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[John Bradley]

Re: OT: Aliens in the heavans (was Re: seti@home)

[Remy Indebetouw]

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Nathan E Norman wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 08:38:54PM -0300, Daniel Toffetti wrote:
> >
> > Can you please explain what do WV and bwy stands for ? I know this is
> > way off-topic, but it's funny anyway and don't want to miss a thing :)
>
> WV = West Virginia, home of (among other things) Sen Robert Byrd, who
> has made some really hilarious speeches from the Senate floor (for
> instance, he mops the kitchen floor for his wife).

interesting place for this thread to wind up, since it was Byrd got
congress to build one of the best new radio telescopes in the country.
dunno how much it'll get used for SETI, but probably some.  one of the
other biggest new projects in radio astronomy, the Allen telescope
(yes, the same Allen of the evil empire, he's paying for it) will be
primarily used for SETI.  whatever we're listening for, we're soon to
start listening even more carefully (and do some good astrophysics on
the side)

Re: Still looking to replace Eudora

[Craig Dickson]

begin  Eric G. Miller  quotation:

> On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 05:11:12PM -0800, Bill Moseley wrote:
>
> > I just didn't realize how set in my ways I am.
> > 
> > I've tried for X: Kmail, Evolution, Sylpheed, and Mahogany.  Something
> > else I can't remember.  They all seem fine.
> > 
> > Maybe it's a config setting I've missed, but what I miss is having the
> > messages open in their own windows (yet still inside the main Eudora
> > window).  The reason is I like to work with my mail as a single unit
> > (single window), but I like to keep a bunch of messages open at the
> > same time that I'm working on.
> 
> The window(s) within a containing window paradigm is generally not found
> in X programs.  I don't think it's even part of most (any?) toolkits.

If he's referring to the MS Windows Multiple Document Interface (MDI),
you don't even find that in most Windows programs anymore. Microsoft
promoted it back in the Windows 3.x period, but it is conspicuous by its
absence in the Windows 95+/NT4+ interfaces. Compare the MDI-based
Windows 3.x File Manager with the Windows 95+ Explorer, where you open
separate windows if you want to see two directories at once.

Craig


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RE: VPN on Kernel 2.4.18

[Dave Scott]

Thanks Vector.

Ok, I worked on this some more.

I built up a test system with

Debian 2.2 Kernel 2.4.18 on it.
I compiled in all the GRE stuff and such to allow all PPTP and GRE
traffic through.

I then got Masq up and running.
Then I forwarded port 1723 and Protocol 47 to my Internal windows 2000
server using these commands.

iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -i eth0 -p TCP -d (public IP) --dport 1723
-j DNAT --to 10.10.10.5:1723

iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -i eth0 -p 47 -d (public IP) -j DNAT --to
10.10.10.5

I then tested the PPTP connection using a Windows XP computer out on the
Internet and whohoo it connected.

I could then browse the Windows 2000 Server remotely.

So, from what it looks like, the new Kernel can do everything the old
Kernel couldn't do unless it was patched and stuff.

Now I need to figure out how to really use IpTables because I have a
sneaking supission that my firewall isn't really secure right now.

I also want to try the pptpd route, but for now I think this will work,
security isn't a real big problem where this will be installed, unless
the hacker can get root access with it.

-Dave



-Original Message-
From: Vector [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 4:39 PM
To: Jeff; Debian User
Subject: Re: VPN on Kernel 2.4.18


- Original Message -
From: "Jeff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Debian User" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 10:53 PM
Subject: Re: VPN on Kernel 2.4.18


> Dave Scott, 2002-Mar-06 15:30 -0800:
> > Thanks Jeff.
> >
> > Wow, I thought this was going to be an easy task. :(
> > Surely there must be thousands of others that have done just this.
> >
> >   |-|
> > |-|Client(9x,2K)|
> > | |-|
> > | |DSL Modem
> > | |
> > | |
> > | |-|
> > | |-Internet|
> > | |-|
> > | |
> > VPN |
> > | |Public IP
> > | |--|Nat   ||
> > | |Firewall--|--|Workstations|
> > | |--Debian 2.2 W2.4Kernel---|  ||
> > | |--|  192.168.0.10-200
> > | NAT |192.168.0.1
> > | |
> > | |
> > | ||
> > | |---Windows NT 4.0 Server|
> > |-|---PP2P Installed---|
> >   ||
> >192.168.0.2
> >
> > Need up to 6 VPN connections to the NT Server
> > Is this possible.  Or is there just a better way to go about this.
> > They don't have any money for Cisco or Hard Firewall.
> >
> > At first I was going to use 2.2 Kernel because I read if you
recompile
> > the kernel and install ipfwd you can GRE multi connections across,
but
> > now I just read that 2.4 hasn't been configured to allow multi
connects
> > across, but the date of the article is old.
> > Oh how confusing this is.
> >
> >
> > Cheers
> > -Dave
>
> Nice work on the ascii diagram!  :-)
>
> Personally, I wouldn't use GRE for a VPN for the reasons I stated
> on my previous response.  I'd say you have 2 solutions worth
> considering:
>

Um, OK..When was the last time you setup PPTP through a firewall.
It doesn't exactly work like "just forward 1723 thorugh your firewall
and your all set."  PPTP uses GRE protocol number 47.  IPSec uses
protocol 50.  Does ipchains support 'forwarding' this through the
firewall?  Nay, I say...been there done that.  If you are using a
2.2.x kernel and you are running ipchains, the ONLY way to make this
work is:
1: If you have more than one address on the public net, and you aren't
doing policy based routing or 'true NAT' then the ONLY ip you can use
for the forwarded PPTP connections and GRE is the one that is actually
being masqueraded for the internal machines (e.g. internal machines
internet connection appear to come from address X on the remote host,
then you had better do your port forwarding through ip X and not any
other or it won't work).
2: Download and install John Hardin's VPN kernel patch.  Patch your
kernel source and follow the directions on building your kernel in the
linux VPN how-to.
3: Now that you have setup tcp port 1723 to forward to the internal
PPTP server AND you have built a custom kernel with support for pptp
masquerading, you download and install the latest version of ipfwd
which is a small utiltiy used only to masquerade protocols unknown to
ipchains (namely in this case protcol numbers 47 and 50).  Also set
this up according to the VPN howto (e.g. bash # ipfwd --masq
192.168.0.99 47 &).  After that is done, you might try it and see if
you can get a connection.

The fine point that the VPN howto leaves out is that the reply traffic
from the internal vpn box must come from the same IP as the external
address you are connecting to.  Also, the fine points of actually
doing this wih a linux 2.2.x kernel is what is kind of the pain.  The
message I'm responding to seems to do the same thing; glosses over all
issues in doing this with a 2.2.x kernel.

ve

Tulip not installing

[timothy bauscher]

2.2r5 Potato Installation:

After configuring PCMCIA support and seeing
the lights activate on my Netgear FA511 card,
I tried to install the Tulip module via the
"net modules" screen. These are the errors
which I received:

--

/lib/modules/2.2.19/net/tulip.o: init_module: Device or resource busy
Hint: this error can be caused by incorrect module parameters, including
invalid IO or IRQ parameters
/lib/modules/2.2.19/net/tulip.o: insmod /lib/modules/2.2.19/net/tulip.o
failed
/lib/modules/2.2.19/net/tulip.o: insmod tulip failed

--

Assuming that this is a problem with Potato,
and not my own ignorance, has this been fixed
in the Woody or Sid releases?

(==timothy==)

Re: x-forwarding with ssh

[Oki DZ]

Tom Cook wrote:

Vineet Kumar wrote:
[snip]


Also, please, please, PLEASE! DON'T do this:

local$ ssh remote
remote$ export DISPLAY=local:0 # DON'T EVER DO THIS!!!
remote$ xterm

As others have already explained. You might as well be using telnet.
This defeats the entire purpose of tunneling. What you'd be doing in
this case is telling the remote x client to connect directly to the
local x server using the unencrypted X protocol. If the local X server
even accepts it (woody and sid have been told not to, by default) all
the traffic sent over that connection is in the clear -- might as well
just be telnet.



My apologies for suggesting this earlier - if I had thought about it I
would have realised it is bad, but obviously I didn't think.


Makes me wondering what is all about with this ssh thing.
I believe that once you have to set up the DISPLAY, there's something 
wrong with the installation. If I remember correctly, what was needed 
was to make sure that the server and the client run the same version; 
SSH 1 and 2 are not compatible.


BTW, my /etc/ssh2/ssh2_config, just in case you want to compare things:

# ssh2_config
# SSH 2.0 Client Configuration File

*:
Port22
Ciphers AnyStdCipher
IdentityFileidentification
AuthorizationFile   authorization
RandomSeedFile  random_seed
VerboseMode no
#PasswordPrompt "[EMAIL PROTECTED]'s password: "
PasswordPrompt  "%U's password: "
#LocalForward   "110:pop3.ssh.fi:110"
#RemoteForward  "3000:foobar:22"
Ssh1AgentCompatibility  none
#Ssh1AgentCompatibility traditional
#Ssh1AgentCompatibility ssh2
#SshSignerPath  ssh-signer2
NoDelay no
KeepAlive   yes

The following is the server part (/etc/ssh2/sshd2_config):
# sshd2_config
# SSH 2.0 Server Configuration File

*:
Port22
ListenAddress   0.0.0.0
Ciphers AnyStd
#   Ciphers AnyCipher
#   Ciphers AnyStdCipher
#   Ciphers 3des
IdentityFileidentification
AuthorizationFile   authorization
HostKeyFile hostkey
PublicHostKeyFile   hostkey.pub
RandomSeedFile  random_seed
ForwardAgentyes
ForwardX11  yes
# DEPRECATEDPasswordAuthentication  yes
PasswordGuesses 3
#   MaxConnections  50
# 0 == number of connections not limited
MaxConnections  0
#   PermitRootLogin nopwd
PermitRootLogin yes
# DEPRECATEDPubkeyAuthenticationyes
#   AllowedAuthentications  publickey,password,hostbased
AllowedAuthentications  publickey,password
#   RequiredAuthentications publickey,password
ForcePTTYAllocation no
VerboseMode no
PrintMotd   yes
CheckMail   yes
UserConfigDirectory "%D/.ssh2"
#   UserConfigDirectory "/etc/ssh2/auth/%U"
SyslogFacility  AUTH
#   SyslogFacility  LOCAL7
Ssh1Compatibility   yes
#   Sshd1Path   
#   AllowHosts  localhost, foobar.com, friendly.org
#   DenyHosts   evil.org, aol.com
#   AllowSHosts trusted.host.org
#   DenySHosts  not.quite.trusted.org
#   NoDelay yes

#   KeepAlive   yes
RequireReverseMapping   yes
UserKnownHosts  yes

# subsystem definitions

subsystem-sftp  sftp-server


Oki

Re: Open Office in unstable?

[Dave Thayer]

On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 02:15:09AM +0100, Coen De Roover wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I haven't tried those packages yet, but wasn't succesful in installing
> OpenOffice using the installer from www.openoffice.org: 
> it opened two full size windows (one blue and one gray) and displayed a
> textless message box with two buttons (OK and Cancel, I presume since no
> text was visible). Any attempts to continue the installation from that
> point failed.
> 

Does your video card use a S3 Savage chip? If so, have a look at
 where they talk about
StarOffice problems.

HTH

dt

-- 
Dave Thayer   | If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about
Denver, Colorado USA  | cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | the time, for no good reason. - Jack Handey

Re: The future of Debian install??

[Oki DZ]

Francisco M. Marzoa Alonso wrote:
Well, I don't know how RH goes now, but the first RH distribution I test 
about seven years ago (4.x or so...) has an installation like the one Debian 
has today. 


The install part on RH is better than what's in Debian, even today; 
especially when it goes to X. I never said that fresh install in Debian 
was easier. On Debian, it is a _lot_ easier when installing individual 
package; in my case, using apt-get.


Keep on mind that everyone can configure this distribution; its not a matter 
of brain, its a matter of TIME, and there's a lot of people that needs a 
computer to do things very different that spent time configuring the SO, 
specially if they're not computer technicians; they do NOT NEED to know 


Well, I believe that given the same task, if somebody can do it faster, 
then there's something in the brain.


nothing about the underlaying technology as, in example, a JAVA programmer DO 
NOT NEED to know nothing about x86 assembler or an x86 assembler programmer 
DO NOT NEED to know the machine codes of each mnemonic.


I believe that on installing a fresh Debian system, X is the barrier 
that you have to overcome; if in fact you needed to run X.


BTW, in the homepage, it is stated that the friendly UI is the shell; 
even for beginners.

In http://packages.debian.org/unstable:
Shells
Command shells. Friendly user interfaces for beginners.

So, regarding X on Debian, X is extra; something that you have to deal 
with to pass the beginner stage. It's a bit different with other Linux 
systems; on others, you'd get into X (pretty automatically) and then go 
to the command shells when they are ready. On Debian, you go to the 
shell first; at least to learn what "ls" is. Later, when you need 
something fancy (like others), you have to install X (pretty manually, 
espescially on XF86Config).


I believe that the Debian approach is better, in terms of learning; 
well, you might learn that "X" stands for "X Window System", and not "X 
Windows System". Or, learning something simple; that "ls" thing. I 
suspect, there are some RH users who don't know what "ls" is; of course 
it doesn't quite matter, especially when everything runs smoothly. But 
once a while (eg: due to electrical spike), the systems are hosed, X is 
gone; in that moment, you might need "ls".


On the other hand, if you need, or simply want, to learn how an X Server its 
configured from scratch (or how obtain milk directly from a cow instead from 
the bottle...), you still will be able to learn it with or without the 
existence of an automatic setup program.


