date:20141110

[adding bugreport as recipient]

Quoting Ben Finney (2014-11-10 00:33:52)
> Simon McVittie  writes:
> 
> > Does [xkcdpass] have significant advantages over pwqgen, in the
> > passwdqc package?
> 
> Significant advantages:
> 
> * ‘xkcdpass’ provides an implementation of a much-discussed scheme for
>   strong passphrase generation. (Which is not to say the results are
>   stronger than all others; only that these are relatively strong.)
> 
>   I don't know of any other tool implementing the scheme discussed in
>   XKCD 936.

You probably mean other tools in Debian, but if you more generally mean 
other FLOSS tools, there is (an inferior [Crypt::PW44] and) 
[Crypt::XkcdPassword] which I have considered packging.

...or at least I suspect it might be superior, so let me rephrase as 
curious questions for your xkcdpass tool:

  * Does it handle alternate dictionaries (e.g. danish)?
  * Does it handle massaging dictionary (e.g. strip profanities)?

Crypt::XkcdPassword by default uses "the most commonly used words in 
film scripts and television shows", and documents examples of 
adaptations at .  
That's meant not only as friendly competition but also as inspiration 
for "your" tool in case you find those adaption features relevant.

Thanks for packaging this,

 - Jonas

Crypt::XkcdPassword: 

[Crypt::PW44]: 

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Re: Jessie Freeze -> What is the next release name? (jessie+1)

Hi,

Arno Töll:
> On 10.11.2014 10:55, Dimitri John Ledkov wrote:
> > i am disappoint. =( will second the motion on debian-vote to go for zurg.
> 
> There is a ongoing GR proposal waiting for seconds, see
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-curiosa/2014/11/msg3.html which I
> fully support!
> 
Don't we all love people playing games with our mailing lists.

>> To: debian-vote 

So it's not been formally posted to -vote AFAICT. On the other hand, we
desperately need some levity there, so … Jakub, please do.

FWIW: seconded.

-- 
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Re: Jessie Freeze -> What is the next release name? (jessie+1)

2014-11-10 Thread Holger Levsen

Hi,

On Montag, 10. November 2014, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
> Don't we all love people playing games with our mailing lists.

no.
 
> >> To: debian-vote 
> So it's not been formally posted to -vote AFAICT. On the other hand, we
> desperately need some levity there, so … Jakub, please do.
> FWIW: seconded.

can you please keep this to -curiosa where it belongs?


cheers,
Holger




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Re: Bad weather in testing ?

2014-11-10 Thread Simon McVittie

On 09/11/14 08:38, Ralf Treinen wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 07, 2014 at 06:11:45PM +, Simon McVittie wrote:
>> On 07/11/14 16:15, Ralf Treinen wrote:
>>> There is only one package in the "each" category, and this is a false
>>> positive due to multiarch: lib32nss-mdns, which exists only on amd64
>>> (this is why it shows up in the each category) and depends on an i386
>>> package, which is deliberate in this case.
>>
>> That's a transitional hack [...]
>> (I'm surprised the wine* family of packages don't get similar results
>> though - that's where I stole the idea from.)
> 
> can you be more specific? Why do you think that there may be an issue with
> the wine packages?

I thought I remembered that wine:amd64 depended on wine32 which is only
available on i386, but in fact it depends on wine64|wine32, so QA tools
are happy with the situation.

It seems a little odd that wine64 would be the preferred dependency,
since I would guess that most users of Wine are still more interested in
running 32-bit Windows software (I've certainly never wanted to run
Win64 stuff), but presumably the Wine maintainers have done the research
and determined that upgrades from wheezy behave acceptably.

S

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Bug#768942: ITP: python-rudolf -- colour output plugin for the nose testing framework

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Thomas Goirand 

* Package name: python-rudolf
  Version : 0.3
  Upstream Author : John J. Lee 
* URL : https://github.com/bitprophet/rudolf
* License : ZPL-2.1
  Programming Lang: Python
  Description : colour output plugin for the nose testing framework

 Rudolf provides a colour output plugin for the nose testing framework. It only
 works on Unix-like systems, as it uses ANSI colour codes. To use it, simply
 run "nosetests --with-color" to turn it on.


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Re: A concerned user -- debian Guidelines

2014-11-10 Thread Stephen Gran

This one time, at band camp, Nathael Pajani said:
> You certainly heard about "debianfork" (http://debianfork.org/) and
> from a user point of view this is a tragedy.

Debian welcomes forks - we have had dozens in the past, and I hope we'll
have many more in the future.  Each one adds something to the ecosystem,
polishes some rough edge in Debian, and makes the overall free software
world better.

From your mail, you seem to be under the mistaken impression that Debian
doesn't support multiple init systems and you seem upset about that.
Happily, you are mistaken.  However, even were that correct, I would
encourage you to join the fork effort and make the Debian ecosystem
stronger.

Cheers,
-- 
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|   ,''`.Stephen Gran |
|  : :' :sg...@debian.org |
|  `. `'Debian user, admin, and developer |
|`- http://www.debian.org |
 -


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Re: What is the policy on audio group? and, proposal of a new group for the jack audio server

2014-11-10 Thread Simon McVittie

On 10/11/14 02:59, Christian Hofstaedtler wrote:
> I vaguely remember PolicyKit being involved in the daemon situation,
> when mpd tries to talk to a pulseaudio server which magically gets
> spawned

PolicyKit is typically (only?) used when a less-privileged process,
typically a user interface, communicates with a more-privileged service.
It's possible that something PK-related is going on, but I can't
immediately see any reason why either mpd or PulseAudio would want to
interact with it: both normally run with an ordinary user's privileges.

The typical scenario is:

* I tell NetworkManager to connect to a wireless network
  (or tell some other privileged service to do some other action)

* NetworkManager (or other privileged service) asks PolicyKit "is it OK
  to let smcv do this?"

* PolicyKit consults its sysadmin-, distro- or upstream-supplied
  policies, checks the facts relevant to those policies (I am in
  some groups, I am actively logged-in locally), optionally asks me
  for my password to confirm that I am actually present, and replies
  "yes" or "no"

Regards,
S


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Bug#768952: ITP: python-invoke -- Pythonic task execution

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Thomas Goirand 

* Package name: python-invoke
  Version : 0.9.0
  Upstream Author : Jeff Forcier 
* URL : https://pypi.python.org/pypi/invoke/0.9.0
* License : BSD-2-clause
  Programming Lang: Python
  Description : Pythonic task execution

 Invoke is a Python (2.6+ and 3.2+) task execution tool and library, drawing
 inspiration from various sources to arrive at a powerful and clean feature
 set.
 .
 Like Ruby's Rake tool and Invoke's own predecessor Fabric 1.x, it provides a
 clean, high level API for running shell commands and defining/organizing task
 functions from a tasks.py file.
 .
 From GNU Make, it inherits an emphasis on minimal boilerplate for common
 patterns and the ability to run multiple tasks in a single invocation.
 .
 Following the lead of most Unix CLI applications, it offers a traditional
 flag-based style of command-line parsing, deriving flag names and value types
 from task signatures.
 .
 Like many of its predecessors, it offers advanced features as well:
 namespacing, task aliasing, before/after hooks, parallel execution and more.

This is yet another (indirect) dependency for OpenStack Fuel.


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Re: free choice in installer?

2014-11-10 Thread Simon McVittie

On 10/11/14 10:15, Michael Ole Olsen wrote:
> If there was a choice in the installer for Init system
> and boot loader there would be nobody complaining.

If I had to choose an init system and a boot loader during the normal
installation flow, I'd complain. Options have a cost, forcing a user to
answer a question before they can continue (whether they know or care
about the answer or not) has a higher cost, and I think one of the major
improvements in debian-installer (and package installation in general)
since I started using Debian is that it asks *fewer* questions.

