Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Rafael Laboissiere]

* Noah Slater <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008-11-23 22:07]:

> Please quote from the original email explaining to me how it is sexist.

Well, I found the parody very offensive to men, in general.  Josselin's
satire suggests that a male is a stupid creature who desperately looks for
"chicks" or whichever his fantasy about females is.  A male acts like a
vampire and thinks that perfumes (or pheromones) would attract females to
him.

The joke could be funny because it makes one think about how ridicule males
are, in general.  Even though this is probably true for the huge majority of
men out there, I am pretty sure it does not apply to the average male Debian
developer.  So, I urge public excuses from Josselin!

At any rate, given the precedent with Andrew Suffield and the kissing
lesbians, sending the joke to d-d-a was certainly a faux-pas.

[Let us see how the politically-correct people will react to the irony
above. I hate putting smiles in my messages, but here we go :-)]

-- 
Rafael


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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Noah Slater]

On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 09:01:32AM +0100, Rafael Laboissiere wrote:
> * Noah Slater <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008-11-23 22:07]:
> > Please quote from the original email explaining to me how it is sexist.
>
> Well, I found the parody very offensive to men, in general.

Heh, heh.

Parody, satire, and pastiche humour are designed to take a view point, such as
racism or sexism, an activity, such as golf or football, or something else such
as advertising standards, and exaggerate it to the point of ridicule.

We are meant to point at this stuff and say "oh my, how inappropriate this would
be! thank goodness this is humour" and then laugh a little.

An intelligently crafted parody of racism is funny precisely because racism is
horrible and the joke is poking fun at the people who are genuinely racist. To
proclaim that it is racist is to entirely, and horrendously, miss the point.

The same thing goes for sexism, political policies, sports, news, &c

> At any rate, given the precedent with Andrew Suffield and the kissing
> lesbians, sending the joke to d-d-a was certainly a faux-pas.

Absolutely. Parody carries with it the unfortunate consequence of
misunderstanding. When this happens, people are generally offended. This type of
humour should not have been sent to a place where people could have
misunderstood it and I think we can all agree on that point. Can we please just
leave it at that though, instead of perpetuating a terrible misunderstanding of
the mechanics involved in parody and satire.

The email wasn't sexist, but it was inappropriate. Slapped wrists, &c.

Best,

-- 
Noah Slater, http://tumbolia.org/nslater


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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Rafael Laboissiere]

* Noah Slater <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008-11-24 08:47]:

> We are meant to point at this stuff and say "oh my, how inappropriate this 
> would
> be! thank goodness this is humour" and then laugh a little.
> 
> [...] Can we please just leave it at that though, instead of perpetuating a
> terrible misunderstanding of the mechanics involved in parody and satire.

I can only agree 100% with you.

Hey, people, stop becoming unnecessarily nervous with SmellyWerewolf.com.
Take a breath, laugh a little, delete Josselin's message, and go back to
closing RC bugs.

Aren't we going to release lenny soon, BTW?
 
-- 
Rafael


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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Russell Coker]

On Monday 24 November 2008 07:38, Russ Allbery <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It's not about whether or not the parody was funny.  It's that the same
> parody could have been made, just as funny, without the completely
> gratuitous sexism.

We should note that it had already been determined that debian-devel-announce 
is not a suitable forum for posting jokes.

Josselin's post seems deliberately written to evoke the same reaction as the 
last time a seriously off-topic message was posted to d-d-a.

http://np237.livejournal.com/17716.html

The above deliberately offensive blog post by Josselin was created in response 
to my suggestion that jokes about raping children (regardless of whether they 
are religious figures or not) are not funny and not appropriate for Planet 
Debian.

I believe that this is evidence that his post to d-d-a was not a mistake, but 
is part of a pattern of behaviour.

-- 
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http://etbe.coker.com.au/  My Main Blog
http://doc.coker.com.au/   My Documents Blog


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Bug#506752: ITP: ssake -- assembling millions of very short DNA sequences

[Andreas Tille]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Andreas Tille <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: ssake
  Version : 3.2.1
  Upstream Author : Rene Warren 
* URL : http://www.bcgsc.ca/platform/bioinfo/software/ssake
* License : GPL 2+
  Programming Lang: Perl
  Description : assembling millions of very short DNA sequences
 SSAKE is a genomics application for assembling millions of very short
 DNA sequences.
 .
 The Short Sequence Assembly by K-mer search and 3' read Extension
 (SSAKE) is a genomics application for aggressively assembling
 millions of short nucleotide sequences by progressively searching for
 perfect 3'-most k-mers using a DNA prefix tree. SSAKE is designed to
 help leverage the information from short sequences reads by
 stringently clustering them into contigs that can be used to
 characterize novel sequencing targets.

