Re: Partial success and strange partial failure -was [Re: Physically have install DVD set. Want ISO's from which they came.]
On 2 March 2014 18:54, David wrote: > On 2 March 2014 18:32, Scott Ferguson > wrote: >> >> For some reason your posts have broken threads and I can't find the >> first one. :/ > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2014/02/thrd3.html#01175 or https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2014/03/threads.html#00022 depending on which first one you wanted :) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAMPXz=rumpifkqnonumwpku_bvvuugzuqj9oddu7ivsgioj...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Partial success and strange partial failure -was [Re: Physically have install DVD set. Want ISO's from which they came.]
On 02/03/14 18:59, David wrote: > On 2 March 2014 18:54, David wrote: >> On 2 March 2014 18:32, Scott Ferguson >> wrote: >>> >>> For some reason your posts have broken threads and I can't find the >>> first one. :/ >> >> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2014/02/thrd3.html#01175 > > or > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2014/03/threads.html#00022 > > depending on which first one you wanted :) > > That there are multiple "first" threads is part of my problem. Maybe not the problem of others - I'm a bit thick. Thanks. Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5312ece3.6040...@gmail.com
Re: Partial success and strange partial failure -was [Re: Physically have install DVD set. Want ISO's from which they came.]
Hi, i am the developer of xorriso, which created the image in question under control of the debian-cd package. Debian i386 images are ISO 9660 filesystems with El Torito Boot Record to boot from CD/DVD/BD, and with Master Boot Record, which enables them to boot from hard disk and USB stick. If you put an ISO 9660 image onto the overall device file of an USB stick (e.g. /dev/sdb) then it should be mountable by the overall device file of the stick, too: dd if=debian-7.3.0-i386-netinst.iso of=/dev/sdb mkdir /mnt/my_debian_7_1 mount -t iso9660 /dev/sdb /mnt/my_debian_7_1 To then see all its files, do find /mnt/my_debian_7_1 Some technical background: El Torito and MBR are only present for pointing BIOS to the boot files which it shall execute to bring up an operating system. The MBR might have a confusing impact on programs which inspect devices and try to be smart. A program which simply complies to the specs of ISO 9660, El Torito, and MBR should have no problem. The El Torito stuff already was shown here by the output of isoinfo. The MBR can be made visible by a run of fdisk on the .iso file /sbin/fdisk -lu debian-7.3.0-i386-netinst.iso or if already on USB stick /dev/sdb, by /sbin/fdisk -lu /dev/sdb which should yield: Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System /dev/sdb1 * 64 567295 283616 17 Hidden HPFS/NTFS This means that there is a MBR partition 1 with some filesystem. (The System type is prescribed by the ISOLINUX project.) By a special preparation of the ISO image, it should be possible to mount it as superuser by the partition device file, too: mount -t iso9660 /dev/sdb1 /mnt/my_debian_7_1 The reason why both device files /dev/sdb and /dev/sdb1 work for mounting is that the ISO has two superblocks and directory trees. One pair ready for mounting from /dev/sdb and for mounting from CD/DVD/BD. The other pair is ready for mounting /dev/sdb1. For details see: http://libburnia-project.org/wiki/PartitionOffset Have a nice day :) Thomas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/14741666359821779...@scdbackup.webframe.org
Re: Test
On Sun, 2014-03-02 at 06:29 +, Tom Furie wrote: > On Sun, Mar 02, 2014 at 01:41:48AM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > > My apologies, I'm aware that no test mails should be send to the Debian > > user mailing list. If I reply (several times) I don't come through the > > list anymore. Some time ago I needed to reply 3 or 4 times and then one > > reply did came through the list. I wonder if mails will come through the > > list, when I don't reply, but send a new thread. > > > > This is an issue I've got with several mailing list when using Evolution > > MUA + using my Alice account. > > > > No postmaster messages, no error messages by the MUA :(. > > On further inspection, your first reply on that systemd thread arrived > here roughly fifteen minutes after you sent it, at about the same time > you were submitting your fourth attempt. > > Cheers, > Tom PS: I'll set up msmtp ASAP and then replace Evolutions SMTP thingy, to see if I get information about the issue. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1393751177.596.191.camel@archlinux
Re: Test
As much for other, future, "test" posters as for you. On 02/03/14 20:06, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Sun, 2014-03-02 at 06:29 +, Tom Furie wrote: >> On Sun, Mar 02, 2014 at 01:41:48AM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >> >>> My apologies, I'm aware that no test mails should be send to the Debian >>> user mailing list. If I reply (several times) I don't come through the >>> list anymore. Some time ago I needed to reply 3 or 4 times and then one >>> reply did came through the list. I wonder if mails will come through the >>> list, when I don't reply, but send a new thread. >>> >>> This is an issue I've got with several mailing list when using Evolution >>> MUA + using my Alice account. >>> >>> No postmaster messages, no error messages by the MUA :(. >> >> On further inspection, your first reply on that systemd thread arrived >> here roughly fifteen minutes after you sent it, at about the same time >> you were submitting your fourth attempt. >> >> Cheers, >> Tom > > PS: I'll set up msmtp ASAP and then replace Evolutions SMTP thingy, to > see if I get information about the issue. > > > Just a gentle suggestion Ralf, but maybe you could reduce your anxiety (and the noise) by posting once, and then if that post doesn't show on the web version of the list in 2 hours, post again. Note that messages to the list *may* not be echoed on the web version of the list at the same time - I'm not intimately familiar with the intricacies involved. Also consider that your ISP (like many) may be using a transparent cache, infrequently updated, to serve you pages from the web version of the list - so it may be that your post is seen by other subscribers, but not immediately published on the web version - and that what you see on the web version may not accurately reflect the current web version (if that makes sense). NOTE: the list does send a message back if your post is rejected for any reason - it should hit your email provider within minutes. If you want to "test" your MUA why not set up a free email account with some other provider and test post to it to diagnose problems with your MUA and email provider? Any problem with the list manager is likely to affect all posters, not just you, so if you can see the posts of other in the web version of the list yours should be there also. If your post is not there, and you've seen the imap/smtp connection in netstat --inet, then you can reasonably conclude (1x1 testing) that the problem lies with your email host. HTH. Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5312fbdd.9030...@gmail.com
French Guinea / Guiana (was: Four people decided the fate of debian with systemd. Bad faith likely)
Scott Ferguson a écrit : > > Even though the spooks do like the French Guinea TLD .gf is the ccTLD for French Guiana (Guyane française), a french department and region in South America. French Guinea was a french colony in West Africa until 1958, when Guinea became independent. Its ccTLD is .gn. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5312f849.4070...@plouf.fr.eu.org
Re: Partial success and strange partial failure -was [Re: Physically have install DVD set. Want ISO's from which they came.]
On Sb, 01 mar 14, 14:38:14, Richard Owlett wrote: > > root@minimal-squeeze:/home/richard# isoinfo -d -i /dev/cdrom ... > Volume size is: 1939608 > root@minimal-squeeze:/home/richard# dd if=/dev/cdrom bs=2048 > count=1939608 of=/home/richard/myiso1.iso conv=notrunc > 1939608+0 records in > 1939608+0 records out > 3972317184 bytes (4.0 GB) copied, 711.022 s, 5.6 MB/s Ok. Did you try to md5sum the image file? You can compare that to the md5sum of the DVD. > root@minimal-squeeze:/home/richard# dd if=/home/richard/myiso1.iso > bs=2048 count=1939608 of=/dev/sdb conv=notrunc > 1939608+0 records in > 1939608+0 records out > 3972317184 bytes (4.0 GB) copied, 1591.35 s, 2.5 MB/s Not sure if this makes a differences, but why the count= and conv= ? To keep things simple, could you please retry with cp /home/richard/myiso1.iso /dev/sdb Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Four people decided the fate of debian with systemd. Bad faith likely
Ahoj, Dňa Sun, 02 Mar 2014 01:44:00 +0100 Ralf Mardorf napísal: > On Sun, 2014-03-02 at 10:55 +1100, Scott Ferguson wrote: > > Here's mine:- > > troll elsewhere - try rabbleRus.org or LetMeTellUWhat2Do.mob > > :D > > We Arch users made a poll. Even if more users would have been against Ralph, i write this again to you: You, Arch users, please talk about Arch in Arch's MLs. Debian is not a full democratic organization (i am sorry, i don't know exact English terms for these things) - there are leaders, which are doing decisions. At some point there is needing for decisions, not matter, if users want they or not. You can disagree, you can make a protest, but it is all, that you can ;-) Of course, there is a freedom: you can try to go into leaders (and make better decisions in future), you can select another distro (and troll the Debian ML with your selection), or you can start the new one (there are plenty distros in the world, but only some are about 20 years old...) I personaly don't like the democratic system, where anybody participate on the decisions, because then the decisions are constituting by people, which don't know about it (don't understand the problem) too. I prefer system, where decision are made by people, which understand the problem in the depth, which have a lot of experiences and are able to see things from different point of view. Considering the aftereffects is needed too. I am working with AT computers from the DOS 3.3 time. Last (more than) 15 years i am doing it professionally, now i am administrator of the information system in one school. But my knowledge is not enough to say, that switching to the SystemD is good or not (IMO this will be known in near future). Then all what i can now is to believe, that the leaders know what they are doing. When i will lose this trust, then it will be time to go elsewhere (another/own distro). regards -- Slavko http://slavino.sk signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Test
On Sun, Mar 02, 2014 at 10:06:17AM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > PS: I'll set up msmtp ASAP and then replace Evolutions SMTP thingy, to > see if I get information about the issue. If you look at the headers on your posts (or anyone else's for that matter), you can track the progress from origin to destination. In this instance the messages were received by the Debian mail system almost immediately you sent them, they then came back out (in my case) fifteen minutes later. Other people may have received their copies earlier or later depending on several factors. Email is not a real-time communication system, sometimes there are delays, or even failures, at any step along the route. Cheers, Tom -- Two heads are better than one. -- John Heywood signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: French Guinea / Guiana
On 02/03/14 20:22, Pascal Hambourg wrote: > Scott Ferguson a écrit : >> >> Even though the spooks do like the French Guinea TLD > > .gf is the ccTLD for French Guiana (Guyane française), a french > department and region in South America. > > French Guinea was a french colony in West Africa until 1958, when Guinea > became independent. Its ccTLD is .gn. > > Thanks for correcting my mistake. (no sarcasm implied). .gn is completely different and your correction is more than appropriate. Just to be clear though - .gf is, apparently (how would I know?) is mainly used by the ESA, and SOA, now relaying much of the mail which used to originate from wonderland.mil (Maryland 11th PsyOps?) - there maybe other people/organisations that use it... but I hope others will research that for themselves. Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53130121.9020...@gmail.com
Re: Test
On Sun 02 Mar 2014 at 10:06:17 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > PS: I'll set up msmtp ASAP and then replace Evolutions SMTP thingy, to > see if I get information about the issue. Probably this will be a waste of time; you would be better off examining the headers of your mails received from the list. For the one I'm replying to: Received: from [92.224.209.210] (g224209210.adsl.alicedsl.de [92.224.209.210]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail36c50.megamailservers.eu (8.13.6/8.13.1) withESMTP id s2296FOR018536 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 2 Mar 2014 09:06:17 + alicedsl sends to mail36c50.megamailservers.eu at 09:06:17 +. Received: from mail36c50.megamailservers.eu (mail226c50.megamailservers.eu [91.136.10.236])by bendel.debian.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A883117 for ; Sun, 2 Mar 2014 09:06:19 + (UTC) Two seconds later mail36c50.megamailservers.eu sends to bendel.debian.org. No problem here. Received: from bendel.debian.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (lists.debian.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 2525) with ESMTP id iJSMII8IViEh for ; Sun, 2 Mar 2014 09:06:20 + (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])by bendel.debian.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2546ED for ; Sun, 2 Mar 2014 09:06:22 + (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])by bendel.debian.org (Postfix) with QMQP id 7F80C475; Sun, 2 Mar 2014 09:06:31 + (UTC) bendel is now ready to send the mail to the subscriber - 12 minutes after first receiving it. (Other mails may show a 15/16 minute delay). Altering the delay is not within your control. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140302095951.gb8...@copernicus.demon.co.uk
Re: Test
On Du, 02 mar 14, 09:54:01, Tom Furie wrote: > On Sun, Mar 02, 2014 at 10:06:17AM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > > PS: I'll set up msmtp ASAP and then replace Evolutions SMTP thingy, to > > see if I get information about the issue. > > If you look at the headers on your posts (or anyone else's for that > matter), you can track the progress from origin to destination. In this > instance the messages were received by the Debian mail system almost > immediately you sent them, they then came back out (in my case) fifteen > minutes later. Other people may have received their copies earlier or > later depending on several factors. It's probably also a good idea in general to subscribe to http://lists.debian.org/whitelist with all addresses one uses to post. > Email is not a real-time communication system, sometimes there are > delays, or even failures, at any step along the route. Indeed. Ralf, have you tried IRC? Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Four people decided the fate of debian with systemd. Bad faith likely
On Sb, 01 mar 14, 20:03:54, ghaverla wrote: > > But the fact there are no options is what bothers me. There are options. Even if Canonical will be pulling the plug on udev there is still OpenRC. The maintainer could use more help though. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Four people decided the fate of debian with systemd. Bad faith likely
On Sun, 2014-03-02 at 10:32 +0100, Slavko wrote: > I personaly don't like the democratic system, where anybody > participate on the decisions Neither Debian, nor the distro we should not mention are democratic, but for both distros everybody is allowed to make decisions, when becoming a member of the team. And it's possible to stay informed for both distros and to talk about veto at the right time. All I was saying is, that if somebody has got a veto against systemd. this is around 3 years to late, for Debian and more than ever fotr the distro we should not mention. I just mentioned the distro we should not mention, because I've got experiences with a _real_ systemd, by using this distro and for this distro it started with such a hybrid Debian currently provides too. I've seen all the steps from SysVinti to the hybrid pseudo-systemd (similar to the one Debian does provide now) to the _real_ systemd. I'm using Debian with SysVinit and I don't fear the switch to the _real_ systemd. My intention is to encourage people to use systemd, not to stay away from it. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1393754516.596.204.camel@archlinux
Re: Partial success and strange partial failure -was [Re: Physically have install DVD set. Want ISO's from which they came.]
