Re: Proposed documentation, please comment! [was Re: Bug#838919: debian-installer: please calculate swap parition according to max RAM...]

2016-10-22 Thread Wouter Verhelst 
Ian,

On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 04:26:49PM +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:
> Wouter Verhelst writes ("Re: Proposed documentation, please comment! [was Re: 
> Bug#838919: debian-installer: please calculate swap parition according to max 
> RAM...]"):
> > On Fri, Sep 30, 2016 at 01:41:11PM +0200, Bart Schouten wrote:
> > > I don't think Debian is for lay users
> > 
> > Why?
> 
> Personally, I think Debian is trying to be for everyone.  That
> includes lay users and experts; people who want to set up one machine
> and people who want to deploy millions; people who want to the default
> install with no fuss and people who want to rebuild everything; people
> who like emacs and people who like vi; etc.
> 
> Of course we pay a price for that: sometimes there are rough edges.
> Some other distros smooth the path for their target audience, at the
> cost of making things very difficult for those who outside the target
> audience.  We usually choose not to do that.  That makes us a good
> upstream for deriving from; lets all of us collaborate on our
> different goals; gives us flexibility if we should change our mind;
> and so on.  But there is a price of course.
> 
> A lay user may find Debian is best used if they have someone nearby
> who can help them sort out any problems.  We can hope that the are
> minor and we try to remove, where possible, barriers to fixing them.

I agree with the general gist of what you wrote. However, Bart does not
seem to agree.

I think that claiming that "Debian is not for lay users", and acting in
that manner, makes us elitist, and that that is wrong. Even if that
happens without our intending to do so, I *still* think that would make
us elitist and wrong. Therefore, I want to understand why people think
that "Debian is not for lay users", so that at the least we can try to
fix the problem.

Regards,

-- 
< ron> I mean, the main *practical* problem with C++, is there's like a dozen
   people in the world who think they really understand all of its rules,
   and pretty much all of them are just lying to themselves too.
 -- #debian-devel, OFTC, 2016-02-12

Re: Proposed documentation, please comment! [was Re: Bug#838919: debian-installer: please calculate swap parition according to max RAM...]

2016-10-22 Thread Wouter Verhelst 
On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 07:17:15PM +0200, Bart Schouten wrote:
> I just mean is that you shouldn't try to expand the scope of your userbase
> beyond what is reasonable possible because it is not possible anyway

That is a fairly defeatist attitude.

> and you should recognise that you *are* a technical system of a certain
> amount of detail and expertise that is required to use it.

Debian allows those who want to, to look under the hood and do a lot of
"interesting" things. However, "a certain level of [...] expertise" is
certainly not *required* to *use* it. When I installed Debian for my
parents, they could use it with very little problems (they have since
chosen to move away from Debian for unrelated reasons, but that does not
take away the fact that they found it usable).

I think that that is a feature, and that we should try to avoid losing
it.

> And that it is also /difficult/ to a certain extent. And that's okay
> too.

I don't think so. Making something difficult is the best way to avoid
getting more users. Not getting more users is the best way to avoid
getting more developers. Not getting more developers is the best way to
lose traction, which would get us into oblivion.

-- 
< ron> I mean, the main *practical* problem with C++, is there's like a dozen
   people in the world who think they really understand all of its rules,
   and pretty much all of them are just lying to themselves too.
 -- #debian-devel, OFTC, 2016-02-12

Re: Proposed documentation, please comment! [was Re: Bug#838919: debian-installer: please calculate swap parition according to max RAM...]

2016-10-22 Thread Bart Schouten 

You say I am defeatist but you are defending against loss...

Wouter Verhelst schreef op 22-10-2016 10:24:


I think that that is a feature, and that we should try to avoid losing
it.





I don't think so. Making something difficult is the best way to avoid
getting more users. Not getting more users is the best way to avoid
getting more developers. Not getting more developers is the best way to
lose traction, which would get us into oblivion.


I have no problem with what Debian is today, but you seem to have a 
problem with it.


I am not arguing against something that exists today, I am arguing 
against trying to turn it into a user-friendly system for people like my 
little sister, which I don't have, but she is 34 and would never be able 
to use Debian (or any other Linux variant) to any reasonable degree of 
proficiency, and most people agree with that who are *NOT* using Linux.


You claim I want to move Debian backwards. I just don't want you to move 
it forward in a way that is actually a backward motion.


Many improvements today are detriments, they are actually regressions.

"It is the mark of a primitive society to view regression as progress" 
someone once said.


You speak of "making something difficult". No no, you are trying to 
"make it easy", I am not trying to "make it difficult". I am saying 
nothing to make it "worse" than what it is today, because I don't think 
today is "bad".


So you accuse me of wanting a backward motion to where we stand today 
(from where we stand today). You accuse me of advocating a certain 
direction.


I am not advocating FOR a direction, but only against it.

