Re: Downgrading a package to get it into upcoming release

[Raphael Hertzog]

On Tue, 16 Feb 2010, Antonin Kral wrote:
> Epochs as well as +reverted will definitely work but looks a bit too
> hackish to me.

Epochs have been designed precisely for this. It's not hackish... but they
are somewhat ugly and some users do not understand them.

Cheers,
-- 
Raphaël Hertzog

Like what I do? Sponsor me: http://ouaza.com/wp/2010/01/05/5-years-of-freexian/
My Debian goals: http://ouaza.com/wp/2010/01/09/debian-related-goals-for-2010/


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Re: Status of systemtap in Debian

[Lucas Nussbaum]

On 16/02/10 at 22:17 +0100, Kurt Roeckx wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 09:13:06PM +0100, Lucas Nussbaum wrote:
> > 
> > - disk space on buildds: at least 2 GiB are required to build a kernel
> >   with debuginfo. (that doesn't sound too hard to satisfy)
> 
> There currently are packages that require more diskspace than
> that, for instance the linux-2.6 package on i386 uses 4.7 GB,
> while it uses 2.6 GB on amd64.
> 
> I guess it requires an additional 450 MB per kernel flavor
> or maybe a multiple of that for temporary files that also
> contain that?
> 
> The biggest package I could find in a short time seem to be:
> qt4-x11:7818730k (8058048k latest)
> openoffice.org: 7652264k (7629368k latest)
> openjdk-6:  7152062k (7443004k latest)
> linux-2.6:  4707725k (6319992k latest)
> opencascade:4619392k (4619392k latest)
> wxwidgets2.8:   4215131k (4297664k latest)
> ghc6:   4015377k (4689676k latest)
> slicer: 3680980k (3680980k latest)
> gcc-snapshot:   3663284k (3663284k latest)
> pyside: 3548760k (3548760k latest)
> boost1.38:  3497562k (3630040k latest)
> 
> (This is acros several arches.)
> 
> Do you know if there is any cost in cpu time for this?

At build time, of course, generating the debug info takes more time.

At run time, I don't think that a kernel built with CONFIG_KPROBES and
CONFIG_DEBUGINFO has any overhead, at least on i386/amd64 (remember that
all other distros ship KPROBES-enabled kernels). Since it depends on the
implementation of kprobes, which is architecture-specific, it is
possible that there is an overhead on some architectures.

- Lucas


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Re: Status of systemtap in Debian

[Bastian Blank]

On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 10:17:27PM +0100, Kurt Roeckx wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 09:13:06PM +0100, Lucas Nussbaum wrote:
> > 
> > - disk space on buildds: at least 2 GiB are required to build a kernel
> >   with debuginfo. (that doesn't sound too hard to satisfy)
> There currently are packages that require more diskspace than
> that, for instance the linux-2.6 package on i386 uses 4.7 GB,
> while it uses 2.6 GB on amd64.

This is a misinterpretation of my data. The effective space requirement
is raised by factor 10 with debugging information.

> Do you know if there is any cost in cpu time for this?

For the build it is marginal. Until the size themself produces cpu
usage, e.g. with ccache, which at least I use often to shorten the build
time. On runtime it also seems negligible, at least on powerpc, s390 and
x86, it adds a hook into the fault handler for kernel addresses.

Bastian

-- 
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-- Lt. Carolyn Palamas, "Who Mourns for Adonais?",
   stardate 3468.1.


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Bug#570200: ITP: openvanilla-modules - moudules of openvanilla input method

[Aron Xu]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
X-Debbugs-CC: debian-devel@lists.debian.org

Package name: openvanilla-modules
Version: 0.8.0.14
Upstream Author: Mat 
URL: http://code.google.com/p/ucimf
License: GPL
Description: moudules of openvanilla input method



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Bug#570202: ITP: ucimf-openvanilla - openvanilla input method collection for ucimf

[Aron Xu]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
X-Debbugs-CC: debian-devel@lists.debian.org

Package name: ucimf-openvanilla
Version: 2.10.5
Upstream Author: Mat 
URL: http://code.google.com/p/ucimf
License: GPL
Description: openvanilla input method collection for ucimf



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RFH: Re: Bug#570056: iceweasel: SIGSEGV - nsDOMEvent::AddRef

[Mike Hommey]

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 07:33:19AM +0100, Sandro Tosi wrote:
> > Other than that, with your core file, could you at least get (and send)
> > the output for disassemble, info registers, and info locals ?
> 
> Attached.

There definitely is something weird going on, because according to the
value in the rip register, the two first instructions of the function
have been executed. And the second should have set rax to 2. But rax is
definitely not 2, while rsp is ! And rsp is the stack pointer, so when
pushing on the third instruction, no wonder it segfaults.
But how on earth can "mov $0x2,%eax" lead to rsp being modified ?

Would someone have a better explanation than a broken CPU ?