Scott Ferguson wrote: On 02/03/14 11:39, Richard Owlett wrote: Brian wrote: On Sat 01 Mar 2014 at 14:38:14 -0600, Richard Owlett wrote: Created myiso1.iso from Wheezy(7.1) DVD 1 of 10 using dd and then used dd to copy it to a USB flash drive. I was able to boot from the flash drive and do several installs (different DE's). *HOWEVER* I can *NOT* mount the flash drive to view files. Tried d-i knows how to mount the ISO (otherwise all your installs would have failed). Now - what does it know that you don't? :) You be only one claiming omniscience ;/ For some reason your posts have broken threads and I can't find the first one. :/ This thread begins at https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2014/02/thrd3.html#01175 A related thread begins at https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2014/02/msg00922.html From memory you said you'd created a large CD, but didn't say whether you used the iso9660 or udf filesystem, and then dded it to a Flash key - in which case the Flash key will have an iso or udf file system as the first slice, and the remaining space will be un-used. My starting point is a purchased multi DVD set of Wheezy(7.1.0). My goal is a single bootable flash drive with an unstated presumption that it would be formatted FAT16 or FAT32. isoinfo reports the flash drive is ISO 9660. Have you tried mounting the key "-t iso9660" or udf? No. See "unstated presumption" above ;/ NOTE: d-i will "see" the Flash key as an iso image if my understanding of what you're doing is correct - which means it's already mounted when you try and "view the files". Try running the mount command and seeing if it's already mounted - if not use the "-o loop -t $isoORudf" to mount the key. You don't say *when* you try to mount it (during the install?) or how. My BIOS recognized the flash drive and I was able to do normal installs. I did separate installs of Lxde and Xfce. File managers in neither recognized the flash drive. Nor did my Squeeze install with Gnome2. Have you considered just formatting the key with ext and copying the install isos to it - then using GRUB to make it bootable? I would want FAT so I could exchange data with my WinXP machine. GRUB can boot the first iso in any Debian release, the Debian installer can load additional iso images (apt-cdrom). Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/531310a0.4080...@cloud85.net
Re: Partial success and strange partial failure -was [Re: Physically have install DVD set. Want ISO's from which they came.]
On 2 March 2014 20:41, Andrei POPESCU wrote: > On Sb, 01 mar 14, 14:38:14, Richard Owlett wrote: >> >> root@minimal-squeeze:/home/richard# isoinfo -d -i /dev/cdrom > ... >> Volume size is: 1939608 >> root@minimal-squeeze:/home/richard# dd if=/dev/cdrom bs=2048 >> count=1939608 of=/home/richard/myiso1.iso conv=notrunc >> 1939608+0 records in >> 1939608+0 records out >> 3972317184 bytes (4.0 GB) copied, 711.022 s, 5.6 MB/s > > Ok. Did you try to md5sum the image file? You can compare that to the > md5sum of the DVD. > >> root@minimal-squeeze:/home/richard# dd if=/home/richard/myiso1.iso >> bs=2048 count=1939608 of=/dev/sdb conv=notrunc >> 1939608+0 records in >> 1939608+0 records out >> 3972317184 bytes (4.0 GB) copied, 1591.35 s, 2.5 MB/s > > Not sure if this makes a differences, but why the count= and conv= ? Richard is using count and conv because I pointed him to the instructions here: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch09.en.html#_making_the_iso9660_image_file Those instructions require the count and notrunc, with this warning: "You must carefully avoid ISO9660 filesystem read ahead bug of Linux as above to get the right result." The above is Richard showing that he complied with those instructions. I would like to have more information about this "read ahead bug", but I cannot find a full bug report or similar technical discussion of it. Thomas states that "Debian i386 images are ISO 9660 filesystems" so I assume that this bug workaround is still required for them. The best information I can find is this recent post by Thomas. http://askubuntu.com/questions/408224/the-file-casper-filesystem-squashfs-is-corrupt/410492#410492 Thomas thank you for the information you already posted, I found it very interesting. Can you recommend anywhere I can read to learn more about the Debian DVD filesystems? Apart from searching for your past emails and forum posts :) And where can I learn more about the read-ahead bug: how to identify it, how to avoid it, is there a bug tracker for it, which if any source file will eventually contain a fix for it? Does it also affect udf file systems? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAMPXz=qJE7asHZuA2bO49K6pHWqvxNxmDbYEL3N+Gcw=6a1...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Partial success and strange partial failure -was [Re: Physically have install DVD set. Want ISO's from which they came.]
Thomas Schmitt wrote: Hi, i am the developer of xorriso, which created the image in question under control of the debian-cd package. Debian i386 images are ISO 9660 filesystems with El Torito Boot Record to boot from CD/DVD/BD, and with Master Boot Record, which enables them to boot from hard disk and USB stick. If you put an ISO 9660 image onto the overall device file of an USB stick (e.g. /dev/sdb) then it should be mountable by the overall device file of the stick, too: dd if=debian-7.3.0-i386-netinst.iso of=/dev/sdb mkdir /mnt/my_debian_7_1 mount -t iso9660 /dev/sdb /mnt/my_debian_7_1 To then see all its files, do find /mnt/my_debian_7_1 Some technical background: El Torito and MBR are only present for pointing BIOS to the boot files which it shall execute to bring up an operating system. The MBR might have a confusing impact on programs which inspect devices and try to be smart. A program which simply complies to the specs of ISO 9660, El Torito, and MBR should have no problem. The El Torito stuff already was shown here by the output of isoinfo. The MBR can be made visible by a run of fdisk on the .iso file /sbin/fdisk -lu debian-7.3.0-i386-netinst.iso or if already on USB stick /dev/sdb, by /sbin/fdisk -lu /dev/sdb which should yield: Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System /dev/sdb1 * 64 567295 283616 17 Hidden HPFS/NTFS This means that there is a MBR partition 1 with some filesystem. (The System type is prescribed by the ISOLINUX project.) By a special preparation of the ISO image, it should be possible to mount it as superuser by the partition device file, too: mount -t iso9660 /dev/sdb1 /mnt/my_debian_7_1 The reason why both device files /dev/sdb and /dev/sdb1 work for mounting is that the ISO has two superblocks and directory trees. One pair ready for mounting from /dev/sdb and for mounting from CD/DVD/BD. The other pair is ready for mounting /dev/sdb1. For details see: http://libburnia-project.org/wiki/PartitionOffset Have a nice day :) Thomas Beginning to see the light. Glanced at the link. Will need my morning coffee before detailed read. Motivation behind some of my odder choices is maximizing my education. If retirement isn't for education, what use is it. Thank you. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5313147c.8080...@cloud85.net
Re: Wireless AP setup: RTL8188CUS
Scott Ferguson writes:
> On 31/01/14 04:53, Csanyi Pal wrote:
> I just bought an USB dongle nano Netis WF-2120 adapter.
> WI1 chip1: Realtek RTL8188CUS
> I want to set it up on my headless Debian Wheezy server as a Wireless
> Access Point.
I builded the custom kernel version 2.6.39.4-13 with module
rtl8192cu and reboot with this kernel. So the kernel part of the setup
is OK now.
I also have installed the firmware-realtek debian package which contains
the following among others:
Realtek RTL8192CU/RTL8188CU firmware (rtlwifi/rtl8192cufw.bin)
I edited the file
/etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules
and have the following line that determine the wlan0 interface:
# USB device 0x:0x (rtl8192cu)
SUBSYSTEM=="net", ACTION=="add", DRIVERS=="?*", \
ATTR{address}=="00:e0:4c:81:92:*", ATTR{dev_id} \
=="0x0", ATTR{type}=="1", KERNEL=="wlan*", NAME="wlan0"
The ATTR{address}=="00:e0:4c:81:92:*" option determine that that
whenever I plug in again this usb wifi adapter to the usb port, I get
always the wlan0 name for this interface. Here is the "*" character is
the relevant, because that part of the mac address changes always, when
one plug in the adapter again and again.
>> Scott Ferguson writes:
>> FCC ID: T58WF2120R
>> https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/GenericSearchResult \
>> .cfm?RequestTimeout=500
When I run the command bellow:
sudo hostapd -dd /etc/hostapd/hostapd.conf
I get the messages: random: Trying to read entropy from
/dev/random Configuration file: /etc/hostapd/hostapd.conf Line 6:
invalid/unknown driver 'rtl8192sfw' 1 errors found in
configuration file '/etc/hostapd/hostapd.conf'
I tried with driver names: rtl8192cu
> FWIW that's the one I'd try (only if the stock module failed would I
> compile one from non-Debian source).
, rtlwifi to, but without
any success. Which drivername is walid? How can I find the proper
drivername for my usb wireless network adapter?
No, I think no.
Regardnig to the web page:
http://wireless.kernel.org/en/users/Documentation/hostapd
All new mac80211 based drivers that implement AP functionality are
supported with hostapd's nl80211 driver.
so, I think I must to use the 'nl80211' nema for the driver in the
hostapd.conf file.
However, I'm still trying to set this to work. I'm trying to test
hostapd by using the file hostapd-minimal.conf:
interface=wlan0
driver=nl80211
ssid=test
channel=1
bridge=br0
and when I run the following command:
csanyipal@b2:~$ sudo hostapd /etc/hostapd/hostapd-minimal.conf
Configuration file: /etc/hostapd/hostapd-minimal.conf
rfkill: Cannot open RFKILL control device
Could not set interface mon.wlan0 flags: No such device
nl80211: Failed to set interface wlan0 into AP mode
nl80211 driver initialization failed.
but does'n lose the ssh connection anymore with Bubba Two. :)
Now I have the followings in my interfaces file:
auto lo br0
iface lo inet loopback
# Internet on eth0
allow-hotplug eth0
iface eth0 inet manual
# wifi on wlan0
allow-hotplug wlan0
iface wlan0 inet manual
# Bridge setup
# for dhcp address
iface br0 inet dhcp
bridge_ports eth0 wlan0
# dns-* options are implemented by the resolvconf package, if installed
# I want to remain my wired LAN
# LAN on eth1
allow-hotplug eth1
iface eth1 inet static
address 192.168.10.1
netmask 255.255.255.0
network 192.168.10.0
broadcast 192.168.10.255
gateway 192.168.10.1
dns-nameservers 192.168.10.1
dns-search localdomain
With this setup I can't only reach the Internet, but can to ssh into
Bubba Two.
The command sudo ifconfig gives to me the followings:
br0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:22:02:00:07:3c
inet addr:95.85.167.81 Bcast:95.85.167.255
Mask:255.255.252.0
inet6 addr: fe80::222:2ff:fe00:73c/64 Scope:Link
UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1
RX packets:7577 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
TX packets:58 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
RX bytes:360740 (352.2 KiB) TX bytes:8581 (8.3 KiB)
eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:22:02:00:07:3c
UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1
RX packets:7577 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
TX packets:57 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
RX bytes:588072 (574.2 KiB) TX bytes:8047 (7.8 KiB)
Base address:0x8000
eth1 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:22:02:00:07:3d
inet addr:192.168.10.1 Bcast:192.168.10.255
Mask:255.255.255.0
inet6 addr: fe80::222:2ff:fe00:73d/64 Scope:Link
UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1
RX packets:3116 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
TX packets:4157 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
RX bytes:318666 (311.1 KiB) TX bytes:343364 (335.3 KiB)
Re: Partial success and strange partial failure -was [Re: Physically have install DVD set. Want ISO's from which they came.]
