Re: "Blacklists" in BTS (stopping the trolls and bug machines)

[Ondřej Surý]

> examples would be useful

I have no big problem pointing fingers on d-d.

Example 1: Dan Jacobson 

This: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=707759
Or this: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=709568
Or this duplicate bug:
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=707131

And couple of bugs related to version from experimental, which I broke on
regular basis.

Or some older gems (related to binNMU):
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=522855
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=543558

(Again the duplicate bug):
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=567078

The combination of using "the latest greatest" (currently it was php from
experimental), inability to even slightly check where the problem is, not
using the reportbug is really not helping or the attitude to spawn bug
report at every possible occassion is really annoying.

Example 2: Filipus Klutiero 
Just pushing and pushing and pushing his opinions:
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=639230
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=658208 (Thanks Thijs for
handling the most of this bug.)

You might search other examples in other packages by these two.  As I said
some of the bug reports are valuable, but the noise-signal ratio is lower
then usual, and handling such bugreports sucks all joy from Debian for me.

O.

 On 24 May 2013 17:26, Ondřej Surý  wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I would like to ask what would be general opinion to add functionality to
> > BTS to be able to blacklist[*] certain people from filling the bugs
> > directly.
> >
> > There are few of them, some of them are trolls, some of them are just bug
> > machines, but it is tiresome to handle useless bugreports with no or
> little
> > info, when the more appropriate forum would be debian-user (or sometimes
> > /dev/null).
> >
> > It's not the situation that all of the bugs comming from those users are
> > utter non-sense, it's just the fact that the noise-signal ratio is very
> low.
> >
> > Or maybe I am just tired, and I really need someone to help me handle
> php5
> > bug reports...
> >
> > * - It doesn't have to be blacklist per se, it could be a queue which
> would
> > be viewed by some fresher minds, who still doesn't have
> > debian-burnout-syndrome. (Or maybe they should solve some complex problem
> > before they can submit the bug :).
> >
> > Ondrej
> > --
> > Ondřej Surý 
>



-- 
Ondřej Surý 

Re: "Blacklists" in BTS (stopping the trolls and bug machines)

[Ondřej Surý]

On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 7:08 PM, Don Armstrong  wrote:

> On Fri, 24 May 2013, Ondřej Surý wrote:
> > I would like to ask what would be general opinion to add functionality
> > to BTS to be able to blacklist[*] certain people from filling the bugs
> > directly.
>
> We actually already have this functionality, as the BTS uses procmail.
>
> > There are few of them, some of them are trolls, some of them are just
> > bug machines, but it is tiresome to handle useless bugreports with no
> > or little info, when the more appropriate forum would be debian-user
> > (or sometimes /dev/null).
>
> These happen all the time; the best method is to close them and refer
> them to -user, and suggest that they work with -user to identify their
> bug, and file a good one.
>

I try to do that, but you know I am not an endless cup of hospitality...
 and I never received response to "please, don't use version from
experimental", or "please use debian-user instead of filling such bugs".


> Finally, I strongly suggest adding a bug script for you package to
> report additional information that will help you triage out badly filed
> bugs.
>

AFAIK there's one for php5 (at least it lists the modules), but it's
useless since Dan Jacobson doesn't use reportbug.

O.
-- 
Ondřej Surý 

Re: using upstart in Debian [was, Re: Debian systemd survey]

[Vincent Bernat]

 ❦ 24 mai 2013 12:29 CEST, Dmitrijs Ledkovs  :

> The best way to run daemons under upstart is in foreground, then
> correct PID is tracked and the complete stdout/stderr is properly
> collected and stored in /var/log/upstart/$job.log (even early boot
> output).

