user removal in postrm

[Alexander GQ Gerasiov]

Hi there.

I have the question about user removal in package's postrm script.

Is this correct?

I see the following scenario:

Package creates user for internal use only, and there will be no files
owned by this user left after package removal. In this case there will
be no problem if we remove user on package purge.

But some packages do not remove all files on removal. E.g. mailman or
mysql may leave it's databases, or torrent client (in system-wide
daemon mode) should not remove files it downloaded.
If such packages remove user, files will be owned by unnamed uid, and
this uid will be used by the next installed package.
I think this is not correct.

So what is the common way? I see nothing about this in Policy.

-- 
Best regards,
 Alexander GQ Gerasiov

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Re: user removal in postrm

[Lars Wirzenius]

On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 01:02:14PM +0400, Alexander GQ Gerasiov wrote:
> I have the question about user removal in package's postrm script.

http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=621833 and its merged
bugs are a discussion about changing or setting the policy on this.
The consensus is that packages should never remove the users they
create.

-- 
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/docstory/mix-1-2-albanian


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Re: upstart: please update to latest upstream version

[Adam D. Barratt]

On Sat, 2012-02-25 at 00:51 +0100, Svante Signell wrote:
> On Fri, 2012-02-24 at 15:42 -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
[...]
> Why not simply implement the early boot event driven parts in init as
> proposed earlier, and get rid of these non-portable commercial stuff.
> Are you really committed to Debian? Maybe you should work for Canonical
> or RedHat?

Please take such mail elsewhere, preferably to /dev/null.  (You may also
wish to get a little more of a clue as to some of the organisations
which employ active DDs.)

> Yes, I'm prepared to take the flames!

Debian's technical lists aren't, nor do they belong there.

Regards,

Adam


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Re: user removal in postrm

[Paul Wise]

On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 5:33 PM, Lars Wirzenius wrote:

> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=621833 and its merged
> bugs are a discussion about changing or setting the policy on this.
> The consensus is that packages should never remove the users they
> create.

I tend to think it should be fine for packages to delete
files/dirs/users that "belong" to the package.

The problem occurs when data that "belongs" to the sysadmin (and not
to the package; website data, databases, email queues etc) is stored
in directories specific to the package and with filesystem ownership
set to the user created by the package, rather than a filesystem path
and user chosen, created and managed by the sysadmin.

It would be very nice if we could separate these two cases; as a side
effect, this would solve this purging users problem. That said, I
think idea is impossible to do at present.

-- 
bye,
pabs

http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise


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Re: upstart: please update to latest upstream version

[Svante Signell]

On Sat, 2012-02-25 at 09:37 +, Adam D. Barratt wrote:
> On Sat, 2012-02-25 at 00:51 +0100, Svante Signell wrote:
> > On Fri, 2012-02-24 at 15:42 -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
> [...]
> > Why not simply implement the early boot event driven parts in init as
> > proposed earlier, and get rid of these non-portable commercial stuff.
> > Are you really committed to Debian? Maybe you should work for Canonical
> > or RedHat?
> 
> Please take such mail elsewhere, preferably to /dev/null.  (You may also
> wish to get a little more of a clue as to some of the organisations
> which employ active DDs.)

Looks like Steve is an employee of Canonical. Yes, I could have found
that out, but are you really expected to check every person submitting
to this mailing list before sending a mail to it. I don't think that
should be a requirement, this list is about Debian, who is contributing
to free software. Nevertheless, I think too much of commercial software
is enforced on the community due to company agendas. And the CLA licence
is definitely not good with respect to free software development.

> > Yes, I'm prepared to take the flames!
> 
> Debian's technical lists aren't, nor do they belong there.

I was maybe overreacting, but the main issue remains: Debian is working
according to their social contract, and the principles should not be
overridden by commercial interests. Debian main interest is and should
in the future also be focused on their users, nothing else!! 



