ballaingatlan.hu, Ingatlanközvetítés Budapest IX., X., XIV., XV., XVIII., XIX. és XX. kerületében

[Balla Ingatlan]

Tisztelt Hölgyem / Uram!
 
Cégünk a Balla Ingatlaniroda ingatlanok közvetítésével foglalkozik kizárólag 
Budapest IX., X., XIV., XV., XVIII., XIX. és XX. kerületében, már kilenc éve és 
már összesen 6 irodánkkal állunk Ügyfeleink rendelkezésére.
 
Szolgáltatásunk vevőknek TELJESEN INGYENES.
Eladók számára tevékenységünk díja sikeres közvetítés esetén, az ingatlan 
vételárának nettó 2,5%-a +ÁFA.

További információért kérjük látogasson el honlapunkra: www.ballaingatlan.hu !

Amennyiben felkeltettük érdeklődését és a későbbiekben szívesen fogadna tőlünk 
hírlevelet, tájékoztatót, vagy egyéb ajánlatot, kérjük kattintson az alábbi 
linkre:
http://ballaingatlan.hu/?email=debian-devel%40lists.debian.org&code=fc37a9bf40a33d6d3ac70521168f39eb54c52e7c

A tájékoztatáshoz [vagy egyéb anyagokhoz, hírlevelekhez] - a vonatkozó 
törvények értelmében - a hozzájárulását kell kérjük. Email címe nyilvános 
internetes oldalakról, illetve email-cím adatbázisokból került hozzánk. 
Ez a levél nem spam, hanem a 2001. évi CVIII. törvény 14. § (1) pontjában 
előírt hozzájárulás kérő levél.
Ha levelünkkel esetleg zavartuk, elnézést kérünk.

Üdvözlettel
Balla Ákos
Ügyvezető
és a Balla Ingatlaniroda csapata


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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Steve Kemp]

On Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 17:59:13 +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote:

>  - Send your private Debian GPG Key to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Include
>the brand of your perfume and the color of the make-up.

  I find it disappointing to see this posted, and in bad taste.

  I'm sure I'm not alone.

Steve
-- 


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Vote pages up

[Manoj Srivastava]

Hi,

Pages of the two issues currently under discussion are now
 available (I'll note that none of the proposers ever turned in any wml
 for their proposals, so this was done by the Secretary and asst
 secretary). These pages, because of an undiagnosed bug, do not turn up
 on the navigation bar on the left.
http://www.debian.org/vote/2008/vote_002
http://www.debian.org/vote/2008/vote_003

For vote 003, if the proposers want to set up a page of
 rationale,  to help guide voters through their proposals, please send
 me wml/html in the next couple of days, and I'll create a composite
 page for the rationale for various proposals, with the impact table I
 have been sending in email.

manoj
-- 
O'Reilly's Law of the Kitchen: Cleanliness is next to impossible
Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   
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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Scott Dier]

Sure, the first message shouldn't have been on announce, but its  
impossible to fix a wrong with yet another wrong.


Thanks,


On Nov 23, 2008, at 10:59 AM, Josselin Mouette wrote:


Hi

SmellyWerewolf.com are kindly offering every Debian Developer a  
discount

on their whole perfumes and make-up catalog[1]. If you apply under the
procedure outlined below, you will pay according to "Rate  
Eeencredible",

which at the time of this writing means 20% more chicks loving you!

Steps to follow:
- If you do not already own perfume bottle, buy one at your nearest
  convenience store.

- If you are goth, transsexual, female or simply metrosexual, you also
  need to buy make-up at the same place.

- Send your private Debian GPG Key to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Include
  the brand of your perfume and the color of the make-up.

- Wait for an OK reply and your new “good friends” will be delivered
  directly at home.


If you don’t want the chicks, you should still buy the perfume and the
make-up, cause you know, that can’t hurt, and in this time of economic
crisis, the Lust industry needs your help.