Thing is, I believe that people wouldn't go manual if they could do it 
automatically. Well, some people may like to do it manually; you can ask 
Debian users. And I think they have learned what "X" is.


When computers used perfored cards to store information, holes was performed 
by a device; but I think you could use a pin and do it by hand...


Finally, I'll like to know everything about every field, but none lives 
forever. 


None lives forever... but to know everything, actually all you need to 
do is to go in silence; in all there is silence, and in silence there is 
all.


If Debian has have a better (call it "easier" or "faster" or so...) 
setup system, I've had migrate to it from years ago.


You flamed on things that I didn't say. All I say was: Debian is better 
compared to RH on installing packages. You know, apt-get is not for 
installing fresh systems; APT: A Package Tool.


One thing I don't like about .rpm is that - hmm... I have to say it 
again - the package installer spits out the names of the files to 
install when it doesn't find other package(s) to install. So, you'd have 
a big problem, where could you get that individual file with a name 
ending with ".o"? So you search it on the net; you might find one... too 
bad, the link doesn't say about the name of the .rpm package where the 
file is included.


On apt, it tells you the package names to install, and better yet, if 
you are connected, apt downloads you the needed packages (and then 
install the downloaded packages, and download some more if the installed 
ones are depending on othe packages, and then install...).


Oki

Re: Still looking to replace Eudora

[Bill Moseley]

On Thursday 07 March 2002 07:01 pm, Eric G. Miller wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 05:11:12PM -0800, Bill Moseley wrote:

> > Maybe it's a config setting I've missed, but what I miss is having the
> > messages open in their own windows (yet still inside the main Eudora
> > window).  The reason is I like to work with my mail as a single unit
> > (single window), but I like to keep a bunch of messages open at the
> > same time that I'm working on.
>
> The window(s) within a containing window paradigm is generally not found
> in X programs.  I don't think it's even part of most (any?) toolkits.

That's what I wondered.  

I'll try the trick of using a separate desktop for my mail.  So far, with 
multiple windows, it gets cluttered too fast.  The windows-inside-a-window 
thing was nice in Eudora -- let me have a real messy email window that could 
all be moved as a single unit.

I'll get used to it.

Thanks for everyone's time.


-- 
Bill Moseley

Re: apt-get build-deps or -b switch

[Sean 'Shaleh' Perry]

> 
> I've written hundreds, probably thousands of lines of reports
> complaints etc.  Received piles of helpful replies.  And still no
> stable sytem in working order. 
> 

Woody may not quite be ready yet.  Maybe you need time too.  I hope you give it
another try some time.  Good luck wherever the path leads.

As an aside and to make you feel a little better I would like to tell a story
about how I came to Debian.

As the 2.0 kernel was being finished I was a freshman in college.  Had been
using a computer for about 6 months or so and was working at an ISP doing phone
support and had been assisting with admin chores for a few weeks.  I decided a
great way to learn more about unix was to have one at home.

I went to a Barnes and Noble and bought a linux book.  At the time these were
mighty tomes by Sams that explained all about Slackware.  How to install, what
tcl/tk was, how to compile a program, setup X.  Literally all of linux was
explained.  I read the book and followed the install instructions on my 486
dx2/66 with 16mb of RAM (I upgraded for this from 8).  Everything was going
well, even had X working after calling support for my monitor and getting my
modelines (I was cared to death of ruining my monitor).  Then the snag happened
-- ppp just would not work.  I used the install kernel, I compiled my own. 
Every damn time I would get "no ppp support in kernel".  It drove me mad.  I
posted on news groups and on lists to no avail.  Everyone said "compile your
kernel again".  I got so mad I reinstalled win95 on top of it.  That cd was
only a few months old.

6 months later I was in the CS department of my college and was doing daily
admin on the BSD machines at work.  The admin I worked with was mocking me.  So
since my Slackware cd was out of date (the book was on sale because the contents
were stale) I went hunting for a new set. www.cheapbytes.com was the answer.  4
bucks, 4 Debian cd's.  Source and all. Bo was to be my first Debian install. 
Install went a little smoother.  My machine also had 32 mb of RAM (work was
upgrading and I got the old sticks). Then once again ppp mocked me.  Harassed
me.  Once again "no ppp support in kernel".  My monitor almost went through the
window.  Determined not to fail I went to the Debian website and found the
debian-user list.  My first few responses were like linux kernel "just compile
it again, you missed something".

Then another poster said he had seen this before.  The real culprit was the
permissions on my modem were wrong so it was trying to dialout with
/dev/console.  Sure enough, there is no support in the kernel for using
consoles as ppp devices.  I was bitten by a bad error condition and a weird
edge case.  Over the weeks I received more help.  Eventually I gave that help
back over and over.  Then I wanted programs I used packaged and became a
developer.

The point of this is not "Debian is your saviour, repent".  My point is
sometimes you come in at the wrong time.  Out time, your time, it doesn't
matter.  Just don't give up.

Re: Open Office in unstable?

[Geoff D]

 --- Coen De Roover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi,
> 
> I haven't tried those packages yet, but wasn't
> succesful in installing
> OpenOffice using the installer from
> www.openoffice.org: 
> it opened two full size windows (one blue and one
> gray) and displayed a
> textless message box with two buttons (OK and
> Cancel, I presume since no
> text was visible). Any attempts to continue the
> installation from that
> point failed.
> 
> However, some of my friends (who're also using
> Woody) don't have this
> problem.
> 
> Solutions are welcome :)
> 

I had a problem installing the latest version of
OpenOffice (641c).  I use Window Maker as my window
manager and for some reason OpenOffice would not
install.  Don't ask me why but I tried to install it
under Gnome and hey presto it worked.

That was good but I am not a fan of Microsoft desktop
look-a-likes so I recompiled Window Maker using a deb
source package making sure Gnome support was compiled
in.  Hey presto OpenOffice started working under
Window Maker. I can only assume Sun has started
intergrating StarOffice into Gnome like they said they
would when the Gnome Club, or whatever it is called,
was formed.

Anyways, hope this helps.

Cheers Geoff




http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

Re: Tulip not installing

[Nathan E Norman]

On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 11:58:57PM -0500, timothy bauscher wrote:
> 2.2r5 Potato Installation:
> 
> After configuring PCMCIA support and seeing
> the lights activate on my Netgear FA511 card,
> I tried to install the Tulip module via the
> "net modules" screen. These are the errors
> which I received:
> 
> --
> 
> /lib/modules/2.2.19/net/tulip.o: init_module: Device or resource busy
> Hint: this error can be caused by incorrect module parameters, including
> invalid IO or IRQ parameters
> /lib/modules/2.2.19/net/tulip.o: insmod /lib/modules/2.2.19/net/tulip.o
> failed
> /lib/modules/2.2.19/net/tulip.o: insmod tulip failed
> 
> --
> 
> Assuming that this is a problem with Potato,
> and not my own ignorance, has this been fixed
> in the Woody or Sid releases?

I'm guessing yes, but that's a guess.  Here's link for you to try to
get it working now ...

http://lists.debian.org/debian-laptop/2001/debian-laptop-200112/msg00059.html

and just follow the thread.

-- 
Nathan Norman - Staff Engineer | A good plan today is better
Micromuse Ltd. | than a perfect plan tomorrow.
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]   |   -- Patton


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Re: Still looking to replace Eudora

[Joe]

On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 08:53:17PM -0800, Craig Dickson wrote:
> begin  Eric G. Miller  quotation:
> 
> > On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 05:11:12PM -0800, Bill Moseley wrote:
> >
> > > I just didn't realize how set in my ways I am.
> > > 
> > > I've tried for X: Kmail, Evolution, Sylpheed, and Mahogany.  Something
> > > else I can't remember.  They all seem fine.
> > > 
> > > Maybe it's a config setting I've missed, but what I miss is having the
> > > messages open in their own windows (yet still inside the main Eudora
> > > window).  The reason is I like to work with my mail as a single unit
> > > (single window), but I like to keep a bunch of messages open at the
> > > same time that I'm working on.
> > 
> > The window(s) within a containing window paradigm is generally not found
> > in X programs.  I don't think it's even part of most (any?) toolkits.
> 
> If he's referring to the MS Windows Multiple Document Interface (MDI),
> you don't even find that in most Windows programs anymore. Microsoft
> promoted it back in the Windows 3.x period, but it is conspicuous by its
> absence in the Windows 95+/NT4+ interfaces. Compare the MDI-based
> Windows 3.x File Manager with the Windows 95+ Explorer, where you open
> separate windows if you want to see two directories at once.
> 

I'm not entirely familiar with this MDI interface, and my examples are
probably built a little outside the standard X toolkits, but what 
about the tabs in Mozilla, Galeon, & Opera? In Opera they can be tiled
or cascaded within the main Opera window. Not sure if Mozilla Mail can
do that.

but I'm pretty sure Mutt won't!

-CraigW

Re: NEWBIE TIP #110 [was Re: suggestion[data in .sig file]]

[Osamu Aoki]

On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 01:37:56PM -0600, Dimitri Maziuk wrote:
> * Dimitri Maziuk ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) spake thusly:
> 4. this whole mess is signed with *my* name and e-mail address, and
> 5. NOBODY TOLD ME THEY WERE GOING TO PUT MY NAME ON IT.

When people like me volunteered to summarize information on the web (ML
archive included), we have limited resource to verify its "currentness"
and consent to use as a quotation.

Best practice is to ask original poster its quoted content, which I
admit I have not yet done in some case.  Call me lazy but ...

Anyway, it was interesting.  this was not "my document" but quite
thought provoking for me :)  I would be concered as you are, if I am in
your shoes.

-- 
~\^o^/~~~ ~\^.^/~~~ ~\^*^/~~~ ~\^_^/~~~ ~\^+^/~~~ ~\^:^/~~~ ~\^v^/~~~ +
Osamu Aoki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, GnuPG-key: 1024D/D5DE453D
Visit Debian reference http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/quick-reference/
There are 6 files: index.{en|fr|it}.html quick-reference.{en|fr|it}.txt

I welcome your constructive criticisms and corrections.

Re: Java SDK 1.4

[Bill Wohler]

Tom Cook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>   I
> *think*, but am not sure, that stuff needs to be recompiled - or was it
> that you can't run javac from 1.3 in a 1.4 VM?  

  Yes, the binary format has changed but you've got it backwards. Stuff
  compiled under 1.4 won't run under a 1.3 VM unless you use the new 1.4
  compatibility switch to javac (I personally haven't loaded 1.4, so
  you'll have to run javac -help to find out what the switch is).

  Stuff compiled under 1.3 should run just fine under a 1.4 VM.

  Waiting for the mighty Stefan to put out a .deb!

--
Bill Wohler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  http://www.newt.com/wohler/  GnuPG ID:610BD9AD
Maintainer of comp.mail.mh FAQ and mh-e. Vote Libertarian!
If you're passed on the right, you're in the wrong lane.

Re: apt-get build-deps or -b switch

[Manoj Srivastava]

>>"Harry" == Harry Putnam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

 Harry> I've written hundreds, probably thousands of lines of reports
 Harry> complaints etc.  Received piles of helpful replies.  And still no
 Harry> stable sytem in working order. 

I'm sorry to hear that. You certainly have given it a good,
 solid try, and I wish the install had worked for you.  If ever I am
 in the same area of the country, I'll come spend an afternoon and set
 up a machine for you (if, that is, I ever get over the prospect of
 pushing up daisies ;-)

manoj
-- 
 The man she had was kind and clean And well enough for every day, But
 oh, dear friends, you should have seen The one that got away. Dorothy
 Parker, "The Fisherwoman"
Manoj Srivastava   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05  CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C

Re: TV over LAN?

[Paul 'Baloo' Johnson]

On 8 Mar 2002, Thomas Hessling wrote:

> X forwarding should do it. You might have to add the workstation to your
> laptop's xhost list (xhost +hostname_of_workstation) - depends on your X
> server configuration. Afterwards just ssh to your workstation and run
> the TV program.

I'm thinking audio would be missing or playing out the wrong computer...

-- 
Baloo

Re: The future of Debian install??

[Bruce Burhans]

- Original Message -
From: "Oki DZ" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Francisco M. Marzoa Alonso" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "Michael Marziani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: The future of Debian install??


> Francisco M. Marzoa Alonso wrote:
> > Well, I don't know how RH goes now, but the first RH distribution I
test
> > about seven years ago (4.x or so...) has an installation like the
one Debian
> > has today.

[snip]

Looks to me like this fellow is a natural Windoze
user.  Thats where the spectators belong.  Debian  is
for the players...
I started in January with 2 months of computer
experience behind me.  I've been studying   every day
since then,  and still do not feel ready to actually install
Debian.
Am I complaining? Not on your life.  If I wanted
to be an appliance operator, I'd just stay with Windoze,
and never learn anything but how to call 800 numbers
and how to insert CDs for the re-install  they use for
every single problem.  (System Restore, and Last Good
Configuration are just variations on this theme. )
Windoze is a disposable operating system, and
that's all even their so-called 'engineers'  know how to
do.
Now. Back to "Running Linux"  which is the last
step (for me) before actual  installation. .
And am I going to be disappointed if it goes too
smoothly.


Bruce<+>

Re: CD-Writing Program

[Sebastiaan]

High,

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Jeff J. wrote:

> Im trying to move the family from WinXP to Debian so my computer wont be
> rebooted into windows every time I come home..  If I could find a generally
> 'compatible' browser that works with everything (mostly?) and a good
> comprehensive/easy to use cd-writing program, it would be nice.. Anyone who
> has conned the family into using Linux have any insight?  All my wife does
> is burn mp3's as audio CD's to play in the car..
>
I use cdrecord in combination with mkisofs. Just write down the command
line once, and it is very simple.