If you have sufficiently specialized requirements that our recommended
default is unsuitable, that's a good time to look into the "expert"
installer mode, pre-seeding, or installing with the default
init/bootloader/etc. and switching afterwards. For instance, for the
init side of things, I did some testing at the weekend which confirms that

preseed/late_command="in-target apt-get install -y sysvinit-core"

does what you might expect.

> forced to use GUI desktop crap when they want a server (ubuntu)

I wouldn't use it myself, because I prefer Debian, but
http://www.ubuntu.com/download/server does exist.

Installing servers with the standard installer and accidentally getting
a full GUI seems to be a common mistake for new Ubuntu users, and I
think Debian is right to present that choice as an option in the
installer rather than an entirely separate installation image, but I can
understand Ubuntu's point of view here.

S

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Bug#768955: ITP: python-invocations -- reusable invoke tasks

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Thomas Goirand 

* Package name: python-invocations
  Version : 0.6.2
  Upstream Author : Jeff Forcier 
* URL : https://pypi.python.org/pypi/invocations
* License : BSD-2-clause
  Programming Lang: Python
  Description : reusable invoke tasks

 Invocations is a collection of reusable "Invoke" tasks/task modules, including
 (but not limited to) Python project management tools such as documentation
 building and dependency organization.
 .
 It has no stand-alone components and is designed to be imported into your
 pre-existing Invoke task files.

This is also an indirect dependency of OpenStack Fuel.


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Bug#768956: ITP: python-fabric -- tool for remote execution and deployment over SSH

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Thomas Goirand 

* Package name: python-fabric
  Version : 1.10.0
  Upstream Author : Jeff Forcier 
* URL : https://pypi.python.org/pypi/Fabric
* License : BSD-2-clause
  Programming Lang: Python
  Description : tool for remote execution and deployment over SSH

 Fabric is a Python (2.5-2.7) library and command-line tool for streamlining
 the use of SSH for application deployment or systems administration tasks.
 .
 It provides a basic suite of operations for executing local or remote shell
 commands (normally or via sudo) and uploading/downloading files, as well as
 auxiliary functionality such as prompting the running user for input, or
 aborting execution.

This is yet another dependency for OpenStack Fuel.


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Re: Bug#768956: ITP: python-fabric -- tool for remote execution and deployment over SSH

2014-11-10 Thread Adam D. Barratt


On 2014-11-10 11:40, Thomas Goirand wrote:

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Thomas Goirand 

* Package name: python-fabric
  Version : 1.10.0
  Upstream Author : Jeff Forcier 
* URL : https://pypi.python.org/pypi/Fabric
* License : BSD-2-clause
  Programming Lang: Python
  Description : tool for remote execution and deployment over SSH


This has been in Debian for years - as "fabric".

Regards,

Adam


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Re: free choice in installer?

Quoting Simon McVittie (2014-11-10 12:31:10)
> On 10/11/14 10:15, Michael Ole Olsen wrote:
>> If there was a choice in the installer for Init system and boot 
>> loader there would be nobody complaining.
>
> If I had to choose an init system and a boot loader during the normal 
> installation flow, I'd complain.

We have a default, so need not interrupt "the normal installation flow".

If we had the *option* of init system choice at install time (even if 
completely hidden from default UI only activated by a commandline 
option), I believe that would radically limit complaints.

 - Jonas

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Re: free choice in installer?

Hi,

Jonas Smedegaard:
> If we had the *option* of init system choice at install time (even if 
> completely hidden from default UI only activated by a commandline 
> option), I believe that would radically limit complaints.
> 
I doubt that, given the history of this discussion. :-/

In any case, we're frozen, so implementing this choice _now_ should be off
the table, IMHO.

-- 
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Re: free choice in installer?

Quoting Matthias Urlichs (2014-11-10 12:51:50)
> Jonas Smedegaard:
>> If we had the *option* of init system choice at install time (even if 
>> completely hidden from default UI only activated by a commandline 
>> option), I believe that would radically limit complaints.
>> 
> I doubt that, given the history of this discussion. :-/
>
> In any case, we're frozen, so implementing this choice _now_ should be 
> off the table, IMHO.

During freeze only severe bugs should be fixed.

You are free to consider lack of choice not a bug.

In any case, I did not talk about "now" nor about complaints completely 
disappearing.  I was trying to point out something constructive here.


 - Jonas

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Re: A concerned user -- debian Guidelines

2014-11-10 Thread The Wanderer

On 11/10/2014 at 04:37 AM, Jonathan Dowland wrote:

> Dear Nathael,
> 
> This is off-topic for -devel. Please consider debian-user or the
> offtopic list.
> 
> On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 09:57:50AM +0100, Nathael Pajani wrote:

>> Other distributions may have chosen the easy single init way, but
>> Debian is not other distributions. And uniformity is not an
>> option.
> 
> Debian has decided to support multiple init systems. Do you not know
> this? Have you been misled by the FUD? That's exactly what we're
> working on!

The trouble with this (line of) argument is that a large part of the
problem is that people disagree about the meaning of "support" in this
context, just as they disagree about the meaning of "default" in regard
to an init system.

Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, no one seems to be remotely
interested in trying to address or discuss that disagreement directly...
it only gets covered indirectly, in the midst of flamewars about the
broader topic. Which is far from an effective way to resolve the
question.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw

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Re: Release Team Sprint Results

On 11/09/2014 07:52 PM, Jonathan Wiltshire wrote:
> Our release managers chose the following codenames for future
> releases:
> 
>* Debian 9 "Stretch"
>* Debian 10 "Buster"

Thanks *A LOT* for choosing one more name in advance, so that we don't
have to file unblocks during the freeze to just add support for that.
It's also super cool to be able to talk about Buster rather than Jessie+2.

And by the way, Stretch will be super nice on t-shirts and all ! :)

Cheers,

Thomas Goirand (zigo)

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Re: A concerned user -- debian Guidelines

2014-11-10 Thread Dimitrios Chr. Ioannidis


Andrey Rahmatullin wrote:
But GNU/Linux is NOT uniformity. It is choice. It is alternatives. It 
is options.

http://islinuxaboutchoice.com/


Oh, the famous web site, crafted by the gnome dev Bassi, 
https://wiki.gnome.org/EmmanueleBassi, with which, BTW that IBM ad ( 
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xw3h3_ibm-red-hat-linux-commercial_fun 
), back at 2006, disagree.


Quote :

"Imagine a world without choice. Unnatural. Natural.
Imagine choice.
When simple elements create complex systems choice is multiplied. Power 
is distributed and the system finds the best way.

It's not the cells, it's the system.

Technology. Connected. Naturally.

Open Source = Freedom
Open Source = Power
Open Source = CHOICE

IBM Red Hat Linux "


Regards,
--
Dimitrios Chr. Ioannidis


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Re: A concerned user -- debian Guidelines

Hi,

The Wanderer:
> Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, no one seems to be remotely
> interested in trying to address or discuss that disagreement directly...

The problem is that, apparently, any 'support' short of "remove systemd
from Debian NOW" will not shut up the most vocal detractors.

> The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
> persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
> progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
> 
Interpreting this quote in light of our systemd discussion (<= this word
intentionally not quoted) is left as an exercise for the reader.

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Bug#768968: ITP: pyuca -- Python implementation of the Unicode Collation Algorithm (UTS-10)

2014-11-10 Thread Daniel Stender

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Daniel Stender 

* Package name: pyuca
  Version : 1.0
  Upstream Author : James Tauber 
* URL : https://github.com/jtauber/pyuca
* License : Expat, Unicode-TOU
  Programming Lang: Python
  Description : Python implementation of the Unicode Collation Algorithm 
(UTS-10)

This is a Python implementation of the UCA (Unicode Collation Algorithm) [1,2],
which provides features for the sorting of Unicode alphabets, e.g.
multiple leveling, contraction and expansion.

The module is written for Python 3, and the name of the binary package
would be python3-pyuca.