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Re: upstart: please update to latest upstream version

[Adam D. Barratt]

On Sat, 2012-02-25 at 11:36 +0100, Svante Signell wrote:
> On Sat, 2012-02-25 at 09:37 +, Adam D. Barratt wrote:
> > On Sat, 2012-02-25 at 00:51 +0100, Svante Signell wrote:
> > > On Fri, 2012-02-24 at 15:42 -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
> > > Are you really committed to Debian? Maybe you should work for Canonical
> > > or RedHat?
> > 
> > Please take such mail elsewhere, preferably to /dev/null.  (You may also
> > wish to get a little more of a clue as to some of the organisations
> > which employ active DDs.)
> 
> Looks like Steve is an employee of Canonical. Yes, I could have found
> that out, but are you really expected to check every person submitting
> to this mailing list before sending a mail to it.

You're expected to send mails to a technical list in a manner such that
it shouldn't matter who any of the participants may or may not be
employed by or what other interests they may have.  That was the primary
point of both my and Russ's messages and one which you appear to be
continuing to miss.

If it's still not clear, then I give up.  I have more constructive
things to spend my time on, and I'm sure most other readers of the list
do too.

> > > Yes, I'm prepared to take the flames!
> > 
> > Debian's technical lists aren't, nor do they belong there.
> 
> I was maybe overreacting,

There's no "maybe" about it.

> but the main issue remains: Debian is working
> according to their social contract, and the principles should not be
> overridden by commercial interests. Debian main interest is and should
> in the future also be focused on their users, nothing else!! 

-1, trolling.  (If it wasn't intentional, you may wish to research the
history of posters attempting to justify things by invoking SC4.)

Regards,

Adam


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Re: upstart: please update to latest upstream version

[Svante Signell]

On Sat, 2012-02-25 at 10:54 +, Adam D. Barratt wrote:
> You're expected to send mails to a technical list in a manner such that
> it shouldn't matter who any of the participants may or may not be
> employed by or what other interests they may have.  That was the primary
> point of both my and Russ's messages and one which you appear to be
> continuing to miss.
> 
> If it's still not clear, then I give up.  I have more constructive
> things to spend my time on, and I'm sure most other readers of the list
> do too.

The message was of technical nature, remember? Only the last sentences
were not. And the SC4 is a fact, no doubt, regardless of how you define
trolling! 


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Re: upstart: please update to latest upstream version

[Sune Vuorela]

On 2012-02-25, Ben Hutchings  wrote:
> Of the others, I've never got the impression that they're actively
> soliciting contributions from outside the company, though I could be
> wrong.  I think free software developers rarely quibble over licences if

Qt is now actively trying to get contributions from outside the company.
And is getting quite many contributions.

Qt has worked quite a bit to get their CLA acceptable to the community.

 - for example, at the desktop summit where the CLA was brand new, KDE
   developers was actually discouraged from signing it at that time
   because there was too much wrong with it. It got fixed, and the same
   people said in october that they weren't discouraging the CLA any
   longer (and it now was up to the individual wether or not they like
   the concepts of CLA's to sign it)

And to explain why the CLA is needed.
 - Qt has already commercial customers and obligations they need to
   fulfil (mostly from before going LGPL and before trying to get
   contributions from outside)
 - Qt also has obligations to the KDE Free Qt foundation that they need
   to be able to fulfil, should that day come

Qt also has a 'stop gap' from going completely rogue, the KDE Free Qt
Foundation, who can relicense Qt into a very liberal BSD license.

> So, why do people pick on Canonical?  Partly, I think, as a reaction to
> Mark Shuttleworth's repeated arguing for copyright assignment/CLA/
> Harmony.  Partly because Canonical often presents Ubuntu and related
> software as being community projects while this licencing approach can
> be seen to undermine that.

And partly because they haven't made it clear why they need the
copyright assignment.

And partly because amongst people who has read canonicals copyright
assignments, they are part of the more evil of the copyright
assignments.


Rather than signing a copyright assignment, I_would prefer just license
my code going into such projects under MIT/X11. That's less paperwork,
and effectively gives enough rights for the receiver to commercialize on
it.


