Re: [copy, not move of conffile] How to warn about need to port changes to new configuration file?

[Vincent Danjean]

On 18/06/2010 16:57, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:
> [Thomas Hood]
>> It is planned that an upcoming version of resolvconf will add a new
>> hook script for isc-dhcp-client which is identical to the existing one
>> for dhcp3-client.  An administrator who has made local changes to the
>> latter hook script should probably make the same changes to the
>> former.
>>
>> Is there a need to warn the administrator that he should (presumably)
>> re-implement his changes in the new file?  If so, what is the best way
>> to warn him?  Should debconf notes be used?
> 
> What about moving the file in the preinst, and/or create a symlink
> to/from the new location instead?  I mean like renaming conffiles is
> normally handled.  This way any local changes are kept, and the new
> location work without any manual intervention.

The difference here is that this is a copy, not a move, of the conffile.
The old one in resolvconf is still needed if the admin still uses
dhcp3-client. The new one (a copy of the previous one) is required for
isc-dhcp-client.
  The problem is how to handle local modification of the first conffile.
I see several possibility:
[A] unconditional warning in NEWS.Debian
[B] conditional warning (if the first conffile has been modified) with
  a debconf note
[C] copy in postinst of the first conffile to the new one, overriding
  the one provided in the package, if there has been modification in the
  first conffile.

Of courses, A, B and C can be done in any combination. A+B+C can be a
good solution...

  Regards,
Vincent

> Happy hacking,


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Re: [copy, not move of conffile] How to warn about need to port changes to new configuration file?

[Julien Cristau]

On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 10:20:49 +0200, Vincent Danjean wrote:

> The difference here is that this is a copy, not a move, of the conffile.

So you use cp instead of mv.  Where's the problem exactly?

Cheers,
Julien


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Re: [copy, not move of conffile] How to warn about need to port changes to new configuration file?

[Petter Reinholdtsen]

[Vincent Danjean]
> The difference here is that this is a copy, not a move, of the conffile.

That is why I suggested to use a symlink too.

This I would propose to move the conffile to the new location, and add
a symlink in the old location to the new location, or just add a
symlink to the old location in the new location.  Sorry if I failed to
make this clear.

Happy hacking,
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Re: [RFC] Updating boot loaders in lenny and squeeze

[Joachim Wiedorn]

Hello,

Ben Hutchings  wrote on 2010-06-19 03:55:

> However, given that route B is present in both lenny and squeeze (and
> even in etch, I think) there is no good reason for packages not to rely
> on it now.  (Well, except lack of documentation.)  All boot loader
> packages that fall into case 1 or 2 should be installing hook scripts,
> but currently only extlinux does.  I intend to remove the vestigial code
> for route A, and file bugs on all boot loaders in case 1 or 2 that do
> not use route B.

It seems this is the first step for optimizing lilo. I have checked the
sources for extlinux (package syslinux) and the scripts appears to be
simple.

> In case 1, the boot loader should also be called by update-initramfs
> when it is called outside of kernel package installation and removal.
> This is normally covered by route D, but this seems a little fragile.  I

I have tested this behaviour with a hook script for update-initramfs. 
There is still a problem: Until now in the script is a check about which
bootloader is active. Only if no grub is installed then the script starts
lilo after install/update/remove of initrd's. But this feature shall go
away and then a hook script for update-initramfs is a good solution
(in /etc/initramfs-tools/hooks/).

Over all - thanks for you very detailed information. Now I think the lilo
package can better maintained again.

Have a nice day,

Joachim (Germany)



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New LILO upstream development

[Joachim Wiedorn]

Hello,


After the long silence about the popular bootloader LILO the development
was started again.

The new Homepage can be found here:
http://lilo.alioth.debian.org/

For the development of the bootloader I have started an Alioth project
with Git repository and Mailinglist:
http://alioth.debian.org/projects/lilo/

The next version is in work: LILO 23.0 


Have a nice day,

Joachim (Germany)


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Re: New LILO upstream development

[Bjørn Mork]

Joachim Wiedorn  writes:

> After the long silence about the popular bootloader LILO the development
> was started again.
>
> The new Homepage can be found here:
> http://lilo.alioth.debian.org/
>
> For the development of the bootloader I have started an Alioth project
> with Git repository and Mailinglist:
> http://alioth.debian.org/projects/lilo/

Nice.  And thus I learned about bug #573736

$ git clone https://alioth.debian.org/anonscm/git/lilo/lilo.git
Initialized empty Git repository in /usr/local/src/git/lilo/.git/
error: server certificate verification failed. CAfile: 
/etc/ssl/certs/ca-certificates.crt while accessing 
https://alioth.debian.org/anonscm/git/lilo/lilo.git/info/refs

fatal: HTTP request failed

Maybe someone could fix the certificate chain sorting on alioth?



