Re: Changes to Debian Maintainer upload permissions

2012-09-23 Thread Guillem Jover
Hi!

On Sat, 2012-09-22 at 10:06:35 +0200, Ansgar Burchardt wrote:
> This new interface replaces the old DMUA field. The old field will stop
> working on the 24th of November 2012, from then on only packages
> explicitly granted upload permission to their DMs using the interface
> described here will pass the DM check.

Cool! I've now locally queued a patch removing support for the field
from dpkg, which will be included in the first 1.17.x version uploaded
(to experimental) after the date the field stops being honoured on the
archive side.

thanks,
guillem


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Re: nacl and CPU frequency.

2012-09-23 Thread Bastian Blank
On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 03:28:50PM +0100, peter green wrote:
> In order to build successfully nacl needs to determine the CPU
> frequency (the CPU frequency determined at build time is not used in
> the final binaries afaict but if it's not determined then the build
> will fail as it will consider the implementation broken and if it
> can't find any non-broken implementations it won't build).

What does it use this information for? With current CPUs, this value is
neither fixed over time, nor really meaningful.

If you want to have accurate timing, use the monotonic clock.

Bastian

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Re: nacl and CPU frequency.

2012-09-23 Thread Thomas Preud'homme
Le dimanche 23 septembre 2012 01:42:01, Ben Hutchings a écrit :
> 
> So the build process is trying to determine which method will work?
> Then what if it settles on some method that is available on the build
> machine's kernel, but not the target distribution's kernel?  I think you
> need to either (1) make it defer this to run-time or (2) force the
> decision at build-time, and be conservative.

If I understood correctly he is ready to patch the build system to use a 
specific method for this precise reason but is asking which method would work 
on all Debian system.


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Re: nacl and CPU frequency.

2012-09-23 Thread Tollef Fog Heen
]] "Thomas Preud'homme" 

> If I understood correctly he is ready to patch the build system to use a 
> specific method for this precise reason but is asking which method would work 
> on all Debian system.

Detect it at runtime and choose the appropriate method then?

(Not that CPU frequency is constant at runtime either, mind.)

-- 
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Re: nacl and CPU frequency.

2012-09-23 Thread Russell Coker
On Sun, 23 Sep 2012, "Thomas Preud'homme"  wrote:
> Le dimanche 23 septembre 2012 01:42:01, Ben Hutchings a écrit :
> > So the build process is trying to determine which method will work?
> > Then what if it settles on some method that is available on the build
> > machine's kernel, but not the target distribution's kernel?  I think you
> > need to either (1) make it defer this to run-time or (2) force the
> > decision at build-time, and be conservative.
> 
> If I understood correctly he is ready to patch the build system to use a
> specific method for this precise reason but is asking which method would
> work on all Debian system.

How can build-time recognition of CPU features be useful in any way for 
Debian?  We can usually be certain that most systems which run the code will 
have different CPUs to the system used for building.

If hard-coding the number to some reasonable value isn't good enough then code 
needs to be written to detect it at run-time.

-- 
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Packages removing alternatives on upgrade

2012-09-23 Thread Jakub Wilk
Many packages remove alternatives on upgrade, only to re-add them later, 
potentially discarding manual choices of the user.


See also bug #71621.

--
Jakub Wilk
Aaron M. Ucko 
   ncbi-tools-x11 (U)

Abou Al Montacir 
   fp-compiler-2.6.0 (U)
   fp-ide-2.6.0 (U)
   fp-utils-2.6.0 (U)

Adam Borowski 
   chameleon-cursor-theme

Alberto Garcia 
   fuse-emulator-gtk
   fuse-emulator-sdl

Albin Tonnerre 
   e17 (U)

Alejandro Rios P. 
   op-panel (U)

Alexander Sack 
   browser-plugin-gnash (U)

Alexander Zangerl 
   gnuserv

Andrew Lee (李健秋) 
   lxsession (U)
   lxterminal (U)

Aron Xu 
   fcitx (U)

Asias He 
   ibus (U)

Barry Hawkins 
   liblucene2-java (U)

Bdale Garbee 
   dump

Cameron Dale 
   bittornado
   bittornado-gui

Carlos Laviola 
   fp-compiler-2.6.0
   fp-ide-2.6.0
   fp-utils-2.6.0

Changwoo Ryu 
   imhangul-common (U)
   nabi (U)
   qimhangul-qt4 (U)