> Program terminated with signal 11, Segmentation fault.
> #0  nsDOMEvent::AddRef (this=0x7f6bcea877f0) at nsDOMEvent.cpp:169
> 169   nsDOMEvent.cpp: No such file or directory.
>   in nsDOMEvent.cpp
> (gdb) disassemble
> Dump of assembler code for function _ZN10nsDOMEvent6AddRefEv:
> 0x7f6c1894933c <_ZN10nsDOMEvent6AddRefEv+0>:  push   %r12
> 0x7f6c1894933e <_ZN10nsDOMEvent6AddRefEv+2>:  mov$0x2,%eax
> 0x7f6c18949343 <_ZN10nsDOMEvent6AddRefEv+7>:  push   %rbp
> 0x7f6c18949344 <_ZN10nsDOMEvent6AddRefEv+8>:  mov%rdi,%rbp
> 0x7f6c18949347 <_ZN10nsDOMEvent6AddRefEv+11>: push   %rbx
> 0x7f6c18949348 <_ZN10nsDOMEvent6AddRefEv+12>: mov0x18(%rdi),%rbx
> 0x7f6c1894934c <_ZN10nsDOMEvent6AddRefEv+16>: test   %rbx,%rbx
> 0x7f6c1894934f <_ZN10nsDOMEvent6AddRefEv+19>: je 0x7f6c18949386 
> <_ZN10nsDOMEvent6AddRefEv+74>
> 0x7f6c18949351 <_ZN10nsDOMEvent6AddRefEv+21>: mov%ebx,%eax
> 0x7f6c18949353 <_ZN10nsDOMEvent6AddRefEv+23>: test   $0x1,%al
> 0x7f6c18949355 <_ZN10nsDOMEvent6AddRefEv+25>: jne0x7f6c18949378 
> <_ZN10nsDOMEvent6AddRefEv+60>
> 0x7f6c18949357 <_ZN10nsDOMEvent6AddRefEv+27>: mov%rbx,%rdi
> 0x7f6c1894935a <_ZN10nsDOMEvent6AddRefEv+30>: mov0x8(%rbx),%r12d
> 0x7f6c1894935e <_ZN10nsDOMEvent6AddRefEv+34>: callq  0x7f6c18624320 
> 
> 0x7f6c18949363 <_ZN10nsDOMEvent6AddRefEv+39>: test   %eax,%eax
> 0x7f6c18949365 <_ZN10nsDOMEvent6AddRefEv+41>: je 0x7f6c1894936e 
> <_ZN10nsDOMEvent6AddRefEv+50>
> 0x7f6c18949367 <_ZN10nsDOMEvent6AddRefEv+43>: lea0x1(%r12),%eax
> 0x7f6c1894936c <_ZN10nsDOMEvent6AddRefEv+48>: jmp0x7f6c1894937c 
> <_ZN10nsDOMEvent6AddRefEv+64>
> 0x7f6c1894936e <_ZN10nsDOMEvent6AddRefEv+50>: lea0x1(%r12),%eax
> 0x7f6c18949373 <_ZN10nsDOMEvent6AddRefEv+55>: mov%eax,0x8(%rbx)
> 0x7f6c18949376 <_ZN10nsDOMEvent6AddRefEv+58>: jmp0x7f6c18949386 
> <_ZN10nsDOMEvent6AddRefEv+74>
> 0x7f6c18949378 <_ZN10nsDOMEvent6AddRefEv+60>: sar%eax
> 0x7f6c1894937a <_ZN10nsDOMEvent6AddRefEv+62>: inc%eax
> 0x7f6c1894937c <_ZN10nsDOMEvent6AddRefEv+64>: lea
> (%rax,%rax,1),%edx
> 0x7f6c1894937f <_ZN10nsDOMEvent6AddRefEv+67>: or $0x1,%edx
> 0x7f6c18949382 <_ZN10nsDOMEvent6AddRefEv+70>: mov%rdx,0x18(%rbp)
> 0x7f6c18949386 <_ZN10nsDOMEvent6AddRefEv+74>: pop%rbx
> 0x7f6c18949387 <_ZN10nsDOMEvent6AddRefEv+75>: pop%rbp
> 0x7f6c18949388 <_ZN10nsDOMEvent6AddRefEv+76>: pop%r12
> 0x7f6c1894938a <_ZN10nsDOMEvent6AddRefEv+78>: retq   
> End of assembler dump.
> Current language:  auto
> The current source language is "auto; currently c++".
> (gdb) info registers
> rax0x7f6c194b6e78 140102257569400
> rbx0x7f6bcea877f0 140101005375472
> rcx0x00
> rdx0x7fff85125ad8 140735425960664
> rsi0x7f6c18e7b420 140102251033632
> rdi0x7f6bcea877f0 140101005375472
> rbp0x7fff85125ad8 0x7fff85125ad8
> rsp0x20x2
> r8 0x7f6bd9197380 140101180552064
> r9 0x7f6c18ae5112 140102247272722
> r100x7fff85125c30 140735425961008
> r110x7f6bc7568808 140100882565128
> r120x7f6c1894cbee 140102245600238
> r130x7f6c1969f078 140102259568760
> r140x7f6bd0b0 140101039423488
> r150x7f6bd0c19de0 140101040578016
> rip0x7f6c18949343 0x7f6c18949343 
> eflags 0x10216[ PF AF IF RF ]
> cs 0x33   51
> ss 0x2b   43
> ds 0x00
> es 0x00
> fs 0x00
> gs 0x00
> fctrl  0x37f  895
> fstat  0x4120 16672
> ftag   0x 65535
> fiseg  0x7f6c 32620
> fioff  0x17883f30 394805040
> foseg  0x7fff 32767
> fooff  0x8512c6e8 -2062367000
> fop0x55c  1372
> mxcsr  0x1fa3 [ IE DE PE IM DM ZM OM UM PM ]
> (gdb) info locals
> No locals.
> (gdb) 


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Mass bug filing for python-apt API transition

[Julian Andres Klode]

Hi,

as some of you already know, python-apt received a new
API (sometimes called 0.8 API). We intent to drop the old API
for Squeeze+1, and thus ask you to upgrade your packages to
use the new API.

Mass bug filing
---
On Friday, I will start reporting bugs on the packages
in the Debian BTS listed below, with a patch if easily
possible. All bugs will include the following information:

User: de...@lists.debian.org
Usertags: python-apt-0-8-api

Upgrading to the new python-apt API
---
Please see "What’s New In python-apt 0.7.100" in the documentation
for information on how to update.

Further API breaks
--
Further API breaks will be limited, but there may be some
smaller ones where absolutely needed. If you find some API
issues, or would like to see something renamed, please tell
me before I start mass bug filing.

After the Debian Squeeze release / Ubuntu Lucid release
---
The first upload after the Squeeze release will drop the old
API and will get a 'Breaks' for all packages which have not
been adjusted yet. All not-fixed bugs will become release
critical then.

The same procedure should be applied to Ubuntu, where
the old API should be dropped for the 10.10 release.

Responses
-
If you reply to this email, please keep de...@lists.debian.org
CCed. I have also CCed ubuntu-devel-discuss, in case they
want to add something; but replies should not be sent
there.

