Re: Danger Will Robinson! Danger!
Manoj Srivastava writes:
> It is a quality of imlementation issue. If we are seriously
> outmoded, we can't honestly say we are trying to be the best
> distribution out there.
I must say I completely fail to understand your point. Quality has not
very much to do with the fact how new the softare in an unix-system
is. Debian GNU/Linux is a great operating system and I do believe
that one of the reasons for the high quality is the fact that Debian
is developed without unnecessary haste.
> Best means we at least try not to be several
> years behind other people.
Slink is a litlle more than a year old.
> So is miscrosoft.
> Debian has a stated goal of trying to achieve technical
> excellence. Obsolescence is a factor.
Debian has been quite successful in that. I've run several servers for
years and there has been no major problems and it has caused much less
problems than HP-UX or NT4.
I feel that no operating system can be everything for everybody. Also,
I believe that you can choose either "bleeding edge software" or "high
quality software" but not both.
> Josip> A lot of people (including me) run kernel 2.2 on slink
> Josip> machines just fine.
>
> And the point is?
The point might be that Slink can be updated to use 2.2 kernels and
other sofware which are not included. After all, quality software
compiles usually quite effortlessy with ./configure, make and make
install.
All said, as an unix user I'm very programming and server orientated
and I rather buy malt whiskey than newest available hardware. Someone
with an Athlon or a very new video card might disagree with me.
--
#!/usr/bin/perl -w -- # Ari Makela, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.iki.fi/hauva/
use strict;my $s='I am just a poor bear with a startling lack of brain.';my $t=
crypt($s,substr($s,0,2));$t=~y#IEK65c4qx AR#J o srtahuet#;$t=~s/hot/not/;my
@v=split(//,$t);push(@v,split(//,reverse('rekcah lreP')));foreach(@v){print;}
Re: Danger Will Robinson! Danger!
Filip Van Raemdonck writes:
> And if they have this new hardware, does it mean they should not be
> able to run Debian then? If that's the case, better start rewriting
> some documentation...
What I ment was that it's quite easy to upgrade Slink to use 2.2
series kernel or newer XFree86. Neither it's difficult to change the
kernel on the rescue floppy if the provided kernel does not support
hardware. If, Samba, for example, is not new enough, it's not
difficult to fetch the sources and compile it.
Somehow, I fail to notice a major problem here.
I trust Debian unstable enough to use it on my workstation. There have
not been many problems but a few that have been bad enough to make me
convinced not use unstable on servers.
--
#!/usr/bin/perl -w -- # Ari Makela, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.iki.fi/hauva/
use strict;my $s='I am just a poor bear with a startling lack of brain.';my $t=
crypt($s,substr($s,0,2));$t=~y#IEK65c4qx AR#J o srtahuet#;$t=~s/hot/not/;my
@v=split(//,$t);push(@v,split(//,reverse('rekcah lreP')));foreach(@v){print;}
Re: Danger Will Robinson! Danger!
Joey Hess writes:
> Ari Makela wrote:
> > series kernel or newer XFree86. Neither it's difficult to change the
> > kernel on the rescue floppy if the provided kernel does not support
> > hardware. If, Samba, for example, is not new enough, it's not
> > difficult to fetch the sources and compile it.
>
> Have you ever actually tried to do this?
Yes, I've installed Slink on an exotic AST server hardware. 2.0 didn't
work. There was nothing that was hard to fix.
--
#!/usr/bin/perl -w -- # Ari Makela, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.iki.fi/hauva/
use strict;my $s='I am just a poor bear with a startling lack of brain.';my $t=
crypt($s,substr($s,0,2));$t=~y#IEK65c4qx AR#J o srtahuet#;$t=~s/hot/not/;my
@v=split(//,$t);push(@v,split(//,reverse('rekcah lreP')));foreach(@v){print;}
Re: Danger Will Robinson! Danger!
John Lapeyre writes:
>Maybe you find it easy. But you are relatively elite in debian
> knowledge.
I'm not a beginner. I even earn my living as an unix
administrator. But I'm certainly not a unix guru.
>I got a notebook two months ago. The video, sound, and pcmcia are
> not supported by slink.
