Re: pine in other distributions?
On Tue, Sep 28, 1999 at 01:55:47PM -0700, Nick Moffitt wrote: ... > > From http://linuxmafia.com/debian/tips (and based on some > suggestions by yours truly): > > pico can be emulated by a symbolic link to the simple editor "ae", > which is really very close to pico: > >cd /usr/local/bin >ln -s ../../../bin/ae pico isn't it better to use jpico? (it is joe with pico keybindings, and comes quite close) -- ------- | Radovan Garabik http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__ garabik @ fmph.uniba.sk | --- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
Re: Permission policy
On Thu, Mar 16, 2000 at 01:43:22AM +0100, Bernd Eckenfels wrote: > On Wed, Mar 15, 2000 at 01:12:49PM +0100, Volker Ossenkopf wrote: ... > > BTW: there is a idea for settig groups for console access to devices > like cdrom, floppy, sound, mic, cam... so each user who logs into the > sonsole will get added to that groups, then your program does not need to be > sgid anyrthing, which is bad anyway since everybody even on networked > terminal could start it. I am by setting all linux installations this way: I add this line to /etc/security/group.conf: login;tty?|tty??&!ttyp*;*;Al-2400;floppy, audio and configure pam to use it. -- ----------- | Radovan Garabik http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__garabik @ melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk | --- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
Re: blue on black is unreadable (was Re: Bug#60753: mutt: /etc/Muttrc should not use colors)
On Mon, Mar 20, 2000 at 10:31:40AM +1100, Craig Sanders wrote: > > lynx has the same problem. hyper links are blue on black, which makes it > very difficult to see where you are going. fixed with: > > COLOR:1:cyan:black > COLOR:5:brightcyan:black I wonder who made up the default lynx colours... it is totally nauseating! the first think I do when installing new debian, I always reconfigure lynx to have saner colours (e.g. highlighted links are inverse) COLOR:0:lightgray:black COLOR:1:yellow:black COLOR:2:brightred:blue COLOR:3:green:black COLOR:4:magenta:black COLOR:5:blue:black COLOR:6:black:lightgray COLOR:7:magenta:cyan -- ------- | Radovan Garabik http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__garabik @ melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk | --- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
Re: Bug#60753: mutt: /etc/Muttrc should not use colors
On Tue, Mar 21, 2000 at 04:33:13PM +1100, Brian May wrote: > For instance I push the up arrow numerous times to get my editor to go > to the top of the file, and all of a sudden, the escape comes detached > from the [D, and I suddenly end up altering my file, inserting invalid > data, perhaps without even realizing it. > > IMHO, the sooner this dead escape standard is dropped in favour of the > better standard (IIRC: set the high bit on control characters), the are you sure this would be better? you need to type 8-bit characters too... -- ----------- | Radovan Garabik http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__garabik @ melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk | --- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
Re: Bug#60753: mutt: /etc/Muttrc should not use colors
On Wed, Mar 22, 2000 at 06:33:31PM +1100, Brian May wrote: > >>>>> "Radovan" == Radovan Garabik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Radovan> On Tue, Mar 21, 2000 at 04:33:13PM +1100, Brian May > Radovan> wrote: > >> For instance I push the up arrow numerous times to get my > >> editor to go to the top of the file, and all of a sudden, the > >> escape comes detached from the [D, and I suddenly end up > >> altering my file, inserting invalid data, perhaps without even > >> realizing it. > >> > >> IMHO, the sooner this dead escape standard is dropped in favour > >> of the better standard (IIRC: set the high bit on control > >> characters), the > > Radovan> are you sure this would be better? you need to type 8-bit > Radovan> characters too... > > I was wondering about that too.. > > However, the use of "escape" for two purposes (1. the escape > character, 2. a prefix for other control characters) is what I really > dislike. Was there, once upon a time, a standard that used 00 as the > prefix for control characters. Might cause problems in C strings > though... > > Perhaps the prefix character really needs to be replaced with some > other character that doesn't already (and never will) exist on the > keyboard (if anything else exists). An elegant solution wouldbe to use escape only as a character "escaping" the next char, i.e. prefix for control chars, and what we know as an escape character would be represented as Esc Esc. But this would probably break up almost all applications -- --- | Radovan Garabik http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__garabik @ melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk | --- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
Re: blue on black is unreadable
On Wed, Mar 22, 2000 at 11:41:35PM -0400, Peter Cordes wrote:
> > Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 13:56:52 -0600
> > From: Steve Greenland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: debian-devel@lists.debian.org
> > Subject: Re: blue on black is unreadable
> >
> > On 21-Mar-00, 20:06 (CST), Peter Cordes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > The Linux text console is readable (barely), but xterm uses and even
> > > worse
> > > colour for ANSI blue. (assuming black background). The fix for this
> > > is to change the colour used by xterm for ANSI blue, instead of changing
> > > all
> > > apps to use a different ANSI colour escape code.