[1] http://malsain.org/SmellyWerewolf


About SmellyWerewolf.com:
Created in 1415 after the battle of Agincourt and purchased in 1802 by
an experienced vampire who wanted to hide his horrible corpse smell,  
the

Romanian company Smelly Werewolf delivers about 750,000 bottles of
perfume for geeks in 198 countries around the works, which places the
company around the leading make-up providers in Angola, and third in  
the

World of Darkness.
Today, Smelly Werewolf is considered as a strong point of reference
among vampires and zombies. The company’s goal is to create an
alternative and independent line of products destined to the undead.
Smelly Werewolf is devoted to giving everyone enough blood for their
needs, whether it is by allowing you to hide your corpse smell in
birthday parties or by leading chicks directly to your home. In short,
we enable people to claim new sex slaves for a very personal  
experience

of professional quality. Our clients range from vampire individuals,
packs of werewolves and small Elysiums to worldwide zombie attacks,  
and

it’s something that you should be deeply afraid of.

--
bye, the Committee for sexy developers


---
Scott Dier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>



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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Federico Di Gregorio]

Il giorno dom, 23/11/2008 alle 17.32 +, Steve Kemp ha scritto:
> On Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 17:59:13 +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> 
> >  - Send your private Debian GPG Key to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Include
> >the brand of your perfume and the color of the make-up.
> 
>   I find it disappointing to see this posted, and in bad taste.

/me guesses from when having sense of humor evicted started to be a
requisite for being a Debian developer.

-- 
Federico Di Gregorio http://people.initd.org/fog
Debian GNU/Linux Developer[EMAIL PROTECTED]
INIT.D Developer   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Se si insegna a un bambino a programmare in qualche linguaggio
   informatico, questo esercizio logico lo renderà padrone e non
   schiavo del computer.  -- Umberto Eco


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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho]

On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 05:32:12PM +, Steve Kemp wrote:
> On Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 17:59:13 +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> 
> >  - Send your private Debian GPG Key to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Include
> >the brand of your perfume and the color of the make-up.
> 
>   I find it disappointing to see this posted, and in bad taste.

I found it generally hilarious and a well-made point, though I agree the
presentation could have been in better taste.

-- 
Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho, Jyväskylä, Finland
http://antti-juhani.kaijanaho.fi/newblog/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/antti-juhani/


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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Steve Kemp]

On Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 19:52:46 +0200, Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho wrote:

> > >  - Send your private Debian GPG Key to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Include
> > >the brand of your perfume and the color of the make-up.
> > 
> >   I find it disappointing to see this posted, and in bad taste.
> 
> I found it generally hilarious and a well-made point, though I agree the
> presentation could have been in better taste.

  Indeed, the original post was borderline and a rational reply would
 have been fine.  A comedy-followup would have been less good, but
 still acceptable.

  The actual reply posted just didn't sit well with me, which is perhaps my
 problem, but with debian-women making strides forward it seems this
 was a step backward.

  Anyway I'm done now..

Steve
-- 


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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Raphael Hertzog]

On Sun, 23 Nov 2008, Federico Di Gregorio wrote:
> Il giorno dom, 23/11/2008 alle 17.32 +, Steve Kemp ha scritto:
> > On Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 17:59:13 +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> > 
> > >  - Send your private Debian GPG Key to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Include
> > >the brand of your perfume and the color of the make-up.
> > 
> >   I find it disappointing to see this posted, and in bad taste.
> 
> /me guesses from when having sense of humor evicted started to be a
> requisite for being a Debian developer.

Please let's not have this discussion again. We already had a similar
discussion once…

http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/01/msg9.html
and the -devel thread starting here:
http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/01/msg00920.html

People should understant that what is acceptable or not on -devel-announce
varies with people and one shouldn't overreact when something doesn't
please him. 

In today's case, Gandi is an (important) debconf sponsor and they are very
free software fiendly in general. Also it's not very far from HP paying us
the LWN subscriptions and the setup done by Joerg looks like inspired by
this.

Cheers,
-- 
Raphaël Hertzog

Le best-seller français mis à jour pour Debian Etch :
http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/


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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Manoj Srivastava]

On Sun, Nov 23 2008, Federico Di Gregorio wrote:

> Il giorno dom, 23/11/2008 alle 17.32 +, Steve Kemp ha scritto:
>> On Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 17:59:13 +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote:
>> 
>> >  - Send your private Debian GPG Key to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Include
>> >the brand of your perfume and the color of the make-up.
>> 
>>   I find it disappointing to see this posted, and in bad taste.
>
> /me guesses from when having sense of humor evicted started to be a
> requisite for being a Debian developer.