Packages depending on python-apt
-
APT Development Team 
   apt
   python-apt

Hubert Chathi 
   tla-buildpackage

Fabrice Coutadeur 
   aptoncd

Cameron Dale 
   apt-p2p
   debtorrent

Julien Danjou 
   rebuildd

Debian Bazaar Maintainers 
   bzr-builddeb

Debian GNOME Maintainers 
   update-manager
   update-notifier

Debian python-debian Maintainers 

   python-debian

Sebastian Dröge 
   gnome-codec-install

Luca Falavigna 
   ubuntu-dev-tools

Gustavo Franco 
   gdebi

Christoph Goehre 
   mini-dinstall

Sami Haahtinen 
   bcfg2

Pierre Habouzit 
   apt-listchanges

Chris Halls 
   apt-proxy

Andreas Hoenen 
   dblatex

Julian Andres Klode 
   aptdaemon
   computer-janitor
   software-center

A Mennucc1 
   debdelta

Marcin Owsiany 
   apt-forktracer

Otavio Salvador 
   debpartial-mirror
   python-cdd

Gustavo Noronha Silva 
   software-properties

Jose Carlos Garcia Sogo 
   dogtail

Bastian Venthur 
   reportbug-ng

Michael Vogt 
   unattended-upgrades

Colin Watson 
   germinate

Florian Weimer 
   debsecan

Graham Williams 
   wajig

Enrico Zini 
   apt-xapian-index

-- 
Julian Andres Klode  - Debian Developer, Ubuntu Member

See http://wiki.debian.org/JulianAndresKlode and http://jak-linux.org/.


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[Christophe BESSON]

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Re: Mass bug filing for python-apt API transition

[Julian Andres Klode]

Am Mittwoch, den 17.02.2010, 12:09 +0100 schrieb Julian Andres Klode:
> Hi,
> 
> as some of you already know, python-apt received a new
> API (sometimes called 0.8 API). We intent to drop the old API
> for Squeeze+1, and thus ask you to upgrade your packages to
> use the new API.
> 
> Mass bug filing
> ---
> On Friday, I will start reporting bugs on the packages
> in the Debian BTS listed below, with a patch if easily
> possible. All bugs will include the following information:
> 
>   User: de...@lists.debian.org
>   Usertags: python-apt-0-8-api
> 
> Upgrading to the new python-apt API
> ---
> Please see "What’s New In python-apt 0.7.100" in the documentation
> for information on how to update.

The recommended way for checking for things to be changed is using the
automatic checking tool, in the bzr version:

debcheckout python-apt
cd python-apt
python2.6 ./utils/migrate-0.8.py  ...

This will find all places where deprecated code might be used. It
requires Python 2.6 because it makes use of the ast module for parsing
the Python modules into an abstract syntax tree.
-- 
Julian Andres Klode  - Debian Developer, Ubuntu Member

See http://wiki.debian.org/JulianAndresKlode and http://jak-linux.org/.



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Re: Status of systemtap in Debian

[Jon Dowland]

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 09:58:47AM +0100, Bastian Blank
wrote:
> This is a misinterpretation of my data. The effective
> space requirement is raised by factor 10 with debugging
> information.

And is that a problem for the buildds of the relevant
architectures? If so, what is the effective upper limit on
disk space utilisation for package building for each?

I.e., what do we have to work with, and how far away are we?
:)


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Debian Mobile -- Debian GNU/Linux for mobile devices

[Julian Andres Klode]

Hi,

Is anyone interested in starting a Debian Mobile project, probably as a
Debian Pure Blend?

Goals:
  - Provide an environment for handheld and netbook devices
+ example: the Nokia N900
  - Provide a Debian-based implementation of MeeGo
+ Packaging the software from MeeGo

Regards,
Julian

(Please CC me in your replies)
-- 
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See http://wiki.debian.org/JulianAndresKlode and http://jak-linux.org/.



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Re: Debian Mobile -- Debian GNU/Linux for mobile devices

[Bastian Blank]

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 03:53:32PM +0100, Julian Andres Klode wrote:
> Is anyone interested in starting a Debian Mobile project, probably as a
> Debian Pure Blend?

You want to start with em-debian.

>   - Provide an environment for handheld and netbook devices
> + example: the Nokia N900

Well, I would like to have something working for my N770.

Bastian

-- 
Yes, it is written.  Good shall always destroy evil.
-- Sirah the Yang, "The Omega Glory", stardate unknown


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Re: Debian Mobile -- Debian GNU/Linux for mobile devices

[Neil Williams]

On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:13:13 +0100
Bastian Blank  wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 03:53:32PM +0100, Julian Andres Klode wrote:
> > Is anyone interested in starting a Debian Mobile project, probably as a
> > Debian Pure Blend?

The difference between what you need for a phone and what Pure Blends
can offer was looked at during DebConf8 - a Pure Blend is still aimed
at a desktop machine, it's about collections of existing packages.
Emdebian focuses on providing smaller versions of existing packages in
ways that are better suited to small systems.

> You want to start with em-debian.

www.emdebian.org/grip/

Also the pkg-fso team: http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianFSO
 
> >   - Provide an environment for handheld and netbook devices
> > + example: the Nokia N900
> 
> Well, I would like to have something working for my N770.

The main barrier for Emdebian on mobiles is the relative lack of
suitable packages - and developers with time to add the packages that
do exist outside Debian (along with a few problems from some of those
packages just not being sufficiently stable to put into Debian at the
moment.)

-- 


Neil Williams
=
http://www.data-freedom.org/
http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/
http://e-mail.is-not-s.ms/



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Re: Debian Mobile -- Debian GNU/Linux for mobile devices

[Paul Wise]

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 11:18 PM, Neil Williams  wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:13:13 +0100 Bastian Blank  wrote:
>> You want to start with em-debian.
>
> www.emdebian.org/grip/
>
> Also the pkg-fso team: http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianFSO

A bunch of Moblin and Maemo stuff already exists in Debian, those
maintainers might also be interested. In addition the Mer people might
be interested.

-- 
bye,
pabs

http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise


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Re: Debian Mobile -- Debian GNU/Linux for mobile devices

[Yves-Alexis Perez]

On 17/02/2010 15:53, Julian Andres Klode wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Is anyone interested in starting a Debian Mobile project, probably as a
> Debian Pure Blend?

Carsten Munk (Stskeep, Mer main developer) has said he might use Debian
Lenny as a base for Mer^2 on n8x0 (he won't continue developing Mer for
N900+ since Meego will achieve the same purpose). You might want to ask
him about that.

Cheers,
-- 
Yves-Alexis


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Re: Debian Mobile -- Debian GNU/Linux for mobile devices

[Hector Oron]

Hello,

2010/2/17 Yves-Alexis Perez :
> Carsten Munk (Stskeep, Mer main developer) has said he might use Debian
> Lenny as a base for Mer^2 on n8x0 (he won't continue developing Mer for
> N900+ since Meego will achieve the same purpose). You might want to ask
> him about that.