On 02/03/14 22:06, Richard Owlett wrote: > Scott Ferguson wrote: >> On 02/03/14 11:39, Richard Owlett wrote: >>> Brian wrote: On Sat 01 Mar 2014 at 14:38:14 -0600, Richard Owlett wrote: > Created myiso1.iso from Wheezy(7.1) DVD 1 of 10 using dd and then > used dd to copy it to a USB flash drive. > > I was able to boot from the flash drive and do several installs > (different DE's). > > *HOWEVER* I can *NOT* mount the flash drive to view files. If you can install from it, you can mount it (think about it) - perhaps you need to be root? d-i knows how to mount the ISO (otherwise all your installs would have failed). Now - what does it know that you don't? :) >>> >>> You be only one claiming omniscience ;/ >>> >>> >> >> For some reason your posts have broken threads and I can't find the >> first one. :/ > > This thread begins at > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2014/02/thrd3.html#01175 > A related thread begins at > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2014/02/msg00922.html > >> >>> From memory you said you'd created a large CD, but didn't say whether >> you used the iso9660 or udf filesystem, and then dded it to a Flash key >> - in which case the Flash key will have an iso or udf file system as the >> first slice, and the remaining space will be un-used. > > My starting point is a purchased multi DVD set of Wheezy(7.1.0). > My goal is a single bootable flash drive with an unstated presumption > that it would be formatted FAT16 or FAT32. isoinfo reports the flash > drive is ISO 9660. Then you should have used cat/cp to tranfer the *data* instead of dd to *duplicate* the *slice* (file system, boot sector, and data). Refer to the post from the maintainer/author of the cd creation software for more (authoritive) details. Your goal, with the now stated "presumption"/implementation is achievable using GRUB. Copy the isos to the FAT/UDF(see further down this post) Flash key - then install GRUB - then edit GRUB so it boots the first iso *image* (the first Debian iso from each release is bootable). Then you can boot from a FAT/UDF formatted Flash key - choose the iso from the GRUB menu and begin the install, during the install you'll be able to add additional CDs (negating the build-one-massive-cd-from-multiple-cds-step). > >> >> Have you tried mounting the key "-t iso9660" or udf? > > No. See "unstated presumption" above ;/ I guess your missing my point - if you dd an iso file system to a drive it (the drive) will then have the same (bit perfect) file system as what you dded. i.e. if you dd an ext4 file system the drive you dd it to will also have the *identical* ext4 slice, likewise with an iso9660 file system. > >> >> NOTE: d-i will "see" the Flash key as an iso image if my understanding >> of what you're doing is correct - which means it's already mounted when >> you try and "view the files". Try running the mount command and seeing >> if it's already mounted - if not use the "-o loop -t $isoORudf" to mount >> the key. You don't say *when* you try to mount it (during the install?) >> or how. > > My BIOS recognized the flash drive and I was able to do normal installs. Yes. It will - whether it "sees" the Flash key as an iso, ext or FAT formatted fs. > I did separate installs of Lxde and Xfce. File managers in neither > recognized the flash drive. Nor did my Squeeze install with Gnome2. Simple test - if the Flash key is /dev/sdb try (as root):- mount -o loop -t iso9660 /dev/sdb /mt;ls /mnt > >> >> Have you considered just formatting the key with ext and copying the >> install isos to it - then using GRUB to make it bootable? > > I would want FAT so I could exchange data with my WinXP machine. That'll work. Although... FAT16/32 and the other versions have limitations. May I suggest UDF. WinXP needs a driver (from MS) installed - but it will then recognize UDF - that'll free you from slice size limitations. Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53131521.8080...@gmail.com
Re: Partial success and strange partial failure -was [Re: Physically have install DVD set. Want ISO's from which they came.]
Hi, > On Sb, 01 mar 14, 14:38:14, Richard Owlett wrote: > > root@minimal-squeeze:/home/richard# dd if=/dev/cdrom bs=2048 > > count=1939608 of=/home/richard/myiso1.iso conv=notrunc > > [...] > > root@minimal-squeeze:/home/richard# dd if=/home/richard/myiso1.iso > > bs=2048 count=1939608 of=/dev/sdb conv=notrunc Andrei POPESCU wrote: > Not sure if this makes a differences, but why the count= and conv= ? > To keep things simple, could you please retry with >cp /home/richard/myiso1.iso /dev/sdb Both copy gestures for /dev/sdb are equivalent and should be ok. The conv=1939608 in the first dd command is necessary, if the MD5 of the resulting .iso file shall match the published MD5 of the Debian .iso. Most DVD types would return more bytes after the end of the ISO filesystem. The second count=1939608 is advisable, because the first dd command used conv=notrunc. Just in case that /home/richard/myiso1.iso existed before, and was larger than 1939608 * 2048 bytes. One could simplify the copy procedure by skipping the intermediate .iso file: dd if=/dev/cdrom bs=2048 count=1939608 of=/dev/sdb Whatever method was used, the MD5 sum of the resulting copy can be determined by: dd if=/dev/sdb bs=2048 count=1939608 | md5sum - and should match the published MD5 of the Debian ISO image. Have a nice day :) Thomas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/272186662546747...@scdbackup.webframe.org
Re: Partial success and strange partial failure -was [Re: Physically have install DVD set. Want ISO's from which they came.]
Andrei POPESCU wrote: On Sb, 01 mar 14, 14:38:14, Richard Owlett wrote: root@minimal-squeeze:/home/richard# isoinfo -d -i /dev/cdrom ... Volume size is: 1939608 root@minimal-squeeze:/home/richard# dd if=/dev/cdrom bs=2048 count=1939608 of=/home/richard/myiso1.iso conv=notrunc 1939608+0 records in 1939608+0 records out 3972317184 bytes (4.0 GB) copied, 711.022 s, 5.6 MB/s Ok. Did you try to md5sum the image file? You can compare that to the md5sum of the DVD. That was on my todo list when I went to bed last night. Thomas Schmitt's post seems to imply that all went as the designers intended. Things just didn't match my preconceived ideas. root@minimal-squeeze:/home/richard# dd if=/home/richard/myiso1.iso bs=2048 count=1939608 of=/dev/sdb conv=notrunc 1939608+0 records in 1939608+0 records out 3972317184 bytes (4.0 GB) copied, 1591.35 s, 2.5 MB/s Not sure if this makes a differences, but why the count= and conv= ? I was blindly following a example. To keep things simple, could you please retry with cp /home/richard/myiso1.iso /dev/sdb Kind regards, Andrei -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53131685.8000...@cloud85.net
Re: Partial success and strange partial failure -was [Re: Physically have install DVD set. Want ISO's from which they came.]
On Sat 01 Mar 2014 at 18:39:31 -0600, Richard Owlett wrote: > Brian wrote: > > > >d-i knows how to mount the ISO (otherwise all your installs would have > >failed). Now - what does it know that you don't? :) > > > > You be only one claiming omniscience ;/ The time to get worried is when mount -t iso9660 doesn't work. Up to to now there is every indication it does. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/02032014114630.a0ed62db4...@desktop.copernicus.demon.co.uk
Re: Partial success and strange partial failure -was [Re: Physically have install DVD set. Want ISO's from which they came.]
Hi, Richard Owlett wrote: > My starting point is a purchased multi DVD set of Wheezy(7.1.0). > My goal is a single bootable flash drive with an unstated presumption > that it would be formatted FAT16 or FAT32. isoinfo reports the flash > drive is ISO 9660. Yes, it is. You copied it onto the stick together with a MBR and its partition table. What you want is the old method of repacking an ISO to a USB stick. The documentation is still available as https://www.debian.org/releases/oldstable/i386/ch04s03.html.en 4.3.3. Manually copying files to the USB stick the flexible way (I myself never tried it. It looks sparse. Probably you want to look for older versions or receipes for other Linux distros.) It might become an own adventure to combine the files of all Debian DVDs, so that they work like stemming from the BD-R DL image http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/7.4.0/i386/jigdo-dlbd/ How about installing a maximum sized Debian system from DVD onto the USB stick, as if it was a hard disk ? So that the stick is not an installation medium but rather a Debian-to-go. > I would want FAT so I could exchange data with my WinXP machine. Well, WinXP should be able to mount Joliet enhanced ISO 9660. But you want write access to the stick, i assume. ISO 9660 will be mounted read-only on Linux and on Windows. So you have to format your USB stick to have a large partition with a FAT32 filesystem. If your favorite partiton editor refuses to alter the stick as it is now, then first try to zeroize its first megabyte: dd if=/dev/zero bs=1M count=1 of=/dev/sdb and check, whether the partition editor now perceives it as unused and editable. If it complains about something like "Backup GPT", then you need to zeroize the last MB, too. In worst case, zeroize the whole stick: dd if=/dev/zero bs=512 of=/dev/sdb Have a nice day :) Thomas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/32442666253035372...@scdbackup.webframe.org
Re: Test
On Sun 02 Mar 2014 at 09:54:01 +, Tom Furie wrote: > If you look at the headers on your posts (or anyone else's for that > matter), you can track the progress from origin to destination. In this > instance the messages were received by the Debian mail system almost > immediately you sent them, they then came back out (in my case) fifteen > minutes later. Other people may have received their copies earlier or > later depending on several factors. > > Email is not a real-time communication system, sometimes there are > delays, or even failures, at any step along the route. The interesting questions involve what is happening on bendel after a mail is accepted. 1. Why is any mail delayed for 15 minutes before onward transmission? 2. Why do some users and not others experience this 15 minute delay? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/02032014121841.6b616e3aa...@desktop.copernicus.demon.co.uk
Re: Test
On 02/03/2014 07:24, Brian wrote: > On Sun 02 Mar 2014 at 09:54:01 +, Tom Furie wrote: > >> If you look at the headers on your posts (or anyone else's for that >> matter), you can track the progress from origin to destination. In this >> instance the messages were received by the Debian mail system almost >> immediately you sent them, they then came back out (in my case) fifteen >> minutes later. Other people may have received their copies earlier or >> later depending on several factors. >> >> Email is not a real-time communication system, sometimes there are >> delays, or even failures, at any step along the route. > > The interesting questions involve what is happening on bendel after a > mail is accepted. > > 1. Why is any mail delayed for 15 minutes before onward transmission? > > 2. Why do some users and not others experience this 15 minute delay? > > Not sure if it helps, but I have the "delay" because I wasn't subbed to the mailing list directly (am hitting it via NNTP). Casually went through my junk mail, and saw some rejects from debian lists to the effect of "you're not subbed, so your mail is pending moderator review". -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5313245a.9080...@djph.net
Re: Partial success and strange partial failure -was [Re: Physically have install DVD set. Want ISO's from which they came.]
