Re: Can't send mail with Gnus! :(
On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 20:39:25 -0500, Peter S Galbraith
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> posted to gmane.linux.debian.devel.emacsen:
>> - Multiple mailboxes
> MH-E simply lies on top on an MH implementation. While there is POP
> support in nmh (and IMAP in mu-mh), I simply use fetchmail to get my
> mail, which gives it to postfix which gives it to procmail. Therefore
> having multiple mailboxes is not a problem.
Not handling IMAP properly is a major deficiency IMHO. Anything which
treats IMAP as if it were POP is flawed. I need IMAP to work like
${beer} intended, i.e. messages are stored on the server along with
any state information that I or my MUA needs in order to handle them
properly.
I switched from (RMAIL to VM to) Wanderlust to Gnus and while I can
hardly comment on the current state of RMAIL (last version I used was
with Emacs 19.something), I can offer the following subjective
comments:
* VM has some "attitude problems" which I kept running into again
and again. There are hooks for many things but the code I have
looked at (admittedly mostly VM 6.xx) was a textbook example of
how not to write maintainable, extensible code. I was able to grok
enough of it to code advice around many of the features I wanted
to customize, but on the whole, it didn't feel a whole lot
different from the frustration I normally associate with
closed-source software. Documentation was impressive on the face
of it, but it covered some stone-age version and was sometimes
even not accurate for how VM 4.x actually worked. Also, last time
I looked, IMAP was not handled properly (i.e. "POP-over-IMAP")
* I only briefly tried Wanderlust. I liked some things but the
Debian packaging mess at the time (wanderlust vs wl versus wl-beta
vs wl2 and between them various outdated and/or bleeding-edge
and/or broken versions all over stable, unstable, and testing)
made me steer clear of it. I'm running on stable and at the time I
wasn't qualified to maintain my own backport. Maybe now I would
try harder. Also at least at the time, the documentation sucked
unless you were fluent in Japanese. (English was but comprehend
not and of date it out there.)
* I avoided Gnus for a long time for mail, because I tried it once
and wasn't able to cope. No doubt at the time (when I had only
just barely switched from GNUS 4.x to Gnus 5.x) the documentation
was part of the problem. I find that now, more often than not, the
only problem with the documentation is that there's more of it
than I can conveniently keep tabs on. The same problem with
features. Most of them make a lot of sense, and if you can
tolerate the feeping creaturism of Emacs, I guess you should be
able to cope with Gnus, too :-)
I like many of the ideas of MH and if I didn't want to be able to
access my email over orthodox IMAP, I would still be considering it
very seriously.
/* era */
--
formail -s procmail http://www.euro.cauce.org/
cat | more | cathttp://www.debian.org/
Re: Can't send mail with Gnus! :(
Quoting Peter S Galbraith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Jérôme Marant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I've always wanted to switch from Gnus to another Emacs MUA because I > > don't like its design (its API that is), but I failed to find anything > > equivalent. And I'm afraid, MH-E is VM-like, according to its > > documentation (no offence). And VM lacks many important features. > > Well, see below. The MH-E documentation is actually obsolete. The new > manual documenting all the new stuff is be released with the next > version (V8.0). The modern MH-E is _not_ the once in packaged emacs21 > (although the CVS Emacs does have a more recent version, it also > doesn't have the latest version; 7.3 vs 7.4.3). The Debian package of > MH-E is the last stable release. The CVS tree has a few extra features
Emacsen MUA (was: Can't send mail with Gnus! :()
On December 11, 2003 at 10:55PM +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > For me, a good MUA needs to handle: > > - Multiple mailboxes > - Hierachical folders : sorting mailboxes in different folders > - Mailing lists: when replying to the list, setting "To:" properly > as well as Mail-Followup-To > - Multiple personalities: sets of address+organisation+signature and so on > that you can switch on the fly > - at least: POP, IMAP, Mbox and Maildir > (I must have forgotten many features) For me, the following features are more important: - Encoding/decoding ISO-2022-JP, ISO-8859-*, UTF-8, etc. - MIME and GPG - MH-style and MHC (the mhc package, Message Harmonized Calendaring system) -- Tatsuya Kinoshita
Re: Emacsen MUA
