Bug#747070: ITP: apt-venv -- apt virtual environment

2014-05-05 Thread Leo Iannacone
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Leo Iannacone 

* Package name: apt-venv
  Version : 0.1.0
  Upstream Author : Leo Iannacone 
* URL : https://github.com/LeoIannacone/apt-venv
* License : GPL-3
  Programming Lang: Python
  Description : apt virtual environment

 apt-venv creates a sort of virtual environment in the user
 home directory and forces apt to run under some custom option.
 .
 A simple use case is collect information about packages
 in different Debian and Ubuntu release without surfing the web,
 just using calling apt-cache through the virtual environment.


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Re: standalone logind (Re: Bits from the systemd + GNOME sprint)

2014-05-05 Thread Matthias Urlichs
Hi,

Cameron Norman:
> I understand just fine how it is packaged. It is packaged in a way that
> pushes components down other's throats and tells users to simply disable
> them if they are not necessary.

So? The standard case is that they're either not really optional, 
or they passively sit around, consuming disk space and perhaps an open
socket but no other resources.

In the first case, you can create a package that disables logind / replaces
sytemd-nspawn with a link to /bin/false very easily. This will take MUCH
less work than it'd take to split up systemd even more, add a bunch of
redundant dependencies to whatever, and fix the inevitable bugs that'll be
introduced by this.

The second case is a no-brainer. Many packages in Debian consist of more
than one binary, of which you need at most one (if that). Do you really
want to mass-file a bug against all of these _and_ the packages depending
on them, or are you picking on systemd for non-technical reasons here?

Sorry, but I suspect the latter.

-- 
-- Matthias Urlichs


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Bug#747083: ITP: xcape -- use a modifier key as another key

2014-05-05 Thread KAction
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: KAction 

* Package name: xcape
  Version : 1.1
  Upstream Author : Albin Olsson 
* URL : https://github.com/alols/xcape
* License : GPL
  Programming Lang: C
  Description : use a modifier key as another key
 xcape allows you to use a modifier key as another key when pressed and
 released on its own. Note that it is slightly slower than pressing the
 original key, because the pressed event does not occur until the key is
 released. The default behaviour is to generate the Escape key when Left
 Control is pressed and released on its own. (If you don't understand why
 anybody would want this, I'm guessing that Vim is not your favourite text
 editor ;)

This package is currently the only maintained of its kind, as far
as I know. I am using it around year, no problems occured.


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Re: Point 1 of Social Contract

2014-05-05 Thread Solal
Le 04/05/2014 23:15, Jonathan Dowland a écrit :
> On Sun, May 04, 2014 at 01:59:09PM +0200, Solal wrote:
>> I think we shouldn't support proprietary software creaters
> 
> Who's 'we'?

"We" in the official list of Debian developers means... The Debian
developers.


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Re: Bug#735134: perl: rename(1) is ancient