For mp3's you can use mp3burn. Works pretty simple too.

If you are looking for an X based program, have a look at xcdroast. I do
not use it myself, but they say it is a grafical overlay for cdrecord e.a.

Greetz,
Sebastiaan

Re: networking problems withe Linksys router

[Chris Jenks]

At 02:38 PM 3/7/02, you wrote:


Sorry, I forgot that bit.  No, there was no need.  I had the rest of the
network at home set up before the cable installer guy got here, so the
Linksys MAC address is the only address they have from me.

At first I thought it was a problem with the DHCP server, because I
wasn't getting an IP address on the Linux side, and I knew the setup was
right, because it works with the wireless network here at work.
However, I tried setting a fixed IP address and that didn't work,
either, so I was pretty sure that it was a firmware issue with the
router.

Supposing it's not the router's firmware, do you have a DHCP client set
up for Linux, or are / were you using static IP addresses?  Is the
default gateway set correctly?  I suppose the output of 'ifconfig -a'
would be useful, too.


I'm using the router for a DHCP server, and I know it's working right
because the laptop (running a Progeny/woody/potato hybrid) has no
problems pulling it's address. When I took the router out of the network
for testing, I had to use static on both computers. Currently I have the
desktop set up for static routing, but when I was using DHCP it was
failing as well.

Re: networking problems withe Linksys router

[Chris Jenks]

At 03:36 AM 3/8/02, Chris Jenks wrote:

At 02:38 PM 3/7/02, you wrote:


Sorry, I forgot that bit.  No, there was no need.  I had the rest of the
network at home set up before the cable installer guy got here, so the
Linksys MAC address is the only address they have from me.

At first I thought it was a problem with the DHCP server, because I
wasn't getting an IP address on the Linux side, and I knew the setup was
right, because it works with the wireless network here at work.
However, I tried setting a fixed IP address and that didn't work,
either, so I was pretty sure that it was a firmware issue with the
router.

Supposing it's not the router's firmware, do you have a DHCP client set
up for Linux, or are / were you using static IP addresses?  Is the
default gateway set correctly?  I suppose the output of 'ifconfig -a'
would be useful, too.


I'm using the router for a DHCP server, and I know it's working right
because the laptop (running a Progeny/woody/potato hybrid) has no
problems pulling it's address. When I took the router out of the network
for testing, I had to use static on both computers. Currently I have the
desktop set up for static routing, but when I was using DHCP it was
failing as well.

'
forgot to include this:


eth0  Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:A0:CC:35:7B:3E
  inet addr:192.168.15.105  Bcast:192.168.15.255  Mask:255.255.255.0
  UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
  RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
  TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
  collisions:0 txqueuelen:100
  Interrupt:10 Base address:0xec00
loLink encap:Local Loopback
  inet addr:127.0.0.1  Mask:255.0.0.0
  UP LOOPBACK RUNNING  MTU:3924  Metric:1
  RX packets:14 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
  TX packets:14 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
  collisions:0 txqueuelen:0

Watch this - Microsoft Security Update

[Paolo Sacco]

Microsoft Customer,

 this is the latest version of security update, the 

Re: From apt-move to apt-proxy

[Matijs van Zuijlen]

On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 04:41:15PM +0100, Chris Halls wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 03:45:41PM +0100, Matijs van Zuijlen wrote:
> > On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 12:51:17PM +0100, Chris Halls wrote:
> > > http://apt-proxy.sourceforge.net/apt-proxy/unstable
> 
> > I would like to try it, but I (well, my nameserver) can't seem to
> > resolve apt-proxy.sourceforge.net at the moment. 
> 
> It's just part of sourceforge.  Can you see the apt-proxy project on
> sourceforge?  If you can, follow the link to the homepage from there.

Yes, I saw the project page, followed the homepage link, and my browser
couldn't find it. DNS lookup didn't work either. I'll check it again now
... yes, it's working again. Oh well ...

> 
> > Is it too big to post here?
> 
> Well, no, not the script itself so I'll attach it.  I was hoping I might
> trick you into installing the newer version so I had another tester :-))

Hm, now that I can actually get to that homepage, I may even consider
it. Ah, I see it's aptable. Great. You have another tester.

-- 
Note that I use Debian version 3.0
Linux mus 2.4.17mvz2 #1 Wed Feb 27 17:41:43 CET 2002 i686 unknown

Matijs

Re: Still looking to replace Eudora

[O Polite]

On Fri, 2002-03-08 at 04:01, Eric G. Miller wrote:
> The window(s) within a containing window paradigm is generally not found
> in X programs.  I don't think it's even part of most (any?) toolkits.
> 
When I first moved to linux I tried out StarOffice, which put all it's
windows in one "desktop" window. That was one of the reasons I didn't
stick with StarOffice. The main reason however was that is was extremely
sluggish and unstable. This was a long time ago so maybe that has all
changed.

Pardon my English, speling is broken in Evolution.

NFS problem

[Axel Boyrie]

Hi,

I am using Woody. I mount NFS directory from Solaris 2.8 where files are owed 
by nobody.nobody

once NFS mounted on Woody, with the kernel 2.2.20 files appear as own by 
nobody.nogroup

But with kernel 2.4.17 files appear with a uid and gid number 4294967294 !!???

i've try to change the NFS protocole version with nfsvers=2 in fstab but it 
does nothing

Is kernel 2.4 needs special configuration for NFS ?



Axel

Re: TV over LAN?

[Thomas Hessling]

> > X forwarding should do it. You might have to add the workstation to your
> > laptop's xhost list (xhost +hostname_of_workstation) - depends on your X
> > server configuration. Afterwards just ssh to your workstation and run
> > the TV program.
> 
> What about sound?

You're right, that's a problem. I haven't used audio software with X
forwarding so far but it will probably be played on the wrong computer,
as Paul already said. 


Thomas

Re: Open Office in unstable?

[Chris Halls]

On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 02:27:41PM -0800, Mike Fedyk wrote:
> I've found some packages for debian unstable at www.linux-office.net has
> anyone else tried them?

Yes and they worked for me on one out of two machines: The X server on my
Thinkpad T20 (Savage IX chip) crashes frequently when I run OO on it.  That
package is from Openoffice build 638.

The current build it 641c and Jan-Hendrik Palic and others on the
debian-openoffice list are trying to get it built.  See
http://www.linux-debian.de/openoffice/ for the latest news.

Chris
-- 
Chris Halls | Frankfurt, Germany


pgpN6w9NkCCTu.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: TV over LAN?

[Richard Hector]

Thomas Hessling wrote:
> 
> > > X forwarding should do it.
> >
> > What about sound?
> 
> You're right, that's a problem. I haven't used audio software with X
> forwarding so far but it will probably be played on the wrong computer,
> as Paul already said.

I believe that's what NCD invented the Network Audio System (NAS) for,
to use with their X terminals. I think it works the same way round; ie
it has a server on the same machine as the X server. I can't find
whether ssh will forward it in the same way as X.

Note that I've never used it.

Richard

-- 
I'm currently looking for work; see my Curriculum Vitae here:
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~rhector/cv.html

Re: TV over LAN?

[Paul 'Baloo' Johnson]

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Richard Hector wrote:

> Note that I've never used it.

I'm not entirely sure anybody did.  I don't think it's offered on
current NCDs...

-- 
Baloo

Re: apt-get build-deps or -b switch

[Colin Watson]

On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 06:42:08PM -0600, Nathan E Norman wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 01:15:39PM -0800, Harry Putnam wrote:
> > Its a little confusing since apt-get is supposed to be getting all
> > dependancy stuff.  It looks like it is too, but then it fails.
> 
> apt-get satisifies binary dependencies, not build dependencies!  YOU
> have to ensure that the build dependencies are satisfied prior to
> building the package.  Fortunately, since the build dependencies are
> declared, this isn't too tough.
> 
> There may be a tool which satisifies the build-dependencies for you; I
> don't know of one though.

'apt-get build-dep ', as Harry said at the top of this
thread.

-- 
Colin Watson  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: CD-Writing Program

[Karsten Heymann]

* Jeff J. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [020308 10:56]:
> Im trying to move the family from WinXP to Debian so my computer wont
> be rebooted into windows every time I come home..  If I could find a
> generally 'compatible' browser that works with everything (mostly?)

Galeon seems very promising. Should be in woody.

> and a good comprehensive/easy to use cd-writing program, it would be
> nice.. Anyone who has conned the family into using Linux have any
> insight?  All my wife does is burn mp3's as audio CD's to play in the
> car..

$ grep-available -F Depends -s Package cdrecord
gives on actual sid:

Package: cdbackup
Package: bootcd
Package: gcombust
Package: kreatecd
Package: gtoaster
Package: multicd
Package: eroaster
Package: mp3burn
Package: xcdroast
Package: cdcontrol

Those are the packages depending on cdrecord. (grep-available is in the
grep-dctrl package). For simple use kreatecd is quite nice. For burning
mp3's use mp3burn (as said in another post). gcombust, gtoaster and
xcdroast are more general burning utilities. The rest are mainly backup
utilities I think. Maybe not all of them are in woody and propably only 
few are in potato.

Also there is webcdwriter or so - not packaged because java-based,
search on freshmeat. It is a server and a browser-based client. If they 
know how to browse, they propably like this too.

As usual on linux, you've got the choice.

Greets,

Karsten
-- 
Karsten Heymann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
CAU-University Kiel, Germany
Registered Linux User #221014  (http://counter.li.org)

Re: The future of Debian install??

[Francisco M. Marzoa Alonso]

On Friday 08 March 2002 06:55, Oki DZ wrote:
> Francisco M. Marzoa Alonso wrote:
>
> The install part on RH is better than what's in Debian, even today;
> especially when it goes to X. I never said that fresh install in Debian
> was easier. On Debian, it is a _lot_ easier when installing individual
> package; in my case, using apt-get.

Yes, apt-get is a great tool, but we wasn't talking about it.

> > Keep on mind that everyone can configure this distribution; its not a
> > matter of brain, its a matter of TIME, and there's a lot of people that
> > needs a computer to do things very different that spent time configuring
> > the SO, specially if they're not computer technicians; they do NOT NEED
> > to know
>
> Well, I believe that given the same task, if somebody can do it faster,
> then there's something in the brain.

An elitist... well, if you can configure X from scratch faster than the 
computer itself, then you should think about go to the Guinness show. 
Computers are done to make our lifes easy and to let us avoid repetitive 
tasks. I'm not psychologist, but I think making repetitive things faster is 
not a manner of evaluate inteligence (or is it?). A monkey can do that kind 
of things faster than an human if it is trained.

> > nothing about the underlaying technology as, in example, a JAVA
> > programmer DO NOT NEED to know nothing about x86 assembler or an x86
> > assembler programmer DO NOT NEED to know the machine codes of each
> > mnemonic.
>
> I believe that on installing a fresh Debian system, X is the barrier
> that you have to overcome; if in fact you needed to run X.
>
> BTW, in the homepage, it is stated that the friendly UI is the shell;
> even for beginners.
> In http://packages.debian.org/unstable:
> Shells
> Command shells. Friendly user interfaces for beginners.

There was an old expresion that looks like "Unix is user friendly, but it 
choose its friends carefully".

> So, regarding X on Debian, X is extra; something that you have to deal
> with to pass the beginner stage. 

This is not reasonable indeed. Imagine that a graphic designer needs to use 
its system to develop images; yes, it can write a jpeg byte by byte with the 
help of 'dd bs=1 if=/dev/stdin >> mygraph.jpg' (vi is for awful users, echo 
sucks! gimp? what's gimp?) a calculator (moreover, without it) a lot of 
paper and more patiente. Despite the fact that fractals are for 
mathematician, not for graphic desingers, then it could think "well... why 
I'm using a computer?".

You don't need to know how a turbo works or a direct inyection diesel engine 
does to be an excellent driver.

Is the computer that must cover the requeriments of the user, and not the 
other way.

> It's a bit different with other Linux
> systems; on others, you'd get into X (pretty automatically) and then go
> to the command shells when they are ready. On Debian, you go to the
> shell first; at least to learn what "ls" is. Later, when you need
> something fancy (like others), you have to install X (pretty manually,
> espescially on XF86Config).
>
> I believe that the Debian approach is better, in terms of learning;

[...]

> Thing is, I believe that people wouldn't go manual if they could do it
> automatically. 

[...]

Integrist? Well, If you want to learn how X works, then learn how X works, if 
you want to practise some kind of religion, then do it, but let the rest of 
people decide by themselves what they need/want to learn. 

> > Finally, I'll like to know everything about every field, but none lives
> > forever.
>
> None lives forever... but to know everything, actually all you need to
> do is to go in silence; in all there is silence, and in silence there is
> all.

Erm... did you see Kung-Fu reciently? know everything in a life is, of course 
impossible, but still to know "a lot" everyone needs time, in all there is 
time, and time is short as hell. (Gamma Ray)

> > If Debian has have a better (call it "easier" or "faster" or so...)
> > setup system, I've had migrate to it from years ago.
>
> You flamed on things that I didn't say. All I say was: Debian is better
> compared to RH on installing packages. 

We must stand for different threads. At the beggining of my one you was 
insinuating that Debian was better "cause a Red Hat user don't knows nothing 
about X".

And yes, apt-get rules... so?...

BTW, don't know in RH, but at least in SuSE rpm says the package dependeces 
you need to complet, not the individual files. This is not as cool as apt-get 
but not as bad as you paint it neither.

Have a good one,

Re: TV over LAN?

[Richard Hector]

Paul 'Baloo' Johnson wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Richard Hector wrote:
> 
> > Note that I've never used it.
> 
> I'm not entirely sure anybody did.  I don't think it's offered on
> current NCDs...