Preliminary packaging stuff can be found at
  Vcs-Svn: svn://svn.debian.org/svn/debian-med/trunk/packages/ssake/trunk/

-- System Information:
Debian Release: lenny/sid
  APT prefers testing
  APT policy: (501, 'testing'), (50, 'unstable'), (5, 'experimental')
Architecture: i386 (i686)



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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Ben Hutchings]

On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 03:51:07PM +1100, Ben Finney wrote:
> Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 12:07:53AM +0100, Miriam Ruiz wrote:
> > > - The only mention women get in the text is thus through a sexual
> > > objetification.
> > 
> > This amounts to concluding that any mention of sexuality is sexual
> > objectification of women, which is patently absurd.
> 
> No, the claim isn't that broad. The message specifically discusses
> women as objects: it promises they will be “delivered directly at
> home”, and the entire message discusses women as some kind of reward
> being offered to customers.
 
It seems like a reasonable pastiche of many spams I've received.  I don't
think it should be assumed to express sexism on Joss's part.  The
problem I have with it is that it is protesting perceived misuse of
d-d-a with deliberate misuse of d-d-a.  Such hypocrisy is not very
constructive.

Ben.

-- 
Ben Hutchings
Any smoothly functioning technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo.


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Bug#506757: ITP: efte -- Text editor for programmers

[Xavier Oswald]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Xavier Oswald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: efte
  Version : 0.98
  Upstream Author : Jeremy Cowgar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://efte.cowgar.com
* License : GPL
  Programming Lang: C++
  Description : Text editor for programmers

 eFTE is an advanced programmers editor with goals of being lightweight, yet 
 totally configurable. Support for user defined programming languages, menu
 systems and key bindings are provided with many common defaults already 
 defined. 
 .
 eFTE is still a new project, however, we extend from the FTE editor which was
 first released in 1995, so eFTE is tried and true with many features for the 
 programmer/text editor.


-- System Information:
Debian Release: lenny/sid
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (990, 'unstable'), (500, 'testing'), (1, 'experimental')
Architecture: i386 (i686)

-- 
  ,''`.  Xavier Oswald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   
 : :' :  GNU/LINUX Debian Maintainer
 `. `'   GnuPG Key ID 0x88BBB51E
   `-938D D715 6915 8860 9679  4A0C A430 C6AA 88BB B51E 




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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Gunnar Wolf]

Russ Allbery dijo [Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 12:38:14PM -0800]:
> >>>  - Send your private Debian GPG Key to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Include
> >>>the brand of your perfume and the color of the make-up.
> 
> >>   I find it disappointing to see this posted, and in bad taste.
> 
> > /me guesses from when having sense of humor evicted started to be a
> > requisite for being a Debian developer.
> 
> It's not about whether or not the parody was funny.  It's that the same
> parody could have been made, just as funny, without the completely
> gratuitous sexism.

In my opinion, which is as humble as it can be (but that might not
mean much), I fail to see Joss' post as sexist. From its first line it
is a parody, something that very clearly should not be taken
seriously. Not that I like it - I'd really very very much prefer if we
all took d-d-a as something serious, and not a proper place to post
jokes of any kind.

_Of course_ that Joss' post mentions sexist situations and points of
view. But I don't think there is a single comma in his message meant
to be taken seriously.

Greetings,

-- 
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PGP key 1024D/8BB527AF 2001-10-23
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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Josselin Mouette]

Hi again,

Le dimanche 23 novembre 2008 à 17:59 +0100, Josselin Mouette a écrit :
> SmellyWerewolf.com are kindly offering every Debian Developer a discount
> on their whole perfumes and make-up catalog[1]. If you apply under the
> procedure outlined below, you will pay according to "Rate Eeencredible",
> which at the time of this writing means 20% more chicks loving you!

I apologize for sending this email to d-d-a instead of -devel. It could
have conveyed the same message without abusing the project resources.

Cheers,
-- 
 .''`.
: :' :  We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code.
`. `'   We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to
  `-our own. Resistance is futile.