Bjørn


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Re: New LILO upstream development

[Patryk Cisek]

On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 12:39:53PM +0200, Bjørn Mork wrote:
> Maybe someone could fix the certificate chain sorting on alioth?
In the meantime you can either:
$ GIT_SSL_NO_VERIFY=1 git clone
https://alioth.debian.org/anonscm/git/lilo/lilo.git

or:
$ git clone git://git.debian.org/lilo/lilo.git

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Re: PLEASE ADD MY EMAIL ID

[Mark Raghnall]

Hi all
I am a freelancer(Link building) and looking for other freelancer to work
together.
Please contact through mail.
Thanks
Mark

Re: [copy, not move of conffile] How to warn about need to port changes to new configuration file?

[Vincent Danjean]

On 19/06/2010 10:44, Julien Cristau wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 10:20:49 +0200, Vincent Danjean wrote:
> 
>> The difference here is that this is a copy, not a move, of the conffile.
> 
> So you use cp instead of mv.  Where's the problem exactly?

Should local modifications to the first script be reported in the second
one automatically ?
Should there be a warning (debconf, ...) ?
...
(ie all what I said in my previous mail)

> Cheers,
> Julien


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Re: Bug#535830: ITP: php-recaptcha -- reCAPTCHA is a free CAPTCHA service

[Thomas Goirand]

Angel Abad (Ikusnet SLL) wrote:
> Package: wnpp
> Severity: wishlist
> Owner: "Angel Abad (Ikusnet SLL)" 
> 
> 
> * Package name: php-recaptcha
>   Version : 1.10
>   Upstream Author : reCAPTCHA -- http://recaptcha.net
> * URL : http://recaptcha.net
> * License : MIT
>   Programming Lang: Php
>   Description : reCAPTCHA is a free CAPTCHA service
> 
> A CAPTCHA is a program that can tell whether its user is a human or a
> computer. You've probably seen them  colorful images with distorted
> text at the bottom of Web registration forms. CAPTCHAs are used by
> many websites to prevent abuse from "bots," or automated programs
> usually written to generate spam. No computer program can read
> distorted text as well as humans can, so bots cannot navigate sites
> protected by CAPTCHAs.
> .
> This package contains the php recaptcha library.

Hi,

I wrote it to the pkg-php list, but I want to write it to -devel as
well, to have the opinions of others. I don't think packaging something
working with a foreign website that provides a functionality that the
user is supposed to run on its own website is compatible with the
freeness of Debian, and matches the DFSG and social contract.

Clearly, something like recaptcha, we don't own it, and we wont ever
have the source code that they use. This is more than closed than a
closed source app: we don't even have the binary for it, we only rely on
the service of a website, that may well one day be gone (who knows?).
This type of software doesn't pass any of the Debian freeness tests
(desert island, dissident, tentacles of evil).

I wouldn't mind if there was no alternative. I wouldn't mind also if
such a functionality couldn't be made by ourself, standalone. Facts are:
we don't need at all the recaptcha.net site to display Turring tests
images and there ARE some alternatives available (well, at least one for
this php module as you can see below, and there must be some more on the
wild (eg: hidden in the deepness of internet)).

I knew about recaptcha, I know it does things better than the modules
that I describe below, but still, the non-freeness (in the Debian
spirit) of recaptcha pushed me to fill the following ITPs:

- php-image-text
- php-numbers-words
- php-text-figlet
- php-text-psasword
- php-text-captcha

There are all available from here:

http://ftparchive.gplhost.com/debian/pool/lenny/main/p/

I will upload them in Debian as soon as I have my Debian accounts
created (as I found nobody willing to spend some time to do sponsoring,
and that anyway I believe it wont take must time until I get my Debian
Developer accounts ready since it's been 3 weeks my DAM approved me).

The last of the above packages needs the other above 4 other php
packages as dependencies. This solution is a lot more free than
php-recaptcha, IMHO. I think that the best way would be to convince the
authors of CiviCRM to use php-text-captcha instead of recaptcha, at
least as an alternative solution.

In short: anyway you put it, I don't like the idea of adding
php-recaptcha in the archive, because I don't think it's really free. Am
I the only person thinking this way?