If you are going to exert effort to make it user friendly beyond what is 
reasonably possible -- the only thing I am advocating is realism -- the 
only thing that is going to happen is that a lot of energy is going to 
be wasted on "hand holding" and making promises to people you cannot 
keep.


You will get the PR of "Debian is user-friendly, you can use it too!" 
and then you get the disillusioned people that find out the reality of 
it. Then you get the bitterness. Don't make promises you can't keep, 
please. Ubuntu is doing that thing but the bliss of Debian is is that it 
doesn't promise anything, it is take it as it is.


Without promises, no PR around it and no image to uphold. That allows 
you to focus on what you do, and what you are, without nervous or 
frantic activity to expand the scope of the userbase by somewhat 
artificial measures such as creating /extra/ friendly user documentation 
that you cannot uphold _across the field_ without constantly chasing 
that goal. You will find that in some places you would have achieved 
your goal but there is too much documentation you cannot change and now 
there is a discrepancy between the one and the other. It Dutch we call 
it "mopping with the tap running" as I'm sure you'd know ;-).


(Dweilen met de kraan open).

I just feel it would be "pushing the boundary" but you would need to 
keep pushing forever. It would require constant effort to achieve that 
"higher level of user-friendliness". It is like having to keep blowing 
air into a baloon.


You say I am defeatist here because I would say, in essence, to you 
"Debian will never be that". But why should Debian /be/ that?


Why should it be a goal in the first place?

Why should it take that position, you know...

Re: Proposed documentation, please comment! [was Re: Bug#838919: debian-installer: please calculate swap parition according to max RAM...]

2016-10-22 Thread Bart Schouten 

Wouter Verhelst schreef op 22-10-2016 10:12:


A lay user may find Debian is best used if they have someone nearby
who can help them sort out any problems.  We can hope that the are
minor and we try to remove, where possible, barriers to fixing them.


I agree with the general gist of what you wrote. However, Bart does not
seem to agree.

I think that claiming that "Debian is not for lay users", and acting in
that manner, makes us elitist, and that that is wrong. Even if that
happens without our intending to do so, I *still* think that would make
us elitist and wrong. Therefore, I want to understand why people think
that "Debian is not for lay users", so that at the least we can try to
fix the problem.


Would you say that a C compiler is for lay users?

What about an oscilloscope?

What about a soldering machine for electronics? What about an EEPROM 
programmer? What about anything that requires some technical expertise? 
I mean, who are you trying to fool, you know. Don't ask people to fix 
their motherboards with EEPROM programmers if they are not computer 
people. Do it for them. It is fine if you have a technical "expert" 
nearby who can help you with your problems but that still doesn't mean 
Debian would be for "lay" users. You can't honestly say that some 
advanced analyzer scope is for lay users as long as they have an expert 
nearby to help them use it.


I don't think it is elitist at all. You just have to be realistic. I 
have had fellow IT students who had a hard time using Linux. Or that 
knew nothing about it and also weren't much interested when what I knew 
was barely anything and I still knew a lot more than them. Debian can't 
suddenly become what it is not and when you take all people out of it 
there are no elitists anymore anywhere but Debian will still be what it 
is today which is a product. And the product is something IT people use 
and not small children or toddlers or girls who want to make Instagram 
pictures.


You shouldn't try to turn a cat into a dog and a soldering iron is not a 
hammer. Don't try to turn the soldering iron into a hammer, it's not a 
hammer. Debian is not for everyone. Chocolate is also not for everyone. 
Don't start some effort to turn everyone to chocolate. And then exclaim 
that when someone says "Just not everyone likes chocolate" and you call 
it "elitist" or "defeatist". Why /should/ everyone like chocolate? Why 
/should/ everyone use Debian? There's not point to it. Let it be what it 
is you know. Ubuntu does a better job at making it user friendly and 
even they are not doing a great job from my perspective.


I am trying to avoid chaos that results from extraneous goals that do 
not fit the Debian model. For Ubuntu user-friendliness is a core goal 
and for Debian it isn't. Let each be what it is and be good at what it 
does. You don't have to fill every niche and you can be happy about what 
you are today because Debian is the best minimalist distribution there 
is today in my opinion that does an excellent job at staying sane for 
the most part and that has very little to it that makes you irk because 
it doesn't state such high and lofty goals such as being for everyone 
everywhere all the time. This creates sanity and the word that comes to 
mind is Occam's razor. Debian is like the minimal solution to every 
problem. Or in other words "Keep it simple, stupid".

Re: Proposed documentation, please comment! [was Re: Bug#838919: debian-installer: please calculate swap parition according to max RAM...]

2016-10-22 Thread Andrew M.A. Cater 
On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 10:24:06AM +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 07:17:15PM +0200, Bart Schouten wrote:
> > I just mean is that you shouldn't try to expand the scope of your userbase
> > beyond what is reasonable possible because it is not possible anyway
> 
> That is a fairly defeatist attitude.
> 
> > and you should recognise that you *are* a technical system of a certain
> > amount of detail and expertise that is required to use it.
> 

You need a certain amount of expertise to use any computer system. The advice
I would give to anyone contemplating a move to Linux is to have someone else
around to talk to. Debian is very straightforward to use - and to install and
run - if you've used Linux before. It's not my personal recommendation
for a first distribution to touch with no help - but then I don't recommend
that anyone should have no help when confronted with a computer for the first 
time.


