Re: static user IDs
On Tue, Sep 21, 1999 at 09:40:03PM -0400, Branden Robinson wrote: > > Who will agree with me that > > qmail[dsrqlp] should be forbidden > > Their existance in /etc/passsd rape me thru my eyes > > 6 statics for pacage is a bad idea but > > if this package isnt even free they should be > > thown out without mercy > > I nominate this guy for Debian's Most Promising Newcomer Award. :) I'll second that too => -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Debian GNU/Linux developer GnuPG: 2048g/3F9C2A43 - 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 PGP 2.6: 2048R/50BDA0ED - E8 D6 84 81 E3 A8 BB 77 8E E2 29 96 C9 44 5F BE -- Given some of the recent threads, the interactive discussions might need to be conducted on canvas, in the presence of a referee, while wearing padded gloves. ;-) -- Phil Hands pgpZCuFQ2AtwE.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: switching from PGP to GNUPG -- HOWTO?
On Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 11:44:08AM +0200, Samuel Tardieu wrote: > Joseph> Unfortunately gpg-rsa is broken. It installs a sh wrapper > Joseph> (yes, sh) that breaks gpg entirely. > > What do you mean a sh wrapper? [..] There WAS one.. I'm glad to see that it appears to have been thankfully destroyed and I don't have to injure someone. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Debian GNU/Linux developer GnuPG: 2048g/3F9C2A43 - 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 PGP 2.6: 2048R/50BDA0ED - E8 D6 84 81 E3 A8 BB 77 8E E2 29 96 C9 44 5F BE -- * Overfiend ponders doing an NMU of asclock, in which he simply changes the extended description to "If you bend over and put your head between your legs, you can read the time off your assclock." Overfiend: go to bed. pgpZX68d2Bjiw.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: I need a job.
On Thu, Sep 23, 1999 at 03:00:52PM -0700, Karl M. Hegbloom wrote: > > I need an entry level systems admin or programmer assistant job to > pay for night school so I can get a degree. I am willing to > relocate for the right job. Man, join the club! Being a student is expensive. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Debian GNU/Linux developer GnuPG: 2048g/3F9C2A43 - 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 PGP 2.6: 2048R/50BDA0ED - E8 D6 84 81 E3 A8 BB 77 8E E2 29 96 C9 44 5F BE -- How many months are we going to be behind them [Redhat] with a glibc release?" -- Jim Pick, 8 months before Debian 2.0 is finally released pgpsQpzgwC6wp.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Conference! - around the world with Debian
On Sun, Sep 26, 1999 at 07:16:08PM -0400, Branden Robinson wrote: > > Really? I don't consider the 1.5kW limit for US amateurs > > excessively limiting :-) Down here in Australia we are only allowed 400W. > > I said private, not licensed or otherwise fooled with. The limit for > completely laissez faire use appears to be about 10mW. That is six orders of > magnitude less than the figure you quote. Supposedly they give you 100mW unless something has changed recently. Still that would get you at most a city block---and not in any city I've ever been in. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Debian GNU/Linux developer GnuPG: 2048g/3F9C2A43 - 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 PGP 2.6: 2048R/50BDA0ED - E8 D6 84 81 E3 A8 BB 77 8E E2 29 96 C9 44 5F BE -- lilo: well then, you are probably a responsible thinker. Welcome to a very small club. Overfiend: welcome me when you join :) pgpLPbcMzGgsp.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: mtools
On Tue, Sep 28, 1999 at 01:31:23PM +0200, David Weinehall wrote: > How comes mtools depend on xlib6g? I don't use X, and thus I consider it > very stupid to have both xlib6g & xfree86-common installed, but I have to > if I want mtools installed... > > Rationale? If something supports X it should be compiled with X. This means exactly two packages (xlib6g and xfree86-common) are also required, but they're reasonably smallish and anything which supports X is going to require them anyway, not just mtools. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Debian GNU/Linux developer GnuPG: 2048g/3F9C2A43 - 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 PGP 2.6: 2048R/50BDA0ED - E8 D6 84 81 E3 A8 BB 77 8E E2 29 96 C9 44 5F BE -- my client has been owned severely this guy got root, ran packet sniffers, installed .rhosts and backdoors, put a whole new dir in called /lib/" ", which has a full suite of smurfing and killing tools the only mistake was not deleting the logfiles question is how was root hacked, and that i couldnt tell u it is, of course, not a debian box * netgod notes the debian box is the only one left untouched by the hacker -- wonder why pgpd9JG2m7Fip.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: mtools
On Tue, Sep 28, 1999 at 06:24:05PM +0200, Michael Meskes wrote: > > If something supports X it should be compiled with X. This means exactly > > two packages (xlib6g and xfree86-common) are also required, but they're > > I beg to disagree. If the binary in question is not essantial for the > package there should not be a Depends: but only a Suggest: or Recommends: > > And I think this certainly is the case with mtools. After all the only > binary linked against xlib6g is a daemon that usually is not started at all. That's fine, disagree all you want and get the policy changed.. => Suggestion is that you propose packages which CAN have X support or not not by default and another package be created which creates an alternative for the binary with one higher priority I suppose a diversion would work but why? -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Debian GNU/Linux developer GnuPG: 2048g/3F9C2A43 - 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 PGP 2.6: 2048R/50BDA0ED - E8 D6 84 81 E3 A8 BB 77 8E E2 29 96 C9 44 5F BE -- "They are both businesses - if you have given them enough money, I'm sure they'll do whatever the hell you ask:->" -- David Welton pgpyxQE0frqxx.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: pine in other distributions?
On Tue, Sep 28, 1999 at 06:04:21PM -0400, Johnie Ingram wrote: > David> Redistribution of binary versions is further constrained by > David> license agreements for incorporated libraries from third > David> parties, e.g. LDAP, GSSAPI. > > Hm, what happened to this text: > > Although the above trademark and copyright restrictions do not convey > the right to redistribute derivative works, the University of > Washington encourages unrestricted distribution of patch files which > can be applied to the University of Washington Pine distribution. > > Did something change? Have they seen the Light? They have made it so at this point you can distribute pine freely if you mark derived versions as such on CDs. Note they SPECIFICALLY say that you can do it on CDs. They never say you can do it elsewhere such as ftp, http, magnetic tape, zip disks, et al. This is clearly a stupid oversight on their part. It could be fixed if someone had the time to approach them. (I no longer do.) -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Debian GNU/Linux developer GnuPG: 2048g/3F9C2A43 - 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 PGP 2.6: 2048R/50BDA0ED - E8 D6 84 81 E3 A8 BB 77 8E E2 29 96 C9 44 5F BE -- NEW YORK (CNN) -- Internet users who spend even a few hours a week online at home experience higher levels of depression and loneliness than if they had used the computer network less frequently, The New York Times reported Sunday. The result ... surprised both researchers and sponsors, which included Intel Corp., Hewlett Packard, AT&T Research and Apple Computer. pgp5031KKbDmV.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Little FAQ for users and maintainers
On Fri, Oct 01, 1999 at 09:18:41AM -0400, Fabien Ninoles wrote: > Conflicts: foo (<< new-version) And don't forget Replaces: foo (<< new-version), that's what it's there for---files moving from one package to another! -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Debian GNU/Linux developer GnuPG: 2048g/3F9C2A43 - 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 PGP 2.6: 2048R/50BDA0ED - E8 D6 84 81 E3 A8 BB 77 8E E2 29 96 C9 44 5F BE -- * joeyh cvs commits his home directory. Aa eeek joeyh: That is simply evil. Period. pgpRl4cI5PbNL.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: SSH never free
On Sun, Oct 03, 1999 at 08:54:48AM +1000, Craig Sanders wrote: > PS: the RSA patent expires in 2001 (or is it 2002?), anyway. 20 September 2000. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Debian GNU/Linux developer GnuPG: 2048g/3F9C2A43 - 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 PGP 2.6: 2048R/50BDA0ED - E8 D6 84 81 E3 A8 BB 77 8E E2 29 96 C9 44 5F BE -- * Simunye is so happy she has her mothers gene's you better give them back before she misses them! pgpzW2HSCz1gM.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: doom source GPL'd
On Sun, Oct 03, 1999 at 12:41:51PM -0700, Joey Hess wrote: > It looks like the doom source is now under the GPL. > (http://www.doomworld.com/). This clears up the previous licencing problems > that were keeping it out of debian. It will still be fit only for contrib > for now, since it needs non-free WAD files. > > Who's going to mackage it? Joe Drew has lxdoom and I have agreed to sponsor his packages as soon as I'm caught up with school again. I (will) have dosdoom as soon as Andrew Apted gets the dosdoom team off their tails to release the new version! =p Nobody has offered yet to take xdoom, but I suppose we don't NEED linuxdoom really except for comparison's sake, so it's not exactly a big deal. Because the IWAD is non-free, before DOOM can go into main I have to get a WAD editor packaged. I'm looking at yadex now, which is based on DEU. There was some discussion of an effort to build a completely free WAD for people who just want to play it and not play with it. I think Joe Drew or I will probably package the shareware WAD too for people wanting it, but that'd have to go into non-free. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Debian GNU/Linux developer GnuPG: 2048g/3F9C2A43 - 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 PGP 2.6: 2048R/50BDA0ED - E8 D6 84 81 E3 A8 BB 77 8E E2 29 96 C9 44 5F BE -- you people are all insane. knight: sure, that's why we work on Debian. Knghtbrd: get in touch with your inner nutcase. pgpAVCxYQXJSN.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: doom source GPL'd
On Sun, Oct 03, 1999 at 01:33:29PM -0700, Joey Hess wrote: > > Joe Drew has lxdoom and I have agreed to sponsor his packages as soon as > > I'm caught up with school again. > > Ok, he might want to look at my old lxdoom package, which has several > patches in it. (ftp://kitenet.net/pub/code/debian/) > > What about the music server? I'm hoping to convince the lxdoom and dosdoom people to throw it and the sound server away. They suck and are evil. Would be better to write sound support directly these days (and is now actually reasonable to do. I even have soundfonts that make Timidity Not Suck---I'm going to investigate packaging them later if I can contact their creators for info regarding licenses.. Yeah, we'll package the evil music server in the meantime. => -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Debian GNU/Linux developer GnuPG: 2048g/3F9C2A43 - 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 PGP 2.6: 2048R/50BDA0ED - E8 D6 84 81 E3 A8 BB 77 8E E2 29 96 C9 44 5F BE -- ... Where was Stac Electronics when Microsoft invented Doublespace? Where were Xerox and Apple when Microsoft invented the GUI? Where was Apple's QuickTime when Microsoft invented Video for Windows? Where was Spyglass Inc.'s Mosaic when Microsoft invented Internet Explorer? Where was Sun when Microsoft invented Java? pgp39UbgTWPup.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: doom source GPL'd
On Sun, Oct 03, 1999 at 01:48:35PM -0700, Joey Hess wrote: > > Yeah, we'll package the evil music server in the meantime. => > > I did a *lot* of hacking on the music server, making doom communicate with > it via a pipe and other things and got it working really well. > > It is evil though, it has to re-parse all the wads.. > > I seem to have ditched that when I stopped using dosdoom and went to lxdoom > though. I forget what the story was there. Well, Andrew Apted and I were talking about putting native sound code in lindosdoom (which exists, works, and isn't going to be released until they're ready to release their next version which means even I haven't seen it yet---closed projects suck!) just because ... well, the servers are evil as I said. => We have good ideas on how to do it and the GPLing of the doom source makes them all the more likely to happen. My hope eventually is that the doom ports can kinda consolidate a bit. Things like code theft in the inital open projects is making people wary of opening them again. =< The GPL on the doom source will hopefully help prevent that happening again but we'll see... You know, I think I need to fix postfix's rewrite of my address, it doesn't seem to work quite right on this end I think. Does this message look right to you? If it is, it must be my mutt config isn't quite expecting the right things. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Debian GNU/Linux developer GnuPG: 2048g/3F9C2A43 - 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 PGP 2.6: 2048R/50BDA0ED - E8 D6 84 81 E3 A8 BB 77 8E E2 29 96 C9 44 5F BE -- But modifying dpkg is infeasible, and we've agreed to, among other things, keep the needs of our users at the forefront of our minds. And from a user's perspective, something that keeps the system tidy in the normal case, and works *now*, is much better than idealistic fantasies like a working dpkg. -- Manoj Srivastava pgpsYzo0IuxFE.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: doom source GPL'd
On Mon, Oct 04, 1999 at 12:57:35AM +0100, Edward Betts wrote: > > I would also love to see the following utilities packaged : [..] > > At this rate we are going to need a tasks-doom Recommends: doom-wad | doom-wad-editor Who needs a tasks-doom? =p > > I'm unsure whether Doom hacking utils can go in the main section at > > all because I seem to remember that id set some conditions on them. > > They should have a clear licence in the .tar.gz files surely? If somebody > writes a wad editor from scratch then ID can have no affect on the licencing > surely? There WERE some limits but they were on the order of "if you release the tool before we release the software, chances are good we're not going to be happy" IIRC... -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Debian GNU/Linux developer GnuPG: 2048g/3F9C2A43 - 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 PGP 2.6: 2048R/50BDA0ED - E8 D6 84 81 E3 A8 BB 77 8E E2 29 96 C9 44 5F BE -- * Tv lives in X. * Knghtbrd lives in console * wichert lives in the netherlands * Espy is dead pgpHvymDdC1e7.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Need help for GPG