Well it's available in both potato and woody (client, server, libraries,
docs), so it must have achieved some level of popularity.

Richard

-- 
I'm currently looking for work; see my Curriculum Vitae here:
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~rhector/cv.html

just a few questions!

[Greg Murphy]

Hello,

I've got just a few questions that maybe someone can help me out with. Thanks 
for any help. 

1. What's the command line option to record mp3's (on my hard drive) to cds 
(that can be played in cd players) using mkisofs, cdrecord, mpg123, etc? I 
have tried a couple frontends, but none of those seem to work.
2. What are some good utilities that can convert .vob files to some other 
smaller format. I've tried mencoder and drip, but neither of those will do 
the job.
3. I'm running testing, and recently upgraded xfree via apt-get. I don't 
remember how long ago this was, but I think the new version might not be a 
stable as the old ( both were 4.?.? ). After roughly 5-7 days of running (w/o 
reboot) x / kde will just lock up. I can ssh in fine and do things from 
there, but no response from either the local keyboard or monitor ( sometimes 
the mouse works, sometimes it doesn't ). killing x over ssh does not fix the 
problem. I have an lcd screen. Has anyone else encountered a similar problem? 
How did you fix it? Ideas? 


Sincerely,
Greg

Re: TV over LAN?

[Paul 'Baloo' Johnson]

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Richard Hector wrote:

> Well it's available in both potato and woody (client, server, libraries,
> docs), so it must have achieved some level of popularity.

Oh, well, I stand corrected.

-- 
Baloo

gs-pdfencrypt & gs-aladdin confusion

[Martin Hermanowski]

This is strange:
I' m using gs-aladdin, and I would like to view encrypted pdfs.
gs-aladdin suggests gs-pdfencrypt, but installing gs-pdfencrypt would
install gs and gs-common and remove gs-aladdin.

So how can I view encrypted pdfs with gs-aladdin?

MfG
Martin

-- 
PGP/GPG encrypted mail preferred, see header
,-- 
| Nur tote Fische schwimmen mit dem Strom
`--

Re: just a few questions!

[Sebastiaan]

High,

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Greg Murphy wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I've got just a few questions that maybe someone can help me out with. Thanks
> for any help.
>
> 1. What's the command line option to record mp3's (on my hard drive) to cds
> (that can be played in cd players) using mkisofs, cdrecord, mpg123, etc? I
> have tried a couple frontends, but none of those seem to work.

you have to have the packages cdrecord and mp3burn installed. A 'man
mp3burn' tells you everything you need.

mp3burn -c 070:00 -o "-v speed=2 dev=0,1,0" /home/me/mymp3/*

(or something similar).

Greetz,
Sebastiaan

Re: Still looking to replace Eudora

[Brian Stults]

On Fri, 2002-03-08 at 04:59, O Polite wrote:
> 
> Pardon my English, speling is broken in Evolution.
> 

Search the web for the unofficial debian package for gnome-spell. 
Install it and spell-checking in evolution will work.


-- 
Brian J. Stults
Department of Sociology
University of Florida
P.O. Box 117330
Gainesville, Florida 32611-7330
phone:  (352) 392-0265 x286
fax:(352) 392-6568 
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

User name in email address

[Glyn Millington]

Can you help me understand something about my mail system?   Gnus,
Xemacs, Exim, fetchmail. 

When I, eg, send a message to this list, my email address comes out as 

Glyn Millington  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


Now the "Glyn Millington"   part of that is not set in my .gnus file or
init.el , nor can I find it in exim.conf  So Gnus is pulling this down
from somewhere and I must have set it a couple of years ago when I first
set up Debian here.  But where?  



Glyn

-- 

*Note that I use Debian version testing/unstable   *
* Linux glynthebearded 2.4.17 #1 Mon Jan 14 23:14:00 GMT 2002 i686 unknown *


  

Greek keyboard on Woody

[George Karaolides]

Hi,

Any pointers/suggestions on how to set up a Greek keyboard on woody?

Best regards,

|   George Karaolides  Linustech Advanced Solutions,  |
|   tel:   +357 22 55 61 29  86 Ifigenias Street, 3rd Floor,  |
|   web:   www.linustech.com.cy  Strovolos, Nicosia CY 2003,  |
|   email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Republic  of Cyprus.  |

Re: User name in email address

[Chris Jenks]

At 06:59 AM 3/8/02, Glyn  Millington wrote:



Can you help me understand something about my mail system?   Gnus,
Xemacs, Exim, fetchmail.

When I, eg, send a message to this list, my email address comes out as

Glyn Millington  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


Now the "Glyn Millington"   part of that is not set in my .gnus file or
init.el , nor can I find it in exim.conf  So Gnus is pulling this down
from somewhere and I must have set it a couple of years ago when I first
set up Debian here.  But where?



Glyn


is it listed in /etc/passwd?

Re: Greek keyboard on Woody

[Pietro Cagnoni]

George Karaolides wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Any pointers/suggestions on how to set up a Greek keyboard on woody?
> 
> Best regards,
> 

there's an hellenic-howto on www.linuxdoc.org.

pietro.

Re: User name in email address

[Paul 'Baloo' Johnson]

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Glyn  Millington wrote:

> Now the "Glyn Millington"   part of that is not set in my .gnus file or
> init.el , nor can I find it in exim.conf  So Gnus is pulling this down
> from somewhere and I must have set it a couple of years ago when I first
> set up Debian here.  But where?

/etc/passwd.  I don't see why this is a problem, since you can change it
in most mail readers.


-- 
Baloo

Re: OT: kernel 2.4 and USB 2.0

[Daniel Faller]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Thursday 07 March 2002 18:52, Ron Johnson wrote:
> Thanks.  There are 2 patches listed.  Is the hcd-0120.patch a
> cumulative patch, or must I apply both usb2-ehci-0114.patch and
> then hcd-0120.patch?
I didn't try it myshelf but I would expect you have to apply both patches. 

 
Daniel


_
Daniel Faller
Fakultaet fuer Physik
Abt. Honerkamp
Albert-Ludwigs-Universitaet Freiburg

Tel.: 0761-203-5875
Fax.: 0761-203-5967 
e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
URL: http://webber.physik.uni-freiburg.de/~fallerd 
PGP-Key: http://pgp.mit.edu/
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE8iLA4tW1j248en+YRAgSKAJ9Mb2xn7JOeWtYX6cIEu2781o88PQCeMc68
rE+j3bY31WaWhSEsaiWWtpU=
=kpjA
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: Greek keyboard on Woody

[George Karaolides]

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Pietro Cagnoni wrote:

> George Karaolides wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Any pointers/suggestions on how to set up a Greek keyboard on woody?
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
>
> there's an hellenic-howto on www.linuxdoc.org.
>
> pietro.
>

Hi Pietro,

Thanks for the pointer, but I was aware of the Hellenic HOWTO.

It is, however, desperately out of date: August 1997.

Also, the solutions suggested therein are mostly non-standard.  For
example, there are dedicated software packages for the Greek keyboard, but
I am aware that X comes with its own standard mechanism for installing
alternative keyboard maps.

I am sure that the Debian community, with its predilection for standards
adjerence and up-to-date-ness, has built much better Greek support into
woody's internationalisation than the non-standard, out-of-date hacks
suggested in the Hellenic HOWTO.  The stuff must be in the distribution
somewhere; I just can't find where.

Best regards,

|   George Karaolides  Linustech Advanced Solutions,  |
|   tel:   +357 22 55 61 29  86 Ifigenias Street, 3rd Floor,  |
|   web:   www.linustech.com.cy  Strovolos, Nicosia CY 2003,  |
|   email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Republic  of Cyprus.  |

Re: courier-imap setup

[Shri Shrikumar]

>I'm having some trouble getting courier-imap to work on my unstable
>box. (courier-imap-ssl is currently not installable due to
>dependency-problem, I filed a bug already).
>
>So, I installed it, and tried to connect with gnus and
>netscape-messenger. To no avail. My user/pw combination is not
>recognized.
>
>I investigated further (starting imapd in a shell) and had to realize
>that imapd requires the file /etc/courier/imapd-ssl, which isn't
>there. Even if I touch that file, imapd does only exit right away,
>instead of expecting imapd talk on stdin/out.
>
>> Any ideas, hints, tips?

I remember trying to set IMAP up but dont remember anything about requiring
ssl or such. I did however have to create a Maildir folder in the users home
directory.

HTH, HAND,


Shri

Re: User name in email address

[Glyn Millington]

Paul 'Baloo' Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

>
> /etc/passwd.  I don't see why this is a problem, since you can change it
> in most mail readers.

No problem, just that

a. I couldn't for the life of me remember where it is set.

b. I don't like it when the system does things I can't track down
   somehow. 

Many thanks


Glyn

-- 

*Note that I use Debian version testing/unstable   *
* Linux glynthebearded 2.4.17 #1 Mon Jan 14 23:14:00 GMT 2002 i686 unknown *


  

Re: Greek keyboard on Woody

[Pietro Cagnoni]

George Karaolides wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Pietro Cagnoni wrote:
> 
> > George Karaolides wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Any pointers/suggestions on how to set up a Greek keyboard on woody?
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> >
> > there's an hellenic-howto on www.linuxdoc.org.
> >
> > pietro.
> >
> 
> Hi Pietro,
> 
> Thanks for the pointer, but I was aware of the Hellenic HOWTO.
> 
> It is, however, desperately out of date: August 1997.

but it points to http://howto.hellug.gr/, with some stuff dated 5 feb
2002, and some more docs.

> I am sure that the Debian community, with its predilection for standards
> adjerence and up-to-date-ness, has built much better Greek support into
> woody's internationalisation than the non-standard, out-of-date hacks
> suggested in the Hellenic HOWTO.  The stuff must be in the distribution
> somewhere; I just can't find where.

apt-cache search greek on potato finds some xfont stuff, maybe it can
find more in woody.

hth

pietro.




> Best regards,
> 
> |   George Karaolides  Linustech Advanced Solutions,  |
> |   tel:   +357 22 55 61 29  86 Ifigenias Street, 3rd Floor,  |
> |   web:   www.linustech.com.cy  Strovolos, Nicosia CY 2003,  |
> |   email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Republic  of Cyprus.  |
> 
> --
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Still looking to replace Eudora

[Michel Loos]

On Fri, 2002-03-08 at 03:23, Bill Moseley wrote:
> On Thursday 07 March 2002 07:01 pm, Eric G. Miller wrote:
> > On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 05:11:12PM -0800, Bill Moseley wrote:
> 
> > > Maybe it's a config setting I've missed, but what I miss is having the
> > > messages open in their own windows (yet still inside the main Eudora
> > > window).  The reason is I like to work with my mail as a single unit
> > > (single window), but I like to keep a bunch of messages open at the
> > > same time that I'm working on.
> >
> > The window(s) within a containing window paradigm is generally not found
> > in X programs.  I don't think it's even part of most (any?) toolkits.
> 
> That's what I wondered.  
> 
> I'll try the trick of using a separate desktop for my mail.  So far, with 
> multiple windows, it gets cluttered too fast.  The windows-inside-a-window 
> thing was nice in Eudora -- let me have a real messy email window that could 
> all be moved as a single unit.
> 

Just wondering: what do you prefer when displaying window in window over
the "preview" in the lower part of the evolution window ?

Michel.

> I'll get used to it.
> 
> Thanks for everyone's time.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Bill Moseley
> 
> 
> -- 
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 

Re: Still looking to replace Eudora

[Jorge Escalante]

Have you tried "balsa"? It's the one I use and it's not bad.


On Thu, 07 Mar 2002 20:11:12 Bill Moseley wrote:
> I just didn't realize how set in my ways I am.
> 
> I've tried for X: Kmail, Evolution, Sylpheed, and Mahogany.  Something else 
I 
> can't remember.  They all seem fine.
> 
> Maybe it's a config setting I've missed, but what I miss is having the 
> messages open in their own windows (yet still inside the main Eudora 
window). 
> The reason is I like to work with my mail as a single unit (single window), 
> but I like to keep a bunch of messages open at the same time that I'm 
working 
> on.
> 
> Do any mail clients work that way?
> 
> I do realize that I can open a new mail client with Kmail.
> 
> I'm sure I can learn new ways, but that's been what I've missed the most in 
> my change to linux on the desktop.  I suppose I could dedicate a separate 
> desktop to mail.
> 
> Evolution keeps crashing on Sid, for me.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> --
> Bill Moseley
> 
> 
> -- 
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

My Computer's Opinion
~~
if( desire == play_games() ){return getNintendo64();}
if( (desire == computing() ) (user != smart) ) {return getMicrosoft();}
if( ( desire == computing() )(user == smart) ){return getLinux();}

Problems replacing gs-aladdin with gs

[Sebastian Canagaratna]

Hi:

  I am running Woody. I tried to replace gs-aladdin with gs
  and apt-get seems to have a problem with it. It comes up
  with

  error process ... gs-common_0.3.2_all.deb (--unpack)
  trying to overwrite `/usr/bin/bdftops', which is
  also in package ghostscript.

  All attempts with apt-get -f install or apt-get install
  --fix-missing don't get me anywhere. Neither does dpkg
  get me anywhere.

  Looking at /var/lib/dpkg/status gives me:

  gs-aladdin purge OK not installed
  gs install OK unpacked
  gs-common install OK not installed

  Fortunately all my programs are working OK, which puzzles me,
  because they require gs, and the gs of gs-aladdin should have been
  removed. 

  Is there a safe way of proceeding?
  Thanks for any suggestions.

