyC
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Thank you for that.
>>
>> It sounds like the Zeroth Law Of Thermodynamics, if I remember it
>> correctly.
>>
>> Looks like I'll have to try to install Seamonkey using the
>> tarball method, which used to cause problems, when it was the
>> Netscape suite.
>>
>
> CAVEAT LECTOR:
>I'm a newbie who hasn't yet worried about details of internet
> issues.
>I do not see me using other than Seamonkey (or 'clone' thereof)
>
> This morning when I saw your post, I did a preliminary cursory
> search for "seamonkey deb download" [WO quotes].
> I got many hits to Ubuntu related sites.
>
> Which set of problems would be easier to deal with:
>1. mixed Debian and Ubuntu repositories
>2. Seamonkey's generic Linux solution
>
> I suspect the answer depends HEAVILY on which type of problem you
> are used to dealing with.
>
> P.S. #1 I've observed two things
>  a. A philosophical difference resulted in Debian not
> having permission to
> use label "Seamonkey"
>  b. Underlying cause of Ice*** being removed - lack of
> volunteers
>   #2 Asking related questions on mozilla.support.seamonkey
> [server news.mozilla.org]
>   #3 I suspect my eventual response will be use generic Linux
> version of Seamonkey
>
>


The problems that I encountered, many years ago, now, were with the
using of the tarball system. With updates and the way that it was
handled, I ended up with something like 7-10 layers of directories and
subdirectories, as each update had to be put in a new subdirectory,
and it got very messy.

That was before I encountered the package management system, and,
simply installing and upgrading, using iceape (and, I also had
iceweasel, installed) .deb files and Debian package management (I
generally use(d) Synaptic), which made it all much simpler and
cleaner.

Whilst I have iceape installed on this Debian 6 workstation, I am
progressively trying to build the Debian 7.5 system, and I doubt that
the iceape version for Debian 6, would install and run on Debian 7.x.

-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
 Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
 "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
 A Trilogy In Four Parts",
 written by Douglas Adams,
 published by Pan Books, 1992




-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/CACX6j8M5_pP4wnnTuPPSiYezoAk5ijt39NN3vMgZU8_viZ=t...@mail.gmail.com

Re: Iceape and Debian 7.x

[Bret Busby]

On 24/07/2014, Richard Owlett  wrote:


>
> CAVEAT LECTOR:

I didn't get to learn Latin very well, but that seems like "Let
Hannibal beware".

:)

-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
 Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
 "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
 A Trilogy In Four Parts",
 written by Douglas Adams,
 published by Pan Books, 1992




-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/cacx6j8mxpacndw1dbncwu7dcj_estjxov8zqcd6bn-kkayi...@mail.gmail.com

Re: Iceape and Debian 7.x

[Bret Busby]

On 24/07/2014, Bret Busby  wrote:
> On 24/07/2014, Richard Owlett  wrote:
>
>
>>
>> CAVEAT LECTOR:
>
> I didn't get to learn Latin very well, but that seems like "Let
> Hannibal beware".
>
> :)
>

And thence, I think that I may have worked out what it means.
"Tread carefully (watch where you put your feet), and carry a big shovel"...

:)

-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
 Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
 "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
 A Trilogy In Four Parts",
 written by Douglas Adams,
 published by Pan Books, 1992




-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/CACX6j8M_ObpZ94962GpGELXdgjgs=oibqrs7nvq4gejxs8l...@mail.gmail.com

Re: Iceape and Debian 7.x

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 02:11:30PM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
> 
> CAVEAT LECTOR:
>   I'm a newbie who hasn't yet worried about details of internet
> issues.
>   I do not see me using other than Seamonkey (or 'clone' thereof)
> 
> This morning when I saw your post, I did a preliminary cursory
> search for "seamonkey deb download" [WO quotes].
> I got many hits to Ubuntu related sites.
> 

Debian and Ubuntu have many similarities and some differences.
Occasionally, Ubuntu will package things that Debian won't - subtle
differences in approach and focus.


> Which set of problems would be easier to deal with:
>   1. mixed Debian and Ubuntu repositories

Don't do this: ever, ever, ever. It's really painful to sort out
conflicting packages, library versions, dependencies and the 
technical difficulties of supporting this mean that both 
communities may have great difficulty in understanding what to do.


>   2. Seamonkey's generic Linux solution
> 

This may be 32 bit only: I note that the amd64 bit version is an
"unofficial" contributed  build.

> I suspect the answer depends HEAVILY on which type of problem you
> are used to dealing with.
> 
> P.S. #1 I've observed two things
> a. A philosophical difference resulted in Debian not having
> permission to
>use label "Seamonkey"

No: it's a trademark issue, just as it is with Firefox. At one point,
Mozilla gave permission for Debian to distribute modified and patched
versions and versions for other architectures as Firefox. 

That permission was removed so Debian and others chose to 
rename their codebase to avoid questions of who should shoulder support.

> b. Underlying cause of Ice*** being removed - lack of
> volunteers

Also lack of users which meant that there weren't enough users to justify
scarce support resources in the face of security issues with the upstream
code.