Chris Boyle 
   aewm++
   sapphire

Chris Lawrence 
   pybliographer

Christophe Monniez 
   sleuthkit (U)

Ciaran Anscomb 
   evilwm

Clint Adams 
   freeciv-client-gtk (U)
   freeciv-client-sdl (U)
   freeciv-client-xaw3d (U)

Cristian Greco 
   sleuthkit (U)

Daiki Ueno 
   ibus (U)

Damien Raude-Morvan 
   icedtea-6-plugin (U)
   icedtea-7-plugin (U)

Daniel Baumann 
   traceroute

Daniel Baumann 
   lxsession (U)
   lxterminal (U)

Daniel Moerner 
   scheme48

Daniel Schepler 
   xzip

David Paleino 
   webkit-image-gtk
   webkit-image-qt

Debian Flash Maintainers 
   browser-plugin-lightspark

Debian Flash Team 
   browser-plugin-gnash

Debian Forensics 
   sleuthkit

Debian freesmartphone.org Team 
   vala-terminal

Debian Games Team 
   freeciv-client-gtk
   freeciv-client-sdl
   freeciv-client-xaw3d
   gargoyle-free
   love
   nethack-console
   nethack-x11
   yabause-gtk
   yabause-qt

Debian GNOME Maintainers 
   gedit

Debian Haskell Group 
   ghc

Debian Java Maintainers 
   ecj
   liblucene2-java

Debian Korean L10N 
   imhangul-common
   nabi
   qimhangul-qt4

Debian LXDE Maintainers 
   lxsession
   lxterminal

Debian Med Packaging Team 
   ncbi-tools-x11

Debian Pkg-e Team 
   e17

Debian QA Group 
   elvis
   elvis-console
   elvis-tools
   ircii

Debian Tcl/Tk Packagers 
   tcl
   tk

Debian VoIP Team 
   op-panel

Didier Raboud 
   browser-plugin-lightspark (U)

Eduard Bloch 
   icewm
   icewm-experimental
   icewm-lite

Emilio Pozuelo Monfort 
   valac-0.14 (U)
   valac-0.16 (U)

Erik de Castro Lopo 
   ghc (U)

Erik Schanze 
   unrar-free (U)

Evgeni Golov 
   yabause-gtk (U)
   yabause-qt (U)

Francesco Paolo Lovergine 
   tcl (U)
   tk (U)

Gabriele Giacone <1o5g4...@gmail.com>
   browser-plugin-gnash (U)

Giuseppe Iuculano 
   tcptraceroute

GOTO Masanori 
   lv

HIGUCHI Daisuke (VDR dai) 
   uim-xim

IME Packaging Team 
   fcitx
   gcin
   hime
   ibus

Jan Lübbe 
   e17 (U)

Jari Aalto 
   jwm
   leafpad
   levee

Jeff Breidenbach 
   liblucene2-java (U)

Jelmer Vernooij 
   tdb-tools

Joachim Breitner 
   ghc (U)
   vala-terminal (U)

Joachim Wiedorn 
   libfox-1.6-dev

Joerg Jaspert 
   muddleftpd

Jordi Mallach 
   freeciv-client-gtk (U)
   freeciv-client-sdl (U)
   freeciv-client-xaw3d (U)

Josip Rodin 
   maildrop

Josselin Mouette 
   gedit (U)

Karl Goetz 
   freeciv-client-gtk (U)
   freeciv-client-sdl (U)
   freeciv-client-xaw3d (U)

Keita Maehara 
   kinput2-canna
   kinput2-canna-wnn
   kinput2-wnn

Kenshi Muto 
   im-switch (U)

Kilian Krause 
   op-panel (U)

Kiwamu Okabe 
   uim-xim (U)

Krystian Wlosek 
   z88dk-bin

Kurt Roeckx 
   epic4
   epic4-script-lice
   epic5
   epic5-script-lice

Lennart Weller 
   libtxc-dxtn-s2tc0

LI Daobing 
   ibus (U)

Lincoln de Sousa 
   fcmp

Loic Minier 
   valac-0.14 (U)
   valac-0.16 (U)