The upstream package includes pyuca/allkeys.txt (originally: unidata-6.3.0.txt),
which defines the Default Unicode Collation Element Table (DUCET), which
underlies the Unicode Terms of Use (Unicode-TOU) [3], which is listed
on the SPDX License list [4].

Daniel Stender

[1] http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr10/
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicode_collation_algorithm
[3] http://www.unicode.org/copyright.html
[4] http://spdx.org/licenses/


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Re: free choice in installer?

2014-11-10 Thread John Goerzen

On 11/10/2014 04:15 AM, Michael Ole Olsen wrote:
> If there was a choice in the installer for Init system and boot loader there 
> would be nobody complaining.
But here my point is to put it in perspective.  Somebody isn't going to
get their way on this, whether it be the system they prefer as default,
or level of possibility for using something different.

It doesn't matter that much.  Truly, it doesn't.  Jessie will still boot.

We have defaults for all sorts of things.  I probably grouse a little
when I'm on some bare system and it has nano but not vim.  Proper
reaction here: "*grumble*   oh well."  Use nano for the task at
hand, apt-get install vim-tiny, and move on.

>
> People only complain when there isn't a choice and they are forced to use 
> something new.
That attitude is the enemy of progress.  The history of Linux is a
history of people being forced to learn something new.  Or to put it a
better way, of people /getting/ to learn something new because of new
features.  Linux has added loadable modules, we have multiarch support
in Debian, we've added hardware autodetection, udev, ext[34], btrfs,
LVM, parted, SATA disks... the list goes on and on.  If everybody had an
immediate negative reaction to change, we'd all still be using DOS.

Perhaps what you mean is change without good reason.  I agree that can
be frustrating.  I think the debate here is whether there is good reason
for the change.  As we have seen, reasonable people disagree.

My intent with this message is not to advocate one position or the
other, but to suggest that although convictions run high, it's not worth
getting angry over.

>
> I.e.
> forced to use ext4 instead of ext3
>
> forced to use grub instead of lilo
>
> forced to use systemX instead of systemY
>
> forced to use GUI desktop crap when they want a server (ubuntu)
There is a cost to choice.  Perhaps that is part of what the discussion
is about: is it worth it?

Here are some more examples where there is no choice in Debian:

no python1.5 or python2.6 in jessie
emacs24 instead of emacs22
XOrg instead of XFree86
udev and initramfs pretty much must be installed by default
can't run it on a system with 16MB RAM (rex's stated hardware
requirements were 4MB RAM and 40MB disk)
can't install it from floppies
can't run it on an 80386 CPU

Some of these are, at first glance, regressions from earlier versions. 
There are reasons for this.  One is that it takes effort to maintain
lots of different options, and nobody has found it important enough to
put in all that effort.  Another is that certain options/requirements
(systems with only 4MB RAM) are so rare these days that trying to
support them would cause a lot of inconvenience and extra work for the
vast majority of users or developers.  For instance, initramfs and
loadable kernel modules give us hardware autodection that works better
than it does in Windows, and requiring a bit more than 4MB RAM is a
wonderfully small price to pay in today's world for that feature.

Some of the above were controversial at the time.  There are also plenty
of examples where there is abundant choice in Debian (architecture
support, filesystem support, desktop support, editors, web browers...
the list is vast.)

Again, this message is not about saying what option is preferable.  It
is about pointing out that reasonable people can have different
opinions.  And, most importantly, that what happens in the end is that
the project is still here, Debian still rocks, and the world moves on
(or at least ought to.)

John

Re: Please more fish (was: so long and thanks for all the fish)

2014-11-10 Thread Anthony Towns

Hey Joey,

On Sun, Nov 09, 2014 at 06:12:13PM -0400, Joey Hess wrote:
> Please take that message with a pound of salt. I was upset when I wrote
> it, it's probably not accurate, and I've left[1] for reasons that are
> much more broadly structural, and are certianly not the fault of the
> technical committee, or indeed of any one person.

I wonder if you could describe what you think made Debian of '96
awesome? I miss reading inspiring manifestos of how things are meant to
work in a hypothetical perfect world that makes everyone happy.

(For me, I'd say what was cool about Debian back in that day was it
was "an anarchic collaboration that's doing cool, useful things with
software". When I think about it, I usually conclude that Debian still
wins because everything else interesting seems way more structured
(ie, either corporate or benevolent dictator), but maybe if I like
"anarchic" then the collaboration should be more ad-hoc anyway, and
existing structures aren't relevant...)

> [1] Almost. Still need to orphan git-annex, git-repair, and github-backup.
>  #768516: (O: etckeeper -- store /etc in git, mercurial, bzr or darcs)

Planning on staying involved with those as upstream?

FWIW, you might want to consider retaining your DDship despite orphaning
everything, dropping any roles, unsubscribing from any mailing lists,
seceding from the constitution, etc. There's not much obligation in
keeping the account, and if you find yourself using some package that
needs a bug fix, being able to do an NMU is handy (presuming you're not
switching to a different distro, anyway). At least, I haven't had anyone
begrudge me keeping my account while not doing anything much.

(Also, can we contact your ego or superego directly via email too?)

Cheers,
aj

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Re: A concerned user -- debian Guidelines

Quoting Matthias Urlichs (2014-11-10 14:34:33)
> The Wanderer:
>> Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, no one seems to be remotely 
>> interested in trying to address or discuss that disagreement 
>> directly...
>
> The problem is that, apparently, any 'support' short of "remove 
> systemd from Debian NOW" will not shut up the most vocal detractors.

And "shut up the most vocal detractors" is only way to address or 
discuss this?


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private


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Re: free choice in installer?

2014-11-10 Thread Osamu Aoki

On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 12:51:50PM +0100, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Jonas Smedegaard:
> > If we had the *option* of init system choice at install time (even if 
> > completely hidden from default UI only activated by a commandline 
> > option), I believe that would radically limit complaints.
> > 
> I doubt that, given the history of this discussion. :-/
> 
> In any case, we're frozen, so implementing this choice _now_ should be off
> the table, IMHO.

Maybe adding low priority debconf may not be OK without discussion ...
(If this is pre-approved fixes, still OK until the 5th of January 2015,
though.  https://release.debian.org/jessie/freeze_policy.html)

The release note is still accepting updates as I understand.  If you
care, make a concise description for the pre-seed targeting this issue
and file a bug report with the patch to the release note.

Good luck.

Osamu

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Let's abandon debian-devel.

2014-11-10 Thread Charles Plessy

Hi all,

after unsubscribing from debian-vote, I had a bit of a thought about
debian-devel, which is hard to follow now, and suddenly I saw something very
clear.  This year's freeze seems of an excellent quality and promises to be
brief.  Is that thanks to debian-devel ?  Not much.  Excellent work is being
done on the Installer and is that thanks to debian-devel ?  Not much.  In 2010
when I was candidate to become DPL, I wrote that Debian was in growth crisis.
I think that it never has been so true.  Places like debian-devel, which can be
instrumental in smaller projects, are very toxic in larger ones.

>From now on I will try to see if I can give to Debian the same quality of
contribution without being subscribed to debian-devel.  And I invite you to
think about it and *not* to discuss it on this list.

With most of the work done on topic mailing lists, trolls lose the lever effect
they have when feasting on debian-devel or debian-vote.  Let's make our project
stronger by reducing thr attack surface for troublemakers.

Cheers,

-- 
Charles Plessy
Debian Med packaging team,
http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-med
Tsurumi, Kanagawa, Japan


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Re: Two years later and still no netatalk3 in jessie?

2014-11-10 Thread Hideki Yamane

On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 17:20:42 +0100
Adrian Knoth  wrote:
> 2012/10/11 - Hideki started working on a 3.0.1 package using dh style
> instead of cdbs, but it was declined because of Jonas' wish to stick
> with cdbs

 I'm sorry, if I was familiar with cdbs, its result would be changed... ;)


> But maybe, just maybe, at some point the maintainers should actually
> upload stuff?