Are these really a big problem? During the summer same happened to me and
what I did was following:
I installed Slink. I went to a local xfree86-mirror and got SVGA
xserver version 3.3.5 which supports NM2200 chip. I dropped it in
place of the distributed. Yes, that's a wrong way of doing things but
it has always worked for me. I didn't know about http://www.debian.org/%7evincent/ > at the time (BTW: this is a
problem, people don't know about these unofficial updates).
Sound support for esssolo-1 came when I compiled 2.2-kernel. There
are instructions what needs to be updated on Debian web site.
PCMCIA is not needed for installation and it can be compiled later. It
doesn't have to work at first.
I feel that anyone who tinkers with GNU/Linux - or with any unix or
unix clone - should be able to do above things if documentation is
available. Documentation in one place instead of several web pages
which are hard to find. I've not seen such a document. Is it that I
haven't found it or is it non-existent? If latter is true I could
write some kind raw version if others agree with me on this.
>Maybe people who can't do that are lazy and stupid and don't
>deserve Debian.
And you say you don't use sarcasm? :)
>People can't ship stable Debian on new machines, but they can ship
> RH and SuSE.
I agree that many users cannot replace the kernel on the rescue disk
like I did. One needs some knowledge and also a Linux system which
most people don't have. But it's not so hard that it might sound,
either. It's enough that it works on one system, it doesn't have to
result a system where every device works.
I feel Athlon is the most important problem. As far as I remember
this is the only case where it has been impossible to install Debian
on an Intel system if we don't count very exotic hardware.
> (I don't want to attack with the sarcasm, just to make a strong point).
It seems that I am not able to write what I think so I try again:
I don't deny that there are problems for some users but in most cases
"stable is too old" problems can be solved relatively easily. This
could be made easier for inexperienced people if two things would be
done:
- if it would be easier to find the unofficial updates for
xfree and Gnome.
- as simple and short documenation as possible where it is
told how Debian is updated.
If the development cycle were faster there might not be enough time to
test enough. That's what I'm afraid of. The pool system might be a
solution.
--
#!/usr/bin/perl -w -- # Ari Makela, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.iki.fi/hauva/
use strict;my $s='I am just a poor bear with a startling lack of brain.';my $t=
crypt($s,substr($s,0,2));$t=~y#IEK65c4qx AR#J o srtahuet#;$t=~s/hot/not/;my
@v=split(//,$t);push(@v,split(//,reverse('rekcah lreP')));foreach(@v){print;}
Re: WNPP
Joey Hess writes:
> Someone should package AIDE (http://www.cs.tut.fi/~rammer/aide.html). It's
> a free tripwire replacement.
This was mentioned a week or two ago and at least two people
volunteered. I might be interested too. I've not packaged anything
yet, though, and I am not a Debian developer.
--
#!/usr/bin/perl -w -- # Ari Makela, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.iki.fi/hauva/
use strict;my $s='I am just a poor bear with a startling lack of brain.';my $t=
crypt($s,substr($s,0,2));$t=~y#IEK65c4qx AR#J o srtahuet#;$t=~s/hot/not/;my
@v=split(//,$t);push(@v,split(//,reverse('rekcah lreP')));foreach(@v){print;}
Re: debiandoc-sgml issues (html being lynx/links unfriendly)
On Sun, Apr 21, 2002 at 12:07:42AM -0700, Osamu Aoki wrote: > PS: My "Debian reference" in DDP CVS/WEB needs to be packaged. Any > volunteer? I am not Debian developer. As I am translating it to Finnish so it is quite natural for me to package it. Of course, one requirement is that my application will be accepted. My application has been, for some reason, freezed for a long time. However, I was yesterday contacted by a Debian developer about this and maybe this will happen soon. -- Ari Makela [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://arska.org/hauva/ "Sailing is, after all, a kind of grace, a kind of magic." - Phil Berman -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Linux Fonts
On Thu, Aug 15, 2002 at 09:07:47AM -0700, Dustin Mofos wrote: > As far as the characters you mentioned specifically > they should be there, in fact I can see them using > Dustismo right now (except for ?? which I have no idea > what they are). Thanks much for the link, I can see > now that I am missing a great deal of characters. I was happy to notice that the encoding of your font is 10646-1 i.e. it's an Unicode font. This is of personal interest to me because my open source hobby is a chess database (no, I haven't published it yet) and one of the many things I need is a chess font. I actually made using pfaedit a chess TTF which looks quite good when printed but horrible on screen if the size is small. I used GPL'd images from eboard-extras-pack1. When I asked at rec.games.chess.computer what kind of encoding I should use it was pointed out that Unicode has chess pieces from decimal 9812 to decimal 9823. It would be great, at least for me, if your font included chess pieces. I'll be quite willing to contribute (how can I contribute to a font?) unless someone who undestands fonts wants to do it. -- Ari Makela [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://arska.org/hauva/ "Sailing is, after all, a kind of grace, a kind of magic." - Phil Berman
How many people need locales?