18:55 < dilinger> Stskeeps: so what happens w/ Mer, then?
18:55 < dilinger> oh, i guess someone already asked
18:55  * dilinger reads scrollback
18:56 < Stskeeps> dilinger: short answer is that we'll be doing
backports of mer regarding fremantle and help fremantle afterlife, ..
the longer answer: it depends on how badly Meego is governed.
18:56 < Stskeeps> there might be a need for community governed
variants of Meego.
18:57 < jrayhawk> It'd be nice if Mer were merged into Debian and
stopped with the monolithic versioning.
18:57 < Stskeeps> jrayhawk: my current project is Mer^2 which is a
Debian 5.0 based Mer, which is very close to Maemo5.
18:58 < jrayhawk> monolithic upgrades are another thing that irritate
the bejesus out of me about maemo
19:01 < dilinger> Stskeeps: got a list of packages that need to go into debian?
19:01 < Stskeeps> dilinger: not currently and we also use a scratchbox
"compat" layer in OBS that makes maemo packages build

-- 
 Héctor Orón

"Our Sun unleashes tremendous flares expelling hot gas into the Solar
System, which one day will disconnect us."


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Re: Debian Mobile -- Debian GNU/Linux for mobile devices

[Julian Andres Klode]

Am Mittwoch, den 17.02.2010, 15:18 + schrieb Neil Williams:
> On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:13:13 +0100
> Bastian Blank  wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 03:53:32PM +0100, Julian Andres Klode wrote:
> > > Is anyone interested in starting a Debian Mobile project, probably as a
> > > Debian Pure Blend?
> 
> The difference between what you need for a phone and what Pure Blends
> can offer was looked at during DebConf8 - a Pure Blend is still aimed
> at a desktop machine, it's about collections of existing packages.
> Emdebian focuses on providing smaller versions of existing packages in
> ways that are better suited to small systems.

This project is not aiming at small phones, it's aiming at MIDs and
Netbooks which have sufficient storage. Nokia currently runs docpurge on
their devices because it installs Maemo on a 256MB flash rom, but I
wouldn't really install Debian to a 256MB flash anyway; and use some
parts of the 32GB eMMC instead.

If there is a use for an even smaller system, we can still go the route
of Emdebian Crush or Emdebian Grip; depending on how small we want it.
But as MeeGo will be for Netbooks and the x86 architecture as well, we
should start in Debian.


> 
> > You want to start with em-debian.
> 
> www.emdebian.org/grip/
> 
> Also the pkg-fso team: http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianFSO

Freesmartphone.org is the other way, it has its own software. My idea is
more about the things coming from Nokia and Intel, i.e. oFono, Connman,
and the rest of what will be MeeGo.

-- 
Julian Andres Klode  - Debian Developer, Ubuntu Member

See http://wiki.debian.org/JulianAndresKlode and http://jak-linux.org/.



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Re: Debian Mobile -- Debian GNU/Linux for mobile devices

[Raphael Hertzog]

Hi,

On Wed, 17 Feb 2010, Julian Andres Klode wrote:
> Is anyone interested in starting a Debian Mobile project, probably as a
> Debian Pure Blend?

Yes. Not that I can invest lots of time to such a project but I believe
we really need to offer something at that level.

> Goals:
>   - Provide an environment for handheld and netbook devices
> + example: the Nokia N900
>   - Provide a Debian-based implementation of MeeGo
> + Packaging the software from MeeGo

I suggest however that we try to be heavily involved in MeeGo and not only
to do our stuff nearby. That might mean using their repositories and
stuff like that.

The Debian Mobile part could be mostly marketing and branding while
technical work should be done within MeeGo if this appears to be possible
(we'll have to watch out how they will manage external contributions and
so on).

We could try to create a "Debian Variant" working group following
http://meego.com/about/governance

Cheers,
-- 
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My Debian goals: http://ouaza.com/wp/2010/01/09/debian-related-goals-for-2010/


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Bug#570248: ITP: morituri -- CD ripper aiming for maximum quality

[Jonas Smedegaard]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Jonas Smedegaard 

* Package name: morituri
  Version : 0.1.0
  Upstream Author : Thomas Vander Stichele 
* URL : http://thomas.apestaart.org/download/morituri/
* License : GPL
  Programming Lang: Python
  Description : CD ripper aiming for maximum quality

 Morituri is a CD ripper aiming for accuracy over speed.
 .
 Its features are modeled to compare with Exact Audio Copy on Windows.
 .
 - support for MusicBrainz for metadata lookup
 - support for AccurateRip verification
 - detects sample read offset of drives
 - performs test and copy rip
 - detects and rips Hidden Track One Audio
 - templates for file and directory naming
 - support for lossless encoding only for now
 - tagging using GStreamer
 - for now, only a command line client (rip) is shipped



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Re: Flag images

[sean finney]

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 08:53:56AM +0100, Yves-Alexis Perez wrote:
> On lun., 2010-02-15 at 12:03 -0800, Don Armstrong wrote:
> > Flags are a poor representation of a particular language, and language
> > selection is better handled using locales and content-negotiation
> > anyway. [There are many examples where a country speaks many
> > languages, and examples where multiple countries have the same
> > language, but different dialects.]
> 
> But flags (as an image) /are/ a quick way to identify a locale. Sometime
> they don't exactly overlap, thus the above problem, but they are still
> useful. Maybe not in content-negotiation, but for example to switch
> between locales easily, to switch keyboard mapping, to ask for some
> content different from the current locales, etc.

And fwiw major software vendors have managed to overcome this trepidation
and include flag icons for such purposes.

I for one would love to get little flag icons back for displaying my
keyboard layouts, as it's visually much quicker/easier to identify than
looking for a two/three character piece of text on my task bar.


sean


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Re: Downgrading a package to get it into upcoming release

[sean finney]

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 09:24:30AM +0100, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Feb 2010, Antonin Kral wrote:
> > Epochs as well as +reverted will definitely work but looks a bit too
> > hackish to me.
> 
> Epochs have been designed precisely for this. It's not hackish... but they
> are somewhat ugly and some users do not understand them.

imho epochs are intended for dealing with new versions that don't sort
properly compared to previous versions, not for forcing users to downgrade
their packages to a previous version, which could cause data loss and other
non-fun stuff.


sean


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Re: Debian Mobile -- Debian GNU/Linux for mobile devices

[Julian Andres Klode]

Am Mittwoch, den 17.02.2010, 17:20 +0100 schrieb Raphael Hertzog:
> Hi,
> 
> On Wed, 17 Feb 2010, Julian Andres Klode wrote:
> > Is anyone interested in starting a Debian Mobile project, probably as a
> > Debian Pure Blend?
> 
> Yes. Not that I can invest lots of time to such a project but I believe
> we really need to offer something at that level.
> 
> > Goals:
> >   - Provide an environment for handheld and netbook devices
> > + example: the Nokia N900
> >   - Provide a Debian-based implementation of MeeGo
> > + Packaging the software from MeeGo
> 
> I suggest however that we try to be heavily involved in MeeGo and not only
> to do our stuff nearby. That might mean using their repositories and
> stuff like that.
> 
> The Debian Mobile part could be mostly marketing and branding while
> technical work should be done within MeeGo if this appears to be possible
> (we'll have to watch out how they will manage external contributions and
> so on).
Of course work should happen upstream as most as possible. But as
upstream will use rpm, our part is repackaging.

