Re: Vim colour syntax

[Chris Bannister]

On Sat, Feb 03, 2007 at 08:53:27PM -0500, Stephen wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 12:31:29AM + or thereabouts, Liam O'Toole wrote:
> > On Sat, 3 Feb 2007 01:44:18 -0500
> > Stephen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > > Hello Friends:
> > > 
> > > After upgrading to Etch, vim doesn't show colour syntax anymore.
> > > 
> > > I've checked all the places I can find a vimrc and/or .vimrc,
> > > ensuring that each has 'syntax on'. Still, I'm not getting syntax
> > > colouring.
> > > 
> > > Any ideas?
> > > 
> > 
> > In my case I add the line 'syntax on' to  /etc/vim/vimrc, and it works
> > for all users. What happens if you issue the command ':syntax on'
> > during a vim session? Does it work then?
> 
> Liam, unfortuantely no.

What type of file are you trying to edit? What error message do you get?
Is this with a clean .vimrc file?

-- 
Chris.
==
Don't forget to check that your /etc/apt/sources.lst entries point to 
etch and not testing, otherwise you may end up with a broken system once
etch goes stable.


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Re: No sound in Thinkpad Z61M after configuring ALSA -RESOLVED

[Chris Bannister]

On Sat, Feb 03, 2007 at 04:48:00PM +, Anthony Campbell wrote:
> Just to round off this saga for anyone who's been following it: I tried
> Ubuntu and what do you know: sound works! As an added bonus, so does the
> built-in wireless. So I shall have to install Ubuntu (well, at least is
> is more or less Debian ...)

There should be a way of finding out what the difference is which causes
it to work. Built-in wireless doesn't work on Debian? Is there a clue in
the config files (whatever they may be...)?

A writeup on how to use a working distro to configure a non working
distro would be good.

-- 
Chris.
==
Don't forget to check that your /etc/apt/sources.lst entries point to 
etch and not testing, otherwise you may end up with a broken system once
etch goes stable.


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Re: Vim colour syntax

[breeze50]

2007/2/5, Chris Bannister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

On Sat, Feb 03, 2007 at 08:53:27PM -0500, Stephen wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 12:31:29AM + or thereabouts, Liam O'Toole wrote:
> > On Sat, 3 Feb 2007 01:44:18 -0500
> > Stephen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Friends:
> > >
> > > After upgrading to Etch, vim doesn't show colour syntax anymore.
> > >
> > > I've checked all the places I can find a vimrc and/or .vimrc,
> > > ensuring that each has 'syntax on'. Still, I'm not getting syntax
> > > colouring.
> > >
> > > Any ideas?
> > >
> >
> > In my case I add the line 'syntax on' to  /etc/vim/vimrc, and it works
> > for all users. What happens if you issue the command ':syntax on'
> > during a vim session? Does it work then?
>
> Liam, unfortuantely no.

What type of file are you trying to edit? What error message do you get?
Is this with a clean .vimrc file?

--
Chris.
==
Don't forget to check that your /etc/apt/sources.lst entries point to
etch and not testing, otherwise you may end up with a broken system once
etch goes stable.


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I think the version you installed is vim-tiny, it don't include
[syntax] function.


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Re: Removing desktop environments

[Marcus Blumhagen]

On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 11:04:45PM -0500, cga2000 wrote:
> Is there any way I can have debian help me figure out if there is stuff
> that should be removed such as libraries that nothing uses -- naturally
> I did not remove a single library myself. 
> 
> I ran "deborphan -z" but at a glance it looks like it does not add up to
> more than 20-30Meg .. so I might as well leave well alone.

You can try some additional search modifiers of deborphan. Excerpt
from "man deborphan":

-a, --all-packages
  Check all the packages, instead of only those in the
  libs section. Best used (if at all used) in
  combination with  --priority. This option 
implies
  --show-section.
-p, --priority=PRIORITY
  Show only those packages with a priority equal to,
  or greater than PRIORITY. PRIORITY may be in 
the
  range of 1-5, or one of required, important, 
standard,
  optional, extra. Default value for PRIORITY 
is 2 (important).

But that's about all I can tell you about deborphan, since I haven't
used it for a long time.

Also debfoster2aptitude (provided by debfoster) might be of interest
for you. debfoster2aptitude because debfoster is deprecated by
aptitude, but this way you have can migrate your debfoster decision to 
aptitude. It can be run in interactive mode in a shell.  It will then ask 
you question about the installed packages, whether you intend to keep them 
or to remove or purge them (default is to purge, but can be overridden by 
setting "RemoveCmd = apt-get remove" /etc/debfoster.conf) A closer look 
into the manpage of debfoster provides you with some more information on 
fine tuning the behaviour when deciding which packages to consider for its 
questioning, i.e.:

debfoster2aptitude --option UseRecommends=no --mark-only

will also try to purge packages which actually are only
recommended by another installed package (by default debfoster
considers recommended packages as real dependencies. And wouldn't 
purge immediately after finishing asking questions. This is only a 
little
safety net.

Important Notice!:

Beware of the keys you press in interactive mode! Since it will be a 
long
game of question and answer, and you definitely don't want to
press "q" after answering 100+ questions. If you get tired of
answering you can postpone the other questions by pressing "x",
which will save your answers before exit.


If you use apt-get, then "debfoster" is the command to use, but I'd
really suggest using aptitude. This way you get aptitude to know which
packages are really programs you want and which ones are dependencies,
that can be removed, once there is no other package depending on it.


Regards
Marcus


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Re: No sound in Thinkpad Z61M after configuring ALSA -RESOLVED

[Anthony Campbell]

On 05 Feb 2007, Chris Bannister wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 03, 2007 at 04:48:00PM +, Anthony Campbell wrote:
> > Just to round off this saga for anyone who's been following it: I tried
> > Ubuntu and what do you know: sound works! As an added bonus, so does the
> > built-in wireless. So I shall have to install Ubuntu (well, at least is
> > is more or less Debian ...)
> 
> There should be a way of finding out what the difference is which causes
> it to work. Built-in wireless doesn't work on Debian? Is there a clue in
> the config files (whatever they may be...)?
> 
> A writeup on how to use a working distro to configure a non working
> distro would be good.
> 

That would be nice.

When I was doing the Debian installation via the netinst CD (latest
version, 3.1.r4) it tried, but failed, to connect to the internet via
the wireless link. I had to use a pcmcia card for a link.

I must say that I'd been a bit dismissive of Ubuntu previously,
supposing it was a prettified version of Debian for refugees from
Windows. Now that I've actually used it I find it a lot better than
that. In fact, I've managed to configure it so that it more or less
works like Debian (using Mutt instead of Evolution, Wajig instead of
Synaptic, my favourite Icewm, etc.).

Anthony

-- 
Anthony Campbell - [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Microsoft-free zone - Using Linux Gnu-Debian
http://www.acampbell.org.uk (blog, book reviews, 
on-line books and sceptical articles)


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Re: OT: sponge burning!

[Paul Walsh]

Paul Johnson wrote:
> s. keeling wrote:
> 
>> Andrew Sackville-West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>>  as has already been said, natural sponges, having protien content,
>>>  would surely have some reaction in a microwave. That said, we all know
>>>  that 1) there's nothing natural about the aforementioned "sponge" and
>> ...
>>
>> Hey!  Is that some kinda homophobic crack?
> 
> Consider this:  What's natural about a flourescent yellow, anthropomorphic
> yellow cubic anything?
> 
> 
> 
Does that phrase make you cubist? Whether he's a cube, sphere, cylinder doesn't 
matter. He's a sponge and has rights you
know.

Bring back "Muffin the Mule" and "Noggin the Nog"!

(To clarify: I am *not* referring to some deviant activities!)

:D

-- 
Paul Walsh


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Re: OT: sponge burning!

[Paul Walsh]

s. keeling wrote:

> Well, since you brought it up:
> 
>---
> The following poem is excerpted with permission from Lee Leitner's
> "Viewpoint" column which is featured in a bimonthly periodical for
> Prime INFORMATION users called INFOCUS magazine. The original authors
> were Fred Bremmer and Steve Kroese of Calvin College & Seminary of
> Grand Rapids, MI.

Ye Gods! I haven't seen Prime INFORMATION &&|| InfoBASIC mentioned for YEARS!  
My first encounter with relational
databases was with it :-)
-- 
Paul Walsh


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Trouble with encrypted filesystems

[Dan H.]

Hello, it's me again:

After "solving" my troubles with transferring data between different
storage devices (see the recent thread "System freeze when copying
files" on this list, archived at
http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2007/02/msg00129.html) by using the
linux-image-2.6.18-486 kernel instead of the -k7 one (on a K7 machine),
I thought I'd finally be ready to take the next step with my new
portable USB drive: set up an encrypted partition on the USB disk to
transfer stuff between my home and office computer. I don't like the
idea of people getting their hands on my stuff should the disk get
stolen or lost.

Anyway, I used cryptsetup to setup a partition (is there a way to
somehow automate this, so that one doesn't have to use "cryptsetup
create ..." each time before mounting the disk?) and started dumping
data onto the disk. After few seconds: Hard freeze (system completely
dead, needed cold reboot, no logs). To locate the problem I set up an
encrypted partition on the local disk, to see if the problem is related
to cross-device data transfer. Same result.

Moreover I noticed that just having an encrypted partition mounted
--local or via USB-- will kill the system after a few minutes.

Sheesh, this is starting to get on my nerves. This machine, by the way,
has been running sarge for a long time (I set it up at about the time
when sarge became stable) without ever making trouble.

Hints, ideas, anyone?

--D.



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Re: Boot disk vs. LILO

[Kyle K. Chang]

Hi Steve,

Not sure if this is going to get to you or not.  It's Kyle from the old core
group.  Just wanted to connect and touch base and see if I can reach folks
from the old gang.

 

Kyle K Chang, Broker, ABR

C&C Realty Group, Inc. - LoftsNHomes.com

Direct Line:  312-373-7120

E-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 

Re: font problems

[Liam O'Toole]

On Mon, 5 Feb 2007 00:17:36 -0500
"Mike Polyakov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

[...]

> >Is this a bitmap font? Fontconfig (the font library used by GTK and
> >QT) ignores bitmap fonts by default. To change this, run
> >'dpkg-reconfigure fontconfig-config' as root and answer yes to the
> >question re. bitmap fonts. On sarge the command is 'dpkg-reconfigure
> >fontconfig'.
> 
> Hi,
> This is a pcf font and I think it is a bitmapped font. I ran
> dpkg-reconfigure fontconfig-config and answered yes to using bitmapped
> fonts. However this did not solve my problem and I still can't choose
> to use that font inside GVIM's font selected dialog. Any other ideas?
> Thanks.

Is the font seen by fontconfig at all? Check the output of the 'fc-list'
command. If the font appears there then it should be available to
other applications such as gedit. This should at least help you to
narrow down where the problem is.

-- 

Liam


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Re: Removing desktop environments (Beware! stupid post)

[Marcus Blumhagen]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 09:54:43AM +0100,  wrote:
> Also debfoster2aptitude (provided by debfoster) might be of interest
> for you. debfoster2aptitude because debfoster is deprecated by
> aptitude, but this way you have can migrate your debfoster decision to 
> aptitude. It can be run in interactive mode in a shell.  It will then ask 
> you question about the installed packages, whether you intend to keep them 
> or to remove or purge them (default is to purge, but can be overridden by 
> setting "RemoveCmd = apt-get remove" /etc/debfoster.conf) A closer look 
> into the manpage of debfoster provides you with some more information on 
> fine tuning the behaviour when deciding which packages to consider for its 
> questioning, i.e.:
> 
>   debfoster2aptitude --option UseRecommends=no --mark-only
> 
>   will also try to purge packages which actually are only
>   recommended by another installed package (by default debfoster
>   considers recommended packages as real dependencies. And wouldn't 
>   purge immediately after finishing asking questions. This is only a 
> little
>   safety net.
> 
> Important Notice!:
> 
>   Beware of the keys you press in interactive mode! Since it will be a 
> long
>   game of question and answer, and you definitely don't want to
>   press "q" after answering 100+ questions. If you get tired of
>   answering you can postpone the other questions by pressing "x",
>   which will save your answers before exit.
> 
> 
> If you use apt-get, then "debfoster" is the command to use, but I'd
> really suggest using aptitude. This way you get aptitude to know which
> packages are really programs you want and which ones are dependencies,
> that can be removed, once there is no other package depending on it.

EVEN MORE IMPORTANT NOTICE:

Beware of debfoster2aptitude, as it doesn't quite seem to work as
I have written. Actually while writing my previous mail I also once
startet debfoster2aptitude, but 1st it seems not to respect command
line options as the normal debfoster does, 2nd it immediatly wiped
out my package selections in aptitude (now all, even essential
packages are marked "auto" in aptitude, and an "aptitude dist-upgrade"
attempts to purge all packages marked "auto")

Hope you did not already go to action. I am terribly sorry that I have
posted this before having checked if it really works as I stated.

After some quick invocations of debfoster it seems to work fine.
But after some also quick reading it seems that debfoster does not
use a temporary file when running and instead writes directly to
the keeperfile, so you should backup your actual /var/lib/apt*
and /var/lib/debfoster before using debfoster. (But recalling the
OP I think this advise is superfluous) 
Regards
Marcus


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Re: Trouble with encrypted filesystems

[Florian Kulzer]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 10:31:19 +0100, Dan H. wrote:
> Hello, it's me again:
> 
> After "solving" my troubles with transferring data between different
> storage devices (see the recent thread "System freeze when copying
> files" on this list, archived at
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2007/02/msg00129.html) by using the
> linux-image-2.6.18-486 kernel instead of the -k7 one (on a K7 machine),
> I thought I'd finally be ready to take the next step with my new
> portable USB drive: set up an encrypted partition on the USB disk to
> transfer stuff between my home and office computer. I don't like the
> idea of people getting their hands on my stuff should the disk get
> stolen or lost.
> 
> Anyway, I used cryptsetup to setup a partition (is there a way to
> somehow automate this, so that one doesn't have to use "cryptsetup
> create ..." each time before mounting the disk?)

With your kernel version and udev, hal, dbus + pmount it should be
possible to just plug in the drive, wait a few seconds until udev
creates the device node and mount it normally with pmount (it will ask
for the passphrase). This requires that you use LUKS and device mapper,
which is, I think, the recommended way nowadays, especially since it is
fully integrated into cryptsetup (starting with Etch).

>  and started dumping
> data onto the disk. After few seconds: Hard freeze (system completely
> dead, needed cold reboot, no logs). To locate the problem I set up an
> encrypted partition on the local disk, to see if the problem is related
> to cross-device data transfer. Same result.
> 
> Moreover I noticed that just having an encrypted partition mounted
> --local or via USB-- will kill the system after a few minutes.

Can you post the exact commands you use to initialize the crypto device,
to create its file system and to mount/access it?