> >
> > That's a neat trick for xterms,
... but it makes default midnight commander setting in a xterm wacky
(lightgray and white on bright blue...).
>
> Thanks :)
>
> > but since even you admit that
> > blue-on-black is only "barely" readable on the text console, wouldn't it
> > be better to just not have default configurations use blue-on-black? (It
> > shouldn't be a matter of changing apps, only default configs.)
> >
>
> Actually, I took another look at the console. The ANSI bright-blue used by
> ls for directories is actually quite easy to see. The normal blue used by
> lynx is not great, but readable. I'm sure there is a way to set the colours
> the kernel uses somewhere, so doing this would be the best option.
actually, there is a program doing this (ctheme), it works in userspace,
modifying VGA palette. It is really great, has many themes included, and can
modify palette on per-console basis.
I am thinking of packaging it, when I get some spare time
>
> > If you're setting up a default color scheme for an app, the basic "rule"
> > is to use light colored text on dark backgrounds, and dark colored text
> > on light backgrounds. The only other thing you need to know is that
> > neither red nor blue are "light" colors.
>
> Unless the darkish colours get used as alternate background colours, they
> are wasted. There only are 16 colours, so deciding to never use 4
> ({dark ,}{blue,red}) of them seems like a bad idea. Brightening them up so
> they look good on a black background is good, since hardly anything uses
> dark-but-not-black background colours. (jed uses blue for it's status line,
> but yellow is still visible against the BLUE_COLOUR I suggested.)
and midnight commander uses blue as background.
>
> Is there a reason why /etc/X11/Xresources/xterm defaults to black on white
> instead of gray90 on black? With my colour mods to make ls output visible,
> could the default change to be gray90 on black? Most new users won't get
> around to finding the xterm resources file for a long time, and I imagine
> they would be happier with black bg xterms until they do. We should cater
> to users who don't know where you change everything by having a nice set of
> default colours. This isn't like keymaps and stuff, since it only looks
> different, and isn't nearly so hard to get used to.
I personally like lightgray background and black foreground in xterm, because
this way small fonts are more readable... these preferences vary a lot
between users.
--
---
| Radovan Garabik http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ |
| __..--^^^--..__garabik @ melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk |
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Re: WNPP
On Mon, Mar 27, 2000 at 08:27:29PM -0500, Brian Almeida wrote: > ...or maybe not. It's got cryptographic hashing algos (tiger, sha1, etc), so > I probably can't package it due to wonderful US laws. Drat. Strange... I read everywhere that US export restrictions are now gone. (e.g. just a minute ago the announcement of redhat 6.2) > On Mon, Mar 27, 2000 at 08:12:37PM -0500, Brian Almeida wrote: > > I'll do this, since it relates to my work. :-) > > > > On Mon, Mar 27, 2000 at 12:39:52PM -0800, Joey Hess wrote: > > > Someone should package AIDE (http://www.cs.tut.fi/~rammer/aide.html). It's > > > a free tripwire replacement. > -- ------- | Radovan Garabik http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__garabik @ melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk | --- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
Re: FYI: dh_upx compresses i386 executables
On Sat, Apr 21, 2001 at 11:50:44AM -0700, John H. Robinson, IV wrote: > On Sat, Apr 21, 2001 at 11:41:56AM -0700, Alexander Hvostov wrote: > > On Sat, 21 Apr 2001 11:40:15 -0700 "John H. Robinson, IV" wrote: > > > > > however, on something like boot-floppies, this might be a > > > goddess-send. > > > > What about filesystem-level compression? > > http://www.netspace.net.au/~reiter/e2compr/intro.html : > > I wouldn't use e2compr on a ``production'' machine (where > neither faults nor delays are tolerated). > I would say the same about 2.4 kernel :-) > i would have to say no to that. > > if there were indication that it was ready to stabalize and be ready for > prime time, then add it to unstable and wait for bugreports (make it an > option, of course). I've run it for years (well, almost 2 :-)) on a heavily loaded production server without any problems whatsoever... -- --- | Radovan Garabik http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__garabik @ melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk | --- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
Re: Linux Fonts
On Thu, Aug 15, 2002 at 06:47:21AM -0700, Dustin Mofos wrote: > Hello all, > > Thanks everyone for the advice on what license to > release my font under. I looked at all the options > and decided to just go with the standard GPL. > > I have spent a lot of time on this font and it is > nearly done. it is a pretty standard sans-serif set, > including all the accent and special characters. I ^^ that sounds impressive :-) > embedded bitmaps for all the smaller point sizes, so > it should look, more or less, flawless onscreen. If > anyone would like to bang on it some, and give me > feedback I would be greatful. I haven't done the whole > family yet (no italics, bold, bold italics) I wanted > to make sure everything works perfect before I start > on those. I haven't tested it on Linux yet , so I am > interested to know if there are any problems. > well, many of those characters with accents do not work e.g. your font is completely unsuitable for displaying Slovak texts (in particular, ÄÅÄÄÅÄÅ are all missing. As well as many other letters with ogonek and circumflex) Also cyrillic and Greek seems to be bolder than latin part For a good page to see this, go to: http://www.unics.uni-hannover.de/nhtcapri/multilingual1.html -- ------- | Radovan Garabik http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__garabik @ melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk | --- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
Re: Linux Fonts