Hi, > I would like to have more information about this "read ahead bug", but > I cannot find a full bug report or similar technical discussion of it. dd count= will not save you from it. It is in the block device driver of Linux for CD reading. CD media can bear sectors which do not represent data blocks. (Most known is the CD-DA format. You cannot dd a bought music CD.) The CD write type TAO produces a CD track, which at its end has two CD sectors which do not represent data blocks either. Nevertheless they are announced by the medium's table-of-content as part of the track. Linux reads CD tracks in large chunks (i assume 128 KB). Believing to know the number of readable blocks from the table-of-content, it often tries to read the unreadable last two blocks of a TAO track. This read attempt of the last track chunk then fails, which is ok so far. There are no user data in those blocks. Everything is stored in the blocks before. But Linux is not smart enough to repeat the read attempt with only the number of blocks which are required from filesystem driver or from userland process. Instead it cries "I/O error" and drops the whole last chunk (with up to 126 KB valid data, i believe). Therefore, all CD burn programs on Linux add padding by default, to keep all valuable data out of the last chunk. A wrong diagnosis by Joerg Schilling in the last century lead to the default size of 300 KB padding. Actually it depends on the chunk size of the Linux driver. And actually, it could have been fixed in Linux long time ago. Pressed CD-ROMs and CDs written with write type SAO do not trigger this read-ahead-bug. ... whew, history. > which if any source file will eventually contain a fix for it? As said, the bug is normally avoided by adding sacrifices to the end of the track. 150 blocks of zeros to please the god of bugs. But reading this yields too many blocks, instead of too few. So MD5 will be wrong, if not appropriately truncated. > Does it also affect udf file systems? It affects any kind of data, written with CD write type TAO. UDF read-write filesystems are usually written onto formatted CD-RW, where TAO is not applicable. Nevertheless, TAO can happen when you burn a filesystem image file onto CD. You can avoid the problem by using option -sao with cdrecord, wodim, or xorrecord. > Thomas states that "Debian i386 images are ISO 9660 filesystems" so I > assume that this bug workaround is still required for them. It rather works around the fact that most media types let you read more data than just the user payload. Either because of the traditional 300 KB padding, or because the medium type demands alignment to full 32 KB, or because the medium does not tell the size of the last burn session at all (e.g. DVD+RW, BD-RE). So if your MD5 sum shall match, then you must enforce that it is computed from the same number of bytes as the original ISO image has. That's the job of dd option count=. > Can you recommend anywhere I can read to learn more > about the Debian DVD filesystems? The i386 ISOs are more or less what is described in http://www.syslinux.org/wiki/index.php/ISOLINUX plus all the files of Debian d-i, beginning with kernel and initial RAM-disk, and ending at the package files. They get treated by xorriso like would be done by http://www.syslinux.org/wiki/index.php/Doc/isolinux#HYBRID_CD-ROM.2FHARD_DISK_MODE Debian ISOs get created by an expert package called "debian-cd", which has its own mailing list: https://lists.debian.org/debian-cd/ The options used with the mkisofs-emulation of xorriso are recorded in the file /.disk/mkisofs of each bootable Debian ISO image. Have "man xorrisofs" ready. The amd64 ISOs additionally have EFI boot equipment. Inspired by http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/11285.html My knowledge on byte-level is collected in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~libburnia-team/libisofs/scdbackup/view/head:/doc/boot_sectors.txt Have a nice day :) Thomas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/22323666239272333...@scdbackup.webframe.org
Re: Four people decided the fate of debian with systemd. Bad faith likely
Systemd is over 200,000 lines of ring0 running bullshit.Regular inits are under 10k lines of code inclusive.Some are 100 lines of code.Hmm which is easier to find exploits in.SystemD.Notice how the fknuts always try to change the tables."It's YOU who are the shill!"And always it is the same argument:supercomplex softwares running as root are great!When it's unaudited, even better!(If we can't corrupt the kernel, build a newless looked at "critical" piece of softwareunderneath!)If there are shills, it's the systemd fans,Notice the tone of their arguments are always the sameit's almost as if... they are the same personor the same people are writing their "arguments"(Which all mostly amount to simple proselytizingor appeal to authority once they get their footin the door)Here's an easy way for concurrent boot:command1 & command2 & command3;othercommand1 & othercommand2 & othercommand3;thirdsetofcommands1 & thirdsetofcommands2 & thirdsetofcommands3;You see what bullshit systemd is now?(Nice gmail address scott, who do they work with, oh yes,the US government, helping to enforce the US beliefsystem around the world, almost like it's a religion,and those who don't obey the US belief system,say those who don't join the economic or social foldsay by continuing to marry little girls and not allowing pipelines and trainlines through theirland, well they and their families get drone bombedin their houses. It's either the US way or deathor imprisonment. Everyone must obey.*)Notice how one or two or three linux distros aren't enoughfor the systemd people. They must have all eight of the main linux distros under their belt or control.One boat isn't enough for them. Two boats isn't enough for them.They must have all the boats.I wonder why. Easy: They want control. They want easy exploits.They get it through tricks and exploiting the processesof the distros. None of us got to vote on this(and even if we did, if they stuff the ballotswith 51 percent, then we have to "shut up"just like in American democracy. The 48 percent of the population that is made up of men has to shut up becausethe 52 percent of the population that is female said no marrying young girls, no mouthing off to womenat work, no sex when you want with your wive(s) (RAPE!),and yes, to mandatory forced schooling so this reigncontinues and continues forever)*(in response to my FG address)On 02/03/14 11:28, Ralf Mardorf wrote:> On Sun, 2014-03-02 at 10:55 +1100, Scott Ferguson wrote:>> Here's mine:->> troll elsewhere - try rabbleRus.org or LetMeTellUWhat2Do.mob> > :D> > We Arch users made a poll. Even if more users would have been against> systemd, the developers would have switched to systemd, but most users> wanted systemd. We, around 49% and me were against systemd, but around> 51 % were pro systemd. Nowadays it makes live easier for all of us who> use several different distros, when _all_ or at least the most important> distros will switch to systemd. To discuss pros and cons of systemd a> time machine is needed, to go back more than 3 years ago. To discuss it> in 2014 is a little bit to late.> > Same with Debian based on what I read, the vote was fairly evenly split,which is why it went to the Technical Committee, who were also fairlyevenly split.My concern is that it's a divisive issue that would be tempting forthird parties to exacerbate and exploit. Commercial software vendors,and the companies that do their "marketing" and "public relation" mightwant to take advantage of the situation to reduce the market share theylose to Debian (and Linux as a whole). It wouldn't be that far from thesort of dirty tactics they've employed in the past.And then there's NSA (and the companies they outsource to) - they *do*have an agenda that would be furthered by creating divisions anduncertainty in Debian. They've made large investments in software hookedto the existing init system - and while they'll have to retool to usesystemd it doesn't mean they have the same access required to replaceexisting malware installations, additionally they would probably enjoyseeing less people use Debian.I'm not saying the OP is a shill/disinformation/agent provocateur - justbecause it looks like a duck, paddles like a duck, and has it's headhidden, doesn't mean it is a duck. Could be just a decoy.Even though the spooks do like the French Guinea TLD and get theirscripts from PsyOps... just a thought, probably paranoia on my part.Kind regards The Free Email with so much more!=> http://www.MuchoMail.com <=
Re: Four people decided the fate of debian with systemd. Bad faith likely
On 02/03/14 23:21, disbandtechc...@tfwno.gf wrote: > Regular inits are under 10k lines of code inclusive. Um, are you kind of limiting your audience? The vast majority of the readers of this list are familiar with the internet. Have *you* heard of it? Did you consider they might check? You know - like compare apples with apples, logger *and* init with logger and init. > > Notice how the fknuts always try to change the tables. > "It's YOU who are the shill!" OMG you're so right (lol) Not that I want to keep you from your work. > And always it is the same argument: > supercomplex softwares running as root are great! That'd be superdoopercomplex (blakmagikalabristic) wouldn't it? > > When it's unaudited, In the land of lollipops and chocolate ponies, or the land of FUD. But not in Debian. Have you heard of Open Source? Many eyes...? Intelligent discussion? Hello? I guess not. :/ > > Here's an easy way for concurrent boot: > > command1 & command2 & command3; > othercommand1 & othercommand2 & othercommand3; > thirdsetofcommands1 & thirdsetofcommands2 & thirdsetofcommands3; Um, you do know pseudocode is not an actual, um, code. (and that ain't pseudocode as we know it) In actual code (you know - the clicketty clicketty thing the pointy heads do) that'd be just like, um, systemd[*1]. Which, if you'd done *any* research, you'd know I don't advocate - just have respect for the Debian Constitution, the end result of which is the Debian I use. [*1] or *systemv*, and probably a bunch of other init systems I'm not familiar with. > > > > (Nice gmail address scott, Yes. Scott is my name Mr? um, disbandtech. gmail is just a tool I use because I don't spam the list with my business. I guess hypocrisy is your strong point. Now you can go wash your hands. Mud sticks. As for *you* using the SOA mailing address to shill this list - I'm guessing you got a smack from your bosses for that. Just like the fool who was your predecessor when he stupidly posted from wonderland.mil. Maybe there's something to be said for the theory that morality and technical ability are inextricably linked... If you still have your job tomorrow it'll be with instructions to post from a throwaway email address - under strict supervision on a temporary contract. > who do they work with, oh yes, > the US government, Logical and irrefutable conclusion Sherlock, I am in awe of your insight - where do I sign up to your newsletter?. Did you really believe being intellectually challenged was a requirement for subscribing to this list? Or are you just blindly following a script? Seriously - I'm fascinated. Now I'm bored (apologies to others who were already beyond boredom). Kind regards (to the rest of the list). signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Test
On Sun, Mar 02, 2014 at 12:24:26PM +, Brian wrote: > The interesting questions involve what is happening on bendel after a > mail is accepted. > > 1. Why is any mail delayed for 15 minutes before onward transmission? Could be any of many reasons. System load, SMTP transmission failure, routing problems... the list goes on. > 2. Why do some users and not others experience this 15 minute delay? I haven't done any analysis, but I'd expect most if not all of us experience delays from time to time. For the case in question, it's not all of Ralf's messages that are being delayed, only those in the systemd thread. In fact, it looks as if *all* messages in that thread were delayed by roughly the same amount of time. My guess is extra processing for particularly suspicious looking messages. Or for the conspiracists out there, perhaps they were intercepted en route... ;) Cheers, Tom -- BOFH excuse #306: CPU-angle has to be adjusted because of vibrations coming from the nearby road signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Black screen with nvidia driver
Hi! everybody - hoping to get some help troubleshooting. Running unstable with nvidia driver on a MacBook Pro 10,1 with no problems until I performed an upgrade, kernel compile, and “m-a a-i nvidia" a couple of days ago …Now, the console screen clears, the cursor is visible for a second in the upper left, and I’m left with a blank black screen. I notice the backlight stays on, whereas before ( iirc ) the screen would go completely dark during the “mode switch” -> nvidia logo -> desktop. I’ve included Xorg.log and syslog below. To me nothing seems obviously wrong. Not sure what to try next. The driver seems to load successfully. Also, the nouveau driver works. Xorg.0.log Description: Binary data syslog Description: Binary data --MikeMike Strean
Re: Netflix on Sid, no wine.
Hugo Vanwoerkom writes: > Hi, > > A few days ago Google News carried this: > http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/easily-enable-silverlight-watch-netflix-linux/ > > I tried it and it works as advertized, an easy installation and > Netflix works. > > IMO the latter is overrated: mostly old hat hu hum movies. > > Hugo Thanks! It's very nice to have netflix available at last! You're right, it is overrated, but it's what's available; it seems to me like it was better a few years ago. It looks like a pay-per-play model is winning this particular battle. It's really unfortunate that non-DRM-encumbered files seem to be losing (when they pretty much won the audio content battle, I had high hopes). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1b7g8c4mbi@snowball.wb.pfeifferfamily.net
Re: Four people decided the fate of debian with systemd. Bad faith likely
On Sat, 1 Mar 2014 18:26:25 -0700 ghaverla wrote: > > I will try Sabyon (sp?). But it looks like it might move to systemd > willingly leaving no option. It is based on Gentoo, which I could > move to. Gord, I tested Sabayon during my last "distro shootout", and it's *a lot* different than Debian, especially Debian Stable. Sabayon is a rolling distro, which can be convenient, but means broken code could sneak onto your computer at any time. This is also true of things like Ubuntu, but it's not true of Debian Stable unless a security update is bad. Sabayon isn't all that easy to install. If I remember correctly, I was forced to configure the kernel myself at install time (I might be confusing it with Gentoo, this shootout was about 3 years ago). I got the kernel wrong, and had to boot from System Rescue CD. Anyway, Sabayon was difficult to install, and felt rather fragile to me. I have no knowledge of init systems and couldn't possibly comment on systemd vs udev vs SysV, so I don't understand what's so terrible about systemd. But my research from 3 years ago tell me that Sabayon's no panacea. I just started using Debian (Wheezy) on a regular basis, and like its solid ease. Systemd would need to be awfully bad for me to give that up. Thanks, SteveT Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/ Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140302112759.5e50a80c@mydesk
Re: Four people decided the fate of debian with systemd. Bad faith likely
On Sun, 2014-03-02 at 11:27 -0500, Steve Litt of Troubleshooters.Com wrote: > If I remember correctly, I was forced to configure the kernel myself > at install time Simply download a default Debian .config and then build the Sabayon kernel, SICR :D. Regards, Ralf PS: Forwarded Message From: Ralf Mardorf To: d-community-offto...@lists.alioth.debian.org Cc: debian-user Subject: Re: Four people decided the fate of debian with systemd. Bad faith likely Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2014 15:41:25 +0100 Mailer: Evolution 3.10.4 A discussion without a flame war about systemd would be nice, perhaps we could continue at http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic and stay a little bit reasonable. "One boat isn't enough for them. Two boats isn't enough for them. They must have all the boats." _Them_/_they_ are _we_, the community. I prefer SysVinit over systemd, but most people want systemd, it wasn't the USA who forced us to use it, we, the community decided to use it. Every user is free to become a trusted user/distro maintainer and to co-operate in such decisions. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1393779214.668.39.camel@archlinux
Re: Four people decided the fate of debian with systemd. Bad faith likely
On 03/02/2014 02:02 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 02/03/14 16:53, y...@marupa.net wrote: On Sunday, March 02, 2014 04:25:13 PM Scott Ferguson wrote: On 02/03/14 11:28, Ralf Mardorf wrote: On Sun, 2014-03-02 at 10:55 +1100, Scott Ferguson wrote: Here's mine:- troll elsewhere - try rabbleRus.org or LetMeTellUWhat2Do.mob :D We Arch users made a poll. Even if more users would have been against systemd, the developers would have switched to systemd, but most users wanted systemd. We, around 49% and me were against systemd, but around 51 % were pro systemd. Nowadays it makes live easier for all of us who use several different distros, when _all_ or at least the most important distros will switch to systemd. To discuss pros and cons of systemd a time machine is needed, to go back more than 3 years ago. To discuss it in 2014 is a little bit to late. Same with Debian based on what I read, the vote was fairly evenly split, which is why it went to the Technical Committee, who were also fairly evenly split. Which probably demonstrates why there's no hidden agenda going on surrounding systemd and there were legitimate reasons why it was finally chosen. My concern is that it's a divisive issue that would be tempting for third parties to exacerbate and exploit. Commercial software vendors, and the companies that do their "marketing" and "public relation" might want to take advantage of the situation to reduce the market share they lose to Debian (and Linux as a whole). It wouldn't be that far from the sort of dirty tactics they've employed in the past. Definitely reasonable concerns, though to be honest, Linux's detractors would have looked for something else to latch onto if systemd wasn't divisive enough. As well as? In a few more years I imagine most people opposed to systemd won't have a problem with it being there after all after using it for a bit. I'd be very surprised if it wasn't modified to suit the needs of the majority of developers - and they tend have the same itches as the "users", just slightly less conservative about their "needs". But I'm not a futurist. Though I did try voting conservative for a change - not surprisingly I was disappointed ;p Has it occurred to anyone that the devs keep making changes to things that work perfectly well, because if they didn't, they wouldn't have anything to do, and might be out of a job? --doug -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53137869.3030...@optonline.net
Re: Four people decided the fate of debian with systemd. Bad faith likely
On Du, 02 mar 14, 13:28:57, Doug wrote: > On 03/02/2014 02:02 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote: > >On 02/03/14 16:53, y...@marupa.net wrote: > >>In a few more years I imagine most people opposed to systemd won't > >>have a problem with it being there after all after using it for a bit. > >I'd be very surprised if it wasn't modified to suit the needs of the > >majority of developers - and they tend have the same itches as the > >"users", just slightly less conservative about their "needs". But I'm > >not a futurist. > >Though I did try voting conservative for a change - not surprisingly I > >was disappointed ;p > > > Has it occurred to anyone that the devs keep making changes to things > that work perfectly well, because if they didn't, they wouldn't have > anything to do, and might be out of a job? If this is supposed to be sarcasm it might be advisable to add corresponding tags or so. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Netflix on Sid, no wine.