Santiago Vila writes: > For the purposes of determining whether or not "most users need to > change the /etc/locale.gen file" Ben and I need an estimate of the > proportion of Debian users using locales among all Debian users. Just about anyone who's not from English speaking countries. For example, we Finns need 'åäö' and their capital versions. They just don't work if you don't set locales right. If you take a look at even just European languages you can see that most of them cannot be written with a-zA-Z. Actually, I think only English can. I'm not sure of some of the smaller countries like Belgia, though. -- #!/usr/bin/perl -w -- Ari Makela <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> # # http://arska.org/hauva/ # # "Sailing is, after all, a kind of grace, a kind of magic." - Phil Berman
Re: How many people need locales?
Ben Collins writes: > With an installed size of over 8megs, I don't think that is such a good > idea. During the configuration phase we get a rough time zone information. For example, I have $ cat /etc/timezone Europe/Helsinki >From this information it's possible to genereate the needed locales, in this spesific case the "fi_FI" locales. -- #!/usr/bin/perl -w -- Ari Makela <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> # # http://arska.org/hauva/ # # "Sailing is, after all, a kind of grace, a kind of magic." - Phil Berman
Re: How many people need locales?
Richard Kettlewell writes: > It can't here, if you want to refer to the local currency in the > conventional way. I stand corrected. I've already been bashing myself because I wrote Belgia (that's how it's written in Finnish but certainly not in English). I feel that the user should be able to choose how locales are set up. For example, most Finnish experienced users want only LC_CTYPE set. LANG="fi_FI" is feels simply horrible but Linux user base is no more only experienced users so many people disagree. I think that it would be acceptable to do this after reboot of the install. -- #!/usr/bin/perl -w -- Ari Makela <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> # # http://arska.org/hauva/ # # "Sailing is, after all, a kind of grace, a kind of magic." - Phil Berman
Re: CUPS
Dimitri Maziuk writes: > Probably because you're supposed to use a gooey web browser to add > a printer... a bit much for a postinst script. No, it can be done by hand. With cups one really has to do one's RTFM. If one does, it'll work fine. IMAO: development list shouldn't be a help desk. And thus maybe I shouldn't be writing this email. -- #!/usr/bin/perl -w -- Ari Makela <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> # # http://arska.org/hauva/ # # "Sailing is, after all, a kind of grace, a kind of magic." - Phil Berman
Re: CUPS
Michael Meskes writes: > Or else you should read my original mail. :-) > The problem is not RTFM since all works well with the default ppds, but a) > the interaction with cupsomatic-ppd and b) the missing configuration in > postints. WHere does this belong if not into -devel? Ok. I'm sorry. I misunderstood, I read that too quickly - my mistake, of course. Because I was rude in public so I want to apologize in public, too. I'm sorry. -- #!/usr/bin/perl -w -- Ari Makela <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> # # http://arska.org/hauva/ # # "Sailing is, after all, a kind of grace, a kind of magic." - Phil Berman
Re: proposal for an Apache (web server) task force
Andres Seco Hernandez writes: > Well, Apache and its related stuff is big enough to require an special > work. I've been very unhappy in the /etc/init.d/apache script - I'd like if it would check the configuration before stop or restart and if it would be possible to start Apache with option -X for testing purposes. I'm in the middle of NM process but I'm willing to contribute my own script (which needs cleaning before publishing) whether I'll become a developer or not. If my script is accepted, that is. -- #!/usr/bin/perl -w -- Ari Makela <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> # # http://arska.org/hauva/ # # "Sailing is, after all, a kind of grace, a kind of magic." - Phil Berman
Re: proposal for an Apache (web server) task force