On Thu, Aug 15, 2002 at 09:07:47AM -0700, Dustin Mofos wrote: > Sorry, what I think of as a full character set is > defineatly not what someone else might think of as a > full set (I only have experience with english text).. > As far as the characters you mentioned specifically > they should be there, in fact I can see them using > Dustismo right now (except for ?? which I have no idea > what they are). Thanks much for the link, I can see > now that I am missing a great deal of characters. > not speaking about CJK characters :-) > > Also cyrillic and Greek seems to be bolder than > > latin part > > Could you explain this further? possible send me a > screenshot of what you are seeing? > That was my mistake - obviously Opera likes to substitute another font for cyrillic and greek, so these glyphs came from some other font. Anyway, I put a screenshot in http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/junk/dustimo.png I had not turned on antialiasing, which is probably responsible for low quality of displayed glyphs (in particular, notice glyphs for l,z,n). For comparision, see http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/junk/lynx.png which is the same page rendered in lynx/xterm, using default fixed width misc-fixed-* X11 fonts. The reason why I am so interested in missing glyphs is that there was a discussion on debian-devel recently about lack of free high quality variable width font. Dustimo could become base of such a font, if it covered at least MES-2 repertoire (maybe without Georgian and Armenian characters for the beginning). Adding CJK characters would require much greater effort. -- ----------- | Radovan Garabik http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__garabik @ melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk | --- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
Bug#159010: ITP: fonty-rg -- Set of fonts for linux console
Package: wnpp Version: N/A; reported 2002-08-31 Severity: wishlist * Package name: fonty-rg Version : 1.0 Upstream Author : Radovan Garabík <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> * URL : http://www.some.org/ * License : GPL Description : Set of fonts for linux console Based heavily on fonty package, fonty-rg contains fonts for linux console, including fonts for ISO-8859-1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,13,14,15,16, KOI8-R,U,C, CP1250, CP1251, CP1252 codepages, as well as two unicode fonts with wide coverage, and an ISO-8859-16 ACM file. -- --- | Radovan Garabík http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__garabik @ melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk | --- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
location of UnicodeData.txt
I am developping a (simple) application that needs to have UnicodeData.txt file available. Of course there are more applications that need this file. So far I found these two: perl-modules: /usr/share/perl/5.8.0/unicore/UnicodeData.txt console-data: /usr/share/unidata/UnicodeData-2.1.8.txt (way obsolete) I was thinking about putting the file into something like /usr/share/unidata (probably with more files, those from /usr/share/perl/5.8.0/unicore/). Moreover, my application can use the file even if it is gzipped, which is obviously desirable. What are your opinions about this? I would rather not want to Depend: on perl-modules (it is a python application :-)), but duplicating /usr/share/perl/5.8.0/unicore/UnicodeData.txt seems a waste of diskspace and bandwidth, and messing up with symlinks in postinst I like even less. -- --- | Radovan Garabík http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__garabik @ melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk | --- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
Re: reliable streams over UDP
On Fri, Nov 29, 2002 at 02:16:20PM +0100, Russell Coker wrote: > Do we have a library in Debian that provides reliable stream based > communication over UDP? > > I want to be able to deal with asymetric links and end-points that change IP > address so TCP won't work. Surely someone must have written something > similar to TCP but implemented on top of UDP. Is such a thing in Debian? If > not is there a DFSG compliant library that I can package? probably not what you are looking for, but utalk contains an implementation of semi-reliable protocol over UDP, used for, well, talk-like behaviour. -- --- | Radovan Garabík http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__garabik @ melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk | --- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
ITP: serpento -- dictd server written in python
Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist serpento is a dict (RFC 2229) server written in python. I am the author, package is already ready and being duploaded. License: GPL, with the addition: It can be linked with whatever you want, without any restrictions. (so that I can have a module in C there.. sigh) -- --- | Radovan Garabik http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__garabik @ melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk | --- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
Re: SGI's xfs
On May 2, 11:22am, Ed Boraas wrote: > Subject: Re: SGI's xfs > > Previously Matthias Berse wrote: > > > Are there any plans in supporting the usage of SGI's xfs filesystem in > > > debian? Are there kernel patches available and/or userspace tools > > > being packaged? > > > > The userspace tools have been in unstable for a while already actually. > > And the kernel patches are in incoming. > and how do you solve the requirement to use gcc version 2.91.66 for compiling? -- ------- | Radovan Garabik http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__garabik @ melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk | --- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
Re: ITP: serpento -- dictd server written in python