I have - with a checkbox - signed the Qt CLA and contributed two small
fixes. I haven't yet stood in the actual situation of trying to
contribute code to one of Canonical's projects. Some of my friends have,
and refused the canonical copyright assignments. Their work is now
carried as distribution patches in ubuntu.

/Sune


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Re: upstart: please update to latest upstream version

[Josselin Mouette]

Le vendredi 24 février 2012 à 18:18 -0800, Steve Langasek a écrit : 
> I can well understand why some Free Software developers would decide not to
> contribute to a project that requires copyright assignment or a copyright
> license agreement such as this one.  But it would be historical revisionism
> to suggest that having copyright held by a single company makes a project
> unsuitable to be used as the basis for work in Debian.[1]

Unsuitable, no. But I think we have enough examples to show this is bad
for a project.

One of the reasons for CUPS to evolve so slowly and to be so buggy has
clearly to do with the Apple contributor agreement. And should you be
reminded of how what the OOo community used to be before LO started?

So it should not be a blocker, but it is certainly something to take
into consideration before choosing software, when alternative exists
that is not encumbered in such a way.

Cheers,
-- 
 .''`.  Josselin Mouette
: :' :
`. `'
  `-


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Bug#661241: general: Sounds gets quiet, problem uncontrolable

[Mikko Koho]

Package: general
Severity: important
Tags: l10n

LXDE desktop, package sources are wheezy and squeeze (both because Wine doesn't
found from wheezy-archive).

Sometimes I switch sounds off from panel, when I'm trying get them back machine
is still quiet. VLC-mediaplayer and Iceweasel-browser aren't friends, when I'm
watching DVD with VLC Iceweasel gets quiet and sounds from chat are not
hearable. When I stop watching DVD, close VLC and try to comfort Iceweasel it
is still quiet :) And same is when Iceweasel has sounds, VLC is quiet.



-- System Information:
Debian Release: wheezy/sid
  APT prefers testing
  APT policy: (500, 'testing'), (500, 'stable')
Architecture: i386 (i686)

Kernel: Linux 3.2.0-1-686-pae (SMP w/1 CPU core)
Locale: LANG=fi_FI.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=fi_FI.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash



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Bug#661241: general: Sounds gets quiet, problem uncontrolable

[Jonathan Nieder]

retitle 661241 description of "general" pseudo-package is misleading (sounds 
too much like a catch-all)
reassign 661241 reportbug 6.3.1
submitter 661241 !
quit

Hi,

Mikko Koho wrote:

> Sometimes I switch sounds off from panel, when I'm trying get them back 
> machine
> is still quiet. VLC-mediaplayer and Iceweasel-browser aren't friends, when I'm
> watching DVD with VLC Iceweasel gets quiet and sounds from chat are not
> hearable. When I stop watching DVD, close VLC and try to comfort Iceweasel it
> is still quiet :) And same is when Iceweasel has sounds, VLC is quiet.

Not a general problem affecting a large number of packages in the
archive.  Reassigning to "reportbug" so its description of the
"general" pseudo-package can be fixed.  (Sandro, I imagine that
reportbug might take its descriptions of pseudo-packages from some
other source, so feel free to reassign as appropriate.)

Mikko, please contact debian-u...@lists.debian.org to narrow down the
sound problem you are experiencing and to work on a more detailed
report for the maintainer of some seemingly relevant package.  See
also [*] for some general guidelines.