Tatsuya Kinoshita <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On December 11, 2003 at 10:55PM +0100, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> For me, a good MUA needs to handle: >> >> - Multiple mailboxes >> - Hierachical folders : sorting mailboxes in different folders >> - Mailing lists: when replying to the list, setting "To:" properly >> as well as Mail-Followup-To >> - Multiple personalities: sets of address+organisation+signature and so on >> that you can switch on the fly >> - at least: POP, IMAP, Mbox and Maildir >> (I must have forgotten many features) > > For me, the following features are more important: > > - Encoding/decoding ISO-2022-JP, ISO-8859-*, UTF-8, etc. > - MIME and GPG Handling encodings and MIME is the least that a good MUA shall offer that's why I didn't even mention it. GPG can be handled with Mailcrypt. > - MH-style and MHC (the mhc package, Message Harmonized Calendaring system) Your choice seems to be Mew. Unfortunately, it doesn't offer what I would like. Cheers, -- Jérôme Marant http://marant.org
Re: Can't send mail with Gnus! :(
* Jérôme Marant | > MH-E has this for the M-F-T and any other field you wish to set based on | > who you are sending to. I coded it. Customize `mh-auto-fields-list'
Re: Can't send mail with Gnus! :(
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 20:39:25 -0500, Peter S Galbraith > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> posted to gmane.linux.debian.devel.emacsen: > >> - Multiple mailboxes > > MH-E simply lies on top on an MH implementation. While there is POP > > support in nmh (and IMAP in mu-mh), I simply use fetchmail to get my > > mail, which gives it to postfix which gives it to procmail. Therefore > > having multiple mailboxes is not a problem. > > Not handling IMAP properly is a major deficiency IMHO. Once MH-E V8.0 comes out, that will have proper support for GNU Mailutils's MH, and that does support IMAP. However, I haven't used it so can't comment on it.
Re: Can't send mail with Gnus! :(
Jérôme Marant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > OK. I guess you also periodicaly commit it in the Emacs CVS, right? Right. > > > - Hierachical folders : sorting mailboxes in different folders > > > > Procmail can do this, either into separate mail spools or directly into > > MH folders. I do the former, and have an xbuffy displaying the newmail > > count of 17 different spool files. Clicking on them makes MH-E read > > the spool file in question. > > How are they displayed in MH-E? Only Speedbar is mentioned. The speedbar in MH-E show the list of folders along with the number of unseen message and total messages. If you tell procmail to insert new mail directly into MH folders, you could use the speedbar to navigate the new messages. Another method is `mh-index-new-messages' bound to "F n" which will show a Folder-summary buffer displaying all new messages in all folders. I use neither of these because I like to have xbuffy display various spool files which are only sucked into MH directories when I read them. > > > - Mailing lists: when replying to the list, setting "To:" properly > > > as well as Mail-Followup-To > > > > MH-E has this for the M-F-T and any other field you wish to set based on > > who you are sending to. I coded it. Customize `mh-auto-fields-list'. > > I'm not sure what you seem by setting the To: field. There is a `reply > > to all' command. > > Well, in Mutt, you can define a list of email addresses (the mailing > list email addresses), and when you hit 'l' or 'L', it acts like a > followup: it fills "To:" with the mailing list address (which was found > in the list) but do not add posters to "Cc:" unlike followup. I see. > > > - Multiple personalities: sets of address+organisation+signature > > > and so on that you can switch on the fly > > > > MH-E has got that. I coded it. See the second screenshot in > > http://mh-e.sourceforge.net/screenshots/ > > > > You can also set an identity as part of the `mh-auto-fields-list' above. > > Is it possible to switch identity through a keystroke? Yes. There's the menubar, but there's also a keymap. > > > - at least: POP, IMAP, Mbox and Maildir > > > (I must have forgotten many features) > > > > Well, it's got to be MH style mail files. > > What does MH supports? Depends on the implementation. nmh creates MH directories and files from regular spool files and from POP. Mailutils mh handles IMAP AFAIK. Peter
Re: Emacsen MUA
On December 12, 2003 at 11:51PM +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > - Encoding/decoding ISO-2022-JP, ISO-8859-*, UTF-8, etc. > > - MIME and GPG > > Handling encodings and MIME is the least that a good MUA shall offer > that's why I didn't even mention it. Peter's message (recent post to this list, using MH-E) is not a MIME message. It has non-ascii characters without `Content-Type:'. -- Tatsuya Kinoshita