Thomas


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RFA: a lot of packages

[Ola Lundqvist]

Hi fellow debian developers

I have found out that I have less time for Debian than before.
Therefore I would like someone to take over some of my packages.
You can see the list of RFA bugs that I have submitted to
WNPP.

Bug#586406: RFA: countrycodes
Bug#586408: RFA: ledcontrol -- scriptable keyboard led control
Bug#586410: RFA: ntop -- display network usage in top-like format
Bug#586411: RFA: pnscan -- Multi threaded port scanner
Bug#586412: RFA: primaxscan -- Primax Colorado Direct scanner software
Bug#586413: RFA: tightvnc -- virtual network computing server software
Bug#586414: RFA: vnc4 -- Virtual network computing server software
Bug#586415: RFA: tightvnc-java -- TightVNC java applet and command line
Bug#586416: RFA: vnc-java -- VNC java applet and command line program
Bug#586418: RFA: lightspeed -- Shows how objects moving at relativistic...
Bug#586422: RFA: x2vnc -- A dual-screen hack - link an MS-Windows and X...

Just to inform. I'm not interested in sponsoring someone. It usually
take about the same time for me as maintaining it myself. Sorry. :-)

Best regards,

// Ola

PS. I'm not subscribed to debian-devel, so please Cc me if you want
me to answer.
DS.

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Re: RFA: a lot of packages

[Ben Armstrong]

On 19/06/10 11:55 AM, Ola Lundqvist wrote:

Bug#586413: RFA: tightvnc -- virtual network computing server software
Bug#586414: RFA: vnc4 -- Virtual network computing server software
   


Although I cannot take on sole maintainership, I'm interested in the 
survival of the best VNC server and client in Debian.  If a team can be 
put together, I would be happy to contribute in what small ways I can.


What about eventual replacement by TigerVNC (http://tigervnc.org/), 
since upstream for that fork is actually active?


Ben


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Re: Indicator applets and related packages

[Raphael Hertzog]

Hi Ted,

thanks for your answer.

On Mon, 14 Jun 2010, Ted Gould wrote:
> > I think this could be a good idea indeed. A team that would be very open
> > to the upstream Ubuntu/Canonical maintainers.
> 
> I'm unfamiliar with Debian processes so I can't comment on whether a
> team is appropriate.  But, I'd be happy to join a mailing list or answer
> questions and provide help how ever I can.  I will need some guidance on
> that though as things get setup.

Please join
http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/pkg-ayatana-devel

We have started pushing the various packages to Debian and we maintain
them with bzr builddeb to make it easy for you to continue using what
you're already familiar with.

http://bzr.debian.org/loggerhead/pkg-ayatana/

Feel free to create an account on Alioth and request to be added to the
project here ("Request to join" link):
https://alioth.debian.org/projects/pkg-ayatana/

I have some questions/comments already:

1/ what source package provides python-indicate, it looks like it's built
   both by libindicate and by indicate-python...

2/ can you merge translations available in rosetta in the upstream sources
   so that everybody benefit from the translations and not only ubuntu
   with your language packs?
   (I saw that indicator-applet has no translation, in particular
   the applet description is not translated)

Cheers,
-- 
Raphaël Hertzog

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My Debian goals: http://ouaza.com/wp/2010/01/09/debian-related-goals-for-2010/


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Re: RFA: a lot of packages

[Ola Lundqvist]

Hi Ben

On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 03:41:04PM -0300, Ben Armstrong wrote:
> On 19/06/10 11:55 AM, Ola Lundqvist wrote:
>> Bug#586413: RFA: tightvnc -- virtual network computing server software
>> Bug#586414: RFA: vnc4 -- Virtual network computing server software
>>
>
> Although I cannot take on sole maintainership, I'm interested in the  
> survival of the best VNC server and client in Debian.  If a team can be  
> put together, I would be happy to contribute in what small ways I can.
>
> What about eventual replacement by TigerVNC (http://tigervnc.org/),  
> since upstream for that fork is actually active?

I once started to package tigervnc in addition to the vnc4 and
tightvnc packages, but I had problems with crashes so I dumped
that attempt. But having an active upstream surely help in the
maintenance of the package.

Packaging of tigervnc with support for both client and server
part would be very nice. It would probably solve a few of the
current outstanding issues.

Best regards,

// Ola

> Ben
>
>

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Re: RFA: a lot of packages

[Timo Juhani Lindfors]

Ben Armstrong  writes:
> Although I cannot take on sole maintainership, I'm interested in the
> survival of the best VNC server and client in Debian.  If a team can
> be put together, I would be happy to contribute in what small ways I
> can.