-- 
Regards,
  Florian


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Re: ipw2200 on linux image 2.6.18

[Surachai Locharoen]

2007/2/4, Michael Pobega <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


Surachai Locharoen wrote:
> I found this error in syslog
>
> **Feb  4 16:24:20 surachai kernel: usb 2-1: USB disconnect, address 4
> Feb  4 16:24:24 surachai kernel: usb 2-1: new full speed USB device
> using uhci_hcd and address 5
> Feb  4 16:24:24 surachai kernel: usb 2-1: configuration #1 chosen from
> 1 choice
> Feb  4 16:24:25 surachai kernel: ipw2200: Failed to send SCAN_ABORT:
> Command timed out.
> Feb  4 16:24:26 surachai kernel: ipw2200: Failed to send CARD_DISABLE:
> Command timed out.
>
> and this from dmesg
> ipw2200: Intel(R) PRO/Wireless 2200/2915 Network Driver, 1.2.0mq
> ipw2200: Copyright(c) 2003-2006 Intel Corporation
> ipw2200: Detected Intel PRO/Wireless 2200BG Network Connection
> ipw2200: Detected geography ZZR (14 802.11bg channels, 0 802.11achannels)
> ipw2200: Failed to send SCAN_ABORT: Command timed out.
> ipw2200: Failed to send CARD_DISABLE: Command timed out.
> ipw2200: Failed to send CARD_DISABLE: Command timed out.
> ipw2200: Failed to send SCAN_ABORT: Command timed out.
> ipw2200: Failed to send CARD_DISABLE: Command timed out.
>
> I cannot use wireless card.
>
> Karn
> --
>
Did your wireless card work in the past, or is this a fresh install?



I have to install wireless-tools package.

Thank you :)
Karn

Problem connecting to Wifi network

[Justin Hartman]

Hi guys

I'm having difficulty connecting to my wireless network at the office.
My wifi card and settings work perfectly for my home network as I use
a 64-bit wep key however the office is slightly different.

The network I am battling to connect to uses TKIP for data encryption
and WPAPSK for network authentication and my interfaces file looks
like this:-

auto eth0
iface eth0 inet dhcp
wireless-essid crcwifi
wireless-key s:password

An iwspy on eth0 picks up the wifi network but trying to connect to it
doesn't work. No dhcp clients can be picked up and my IP allocation is
not allocated.

Any ideas?
--
Regards
Justin Hartman
PGP Key ID: 102CC123


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Re: re-partition my hard disk

[Michael Pobega]

rocky wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> On my PC I have 2 hard disks. The primary one has Windows XP
> installed. Afterwards, I decide to learn Linux. So I got another Hard
> disk and installed Debian stable successfully on it. Now, I'm thinking
> of make my PC serve as the file back up server for my home office.  I
> will install backuppc in my debian stable. Till now my secondary hard
> disk is not partitioned at all. I'm thinking of partition the hard
> disk so I can allocate a separate portion solely for backuppc. Can any
> of you give me some hints on how to accomplish this please? Does the
> partition have the risk of wipping my debian stable system out? How
> can I prevent this please?
>
> Thanks a lot in advance!
>
> Rocky
>
>
>   
It's actually a lot easier than you'd think. All you need is the gparted
LiveCD (Unless you're familiar with cfdisk, which is a pretty hard to
use terminal application), boot into the LiveCD and run /gksudo
gparted/. From the LiveCD you should make your Debian partition (Which
should be the primary and only partition next to swap) smaller, and with
the unallocated space you should create a FAT32 filesystem for data
storage (Since FAT32 can be written to from both Linux and Windows,
FAT32 is the best choice).

If you want to write to the partition from Debian you're going to have
to /apt-get install dosfstools/, which enables you to write to a FAT32
filesystem from within Debian.

There is little risk of your Debian install breaking, and if something
happens to your FAT32 partition it most likely *won't* affect your Ext
(Debian) partition.

Useful links:
http://gparted.sf.net/
Specifically: http://gparted.sourceforge.net/livecd.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_system
http://psychocats.net/ubuntu/partitioning


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debian/unstable+KDE: screensaver/lock session not working

[Bruno . Voigt]

Hi all,

I have a debian/unstable box running KDE which gets nearly daily patched.
For some months ago the screensaver and KDE kicker lock session button 
stopped working.

manual starting of xscreensaver & running xscreensaver-command -lock 
works.

How does the kdscreensaver & session lock mechanism work in detail?
How do teh different components interact?
How can I trace its execution path and check if everything is in place?
What config files are used?

Purging and reinstalling these packages didn't help:

ii  kscreensaver 3.5.5-1  additional 
screen savers released with KDE
ii  kscreensaver-xsavers 3.5.5-1KDE 
hooks for standard xscreensavers
ii  xscreensaver 4.24-5  Automatic 
screensaver for X
ii  xscreensaver-gl  4.24-5  GL(Mesa) screen 
hacks for xscreensaver

TIA, Brun


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Re: debian/unstable+KDE: screensaver/lock session not working

[Michael Pobega]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Hi all,

I have a debian/unstable box running KDE which gets nearly daily patched.
For some months ago the screensaver and KDE kicker lock session button 
stopped working.


manual starting of xscreensaver & running xscreensaver-command -lock 
works.


How does the kdscreensaver & session lock mechanism work in detail?
How do teh different components interact?
How can I trace its execution path and check if everything is in place?
What config files are used?

Purging and reinstalling these packages didn't help:

ii  kscreensaver 3.5.5-1  additional 
screen savers released with KDE
ii  kscreensaver-xsavers 3.5.5-1KDE 
hooks for standard xscreensavers
ii  xscreensaver 4.24-5  Automatic 
screensaver for X
ii  xscreensaver-gl  4.24-5  GL(Mesa) screen 
hacks for xscreensaver


TIA, Brun


  
I hate turning down helping people, but if this is a problem with 
Unstable you should probably ask in the Bug Reports mailing list so that 
the developers can fix it and put it in the release of Etch.


Ask for having to run the programs manually, can't you just add it to 
your startup script? That's what I did with gsynaptics and it worked for me.



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debian rocks!

[Bruno Buys]

Just count one more happy debian user! Reinstalled yesterday, to switch 
from x86 sarge to amd64 etch. Everything went flawlessly.
Downloaded last netinst, booted it, hardware detected smoothly. The 
machine has two sound cards, both worked as before. I chose manual disk 
editing, reformatted both / and /usr/bin, left /backup and /home 
untouched. The new system was installed in like 15 min or less. Rebooted 
into new system, skipped tasksel completely, apt-get installed kde, 
x-window-system, xorg, and their fellows. No surprises. New kde found 
all my configs, got a desktop just identical to the previous. The only 
catch ins't debian related: vmware seems to not like my 
/usr/src/include/linux, and asks for a new linux/version.h. But i can 
live with that.
So, for now I can only thank the project for such a solid system. In the 
future, when I will be wealthier, I hope to donate regularly.




bruno
debian user and admirer


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Re: What UPS to buy

[Hugo Vanwoerkom]

Greg Folkert wrote:

On Sun, 2007-02-04 at 22:54 +, J.A. de Vries wrote:

On 2007-02-04 @ 08:45:38 (week 05) Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:


But how is their Linux support?
I would buy Tripp-Lite because it is readily available here in Mexico, 
but, again, how is the Linux support?

Hi all,

Thanks for all the input.

I agree with the advice not to skimp on the UPS. However in my case the
device is only needed because the "aardlekschakelaar" (in English earth
leakage cicruit breaker I believe) cuts the electricity. Not because the
power itself is gone, but because of some leakage current. Of course we
tried to find out why that is, but we haven't gotten any further than
pinpointing the room where the cause most likely is to be found. 


In this case it doesn't matter if the current is broken when I'm not at
home, because the server won't be up at those moments anyway. The UPS is
only meant to keep my main system running during the time I need to
switch the circuit breaker back on again. That should be within a few
minutes. For the few times the server is on when I'm gone it would be
nice to have auto shutdown and powerup.

I noticed most of you recommended APC, so that'll probably be the one I
go for. Any comments on their Powerchute software (I see it supports
Linux), or should I just skip it and use NUT?


NUT. Powerchute for Linux is CRAP. Unless they had "de-windows-ified"
it.



What's NUT?

Hugo






















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Re: What UPS to buy: a MGE Evolution 850 or an APC Smart-UPS 750?

[Hugo Vanwoerkom]

Ron Johnson wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 02/04/07 15:15, Douglas Allan Tutty wrote:

On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 01:49:47PM -0600, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:

Ron Johnson wrote:

On 02/04/07 07:59, Colin wrote:

J.A. de Vries wrote:

Hi,

Due to power outages at my home I want to buy an UPS for my SOHO server.
For my needs something between 700 and 1000VA should be enough. I'd like
to have auto shutdown and powerup and some monitoring facilities too.

After some Googling I am thinking of buying either an APC Smart-UPS 750
or a MGE Evolution 850. As far as I know APC is the "big brand" and it
certainly is the one that is the easiest to get around here. Their
Powerchute software seems to support Linux as well. 

Don't skimp on the UPS.  For a SOHO, get a 1000 or 1500.
Absolutely true. But it pain(s)/(ed) me that the UPS will cost equal to 
the entire system...

Only equal?  What other devices do you need to power during power
failures to keep your business operating?  Phone, phax, printer, copier?


fax, printer & copier should *never* be run from battery.  They draw
an *enormous* amount of power.  CRTs are in the same boat.  Don't
know about LCDs.

SOHO UPSs are not for running your desktop; they are for preserving
your state during a short power outage, and nicely shutting the
machine down during a longer outage.


Right. I only have the PC + external modem on UPS, not the monitors or 
anything else. Gives me 18 minutes on battery if the power goes.



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Re: What UPS to buy

[Hugo Vanwoerkom]

Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:

Greg Folkert wrote:

On Sun, 2007-02-04 at 22:54 +, J.A. de Vries wrote:

On 2007-02-04 @ 08:45:38 (week 05) Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:


But how is their Linux support?
I would buy Tripp-Lite because it is readily available here in 
Mexico, but, again, how is the Linux support?

Hi all,

Thanks for all the input.

I agree with the advice not to skimp on the UPS. However in my case the
device is only needed because the "aardlekschakelaar" (in English earth
leakage cicruit breaker I believe) cuts the electricity. Not because the
power itself is gone, but because of some leakage current. Of course we
tried to find out why that is, but we haven't gotten any further than
pinpointing the room where the cause most likely is to be found.
In this case it doesn't matter if the current is broken when I'm not at
home, because the server won't be up at those moments anyway. The UPS is
only meant to keep my main system running during the time I need to
switch the circuit breaker back on again. That should be within a few
minutes. For the few times the server is on when I'm gone it would be
nice to have auto shutdown and powerup.

I noticed most of you recommended APC, so that'll probably be the one I
go for. Any comments on their Powerchute software (I see it supports
Linux), or should I just skip it and use NUT?


NUT. Powerchute for Linux is CRAP. Unless they had "de-windows-ified"
it.



What's NUT?



Sorry. Found it.


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Re: debian/unstable+KDE: screensaver/lock session not working

[Florian Kulzer]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 12:58:52 +0100, Bruno Voigt wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I have a debian/unstable box running KDE which gets nearly daily patched.
> For some months ago the screensaver and KDE kicker lock session button 
> stopped working.
> 
> manual starting of xscreensaver & running xscreensaver-command -lock 
> works.
> 
> How does the kdscreensaver & session lock mechanism work in detail?

AFAIK, KDE does not use xscreensaver but provides its own screensaver
(and locking) functionality as a part of the "kdesktop" process (which
is normally started by kdeinit).

You can check if kdesktop is running with "ps -ef | grep [k]desktop".
You should see the process listed as "kdesktop [kdeinit]". (It is very
unlikely that kdesktop is not running when you have a KDE session, but
it does not hurt to check.)

> How do teh different components interact?
> How can I trace its execution path and check if everything is in place?

I don't know all the details, but I know that you should be able to lock
the screen under KDE with the following command:

dcop kdesktop KScreensaverIface lock

Maybe that will give you a helpful error message if it does not work;
also check ~/.xession-errors for anything related to the screensaver.

> What config files are used?

~/.kde/share/config/kdesktoprc

This configuration works for me:

$ awk '/\[ScreenSaver\]/,/^$/' ~/.kde/share/config/kdesktoprc
[ScreenSaver]
DPMS-dependent=false
Enabled=true
Lock=true
LockGrace=6
Saver=KRandom.desktop
Timeout=300

(You can run the same "awk ..." command to see the relevant part of your
 own configuration.)

You can change these settings in the KDE control center ("Appearance &
Themes > Screen Saver").

> Purging and reinstalling these packages didn't help:
> 
> ii  kscreensaver 3.5.5-1  additional 
> screen savers released with KDE
> ii  kscreensaver-xsavers 3.5.5-1KDE 
> hooks for standard xscreensavers
> ii  xscreensaver 4.24-5  Automatic 
> screensaver for X
> ii  xscreensaver-gl  4.24-5  GL(Mesa) screen 
> hacks for xscreensaver

I have the same packages installed. (I am currently on KDE 3.5.6 from
experimental, but I never had any problems with version 3.5.5-1 either.)

If all else fails you can create a new user and test if that user can
lock the screen normally. That will at least tell you if you have a
system-wide problem or one related to your regular user's configuration.

-- 
Regards,
  Florian


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Re: OT: sponge burning!

[hendrik]

On Fri, Feb 02, 2007 at 09:43:42PM -0600, John Hasler wrote:
> s. keeling writes:
> > We're really not sure what the poem actually is
> >  about. Here it goes:
>  
> ><>!*''#
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >!*'$_
> >%*<>#4
> >&)../
> >|{~~SYSTEM HALTED
>  
> 
> Yes, but what does it do when you run it?  It _is_ Perl, is it not?

Doesn't look like Perl to me.  Might be TECO, though.

-- hendrik


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Re: bug in etch: "iceweasel -safe-mode" segfaults. disabling pango corrects this.

[John Hasler]

Noah Dain writes:
> If I'm the only one in the world with the problem, big whoop.

It's still a bug even if no one else on this list is currently affected by
it.  Please report it.
-- 
John Hasler


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Re: bug in etch: "iceweasel -safe-mode" segfaults. disabling pango corrects this.

[Hugo Vanwoerkom]

Noah Dain wrote:

When I go to http://syscp-forum.org/ and scroll down the page,
iceweasel segfaults.  It does so even with a fresh ~/.mozilla and
running with "-safe-mode" option.  The crash happens immediately and
is 100% reproducible.

However, if I use env variable "MOZ_DISABLE_PANGO=1", iceweasel runs
as expected (no crash).  I got that tidbit from
http://www.debianhelp.org/node/3536/ which was posted to this list
before.  However, in this case there is no output indicating libpango.
Just the segfault mesage.