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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Stefano Zacchiroli]

On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 11:04:18AM -0600, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
> In my opinion, which is as humble as it can be (but that might not
> mean much), I fail to see Joss' post as sexist. From its first line
> it is a parody, something that very clearly should not be taken
> seriously. Not that I like it - I'd really very very much prefer if
> we all took d-d-a as something serious, and not a proper place to
> post jokes of any kind.
> 
> _Of course_ that Joss' post mentions sexist situations and points of
> view. But I don't think there is a single comma in his message meant
> to be taken seriously.

AOL, it's also my view.

Or, to be more clear (which is mandatory in cases where people can
feel discriminated), Joss made a parody of advertisements which are
usually written in the tone and with the wording he used. He just
copied style and words for the sake of the joke.  Think about an
impersonator [1] (wikipedia link because I've just discovered the
English word): it is fun only when the impersonator stresses the
characteristic of who is being impersonated.

  [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impersonator

If you agree with this interpretation, it is not even worth to discuss
whether the message was sexiest or not, because content and style are
inherited from elsewhere.


That notwithstanding Joss abused d-d-a, that's undeniable. He could
have obtained the very same result blogging on planet.d.o or posting
to -devel. At least the latter two mediums are seen as "less official"
by our public.

As I was positively surprised by that, I have to kudo Joss for his
acknowledgment and apologies about the mistake [2]; it doesn't revert
the fact, but is something rare enough in Debian to be worth pointing
out.

  [2] http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2008/11/msg00533.html


So ... it is settled now, right? :-) Can we go back and release? :-)

Cheers.

-- 
Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7
[EMAIL PROTECTED],pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -<>- http://upsilon.cc/zack/
Dietro un grande uomo c'è ..|  .  |. Et ne m'en veux pas si je te tutoie
sempre uno zaino ...| ..: | Je dis tu à tous ceux que j'aime


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Re: can buildd logs be sorted (again)?

[Adeodato Simó]

* Steve M. Robbins [Wed, 29 Oct 2008 01:42:06 -0500]:

> Hi,

> The buildd log pages, e.g. [1], used to be sorted by package version
> (or maybe build date).  However that is no longer the case.

> Can this be fixed?  The current situation is less than useful since
> the latest build is buried in other output.

> Thanks,
> -Steve

> [1] http://buildd.debian.org/build.php?pkg=boost 

I fixed this to sort entries by age, HTH.

Thomas: I didn't have the PHP-energy to look at integrating your patch
at this stage, prod me about it in the future if you'd like.

-- 
Adeodato Simó dato at net.com.org.es
Debian Developer  adeodato at debian.org
 
Testing can show the presence of bugs, but not their absence.
-- Dijkstra


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Re: can buildd logs be sorted (again)?

[Thomas Viehmann]

Adeodato Simó wrote:
> I fixed this to sort entries by age, HTH.

> Thomas: I didn't have the PHP-energy to look at integrating your patch
> at this stage, prod me about it in the future if you'd like.

Well, I cannot blame you. I do not intend to keep it lying around when
it's not used, though. Sorry if I should have done more than just
dumping the ready-to-use php somewhere.

Kind regards

T.
-- 
Thomas Viehmann, http://thomas.viehmann.net/


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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Frank Küster]

Ben Finney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 12:07:53AM +0100, Miriam Ruiz wrote:
>> > - The only mention women get in the text is thus through a sexual
>> > objetification.
>> 
>> This amounts to concluding that any mention of sexuality is sexual
>> objectification of women, which is patently absurd.
>
> No, the claim isn't that broad. The message specifically discusses
> women as objects: it promises they will be “delivered directly at
> home”, and the entire message discusses women as some kind of reward
> being offered to customers.

Undead customers, that is to say.

Have fun,
Frank
-- 
Frank Küster
Debian Developer (TeXLive)
ADFC Miltenberg
B90/Grüne KV Miltenberg


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Re: Bits from the buildd.debian.org world

[Frank Küster]

Adeodato Simó <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> * the role address for the wanna-build team is [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   However, a buildd.debian.org pseudo-package has been requested in the
>   BTS, 

Many thanks for these improvements, especially the one I cited!

Regards, Frank

-- 
Frank Küster
Debian Developer (TeXLive)
ADFC Miltenberg
B90/Grüne KV Miltenberg


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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Gunnar Wolf]

Frank Küster dijo [Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 09:11:14PM +0100]:
> >> > - The only mention women get in the text is thus through a sexual
> >> > objetification.
> >> 
> >> This amounts to concluding that any mention of sexuality is sexual
> >> objectification of women, which is patently absurd.
> >
> > No, the claim isn't that broad. The message specifically discusses
> > women as objects: it promises they will be “delivered directly at
> > home”, and the entire message discusses women as some kind of reward
> > being offered to customers.
> 
> Undead customers, that is to say.