>  #2 Asking related questions on mozilla.support.seamonkey
> [server news.mozilla.org]

You will get support for Mozilla's Seamonkey there.

>  #3 I suspect my eventual response will be use generic Linux
> version of Seamonkey
> 

Iceape is integrated: it may also be useful to use the single purpose 
applications
if these help.

> 

All the best,

AndyC

> 
> 
> -- 
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a
> subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact
> listmas...@lists.debian.org
> Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53d008e2.4070...@cloud85.net


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140723202907.ga5...@galactic.demon.co.uk

exact name of headers for 3.14-1-486

[Harry Putnam]

Sorry if my subject sounds a little pompous but I keep hitting this
warning when trying to install vbox guest addtitions where is says it
cannot find the headers for my running kernel.

It's a little exasperating because when I first saw that I installed a
bunch of header from a pile of pkgs.

uname -r:

  3.14-1-486

aptitude search headers |grep ^i

 i   linux-headers-3.14-1-486- Header files for Linux 3.14-1-486
 
 i A linux-headers-3.14-1-686-pae- Header files for Linux 3.14-1-686-pae
 
 i   linux-headers-3.14-1-all-i386   - All header files for Linux 3.14 
(meta-pack
 i A linux-headers-3.14-1-amd64  - Header files for Linux 3.14-1-amd64  
 
 i A linux-headers-3.14-1-common - Common header files for Linux 3.14-1 
 
 i A linux-headers-3.14-1-common-rt  - Common header files for Linux 3.14-1-rt  
 
 i A linux-headers-3.14-1-rt-686-pae - Header files for Linux 3.14-1-rt-686-pae 
 

Shouldn't it be the very first one on that list?

Any ideas why vbox continues to report not finding header files for my
running kernel?




-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/87d2cvu81c@reader.local.lan

Re: FWIW: script vs. configurtion file

[Curt]

On 2014-07-23, Steve Litt  wrote:
>
> Where does one see the list charter? Neither googling
> "debian-user"+"mailing list"+charter nore  "debian-user"+"mailing
> list"+rules nor a search on the debian.org site itself nor just general
> searching came up with it within the top 20 results. 
>

I was going to say that Bannister kept the charter under his bed in a locked
safe, or that it was preserved in the Louvre *in vitro* and you had to
stand in line for long hours in order to see the document, but then I told
myself: Curt, forget it, baby--not funny.

There is no "charter," Steve.

There is this:

https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#basics

And maybe more somewhere, more rules and regulations we can abuse and
break until we're banned like incurable lepers from the community.

I do notice that old Bannister never, ever complains about the html posters,
rather numerous in these parts, as I read this hard and fast rule in the
non-existant "charter":

 Never send your messages in HTML; use plain text instead.

Chacun voit midi à sa porte.

Shit.

System D.  Système D.  I just got it!


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/slrnlt0767.23s.cu...@einstein.electron.org

Re: Lost high res desktop settings on vbox upgrade to 4.3.14

[Harry Putnam]

Andreas Rönnquist  writes:

>>I upgraded vbox from 4.3.10 to 4.3 14.  Now the best screen res I can
>>get in 1024 x 768.   When it was something like 1500 x .  Not sure
>>of exact setting but desktop was much larger when I logged in before
>>this upgrade.
>>
>
> An ISO with guest additions is linked in the final post here:
>
> https://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=62629
>
> That solved the problem(s) for me.

Thanks for the clear input.

Downloaded and mounted and installed from that iso.

However, after a restart I still have no res choices other than
1024x768.

Maybe this is the reason:

When I do the install, I get a warning that the header files for my
running kernel were not found.

ASIDE showing installed kernel and installed header pkgs:
  NOTE: uname -r 
3.14-1-486

aptitude search headers |grep ^i

  i   linux-headers-3.14-1-486- Header files for Linux 3.14-1-486   
  
  i A linux-headers-3.14-1-686-pae- Header files for Linux 3.14-1-686-pae   
  
  i   linux-headers-3.14-1-all-i386   - All header files for Linux 3.14 
(meta-pack
  i A linux-headers-3.14-1-amd64  - Header files for Linux 3.14-1-amd64 
  
  i A linux-headers-3.14-1-common - Common header files for Linux 3.14-1
  
  i A linux-headers-3.14-1-common-rt  - Common header files for Linux 3.14-1-rt 
  
  i A linux-headers-3.14-1-rt-686-pae - Header files for Linux 
3.14-1-rt-686-pae  

(surely one of those installed pkgs has to be the right headers..You'd
think the very first one is itso why are they not found...)

The next steps are building the modules and near as I can tell it
succeeds:

here is the action: 

--- --- ---=--- --- --- 
 NOTE:
  Since I have already installed the iso you'll notice it remove that
  pkg and then re-installs it.

  There is some commentary about xorg driver not being installed that
  might also be why I'm not getting the result you did.