> Debian allows those who want to, to look under the hood and do a lot of
> "interesting" things. However, "a certain level of [...] expertise" is
> certainly not *required* to *use* it. When I installed Debian for my
> parents, they could use it with very little problems (they have since
> chosen to move away from Debian for unrelated reasons, but that does not
> take away the fact that they found it usable).
> 
> I think that that is a feature, and that we should try to avoid losing
> it.

Absolutely 
> 
> > And that it is also /difficult/ to a certain extent. And that's okay
> > too.
> 

It's no more difficult than using a Mac for the first time / a
Windows that is much newer than the one you might be used to. Familiarity
usually beats a willingness to try something new for many people.

AndyC

> I don't think so. Making something difficult is the best way to avoid
> getting more users. Not getting more users is the best way to avoid
> getting more developers. Not getting more developers is the best way to
> lose traction, which would get us into oblivion.
> 
> -- 
> < ron> I mean, the main *practical* problem with C++, is there's like a dozen
>people in the world who think they really understand all of its rules,
>and pretty much all of them are just lying to themselves too.
>  -- #debian-devel, OFTC, 2016-02-12

Re: Proposed documentation, please comment! [was Re: Bug#838919: debian-installer: please calculate swap parition according to max RAM...]

2016-10-22 Thread Ian Jackson 
Wouter Verhelst writes ("Re: Proposed documentation, please comment! [was Re: 
Bug#838919: debian-installer: please calculate swap parition according to max 
RAM...]"):
> I think that claiming that "Debian is not for lay users", and acting in
> that manner, makes us elitist, and that that is wrong. Even if that
> happens without our intending to do so, I *still* think that would make
> us elitist and wrong. Therefore, I want to understand why people think
> that "Debian is not for lay users", so that at the least we can try to
> fix the problem.

I agree.

-- 
Ian JacksonThese opinions are my own.

If I emailed you from an address @fyvzl.net or @evade.org.uk, that is
a private address which bypasses my fierce spamfilter.

Bug#841718: ITP: libsah-schemas-rinci-perl -- Sah schemas for Rinci

2016-10-22 Thread gregor herrmann 
Package: wnpp
Owner: gregor herrmann 
Severity: wishlist
X-Debbugs-CC: debian-devel@lists.debian.org, debian-p...@lists.debian.org

* Package name: libsah-schemas-rinci-perl
  Version : 1.1.80.1
  Upstream Author : perlancar 
* URL : https://metacpan.org/release/Sah-Schemas-Rinci
* License : Artistic or GPL-1+
  Programming Lang: Perl
  Description : Sah schemas for Rinci

Sah::Schemas::Rinci contains Sha schemas for Rinci.

Sah is a schema language for validating data structures, and Rinci is a set
of extensible, language-neutral metadata specifications for code.

The package will be maintained under the umbrella of the Debian Perl Group.


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Re: Bug#841113: ITP: extremetools -- tools for running processes under extreme uid and gid

2016-10-22 Thread Adrian Bunk 
On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 08:55:26AM +0200, Jan Mojzis wrote:
> > "extremely outdated"?
> > 
> > This sounds like a hack from ~ 20 years ago when people realized that 
> > running several programs at the same time as nobody does not isolate
> > them from each other.
> > 
> > Much better solutions for restricting what a process can or cannot do 
> > are now available.
> 
> The basic idea is taken from extreme - sandboxing:
> https://cr.yp.to/talks/2007.04.27/extremesandbox.c[1] 
> 
> My 2 tools currently making only small
> part on this idea, only droping uids/gids.
> I would like to improve my tools in the future, 
> 
> but I thing first step:
> - running current daemons/cron scripts/... under differentd UIDs in the system
> simply by using extremesetuidgid/extremeenvuidgid (instead of 
> setuidgid/envuidgid)

One part of my email you conveniently ignored was:
  20 years ago such a hack would at least have ensured that every 
  process has a unique uid.
  Even this is no longer true.

I'd bet you did not even understand the problem.

I am actually quite sure you did not understand it, since what
breaks your hack is related to proper solutions for sandboxing.

> second step:
> - create (library ??) to use buggy libraries such openssl sandboxed using 
> idea from
> extreme sandbox
>...

All this feels like travelling 20 years back in time.

2007 was approximately the latest time when something like that was 
still considered acceptable security.

Today this is just extremely bad sandboxing, and anyone suggesting to
do anything like that in 2016 proves without any doubt that he doesn't
have a clue regarding security.

> Jan
>...

cu
Adrian

-- 

   "Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out
of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
   "Only a promise," Lao Er said.
   Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed

Re: Proposed documentation, please comment! [was Re: Bug#838919: debian-installer: please calculate swap parition according to max RAM...]