I think it should be noted that I am running iceweasel under KDE.
Also, the official Firefox2 release works fine.

platform is i386.

$ apt-cache policy iceweasel
iceweasel:
Installed: 2.0.0.1+dfsg-2



Not here.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ apt-cache policy iceweasel
iceweasel:
  Installed: 2.0.0.1+dfsg-2
  Candidate: 2.0.0.1+dfsg-2
  Version table:
 *** 2.0.0.1+dfsg-2 0
500 file: sid/main Packages
100 /var/lib/dpkg/status



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Re: Attracting newbies (Was Booting Debian/testing fails)

[hendrik]

On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 05:54:15PM -0500, Douglas Allan Tutty wrote:
> 
> I think that with proper documentation and presentation, it need not
> bring a "stupidity" to debian.  I think we are in the unique position of
> being able to grow our own good debian users out of BDUs.  By-the-way,
> we need a better name for such people.  If newbies are experienced *N*X
> people new to debian (maybe they should be debies), perhaps we need
> another model.

Ah!  Debian Debutant(e)s

-- hendrik


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Re: OT: sponge burning!

[John Hasler]

hendrik writes:
> Doesn't look like Perl to me.  Might be TECO, though.

You're right.  Much more like TECO.  Maybe a quotation from the first
version of Emacs?
-- 
John Hasler


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Re: Vim colour syntax

[Stephen]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 09:28:06PM +1300 or thereabouts, Chris Bannister wrote:

Hi Chris:

> What type of file are you trying to edit? What error message do you get?
> Is this with a clean .vimrc file?

Yes, the skeleton sample from the install, and I've been trying this primarily
on *.php files, but anything from my ~/.muttrc isn't showing colour syntax, all
of which were OK prior to my upgrade.

> Don't forget to check that your /etc/apt/sources.lst entries point to 
> etch and not testing, otherwise you may end up with a broken system once
> etch goes stable.

 Absolutely, but of course nothing to do with this vim issue I'm having.

-- 
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as a church-door; but 'tis enough, 'twill serve.
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Re: Problem connecting to Wifi network

[Wackojacko]

Justin Hartman wrote:

Hi guys

I'm having difficulty connecting to my wireless network at the office.
My wifi card and settings work perfectly for my home network as I use
a 64-bit wep key however the office is slightly different.

The network I am battling to connect to uses TKIP for data encryption
and WPAPSK for network authentication and my interfaces file looks
like this:-

auto eth0
iface eth0 inet dhcp
wireless-essid crcwifi
wireless-key s:password

An iwspy on eth0 picks up the wifi network but trying to connect to it
doesn't work. No dhcp clients can be picked up and my IP allocation is
not allocated.

Any ideas?


Do you have wpasupplicant installed.  If not you need this to connect to 
WPA secured networks.  If you have, then there are some useful examples 
in /usr/share/doc of how to achieve a connection.  You can even detail 
all of your networks in one configuration file and let wpasupplicant 
chose the right one.


HTH

Wackojacko


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Re: Vim colour syntax

[Stephen]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 04:21:16PM +0800 or thereabouts, breeze50 wrote:

> I think the version you installed is vim-tiny, it don't include
> [syntax] function.

Actually no, but I would have agreed with you earlier on in this thread, when I
installed vim-full. I guess you haven't bothered reading the entire thread.

You're not accurate regarding vim-tiny, you'll notice that it's capable of
colour syntax highlighting;

:/etc/apt# aptitude show vim-tiny

Package: vim-tiny
New: yes
State: not installed
Version: 1:7.0-122+1
Priority: important
Section: editors
Maintainer: Debian VIM Maintainers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Uncompressed Size: 1069k
Depends: vim-common (= 1:7.0-122+1), libc6 (>= 2.3.6-6), libncurses5 
(>= 5.4-5)
Provides: editor
Description: Vi IMproved - enhanced vi editor - compact version

Vim is an almost compatible version of the UNIX editor Vi.
Many new features have been added: multi level undo, syntax
highlighting, command line history, on-line help, filename
completion, block operations, folding, Unicode support, etc.

 This package contains a minimal version of vim compiled with no
 GUI and a small subset of features in order to keep small the
 package size. This package does not depend on the vim-runtime
 package, but installing it you will get its additional benefits
 (online documentation, plugins, ...).

So, perhaps the vim-full isn't what I needed, according to some earlier in the
thread. Seems like vim-tiny will do all that I need it for, without all the
bloat for the GUI which I don't use.

Thanks anyways.
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RE: mailx

[Andrew Critchlow]

This works, thanks!
 
I have one other question which I have searched the new and cannot find 
anything about this issue:
When a user logs into the debian box they get "You Have newmail"
For some reason there isn't a space in between 'new' and 'mail'.
 
Anyone know how to correct this?
 
 
Thanks



> Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 02:09:31 +0100> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 
> debian-user@lists.debian.org> Subject: Re: mailx> > Andrew <[EMAIL 
> PROTECTED]> writes:> > Hi everyone, I have configured exim4 and is using the 
> Maildir format> > to deliver messages. Problem is, I can't get the simple 
> mail (mailx)> > application to see this Maildir format?> > Install the GNU 
> version of mailx. It's in the `mailutils' package.> > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, 
> email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? 
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Re: Netinstall via bridge [SOLVED]

[celejar]

On 2/4/07, Douglas Allan Tutty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

[snip]


> You win :). I couldn't get a bridge working properly, so I connected
> laptop <-> lucy via a spare switch that I bought specifically for this
> purpose. I first tried a straight cable connection, hoping that NICs
> (a several year old Realtek card on lucy and an integrated Broadcom on
> the laptop) would support Auto-Crossover, but I couldn't get it to
> work; either one or both don't do Auto-Crossover, or I did something
> wrong. I didn't bother buying a crossover cable since I could get a
> new router / wireless AP / switch (with a [straight] CAT5 cable) for
> only $20 after rebate from Newegg (less if you have patience to lurk
> and hunt for the perfect bargain).
> I use shorewall, so to enable NAT I just added /etc/shorewall/masq
> with the single line "ath0 eth0", and modified the zones and  policy
> files appropriately. Voila, seamless net connectivity! You were right.
>

I'm glad it worked.

Doug.


For posterity, I'll add: I didn't use dhcp on either NIC, since that
would have caused havoc by changing the gateway and nameserver
information had I used the (new) router's dhcp server, and setting up
my own would have been far too much of a hassle. I just assigned each
NIC an ip address manually (192.168.1.100 / 101), and I copied one of
the nameservers from /etc/resolv.conf (populated by the dhcp server on
the original router, which in turn got it from the ISP) to the laptop.

Celejar


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Re: debian/unstable+KDE: screensaver/lock session not working

[Bruno . Voigt]

Florian Kulzer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb am 05.02.2007 
14:39:10:

> AFAIK, KDE does not use xscreensaver but provides its own screensaver
> (and locking) functionality as a part of the "kdesktop" process (which
> is normally started by kdeinit).
> 
> You can check if kdesktop is running with "ps -ef | grep [k]desktop".
> You should see the process listed as "kdesktop [kdeinit]". (It is very
> unlikely that kdesktop is not running when you have a KDE session, but
> it does not hurt to check.)

yes kdesktop [kdeinit] is there.

> > How do the different components interact?
> > How can I trace its execution path and check if everything is in 
place?
> 
> I don't know all the details, but I know that you should be able to lock
> the screen under KDE with the following command:
> 
> dcop kdesktop KScreensaverIface lock
> 
> Maybe that will give you a helpful error message if it does not work;
> also check ~/.xession-errors for anything related to the screensaver.

the above dcop invocation just returns immediately without output.
No output in .xsession-errors

> > What config files are used?
> 
> ~/.kde/share/config/kdesktoprc
> 
> This configuration works for me:
> $ awk '/\[ScreenSaver\]/,/^$/' ~/.kde/share/config/kdesktoprc
> [ScreenSaver]
> DPMS-dependent=false
> Enabled=true
> Lock=true
> LockGrace=6
> Saver=KRandom.desktop
> Timeout=300

I adjusted the section in my file to be the same.
It doesn't help.

> If all else fails you can create a new user and test if that user can
> lock the screen normally. That will at least tell you if you have a
> system-wide problem or one related to your regular user's configuration.

Lock Session doesn't work for a new user either.

So what global config shall I check next?

TIA,
Bruno


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Re: Determining character encoding for a given file

[Kim Christensen]

* Ron Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-01-31 06:58:16 -0600]:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On 01/31/07 02:33, Kim Christensen wrote:
> > * Vincent Lefevre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-01-30 12:49:00 +0100]:
> > 
> >> On 2007-01-30 06:40:52 -0500, Kevin Mark wrote:
> >>> On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 11:10:58AM +0100, Kim Christensen wrote:
>  This might not be debian specific, but does anyone know of a quick way
>  (hack/tool) to determine the encoding used for a given file?
> >>> apt-cache show recode
> >> How can you do that with recode?
> >>
> >>> apt-cache show enca
> >> enca is very limited. Alternatively, you have the command "file".
> > 
> > Thanks, this does exactly what I'm after!
> 
> Which one?  enca or file?

"file", sorry for that :-)

-- 
Kim Christensen
"I am Jack's broken heart."


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Re: Attracting newbies (Was Booting Debian/testing fails)

[Michael M.]

David Jardine wrote:

On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 05:54:15PM -0500, Douglas Allan Tutty wrote:

[...]
  

The Dreyfus Model of Sill Acquisition [1], describes skills acquisition
as passing through five levels:  novice, advanced beginner, competent,
proficient, and expert.


[...]
  

  I also
taught nursing where we take novices and turn them into advanced
beginners over the course of 4 years.  



Thanks, Doug!  That was most enlightening.  Five stages, four 
years per stage. I'd often wondered why I'd displayed no sign of 
competence in all my years with Debian, but I see that it won't 
be long now!  Mmm.  Or will it?


  


Indeed, in most respects with regard to Debian, I feel at most like an 
"advanced beginner," despite having used Debian for about four years 
now. There are certainly areas of all-around computer usage in which I'm 
"competent" and even "proficient," but not so much with regard to the 
specifics of Debian.


I think the issue people aren't addressing in this thread is one of 
goals. Most people who use Windows are not much more than novices or 
advanced beginners with respect to the intricacies of Windows operation. 
Part of the reason for that is simply that most people don't want to be. 
They want to be able to do what they want or need to do with a computer, 
they don't really care about the whys & wherefores of how the computer 
is carrying out the functions they want it to perform, nor about how 
Windows and Linux distros and OS X differ in their approaches to 
carrying out those functions.


If these are the people you're aiming at, then going on & on about the 
Social Contract, the philosophy of open source, the evils of proprietary 
formats, the importance of standards, etc., etc., is a waste of time. 
They don't care. They want to get their photos off their cameras. 
Frankly, I'm not sure any Linux distro, let alone Debian, is a good 
choice for these people -- Microsoft's and Apple's products do a pretty 
good job of meeting most of their needs and a great deal of what I see 
as the value proposition of an open-source OS would be lost on them.


It seems to me the target audience ought to be those interested in 
distros like Ubuntu, Linspire/Freespire, Mepis, openSuSE, Fedora, and so 
on. Debian still has a reputation as being too difficult for newbies -- 
a reputation it once deserved, and in some respects still does, 
particularly with regard to documentation that's easy to find and easy 
for those not technically inclined to parse. I used Mepis, then 
Libranet, then Ubuntu for awhile before I finally got the courage to try 
Debian, and when I finally did, I found that Debian really wasn't any 
more difficult than the others. What made the others easier to start 
with was their laser-like focus on desktop usage. They picked one thing 
and went with it; Debian, OTOH, is billed as "the universal operating 
system" -- appropriate for anything, particularly appropriate for 
nothing. That's the takeaway of such a message, anyway, and I'm not 
suggesting Debian change it. But if you want the novice user, then you 
have to be explicit about meeting that users' basic needs and 
expectations, and honest about what needs that user has that might not 
be met. I think the question the documentation needs to address 
(implicitly, anyway) is not "why Debian instead of Windows/OS X?," but 
"why Debian instead of Ubuntu/SuSE/Linspire/etc.?" Do that and I doubt 
you'd get too many users for whom Debian probably isn't the best choice.


--
Michael M. ++ Portland, OR ++ USA
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute 
reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream." --S. Jackson


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Re: install 4.0 on usb hdd

[Zoran Kolic]

Thanks all for responses!

(Douglas Allan Tutty)
> As I understand it, some enclosures are bootable and some aren't.

Hm! I'll get hdd for few days. And, I still have patient to get final
4.0 to make install.

(Hugo Vanwoerkom)
> I am having trouble using my USB disk with mkinitrd.yaird ...

I plan to install from the start, from CD. System on inner hdd is bsd.
Want to avoid any problem, making it separatelly. I will just boot
cd, get it on external hdd, put grub on the first part of _external_
disk and boot from bios. Mbr on internal hdd should not have any
knowledge about usb drive. If works, I could go further (plan9).
My nightmare is: how to put boot loader for just _external_ drive on
_external_ drive? If I have two standalone disks, internal and usb,
would bios see them the way I like?

   Zoran



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Re: debian rocks!

[Shobhit Jindal]

a damm happy user here too :)

On 2/5/07, Bruno Buys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Just count one more happy debian user! Reinstalled yesterday, to switch
from x86 sarge to amd64 etch. Everything went flawlessly.
Downloaded last netinst, booted it, hardware detected smoothly. The
machine has two sound cards, both worked as before. I chose manual disk
editing, reformatted both / and /usr/bin, left /backup and /home
untouched. The new system was installed in like 15 min or less. Rebooted
into new system, skipped tasksel completely, apt-get installed kde,
x-window-system, xorg, and their fellows. No surprises. New kde found
all my configs, got a desktop just identical to the previous. The only
catch ins't debian related: vmware seems to not like my
/usr/src/include/linux, and asks for a new linux/version.h.



i have been stuck to kernel 2.6.18-1-686 for the very same reason and
not upgrading
have searched a bit but to no avail.

But i can

live with that.
So, for now I can only thank the project for such a solid system. In the
future, when I will be wealthier, I hope to donate regularly.



bruno
debian user and admirer


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Shobhit Jindal
B.Tech. Part-III,
Department Of Electronics Engineering, ITBHU
INDIA

Re: debian/unstable+KDE: screensaver/lock session not working

[Florian Kulzer]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 16:03:21 +0100, Bruno Voigt wrote:
> Florian Kulzer schrieb am 05.02.2007 14:39:10:

[...]

> > I don't know all the details, but I know that you should be able to lock
> > the screen under KDE with the following command:
> > 
> > dcop kdesktop KScreensaverIface lock
> > 
> > Maybe that will give you a helpful error message if it does not work;
> > also check ~/.xession-errors for anything related to the screensaver.
> 
> the above dcop invocation just returns immediately without output.
> No output in .xsession-errors

What happens if you run "dcop kdesktop"? You should get a list of the
available DCOP functions. Is anything included that looks like it is
screensaver-related?