2014-05-05 Thread Dominic Hargreaves
On Sun, Feb 02, 2014 at 03:12:32PM +, Dominic Hargreaves wrote:
> [CCing debian-devel to get feedback on a de facto 'standard' tool].
> 
> On Sat, Jan 18, 2014 at 03:34:29PM +, Dominic Hargreaves wrote:
> > On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 12:59:04PM -0800, Don Armstrong wrote:
> > > On Tue, 14 Jan 2014, Niko Tyni wrote:
> 
> > > > I suggest something like
> > > > 
> > > > - package libfile-rename-perl
> > > > - make it supply a better /usr/bin/rename with the alternatives system
> > 
> > libfile-rename-perl is now on its way to NEW.
> > 
> > > > - make the old one from the perl package issue warnings, Recommend 
> > > >   libfile-rename-perl for one release cycle
> > > 
> > > I don't know if this is actually necessary. We could just have perl
> > > depend on libfile-rename-perl once we remove debian/rename. Or just keep
> > > rename as it is currently. But I'm OK with either option so long as
> > > /usr/bin/rename keeps the same syntax.
> > 
> > I think removing the rename from the Debian package is the best long-term
> > option, otherwise we still end up carrying dead code around. The question
> > of whether we carry around a Depends long-term rather depends on whether
> > users generally consider rename a fundamental part of the perl package.
> > It's certainly become quite a basic tools that I expect to see on Debian
> > systems, but others may disagree. The alternative, of course, is for
> > libfile-rename-perl to just be Standard, without any actual long-term
> > dependencies.
> 
> So to summarise: for many years the perl package has provided
> /usr/bin/rename, a stanalone utility implemented in perl. The issue is we
> don't want to provide the utility from the perl package any more because
> it's been added locally inside debian/ and is not being maintained. A
> maintained version is available as a separate package, libfile-rename-perl.
> 
> The proposals on the table are:
> 
> 1) Have perl Depend on libfile-rename-perl (and therefore have the
>latter become Priority: standard)
> 2) Make libfile-rename-perl be Standard, to match perl, without adding
>any dependencies.
> 3) Have perl Recommend libfile-rename-perl for one release cycle and then
>drop it
>- optionally with a warning being emitted by the built-in script
> 4) 2) + 3) combined.
> 
> Option 1 would imply that the utility is fundamentally a part of 
> using perl, which since it's a standalone command line program which
> happens to be written in perl, seems wrong.
> 
> Option 2 is my preferred option because it seems like the 'least surprise'
> option. 4) can be considered a mostly-harmless enhancement to that,
> although adding warnings could be irritating or harmful in some
> circumstances.

Based on all the comments, I am proceeding to:

1) Make 'rename' (as it has now been renamed, from libfile-rename-perl)
   Priority: standard
2) Add a Recommends on rename to the perl package for a transitional period
3) Submit a new lintian check for things which use rename or prename in
   build scripts, advising of changes needed.
4) Wait until vitually all packages have been fixed and then remove
   prename from the perl package

Cheers,
Dominic.


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Re: Point 1 of Social Contract

2014-05-05 Thread Salvo Tomaselli
> …and firmware.
+1

-- 
Salvo Tomaselli

"Io non mi sento obbligato a credere che lo stesso Dio che ci ha dotato di
senso, ragione ed intelletto intendesse che noi ne facessimo a meno."
-- Galileo Galilei

http://ltworf.github.io/ltworf/


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Re: Point 1 of Social Contract

2014-05-05 Thread Solal
No +1 because proprietary firmware is unethical too.

Le 05/05/2014 17:28, Salvo Tomaselli a écrit :
>> …and firmware.
> +1
> 


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Re: Bug#747070: ITP: apt-venv -- apt virtual environment

2014-05-05 Thread Dimitri John Ledkov
On 5 May 2014 11:03, Leo Iannacone  wrote:
> Package: wnpp
> Severity: wishlist
> Owner: Leo Iannacone 
>
> * Package name: apt-venv
>   Version : 0.1.0
>   Upstream Author : Leo Iannacone 
> * URL : https://github.com/LeoIannacone/apt-venv
> * License : GPL-3
>   Programming Lang: Python
>   Description : apt virtual environment
>
>  apt-venv creates a sort of virtual environment in the user
>  home directory and forces apt to run under some custom option.
>  .
>  A simple use case is collect information about packages
>  in different Debian and Ubuntu release without surfing the web,
>  just using calling apt-cache through the virtual environment.

How is it different from "chdist" utility from the devscripts package
that allows apt-cache lookups and more?

http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/trusty/en/man1/chdist.1.html

-- 
Regards,

Dimitri.


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Re: standalone logind (Re: Bits from the systemd + GNOME sprint)

2014-05-05 Thread Kevin Chadwick
previously on this list Matthias Urlichs contributed:

> The second case is a no-brainer. Many packages in Debian consist of more
> than one binary, of which you need at most one (if that). Do you really
> want to mass-file a bug against all of these _and_ the packages depending
> on them, or are you picking on systemd for non-technical reasons here?
> 
> Sorry, but I suspect the latter.