I'm a daily user of vnc4server/xvnc4viewer 4.1.1+X4.3.0-31. Please let
me know if you need help in testing :-)

> What about eventual replacement by TigerVNC (http://tigervnc.org/),
> since upstream for that fork is actually active?

realvncserver, tightvncserver and vnc4server all seem to contain an
embedded copy of xfree/Xorg source code. If tigerVNC's Xorg module
actually works this sounds really promising. Any idea why it is not
developed in the Xorg tree? Is it still because Xorg does not want
GPL'd code?

The only earlier attempt on a modular Xorg vnc module I've heard about
is xf4vnc: http://xf4vnc.sourceforge.net/modular.html -- How does this
compare against TigerVNC?


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Re: RFA: a lot of packages

[Ola Lundqvist]

Hi

On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 11:50:35PM +0300, Timo Juhani Lindfors wrote:
> Ben Armstrong  writes:
> > Although I cannot take on sole maintainership, I'm interested in the
> > survival of the best VNC server and client in Debian.  If a team can
> > be put together, I would be happy to contribute in what small ways I
> > can.
> 
> I'm a daily user of vnc4server/xvnc4viewer 4.1.1+X4.3.0-31. Please let
> me know if you need help in testing :-)
> 
> > What about eventual replacement by TigerVNC (http://tigervnc.org/),
> > since upstream for that fork is actually active?
> 
> realvncserver, tightvncserver and vnc4server all seem to contain an
> embedded copy of xfree/Xorg source code. If tigerVNC's Xorg module
> actually works this sounds really promising. Any idea why it is not
> developed in the Xorg tree? Is it still because Xorg does not want
> GPL'd code?

Yes. License problems do not change over night.

> The only earlier attempt on a modular Xorg vnc module I've heard about
> is xf4vnc: http://xf4vnc.sourceforge.net/modular.html -- How does this
> compare against TigerVNC?

It compiles (with a few fixes), but I never got it working, at
least not in a compatible way to the current vnc packages.

I have not got either TigerVNC nor xf4vnc in a good enough way
for release. So I do not know.

Last try was a few (1-3 I do not remember) years ago though so
things may have changed.

Best regards,

// Ola

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Re: RFA: a lot of packages

[Serafeim Zanikolas]

Hi Ola,

On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 04:55:43PM +0200, Ola Lundqvist wrote [edited]:
> Bug#586410: RFA: ntop -- display network usage in top-like format

Has there been a resolution for possible-gpl-code-linked-with-openssl?

-S


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Re: ITP: php-recaptcha -- PHP interface to recaptcha.net

[Thomas Goirand]

Hi Mark, and thanks for your quick reply,

Mark A. Hershberger wrote:
> Thomas Goirand  writes:
> 
> These captchas are different than just generic captchas, though:
> 
> reCAPTCHA is a free CAPTCHA service that helps to digitize books,
> newspapers and old time radio shows. Check out our paper in Science
> about it 
> …
> Currently, we are helping to digitize old editions of the New York
> Times.

And why should we care about this? How does this changes the freeness of
php-recaptcha in the therms of my reasoning?

The following paragraph has nothing to do with what I wrote, but I just
have few things in mind I'd like to share, as it might help you to
understand what I have in mind.

It's not said in what you quoted what they will do with the digitized
documents, I doubt they would give it back to the people giving their
time to help this work, or give it for free to anyone. Does
recaptcha.net represent an association, or a foundation, with clearly
established goal, and freeness in mind? You and I have no clue of this.
And by the way, The New York Times, last time I checked, is owned by its
shareholders: it's a commercial entity. And to just make it 100% clear,
so we close the recaptcha.net website goal topic: this is absolutely NOT
related to what I said. They could do whatever they like with the
digitized work, in fact, they would still own recaptcha.net and be able
to do whatever change they want to the therms of service and make it a
service you'd have to pay for, or even close it altogether if they feel
like it, or even [paste whatever non-free issue you like here], and
you'd have no power to influence any of this kind of decision (and
neither would anyone at Debian).

Please read point 9 of this document:

http://people.debian.org/~bap/dfsg-faq.html

Because we don't have the source code of the captcha system itself (you
only have access to the source code of something that accesses the
online service), php-recaptcha fails all of the 3 tests when we want to
use it, which is a good indication that it shouldn't be considered free.