2016-10-22 Thread Wouter Verhelst 
On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 02:43:13PM +0200, Bart Schouten wrote:
> I have no problem with what Debian is today,

Actually, you do. You seem to be advocating against systemd; but systemd
*is* what Debian is today. Jessie has been released with systemd as its
default init system, and there are no plans to change that.

> but you seem to have a problem with it.

Nope.

> I am not arguing against something that exists today, I am arguing against
> trying to turn it into a user-friendly system for people like my little
> sister, which I don't have, but she is 34 and would never be able to use
> Debian (or any other Linux variant) to any reasonable degree of proficiency,

That's your hypothetical experience. I, on the other hand, know millions
of hypothetical lay people who are pefectly capable of using Debian.

[...]
> You claim I want to move Debian backwards.

You are placing words in my mouth.

> You speak of "making something difficult". No no, you are trying to "make it
> easy",

No no, I am not doing that. I really am talking about "making something
difficult", which is a good way to avoid getting more users.

There is a whole gray area between the black of "making something
difficult" and the white of "making something easy".

> I am not trying to "make it difficult". I am saying nothing to make
> it "worse" than what it is today, because I don't think today is "bad".

Neither do I. Systemd actually saved me a run to the data center
once[1]. That's a *good* thing.

> So you accuse me of wanting a backward motion to where we stand today (from
> where we stand today). You accuse me of advocating a certain direction.

Again, you are placing words in my mouth.

[...]
> You will get the PR of "Debian is user-friendly, you can use it too!" and
> then you get the disillusioned people that find out the reality of it. Then
> you get the bitterness. Don't make promises you can't keep, please.

The promise I think we should make is that Debian can be used by people
of all kinds of backgrounds -- experts and lay people alike. The former
will probably customize their system; the latter won't. That simply
means we just need to make the defaults work really really well.

That (making the defaults work) is a promise we can easily keep.

[...]

[1] kernel OOM'd sshd. systemd restarted it.

-- 
< ron> I mean, the main *practical* problem with C++, is there's like a dozen
   people in the world who think they really understand all of its rules,
   and pretty much all of them are just lying to themselves too.
 -- #debian-devel, OFTC, 2016-02-12

Keysafe dynamic UID

2016-10-22 Thread Sean Whitton 
Dear base-passwd maintainer,

I am packaging Keysafe,[1] and the binary package keysafe-server needs
to create a new system user with a dynamically allocated UID.

I am using the username 'keysafe'.  I do not anticipate any collision
with any other package, but policy says I should e-mail you to confirm
that.

For unrelated reasons the package will be uploaded to experimental, so I
will go ahead and submit an RFS to have it uploaded.  There is ample
time for you to object to my choice of 'keysafe' before the package goes
anywhere near being uploaded to sid.

Thanks!

[1] https://joeyh.name/code/keysafe/

-- 
Sean Whitton


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Re: Keysafe dynamic UID

2016-10-22 Thread Vincent Bernat 
 ❦ 22 octobre 2016 14:57 -0700, Sean Whitton  :

> I am packaging Keysafe,[1] and the binary package keysafe-server needs
> to create a new system user with a dynamically allocated UID.
>
> I am using the username 'keysafe'.  I do not anticipate any collision
> with any other package, but policy says I should e-mail you to confirm
> that.

It is better to use either _keysafe or Debian-keysafe to avoid collision
with existing users (like Kevin Eysafe).
-- 
There are more things in heaven and earth,
Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
-- Wm. Shakespeare, "Hamlet"


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Re: Keysafe dynamic UID

2016-10-22 Thread Jakub Wilk 

* Vincent Bernat , 2016-10-23, 00:14:
I am using the username 'keysafe'.  I do not anticipate any collision with 
any other package, but policy says I should e-mail you to confirm that.
It is better to use either _keysafe or Debian-keysafe to avoid collision with 
existing users (like Kevin Eysafe).


Maybe we could fix #429671?
I know it's been only 9 years old, but still...

--
Jakub Wilk

Re: Keysafe dynamic UID

2016-10-22 Thread Sean Whitton 
Hello,

On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 12:14:43AM +0200, Vincent Bernat wrote:
> It is better to use either _keysafe or Debian-keysafe to avoid collision
> with existing users (like Kevin Eysafe).

Thanks.  Will do.

-- 
Sean Whitton


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jquery 3.x uploaded to unstable

2016-10-22 Thread Antonio Terceiro 
To those who care about jquery: I have just uploaded jquery 3.1.1-1 to
unstable.

jQuery 3.x is supposed to be mostly backwards compatible with 1.x,
however there a few breaking changes such as removal of APIs that were
already marked as deprecated in 1.x, and change of behaviour on edge
cases.

jQuery 3.0 was release back in June, so in principle affected upstreams
had at least a few months to deal with any fallout. If that's not the
case, you can refer upstream to this upgrade guide, which documents the
details:

https://jquery.com/upgrade-guide/3.0/

A ddlist of affected packages is below.