Luca Bruno 
   uzbl

Maintainers of Vala packages 
   valac-0.14
   valac-0.16

Marc-Andre Lureau 
   valac-0.14 (U)
   valac-0.16 (U)

Marcin Owsiany 
   potool

Mark Brown 
   fort77

Martin Zobel-Helas 
   tcptraceroute (U)

Matthias Klose 
   bash
   ecj (U)
   fastjar

Matthias Klose 
   icedtea-6-plugin (U)
   icedtea-7-plugin (U)

Michael Biebl 
   gedit (U)

Michael Janssen 
   bittorrent
   bittorrent-gui

Michael Koch 
   liblucene2-java (U)

Michael Piefel 
   tkinfo

Michal Čihař 
   geeqie

Miriam Ruiz 
   browser-plugin-gnash (U)
   love (U)

Nanakos Chrysostomos 
   mpg321

Neil Roeth 
   openjade
   openjade1.3

Neutron Soutmun 
   xiterm+thai

Niko Tyni 
   jzip

Nobuhiro Iwamatsu 
   uim-xim (U)

Olly Betts 
   libwxbase2.8-dbg (U)
   libwxbase2.8-dev (U)
   libwxgtk2.8-dbg (U)
   libwxgtk2.8-dev (U)
   python-wxgtk2.8 (U)

OpenJDK Team 
   icedtea-6-plugin
   icedtea-7-plugin

Osamu Aoki 
   ibus (U)
   im-switch
   maildrop (U)

Paweł Więcek 
   pgpgpg

Pedro Ribeiro 
   poedit

Peter Michael Green 
   fp-compiler-2.6.0 (U)
   fp-ide-2.6.0 (U)
   fp-utils-2.6.0 (U)

Philipp Kaluza 
   vala-terminal (U)

Piotr Roszatycki 
   z88dk-bin (U)

Rene Engelhard 
   liblucene2-java (U)

Rolf Leggewie 
   scim

Ron Lee 
   libwxbase2.8-dbg (U)
   libwxbase2.8-dev (U)
  

Re: Packages removing alternatives on upgrade

2012-09-23 Thread Josselin Mouette
Le dimanche 23 septembre 2012 à 13:49 +0200, Jakub Wilk a écrit : 
> Many packages remove alternatives on upgrade, only to re-add them later, 
> potentially discarding manual choices of the user.

Thanks for the report.

> Josselin Mouette 
>gedit (U)

I’ve fixed it in the SVN.

-- 
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: :' :
`. `'
  `-


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Re: Changes to Debian Maintainer upload permissions

2012-09-23 Thread Joerg Jaspert
On 12978 March 1977, Joachim Breitner wrote:

> Would it be possible to extend the syntax to specify lists of packages
> not by name, but by Maintainer, e.g. pkg-haskell-maintainers@l.a.d.o?

Not with the current setup. We have a m:n relation between DMs and
source packages. It's an interesting idea though, but then also not
really what DM is about.

The DM flag (and in future ACL) shows that one trusts that one DM to do
a good job on that one package. Extending it like "this DM may upload
all packages of [whateverbiglist]" is just wrong.

> (Of course this is just convenience and can already be achieved by a
> small script that generates the list of packages.)

Yeah, but please don't. Sillyness like "all of our team packages are
always for all DMs of us" is really working against the system, IMO.
If you want people to have upload rights for such large sets, make them
DD. DM is for people interested in small(er) style maintenance.

-- 
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Hardware...


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Re: Changes to Debian Maintainer upload permissions

2012-09-23 Thread Joachim Breitner
Hi,

Am Sonntag, den 23.09.2012, 15:59 +0200 schrieb Joerg Jaspert:
> The DM flag (and in future ACL) shows that one trusts that one DM to do
> a good job on that one package. Extending it like "this DM may upload
> all packages of [whateverbiglist]" is just wrong.
> 
> > (Of course this is just convenience and can already be achieved by a
> > small script that generates the list of packages.)
> 
> Yeah, but please don't. Sillyness like "all of our team packages are
> always for all DMs of us" is really working against the system, IMO.
> If you want people to have upload rights for such large sets, make them
> DD. DM is for people interested in small(er) style maintenance.