On Mon, Oct 04, 1999 at 03:50:35AM -0700, Philippe Troin wrote: > > I'm trying to use GPG for signing my debian packages... > I've successfully created my new GPG secret key, and when I list my > keys and signatures, I get: > > % gpg -v --list-sig [EMAIL PROTECTED] > gpg: Warning: using insecure memory! > pub 1024D/6EAF7F87 1999-10-04 Philippe Troin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > sig6EAF7F87 1999-10-04 Philippe Troin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > sub 2048g/BBEB26B2 1999-10-04 > sig6EAF7F87 1999-10-04 Philippe Troin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > pub 768R/3EE7EDCD 1996-08-26 Philippe Troin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > sig82B7D4BD 1998-11-01 Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > sig3EE7EDCD 1996-08-26 Philippe Troin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > gpg: can't handle public key algorithm 192 > > The first two keys are the new ones, the last the old (PGP) one. you have gpg-rsa or gpg-rsaref installed ? How about gpg-idea ? > After much struggle, I manage to sign the 1024 bits DSA key, but not > the 2048 bits El-Gamal key: > > % gpg -v --list-sig [EMAIL PROTECTED] > gpg: Warning: using insecure memory! > pub 1024D/6EAF7F87 1999-10-04 Philippe Troin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > sig6EAF7F87 1999-10-04 Philippe Troin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > sig3EE7EDCD 1999-10-04 Philippe Troin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > sub 2048g/BBEB26B2 1999-10-04 > sig6EAF7F87 1999-10-04 Philippe Troin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > pub 768R/3EE7EDCD 1996-08-26 Philippe Troin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > sig82B7D4BD 1998-11-01 Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > sig3EE7EDCD 1996-08-26 Philippe Troin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > gpg: can't handle public key algorithm 192 > > And why do I get this message about public key algorithm 192 ? > > Or am I ok and cannot sign the El-Gamal key ? You can sign the DSA main key, but not the individual subkeys. The subkeys are signed by your DSA key and have your name on them. It's normal. > And then I should then the new key with 'gpg -a --export' and send it > to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ? No -a needed, just --export. > And finally, anyone knows if I can integrate gpg with Gnus ? Yes, but how I don't know as I'm not an emacs person. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Debian GNU/Linux developer GnuPG: 2048g/3F9C2A43 - 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 PGP 2.6: 2048R/50BDA0ED - E8 D6 84 81 E3 A8 BB 77 8E E2 29 96 C9 44 5F BE -- Win 98 Psychic edition: We'll tell you where you're going tomorrow pgpsc2surJasV.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: PGP/GPG Keys
On Mon, Oct 04, 1999 at 07:45:23PM +0200, Rene Mayrhofer wrote: > Is it possible to use a key created by pgp5 for package signing ? The > key works for me when I use it with gpg, both the opposite is not true > (e.g. pgp5 is unable to verify a signature created with a gpg key). I am > no maintainer yet and so I want to start cleanly. What is the "right" > way if I want to use gpg and pgp5 and communicate with people using pgp5 > ? Can I create a gpg key usable by pgp5 or is it possible to use the > pgp5 key for administrative purposes ? > I really want to revoke my rsa key and use only one key for all > purposes. By default gpg will use OpenPGP sigs. This is probably your problem. Yes, you can import the pgp5 key into gpg and use it directly. There's also some documentation on how to get gpg to generate pgp5 compatible sigs in the manpage. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Debian GNU/Linux developer GnuPG: 2048g/3F9C2A43 - 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 PGP 2.6: 2048R/50BDA0ED - E8 D6 84 81 E3 A8 BB 77 8E E2 29 96 C9 44 5F BE -- Basically, I want people to know that when they use binary-only modules, it's THEIR problem. I want people to know that in their bones, and I want it shouted out from the rooftops. I want people to wake up in a cold sweat every once in a while if they use binary-only modules. -- Linus Torvalds pgpmEs2CTTVin.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: PGP/GPG Keys
On Tue, Oct 05, 1999 at 12:39:50PM +0200, Rene Mayrhofer wrote: > > > Is it possible to use a key created by pgp5 for package signing ? The > > > key works for me when I use it with gpg, both the opposite is not true > > > (e.g. pgp5 is unable to verify a signature created with a gpg key). I am > > > no maintainer yet and so I want to start cleanly. What is the "right" > > > way if I want to use gpg and pgp5 and communicate with people using pgp5 > > > ? Can I create a gpg key usable by pgp5 or is it possible to use the > > > pgp5 key for administrative purposes ? > > > I really want to revoke my rsa key and use only one key for all > > > purposes. > > > > By default gpg will use OpenPGP sigs. This is probably your problem. > > Yes, you can import the pgp5 key into gpg and use it directly. There's > > also some documentation on how to get gpg to generate pgp5 compatible > > sigs in the manpage. > So it is ok to use a pgp5 created key (gpg works with it) to sign > packages ? I would like to use a pgp5 key because even if pgp5 can read > gpg-key signatures, I think it is impossible to use a gpg key with pgp5. > This is something I want to do because I have to work under Windows > sometimes (therefore forced to use pgp5). PGP5 and GnuPG share a common key format (DSA/ElGammal) but they're stored differently in the keyrings. Example: gpg --export 0xSomeKeyID | pgpk -a pgpk -x 0xSomeKeyID | gpg --import -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Debian GNU/Linux developer GnuPG: 2048g/3F9C2A43 - 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 PGP 2.6: 2048R/50BDA0ED - E8 D6 84 81 E3 A8 BB 77 8E E2 29 96 C9 44 5F BE -- "Actually, the only distribution of Linux I've ever used that passed the rootshell test out of the box (hit rootshell at the time the dist is released and see if you can break the OS with scripts from there) is Debian." -- seen on the Linux security-audit mailing list pgpj8o3Amtgon.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: doom source GPL'd
On Tue, Oct 05, 1999 at 09:21:26AM +, Andre Majorel wrote: > - should their "contract" be enforced on the tools ? > - if so, would that prevent them from going in the main section ? Note the collections of wads on CD for $15 or so... I have one such CD. The point is that you couldn't take the doom program, write your own IWAD, and sell it as "Heretic"--oh wait, they did do that din't they? *g* I don't think we have anything to fear from putting wad making tools in main. The GPL'd source tree is suitable for main if free WAD editors and WADs are ma\de available with it. THe doom shareware wad can go into non-free. A wrapper package can tell the dooms where to find registered wads. Other wads can be handled the same way (and with the same script...) AND, we can make our own TC wad that's completely free (which is the point...) -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Debian GNU/Linux developer GnuPG: 2048g/3F9C2A43 - 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 PGP 2.6: 2048R/50BDA0ED - E8 D6 84 81 E3 A8 BB 77 8E E2 29 96 C9 44 5F BE -- Don't come crying to me about your "30 minute compiles"!! I have to build X uphill both ways! In the snow! With bare feet! And we didn't have compilers! We had to translate the C code to mnemonics OURSELVES! And I was 18 before we even had assemblers! pgp6zy7fnfXqg.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Uninstallable Packages
On Tue, Oct 05, 1999 at 10:13:51PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: > Packages with unknown dependencies: > > clanlib0-display-fbdev-dev > clanlib0-display-ggi-dev > clanlib0-display-glx > clanlib0-display-glx-dev > clanlib0-display-svgalib-dev > clanlib0-display-x11-dev > Depends: libgl1 ; which doesn't exist This exists in CVS. libGL.so.1 is what is used by the latest versions of GLX and Mesa. I think the problem was coming up with a sane way to make alternatives work for the purpose since libgl1 is almost certainly a virtual package provided by Mesa, GLX, and probably commercial offerings as well. Compound this with Mesa and GLX merging and you've got something close to a nightmare. It's a release critical bug that these packages depend on something that isn't yet available as a package however. The packages should be removed if the problem is not resolved by the time we're ready to release. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Debian GNU/Linux developer GnuPG: 2048g/3F9C2A43 - 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 PGP 2.6: 2048R/50BDA0ED - E8 D6 84 81 E3 A8 BB 77 8E E2 29 96 C9 44 5F BE -- Indifference will certainly be the downfall of mankind, but who cares? pgp7npmGvsl0a.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Intent to give away or REMOVE: tkstep
On Tue, Oct 05, 1999 at 09:39:14PM +0200, Federico Di Gregorio wrote: > I state my complete lack of interest for tkstep, in both its > 4.2 and 8.0 incarnations. 4.2 is now obsolete (as tk 4.2 is) and 8.0 > is not kept updated by its upstream author. I use very few tk programs > myself, so i'd like to find someone to give these packages to. IMHO > both packages can go out of debian and I will ask the ftp maintainer > to do that if nobody steps forward in a couple of week to take care of > them. I know very little TCL/TK, but I would be annoyed if tkstep8.0 were to disappear as I find TK to be frustrating to the point of agonizing without tkstep (It's a little better with, tollerable at least..) ...not a fan of TK. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Debian GNU/Linux developer GnuPG: 2048g/3F9C2A43 - 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 PGP 2.6: 2048R/50BDA0ED - E8 D6 84 81 E3 A8 BB 77 8E E2 29 96 C9 44 5F BE -- i figured 17G oughta be enough. pgpr4SFfHHm3J.pgp Description: PGP signature
Potato and a half?
"Put it in!" "Leave it out!" "Put it in!" "Leave it out!" All right already! Good gods people, get lives---or at least go code or something. The fact of the matter is that there is never going to be a "right" time to release. There's always one more very important feature new software will add. Maybe not all of them make as much press as a release of XFree86 that has been completely redesigned over the previous generation or a new kernel series, but most of them are pretty damned important to somebody. Fact is, if woody isn't ready when some of this heavy hitting software is considered to be stable a few people who want it or otherwise have some interest in it (ie, possibly getting paid to do it) should take the time to build an update to potato with a 2.4 kernel, a new X, and possibly the latest apache release. This was done for slink thanks to the hard work of a few people over the course of a couple of weeks. Among those people on the "slink+.5" project were joeyh and shaleh who were asked to do it by their employer anyway, so it didn't really take any time away from their work on unstable. And what happened to their work? They offered it to us as a real update to slink to hold over until potato was ready. And what happened? It was rejected because "potato is almost ready" and because VA was responsible for the update whether it was done by Debian developers or not. Those were EXACTLY the reasons given - check the archives. Blind paranoia of corporate influence and fear that it would detract from potato. Well wake up people! Potato STILL ain't ready. It has 183 release critical bugs according to dpkg on #debian right this moment. This is a full SIX MONTHS after these people spent TWO WEEKS working on it. When I got this new machine (It's a PIII-450 with a suitibly large hard drive) I couldn't even INSTALL slink on it. I had to bootstrap the system from a bzdisk and a zip disk I installed a chroot potato base on to with another machine. There are people still in that sort of a boat today. Many of them are new to Linux, but enough aren't to tell you that while they really wanted to install Debian they really didn't want to jump through hoops to do it. Where was the great and wonderful slink update with a kernel and set of disk tools that could use my hard drive without doing bad things? Where was the X that worked with my video card? I looked for it, but I couldn't find it. It was a shame to see that work go largely to waste. Of course VA was happy with it, and that's great for them. But where was it when _I_ needed it? Not available because of a few objections, most of which IMO were baseless paranoia. How quickly people seem to forget these things. YES it's too late for XFree4 in potato. YES it's too late for 2.4.x kernels YES it's too late for a major new Apache NO that doesn't mean that potato should be out there for a year or so (given our track record) and become stale and largely useless. It was possible to fix slink then. It will be possible to fix potato later. Now stop arguing about whether or not to put new software into it and focus your efforts into getting the damned thing ready for release! -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds. -- Linus Torvalds
Re: Danger Will Robinson! Danger!
On Sun, Mar 12, 2000 at 05:20:21PM +0100, Stefan Ott wrote: > i still don't see why compiling a kernel on your own is a problem. i > have never used a precompiled kernel, and i never had problems. Install floppy kernel has to be able to work with your system. Beyond that, yeah build your own. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 * bma is a yank * Knghtbrd is a Knghtbrd * dhd is also a yank * Espy is evil * Knghtbrd believes Espy
Re: Danger Will Robinson! Danger!
On Sun, Mar 12, 2000 at 06:18:25PM -0800, Joey Hess wrote: > I'd like to propose that we make a committment to getting an update to > potato out within a month of the release of the 2.4 kernel or the release > of potato, whichever comes last. (I did a similar thing for slink in a 3 > week time-frame, and so I think this is a reasonable time-frame.) > > This update would NOT be blessed as stable, it would be a semi-stable > release with: > > - 2.4 kernel and support utilities > - X 4.0 drivers (but probably just X servers, to minimize changes; Branden > has huge reorganizations in mind for X) > > This would be a full Debian release, with a version number, boot floppies, > CD images, etc, etc. After it ages for a few months, we may choose to call > it stable but at first it would be called something that denotes it is > semi-stable. > > Please speak up if you like this idea. XFree 4 may not be doable by then reasonably. I support the idea though (as you no doubt have seen..) I'd suggest taking an extra week or two to really run it through the wringer though. Maybe it wouldn't do to call it stable, but it would really be good to update Debian in this way not infrequently. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 * dpkg hands stu a huge glass of vbeer * Joey takes the beer from stu, you're too young ;) * Cylord takes the beer from Joey, you're too drunk. * Cylord gives the beer to muggles.
Re: Danger, Branden Robinson! Danger!
On Sun, Mar 12, 2000 at 10:18:15PM -0700, Jason Gunthorpe wrote: > Besides, if we are to have woody have 6000 packages and send dpkg sobbing > into a corner [not to mention those people with less than 64M of ram], we > better think big! Only 6000? We must be getting lazy. 6000 is way too easy. Better try for 8000. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 * Knghtbrd is FAR too tempted to .sig this entire discussion...