A. Maitland Bottoms 
   gr-radar
   libiio (U)

Adrian Knoth 
   calf (U)

Afif Elghraoui 
   pbh5tools (U)
   python-pbcore (U)

Afif Elghraoui 
   pbalign (U)
   python-pbh5tools (U)

Agustin Henze 
   imagesloaded
   jquery-colorbox
   nikola

Agustin Henze 
   jquery-goodies (U)

Al Stone 
   libbrahe

Alastair McKinstry 
   fcm
   libdap

Alberto Garcia 
   filetea

Alberto Luaces Fernández 
   openscenegraph (U)
   openscenegraph-3.4

Alessandro Ghedini 
   libdevel-nytprof-perl (U)

Alessio Treglia 
   libgig (U)
   sord (U)

Alexander Strasser 
   ffmpeg (U)

Alexander Wirt 
   icinga (U)
   nagios3 (U)

Alexandre Fayolle 
   python-scipy (U)
   spyder (U)

Alexandre Gramfort 
   python-mne (U)

Alexandre Viau 
   influxdb (U)
   select2.js (U)

Andrea Capriotti 
   autoradio

Andrea Veri 
   webdeveloper (U)

Andreas Bombe 
   anki

Andreas Cadhalpun 
   ffmpeg (U)

Andreas Henriksson 
   libgda5 (U)

Andreas Moog 
   elycharts.js (U)

Andreas Tille 
   ball (U)
   cimg (U)
   freecontact (U)
   libgtkdatabox (U)
   liblemon (U)
   librostlab-blast (U)
   mobyle (U)
   mrs (U)
   openslide-python (U)
   orthanc (U)
   osrm (U)
   pynast (U)
   python-cogent (U)
   python-fitbit (U)
   python-mne (U)
   qiime (U)
   qtiplot (U)
   r-cran-shiny (U)

Andrew Shadura 
   sparkleshare (U)

Andrew Starr-Bochicchio 
   loggerhead (U)
   python-django-debug-toolbar (U)
   stackapplet (U)

Andriy Senkovych 
   salt (U)

Andy Li 
   haxe

Angel Abad 
   libmojolicious-perl (U)

Angelos Tzotsos 
   pycsw (U)

Angus Lees 
   cargo (U)
   rustc (U)

Anthony Towns 
   gitit (U)

Antoine Beaupré 
   photofloat

Anton Gladky 
   clp (U)
   coinutils (U)
   eigen3 (U)
   esys-particle (U)
   freeimage (U)
   lammps (U)
   libqglviewer (U)
   libstxxl (U)
   qtiplot (U)
   sdformat (U)
   viennacl (U)
   vtk6 (U)

Anton Gladky 
   freemat (U)

Antonio Terceiro 
   cucumber (U)
   debci
   json-schema-validator (U)
   lava-server (U)
   ruby-builder (U)
   ruby-jquery-rails (U)
   ruby-mocha (U)
   ruby-simplecov-html (U)
   ruby2.3

Antonio Terceiro 
   ruby-bdb (U)

Antonio Valentino 
   epr-api (U)

Apollon Oikonomopoulos 
   haproxy (U)

APT Development Team 
   python-apt

Arnaud Fontaine 
   apachedex

Aron Xu 
   opencc (U)

Arthur Gautier 
   php-codecoverage (U)

Asias He 
   opencc (U)

Balasankar C 
   ruby-rotp (U)

Balint Reczey 
   erlang-cowboy (U)
   ffmpeg (U)
   kodi (U)

Barry deFreese 
   box2d (U)
   libclaw (U)
   libphysfs (U)

Barry Warsaw 
   genshi (U)
   python-webob (U)

Bas Couwenberg 
   gdal (U)
   geographiclib (U)
   geos (U)
   gmt (U)
   grass (U)
   libosmium (U)
   netcdf (U)
   netcdf-cxx (U)
   netcdf-fortran (U)
   openlayers (U)
   proj (U)
   protozero (U)
   pyosmium (U)
   python-rtree (U)
   python-stetl (U)
   qgis (U)
   readosm (U)

Bastien Roucariès 
   imagemagick (U)

Bdale Garbee 
   plinth (U)

Ben Finney 
   python-coverage

Benda Xu 
   scim (U)

Benedict Verhegghe 
   pyformex

Benjamin Drung 
   flower
   salt (U)

Bernd Zeimetz 
   flask-wtf (U)

bertrand Neron 
   macsyfinder (U)

Bjoern Boschman 
   phpsysinfo

Bret Curtis 
   mygui

Brian May 
   billiard (U)
   celery (U)
   django-ajax-selects (U)
   django-guardian (U)
   python-django (U)
   python-django-extensions (U)
   python-django-mptt (U)

Cacti Maintainer 
   cacti

Carsten Schoenert 
   libcoap (U)