> 
> We could try to create a "Debian Variant" working group following
> http://meego.com/about/governance

Maybe. I CCed meego-...@meego.com to get a bit more responses. But for
meego.com a generic downstream working group might be more suitable.

(Replies to this part should go to meego-...@meego.com, the others to
debian-devel with a CC to my email address or meego-dev)
-- 
Julian Andres Klode  - Debian Developer, Ubuntu Member

See http://wiki.debian.org/JulianAndresKlode and http://jak-linux.org/.



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Re: Flag images

[Christian PERRIER]

Quoting Dmitry E. Oboukhov (un...@debian.org):
> There are many packages in debian contain flag images.


I think this whole thread answeredsomething that wasn't asked in
your question (is is good or bad to use flags). Flags *are* used,
whether we like it or not...or whether this is a good idea or not.

The fact is that flags *are* used in software to represent things
(countries, languages, keymaps...). They are used to represent
languages and, while I know this is a bad idea, I find it easier for
me to spot the German flag and then be sure to avoid clicking on that
icon if I want to continue understanding something or be qble to yrite
soöething on öz kezboqrd..:-)

So, Dmitry's proposal to have a good set of flags that could be
available for use (good or bad is the software's problem) seems to be
an interesting idea to me.

And, at the minimum, we could answer the technical question he's
asking..:-)

I don't have a very clear idea about the location for files. I only
have a good idea about the file name and the file contents and I would
recommend flags to be named either after the said
countries/territories ISO codeand that the content should be the
official flag used by the country/territory official
government/authority.

One can object with many counterexamples...There are many and most
have been mentioned in the thread:
- countries without clearly identified official authority and thus not
official "flag" (Somalia could come to mind)
- 'countries' that aren't widely recognized as countries in ISO-3166 but have a
flag (Kosovo is an example)
- territories listed in ISO-3166 but aren't countries per se and don't
have flags (various French territories, Antarctica)
- and probably other neat things.

There are many such examples but, still, the 246 entries in ISO-3166
would be a good start and such a package could deal with the 200+
entries that aren't a problem at all (the "country" is recognized as a
country and a 'flag' is easy to define without debate|controversy) and
deal with corner cases one by one (by being very conservative and
aware of potential risks).





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Re: Flag images

[Christian PERRIER]

Quoting Dmitry E. Oboukhov (un...@debian.org):

> PW> As an example of the practical effects of flags in the context of
> PW> Debian; a number of years ago we lost our kernel maintainer, partially
> PW> because KDE in Debian included a flag of a country the maintainer (and
> PW> his government) disapproved of. A team formed to replace him, but
> PW> losing contributors still sucks.
> 
> Hgm..
> When I saw KDE (it was 1.xx version) it contained lang switcher which
> used flags as language indicator. What happened to it? How is this task
> resolved now?


Paul is slightly wrong in his example. We lost the kernel maintainer
because he was thinking that using a compromise in the iso-codes
package to have a common name for TW that is "Taiwan" and not the
official "Taiwan, Province of China" namewas offensive for him and
China "mainland" people (while having "Taiwan, Province of China"
only was offensive to citizens of the island that everybody in the
world names "Taiwan").

So, nothing to do with flags, indeed. But, besides the underlying
problem (that has no "good" solution), that example shows that
anything related to political geography is highly sensitive. And, for
this, Paul's example is correct.




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Re: Flag images

[Mike Hommey]

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 06:38:00PM +0100, Christian PERRIER wrote:
> Quoting Dmitry E. Oboukhov (un...@debian.org):
> > There are many packages in debian contain flag images.
> 
> 
> I think this whole thread answeredsomething that wasn't asked in
> your question (is is good or bad to use flags). Flags *are* used,
> whether we like it or not...or whether this is a good idea or not.
> 
> The fact is that flags *are* used in software to represent things
> (countries, languages, keymaps...). They are used to represent
> languages and, while I know this is a bad idea, I find it easier for
> me to spot the German flag and then be sure to avoid clicking on that
> icon if I want to continue understanding something or be qble to yrite
> soöething on öz kezboqrd..:-)
> 
> So, Dmitry's proposal to have a good set of flags that could be
> available for use (good or bad is the software's problem) seems to be
> an interesting idea to me.
> 
> And, at the minimum, we could answer the technical question he's
> asking..:-)
> 
> I don't have a very clear idea about the location for files. I only
> have a good idea about the file name and the file contents and I would
> recommend flags to be named either after the said
> countries/territories ISO codeand that the content should be the
> official flag used by the country/territory official
> government/authority.
(...)

On the other hand, one application will want 16x10 icons, another one
24x15, another one may have some effects applied on the flags to better
fit the UI design, etc.

So while applications amy be using flags already, are they really using
the same ones, and would they benefit from having only one source for
all flags ?

Mike


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Re: Flag images

[Dmitry E. Oboukhov]

MH> On the other hand, one application will want 16x10 icons, another one
MH> 24x15, another one may have some effects applied on the flags to better
MH> fit the UI design, etc.

May be the size must be included into path?

like
flags/countires//16x10/
flags/countires//24x15/

etc?

Is package name nessesary to be in path or not?


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Re: Debian Mobile -- Debian GNU/Linux for mobile devices

[Julian Andres Klode]

Am Mittwoch, den 17.02.2010, 16:13 +0100 schrieb Bastian Blank:
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 03:53:32PM +0100, Julian Andres Klode wrote:
> > Is anyone interested in starting a Debian Mobile project, probably as a
> > Debian Pure Blend?
> 
> You want to start with em-debian.
MeeGo is not really embedded, having a netbook UI and a handheld UI. The
devices also have multiple GB of storage.