Re: 14 days till bug horizon
On Mon, Mar 13, 2000 at 01:43:07PM +0100, Tomasz Wegrzanowski wrote: > > Package: mp3blaster (debian/main). > > Maintainer: Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > 59564 mp3blaster: fails to build, C++ error > > This is *really*, *really* trivial to fix > > Try : > tar tzf *.orig.tar.gz|head -1 > zcat *.diff.gz|head -2 > > And you will see why. ( tip : typo ) That is most certainly _NOT_ a typo. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 I had a friend stick me in her closet during highschool beacuse I wouldn't believe that her boyfriend knew about foreplay... I shoulda brought popcorn. :)
Re: 14 days till bug horizon
On Mon, Mar 13, 2000 at 04:13:40PM +0100, Tomasz Wegrzanowski wrote: > > > And you will see why. ( tip : typo ) > > > > That is most certainly _NOT_ a typo. > > Oki. > Here is more detailed report [.. crap snipped ..] You know Tomasz, it would help if you had the slightest clue what you wrote about BEFORE you started claiming to have the solution. Had you bothered to read the developer documentation you might have tried this: $ tar tzf mp3blaster_2-0b16.orig.tar.gz|head -1 mp3blaster-2.0b16/Makefile.in $ zcat mp3blaster_2-0b16-1.diff.gz|head -2 --- mp3blaster-2-0b16.orig/mpegsound/mpeglayer3.cc +++ mp3blaster-2-0b16/mpegsound/mpeglayer3.cc $ dpkg-source -x mp3blaster_2-0b16-1.dsc dpkg-source: extracting mp3blaster in mp3blaster-2-0b16 And it would have WORKED too, like it did for me just now. The problem is an arch-specific issue which does not affect i386 build or operation of the package. I have not had time to try and figure out what's wrong with it (now). This package has had no end of issues, usually regarding endianness independence which it claims to support (but I claim it supports very badly in most versions..) Sometime this week I will see if a new upstream exists and maybe if I'm lucky it fixes the problem. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 The X Window System: The standard UNIX graphical environment. With Linux, this is usually XFree86 (http://www.xfree86.org). You may call it X, XFree, the X Window System, XF86, or a host of other things. Call it 'XWindows' and someone will smack you and you will have deserved it.
Re: A "progressive" distribution
On Wed, Mar 15, 2000 at 03:17:09PM -0500, Ed Szynaka wrote: > Well say that there are 3 releases a year. That gives say 3 months for > devel. With a freeze scheduled to start at the beginning of the 4th > month and a stable release at the end of a month of freeze. I think > that even the most drastic changes can be worked out in the course of 4 > months. Now if something _can't_ be completed in that time frame just > postpone it until the next freeze. Since the next stable would only be > 4 months off the penalty for not making it into the stable isn't that > severe. I hate to be overly harsh, but you I haven't seen around much before this thread. As such, I'm going to assume that you haven't been around very long as far as following this list. Anybody who has been around awhile can tell you that people just like you (and even a large segment of the existing developer base) says every single release that we need to freeze sooner and release more often---however pools will only complicate things and make it harder. Well uh, here's where the above "you don't know what you're talking about yet because you're still new" angle comes in... We've tried it. We tried it with hamm, slink, and now with potato. Freeze as soon as someone thinks it can be released in a few weeks DOES NOT mean it can be done in a few weeks. Freeze early doesn't mean a sooner release, it just means a more stale release faster. The pool solution is more complex. It requires that we constantly maintain two trees, plus a pool of unstable packages that just never really get released as a whole. A package does not become a release candidate until it's ready to become so. Sure that means more overhead on a package to determine whether or not it is going to be released. It also makes it harder for Debian to ship with every single piece of free software that doesn't guaranteed pull the system down to its knees. It also means per developerer there is more time required to maintain ones packages properly (though I would argue that unless your name is Joey Hess the extra time required is not terribly significant.) What does this gain us though? For all these disadvantages, what's it really worth? A distribution that is maintained in the near-release state that we CAN simply release any time we feel it is necessary. It's also easier to update than the current system which involves releasing security revisions to stable. Not only this but it is easier to make upgrades because they would happen more often and be more upgrade than the current complete new OS scenerio. We're running out of options because freeze early doesn't work. The other two options are the dist and a half (which was done for slink by Joey Hess and Shaleh.) As it turns out, the pools system allows us to have more of a real upgrade. The dist and a half system allows us to have a more focused upgrade. Which is more beneficial to our users? Both can be done in a matter of a couple of weeks. Both are actual versioned releases. The pools have more overhead, but they provide a real upgrade rather than just the dist with a few big notables like kernel, X, and Apache. IMO, dist and a half is mostly fluff as far as press releases go. potato and a half would be a potato dist with a 2.4 kernel, possibly some new X stuff if it can be done and a new apache. It's still out of date potato otherwise. I want a REAL upgrade! > With only the 3 months of changes I don't think that a freeze will take > as long as it has with a 6 or even 12 month devel cycle. As I said, you haven't been around much yet have you? -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 First off - Quake is simply incredible. It lets you repeatedly kill your boss in the office without being arrested. :) -- Signal 11, in a slashdot comment
Re: Idea: Debian Developer Information Center
On Sat, Mar 25, 2000 at 09:51:50PM +0100, Raphael Hertzog wrote: > Hey people ! I posted this mail in order to have some input ... it would > be great if some of you gave their opinion about this proposition I posted > a while ago : [..] I'd have to bookmark myself. ;> -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 java, hon, sometimes I really want to smack you. Valkyrja - he'd enjoy it too much Valkyrja: yah, go ahead and do it... beat java into cappuccino! :-)
Re: RBL report..
On Sun, Mar 26, 2000 at 10:49:09AM +0200, Michael Neuffer wrote: > > ORBS deserves special mention because of their insane hit count, I don't > > know what that is about but ORBS would block 10% of the mails we get. I > > think it is without question that the majority of those blocks are > > legitimate mails. ORBS is also almost completely inclusive of the RSS and > > RBL. > > ORBS has a slightly different (broader and maybe better) goal then the > the others. It actively scans the net for open mail relays, warns > the operators of these machines multiple times with exact descriptions > of what they are doing, trying to accomplish (ie closing open mail relays) > which problems have been found, how to fix them (plus necessary pointers > to other sites) and how to get of the list. Only then the machine is added > to the list. ORBS has a tendancy to not take the time to make sure their messages go to the right places and then they are very slow to take sites off the list after problems are fixed. ie, to them making sure spam never happens is more important than what damage they cause in hte process. I rate them in with the DUL. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 you know, Linux needs a platform game starring Tux kinda Super Marioish, but with Tux and things like little cyber bugs and borgs and that sort of thing ... And you have to jump past billgatus and hit the key to drop him into the lava and then you see some guy that looks like a RMS or someone say "Thank you for rescuing me Tux, but Linus Torvalds is in another castle!"
Re: RBL report..
On Sun, Mar 26, 2000 at 11:15:42AM +0200, Nils Jeppe wrote: > > ORBS has a tendancy to not take the time to make sure their messages go to > > the right places and then they are very slow to take sites off the list > > after problems are fixed. > > afaik, ORBS sends to [EMAIL PROTECTED] What other right place could there > be? The domain's technical contact. > And taking people off the list is automatic. Fix it, enter the IP in their > form, it gets re-cehcekd and taken off the list. Works like a charm. Uh, I can find at least one site real quickly whose admin will tell you that he got a message from ORBS, fixed the problem, was blacklisted anyway, and it took him a month to get off that list even though the problem was fixed days before they blacklisted him. > > ie, to them making sure spam never happens is more important than what > > damage they cause in hte process. I rate them in with the DUL. > > If people configured their servers correctly, they'd never get on the > list. ;-) Also, ORBS allows for I think 3-5 days warning in advance, which > is sufficient to fix a server. Given every report I've heard to the contrary, I'm not sure I believe that. I've also been told that there are cases where their tests produce false positives. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 it's too bad most old unices turned out y2k compliant because it means people will STILL BE RUNNING THEM in 30 years =p it would have been so much nicer if y2k effectively killed off hpux, aix, sunos, etc ;> Knghtbrd: since when are PH-UX, aches, and solartus "old"?
Re: RBL report..
On Sun, Mar 26, 2000 at 04:00:54PM +0200, Nils Jeppe wrote: > > Given every report I've heard to the contrary, I'm not sure I believe > > that. I've also been told that there are cases where their tests produce > > false positives. > > I don't see how you can create a false positive on a relay test. Either > the message gets through, and you're an open relay, or it doesn't, and > you're fine. It's quite simple, really. Or it appears to have been accepted and goes nowhere. I've seen a setup or two like this specifically for the purposes of tracking who was trying to use the relay... ie, one rabid anti-spam group blacklisted another because their methods happened to conflict. It's rather amusing to say the least. Unfortunately, it demonstrates that ORBS is a little more indiscriminant than perhaps is good. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 It's a trackball for one so it's not a rodent it's a turd with a ball sticking out which you fondle constantly
Re: RBL report..
On Sun, Mar 26, 2000 at 04:34:37PM +0200, Nils Jeppe wrote: > > Unfortunately, it demonstrates that ORBS is a little more indiscriminant > > than perhaps is good. > > Yes; because innocent people do get caught in the middle of it. But it's > the only method to fight open relays. I've said it before and I'll say it > again, there is no reason for relays to be open. Just because half the > admins out there are too incompetent to take care of their mail servers > doesn't justify why the rest of the net has to wade through floods of spam > ;-) The point exactly.. If RBL or RSS blacklists someone, it's a known spammer or a site which has refused to act against spammers abusing their systems. In these instances, the blacklisting happens as a last resort. DUL and ORBS both seem to think they need to punish anyone whose config or origin does not meet their standards (or as someone else noted in the case of ORBS, if they are unable to test you..) There are those who believe such far-reaching pre-emptive strikes against spammers are warranted. I'm not one of them. I believe DUL and ORBS are only making the problems worse by resorting to "fighting dirty" without regard for the innocent users. These people are typified by Craig Sanders who has said on many occasions now in several forums that people who don't like or are hurt by such blacklists should simply get a better ISP---as if a lot of people even had a choice! Can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs right? That sort of uncaring attitude shows exactly how unethical that view (and IMO the people who hold it) are. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 !netgod:*! time flies when youre using linux !doogie:*! yeah, infinite loops in 5 seconds. !Teknix:*! has anyone re-tested that with 2.2.x ? !netgod:*! yeah, 4 seconds now
Re: 0 days till bug horizon
On Mon, Mar 27, 2000 at 05:38:54PM +0200, Richard Braakman wrote: > Package: epic4 (debian/main). > Maintainer: Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 58508 Epic pre2.503 has bugs which 2.505 has not The bugs mentioned in this report do not affect everybody. 505 fixed a few bugs sure, but it created a new one which WOULD affect everybody. 506 fixed that, but had a problem with glibc builds which could not be fixed this weekend. hop said he'd fix it today. Provided that it doesn't break anything else (it shouldn't, this it is a short/simple patch I'm told) I'll upload it tonight. Need to be sure it works first. I've downgraded the bug's priority a notch. It probably shouldn't be RC anyway. (there's a potential DoS condition that is fixed in 505 that nobody has come up with an exploit for yet which needs to be fixed in potato in case someone can..) -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 That's the funniest thing I've ever heard and I will _not_ condone it. -- DyerMaker, 17 March 2000 MegaPhone radio show
Re: RBL report..
On Mon, Mar 27, 2000 at 11:09:42PM -0500, Daniel Martin wrote: > ORBS BLOCKS MORE THAN OPEN RELAYS. > Sorry to shout, but I've been bitten by ORBS before. > It blocks open relays *or machines which relay for open relays*. Yeah... "Blacklist this person we've blacklisted or we'll blacklist you." Wonderful tactic. And apparently it's quite effective at getting people to pay attention to their cause of stopping open relays. Crusaders in this war on spam know exactly what they're doing. They must purge the holy land of its heretics at all costs. If a few villages happen to get pillaged and burned... Well, these things happen and the villagers should get better villages. The people who run ORBS are terrorists. And perhaps even worse are the people who actually use ORBS. DUL is immoral sure, but it pales next to the terrorism routinely practiced by ORBS. > This means that since my campus's smarthost trusts any machine inside > jhu.edu to send mail out (and why shouldn't it?), an open realy > anywhere on campus can cause all mail going through the smarthost to > be blocked. Don't you know that it is your job to make sure that your campus is locked down? If you can't get some student's relay closed you have an obligation to see that some form of disciplinary action is taken against them or that they are blacklisted by your servers. Those spammers must all die and so must anybody who helps them whether they know they're helping or not! If you can't do it you are scum and everyone at your campus is scum and you don't DESERVE the right to send email to anyone who doesn't like spam! > To repeat: ORBS does not block only mail that came through open > relays, it blocks mail that came through servers that have in the past > served open relays. It allows a single open relay on a mail network > to cause the entire mail network to be blocked. It is to my mind an > inordinately severe response to the problem. And if an open relay happens to send mail through one smarthost which sends through another which sends through another. It's all for a good cause. The holy land must be purged. Remember that. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 "slackware users don't matter. in my experience, slackware users are either clueless newbies who will have trouble even with tar, or they are rabid do-it-yourselfers who wouldn't install someone else's pre-compiled binary even if they were paid to do it."
Re: RBL report..
On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 09:17:46AM +0200, Alexander Koch wrote: > > Yes there is more spam, but I've been looking and I haven't seen that much > > (if any at all) would be blocked by DUL. > > I personally think the DUL is "most harmless" RBL and the "most > legitimate" (bad wording probably) for use. And if it only catches > on spam a week it is worth it, methinks. Yeah - too bad blacklists your average linux installation right? And even your average linux user who knows how to set up a proper smarthost more often than not knows better. (Let pacbell.net's shoody NT mail server route MY mail? NOT LIKELY!) DUL listed my own (STATIC!) IP until a week ago. I complained loudly to the people responsible and was told by the idiots at pacbell that of course the DSL IPs were listed in the DUL - they wanted you to use their servers since that's what they provide them for. Application of a cluebat was necessary, I'm told that none of the static IP DSL users are DUL listed anymore. So there's at least a margin of error. And don't you EVEN TRY to tell me that if I don't like my ISP that I should get another. There are an awful lot of people out there who simply CAN'T DO THAT. Expecting them to is even more of an example of just how wrong the DUL is from its beginning. RSS and RBL at least are measures taken to combat known spammer friendly sites. DUL discriminates on what kind of connection you supposedly have. ORBS is just rediculous. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 red dye causes cancer, haven't you heard? (; fucking everything causes cancer, haven't you heard? => no, that causes aids
Re: RBL report..