Charlie Smotherman 
   openteacher

Chow Loong Jin 
   sigx

Chris Lamb 
   diffoscope (U)
   gunicorn
   python-django (U)
   simile-timeline (U)

Chris Leishman 
   libcypher-parser
   libneo4j-client

Christian Hofstaedtler 
   ruby2.3 (U)

Christian Kastner 
   diveintopython3
   gitinspector (U)

Christian Marillat 
   dispcalgui

Christian Perrier 
   geneweb

Christine Spang 
   prophet (U)

Christoph Berg 
   pgadmin3 (U)
   phppgadmin (U)

Christoph Egger 
   libcsfml (U)
   libsfml (U)
   python-icalendar (U)

Christoph Haas 
   python-weberror (U)
   zabbix (U)

Christopher Baines 
   osrm (U)

Chrysostomos Nanakos 
   xlog (U)

Clint Adams 
   gitit (U)
   libmsv

CSILLAG Tamas 
   libmojolicious-perl (U)

Cédric Boutillier 
   cucumber (U)
   nanoc (U)
   ruby-cri (U)
   ruby-github-markup (U)
   ruby-mocha (U)
   yard (U)

D Haley 
   libstxxl (U)

Damien Raude-Morvan 
   gradle (U)

Damyan Ivanov 
   libdancer-perl (U)

Daniel Kahn Gillmor 
   py-postgresql (U)
   requestpolicy (U)
   trac (U)

Re: jquery 3.x uploaded to unstable

2016-10-22 Thread Ben Finney 
Antonio Terceiro  writes:

> To those who care about jquery: I have just uploaded jquery 3.1.1-1 to
> unstable.

Thank you to everyone who worked to bring this important update to Debian!

-- 
 \ “Guaranteed to work throughout its useful life.” —packaging for |
  `\  clockwork toy, Hong Kong |
_o__)  |
Ben Finney

Bug#841739: general: unable to suspend

2016-10-22 Thread Dmitry A. Zvorykin 
Package: general
Severity: normal

Dear Maintainer,

I have installed a Debian testing (stretch) and found out there is no SUSPEND 
option.
I googled all around and installed acpi-* packages, but I am still unable to 
suspend.
If I run 'suspend' on the terminal, nothing happens and pm-suspend is not 
available.


-- System Information:
Debian Release: stretch/sid
  APT prefers testing
  APT policy: (500, 'testing')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)

Kernel: Linux 4.7.0-1-amd64 (SMP w/2 CPU cores)
Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash
Init: systemd (via /run/systemd/system)

Bug#841739: marked as done (general: unable to suspend)

2016-10-22 Thread Debian Bug Tracking System 
Your message dated Sun, 23 Oct 2016 01:15:51 +0200
with message-id <84dc87ce-09d7-7c44-6efe-b5918a5ec...@debian.org>
and subject line Re: Bug#841739: general: unable to suspend
has caused the Debian Bug report #841739,
regarding general: unable to suspend
to be marked as done.

This means that you claim that the problem has been dealt with.
If this is not the case it is now your responsibility to reopen the
Bug report if necessary, and/or fix the problem forthwith.

(NB: If you are a system administrator and have no idea what this
message is talking about, this may indicate a serious mail system
misconfiguration somewhere. Please contact ow...@bugs.debian.org
immediately.)


-- 
841739: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=841739
Debian Bug Tracking System
Contact ow...@bugs.debian.org with problems
--- Begin Message ---
Package: general
Severity: normal

Dear Maintainer,

I have installed a Debian testing (stretch) and found out there is no SUSPEND 
option.
I googled all around and installed acpi-* packages, but I am still unable to 
suspend.
If I run 'suspend' on the terminal, nothing happens and pm-suspend is not 
available.


-- System Information:
Debian Release: stretch/sid
  APT prefers testing
  APT policy: (500, 'testing')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)

Kernel: Linux 4.7.0-1-amd64 (SMP w/2 CPU cores)
Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash
Init: systemd (via /run/systemd/system)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Am 23.10.2016 um 01:04 schrieb Dmitry A. Zvorykin:
> Package: general
> Severity: normal
> 
> Dear Maintainer,
> 
> I have installed a Debian testing (stretch) and found out there is no SUSPEND 
> option.
> I googled all around and installed acpi-* packages, but I am still unable to 
> suspend.
> If I run 'suspend' on the terminal, nothing happens and pm-suspend is not 
> available.

Try "systemctl suspend"


-- 
Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the
universe are pointed away from Earth?



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
--- End Message ---

Bug#841742: ITP: libwww-form-urlencoded-perl -- parser and builder for application/x-www-form-urlencoded format

2016-10-22 Thread gregor herrmann 
Package: wnpp
Owner: gregor herrmann 
Severity: wishlist
X-Debbugs-CC: debian-devel@lists.debian.org, debian-p...@lists.debian.org

* Package name: libwww-form-urlencoded-perl
  Version : 0.23
  Upstream Author : Masahiro Nagano 
* URL : https://metacpan.org/release/WWW-Form-UrlEncoded
* License : Artistic or GPL-1+
  Programming Lang: Perl
  Description : parser and builder for application/x-www-form-urlencoded 
format

WWW::Form::UrlEncoded provides an application/x-www-form-urlencoded encoding
parser and builder. This module aims to be compatible with other CPAN modules
like HTTP::Body's urlencoded parser.