On Wed, May 02, 2001 at 02:17:40PM -0500, David Starner wrote: > On Wed, May 02, 2001 at 09:04:29PM +0200, Radovan Garabik wrote: > > Package: wnpp > > Severity: wishlist > > > > serpento is a dict (RFC 2229) server > > written in python. > > > > I am the author, package is already ready and being > > duploaded. > > Cool. The description will mention the differences between it and > dictd, won't it? It is all in README basically, it is.. uhm.. different :-) > > > License: GPL, with the addition: It can be linked with > > whatever you want, without any restrictions. > > (so that I can have a module in C there.. sigh) > > There's much cleaner ways of doing this, if you just want to link > with one module. If you send a more detailed description to > debian-legal, I'm sure we can give advice. If it's just Python, > I'd say "with the exception that it can be linked with Python". > The LGPL is about the same as your current license, but a lot > clearer. I know, I meant this as a stopgap until the licensing issues with python are resolved (hopefully with python2.1) On Wed, May 02, 2001 at 03:12:57PM -0500, David Starner wrote: > Also, does it use /var/lib/dictd/db.list or /etc/dictd.conf? If it None. Unfortunately, serpento uses different sort order for .index files, (not to mention that it has completely different configuration file) so plain old dict-* packages are unusable as installed. Script to create index files for serpento is included, but (currently) has to be run manually. > doesn't, then some sort of install-dict-dictionary needs to be made > and all the dict-* packages made to use it, or serpento needs to be > fixed to use it. Yes, I plan to add automatic conversion of index files and some kind of adding the existing databases to the configuration file, but so far I have no good idea on how to do it the best way. (perhaps divert dictdconfig... or conflict with dictd and provide own dictdconfig(8) - in fact, serpento clashes with dictd if you do leave the default ports the same, so a conflict would probably be justified anyway) -- --- | Radovan Garabik http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__garabik @ melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk | --- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
Re: Bug#96102: ITP: serpento -- dictd server written in python
On Thu, May 03, 2001 at 12:42:35AM -0400, Joey Hess wrote: > Radovan Garabik wrote: > > serpento is a dict (RFC 2229) server > > written in python. > > Can it be run from inetd? I'm really dying for a dict server that can be More or less, yes, it can, but currently it is a bit unusable since it takes forever to start (it has to parse the index file(s), and parsing is written in python - rewritting it in C is on my TODO list) On my 600MHz PIII it takes about 15 seconds, with about 50 index files (20MB total size) in /usr/share/dictd > run from inetd, since I run dict about 3 times a week, and my laptop is > typically offline and has onlt 64mb core. -- ----------- | Radovan Garabik http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__garabik @ melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk | --- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
Re: Bug#96102: ITP: serpento -- dictd server written in python
On Fri, May 04, 2001 at 09:19:29AM +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: > * Radovan Garabik > > | > Can it be run from inetd? I'm really dying for a dict server that can be > | > | More or less, yes, it can, but currently it is a bit unusable > | since it takes forever to start (it has to parse the index file(s), > | and parsing is written in python - rewritting it in C is on my TODO list) > > Why not just using cPickle and smart caching? It's pretty fast, ime. > well, that is a _really_ good idea, shame it did not occur to me :-) I am going to experiment with it a bit -- ----------- | Radovan Garabik http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__garabik @ melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk | --- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
Re: Bug#96102: ITP: serpento -- dictd server written in python
On Sat, May 05, 2001 at 12:24:56PM +0200, I wrote: > On Fri, May 04, 2001 at 09:19:29AM +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: > > * Radovan Garabik > > > > | > Can it be run from inetd? I'm really dying for a dict server that can be > > | > > | More or less, yes, it can, but currently it is a bit unusable > > | since it takes forever to start (it has to parse the index file(s), > > | and parsing is written in python - rewritting it in C is on my TODO list) > > > > Why not just using cPickle and smart caching? It's pretty fast, ime. > > > > well, that is a _really_ good idea, shame it did not occur to me :-) > I am going to experiment with it a bit > And it's done - using cPickle cut down startup time from 15 seconds to about 4 sec. Then I changed initialization to parse/unpickle index files only when the database is accessed for the first time, and startup time went down to about 1 second for biggest dictionary (webster). All on PIII 600 MHz with plenty of memory (i.e. all necessary files were already in buffer cache) Package is in incoming, you have to set up manually inetd.conf if you want to run it from inetd (this will be improved later) Also, it includes its own dictdconfig now, so automatic configuration to include all installed databases should work. -- --- | Radovan Garabik http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__garabik @ melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk | --- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
Re: step by step HOWTO switch debian installation into utf-8
On Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 02:42:31PM -0500, David Starner wrote: > > en_AU UTF-8 tells it to make en_AU a UTF-8 locale. If you want > en_AU.ISO-8859-1 as well, then add > en_AU UTF-8 > en_AU.ISO-8859-1 ISO-8859-1 this is probably the best idea > or (what I would recommmend) > en_AU.UTF-8 UTF-8 > en_AU ISO-8859-1 > to locale.gen. That's easier than hand-running localedef and keeps it > up to date with any locale bugfixes. but in this case glibc will normalize the name and put locale into /usr/lib/locale/en_AU.utf8, which, if I understand it correctly, works but is not The Right Thing(tm) -- ----------- | Radovan Garabik http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__garabik @ melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk | --- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
Re: How many people need locales?