[...]

> > If all else fails you can create a new user and test if that user can
> > lock the screen normally. That will at least tell you if you have a
> > system-wide problem or one related to your regular user's configuration.
> 
> Lock Session doesn't work for a new user either.
> 
> So what global config shall I check next?

If you try to run the following command

/usr/bin/kdesktop_lock --forcelock

are there any errors?

Which version of the "kdesktop" package is installed on your system?

You could try to purge kdesktop and reinstall it. You will probably need
"dpkg --force-depends -P kdesktop" to remove it. Then you can run
"apt-get install kdesktop" to get clean versions of all config files.
(Of course you can also use aptitude to reinstall or run "dpkg -i" with
the newest kdesktop<...>.deb package in /var/cache/apt/archives/.)

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  Florian


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Re: Sound jerking with via 82xx soundcard

[Michelle Konzack]

Am 2007-01-24 18:35:10, schrieb Atis:
> Hi,
> 
> A little update to the sound jerking problem.
> 
> If i unload most of applications, leave almost plain KDE, i can hear
> KDE startup sound almost normally, just few flickers...
> 
> however no chances of running any kind of media player.. here's an
> example.. i freed up memory, and launched noatun playing (jerking)
> mp3, and looked for `ps aux` and `top` in console (see end). no signs
> of high load problems.
> 
> anyone can give some references, where to start debugging?

The new version of KDE does not more install a SOUNDDAEMON by
default, which mean, only ONE applocation can use /dev/dsp.

You need a SoundDaemon like

rplay
esd
artsd
...


Thanks, Greetings and nice Day
Michelle Konzack
Systemadministrator
Tamay Dogan Network
Debian GNU/Linux Consultant


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best terminal emulator for emacs -nw?

[Tyler Smith]

Hi,

I'm trying to get emacs setup for mutt and slrn. It works really well,
except for one thing. When I use it as my editor with emacs -nw, the
alt- key combos get muddled by xterm en route to emacs, so that I have
to use ESC instead. Is this unavoidable, or is there a terminal
emulator that allows for the use of meta keys?

I'm sure this is either a very dumb or very common question, but I
couldn't make google cooperate.

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Re: How to make work dual monitors with Debian etch on an IBM x60s ThinkPad?

[Tyler Smith]

On 2007-02-01, Florian Kulzer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 12:27:29 +, Tyler Smith wrote:
>> >> I've been wanting to set up my R60 so that I can use my desktop monitor 
>> >> for a while. However, reading this thread and googling around, checking 
>> >> the thinkwiki, i'm not getting it.
>
> ...I am afraid that I have reached the end of my knowledge.
>
Thanks for your help with this. Most of it is still beyond my
knowledge, but when I have a few hours to work on your suggestions and
hunt down the missing pieces with Google I'll give it another shot.

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Re: Why there is no space left on root partition?

[Michelle Konzack]

Am 2007-01-19 21:15:15, schrieb Henrik Enberg:
> Jon Dowland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > I'd be curious to know what applications are spouting crap into
> > it. There'd be a round of bugs filed by me on them.
> 
> Mine is full of spewage from GTK-based apps.

Please write Bugreports against the appropriated Package.

I had this too with fvwm and rplay and both Maintainers had
correct it realy fast.

Since filling up $USER apace with useless debug messages
and such is definitivly a Bug of severity "important".

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day
Michelle Konzack


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Re: Adaptec 1540CF (aha1542) not detected

[Michelle Konzack]

Am 2007-01-29 19:57:57, schrieb Oliver Twist:
> greetings... :)
> 
> I am trying to install etch RC1 on a old machine with an Adaptec aha1540CF 
> ISA SCSI card, but cannot seem to get debian to detect the controller.

Detect yes, but bot bootable...

The AHA1540CF is a Low-Cost controler (a striped down AHA1542)
which is NOT bootable it can be used as Extension to a AHA1542
or standalone for SCSI CDROM or TAPES.

> The aha1540 does NOT boot CDs well (seems to use some sort of floppy 
> emulation that does not work with most bootable CDs).  So I am trying to 

It will NEVER boot a CD.

> However, the installer cannot detect my SCSI CDROM.  I try to choose it 
> manually, but no such device seems to be listed in /dev (looking for 
> /dev/sr0 or some such)

It should be /dev/scdX

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day
Michelle Konzack
Systemadministrator
Tamay Dogan Network
Debian GNU/Linux Consultant


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Re: Sound jerking with via 82xx soundcard

[Raffaele Morelli]

Artsd is nothing wrong, it's just used for KDE sounds.. none of
players tried was using it. For being sure, i just killed it before
next tests.

Just tried mplayer, surprisingly it played almost normal (lag every 5
or so seconds :D), i set verbosity to 5, and got some output at moment
of lag (see below).

>From this i suspect it could be some kind of buffering problem. As i
understand, it's  lagging when it cant play some larger chunk, so it's
trying smaller and smaller..

Anyone have any ideas what buffer i could check/increase?

Regards,
Atis.



Hi
I had similar problems with kde sound system, noatun, kaffeine... which
disappeared when I configured kde not to deal with sound at all.

Why don't you use alsa?

regards

Re: Netinstall via bridge [SOLVED]

[Andrei Popescu]

On Mon, 5 Feb 2007 09:33:07 -0500
celejar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> For posterity, I'll add: I didn't use dhcp on either NIC, since that
> would have caused havoc by changing the gateway and nameserver
> information had I used the (new) router's dhcp server, and setting up
> my own would have been far too much of a hassle. I just assigned each
> NIC an ip address manually (192.168.1.100 / 101), and I copied one of
> the nameservers from /etc/resolv.conf (populated by the dhcp server on
> the original router, which in turn got it from the ISP) to the laptop.
> 
> Celejar

You could also use a caching dns server (like dnsmasq) on the router
computer and then point all clients to that one.

Regards,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)


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PCMCIA/PCI Wireless Card 802.11a/b/g for private Mesh

[Michelle Konzack]

Hello Mesh- and Wireless geeks,

since my 4 Mobilhomes and my Truck is nearly complete, I have some problems
with the Wireless connection between the Mobilehomes, the Truck and the
Trailer.

I need a realy powerfull Wireless card which support a/b/g standards in a
Wireless-Mesh to connect all 6 permanent together (as Relaystations to
increase the range, and such)

The Problem is, that the Proxim Combo-Cards (PCMCIA) are TO expensive as that
I can install 4 of them in each Mesh-Router...  (= 24 Cards required plus the
Laptops)

Can anyone can recomment me less expensive international usable cards?
In general I prefer PCI with external antenas since I have already of the
Proxim cards. 

Note:   With the Proxim Cards (using 802.11a) and a 10dbi OmniWave Antenna
(on a telescop extender with 8 meter I reach at least 1500 meter
distance in a free terrain by 54 MBit without fallback)

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day
Michelle Konzack


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Re: [ANNOUNCE] tdapp-defaults: localization and themeing

[Michelle Konzack]

Hello John,

Am 2007-01-18 09:29:26, schrieb John C:
> Michelle Konzack wrote:
> >Dear Debian Developers, Mentors, Womens, Contributors and Users,
> >
> >first of all Happy new Year and may this new year bring us many new ideas
> >and continuing best GNU/Linux distribution of the world.
> 
> Happy New Year Michelle!
> 
> >Since my Website was closed for 16 month (I have to much critic for
> >the french governement) by french authorities I have currently only a
> >60 MByte Homepage at 
> >You find Screenshoots by klicking the link to "tdapp-defaults".
> 
> Have you angered another government? :)
> 
> I can't seem to get to your homepage.

My website was hit be three idiots which used wget/curl to download
it entirely 20-30 times and since I have only a FREE diskspace of
60 MB with 1 Gbyte traffic, Freenet has removed it...

The Freenet has changed the men eof the Server and such BS! Grrr

The new one is here:



the other two:




do not more exist.

Note:  Since I was 3 weeks sick (feever of 41 degree and hospital)
   I was not able to work on "tdapp-defaults" but some people
   has suggested me already, to split the source into

   tdapp-defaults-l10n
   and
   tdapp-defaults-themes

   which I do since today.

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day
Michelle Konzack


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Re: Attracting newbies (Was Booting Debian/testing fails)

[Andrei Popescu]

On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 07:15:44 -0800
"Michael M." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I think the issue people aren't addressing in this thread is one of 
> goals. Most people who use Windows are not much more than novices or 
> advanced beginners with respect to the intricacies of Windows
> operation. Part of the reason for that is simply that most people
> don't want to be. They want to be able to do what they want or need
> to do with a computer, they don't really care about the whys &
> wherefores of how the computer is carrying out the functions they
> want it to perform, nor about how Windows and Linux distros and OS X
> differ in their approaches to carrying out those functions.
> 
> If these are the people you're aiming at, then going on & on about
> the Social Contract, the philosophy of open source, the evils of
> proprietary formats, the importance of standards, etc., etc., is a
> waste of time. They don't care. They want to get their photos off
> their cameras. Frankly, I'm not sure any Linux distro, let alone

Fact: A dancer from a show in Romania lost her job (not to
mention the embarrassment) because some *very private* pictures of her
and her boyfriend got out on the internet.

Rumour: It is said her (or her boyfriends?) computer got cracked and
the pictures stolen.

True or not, I think users care about their private data, like
passwords, credit card numbers or even private photos, and their
ignorance is hurting the whole internet community (spambots).

Regards,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)


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Re: Attracting newbies (Was Booting Debian/testing fails)

[Andrei Popescu]

On Sun, 4 Feb 2007 18:53:03 -0500
Douglas Allan Tutty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 05:50:23PM -0500, Kamaraju Kusumanchi wrote:
> > On Sunday 04 February 2007 16:38, Ken Heard wrote:
> > > If the documentation editors are to
> > > be volunteers, good ones will not be attracted to the project
> > > unless they are given status in the organization.
> > 
> > You raise many good points some of which are very true and some of
> > which I do not completely agree with. This happens to be on the top
> > of things with which I do not agree...
> > 
> > The reason why I contribute (be it code, patches, helping on d-u,
> > writing articles etc.,) to Debian is because I enjoy doing so. Not
> > because one day I dream of becoming a DD, not because I get good
> > reputation points, not because I make money out of it etc., If some
> > documentation editor becomes less motivated to contribute to Debian
> > simply because, there is no official status given to him, I
> > seriously doubt if his motivation levels remain high after couple
> > of years...
> 
> I would agree with you Raju.  I would enjoy working on a doc project
> but I'm nowhere near enough to being a politition to want any official
> status.  I just enjoy teaching.

Me too, but I still would enjoy to see that my opinion (in regards to
newcomers, novices, ...) is taken seriously. I'm very interested in
that project mentioned by Gustavo Franco in a recent thread (the one
about getting the voice of the community in the project).

Regards,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)


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Re: What UPS to buy

[Andrei Popescu]

On Sun, 4 Feb 2007 19:44:30 -0500
Kevin Coyner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Some of APC's UPS units allow you to set the voltage sensitivity via
> dip switches, some of the units allow you to set it via software, and
> some don't let you adjust the sensitivity.  So if you plan to back up
> your battery powered UPS with an external generator, make sure to get
> a UPS with an adjustment for voltage sensitivity.

About two years ago, we had trouble at work due to an APC UPS that
would kick in every night. As we needed the computer at 5:00 AM we had
to connect the computer directly. When my boss wanted to throw away the
"faulty" UPS I took it home. After a Google search I found the User's
Manual describing the above mentioned dip-switches.

Needless to say I now have a pretty good working UPS, because of the
power fluctuations in my country and the stupidity of our IT-Service
(who couldn't figure out how to solve the problem).

Regards,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)


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Re: Unstable and Testing stability

[Osamu Aoki]

On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 05:49:17PM -0500, Michael Pobega wrote:
> My question is just /how/ unstable is Debian Sid? 

It is unstable when it is unstable :)

Currently under freeze, very stable indeed.


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highmem kernel question

[Tyler Smith]

Hi,

I've upgraded my RAM from 512M to 1.5G, (the original 512 plus a new
1GB chip). I've installed it correctly, as verified by the BIOS and
WinXP on the same machine. Debian testing only sees 906792kb vs
1563056kb in WinXP. Google tells me that I need a kernel with highmem
support. I can't sort out what I need to do though - is this
accomplished with a different linux-image from aptitude, and if so,
which one?

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ uname -a
Linux blackbart 2.6.18-3-486 #1 Mon Dec 4 15:59:52 UTC 2006 i686 GNU/Linux

Thinkpad R60, Intel Core Solo 1660 Mhz CPU

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making ez-ipupdate work

[Peter Easthope]

Debian users,

I aim to use gnudip _via_ ez-ipupdate.  Tyler
MacDonald instructed '... create an "A" RR record ...'
and I have no idea what it is.

The sourceforge page for ez-ipupdate says that
bind is needed.  Conversely, the Debian Network
Administrator's Manual remarks "If you are setting
up a home system you most likely do not need
BIND installed."

So should bind be installed on the machine
which has the dynamic address or not?

Thanks, ... Peter E.
--
Desktops.OpenDoc  http://carnot.pathology.ubc.ca/


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Re: highmem kernel question

[Andrei Popescu]

On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 17:32:01 GMT
Tyler Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I've upgraded my RAM from 512M to 1.5G, (the original 512 plus a new
> 1GB chip). I've installed it correctly, as verified by the BIOS and
> WinXP on the same machine. Debian testing only sees 906792kb vs
> 1563056kb in WinXP. Google tells me that I need a kernel with highmem
> support. I can't sort out what I need to do though - is this
> accomplished with a different linux-image from aptitude, and if so,
> which one?
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ uname -a
> Linux blackbart 2.6.18-3-486 #1 Mon Dec 4 15:59:52 UTC 2006 i686
> GNU/Linux
> 
> Thinkpad R60, Intel Core Solo 1660 Mhz CPU

Use a -686 image.

~$ grep HIGHMEM /boot/config-2.6.18-3-686
# CONFIG_NOHIGHMEM is not set
CONFIG_HIGHMEM4G=y
# CONFIG_HIGHMEM64G is not set
CONFIG_HIGHMEM=y

HTH,
Andrei
-- 
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(Albert Einstein)


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Re: highmem kernel question

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 02/05/07 11:32, Tyler Smith wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I've upgraded my RAM from 512M to 1.5G, (the original 512 plus a new
> 1GB chip). I've installed it correctly, as verified by the BIOS and
> WinXP on the same machine. Debian testing only sees 906792kb vs
> 1563056kb in WinXP. Google tells me that I need a kernel with highmem
> support. I can't sort out what I need to do though - is this
> accomplished with a different linux-image from aptitude, and if so,
> which one?
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ uname -a
> Linux blackbart 2.6.18-3-486 #1 Mon Dec 4 15:59:52 UTC 2006 i686 GNU/Linux
> 
> Thinkpad R60, Intel Core Solo 1660 Mhz CPU

You need linux-image-2.6.18-4-686.