The package will be maintained under the umbrella of the Debian Perl Group.


signature.asc
Description: Digital Signature

Results for Declassifying debian-private

2016-10-22 Thread devotee 
Greetings,

This message is an automated, unofficial publication of vote results.
 Official results shall follow, sent in by the vote taker, namely
Debian Project Secretary

This email is just a convenience for the impatient.
 I remain, gentle folks,

Your humble servant,
Devotee (on behalf of Debian Project Secretary)

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Starting results calculation at Sun Oct 23 00:00:04 2016

Option 1 "Repeal previous GR"
Option 2 "Acknowledge difficulty"
Option 3 "Remain private"
Option 4 "Further Discussion"

In the following table, tally[row x][col y] represents the votes that
option x received over option y.

  Option
  1 2 3 4 
===   ===   ===   === 
Option 1  13783   188 
Option 2 83  71   156 
Option 3130   148 186 
Option 4 376744   



Looking at row 2, column 1, Acknowledge difficulty
received 83 votes over Repeal previous GR

Looking at row 1, column 2, Repeal previous GR
received 137 votes over Acknowledge difficulty.

Option 1 Reached quorum: 188 > 43.6806593356831
Option 2 Reached quorum: 156 > 43.6806593356831
Option 3 Reached quorum: 186 > 43.6806593356831


Option 1 passes Majority.   5.081 (188/37) >= 1
Option 2 passes Majority.   2.328 (156/67) >= 1
Option 3 passes Majority.   4.227 (186/44) >= 1


  Option 1 defeats Option 2 by ( 137 -   83) =   54 votes.
  Option 3 defeats Option 1 by ( 130 -   83) =   47 votes.
  Option 1 defeats Option 4 by ( 188 -   37) =  151 votes.
  Option 3 defeats Option 2 by ( 148 -   71) =   77 votes.
  Option 2 defeats Option 4 by ( 156 -   67) =   89 votes.
  Option 3 defeats Option 4 by ( 186 -   44) =  142 votes.


The Schwartz Set contains:
 Option 3 "Remain private"



-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

The winners are:
 Option 3 "Remain private"

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

-- 
The voters have spoken, the bastards... --unknown
DEbian VOTe EnginE
digraph Results {
  ranksep=0.25;
 "Repeal previous GR\n5.08" [ style="filled" , fontname="Helvetica", 
fontsize=10  ];
 "Repeal previous GR\n5.08" -> "Acknowledge difficulty\n2.33" [ label="54" ];
 "Repeal previous GR\n5.08" -> "Further Discussion" [ label="151" ];
 "Acknowledge difficulty\n2.33" [ style="filled" , fontname="Helvetica", 
fontsize=10  ];
 "Acknowledge difficulty\n2.33" -> "Further Discussion" [ label="89" ];
 "Remain private\n4.23" [ style="filled" , color="powderblue", shape=egg, 
fontcolor="NavyBlue", fontname="Helvetica", fontsize=10  ];
 "Remain private\n4.23" -> "Repeal previous GR\n5.08" [ label="47" ];
 "Remain private\n4.23" -> "Acknowledge difficulty\n2.33" [ label="77" ];
 "Remain private\n4.23" -> "Further Discussion" [ label="142" ];
 "Further Discussion" [ style="filled" , shape=diamond, fontcolor="Red", 
fontname="Helvetica", fontsize=10  ];
}


pgphXYt06LhGH.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Bug#841743: ITP: libhttp-multipartparser-perl -- HTTP multipart MIME parser

2016-10-22 Thread gregor herrmann 
Package: wnpp
Owner: gregor herrmann 
Severity: wishlist
X-Debbugs-CC: debian-devel@lists.debian.org, debian-p...@lists.debian.org

* Package name: libhttp-multipartparser-perl
  Version : 0.01
  Upstream Author : Christian Hansen 
* URL : https://metacpan.org/release/HTTP-MultiPartParser
* License : Artistic or GPL-1+
  Programming Lang: Perl
  Description : HTTP multipart MIME parser

The HTTP::MultiPartParser module provides a low-level API for processing
multipart MIME data streams conforming to multipart types as defined in RFC
2616 .