 Let's put it into jessie-backports since backports is enabled by default
 in Jessie :)


-- 
Regards,

 Hideki Yamane henrich @ debian.or.jp/org
 http://wiki.debian.org/HidekiYamane


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Bug#768979: ITP: geoipupdate -- MaxMind GeoIP/GeoIP2 database updates

2014-11-10 Thread Faidon Liambotis

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Faidon Liambotis 

* Package name: geoipupdate
  Version : 2.1.0
  Upstream Author : MaxMind, Inc.
* URL : https://github.com/maxmind/geoipupdate
* License : GPL
  Programming Lang: C
  Description : MaxMind GeoIP/GeoIP2 database updates

The GeoIP Update program performs automatic updates of GeoIP2 and GeoIP
Legacy binary databases, as supplied by MaxMind. These are typically
paid products; for the free GeoLite databases, the packages
geoip-database or geoip-database-contrib can be installed instead.

This package replaces the "geoipupdate" functionality that used to be
part of the geoip-bin package but was removed starting with 1.6.0,
following upstream's split of the packages. The geoip-bin maintainer,
Patrick Matthäi, is already aware of the plans for this ITP. Compared to
geoip-bin, this will add GeoIP2 support, as supported by libmaxminddb,
#741199. Finally, since the only purpose of this package is to fetch
paid, binary databases from MaxMind, it will uploaded to the contrib
section of the archive.

Regards,
Faidon


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Re: Let's abandon debian-devel.

2014-11-10 Thread Paul Tagliamonte

On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 11:25:35PM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> after unsubscribing from debian-vote, I had a bit of a thought about
> debian-devel, which is hard to follow now, and suddenly I saw something very
> clear.  This year's freeze seems of an excellent quality and promises to be
> brief.  Is that thanks to debian-devel ?  Not much.  Excellent work is being
> done on the Installer and is that thanks to debian-devel ?  Not much.  In 2010
> when I was candidate to become DPL, I wrote that Debian was in growth crisis.
> I think that it never has been so true.  Places like debian-devel, which can 
> be
> instrumental in smaller projects, are very toxic in larger ones.


Yeah. I agree. I've been on VAC in life chaos (see d-private mail), and
not reading the devel threads has been pretty great. I think I might do
more of not reading it.

> >From now on I will try to see if I can give to Debian the same quality of
> contribution without being subscribed to debian-devel.  And I invite you to
> think about it and *not* to discuss it on this list.

+1

> With most of the work done on topic mailing lists, trolls lose the lever 
> effect
> they have when feasting on debian-devel or debian-vote.  Let's make our 
> project
> stronger by reducing thr attack surface for troublemakers.

+1

A lack of communication and collaboration is really bad, but right now
I'm getting *neither* in -devel. Until that changes, I think I'm with
plessy.

> Cheers,
> 
> -- 
> Charles Plessy
> Debian Med packaging team,
> http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-med
> Tsurumi, Kanagawa, Japan


Cheers,
  Paul

-- 
 .''`.  Paul Tagliamonte   |   Proud Debian Developer
: :'  : 4096R / 8F04 9AD8 2C92 066C 7352  D28A 7B58 5B30 807C 2A87
`. `'`  http://people.debian.org/~paultag
 `- http://people.debian.org/~paultag/conduct-statement.txt


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Re: free choice in installer?

2014-11-10 Thread Cyril Brulebois

Jonas Smedegaard  (2014-11-10):
> If we had the *option* of init system choice at install time (even if 
> completely hidden from default UI only activated by a commandline 
> option), I believe that would radically limit complaints.

We already have, Simon mentioned one way to do it.

You can also chroot into /target at any moment and do whatever you like
even before the first boot of the installed system.

We have important bugs to fix, and feature requests to implement. This
whole “init free choice” delirium is definitely not one of them.

KiBi.


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Re: free choice in installer?

2014-11-10 Thread Michael Banck

On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 11:31:10AM +, Simon McVittie wrote:
> If you have sufficiently specialized requirements that our recommended
> default is unsuitable, that's a good time to look into the "expert"
> installer mode, pre-seeding, or installing with the default
> init/bootloader/etc. and switching afterwards. For instance, for the
> init side of things, I did some testing at the weekend which confirms that
> 
> preseed/late_command="in-target apt-get install -y sysvinit-core"
> 
> does what you might expect.

Well, cool!

I suggest you blog about it or so, that this can get more widely cited
than just as a link to an obscure thread on -devel.


Michael


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Bug#768983: ITP: carbon-c-relay -- Carbon-compatible graphite line mode relay

2014-11-10 Thread Filippo Giunchedi

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Filippo Giunchedi 

* Package name: carbon-c-relay
  Version : 0.36
  Upstream Author : Fabian Groffen
* URL : https://github.com/grobian/carbon-c-relay
* License : Apache 2
  Programming Lang: C
  Description : Carbon-compatible graphite line mode relay

This project provides a multithreaded relay which can address multiple targets
and clusters for each and every metric based on pattern matches.
..
Consistent-hash routing compatible with the original carbon's implementation
is also provided. This relay also supports aggregation, failover of backend
servers and more.
..
Carbon is graphite's default storage backend and supports different protocols
for receiving metrics, this project aims to be a replacement of graphite's
original carbon-relay component and supports "plaintext" protocol metrics.


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Re: Please more fish (was: so long and thanks for all the fish)

2014-11-10 Thread Amaya

Christoph Anton Mitterer wrote:
> So you still could (and perhaps should[0]) reconsider not to leave
> Debian.
> Guess you've read the lists and saw how many people were emotionally
> hit and upset about this.

Joey, I beg you too. Please reconsider.
Still, if it's not fun anymore by all means run away as fast as you can,
but if this still can be fixed, let's try to.

I've told you privately how we met, maybe I didn't tell you how much it
meant to me (in a Debian inspiration way), so doing publicly so now.
It's just awful to see you go like this.

-- 
 .''`.The world breaks everyone, and afterward, some are
: :' :strong at the broken places.- Ernest Hemingway
`. `'   
  `-Proudly running Debian GNU/Linux

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Re: inconsistent versions of M-A: same packages

2014-11-10 Thread Guillem Jover

Hi!

On Sun, 2014-11-09 at 17:18:10 +0100, Johannes Schauer wrote:
> Quoting Ralf Treinen (2014-11-09 15:58:15)
> > Interesting, I did not know this. Is this documented somewhere? I just 
> > looked
> > through apt-get(1) man page and couldn't find it there.
> 
> it should definitely be documented in deb-control(5) but is not. I filed
> #768842.
> 
> Otherwise, this is documented in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MultiarchCross in
> sections "Cross-architecture dependencies" and "Toolchains". There is an
> ambiguity in the docs whether support for them was introduced in dpkg
> 1.16.2 or 1.16.7. Confusingly, support seems to have been implemented in dpkg
> git commit 7acf7afa which was released with version 1.16.5. In any case, 
> wheezy
> has 1.16.15, so it definitely supports this.

Yeah, that wiki is a bit confused. :any was introduced in
dpkg 1.16.2, : and :native in dpkg 1.16.5.

1.16.1.2 and 1.16.7 are not relevant at all, the first of which has
actually never existed. :)

In any case, I'm adding the version introduction information to the
above mentioned man page update.

Thanks,
Guillem


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Re: A concerned user -- debian Guidelines

2014-11-10 Thread Theodore Ts'o

On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 02:34:33PM +0100, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
> The Wanderer:
> > Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, no one seems to be remotely
> > interested in trying to address or discuss that disagreement directly...
> 
> The problem is that, apparently, any 'support' short of "remove systemd
> from Debian NOW" will not shut up the most vocal detractors.

There will always be some vocal detractors, and yes, there will be
absolutely no way to make the most radical people shut up.