  There seems to be nothing mentioned to indicate any modules failed
  to build so perhaps the bit about the X.org drivers not being
  installed is the main culprit?
---   ---   ---=---   ---   --- 

  (I've marked out the pertinent parts with asterisks).

root # sh  VBoxLinuxAdditions.run 

Verifying archive integrity... All good.
Uncompressing VirtualBox 4.3.15 Guest Additions for Linux
VirtualBox Guest Additions installer
Removing installed version 4.3.15 of VirtualBox Guest Additions...
Copying additional installer modules ...
Installing additional modules ...
Removing existing VirtualBox non-DKMS kernel modules ...done.
Building the VirtualBox Guest Additions kernel modules

*
The headers for the current running kernel were not found. If the
following module compilation fails then this could be the reason.
*

Building the main Guest Additions module ...done.
Building the shared folder support module ...done.
Building the OpenGL support module ...done.
Doing non-kernel setup of the Guest Additions ...done.

You should restart your guest to make sure the new modules are
actually used

Installing the Window System drivers

***
Warning: unsupported pre-release version of X.Org Server installed.  Not
installing the X.Org drivers.
 ...done.
***

Installing graphics libraries and desktop services components ...done.


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/878unju6qg@reader.local.lan

Re: FWIW: script vs. configurtion file

[Lisi Reisz]

On Wednesday 23 July 2014 21:36:23 Curt wrote:
> And maybe more somewhere, more rules and regulations we can abuse and
> break until we're banned like incurable lepers from the community.

Maybe he is thinking of the DFSG?  Or the Social Contract?

Lisi


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201407232220.59791.lisi.re...@gmail.com

Re: wireless routing broken after recent sid update

[Pascal Hambourg]

Paul Scott a écrit :
> On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 09:28:41AM +0200, Pascal Hambourg wrote:
>> As a workaround until an update fixes the bug, I guess you can manually
>> disable the wired ethernet interface in NetworkManager when you don't
>> use it.
> 
> Do mean in /etc/network/interfaces?

No. I wrote "in NetworkManager". By default it only manages interfaces
not defined in /etc/network/interfaces.


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53d0249c.8030...@plouf.fr.eu.org

Re: Lost high res desktop settings on vbox upgrade to 4.3.14

[hdv@gmail]

On 2014-07-23 23:04, Harry Putnam wrote:
> Andreas Rönnquist  writes:
> 
>>> I upgraded vbox from 4.3.10 to 4.3 14.  Now the best screen res I can
>>> get in 1024 x 768.   When it was something like 1500 x .  Not sure
>>> of exact setting but desktop was much larger when I logged in before
>>> this upgrade.
>>>

Sorry, I am a bit late in the thread. So, maybe this has been suggested
already. If so, please ignore my message.

Did you notice that currently in Jessie there is a dependency problem
with VirtualBox? It needs a newer version of xorg-video-abi than is
currently available. It could be your problem is related to this.

Grx HdV



-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53d029f1.7040...@gmail.com

Re: Lost high res desktop settings on vbox upgrade to 4.3.14

[John Bleichert]

On 07/23/2014 05:32 PM, hdv@gmail wrote:

On 2014-07-23 23:04, Harry Putnam wrote:

Andreas Rönnquist  writes:


I upgraded vbox from 4.3.10 to 4.3 14.  Now the best screen res I can
get in 1024 x 768.   When it was something like 1500 x .  Not sure
of exact setting but desktop was much larger when I logged in before
this upgrade.



Sorry, I am a bit late in the thread. So, maybe this has been suggested
already. If so, please ignore my message.

Did you notice that currently in Jessie there is a dependency problem
with VirtualBox? It needs a newer version of xorg-video-abi than is
currently available. It could be your problem is related to this.

Grx HdV





Running VB 4.3.14 on Jessie here and I can get any resolution I want up 
to my LCD's full screen 1920x1080.  Depending on your resize settings 
the res's available in a "window" will be limited. Do these client 
limits still apply in full screen?


PS: I just noticed I haven't updated the client's tools yet.

FYI

--
---
John Bleichert-syb...@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53d02efc.1070...@earthlink.net

Is there a list 'charter' somewhere? (was ... Re: FWIW: script vs. configurtion file)

[Chris Bannister]

On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 03:47:00PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Jul 2014 06:14:13 +1200
> Chris Bannister  wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 08:39:26PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> > > On 7/23/14, Joel Rees  wrote:
> > > > I suppose I'll get complaints about this being off-topic, but
> > > > perhaps we can expose a disagreement on terminology without the
> > > > clutter and heat of the discussion in  which it came up.
> > > 
> > > Not offtopic at all, since some (heated, or protracted)
> > > discussions, drag out due to the lack of shared terminology/
> > > shared understanding of concepts being discussed.
> > 
> > I know you are just stiring but it *is* off-topic according to the
> > list charter.
> 
> Where does one see the list charter? Neither googling
> "debian-user"+"mailing list"+charter nore  "debian-user"+"mailing
> list"+rules nor a search on the debian.org site itself nor just general
> searching came up with it within the top 20 results. 

Oh. Ok, but I was using the same terms that Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
used when he talked about the debian-testing mailing list and how people
were wondering if that was the list to discuss testing issues from a
user perspective.

But the debian-user list is for Debian support, and discussing the
issues of scripting versus configuration is therefore off-topic, IMHO.

Maybe the CoC implicitly defines the list charter.

I'll take the risk and CC Henrique and Don since Don appears to 
be a listmaster see what they have to say.

