Bug#757325: ITP: python-oslo.utils -- set of utility functions for OpenStack
Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist Owner: Thomas Goirand * Package name: python-oslo.utils Version : 0.1.1 Upstream Author : OpenStack Development Mailing List * URL : https://github.com/openstack/oslo.utils * License : Apache-2.0 Programming Lang: Python Description : set of utility functions for OpenStack The Oslo.utils package provides a set of function which are cross-project for OpenStack. For example, it provides text decoding, exception handling, Python module import facility (try_import function), network-related system-level, and time utilities and helper functions. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140807081130.31722.78808.report...@buzig.gplhost.com
Bugs which do not belong to console-setup
[I am not subscribed to debian-devel.] Hi! I have two bugs reported against console-setup about keybord not working properly under X Window. In both cases I have asked the reportes to provide the file /etc/default/keyboard and in both cases the file was correct. Therefore, the bugs are not related to console-setup in any way. Unfortunately X Window and the various desktop environments are something I don't understand well enough, so I have no idea where to reassign these bugs. In result, at the moment both bugs are completely ignored. Please advise what should I do in such cases. The bugs are: #709883 - reported 14 months ago and #724869 - reported 10 months ago. Anton Zinoviev -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140807103238.gb6...@debian.lan
Re: Bugs which do not belong to console-setup
Anton Zinoviev (2014-08-07): > Hi! > > I have two bugs reported against console-setup about keybord not working > properly under X Window. In both cases I have asked the reportes to > provide the file /etc/default/keyboard and in both cases the file was > correct. Therefore, the bugs are not related to console-setup in any > way. > > Unfortunately X Window and the various desktop environments are > something I don't understand well enough, so I have no idea where to > reassign these bugs. In result, at the moment both bugs are completely > ignored. > > Please advise what should I do in such cases. > > The bugs are: > #709883 - reported 14 months ago and #724869 - reported 10 months ago. As a general rule (and without looking at those particular bug reports), back when I maintained X, I asked reporters to run a bare X session, meaning without a display manager and without a desktop session. gdm3 (or whatever component behind, handling settings) has been the culprit several times already, replacing the system settings with other settings based on user language. (See #590534 for an old example.) Comparing the output of "setxkbmap -print" from a bare X session and from $desktop_environment is usually a nice place to start from. Mraw, KiBi. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: ifupdown2 by Cumulus Networks
On 08/06/2014 03:21 AM, Vincent Bernat wrote: > Hey! > > Cumulus Networks is using Debian as a base and has produced "ifupdown2", > a "compatible" replacement for ifupdown written in Python: > https://github.com/CumulusNetworks/ifupdown2/tree/master/ifupdown2 > > They maintain a state of what is done and apply changes incrementally to > avoid any disruption. This is quite interesting. Has anyone worked with > them on that? > > I know the main author. May I propose him to package it in Debian? The entire repository has just 4 commits. -- Given the large number of mailing lists I follow, I request you to CC me in replies for quicker response -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/cf7cbb-n5j@news.researchut.com
Re: ifupdown2 by Cumulus Networks
❦ 7 août 2014 17:49 +0530, Ritesh Raj Sarraf : >> Cumulus Networks is using Debian as a base and has produced "ifupdown2", >> a "compatible" replacement for ifupdown written in Python: >> https://github.com/CumulusNetworks/ifupdown2/tree/master/ifupdown2 >> >> They maintain a state of what is done and apply changes incrementally to >> avoid any disruption. This is quite interesting. Has anyone worked with >> them on that? >> >> I know the main author. May I propose him to package it in Debian? > > > The entire repository has just 4 commits. Yes. This is common for an internal project being published for the first time. Either, they don't want to clean the internal git history or git wasn't used during the development. -- /* * For moronic filesystems that do not allow holes in file. * We may have to extend the file. */ 2.4.0-test2 /usr/src/linux/fs/buffer.c signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Bug#757376: ITP: python-arrow -- A comprehensive Python library to manipulate dates, times, and timestamps.
Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist Owner: Federico Ceratto * Package name: python-arrow Version : 0.4.2 Upstream Author : Chris Smith * URL : http://crsmithdev.com/arrow/ * License : Apache Programming Lang: Python Description : A comprehensive Python library to manipulate dates, times, and timestamps. Arrow is a Python library that offers a sensible, human-friendly approach to creating, manipulating, formatting and converting dates, times, and timestamps. It implements and updates the datetime type, plugging gaps in functionality, and provides an intelligent module API that supports many common creation scenarios. Arrow replaces a number of modules: datetime, time, calendar, dateutil, pytz -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140807140858.9008.39735.reportbug@localhost
Bug#757385: ITP: libdbi-test-perl -- test suite for the DBI API
Package: wnpp Owner: gregor herrmann Severity: wishlist X-Debbugs-CC: debian-devel@lists.debian.org,debian-p...@lists.debian.org * Package name: libdbi-test-perl Version : 0.001 Upstream Author : Jens Rehsack * URL : https://metacpan.org/release/DBI-Test * License : Artistic or GPL-1+ Programming Lang: Perl Description : test suite for the DBI API DBI::Test aims to be a test suite for the DBI API and an underlying DBD driver, to check if the provided functionality is working and complete. Part of this module is the ability for self-testing using DBI::Mock. This is not designed to be another DBI::PurePerl - it's designed to allow tests can be verified to work as expected in a sandbox. This is, of course, limited to DBI API itself and cannot load any driver nor really execute any action. signature.asc Description: Digital Signature
Reverting to GNOME for jessie's default desktop
Hi Debian, It's been around 9 months since tasksel changed (for real) the default desktop for new installs. At the time of the change, it was mentioned the issue would be revisited before the freeze, around debconf time. Well, it's roughly that time. :) So I'd like to plainly request GNOME is reinstated as the default desktop environment for a number of reasons. Accessibility: GNOME continues to be the only free desktop environment that provides full accessibility coverage, right from login screen. While it’s true GNOME 3.0 was lacking in many areas, and GNOME 3.4 (which we shipped in wheezy) was just barely acceptable thanks to some last minute GDM fixes, GNOME 3.12 should have ironed out all of the issues and our non-expert understanding is that a11y support is now on par with what GNOME 2.30 from squeeze offered. Downstream health: The number of active members in the team taking care of GNOME in Debian is around 5-10 persons, while it is 1-2 in the case of Xfce. Being the default desktop draws a lot of attention (and bug reports) that only a bigger team might have the resources to handle. Upstream health: While GNOME is still committed to its time-based release schedule and ships new versions every 6 months, Xfce upstream is, unfortunately, struggling a bit more to keep up with new plumbing technology. Only very recently it has regained support to suspend/hibernate via logind, or support for Bluez 5.x, for example. Community: GNOME is one of the biggest free software projects, and is lucky to have created an ecosystem of developers, documenters, translators and users that interact regularly in a live social community. Users and developers gather in hackfests and big, annual conferences like GUADEC, the Boston Summit, or GNOME.Asia. Only KDE has a comparable community, the rest of the free desktop projects don’t have the userbase or manpower to sustain communities like this. Localization: Localization is more extensive and complete in GNOME. Xfce has 18 languages above 95% of coverage, and 2 at 100% (excluding English), GNOME has 28 languages above 95%, 9 of them being complete (excluding English). Documentation: Documentation coverage is extensive in GNOME, with most of the core applications providing localized, up to date and complete manuals, available in an accessible format via the Help reader. Hardware: GNOME 3.12 will be one of the few desktop environments to support HiDPI displays, now very common on some laptop models. Lack of support for HiDPI means non-technical users will get an unreadable desktop by default, and no hints on how to fix that. Security: GNOME is more secure. There are no processes launched with root permissions on the user’s session. All everyday operations (package management, disk partitioning and formatting, date/time configuration…) are accomplished through PolicyKit wrappers. Privacy: One of the latest focuses of GNOME development is improving privacy, and work is being done to make it easy to run GNOME applications in isolated containers, integrate Tor seamlessly in the desktop experience, better disk encryption support and other features that should make GNOME a more secure desktop environment for end users. Popularity: One of the metrics discussed by the tasksel change proponents mentioned popcon numbers. 