David N. Welton writes: > If you need to start it with -X, just do it by hand. That's what I do > when I'm hacking on mod_dtcl. I'm not really sure that modes of > operation belong in init.d scripts... Possibly, that's just a question of policy. However, I do feel that having it in the init script would help novices. However, checking the configuration before stopping Apache is crucial. -- #!/usr/bin/perl -w -- Ari Makela <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> # # http://arska.org/hauva/ # # "Sailing is, after all, a kind of grace, a kind of magic." - Phil Berman
Re: EURO and CENT signs in the console keymaps
On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 11:08:48AM +0100, Allan Sandfeld Jensen wrote: > I suppose swedish and danish keyboards are alike. I think they are almost identical. AFAIK the only difference is that 'ä' and 'ö' have changed places on the keyboard. And, of course, the Danes do not use 'ö' but ø but that's a little different thing. Finnish and Swedish keyboards are identical as Finnish Linux users well know: at least Corel and RH have had several times broken Finnish keymaps (fi instead of the correct fi-latin1). So the Finnish users have used the Swedish keymaps. > standard. (AltGr+3 is £, AltGr+4 $ and AltGr+6 is apparently ¥ in X11, but I > have never seen the later drawn on any keyboard). me neither. I must show my ignorance: I don't know what it is. BTW, I'm the author of the quite bad LDP Euro Char mini howto. I wrote it because I could not find anything better. I'll try to update it RSN as my mini HOWTO worked in one way I excpected it to: I got some good help and links. -- #!/usr/bin/perl -w -- Ari Makela <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://arska.org/hauva/ # Finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for GPG public key. Before you ask by email: http://arska.org/do_not_ask_by_email/
Re: EURO and CENT signs in the console keymaps
On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 04:23:24PM +0100, Wichert Akkerman wrote:
> As far as I know most keyboards don't have an AltGr key..
In North America that's probably correct (what would they do with it?)
but it's essential with European languages with the possible exception of
British English.
In the Nordic keyboard mappings too many important characters ( {[]}\$ to
mention a few) are behind AltGR (the right alt). It's quite common that
Nordic programmers use US mappings when they code or some home brewd
version of US keymap.
--
#!/usr/bin/perl -w -- Ari Makela <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://arska.org/hauva/ #
Finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for GPG public key.
Before you ask by email: http://arska.org/do_not_ask_by_email/
Re: XFree 4.2.0 - again
On Tue, Apr 16, 2002 at 06:04:09AM +0300, Lasse Karkkainen wrote: > That's the result of reading your (=Debian developers') rude replies to > very polite questions asked by other people. If you claim that your first post was polite I am truly amazed. It was a very rude and very clueless attack against Branden. You owe him an apology. If someone was rude to you you got what you asked for. -- Ari Makela [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://arska.org/hauva/ "Sailing is, after all, a kind of grace, a kind of magic." - Phil Berman -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: XFree 4.2.0 - again
On Thu, Apr 18, 2002 at 01:14:15AM +0200, Russell Coker wrote: > What do you contribute to open source in general? A search of sourceforge > and google reveals nothing. Google finds nothing because he's a Finn whose names often have Scandinavian characters. Too many things still break if they are used. Lasse's real surname is "Kärkkäinen". I have the exact same problem: I do s/ä/a/g when I use may name in URL's and emails. Lasse seems to be a member of a remarkably productive sourceforge project called Multimedia Container Format http://sourceforge.net/projects/mcf/ >. Google search: http://www.google.com/search?as_q=Lasse+Tronic&num=10&hl=en&btnG=Google+ Search&as_epq=&as_oq=Karkkainen+K%E4rkk%E4inen&as_eq=&lr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype =&as_qdr=all&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&safe=images > -- Ari Makela [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://arska.org/hauva/ "Sailing is, after all, a kind of grace, a kind of magic." - Phil Berman -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