I wouldn’t say it is plain wrong; there are certainly exceptions. All
(library )packages by the DHG have identical packaging issues – if
someone is able to do a good job on one of them, he is able to do a good
job of all of them. Also, the real time-consuming work for us is when we
need to upload all >450 packages with no source change, or a trivial
one. I am certainly looking forward to distribute the load not only on
the DDs but also on the DMs.

Greetings,
Joachim
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Re: Packages removing alternatives on upgrade

2012-09-23 Thread Ivan Shmakov
> Jakub Wilk  writes:

[Cross-posting to packages@qa, for elvis is maintained by the QA
group.]

 > Many packages remove alternatives on upgrade, only to re-add them
 > later, potentially discarding manual choices of the user.

 > See also bug #71621.

[…]

 > Debian QA Group 
 >elvis
 >elvis-console
 >elvis-tools
 >ircii

[…]

BTW, do I understand it correctly that it's just a matter of
dropping the ‘upgrade’ case from .prerm?  (Possible patch
MIME'd.)

TIA.

-- 
FSF associate member #7257
--- debian/elvis-console.prerm.~1~	2012-09-23 13:34:49.0 +
+++ debian/elvis-console.prerm	2012-09-23 15:24:02.0 +
@@ -3,7 +3,7 @@
 set -e
 
 case "$1" in
-upgrade|remove|deconfigure)
+remove|deconfigure)
 for app in editor ex input vi view; do
 update-alternatives --quiet --remove "$app" /usr/bin/elvis
 done
--- debian/elvis.prerm.~1~	2012-09-23 13:34:49.0 +
+++ debian/elvis.prerm	2012-09-23 15:24:02.0 +
@@ -3,7 +3,7 @@
 set -e
 
 case "$1" in
-upgrade|remove|deconfigure)
+remove|deconfigure)
 for app in editor ex input vi view; do
 update-alternatives --quiet --remove "$app" /usr/bin/elvisnox
 done
--- debian/elvis-tools.prerm.~1~	2012-09-23 13:34:49.0 +
+++ debian/elvis-tools.prerm	2012-09-23 15:24:02.0 +
@@ -3,7 +3,7 @@
 set -e
 
 case "$1" in
-upgrade|remove|deconfigure)
+remove|deconfigure)
 update-alternatives --quiet --remove ctags /usr/bin/elvtags
 ;;
 failed-upgrade)


Re: Changes to Debian Maintainer upload permissions

2012-09-23 Thread Thomas Goirand

On 09/23/2012 11:49 PM, Joachim Breitner wrote:

Also, the real time-consuming work for us is when we
need to upload all>450 packages with no source change, or a trivial
one.

Someone assigned with such task as modifying (even trivially)
and uploading 450 packages should definitively be(come) a DD.

Thomas


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Re: Changes to Debian Maintainer upload permissions

2012-09-23 Thread Joachim Breitner
Hi,

Am Montag, den 24.09.2012, 00:26 +0800 schrieb Thomas Goirand:
> On 09/23/2012 11:49 PM, Joachim Breitner wrote:
> > Also, the real time-consuming work for us is when we
> > need to upload all>450 packages with no source change, or a trivial
> > one.
> Someone assigned with such task as modifying (even trivially)
> and uploading 450 packages should definitively be(come) a DD.

I am not sure. Especially if the modifying is actually done before, in
the repo, reviewed by the team, maybe semi-automated across the packages
and all they are doing then is to manually build the packages in the
right order and upload them – I don’t see why a DM should be less
entitled to do so, or why we would want to have only DDs spend their
time on this tedious task.

(BTW, source only uploads anyone? Then I can easily do the uploads on my
own and need neither the DDs nor the DMs in my team to do what computers
can do better.)

That said, I am of course happy about every DHG-member that becomes a
DD.

Greetings,
Joachim

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Re: mass bug filing about packages manipulating/deleting shipped files

2012-09-23 Thread Darren Salt
I demand that Andreas Beckmann may or may not have written...

[snip]
> xine-ui_0.99.7-1
>   /var/lib/xine/xine.desktop

> These seem to be some state/registry/... files that are updated during
> postinst.

That and gxine.desktop (at least) are updated then because the list of
supported MIME types may vary depending on which xine-lib packages are
installed.

> What should we do with these? Unfortunately I didn't find a policy
> reference that forbids this ...

If you have better ideas concerning these, I'm listening...