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 02:21:04AM +0200, Santiago Vila wrote: > Hello. > > For the purposes of determining whether or not "most users need to > change the /etc/locale.gen file" Ben and I need an estimate of the > proportion of Debian users using locales among all Debian users. I have yet to meet a person who would ever need a slovak locale. Nobody cares at all (collate order? who needs that? Different format of numbers? This is not only unneeded, but even harmful. Different format of date? Who cares.. Gettext? Maybe, but nobody I know is using it, because they mostly understand english and slovak menus are more difficult to get used to when 70% of applications would be in English anyway). The _only_ _sole_ reason why people (I know) are using locales is to allow passing of 8-bit chars unaffected to/from the console (xterm, X, etc...) -- ----------- | Radovan Garabik http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__garabik @ melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk | --- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
Re: How many people need locales?
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 07:12:16AM +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > On Mon, 3 Sep 2001, Ari Makela wrote: > > > Santiago Vila writes: > > > > > For the purposes of determining whether or not "most users need to > > > change the /etc/locale.gen file" Ben and I need an estimate of the > > > proportion of Debian users using locales among all Debian users. > > > > Just about anyone who's not from English speaking countries. For > > example, we Finns need '?äö' and their capital versions. They just > > don't work if you don't set locales right. If you take a look at even ^ that is the point. You need to use 8-bit chars, not locales. Unfortunately, i18n (flawed) approach is to use locale to allow 8-bit chars. > > just European languages you can see that most of them cannot be > > written with a-zA-Z. Actually, I think only English can. I'm not sure > > of some of the smaller countries like Belgia, though. > well, the smallest country (Vatican) does not need 8-bit chars for Latin :-) > Belgium has three official languages (German, French and Dutch), and they > all need characters out of the a-zA-Z space, like ë, ?, é, ü, ç, and more. > > People from the Netherlands speak Dutch, so they need them too. > People from Luxembourg speak French, German or Letzebürge (not too sure > about the spelling of that language), so they need it too. > > I'm quite positive that only English doesn't need locales... Wrong approach. You have to realize that locales take care of 3 different things: 1) gettext People need gettext everywhere. There are people who prefer the original English messages, but in general, for other than english-speaking countries there is always a large user base that needs gettext 2) localization of system internals. This includes date format, collate order, currency, number format etc... This is harmful and people generally prefer to switch it OFF. Especially the so-called European number format: I have seen a program that used output like this: 1.2,1.5,3.1,5.4 In slovak locale, the output looked like this: 1,2,1,5,3,1,5,4. Aaargh. 3) isprint(3) and family This is where you need 8-bit chars, and the decision to put this into locale was wrong. And even English need 8-bit chars. 4) (did I say 3 things? :-)) Multibyte locales. This is a completely different beast. -- --- | Radovan Garabik http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__garabik @ melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk | --- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
Re: How many people need locales?
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 08:06:56PM +1000, Drew Parsons wrote: > I mostly agree, LC_CTYPE is the main thing I'm interested in with locales, > except for one other thing. Date format is *very* important. No, if it is unambiguous. > > To explain, my parents' anniversary is 8/1/63. Shall I congratulate them in > August, or in January? > and is it 1863, 1963 or 2063? (just joking :-)) Yes, date format is important but whoever designes his software to display 8/1/63 should be shot, locale or no locale. -- ----------- | Radovan Garabik http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__garabik @ melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk | --- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
Re: How many people need locales?
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 12:55:53PM +0200, Jean-Marc Chaton wrote: > * Santiago Vila [Mon, 03/09/2001 at 12:03 +0200] > > The bug basically says "/etc/locale.gen should not be a conffile > > because most people will need to modify it" > > I agree : > > - Almost all French users (and I think I can extrapolate: all the users > who need to read messages with non-ascii chars) need to set up a > '/etc/locale.gen' to see them correctly for example with mutt, and that > even though (and it's my case) the whole installation, menus etc is > still in English for a lot a reasons. but you have to realize one thing: they are not doing it because of locale. They are doing it because they want to tell their applications to pass 8-bit characters unaffected. Perhaps there should be default locale C.8bit (or something) and then most users would not need to set it up. (there was already an agreement that C.utf8 would be desirable) -- ------- | Radovan Garabik http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__garabik @ melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk | --- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
Re: How many people need locales?