On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 12:06:19PM +0200, Josip Rodin wrote: > > Hell, Joseph, have you ever stopped to read one of your own posts to > > see what you really sound like? > > I agree, knghtbrd, you sound too fanatical(sp?). Calm down, and perhaps > people will pay more attention to what you're saying. I have read them. (I did write them after all.) ORBS and DUL _are_ that bad - or worse! DUL _is_ discrimination based on assumptions about a person's connection type and ORBS _is_ blacklist terrorism. I'm not the only person here who thinks so. Make Debian use all the blacklists you want. You'll find users and developers dropping like flies. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 There is no snooze button on a cat who wants breakfast.
Re: RBL report..
On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 06:56:47PM +1000, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
> > often than not knows better. (Let pacbell.net's shoody NT mail server
> > route MY mail? NOT LIKELY!)
>
> Have you ever had mail actually disappear through their server, or do
> you just distrust it because it's running on NT? Seriously?
I've read their status page. I check it about twice a day. Very long
periods of "you cannot send mail" and "sorry for anything that was lost"..
Would YOU trust such a server if those sorts of issues were common?
I won't.
> > So there's at least a margin of error. And don't you EVEN TRY to tell me
> > that if I don't like my ISP that I should get another. There are an awful
> > lot of people out there who simply CAN'T DO THAT. Expecting them to is
> > even more of an example of just how wrong the DUL is from its beginning.
>
> What is the exact reason why you cannot get another ISP Joseph?
> Have you been blacklisted by all the others in your area already?
First: YOUR SPAM IS NOT MY FUCKING PROBLEM.
Second: Broadband providers are not a commodity. And they're usually not
cheap.
Third: The difference in cost between my DSL service and any other
broadband service (even with lest bandwidth!) is almost exponentially more
expensive. You've not offered to pay the difference. (Nor do I suspect
that you could afford it..)
--
Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3
Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC
The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3
Thunder-: when you get { MessagesLikeThisFromYourHardDrive }
Thunder-: it either means { TheDriverIsScrewy }
or
{ YourDriveIsFlakingOut BackUpYourDataBeforeIt'sTooLate
PrayToGod }
Re: RBL report..
On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 01:16:11PM +, Alexander Koch wrote: > btw - if you really need to find a smarthost that is working > well I doubt you have to search for a long time. Mail is not > just mail and I can imagine many "specials" for those like you > that need a decent smarthost. It is just the right configuration > on a random MTA, all can do it. There are possibilities, after > all. I have NO INTENTION of using a smarthost. I have a static IP with a verifyable hostname. I WILL NOT route my mail. I flatly refuse to do so unless and until such time as you can provide me with an RFC number which deprecates running a mail server on a static IP address with an identifyable host name. I will not reply to the rest of the flamebait in the original message. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 <_Anarchy_> acf: maybe April 1 next year slashdot needs to run "Rob Malda accepts new job as head of Debian project" 8)
ATTN: pjw@edmc.net
If you wish to email me about any of my packages, do so from an address which does not reject my mail as coming from a "dialup" IP. My IP is STATIC and your ISP is run by morons who can't tell the difference, even though I am no longer listed on the DUL. I am attempting once and once only to reach you via the lists. I will not attempt to do so in the future. Mail me from an ISP with a clue in the future if you'd like a reply. Regarding your problem, epic4 pre2.507 (uploaded today) should fix it. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 Zoid: we're nuts, but we're productive nuts:) taniwha: Quote material :) * taniwha wonders what productive nuts taste like Endy: :) Endy: I already snipped it
Re: Pgcc in Deb
On Mon, Apr 03, 2000 at 01:40:51AM +0200, Romain Chantereau wrote: > > So the original question remains: is there a simple pgcc available > > somewhere? > > Yes ! is there a simple pgcc available somewhere? There may or may not be, however I highly recommend avoiding pgcc. There are exactly two braindead compilers that are guaranteed to screw up something in QuakeForge: vc++ and pgcc. We all know how screwed up the former is. The latter has (and has had for some time) several very obnoxious bugs which result in bad code on certain non-trivial applications. Those patches and improvements found in pgcc get added to egcs as soon as they are known not to do stupid things anyway so it's worthwhile simply to stick with egcs and use the optimizations it provides. In almost all cases you will not be seeing any noticable difference in execution speed. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 netgod: My calculator has more registers than the x86, and -thats- sad
Re: How many CDs in potato?
On Wed, Aug 16, 2000 at 10:25:28AM +0200, Santiago Vila wrote: > > > Why would a package be in contrib if it didn't depend on non-free? I > > > thought that that was the current definition of contrib: DFSG-free, but > > > requires something from outside of main (e.g., contrib or non-free). > > > > A dependency on non-us will also land a package in contrib. > > I think there was a proposal to change that, so that packages which depend > on packages in non-US/main remain in non-US/main. It was - no objections, but very little support either. This caused the proposal to be rejected. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 Be warned, I have a keyboard I can use to beat luser's heads in, and then continue to use... (=:] Mercury: Oh, an IBM. :)
Re: Embedded Debian (was: compaq iPaq)
I'm not certain that trying to cram OS config into a kernel config tool is the right idea, but I do agree that the concept is effective. What about a more generalized framework for this sort of thing to build a disk image for a highly customized embedded Debian system? Take a subdirectory and put a config file in it which contains several pertinent bits of information like the size of the disk the embedded system will use, partitions and partition tables (if any), etc.. The config file would point the partitions at directories which will hopefull be named by their labels or something useful (again I recommend against hardcoding this stuff because none of it matters on a small flash chip for example..) A dpkg which stores its database outside these partitions would be nice, as would something which does black magic similar to fakeroot and chroot by doing sneaky things with the filesystem (possibly internal to this modified dpkg?) The end result should be that "dpkg" is able to install and remove packages from this subdirectory tree and maintain everything seemingly intact. You're just able to move entire files and directories literally out of the directory/ies which will be used to make a disk image and still have them be there as far as dpkg is concerned (and in fact, they are, they're just in a different directory that won't be included when the image is built..) The obvious disadvantage of all of this is that it is black voodoo and someone has to write it. Writing it won't be easy. The advantage is that you have a very simple path to look at what exactly will and will not be on the image while still having access to all of the files that will not be on that image. You can add and remove files to either the tree that doesn't actually get installed but is virtually there for development or the tree that is actually going to get built as an image. Using a chroot-type program you can actually start up a shell in the filesystem as it would be mounted regardless of partition layouts so you can see the whole picture... May not be worth the development time and effort, but it SOUNDS like one hell of a cool hack to me (at least at 2am..) -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 Basically, I want people to know that when they use binary-only modules, it's THEIR problem. I want people to know that in their bones, and I want it shouted out from the rooftops. I want people to wake up in a cold sweat every once in a while if they use binary-only modules. -- Linus Torvalds
Re: Intel Assembly error
On Wed, Aug 16, 2000 at 10:27:45AM +0200, Paul Slootman wrote: > No, you have AH to access the high 16 bits of EAX, and AL for the low > 16 bits of EAX. Or was that the high 8 bits of AX etc... Here's the layout of the EAX register... | EAX | | | AX | | | AH || AL | I do not know if there is a way to access the rest of EAX when accessing AX, AL, etc. Not sure how endianness applies to EAX offhand (I've been up a whole 10 minutes) but given 0x12345678 in EAX, AX may contain 0x5678 which is where the confusion comes from. I'd have to write some asm to be sure about that and I haven't done any in more than six years - and then my assembler didn't have 386 instructions so I was limited to db 66h'ing my accesses of AX if I wished to access EAX so I didn't use 386 instructions except for memory copying and the like. > Apart from that, using assembler is evil (if there isn't a C language > alternative) because then your source will never run on anything > besides the processor the assembler code is written for. I think the problem is this is what gcc was doing to the C. I never became clear on that. Sometimes that C alternative is only useful for porting the asm to a new language because the C would run too slowly for acceptable results. (quake for example..) -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 dark: caldera? rcw - that's not a distribution, it's a curse Knghtbrd: it's a cursed distribution
Re: ITP: gopher, gopherd, gopherindex
On Thu, Aug 17, 2000 at 01:30:29PM -0500, John Goerzen wrote: > I intend to package up the gopher suite from UMN, together with my > patches to it. > > Note: they have informed me it will be GPL'd shortly. And so the madness begins... -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 need help: my first packet to my provider gets lost :-( sel: dont send the first one, start with #2
Re: Braille devices
/* I'm not on l-k at the moment, please Cc replies */ On Sat, Aug 19, 2000 at 09:48:03PM +0200, Simon Richter wrote: > I've seen the request for braille device support during installation here > on debian-devel for many times, and IMO the best approach would be to > support these devices at kernel level. The reason for this is that a > daemon approach would compromise system security, as some (luckily not too > many) braille devices have special interface cards which require hardware > access. Also, a daemon has to be started in order to be useful, so that > you cannot see anything if the boot fails. > > Comments? Agreed. I have been pleading with anyone I came across willing to listen for quite some time now to consider the idea of alternate console device in the kernel for quite some time. The same concept that applies to multihead also applies here except that the alt console would allow for some secondary I/O device to be used in addition to the primary one. This would allow for custom alternate output devices such as braile terminals or possibly speech synthesis drivers to be written as kernel drivers and essentially always working. It'd also allow such things as use of an input device similar to the DARCI hardware (but much less expensive) right in the kernel and as far as the console driver of the kernel is concerned, anything sent and processed by the driver came directly from the local keyboard. Much more flexible than the serial console driver is today. For those who don't know, devices like the DARCI boxes are insanely expensive - they cost more than twice the average machine of a person reading this message. What it does is simulate a keyboard. It's extremely flexible in its hardware implementation and extremely complex in its configuration. It can use all sorts of inputs from custom matrix keyboards to a few switches to a surplus morse code key - use your imagination a bit. It outputs a standard keyboard signal. In your choice of PC, Mac, and I think also Sun formats. It's purpose is adaptive input for people who cannot use a traditional keyboard. They may also have alternative ways to simulate a mouse in newer models. Most of these special purpose devices can be connected to parallel or serial ports with very little electronics no more complex than wiring up a playstation controller for your favorite game emulator. The possibilities for output have I think already begun to register. Besides the obvious things like braille displays and speech, there are a million different embedded applications for this. Wearables anyone? This is really the kind of thing that would not be very hard to do (I hope) but it seems like it is also the kind of thing that must be agreed upon because it will certainly affect a lot of things even if the effect on them is not major. Nonetheless, I feel it is something that should be done because it is important to make Linux as accessable as possible. It should also be done because it'd be cool and open the door for a lot of cool stuff. (Ye personal-stake-in-this disclaimer: I am myself legally blind, but do not read Braille or use a speech synthesizer. I have enough vision that the fact that my wterm has a font half an inch high on a 21" monitor I'm less than 10" away from is fairly comfortable reading. My vision is 20/310 and cannot be reasonably corrected at this time. So yes I want to see this done for other people with disabilities - but I'd never use such a kernel device for that reason. Not necessary. I might use such a thing to write a kernel driver for handling I/O for the wearable I've been planning to build at some point, however.) -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 Yeah, well that's why it's numbered 2.3.1... it's for those of us who miss NT-like uptimes
Re: Bug#69229: [PROPOSED 2000/08/16] Free pkgs depending on non-US should go into non-US/{main,contrib}
On Wed, Aug 16, 2000 at 08:04:00PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: > The principle: packages that are DFSG-free, depend on packages in > non-US/main, but are otherwise candidates for main should go into > non-US/main also. That way they're still a part of the official > distribution, but they don't come up as uninstallables for the poor > deprived US folks. > > Here's a sample wording change. It incorporates the accepted change > from #62946. It's not entirely clear where contrib packages that don't > include crypto, but Depend: on software that does (from non-US/*) would > go in the following, probably. [..] Seconded. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 you know, Linux needs a platform game starring Tux kinda Super Marioish, but with Tux and things like little cyber bugs and borgs and that sort of thing ... And you have to jump past billgatus and hit the key to drop him into the lava and then you see some guy that looks like a RMS or someone say "Thank you for rescuing me Tux, but Linus Torvalds is in another castle!"
Re: Non-US Incoming
On Sun, Aug 20, 2000 at 07:51:14PM +0400, Michael Sobolev wrote: > > Previously Michael Sobolev wrote: > > > Is it possible to access this for non-developers? > > > > No. > Hmm.. And what's the reason of that? Nobody has bothered to set it up yet, most lilely. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 anyone around? no, we're all irregular polygons
Re: Free Pine?
with all of his jedi-robed Tear Down the (Redmond-based) System rhetoric and promises of dollar signs to anyone in a suit who pays homage to a silly little penguin logo. Freedom is only really freedom if you make a conscious choice to be free. Take that away and people quickly relapse into familiar patterns of accepting what they are given. So while I respect your goals, I have a hard time respecting your position on this issue. If you had written a message in which you came right out and said what you thought, what they've said both then and now, and suggested we decide ourselves whether or not this was a battle we wanted to take up, I probably would have been far more impressed by your directness instead of annoyed with your careful words and I dare say FUD. This rant was paid for by the following: me myself I The rest of the world is of course entitled to their own opinions which they may (and most likely will) express on their own. Slippery when wet. This message is free, but probably isn't software unless you can find a compiler for it. Considering that I wrote it, you might have trouble finding even a good interpretter. The author disclaims everything and anything. Objects in mirror are closer than they appear. Caution, coffee is hot! By reading this sentance, you agree that it in fact is a sentance and also that it is funny. Hukt awn foniks wurks fer mea! Do not look into laser with remaining eye. Do not adjust your TV set. This paragraph makes no sense except that about five people who read it will be slightly amused. Deal with it. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Security of Debian SuX0r?