Thanks and hope that helps,
Jonathan

[*] http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html



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Processed: Re: general: Sounds gets quiet, problem uncontrolable

[Debian Bug Tracking System]

Processing commands for cont...@bugs.debian.org:

> retitle 661241 description of "general" pseudo-package is misleading (sounds 
> too much like a catch-all)
Bug #661241 [general] general: Sounds gets quiet,  problem uncontrolable
Changed Bug title to 'description of "general" pseudo-package is misleading 
(sounds too much like a catch-all)' from 'general: Sounds gets quiet,  problem 
uncontrolable'
> reassign 661241 reportbug 6.3.1
Bug #661241 [general] description of "general" pseudo-package is misleading 
(sounds too much like a catch-all)
Bug reassigned from package 'general' to 'reportbug'.
Bug #661241 [reportbug] description of "general" pseudo-package is misleading 
(sounds too much like a catch-all)
Bug Marked as found in versions reportbug/6.3.1.
> submitter 661241 !
Bug #661241 [reportbug] description of "general" pseudo-package is misleading 
(sounds too much like a catch-all)
Changed Bug submitter to 'Jonathan Nieder ' from 'Mikko 
Koho '
> quit
Stopping processing here.

Please contact me if you need assistance.
-- 
661241: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=661241
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Bug#661256: ITP: libaudio-tagger-perl -- Perl module to handle audio metadata

[Alessandro Ghedini]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Alessandro Ghedini 

* Package name: libaudio-tagger-perl
  Version : 0.08
  Upstream Author : Alessandro Ghedini 
* URL : http://search.cpan.org/dist/Audio-Tagger/
* License : GPL-1+ or Artistic
  Programming Lang: C++, Perl
  Description : Perl module to handle audio metadata

Audio::Tagger is a module to read and write metadata from various types of
different audio formats. It is currently based on taglib, a library written 
in C++ which is quite fast and complete.



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Bug#661262: ITP: raintpl -- RainTPL is an open source PHP template engine, it load precompiled PHP templates.

[Kees de Jong]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Kees de Jong 

* Package name: raintpl
  Version : 2.7.1.2
  Upstream Author : Federico Ulfo 
The Rain Team 
* URL : http://www.raintpl.com/
* License : (LGPL-3+)
  Programming Lang: (PHP)
  Description : The easy and fast template engine for PHP. Rain.TPL makes
application easier to create & enables designers/developers to work better
together.



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Bug#661266: ITP: fstransform -- Tool for in-place filesystem conversion

[Giovanni Mascellani]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
X-Debbugs-CC: debian-devel@lists.debian.org

   Package name: fstransform
Version: 0.9.1
Upstream Author: Massimiliano Ghilardi 
URL: http://sourceforge.net/projects/fstransform/
License: GPL-3+
Description: Tool for in-place filesystem conversion
 fstransform is a tool to change a file-system from one format to
 another, for example from jfs/xfs/reiser to ext2/ext3/ext4, in-place
 and without the need for backup. Idea from Sergei Tzukanov (convertfs
 author), but it is fully independent code.
 .
 The current version of fstransform is fully functional, and ready for
 testing from the general public. It has been tested on the following
 file-systems, both as source and target: ext2, ext3, ext4, jfs,
 minix, reiserfs, xfs.

Thanks, Giovanni.
-- 
Giovanni Mascellani 
Pisa, Italy

Web: http://poisson.phc.unipi.it/~mascellani
Jabber: g.mascell...@jabber.org / giova...@elabor.homelinux.org



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Re: Bug#661266: ITP: fstransform -- Tool for in-place filesystem conversion

[Jakub Wilk]

* Giovanni Mascellani , 2012-02-25, 18:39:

  Package name: fstransform
   Version: 0.9.1
Upstream Author: Massimiliano Ghilardi 
   URL: http://sourceforge.net/projects/fstransform/
   License: GPL-3+
   Description: Tool for in-place filesystem conversion
fstransform is a tool to change a file-system from one format to
another, for example from jfs/xfs/reiser to ext2/ext3/ext4, in-place
and without the need for backup.


Without the need for backup, seriously? Even the README says:
| Common sense and experience tell that you should ALWAYS have a backup
| of your valuable data.
|
| This script is intended for those cases where such backup is either
| already done, or is not feasible or unnecessary, typically because the
| data is not valuable.
|
| There is ALWAYS a possibility that the script will irreversibly delete
| ALL the data on the device you run it on, even if you use
| a tested combination of filesystems.
|
| All this foreword means only one thing:
|
|   IF YOU LOSE YOUR DATA, IT IS YOUR PROBLEM.
|
| The author declines ALL responsibilities for ANY damage that may derive
| from using the programs and procedures described in this document.