8 months after the desktop change, Xfce does not seem to have made a dent on install numbers. The Debian GNOME team doesn’t feel popcon’s data is any better than a random online poll though, as it’s an opt-in service which the vast majority of users don’t enable. systemd embracing: One of the reasons to switch to Xfce was that it didn’t depend on systemd. But now that systemd is the default, that shouldn’t be a problem. Also given ConsoleKit is deprecated and dead upstream, KDE and Xfce are switching or are planning to switch to systemd/logind. In addition to this, moving to Xfce now would mean yet another transition to a new desktop (if we consider GNOME 2.x → 3.x a transition, which it is), which would mean a new round of adapation for users installing Debian from scratch, and only after two years after getting used to the GNOME 3 workflow. jessie's GNOME 3.x release should be a lot more polished than what we shipped with wheezy, which means many of the rough edges and annoyances people may have found when upgrading from squeeze are probably now ironed out. Many members of the Debian GNOME team feel shipping Xfce by default would mean regressing in a few key areas like, as mentioned before, accessibility, localisation and documentation of the default set of applications. We are wary about the state of some features of the current default with respect to power management and bluetooth, for example. These features are driven by, and working since day 1, by GNOME 3.12. Jordi -- Jordi Mallach Pérez -- Debian developer http://www.debian.org/ jo...@sindominio.net jo...@debian.org http://www.sindominio.net/ GnuPG public key information avail
Re: Reverting to GNOME for jessie's default desktop
Hi dd@. (M-F-T was set so respecting it; but adding -boot@ anyway.) Jordi Mallach (2014-08-07): > It's been around 9 months since tasksel changed (for real) the default > desktop for new installs. At the time of the change, it was mentioned > the issue would be revisited before the freeze, around debconf time. > > Well, it's roughly that time. :) So I'd like to plainly request GNOME is > reinstated as the default desktop environment for a number of reasons. > > […] Many thanks for your thorough input. For the record I concur with your analysis (be it with my casual DD hat or with my d-i release guy hat). On a related note: I've meant to investigate maybe making it easier to install an alternative desktop (having to think about it at the syslinux prompt is quite suboptimal to say the least), but I haven't been able to work on that yet. If such an improvement would come to existence, that would probably be another obstacle removed from the path of people who want to install a non-default desktop. (Right now I have to concentrate on getting regressions fixed to release a beta 1.) Mraw, KiBi. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Reverting to GNOME for jessie's default desktop
On Thu, 07 Aug 2014, Jordi Mallach wrote: > Well, it's roughly that time. :) So I'd like to plainly request GNOME > is reinstated as the default desktop environment for a number of > reasons. One of the reasons put forward for switching to Xfce was size on the installation images; could you (and/or debian-cd) address this? Specifically: 1) Would you want the default CD/DVD image to use a GNOME even if GNOME was unable to fit on a single image? 2) Would the GNOME team consider a less-complete DE for cases where image size is a restriction? -- Don Armstrong http://www.donarmstrong.com First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. -- F. Scott Fitzgerald -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140807222926.gn2...@rzlab.ucr.edu
Bug#756947: unble to re-enable wifi/bt after hardware or software disable
Hey,
You seem to be using '02:04.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation
PRO/Wireless 2200BG [Calexico2] Network Connection (rev 05)' with
ipw2200 driver (+ correctly loaded non-free firmware blob
'ipw2200-bss.fw') as your wireless card and '03f0:011d Hewlett-Packard
Bluetooth 1.2 Interface [Broadcom BCM2035]' as your bluetooth module.
Quick googling of an ipw2200 error message from your dmesg log
('ipw2200: Failed to send CARD_DISABLE: Command timed out.') returns
quite a few similar issues with your card.
However, you mentioned that also your bluetooth module gets disabled,
which suggests that the problem might not be directly related to your
wireless card. Can you please try rfkill as Russ suggested in his reply?