The best way to run a daemon under upstart is by using "expect
stop". This is the one thing I think upstart is better than
systemd. This is really easy to implement in most daemons (one line of
code). Notifying systemd is not really complex but this cannot be done
in one line or without an external dependency.
-- 
Keep it right when you make it faster.
- The Elements of Programming Style (Kernighan & Plauger)


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Re: X.509 and CA certificates for other purposes (i.e. the IGTF)

[Charles Plessy]

Le Fri, May 24, 2013 at 12:32:29PM +0200, Dennis van Dok a écrit :
> 
> I've seen the Debconf '12 discussion on X.509 certificate stores[1]
> and the Wiki page that came out of that discussion[2].
> 
> 1.
> http://www.irill.org/videos/debconf-12/895_X.509_Cert_Store_Discussion.mp4
> 2. http://wiki.debian.org/X.509
> 
> As far as I'm aware there aren't many mentions of [2] in the public
> mailing lists, but I'm very interested to discuss where this is going.
> 
> My main interest is the use case for certificates from the science
> grid community. The IGTF[3] has a distribution of accredited CAs that
> are used world-wide to authenticate both services and users. These are
> typically not the kind of CAs you'd trust for on-line banking, but
> services like:
> 
>  - compute clusters
>  - grid storage pools
>  - science clouds
>  - science workflow portals
>  - etc.

Hi Dennis and everybody,

somewhat related to this, I would like to know if there is a package that could
host Amazon's EC2 public certificate ?  In Ubuntu it is added to the euca2ools
package, because a program of this package can use it, but it is not part of
the upstream source (which is not Amazon), so I really would prefer to ship
the certificate somewhere else.

I proposed ca-certificates earlier, but the result was inconclusive.

http://bugs.debian.org/573857

Would there be a volunteer to maintain new package from scratch if needed ?

Cheers,

-- 
Charles Plessy
Tsurumi, Kanagawa, Japan


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Re: systemd .service file conversion

[Thomas Goirand]

On 05/23/2013 03:14 PM, Helmut Grohne wrote:
> On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 07:16:18AM +0200, Zbigniew J??drzejewski-Szmek wrote:
>> Providing a conversion script which recreates all of systemd
>> functionality would basically mean reimplemting a big part of
>> systemd in shell. Providing an interpeter would man reimplementing
>> a big part of systemd in whatever the interpreter is written in.
>> Both options seem infeasible, unless only partial functionality is
>> supported. [1] lists e.g. SystemCallFilter=, PrivateTmp=, PrivateNetwork=,
>> CapabilityBoundingSet=, SecuritBits= which have security and
>> correctness implications, and are IMHO pretty hard to recreate.
> 
> I partly disagree here. A good reason to reimplement part of systemd is
> to have a portable subset of its functionality. This could be part of
> the answer to the question of what to do about kfreebsd.

If I'm not mistaking, the design you are describing is called OpenRC! :)

Thomas


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Re: "Blacklists" in BTS (stopping the trolls and bug machines)

[Ben Hutchings]

On Sat, 2013-05-25 at 10:41 +0200, Ondřej Surý wrote:
> > examples would be useful
> 
> 
> I have no big problem pointing fingers on d-d.
> 
> 
> Example 1: Dan Jacobson 

Often writes poor bug reports, but is not abusive.

[...]
> Example 2: Filipus Klutiero 
> Just pushing and pushing and pushing his opinions:
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=639230
> 
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=658208 (Thanks Thijs
> for handling the most of this bug.)
[...]

Yes, I think we can do without his bug reports.

Ben.


-- 
Ben Hutchings
Once a job is fouled up, anything done to improve it makes it worse.


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Re: "Blacklists" in BTS (stopping the trolls and bug machines)

[Michael Gilbert]

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 11:52 AM, Ben Hutchings wrote:
> On Sat, 2013-05-25 at 10:41 +0200, Ondřej Surý wrote:
>> > examples would be useful
>>
>>
>> I have no big problem pointing fingers on d-d.
>>
>>
>> Example 1: Dan Jacobson 
>
> Often writes poor bug reports, but is not abusive.
>
> [...]
>> Example 2: Filipus Klutiero 
>> Just pushing and pushing and pushing his opinions:
>> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=639230
>>
>> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=658208 (Thanks Thijs
>> for handling the most of this bug.)
> [...]
>
> Yes, I think we can do without his bug reports.