Part of the problem is that there are people who are working on making
things less painful for those people who don't want to support
systemd, and even for people like my self who have resigned myself (or
at least am willing to use systemd on my laptop for now), but which
under no circumstances are willing to use GNOME[1].  However, these
efforts are on a best efforts basis, and no one is willing to make any
public commitment about what will and won't work in Jessie or
post-Jessie --- which is fair enough, because because this is a
volunteer project, and so it's not like any promise we could really
make anyway --- and if the GNOME folks yolk themselves even more
firmly to some new systemd extensions (for example, perhaps a future
version of network manager will blow up unless you use the systemd
replacement for cron or syslog), that's an upstream change, and we
can't rewrite all of upstream.

However, at this point, given that Jessie is frozen, I think it will
be possible soon to be able to make some statements about what will
and won't work with Jessie, vis-a-vis using either systemd or any
alternative init system, and even give instructions if someone wants
to install Jessie and then switch to an alternative init system.  And
I suspect even more importantly for many people, which alternative
desktops will work with systemd, and how to work around various
breakages that the switch to systemd might have engendered.  If we can
tell people that it's OK, Jessie isn't going to force you to switch to
GNOME 3, and if you want your text log files, you can keep your text
log files, etc., I think there will be a people (not the most vocal
detractors, admittedly) that will probably be reassured and less
fearful about what the New Systemd World Order will bring.

It may be that the release notes would be a very fine place for some
of this information, and it might be useful for dispelling many of the
myths that people who might not be using testing, and who know that
while things did get rocky for a bit, XFCE and other alternative
desktops work very well, thank you very much, will hopefully feel much
more reassured.

At that point, I suspect the remaining fears about what may break post
Jessie, as sytemd starts taking over even more low-level system
components, and perhaps all we can do there is some maintainers can
make declarations about what they are and aren't willing to do with
their volunteer time.  The future is always uncertain, and but I think
if we assume that people are fundamentally trying to trying to do the
right thing, and there will be people working to make most use cases
work at least as well --- and hopefully even better --- again, that
will hopefully reassure many people that Debian is really striving to
be a Universal OS, and not just a GNOME/Core OS, and that while some
things may break for a while, as long as their are volunteers
interested in fixing things --- and if not at Debian, where else? ---
in the long run All Will Be Well.

Cheers,

- Ted

[1] Well, I'd be willing to invest time to try GNOME again when 2-D
workspaces are supported as a first class feature (i.e., is something
where developers will try to avoid randomly breaking this feature on
every new GNOME release --- and indeed, the extensions which provided
for a 2-D workspace broke *again* with the most recent GNOME release,
and last I checked, were still not fixed.)  That's actually the
primary reason why I'm sticking with XFCE, BTW.  If I were reasonably
assured that GNOME wouldn't break my workfow on every release, I'd
certainly consider switching back.

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Re: A concerned user -- debian Guidelines

Hi,

Jonas Smedegaard:
> Quoting Matthias Urlichs (2014-11-10 14:34:33)
> > The problem is that, apparently, any 'support' short of "remove 
> > systemd from Debian NOW" will not shut up the most vocal detractors.
> 
> And "shut up the most vocal detractors" is only way to address or 
> discuss this?
> 
s/shut up/appease/ would admittedly have been a better choice of words.

Other than that, frankly: No, I can't think of another way.
Not after a year of these exchanges.

The old DOS error prompt comes to mind … Abort/Retry/Ignore …

-- 
-- Matthias Urlichs


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Bug#769000: ITP: hsenv -- Haskell virtual environment tool

2014-11-10 Thread Dmitry Bogatov

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Dmitry Bogatov 

* Package name: hsenv
  Version : 0.5
  Upstream Author : Bartosz Ćwikłowski
Taylor Hedberg 
* URL : https://github.com/tmhedberg/hsenv
* License : BSD
  Programming Lang: Haskell
  Description : Haskell virtual environment tool

hsenv is a tool (inspired by Python's virtualenv) to create isolated Haskell 
environments.

It creates a sandboxed environment in a .hsenv/ sub-directory
of your project, which, when activated, allows you to use regular Haskell tools
(ghc, ghci, ghc-pkg, cabal) to manage your Haskell code and environment.
It's possible to create an environment, that uses different GHC version
than your currently installed. Very simple emacs integration mode is included.

It is only tool of this kind (haskell virtualenv is deprecated and
recommends this one).  It allows me to safely install ghc-7.8 without
breaking system.  This tool allowed me to build `yi` text editor from
git and do not get mad. It gets ~1 release a year. I plan to handle
maintership of this package.


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Re: A concerned user -- debian Guidelines

2014-11-10 Thread The Wanderer

On 11/10/2014 at 08:34 AM, Matthias Urlichs wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> The Wanderer:
> 
>> Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, no one seems to be remotely
>> interested in trying to address or discuss that disagreement
>> directly...
> 
> The problem is that, apparently, any 'support' short of "remove
> systemd from Debian NOW" will not shut up the most vocal detractors.

The most extremist objectors, no, but I've seen very few people taking
that extreme of a position.

That wasn't my point, however; my point was about defining terminology
so that it is clear what is meant (and possibly finding terminology that
is not as readily subject to ambiguity or intentional
misinterpretation), not - or at least not immediately - about modifying
definitions to satisfy objectors.

>> The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
>> one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore
>> all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George
>> Bernard Shaw
>> 
> Interpreting this quote in light of our systemd discussion (<= this
> word intentionally not quoted) is left as an exercise for the
> reader.

The ambiguity as to which side of the discussion this supports is very
much intentional on my part. I personally think it probably supports
both of them, in different lights.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw

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Re: Let's abandon debian-devel.

2014-11-10 Thread David L. Craig

On 14Nov10:2325+0900, Charles Plessy wrote:

> With most of the work done on topic mailing lists, trolls lose the lever 
> effect
> they have when feasting on debian-devel or debian-vote.  Let's make our 
> project
> stronger by reducing thr attack surface for troublemakers.

But weaker by becoming more non-public?  At what point
is the Social Contract undermined?  What about transforming
those lists into readable by all but open only to
certain responsible posters instead?
-- 

May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly!

Dave_Craig__
"So the universe is not quite as you thought it was.
 You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then.
 Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe."
__--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_

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Re: free choice in installer?

Quoting Cyril Brulebois (2014-11-10 15:57:06)
> Jonas Smedegaard  (2014-11-10):
>> If we had the *option* of init system choice at install time (even if 
>> completely hidden from default UI only activated by a commandline 
>> option), I believe that would radically limit complaints.
>
> We already have, Simon mentioned one way to do it.

Right, I can non-declaratively do whatever - including instruct 
debian-installer to install one init system _and_ another one replacing 
it.


> You can also chroot into /target at any moment and do whatever you 
> like even before the first boot of the installed system.

Right, I can do whatever whenever.


> We have important bugs to fix, and feature requests to implement. This 
> whole “init free choice” delirium is definitely not one of them.

Right, I forgot: Debian is not the universal operating system.  Bugs 
about choice are not important to fix.


 - Jonas

Clearly delirious.

-- 
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Re: REISSUED CfV: General Resolution: Init system coupling

2014-11-10 Thread Neil McGovern

On Thu, Nov 06, 2014 at 04:12:20PM +0100, Julian Andres Klode wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 06, 2014 at 04:10:13PM +0100, Julian Andres Klode wrote:
> > On Tue, Nov 04, 2014 at 11:53:43PM +, Neil McGovern wrote:
> > > - - -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> > > 57dd4d7c-3e92-428f-8ab7-10de5172589e
> > > [ 5 ] Choice 1: Packages may not (in general) require a specific init 
> > > system
> > > [ 2 ] Choice 2: Support for other init systems is recommended, but not 
> > > mandatory
> > > [ 1 ] Choice 3: Packages may require specific init systems if maintainers 
> > > decide
> > > [ 3 ] Choice 4: General Resolution is not required
> > > [ 4 ] Choice 5: Further Discussion
> > > - - -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> > 
> > 
> Ouch, that got send to the wrong address. :(
> 
> Neil: There was no Reply-To set in the reissued call for votes :(
> 

Indeed, unfortunately so. Given the rather rushed nature though, it
would be nice to try and work out a way of avoiding having to do this
manual action in future. I'm currently working from
http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/users/neilm/devotee.git/ if anyone
fancies adding extra support to devotee.