Russ Allbery writes:
> Does rfkill unblock succeed in re-enabling your wireless? (You may
> have to install the rfkill package.)
So, after your wifi gets disabled, execute 'rfkill unblock' and check if
anything changed.
BTW Which desktop environment are you using?
Regards,
T.
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Bug#757424: ITP: libtest-yaml-perl -- test module for YAML implementations
Package: wnpp Owner: gregor herrmann Severity: wishlist X-Debbugs-CC: debian-devel@lists.debian.org,debian-p...@lists.debian.org * Package name: libtest-yaml-perl Version : 1.01 Upstream Author : Ingy d�t Net * URL : https://metacpan.org/release/Test-YAML * License : Artistic or GPL-1+ Programming Lang: Perl Description : test module for YAML implementations Test::YAML is a subclass of Test::Base with YAML specific support. Its purpose is to test Perl YAML modules. signature.asc Description: Digital Signature
Re: Reintroducing FFmpeg to Debian
user debian-le...@lists.debian.org usertags 729203 copyright-review-requested thanks Hi Charles, On 06.08.2014 13:55, Charles Plessy wrote: A few years ago, I made a proposal for peer-reviewing copyright files in the NEW queue. https://wiki.debian.org/CopyrightReview The goal is not to substitute for the inspection by the FTP Master team, but to correct defects before their review, therefore saving their time. This looks like a good idea, but unfortunately it seems not to be an often used process. I have done a few dozens of these reviews and share Thorsten's impression in general (althouth in my opinion 80 % is quite an upper-range estimate…). I have no accurate numbers, but I just reviewed three packages [1-3] and found problems in all of them. It's a rather small sample size, but still... I encourage everybody who uploads to the NEW queue to review some packages in exchange. To help people reviewing your package, please make sure that a copy is accessible (source packages in the NEW queue are not accessible outside the FTP Master team). Now, could anyone review the debian/copyright file of ffmpeg? The sources are available in this repository: https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/collab-maint/ffmpeg.git Best regards, Andreas 1: https://bugs.debian.org/686447 2: https://bugs.debian.org/735884 3: https://bugs.debian.org/683746 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53e4116b.80...@googlemail.com
Work-needing packages report for Aug 8, 2014
The following is a listing of packages for which help has been requested through the WNPP (Work-Needing and Prospective Packages) system in the last week. Total number of orphaned packages: 596 (new: 0) Total number of packages offered up for adoption: 139 (new: 3) Total number of packages requested help for: 60 (new: 0) Please refer to http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/ for more information. No new packages have been orphaned, but a total of 596 packages are orphaned. See http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/orphaned for a complete list. The following packages have been given up for adoption: libgraphite-php (#757228), offered yesterday Description: PHP Linked Data Library Reverse Depends: fusionforge-plugin-admssw Installations reported by Popcon: 1 php-arc (#757230), offered yesterday Description: Flexible RDF system for semantic web and PHP practitioners Reverse Depends: fusionforge-plugin-doaprdf fusionforge-plugin-extsubproj libgraphite-php Installations reported by Popcon: 17 php-cas (#757231), offered yesterday Description: Central Authentication Service client library in php Reverse Depends: fusionforge-plugin-authcas Installations reported by Popcon: 36 136 older packages have been omitted from this listing, see http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/rfa_bypackage for a complete list. For the following packages help is requested: apt-xapian-index (#567955), requested 1648 days ago Description: maintenance tools for a Xapian index of Debian packages Reverse Depends: ept-cache goplay packagesearch Installations reported by Popcon: 73909 athcool (#278442), requested 3572 days ago Description: Enable powersaving mode for Athlon/Duron processors Installations reported by Popcon: 46 awstats (#755797), requested 15 days ago Description: powerful and featureful web server log analyzer Installations reported by Popcon: 4072 balsa (#642906), requested 1047 days ago Description: An e-mail client for GNOME Reverse Depends: balsa-dbg Installations reported by Popcon: 773 cardstories (#624100), requested 1200 days ago Description: Find out a card using a