On Sat, Sep 02, 2000 at 10:07:04AM +1100, Herbert Xu wrote: > > want. Shall we make something like 700 default? It would break some > > things like "UserDir public_html" in Apache, etc. In my school server > > You could make it 711. 751 seems more reasonable IMO. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 "What is striking, however, is the general layout and integration of the system. Debian is a truly elegant Linux distribution; great care has been taken in the preparation of packages and their placement within the system. The sheer number of packages available is also impressive" -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Security of Debian SuX0r?
On Sat, Sep 02, 2000 at 03:06:16AM +0200, Peter Palfrader wrote: > > > 751 seems more reasonable IMO. > > > > This sounds also reasonable for me. And because of the x-bit UserDirs, > > etc. should work. Does anyone objects if I change this with the next > > upload of adduser? Consider that this is only the default behaviour, > > if you still want 755 home-directories you just have to change the > > value in /etc/adduser.conf. > > I'ld prefer keeping 755 as a default. As I haven't looked at the configurability of adduser, I may be barking up the wrong tree here.. Would it be possible to allow the sysadmin to add new users to a given group or set of groups on creation of the account? This way you could choose to have your ~ created as you.users 751 or you.you if you want to make the user decide explicitly to change it to group users or whatever. I see other uses for a users group as some web CGI scripts have files that need to be world writable and you can only maintain security that way if you make the files you.users 646 or 642. Obviously, no default is going to be acceptable to everyone, that's why it's a default that can be changed. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 is a surgical war where you go give the foreign troops nose jobs? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Help on Debian Project - Need Me?
On Sat, Sep 02, 2000 at 10:58:14PM -0400, Ben Collins wrote: > > Anyway, I'm wondering, is there any need for a website redesign or any icon > > needs? I have Adobe Photoshop and I am a expert at it. I use Macromedia > > Dreamweaver and I would LOVE to help this great project. I would love to be > > on a website redesign team or Icon Creation Team. Does anyone know where I > > can go to help on this or who I should contact? > > Well, IMO, anything that goes on the Debian website better be created by > free software. No offense, but if I start seeing "Made with Macromedia" or > "Designed with Photoshop" on the website, there will be hell to pay :) Agreed. > There are several criteria for the website, unspoken, but surely everyone > knows this: > > a) It needs to be browsable by text-only browsers without going through >some "click here for cheezy text only site". Agreed. CSS seems to make graphical pages a little easier to make text friendly. > b) Graphics need to be created in Gimp (is there any other free graphics >program around worth its salt?). Why? I think this is unnecessarily anal. Not that you would know if a graphic was done with gimp or photoshop anyway. > c) Geared towards informational and structural concerns rather than "eye >candy". > > When I go to the Debian webpage, I want answers and information, and I > think most people feel the same way. Yes, that is essential. Making information available is the single most important thing the website is there for. Nice web pages are good for Debian's image, but if the information isn't there the fluff isn't worth it. That doesn't mean what the pages look like isn't important, it's just less important than what's on them. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 I wouldn't make it through 24 hours before I'd be firing up the grill and slapping a few friends on the barbie. Why would you slap friends with barbies, thats kinda kinky -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Qt going GPL ...
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 04:55:51PM +0200, Jordi Mallach wrote: > > Who is going to ITP kde ? > > I guess RevKrusty may want to put his packages into Debian? He already uploaded kdelibs, I didn't see if it was installed. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 CVS/Entries had the line I needed to "alter" Knghtbrd: Was about to mention such.. Knghtbrd: Now, ready to commit? wish me luck Mercury: it's committed Mercury: and after all that, I should be too. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Qt going GPL ...
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 04:05:27PM -0500, David Starner wrote: > > He already uploaded kdelibs, I didn't see if it was installed. > > I was wondering what happened to it? It didn't appear in the > archives, it wasn't moved to REJECT or DONE, it just disappeared. > I was wondering if there was some long flame war on debian-private > that I was missing. No flamewar on -private (at the moment), and the archive people wouldn't just delete it. Most likely you're seeing mirroring delays. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 * Simunye is on a oc3->oc12 simmy: bite me. :) daemon: okay :) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Qt2.2 released under the GPL
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 08:08:33PM +0200, happ wrote: > enough said > > http://www.trolltech.com > > now we can move the ftp://kde.tdyc.com/pub/kde potato kde2 contrib > back home > > WE WON ! No, we didn't win. Neither did KDE. Troll Tech won this license war. It looks like the rest of us will benefit in the long run, but we didn't win. The majority of people involved with KDE still are convinced that they did nothing wrong in terms of law or ethics, people will still accuse them of a whole bunch of things they did and a bit they didn't, and everybody involved seems to hold negative opinions of someone because of how long this has gone on. There's nothing to celebrate here. Just a company making a move that is, they hope, in their best interests having the side effect of fixing a handful of license quibbles which have caused flamewars the likes of which I couldn't even place on a CDR in compressed format. All of that isn't going away overnight. So what we really have is a single step. A big and important one - but still a step. So do we prance around gloating over our "victory" or do we take the next step? -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 10) there is no 10, but it sounded like a nice number :) -- Wichert Akkerman -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: (Beware helix packages) Re: [CrackMonkey] The right to bare legs
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 04:06:49PM -0500, David Starner wrote: > > packages into unstable. Helix is too stable for unstable, and too unstable > > for stable. > > Not exactly true, as Helix Gnome is usually more cutting-edge than > unstable Gnome. In my experience, it's had a bug report to fix turnaround time of a under a day if you can give a complete and reproducable problem. That's pretty good for any problem, even trivial ones can't be expected to get fixed in a matter of a few hours like I've seen with Helix Gnome. Software has bugs, it's a fact of life. New software is more likely to have unknown bugs that affect more people. What makes the Helix packages so nice is the turnaround time for fixes. I don't know how they do it, but they do. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 I hate users you sound like a sysadmin already! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: (Beware helix packages) Re: [CrackMonkey] The right to bare legs
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 11:54:05PM -0700, Joey Hess wrote: > > Software has bugs, it's a fact of life. New software is more likely to > > have unknown bugs that affect more people. What makes the Helix packages > > so nice is the turnaround time for fixes. I don't know how they do it, > > but they do. > > Maybe they have a dinstall delay of less than 24 hours :-P Maybe so. I'd still like to see someone take up maintenance of jinstall and package it personally. I'd do it myself if I could grok the perl. Perl so far is a language that I just don't understand. It defies the conventional structured thinking I apply to the way I write my code. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 Oh no, not again. -- Manoj Srivastava -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ITP or rather upload... KDE
On Tue, Sep 05, 2000 at 02:10:09AM -0700, Ivan E. Moore II wrote: > Ok...I leave for an extended weekend and Troll get's freaky on me! :) > > Since I've been basically doing this unofficially for almost 2 years now > working with Stephan Kulow who was the maintainer/developer and who has > since passed it on to me due to time and the fact he's not running woody > and all...and since QT (which I also maintain currently) 2.2 will be > GPL'd solving all those lovely issues of the past, I'm announcing my > intent to do away with kde.tdyc.com and merge in all the KDE 2.x > packages into main. These include the following: I suggest you DON'T do away with kde.tdyc.com ... You have the infrastructure in place already, use it as a repository for latest KDE and people can just list it after the debian lines in their sources.list if they want more bleeding edge stuff durring freezes and for releases. Just a suggestion. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 *snipsnip* oh dear, is that the sound of fortune-database editing? uh oh Yes => -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ITP lame
On Tue, Sep 05, 2000 at 10:10:49AM -0500, David Starner wrote: > The problem is not "patents", it's that this particular patent also > applies in Germany, meaning we can't distribute from non-us either. Pandora is not in .de, it's in .nl and is non-us. The issue is .de (and the rest of the world) mirrors. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 ok guys .. so whens the next commit :PP when they come to get me -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: QT-GPL
On Tue, Sep 05, 2000 at 05:29:14AM -0700, Kenneth Scharf wrote: > Just read on Linuxtoday.com that trolltech will > license QT under the GPL. Guess the 'river was > lowered' instead of 'raising the bridge' (old Jerry > Lewis movie title) so KDE can now go in main for > Woody, right? Yes. Anyone checked the temperature in Hell lately? -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 my US geograpy is lousy...lol so's mine and I live here -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: QT-GPL
On Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 09:07:23AM -0700, Christoph Lameter wrote: > > Anyone checked the temperature in Hell lately? > Do you intend to go there? By the sounds of it, it's time to plan a ski trip ... -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 "Actually, the only distribution of Linux I've ever used that passed the rootshell test out of the box (hit rootshell at the time the dist is released and see if you can break the OS with scripts from there) is Debian." -- seen on the Linux security-audit mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Problems with mail system? [Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown]
On Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 11:37:55PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > yes. get an ISP that can do reverse DNS. YEESHHH! I'll happily bounce > their mail until then. Are you willing to pay the difference between the cost of that user's current ISP and one which meets your standard? Until then, you have absolutely no right to tell someone what ISP they should use. For some, the option of getting another ISP is unaffordable or even impossible in some regions of the world. This is sometimes true even in the US, especially if you require more than a modem connection. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 Damn, every time I spawn, qf-client-x11 locks hard Don't die? good incentive. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Problems with mail system? [Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown]
On Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 11:57:05PM -0400, Adam McKenna wrote: > > Perhaps it's from being too geeky myself, but Branden's explanation > > (the recipient of the error message is not welcome on *THEIR* Internet > > under the reasoning that they're ... refusing connections from machines > > with characteristics like [his] (...simply no reverse DNS record)) > > sounds like a fairly direct and accurate translation of "admisitrative > > prohibition (failed to find host name from IP address)". > > Yes, that's what he said, but what he meant was that people shouldn't have > the right to decide who they accept mail from, and under what conditions. I > guess it's been too long since we had that particular flamewar on > debian-devel. They have every right. They have no right to demand that those from whom they reject legitimate mail find another way to deliver mail to them, however. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 heh, I never took a coding class or a graphics class or a software design class and it shows :P -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Problems with mail system? [Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown]
On Thu, Sep 07, 2000 at 01:41:30PM +0100, Mark Brown wrote: > > Perhaps it's from being too geeky myself, but Branden's explanation > > (the recipient of the error message is not welcome on *THEIR* Internet > > under the reasoning that they're ... refusing connections from machines > > It was the bit about "dialup trash" - inability to get reverse DNS > working is a different issue. My reverse DNS does not match my forward DNS. I have @home. Only broadband service available here. I think the quality @home's NT-based servicess is world-renown at this point. So let's not even start there, because I'm going to be very upset when people start suggesting I need a couple thousand a month for a decent T1 connection in order to be considered a good net citizen. You can't even get ISDN here. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 2fort5 sucks enough to have its own gravity ... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Problems with mail system? [Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown]
On Thu, Sep 07, 2000 at 08:44:06PM +, Miquel van Smoorenburg wrote: > >> yes. get an ISP that can do reverse DNS. YEESHHH! I'll happily bounce > >> their mail until then. > > > >Are you willing to pay the difference between the cost of that user's > >current ISP and one which meets your standard? Until then, you have > >absolutely no right to tell someone what ISP they should use. > >For some, the option of getting another ISP is unaffordable or even > >impossible in some regions of the world. This is sometimes true even in > >the US, especially if you require more than a modem connection. > > A server on the 'net without matching forward/reverse DNS is broken. > Period. Complete bullshit. Show me the RFC that says you may only have one DNS name attached to an IP at a time. You can't do it because it doesn't exist. Several Debian developers have debian.net subdomains which do not reverse because they have no control over their DNS even though their IP addresses are static. My static IP address with @home (yes, I did convince them to give me one) is cc659474-a.indnpls1.in.home.com as far as they are concerned. I have no desire to use that hostname on my email, so I have this: tank.debian.net A 24.22.127.210 This is perfectly legal practice according to every RFC I have ever read. It is also quite legitimate for my system to declare that it is tank.debian.net which does indeed resolve to a valid IP address. The fact people such as yourself would add the additional requirement that 24.22.127.210 resolve back to tank.debian.net has nothing to do with what the RFC's state is correct. If I file a bug against a package and my report is bounced as probably spam, I will NMU the package immediately without discussion or further attempts at a warning. As a Debian developer, you have an obligation to maintain your packages. If you wish to act stupid regarding your mail policies that's fine - until it interferes with maintaining packages. At that point, it affects all of us. > What if someones ISP drops 50% of all messages. Should the Debian > mailinglist servers simply send all messages 4 times so that the > chance is bigger of the recipient actually getting the message? > Ofcourse not, because the ISP should fix the mailserver instead > since it is broken. > > The DNS issue is *exactly* the same. The fact that it happens to work > some or even most of the time doesn't make it less broken. Once again, complete bullshit. There is absolutely nothing anywhere which states an IP address may only have one name or that if it has more than one, you must use only the primary DNS for which you have reverse set up. Requiring that the name an IP reverses to also being able to resolve to the IP is a different matter if you're willing to jump through the lookup hoops to make sure the reverse name is actually the machine in question. How this would combat spam, I have no idea, but if you found such a system it would indeed be very broken. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 SGI_Multitexture is bad voodoo now ARB is good voodoo no, voodoo rush is bad voodoo :) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Problems with mail system? [Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown]
On Thu, Sep 07, 2000 at 05:37:25PM -0400, Adam McKenna wrote: > > My reverse DNS does not match my forward DNS. I have @home. Only > > They don't need to "match". Your IP just needs to resolve to something, and > that something needs to resolve back to your IP. This has no effect on what > From: addresses and envelope senders you can use. Miquel van Smoorenburg and others seem to think that they do need to match. if you connect to my IP, you will see that neither 24.22.127.210 nor cc659474-a.indnpls1.in.home.com appear in the greeting. > [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ host 24.22.127.210 > Name: cc659474-a.indnpls1.in.home.com > Address: 24.22.127.210 > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ host cc659474-a.indnpls1.in.home.com > cc659474-a.indnpls1.in.home.com A 24.22.127.210 > > There is no reason your mail shouldn't work properly with these settings > (apart from being listed on the DUL). If you'd like, I'll add you a line in > my access control to allow you to relay through my server. I'm sure there > are many other people on this list who would offer the same. I do not appear to be listed with the DUL, so far as I know. A couple of hosts seem to reject 24.* or something, but I'm not overly worried about them. I _AM_ worried about people who want to make it worse by adding additional arbitrary requirements before they accept mail related to Debian. It's somewhat amusing that the blacklist people seem to have blacklisted eachother, though. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 "Pacific Bell Customer Service, this is [..], how can I provide you with excellent customer service today?" "HAHAHAHAHA!! That's good, I like it.." "Um, thanks, they make us say that." -- knghtbrd and a pacbell rep, name removed to protect her job -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian and KDE: Appology
On Thu, Sep 07, 2000 at 01:19:06PM -0300, Ben Woodhead wrote: > First I would like to give my appologies, I was not aware of the incomming > directory and I have been told that kde will be included. I would also like > to say that I personally do not use kde nor am a developer for them, my > consern was with the conflicts between linux. Competition is a good thing, > unless its taken to far and as of yet I have not seen anybody that was > talking about the lisence tell the community that the problem has been > resolved and we are glad to hear it. This was never about competition or trying to rag on KDE because of Gnome. It was always about licensing. The licensing issues are resolved, so KDE is being uploaded. > ps I did not mean it in a flaming sort of way, although re-reading the > letter gave me that feeling, please make a statement to the community, you > are a very important part of it, and as of yet debian has not made a > comment, FSF made a condesending comment (I don't know if it was afficial or > not but its been on the top of every news site). Richard's comment was apparently on the order of "It's about time", which apparently managed to peeve the KDE people who felt they needed to flame him publicly over it.. *sigh* 3 years from now we will still be seeing this argument. People such as yourself who don't know the whole story before they start writing, and those who deliberately wish to troll for flames. Fortunately, my part of it is done - KDE is being uploaded to Debian now to join Qt in main. Unfortunately, not by any action of KDE. Troll Tech made the decision. KDE and Debian both benefit. I can speak for a sizable portion of Debian when I say regardless of how the resolution came about, we're happy with it (and in fact, most of us are absolutely delighted that Qt is now available under the GPL, even if it means that KDE essentially did nothing to clean up their own mess..) The argument is over, despite some lingering distrust. It's time for KDE to get back to coding and Debian to get back to packaging. Show's over, nothing to see here, move along. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 -include ../../debian/el33t.h sendmail build...strange header name :) hahaha * netgod laffs BenC: can u tell i used to maintain sendmail? :P heh :) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Problems with mail system? [Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown]
On Thu, Sep 07, 2000 at 06:20:46PM -0400, Adam McKenna wrote: > So? Anyone who asked for that would be unreasonable. Besides, nobody's mail > server is telneting to your port 25 to see what your SMTP greeting says -- > that would be insane. It's a simple double-lookup. The PTR record is > queried, and checked to see if it matches that particular A record. Not all > MTA's even do this. > > The only other check that some MTA's perform is checking that the domain in > the Mail From: header (the envelope sender) is a real domain. > > To sum up, your particular problem is not with DNS, it's with some fool > arbitrarily blocking either you in particular, or some larger network which > includes you. I don't have such a problem. As you have agreed, any such requirement would be unreasonable, so why are we arguing? -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 === This letter is the Honor System Virus If you are running a Macintosh, OS/2, Unix, or Linux computer, please randomly delete several files from your hard disk drive and forward this message to everyone you know. == -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: End of the line for Epic?