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Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

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U6KiShKlEYXLF2Dokfg7P+s=
=g1Q6
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Re: Kernel 2.6.17

[Nigel Henry]

On Sunday 04 February 2007 18:54, Marcus Blumhagen wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 05:51:28PM +0100, Nigel Henry wrote:
> > I have a question though. I have a 2.6.17 kernel in
> > /var/cache/apt/archives. This was from the archives I copied from my
> > other Etch install. Synaptic now only shows a 2.6.18 kernel available,
> > and I saw someone had a problem with that, and Grub. I'm using LiLo, so
> > perhaps the problem won't occur, but is there a way to install the 2.6.17
> > one that I have in /var/cache/apt archives. I should probably know the
> > answer, but am not sure.
>
> First of all congratulations for your successful upgrade.
>
> That being said, you can install the 2.6.17 kernel by using dpkg:
>
>  # dpkg -i /var/cache/apt/archives/.deb
>
>
> Regards
> Marcus

Thanks for that Marcus. The kernel installed ok, but I couldn't boot either it 
or the 2.6.8 one after installing the 2.6.17 one. The 2.4.27 one booted up ok 
though. It was late, and I wasn't sure what the problem was. Lilo complained 
when running lilo, that it couldn't find any files for 2.6.8, or 2.6.17. Ok I 
thought. 2.6.17 is on the system, so I'll install the 2.6.18 one as well. Set 
the download up (on dialup), and went to bed.

Feeling a bit more up to speed this morning I realised what the problem was. A 
problem I'd had before when adding kernels to Debian systems. It was those 
darned soflinks in / for vmlinuz, and initrd.img.

Changing the initrd lines in /etc/lilo.conf for the 2.6.8, and 2.6.17 kernels 
from.
initrd=/initrd.img-2.6.8-3-386
to
initrd=/boot/initrd.img-2.6.8-3-386
And the same for the 2.6.17 one.

Back to the 2.6.18 kernel that I set to download, and install last night. This 
morning synaptic was complaining with a "post install script error 9". Don't 
know what that is. Also I had no new entry in lilo for the 2.6.18 kernel 
after running lilo. /boot showed an entry for vmlinuz-2.6.18-3-686, but no 
entry for it's initrd.img. I've rebooted since then, as I got the 2.6.8 
kernel to boot again, and just looking now, I now have an initrd.img for the 
2.6.18 kernel in /boot, but it's got a padlock on it, and the other 
initrd.img's havn't.

I must say I have some concerns about even booting the 2.6.18 kernel, 
presuming I could get it to boot.

On Fedora Core 5 I had no problems with the machine shutting down completely 
with the 2.6.17 kernel, but the moment I booted with a 2.6.18 one, the 
machine would no longer shutdown completely, and neither would the 2.6.17 one 
anymore. the original 2.6.15 kernel still shutdown completely though. Using 
"acpi=force as a kernel parameter when booting (that's using Grub) resolves 
the problem

I've read of a similar bug amongst the debian bugs. Not sure if it was to do 
with the 2.6.18 kernel, but there was a fix there.
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=390547

I'm going to hold off on booting the 2.6.18 kernel for the moment. I'm trying 
to find 2.6.17 versions for a new install of FC5, so that I can confirm that 
the machine shutsdown completely using them. Then it's a case of trying to 
find out what system wide changes booting a 2.6.18 kernel makes, which stops 
stuff working, and when rebooting to the earlier kernel, stuff that did work 
no longer does. It's not just the shutdown problem. I saw another post about, 
either networking, or sound not working when booting a 2.6.18. It had worked 
before with an earlier kernel, but now booting from the earlier kernel the 
networking/sound now fails to work.

Sorry about rambling on about FC. this was supposed to be about my upgrade 
from Sarge to Etch.

Nigel.




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VMWare on current kernels (was: debian rocks!)

[Margarita Manterola]

Hi!

On 2/5/07, Shobhit Jindal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On 2/5/07, Bruno Buys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The only
> catch ins't debian related: vmware seems to not like my
> /usr/src/include/linux, and asks for a new linux/version.h.

 i have been stuck to kernel 2.6.18-1-686 for the very same reason and
not upgrading have searched a bit but to no avail.


I had this problem as well.  And as a pointer, I could get the latest
vmware-player to work, where the old vmware-workstation that I had did
not.

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Marga


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Re: EXT3-fs error, directory contains a hole

[José Pablo Fernández]

On Thursday 01 February 2007 19:41, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 02/01/07 16:18, José Pablo Fernández wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > On Wednesday 31 January 2007 20:20, Douglas Allan Tutty wrote:
> >> Its been years since I ran ext* but I don't think it can hurt to do
> >> another fsck with the filesystem totally unmounted.  That means that if
> >> this is the / filesystem, you need to use a rescue media not just the
> >> boot-time fsck while its mounted ro.
> >
> > Thank you for repling. So, I should do a 'forced' fsck. The problem with
> > doing it with a media is that this is a raid by software.
> > Is there any easy way to build the raid when running from a separate
> > media?
>
> Is this the / device?

I think this isn't, but the / needs maintenance as well.
-- 
José Pablo Fernández
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Unstable and Testing stability

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 09:24:11PM -0500, Michael Pobega wrote:
> Jan C. Nordholz wrote:
> >Hi,
> >
> >  
> deb http://security.debian.org/ etch/updates testing contrib
> deb-src http://security.debian.org/ etch/updates testing contrib/
> 
> >>>Your first line points to testing but the third line (security) still
> >>>points to etch.
> >>>
> >>>  
> >>Oh wow, I didn't notice that. Well I removed the etch and replaced it 
> >>with testing, but now I'm getting this error:
> >>
> >
> >the problem is that testing (or etch) appears twice in the line. It 
> >should
> >read
> >
> >] deb http://security.debian.org  testing/updatesmain contrib
> >] ( Server )  (Distribution) ( Sections )
> >
> >so that "apt-get update --print-uris" prints something like
> >
> >] http://security.debian.org/dists/testing/updates/Release.gpg
> >
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Jan
> >  
> I ended up getting it working, thanks. I can't believe I was so stupid 
> to substitute "main" for "testing", I guess I wasn't paying attention. 
> Thanks for your help all, I'll be sticking with testing permanently now 
> :-D
> 

I know this thread has run its course, but I've only just seen it and
need to add .02 about a couple issues that either weren't mentioned or
I think were misinterpreted.
 
The breakage that people refer to in testing is a two fold issue, as I
see it. 1) when "Etch" goes stable, there is a large backlog of
upgrades waiting in sid that will all flush into testing in very short
order. This means that it could get real ugly in testing for a
while. 2) there is a lag in the process from sid to testing. I don't
remember how many days, but it is a few days for sure. What this means
is if something breaks in testing, the bug fix goes in to sid where it
sits for several days before it can move into testing. In addition to
the lag time, there is potential for bugs to take days or weeks to
actually get fixed before they even hit sid. This means when things do
break in testing it can be quite a while before they are resolved. 

just wanted to throw that out there.

A


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Re: What UPS to buy

[Johannes Wiedersich]

Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:
> Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:
>> Greg Folkert wrote:
>>> On Sun, 2007-02-04 at 22:54 +, J.A. de Vries wrote:
 On 2007-02-04 @ 08:45:38 (week 05) Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:
>>> NUT. Powerchute for Linux is CRAP. Unless they had "de-windows-ified"
>>> it.
>>
>>
>> What's NUT?
>>
> 
> Sorry. Found it.

Where? What is it now?

(Couldn't find it with dict or on Wikipedia and am to lazy to look
further...)

Johannes


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Re: What UPS to buy

[Johannes Wiedersich]

Johannes Wiedersich wrote:
> Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:
>> Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:
>>> Greg Folkert wrote:
 On Sun, 2007-02-04 at 22:54 +, J.A. de Vries wrote:
> On 2007-02-04 @ 08:45:38 (week 05) Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:
 NUT. Powerchute for Linux is CRAP. Unless they had "de-windows-ified"
 it.
>>>
>>> What's NUT?
>>>
>> Sorry. Found it.
> 
> Where? What is it now?

Had to be on my computer somewhere...

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/$ aptitude show nut
Package: nut
[...]

Description: The core system of the nut - Network UPS Tools
 nut is a client/server uninterruptible power supply (UPS) monitoring
system that permits the sharing of one (or
 more) UPS between several machines. The 'server' monitors the UPS and
notifies the 'clients' when the UPS is on
 or has a low battery.

 This package contains the core system. In many cases it is sufficient
for a basic UPS monitoring system.

 Homepage: http://www.networkupstools.org

Tags: admin::monitoring, hardware::power, hardware::power:ups,
interface::daemon, network::server, role::program,
  scope::utility



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Re: Attracting newbies (Was Booting Debian/testing fails)

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 07:12:24PM +0200, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 07:15:44 -0800
> "Michael M." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > I think the issue people aren't addressing in this thread is one of 
> > goals. Most people who use Windows are not much more than novices or 
> > advanced beginners with respect to the intricacies of Windows
> > operation. Part of the reason for that is simply that most people
> > don't want to be. They want to be able to do what they want or need
> > to do with a computer, they don't really care about the whys &
> > wherefores of how the computer is carrying out the functions they
> > want it to perform, nor about how Windows and Linux distros and OS X
> > differ in their approaches to carrying out those functions.
> > 
> > If these are the people you're aiming at, then going on & on about
> > the Social Contract, the philosophy of open source, the evils of
> > proprietary formats, the importance of standards, etc., etc., is a
> > waste of time. They don't care. They want to get their photos off
> > their cameras. Frankly, I'm not sure any Linux distro, let alone
> 
> Fact: A dancer from a show in Romania lost her job (not to
> mention the embarrassment) because some *very private* pictures of her
> and her boyfriend got out on the internet.
> 
> Rumour: It is said her (or her boyfriends?) computer got cracked and
> the pictures stolen.
> 
> True or not, I think users care about their private data, like
> passwords, credit card numbers or even private photos, and their
> ignorance is hurting the whole internet community (spambots).
> 

Ignorance is exactly it. I think most users have no idea how
vulnerable they really are *AND* if they actually were made to
understand that, there would be a significant change in the way people
view computers. 

A


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Re: Attracting newbies (Was Booting Debian/testing fails)

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 07:15:44AM -0800, Michael M. wrote:

> "why Debian instead of Ubuntu/SuSE/Linspire/etc.?" Do that and I doubt 
> you'd get too many users for whom Debian probably isn't the best choice.
> 

maybe our focus, as a trying-to-be-helpful user community is to
examine what the derivative offerings are and redirect people
appropriately. Now wait... I'm not advocating that debian activiely
steer people away from debian. I'm saying examine what a user needs,
and wants, and recommend the right distro for them, even if it is one
of the derivatives. The different stages of skill development and user
requirements frankly point to different distros anyway. I put my mom
on Ubuntu, not because I thought she couldn't handle deb, she
certainly could have, but because I knew that she wanted a "just
works" solution for her old PPC mac. It was perfect. Everything works
to her satisfaction out of the box. She in on dialup so has no real
major security issues, and since it all works, i haven't even bothered
to teach her how to upgrade. That was the "right" solution for her. 

For many usrs, debian is just not the "right" solution at this
time. Maybe it will be for that user in the future. I would rather
refer someone to the "right" solution and have them get a good feeling
about "those debian guys" because they listened to what I needed and
helped me out. That is certainly better than dragging some novice
through the wringer trying to help them get their sound working or
whatever. Those users, if properly educated and handled will look back
on their brief debian experience with good feelings. They will
recognise that their current o/s is base don debian and will
ultimately do good advocacy for debian in some manner or another. And,
if they decide to pursue the computer "education" more fully and they
want the challenge and flexibility of running full-blown debian then
they can do so. They will come back to this community with *some*
debian based background, a positive attitude --having been treated
well the first time through, and a higher general level of computer
skills that can be applied to the problem.

This leads to the interplay between the derivatives. With derivatives
focusing on the end-user desktop, they can filter improvements
upstream to debian which will ultimately benefit debian and all the
other deriv's too. 

meh. my .02

A


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Re: VMWare on current kernels (was: debian rocks!)

[Bruno Buys]

Margarita Manterola wrote:

Hi!

On 2/5/07, Shobhit Jindal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On 2/5/07, Bruno Buys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The only
> catch ins't debian related: vmware seems to not like my
> /usr/src/include/linux, and asks for a new linux/version.h.

 i have been stuck to kernel 2.6.18-1-686 for the very same 
reason and

not upgrading have searched a bit but to no avail.


I had this problem as well.  And as a pointer, I could get the latest
vmware-player to work, where the old vmware-workstation that I had did
not.


I was trying with the vmware server. Anybody has a suggestion?
I have both kernel sources and headers installed.


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Re: relationship between debian's wiki and newbiedoc's wiki

[Chris Lale]

Andrei Popescu wrote:

On Sun, 4 Feb 2007 16:36:06 -0500
Douglas Allan Tutty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

  

If you changed the licence to be DFSG compliant, I would be happy to
contribute.  Then again, if you did that, perhaps NewbieDoc's wiki
could be merged to Debian's.



GFDL is considered DFSG compliant as long as the document doesn't have
unmodifiable parts:

http://www.debian.org/News/2006/20060316


  


This is, in fact, the version of the GFDL used by the NewbieDOC project 
since 2001.


It is easy enough specifically to dual-licence an article (GFDL + GPL). 
Doing this has made it possible for some of the NewbieDOC content to be 
included in the Debian Reference (which requires GPL). It would be very 
difficult to re-licence all the work in either NewbieDOC or Debian 
Reference - tracing all the contributors (past and present) and 
obtaining permission would be very difficult.


--
Chris.


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Re: Removing desktop environments

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 05:37:50PM -0500, cga2000 wrote:
> 
> I did notice that /usr/share/ has over 700M of stuff in it and this
> looks suspicious. 

my /usr/share/doc has 154M of stuff, maybe you could kill some -doc
packages... just a thought.

A


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howto build debian xen kernel?

[Jonas Meurer]

Hello,

I just tried to build a debian xen kernel, based on linux-source-2.6.18,
linux-patch-debian-2.6.18 and kernel-package.

According to the docs i found, i can apply the debian kernel sources in
the following way:

resivo:/usr/src/linux-source-2.6.18$ ../kernel-patches/all/2.6.18/apply/debian 
2.6.18-10

unfortunately, the xen (and vserver) patches are not in the default
patchset, but in an extra 'series'. so i thought that the following
should work:

resivo:/usr/src/linux-source-2.6.18$ ../kernel-patches/all/2.6.18/apply/debian 
2.6.18-10-extra
Error: Target revision is not in our list of revisions

obviously, it doesn't.