sentence made up by another player Installations reported by Popcon: 7 chromium-browser (#583826), requested 1530 days ago Description: Chromium browser Reverse Depends: chromedriver chromium chromium-dbg chromium-l10n mozplugger Installations reported by Popcon: 24499 code-saturne (#754477), requested 27 days ago Description: General purpose Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD) software Reverse Depends: code-saturne Installations reported by Popcon: 166 csv2latex (#746158), requested 102 days ago Description: a CSV to LaTeX file converter Installations reported by Popcon: 156 cups (#532097), requested 1888 days ago Description: Common UNIX Printing System Reverse Depends: bluez-cups chromium cinnamon-settings-daemon cloudprint cups cups-backend-bjnp cups-browsed cups-bsd cups-client cups-core-drivers (63 more omitted) Installations reported by Popcon: 134524 debtags (#567954), requested 1648 days ago Description: Enables support for package tags Reverse Depends: goplay packagesearch Installations reported by Popcon: 2307 fbcat (#565156), requested 1667 days ago Description: framebuffer grabber Installations reported by Popcon: 155 freeipmi (#628062), requested 1169 days ago Description: GNU implementation of the IPMI protocol Reverse Depends: freeipmi freeipmi-bmc-watchdog freeipmi-ipmidetect freeipmi-tools libfreeipmi-dev libfreeipmi12 libipmiconsole-dev libipmiconsole2 libipmidetect-dev libipmidetect0 (3 more omitted) Installations reported by Popcon: 5307 gnat-gps (#496905), requested 2170 days ago Description: co-maintainer needed Reverse Depends: gnat-gps gnat-gps-dbg Installations reported by Popcon: 519 gnokii (#677750), requested 782 days ago Description: Datasuite for mobile phone management Reverse Depends: gnokii gnokii-cli gnokii-smsd gnokii-smsd-mysql gnokii-smsd-pgsql gnome-phone-manager libgnokii-dev libgnokii6 xgnokii Installations reported by Popcon: 1596 gnupg (#660685), requested 899 days ago Description: GNU privacy guard - a free PGP replacement Reverse Depends: 0install-core apt arriero bootstrap-base cdebootstrap cdebootstrap-static clamav-unofficial-sigs cloud-utils debian-archive-keyring debian-edu-archive-keyring (54 more omitted) Installations reported by Popcon: 164374 gpa (#663405), requested 880 days ago Desc
Bug#756966: Stripped black and white background on activites page in Gnome after coming out of suspend.
Before I do a reinstall. I will try the other catalyst driver that AMD offers. They also offer a 14.6 beta. I will give it a go this weekend and report back. On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 9:26 PM, Jk Pieka wrote: > I know very little polish from my grandparents who swam over here to the > states. I had to look up the spelling for thank you. The spelling and > pronunciation is crazy different. I've got by with my family by knowing the > basic greetings and numbers. That is about all. > > Thanks for the help! > > -Jkpieka > > > On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 9:23 PM, Jk Pieka wrote: > >> 1. I attached lspci, dmesg, lsmod, and lsusb. I recorded these after the >> problem occurred. >> >> 2.AMD Catalyst™ 14.4 Proprietary Linux x86 Display Driver >> >> 3. >> >> A. >> GNOME Shell 3.4.2 >> >> B. >> X.Org X Server 1.12.4 >> Release Date: 2012-08-27 >> X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0 >> Build Operating System: Linux 3.11-2-amd64 x86_64 Debian >> Current Operating System: Linux jkpieka 3.2.0-4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian >> 3.2.60-1+deb7u3 x86_64 >> Kernel command line: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-3.2. >> 0-4-amd64 root=UUID=c5e9cd17-0332-440a-9d55-7b3436a39004 ro quiet >> Build Date: 17 December 2013 07:37:58PM >> xorg-server 2:1.12.4-6+deb7u2 (Julien Cristau ) >> Current version of pixman: 0.26.0 >> Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.x.org >> to make sure that you have the latest version. >> >> >> On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 7:00 PM, Tomasz Nitecki wrote: >> >>> Hey, >>> >>> Sorry for the late reply, I'm slightly overworked at the moment... >>> >>> >>> On 05/08/14 05:58, Jk Pieka wrote: >>> > 1. I attached lspci, dmesg, lsmod, and lsusb. I recorded these after >>> the >>> > problem occurred. >>> >>> Can you please send those to bug tracker too? Anything you send to >>> 756...