Neil
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Re: Jessie Freeze -> What is the next release name? (jessie+1)

2014-11-10 Thread Neil McGovern

On Sun, Nov 09, 2014 at 10:23:01AM +0100, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Osamu Aoki:
> > I thought usually this type of announcement comes with next release
> > name.
> > 
> > I was going to update web site (later) and debian-reference package (in
> > November) in proper timing.  Did I miss some announcement? 
> > 
> See the debian-devel archives from mid-Fenruary 2014. According to Neil
> McGovern, the code name shall be "zurg".
> 
> >>> https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/02/msg00905.html
> 
> While that was in no way official, at the time it kindof struck a chord,
> so I'd like us to just go with it.
> 
> After all the init/GR/what-have-you brouhaha, we can do with some levity. :-)
> 

Also, please see the footnote in my mail above.

Neil
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Re: What is the policy on audio group? and, proposal of a new group for the jack audio server

2014-11-10 Thread Kaj Ailomaa

I would assume the way to go forward would be to report a bug on this?
I have a faint memory of there already being one, but I couldn't find it
anywhere. Also, my last bug report got closed - and I'm not even sure
what to report it against (base?).
Perhaps someone else would be more competent at writing one, or could
provide some tips for me on how to do it?

Seems to me there's somewhat an agreement on that audio group should
stay, but "regular" user accounts should not be in it by default. This
is the way many other distros do.

Also, the main reason why I bring this up is on account of the jack
audio server. The jackd1/jackd2 package assumes the user is a member of
audio group, which is key in getting realtime privilege for the user who
installs jack. Jack installs a file in /etc/security/limits.d, granting
rtprio and memlock to audio group.
Whenever I bring this up, someone tells me that we should use something
else, like rt-kit, or using cgroups (which I have been experimenting
with lately, but was unable to get to work for some reason - I can
provide more info if someone is interested).
Though this is a bit premature, until we can provide another solution,
and if the user is made to not be default member of audio group, I would
like it if there was a new group specifically for jack.

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Re: REISSUED CfV: General Resolution: Init system coupling

2014-11-10 Thread Ian Jackson

Neil McGovern writes ("Re: REISSUED CfV: General Resolution: Init system 
coupling"):
> Indeed, unfortunately so. Given the rather rushed nature though, it
> would be nice to try and work out a way of avoiding having to do this
> manual action in future. I'm currently working from
> http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/users/neilm/devotee.git/ if anyone
> fancies adding extra support to devotee.

I have a half-written series to make it cope with lettered, rather
than numbered, options.  Would it be worth my while finishing that off
(in my CFT) ?

Ian.


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Re: REISSUED CfV: General Resolution: Init system coupling

2014-11-10 Thread Santiago Vila

On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 06:12:46PM +, Ian Jackson wrote:
> I have a half-written series to make it cope with lettered, rather
> than numbered, options.  Would it be worth my while finishing that off
> (in my CFT) ?

The voting process is already complex enough. If it is going to be like this:

GR Proposal: Option A.
Amendment A: Option B.
Amendment B: Option C.

we might better stick with numbered options.


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Re: A plea to worry about what matters, and not take ourselves too seriously

2014-11-10 Thread Jakub Wilk


* John Goerzen , 2014-11-09, 19:09:
14 years ago, I proposed what was, until now anyhow, one of the most 
controversial GRs in Debian history.


For people who are curious but too lazy^H^H^H^Hbusy to comb through 
debian-vote archives: John is most likely referring to this:

https://lists.debian.org/87d7lu2n9d@complete.org

--
Jakub Wilk


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Re: REISSUED CfV: General Resolution: Init system coupling

2014-11-10 Thread Neil McGovern

On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 06:12:46PM +, Ian Jackson wrote:
> Neil McGovern writes ("Re: REISSUED CfV: General Resolution: Init system 
> coupling"):
> > Indeed, unfortunately so. Given the rather rushed nature though, it
> > would be nice to try and work out a way of avoiding having to do this
> > manual action in future. I'm currently working from
> > http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/users/neilm/devotee.git/ if anyone
> > fancies adding extra support to devotee.
> 
> I have a half-written series to make it cope with lettered, rather
> than numbered, options.  Would it be worth my while finishing that off
> (in my CFT) ?
> 

I think that would probably be helpful, yes! Not only in the case where
we get more than 9 options on the ballot, but I also think it would help
clarify some of the voting options when you're ranking options.

Neil


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Re: REISSUED CfV: General Resolution: Init system coupling

2014-11-10 Thread Kurt Roeckx

On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 06:12:46PM +, Ian Jackson wrote:
> Neil McGovern writes ("Re: REISSUED CfV: General Resolution: Init system 
> coupling"):
> > Indeed, unfortunately so. Given the rather rushed nature though, it
> > would be nice to try and work out a way of avoiding having to do this
> > manual action in future. I'm currently working from
> > http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/users/neilm/devotee.git/ if anyone
> > fancies adding extra support to devotee.
> 
> I have a half-written series to make it cope with lettered, rather
> than numbered, options.  Would it be worth my while finishing that off
> (in my CFT) ?

I've heard from Manoj that he also has been working on devotee
2.0, but I can't find it.

I've also been wondering about end-to-end auditable voting like
heliosvoting or civistas.  But I didn't have time yet to really
look at it.


Kurt


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Re: Jessie Freeze -> What is the next release name? (jessie+1)

Hi,

Neil McGovern:
> Also, please see the footnote in my mail above.
> 
Indeed.

Some lies become truths if repeated often enough.
This one, apparently, was not.

Too bad, really.

But no matter. Zurg's time will come. :-P

-- 
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Re: Let's abandon debian-devel.

2014-11-10 Thread Gergely Nagy

> "David" == David L Craig  writes:

David> On 14Nov10:2325+0900, Charles Plessy wrote:
>> With most of the work done on topic mailing lists, trolls lose the lever 
effect
>> they have when feasting on debian-devel or debian-vote.  Let's make our 
project
>> stronger by reducing thr attack surface for troublemakers.

David> But weaker by becoming more non-public?  At what point
David> is the Social Contract undermined?  What about transforming
David> those lists into readable by all but open only to
David> certain responsible posters instead?

You do realize topic lists are public too, right?

-- 
|8]

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Re: Release Team Sprint Results

2014-11-10 Thread Steve Langasek

Hi Jonathan,

On Sun, Nov 09, 2014 at 11:52:31AM +, Jonathan Wiltshire wrote:

> Release notes
> =

> We seek patches and editors for the release notes. We identified
> the following topics as being particularly important:
> 
>    - init system changes
>  - How to choose (before upgrading)
>  - Pros / cons of "upgrading"
>    - i486 support dropped

I'm rather certain that i486 hasn't been supported in Debian for at least
the past 4 years (and probably much longer, my memory is fuzzy; but as a
data point, https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2011/11/msg00687.html).
Why is this on the release team's radar as something that needs to be
documented in the release notes for jessie?