Hmh, cannot resist...

Would it be sexist to think that (in this case) women might be
legitimately objectified by undead citizens? No evidence shows this is
a discriminatory behaviour, as we males would probably also be
objectified (braiinz!), but adequate advertising would be needed
to cater for us male living humans to be attracted...

Food for thought... (well, that's my definition of brains anyway).

BTW, I could have also felt Joss' message as a personal attack on my
and my family...

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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Ondrej Certik]

On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 7:46 PM, Stefano Zacchiroli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 11:04:18AM -0600, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
>> In my opinion, which is as humble as it can be (but that might not
>> mean much), I fail to see Joss' post as sexist. From its first line
>> it is a parody, something that very clearly should not be taken
>> seriously. Not that I like it - I'd really very very much prefer if
>> we all took d-d-a as something serious, and not a proper place to
>> post jokes of any kind.
>>
>> _Of course_ that Joss' post mentions sexist situations and points of
>> view. But I don't think there is a single comma in his message meant
>> to be taken seriously.
>
> AOL, it's also my view.
>
> Or, to be more clear (which is mandatory in cases where people can
> feel discriminated), Joss made a parody of advertisements which are
> usually written in the tone and with the wording he used. He just
> copied style and words for the sake of the joke.  Think about an
> impersonator [1] (wikipedia link because I've just discovered the
> English word): it is fun only when the impersonator stresses the
> characteristic of who is being impersonated.
>
>  [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impersonator
>
> If you agree with this interpretation, it is not even worth to discuss
> whether the message was sexiest or not, because content and style are
> inherited from elsewhere.
>
>
> That notwithstanding Joss abused d-d-a, that's undeniable. He could
> have obtained the very same result blogging on planet.d.o or posting
> to -devel. At least the latter two mediums are seen as "less official"
> by our public.
>
> As I was positively surprised by that, I have to kudo Joss for his
> acknowledgment and apologies about the mistake [2]; it doesn't revert
> the fact, but is something rare enough in Debian to be worth pointing
> out.
>
>  [2] http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2008/11/msg00533.html

Very well written, I was just about to write exactly that. +1

Ondrej


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Re: can buildd logs be sorted (again)?

[Steve M. Robbins]

On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 08:04:46PM +0100, Adeodato Sim?? wrote:
> * Steve M. Robbins [Wed, 29 Oct 2008 01:42:06 -0500]:
> 
> > Hi,
> 
> > The buildd log pages, e.g. [1], used to be sorted by package version
> > (or maybe build date).  However that is no longer the case.
> 
> > Can this be fixed?  The current situation is less than useful since
> > the latest build is buried in other output.
> 
> > Thanks,
> > -Steve
> 
> > [1] http://buildd.debian.org/build.php?pkg=boost 
> 
> I fixed this to sort entries by age, HTH.

Yes!  Thanks very much.

-Steve


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Re: Bits from the buildd.debian.org world

[Don Armstrong]

On Mon, 24 Nov 2008, Adeodato Simó wrote:
> However, a buildd.debian.org pseudo-package has been requested in
> the BTS,

The buildd.debian.org psuedo-package is now in place; there will be a
slight delay while everything catches up, but you can use it
immediately.


Don Armstrong

-- 
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our time so we may live into yours. We hope some day, having solved
the problems we face, to join a community of Galactic Civilizations.
This record represents our hope and our determination and our goodwill
in a vast and awesome universe.
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http://www.donarmstrong.com  http://rzlab.ucr.edu


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Re: Bits from the buildd.debian.org world

[Roger Leigh]

Adeodato Simó wrote:


A new team has been created (gid: wbadm) to maintain the wanna-build
infrastructure (that is, the software that tells the autobuilders what
to build, plus the pages you see in ). The
team is initially formed by:

* Andreas Barth
* Marc Brockschmidt
* Luk Claes
* Philipp Kern
* Ryan Murray
* Adeodato Simó


[...]


Source code
===

All the source code that is around in raff (buildd.debian.org) and the
buildds will be published, most likely under http://buildd.debian.org/git/
(plus a mirror in git.debian.org). We'll get to that next, thanks in
advance for your patience.