-- 
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing." --- Malcolm X


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140723221800.GB31139@tal

Re: FWIW: script vs. configurtion file

[Steve Litt]

On Wed, 23 Jul 2014 22:20:59 +0100
Lisi Reisz  wrote:

> On Wednesday 23 July 2014 21:36:23 Curt wrote:
> > And maybe more somewhere, more rules and regulations we can abuse
> > and break until we're banned like incurable lepers from the
> > community.
> 
> Maybe he is thinking of the DFSG?  Or the Social Contract?
> 
> Lisi

Hi Lisi,

It couldn't be those, because those say nothing about what topics are
on or off topic on any list. So far the only specific I've seen was at
https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct :

==
The mailing lists exist to foster the development and use of Debian.
Non-constructive or off-topic messages, along with other abuses, are not 
welcome.
==

I think it's intuitively obvious to the most casual observer that a
discussion of the fins on Mopar products from the 1960's is offtopic
for Debian, but a discussion of how to write computer programs is
ontopic to many. Not an hour goes by when I don't use a program I've
written in order to do my job faster on Debian.

It's like this: I don't use RAID. I just back up, and if a disk goes
bad (once every 3 years) I just reinstall. I have no interest in RAID
related posts, but I don't call them offtopic, I just delete them. Many
people don't write their own programs. That doesn't make those who do
write their own programs, to help them function better with Linux,
offtopic.

At least that's how I see it.

SteveT


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140723182024.1553af0f@mylap4

Re: /var partition seems locked or read only

[Pascal Hambourg]

Vincent Zweije a écrit :
> On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 09:59:26AM -0700, der.hans wrote:
> 
>> Do you have large open files that have been removed? The filesystem will
>> show those as free space, but until the proceses holding the files open
>> have been stopped the disk space has not been freed.

du (which uses the directory tree) would not show the space allocated to
deleted-but-not-yet-closed files as used, but df would.

> This looks most probable to me. Try this:

Inode exhaustion (df -i) looks more probable to me.


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53d03158.2090...@plouf.fr.eu.org

Re: wireless routing broken after recent sid update

[Paul Scott]

On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 11:09:48PM +0200, Pascal Hambourg wrote:
> Paul Scott a écrit :
> > On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 09:28:41AM +0200, Pascal Hambourg wrote:
> >> As a workaround until an update fixes the bug, I guess you can manually
> >> disable the wired ethernet interface in NetworkManager when you don't
> >> use it.
> > 
> > Do mean in /etc/network/interfaces?
> 
> No. I wrote "in NetworkManager". By default it only manages interfaces
> not defined in /etc/network/interfaces.

Thank you.  That may have worked.  (I've only tried it once).

Paul



-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140723222852.GA5987@joyhome

Re: Is there a list 'charter' somewhere? (was ... Re: FWIW: script vs. configurtion file)

[Steve Litt]

On Thu, 24 Jul 2014 10:18:00 +1200
Chris Bannister  wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 03:47:00PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> > On Thu, 24 Jul 2014 06:14:13 +1200
> > Chris Bannister  wrote:
> > 
> > > On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 08:39:26PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> > > > On 7/23/14, Joel Rees  wrote:
> > > > > I suppose I'll get complaints about this being off-topic, but
> > > > > perhaps we can expose a disagreement on terminology without
> > > > > the clutter and heat of the discussion in  which it came up.
> > > > 
> > > > Not offtopic at all, since some (heated, or protracted)
> > > > discussions, drag out due to the lack of shared terminology/
> > > > shared understanding of concepts being discussed.
> > > 
> > > I know you are just stiring but it *is* off-topic according to the
> > > list charter.
> > 
> > Where does one see the list charter? Neither googling
> > "debian-user"+"mailing list"+charter nore  "debian-user"+"mailing
> > list"+rules nor a search on the debian.org site itself nor just
> > general searching came up with it within the top 20 results. 
> 
> Oh. Ok, but I was using the same terms that Henrique de Moraes
> Holschuh used when he talked about the debian-testing mailing list
> and how people were wondering if that was the list to discuss testing
> issues from a user perspective.
> 
> But the debian-user list is for Debian support, and discussing the
> issues of scripting versus configuration is therefore off-topic, IMHO.
> 
> Maybe the CoC implicitly defines the list charter.

In other words... 

In other words, I've just gone back to being 11 years old, when, at Boy
Scout camp, I was sent out into the woods on a "snipe hunt", or sent to
ask the other troop for a "left handed smoke bender".

:-)

Good one Chris!

:-)

SteveT


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140723183230.40011bdd@mylap4

Re: Is there a list 'charter' somewhere? (was ... Re: FWIW: script vs. configurtion file)

[Miles Fidelman]

Chris Bannister wrote:


But the debian-user list is for Debian support, and discussing the
issues of scripting versus configuration is therefore off-topic, IMHO.


Ummm, according to https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/  this list is 
for "Help and discussion among users of Debian."