On Thu, Sep 07, 2000 at 08:52:51PM +0200, David N. Welton wrote: > I'm wondering if anyone still uses this package anymore. It has been > superceded by epic4 for hrmmm it must be several years. > > Is it time for it to go? It's not like it's broken or it has any > hideous bugs, but it's not going anyplace, either. You might be right with all of the talk of epic4 1.0 ... -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 Being overloaded is the sign of a true Debian maintainer. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian and KDE: Appology
On Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 11:01:37AM +0200, Paul Seelig wrote: > > Richard's comment was apparently on the order of "It's about time", which > > apparently managed to peeve the KDE people who felt they needed to flame > > him publicly over it.. *sigh* > > > It was not the harmless "about time" part those people got angry > about. They IMHO righfully complained about RMS' "forgiving" talk > which is more like religious speech from a church or something. > If the catholic pope would utter such words it could be silently > ignored, though it would be appropriate speech in his ideological > context. I've simply learned to accept that Richard has an ego the size of a moderately sized country and expects the whole community to bow at his feet. (rebel fleet award to han solo anyone? (you'd have to have been at the Aug 1999 LWCE for the $25k award that Debian received this year.. The FSF got the award last year and he was actually resentful that these people were handing him a fat chunk of cash to help him do the things he does because he felt it wasn't enough recognition/credit!)) > But RMS speaking like *this* is rather unappropriate and IMHO quite > insulting. I wonder if the author of ncftp who was hurting the GPL by > using readline and who subsequently put ncftp under GPL as consequence > of complaints was asked to beg for being forgiven as well? I guess > not, it was just retroactively considered legal, right? Is this then > just treatment of the KDE developers? Definitely not! Oh I am perfectly comfortable in saying that I believe the KDE developers have a lot to answer for over the past three years. They have been both intentionally disruptive and destructive to the community because of their own arrogance. Richard's own unjustifyable arrogance adds just one more whining windbag's ego to the pile of the bruised. So yes, he's guilty of flamebait. And the Linux "media" is guilty of helping him spread it. Big deal, just because the person trolling is a public figure doesn't change the fact that saying a group of coders should beg forgiveness for their transgressions against the church of GNU is still trolling. > RMS should IMHO publically apologize with the KDE people for this > condescending part of his otherwise correct article. He should be > wise enough to be careful about the context in which other people > might consider certain statements simply derisive. He won't. C'mon, this is Richard Stallman. In his own eyes, everything he says and does is righteous and pure. IMO, this makes him as dangerous as Eric Raymond. (But then, my opinions of RMS as a "leader" aren't terribly popular around here... I do freely admit my own ego is too large to make me any better, so I am essentially throwing stones outside my glass house.) -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 abuse me. I'm so lame I sent a bug report to debian-devel-changes -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian and KDE: Appology
On Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 11:56:06AM +0200, Paul Seelig wrote: > Without being a KDE/Qt user myself, this is what makes me understand > the anger of the KDE developers. The problem with that is that the KDE developers have chosen to assume that because Richard has been an ass to them (and quite clearly, he has been), that anyone who agrees with him deserves the same response they'd give to him. This is why I eventually decided the whole KDE mess was a losing battle. As long as the KDE developers were unwilling to entertain the concept of a problem, there could be no resolution short of the impossible (which has now happened..) -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 how bout a policy policing policy with a policy for changing the police policing policy -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: KDE2 - nice demolition job ...
On Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 03:40:26PM +0100, Jules Bean wrote: > > > Please read: http://nm.debian.org > > > > Oh well, at least nobody can say, "Well, nobody ever said anything ... ". > > I tried. > > Well, what, exactly? Would you mind actually telling us what you > mean? I thought Raul's email was to the point. The NM process is > documented, there is a mailing list for its discussion, new > maintainers are on their way in at an increasing rate: > > What exactly is your problem? He is: 1. a bit dense 2. trolling 3. both First he specifically posts flamebait about KDE in Debian knowing full well the reaction it would get in a pathetic plea for personal attention and to try and rekindle the whole KDE flamewar. Then after all of his original issues (which had to be inferred since no real amount of sense could be found in the several screenloads of drivel he posted..) And then after he's deomonstrated that he wishes to be both disruptive and destructive to the project he wants NM to be fixed in some unspecified way so he can become a Debian developer. This thread (and his inability to configure his email software) cause me to question his qualifications as a Debian developer. He certainly seems like he would not make much of a positive influence in or reflection on the project as a whole. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 JHM: I'm not putting quake in the kernel source but we should put quake in the boot floppies to one-up Caldera's tetris game.. ;> -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Mozilla PSM (https support)
On Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 12:42:37PM -0400, Franklin Belew wrote: > Questions: > - Can the PSM go in Main? > - If Not in main, how do I build this so that mozilla(noncrypto parts) > goes in main, while mozilla-psm goes to non-us/main with minimum amount > of manual work? (when answering this, keep the autobuilders in mind) > - Is there anything I've forgotten? Note that Netscape 4.75 is in main. You might consider building two copies of mozilla, but frankly I'm beginning to tire of this US/non-US crap with our packages. Wasn't someone going to have a look at the regulations or something? IIRC the policies were up for review in four months, but it's been longer than that by quite some measure. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 my US geograpy is lousy...lol so's mine and I live here -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#79933: [window minimization] animation not pointing to correct location
On Tue, Dec 19, 2000 at 04:06:25PM +0100, Christian Marillat wrote: > e> Please re-open this bug. The animation should be indicative of the > e> location of tasklist applet. I've seen users confused by this. > > No I don't reopen this bug. If a user is confused by this, he's an idiot. Christian, please don't waste time on this "problem". Eray's opinion of the severity of this problem is, as often, quite lucid. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 * HomeySan waits for the papa john's pizza to show up mm. papa john's. hopefully they send the cute delivery driver they dont have that here. why? you gonna eat the driver instead?
Re: x-session-manager alternative
On Tue, Dec 19, 2000 at 07:24:12PM +0100, Bas Zoetekouw wrote: > What is the problem with registering gnome-session and kde-session as > x-window-manager? Wouldn't this new x-session-manager thing break the > way users can choose there window-manager from the display manager's > log in screen? I'll give you a hint.. gnome-session tries to start x-window-manager. What if that's gnome-session? What if that's startkde? In either case, that could be really messy really fast. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 As a computer, I find your faith in technology amusing.
Re: finishing up the /usr/share/doc transition
On Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 01:04:26PM -0800, Joey Hess wrote: > I'm looking forward to a day with a lot less postinst and postrm scripts > myself, so I want to make sure we don't miss the traget of full > conversion by woody's release. Hear hear. > sound/mikmod There appears to be a bug with libmikmod and ALSA at the moment.. When I track it down I'll fix this too. > libs/libmikmod1 This should be removed from the archive as no longer used. I believe the bug is already filed. > graphics/qiv I'm willing to NMU this if necessary. I think the package has likely been abandoned upstream but am not sure. I don't want to take the package for that reason (I think eog could become a better replacement for it in time.) -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 I still think you guys are nuts merging Q and QW. :P Of course we're nuts. Even John said so. => Zoid: we're nuts, but we're productive nuts:)
Re: Close list
On Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 04:02:34PM -0800, Carl B. Constantine wrote: > > > > Now maybe if we were using the RBL, DUL, and RSS lists... :-) > > > > I think that would be a good compromise position. Any chance we can > implement that at least? It would go a long way to accomplish both goals: > disallow spammers > allow posts from outside those subscribed > > Comments? I have a comment: NO WAY IN HELL. The day that we start rejecting DUL posts is the day that several people leave the project, me included. How many ISPs these days route mail worth a damn? The RBL is a reasonable list and is a last resort anyway. RSS is a concern, but I would accept it if the majority of people felt it was necessary. The DUL is just going to hurt Debian. I'm still on at least one mailing list that I _CANNOT_ even unsub from because mail is filtered before it ever gets to the requester. Needless to say, I have considered taking drastic action regarding this stupidity. For the record, I'm talking about the GGI Project's ggi-develop list, which I used to follow. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 There is no snooze button on a cat who wants breakfast.
Re: What do you wish for in an package manager?
On Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 09:52:47AM +0100, Sami Dalouche wrote: > If I had to change something in the Debian package manager, I would > like it to use bzip2 instead of gzip, but this doesn't need a > omplete reimplementation. The problem isn't technical, but it's been > debated many times. I don't exactly know the problem w/ this compression > except it saves time ;) > Anyway, if you think something isn't perfect, you can always help the > development of Dpkg, or apt. I think if dpkg used some sort of hashed database index it would be a hell of a lot nicer to people's CPUs and memory. Whether or not that requires a re-implemenetation of dpkg or not isn't for me to say since I haven't looked at dpkg's code in 3 years. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 * o-o always like debmake because he knew exactly what it would do... o-o: you would ;-)
Re: What do you wish for in an package manager?
On Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 07:54:00PM -0900, Ethan Benson wrote:
> personally the plain text database is one of dpkg's greatest assets.
> its a royal pain to repair a binary database when it gets fscked. and
> yes i have already been saved from a total reinstall through the
> ability to fix dpkg's broken database with a text editor.
>
> if your talking about a different database then nevermind.
Berkeley DB to text and back is pretty easy.
Also, I was speaking of binary indices which are even easier to regenerate
if corrupted.
--
Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Free software developer
these stupid head hunters want resumes in ms word format
can you write shit in tex and convert it to word?