--
Jakub Wilk


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Re: upstart: please update to latest upstream version

[Russ Allbery]

Josselin Mouette  writes:

> So it should not be a blocker, but it is certainly something to take
> into consideration before choosing software, when alternative exists
> that is not encumbered in such a way.

While this is true, note that the main objection to CLAs is that it limits
the potential field of contributors.  One of the other things that *also*
substantially limits the field of contributors is an upstream who is
confrontational and difficult to work with.  I'm not sure systemd can
claim the unambiguous high ground here.

It would be nice to have an alternative that has neither of those
problems, but I don't think there is one that's in widespread use and
hence getting the benefit of concentrated development.

-- 
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org)   


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Re: upstart: please update to latest upstream version

[Steve Langasek]

On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 08:08:18PM +, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 07:24:20AM +0100, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> > ]] Tzafrir Cohen 

> > > In sysv init scripts the daemon forks into the background. In upstrart
> > > and systemd it doesn't have to (or shouldn't). (not) forking requires a
> > > different command-line argument, normally. This leads to odd beasts such
> > > as safe_mysqld.

> > You can just use the --background switch to start-stop-daemon with
> > sysvinit scripts.

> It's still a different command. And anyway, very often the daemon itself
> needs to handle the PID files, which means that I can't use that.

> But more importantly, start-stop-daemon only starts and stops the daemon
> once. It's not a daemon monitor. Would there be any objection if I
> replaced init.d scripts in some of my packages with runit configs (as
> does the git daemon)?

The git daemon offers alternatives: one package with a sysvinit config, and
one with a runit config.  If that's what you have in mind, I don't think
anyone would object.  But making your server package use runit exclusively
would certainly bring objections.  If we actually believed runit was a
viable replacement for sysvinit, we could have done *that* transition well
before either upstart or systemd even existed; but we didn't, and I think
imposing runit on users of your package while Policy 9.3.2 says you should
be using sysvinit would be frowned upon.

I for one would welcome a policy discussion (i.e., on debian-policy) of how
runit fits into the larger question of preserving coherence of the Debian
system while allowing maintainers to take advantage of (or experiment with)
new innovations.

-- 
Steve Langasek   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer   to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/
slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org


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Re: upstart: please update to latest upstream version

[Tzafrir Cohen]

On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 11:36:04AM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 08:08:18PM +, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
> > On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 07:24:20AM +0100, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> > > ]] Tzafrir Cohen 
> 
> > > > In sysv init scripts the daemon forks into the background. In upstrart
> > > > and systemd it doesn't have to (or shouldn't). (not) forking requires a
> > > > different command-line argument, normally. This leads to odd beasts such
> > > > as safe_mysqld.
> 
> > > You can just use the --background switch to start-stop-daemon with
> > > sysvinit scripts.
> 
> > It's still a different command. And anyway, very often the daemon itself
> > needs to handle the PID files, which means that I can't use that.
> 
> > But more importantly, start-stop-daemon only starts and stops the daemon
> > once. It's not a daemon monitor. Would there be any objection if I
> > replaced init.d scripts in some of my packages with runit configs (as
> > does the git daemon)?
> 
> The git daemon offers alternatives: one package with a sysvinit config, and
> one with a runit config.  If that's what you have in mind, I don't think
> anyone would object.  But making your server package use runit exclusively
> would certainly bring objections.  If we actually believed runit was a
> viable replacement for sysvinit, we could have done *that* transition well
> before either upstart or systemd even existed; but we didn't, and I think
> imposing runit on users of your package while Policy 9.3.2 says you should
> be using sysvinit would be frowned upon.
> 
> I for one would welcome a policy discussion (i.e., on debian-policy) of how
> runit fits into the larger question of preserving coherence of the Debian
> system while allowing maintainers to take advantage of (or experiment with)
> new innovations.