Under that definition, pretty much any topic is on-topic, as long as 
we're all "users of Debian."  But if we want to keep it to topics that 
are at least loosely related to Debian - "scripting vs. configuration" 
as it relates to configuration files/approaches for Debian systems would 
seem to be very much on topic.  IMHO


Miles Fidelman

--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.    Yogi Berra


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53d03b77.2090...@meetinghouse.net

Re: FWIW: script vs. configurtion file

[Charlie]

On Wed, 23 Jul 2014 18:20:24 -0400 Steve Litt sent:

> On Wed, 23 Jul 2014 22:20:59 +0100
> Lisi Reisz  wrote:
> 
> > On Wednesday 23 July 2014 21:36:23 Curt wrote:
> > > And maybe more somewhere, more rules and regulations we can abuse
> > > and break until we're banned like incurable lepers from the
> > > community.
> > 
> > Maybe he is thinking of the DFSG?  Or the Social Contract?
> > 
> > Lisi
> 
> Hi Lisi,
> 
> It couldn't be those, because those say nothing about what topics are
> on or off topic on any list. So far the only specific I've seen was at
> https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct :
> 
> ==
> The mailing lists exist to foster the development and use of Debian.
> Non-constructive or off-topic messages, along with other abuses, are
> not welcome.
> ==
> 
> I think it's intuitively obvious to the most casual observer that a
> discussion of the fins on Mopar products from the 1960's is offtopic
> for Debian, but a discussion of how to write computer programs is
> ontopic to many. Not an hour goes by when I don't use a program I've
> written in order to do my job faster on Debian.
> 
> It's like this: I don't use RAID. I just back up, and if a disk goes
> bad (once every 3 years) I just reinstall. I have no interest in RAID
> related posts, but I don't call them offtopic, I just delete them.
> Many people don't write their own programs. That doesn't make those
> who do write their own programs, to help them function better with
> Linux, offtopic.
> 
> At least that's how I see it.
> 
> SteveT

I must say I agree, though I may be the only other person in the whole
world who thinks so.

Many of the topics on the list don't apply to me, or for that matter,
have little application to my needs. Probably because I am a simple man,
a peasanto, a man of the land.

However, they can still be of interest and sometimes those who expand
on a subject, which I could stand up and declare as off topic for me.
Lead to something that I can use or would like to try as they expand
with someone looking at them from another position and seeing them
differently.

So for me, everything that is used in Debian, and there is much; many
applications, scripts, normal and programming language and even
protracted discussion and quiet statement of opinion on these, has what
appears to my lateral thinking, a natural place on a Debian list.

It is not difficult to use the delete key after all.

Charlie
-- 
Registered Linux User:- 329524
***

Must be out-of-doors enough to get experience of wholesome
reality, as a ballast to thought and sentiment. Health requires
this relaxation, this aimless life. ..Henry David Thoreau

***

Debian GNU/Linux - just the best way to create magic

-


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140724084652.5f060624@taogypsy.wildlife

Re: Is there a list 'charter' somewhere? (was ... Re: FWIW: script vs. configurtion file)

[Don Armstrong]

On Thu, 24 Jul 2014, Chris Bannister wrote:
> Oh. Ok, but I was using the same terms that Henrique de Moraes
> Holschuh used when he talked about the debian-testing mailing list and
> how people were wondering if that was the list to discuss testing
> issues from a user perspective.

It's not for user support. debian-test...@lists.debian.org is for
finding problems with the installation and upgrade process and fixing
those problems.[1]

> But the debian-user list is for Debian support, and discussing the
> issues of scripting versus configuration is therefore off-topic, IMHO.

Unless it's directly related to Debian and the support of Debian, it
probably doesn't belong on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ for more information.

Of course, threads discussing whether a thread is off topic or not are
also not really on topic, so it's best to suggest that people take a
discussion to a more appropriate mailing list by e-mailing them
privately.

Every Debian mailing list has a description of its primary topic on
https://lists.debian.org.

> I'll take the risk and CC Henrique and Don since Don appears to 
> be a listmaster see what they have to say.

If you want to talk to the listmasters in the future, e-mailing
listmast...@lists.debian.org is the way to do so.

1: https://lists.debian.org/debian-testing/
-- 
Don Armstrong  http://www.donarmstrong.com

This can't be happening to me. I've got tenure.
 -- James Hynes _Publish and Perish_


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140723224736.gf7...@rzlab.ucr.edu

Re: Iceape and Debian 7.x

[Ken Heard]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

iceape browser is available in squeeze-backports, but not in wheezy or
jessie.  It is however available in sid; so it may in time be moved to
jessie.  Maybe the sid version may work in jessie now.

The squeeze-backports version of squeeze may work in wheezy; I haven't
tried it but intend to.

The only part of iceape I ever used was composer.  Is there an
equivalent to iceape composer available in wheezy, that is to say one
that is as simple to use as iceape composer?  I use it only to download
such things as newspaper articles I want to keep but need a simple
composer to do light editing on them.  I do not create complicated web
pages.