-- 
Steve Langasek   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer   to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/
slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org

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Re: Release Team Sprint Results

2014-11-10 Thread Adam D. Barratt

[re-adding -devel@]

On Mon, 2014-11-10 at 21:20 +, Adam D. Barratt wrote:
> On Mon, 2014-11-10 at 13:08 -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
> > Hi Jonathan,
> > 
> > On Sun, Nov 09, 2014 at 11:52:31AM +, Jonathan Wiltshire wrote:
> [...]
> > >- i486 support dropped
> > 
> > I'm rather certain that i486 hasn't been supported in Debian for at least
> > the past 4 years (and probably much longer, my memory is fuzzy; but as a
> > data point, https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2011/11/msg00687.html).
> > Why is this on the release team's radar as something that needs to be
> > documented in the release notes for jessie?
> 
> I believe this was intended as a reference to this change in the latest
> Linux kernel upload:
> 
>   * [i386] Rename 486 flavour to 586, as it has not worked on 486
> processors since we enabled CC_STACKPROTECTOR (Closes: #766105)
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Adam



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Re: Let's abandon debian-devel.

2014-11-10 Thread David L. Craig

On 14Nov10:2154+0100, Gergely Nagy wrote:

> You do realize topic lists are public too, right?

Yes, but most Debian users don't even know about
them nor do they need to since the traditional
lists have been doing their jobs for quite a
while.  If you shut them down, I expect most of
the public will not find the topic lists.
-- 

May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly!

Dave_Craig__
"So the universe is not quite as you thought it was.
 You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then.
 Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe."
__--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_


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Re: Let's abandon debian-devel.

2014-11-10 Thread Scott Kitterman

On Monday, November 10, 2014 04:55:20 PM David L. Craig wrote:
> On 14Nov10:2154+0100, Gergely Nagy wrote:
> > You do realize topic lists are public too, right?
> 
> Yes, but most Debian users don't even know about
> them nor do they need to since the traditional
> lists have been doing their jobs for quite a
> while.  If you shut them down, I expect most of
> the public will not find the topic lists.

Except, of course, for the ones reading d-devel now (which includes the 
claimed problematic group).  Ubuntu had to moderate posting rights on their 
main -devel list years ago and it improved the climate considerably.  Might be 
something to consider that's short of giving up.

Scott K

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Re: Release Team Sprint Results

2014-11-10 Thread Steve Langasek

On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 09:33:07PM +, Adam D. Barratt wrote:
> [re-adding -devel@]

> On Mon, 2014-11-10 at 21:20 +, Adam D. Barratt wrote:
> > On Mon, 2014-11-10 at 13:08 -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
> > > Hi Jonathan,

> > > On Sun, Nov 09, 2014 at 11:52:31AM +, Jonathan Wiltshire wrote:
> > [...]
> > > >- i486 support dropped

> > > I'm rather certain that i486 hasn't been supported in Debian for at least
> > > the past 4 years (and probably much longer, my memory is fuzzy; but as a
> > > data point, https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2011/11/msg00687.html).
> > > Why is this on the release team's radar as something that needs to be
> > > documented in the release notes for jessie?

> > I believe this was intended as a reference to this change in the latest
> > Linux kernel upload:

> >   * [i386] Rename 486 flavour to 586, as it has not worked on 486
> > processors since we enabled CC_STACKPROTECTOR (Closes: #766105)

Ok, well, given that Debian didn't work on 486 for years before that, I
think this is a non-event that doesn't need to be release-noted.

  "However, given that this fatal bug has not (so far as I know) been
  reported in the 5 years since it was introduced in unstable, I suspect
  you're one of a very few people still using Debian on a 486, and you may
  find many other things broken."

  https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=766105#28

-- 
Steve Langasek   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer   to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/
slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org


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Re: Release Team Sprint Results

2014-11-10 Thread Jonathan Wiltshire


On 2014-11-10 22:01, Steve Langasek wrote:

On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 09:33:07PM +, Adam D. Barratt wrote:

[re-adding -devel@]



On Mon, 2014-11-10 at 21:20 +, Adam D. Barratt wrote:
> On Mon, 2014-11-10 at 13:08 -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
> > Hi Jonathan,



> > On Sun, Nov 09, 2014 at 11:52:31AM +, Jonathan Wiltshire wrote:
> [...]
> > >- i486 support dropped



> > I'm rather certain that i486 hasn't been supported in Debian for at least
> > the past 4 years (and probably much longer, my memory is fuzzy; but as a
> > data point, https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2011/11/msg00687.html).
> > Why is this on the release team's radar as something that needs to be
> > documented in the release notes for jessie?



> I believe this was intended as a reference to this change in the latest
> Linux kernel upload:



>   * [i386] Rename 486 flavour to 586, as it has not worked on 486
> processors since we enabled CC_STACKPROTECTOR (Closes: #766105)




Yes, that matches my recollection. (Our notes on this are pretty rough, 
and what's in that mail is nearly verbatim from the notes, so...)



Ok, well, given that Debian didn't work on 486 for years before that, I
think this is a non-event that doesn't need to be release-noted.


That sounds reasonable.

Thanks!

--
Jonathan Wiltshire  j...@debian.org
Debian Developer http://people.debian.org/~jmw

4096R: 0xD3524C51 / 0A55 B7C5 1223 3942 86EC  74C3 5394 479D D352 4C51

 i have six years of solaris sysadmin experience, from
8->10. i am well qualified to say it is made from bonghits
layered on top of bonghits


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Re: Release Team Sprint Results

2014-11-10 Thread Andreas Barth

* Steve Langasek (vor...@debian.org) [141110 23:06]:
> On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 09:33:07PM +, Adam D. Barratt wrote:
> > [re-adding -devel@]
> 
> > On Mon, 2014-11-10 at 21:20 +, Adam D. Barratt wrote:
> > > On Mon, 2014-11-10 at 13:08 -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
> > > > Hi Jonathan,
> 
> > > > On Sun, Nov 09, 2014 at 11:52:31AM +, Jonathan Wiltshire wrote:
> > > [...]
> > > > >- i486 support dropped
> 
> > > > I'm rather certain that i486 hasn't been supported in Debian for at 
> > > > least
> > > > the past 4 years (and probably much longer, my memory is fuzzy; but as a
> > > > data point, 
> > > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2011/11/msg00687.html).
> > > > Why is this on the release team's radar as something that needs to be
> > > > documented in the release notes for jessie?
> 
> > > I believe this was intended as a reference to this change in the latest
> > > Linux kernel upload:
> 
> > >   * [i386] Rename 486 flavour to 586, as it has not worked on 486
> > > processors since we enabled CC_STACKPROTECTOR (Closes: #766105)
> 
> Ok, well, given that Debian didn't work on 486 for years before that, I
> think this is a non-event that doesn't need to be release-noted.

Well, I think the reference was mostly "what we might need to
document". If nobody noticed that, then well, you are right, and
perhaps we don't need to document that. (Technically it was still
input to the release notes, which however was then ignored.)



Andi


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Re: A plea to worry about what matters, and not take ourselves too seriously

2014-11-10 Thread John Goerzen

On 11/10/2014 02:13 AM, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> On Sun, 09 Nov 2014, John Goerzen wrote:
>> Debian is a making-the-world-better project, a caring for people
>> project, a freedom-spreading project.   Free Software is our tool.
> [...]
>> My plea is that we each may get angry at what matters, and let go of the
>> smaller frustrations in life; that we may each find something more
>> important than init/systemd to derive enjoyment and meaning from. [5]
> Thank you for your message.
>
> It might not be what I was thinking when I joined Debian but over time
> it has became clear to me that there's more than just having fun building
> the best operating system, though this is still a core motivation
> and we should be very cautious to not destroy the fun others are having,
> even when when we don't share their opinions.
Thanks, Raphael.

This is a really important point that is easy to lose.  I probably am
guilty of that from time to time myself.

Sometimes there is a cost to being right, or to convincing others to
follow what you want - the risk of taking the fun out of a volunteer
project, of alienating people that feel otherwise.  It is hard to judge,
especially with a project made up of people that rarely see each other
in person.

When a bunch of technical people get together as volunteers to build
something, it takes both technical and social skill to complete the
job.  We put the former on a high pedestal with good reason, but
sometimes neglect the latter.