Since when have sexist remarks come under being "humour"? If you
 think locker room conversations and objectification of women are funny,
 I have certain wildly humorous put downs designed specifically for
 people with just retrograde views (I did have a certain reputaion for
 flaming once upon a time). Would you also find it funny if I started
 posting some of my more humourous put downs at you?

manoj
-- 
File cabinet: A four drawer, manually activated trash compactor.
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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Florian Weimer]

* Manoj Srivastava:

> Since when have sexist remarks come under being "humour"?

At least since 1420 or so (Oswald von Wolkenstein, "Durch Barbarei,
Arabia").  There are probably way older examples.


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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Miriam Ruiz]

2008/11/23 Amaya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Steve Kemp wrote:
>>  with debian-women making strides forward it seems this was a step
>>  backward.
>
> Same here

+1

I'm very dissappointed with this, to be honest.

Greetings,
Miry


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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Federico Di Gregorio]

Il giorno dom, 23/11/2008 alle 13.57 -0600, Manoj Srivastava ha scritto:
> On Sun, Nov 23 2008, Federico Di Gregorio wrote:
> 
> > Il giorno dom, 23/11/2008 alle 17.32 +, Steve Kemp ha scritto:
> >> On Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 17:59:13 +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> >> 
> >> >  - Send your private Debian GPG Key to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Include
> >> >the brand of your perfume and the color of the make-up.
> >> 
> >>   I find it disappointing to see this posted, and in bad taste.
> >
> > /me guesses from when having sense of humor evicted started to be a
> > requisite for being a Debian developer.
> 
> Since when have sexist remarks come under being "humour"? If you
>  think locker room conversations and objectification of women are funny,
>  I have certain wildly humorous put downs designed specifically for
>  people with just retrograde views (I did have a ekcertain reputaion for
>  flaming once upon a time). Would you also find it funny if I started
>  posting some of my more humourous put downs at you?

Yes (I'd find it funny). That's what humour is.

-- 
Federico Di Gregorio http://people.initd.org/fog
Debian GNU/Linux Developer[EMAIL PROTECTED]
INIT.D Developer   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  The reverse side also has a reverse side.  -- Japanese proverb


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#501774 - where should the library source go?

[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

folks, hi,
with respect to RFP #501744 pyjamas package, i thought it best to
explain the code's layout and also ask some advice on where files
should be installed.

pyjamas is general-purpose compiler technology, not just a random
"dumb" tool with a single fixed - and unexpandable - purpose. the
libraries that come with the current versions of pyjamas are the
_first_ of their kind, but they certainly won't be the last.

the code is broken down as follows:

* pyjs/pyjs.py - the python-to-javascript compiler.  takes input file
name or stdin, outputs to stdout or output file.  module pathnames
_have_ to be given to it, to make sure that it DOES NOT read in any
python modules from STANDARD python2.4/2.5/2.6 locations. suitable for
general-purpose use.

* builder/build.py - a specialised builder which is targetted at
building web applications: it adds the default pyjamas-web "library"
path automatically; it adds a few pngs, gifs and outputs an html
template into a subdirectory.  NOT suitable for general-purpose use.

* library/pyjslib.py - a dedicated library that provides
javascript-equivalents of python builtins "List, Dict, Tuple, str,
len" etc. etc. suitable for general-purpose use.

* library/ui.py, DOM.py, Window.py etc - the web-specific libraries
that provide the basis for pyjamas "widgets" running _specifically_ in
web browsers.  like build.py, these library files are not appropriate
for general-purpose use.

so that's the background.  the equivalence, if this was gcc, would be
as follows:

* pyjs.py would be /usr/bin/gcc

* build.py would be... ohh... perhaps something like... autoconf.

* pyjslib.py would be /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.3.2/libgcc.a

* DOM.py would be ... ooo... /usr/lib/libglib.so and /usr/include/glib/glib.h

* ui.py would be... /usr/lib/libgtk.so

my question, therefore, is:  where in hell's name should these files
be installed

* pyjs.py is obvious: it goes into /usr/bin/pyjs.py

* build.py is slighly less obvious: it should be called /usr/bin/pyjswebbuild.py

* pyjslib.py i have absolutely NO clue about.
/usr/share/pyjamas/library/pyjslib.py ?
/usr/lib/pyjs/library/pyjslib.py ?