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| ( ) |
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Steer clear of incorrect forms of verbs that have snuck in the language.


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Re: mass bug filing about packages manipulating/deleting shipped files

2012-09-23 Thread Michael Biebl
On 23.09.2012 19:21, Darren Salt wrote:
> I demand that Andreas Beckmann may or may not have written...
> 
> [snip]
>> xine-ui_0.99.7-1
>>   /var/lib/xine/xine.desktop
> 
>> These seem to be some state/registry/... files that are updated during
>> postinst.
> 
> That and gxine.desktop (at least) are updated then because the list of
> supported MIME types may vary depending on which xine-lib packages are
> installed.
> 
>> What should we do with these? Unfortunately I didn't find a policy
>> reference that forbids this ...
> 
> If you have better ideas concerning these, I'm listening...

you could let the xine-lib packages install corresponding desktop files
for the mime-types they support.

okular (document viewer) has a similar problem. Depending on which
features you enable during configure the list of supported mime types
varies.
The way okular solves this is to install separate desktop files [1]. If
you enable support for format x, it installs a corresponding desktop file.

A similar approach should work for xine-lib.

HTH,
Michael

[1] # ls /usr/share/applicatins/kde4/okularApplication_*
okularApplication_comicbook.desktop  okularApplication_ghostview.desktop
 okularApplication_plucker.desktop
okularApplication_dvi.desktopokularApplication_kimgio.desktop
  okularApplication_xps.desktop
okularApplication_fax.desktopokularApplication_ooo.desktop
okularApplication_fb.desktop okularApplication_pdf.desktop

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Re: packages with E: md5sum-mismatch in the archive

2012-09-23 Thread Niels Thykier
On 2012-09-20 21:03, Niels Thykier wrote:
> On 2012-09-20 18:52, Andreas Beckmann wrote:
>> On 2012-09-18 09:30, Andreas Beckmann wrote:
>>> Just to give a short impression what we can find here:
>>
>>> guile-1.6-dev_1.6.8-10.1
>>>   /usr/lib/libguile-ltdl.la
>>>   /usr/lib/libguile.la
>>>   /usr/lib/libguile-srfi-srfi-13-14-v-1.la
>>>   /usr/lib/libguile-srfi-srfi-4-v-1.la
>>>   /usr/lib/libguilereadline-v-12.la
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> Can someone do a lintian check for just this tag on the whole archive, 
>> all architectures, all releases? That's just *.deb on a full mirror :-)
>> And ports should be checked, too.
>>
>> Andreas
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>
> 
> I am doing a lintian run for amd64 + i386 on stable for starters
> (limited to md5sum-mismatch).  I think that (plus the normal sid runs)
> should cover most issues.
> 
> ~Niels
> 
> 

Full of stable amd64 + i386 is done.  Only cm-super appears in the log
and it overrides all the tags.  By the looks of it, it is the same as in
sid, so ...

~Niels



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Re: status of eligibility of dug lists on lists.debian.org

2012-09-23 Thread Stefano Zacchiroli
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 11:43:40PM -0400, Antoine Beaupré wrote:
> However, after digging through numerous documentation pages[2], it is
> now unclear to me that there is a concensus over the user of
> lists.debian.org for such local groups, even though the wiki page says
> otherwise. For example, the dug-muc (munich) request has been
> rejected[3] and the dug-nyc request seems to be on hold, mentionning
> that the proper place is on teams.debian.net[4].

Let's separate two aspects that got intermixed in the bug report you
mention.

There's been a "heated debate" between two persons about whether a
specific group ("debian muc") has decided to migrate lists to lists.d.o
or not. The tones reached in the debate are not particularly nice, and
that's something I prefer not to read in Debian bug logs. But hey,
people occasionally fight and get mad at each other, for all sorts of
reasons. Let's move on that and hope debian muc could calmly decide
where to best host their mailing lists.

But from that, it does not descend that there is no consensus on the
usage of lists.d.o for hosting local group lists. I've a flaky
connection ATM and can't find the reference, but listmasters have
decided in the past that they're fine hosting such lists, and the
*-dug-* namespace exists for precisely that purpose. Executive bottom
line: local groups lists are fine on lists.d.o.