The package will be maintained under the umbrella of the Debian Perl Group.


signature.asc
Description: Digital Signature

Bug#841745: ITP: libhttp-entity-parser-perl -- PSGI compliant HTTP Entity Parser

2016-10-22 Thread gregor herrmann 
Package: wnpp
Owner: gregor herrmann 
Severity: wishlist
X-Debbugs-CC: debian-devel@lists.debian.org, debian-p...@lists.debian.org

* Package name: libhttp-entity-parser-perl
  Version : 0.18
  Upstream Author : Masahiro Nagano 
* URL : https://metacpan.org/release/HTTP-Entity-Parser
* License : Artistic or GPL-1+
  Programming Lang: Perl
  Description : PSGI compliant HTTP Entity Parser

HTTP::Entity::Parser is a PSGI-compliant HTTP Entity parser. This module also
is compatible with HTTP::Body. Unlike HTTP::Body, HTTP::Entity::Parser reads
HTTP entities from PSGI's environment $env->{'psgi.input'} and parses it.
This module supports application/x-www-form-urlencoded, multipart/form-data
and application/json.

The package will be maintained under the umbrella of the Debian Perl Group.


signature.asc
Description: Digital Signature

Re: Proposed documentation, please comment! [was Re: Bug#838919: debian-installer: please calculate swap parition according to max RAM...]

2016-10-22 Thread Bart Schouten 

Wouter Verhelst schreef op 22-10-2016 21:39:

On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 02:43:13PM +0200, Bart Schouten wrote:

I have no problem with what Debian is today,


Actually, you do. You seem to be advocating against systemd; but 
systemd

*is* what Debian is today. Jessie has been released with systemd as its
default init system, and there are no plans to change that.


Why the hell are you bringing systemd into this discussion. This was 
about documentation foremost.


I am not arguing against something that exists today, I am arguing 
against
trying to turn it into a user-friendly system for people like my 
little
sister, which I don't have, but she is 34 and would never be able to 
use
Debian (or any other Linux variant) to any reasonable degree of 
proficiency,


That's your hypothetical experience. I, on the other hand, know 
millions

of hypothetical lay people who are pefectly capable of using Debian.


Why don't you try to insult me more visibly, and insult everyone's 
intelligence at the same time.




You claim I want to move Debian backwards.


You are placing words in my mouth.


You say my opinion comes down to making Debian difficult. I interpret 
that as a backward motion compared to your wanting to move Debian 
forward in becoming easier.


However, I hardly do a thing other than solving my own issues and 
sometimes writing documentation about that.


How that can "make" Debian "difficult" is beyond me. I would first need 
to perform some magical action to turn Debian difficult, now wouldn't I. 
Not touching it can hardly render something difficult. You attribute 
some kind of magical power to me.


A stone you don't touch is not getting moved.

A Debian I don't touch can also not become difficult because of my 
actions.


If I only advocate against something the only consequence of that is the 
status quo is preserved. If I turn off the tap, the water stops running, 
and the basin doesn't overflow.


I am only saying: don't do something. That can hardly cause Debian to 
become difficult.





No no, I am not doing that. I really am talking about "making something
difficult", which is a good way to avoid getting more users.


You'll still need to explain my magical powers in achieving that. You're 
attributing nonsense to people here. You have a political agenda, I can 
see that, but I'm not part of that.




Neither do I. Systemd actually saved me a run to the data center
once[1]. That's a *good* thing.


What the hell are you talking about. We were speaking of documentation 
and taking people by the hand in achieving stuff they otherwise wouldn't 
have.


The topic was the swap partition and what size it should have. The 
proposal was to write a step-by-step guide for people to know how to 
resize their swap partition to keep up with a changed memory (RAM) 
footprint. In response to that I said that I thought Debian was not for 
lay users, and you responded to that, and to nothing else.


In the context of that statement I uttered that I felt "take by the 
hand" documentation would not be good for Debian in the sense that you 
would need constant effort to provide such documentation as a greater 
power is to be had in allowing people to understand what is necessary 
themselves and then for them to do that.


I said these things in the context of the proposal to write some 
documentation that would allow a novice user to understand or at least 
to perform the steps required to increase the size of the swap 
partition, to which I offered some help, but I also noted that it would 
be a bit silly (in those terms) to think that e.g. Windows users who 
know nothing about computers should be using Debian in the first place. 
I think that is just not realistic to begin with.


I frequently help people on the grub user mailing list to repartition 
their drives. At least, the same question keeps popping up.


But those people display a lot of technical knowledge and still don't 
know how to do it (because some piece of the puzzle is missing, 
usually).


Ordinary people generally do not sit on computer mailing lists and if 
anything they just ask questions on a forum. But a non-technical user 
won't be able to do even that.


Your million hypothetical lay users are not non-technical people. People 
are extremely daunted when they even see those instructions. So I don't 
know what you are talking about. You have a misconception of what "lay" 
users then are, and how much technical you can expect of people in 
general. I know my sister, you don't. I know how much she panicked with 
Windows itself. I know what would happen if I wasn't there for Linux.


You can't expect the general population to use a Linux system, you just 
can't.


What Ian said was that you can expect a lay user to be able to use Linux 
(or Debian) if he has an expert nearby. I agree with that. You say I 
don't. Whatever. That still doesn't make Debian suitable for those Lay 
users (without the experts, nearby).




Again, you are placin