Thanks for your reply. A few words about my motivation: Package
Asterisk, ships with a standard init.d script. But upstream prefers to
use a wrapper shell script called "safe_asterisk" (somewhat like
safe_mysqld). Currently the Debian init.d script will allow you to run
either (settings in /etc/defaults/asterisk .

Naturally a monitoring script written in shell is not idea, and it can
go wrong. The package includes example upstart and systemd configs, but
the user will have to install those manually.

I don't really like the potentially-racy wrapper script, but then again,
I can't provide a better alternative so far.

-- 
Tzafrir Cohen | tzaf...@jabber.org | VIM is
http://tzafrir.org.il || a Mutt's
tzaf...@cohens.org.il ||  best
tzaf...@debian.org|| friend


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Bug#661275: ITP: meh -- a simple, minimalist, super fast image viewer

[Ryan Tandy]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Ryan Tandy 

* Package name: meh
  Version : 0.3
  Upstream Author : John Hawthorn 
* URL : http://www.johnhawthorn.com/meh/
* License : MIT
  Programming Lang: C
  Description : a simple, minimalist, super fast image viewer

meh is a small, simple, super fast image viewer using raw XLib. It is
similar to feh, but faster and simpler.
.
meh can use ImageMagick's convert to view almost 200 file formats,
though it is slower for these formats. Built in formats are JPEG, PNG,
BMP, and netpbm.



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Re: upstart: please update to latest upstream version

[Uoti Urpala]

Russ Allbery wrote:
> While this is true, note that the main objection to CLAs is that it limits
> the potential field of contributors.  One of the other things that *also*
> substantially limits the field of contributors is an upstream who is
> confrontational and difficult to work with.  I'm not sure systemd can
> claim the unambiguous high ground here.

Is there reason to believe this would be a particular problem with
systemd? Most of the controversy I've seen surrounding Poettering has
been due to people resisting the kind of change he has championed. I
don't remember seeing much about him being "difficult to work with" in
any sense that would make it hard to contribute to systemd (though not
much to the contrary either).



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Re: upstart: please update to latest upstream version

[Cyril Brulebois]

Uoti Urpala  (26/02/2012):
> Is there reason to believe this would be a particular problem with
> systemd? Most of the controversy I've seen surrounding Poettering has
> been due to people resisting the kind of change he has championed. I
> don't remember seeing much about him being "difficult to work with" in
> any sense that would make it hard to contribute to systemd (though not
> much to the contrary either).

Working with Lennart seems as easy as having a discussion with you.

Mraw,
KiBi.


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Bug#661290: RFH: netdisco-mibs-installer

[Oliver Gorwits]

Package: wnpp
Severity: normal

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

I've been approached by someone who is willing to update this package
for the new upstream MIBs bundle, and would like them to help out.

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Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)

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A20AoJ1HBMhMLczroUFpgEUVBRkW891w
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Re: upstart: please update to latest upstream version

[Uoti Urpala]

Cyril Brulebois wrote:
> Uoti Urpala  (26/02/2012):
> > Is there reason to believe this would be a particular problem with
> > systemd? Most of the controversy I've seen surrounding Poettering has
> > been due to people resisting the kind of change he has championed. I
> > don't remember seeing much about him being "difficult to work with" in
> > any sense that would make it hard to contribute to systemd (though not
> > much to the contrary either).
> 
> Working with Lennart seems as easy as having a discussion with you.

I take it this was only a pathologically weak attempt at flaming, and
does not reflect any actual experience working with him?