\converttoword{shit}
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Re: dueling banjos
On Tue, Dec 26, 2000 at 04:31:48PM -0500, Buddha Buck wrote: > I just did a Google search on "duelling banjos debian" and came up with > nothing -- just two hits to our archives from the "dualling banjos" thread > that happened one of the previous times we got this strange request. I don't know where in Debian to find dueling banjos, but I know where to find dueling licenses. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Free software developer dhd: R you part of the secret debian overstructure? no. there is no secret debian overstructure. although, now that somebody brought it up, let's start one :-) CosmicRay - why not, sounds like a fun way to spend the afternoon =D pgpwRsbgq2iON.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: lynx 2.8.4dev.16 --with-ssl
On Tue, Jan 02, 2001 at 02:44:16PM +, Colin Watson wrote: > >Since ssl support (configure --with-ssl) is now integrated in the main > >lynx source, will lynx-ssl be obsolete? And will lynx has to go to > >non-US? Or do we still need separate version? > > Since lynx is GPLed, surely we shouldn't be linking it to OpenSSL at > all? :( (Unless there's an exception I'm not aware of ...) AFAIK, there isn't. =( -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Free software developer come on it's a pico clone it's *meant* to be annoying pgpAb0KsrKeln.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: ITP: Bakery
On Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 02:06:22AM +0100, Mariusz Przygodzki wrote: > > > Bakery is a C++ Framework for creating GNOME applications using Gnome-- > > > (gnomemm) and Gtk-- (gtkmm). > > > > What's the difference with Glade? > > Eeee. What's the difference with Glade-- rather? > > As you know Glade-- is backend for Glade for creating C++ programm source > skeletenon. Glade is a RAD tool to enable quick development of user > interface. Glade-- (or rather an application created with the aid of it) > functionality depends on libraries Gtk-- and Gnome-- entirely. Never should you generate source code with Glade. The result is ugly and not very good anyway. There is libglade for this purpose. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Free software developer Exactly how much of a PITA is this in C? It's written in C++. Hence my question. I could do something like it in C. Anyone who saw the results would think I was either a genius or out of my fucking mind. They'd be right on either count. pgpXaGLejXT0s.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Recovering dpkg database
On Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 12:07:37AM +0200, Klaus Reimer wrote: > My harddisk containing /var has crashed (and I am a fool without a backup). I > was able to recover /var/lib/dpkg/status but all other files in /var/lib/dpkg > except some files from /var/lib/dpkg/info are gone. Is there any way to > reconstruct all other files and directories (alternatives, info, diversions) > without reinstalling all packages? The fact that you were able to recover status is an amazing feat in and of itself. It greatly simplifies matters as you at least know what is installed. First thing you must do in order to fix dpkg is this: # apt-get update # apt-cache dumpavail > avail # dpkg --update-avail avail You'll also need to recreate the dpkg directory structure, the contents file on the archive will help you do that. From then on (sorry, I know of no other way) you will simply have to get a list of installed packages (dpkg --get-selections, you can use cut or sed and grep or something to cut the list down to just the ones you want) and feed the result to apt-get install.. If you do it cleverly, you can do it on one cmdline. Expect that you'll have to rerun it a few times. The popularity of apt has caused many maintainers to become lax in their dependencies since apt will usually figure it out if you rerun it a few times. The whole point of apt's resolver was to make that no longer necessary, but that's another rant for another week. You literally must reinstall the packages to rebuild the database or apt will not know what files are installed (rebuildable with the contents file and a good script or two) or the pre and post scripts, debconf information, etc.. Just in case you need it said: BACKUP BACKUP BACKUP! I have ... uh, 1082 packages installed here personally and together they total enough space that rebuilding the database by reinstalling the packages would be a very painful experience. In fact, it happened once (thank you ext2 and DRI, I much appreciated that..) and as the system was recently installed I had no backup yet. It took me all night on a DSL line, so I pity anyone with just a modem. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Free software developer The less you know about computers the more you want Microsoft! -- Microsoft ad campaign, circa 1996 (Proof that Microsoft's advertising _isn't_ dishonest!) pgpu6GEOZQrME.pgp Description: PGP signature
Retirement, etc
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 With work, school, and taking part to some extent in my local community, I have had virtually no free time to devote to Debian for many months now. Having just received my approval of my application to transfer to the University of Oregon, I know that I will need to focus even more on my education, and therefore it's a safe bet that nobody would hear from me for at least another couple of years. I've only got a couple of packages at this point. xfonts-jmk requires virtually no maintenance except when X11 font policies change or that distant time when the UTF truetype jmk font gets released. (I'll believe it when I see it..) yadex I packaged years ago for someone else who was going through NM and gave up on it. I've never really been able to use the program myself, so it has been essentially non-maintained for years. Either package is up to the first bidder. I'm sure you'll all figure it out - I'm busy with a few quick summer credits before I transfer. Take care everyone! =) - -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> This sentence no verb. my computer was once one of the building blocks of a great pyramid -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: 1024D/20F62261F1857A3E79FC44F98FF7D7A3DCF9DAB3 iEYEARECAAYFAj75Zp0ACgkQj/fXo9z52rNJuACcDra68XQ9ixkQibUsl/gBxIaz ED0An1R8/eidYzzICts3x8lYQZ2S2cG8 =0USh -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: g++ 3.2 on woody ?
On Wed, Aug 14, 2002 at 06:57:24AM +0200, Harald Dunkel wrote: > Please note that the C++ ABI has been changed with gcc 3.2. The > "old" libraries compiled with g++ 3.0.x or 3.1.x can't be used > with 3.2 anymore. Again? *sigh* Apparently their C++ ABI stability goes about as far as my vision. (For those not in the know, that's "not very"..) -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Available in cherry and grape `You have been unsubscribed from the high energy personal protection devices mailing list' I dont remember getting into the mailing list pgpWYodFOPTtp.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Bug#156503: microsoft changed its policy, msttcorefonts broken
On Thu, Aug 15, 2002 at 09:19:21AM +0200, Jesus Climent wrote: > > Are there any 'opensource' font authors out > > there doing anthing interesting? > > Some GPL TT fonts: > > http://www.ntrnet.net/~jmknoble/fonts/README > > It also points to an application he used to create them. These are not truetype fonts and do not have any anti-aliasing. They do not even work with Pango using the version of Xft provided in Debian. Keith Packard's website has Xft2 somewhere I think. Pango won't use a PCF font without it. What Jim's got is already packaged in Debian as xfonts-jmk. If Jim has TTF fonts I don't know about, I'd absolutely love to package them. The same goes for a utf-8 version of his existing fonts, which his website's been promising for a couple years now. ;) -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I swallowed your goldfish it has been said that redhat is the thing Marc Ewing wears on his head. pgpSOYnc8HIvD.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: GCC 3.2 transition
On Fri, Aug 16, 2002 at 02:53:22PM -0500, Steve Langasek wrote: > > The majority of such packages links to libstdc++ only, so there may be > > no need for action at all. > > Do we have non-free C++ packages that we have to worry about? My > comments were more directed at unpackaged software that users may be > running on their Debian systems. In those cases, providing a way to get > their binaries working again /after/ we break them is only a little bit > better than forcing them to recompile. Well there's the proprietary JDK, but it already uses a -compat package library. *shrug* -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Don't feed the sigs xhost +localhost should only be done by people who would paint their hostname and root password on an interstate overpass. pgpVkJEjPhr4Q.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: GCC 3.2 transition
On Fri, Aug 16, 2002 at 02:54:03PM -0700, Stephen Zander wrote: > >>>>> "Joseph" == Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Joseph> Well there's the proprietary JDK, but it already uses a > Joseph> -compat package library. > > Eh? Are you refering to java plugins for mozilla et al, or any actual > JDK? Sun's JDK. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> You expected a coherent reply? the increase in tension worldwide (as evidenced by crime and whatnot) over that time period looks a lot like Linux growth since 1993 ``Linux linked to worldwide crime epidemic!!'' pgp0JuuUuDprS.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: GCC 3.2 transition
On Fri, Aug 16, 2002 at 11:49:03PM -0700, Stephen Zander wrote: > >>>>> "Joseph" == Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Joseph> Sun's JDK. > > I know for a fact there's no use of dynamic C++ libraries in any JDK > prior to 1.4.1 and I just check the latest 1.4.1 beta & find no > mention of libstdc++ in any of the executables. If there's C++ code > in there, it's statically linked. Nowhere eh? [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/local/j2sdk1.4.0_01/jre/plugin/i386/ns610$ ldd libjavaplugin_oji.so libXt.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6 (0x40044000) libX11.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6 (0x4008e000) libdl.so.2 => /lib/libdl.so.2 (0x40168000) libstdc++-libc6.1-1.so.2 => /usr/lib/libstdc++-libc6.1-1.so.2 (0x4016b000) libm.so.6 => /lib/libm.so.6 (0x401ad000) libc.so.6 => /lib/libc.so.6 (0x401cf000) libSM.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libSM.so.6 (0x402eb000) libICE.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libICE.so.6 (0x402f3000) /lib/ld-linux.so.2 => /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x8000) That's one hell of a figment of my imagination. Although, it does seem the plugin is the only thing which uses libstdc++. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hey, that's MY freak show! "Yes, your honour, I have RSA encryption code tattood on my penis. Shall I show the jury?" pgpxRbUwdJ5c6.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: GCC 3.2 transition
On Sat, Aug 17, 2002 at 06:11:10PM +1000, Jamie Wilkinson wrote: > >That's one hell of a figment of my imagination. Although, it does seem > >the plugin is the only thing which uses libstdc++. > > ldd will traverse the library dependencies tree for all libraries, so it's > possible that the libstdc++ requirement is caused by any of the other > libraries in that list. > > What does objdump -p libjavaplugin_oji.so tell you? Dynamic Section: NEEDED libXt.so.6 NEEDED libX11.so.6 NEEDED libdl.so.2 NEEDED libstdc++-libc6.1-1.so.2 : I know it doesn't work because I didn't have the thing when I first tried to set up the JDK. I'll be needing it for school, so I'm watching the discussion of a free JDK environment setup package thingy kinda closely. I'm not a fan of things which might have bugs I can't identify and report. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sanity is counterproductive my Amiga 3000 has way more registers than x86 the local 7/11 has more registers than x86 pgpo9Bp7MyOqO.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: GCC 3.2 transition
On Sat, Aug 17, 2002 at 12:05:59PM -0700, Stephen Zander wrote: > Joseph> That's one hell of a figment of my imagination. Although, > Joseph> it does seem the plugin is the only thing which uses > Joseph> libstdc++. > > And I asked originally were you refering to plugin code or a JDK. > plugin != JDK. I downloaded JDK, I got a plugin. JDK includes plugin, therefore JDK has dependencies on old libstdc++. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>What're you looking at? I'm starting to think the gene pool could use a little chlorine. pgpilrA8WhUcP.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Convenient way to enable IDE DMA
On Mon, Aug 26, 2002 at 12:45:54PM -0700, Nate Eldredge wrote: > > The other question is how it should be enabled. One way is "hdparm -d 1 > > /dev/hd?" or moral equivalent in an init script. Another way appears to > > be "hda=dma ..." or "ide0=dma ..." on the kernel command line, though I > > haven't tested this yet. Apparently there are also CD-ROM drives for > > which it should not be enabled. > > Further info: "hda=dma" doesn't seem to exist, I was mistaken. "ide0=dma" > doesn't actually enable dma, for some reason. "ide0=autotune" doesn't > either. Grr. > > As for hdparm, this is complicated with ide-scsi. For ide-scsi to work > you have to make the ide-cd module ignore the scsi-ified drive. In which > case /dev/hdc or whatever it is won't work until you have loaded the > ide-scsi module, perhaps by touching /dev/scd0. So at least in my setup, > further complications are needed. > > (Btw: a nice way to enable ide-scsi might be nice as well. CD burners are > becoming very common.) You mean something like maybe with 2.4: # CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDECD is not set CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDESCSI=y CONFIG_BLK_DEV_ADMA=y CONFIG_BLK_DEV_PDC202XX=y CONFIG_BLK_DEV_VIA82CXXX=y CONFIG_IDEDMA_AUTO=y Substitute PDC202XX/VIA82CXXX for your chipset(s), of course. Also, devfs makes the scripts more sane if you wanna do hdparm things at bootup since you only see the devices you've actually got in the filesystem. If someday a Debian installation uses 2.4+ kernels only, Debian should be using devfs by default. Won't happen till then because Herbert Xu would sooner cut his wrists than apply a patch to Debian's kernels which was not required to make the thing compile and boot. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> You're entitled to my opinion unclean: err, the admin team do not control the archive, that's the ftp cabal get your cabals right, damn it :-P pgpoq0pf0qDY9.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: DMA, ide-scsi, devfs by default
On Tue, Aug 27, 2002 at 12:03:39AM -0700, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote: > > What's especially cool is that it hardwires the British (or Australian, > > in this case, I guess) spelling of `disc' as part of the UI, though > > `disk' seems far more widespread in the rest of the kernel (consistency, > > what's that?) > > In American English usage, "disk" is standard for all usages *except* > for CDs, which are always "compact discs" Yeah, but Americans can't spell. ;) -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I N33D MY G4M3Z, D00D111!! (Just ... don't ask) netgod: what do you have in your kernel??? The compiled source for driving a space shuttle??? time to make a zip drive your floppy drive then. if the kernel doesn fit on that, the kernel is an AI pgp9UlrlpWIGD.pgp Description: PGP signature
[VAC] Moving and more
Well all, the rest of this week, I'm moving into my new apartment in Eugene, Oregon. If there are any developers in the area, I'd like to get together somewhere for coffee and keysigning, please email off-list! =) I'll leave galen running here as long as I can, but I won't have time to do much of anything at all because the drive between here and there is so long. Once I get moved in, net access may be spotty or non-existant for several days at least. And then the following week, I'll be in Salem for a few days to attend my mom's wedding. =D So you can all count on me being out of touch for a couple of weeks, more or less. NMU's of anything that need it are welcome. SDL needs it - if you've got arts set up, please feel free to go squash the arts bug. A recompile with libarts1-dev _should_ fix it, though I can't myself test that and won't have a chance to coordinate testing with anyone else till I get back. Also removing the call to autogen.sh in the rules file will workaround the libtool issue for now. Beyond that, see everyone in a couple weeks, or maybe sooner! -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> The guy with a rocket launcher Overfiend: many patches on top of 4.0.1 already? Oskuro: a few only 152 megs pgpO6DiOvDSy2.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: emu10k1-mixer?