So my simple question is: how do i build a debian xen kernel with
make-kpkg from debian kernel sources?

The official debian kernel images don't use make-kpkg, so it wouldn't
help to look in debian/rules from linux-2.6.

I didn't find any documentation about that topic. All howtos/tutorials/...
that talk about building a xen kernel, use the original xen kernel
sources, not the debian kernel source with patches.

greetings,
 jonas


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Re: Booting Debian/testing fails

[Chris Lale]

Douglas Allan Tutty wrote:

On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 08:18:20PM +, Chris Lale wrote:
 
  
I hope not! Perhaps we need a debian-newbie-users list? It would need 
some more-experienced users prepared to monitor the list and offer 
"gentle" advice. The NewbieDOC project used to have a list like this. 
Unfortunately, it ceased to function as it lost a critical mass of 
more-experienced users, and had to be closed a couple of years ago.



One problem with this approach is that without proper newbie
documentation promently available on the website (like the points I made
earlier to this or the other thread on this topic), the list will just
get the same questions over and over again.  


[...]
  


Exactly.
That is why you will
a. find some articles on the NewbieDOC wiki about issues that have 
originated on the d-u list, and
b. find references to these articles in subsequent d-u posts, thus 
reducing d-u traffic.


A good example is the recurring issue of Aptitude.

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ping: invalid argument

[Max Hyre]

   Dear Debianists:

   Between two successive calls to ping, it crapped out.
(Tried twice in a row because I had a flaky DSL connection,
and wanted to see whether it had decided to join the party.)

==
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# ifup eth0

DHCPACK from 192.168.0.1
bound to 192.168.1.64 -- renewal in 14 seconds.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# ping -n 1 www.debian.org
ping: unknown host www.debian.org
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# ping -n 1 www.debian.org
connect: Invalid argument
==

   Ran strace and get, annotated:

==
// OK, we can get a socket.
socket(PF_INET, SOCK_DGRAM, IPPROTO_IP) = 3
// Not sure why it has to bother the router
// (192.168.0.1), but it seems happy.
connect(3, {sa_family=AF_INET, sin_port=htons(53),
sin_addr=inet_addr("192.168.0.1")}, 28) = 0
fcntl64(3, F_GETFL) = 0x2 (flags O_RDWR)
fcntl64(3, F_SETFL, O_RDWR|O_NONBLOCK)  = 0
gettimeofday({1170694577, 208172}, NULL) = 0
poll([{fd=3, events=POLLOUT, revents=POLLOUT}], 1, 0) = 1
// We can send to Debian...
send(3, "\225z\1\0\0\1\0\0\0\0\0\0\3www\6debian\3org\0\0\1\0\1", 32, 0) = 32
poll([{fd=3, events=POLLIN, revents=POLLIN}], 1, 5000) = 1
ioctl(3, FIONREAD, [147])   = 0
// ... and even get a 147-byte response.  I guess the
// actual ping is OK.  (Wireshark verifies this.)
recvfrom(3,
"\225z\201\200\0\1\0\1\0\4\0\1\3www\6debian\3org\0\0\1\0"..., 1024, 0,
{sa_family=AF_INET, sin_port=htons(53),
sin_addr=inet_addr("192.168.0.1")}, [16]) = 147
close(3)= 0
// But now we want to connect to 0.0.0.1?!  I should
// hope it complains about that argument.
socket(PF_INET, SOCK_DGRAM, IPPROTO_IP) = 3
connect(3, {sa_family=AF_INET, sin_port=htons(1025),
sin_addr=inet_addr("0.0.0.1")}, 16) = -1 EINVAL (Invalid argument)
==

o Asking Google about `"0.0.0.1" "ping: invalid argument"'
  returns precisely zip.
o It returns some stuff from a search on `"ping:  invalid
  argument"', but none of it seems germane.
o Anything related to `"0.0.0.1"' /seems/ to suggest that
  that's an invalid IP address, but I can't find anything
  that really says so.
o Nor do I find anything in the BTS or the mailing-list
  archives.
o I've tried bringing eth0 down and up again, but no joy.

   If anyone could supply me a clue, I'd be most
appreciative.


-- 
Best wishes,

 Max Hyre




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Re: ping: invalid argument

[Jonas Meurer]

On 05/02/2007 Max Hyre wrote:
>Dear Debianists:
> 
>Between two successive calls to ping, it crapped out.
> (Tried twice in a row because I had a flaky DSL connection,
> and wanted to see whether it had decided to join the party.)
> 
> ==
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# ifup eth0
> 
> DHCPACK from 192.168.0.1
> bound to 192.168.1.64 -- renewal in 14 seconds.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# ping -n 1 www.debian.org
> ping: unknown host www.debian.org
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# ping -n 1 www.debian.org
> connect: Invalid argument
> ==

I guess that the problem is '-n 1'. According to the ping manpage, the
option '-n' takes no argument:

  -nNumeric output only.  No attempt will be made to
lookup symbolic names for host addresses.

resivo:~# ping -n 1 www.debian.org
connect: Invalid argument

resivo:~# ping -n www.debian.org
PING www.debian.org (194.109.137.218) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 194.109.137.218: icmp_seq=1 ttl=56 time=27.9 ms

...
 jonas


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Re: Attracting newbies (Was Booting Debian/testing fails)

[Michael Pobega]

Andrew Sackville-West wrote:

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 07:15:44AM -0800, Michael M. wrote:

  
"why Debian instead of Ubuntu/SuSE/Linspire/etc.?" Do that and I doubt 
you'd get too many users for whom Debian probably isn't the best choice.





maybe our focus, as a trying-to-be-helpful user community is to
examine what the derivative offerings are and redirect people
appropriately. Now wait... I'm not advocating that debian activiely
steer people away from debian. I'm saying examine what a user needs,
and wants, and recommend the right distro for them, even if it is one
of the derivatives. The different stages of skill development and user
requirements frankly point to different distros anyway. I put my mom
on Ubuntu, not because I thought she couldn't handle deb, she
certainly could have, but because I knew that she wanted a "just
works" solution for her old PPC mac. It was perfect. Everything works
to her satisfaction out of the box. She in on dialup so has no real
major security issues, and since it all works, i haven't even bothered
to teach her how to upgrade. That was the "right" solution for her. 


For many usrs, debian is just not the "right" solution at this
time. Maybe it will be for that user in the future. I would rather
refer someone to the "right" solution and have them get a good feeling
about "those debian guys" because they listened to what I needed and
helped me out. That is certainly better than dragging some novice
through the wringer trying to help them get their sound working or
whatever. Those users, if properly educated and handled will look back
on their brief debian experience with good feelings. They will
recognise that their current o/s is base don debian and will
ultimately do good advocacy for debian in some manner or another. And,
if they decide to pursue the computer "education" more fully and they
want the challenge and flexibility of running full-blown debian then
they can do so. They will come back to this community with *some*
debian based background, a positive attitude --having been treated
well the first time through, and a higher general level of computer
skills that can be applied to the problem.

This leads to the interplay between the derivatives. With derivatives
focusing on the end-user desktop, they can filter improvements
upstream to debian which will ultimately benefit debian and all the
other deriv's too. 


meh. my .02

A
  
I fully agree with you. I think in reality Debian doesn't cater to a lot 
of people's needs (The more common desktop user just wants Beryl and eye 
candy, whereas Debian really offers only stability), and there's really 
nothing we can do about it.


I don't mean to change the subject, but I myself used Ubuntu because I 
felt that Debian was way too outdated for me. Then after multiple system 
breakages I decided to just switch over to Debian, and it ended up 
working fine. Debian has all the positives of Ubuntu (apt, deb files, 
etc.) without all of the negatives (I hate having to do a dist-upgrade, 
especially in Ubuntu since in Ubuntu it breaks your system 80% of the 
time). When I first came to the Debian community, I was told that I 
should go give Ubuntu a shot, and I did. And as Andrew said, I 
inevitably ended up crawling back to Debian and settled with the 
(Somewhat out of date) testing distribution. And to boot, I was so happy 
when I (Just yesterday) changed my sources.list from etch to testing, 
because now I'll never have to do a distro upgrade again.


What I'm trying to say is, if we are just a kind community and we don't 
lie to potential users, they will probably come back to Debian; And if 
they don't, they will at least have no gripes or negative things to say 
about it.


The one thing I really don't understand, though, is why people use 
Ubuntu. Please nobody respond to this or change the topic, but all I'm 
saying is that if you want something like Ubuntu use unstable; It is 
updated pretty often, equally as buggy as Ubuntu, but you never need to 
do a dist-upgrade. It just makes more sense to me, really. Maybe if 
Debian changed the word "/Unstable/" to something else it would bring in 
more users? Maybe Stable, Testing, and BleedingEdge? Just my thoughts.



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Re: VMWare on current kernels (was: debian rocks!)

[Jan Schledermann]

Margarita Manterola wrote:

> Hi!
> 
> On 2/5/07, Shobhit Jindal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On 2/5/07, Bruno Buys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > The only
>> > catch ins't debian related: vmware seems to not like my
>> > /usr/src/include/linux, and asks for a new linux/version.h.
>>
>>  i have been stuck to kernel 2.6.18-1-686 for the very same reason
>>  and
>> not upgrading have searched a bit but to no avail.
> 
> I had this problem as well.  And as a pointer, I could get the latest
> vmware-player to work, where the old vmware-workstation that I had did
> not.
> 

Do you only "have" the sources or did you actually compile your kernel with
the sources that you have on your computer?
As far as I recall from prior experiences with compiling stuff like VMWare,
you should compile the module with the source of the actual running kernel
and not an unused copy of source code.
I have compiled the necessary VMWare modules both with the 2.6.18 and 2.6.19
sources without any problems at all.
A significant difference between the pre-compiled 2.6.18-1-686 kernel and
the source code, is that the source code by default creates version 2.6.18
and NOT 2.6.18-1-686. This version difference could cause the compile
problem?


regards
Jan
-- 
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** Mail me at: jan A.T schledermann D0T org 


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Re: ping: invalid argument

[Max Hyre]

Jonas Meurer wrote:

> I guess that the problem is '-n 1'. According to the ping manpage, the
> option '-n' takes no argument:

AAARRRrrrghh!  I should have used `-c 1'.  I'm so used to using another
implementation that uses -n for the number of pings that I forgot to
check what I was doing.  That it didn't give the error the first
(failed) time put me off the scent.

   Thanks for the reality check.

-- 
Best wishes,

 Max Hyre




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Re: Removing desktop environments

[Alan Ianson]

On Sun February 4 2007 14:37, cga2000 wrote:

> I did notice that /usr/share/ has over 700M of stuff in it and this
> looks suspicious.

That sounds about right. I have a base install plus kde and my /usr/share/ is 
1.8G. :)


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Re: highmem kernel question

[Tyler Smith]

On 2007-02-05, Andrei Popescu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 17:32:01 GMT
> Tyler Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I've upgraded my RAM from 512M to 1.5G, ...  Google tells me that I
>> need a kernel with highmem support.  ... which one?
>> 
>> Linux blackbart 2.6.18-3-486 #1 Mon Dec 4 15:59:52 UTC 2006 i686
>> 
>> Thinkpad R60, Intel Core Solo 1660 Mhz CPU
>
> Use a -686 image.
>
>
> HTH,
> Andrei
> -- 

I installed the linux-image-2.6.18-3-686 from testing, and free now
reports 1,547,636kb total ram!

Thanks!


-- 
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Tyler Smit


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Re: Attracting newbies (Was Booting Debian/testing fails)

[Chris Lale]

Michael Pobega wrote:

Ken Heard wrote:
If GNU-Linux is going to make any serious inroads in the BDU market 
(BDU=brain dead user) which Microsoft dominates faute de mieux, there 
has to be documentation which the average BDU can understand. In the 
distros about which I have had personal experience (Red Hat 8 -- 
before RH abandoned the BDUs -- Debian Sarge and now Etch) such 
documentation seems to be an afterthought. [...]


Ken Heard
Toronto, Canada

Very good writing Ken, I enjoyed reading it. I agree with you that to 
appeal to the BDU market the Debian community will have to band 
together and create easy to follow documentation, but the question is 
do we really want it?


I know that bringing BDU people to Linux is an awesome idea, but the 
influx of BDUs would bring a "stupidity" to Debian, one that is often 
associated with distros like Ubuntu (Note: I have nothing against 
Ubuntu personally, it's just commonly known that most people frown 
upon Ubuntu users). In my experience Debian requires you know nothing 
about Linux to install it, but rather just how a computer works. As 
much as I'd love to have my mother use Debian over Windows, I'd rather 
give her a Fedora or Ubuntu disc before I'd ever give her a Debian 
installer.


Personally, I found the Etch installer easier then eg the Win98 
installer. I think that the reason why the Debian installer is perceived 
to be more problematic is that nine time out of ten you do not do a 
straightforward install to a blank hard drive. You usually want to do 
difficult things like non-destructively shrinking partitions, creating 
partitions manually, dual-booting etc.




Although, I am interested in helping to bring more people to Debian. I 
know that everyone is a BDU at one time, down to both you and me. If 
you need any help e-mail me at this address with anything you need done.





Perhaps there are enough contributors to this thread who are interested 
in producing "BDU" documentation that we could make something happen?


--
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Re: Friendly registrar

[Max Hyre]

Brian Keefer wrote:

> In light of what happened Wednesday, does anyone else have any
> additional suggestions for non-US registrars that won't yank your
> delegation just because a major corporation told them to (it seems
> GoDaddy would rather dump their customers than anger a major
> corporation)?

   It was scary watching the Godaddy commercials on
the Superbowl last night, and thinking ``if only the fans knew
the truth''.  But then, we all know advertising = lying.

-- 
Best wishes,

 Max Hyre




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Re: VMWare on current kernels

[Elimar Riesebieter]

On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 the mental interface of
Jan Schledermann told:

[...]
> A significant difference between the pre-compiled 2.6.18-1-686
> kernel and the source code, is that the source code by default
> creates version 2.6.18 and NOT 2.6.18-1-686. This version
> difference could cause the compile problem?

No! Since 2.6.18 we're using include/linux/utsrelease.h instead of
include/linux/version.h. Either the vm-sources have to be patched or
as you suggested use  a selfconfigured (compiled) kernel.

Elimar

-- 
  The path to source is always uphill!
-unknown-


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Re: VMWare on current kernels (was: debian rocks!)

[Andrew Perrin]

Take a look here:

http://www.vmware.com/community/thread.jspa?messageID=76957&tstart=0

Essentially, vmware in its raw state doesn't compile with relatively newer 
kernels. You need patches to make them work. You can find these patches at 
http://platan.vc.cvut.cz/ftp/pub/vmware .


Once you download and tgunzip them you will simply run the installer from 
there.


Good luck.