Why did I expect any reasonable and balanced discussion! I suspect
but haven't mentioned that I expect the reasons for bundling these
components together to be on highly questionable grounds.

Something like avahi-daemon can be easily understood as what it is
needed for and whilst I would like to remove it I can simply disable the
service without any consideration as I know I have no use for it even
if I use cups meaning an increases in security without any
functionality loss for our users.

Things like coreutils are used but not resident. With systemd-services
knowing what it is doing is more important and being able to avoid
complex resident code with minimal sacrifice should be possible.

You could easily argue that just logind does far more in one binary
than it should for reasonable system management never mind it being
bundled with other especially potentially widely used functions like
systemd-localed. After a quick look at the script I guess aptdaemon only
needs localed.

I guess there is no unlaborious way to see which programs depend on a
particular binary of a given package?

GDM can be easily avoided or uninstalled for example if you have no
need for logind and perhaps there are alternatives for any others but
the current situation means you have to cut out more or investigate far
more than you should have to.

And Yes KDE dependencies being so coarse grained do really annoy me but
atleast KDE doesn't run by default.

-- 
___

'Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work
together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a
universal interface'

(Doug McIlroy)

In Other Words - Don't design like polkit or systemd
___

I have no idea why RTFM is used so aggressively on LINUX mailing lists
because whilst 'apropos' is traditionally the most powerful command on
Unix-like systems it's 'modern' replacement 'apropos' on Linux is a tool
to help psychopaths learn to control their anger.

(Kevin Chadwick)

___


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Re: gnutls28 transition

2014-05-05 Thread Christoph Biedl
Dimitri John Ledkov wrote...

> Should we start transition to gnutls28 by default, for all packages
> that are compatible?

Given the fact libgnutls26 has issues like #708174 and cannot handle
SHA-512 signed certificates as issued by CACert¹: Yes, please let's
get rid of that old stuff whereever possible and as soon as possible.

Christoph

¹ http://danielpocock.com/double-whammy-for-cacert.org-users came a
  few hours too late, I had to re-compile openldap using openssl.


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Re: Point 1 of Social Contract

2014-05-05 Thread Salvo Tomaselli
In data lunedì 5 maggio 2014 17:30:01, Solal ha scritto:
> No +1 because proprietary firmware is unethical too.
So don't install it and don't tell me what should I think.

Cheers

-- 
Salvo Tomaselli

"Io non mi sento obbligato a credere che lo stesso Dio che ci ha dotato di
senso, ragione ed intelletto intendesse che noi ne facessimo a meno."
-- Galileo Galilei

http://ltworf.github.io/ltworf/


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Re: Bug#747070: ITP: apt-venv -- apt virtual environment

2014-05-05 Thread Leo Iannacone
On 5 May 2014 17:58, Dimitri John Ledkov  wrote:
> How is it different from "chdist" utility from the devscripts package
> that allows apt-cache lookups and more?
>
> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/trusty/en/man1/chdist.1.html

I did not know "chdist", but .. after a quick look I can say
"apt-venv" has a different approach and goal.

It has been developed to provide user with a full virtual environment,
where you can run any command/script you want.
If fact, it launches a new `bash` session with a custom APT_CONFIG
environment variable, which forces apt to use a different
sources.list.

Perhaps, chdist may be patched to get this behavior...

Anyway, I don't know perl.

Best,

Leo.

-- 
Ubuntu Member - http://launchpad.net/~l3on
Home Page - http://leoiannacone.com
GPG Key Id - 0xD282FC25


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Re: Point 1 of Social Contract

2014-05-05 Thread IOhannes m zmölnig (Debian/GNU)
On 05/05/2014 05:30 PM, Solal wrote:
> No +1 because proprietary firmware is unethical too.

hmm, have you read the post you are replying to and what the "+1" was
referring to?

and please do stop top-posting...

fgmards
IOhannes

PS: am i just feeding the troll?