Ken


-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAlPQRPUACgkQlNlJzOkJmTdBFgCfZ1EitKkVDnm2c0p+9QdPIQ57
SqoAniVinb4F+0Y/s4XDBAkU7eSB7iPc
=wkD8
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53d044f5.6050...@teksavvy.com

Re: testing-dedicated ML? ( was Re: End of hypocrisy ? )

[Zenaan Harkness]

On 7/24/14, Bret Busby  wrote:
> On 21/07/2014, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org
>  wrote:
>>
>>
>> Le 21.07.2014 15:31, Slavko a écrit :
>>> Ahoj,
>>>
>>> it seems, that there can good idea to provide separate ML for testing
>>> users.
>>
>> I agree, since testing is not for normal users (well... theoretically
>> at least), so we could imagine that different MLs for (beta-)testing and
>> productive usage (questions about "how to do..." and stable related bugs
>> would go there, I guess).
>> Now, I have no idea about the complexity of maintaining a new ML. Maybe
>> there are also problems because some issues can not clearly affect only
>> one of both testing and stable?
>>
>>
>
> I would like to see a list for each of:
> experimental
> unstable
> testing
> stable (by version number, eg, at present, 7)
> oldstable (by version number, eg, at present, 6)
> obsolete (versions previous to oldstable)
> hybrid - combinations of the above, eg, where people mix stable and testing,
> etc
>
> I believe that it would be helpful, and, would provide for most
> scenario's, and, when a new release occurs (eg, for Debian 8), the
> archives get each moved into the lower level archive, so the oldstable
> archive goes into the obsolete, the stable archive goes into the
> oldstable, and the testing archive goes into the stabl;e achive.
>
> Or, the top three;
> experimental
> unstable
> testing
> then by version number;
> 7
> 6
> 5
> 4
> 3.1
> 3

No no, that's really impractical - the applications man,
the applications!

We need a list for each package! You can't ruly home in
on your questions of interest until you have dedicated
lists for each package.

Sometimes, those lists should have a repeater which
copies each message to a corresponding upstream list
(I'm thinking mutt for example, but I'm sure there's
others).

so mutt-debian-users@.., postgresql-debian-users@... etc.

There should probably be some combo lists but rather
than as you suggest for distro version, they should be
for combinations of packages.


> That might make for more lists, but it could be workable, and, more useful.

Should be enjoyed by many, and even _more_ useful ;)


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/caosgnssav1itbvdna0dpne8b61qkj55ab+nx9if43knhokb...@mail.gmail.com

Special hotkeys for Openbox and LXDE users

[Steve Litt]

Hi all,

I made a bunch of hotkeys for Openbox and LXDE (which uses Openbox) to
make it easier for this kind of person:

* Touch typist who keeps his hands at home position
* Keyboard centric where possible
* When a mouse is needed, uses a real mouse, not a touchpad
- Therefore a lot of the hotkeys involve only the left hand

http://a3b3.com/stuff/openbox_custom_keys.pdf

A little additional information:

* touchtoggle.sh turns a laptop mousepad on and off
* dmenu_slitt.sh runs dmenu however you like it
* root-menu is the Openbox menu, not the LXDE menu.
* runumenu.sh runs my homegrown UMENU program. Change to meet your
  needs.
* GoToDesktop up shows you your current desktop number
* S-C-l and S-C-h go desktop right and left, respectively, like Vim's l
  and r usage

The reason I use Shift+Ctrl combos so much is it's very easy to snake
your left hand around and down, press Ctrl with your pinky and Shift
with your ring finger, and then return to home typist position. It's
very fast.

By the way, you can implement these on almost any desktop environment
or window manager, but of course the config file won't be the same.

By the way, I forgot to put in the hotkey to toggle the focused
window's maximization:





Hope some of you enjoy it.

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140723200153.7a11e...@mydesq2.domain.cxm

Re: Iceape and Debian 7.x

[Richard Owlett]

Bret Busby wrote:

On 24/07/2014, Bret Busby  wrote:

On 24/07/2014, Richard Owlett  wrote:




CAVEAT LECTOR:


I didn't get to learn Latin very well, but that seems like "Let
Hannibal beware".

:)



And thence, I think that I may have worked out what it means.
"Tread carefully (watch where you put your feet), and carry a big shovel"...

:)



You have the idea ;}

"CAVEAT EMPTOR" translates as   "let the buyer beware"
"CAVEAT LECTOR" should translate as "let the reader beware"

modern vernacular might be YMMV ---> 'your mileage may vary"



--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53d051b4.7040...@cloud85.net

Re: Special hotkeys for Openbox and LXDE users

[Zenaan Harkness]

On 7/24/14, Steve Litt  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I made a bunch of hotkeys for Openbox and LXDE (which uses Openbox) to
> make it easier for this kind of person:
>
> * Touch typist who keeps his hands at home position
> * Keyboard centric where possible
> * When a mouse is needed, uses a real mouse, not a touchpad
>   - Therefore a lot of the hotkeys involve only the left hand

An empoyee of mine many years ago broke his right arm and was in
plaster for some weeks. Gutter jokes aside, he learned to use a mouse
with his left hand.

After the plaster came off, he continued to use his mouse left-handed.

I asked him one day why he didn't go back right handed mousing and he
said for him it was more efficient to use left hand, and right hand on
keyboard.

I was using one of the first logitech trackman marble trackballs,
which was right handed only, so requisitioned an ambidectrous logitech
trackman can't remember model sorry) when that came out, and started
using my left hand for trackballing (and mousing).