Andy Perrin

--
Andrew J Perrin - andrew_perrin (at) unc.edu - http://perrin.socsci.unc.edu
Assistant Professor of Sociology; Book Review Editor, _Social Forces_
University of North Carolina - CB#3210, Chapel Hill, NC 27599-3210 USA
New Book: http://www.press.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/hfs.cgi/00/178592.ctl



On Mon, 5 Feb 2007, Bruno Buys wrote:


Margarita Manterola wrote:

Hi!

On 2/5/07, Shobhit Jindal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On 2/5/07, Bruno Buys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The only
> catch ins't debian related: vmware seems to not like my
> /usr/src/include/linux, and asks for a new linux/version.h.

 i have been stuck to kernel 2.6.18-1-686 for the very same reason and
not upgrading have searched a bit but to no avail.


I had this problem as well.  And as a pointer, I could get the latest
vmware-player to work, where the old vmware-workstation that I had did
not.


I was trying with the vmware server. Anybody has a suggestion?
I have both kernel sources and headers installed.


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Re: Attracting newbies (Was Booting Debian/testing fails)

[Chris Lale]

Michael Pobega wrote:

Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
[...]  I think in reality Debian doesn't cater to a lot of people's needs 


On the other hand, there must be a lot of people who would find Debian a 
great solution if only they could get started.


(The more common desktop user just wants Beryl and eye candy, whereas 
Debian really offers only stability), and there's really nothing we 
can do about it.


This may be true for gamers and the like, but stabilty and security are 
surely more important for a large number of home users who buy online, 
bank online, use digital cameras, etc?




[...]

What I'm trying to say is, if we are just a kind community and we 
don't lie to potential users, they will probably come back to Debian; 
And if they don't, they will at least have no gripes or negative 
things to say about it.

We can do all this and still make Debian more accessible.



The one thing I really don't understand, though, is why people use 
Ubuntu.


I read in a Linux magazine that Ubuntu's popularity was mainly due to a 
vibrant community. Well, if that is the case, Debian already has that - 
it just doesn't yet have much of a focus on "complete newbies" or 
"BDUs". I think that Douglas's ideas for "complete computer newbies" 
could help to fill this gap.



--
Chris.


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Re: Attracting newbies (Was Booting Debian/testing fails)

[Michael Pobega]

Although, I am interested in helping to bring more people to Debian. 
I know that everyone is a BDU at one time, down to both you and me. 
If you need any help e-mail me at this address with anything you need 
done.





Perhaps there are enough contributors to this thread who are 
interested in producing "BDU" documentation that we could make 
something happen?




You can count me in on this, just send me a personal e-mail anytime and 
we can get a starting time setup. Hopefully AIM/MSN/Jabber would be good 
ways to contact you?



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Re: VMWare on current kernels

[Greg Folkert]

On Mon, 2007-02-05 at 20:38 +0100, Elimar Riesebieter wrote:
> On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 the mental interface of
> Jan Schledermann told:
> 
> [...]
> > A significant difference between the pre-compiled 2.6.18-1-686
> > kernel and the source code, is that the source code by default
> > creates version 2.6.18 and NOT 2.6.18-1-686. This version
> > difference could cause the compile problem?
> 
> No! Since 2.6.18 we're using include/linux/utsrelease.h instead of
> include/linux/version.h. Either the vm-sources have to be patched or
> as you suggested use  a selfconfigured (compiled) kernel.

Have you applied the "vmware-any-any-XXX" updates(1)?

I get zero problems running VMware on a stock Debian kernel.


(1) http://ftp.cvut.cz/vmware/vmware-any-any-update107.tar.gz
-- 
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Novell's Directory Services is a competitive product to Microsoft's
Active Directory in much the same way that the Saturn V is a competitive
product to those dinky little model rockets that kids light off down at
the playfield. -- Thane Walkup


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Re: What UPS to buy

[Hugo Vanwoerkom]

Andrei Popescu wrote:

On Sun, 4 Feb 2007 19:44:30 -0500
Kevin Coyner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Some of APC's UPS units allow you to set the voltage sensitivity via
dip switches, some of the units allow you to set it via software, and
some don't let you adjust the sensitivity.  So if you plan to back up
your battery powered UPS with an external generator, make sure to get
a UPS with an adjustment for voltage sensitivity.


About two years ago, we had trouble at work due to an APC UPS that
would kick in every night. As we needed the computer at 5:00 AM we had
to connect the computer directly. When my boss wanted to throw away the
"faulty" UPS I took it home. After a Google search I found the User's
Manual describing the above mentioned dip-switches.

Needless to say I now have a pretty good working UPS, because of the
power fluctuations in my country and the stupidity of our IT-Service
(who couldn't figure out how to solve the problem).



Still the same battery?


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Re: VMWare on current kernels (was: debian rocks!)

[Shobhit Jindal]

some news
myself just installed kernel 2.6.18-4-686 and vmware (vmware-config.pl) was
configured without giving the error
- no linux/version.h in /usr/src/include/linux

not to mention 2.6.18-3-686 and 2.6.18-2-686 did give the error!

On 2/5/07, Margarita Manterola <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Hi!

On 2/5/07, Shobhit Jindal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 2/5/07, Bruno Buys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > The only
> > catch ins't debian related: vmware seems to not like my
> > /usr/src/include/linux, and asks for a new linux/version.h.
>
>  i have been stuck to kernel 2.6.18-1-686 for the very same reason
and
> not upgrading have searched a bit but to no avail.

I had this problem as well.  And as a pointer, I could get the latest
vmware-player to work, where the old vmware-workstation that I had did
not.

--
Besos,
Marga





--
Registerd Linux User #426561
-
Shobhit Jindal
B.Tech. Part-III,
Department Of Electronics Engineering, ITBHU
INDIA

Re: Attracting newbies (Was Booting Debian/testing fails)

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 02:07:39PM -0500, Michael Pobega wrote:
> Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> >On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 07:15:44AM -0800, Michael M. wrote:
> >
> >  
> >>"why Debian instead of Ubuntu/SuSE/Linspire/etc.?" Do that and I doubt 
> >>you'd get too many users for whom Debian probably isn't the best 
> >>choice.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >maybe our focus, as a trying-to-be-helpful user community is to
> >examine what the derivative offerings are and redirect people
> >appropriately.

> >  
> I fully agree with you.

of course! ;-)


> The one thing I really don't understand, though, is why people use 
> Ubuntu. 

bleh. responsing anyway... 

I return to the example of my mom. Many people don't want to "update"
their system. They want it to just work and stay that way. Many users,
especially novices, don't deal well with change and don't want
it. Ubuntu, if you don't upgrade, is perfect in this respect. At the
time it is released, it just works. If you leave it there, if will, of
course, just work forever.

This same thing applies in the wondows world. I work on win98 machines
quite a bit because people don't want to change (there are hardware
issues too...). 

People don't want to upgrade constantly but want instead to just go
out and buy a new computer every X-years and use whatever that new
system is. Ubuntu fits that mold nicely, IMO. Note that I have little
experience with ubuntu -- just my impression.

> Maybe if 
> Debian changed the word "/Unstable/" to something else it would bring in 
> more users? Maybe Stable, Testing, and BleedingEdge? Just my thoughts.
>

not a bad idea. although we all know that unstable is a good name for
it, it can be scary. Many people think it means their system will be
unstable (which it might) not that it refers to the state of package
movement within the release. Ummm... how about "CuttingEdge" instead
of "Bleeding Edge" or how about just refering to sid only? 

A


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Re: best terminal emulator for emacs -nw?

[Michael V. De Palatis]

Tyler,

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 03:55:05PM +, Tyler Smith wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm trying to get emacs setup for mutt and slrn. It works really well,
> except for one thing. When I use it as my editor with emacs -nw, the
> alt- key combos get muddled by xterm en route to emacs, so that I have
> to use ESC instead. Is this unavoidable, or is there a terminal
> emulator that allows for the use of meta keys?

Try adding this to your ~/.Xresoures (or ~/.Xdefaults if that is what
you have named it):

xterm*metaSendsEscape: true

That seems to work for me. I also often use (u)rxvt, but that doesn't
have a special option set (it may, however, look at the xterm options
first, in which case that might be why).

-- 
Michael V. De Palatis
Georgia Institute of Technology
School of Physics
837 State Street
Atlanta, GA 30332-0430

em vee dee at gatech dot ee dee yoo
http://mike.depalatis.net


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Re: Attracting newbies (Was Booting Debian/testing fails)

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 07:45:17PM +, Chris Lale wrote:
> Michael Pobega wrote:
> >Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> >[...]  I think in reality Debian doesn't cater to a lot of people's 
> >needs 
> 
> On the other hand, there must be a lot of people who would find Debian a 
> great solution if only they could get started.

Amen Brother!

> 
> >(The more common desktop user just wants Beryl and eye candy, whereas 
> >Debian really offers only stability), and there's really nothing we 
> >can do about it.
> 
> This may be true for gamers and the like, but stabilty and security are 
> surely more important for a large number of home users who buy online, 
> bank online, use digital cameras, etc?
> 

I disagree. Granted it *should* be that way, but I think people *want*
the whizz-bang new stuff. It may not be what they need or should have,
but it is what they want. Why else would people buy new cars every 2
years? Not because there is anything wrong with the old one except
htat its not new. I know this goes counter to my argument in the
parent thread that people using computers don't like change, but I
think it follows. They want to stick with what they know until they
can get the new whizz-bang thing and then they jump. Their needs are
not a consideration in that. If they were many many people would still
be using 486's with wp5.0 or something along those lines.

[...]> 
> >
> >The one thing I really don't understand, though, is why people use 
> >Ubuntu.
> 
> I read in a Linux magazine that Ubuntu's popularity was mainly due to a 
> vibrant community. Well, if that is the case, Debian already has that - 
> it just doesn't yet have much of a focus on "complete newbies" or 
> "BDUs". I think that Douglas's ideas for "complete computer newbies" 
> could help to fill this gap.

yup.

A


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Re: Problem connecting to Wifi network

[Justin Hartman]

Thanks Wackojacko.
To fix my problem all I had to do was add this to my interfaces file:

iface eth0 inet dhcp
wpa-ssid crcwifi
wpa-psk password

Thanks for your help!
--
Regards
Justin Hartman
PGP Key ID: 102CC123


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Re: Attracting newbies (Was Booting Debian/testing fails)

[Michael Pobega]

Andrew Sackville-West wrote:

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 02:07:39PM -0500, Michael Pobega wrote:
  
The one thing I really don't understand, though, is why people use 
Ubuntu. 



bleh. responsing anyway... 


I return to the example of my mom. Many people don't want to "update"
their system. They want it to just work and stay that way. Many users,
especially novices, don't deal well with change and don't want
it. Ubuntu, if you don't upgrade, is perfect in this respect. At the
time it is released, it just works. If you leave it there, if will, of
course, just work forever.
[...]
But it's the same way with Debian Stable/Testing. If you want a system 
that just /works/, you can run Stable. If Stable is too outdated/doesn't 
support your hardware, give Testing a run. If you really need a few 
programs (For me running Testing, I'll use checkinstall as an example) 
and don't mind a few bugs you can always install from source (Since 
everything in the repositories is GPL/BSD anyway).
Maybe if 
Debian changed the word "/Unstable/" to something else it would bring in 
more users? Maybe Stable, Testing, and BleedingEdge? Just my thoughts.





[...]  how about "CuttingEdge" instead
of "Bleeding Edge" or how about just refering to sid only? 
  
Referring to it as Sid seems like a good idea to me, but really no 
matter what it will be referred to as Unstable by the community; Which 
will probably just scare users away. The way I see it, is that the 
Debian mainsite shows that 3.1 Stable (Current) is the only "/workable/" 
release, and is very outdated. Testing (Which /apparently/ has bugs) is 
a bit more up to date, but not perfect. And Unstable will just break 
your system, but comes with the most updated programs!


In reality, running Debian Sid at this point in time is almost as 
unstable as running Ubuntu Edgy 6.10; Hell, even running Ubuntu Feisty 
7.04 is more unstable than using Sid.


I really think the mainsite has too much of an outdated, old look to it. 
I think that is one of the main things that scares people away. I mean, 
compare for yourself:


http://debian.org/
http://ubuntu.com/


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Unknown message when starting Icedove

[Niels Rasmussen]

Hi list,

I'm running debian testing etch.

I have this line in my.xsession-errors:

DOUBLE-CLICK: 400 --> -1 THRESHOLD: 8 --> -1 Warning: unrecognized command 
line flag -P


It appears everytime I start Icedove.

What does this mean ??


--
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Registred Linux user #133791
Get counted at http://counter.li.org


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Re: Re: Attracting newbies (Was Booting Debian/testing fails)

[Angelo Bertolli]

Michael M. wrote:
"why Debian instead of Ubuntu/SuSE/Linspire/etc.?" Do that and I doubt 
you'd get too many users for whom Debian probably isn't the best choice.
Well I think at the very least, we could all come up with answers to 
this for ourselves.  I know for me it involves two things:


1) Debian repositories contain a LOT of software (or maybe it's just the 
software I like).


2) Debian has the most excellent upgrade paths.

Angelo



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Re: Attracting newbies (Was Booting Debian/testing fails)

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 03:24:56PM -0500, Michael Pobega wrote:
> Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> >On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 02:07:39PM -0500, Michael Pobega wrote:
> >  
> >>The one thing I really don't understand, though, is why people use 
> >>Ubuntu. 
> >>
> >
> >bleh. responsing anyway... 
> >
> >I return to the example of my mom. Many people don't want to "update"
> >their system. They want it to just work and stay that way. Many users,
> >especially novices, don't deal well with change and don't want
> >it. Ubuntu, if you don't upgrade, is perfect in this respect. At the
> >time it is released, it just works. If you leave it there, if will, of
> >course, just work forever.
> >[...]
> But it's the same way with Debian Stable/Testing. If you want a system 
> that just /works/, you can run Stable. If Stable is too outdated/doesn't 
> support your hardware, give Testing a run. If you really need a few 
> programs (For me running Testing, I'll use checkinstall as an example) 
> and don't mind a few bugs you can always install from source (Since 
> everything in the repositories is GPL/BSD anyway).

okay, clarification. and this is no defense of ubuntu. I am
indifferent. Ubuntu has a default environment that just works and is
fully implemented. Debian does too, but its not so obvious as you have
to select it at the last stage of installation. So, yes running debian
stable (or frankly just not upgrading any install of debian at some
point where you're satisfied with it) is effectively the same
thing. But getting there is not as direct as with ubuntu. ubuntu
caters to the windows user who wants to plug in the disk and have a
full blown working desktop without any real intervening stuff. (I know
this is not reality...). In debian you can do that, but you have to
know to pick that selection at the end. If you don't you end up here
with the "I think I did something wrong because all I get is 'login:'"
emails. 