Hugo Vanwoerkom writes: > A few days ago Google News carried this: > http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/easily-enable-silverlight-watch-netflix-linux/ > > I tried it and it works as advertized, an easy installation and Netflix > works. Thank you for the heads-up! I can confirm that this works fine in iceweasel on wheezy under 64/32-bit multiarch after just a few minutes' reading and fiddling. > IMO the latter is overrated: mostly old hat hu hum movies. Here in the UK they have things like Archer and Breaking Bad which can be fun; they also have a reasonable amount of anime. There isn't a lot of good stuff, though: I can't compellingly rebut your impression. -- Mark -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/87d2i41kgx@ixod.org
Re: Four people decided the fate of debian with systemd. Bad faith likely
On Sun, 2 Mar 2014 11:27:59 -0500 "Steve Litt of Troubleshooters.Com" wrote: > On Sat, 1 Mar 2014 18:26:25 -0700 > ghaverla wrote: > > > > I will try Sabyon (sp?). But it looks like it might move to systemd > > willingly leaving no option. It is based on Gentoo, which I could > > move to. > > I tested Sabayon during my last "distro shootout", and it's *a lot* > different than Debian, especially Debian Stable. Sabayon is a rolling > distro, which can be convenient, but means broken code could sneak > onto your computer at any time. This is also true of things like > Ubuntu, but it's not true of Debian Stable unless a security update > is bad. > > Sabayon isn't all that easy to install. If I remember correctly, I was > forced to configure the kernel myself at install time (I might be > confusing it with Gentoo, this shootout was about 3 years ago). I got > the kernel wrong, and had to boot from System Rescue CD. Anyway, > Sabayon was difficult to install, and felt rather fragile to me. > > I have no knowledge of init systems and couldn't possibly comment on > systemd vs udev vs SysV, so I don't understand what's so terrible > about systemd. But my research from 3 years ago tell me that > Sabayon's no panacea. > > I just started using Debian (Wheezy) on a regular basis, and like its > solid ease. Systemd would need to be awfully bad for me to give that > up. Hi Steve. We both moved to Claws from kmail at about the same time. Most of the programming I have done is numerical methods, but for years on Debian I was compiling my own kernel. I am trying to start a big project at Savannah involving a bunch of number crunching, when this came up. But I have done a bunch of systems stuff, running Sabyon, Gentoo or Slackware shouldn't be a problem. I maintained a token ring driver for a few kernel revisions past where upstream quit, cross compiled gcc on Linux for Solaris, ported Perl-4.x to QNX-2.x. Gord -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140302113108.61eaf0a7@newmain.materia
Re: Four people decided the fate of debian with systemd. Bad faith likely
On Sunday, March 02, 2014 01:28:57 PM Doug wrote: > On 03/02/2014 02:02 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote: > > On 02/03/14 16:53, y...@marupa.net wrote: > >> On Sunday, March 02, 2014 04:25:13 PM Scott Ferguson wrote: > >>> On 02/03/14 11:28, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Sun, 2014-03-02 at 10:55 +1100, Scott Ferguson wrote: > > Here's mine:- > > troll elsewhere - try rabbleRus.org or LetMeTellUWhat2Do.mob > > > :D > > We Arch users made a poll. Even if more users would have been against > systemd, the developers would have switched to systemd, but most users > wanted systemd. We, around 49% and me were against systemd, but around > 51 % were pro systemd. Nowadays it makes live easier for all of us who > use several different distros, when _all_ or at least the most > important > distros will switch to systemd. To discuss pros and cons of systemd a > time machine is needed, to go back more than 3 years ago. To discuss it > in 2014 is a little bit to late. > >>> > >>> Same with Debian based on what I read, the vote was fairly evenly split, > >>> which is why it went to the Technical Committee, who were also fairly > >>> evenly split. > >> > >> Which probably demonstrates why there's no hidden agenda going on > >> surrounding systemd and there were legitimate reasons why it was finally > >> chosen.>> > >>> My concern is that it's a divisive issue that would be tempting for > >>> third parties to exacerbate and exploit. Commercial software vendors, > >>> and the companies that do their "marketing" and "public relation" might > >>> want to take advantage of the situation to reduce the market share they > >>> lose to Debian (and Linux as a whole). It wouldn't be that far from the > >>> sort of dirty tactics they've employed in the past. > >> > >> Definitely reasonable concerns, though to be honest, Linux's detractors > >> would have looked for something else to latch onto if systemd wasn't > >> divisive enough. > > > > As well as? > > > >> In a few more years I imagine most people opposed to systemd won't > >> have a problem with it being there after all after using it for a bit. > > > > I'd be very surprised if it wasn't modified to suit the needs of the > > majority of developers - and they tend have the same itches as the > > "users", just slightly less conservative about their "needs". But I'm > > not a futurist. > > Though I did try voting conservative for a change - not surprisingly I > > was disappointed ;p > > Has it occurred to anyone that the devs keep making changes to things > that work perfectly well, because if they didn't, they wouldn't have > anything > to do, and might be out of a job? > > --doug Well, while I wouldn't rule out change for change's sake, I do personally believe this was an actual needed change, between how inefficient and problematic initscripts can be to how badly Linux needs an actual system manager capable of unifying configuration, device management, and service control... Not to mention sysvinit has even been stated by it own upstream maintainer that it's become a trouble to upkeep. Sure, systemd has its flaws (While I like the journal, there are downsides to a binary-based log when your system is screwed up and your only resource is a LiveCD. I don't know if there's a way to read the journal outside the system that created it.), but ultimately between our choices: Stick with SysV, Upstart (Which takes an everything and the kitchen sink approach to its dependency startups and encourages complexity.), and OpenRC (Which utterly misses the reasons why SysV needs replacing.), I'd choose systemd. The only arguments I've seen against systemd, at least in this thread is either "it's change, and change is evil" and "Red Hat/Lennart did it, so it must be bad." I think a lot of the resistance seems grounded in an irrational hatred of corporate involvement in Linux. IT's VERY irrational given that a huge portion, if not most of, the kernel itself is corporate code from companies like Red Hat, IBM, Intel, Motorola, Google, HP, and even Microsoft... A significant portion of the drivers in the kernel tree are, themselves, provided by the company that made the hardware in the first place. Drivers for Intel GPUs on Linux ARE the official Intel-provided driver and are part of the tree. Strip away all corporate contributions and support and Linux really IS a hobby OS no one can use for anything. Conrad -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/2195697.RESnpIPavN@twilight
Numerical Methods Programming: was: Four people decided the yadda yadda yadda
On Sun, 2 Mar 2014 11:31:08 -0700 ghaverla wrote: > Most of the programming I have done is numerical methods, What language did you use? I've used a little bit of Scheme, and kind of liked it for numbers. When you say numerical methods programming, do you mean this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numerical_analysis I've often thought of writing a differentiator program in Python, or who knows, maybe Scheme, perhaps something that solves y = f(x) type equations simply by iterating closer and closer to see where it crosses the axes. This gets ever more inviting, because I'm continually forgetting more and more of my high school and college math. I'd love to know what you're doing and how you're doing it. SteveT Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/ Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140302144621.53d6b3ff@mydesk
Re: Four people decided the fate of debian with systemd. Bad faith likely
On Sun, 2014-03-02 at 13:05 -0600, y...@marupa.net wrote: > While I like the journal, there are downsides to a > binary-based log when your system is screwed up and your only resource is a > LiveCD. I don't know if there's a way to read the journal outside the system > that created it. $ sudo systemd-nspawn -D /mnt/point # journalctl ;) Assumed the live CD isn't using systemd, then use chroot instead of systemd-nspawn. Btw. I dislike journalctl. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1393797380.668.74.camel@archlinux
Re: Numerical Methods Programming: was: Four people decided the yadda yadda yadda
On Sun, 2 Mar 2014 14:46:21 -0500 "Steve Litt of Troubleshooters.Com" wrote: > On Sun, 2 Mar 2014 11:31:08 -0700 > ghaverla wrote: > > > > Most of the programming I have done is numerical methods, > > What language did you use? I've used a little bit of Scheme, and kind > of liked it for numbers. > > When you say numerical methods programming, do you mean this: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numerical_analysis I still have fortran as a user ID on some websites. My M.Eng. project (mid 80's) was a dynamical system of differential equations where equations disappeared at random, in VAX FORTRAN. I had doubly linked lists and garbage collection in FORTRAN to run this stuff. I've done some in C, some in C++ and a lot in Perl. > I've often thought of writing a differentiator program in Python, or > who knows, maybe Scheme, perhaps something that solves y = f(x) type > equations simply by iterating closer and closer to see where it > crosses the axes. This gets ever more inviting, because I'm > continually forgetting more and more of my high school and college > math. > > I'd love to know what you're doing and how you're doing it. This big project I want to start at Savannah (the nongnu side) is probably going to be 45-55 Perl modules when it is finished. The data I am working from is GPS tracklog data, but there is no reason a person couldn't have trace element analysis of a surface from inside an Auger microscope (my background is materials science and engineering). Outliers happen, especially with personal GPS and no differentials (or postprocessing). Most of the methods for detecting outliers, strictly speaking, can only be used to detect a single outlier in data. One of my modules is in implementation of Pierce's Criteria, where I have tables to detect up to 9 outliers in up to 60 data points. As I am starting with tens of thousands of points, I have to get down to 60 before I can think about applying this to flag outliers (in GPS, some errors are "blunders", which can be corrected after the fact). I am using a median quadtree to partition the data so that it eventually gets down to 60 or less points. The idea is to surface things eventually using thin plate splines, but they have a free parameter in their design. So, I want to wrap the TPS fitting with Leave One Out Cross Validation. To find the optimal value of the parameter, I am supercharging Brent's Method for function minimization based on work Jack Crenshaw (Embedded.com) has done, and adding some ideas of my own (he wants his new version to work in embedded devices, I want mine to be general purpose). Another thing I am trying to set up, is coming up with a course (professional development) to teach engineers about computational statistics (Monte Carlo, bootstrap, jackknife, and others). I'm a bit of an outlier in Materials Science and Engineering. Gord -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140302151633.37dd1bd0@newmain.materia
Re: Four people decided the fate of debian with systemd. Bad faith likely
On 03/03/14 05:28, Doug wrote: > On 03/02/2014 02:02 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote: >> On 02/03/14 16:53, y...@marupa.net wrote: >>> On Sunday, March 02, 2014 04:25:13 PM Scott Ferguson wrote: On 02/03/14 11:28, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Sun, 2014-03-02 at 10:55 +1100, Scott Ferguson wrote: >> >>> In a few more years I imagine most people opposed to systemd won't >>> have a problem with it being there after all after using it for a bit. >> I'd be very surprised if it wasn't modified to suit the needs of the >> majority of developers - and they tend have the same itches as the >> "users", just slightly less conservative about their "needs". But I'm >> not a futurist. >> Though I did try voting conservative for a change - not surprisingly I >> was disappointed ;p >> >> > Has it occurred to anyone that the devs keep making changes to things > that work perfectly well, because if they didn't, they wouldn't have > anything > to do, and might be out of a job? > > --doug > > In two decades of using "Linux" (building, deploying, supporting), mostly Debian, *no*. And that's a "considered" opinion based on a fair "understanding" of what's involved. udev and UUID are good examples. But you're free to ride a donkey and run kernel_0.1 on steam power if you want. Just as those without the experience or ability are free to conflate "thought" and "imagination" so they can "intuitively" "understand" what's involved in processes performed by people with lesser "powers" who had to spend years learning the processes. apropos of little. Conservatism - a faith (often associated with a gun fetish) held by those who believe King Cnut conspired with the tide, and a fear that all change is not inevitable, but the result of some sort of liberal/communist/socialist/academic/freeloader plot that invariably confirms their deeply held belief that "it's all about 'them' stealing what's mine". Not a path to happiness or peace. Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5313ad85.4000...@gmail.com
Re: Bug#727708: Call for Votes on init system coupling