  Sebastian.
-- 

Sebastian Canagaratna
Department of Chemistry
Ohio Northern University
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Using deb packages to release software

[Daniel Ruoso]

Hi,

I work in a software house and we always publish our software using deb
packages. We have a little server configured with a Packages.gz,
enabling the packages to appear in dselect.
All my packages are in a CVS server, and I use cvs-buildpackage to
create the debs from the cvs source.
Until here it's all ok.

But now comes the problem...

I want to publish the software in different stages (unstable, testing,
frozen and stable, just like debian itself), because I will have
machines testing each distribution.

Finally, the question is...
What's the better strategy to publish packages in the four dists?

Re: CD-Writing Program

[John Shepherd]

Jeff,

 I'm very new to Linux, too, but my
understanding is that cdrecord and cdrdao are the
typical cd-burning softwares.  There is a
cd-writing HOWTO that seems pretty good, too.  

http://www.linuxdocs.org/HOWTOs/CD-Writing-HOWTO.html

Best,
John
--- "Jeff J." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Im trying to move the family from WinXP to
> Debian so my computer wont be
> rebooted into windows every time I come home.. 
> If I could find a generally
> 'compatible' browser that works with everything
> (mostly?) and a good
> comprehensive/easy to use cd-writing program,
> it would be nice.. Anyone who
> has conned the family into using Linux have any
> insight?  All my wife does
> is burn mp3's as audio CD's to play in the
> car..
> 
> Jeff J.
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> This message is certified virus free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system
> (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.332 / Virus Database: 186 -
> Release Date: 3/6/2002
> 
> 
> -- 
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble?
> Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 


__
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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Debian install for beginners?

[Karl E. Jorgensen]

Hi

Has anybody else had experience with setting up a Debian GNU/Linux box
for friends who wants to get started with computers? If so then I'd
appreciate your comments/input.

I plan to use:
- Debian GNU/Linux (off course!)
install minimal potato, set up apt to point to woody (with
preferences for security updates from potato). I've most most
packages in my apt-proxy cache anyway.
- hand-rolled 2.4.17 kernel 
Basically a kernel-package job, probably with tmpfs for /tmp and
/var/run
- XFree 4.1.0
- xdm (anything small will do)
- Icewm - not gnome. (it seems lightweight) Alternatives welcome.
- Mail client - sylpheed? (there was a discussion on debian-user about
  this recently. I need to read up on that)
- Gnumeric
- Abiword: I think staroffice will be too much for the machine. Any
  alternatives?
- Browser? Will mozilla be too heavyweight? I like mozilla myself...
- Any progs/applets available for controlling pppd?
- Some games
That's probably what they will mostly use the machine for.
ace-of-penguins looks nice.
gotta have tetris too.
Ideas?
- Gimp
- FreeAmp
- mgetty so I can dial in if needed. Should also be usable for fax.

I'd like to install gtcd as well (part of the gnome-media package), so
they can turn CDs into MP3s, but that will pull in most of the gnome 
libraries. I fear that the memory usage may cause the machine to collapse.

Somebody else must have done this before - any ideas/concerns will be
appreciated.

 Background (please snip upon responding): 

A couple of friend of mine wants to have a computer. But they can't
afford a new one. As it happens, I have enough spare bits (junk?) around 
to build a small box. I keep emphasising to them that it will be a
*very* low-spec PC. But at least it will get them started.

I have to keep in mind that they have almost no experience with
computers whatsoever. And I don't want to drag debian's name into the
mud, so I have to get this right :-) They shouldn't need to use xterm -
at least not for the first month or two...

I plan to do the full install and "hand over" the box when it's ready to
use, with everything installed and working.

Hardware:
- Motherboard. Carbon-16 didn't work, so it must be old.
- 133 MHz Pentium (probably MMX)
- 64 Mb memory - no free memory slots :-( 
- 3 Gb IDE disk - should be enough
- ATAPI CD-Rom drive
- 3.5" floopy (two of them actually!)
- 3com Etherlink III ISA (they won't need it, but handy while setting
  the box up)
- Modem (not sure what type, but not a winmodem. Easy)
- Creative SB 16 Pnp
- S3Virge PCI(325) video card

The box is a salvage-job. My budget for all of this is non-existent. I 
even managed to salvage an old monitor and keyboard (without the Windows
key!). Unfortunately I will have to go over budget when it comes to 
getting a mouse though... 

-- 
Karl E. Jørgensen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.karl.jorgensen.com
 Today's fortune:
Linux, the way to get rid of boot viruses
-- MaDsen Wikholm, [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Description: PGP signature

Re: Still looking to replace Eudora

[O Polite]

On Fri, 2002-03-08 at 12:48, Brian Stults wrote:
> Search the web for the unofficial debian package for gnome-spell. 
> Install it and spell-checking in evolution will work.
> 

http://www.luyer.net/EvoBuilds/spell-checking/gnome-spell_0.3-0_i386.deb

Thes unofisial package installles nisely. And is allso a reel eggo
boster, kause it didnt finnd a cingle speling eror in this dockument! 

Am I missing something? Some hidden setting somewhere?

o polite

Re: apt-get build-deps or -b switch

[Harry Putnam]

Sean writesL

[...]
> The point of this is not "Debian is your saviour, repent".  My point is
> sometimes you come in at the wrong time.  Out time, your time, it doesn't
> matter.  Just don't give up.

Quite a story Sean..

Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

>>>"Harry" == Harry Putnam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>  Harry> I've written hundreds, probably thousands of lines of reports
>  Harry> complaints etc.  Received piles of helpful replies.  And still no
>  Harry> stable sytem in working order. 
>
>   I'm sorry to hear that. You certainly have given it a good,
>  solid try, and I wish the install had worked for you.  If ever I am
>  in the same area of the country, I'll come spend an afternoon and set
>  up a machine for you (if, that is, I ever get over the prospect of
>  pushing up daisies ;-)

My final installation (#8) is a bare bones, noX, command line commando
machine. I'll get it setup to handle my household mail next week.  So
haven't completely abandonded ship.  Just giving up on the extra
tinkering for a while to take care of my school work.

Oh, I heard from an old friend in Chicago that my private graveyard
has been paved over and turned into a `Day Care Center'.. :-)

Re: Greek keyboard on Woody

[George Karaolides]

Hi,


I found some stuff under www.linux.gr about setting up the Greek keyboard
under X.

IN the end, setting up the Greek keyboard on Woody (X 4.1.0) was as simple
as making these changes to the InputDevice section:

---

Section "InputDevice"
Identifier  "Generic Keyboard"
Driver  "keyboard"
Option  "CoreKeyboard"
Option  "XkbRules"  "xfree86"
Option  "XkbModel"  "pc105"
Option  "XkbLayout" "el"
Option  "XkbOptions""grp:shift_toggle"
EndSection

--

So now I have a Greek keyboard that switches between Latin and Greek
characters when I hit both Shift keys.

But this isn't the end of the story.

There are (at least) two different widely used Greek keyboard layouts:
One based on the US keyboard layout and one based on the UK keyboard
layout.

The settings above give me the Greek keyboard based on the US layout.
But being in Cyprus, where our local currency is the Cyprus Pound, the
most useful keyboards here are the Greek keyboards based on the UK
keyboard layout (Shift-3 gives the pound sign instead of #).

Windoze supports both tyoes of keyboard.  What about X?

Best regards,

|   George Karaolides  Linustech Advanced Solutions,  |
|   tel:   +357 22 55 61 29  86 Ifigenias Street, 3rd Floor,  |
|   web:   www.linustech.com.cy  Strovolos, Nicosia CY 2003,  |
|   email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Republic  of Cyprus.  |

Re: NEWBIE TIP #110 [was Re: suggestion[data in .sig file]]

[Dimitri Maziuk]

* Osamu Aoki ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) spake thusly:
...
> Anyway, it was interesting.  this was not "my document" but quite
> thought provoking for me

Good. Then my ranting was not entirely in vain.

Dima
-- 
We're sysadmins. Sanity happens to other people.  -- Chris King

Re: NFS problem

[Dimitri Maziuk]

* Axel Boyrie ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) spake thusly:
> Hi,
> 
> I am using Woody. I mount NFS directory from Solaris 2.8 where files are owed 
> by nobody.nobody
> 
> once NFS mounted on Woody, with the kernel 2.2.20 files appear as own by 
> nobody.nogroup
> 
> But with kernel 2.4.17 files appear with a uid and gid number 4294967294 !!???
> 
> i've try to change the NFS protocole version with nfsvers=2 in fstab but it 
> does nothing
> 
> Is kernel 2.4 needs special configuration for NFS ?

Nope. No problems NFS-mounting stuff off Solaris 8 here. Check your kernel
compile options. Mine is compiled with CONFIG_NFS_FS=y, CONFIG_NFS_V3=y
(it's a home-made kernel, not .deb).

Dima
-- 
We're sysadmins. Sanity happens to other people.  -- Chris King

Re: Debian install for beginners?

[Sridhar M.A.]

On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 02:57:58PM +, Karl E. Jorgensen wrote:
   > 
   > - Icewm - not gnome. (it seems lightweight) Alternatives welcome.

Try fluxbox. It is fast and light. I particularly like its tabbed
window arrangement.

For a file manager, use rox. If your friend is comfortable with a text
interface, emelfm should be very good.
   
   > - Mail client - sylpheed? (there was a discussion on debian-user about
   >   this recently. I need to read up on that)

Why not mutt?
   
   > - Gnumeric
   > - Abiword: I think staroffice will be too much for the machine. Any
   >   alternatives?

Should be good.
   
   > - Browser? Will mozilla be too heavyweight? I like mozilla myself...

Try galeon. 
   
   > - FreeAmp

xmms could be choice. Again, mp3blaster in an xterm would suck less.
   
   > I'd like to install gtcd as well (part of the gnome-media package), so
   > they can turn CDs into MP3s, but that will pull in most of the gnome 
   > libraries. 
   
You do not need gtcd to rip cd's. Install cdparanoia and lame
(unofficial package). That should do the trick without pulling in the
gnome libs.
   
Regards,

-- 
Sridhar M.A.mas at uomphysics dot net

A little inaccuracy sometimes saves tons of explanation.
-- H.H. Munro, "Saki"

whatever happend to tkdesk and xv in woody?

[Martin Edward John Waller]

Hello,

er - how come tkdesk and xv seem to have
disappeared out of woody?  Or is it just me?

Martin

Recording in stereo

[Sridhar M.A.]

Hi,

I am facing some problem while recording from my tape player. My set up
is as follows:
 
   Kernel 2.4.18, Debian woody, 
   alsa 0.9beta10
   Sound card: Yamaha ymfpci
   
I can play mp3 files fine. I have plugged the stereo out of my tape
player to the line in of the sound card. I used rec (from sox package) 
to record the audio. It is being recorded in mono. When I try the
command 

   $ rec -c 2 test.wav

nothing is heard; only silence. Has anybody faced a similar problem? Any
suggestions would be helpful. Similar thing happens even when I use
arecord, the recording program of alsa-utils package.

Regards,

-- 
Sridhar M.A.mas at uomphysics dot net

You will gain money by an illegal action.

Re: Debian install for beginners?

[David B Harris]

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:57:58 +
"Karl E. Jorgensen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Has anybody else had experience with setting up a Debian GNU/Linux box
> for friends who wants to get started with computers? If so then I'd
> appreciate your comments/input.
> 
> I plan to use:
> - Debian GNU/Linux (off course!)
> install minimal potato, set up apt to point to woody (with
> preferences for security updates from potato). I've most most
> packages in my apt-proxy cache anyway.
> - hand-rolled 2.4.17 kernel 
> Basically a kernel-package job, probably with tmpfs for /tmp and
> /var/run
> - XFree 4.1.0
> - xdm (anything small will do)
> - Icewm - not gnome. (it seems lightweight) Alternatives welcome.
> - Mail client - sylpheed? (there was a discussion on debian-user about
>   this recently. I need to read up on that)
> - Gnumeric
> - Abiword: I think staroffice will be too much for the machine. Any
>   alternatives?
> - Browser? Will mozilla be too heavyweight? I like mozilla myself...
> - Any progs/applets available for controlling pppd?
> - Some games
> That's probably what they will mostly use the machine for.
> ace-of-penguins looks nice.
> gotta have tetris too.
> Ideas?
> - Gimp
> - FreeAmp
> - mgetty so I can dial in if needed. Should also be usable for fax.

You have basically described my laptop setup. Except for the following
differences:

GQmpeg instead of FreeAmp. gqmpeg uses mpg123/mpg321 to actually play
music. It's small, it's light, it's themeable beyond recognition(way
more so than XMMS, though I believe FreeAmp is about on-par here).

Galeon instead of Mozilla. Okay, I actually use Netscape 4.xx on my
laptop :) But it's only got 32M of memory, while you have 64M. Given the
environment you're looking to run, I would suggest you give Galeon with
tabs a go. There's a fair bit of overhead in creating new windows, and
if you take the time to learn how to use the tabs to your advantage(say,
maybe a week of normal browsing without using anything *but* tabs),
they'll probably grow to like 'em.

I use WDM instead of XDM. No big difference.

I use Sylpheed as well. I strongly recommend it in this case with not
much in the way of CPU power. Sylpheed is, if not *the* fastest, one of
the fastest MUAs out there. (Yeah. And this is despite the fact that
it's not a console-based client. Just goes to show that it doesn't mean
it's fast if it's text :)

I don't use pppd, but I *do* use gkrellm. It's got lots of blikenlights,
your friends may like having it on their desktop for the cool factor. It
also has what's called a "Timer button" or "net button" or somesuch.
Configure gkrellm to monitor ppp0; if it's up and they hit the button,
it executes one command. If it's down and they hit the button, it
executes a different command.