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 02:34:58PM +0200, Miros/law Baran wrote: > 3.09.2001 pisze Radovan Garabik ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): > > > but you have to realize one thing: they are not doing it because of > > locale. They are doing it because they want to tell their > > applications to pass 8-bit characters unaffected. > > A quite elegant _theory_. Rather untrue. Falsified by me. > and proved by me :-) (question was about "most people") Of all the people I know who are using linux here (about 10), no one uses (slovak) locale for anything else then allowing to pass iso-8859-2 chars to/from the console. They hate, or at least are indifferent to having menus in their native language. They hate number format in slovak locale. Those who do not understand enough english are using czech/slovak windows (and are setting custom number format to use decimal dot and no commas, if their computer literacy is up to it) czesc -- ----------- | Radovan Garabik http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__garabik @ melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk | --- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
Re: How many people need locales?
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 11:54:29PM +1000, Roger So wrote: > Quite offtopic, but anyway... discussion is about locales generally already... > > On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 02:54:30PM +0200, Radovan Garabik wrote: > > They hate, or at least are indifferent to having menus > > in their native language. They hate number format in slovak locale. > > Why not create a proper en_SK.iso8859-2 locale, with the desired date > and number formats? well, ok, that would work, but the point is that locale is bloated and most people use just a few parts of it, parts that could be achieved by other ways. -- ------- | Radovan Garabik http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__garabik @ melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk | --- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
Date format (was: How many people need locales?)
On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 11:20:33AM +1000, Brian May wrote: > >>>>> "Radovan" == Radovan Garabik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Radovan> format is important but whoever designes his software to > Radovan> display 8/1/63 should be shot, locale or no locale. > > GNUmeric doesn't display the date in this format (it is up to the user > to pick what format is used), BUT it does require entering dates in > MM/DD/ format. > > - unless of course you have changed the locale... I would file a bug against gnumeric in this case. This is broken behaviour. Does in behave the same when you import data from text file? Then it is even more broken. -- ------- | Radovan Garabik http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__garabik @ melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk | --- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
Re: step by step HOWTO switch debian installation into utf-8
On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 12:01:24PM +0200, T.Pospisek's MailLists wrote: > Btw: > > > http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/debian-utf8/HOWTO > > Does not serve any pages to me - it's pingable though. If you've got > problems with that server you could put the HOWTO on the debian servers or > if that's a problem I'd gladly put it up at our site. > Nah - I was just a bit overactive with grsecurity networking setup :-) (it seemed to affect only some clients, though) But I will put it on debian server soon, it is better to have a copy somewhere else. -- ----------- | Radovan Garabik http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__garabik @ melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk | --- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
Re: Date format (was: How many people need locales?)
On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 09:17:12PM +1000, Martijn van Oosterhout wrote: > On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 08:56:54AM +0200, Radovan Garabik wrote: > > > > > > GNUmeric doesn't display the date in this format (it is up to the user > > > to pick what format is used), BUT it does require entering dates in > > > MM/DD/ format. > > > > > > - unless of course you have changed the locale... > > > > I would file a bug against gnumeric in this case. > > This is broken behaviour. Does in behave the same > > when you import data from text file? Then it > > is even more broken. > > Does that mean it should always take a certain format irrespective of the > locale? If so, which format? > It should reject commonly used ambiguous formats (such as NN/NN/NN, NN/NN/), or at least warn if something like this is entered. This should ideally be configurable, but rejecting should be the default (and independent on locale). -- --- | Radovan Garabik http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__garabik @ melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk | --- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
Re: step by step HOWTO switch debian installation into utf-8
On Wed, Sep 05, 2001 at 05:03:50PM +1000, Brian May wrote: > >>>>> "Vociferous" == Vociferous Mole <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > >> doesn't look like it to me: > >> > >> [503] [pluto:bam] ~ >LANG=en_AU:en_GB dia > >> > >> Gdk-WARNING **: locale not supported by C library > > Vociferous> From another message (in one of the numerous > Vociferous> "translated descriptions" threads), you can set > Vociferous> LANGUAGES=en_AU:en_GB, and it will do fallback. > > Are you sure? As far as I can tell, the value of LANGUAGES is totally > ignored. it is LANGUAGE, and you have to set LANG to something (which will be ignored in this case, but has to be set). -- --- | Radovan Garabik http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__garabik @ melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk | --- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