@bugs.debian.org will show up in the web browsable version [1] >>> which will allow more people to look into your problem. As a matter of >>> fact, I might not be able to resolve it by myself and if so, I'll point >>> you to the correct people who will also require this information. >>> >>> >>> > 3. >>> > A. >>> > GNOME Shell 3.4.2 >>> > >>> > B. >>> > X.Org X Server 1.12.4 >>> >>> Include those in your email too :) >>> >>> >>> Anyway, lets get back to your problem. In your dmesg there is a message >>> that indicates an error in fglrx driver (ATI Catalyst): >>> >>> [10009.718081] [fglrx:firegl_pplib_notify_event] *ERROR* PPLIB: PPLib >>> Notify Event failed! >>> [10009.718084] [fglrx:firegl_pplib_notify_event] *ERROR* >>> ulEventType = 0002, ulEventData = >>> >>> Searching for it returns a few results (some even mentioning stripes). >>> >>> Please do one more test for me: >>> 1. Switch to tty1 (ctrl+alt+f1) >>> 2. Run pm-suspend (it will suspend your system) >>> 3. Wake up your system (by using power button) >>> 4. Switch back to DE (alt+f7) >>> And check if the stripes also appear. >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> T. >>> >>> >>> [1] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=756966 >>> >>> >> I attempted the test in two ways. >> >> First I did it by logging in as root. I ran pm-suspend. My computer >> turned off and went into suspend. When I pressed the power button to turn >> the computer back on the computer fired up. Fans blazing. I however did not >> get an image on my screen. I did not get any video feed at all. My monitor >> stayed in stand-by. I waited 2-3 minutes, and was forced to power off the >> computer by hand. Restart went fine, and computer booted up like normal. >> >> Second I did it by logging in as my user name. I ram sudo pm-suspend. >> Which may be the equivalent of running pm-suspend as root user. I am not >> sure, however the same exact result came as the first attempt. I had to >> power off manually and restart. >> >> I have only thought of one thing. Mind you I am not a Linux >> debugger/programmer, just an avid user. I remember back to my Arch linux >> days, that you have to set-up swap space in order to use suspend. When I >> installed debian/gnome, I just chose a general installation. I never >> created my own partitions. If I create separate partitions on the install >> It might have a better chance at success. I'll give it a go this weekend >> perhaps. >> >> >
Re: Reverting to GNOME for jessie's default desktop
I cannot make a full, fair comparison between desktop environments, as I use none. I saw several people bark at GNOME 3, but most of them are happy adopters nowadays, so, I don't believe that factor should carry much weigh nowadays. Besides, as Jordi says, making end users re-learn everything *again* would be somewhat a disservice. > > Well, it's roughly that time. :) So I'd like to plainly request GNOME > > is reinstated as the default desktop environment for a number of > > reasons. > > One of the reasons put forward for switching to Xfce was size on the > installation images; could you (and/or debian-cd) address this? > > Specifically: 1) Would you want the default CD/DVD image to use a GNOME > even if GNOME was unable to fit on a single image? 2) Would the GNOME > team consider a less-complete DE for cases where image size is a > restriction? ...And I'd like us to consider this point as well: How important are CD images nowadays? Who has a CD that cannot read a DVD? Will they be able to use on said machine a modern desktop environment as resource-demanding as, say, i3 or fvwm? Of course, I don't have the numbers for the uploads (maybe Steve McIntyre can fill us in here... Steve, do you have download statistics for the different media?), but I'd bet the majority gets either minimal USB images or full DVD ones (and I cannot imagine why somebody would download the BluRay — But that's a different discussion). I don't think the "max 650MB" should limit Debian's defaults in 2014. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140808033429.ga106...@gwolf.org
Re: Reverting to GNOME for jessie's default desktop