> 
> >   - Provide an environment for handheld and netbook devices
> > + example: the Nokia N900
> 
> Well, I would like to have something working for my N770.

I guess for the 770 (it's written without N), there is not much
interest. Even Mer seems to be starting with N800. But it's not
impossible.

We wouldn't even be able to support graphics acceleration on the N900,
because of the PowerVR chip used there.

Regards,
Julian

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See http://wiki.debian.org/JulianAndresKlode and http://jak-linux.org/.



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Re: Debian Mobile -- Debian GNU/Linux for mobile devices

[Mark Brown]

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 07:13:41PM +0100, Julian Andres Klode wrote:
> Am Mittwoch, den 17.02.2010, 16:13 +0100 schrieb Bastian Blank:
> > On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 03:53:32PM +0100, Julian Andres Klode wrote:

> > > Is anyone interested in starting a Debian Mobile project, probably as a
> > > Debian Pure Blend?

> > You want to start with em-debian.

> MeeGo is not really embedded, having a netbook UI and a handheld UI. The
> devices also have multiple GB of storage.

My phones and (even more so) MP3 players have had that sort of storage
space for some considerable time; form factor is probably more of a
useful distinction here than any performance specs.


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Re: Flag images

[Jérémy Lal]

On 17/02/2010 19:15, Mike Hommey wrote:
> On the other hand, one application will want 16x10 icons, another one
> 24x15, another one may have some effects applied on the flags to better
> fit the UI design, etc.
> 
> So while applications amy be using flags already, are they really using
> the same ones, and would they benefit from having only one source for
> all flags ?
> 
> Mike

Maybe SVG flags would address this issue ?

Also when it's not possible to choose between two flags, one could imagine
just providing an icon with the 2 or 3-letter country code in it, and no flag.

Jérémy


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Re: Debian Mobile -- Debian GNU/Linux for mobile devices

[Hector Oron]

Hi,

2010/2/17 Julian Andres Klode :
> Am Mittwoch, den 17.02.2010, 16:13 +0100 schrieb Bastian Blank:
>> You want to start with em-debian.
> MeeGo is not really embedded, having a netbook UI and a handheld UI. The
> devices also have multiple GB of storage.

FYI, Grip is not really embedded, targets MIDs, netbooks and devices
with few hundreds of MB storage.
Crush is more embedded, but actually with lack of support until
multiarch bits are in place.

>> >   - Provide an environment for handheld and netbook devices
>> >     + example: the Nokia N900
>>
>> Well, I would like to have something working for my N770.
>
> I guess for the 770 (it's written without N), there is not much
> interest. Even Mer seems to be starting with N800. But it's not
> impossible.

Emdebian does provide a rootfs for integrators, so anyone can pickup a
bootloader, kernel, emulation software (if needed) and integrate them
all together.

Alexander Shiskin showed me emdebian (or maybe was slind.org, a proof
of concept of crush among other things) running on a Nokia 770 device
four or five years ago. If I recall correctly, he needed non-free code
in order to use DSP. But, yes, it does not work out-of-the-box.

Cheers,
-- 
 Héctor Orón

"Our Sun unleashes tremendous flares expelling hot gas into the Solar
System, which one day will disconnect us."


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Re: Debian Mobile -- Debian GNU/Linux for mobile devices

[Julian Andres Klode]

Am Mittwoch, den 17.02.2010, 19:47 +0100 schrieb Hector Oron:
> Hi,
> 
> 2010/2/17 Julian Andres Klode :
> > Am Mittwoch, den 17.02.2010, 16:13 +0100 schrieb Bastian Blank:
> >> You want to start with em-debian.
> > MeeGo is not really embedded, having a netbook UI and a handheld UI. The
> > devices also have multiple GB of storage.
> 
> FYI, Grip is not really embedded, targets MIDs, netbooks and devices
> with few hundreds of MB storage.
> Crush is more embedded, but actually with lack of support until
> multiarch bits are in place.
Yes, I confused them. But Grip can be built from Debian packages
automatically, so starting with it does not make much sense.

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Re: Downgrading a package to get it into upcoming release

[Raphael Hertzog]

On Wed, 17 Feb 2010, sean finney wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 09:24:30AM +0100, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> > On Tue, 16 Feb 2010, Antonin Kral wrote:
> > > Epochs as well as +reverted will definitely work but looks a bit too
> > > hackish to me.
> > 
> > Epochs have been designed precisely for this. It's not hackish... but they
> > are somewhat ugly and some users do not understand them.
> 
> imho epochs are intended for dealing with new versions that don't sort
> properly compared to previous versions, not for forcing users to downgrade
> their packages to a previous version, which could cause data loss and other
> non-fun stuff.

It all depends on how long the bad version has been available and in which
distribution it was. Imposing this if the package was already in stable
would be stupid, but in sid it's common that people upload experimental
packages in it and then use an epoch to revert that.

Cheers,
-- 
Raphaël Hertzog

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Re: Debian Mobile -- Debian GNU/Linux for mobile devices

[Andreas Tille]

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 05:29:15PM +0100, Julian Andres Klode wrote:
> > On Wed, 17 Feb 2010, Julian Andres Klode wrote:
> > > Is anyone interested in starting a Debian Mobile project, probably as a
> > > Debian Pure Blend?

I wonder whether we really need to "start" or whether we are able to
continue what just exist:  There is a Debian Eee PC project [1] which -
as far as I know - is not reduced to this specific hardware despite the
very specific name.

> > Yes. Not that I can invest lots of time to such a project but I believe
> > we really need to offer something at that level.
> > 
> > > Goals:
> > >   - Provide an environment for handheld and netbook devices
> > > + example: the Nokia N900
> > >   - Provide a Debian-based implementation of MeeGo
> > > + Packaging the software from MeeGo

I have to admit that I never dived into this MeeGo stuff (and its
predecessors) so perhaps my assumption is wrong, but I have the
impression that it is basically an environment which attempts to provide
applications to users in a simple way like for instance Sugar is doing
for XO.  Just correct me, if this impression is wrong.  If I'm right we
just need to package this environment (and its components) just as it
is done with Sugar.

Once thes packages exist, you need to tweak D-I with some
preconfiguration and define a set of packaged applications which should
be installed as default.  If you ask me that sounds like a Debian Pure
Blend: Package things we are interested in and provide these packages in
a simple way to the target user.