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Re: Point 1 of Social Contract

2014-05-05 Thread Jakub Wilk

* "IOhannes m zmölnig (Debian/GNU)" , 2014-05-05, 18:58:

PS: am i just feeding the troll?


Yes.

--
Jakub Wilk


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Re: A question about patches for upstream

2014-05-05 Thread Bas Wijnen
On Sun, May 04, 2014 at 05:36:53PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> I cannot imagine *any* example of a bug reported reported according to 
> guidelines being a waste of time.
> 
> Can you provide examples of that kind of response?

I remember it happening only once, and it was quite a while ago.  I can't
remember for which package it was, so I can't find a link.  I'm happy to see
that there is consensus anyway that forwarding bugs upstream is the task of the
maintainer.

Which means that if the maintainer is unable to do that, the response "please
forward this upstream" should be interpreted (and perhaps more clearly written)
as "sorry I don't have time, this is how you can try to make things happen
yourself".

Obviously, if the reporter wants to actively help solving the issue, sending it
upstream him/herself is a good idea, and it is good for the maintainer to
suggest this when it seems appropriate.

Thanks,
Bas


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Re: A question about patches for upstream

2014-05-05 Thread Kevin Chadwick
previously on this list Bas Wijnen contributed:

> Which means that if the maintainer is unable to do that, the response "please
> forward this upstream" should be interpreted (and perhaps more clearly 
> written)
> as "sorry I don't have time, this is how you can try to make things happen
> yourself".

Perhaps at the same time the minimum could be a debian dev anonymous
email address that is used to simply send a link to the bug report to
the upstream mailing list if they have one. It is not always easy for
a user to find the right place/list/having to register possibly
a second time etc..

-- 
___

'Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work
together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a
universal interface'

(Doug McIlroy)

In Other Words - Don't design like polkit or systemd
___

I have no idea why RTFM is used so aggressively on LINUX mailing lists
because whilst 'apropos' is traditionally the most powerful command on
Unix-like systems it's 'modern' replacement 'apropos' on Linux is a tool
to help psychopaths learn to control their anger.

(Kevin Chadwick)

___


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Module from /etc/modules-load.d/modules.conf not loaded after systemd upgrade

2014-05-05 Thread Torsten Landschoff
Hi all,

my development system running unstable failed to start X server after an
dist-upgrade two days ago.

After a bit of investigation I found out that the radeon module is not
loaded at bootup anymore. To get the graphical login back, the following
commands as root were needed:

# modprobe radeon
# systemctl restart kdm

Why radeon is not loaded at boot anymore is a mystery to me. All other
modules from /etc/modules (symlinked as
/etc/modules-load.d/modules.conf) are active after bootup.

Having no idea of systemd so far, I looked up a few manpages. This quote
from the manpage systemd-modules-load.service(8) caught my attention:

systemd-modules-load.service is an early-boot service that loads
kernel modules from static configuration.

So my guess was that with systemd the modules listed in /etc/modules
must be available from the initial ramdisk. To verify if this is the
case, I added the radeon module to the initial ramdisk:

# echo radeon >> /etc/initramfs-tools/modules
# update-initramfs -u

This change actually fixed the problem for me: After reboot the X server
starts just fine and I get my graphical login back.

But looking at the other modules in /etc/modules these actually get
loaded even though they are not included in my initrd (except for the
loop.ko module).

Can anybody give me a hint what is going on here? This could be a
upgrade problem for jessie as I am sure there are many systems out there
that still load some modules by means of /etc/modules-load.d.