Jordi Mallach wrote: > Accessibility > Hardware: GNOME 3.12 will be one of the few desktop environments to support > HiDPI displays, now very common on some laptop models. Lack of support for > HiDPI means non-technical users will get an unreadable desktop by default, and > no hints on how to fix that. I think the above are fairly big points. It would be helpful to see a pointer to a bug report about how xfce fails when the DPI is higher than usual. (Also, perhaps worth noting that 3.12 is quite a few versions ahead of the gnome currently in unstable..) Another one I've become aware of, but not investigated is that xfce's compositor may not do as good a job at eliminating tearing (with eg, Intel graphics) as gnome's does. (Also, I think xfce doesn't enable compositing by default.) Further investigation of this would be appreciated. > Popularity: One of the metrics discussed by the tasksel change proponents > mentioned popcon numbers. 8 months after the desktop change, Xfce does not > seem > to have made a dent on install numbers. fwiw https://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=task-gnome-desktop+task-xfce-desktop+gnome+xfce4&show_installed=on&want_legend=on&want_ticks=on&from_date=&to_date=&hlght_date=2014-01-25&date_fmt=%25Y-%25m&beenhere=1 > systemd embracing: One of the reasons to switch to Xfce was that it didn’t > depend on systemd. But now that systemd is the default, that shouldn’t be a > problem. Also given ConsoleKit is deprecated and dead upstream, KDE and Xfce > are switching or are planning to switch to systemd/logind. systemd did not much affect the switch to xfce. OTOH, double-suspend bugs still being open is a problem. #727605 > Downstream health > > Upstream health > > Community > > Security > > Privacy > > Documentation I don't think these are very useful criteria, unless they lead to actual technical issues/benefits. Which can then be discussed on technical and/or quantified grounds rather than advocacy grounds. > Localization I'm wary of comparing translation percentages since that hides a lot of relevant details. It's better to look at how well a given translation performs in regular usage. Another thing that makes comparing localization numbers work better is to scale them by native speaker populations. Perhaps bubulle could do a more detailed analysis? -- see shy jo signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Reverting to GNOME for jessie's default desktop
Jordi Mallach wrote: > In addition to this, moving to Xfce now would mean yet another transition to > a new desktop (if we consider GNOME 2.x → 3.x a transition, which it is), Would that we had considered that when shipping wheezy... > which would mean a new round of adapation for users installing Debian from > scratch, and only after two years after getting used to the GNOME 3 workflow. There's a hidden assumption there that the only people who are going to be using a desktop in jessie have already been exposed to gnome 3. It's also a big stretch to say that many people are going to be surprised by the xfce interface, even if they have gotten used to gnome 3 recently. > jessie's GNOME 3.x release should be a lot more polished than what we shipped > with wheezy, which means many of the rough edges and annoyances people may > have found when upgrading from squeeze are probably now ironed out. It's still basically fundamentally different from any other DE, although broadly riffing on mobile UI's, right? -- see shy jo signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Reverting to GNOME for jessie's default desktop
Incidentially, I don't much appreciate the counterproductive sniping that Jordi added in his blog post about this. Perhaps you're not aware, Jordi, but switching to xfce was discussed at last DebConf. It was not done "announced in a git commit log". -- see shy jo signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Reverting to GNOME for jessie's default desktop
On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 12:41 AM, Joey Hess wrote: >> Hardware: GNOME 3.12 will be one of the few desktop environments to support >> HiDPI displays, now very common on some laptop models. Lack of support for >> HiDPI means non-technical users will get an unreadable desktop by default, >> and >> no hints on how to fix that. > > I think the above are fairly big points. > > It would be helpful to see a pointer to a bug report about how xfce > fails when the DPI is higher than usual. (Also, perhaps worth noting > that 3.12 is quite a few versions ahead of the gnome currently in > unstable..) This is a pretty common misconception and also pretty easy to workaround. xsettings->Xft can be set to a large value like 180 in xfce4-settings-editor (xfce's gconf). That's a usability issue and could definitely be improved with a widget in one of the more user-oriented xfce settings tools. > Another one I've become aware of, but not investigated is that xfce's > compositor may not do as good a job at eliminating tearing (with eg, > Intel graphics) as gnome's does. (Also, I think xfce doesn't enable > compositing by default.) Further investigation of this would be appreciated. > >> Popularity: One of the metrics discussed by the tasksel change proponents >> mentioned popcon numbers. 