> > The Debian Mobile part could be mostly marketing and branding while
> > technical work should be done within MeeGo if this appears to be possible
> > (we'll have to watch out how they will manage external contributions and
> > so on).
> Of course work should happen upstream as most as possible. But as
> upstream will use rpm, our part is repackaging.

Ahh.  I've thought one of its predecessors (MobLin) would be Ubuntu and
thus Deb-based.  But yes, if the package format of choice would be RPM
than it means repackaging.  IMHO the question whether to host your work
on MeeGo or on Debian is strongly related to the question whether you
intend to strictly follow Debian policy.  I learned that projects like
this do often not per se comply to Debian policy (for whatever reason).
If you intend to stricktly stick to Debian policy IMHO it would be
reasonable to do your work inside Debian (while sticking as closely as
possible to upstream).

Whether you finally call it a Debian Pure Blend or not is your choice.
If you consider the techniques of Blends (like defining categories of
packages in so called tasks and handling such tasks in metapackages)
useful I would be happy to support your work.  Perhaps the Blends
framework might be enhanced to even better fit your needs.

Kind regards

 Andreas.

-- 
http://fam-tille.de


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Bug#570296: ITP: lsyncd -- live syncing mirror daemon that synchronizes local directories using rsync

[Jan Dittberner]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Jan Dittberner 


* Package name: lsyncd
  Version : 1.26
  Upstream Author : Axel Kittenberger ,
Semi Malinen ,
Jürgen "README" Mangler ,
Eugene Sanivsky ,
Junichi Uekawa 
* URL : http://code.google.com/p/lsyncd/
* License : GPLv2+
  Programming Lang: C
  Description : live syncing mirror daemon that synchronizes local 
directories using rsync

Lsyncd uses rsync to synchronize local directories with a remote machine
running rsyncd. Lsyncd watches multiple directories trees through inotify. The
first step after adding the watches is to rsync all directories with the remote
host, and then sync single file by collecting the inotify events. So lsyncd is
a light-weight live mirror solution that should be easy to install and use
while blending well with your system. See lsyncd --help for detailed command
line options.

My motivation for packaging this software is the article at
http://fak3r.com/2009/09/14/howto-build-your-own-open-source-dropbox-clone/ and
that it seems useful to have a package to perform such a setup even more
easily.

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Re: Bug#520668: TCP SYN cookies

[Craig Small]

Hello,
  Regarding the procps bug 520668 which was asking for the TCP SYN
cookies to be enabled by default, I've looked at the various emails
to and for.

While it does seem like it would be a good idea at times, there is not
a consensus that it is a good *default*  Nothing about this bug would
change peoples ability to edit sysctl.conf for their own setup.

Some important points brought up, paraphrased:
 * I disagree generally that if the default is 'off' then the best
   solution is always 'off'. Often new features are off by default,
   because they are new.
 * SYN cookies disable features, under attack this probably doesn't
   matter but under non-attack high loads it does [1]
 * SYN cookies solve one part of the overload problem, but are still put
   on the overloaded queue [2] - I actually see this as a good thing, 
   at least you know the new connections are verified

Significantly, from this bug's point of view, from Julien Cristau [3]:
> I believe procps is the wrong place to make this change.  If we decide
> that syncookies should be enabled, then that should be done in the
> linux-2.6 package, IMO
I happen to agree and in future I'll treat further sysctl key options
like this:
  * Generally a bad idea or only for very specific circumstances - close
  * Something useful for some subset of Debian machines - commented out
in sysctl.conf
  * Something everyone should have - reassign to the kernel

The TCP syn cookies is alreeady a commented out line in sysctl.conf
Should it be the default for everyone? Then if so the kernel folk
can decide, I'm re-assigning it to the kernel package.

 - Craig

[1] http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2010/02/msg00296.html
[2] http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2010/02/msg00314.html
[3] http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2010/02/msg00278.html 
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Re: Bug#520668: TCP SYN cookies

[Ben Hutchings]

On Thu, 2010-02-18 at 09:16 +1100, Craig Small wrote:
[...]
> I happen to agree and in future I'll treat further sysctl key options
> like this:
>   * Generally a bad idea or only for very specific circumstances - close
>   * Something useful for some subset of Debian machines - commented out
> in sysctl.conf
>   * Something everyone should have - reassign to the kernel
[...]

Thanks, Craig.

Ben.

-- 
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Re: Flag images

[Frank Lin PIAT]

On Wed, 2010-02-17 at 17:28 +0100, sean finney wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 08:53:56AM +0100, Yves-Alexis Perez wrote:
> > On lun., 2010-02-15 at 12:03 -0800, Don Armstrong wrote:
> > > Flags are a poor representation of a particular language, and language
> > > selection is better handled using locales and content-negotiation
> > > anyway. [There are many examples where a country speaks many
> > > languages, and examples where multiple countries have the same
> > > language, but different dialects.]
> > 
> > But flags (as an image) /are/ a quick way to identify a locale. Sometime
> > they don't exactly overlap, thus the above problem, but they are still
> > useful. Maybe not in content-negotiation, but for example to switch
> > between locales easily, to switch keyboard mapping, to ask for some
> > content different from the current locales, etc.
> 
> And fwiw major software vendors have managed to overcome this trepidation
> and include flag icons for such purposes.

I would love to get some comments from:
 - people leaving in a country with many official languages.
 - people leaving in a country which official language is the same
   to the one spoken in another language (or at least quite similar).

Think of Ireland and UK ; Canada and USA ; Canada and France ;
Spain and Argentina/Peru/Uruguay/Chile... 

People from Belgium are really nice people, but they certainly don't
want to spend their life licking on one of the Dutch/French/German flag.

Using flag for language can be perceived as arrogant for those country
who use the same language as another [larger] country.

> I for one would love to get little flag icons back for displaying my
> keyboard layouts, as it's visually much quicker/easier to identify than
> looking for a two/three character piece of text on my task bar.