* DOM.py and ui.py etc. i have NO clue.
/usr/share/pyjamas/library/pyjamas/DOM.py ui.py Window.py etc. ?
/usr/lib/pyjs/pyjamas/DOM.py ?

these files MUST be kept the hell away from "standard" python: pyjamas
is a COMPLETELY different toolchain, it's a completely separate
compiler, that _happens_ to take its input as python and _happens_ to
output javascript.  pyjamas must neither be allowed to get
non-explicitly-given access to standard python (/usr/lib/python*,
/usr/share/python-support/*) not must standard python be given access
to pyjamas libraries.

that being the case, someone needs to "invent" a standard location
where all libraries contained as part of the pyjamas "package", and
all FUTURE libraries which depend, in future, on the pyjamas compiler,
are to be installed.

can anyone come up with any good ideas?

ta,

l.


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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Russ Allbery]

Federico Di Gregorio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Il giorno dom, 23/11/2008 alle 17.32 +, Steve Kemp ha scritto:
>> On Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 17:59:13 +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote:

>>>  - Send your private Debian GPG Key to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Include
>>>the brand of your perfume and the color of the make-up.

>>   I find it disappointing to see this posted, and in bad taste.

> /me guesses from when having sense of humor evicted started to be a
> requisite for being a Debian developer.

It's not about whether or not the parody was funny.  It's that the same
parody could have been made, just as funny, without the completely
gratuitous sexism.

-- 
Russ Allbery ([EMAIL PROTECTED])   


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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Martin Langhoff]

On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 3:36 PM, Miriam Ruiz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm very dissappointed with this, to be honest.

Agreed - devel-announce is for, um, project announcements. Not a jokes
list. And with the large and varied group of users and developers
Debian has, tact and tolerance are a good idea.

Sexism is just one of many stupid-isms to avoid. When we talk about
Debian as the "universal OS", it's a good idea top pictura that intent
extending to the human hardware and software it runs on.

cheers,



m
-- 
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 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect
 - ask interesting questions
 - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
 - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff


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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Amaya]

Steve Kemp wrote:
>  with debian-women making strides forward it seems this was a step
>  backward.

Same here

-- 
  ·''`.  It's never too late to have a happy childhood
 : :' :
 `. `'
   `- Proudly running Debian GNU/Linux


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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Noah Slater]

On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 01:57:28PM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> Since when have sexist remarks come under being "humour"? If you
>  think locker room conversations and objectification of women are funny,

Maybe I'm missing something. Which parts of the original email, specifically,
were sexist or objectifying of women?

Can you explain why? I am genuinely confused.

Just as an advert for a men's perfume in real life would advertise that it
attracted women to you, it is reasonable to assume that a parody of a perfume
company would use the same advertising. Do you consider all perfume companies to
be sexist? Even the perfume companies for women? Or is it the word "chick" that
has upset people? If so, why? Is this any different from "dude"?

Thanks,

-- 
Noah Slater, http://tumbolia.org/nslater


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For those who care about lesbians reloaded (Was: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount)

[Pierre Habouzit]

On dim, nov 23, 2008 at 05:52:46 +, Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho wrote:
> I found it generally hilarious and a well-made point, though I agree the
> presentation could have been in better taste.


On dim, nov 23, 2008 at 08:23:02 +, Amaya wrote:
> Steve Kemp wrote:
> >  with debian-women making strides forward it seems this was a step
> >  backward.
> 
> Same here

On dim, nov 23, 2008 at 05:03:27 +, Scott Dier wrote:
> Sure, the first message shouldn't have been on announce, but its 
> impossible to fix a wrong with yet another wrong.

[and so on]

FWIW we had this discussion already:

http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/01/msg00920.html

Could we fucking stop repeating the same old discussions over and over
and over ? every two year we troll about firmwares, bad jokes on d-d-a,
what else ?

COULD WE PLEASE FUCKING LEARN FROM OUR PAST PLEASE ?