Greetings, Torsten



Re: Point 1 of Social Contract

2014-05-05 Thread Philip Hands
"IOhannes m zmölnig (Debian/GNU)"  writes:
...
> and please do stop top-posting...

s/top-//


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Re: Module from /etc/modules-load.d/modules.conf not loaded after systemd upgrade

2014-05-05 Thread Ben Hutchings
On Tue, 2014-05-06 at 00:08 +0200, Torsten Landschoff wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> my development system running unstable failed to start X server after
> an dist-upgrade two days ago.
> 
> After a bit of investigation I found out that the radeon module is not
> loaded at bootup anymore. To get the graphical login back, the
> following commands as root were needed:
> # modprobe radeon
> # systemctl restart kdm
> Why radeon is not loaded at boot anymore is a mystery to me. All other
> modules from /etc/modules (symlinked
> as /etc/modules-load.d/modules.conf) are active after bootup.
[...]

radeon is normally auto-loaded by udev based on seeing a PCI device with
a matching device ID.  You should not need to add its name to any
configuration file.  I don't understand why you would put it
in /etc/modules in the first place.

Perhaps you have blacklisted radeon (for udev auto-loading) in some
other module configuration file?

Ben.

-- 
Ben Hutchings
The obvious mathematical breakthrough [to break modern encryption] would be
development of an easy way to factor large prime numbers. - Bill Gates


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Re: standalone logind (Re: Bits from the systemd + GNOME sprint)

2014-05-05 Thread Cameron Norman
Hello,

On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 3:29 AM, Matthias Urlichs  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> [snip]
>
> The second case is a no-brainer. Many packages in Debian consist of more
> than one binary, of which you need at most one (if that). Do you really
> want to mass-file a bug against all of these _and_ the packages depending
> on them, or are you picking on systemd for non-technical reasons here?
>
> Sorry, but I suspect the latter.

Please do not assume bad faith; I hold none.

Best wishes,
--
Cameron


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Re: A question about patches for upstream

2014-05-05 Thread Charles Plessy
Le Mon, May 05, 2014 at 08:56:48PM +0200, Bas Wijnen a écrit :
> 
> I'm happy to see that there is consensus anyway that forwarding bugs upstream
> is the task of the maintainer.

Hi all,

being a package maintainer, I am always uncomfortable when I have the
impression that I am considered like a human patch-pushing machine that extends
the impact of mass-scale patch producers.  Luckily it is not happening often,
but please let's take a point of view that is less patch-centric and more
human-centric.

When the first mass rebuilds with GCC and porting issues came to Debian, I was
very impressed.  Years later it became a routine and I sometimes feel that I am
pressed by a machine.  There is not much apparent coordination with the other
distributions (not our derivatives) that also conduce such large screens.
Especially for the GCC updates, it sometimes happens that if I do nothing,
Fedora will do the same screen, send patches Upstream and I will only have to
package a new upstream release as usual.  Why don't we start to share the
workload ?  It seems to be a race condition with a lot of duplicated work.  Not
to mention when Upstream himself follows the evolution of the toolchain.  Can't
we have a GCC foundation that takes care of this ?  I will be happy to donate
regularly.

Have a nice day,

-- 
Charles Plessy
Debian Med packaging team,
http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-med
Tsurumi, Kanagawa, Japan


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Re: Bug#747070: ITP: apt-venv -- apt virtual environment

2014-05-05 Thread Paul Wise
On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 12:57 AM, Leo Iannacone wrote:

> It has been developed to provide user with a full virtual environment,
> where you can run any command/script you want.
> If fact, it launches a new `bash` session with a custom APT_CONFIG
> environment variable, which forces apt to use a different
> sources.list.

chdist also sets APT_CONFIG, it doesn't however run bash but it would
be trivial to add that.

Some more similar things:

http://modules.sourceforge.net/ (sets PATH/PYTHONPATH etc)
https://packages.debian.org/sid/proot (fake chroot using ptrace)

-- 
bye,
pabs

http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise


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Re: Point 1 of Social Contract

2014-05-05 Thread Gunnar Wolf
Solal dijo [Mon, May 05, 2014 at 04:14:54PM +0200]:
> >> I think we shouldn't support proprietary software creaters
> > 
> > Who's 'we'?
> 
> "We" in the official list of Debian developers means... The Debian
> developers.