Keyboards seems to be quite country-specific (not completely though).
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout




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Re: Status of systemtap in Debian

[Frank Lin PIAT]

On Tue, 2010-02-16 at 22:47 +0100, Lucas Nussbaum wrote:
> On 16/02/10 at 22:27 +0100, Bastian Blank wrote:
> > On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 09:13:06PM +0100, Lucas Nussbaum wrote:
> > > - disk space on buildds: at least 2 GiB are required to build a kernel
> > >   with debuginfo. (that doesn't sound too hard to satisfy)
> > 
> > A typical build includes between 2 and 10 of them.
> 
> Ah, I missed that. Provided the build of the different are sequential,
> the tree is not cleaned up between builds?
> 
> So that means at most 20 GiB, which probably excludes more buildds.
> 
> > > - mirror space: each debug .deb would use ~ 450 MB (see
> > >   http://ddebs.ubuntu.com/pool/main/l/linux/)
> > 
> > Our archive does not support ddebs.
> 
> Why couldn't it be done using a normal deb?

Noob question...

Aren't there some alternatives so people don't have to download all the
MegaBytes ? (iSCSI ; DRDB ; FUSE/HTTP... whatever)
Especially for fast moving targets, like unstable.

Franklin


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Re: Flag images

[Frank Lin PIAT]

Thanks to Kibi for notifying some mistakes... 

On Thu, 2010-02-18 at 00:11 +0100, Frank Lin PIAT wrote:
> I would love to get some comments from:
>  - people leaving in a country with many official languages.
>  - people leaving in a country which official language is the same
>to the one spoken in another language (or at least quite similar).

s/leaving/living/

> Think of Ireland and UK ; Canada and USA ; Canada and France ;
> Spain and Argentina/Peru/Uruguay/Chile... 
> 
> People from Belgium are really nice people, but they certainly don't
> want to spend their life licking on one of the Dutch/French/German flag.
   ^^^ clicking !

Oops sorry,

Franklin
--
/me is French living in France, despite the email address.


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Re: [MeeGo-dev] Debian Mobile -- Debian GNU/Linux for mobile devices

[Erle Pereira]

> Am Mittwoch, den 17.02.2010, 17:20 +0100 schrieb Raphael Hertzog:
> > On Wed, 17 Feb 2010, Julian Andres Klode wrote:
> > > Is anyone interested in starting a Debian Mobile project, probably as a
> > > Debian Pure Blend?

Count me in. 

> > > Goals:
> > >   - Provide an environment for handheld and netbook devices
> > > + example: the Nokia N900
> > >   - Provide a Debian-based implementation of MeeGo
> > > + Packaging the software from MeeGo

  + example env.: netbook (atom) ...its what I have to play around with
 
> > 
> > The Debian Mobile part could be mostly marketing and branding while
> > technical work should be done within MeeGo if this appears to be possible
> > (we'll have to watch out how they will manage external contributions and
> > so on).
> Of course work should happen upstream as most as possible. But as
> upstream will use rpm, our part is repackaging.

It should be possible to work in the manner you have proposed without
problems. I am a great believer in the power of the community to resolve
any potential issues which might come along.

f I understand this right, the MeeGo tree + Debian Flavouring (DFSG) ? 

> > 
> > We could try to create a "Debian Variant" working group following
> > http://meego.com/about/governance
> 
> Maybe. I CCed meego-...@meego.com to get a bit more responses. But for
> meego.com a generic downstream working group might be more suitable.
> (Replies to this part should go to meego-...@meego.com, the others to
> debian-devel with a CC to my email address or meego-dev)



Best,

Erle

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Re: Debian Mobile -- Debian GNU/Linux for mobile devices

[Ben Armstrong]

On 17/02/10 05:34 PM, Andreas Tille wrote:

I wonder whether we really need to "start" or whether we are able to
continue what just exist:  There is a Debian Eee PC project [1] which -
as far as I know - is not reduced to this specific hardware despite the
very specific name.
   


Actually, our project is limited to the Eee PC platform.  We don't even 
support similar systems by the same vendor like the Eee Box.  Although 
it might be possible to broaden the scope to encompass more hardware 
without killing the project, I have my doubts.  We've managed to stay 
cohesive, productive and relevant for the past two years using this 
approach and I'd be reluctant to do anything to upset the balance.


I also have my doubts about whether or not we even have similar goals.  
The Debian Eee PC project has one purpose only, to ensure that Debian 
works well on this hardware.  While other projects with an Eee focus 
want to write and support special applets to control the hardware or 
slap on a special UI, we're quietly working to ensure that the drivers 
work, are free, and any patches merged upstream to ensure that no matter 
how you make Debian *look* on an Eee, it will all just work.


While there may be a small amount of overlap, a portion of the user 
population who will find a "mobile OS" appealing, (and maybe my 
perception of how many people are interested in such a thing is skewed a 
bit because Debian simply doesn't offer anything like this at this time, 
driving people away from it and towards the alternatives,) I really 
can't see a whole lot in common between handheld device owners' needs 
and those of netbook owners.


In the end, a netbook is an inexpensive, smaller, but essentially -- a 
laptop, and that is not very different from a desktop system.  That is, 
it's a general purpose system.  It just also happens to be highly 
portable.  People with netbooks do similar things on them that they 
would do on their desktop systems.  They just do it on the go.  They 
don't need a radically different UI to make that happen.  Just using a 
familiar desktop or WM that they already use elsewhere and are 
comfortable with is usually the best approach.


When Asus entered the market with this system, they wanted it to look 
different, and they wanted to reach a different market.  Thus, they 
introduced it with a UI with big, friendly buttons more reminiscent of a 
PDA or cell phone than a conventional desktop.  That wasn't what caught 
my eye.  What excited me about the Eee was that here, at last, was a 
general purpose system that met both my usability and portability needs 
at once, and at a decent price.  Nothing more than that.  I didn't share 
whatever the Asus execs' vision was for this.  I get the sense that not 
many of the people who work with and enjoy the products of our project 
do either.


All of that being said, Debian Mobile sounds like a great idea, and I 
hope it is a resounding success.  And if it happens to work well on an 
Eee, too, then super!  It's always nice to have choices.


Ben


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Bug#570329: ITP: banshee-community-extensions -- Community contributed extensions for Banshee

[Chow Loong Jin]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Chow Loong Jin 


* Package name: banshee-community-extensions
  Version : 1.5.4
  Upstream Author : Gabriel Burt 
* URL : http://gitorious.org/banshee-community-extensions
* License : MIT/X11
  Programming Lang: C#
  Description : Community contributed extensions to Banshee

Banshee Community Extensions is a repository and project for extensions to the
Banshee media player that are community contributed and maintained.

By bringing various third-party extensions into this one project, we can help
each other maintain them and keep them up to date with the latest Banshee API.

This is meant to be a low-barrier-to-entry way to start, develop, and publish a
Banshee extension.



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