-- 
·O·  Pierre Habouzit
··O[EMAIL PROTECTED]
OOOhttp://www.madism.org


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Re: For those who care about lesbians reloaded (Was: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount)

[Steve Kemp]

On Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 22:17:44 +0100, Pierre Habouzit wrote:

> FWIW we had this discussion already:
> 
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/01/msg00920.html
> 
> Could we fucking stop repeating the same old discussions over and over
> and over ? every two year we troll about firmwares, bad jokes on d-d-a,
> what else ?
> 
> COULD WE PLEASE FUCKING LEARN FROM OUR PAST PLEASE ?

  If sexism keeps being repeated then I will continue to complain.
  Or quit.

  Firmware, etc, is unrelated.  No need for all caps.

Steve
-- 
Debian GNU/Linux System Administration
http://www.debian-administration.org/



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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Manoj Srivastava]

On Sun, Nov 23 2008, Federico Di Gregorio wrote:


> Yes (I'd find it funny). That's what humour is.

hen you are a retrograde, beetle browed moron.

manoj

 ha ha
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their good points and qualifications in just 30 seconds.
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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Manoj Srivastava]

On Sun, Nov 23 2008, Florian Weimer wrote:

> * Manoj Srivastava:
>
>> Since when have sexist remarks come under being "humour"?
>
> At least since 1420 or so (Oswald von Wolkenstein, "Durch Barbarei,
> Arabia").  There are probably way older examples.

Yes, the same time period that brought us the inquisition. You
 must really think that Bush was actually doing god's work in gitmo,
 based on where you think definitions of right and wrong come from.

manoj
-- 
Be open to other people -- they may enrich your dream.
Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   
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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Miriam Ruiz]

2008/11/23 Noah Slater <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 01:57:28PM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>> Since when have sexist remarks come under being "humour"? If you
>>  think locker room conversations and objectification of women are funny,
>
> Maybe I'm missing something. Which parts of the original email, specifically,
> were sexist or objectifying of women?

Are you serious in this? I thought we had already overcome that, but
if you really mean it and it's not just trolling, we can start
explaining it all again from the beginning, maybe it's needed after
all.

Miry


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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Federico Di Gregorio]

Il giorno dom, 23/11/2008 alle 15.17 -0600, Manoj Srivastava ha scritto:
> On Sun, Nov 23 2008, Federico Di Gregorio wrote:
> 
> 
> > Yes (I'd find it funny). That's what humour is.
> 
> hen you are a retrograde, beetle browed moron.


Mm.. sincerely from someone of your flaming fame I expected something
better. I'll make it do. :D

federico

-- 
Federico Di Gregorio http://people.initd.org/fog
Debian GNU/Linux Developer[EMAIL PROTECTED]
INIT.D Developer   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 In some countries (e.g., Germany) even many brands of toilet paper have
  format A6. [http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/iso-paper.html]


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Re: #501774 - where should the library source go?

[Thomas Viehmann]

Hi Luke,

Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
> with respect to RFP #501744 pyjamas package, i thought it best to
> explain the code's layout and also ask some advice on where files
> should be installed.
I should think that most of it should be somewhere under
/usr/share/pyjamas, the builder probably not, but it needs a better name
pyjamas-build or so to go into /usr/bin.

> * pyjs.py would be /usr/bin/gcc

> * build.py would be... ohh... perhaps something like... autoconf.
Not more like make? I never called pyjs directly.

> my question, therefore, is:  where in hell's name should these files
> be installed

> * pyjs.py is obvious: it goes into /usr/bin/pyjs.py
I wouldn't unless one needs to call it directly. Also, lose the .py for
stuff in /usr/bin

> * build.py is slighly less obvious: it should be called 
> /usr/bin/pyjswebbuild.py
Similar.

> * pyjslib.py i have absolutely NO clue about.
> /usr/share/pyjamas/library/pyjslib.py ?
> /usr/lib/pyjs/library/pyjslib.py ?
> * DOM.py and ui.py etc. i have NO clue.
> /usr/share/pyjamas/library/pyjamas/DOM.py ui.py Window.py etc. ?
> /usr/lib/pyjs/pyjamas/DOM.py ?
These (both "*"s) should all go somewhere under /usr/share/pyjamas.
share vs. lib is whether the files are *arch*-dependent, which they are not.