We clearly have a lot of work to do, but we have also come a long way. 
Some of us remember the days before an elected DPL, or before we took a
strong stance against poisonous people on our mailing lists, and I can
assure everyone that this project has made a lot of social changes that
we should be proud of.

And we have a lot more that needs to be done, too.

John

>
> To all the persons who are going to be disappointed, please follow John's
> advice or find a better way to channel your anger into something positive
> (either in Debian or somewhere else, it's not a big deal). Don't use it
> against other Debian contributors, because you would only contribute
> to destroy what we have built together.
>
> Cheers,

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Re: A concerned user -- debian Guidelines

2014-11-10 Thread Wouter Verhelst

On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 09:57:50AM +0100, Nathael Pajani wrote:
> You certainly heard about "debianfork" (http://debianfork.org/) and from a 
> user point of
> view this is a tragedy.

Not really. Forking is good, and should be encouraged. In fact, Debian
is one of the most forked projects, ever, according to 

http://distrowatch.com/search.php?ostype=All&category=All&origin=All&basedon=Debian¬basedon=None&desktop=All&architecture=All&status=Active

which currently lists 137 forks (not all of them directly Debian forks,
though)

If people want to fork Debian over systemd, they should just *do* so,
rather than whining about it and annoying the hell out of everyone. The
former is constructive, the latter is not.

-- 
It is easy to love a country that is famous for chocolate and beer

  -- Barack Obama, speaking in Brussels, Belgium, 2014-03-26

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Re: Bug#768772: ITP: xkcdpass -- secure passphrase generator inspired by XKCD 936

2014-11-10 Thread Ben Finney

Jonas Smedegaard  writes:

> [adding bugreport as recipient]

Thanks. I need to be more careful in accessing Debian discussion
forums; I usually do so via via NNTP.

> curious questions for your xkcdpass tool:
>
>   * Does it handle alternate dictionaries (e.g. danish)?
>   * Does it handle massaging dictionary (e.g. strip profanities)?

The tool comes with a default wordlist, but can be instructed via a
command-line option to use any correctly-formatted wordlist the user
chooses.

So, yes, it allows the above if the user points it to an existing
wordlist.

-- 
 \ “Education is learning what you didn't even know you didn't |
  `\  know.” —Daniel J. Boorstin, historian, 1914–2004 |
_o__)  |
Ben Finney 

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Removing duplication: Word lists of common words in languages (was: Bug#768772: ITP: xkcdpass …)

2014-11-10 Thread Ben Finney

On 10-Nov-2014, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:

> Crypt::XkcdPassword by default uses "the most commonly used words in
> film scripts and television shows", and documents examples of
> adaptations at .

Thank you, it's good to know these exist.

I don't find, in the Crypt::XkcdPassword code tree, any documentation
showing where the word lists come from nor how they were computed.

To avoid duplicating these “the N most common words, ranked by
frequency, for language FOO”, it might be better to have simple data
packages in Debian, sourced from appropriate data expertly collected.

Where should such data be sourced from?

--
 \ “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of |
  `\men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good |
_o__)   of everyone.” —John Maynard Keynes |
Ben Finney 

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Re: Let's abandon debian-devel.

2014-11-10 Thread Philipp Kern


On 2014-11-10 18:20, David L. Craig wrote:

On 14Nov10:2325+0900, Charles Plessy wrote:

With most of the work done on topic mailing lists, trolls lose the 
lever effect
they have when feasting on debian-devel or debian-vote.  Let's make 
our project

stronger by reducing thr attack surface for troublemakers.


But weaker by becoming more non-public?  At what point
is the Social Contract undermined?  What about transforming
those lists into readable by all but open only to
certain responsible posters instead?


wat. I think you missed the point Plessy tried to make. (Or exemplified 
it?)


Discussions should move to the appropriate venues (like bugs and 
focussed lists for subprojects, maintainance lists) instead of providing 
a soapbox of anger.


Kind regards
Philipp Kern


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Re: Let's abandon debian-devel.

2014-11-10 Thread David L. Craig

On 14Nov11:0036+0100, Philipp Kern wrote:

> On 2014-11-10 18:20, David L. Craig wrote:
> >
> >But weaker by becoming more non-public?  At what point
> >is the Social Contract undermined?  What about transforming
> >those lists into readable by all but open only to
> >certain responsible posters instead?
> 
> wat. I think you missed the point Plessy tried to make.
> (Or exemplified it?)

Pardon me, but did you just publicly suggest I'm a
troublemaker?
-- 

May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly!

Dave_Craig__
"So the universe is not quite as you thought it was.
 You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then.
 Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe."
__--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_

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Re: Bug#768936: ITP: nufft -- Library implementing the Non-Uniform Fast Fourier Transform

2014-11-10 Thread Chris Bannister

On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 10:21:33AM +, Ghislain Antony Vaillant wrote:
> Package: wnpp
> Severity: wishlist
> Owner: Ghislain Antony Vaillant 
> 
> * Package name: nufft
>   Version : 1.3.3
>   Upstream Author : Leslie Greengard 
> * URL : http://www.cims.nyu.edu/cmcl/nufft/nufft.html
> * License : BSD
>   Programming Lang: FORTRAN
>   Description : Library implementing the Non-Uniform Fast Fourier 
> Transform
> 
> Implementation of the Non-Uniform Fast Fourier Transform (NUFFT) coded in 
> FORTRAN using a fast, procedural, algorithm. 
> 
> Compared to existingly packaged solutions, like the NFFT library, the NUFFT 
> provides Octave (and MATLAB) compatible bindings. Because of the procedural 
> implementation, usage of the NUFFT is more straightforward. However, it lacks 
> support for high dimensionality than 3 and support for precomputation in case 
  ^^
I think that would be better worded as "dimensions greater than three"
or similar.

-- 
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing." --- Malcolm X


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Bug#769062: ITP: puppet-module-puppetlabs-vcsrepo -- Puppet module to deploy content from a version control system

2014-11-10 Thread Jordan Metzmeier

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Jordan Metzmeier 

* Package name: puppet-module-puppetlabs-vcsrepo
  Version : 1.2.0
  Upstream Author : Bruce Williams 
* URL : https://forge.puppetlabs.com/puppetlabs/vcsrepo
* License : GPL-2+
  Programming Lang: Ruby
  Description : Puppet module to deploy content from a version control 
system

Puppet lets you centrally manage every important aspect of your system using a 
cross-platform
specification language that manages all the separate elements normally 
aggregated in different
files, like users, cron jobs, and hosts, along with obviously discrete elements 
like packages,
services, and files.

This module allows you to deploy content from a version control system. The 
following version
control systems are supported:

 * Git
 * Bazaar
 * CVS
 * Mercurial
 * Perforce
 * Subversion


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Bug#769063: ITP: apertium-apy -- Apertium APY service

2014-11-10 Thread Kartik Mistry

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Kartik Mistry 

* Package name: apertium-apy
  Version : 0.1
  Upstream Author : Universidad de Alicante / Prompsit Language Engineering S.L.
* URL : http://apertium.org/
* License : GPL-2+
  Programming Lang: Python
  Description : Apertium APY service

This package contains Apertium APY which is simple Apertium
API written in Python 3 meant as a drop-in replacement for
ScaleMT.

 - why is this package useful/relevant? is it a dependency for
   another package? do you use it? if there are other packages
   providing similar functionality, how does it compare?

   A: Apertium is along with standalone installation, largely useful
   as a "service". Apertium-APY is optimized to be use in service and
   quite useful while building service for Machine Translation.

 - how do you plan to maintain it? inside a packaging team
   (check list at https://wiki.debian.org/Teams)? are you
   looking for co-maintainers? do you need a sponsor?

   A: Debian-Science team.

-- 
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{0x1f1f, kartikm}.wordpress.com


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Re: Let's abandon debian-devel.