On 03/03/14 09:43, NoTo CTTE wrote: An informed, enlightening, and calm perspective:- http://lwn.net/Articles/585219/ Kind regards -- "Knowledge is the enemy of faith and ignorance" -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5313bb0e.4010...@gmail.com
Re: Proposal - preserve freedom of choice of init systems - Linux IS about CHOICE
*Plonk*. -- -- Matthias Urlichs signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Debian init choices
Hi all, I was just wondering something. How much effort would it take for me, personally, just me, to make my Debian Stable start all its processes with DJB's Daemontools. I know Daemontools, I understand it, I know how to work with it and how to troubleshoot it. What I don't know is: 1) How to get the kernel to pass off control to Daemontools? 2) How to know which processes get run after boot? 3) Can one start drivers with Daemontools? 4) Would there be a performance or stability cost to doing this, other than boot taking longer, which I don't care about that much? Please understand, I'm *not* suggesting this be incorporated in any Linux distribution. I'm aware that if it were such an excellent idea, other distros would be doing it this way already. Speaking just for myself, and possibly doing this just for myself, I just find sysinit or whatever it's called, and upstart, to be a little too black-boxy for my taste, and from what I read, systemd won't be much different in that regard. Thanks, SteveT Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/ Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140302184433.61c9ee7a@mydesk
Re: Debian init choices
On Sun, Mar 02, 2014 at 06:44:33PM -0500, Steve Litt wrote: > I was just wondering something. How much effort would it take for me, > personally, just me, to make my Debian Stable start all its processes > with DJB's Daemontools. I know Daemontools, I understand it, I know how > to work with it and how to troubleshoot it. What I don't know is: > > 1) How to get the kernel to pass off control to Daemontools? > 2) How to know which processes get run after boot? > 3) Can one start drivers with Daemontools? > 4) Would there be a performance or stability cost to doing this, other >than boot taking longer, which I don't care about that much? You can put any executable binary in /sbin/init and the kernel will run it when it's finished loading. Cheers, Tom -- Love thy neighbor, tune thy piano. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Four people decided the fate of debian with systemd. Bad faith likely
On Sun, 02 Mar 2014 16:53:59 +1100 Scott Ferguson wrote: > > I disagree with the binaryness of > > systemd. > > Do you mean the *one* binary in systemd? I'm pretty sure the source > is available. As I understand things, one of the benefits of systemd is a fast boot process. As I only boot my computer once per year (or so), this is terribly important to me (sarcasm). My computer spends a lot of time doing BOINC. As I understand things, to speed up the boot process, all the script files get replaced with binary stuff. If there is a problem, you're hooped as you can't edit some text file to fix things. Along with this goes a more complicated PID=1. The guys at Bell Labs were all smart guys. Text files and simple PID=1 make a lot of sense. There are lots of people who like the idea of fast boot times. I think most of these people are looking for hibernation, not boot. > > But knowing Debian was going to change, I went looking for refuge, > > and things derived from Gentoo might be home, things derived from > > Slackware might be home. > > Choice is good. Fortunately it's one of the key benefits of Open > Source development. There is no choice, when we are informed that systemd will be the default in 8.0, when in unstable and testing systemd is already present and seemingly no way to remove it. Or rather there is a choice: your way or the highway. And my decision, was highway. Maybe things were presented wrong. Maybe things were not presented when they should have been. I have autism, and tend to take everything at face value. As I seen things, there was no choice. As things progress, I still see no choice, except the highway. Gord -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140302173102.611b7c4c@newmain.materia
Re: Debian init choices
On Lu, 03 mar 14, 00:45:19, Tom Furie wrote: > > You can put any executable binary in /sbin/init and the kernel will run > it when it's finished loading. Actually, you just need to pass the proper 'init=' parameter to the kernel. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Four people decided the fate of debian with systemd. Bad faith likely
This isn't properly replied to. I am new to Claws, and I have no time to figure out gpg signing. On Sun, 2 Mar 2014 11:56:22 +0200 Andrei POPESCU wrote: > On Sb, 01 mar 14, 20:03:54, ghaverla wrote: > > > > But the fact there are no options is what bothers me. > > There are options. Even if Canonical will be pulling the plug on udev > there is still OpenRC. The maintainer could use more help though. I looked in Debian a week or so ago. OpenRC wasn't even in experimental. Either I looked wrong, or it has only recently been added. I know OpenRC is at Gentoo (that where it came from, as I understand things). I don't understand Canonical pulling plug on udev. Pulling plug on upstart makes sense, pulling plug on systemd makes sense. Gord -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140302171839.4f667adb@newmain.materia
Re: Debian init choices
On Mon, Mar 03, 2014 at 02:53:35AM +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote: > Actually, you just need to pass the proper 'init=' parameter to the > kernel. That works too, but by default the kernel will look for /sbin/init. For testing purposes passing the parameter would obviously be the safer choice. Cheers, Tom -- The Golden Rule is of no use to you whatever unless you realize it is your move. -- Frank Crane signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Four people decided the fate of debian with systemd. Bad faith likely
On Sun, 02 Mar 2014 13:05:20 -0600 y...@marupa.net wrote: > Sure, systemd has its flaws (While I like the journal, there are > downsides to a binary-based log when your system is screwed up and > your only resource is a LiveCD. I don't know if there's a way to read > the journal outside the system that created it.), but ultimately > between our choices: Stick with SysV, Upstart (Which takes an > everything and the kitchen sink approach to its dependency startups > and encourages complexity.), and OpenRC (Which utterly misses the > reasons why SysV needs replacing.), I'd choose systemd. My inclination is to edit out even more, but perhaps too much context gets hit. I've been playing UN*X since 1984. Init files are what they are. They get executed once at boot, and seldom seen again. I've seen different variations, including having everything in rc.local. I want to do number crunching, I don't want to be bothered by the boot process. It works. If I have to go make coffee while the boot process is happening, I'll go make coffee. In reading about UN*X since 1984, I have never seen mention of problems with the boot process, niggles yes. But things that cause the entire system to be classified as unusable, no. This kind of talk (writing) in my experience, is just in the last maybe 2 months. Systemd seems to have 2 proponents, people interested in fast booting, and people interested in servers. The intersection of those two groups is almost the NULL set. I think the answer to faster booting is hibernation, and people have been playing with that for many years as near as I can tell. To the people running servers who want faster booting, I would suggest that they not turn the things off. It isn't change is evil, the saying is if it isn't broken, don't fix it. Up until a month or so ago, I wouldn't know Lennart from a hole in the ground. He has a history with projects. Someone suggested he may not have started Pulse, I don't know. As far as I know, there are still problems with Pulse. I will not install Pulse on any system I set up, and if someone wants me to take care of their Linux box, Pulse gets removed. He may not have started Avahi, I don't know. I disable avahi daemons and executables as a matter of course, for much more than 1 year. My beef with Avahi? For my LAN, I have 0 need. Why is it required? Chmod 640 and the problem is more or less gone. But I still have the useless downloads, which cuts into my bandwidth and possibly monthly allowance. I don't want to download stuff I don't want or need. I have no idea if "avahi" is finished? I read the Free Software/FOSS/Libre news a lot. And I have more than a decade. I didn't see news that init scripts are broken. With Respect To boot times, I would think moving to a specialised shell that had no interactive capability (such as Gnu Readline) might be a place to start. That the "shell" often had to invoke subshells to do things, to me might be a reason to try Perl to boot a system. Just as a trial, Perl is big. But once you get it up and running, it doesn't need to invoke inferior processes for many tasks, and is capable of starting binaries with calculated arguments. Do you have a reference on sysvinit maintainer having problems? I don't anticipate having time for a couple of months, but maybe after. Gord -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140302180946.7bcad2ab@newmain.materia
Re: Debian init choices
On 3/2/2014 18:44, Steve Litt wrote: > Hi all, > > I was just wondering something. How much effort would it take for me, > personally, just me, to make my Debian Stable start all its processes > with DJB's Daemontools. I know Daemontools, I understand it, I know how > to work with it and how to troubleshoot it. What I don't know is: > > 1) How to get the kernel to pass off control to Daemontools? init= parameter, or make /sbin/init Daemontools and Linux will boot that. > 2) How to know which processes get run after boot? daemontools is a collection of tools for managing UNIX services. supervise monitors a service. It starts the service and restarts the service if it dies. Setting up a new service is easy: all supervise needs is a directory with a run script that runs the service. [0] You will need the scripts of course. Might need to run them yourself or borrow from a distro that uses daemontools (are there any?) > 3) Can one start drivers with Daemontools? Er, what? I suppose you can write a daemontools init script that `insmod`s kernel driver modules. > 4) Would there be a performance or stability cost to doing this, other >than boot taking longer, which I don't care about that much? You are changing the init of your system. That is possibly one of the most unstable things you can do to a Linux system. Expect breakage. > > Please understand, I'm *not* suggesting this be incorporated in any > Linux distribution. I'm aware that if it were such an excellent idea, > other distros would be doing it this way already. > > Speaking just for myself, and possibly doing this just for myself, I > just find sysinit or whatever it's called, and upstart, to be a little > too black-boxy for my taste, and from what I read, systemd won't be > much different in that regard. > > Thanks, > > SteveT > > Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/ > Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance > > Replies inline. [0] - http://cr.yp.to/daemontools.html -- staticsafe -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5313d98e.2060...@staticsafe.ca
Re: Debian init choices
On 3/2/2014 20:23, staticsafe wrote: > You will need the scripts of course. Might need to run them yourself or > borrow from a distro that uses daemontools (are there any?) That would be "write them yourself". So much for proofreading.. -- staticsafe -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5313dcd9.4090...@staticsafe.ca
RE: Four people decided the fate of debian with systemd. Bad faith likely
-Original Message- From: ghaverla [mailto:ghave...@materialisations.com] Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2014 4:31 PM To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Four people decided the fate of debian with systemd. Bad faith likely On Sun, 02 Mar 2014 16:53:59 +1100 Scott Ferguson wrote: > > I disagree with the binaryness of > > systemd. > > Do you mean the *one* binary in systemd? I'm pretty sure the source > is available. As I understand things, one of the benefits of systemd is a fast boot process. As I only boot my computer once per year (or so), this is terribly important to me (sarcasm). My computer spends a lot of time doing BOINC. As I understand things, to speed up the boot process, all the script files get replaced with binary stuff. If there is a problem, you're hooped as you can't edit some text file to fix things. Along with this goes a more complicated PID=1. The guys at Bell Labs were all smart guys. Text files and simple PID=1 make a lot of sense. There are lots of people who like the idea of fast boot times. I think most of these people are looking for hibernation, not boot. > > But knowing Debian was going to change, I went looking for refuge, > > and things derived from Gentoo might be home, things derived from > > Slackware might be home. > > Choice is good. Fortunately it's one of the key benefits of Open > Source development. There is no choice, when we are informed that systemd will be the default in 8.0, when in unstable and testing systemd is already present and seemingly no way to remove it. Or rather there is a choice: your way or the highway. And my decision, was highway. Maybe things were presented wrong. Maybe things were not presented when they should have been. I have autism, and tend to take everything at face value. As I seen things, there was no choice. As things progress, I still see no choice, except the highway. Gord Remember when Thompson et al did the UNIX at BTL the computers were VERY slow (and VERY slow to boot) and also required boot relatively regularly. Larry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140302173102.611b7c4c@newmain.materia -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/002f01cf367e$f8db3b10$ea91b130$@netptc.net