> that being the case, someone needs to "invent" a standard location
> where all libraries contained as part of the pyjamas "package", and
> all FUTURE libraries which depend, in future, on the pyjamas compiler,
> are to be installed.

Well, the question I'd have is whether pyjamas really is stable enough
to go into unstable.

> can anyone come up with any good ideas?

For the most part, you seem to have figured it all out already.

Kind regards

T.


-- 
Thomas Viehmann, http://thomas.viehmann.net/


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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Frank]

WTF?

2008/11/23 Josselin Mouette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> Hi
>
> SmellyWerewolf.com are kindly offering every Debian Developer a discount
> on their whole perfumes and make-up catalog[1]. If you apply under the
> procedure outlined below, you will pay according to "Rate Eeencredible",
> which at the time of this writing means 20% more chicks loving you!
>
> Steps to follow:
>  - If you do not already own perfume bottle, buy one at your nearest
>   convenience store.
>
>  - If you are goth, transsexual, female or simply metrosexual, you also
>   need to buy make-up at the same place.
>
>  - Send your private Debian GPG Key to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Include
>   the brand of your perfume and the color of the make-up.
>
>  - Wait for an OK reply and your new "good friends" will be delivered
>   directly at home.
>
>
> If you don't want the chicks, you should still buy the perfume and the
> make-up, cause you know, that can't hurt, and in this time of economic
> crisis, the Lust industry needs your help.
>
> [1] http://malsain.org/SmellyWerewolf
>
>
> About SmellyWerewolf.com:
> Created in 1415 after the battle of Agincourt and purchased in 1802 by
> an experienced vampire who wanted to hide his horrible corpse smell, the
> Romanian company Smelly Werewolf delivers about 750,000 bottles of
> perfume for geeks in 198 countries around the works, which places the
> company around the leading make-up providers in Angola, and third in the
> World of Darkness.
> Today, Smelly Werewolf is considered as a strong point of reference
> among vampires and zombies. The company's goal is to create an
> alternative and independent line of products destined to the undead.
> Smelly Werewolf is devoted to giving everyone enough blood for their
> needs, whether it is by allowing you to hide your corpse smell in
> birthday parties or by leading chicks directly to your home. In short,
> we enable people to claim new sex slaves for a very personal experience
> of professional quality. Our clients range from vampire individuals,
> packs of werewolves and small Elysiums to worldwide zombie attacks, and
> it's something that you should be deeply afraid of.
>
> --
> bye, the Committee for sexy developers
>

Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Noah Slater]

On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 10:35:10PM +0100, Miriam Ruiz wrote:
> 2008/11/23 Noah Slater <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 01:57:28PM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> >> Since when have sexist remarks come under being "humour"? If you
> >>  think locker room conversations and objectification of women are funny,
> >
> > Maybe I'm missing something. Which parts of the original email, 
> > specifically,
> > were sexist or objectifying of women?
>
> Are you serious in this? I thought we had already overcome that, but
> if you really mean it and it's not just trolling, we can start
> explaining it all again from the beginning, maybe it's needed after
> all.

Yes, very serious, and not trolling.

Please quote from the original email explaining to me how it is sexist.

Note, I am not saying it is not sexist, only that I can't see it. If you show
something to me that I have overlooked I am more than likely to say "aah, I see
now", but I genuinely don't see what the problem is. Was it the language used?
If so, how? The allusions made? If so, what allusions? The use of perfume or the
implication that Debian developers are male? If so, can you explain a little?

-- 
Noah Slater, http://tumbolia.org/nslater


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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Noah Slater]

On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 03:17:09PM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> hen you are a retrograde, beetle browed moron.

Ah, the discussion has descended into name calling! Superb!

-- 
Noah Slater, http://tumbolia.org/nslater


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Re: #501774 - where should the library source go?

[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 10:03 PM, Thomas Viehmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Luke,

 hiya thomas.

> Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:

>> * build.py would be... ohh... perhaps something like... autoconf.
> Not more like make?

  *hand-waving* :)

>I never called pyjs directly.

 me only for _really_ obscure stuff / demo purposes.