Alright, I'm losing track of my thoughts now. bleh. let it go. We all
agree, it needs to be easier for newbs without giving up the soul of
debian ;)

A


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Re: Attracting newbies (Was Booting Debian/testing fails)

[Michael Pobega]

Andrew Sackville-West wrote:

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 03:24:56PM -0500, Michael Pobega wrote:
  

Andrew Sackville-West wrote:


On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 02:07:39PM -0500, Michael Pobega wrote:
 
  
The one thing I really don't understand, though, is why people use 
Ubuntu. 
   

bleh. responsing anyway... 


I return to the example of my mom. Many people don't want to "update"
their system. They want it to just work and stay that way. Many users,
especially novices, don't deal well with change and don't want
it. Ubuntu, if you don't upgrade, is perfect in this respect. At the
time it is released, it just works. If you leave it there, if will, of
course, just work forever.
[...]
  
But it's the same way with Debian Stable/Testing. If you want a system 
that just /works/, you can run Stable. If Stable is too outdated/doesn't 
support your hardware, give Testing a run. If you really need a few 
programs (For me running Testing, I'll use checkinstall as an example) 
and don't mind a few bugs you can always install from source (Since 
everything in the repositories is GPL/BSD anyway).



okay, clarification. and this is no defense of ubuntu. I am
indifferent. Ubuntu has a default environment that just works and is
fully implemented. Debian does too, but its not so obvious as you have
to select it at the last stage of installation. So, yes running debian
stable (or frankly just not upgrading any install of debian at some
point where you're satisfied with it) is effectively the same
thing. But getting there is not as direct as with ubuntu. ubuntu
caters to the windows user who wants to plug in the disk and have a
full blown working desktop without any real intervening stuff. (I know
this is not reality...). In debian you can do that, but you have to
know to pick that selection at the end. If you don't you end up here
with the "I think I did something wrong because all I get is 'login:'"
emails. 


Alright, I'm losing track of my thoughts now. bleh. let it go. We all
agree, it needs to be easier for newbs without giving up the soul of
debian ;)

A
  
I agree with you, I'm not one of those people who are completely against 
Ubuntu; I think just anything you can accomplish in Ubuntu you can 
accomplish in Debian, and probably more effectively/easily.


As for the newbie documentation, we should definitely get something 
together. Everyone who is interested email me at my personal emailing 
just to say "Aie!". Drop me an AIM/MSN/Jabber contact so I can reach you 
beyond email if possible.


I don't plan on heading this documentation, though. I just want to try 
to get everyone involved in it, because I feel at the rate we're going 
now it's going to end up being just me and one other person.



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Re: best terminal emulator for emacs -nw?

[Gnu_Raiz]

>From: Tyler Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Wrote one day while in band camp:
> I'm trying to get emacs setup for mutt and slrn. It works really well,
> except for one thing. When I use it as my editor with emacs -nw, the
> alt- key combos get muddled by xterm en route to emacs, so that I have
> to use ESC instead. Is this unavoidable, or is there a terminal
> emulator that allows for the use of meta keys?

I assume you know about gnus right? Some would say that using slrn, and 
mutt with emacs is heresy!

You might want to try the emacswiki it has some good knowledge, if your 
really up for some abuse try the emacs irc channel on freenode. Most will 
probably point you to the wiki, and laugh unless you find a kind soul who 
will help you. But your probably going to get a lot of questions about 
the "proper way to use gnus". This might be what your looking for!

http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/XtermExtras

Gnu_Raiz


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Re: best terminal emulator for emacs -nw?

[Thomas Dickey]

Gnu_Raiz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>>From: Tyler Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Wrote one day while in band camp:
>> I'm trying to get emacs setup for mutt and slrn. It works really well,
>> except for one thing. When I use it as my editor with emacs -nw, the
>> alt- key combos get muddled by xterm en route to emacs, so that I have
>> to use ESC instead. Is this unavoidable, or is there a terminal
>> emulator that allows for the use of meta keys?

> I assume you know about gnus right? Some would say that using slrn, and 
> mutt with emacs is heresy!

some people seem to like the color scheme

(mutt and tin with ncurses here, editing with vile ;-)

> You might want to try the emacswiki it has some good knowledge, if your 
> really up for some abuse try the emacs irc channel on freenode. Most will 
> probably point you to the wiki, and laugh unless you find a kind soul who 
> will help you. But your probably going to get a lot of questions about 
> the "proper way to use gnus". This might be what your looking for!

> http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/XtermExtras

That looks like enough for him to start on.  Even _newer_ xterm can do
more.  Perhaps some Emacs user will make a package using xterm's
modifyOtherKeys escape sequence - see notes starting here:

http://invisible-island.net/xterm/xterm.log.html#xterm_216

Anyway - he shouldn't _have_ to use ESC (with xterm).

-- 
Thomas E. Dickey
http://invisible-island.net
ftp://invisible-island.net


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Re: Sound jerking with via 82xx soundcard

[Atis]

On 2/5/07, Raffaele Morelli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


>
> Artsd is nothing wrong, it's just used for KDE sounds.. none of
> players tried was using it. For being sure, i just killed it before
> next tests.
>
> Just tried mplayer, surprisingly it played almost normal (lag every 5
> or so seconds :D), i set verbosity to 5, and got some output at moment
> of lag (see below).
>
> >From this i suspect it could be some kind of buffering problem. As i
> understand, it's  lagging when it cant play some larger chunk, so it's
> trying smaller and smaller..
>
> Anyone have any ideas what buffer i could check/increase?
>
> Regards,
> Atis.

Hi
I had similar problems with kde sound system, noatun, kaffeine... which
disappeared when I configured kde not to deal with sound at all.

Why don't you use alsa?

regards


Im having troubles under alsa.. therefor everything that uses it (arts
or /dev/dsp emulation) also inherits it... Anyway, it doesn't matter
much now, as i bought Audigy and 5.1 speakers.. now playing with
asoundrc...

Regards,
Atis


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[no subject]

[Andrew Critchlow]

I have a question which I have searched the internet and cannot find anything 
about this issue:When a user logs into the debian box they get "You Have 
newmail"For some reason there isn't a space in between 'new' and 'mail'. Anyone 
know how to correct this? Thanks

Re: Xorg will not start -- Success report

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 02:55:40PM -0500, Ken Heard wrote:
> 
> The key question is why did the installer on the Etch RC1 CDROM not 
> install all the dependencies of the xserver-xorg?  Only three were 
> installed: x-server-xorg-core, and two others which I did not need: 
> x-server-imputs-acecad and x-server-video-apm.  The ones I did need I 
> had to install myself.

I think this was reported before on this list (heh, maybe it was your
thread). Apparently there was some bug floating around that caused
this. 

> 
> A few days later I used the same build of Etch RC1 to install it from 
> scratch on my laptop.  All the dependencies of x-server-xorg were 
> installed, and on first boot X.org was loaded without needing any manual 
> configuration on my part.

so why did it work the second time from the same build... I believe
the installer does an update before you get to the package selection
stage and perhaps this was fixed so that the update would catch the
problem and fix it. guessing there.

congrats on solving the problem.

A



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Re: Attracting newbies (Was Booting Debian/testing fails)

[Steve Mazurek]

Good points, but the people who don't or don't want to upgrade aren't just
people who are afraid to change.  A friend who first introduced me to Debian
still uses Woody.  He hasn't upgraded because he downloaded a lot of
packages and upgrading would require more time than he has available.  I'd
like to dist-upgrade to etch, but I'll wait until it becomes officially
stable.  Right now, i just don't have the time to tinker with it.

--Steve Mazurek

On 2/5/07, Andrew Sackville-West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 02:07:39PM -0500, Michael Pobega wrote:
> Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> >On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 07:15:44AM -0800, Michael M. wrote:
> >
> >
> >>"why Debian instead of Ubuntu/SuSE/Linspire/etc.?" Do that and I doubt
> >>you'd get too many users for whom Debian probably isn't the best
> >>choice.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >maybe our focus, as a trying-to-be-helpful user community is to
> >examine what the derivative offerings are and redirect people
> >appropriately.

> >
> I fully agree with you.

of course! ;-)


> The one thing I really don't understand, though, is why people use
> Ubuntu.

bleh. responsing anyway...

I return to the example of my mom. Many people don't want to "update"
their system. They want it to just work and stay that way. Many users,
especially novices, don't deal well with change and don't want
it. Ubuntu, if you don't upgrade, is perfect in this respect. At the
time it is released, it just works. If you leave it there, if will, of
course, just work forever.

This same thing applies in the wondows world. I work on win98 machines
quite a bit because people don't want to change (there are hardware
issues too...).

People don't want to upgrade constantly but want instead to just go
out and buy a new computer every X-years and use whatever that new
system is. Ubuntu fits that mold nicely, IMO. Note that I have little
experience with ubuntu -- just my impression.

> Maybe if
> Debian changed the word "/Unstable/" to something else it would bring in
> more users? Maybe Stable, Testing, and BleedingEdge? Just my thoughts.
>

not a bad idea. although we all know that unstable is a good name for
it, it can be scary. Many people think it means their system will be
unstable (which it might) not that it refers to the state of package
movement within the release. Ummm... how about "CuttingEdge" instead
of "Bleeding Edge" or how about just refering to sid only?

A

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system freezes with Matrox G400 and GLX

[Jonas Meurer]

Hello,

I use a Matrox G400 DH as graphics controller, and i run debian/unstable
on an amd64 system.

Unfortunately this leads to system freezes when i try to use 3d
rendering (GLX).

Some examples which do always freeze my system are xmms visualisations,
tuxkart and mixxx.

Do you have any suggestions where to start debugging? Is this a glx/mesa
bug, or a kernel mga driver bug, or a hardware problem?

Here is my system information:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ uname -a
Linux resivo 2.6.18-8-amd64-resivo #1 Sat Feb 3 08:52:31 CET 2007 x86_64 
GNU/Linux

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ lspci
00:00.0 Host bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8385 [K8T800 AGP] Host Bridge 
(rev 01)
00:01.0 PCI bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8237 PCI bridge [K8T800/K8T890 
South]
00:06.0 USB Controller: NEC Corporation USB (rev 43)
00:06.1 USB Controller: NEC Corporation USB (rev 43)
00:06.2 USB Controller: NEC Corporation USB 2.0 (rev 04)
00:07.0 Multimedia video controller: Internext Compression Inc iTVC15 MPEG-2 
Encoder (rev 01)
00:0b.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL-8169 Gigabit 
Ethernet (rev 10)
00:0d.0 RAID bus controller: Promise Technology, Inc. PDC20378 (FastTrak 
378/SATA 378) (rev 02)
00:0e.0 FireWire (IEEE 1394): VIA Technologies, Inc. IEEE 1394 Host Controller 
(rev 80)
00:0f.0 RAID bus controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VIA VT6420 SATA RAID 
Controller (rev 80)
00:0f.1 IDE interface: VIA Technologies, Inc. 
VT82C586A/B/VT82C686/A/B/VT823x/A/C PIPC Bus Master IDE (rev 06)
00:10.0 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82x UHCI USB 1.1 
Controller (rev 81)
00:10.1 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82x UHCI USB 1.1 
Controller (rev 81)
00:10.2 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82x UHCI USB 1.1 
Controller (rev 81)
00:10.3 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82x UHCI USB 1.1 
Controller (rev 81)
00:10.4 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. USB 2.0 (rev 86)
00:11.0 ISA bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8237 ISA bridge 
[KT600/K8T800/K8T890 South]
00:11.5 Multimedia audio controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8233/A/8235/8237 
AC97 Audio Controller (rev 60)
00:18.0 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] 
HyperTransport Technology Configuration
00:18.1 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] Address 
Map
00:18.2 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] DRAM 
Controller
00:18.3 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] 
Miscellaneous Control
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: Matrox Graphics, Inc. MGA G400/G450 (rev 04)

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ glxinfo
name of display: :0.0
display: :0  screen: 0
direct rendering: Yes
server glx vendor string: SGI
server glx version string: 1.2
server glx extensions:
GLX_ARB_multisample, GLX_EXT_visual_info, GLX_EXT_visual_rating,
GLX_EXT_import_context, GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap, GLX_OML_swap_method,
GLX_SGI_make_current_read, GLX_SGIS_multisample, GLX_SGIX_hyperpipe,
GLX_SGIX_swap_barrier, GLX_SGIX_fbconfig, GLX_MESA_copy_sub_buffer
client glx vendor string: SGI
client glx version string: 1.4
client glx extensions:
GLX_ARB_get_proc_address, GLX_ARB_multisample, GLX_EXT_import_context,
GLX_EXT_visual_info, GLX_EXT_visual_rating, GLX_MESA_allocate_memory,
GLX_MESA_copy_sub_buffer, GLX_MESA_swap_control,
GLX_MESA_swap_frame_usage, GLX_OML_swap_method, GLX_OML_sync_control,
GLX_SGI_make_current_read, GLX_SGI_swap_control, GLX_SGI_video_sync,
GLX_SGIS_multisample, GLX_SGIX_fbconfig, GLX_SGIX_pbuffer,
GLX_SGIX_visual_select_group, GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap
GLX version: 1.2
GLX extensions:
GLX_ARB_get_proc_address, GLX_ARB_multisample, GLX_EXT_import_context,
GLX_EXT_visual_info, GLX_EXT_visual_rating, GLX_MESA_swap_control,
GLX_MESA_swap_frame_usage, GLX_OML_swap_method, GLX_SGI_make_current_read,
GLX_SGI_video_sync, GLX_SGIS_multisample, GLX_SGIX_fbconfig
OpenGL vendor string: VA Linux Systems Inc.
OpenGL renderer string: Mesa DRI G400 20050609 AGP 1x
OpenGL version string: 1.2 Mesa 6.5.1
OpenGL extensions:
GL_ARB_multisample, GL_ARB_multitexture, GL_ARB_texture_compression,
GL_ARB_texture_env_add, GL_ARB_texture_env_combine,
GL_ARB_texture_env_crossbar, GL_ARB_texture_rectangle,
GL_ARB_transpose_matrix, GL_ARB_vertex_program, GL_ARB_window_pos,
GL_EXT_abgr, GL_EXT_bgra, GL_EXT_blend_logic_op, GL_EXT_clip_volume_hint,
GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array, GL_EXT_copy_texture,
GL_EXT_draw_range_elements, GL_EXT_fog_coord, GL_EXT_multi_draw_arrays,
GL_EXT_packed_pixels, GL_EXT_polygon_offset, GL_EXT_rescale_normal,
GL_EXT_secondary_color, GL_EXT_separate_specular_color,
GL_EXT_stencil_wrap, GL_EXT_subtexture, GL_EXT_texture, GL_EXT_texture3D,
GL_EXT_texture_edge_clamp, GL_EXT_texture_env_add,
GL_EXT_texture_env_combine, GL_EXT_texture_object,
GL_EXT_texture_rectangle, GL_EXT_vertex_array, GL_APPLE_packed_pixels,
GL_ATI_texture_env_combine3, GL_IBM_r