KDE stuff should run reasonably well on this machine, if you don't have
much else running when you use it. So, for instance, you could probably
use KOffice as the office suite. I agree that Open Office is probably
too large.

Obviously the bottleneck on this machine is the CPU. Stuff like Open
Office, Mozilla, and fancy mail clients are really gonna bog it down.
But the alternatives are great :)

-- 

\ David B. Harris, Systems administrator   |   http://www.terrabox.com /
/  [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://eelf.ddts.net  \
\==/
/ Clan Barclay motto: Aut agere, aut mori.  (Either action, or death.) \



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Re: Greek keyboard on Woody - SOLVED

[George Karaolides]

Hi all,

I now have a Greek keyboard based on the UK keyboard layout, as needed for
Cyprus.

I got that by copying the file /etc/X11/xkb/symbols/el to a file el_CY in
the same directory, and hand-editing the differences between UK and US
keyboards into it as obtained from the file named "gb" in the same
directory.  All "include" entries in the same file referring to "el" must
also be changed to "el_CY".

I then changed the XkbLayout entry in /etc/X11/XF86Config to el_CY.

My keyboard map still needs a little debugging but I think I'm almost
there.

Thanks,

|   George Karaolides  Linustech Advanced Solutions,  |
|   tel:   +357 22 55 61 29  86 Ifigenias Street, 3rd Floor,  |
|   web:   www.linustech.com.cy  Strovolos, Nicosia CY 2003,  |
|   email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Republic  of Cyprus.  |

RE: The future of Debian install??

[Michael Marziani]

Woah folks..  I actually think you guys are saying some of the same
things, but not quite expressing it the same ways.

In my original post, I was just thinking how it would be nice to have
the option of having some things done automatically rather than do it
all by hand.  I understand it's very important to the debian community
for the deb newbie to learn the install and understand the system that
they are setting up, but for those of us who have installed debian many
many times it would be nice to select an option that does a few things
automatically.  Once you understand a process, there is no point in
repeating it just for repitition's sake.  Why do we script tasks?  Same
reason.

Anyway..  That's the only point I was trying to make.

-Mike

_
Michael D. Marziani
Systems Administrator


-Original Message-
From: Francisco M. Marzoa Alonso [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 5:07 AM
To: Oki DZ
Cc: Michael Marziani; debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: The future of Debian install??


On Friday 08 March 2002 06:55, Oki DZ wrote:
> Francisco M. Marzoa Alonso wrote:
>
> The install part on RH is better than what's in Debian, even today; 
> especially when it goes to X. I never said that fresh install in 
> Debian was easier. On Debian, it is a _lot_ easier when installing 
> individual package; in my case, using apt-get.

Yes, apt-get is a great tool, but we wasn't talking about it.

> > Keep on mind that everyone can configure this distribution; its not 
> > a matter of brain, its a matter of TIME, and there's a lot of people

> > that needs a computer to do things very different that spent time 
> > configuring the SO, specially if they're not computer technicians; 
> > they do NOT NEED to know
>
> Well, I believe that given the same task, if somebody can do it 
> faster, then there's something in the brain.

An elitist... well, if you can configure X from scratch faster than the 
computer itself, then you should think about go to the Guinness show. 
Computers are done to make our lifes easy and to let us avoid repetitive

tasks. I'm not psychologist, but I think making repetitive things faster
is 
not a manner of evaluate inteligence (or is it?). A monkey can do that
kind 
of things faster than an human if it is trained.

> > nothing about the underlaying technology as, in example, a JAVA 
> > programmer DO NOT NEED to know nothing about x86 assembler or an x86

> > assembler programmer DO NOT NEED to know the machine codes of each 
> > mnemonic.
>
> I believe that on installing a fresh Debian system, X is the barrier 
> that you have to overcome; if in fact you needed to run X.
>
> BTW, in the homepage, it is stated that the friendly UI is the shell; 
> even for beginners. In http://packages.debian.org/unstable:
> Shells
> Command shells. Friendly user interfaces for beginners.

There was an old expresion that looks like "Unix is user friendly, but
it 
choose its friends carefully".

> So, regarding X on Debian, X is extra; something that you have to deal

> with to pass the beginner stage.

This is not reasonable indeed. Imagine that a graphic designer needs to
use 
its system to develop images; yes, it can write a jpeg byte by byte with
the 
help of 'dd bs=1 if=/dev/stdin >> mygraph.jpg' (vi is for awful users,
echo 
sucks! gimp? what's gimp?) a calculator (moreover, without it) a lot
of 
paper and more patiente. Despite the fact that fractals are for 
mathematician, not for graphic desingers, then it could think "well...
why 
I'm using a computer?".

You don't need to know how a turbo works or a direct inyection diesel
engine 
does to be an excellent driver.

Is the computer that must cover the requeriments of the user, and not
the 
other way.

> It's a bit different with other Linux
> systems; on others, you'd get into X (pretty automatically) and then 
> go to the command shells when they are ready. On Debian, you go to the

> shell first; at least to learn what "ls" is. Later, when you need 
> something fancy (like others), you have to install X (pretty manually,

> espescially on XF86Config).
>
> I believe that the Debian approach is better, in terms of learning;

[...]

> Thing is, I believe that people wouldn't go manual if they could do it

> automatically.

[...]

Integrist? Well, If you want to learn how X works, then learn how X
works, if 
you want to practise some kind of religion, then do it, but let the rest
of 
people decide by themselves what they need/want to learn. 

> > Finally, I'll like to know everything about every field, but none 
> > lives forever.
>
> None lives forever... but to know everything, actually all you need to

> do is to go in silence; in all there is silence, and in silence there 
> is all.

Erm... did you see Kung-Fu reciently? know everything in a life is, of
course 
impossible, but still to know "a lot" everyone needs time, in all there
is 
time, and time is short as hell. (Gamma Ray)

> > If Deb

Re: apt-get build-deps or -b switch

[Harry Putnam]

"Sean 'Shaleh' Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

>> 
>> Still apt-get -b source vim
>>  Fails with the same message as reported.
>> 
>
> The message you posted earlier did not actually have a useful error message
> (basically, it failed).

This got my attention.. Maybe these don't indicate what is at fault.
But they seem to hilight some part of the -b setup.

Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

dpkg-buildpackage: Build dependencies/conflicts unsatisfied; aborting.

Should that happen after running apt-get build-dep package?

mozilla-psm installed but not https

[Bill Moseley]

Did I miss a step or is a dependency missing?

I had mozilla installed on Sid.  But couldn't got to a SSL site.  Installed 
mozilla-psm, but still same situation.

Granted all I did was apt-get install mozilla-psm, and poke around google.  
Still seems like that should have got my https working.

Thanks,


-- 
Bill Moseley

Re: TV over LAN?

[Dave Sherohman]

On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 01:15:12AM +0100, Thomas Hessling wrote:
> X forwarding should do it. You might have to add the workstation to your
> laptop's xhost list (xhost +hostname_of_workstation) - depends on your X
> server configuration. Afterwards just ssh to your workstation and run
> the TV program.

Last I heard, xhost and X forwarding over ssh were unrelated.  You
only need one or the other, and I would recommend using the ssh
solution, as xhost is rather easily exploitable.  (More practically,
if you've got the spare CPU cycles available, you can have ssh
compress the data stream, which is a Good Thing if you run into
problems with the amount of network bandwidth used by your video
stream.)

-- 
When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists
have already won. - reverius

Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss

Re: From apt-move to apt-proxy

[Matijs van Zuijlen]

On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 10:54:49AM +0100, Matijs van Zuijlen wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 04:41:15PM +0100, Chris Halls wrote:
> > On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 03:45:41PM +0100, Matijs van Zuijlen wrote:
> > > On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 12:51:17PM +0100, Chris Halls wrote:
> > > > http://apt-proxy.sourceforge.net/apt-proxy/unstable
> > 
> > > I would like to try it, but I (well, my nameserver) can't seem to
> > > resolve apt-proxy.sourceforge.net at the moment. 
> > 
> > It's just part of sourceforge.  Can you see the apt-proxy project on
> > sourceforge?  If you can, follow the link to the homepage from there.
> 
> Yes, I saw the project page, followed the homepage link, and my browser
> couldn't find it. DNS lookup didn't work either. I'll check it again now
> ... yes, it's working again. Oh well ...
> 
> > 
> > > Is it too big to post here?
> > 
> > Well, no, not the script itself so I'll attach it.  I was hoping I might
> > trick you into installing the newer version so I had another tester :-))
> 
> Hm, now that I can actually get to that homepage, I may even consider
> it. Ah, I see it's aptable. Great. You have another tester.

To get back to the original topic of this thread:
Well, I'm testing it now, and I did some stupid things with my apt-move
cache, but it seems the apt-proxy-import script wouldn't work anyway,
since apt-move seems to strip off the _i386 part of the filenames.

-- 
Note that I use Debian version 3.0
Linux mus 2.4.17mvz2 #1 Wed Feb 27 17:41:43 CET 2002 i686 unknown

Matijs

Re: Still looking to replace Eudora

[Brian Stults]

On Fri, 2002-03-08 at 10:19, O Polite wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 2002-03-08 at 12:48, Brian Stults wrote:
> > Search the web for the unofficial debian package for gnome-spell. 
> > Install it and spell-checking in evolution will work.
> > 
> 
> http://www.luyer.net/EvoBuilds/spell-checking/gnome-spell_0.3-0_i386.deb
> 
> Thes unofisial package installles nisely. And is allso a reel eggo
> boster, kause it didnt finnd a cingle speling eror in this dockument! 
> 
> Am I missing something? Some hidden setting somewhere?
> 

I think it runs by default once you install the package.  At least
that's how it works for me.  When I cut and paste your message into a
new message, it detects all the misspellings.

Did you install all the dependencies (e.g. aspell, pspell) and a
dictionary?

-- 
Brian J. Stults
Department of Sociology
University of Florida
P.O. Box 117330
Gainesville, Florida 32611-7330
phone:  (352) 392-0265 x286
fax:(352) 392-6568 
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: apt-get build-deps or -b switch

[Sean 'Shaleh' Perry]

> 
> dpkg-buildpackage: Build dependencies/conflicts unsatisfied; aborting.
> 
> Should that happen after running apt-get build-dep package?
> 

they should not but it is possible for a few reasons:

*) the apt database is out of date.  Have you run apt-get update recently?

*) they build depend on something not in woody (bad, broken, but possible)

Re: The future of Debian install??

[Karsten M. Self]

on Fri, Mar 08, 2002, Oki DZ ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> Francisco M. Marzoa Alonso wrote:
> >Well, I don't know how RH goes now, but the first RH distribution I test 
> >about seven years ago (4.x or so...) has an installation like the one 
> >Debian has today. 
> 
> The install part on RH is better than what's in Debian, even today; 
> especially when it goes to X. I never said that fresh install in Debian 
> was easier. On Debian, it is a _lot_ easier when installing individual 
> package; in my case, using apt-get.

I'd partition my praise differently:

  - RH's installer does a really nice job with hardware configuration.
It tells you what you've got, picks sane defaults, and largely hides
complexity of choices from the user.  I'd not done an RH install for
some years until recently, I've done about a dozen 7.2 installs in
the past month or so.  Of all the hardware, what really matters is
X11, most everything else is fairly straightforward.

  - Debian blows RH out of the water when it comes to package selection.
RH offers bundled configurations which could be handled (and largely
are) by Debian tasks.  It's the individual package selection,
dependency resolution, and package updating where Debian clearly
exceeds RH.  I also find the package defaults, configuration layout,
and general cleanliness of a Debian install superior to RH, and the
fact that it's possible to move backwards and forwards through the
process in a Debian install allows for greater flexibility.  Debian
also offers more powerful and flexible shell access during install.

Given this, it would seem that improving HW detection would do a lot for
ease of use of a Debian installation.  The delta between the two isn't
great.

Peace.

-- 
Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/
 What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?   There is no K5 cabal
  http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org



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Re: whatever happend to tkdesk and xv in woody?

[Joey Hess]

Martin Edward John Waller wrote:
> er - how come tkdesk and xv seem to have
> disappeared out of woody?  Or is it just me?

xv turns out to lack permission to distribute modified copies, so we
pulled it from debian.

tkdesk has a number of serious bugs which nobody seems to be fixing, so
it has been removed from woody in preparation for release. There is
still a small chance it will be added back, if the bugs are fixed. In
the meantime, you can download it from unstable.

Here, I'll fix the tkdesk bugs, I don't know if this will get it back
into woody or not, we'll see.

-- 
see shy jo

Re: Tulip not installing

[timothy bauscher]

It would appear that the conflict has
not been resolved in Woody either. I
suppose I have two choices:

1. Get down and dirty, and spend lots
of time compiling this crapping tulip
driver myself
2. Install RedHat

I really hate both choices :-(

(==timothy==)

=

On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 11:58:57PM -0500, timothy bauscher wrote:
> 2.2r5 Potato Installation:
> 
> After configuring PCMCIA support and seeing
> the lights activate on my Netgear FA511 card,
> I tried to install the Tulip module via the
> "net modules" screen. These are the errors
> which I received:
> 
> --
> 
> /lib/modules/2.2.19/net/tulip.o: init_module: Device or resource busy
> Hint: this error can be caused by incorrect module parameters,
including
> invalid IO or IRQ parameters
> /lib/modules/2.2.19/net/tulip.o: insmod /lib/modules/2.2.19/net/tulip.o
> failed
> /lib/modules/2.2.19/net/tulip.o: insmod tulip failed
> 
> --
> 
> Assuming that this is a problem with Potato,
> and not my own ignorance, has this been fixed
> in the Woody or Sid releases?