8 months after the desktop change, Xfce does not >> seem >> to have made a dent on install numbers. > > fwiw > https://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=task-gnome-desktop+task-xfce-desktop+gnome+xfce4&show_installed=on&want_legend=on&want_ticks=on&from_date=&to_date=&hlght_date=2014-01-25&date_fmt=%25Y-%25m&beenhere=1 Popcon data is actually very useful when interpreted relatively. Those curves pretty clearly show user desktop selections going toward whatever the default is, and growth in desktop installs continuing to increase overall at a pretty similar rate to the historical trend. It would be reasonable to conclude that the default actually doesn't matter much, and the majority of users will just adapt to whatever it is (and those that don't are capable of installing task-gnome-desktop). The better question is whether the xfce switch had or has any influence on slowing the general debian growth rate [0]? Is the slight downtick over the last few months due to the default desktop, or some other change that users aren't liking (maybe systemd), or just a random fluctuation? Best wishes, Mike [0] https://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=base-files -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CANTw=moyyck-isvrpg1v0gqse1q+kt5prt5yg7nscvbgwsv...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Reverting to GNOME for jessie's default desktop
On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 1:52 AM, Michael Gilbert wrote: > The better question is whether the xfce switch had or has any > influence on slowing the general debian growth rate [0]? Is the > slight downtick over the last few months due to the default desktop, > or some other change that users aren't liking (maybe systemd), or just > a random fluctuation? Here's a really interesting view showing the downward trend starting somewhere in April [0]. Note that the xfce trend was consistently growing prior to and past January (when the default was changed), but slowed a lot in April. At the same time, gnome and base-files started losing users. I've chosen to highlight April 26th, which is the date systemd 204-9 was uploaded to unstable [1]. It was around that time that the systemd packages introduced dependency changes that casual users were forced to think about. Anyway, nothing conclusive since correlation != causation, but something definitely worth pondering about systemd's potential cause and effect. Best wishes, Mike [0] https://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=base-files+task-gnome-desktop+task-xfce-desktop+gnome+xfce4&show_installed=on&want_legend=on&want_ticks=on&from_date=&to_date=&hlght_date=2014-04-26&date_fmt=%25Y-%25m&beenhere=1 [1] https://packages.qa.debian.org/s/systemd/news/20140426T230007Z.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CANTw=MPm7-Dms7Qnw+rQ0Tn_7uJ-x1D8gFuVQG3-D60=acm...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Reverting to GNOME for jessie's default desktop
Hi, after having tried Gnome3 for about a year I have banished it from all my computers, and switched to XFCE. *BUT* there is a point that has to be considered: XFCE is currently broken due to the irresponsible upload of upower, which completely breaks XFCE Power Manager. See bug 755234 - patches are available, but they are only half functional, and the next upstream release 4.12 will probably not be ready by release time. That means, we would be shipping a broken default desktop: * suspend control does not work * battery display is not updated just to name a few. I think the best option would be to downgrade upower to a working version that does not break other desktop environments, unless they are ready, or patches are provided. ANother option would be to switch back to G3, although that scares away again lots of users. But the current situation will *not* help to keep or increase users of Debian. If I am a new user installing on a laptop, and the default desktop has broken power management, then my next step is removal. Of course, this dire situation has come upon us due to the strong interleaving of Gnome and Systemd and upower maintainers, uploading without making sure not to break the rest of the infrastructure. So in this situation, switching to Gnome, just for the sake of not loosing even more users, is probably the best option. Norbert PREINING, Norbert http://www.preining.info JAIST, Japan TeX Live & Debian Developer GPG: 0x860CDC13 fp: F7D8 A928 26E3 16A1 9FA0 ACF0 6CAC A448 860C DC13 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140808063944.gd29...@auth.logic.tuwien.ac.at