On Tue, May 08, 2001 at 12:12:56AM +0200, Jan Niehusmann wrote: > Is there a mixer available that supports the advanced mixing features > of the emu10k1 chip (found on Soundblaster Live) ? Three of them, actually. > The only one I know is 'dm', a little but very usefull command line > tool. As it's not yet in debian, I will ITP it if there are no > alternatives. I've tried to convince Alan Cox and Rui Sousa (primary emu10k1 developer) that the current CVS version needs to be packaged. Rui's made the patch and Alan's considering it for the 2.2.20pres and 2.4.whatever-acs.. You can get the CVS version of the driver at Creative's Linux non-support site, http://opensource.creative.com .. In that driver source there are utils/as10k1 and utils/mixer subdirs, these are what would be really nice to have packaged. The names of the binaries in the mixer dir are not really very good, but there's talk of changing mgr_text to emu_mgr, mixer to emu_mixer, and cmd_line to who knows what - I'm not even rightly sure how to use that tool yet. =) > There is another point I'm not sure about: > dm is part of the emu10k1-driver-package from http://opensource.creative.com/. > This package contains some other tools. Although I don't use these tools, > and I don't know much about them, I think they should be packaged together > with dm in a package called emu10k1-utils or something like that. On the > other hand, as I don't even know how to use these tools, it's not clear to > me if they are working. Perhaps we cannot retire dm yet, but you definitely want mgr_text and mixer packaged if for no other reason than that they're a good incentive to get the CVS driver installed on your machine, they're THAT MUCH nicer than dm. FWIW, I've spent some time working on figuring out how mgr_text works. I have a pretty good grasp of it now and have written a script to set up my own settings. I'd also like to write some scripts which can load and save mixer settings (OSS and emu10k1) so the handcrafted script config method will not be needed anymore. I need a few evenings to turn my notes into user docs on how things work now and something to load and save settings is going to take a lot more work or risk being a total hack. > As Soundblaster Live is a fairly common soundcard, I wonder why there > are so few tools to use it's features. Being able to route sound from > any of it's inputs to any output independently is a great thing. And > having a programmable DSP should be even greater to people who need it. I'd attribute it to many factors. There are two incompatible drivers for one and they require different tools. The tools have minimal docs. If you have a question about the inner workings of the driver, probably Rui is the best person to ask - which means most everybody does and the guy has to be swamped. I think getting the current driver in the kernels is the best bet. Once that happens and the tools are better documented, I think you'll see a bit more interest in making better tools for the SBLive. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Free software developer I am practicing a fine point of ethics. It is acceptable to shoot back. It is not acceptable to shoot first. -- Zed Pobre pgppaZLxJI8hx.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: new port: and the winner is....
On Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 01:09:03PM +0200, Richard Atterer wrote: > > Mingw requires that the program actually be able to build on a win32 > > system, but produces code that runs much faster, is far more stable > > in my experience, and competes head to head with the same app > > compiled for MSVC versions 4 and 6. > > Yes, but using mingw for the port is out of the question IMHO. If you > tried that, you'd end up re-implementing Cygwin... That's not a problem if what resulted was not as buggy and otherwise broken as cygwin tends to be. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Free software developer Feb 5 13:27:01 trinity lp0 on fire -- the Linux kernel, alerting me that there was some unknown problem with my printer (ie, it was out of ink) pgp3S5p5WZUT3.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: quake I for woody
On Mon, Dec 31, 2001 at 01:12:25AM -0500, Joey Hess wrote: > Jeff, unless I'm mistaken you've taken over maintainence of the debian > packaging of quakeforge and you have fairly current packaging in the > quakeforge-current tree in their cvs. I remember that when knghtbrd > decided to remove quakeforge packages from debian, it was because of > technical problems with the state of the quakeforge codebase, and, it > seemed to me, because of political type problems as well. Somewhat. The old QuakeForge packages were genuinely broken and segfaulted on start for a number of people. I could have tried to track down the problem, but was not willing to do that given the work involved to patch up a dead codebase. If QuakeForge still has no menus nor dependencies/fallbacks for the dozens of libraries it uses, I maintain my opinion that it's not ready to package yet. Still, whether and what to package is not my call and I'll defer to Jeff's judgement of the state of readiness of the project. The library problem could be mitigated somewhat by using debconf to write out a global default config. The menus were removed ages ago under the pretense that they would be replaced soon - that mistake was mine, but the code should still contain comments containing "MENU" or similar. Putting that back the way it was should be a simple task. The existing packages were an odd mishmash of two seperate yet equally broken and incompatible ways to mate the engine with its data. Since then, both have become obsolete. All new versions of QuakeForge support a set of Cvars for defining the locations of gamedata and which game to use by default (which allows for shareware and full gamedata to be installed at the same time without hacks, along with any other full TC you like..) It's also worthwhile to point out that this system can be applied to any and every Quake engine in a matter of ten minutes. I've written a sort of annotated diff which passes for a "tutorial" in the Quake community on how to implement similar features in all engines. > I don't care about the politics, I just think that it is crazy that > several old releases of debian shipped with non-free quake, potato > released with a working set of quakeforge packages, and woody looks like > it's going to release without quake at all. Unless you have plans to > slip quakeforge debs into it RSN, that is. There are a few other engines for Linux in various stages of stability including the one Zephaniah Hull and I have been working on, but none of them have the combination of Linux, NetQuake and QuakeWorld, and software rendering in the same project. For that reason if for none other, I would like to see working QuakeForge packages in Debian. That's the point though, working packages. I've been asked about Project Twilight packages a few times, but I don't even want to consider that until 0.2 is released. We're close to that, but there's a couple of bug reports still and rushing to get packages in before freeze is why the old Debian QuakeForge packages were so bad in the first places. If it's not done in time for freeze, it's not. We are very close though, I can count the number of things to do before release on one hand. > Years ago, I used to maintain those non-free, binary-only packages, and > I didn't pass on maintainence with the expectation that quake would be > removed from the archive entirely later down the line. I would rather > see those nasty old packages copied from hamm (or was it rexx) woody > than see a woody release with no quake at all. I'd much rather see > quakeforge or some other quake code base in contrib[2]. > > Can we do something about this? Those nasty old packages (libc5) are not necessary as I had permission to distribute the glibc2 binaries which were made for Quake: The Offering for Linux. I could also fix up SDLQuake for SDL 1.2, OpenGL, and QW support if need be. That at least I can apply -sharedir and -gamename switches to so that nasty symlink trees are not needed. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <-- That boy needs therapy "What is striking, however, is the general layout and integration of the system. Debian is a truly elegant Linux distribution; great care has been taken in the preparation of packages and their placement within the system. The sheer number of packages available is also impressive" pgpe4hdeWQP4x.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: quake I for woody
On Mon, Dec 31, 2001 at 07:02:43AM -0500, Jeff Teunissen wrote: > > Jeff, unless I'm mistaken you've taken over maintainence of the debian > > packaging of quakeforge and you have fairly current packaging in the > > quakeforge-current tree in their cvs. I remember that when knghtbrd > > decided to remove quakeforge packages from debian, it was because of > > technical problems with the state of the quakeforge codebase, and, it > > seemed to me, because of political type problems as well. > > Yeah, I'm doing the Debian stuff, at least within QuakeForge. The stuff outside I have done. Back in March or so I designed a nice, complex, and complete system for handling gamedata. It would work as long as an engine using it had fs_* Cvars and config files. Unless of course you did something unexpected in your config file, in which case it puked. Too fancy, and it broke. Since most engines don't have all that, I've just written /etc/quake.conf which gets sourced into a shell script. Contains GAMENAME and SHAREDIR. My wrapper script also assumes BASEDIR exists, though for obvious reasons it's kinda a bad idea for either file to contain that. Twilight and QF would just +set the appropriate fs_thing. Another engine such as DarkPlaces or something similar would use -sharedir, -basedir, and -gamename. As I said before, this requires a five-minute patch job. As for putting the mess in main, someone commented recently that OpenQuartz was almost usable now and has gone through the effort to make sure they've actually got license to use everything they're using. I still wonder about that, so I'll take a look for myself before trying to package it, but if it actually is worth packaging it'd put the engines in main. I can actually do the necessary work to get the shareware thing done next weekend (I'm going on holiday for a few days and won't have much time for code..) As for the registered game installer, I've got something written in perl for that already, but it's not much and it comes with a big warning that perl is not a language I actually grok. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Certified free software nut "Hey, I'm from this project called Debian... have you heard of it? Your name seems to be on a bunch of our stuff." pgpijUjiDLlIO.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: quake I for woody
On Mon, Dec 31, 2001 at 11:51:44AM -0500, Jeff Teunissen wrote: > > The stuff outside I have done. Back in March or so I designed a nice, > > complex, and complete system for handling gamedata. It would work as > > long as an engine using it had fs_* Cvars and config files. Unless of > > course you did something unexpected in your config file, in which case > > it puked. Too fancy, and it broke. > > Solution without a problem. Game data must keep its name, and both registered > and unregistered Quake game data always has to be in id1. Since the shareware data does not traditionally work in QW at all and NQ does not keep track of the game directory, I've continued putting it into idsw. I suppose this discussion could move to debian-devel-games at this point though, which I might actually still be subscribed to. Seems that the only traffic that list gets anymore is spam. I'm not actually on debian-devel anymore. > > I can actually do the necessary work to get the shareware thing done > > next weekend (I'm going on holiday for a few days and won't have much > > time for code..) As for the registered game installer, I've got > > something written in perl for that already, but it's not much and it > > comes with a big warning that perl is not a language I actually grok. > > I have had a quake-shareware package ready for upload since I needed one to > finish the QF packages, about 3 months ago as I remember it. It's at my apt > repo, alongside the (~1 month old) QF packages that depend on it. I'll look at these. Thanks to the flu - er, I mean ANTHRAX(!) - the only holiday I'm taking is a trip to the store for Theraflu and chicken soup, so I'll probably look tonight. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>No conceit in my family * wichert_ imagines master without a MTA wichert: ehm? that might hinder peformance of the BTS :p pgp80enk38v0B.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: VIM features
On Tue, Jan 01, 2002 at 02:56:58PM -0800, Caleb Shay wrote: > I second this. For example, at the bottom of /etc/vim/vimrc there are > several lines commented out "as they cause vim to behave a lot different > from regular vi". However, as was pointed out below, vim is NOT the > default vi when you install, so why not enable some more of it's better > features. After all, to make vim the alternative to vi you have to > manually use update-alternatives. If you've gone through the trouble to > do that you are obviously a "vim" user, not a "vi" user, so you WANT > those features. Actually, vim does install as an alternative for vi. At less priority than nvi obviously since nvi is more pure. It used to install itself as like priority 100 for both that and /usr/bin/editor. Neither of those were terribly good things, and I am glad to see that they've changed since potato. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Now I'll take over the world Change the Social Contract? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. -- Branden Robinson pgpbKVMhVVig0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: About sponsoring non-free packages
On Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 01:04:10PM +0100, J?r?me Marant wrote: > I propose that we do not sponsor people for non-free packages. > People that we want to join us and seeking sponsors for > non-free package are showing that they do not understand > our philosophy and dedication to Free Software. It's only fair to suggest that you may wish to start with the membership we already have. The last time this particular part of our philosophy was addressed, there was a significant group of people voicing the opinion that Debian needed its non-free software. Ahh, but Debian doesn't have non-free software! (wink, wink..) As much as I'd love to see an infusion of new blood into the project which would just as soon be rid of non-free in Debian, it's unreasonable to have a nontechnical barrier to entry which doesn't apply to existing members. The additional technical hurdles make sense given that new maintainers do tend to make mistakes. It's also true that packaging software for Debian has become significantly more complex with the introduction of things like source-deps and debconf and there are more places for a newbie to make those mistakes. But this isn't a technical hurdle. It's a political one designed to help maintain the facade that the stuff in non-free is not in fact part of Debian. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Don't feed the sigs The purpose of having mailing lists rather than having newsgroups is to place a barrier to entry which protects the lists and their users from invasion by the general uneducated hordes. -- Ian Jackson pgpcdYRpAZXZV.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Problems with libsdl1.2-dev 1.2.2-3.3 and OpenGL?
I'm sending this to debian-x on the off chance that the next person to get bitten by this problem will search the archives and find it. I'm not on debian-x, so please Cc replies if appropriate. On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 01:33:00AM +0100, Paul Fleischer wrote: > > > in some way. When I try to compile any program using SDL and OpenGL, the > > > window/screen shows the last image, from the OpenGL program which was > > > previous run. > > I am one of those nvidia-using-guys, sorry. However, I find that when I > write code against X11, and GL it works just fine - so, I would say SDL > is somewhat broken (hopefully I am wrong in this) Actually, the problem here is that Debian does not adhere to the OpenGL Linux ABI document which requires that libGL be in /usr/lib and only in /usr/lib, citing this very problem as the reason. Of course, this goes against the unix way, so naturally no Linux dist I know of actually obeys the ABI's requirement. And just to make life more interesting, several different ways of disobeying it exist, some of which are just bizarre. Basically, when you compile, /usr/X11R6/lib ends up getting checked before /usr/lib for libGL. To prevent this, the nvidia-glx maintainer diverts libGL.so*. He neglected to divert libGL.a, which is getting compiled in to your program. If you're impatient, just rm /usr/X11R6/lib/libGL.a and recompile your program. You can't use it anyway and I promise you won't miss it. ;) Actually, it's basically never a good idea to link the static libGL, it might be better to not bother installing it in future builds since the library is most certainly hardware-specific. Older 3dfx cards, and all NVIDIA cards won't work with that lib at all. The last I've heard from guys at Matrox was that they too will likely go with a non-Mesa OpenGL, and possibly ATI will as well. I'm not sure about 3DLabs, but they're not much of a player in the consumer hardware market and probably don't even know we exist. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>I swear this thing's an AI! add a GF2/3, a sizable hard drive, and a 15" flat panel and you've got a pretty damned portable machine. a GeForce Two-Thirds? Coderjoe: yes, a GeForce two-thirds, ie, any card from ATI. pgp4fpT4biWO6.pgp Description: PGP signature