Sometimes I use right hand, but mostly left hand. It did take a week
or two to get really comfortable both sides.

Cheers
Zenaan


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/caosgnssd7nezmidfdnptwnmtyq1+n0a-bhtsgzjpaivuco3...@mail.gmail.com

Re: Lost high res desktop settings on vbox upgrade to 4.3.14

[Harry Putnam]

"hdv@gmail"  writes:

> On 2014-07-23 23:04, Harry Putnam wrote:
>> Andreas Rönnquist  writes:
>> 
 I upgraded vbox from 4.3.10 to 4.3 14.  Now the best screen res I can
 get in 1024 x 768.   When it was something like 1500 x .  Not sure
 of exact setting but desktop was much larger when I logged in before
 this upgrade.

>
> Sorry, I am a bit late in the thread. So, maybe this has been suggested
> already. If so, please ignore my message.
>
> Did you notice that currently in Jessie there is a dependency problem
> with VirtualBox? It needs a newer version of xorg-video-abi than is
> currently available. It could be your problem is related to this.

I'm a little denser than most would that still be a factor when
Vbox itself is running in win 7 ... jessie, in this case is the guest
on a windows host.

My lack of higher res, began when I updated to 4.3.12.  But I'm
wondering now if that was really the cause, or something else I did,
because going back to a previous version doesn't restore the res
either.

And now I've updated to 4.3.15 on someone's suggestion and that hasn't
corrected the res problem either.

Far, as I remember I didn't monkey around with any xorg type
settings. 

All that, not with standing, I did have 1500+ X  not so long ago,
in this same guest.  I've lost track of what version I was running
when I last had higher res, but I think it was 4.1.32. However
dropping back to that doesn't help now either.


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/87zjfzsdub@reader.local.lan

Re: Lost high res desktop settings on vbox upgrade to 4.3.14

[Harry Putnam]

John Bleichert  writes:

> On 07/23/2014 05:32 PM, hdv@gmail wrote:
>> On 2014-07-23 23:04, Harry Putnam wrote:
>>> Andreas Rönnquist  writes:
>>>
> I upgraded vbox from 4.3.10 to 4.3 14.  Now the best screen res I can
> get in 1024 x 768.   When it was something like 1500 x .  Not sure
> of exact setting but desktop was much larger when I logged in before
> this upgrade.
>
>>
>> Sorry, I am a bit late in the thread. So, maybe this has been suggested
>> already. If so, please ignore my message.
>>
>> Did you notice that currently in Jessie there is a dependency problem
>> with VirtualBox? It needs a newer version of xorg-video-abi than is
>> currently available. It could be your problem is related to this.
>>
>> Grx HdV
>>
>>
>>
>
> Running VB 4.3.14 on Jessie here and I can get any resolution I want
> up to my LCD's full screen 1920x1080.  Depending on your resize
> settings the res's available in a "window" will be limited. Do these
> client limits still apply in full screen?
>
> PS: I just noticed I haven't updated the client's tools yet.

I'm pretty sure I mentioned this somewhere along this thread but it
may have been lost sight of by now.

I'm running vbox in win7 not in debian.

My troubles are getting a higher res inside a vbox guest that is
running jessie, but jessie is guest on a windows 7 host.


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/87vbqnsdqn@reader.local.lan

Re: NetworkManager/OpenConnect broken on jessie?

[Mike Kupfer]

Dominique Dumont wrote:

> On Thursday 17 July 2014 14:55:19 Mike Kupfer wrote:
> > Any suggestions for what I should do next?
> 
> I've used openconnect today on sid through network-manager and kde without 
> problem. You may need to update (again) your system.

Yes, it started working again after a couple updates.  Thanks.

mike


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/16124.1406171630@allegro.localdomain

Re: testing-dedicated ML? ( was Re: End of hypocrisy ? )

[Bret Busby]

On 24/07/2014, Zenaan Harkness  wrote:
> On 7/24/14, Bret Busby  wrote:
>> On 21/07/2014, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 21.07.2014 15:31, Slavko a écrit :
 Ahoj,

 it seems, that there can good idea to provide separate ML for testing
 users.
>>>
>>> I agree, since testing is not for normal users (well... theoretically
>>> at least), so we could imagine that different MLs for (beta-)testing and
>>> productive usage (questions about "how to do..." and stable related bugs
>>> would go there, I guess).
>>> Now, I have no idea about the complexity of maintaining a new ML. Maybe
>>> there are also problems because some issues can not clearly affect only
>>> one of both testing and stable?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I would like to see a list for each of:
>> experimental
>> unstable
>> testing
>> stable (by version number, eg, at present, 7)
>> oldstable (by version number, eg, at present, 6)
>> obsolete (versions previous to oldstable)
>> hybrid - combinations of the above, eg, where people mix stable and
>> testing,
>> etc
>>
>> I believe that it would be helpful, and, would provide for most
>> scenario's, and, when a new release occurs (eg, for Debian 8), the
>> archives get each moved into the lower level archive, so the oldstable
>> archive goes into the obsolete, the stable archive goes into the
>> oldstable, and the testing archive goes into the stabl;e achive.
>>
>> Or, the top three;
>> experimental
>> unstable
>> testing
>> then by version number;
>> 7
>> 6
>> 5
>> 4
>> 3.1
>> 3
>
> No no, that's really impractical - the applications man,
> the applications!
>
> We need a list for each package! You can't ruly home in
> on your questions of interest until you have dedicated
> lists for each package.
>
> Sometimes, those lists should have a repeater which
> copies each message to a corresponding upstream list
> (I'm thinking mutt for example, but I'm sure there's
> others).
>
> so mutt-debian-users@.., postgresql-debian-users@... etc.
>

Well,   there are application lists.