Re: Four people decided the fate of debian with systemd. Bad faith likely
On 03/03/14 11:31, ghaverla wrote: > On Sun, 02 Mar 2014 16:53:59 +1100 > Scott Ferguson wrote: > >>> I disagree with the binaryness of >>> systemd. >> >> Do you mean the *one* binary in systemd? I'm pretty sure the source >> is available. > > As I understand things, one of the benefits of systemd is a fast boot > process. As I only boot my computer once per year (or so), this is > terribly important to me (sarcasm). Which is fine for you, and I can understand and appreciate that, for my own personal computers my sentiments are similar. However my business purposes involve meeting SLAs so reboots once or twice a year can cost a lot of money - so in those circumstances a few minutes makes a lot of difference. Perhaps that's not something you care about - or it's just convenient to ignore until your bank/phone/stockbroker/shopping is interrupted as a result. Perhaps you simply put your "needs" before those of others - assuredly inadvertently. Given the interest displayed by "home users", and those that develop for embedded platforms, in fast boot times, I suspect your needs aren't stereotypical of all the users that Debian The Universal Operating System seeks to support. > > As I understand things, I don't know what you have or haven't been reading - but it's likely not the same as me. The journaling component is binary. The source is available. > > The guys at Bell Labs were all smart guys. Yes. So were many of the Ancient Greek engineers - but none of them were able to predict either the technological or social and business requirements of today. They were smart - and they knew their limitations, hence you won't find them having made foolish predictions like the guy who declared "everything that can be invented already has been". I suspect when you were reading up on Unix development you skipped the history and aims of Multix. You do know the joke behind the naming of Unix right? Multix was meant to be able to do "everything" - but budget and time constraints led to *severe* compromises in the project aims. Unix is the result. Linux (and GNU) are not Unix, by design - not just for legal reasons - but because it doesn't scratch the itch. Compare pears with pears, not potatoes. > I think most of these people are looking for > hibernation, not boot. You *imagine*, not "think" (using reductive logic?). I'm sure your not a bully who forces your ideas onto those that do want fast boot instead of hibernation. Fast booting was not the sole criteria for which it was selected by Debian for the *Linux* kernel. Perhaps your 'understanding' was not based on reading the relevant documentation, discussions and debates? If you're uncertain as to why "users" (sometimes erroneously interpreted to mean *only* hobbyist consumers) don't have more "say" in the process the Debian Constitution is a good starting point on the road to a "knowledge-based understanding". I'm reasonably certain that directly or indirectly (corporate sponsored), developers do take "users" needs into account - and those concerns shape the decisions they make in Debian debates and discussions. Please excuse the terseness of my language - my time and writing skill is limited. I do appreciate you are not a shill/troll/saboteur - but your post is one of many the read like "Dear interweb, do my home work for me". > > >>> But knowing Debian was going to change, I went looking for refuge, >>> and things derived from Gentoo might be home, things derived from >>> Slackware might be home. >> >> Choice is good. Fortunately it's one of the key benefits of Open >> Source development. > > There is no choice, when we are informed that systemd will be the > default in 8.0, when in unstable and testing systemd is already present > and seemingly no way to remove it. Wait - didn't you just say you went looking and found Gentoo and Slackware? Is that not choice? Don't conflate Debian and "Open Source" - they are not synonyms. If you interpret choice to mean "I demand my choice be catered for" - then bully for you. The only thing stopping you from writing your own init/kernel/userland from scratch - or forking the work of others, is the misplaced belief that others *should* do it for you. That sounds as productive and fulfilling as pissing up a rope. I'm sorry you find the whole idea so upsetting. Truly. Overcome and adapt is the only suggestion I can make. Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5313e068.5000...@gmail.com
Re: Partial success and strange partial failure -was [Re: Physically have install DVD set. Want ISO's from which they came.]
On 2 March 2014 22:20, David wrote: On 2 March 2014 23:54, Thomas Schmitt wrote: > >> I would like to have more information about this "read ahead bug", but >> I cannot find a full bug report or similar technical discussion of it. > > [snip interesting information] Thank you again Thomas for sharing your knowledge! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAMPXz=o4GjfBsWT3jN-n5xjXpASRPE5wMHEYLTrbVTr=qe4...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Four people decided the fate of debian with systemd. Bad faith likely
On 3/2/2014 20:21, LOwens wrote: > > As I understand things, one of the benefits of systemd is a fast boot > process. As I only boot my computer once per year (or so), this is terribly > important to me (sarcasm). My computer spends a lot of time doing BOINC. > > As I understand things, to speed up the boot process, all the script files > get replaced with binary stuff. If there is a problem, you're hooped as you > can't edit some text file to fix things. Along with this goes a more > complicated PID=1. > > The guys at Bell Labs were all smart guys. Text files and simple PID=1 make > a lot of sense. There are lots of people who like the idea of fast boot > times. I think most of these people are looking for hibernation, not boot. sysvinit's script get replaced with unit files [0]. An example from my Arch Linux ARM system: [root@lasciel system]# cat multi-user.target.wants/ntpd.service [Unit] Description=Network Time Service After=network.target nss-lookup.target [Service] Type=forking PrivateTmp=true PIDFile=/run/ntpd.pid ExecStart=/usr/bin/ntpd -g -u ntp:ntp -p /run/ntpd.pid Restart=always [Install] WantedBy=multi-user.target Very much a text file. [0] - http://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.unit.html -- staticsafe -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5313e388.9000...@staticsafe.ca
Re: Check Update, Update and Port Blocking
This is an update on my post on 02/20. I got the "yellow triangle" icon again so I went into admin for my Wireless Gateway and reset the security level to intermediate or "typical". I then clicked on the icon and selected "check updates". The usual dialog box appeared and it started checking for updates. A text box then appeared entitled "Could not download all repository indices" with the following text: Failed to fetch ftp://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/dists/squeeze/contrib/i18n/Translation-en.bz2 Could not connect passive socket. [IP: 64.50.233.100 21] Failed to fetch ftp://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/dists/squeeze/contrib/i18n/Translation-en_US.bz2 Could not connect passive socket. [IP: 64.50.233.100 21] Failed to fetch ftp://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/dists/squeeze/main/i18n/Translation-en.bz2 Could not connect passive socket. [IP: 64.50.233.100 21] Some index files failed to download, they have been ignored, or old ones used instead. Are these servers still available or do I have a problem on my end? Thanks, -- Bill Wood -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1393813272.27707.7.camel@bills-debian
SOLVED: Re: Issue importing a large MYSQL database.
On Sat, 2014-03-01 at 23:41 +, Karl E. Jorgensen wrote: > Hi > > On Sat, Mar 01, 2014 at 01:33:44PM -0600, John W. Foster wrote: > > Yep this is Debian specific. I have a system running Debian Wheezy; up > > to date; AMD 6 core processor; 4GB ram. Terabytes of disk space. This > > computer is in my office, not a remote. I am trying to use command line > > instructions to restore/import a database that I exported a few weeks > > back from a remote server. I was able to do this on the remote server > > using command lines, but after finishing the import the server admins > > decided I was using too much of the VPS servers resources and shut it > > down with no notice.I decided to bring it in house again.The Database is > > 2.28 Gb & is from a Mediawiki site. I'm not using any GUI such as > > PhpMyAdmin, though I have those available. The php limitations will not > > allow it to finish using PhpMyAdmin or Mediawiki's import structures. > > Since I did this on a Debian remote host I figured no prob here. Not so. > > I logged in as root, not connected to the internet, to do the import. > > > > issued this command; > > mysql -v -u root -p MyDBName < MyDump.sql > > Looks pretty vanilla. No compression? Usually worth the trouble, but > this is obviously not causing the problem you're seeing. > > > put in root password, & watched some screen output that resembled the > > Matrix for 2 days. System was accidentally interrupted & quit. I > > restarted it and waited 2 more days, server just quit. > > If the server "just quit" (I assume without any error messages as you > do not list any) then there should be clues in mysql's log (usually > routed via syslog to /var/log/daemon.log). > > I have been batting something similar with the mysql client - also > suffering under long-running import jobs: Re-sizing the terminal > window seems to cause the mysql client to die. Just like that. REALLY > annoying. I suspect that is http://bugs.mysql.com/bug.php?id=62578 I suspect that was part of the issue > > Now for the differences; > > On my remote server I created a completely empty database then did the > > import. Then reinstalled the upgraded Mediawiki and managed it as a > > mediawiki upgrade. Here I tried to use the existing installation which > > was new and do the restore as an upgrade. Now this is my question; Any > > one know why this doesn't work. > > Which errors/symptoms do you see? well there were no error logs at all. I now have that fixed by editing mysql config files. seems that was another thing I neglected & the output helped me isolate the issue. I was trying to "import" a "dump" file. Basically using the wrong command syntax. http://www.lullabot.com/blog/news/importexport-large-mysql-databases this gave me the correct tools and a working solution: Thanks to the authors for posting this!! > > > I'm now trying the new empty db here to > > see if I can get it to work. However even if I do, i want tosolve this > > issue so I don't repeat it. There are some serious benefits to restoring > > to a populated database that I want to preserve. Also I have > > successfully used PhpMyAdmin to do that with much smaller databases. > > There are faster ways of copying MySQL databases about - if > /var/lib/mysql is on a LVM logical volume, you can create a snapshot > and copy *that* across (the resulting instance will do crash recovery > upon startup). Similiar things can probably be achieved with btrfs > subvolume snapshots or zfs - although those file systems would > probably not be your first choice to store a database on. > > Hope this helps -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1393810721.22354.5.ca...@beast.johnwfoster.com
debian instalacion en VIT M2421
Dear friends. would like to know if I can install Debian on a notebook (laptop) called VIT M2421. These are assembled in Venezuela, come with Canaima (Linux) and windows manufacturing. But CD both drivers lost me, I found one for windows 7 from the page manufacturer. But I want to have is Debian. Install Ubuntu once again, but did not find the way to the Wifi worked. Technical Specifications: . Intel Core i3-2350M 2.3G . Memory RAM 2 GB(DDR3) . Screen 14" WXGA (1366x768) with Web Cam . Integrated Video . Hard Drive 320 GB(SATA) . DVD-RW (8X DVD) . Sound and Microphone Incorporated . Wireless Card 802.11 b/g/n . Network Card 10/100/1000 . with Bluetooth . SD Card Reader Controllers in Windows 7: Display Adapters : Intel (R) HD Graphics 3000 Network Adapters: Realtek PCIe GBE Family Controller Realtek RTL8188CE Wireless LAN 802,11n COMBO PCI-E NIC Controllers : Intel (R) Mobile Express Chipcet SATA AHCI Controller -- Ing. Kleiber Toledo
Re: debian instalacion en VIT M2421
Of course you can, those laptops comes (sometimes) with Canaima Linux 4 which is a Debian 7 based distro. Please register and ask on the Canaima support list: http://listas.canaima.softwarelibre.gob.ve/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/soporte After trying this and other googled tutorials: http://kimberling146.blogspot.com/2013/01/configuracion-de-la-laptop-vit-2421.html
Re: Proposal - preserve freedom of choice of init systems - Linux IS about CHOICE
Matthias Urlichs, Why should we believe you or the bullshit excuses givenin the article?The fact is, last year none of this crap was needed.Now it suddenly is.Furthermore gnome stole libgtk from the gimp project recentlyand then they made an incompatable "libgtk" 3.0.And now they're requiring all these bullshit daemons, and systemd.This is a political coup. We are being lead by the nose.Notice the arguments from the gnome and systemd people are always the sameacross all forums, for years."It is for your own good""You must join the modern era"They know better than us and we must join.Over and over again for the past year or two.I think these are the same people.Fake personas, or directed by their employers.They should be thrown out, we should recongise them for what they are.Real, traditional linux includessysv or bsd style init (or openrc).libgtk2 (not 3). gnome2 (not 3).And no systemd.We should also take heed of Snowden's documents which show thatthe United States government, which is an evil force that blows up and burns alive little girls and boys in afghanistaniraq and elsewhere, had and has a program to subvert technologyand software projects everywhere.Systemd and its shills are likely part of this.They should be thrown out of our community distributions.Pretty much anything by redhat is harmful nowadays.And anyone associated. Washington DC's Largest FREE Email service. ---> http://www.DCemail.com ---> A Washington Online Community Member --->http://www.DCpages.com