I think it would be wrong to discriminate against particular bug
reporters.  I've found it often helpful to make specific suggestions
about the bug reports that I've received that aren't of sufficient
quality.  Sure, that takes some time, but it also reduces repeat poor
submissions because eventually those specific suggestions improve the
quality of those reporters over time.  That probably sounds naive and
too kind, but in my opinion, it's just the right thing to do.

Best wishes,
Mike


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Re: "Blacklists" in BTS (stopping the trolls and bug machines)

[Russ Allbery]

Ben Hutchings  writes:
> On Sat, 2013-05-25 at 10:41 +0200, Ondřej Surý wrote:

>> I have no big problem pointing fingers on d-d.
>> 
>> Example 1: Dan Jacobson 

> Often writes poor bug reports, but is not abusive.

And his bug reports have gotten better and better over the years.  He
still files all upstream bugs with Debian, but I can't throw stones there;
I tend to do the same thing myself, since Debian has such a nice and
consistent bug reporting interface and upstream's usually... isn't.  :)

He files lots and lots of minor/wishlist bugs, but that isn't abuse.  He's
one of the few people who regularly files bugs when he finds unclear or
confusing documentation, and while that results in a lot of small bugs
(and a lot of bugs that are really upstream bugs), I think that's also a
valuable *type* of bug that frequently doesn't get enough attention.

-- 
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org)   


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Re: Debian systemd survey

[Bob Proulx]

Michael Stapelberg wrote:
> In the past, we have had multiple heated discussions involving
> systemd. We (the pkg-systemd-maintainers team) would like to better
> understand why some people dislike systemd.
> 
> Therefore, we have created a survey, which you can find at
> http://survey.zekjur.net/index.php/391182
> 
> Please only submit your feedback to the survey and not this thread, we
> are not particularly interested in yet another systemd discussion at
> this point.

The wording of one of the questions in the survey is problematic.

  What is your general sentiment towards having systemd in Debian (not
  necessarily as default)?  Choose one of the following answers
[ ] I welcome systemd in Debian, everything is fine
[ ] I am not sure yet
[ ] I don't care
[ ] I don't want systemd in Debian

I realize the words "(not necessarily as default)" are included in the
question.  But that is only parenthetical.  I personally don't mind
having options available that I do not use.  But I don't think this
question is worded to account for this.

If I respond that "I welcome systemd in Debian (as an option for
others to use)" does that mean this will count as a vote toward having
systemd as a default?  If I respond that "I don't want systemd in
Debian (as a default)" will that count as a vote that systemd should
not be available in Debian as an option for others?

Bob


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Re: Debian systemd survey

[Russ Allbery]

Bob Proulx  writes:

> The wording of one of the questions in the survey is problematic.

>   What is your general sentiment towards having systemd in Debian (not
>   necessarily as default)?  Choose one of the following answers
> [ ] I welcome systemd in Debian, everything is fine
> [ ] I am not sure yet
> [ ] I don't care
> [ ] I don't want systemd in Debian

> I realize the words "(not necessarily as default)" are included in the
> question.  But that is only parenthetical.  I personally don't mind
> having options available that I do not use.  But I don't think this
> question is worded to account for this.

> If I respond that "I welcome systemd in Debian (as an option for
> others to use)" does that mean this will count as a vote toward having
> systemd as a default?

The very next question is about whether you want systemd to be the
default, so I don't think that would be a reasonable interpretation of the
survey results.

> If I respond that "I don't want systemd in Debian (as a default)" will
> that count as a vote that systemd should not be available in Debian as
> an option for others?

That's not an available option.  The option says "I don't want systemd in
Debian" without the parenthetical, which in context would mean that you
don't want the packages to be in Debian at all.  The next question offers
a place to say that you don't want systemd to be the default.