Re: ddts: notification about pt_BR-translation of the hello-debhelper description
On Wed, Sep 05, 2001 at 12:00:42PM +0200, Michael Bramer wrote: > If we talk about translation, this is not a big problem. You must only > use gettext all the time. Maybe we can throw away the 'maintainer > name' problem with this. (You know it: maintainer fields with > ÖÄÜöüüßåñïééõú... in the name.) > > We need only one .po file, like this > msgid "Werner Mueller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>" > megstr "Werner Mülller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>" > And the german User see the 'right' Name of this maintainer all the > time. except that I would suggest to do it the other way round, having the proper full name as original, and individual languages will transform the name according to their established charset. (So that all latin 1 and latin 2 languages does not need to translate the proper form Werner Müller, but latin 2 languages will ASCIIfy Javier Fernandez-Sanguino Peña into Pena, and koi8-r languages (russian) will use ASCII only form of both) -- --- | Radovan Garabik http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__garabik @ melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk | --- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
Re: step by step HOWTO switch debian installation into utf-8
On Wed, Sep 05, 2001 at 02:47:26PM +0200, Marek Habersack wrote: > are set to the fixed-misc USC version and it seems to work fine. The only > problem I have found is with the Unicode TTF fonts - mkttfdir doesn't > generate correct fonts.dir file for those AFAICT - all entries have their > charset set to ISO-8859-1 in the generated file. use ttmkfdir instead. It still does not generate 10646 encoding in output, but at least it will put there all the encodings that the font covers, and you can add 10646 entry by hand. I have however other problems with ttf fonts - they are EXTREMELY slow. When I use arialuni.ttf (25MB font with the best unicode coverage) as main font in konqueror, just drawing a page in ASCII takes 2 minutes (PIII 600 MHz). During those 2 minutes, X are unresponding, I cannot even switch to the console. Using fontserver at least allows me to switch to the console, and using -deferglyphs all helped a bit, but really only a bit. Using ttf font with less characters (lucida sans unicode, 300 KB) cuts down the time to 30 seconds - still untolerable. and X seems to be really unstable - mean time between crashes was reduced to 1 hour. So I replaced ttf fonts with bdf (unicode) fonts, speed is OK, but the X still keep crashing - in average once per day, but what is worse, they now crash really hard, leaving VGA adapter in graphical mode and console unusable. This does not seem to happen when I limit myself to non-UCS fonts. -- ------- | Radovan Garabik http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__garabik @ melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk | --- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
Re: step by step HOWTO switch debian installation into utf-8
On Thu, Sep 06, 2001 at 11:02:17AM +1000, Brian May wrote: > >>>>> "Radovan" == Radovan Garabik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Radovan> it is LANGUAGE, and you have to set LANG to something > Radovan> (which will be ignored in this case, but has to be set). > > Not only does it have to be set, but it looks like it can't be set to "C": > And it probably should be set to a valid locale (except C and POSIX, that is) When set to invalid locale, mc shows menus in English, but Hints in LANGUAGE. -- --- | Radovan Garabik http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__garabik @ melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk | --- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
Re: step by step HOWTO switch debian installation into utf-8
On Wed, Sep 05, 2001 at 03:10:16PM -0300, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote: > On Wed, 05 Sep 2001, Radovan Garabik wrote: > > I have however other problems with ttf fonts - they are > > EXTREMELY slow. When I use arialuni.ttf (25MB font with the best > > unicode coverage) as main font in konqueror, just drawing a page > > in ASCII takes 2 minutes (PIII 600 MHz). During those 2 > > minutes, X are unresponding, I cannot even switch to the console. > > Using fontserver at least allows me to switch to the console, > > and using -deferglyphs all helped a bit, but really only a bit. > > Use the xfs-xtt font server (which does well with really big fonts, unlike > the xfsft crap), do not allow the X server to touch such heavy fonts. Also, No big change in this regard (maybe a tad faster, but not much). However, there was one noticeable change (may be a bug in konqueror though): with xfs-xtt, konqueror stretches pages vertically by a factor of something like 100 times ! So you have heading, then several tens of blank pages, then first paragraph, then several blank pages etc... > setting deferglyphs=16 in both the X server and the font server might save > you a lot of grief. I have deferglyphs=all > > > mode and console unusable. This does not seem to happen when I limit > > myself to non-UCS fonts. > > Well, the UCS codepath is not as widely used and tested as the ISO-8859 > ones; and CJK fonts (as well as unicode fonts, obviously) sometimes make > very have usage of features of the ttf spec that "easy" fonts will not > touch... > > I repeat: do not allow the X server to even touch ttf fonts, or you risk > crashes. Use the xfs-xtt font server instead (at least, when it crashes, it ok, I removed references to freetype module from xfree86config and I will see if it helps (but, path to font server was at the beginning, so I guess X was not getting to the fonts) -- --- | Radovan Garabik http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__garabik @ melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk | --- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
Re: step by step HOWTO switch debian installation into utf-8