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Re: Bug#660842: ITP: python-gnupg -- python wrapper for the gnupg command

[Evgeni Golov]

On 02/22/2012 10:40 AM, Elena Grandi wrote:

> * Package name: python-gnupg
>   Version : 0.2.8
>   Upstream Author : Vinay Sajip 
> * URL : http://code.google.com/p/python-gnupg/
> * License : BSD
>   Programming Lang: Python
>   Description : python wrapper for the gnupg command

What's wrong with
python-gnupginterface - Python interface to GnuPG (GPG)
python-gpgme - python wrapper for the GPGME library
python-pyme - Python interface to the GPGME GnuPG encryption library

What are the benefits of python-gnupg? The homepage doesnt tell any,
neither does the description :)

Regards
Evgeni


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Bug#661291: ITP: netdde -- Linux network drivers glued by the DDE layer

[Samuel Thibault]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Samuel Thibault 

* Package name: netdde
  Version : 0.0.20120225
  Upstream Author : GNU/Hurd maintainers
* URL : http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/
* License : GPLv2
  Programming Lang: C
  Description : Linux network drivers glued by the DDE layer

This package would ship recent (2.6.29.6 for now) Linux network drivers
for the Hurd port.  These are run in userland processes thanks to the
DDE layer and a port of ddekit provided by the hurd package.  It should
permit to completely drop the in-gnumach network drivers.



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Re: upstart: please update to latest upstream version

[Matthias Klumpp]

2012/2/26 Uoti Urpala :
> Cyril Brulebois wrote:
>> Uoti Urpala  (26/02/2012):
>> > Is there reason to believe this would be a particular problem with
>> > systemd? Most of the controversy I've seen surrounding Poettering has
>> > been due to people resisting the kind of change he has championed. I
>> > don't remember seeing much about him being "difficult to work with" in
>> > any sense that would make it hard to contribute to systemd (though not
>> > much to the contrary either).

>From talking to Lennart (I don't really work with him, so I can't
judge this), he is a understanding person if you can outline the
problem clearly. But he has a very strong view on doing things right,
e.g. writing portable code: He does not want portability patches in
systemd, because much invasive changes would be needed, making the
code more difficult to read (which might even lead to buggy code).
Therefore, discussion about areas where he already made clear that he
wouldn't support it is absolutely pointless.
Anyway, discussing other problems and code changes is constructive and
absolutely possible.
Personally, I'd consider Poettering a good upstream, one with a vision
and very strong opinions about some stuff, which is difficult
sometimes, but still someone to work with who is willing to make some
steps towards Debian too.
Please remember, I don't work with him, I just observe :P The systemd
package maintainers will know more.
In any case, as was mentioned before, these issues shouldn't have
priority now. Debian should pick the technically best solution, and
finding out which one is the best should be the priority. As soon as
this is decided somehow, we could think of how to support kFreeBSD and
all the other stuff.
Debian - as always - is extremely slow in making a decision on this,
but this time it might be an advantage: Fedora, openSUSE, Mageia, etc.
already switched to systemd (and Ubuntu, AFAIK the only distribution
using upstart at time) so we might get plenty of data on how the new
init systems behave and will face less problems when switching too.
(If this is decided)
Kind regards,
Matthias Klumpp


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Re: upstart: please update to latest upstream version

[Karl Goetz]

On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 01:19:14 +0100
Matthias Klumpp  wrote:

> 2012/2/26 Uoti Urpala :
> > Cyril Brulebois wrote:
> >> Uoti Urpala  (26/02/2012):
> >> > Is there reason to believe this would be a particular problem
> >> > with systemd? Most of the controversy I've seen surrounding
> >> > Poettering has been due to people resisting the kind of change
> >> > he has championed. I don't remember seeing much about him being
> >> > "difficult to work with" in any sense that would make it hard to
> >> > contribute to systemd (though not much to the contrary either).

> In any case, as was mentioned before, these issues shouldn't have
> priority now. Debian should pick the technically best solution, and
> finding out which one is the best should be the priority. As soon as
> this is decided somehow, we could think of how to support kFreeBSD and
> all the other stuff.

Surely what it will support (and how it will be supported) would be part
of a desision about 'technically best'?
thanks,
kk

-- 
Karl Goetz, (Kamping_Kaiser / VK7FOSS)
http://www.kgoetz.id.au
No, I won't join your social networking group


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