If your position is that you're happy to have systemd be available in
Debian but you don't want it to be the default, I would answer either "I
welcome systemd in Debian, everything is fine" or "I don't care" to this
question and "No" to the next question.  That seemed mostly
straightforward to me, but of course YMMV.

(The shading of meaning between those two options could be clearer.  I
took it as a measure of enthusiasm and personally answered "I welcome
systemd in Debian" because, regardless of whether it becomes the default,
I'm happy to provide systemd unit files for my packages.  If I were
planning on ignoring it completely, I would have answered "I don't care.")

-- 
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org)   


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Bug#709825: ITP: node-helenus -- Apache Cassandra client implementation for Node.js

[Mike Gabriel]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Mike Gabriel 

* Package name: node-helenus
  Version : 0.6.2
  Upstream Author : SimpleReach 
* URL : https://github.com/simplereach/helenus
* License : Expat
  Programming Lang: Javascript
  Description : Apache Cassandra client implementation for Node.js

 Apache Cassandra is a no-SQL database. Helenus is a module that provides
 a Cassandra client implementation for Node.js.
 .
 Helenus has full CQL support and (growing) support for thrift (non-CQL)
 commands.


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Bug#709834: ITP: node-clean-css -- A Node.js module for minifying CSS files

[Mike Gabriel]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Mike Gabriel 

* Package name: node-clean-css
  Version : 1.0.4
  Upstream Author : Jakub Pawlowicz 
* URL : https://github.com/GoalSmashers/clean-css
* License : Expat
  Programming Lang: Javascript
  Description : A Node.js module for minifying CSS files

 Clean-css is a node.js module for minifying CSS files. It does the same job as
 YUI Compressor's CSS minifier, but much faster thanks to many speed
 optimizations and Node.js' V8 engine.


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Re: Debian development and release: always releasable (essay)

[Petter Reinholdtsen]

[Russ Allbery]
> I would need to do some research, since I'm not personally familiar
> with everything that's in a blend or a task at the moment.  Just off
> the top of my head, though, to pick an area of personal expertise, I
> don't think there's an existing blend or task for a Kerberos KDC or,
> more generally, an authentication and identity management
> infrastructure.

Actually, I believe there is.  The Debian Edu blend contain the
education-main-server task and metapackage, which include a Kerberos
KDC.  It also contain the LDAP server as KDC backend storage and
user/group/etc lookup.

-- 
Happy hacking
Petter Reinholdtsen


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Bug#709838: ITP: node-tinycolor -- No-fuzz, barebone, zero muppetry color module for Node.js

[Mike Gabriel]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Mike Gabriel 

* Package name: node-tinycolor
  Version : 0.0.1
  Upstream Author : Einar Otto Stangvik 
* URL : https://github.com/einaros/tinycolor
* License : Expat
  Programming Lang: Javascript
  Description : No-fuzz, barebone, zero muppetry color module for Node.js

 Tinycolor provides color name definitions for colorizing ANSI output on
 TTY-like terminals.
 .
 Colorization can be disabled by setting the NOCOLOR environment variable.


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Bug#709851: ITP: silversearcher-ag-el -- Emacs frontend to ag

[Hajime MIZUNO]

Package: wnpp
Owner: Hajime Mizuno 
Severity: wishlist
X-Debbugs-CC: debian-devel@lists.debian.org, debian-emac...@lists.debian.org

* Package name: silversearcher-ag-el
  Version : 0.21
  Upstream Author : Wilfred Hughes 
* URL : https://github.com/Wilfred/ag.el
* License : GPL-3+
  Programming Lang: elisp
  Description : Emacs frontend to ag
The Silver Searcher(a.k.a. ag) is very fast grep-like program.
It is faster and has an attractive features than grep.
ag.el is simple ag frontend for Emacs, loosely based on ack-and-half.el.

--
Regards,

Hajime Mizuno 
Key fingerprint = 9B07 B934 B70C 8482 8892 E276 502E 0713 4EEF 9E8D


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Cox v

[Pamela Moody]