On Thu, Sep 06, 2001 at 01:29:11PM +0200, Marek Habersack wrote: > ** On Sep 05, Radovan Garabik scribbled: > > use ttmkfdir instead. It still does not generate 10646 encoding in output, > > but at least it will put there all the encodings that the font covers, > > and you can add 10646 entry by hand. > I noticed that it also fails to process fome TTF fonts (check out > http://curiosity.de/downloads/fonts/curefonts.zip - most of them get > ignored when generating fonts.dir) they are not complete - ttmkfdir generates lines only for encodings the font contains all the chars of (obviously, very few - if any - ucs fonts pass this test) Use -c option with such fonts. > > > I have however other problems with ttf fonts - they are > > EXTREMELY slow. When I use arialuni.ttf (25MB font with the best > > unicode coverage) as main font in konqueror, just drawing a page > > in ASCII takes 2 minutes (PIII 600 MHz). During those 2 > Are you using the freetype backend? > freetype backend, xfs font server and xfs-ttf font server all seem to take the same long time. I tried xtt backend but I was not succesful in setting it up. -- ------- | Radovan Garabik http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__garabik @ melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk | --- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
Re: Bug#111309: ITP: xtail -- like "tail -f", but works on truncated files, directories, more
On Fri, Sep 07, 2001 at 09:56:37AM +0200, Eric Van Buggenhaut wrote: > On Thu, Sep 06, 2001 at 04:21:04PM -0700, John H. Robinson, IV wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 06, 2001 at 04:09:49PM +0200, Marc Haber wrote: > > > On Wed, 5 Sep 2001 21:08:21 +0200, Eric Van Buggenhaut > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >Do you want to go for another name then ? I find it quite confusing. > > > >mtail or > > > >multitail might be clearer. > > > > > > Changing the upstream name for this sake is a bad idea. Hey, xinetd > > > doesn't need X as well. > > > > nor does xargs. nor does xtell > > OK, that makes 2 packages out of ... > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~]$ zgrep Package > /var/lib/apt/lists/192.168.2.73_debian_dists_testing_main_binary-i386_Packages\ > |grep ' x' |wc -l > 417 > [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~]$ > > > 417 (!) not all these packages are X-related. I am sure one could find more programs beginning with x and not having anything in common with X (e.g. xfs filesystem tools) We also do not name curses packages with first letter c, daemons with first letter d (but with the last one :-)) etc... -- --- | Radovan Garabik http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__garabik @ melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk | --- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
Re: kswapd eating CPU power ... any ideas why?
On Sun, Sep 09, 2001 at 06:19:01PM +0200, Hugo van der Merwe wrote: > Hello, > > I'm working on a little project putting Debian on a CD. (Works great so > far, have X up and running, most likely just a kernel recompile away > from getting network etc. up too... (using tmpfs for rw directories, and > some symlinks). A friend is figuring out RedHat... we will publish what > we've done when we've got it all relatively nicely written out, if > anyone is interested?) > > Anyway, the problem I have is, top is showing 99.8% CPU usage by > kswapd... any ideas why this might be? How can I find out what it is > doing? isn't it trying to swap to the CD? :-) what does /proc/swap say? -- ----------- | Radovan Garabik http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__garabik @ melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk | --- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
step by step HOWTO switch debian installation into utf-8
On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 01:08:02PM +0200, Radovan Garabik wrote: > But I will put it on debian server soon, it is better to have > a copy somewhere else. > slightly updated version is now also at: http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/debian-utf8/HOWTO http://people.debian.org/~garabik/debian-utf8/HOWTO -- --- | Radovan Garabik http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__garabik @ melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk | --- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
Re: [2002-04-06] Release Status Update
On Sat, Apr 06, 2002 at 10:24:34PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: > Hello again, > > Over the past few weeks most of the following packages have been removed > from the upcoming release due to bugs and such [0]. > > efingerd this bug has been closed already for some time, and the security issue concerned only potato anyway > xtell > worst security issues has already been fixed in an uploaded package, I have not closed the bug since point 2) is not fixed yet (will be rather quickly). Gee, I do not like people who submit zillions of unrelated bugs in one bugreport :-) -- ----------- | Radovan Garabik http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__garabik @ melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk | --- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ITP: utalk
from the description: utalk uses a protocol, based on UDP, which ensures a quick response even over links with high packet loss, allows editing of previously typed text, including scrollback, deletion and overstrike, and provides some additional features. It is not compatible with BSD talk program. author: Roger Espel Llima <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> copyright: GPL I am not the developer yet, you can get the package from http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/utalk/ or deb http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/debian/ potato/ good night to everybody in this timeozne :-) -- --- | Radovan Garabik http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__ garabik @ fmph.uniba.sk | --- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