I'm guessing yes, but that's a guess.  Here's link for you to try to
get it working now ...

http://lists.debian.org/debian-laptop/2001/debian-laptop-200112/msg00059.html

and just follow the thread.

-- 
Nathan Norman - Staff Engineer | A good plan today is better
Micromuse Ltd. | than a perfect plan tomorrow.
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]   |   -- Patton

Re: Debian install for beginners?

[Karl E. Jorgensen]

On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 09:27:47PM +0530, Sridhar M.A. wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 02:57:58PM +, Karl E. Jorgensen wrote:
>> 
>> - Icewm - not gnome. (it seems lightweight) Alternatives welcome.
> 
> Try fluxbox. It is fast and light. I particularly like its tabbed
> window arrangement.

Hadn't heard of that one. I'll study that.

> For a file manager, use rox. If your friend is comfortable with a text
> interface, emelfm should be very good.

Which package is rox in? An "apt-cache search" turns up lots of proxies
and the roxen challenger webserver, but nothing that looks like a file
manager. packages.debian.org doesn't seem to know either.

>> - Mail client - sylpheed? (there was a discussion on debian-user about
>>   this recently. I need to read up on that)
> 
> Why not mutt?

I love mutt. But I don't think it will be suitable for somebody who
wants to learn to use computers - especially unattended. I suspect that
mutt will be too daunting.

>[[snip]]
>
>> - Browser? Will mozilla be too heavyweight? I like mozilla myself...
> 
> Try galeon. 

I've avoided it so far, but it might just do for this one. Time to study
again.

>[[snip]]
> 
> You do not need gtcd to rip cd's. Install cdparanoia and lame
> (unofficial package). That should do the trick without pulling in the
> gnome libs.

Is there a GUI for that? So far I've been running gtcd + cdparanoia +
blade myself, with gtcd providing the GUI. 

> Regards,
> 
> -- 
> Sridhar M.A.mas at uomphysics dot net

Thank you - quite a few things for me to look into.

-- 
Karl E. Jørgensen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.karl.jorgensen.com
 Today's fortune:
Between infinite and short there is a big difference.
-- G.H. Gonnet


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How not to ask for help or report success (was Re: I fucked up apt-get)

[Karsten M. Self]

on Wed, Mar 06, 2002, Rudy Gevaert ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 08:28:41PM +0100, Rudy Gevaert wrote:
> > Hello,
> > 
> > I fucked up apt-get :( so badly I can't install or upgrade a thing.  Is
> > there a way to reconfigure everything so apt-get forgets about his past
> > options.
> > 
> > Also, when I do apt-get update, I see a the ftp.de.debian.org mirror
> > passing by, but this isn't in my sources.list.  How can this be?
> > 
> > Thanks in advance,
> 
> Problem fixed!

When you post a problem, post the command line used and error messages
received.

When you post a solution, er, post the _solution_.  Others can learn.

I'd very strongly recommend you read the following excellent essay by
Simon Tatham, "How to Report Bugs Effectively"

http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html

Please note that you are the person in the best position to know what
you're trying to do, what you've done, how the system's responded, and
generally how it's configured.  It's very helpful if you can post:

  - *Exact* commands or steps tried.
  - *Exact* error output or log messages.

Often, entering the error messages into a good search engine such as
Google (http://www.google.com/) will help set you on the road to
resolving your problems.

While others can offer suggestions, guidance, and experience, we cannot
see into either your mind or your machine's state.  This is very much a
case of "you have to help us help you".

Peace.

-- 
Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/
 What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?   There is no K5 cabal
  http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org



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Re: From apt-move to apt-proxy

[Chris Halls]

On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 05:28:54PM +0100, Matijs van Zuijlen wrote:
> To get back to the original topic of this thread:
> Well, I'm testing it now, and I did some stupid things with my apt-move
> cache, but it seems the apt-proxy-import script wouldn't work anyway,
> since apt-move seems to strip off the _i386 part of the filenames.

Try this:

find  -name '*.deb' | xargs -n 1 dpkg-name

That'll rename all the .debs to include their architectures.

HTH,
Chris
-- 
Chris Halls | Frankfurt, Germany

Re: Smart Debian Backup?

[Karsten M. Self]

on Thu, Mar 07, 2002, Lee Braiden ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> Hi Folks,
> 
> Just wondering, on Windows.. I once used a backup system (Quickbackup, I
> think), which would figure out which files on your system were standard
> installations off a CDROM (using a database of common software & files,
> I presume), and only backup your own personal stuff.
> 
> It stricks me that this would be much easier to implement on Debian or
> Redhat, given the already available database of files.
> 
> So, does anyone know of a solution like this?

Some advice and an (adaptable) script are at:

http://kmself.home.netcom.com/Linux/FAQs/backups.html

Peace.

-- 
Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/
 What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?   There is no K5 cabal
  http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org



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Re: UNSUBSCRIBE

[Karsten M. Self]

on Thu, Mar 07, 2002, Hans Ekbrand ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 05:44:25AM -0800, Paul 'Baloo' Johnson wrote:
> > On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > 
> > > UNSUBSCRIBE [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Baloo
> 
> What about a procmail rule that auto-replied that off-list? I for one
> would happily use it :-)

Well, if we all did the same ;-)

I apply the following in my 'list rules' file, part of the spamfilter
procmail recipies.   Please note the use of X-Loop to prevent
autoresponder looping.  The variable MY_XLOOP is generated elsewhere in
my procmail recipies as my FQDN email address.

# Rule to handle "help", "subscribe", and "unsubscribe" posts to lists.
:0
* 1^0 ^Subject:[]*$
* 1^0 ^Subject:[]*help$
* 1^0 ^Subject:[]*(un)*subscribe$
{
LOG="Administrative request on list mail"

# Reply with a helpful suggestion unless a loop header's been found.
:0c
* !^$MY_XLOOP
| ( formail -rtk -i "From: $OFFADDR" -i "$MY_XLOOP" ; \
echo "This is an automatically generated message."; \
echo ; \
echo "You appear to be sending a subscription, unsubscription, or"; \
echo "\"help\" message to a mailing list I'm subscribed to.  I am"; \
echo "not the list manager, just another subscriber."; \
echo ; \
echo "For subscription issues, there's often information in the "; \
echo "list mail itself.  Check the footer or email headers"; \
echo "(methods for the latter vary by email client), of list mail"; \
echo "(or of the quoted content of this message) and follow the "; \
echo "procedures mentioned here, or contact the listed"; \
echo "administrator."; \
echo ; \
echo "Failing that, try searching for a list management website"; \
echo "for this list via Google (http://www.google.com/) or a"; \
echo "similar search engine."; \
echo ; \
echo "If this still doesn't work, post a detailed description of"; \
echo "your problem and methods attempted to unsubscribe, to the"; \
echo "list."; \
echo ; \
echo "Note that mis-directed administrative mail to mailing lists"; \
echo "is considered an annoyance by many (hence this response),"; \
echo "but I also empathize with those who find themselves deluged"; \
echo "with the spigot that is many high-traffic lists these days."; \
echo ; \
echo "If you're requesting help on a specific topic other than"; \
echo "list subscription/unsubscription, please supply a more"; \
echo "meaningful subject line."; \
echo ; \
echo "Your original message has been discarded."; \
echo ; \
echo "Cheers."; \
echo ; \
echo "-- "; cat $HOME/.signature \
) | $SENDMAIL -oi -t

:0:
$SPAMBOX
}

...though I should really test this on myself, no ;-)


-- 
Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/
 What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?   There is no K5 cabal
  http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org



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subscribe

[Karsten M. Self]

...this is actually a test of my subscribe/unsubscribe procmail rule, to
see if and how it works properly.

I _do_ know how to sub/unsub, am subbed, and don't plan on leaving any
time soon.

Peace.

-- 
Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/
 What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?   There is no K5 cabal
  http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org



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Re: apt-get build-deps or -b switch

[Manoj Srivastava]

>>"Harry" == Harry Putnam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

 Harry> My final installation (#8) is a bare bones, noX, command line commando
 Harry> machine.

Those are the best ;-)

 Harry>  I'll get it setup to handle my household mail next week.  So
 Harry> haven't completely abandonded ship.  Just giving up on the extra
 Harry> tinkering for a while to take care of my school work.

Branden has pointed out, on -devel, that the following
 packages may help in setting up X: discover, mdetect, read-edid

I have not personally tried them yet, but they bear
 investigation, and may help.  My understanding is that auto-detection
 and configuration based on these and other tools may not make it into
 woody (so we have another couple of years as a geeky distribution),
 but there would be a serious effort post woody.

manoj
-- 
 Equal bytes for women.
Manoj Srivastava   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05  CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C

Re: mozilla-psm installed but not https

[Craig Dickson]

begin  Bill Moseley  quotation:

> Did I miss a step or is a dependency missing?
> 
> I had mozilla installed on Sid.  But couldn't got to a SSL site.  Installed 
> mozilla-psm, but still same situation.
> 
> Granted all I did was apt-get install mozilla-psm, and poke around google.  
> Still seems like that should have got my https working.

Yes, that should have done it. mozilla-browser + mozilla-psm should be
able to do https. It works for me on both Debian and Windows, and I
don't think I had to do anything else on either platform to make it
work.

Try running mozilla from the command line, being careful _not_ to
redirect stdout or stderr, and see if it says anything interesting after
a failure to reach a secure site.

One possibility is that you're behind a firewall that doesn't let you
get out on the https port. That's unlikely if you're at home, but I've
seen some truly insane corporate network admins who restricted outbound
as well as inbound connections. At one job I was at a couple of years
ago, I had to specially request that the admin open the NTP port so I
could keep my clocks in sync!

Craig


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Re: Certificate printer software? / turboprint

[Joachim Fahnenmueller]

Hi Stan,

turboprint (http://www.turboprint.de) works for many printers and does really a 
good job. However, it is not free software.
There is a version which does not cost anything and is ok for many purposes. 
The full version costs AFAIK EUR 20.
(BTW, it often causes confusion that you have no English word for kostenlos / 
gratuit. Can't you invent one?)

Regards, Joachim

On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 06:23:51PM -0500, stan wrote:
> Any sugestiosn for printing cute certificates with my debian system?

-- 
Joachim Fahnenmüller
Lehrer für Mathematik und Physik

Herder-Gymnasium
Kattowitzer Straße 52
51065 Köln

Re: The future of Debian install??

[Manoj Srivastava]

>>"Francisco" == Francisco M Marzoa Alonso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

 Francisco> An elitist... well, if you can configure X from scratch
 Francisco> faster than the computer itself, then you should think
 Francisco> about go to the Guinness show.  Computers are done to make
 Francisco> our lifes easy and to let us avoid repetitive tasks. I'm
 Francisco> not psychologist, but I think making repetitive things
 Francisco> faster is not a manner of evaluate inteligence (or is
 Francisco> it?). A monkey can do that kind of things faster than an
 Francisco> human if it is trained.

This is getting seriously off topic, but this is somewhat of a
 hot button with me.  You are touching on the tools vs appliance
 dichotomy here. 

A refrigerator is an appliance. I can walk to a refrigerator
 in Hong Kong, and I know how it works: open door, put  in,
 's temperature drops. Sure, there are minor variations (auto
 defrost or not), but by and large, appliance don't require training
 and manuals.

A tool is something else. Take an Axe. Please note that
 complexity is not an issue: an axe is far simpler than a
 refrigerator.  But as anyone trying to split firewood know, using an
 axe requires training. An Axe is dangerous: hit the chunk of wood
 wrong, and it can rebound off and take off your foot. It is, however,
 more flexible and can do more things than the appliance (toaster,
 refrigerator) -- chop trees, tear through doors and walls in rescues,
 chop wood to kindling, Executioners axes, war axes, throwing axes --
 lots of variations for the tasks.

Microsoft has made money trying to convince people a general
 purpose computer, one of the most versatile tools invented by man, is
 really a mere appliance, and needs no training to use well.

I beg to differ. A computer is a marvelous, versatile,
 flexible, configurable tool, and, I prefer to actually learn how
 to use ones tools. 
 
I probably shall be flamed for this.

manoj
 who shudders at visions of hammering nails with a chain saw
-- 
 A salamander scurries into flame to be destroyed. Imaginary creatures
 are trapped in birth on celluloid. Genesis, "The Lamb Lies Down on
 Broadway" I don't know what it's about.  I'm just the drummer.  Ask
 Peter. Phil Collins in 1975, when asked about the message behind the
 previous year's Genesis release, "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway".
Manoj Srivastava   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05  CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C

Re: TV over LAN?

[Craig Dickson]

begin  Dave Sherohman  quotation:

> Last I heard, xhost and X forwarding over ssh were unrelated.

Definitely; with ssh forwarding, your display actually seems to be on
a local port, so adding the ssh client machine to xhost is irrelevant.

> You
> only need one or the other, and I would recommend using the ssh
> solution, as xhost is rather easily exploitable.

Depends how much you trust the local network. If I'm running X across
the LAN either at home or at the office (we're a very small company),
I just use xhost, because I feel reasonably secure. Across the Internet
(sans VPN) or in a large company, I might prefer ssh forwarding.

I would also expect that not encrypting the traffic has some effect on
performance, though I have never actually tested this.

> (More practically,
> if you've got the spare CPU cycles available, you can have ssh
> compress the data stream, which is a Good Thing if you run into
> problems with the amount of network bandwidth used by your video
> stream.)

This depends on the network bandwidth available, as well as the CPU
power at hand. On a 100 Mb network, I would think that MPEG2 video is
unlikely to be a bandwidth problem unless you have many streams running
at once through the same segments or hubs.