> Additionally, this is part of the dependencies for CiviCRM:

I have no doubts that CiviCRM must be very good, free and all. But this
must NOT influence Debian's view on the freeness of one of its
dependencies. A software is as free as its least free dependency, which
is why we have the contrib repository.

As I see it, php-recaptcha should be sent to non-free (which means
anything depending on it would go in contrib). I'd be happy to see
others expressing themselves here, in order to make sure I don't hold an
extreme view on this.

> I'm in the process of packaging CiviCRM for Debian.

Which is a great idea, thank you for this work/intention, but is
unrelated to my point.

> I don't see a problem with providing access to reCAPTCHA for those who
> want to help the Carnegie Mellon project as long as other CAPTCHA
> modules are available.

Please respond to my specific points about the freeness, and stay on
topic, otherwise the discussion will loop and we are all loosing time.
For the moment, the issue is php-recaptcha, not whoever depends on it.

If at the end I was right that php-recaptcha was non-free, you should
make it so that CiviCRM doesn't REQUIRES php-recaptcha, if you feel like
it set php-recaptcha as a Suggest: (and not a Depends:), make it so
php-recaptcha is uploaded to non-free, have other modules of CiviCRM be
activated by default, and everyone is happy.

Thomas


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Re: Essentiality of Bash

[jidanni]

I don't get it. Even booting still requires bash
$ find grub* -executable|xargs checkbashisms #grub-pc 1.98+20100617-1
script grub-common.preinst is already a bash script; skipping
script grub-pc.postinst is already a bash script; skipping
script grub-pc.postrm is already a bash script; skipping
script grub-pc.prerm is already a bash script; skipping
Despite apparent efforts to clean it out
http://www.google.com/search?q=bashisms+grub+site:bugs.debian.org


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Re: ITP: php-recaptcha -- PHP interface to recaptcha.net

[Samuel Thibault]

Thomas Goirand, le Sun 20 Jun 2010 09:06:28 +0800, a écrit :
> As I see it, php-recaptcha should be sent to non-free (which means
> anything depending on it would go in contrib). I'd be happy to see
> others expressing themselves here, in order to make sure I don't hold an
> extreme view on this.

I agree with you on this.

Samuel


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What is the codename of the current stable release?

[jidanni]

In  Debian Project News - June 14th, 2010
> "AR" == Alexander Reichle-Schmehl  writes:
AR> Debian Community Poll
AR> The Poll is available at http://tinyurl.com/3y33ska . Torsten asks to
AR> spread the link to as many users as possible.

And there at tinyurl, we read

|What is the codename of the current stable release? * This question
|should block spammers from filling out the form. You have to enter the
|correct answer for taking part in the poll. [   ]

The fun thing is I failed the test because I never can keep track of
those name changes, probably because I'm

|How long have you been using Debian?
|
|  * ( ) 0 - 2 years
|  * ( ) 2 - 5 years
|  * ( ) 6 - 10 years
=> * ( ) more than 10 years

Anyway, I don't actually wish to know the codename of the current stable
release. All I know is I use sid/unstable, and also experimental, and
there is also stable and testing. The other fly-by-night names are hard
to remember, and (my point is:) it would be neat indeed if wherever they
appear through the project, they we accompanied by (testing) or
(stable). E.g., http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/ forces one
to research which name is what.


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Re: ITP: php-recaptcha -- PHP interface to recaptcha.net

[Ansgar Burchardt]

Thomas Goirand  writes:

> Please read point 9 of this document:
>
> http://people.debian.org/~bap/dfsg-faq.html
>
> Because we don't have the source code of the captcha system itself (you
> only have access to the source code of something that accesses the
> online service), php-recaptcha fails all of the 3 tests when we want to
> use it, which is a good indication that it shouldn't be considered
> free.

Those tests are intended to be check the license of a software for
DFSG-freeness.  php-recaptcha's license (MIT license) passes all these.

> As I see it, php-recaptcha should be sent to non-free (which means
> anything depending on it would go in contrib). I'd be happy to see
> others expressing themselves here, in order to make sure I don't hold an
> extreme view on this.

The DFSG does *not* require that network services that are accessed are
available under a free license (or that the server software must even be
included in Debian as well).  There are only requirements on the
software that Debian distributes itself.

If you do think otherwise, please explain how software licensed under
one one the licenses explicitly listed as "free" in the DFSG can
suddenly become non-free.  Which point of the DFSG is no longer
fulfilled?

Compare with the various clients for proprietary instant messengers,
YouTube, other Google services, ...: The server software is not
available for any of these either.

Regards,
Ansgar


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