Is there any interest in merging this into the existing buildd-tools git 
repository?


  git://git.debian.org/git/buildd-tools/sbuild.git

This was originally derived from Ryan Murray's SVN repo, which was in 
turn based on the Kullervo CVS.  It has had quite extensive refactoring 
(of sbuild in particular; the other tools are pending).  There are quite 
a lot of bugfixes as well as new functionality you might like to pick 
up.  The sbuild and wanna-build tools are currently in unstable, while 
buildd is in git only; it's not yet been refactored sufficiently to 
package up nicely.



Regards,
Roger


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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Amaya]

Eduard Bloch wrote:
> * Miriam Ruiz [Mon, Nov 24 2008, 12:07:53AM]:
> > Sorry but Debian is not a men's club and we're not their "chicks".
> 
> Come on, peace! I respect you as woman or man or whoever you are, there
> is no need to polarize the discussion.

Well, you can't simply ask people to not feel offended when they do.
s/sexism/racism and everyone gets the point.

-- 
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 : :' :
 `. `'
   `- Proudly running Debian GNU/Linux


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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Manoj Srivastava]

On Mon, Nov 24 2008, Amaya wrote:

> Eduard Bloch wrote:
>> * Miriam Ruiz [Mon, Nov 24 2008, 12:07:53AM]:
>> > Sorry but Debian is not a men's club and we're not their "chicks".
>> 
>> Come on, peace! I respect you as woman or man or whoever you are, there
>> is no need to polarize the discussion.
>
> Well, you can't simply ask people to not feel offended when they do.
> s/sexism/racism and everyone gets the point.

It is far easier to dismiss things that offend _other_ people.

manoj
-- 
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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Fabian Pucciarelli]

can you all please stop discussing this email? it is pointless

On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 8:57 PM, Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 24 2008, Amaya wrote:
>
> > Eduard Bloch wrote:
> >> * Miriam Ruiz [Mon, Nov 24 2008, 12:07:53AM]:
> >> > Sorry but Debian is not a men's club and we're not their "chicks".
> >>
> >> Come on, peace! I respect you as woman or man or whoever you are, there
> >> is no need to polarize the discussion.
> >
> > Well, you can't simply ask people to not feel offended when they do.
> > s/sexism/racism and everyone gets the point.
>
>It is far easier to dismiss things that offend _other_ people.
>
>manoj
> --
> 卐 प्रवृत्ति  निवृत्ति  卍
> Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> 
> >
> 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
>
>
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> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>


-- 
Regards,

Fabian Pucciarelli

Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Jeremiah Foster]

On Nov 24, 2008, at 5:13 AM, Steve Langasek wrote:


- The use of the word "chick" in reference to females. Chick is a
slightly derogatory, condescending common usage (slang) expression  
for

a young woman.


So "linuxchix.org" is a slightly derogatory, condescending domain  
name for

young women involved in Linux?

Or is this just an example of a gratuitous double-standard?


When a term of derision, like "chick" is used to classify a group, it  
is hurtful and bigoted. But when a group embraces a term and uses it  
themselves, acknowledging that it is loaded with bigotry, in fact  
calling attention to that fact, it is a different thing. That is  
solely the prerogative of those who self-identify. I can think of a  
number of concrete examples, most obvious might be the term "queer"  
which some people use. In certain situations that term is used as an  
epithet

of political empowerment.

It may appear that it is a double standard, but it is rather a turning  
of the tables - taking away power from the bigot and claiming it for  
oneself. The double standard would be if they called other people  
derogatory names.


Jeremiah


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Bug#506837: ITP: minisapserver -- Mini SAP server

[Antonin Kral]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Antonin Kral <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: minisapserver
  Version : 0.3.5
  Upstream Author : multiple
* URL : http://www.videolan.org
* License : GPL
  Programming Lang: C
  Description : Mini SAP server

Mini SAP Server from VideoLan project is a small standalone application
that can produce SAP announcements.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: lenny/sid
  APT prefers testing
  APT policy: (500, 'testing')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)



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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Christian Perrier]

Quoting Josselin Mouette ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):

> I apologize for sending this email to d-d-a instead of -devel. It could
> have conveyed the same message without abusing the project resources.

Thanks for this, Joss...whatever one thinks of the content of your
post, the two sentences above are very valuable in this thread.

Has the d-d-a ban been lifted? I think that keeping it wouldn't be
appropriate. As the fact that a ban had been put in place became
public, it would be fair to make public that it has been lifted, if
that happened.





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