Craig


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Re: How not to ask for help or report success (was Re: I fucked up apt-get)

[Craig Dickson]

begin  Karsten M. Self  quotation:

> When you post a problem, post the command line used and error messages
> received.
> 
> When you post a solution, er, post the _solution_.  Others can learn.

Avoiding casual obscenities doesn't hurt either. (in reference to the
original post, not Karsten's excellent advice)

Craig


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unsubscribe

[Axel Minck]

Title: Message



 


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Boottime keymap

[Daniel Toffetti]

Hi !

I've renamed boottime.kmap.gz in /etc/console to boottime.kmap.gz.bak 
and copied es.kmap.gz in /usr/share/keymaps/i386/qwerty to 
/etc/console/boottime.kmap.gz, so that the spanish keymap loads every 
time I boot.
Is this the right way to do it ?

TIA

-- 
Daniel Toffetti --- 'There is no spoon...' - The Matrix

Running the bleeding edge Debian Sid version 3.0
Linux luni 2.4.13 #1 SMP Sun Oct 28 18:30:53 ART 2001 i686 unknown

stunnel?

[Robert L. Harris]

Is anyone using stunnel to provide https access to an http only product?


:wq!
---
Robert L. Harris|  Micros~1 :  
Senior System Engineer  |For when quality, reliability 
  at RnD Consulting |  and security just aren't
\_   that important!
DISCLAIMER:
  These are MY OPINIONS ALONE.  I speak for no-one else.
FYI:
 perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5,(41*2),sqrt(7056),(unpack(c,H)-2),oct(115),10);'

Strange IP ports behavior

[Massimo Villa]

Sorry for my description but I'm a Linux's 
novice.
I have a pc Compaq DP133 MHz with kernel 2.2.19pre17 acting as mail server with PostFix. I don't 
know why in some day (not all) the different IP services (SMTP, POP, TELNET) are 
unavailable for the timeout period after that I 'm able to telnet or 
sending or receiving mail. The strange is that the day after it's all right and 
after 1 month or a week the problems appears again.
The linux pc has a private IP (192.168.0 class C) 
natted to a public address. And I have the problem only 
when the others private IP try to connect with this machine for any IP 
services. If I put all the privates IP in the "hosts" file, I partially resolve 
the problem (SMTP service for example goes only after the 75/80 seconds of 
timeout). It's seems a problem of reverse lookup. I haven't any internal DNS 
server for private resolving addresses.
My resolve.conf files has simply these two 
lines
nameserver 212.31.224.2nameserver 
212.31.224.3
and I try to change the DNS addresses but the 
problem remains.
There anybody who can tell me a possible 
solution or some tests to solve this problem?
 
Thanks

Re: User name in email address

[csj]

On Fri, 08 Mar 2002 12:45:36 +
Glyn  Millington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  Paul 'Baloo' Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
>  >
>  > /etc/passwd.  I don't see why this is a problem, since you can change it
>  > in most mail readers.
> 
>  No problem, just that
> 
>  a. I couldn't for the life of me remember where it is set.
> 
>  b. I don't like it when the system does things I can't track down
> somehow. 

I ran into a similar problem some whiles back. Since Debian is fairly
well-organized I guessed the solution could be found by a simple:

grep -rl PeskySetting /etc/*"

If that failed I would have done the same for ~me. That's one of the
joys of text-based configuration.

apt & cache

[Romuald DELAVERGNE]

Hi,

Recently, I upgraded my sid.
But some packages just installed are not in /var/cache/apt/archives.
I have a lot of free space disk.
So, is there any other reason that I could not find some downloaded 
packages ?


Thanks,

Romuald.

Woody

[César Augusto Seronni Filho]

Hi guys, anyone knows any news about the stable release of woody?
How many month we need to wait for it?

tks

Re: attached: new error output and XF86Config

[Simon Hepburn]

Looks to me like you are trying to use options that are only valid for an X4 
config with X3.3

What version of debian are you using ?
What version of X are you using ?

To configure X3.3 do 

#XF86Setup

-- 
Simon Hepburn.

Re: mozilla-psm installed but not https

[Bill Moseley]

On Friday 08 March 2002 09:04 am, Craig Dickson wrote:
> begin  Bill Moseley  quotation:
> > I had mozilla installed on Sid.  But couldn't got to a SSL site. 
> > Installed mozilla-psm, but still same situation.
> >
> > Granted all I did was apt-get install mozilla-psm, and poke around
> > google. Still seems like that should have got my https working.
>
> Yes, that should have done it. mozilla-browser + mozilla-psm should be
> able to do https.
...
> Try running mozilla from the command line, being careful _not_ to
> redirect stdout or stderr, and see if it says anything interesting after
> a failure to reach a secure site.

Doesn't show anything interesting.

bumby:~# apt-get update
Get:1 http://http.us.debian.org testing/main Packages [1640kB]
...
...
Get:22 ftp://debian.teleglobe.net unstable/contrib Release [85B]
Fetched 7081kB in 1m35s (74.0kB/s)
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done

bumby:~# apt-get install mozilla-psm
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
Sorry, mozilla-psm is already the newest version.
0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 62  not upgraded.

(62 not upgraded -- I assume that's life with Sid?)

bumby:~# exit

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ mozilla
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$

mozilla starts, but then trying a https: site nothing happens -- doesn't even 
complain.  Same with Galeon.  Before installing mozilla-psm, IIRC, I was 
getting a window pop up saying that I needed to install PSM.

Every rebooted, just in case ;)

> One possibility is that you're behind a firewall that doesn't let you
> get out on the https port.

I've got two other machines NAT'ed behind another machine running a firewall, 
but they work fine.  I'd expect mozilla to complain that it couldn't connect, 
too.

I moved my ~/.mozilla just in case.

Any other ideas?

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ ls -l /usr/lib/mozilla/libnssckbi.so
-rw-r--r--1 root root   230264 Mar  7 07:43 
/usr/lib/mozilla/libnssckbi.so

That's odd.  I installed mozilla at that time.  I installed the mozilla-psm 
at almost midnight.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ ls -l /usr/share/doc/mozilla-psm
lrwxrwxrwx1 root root   15 Mar  7 23:56 
/usr/share/doc/mozilla-psm -> mozilla-browser


-- 
Bill Moseley

Re: The future of Debian install??

[David Jardine]

On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 11:12:53AM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> >>"Francisco" == Francisco M Marzoa Alonso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
>  Francisco> An elitist... well, if you can configure X from scratch
>  Francisco> faster than the computer itself, then you should think
>  Francisco> about go to the Guinness show.  Computers are done to make
>  Francisco> our lifes easy and to let us avoid repetitive tasks. I'm
>  Francisco> not psychologist, but I think making repetitive things
>  Francisco> faster is not a manner of evaluate inteligence (or is
>  Francisco> it?). A monkey can do that kind of things faster than an
>  Francisco> human if it is trained.
> 
>   This is getting seriously off topic, but this is somewhat of a
>  hot button with me.  You are touching on the tools vs appliance
>  dichotomy here. 
> 
>   A refrigerator is an appliance. I can walk to a refrigerator
>  in Hong Kong, and I know how it works: open door, put  in,
>  's temperature drops. Sure, there are minor variations (auto
>  defrost or not), but by and large, appliance don't require training
>  and manuals.
> 
>   A tool is something else. Take an Axe. Please note that
>  complexity is not an issue: an axe is far simpler than a
>  refrigerator.  But as anyone trying to split firewood know, using an
>  axe requires training. An Axe is dangerous: hit the chunk of wood
>  wrong, and it can rebound off and take off your foot. It is, however,
>  more flexible and can do more things than the appliance (toaster,
>  refrigerator) -- chop trees, tear through doors and walls in rescues,
>  chop wood to kindling, Executioners axes, war axes, throwing axes --
>  lots of variations for the tasks.
> 
>   Microsoft has made money trying to convince people a general
>  purpose computer, one of the most versatile tools invented by man, is
>  really a mere appliance, and needs no training to use well.
> 
>   I beg to differ. A computer is a marvelous, versatile,
>  flexible, configurable tool, and, I prefer to actually learn how
>  to use ones tools. 

You can fiddle with your house, your garden, your car, your
computer, maybe even your refrigerator and your toaster, to
learn how they work and to configure them to your taste, but
most people don't have time for all of them.  People using
Debian are probably more interested in the computer than the
other things (I certainly am) and it seems to me pointless
for Debian to try to cater for other types.

>  
>   I probably shall be flamed for this.
> 
>   manoj
>  who shudders at visions of hammering nails with a chain saw
> -- 
>  A salamander scurries into flame to be destroyed. Imaginary creatures
>  are trapped in birth on celluloid. Genesis, "The Lamb Lies Down on
>  Broadway" I don't know what it's about.  I'm just the drummer.  Ask
>  Peter. Phil Collins in 1975, when asked about the message behind the
>  previous year's Genesis release, "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway".
> Manoj Srivastava   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
> 1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05  CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E
> 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
> 
> 
> -- 
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 

locale problem

[Marcelo Chiapparini]

Hi,

after upgrading to woody from potato its seems that 
I've lost the locale configuration. After installed 
the language-dev package and running "dpkg-reconfigure locales", 
choosing the "en_US.ISO8859-1" option, I got the message that 
this locale was generated successfully. But the system insits in 
ignoring them. The output from the locale command is still:

LANG=english
LC_CTYPE=
LC_NUMERIC="english"
LC_TIME="english"
LC_COLLATE="english"
LC_MONETARY="english"
LC_MESSAGES="english"
LC_PAPER="english"
LC_NAME="english"
LC_ADDRESS="english"
LC_TELEPHONE="english"
LC_MEASUREMENT="english"
LC_IDENTIFICATION="english"
LC_ALL=

instead of 

LANG=en_US.ISO8859-1
LC_CTYPE="en_US.ISO8859-1"
LC_NUMERIC="en_US.ISO8859-1"
LC_TIME="en_US.ISO8859-1"
LC_COLLATE="en_US.ISO8859-1"
LC_MONETARY="en_US.ISO8859-1"
LC_MESSAGES="en_US.ISO8859-1"
and so on.

I have another machine, with potato this time, 
which has the above en_US.ISO08859-1 locale 
settings. The file /etc/environment in this 
machine has the only entry "LANG=C", so that, 
I think that the file /etc/environment has nothing 
to do with the locate settings. My question is, 
how can I set the locale setting I want in the 
first machine? 

I've followed the previous discussion in this 
list regarding this problem, but no conclusive 
solution was given...

(BTW, the potato to woody upgrade doesn't upgrade 
the locale package.)

Thanks in advance

Marcelo

-- 
Marcelo Chiapparini
DFT-IF/UERJ
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Still looking to replace Eudora

[Ron Johnson]

On Fri, 2002-03-08 at 10:30, Brian Stults wrote:
> On Fri, 2002-03-08 at 10:19, O Polite wrote:
> > 
> > On Fri, 2002-03-08 at 12:48, Brian Stults wrote:
> > > Search the web for the unofficial debian package for gnome-spell. 
> > > Install it and spell-checking in evolution will work.
> > > 
> > 
> > http://www.luyer.net/EvoBuilds/spell-checking/gnome-spell_0.3-0_i386.deb
> > 
> > Thes unofisial package installles nisely. And is allso a reel eggo
> > boster, kause it didnt finnd a cingle speling eror in this dockument! 
> > 
> > Am I missing something? Some hidden setting somewhere?
> > 
> 
> I think it runs by default once you install the package.  At least
> that's how it works for me.  When I cut and paste your message into a
> new message, it detects all the misspellings.
> 
> Did you install all the dependencies (e.g. aspell, pspell) and a
> dictionary?

Hi,

These are the official packages that are installed on my machine:
aspell-en   0.33.7.1-8   English dictionary for aspell
dict1.5.5-7  Dictionary Client
wenglish2.0-2English dictionary 
aspell  0.33.7.1-8   A more intelligent replacement for the 
 ispell spell checker
aspell-en   0.33.7.1-8   English dictionary for aspell
gaspell 0.30-10  Gnome front end to the aspell spell checker
libaspell10 0.33.7.1-8   The aspell spell checker runtime libraries.
libpspell4  0.12.2-5 Portable spell checker interface library

In addition to these, are you all (O & Brian) saying that I need 
the unofficial gnome-spell package?

_Why_ is gnome-spell not an official package?

Thanks,
Ron
-- 
++
| Ron Johnson, Jr.Home: [EMAIL PROTECTED]|
| Jefferson, LA  USA  http://ronandheather.dhs.org:81|
||
| "(Women are) like compilers.  They take simple statements  |
|  and make them into big productions."  |
| Pitr Dubovitch |
++

Re: apt-get build-deps or -b switch

[Harry Putnam]

"Sean 'Shaleh' Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

>> 
>> dpkg-buildpackage: Build dependencies/conflicts unsatisfied; aborting.
>> 
>> Should that happen after running apt-get build-dep package?
>> 
>
> they should not but it is possible for a few reasons:
>
> *) the apt database is out of date.  Have you run apt-get update recently?
>
> *) they build depend on something not in woody (bad, broken, but possible)

I had run an update several times yes.  Within a few minutes of the
failure in fact.  And the whole system was installed over the network
from testing that same day. Shouldn't have been too out of date.

No use pounding this any further, for the moment.  I have a skeleton
install to tinker with and don't really need source built stuff right
now.  I'll get back to tracing it down in a week or two.

Re: Woody

[Daniel Ruoso]

The official debian site says that woody is close to the "Frozen" state,
not stable... and also says that doesn't have a date for the release,
debian releases when it's time..


On Fri, 2002-03-08 at 14:54, César Augusto Seronni Filho wrote:
> Hi guys, anyone knows any news about the stable release of woody?
> How many month we need to wait for it?
> 
> tks
> 
> 
> -- 
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
>