So... Who are you? We¹ would like to know.

¹ "We" in the context of a mail with no further information means
  "three of my sock puppets and me".


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Re: A question about patches for upstream

2014-05-05 Thread Cameron Norman
On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 6:05 PM, Charles Plessy  wrote:
> Le Mon, May 05, 2014 at 08:56:48PM +0200, Bas Wijnen a écrit :
>>
>> I'm happy to see that there is consensus anyway that forwarding bugs upstream
>> is the task of the maintainer.
>
> Hi all,
>
> being a package maintainer, I am always uncomfortable when I have the
> impression that I am considered like a human patch-pushing machine that 
> extends
> the impact of mass-scale patch producers.  Luckily it is not happening often,
> but please let's take a point of view that is less patch-centric and more
> human-centric.

I am sorry if this was mentioned earlier in the conversation, but are
you talking about a specific package here?

Best,
--
Cameron


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Re: Gerrit patch review, and gating (was: Call for help from KDE Team)

2014-05-05 Thread Thomas Goirand
On 05/02/2014 06:17 PM, David Goodenough wrote:
> On Friday 02 May 2014 11:32:41 Maximiliano Curia wrote:
>> ¡Hola Paul!
>>
>> El 2014-05-02 a las 08:40 +0800, Paul Wise escribió:
>>> On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 2:19 AM, Maximiliano Curia wrote:
 For quite a while now the KDE team has been severely understaffed. We
 maintain a lot of packages, with many different kinds of bugs, but we
 don't have enough people to do all the work that needs to be done. We
 have tools that help us automate the update to new upstream releases,
 but that's just the tip of the iceberg of our work and so we are
 writing to invite more people to get involved in the team and help us
 get KDE software in Debian into better shape.> 
>>> Have you invited the Kubuntu team to join you? I'll send a mail to the
>>> other derivatives I can find that use KDE.
>>
>> We've invited the Kubuntu team to merge their efforts with ours and use the
>> same packaging vcs. The answer was positive, although the migration is a bit
>> too far in the future. They sort of agree that they could migrate from
>> launchpad bzr to git.debian.org, but as they are a larger group they
>> separate junior and senior developers, requiring a review for each junior
>> commit, for which they have a workflow and systems in place that won't be
>> directly usable in git.debian.org. so the idea is to keep in sync most of
>> our work, and see if we can figure out a way to merge it.
>>
>> Which translates to some overhead and a larger TODO list than an immediate
>> help, but sure, once certain threshold in time invested is reached, both
>> Debian and Ubuntu could benefit from it.
>>
>> Happy hacking,
> Sounds like a job for Gerrit.  Currently not fully packages for Debian
> but I understand there is work being done one it.  There is a github 
> project at https://github.com/dnaeon/gerrit-debian which builds debs.
> 
> David

Someone starting a Debian package is a good idea, though IMO, it'd be
nicer if gerrit could be properly packaged in Sid / Testing. Does anyone
want to work on that? The above Debian package doesn't seem good after a
quick look (for example, it build-depends on java6-runtime-headless
which isn't in Sid anymore, depends on git-core instead of git,
copyright file isn't right, etc.). If hands are raising for packaging
gerrit and the necessary tools for building a gate, then I'd be happy to
work on that as well (though I feel like I've got enough work with the
packaging of OpenStack already, so my time would be unfortunately
limited...).

I've seen that the DSA are currently building an OpenStack cloud (using
the new Icehouse packages). I'm not sure what will be its use, or what's
the current plan, though it'd be a super nice idea to use it to setup
Gerrit and some kinds of gating process (piuparts & adequate comes to
mind of course). This could be for example used for spawning VMs to do
some checkings of each git commit on Alioth, with Gerrit as a tool for a
patch review process.

Cheers,

Thomas Goirand (zigo)


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