Re: Proposal - preserve freedom of choice of init systems - Linux IS about CHOICE
Yes, by all means we should ignore the fake personas, Mr. Natural Linux, whoever you are. On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 7:25 PM, Natural Linux wrote: > Matthias Urlichs, Why should we believe you or the bullshit excuses given > in the article? > > The fact is, last year none of this crap was needed. > Now it suddenly is. > Furthermore gnome stole libgtk from the gimp project recently > and then they made an incompatable "libgtk" 3.0. > > And now they're requiring all these bullshit daemons, and systemd. > > This is a political coup. We are being lead by the nose. > Notice the arguments from the gnome and systemd people are always the same > across all forums, for years. > > "It is for your own good" > "You must join the modern era" > They know better than us and we must join. > Over and over again for the past year or two. > > I think these are the same people. > Fake personas, or directed by their employers. > > They should be thrown out, we should recongise them for what they are. > > Real, traditional linux includes > sysv or bsd style init (or openrc). > libgtk2 (not 3). > gnome2 (not 3). > > And no systemd. > > We should also take heed of Snowden's documents which show that > the United States government, which is an evil force that > blows up and burns alive little girls and boys in afghanistan > iraq and elsewhere, had and has a program to subvert technology > and software projects everywhere. > > Systemd and its shills are likely part of this. > They should be thrown out of our community distributions. > Pretty much anything by redhat is harmful nowadays. > And anyone associated. > > > > -- > Washington DC's Largest FREE Email service. ---> http://www.DCemail.com---> A > Washington Online Community Member ---> > http://www.DCpages.com >
Re: Proposal - preserve freedom of choice of init systems
"Clearly such blatent politicking tarnishes that respect, and I'd imagine" "this is becoming a popular point of view." " "Cheers," " Paul" Says the systemd camp, which uses politics in every fight it wages (and it usually wins). Using the tech-ctte to change the OS in a fundamental way itself is an abuse of power, in an improper venue created to decide disagreements among package maintainers, not to go around everyone's backs and make sweeping changes to the core of debian linux. I think Ian even pointed out that the technical committe was the improper venue. Also I read all the emails, everyone said that a GR with more than 50 percent vote should be able to override said decision. Then systemd won 4 votes to 4, and now the systemd camp opposes anyone holding a general resolution and is trying to stall and not allow such a thing to be called. Pulling the ladder up after you've achived your improper victory (through politics). Note from whom the systemd camp derives their salarys and income. But yea, anyone who stands up against systemd is a troll, or dissapointing. Four people get to decide what operating system debian is. Four. And we have to accept that for some reason. >Ian, I'm extremely disaspointed in this childish behavior of trying to >insert a malicious trap-door to a decision. > >I'm *EXTREMELY* disaspointed in this. > >I'm CC'ing DAM. > >This is, at minimum: > > 1) A abuse of power (inserting a backdoor in a decision) > *snip* _ Washington DC's Largest FREE Email service. ---> http://www.DCemail.com ---> A Washington Online Community Member ---> http://www.DCpages.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140302192748.52ada...@m0048140.ppops.net
[solved] Re: Jessie almost freezes every several minutes
On 02/03/14 12:31 AM, Gary Dale wrote: On 01/03/14 06:26 PM, Tom Furie wrote: On Sat, Mar 01, 2014 at 06:11:42PM -0500, Gary Dale wrote: BTW: there is something more than just KDE since I didn't get a slowdown when I tried it with a new user without having the raid array /home. The differences besides the raid array are: - new user configuration with almost no files - no nfs shares mounted (usually have a dozen shares mounted) - no icedove accounts (usually have a half-dozen e-mail accounts checked every 10 minutes) - no kontact calendar, etc. (but kontact was running). From what you've said so far my suspicions would lie with RAID or NFS. What are the symptoms with a new user on raid /home but no NFS mounts? What are the symptoms with a new user on non-raid /home and NFS mounts? Cheers, Tom Probably with NFS. umounting all the shares fixed the problem, although I had to shut down icedove as I keep my mail on a network share. Come to think about it, the problem may have started when I switched from cifs to nfs to fix a problem I was having with icedove having corrupted indexes (therefor not showing new mail arriving in folders until the index was rebuilt, and showing read messages as unread). I'll try to see how few shares cause the problem... I've been running with 4 nfs shares (reorganized the shares to group a lot of them into 1) and things are great. It seems that nfs really doesn't like very many shares on the client. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53140f7a.2010...@torfree.net
Re: Proposal - preserve freedom of choice of init systems - SysV is FINE.
System V is NOT hard to "maintain"
The scripts were written YEARS ago. They're fine. They do NOT need to be
changed.
Debian SysV has concurrent boot aswell.
Systemd is a poison apple. 200k lines of unaudited root privlege code. A
consulting
service to go along with this new _operating system_
Here's an under 100 line init with concurrent boot:
#include
#include
int main()
{
sigset_t set;
int status;
if (getpid() != 1) return 1;
sigfillset(&set);
sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK, &set, 0);
if (fork()) for (;;) wait(&status);
sigprocmask(SIG_UNBLOCK, &set, 0);
setsid();
setpgid(0, 0);
return execve("/etc/rc", (char *[]){ "rc", 0 }, (char *[]){ 0 });
}
>/etc/rc is a shell script
>syslogd && getty ; udev ; network-config ; sshd & cron & nginx
see how much bullsht systemd is.
_
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Washington Online Community Member --->
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Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140302192648.52ada...@m0048140.ppops.net
Re: Four people decided the fate of debian with systemd. Bad faith likely
On Mon, 03 Mar 2014 12:52:40 +1100 Scott Ferguson wrote: > You *imagine*, not "think" (using reductive logic?). I'm sure your > not a bully who forces your ideas onto those that do want fast boot > instead of hibernation. Did you really need to send this? The entire note, not just this snippet. Gord -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140302230029.3e560c2d@newmain.materia
Firmware stuff - was systemd fight
On Sun, 2 Mar 2014, y...@marupa.net wrote: Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2014 03:05:20 From: y...@marupa.net To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Four people decided the fate of debian with systemd. Bad faith likely Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2014 19:21:09 + (UTC) Resent-From: debian-user@lists.debian.org On Sunday, March 02, 2014 01:28:57 PM Doug wrote: On 03/02/2014 02:02 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 02/03/14 16:53, y...@marupa.net wrote: On Sunday, March 02, 2014 04:25:13 PM Scott Ferguson wrote: On 02/03/14 11:28, Ralf Mardorf wrote: On Sun, 2014-03-02 at 10:55 +1100, Scott Ferguson wrote: The only arguments I've seen against systemd, at least in this thread is either "it's change, and change is evil" and "Red Hat/Lennart did it, so it must be bad." I think a lot of the resistance seems grounded in an irrational hatred of corporate involvement in Linux. IT's VERY irrational given that a huge portion, if not most of, the kernel itself is corporate code from companies like Red Hat, IBM, Intel, Motorola, Google, HP, and even Microsoft... A significant portion of the drivers in the kernel tree are, themselves, provided by the company that made the hardware in the first place. Drivers for Intel GPUs on Linux ARE the official Intel-provided driver and are part of the tree. Strip away all corporate contributions and support and Linux really IS a hobby OS no one can use for anything. Conrad Apart from the systemd fight stuff, I am wondering, in the context of the above message content, why a spearate firmware distribution of Debian Linux, needs to exist, rather than the firmware being included in the offical Debian version. Also, and I do not know how applicable this is, to what is happening, I wonder why Debian does not provide backward compatibility with previous versions of Debian; why provision is not made, to allow software that runs on Debian 5, to run on Debian 6 and Debian 7. As a single example, I have a multifunction printer, of which, the multifunctionality worked with Debian 5. Now, it is only a laser printer, running with Debian 6 - to use it to scan, I have to scan to a USB drive, and then copy the files to the computer, as Debian 6 (and, I believe, similarly, Debian 7) does not provide for the device to wotk with it, other than using a printer driver that is not for the particular model range, and, losing all other interfaced functionality. Surely, it must be possible, to provide backward compatibility, to allow software that ran on earlier versions of Debian, to run on a current stable version? -- Bret Busby Armadale West Australia .. "So once you do know what the question actually is, you'll know what the answer means." - Deep Thought, Chapter 28 of Book 1 of "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: A Trilogy In Four Parts", written by Douglas Adams, published by Pan Books, 1992 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/alpine.deb.2.00.1403031345360.14...@bret-dd-workstation.busby.net
Re: Firmware stuff - was systemd fight
On 03/03/2014 12:56 AM, Bret Busby wrote:Debian; why provision is not made, to allow software that runs on Debian 5, to run on Debian 6 and Debian 7. As a single example, I have a multifunction printer, of which, the multifunctionality worked with Debian 5. Now, it is only a laser printer, running with Debian 6 - to use it to scan, I have to scan to a USB drive, and then copy the files to the computer, as Debian 6 (and, I believe, similarly, Debian 7) does not provide for the device to wotk with it, other than using a printer driver that is not for the particular model range, and, losing all other interfaced functionality. Surely, it must be possible, to provide backward compatibility, to allow software that ran on earlier versions of Debian, to run on a current stable version? -- Bret Busby Armadale West Australia .. I'm not running Debian at the moment, but do you have XSane available to you? It would seem that XSane is smart enough to scan without any other drivers--at least it seems to do so with my Epson WP-4530 all-in-one. I'm pretty sure that I didn't install the Epson driver for it, but it scans fine. --doug -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/531429b2.3030...@optonline.net
Re: Partial success and strange partial failure -was [Re: Physically have install DVD set. Want ISO's from which they came.]
On Du, 02 mar 14, 12:30:54, Thomas Schmitt wrote: > Hi, > > > On Sb, 01 mar 14, 14:38:14, Richard Owlett wrote: > > > root@minimal-squeeze:/home/richard# dd if=/dev/cdrom bs=2048 > > > count=1939608 of=/home/richard/myiso1.iso conv=notrunc > > > [...] > > > root@minimal-squeeze:/home/richard# dd if=/home/richard/myiso1.iso > > > bs=2048 count=1939608 of=/dev/sdb conv=notrunc > > Andrei POPESCU wrote: > > > Not sure if this makes a differences, but why the count= and conv= ? > > To keep things simple, could you please retry with > >cp /home/richard/myiso1.iso /dev/sdb > > Both copy gestures for /dev/sdb are equivalent and should be ok. Yes, but I'd rather know :) > The conv=1939608 in the first dd command is necessary, if the MD5 > of the resulting .iso file shall match the published MD5 of the > Debian .iso. Most DVD types would return more bytes after the end > of the ISO filesystem. I'm aware of the issue (though I don't even try to understand all the internals). > Whatever method was used, the MD5 sum of the resulting copy can be > determined by: > > dd if=/dev/sdb bs=2048 count=1939608 | md5sum - Hmm, I thought the 'count=' stuff was only needed for CD-ROMs. Again, I prefer to keep things simple and would rather use just: md5sum /dev/sdb > and should match the published MD5 of the Debian ISO image. Yes, but I'd rather know, which is why I prompted Richard for the md5sums ;) Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Four people decided the fate of debian with systemd. Bad faith likely
On Du, 02 mar 14, 17:18:39, ghaverla wrote: > This isn't properly replied to. I am new to Claws, and I have no time > to figure out gpg signing. Close enough (i.e. the attributions are right as far as I can tell) ;) > On Sun, 2 Mar 2014 11:56:22 +0200 > Andrei POPESCU wrote: > > > On Sb, 01 mar 14, 20:03:54, ghaverla wrote: > > > > > > But the fact there are no options is what bothers me. > > > > There are options. Even if Canonical will be pulling the plug on udev > > there is still OpenRC. The maintainer could use more help though. > > I looked in Debian a week or so ago. OpenRC wasn't even in > experimental. Either I looked wrong, or it has only recently been > added. I know OpenRC is at Gentoo (that where it came from, as I > understand things). According to the PTS it's been in experimental since 2014-01-03 and in sid (unstable) since 2014-02-28. http://packages.qa.debian.org/o/openrc.html > I don't understand Canonical pulling plug on udev. Pulling plug on > upstart makes sense, pulling plug on systemd makes sense. Sorry for that, meant upstart, wrote udev :( Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