PostgreSQL has its own lists, MySQL has its own lists, Fetchmail has
its own list, Posfix has its own list, Procmail has its own list,
alpine has its own list, GRAMPS has its own list, GnuCash has its own
list, as mentioned in another thread (the one about iceape), Seamonkey
has its own list, and, as the King (as played by Yul Brynner) said,
"etcetera, etcetera, etcetera".


-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
 Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
 "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
 A Trilogy In Four Parts",
 written by Douglas Adams,
 published by Pan Books, 1992




--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/cacx6j8oqq2b3dt-arff99g8cjl-hdup_w+fuc7dg4giodic...@mail.gmail.com

Re: Copy machine?

[Chris]

On 07/23/2014 06:42 PM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
> Could it be because of the MAC address? (yeah, probably a stupid idea, 
> but...)

The MAC address changed of course, but I haven't found it anywhere
hard-coded. There are some udev-rules on debian, but on ubuntu they were
empty.

-- 
Christian


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53d08003.9030...@arcor.de

Re: testing-dedicated ML? ( was Re: End of hypocrisy ? )

[Zenaan Harkness]

On 7/24/14, Bret Busby  wrote:
> On 24/07/2014, Zenaan Harkness  wrote:
>> On 7/24/14, Bret Busby  wrote:
>>> On 21/07/2014, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org
>>>  wrote:
 Le 21.07.2014 15:31, Slavko a écrit :
> Ahoj,
>
> it seems, that there can good idea to provide separate ML for testing
> users.

 I agree, since testing is not for normal users (well... theoretically
 at least), so we could imagine that different MLs for (beta-)testing
 and
 productive usage (questions about "how to do..." and stable related
 bugs
 would go there, I guess).
 Now, I have no idea about the complexity of maintaining a new ML. Maybe
 there are also problems because some issues can not clearly affect only
 one of both testing and stable?
>>>
>>> I would like to see a list for each of:
>>> experimental
>>> unstable
>>> testing
>>> stable (by version number, eg, at present, 7)
>>> oldstable (by version number, eg, at present, 6)
>>> obsolete (versions previous to oldstable)
>>> hybrid - combinations of the above, eg, where people mix stable and
>>> testing,
>>> etc
>>>
>>> I believe that it would be helpful, and, would provide for most
>>> scenario's, and, when a new release occurs (eg, for Debian 8), the
>>> archives get each moved into the lower level archive, so the oldstable
>>> archive goes into the obsolete, the stable archive goes into the
>>> oldstable, and the testing archive goes into the stabl;e achive.
>>>
>>> Or, the top three;
>>> experimental
>>> unstable
>>> testing
>>> then by version number;
>>> 7
>>> 6
>>> 5
>>> 4
>>> 3.1
>>> 3
>>
>> No no, that's really impractical - the applications man,
>> the applications!
>>
>> We need a list for each package! You can't ruly home in
>> on your questions of interest until you have dedicated
>> lists for each package.
>>
>> Sometimes, those lists should have a repeater which
>> copies each message to a corresponding upstream list
>> (I'm thinking mutt for example, but I'm sure there's
>> others).
>>
>> so mutt-debian-users@.., postgresql-debian-users@... etc.
>
> Well,   there are application lists.
>
> PostgreSQL has its own lists, MySQL has its own lists, Fetchmail has
> its own list, Posfix has its own list, Procmail has its own list,
> alpine has its own list, GRAMPS has its own list, GnuCash has its own
> list, as mentioned in another thread (the one about iceape), Seamonkey
> has its own list, and, as the King (as played by Yul Brynner) said,
> "etcetera, etcetera, etcetera".

There's a slashdot saying appropriate just here ...
not quite sure what that is, it's ...
going over my head right now.

;)


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/caosgnssxrryvkvthgcj1dj6ciiuz6xeoxyz9_mb7vsr-k...@mail.gmail.com

Re: Lost high res desktop settings on vbox upgrade to 4.3.14

[Yusaku OGAWA]

Harry Putnam  wrote:
> ***
> Warning: unsupported pre-release version of X.Org Server installed.  Not
> installing the X.Org drivers.
>  ...done.
> ***

Hi,

Did you upgrade X Server?

It seems that the X.Org Server version 1.*.99 installed on your jessie.

So I think, maybe you should re-execute VBoxLinuxAdditions.run script
after upgrade "xserver-xorg-core" package to latest version.

You can check your X Server's version.

  $ Xorg -version


Thanks,
Yusaku