A related matter is that of local group granularity and, as a
consequence, the "structure" of the *-dug-* namespace (is it country
based? province? city?). Listmasters have decided to implement a country
based scheme, which is why Alexander has tagged as "wontfix" the request
specific to the Munich area, even after Martin closed the bug.

I've reviewed over time the local group structure of other large Free
Software projects, and the country-based granularity is a popular one;
similarly popular is the "exception" of considering USA states as
"countries", due to the typically high population density, Free Software
penetration there, and the very large territory that would result by
considering USA as a single country (not really "local" anymore for the
common purpose of organizing F2F events).

I think it *would* make sense to consider similar exceptions also for
other cases, but it need to be done in a systematic way. Listmasters
could have people voting for group creation, as it happened back in the
usenet days (and as I think it happens for other lists). They'd also
need to have a sane naming scheme; country-vs-city naming risk becoming
pretty nasty otherwise. This is something which is up to listmasters to
decide (as they'd do the related list maintenance work), but it is
simply a matter of exceptions to a default granularity rule that already
exists. It is by no means about "hey, we don't want local group lists on
lists.d.o".


Cheers.

PS replying where you posted, but -project would've probably been a
better list for this discussion...
-- 
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Bug#688586: ITP: Diagnostic Log and Trace (DLT) -- Diagnostic Log and Trace is a collection of logging and tracing protocols commonly found in an infotainment ECU as standardized by Autosar.

2012-09-23 Thread Jeremiah C. Foster
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: "Jeremiah C. Foster" 

* Package name: Diagnostic Log and Trace (DLT)
  Version : 2.7.0
  Upstream Author : Alexander Wenzel alexander.aw.wen...@bmw.de
* URL : http://www.genivi.org/projects
* License : Mozilla Public License v2.0
  Programming Lang: C
  Description : Diagnostic Log and Trace is a collection of logging and 
tracing protocols commonly found in an infotainment ECU as standardized by 
Autosar.

 This component provides a standardised log and trace interface, based on the
standardised protocol specified in the AUTOSAR standard 4.0 DLT.
This component can be used by GENIVI components and other applications as
logging facility providing
 - the DLT shared library
 - the DLT daemon
 - the DLT daemon adaptors
 - the DLT client console utilities
 - the DLT test applications

The DLT daemon is the central component in GENIVI, which gathers all 
logs and traces from the DLT user applications. The logs and traces 
are stored optionally directly in a file in the ECU. The DLT daemon 
forwards all logs and traces to a connected DLT client.
The DLT client can send control messages to the daemon, e.g. to set 
individual log levels of applications and contexts or get the list of 
applications and contexts registered in the DLT daemon.


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Re: nacl and CPU frequency.

2012-09-23 Thread Craig Small
On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 05:29:45PM +0100, peter green wrote:
> I therefore conclude that if it's not returning elapsed times in true CPU
> cycles it probablly doesn't matter much if the supposed CPU speed and the
> real CPU speed are not exactly the same.
> 
> As such unless someone objects I plan to patch the code to fallback to
> using bogomips as a "psuedo CPU speed" if true CPU speed cannot be
> determined.
procps has been struggling with this for years, though ita mainly around
the CPU ticks versus real seconds.  If you are really bored, have a look
at some old procps bugs where this sort of thing has broken.

We've narrowed it down to a small handful of checks. The real value is
probably unknown for some devices so we just set it to a fixed value.

The point is, trying to guess this sort of stuff will probably give you
the wrong number so a "pseduo CPU speed" is probably as bad as anything
else you can come up with, so find something simple.

 - Craig
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Re: Bug#687103: ITP: maps -- OpenStreetMap client for the GNOME Desktop

2012-09-23 Thread Chris Bannister
On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 10:28:16AM +0100, Jon Dowland wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 06:45:42AM +0200, martin f krafft wrote:
> > also sprach Luca Capello  [2012.09.09.2029 +0200]:
> > > Or, if this is tightened to OSM, 'gnome-osm-maps'.
> > 
> > except the 'm' on "osm" is already a "map", so maybe osm-client.
> 
> I like dropping 'gnome', and not doubling-up map, but osm may not
> be clear enough to those who aren't intimately involved, how about
> openstreetmap-client?

If it pulls in half of GNOME when you install it, its nice to have the
name "gnome" in there somewhere.

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who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing." --- Malcolm X


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