>> my question, therefore, is:  where in hell's name should these files
>> be installed

>> * pyjs.py is obvious: it goes into /usr/bin/pyjs.py
> I wouldn't unless one needs to call it directly. Also, lose the .py for
> stuff in /usr/bin

 ack.

>> * pyjslib.py i have absolutely NO clue about.
>> /usr/share/pyjamas/library/pyjslib.py ?
>> /usr/lib/pyjs/library/pyjslib.py ?
>> * DOM.py and ui.py etc. i have NO clue.
>> /usr/share/pyjamas/library/pyjamas/DOM.py ui.py Window.py etc. ?
>> /usr/lib/pyjs/pyjamas/DOM.py ?
> These (both "*"s) should all go somewhere under /usr/share/pyjamas.
> share vs. lib is whether the files are *arch*-dependent, which they are not.

 oh, is that what the difference is? :)

>> that being the case, someone needs to "invent" a standard location
>> where all libraries contained as part of the pyjamas "package", and
>> all FUTURE libraries which depend, in future, on the pyjamas compiler,
>> are to be installed.
>
> Well, the question I'd have is whether pyjamas really is stable enough
> to go into unstable.

 suuure :)  as stable as can be, with MS changing the bloody
user-agent string in IE7.

 well if FreeBSD can turn 0.3 into a release, then what the heck.  but
yes - there has to be a 0.3.1 release before pyjamas can be packaged:
the recent change in the IE user-agent string from "MSIE 7" to "MSIE7"
causes pyjamas 0.3 to fallback to "old mozilla" which is a bit of a
screw-up.

>> can anyone come up with any good ideas?
>
> For the most part, you seem to have figured it all out already.

 random guesses ha ha

 thanks for the kicks in the right direction.

 l.


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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Manoj Srivastava]

On Sun, Nov 23 2008, Noah Slater wrote:

You are missing context.

> On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 03:17:09PM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>>On Sun, Nov 23 2008, Federico Di Gregorio wrote:
>>>Il giorno dom, 23/11/2008 alle 13.57 -0600, Manoj Srivastava ha scritto:
 On Sun, Nov 23 2008, Federico Di Gregorio wrote:
 
 > Il giorno dom, 23/11/2008 alle 17.32 +, Steve Kemp ha scritto:
 >> On Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 17:59:13 +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote:
>>> >> 
>>> >> >  - Send your private Debian GPG Key to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Include
>>> >> >the brand of your perfume and the color of the make-up.
>>> >> 
>>> >>   I find it disappointing to see this posted, and in bad taste.
>>> >
>>> > /me guesses from when having sense of humor evicted started to be a
>>> > requisite for being a Debian developer.
>>> 
>>> Since when have sexist remarks come under being "humour"? If you
>>>  think locker room conversations and objectification of women are funny,
>>>  I have certain wildly humorous put downs designed specifically for
>>>  people with just retrograde views (I did have a ekcertain reputaion for
>>>  flaming once upon a time). Would you also find it funny if I started
>>>  posting some of my more humourous put downs at you?
>>
>>Yes (I'd find it funny). That's what humour is.

>> hen you are a retrograde, beetle browed moron.

> Ah, the discussion has descended into name calling! Superb!

No, the email is making a point.

The point was, that most people doi not see put downs designed
 specifically for people with just retrograde views  as funny -- and
 thank you indeed for being a straight man for my punch line.

This goes to people who think that sexist comments and put downs
 are funny -- the audience at large does not seem to think so. If you
 want further proof, just wait and see how many people flame me for
 demonstrating how the obnoxious comments are funny crowd is not anywhere
 close to a a significant segment of the list membership.

manoj
-- 
Talk of revolution is one way of avoiding reality.  -- John Kenneth
Galbraith
Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C


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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Miriam Ruiz]

2008/11/23 Noah Slater <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 10:35:10PM +0100, Miriam Ruiz wrote:
>> 2008/11/23 Noah Slater <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>> > On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 01:57:28PM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>> >> Since when have sexist remarks come under being "humour"? If you
>> >>  think locker room conversations and objectification of women are funny,
>> >
>> > Maybe I'm missing something. Which parts of the original email, 
>> > specifically,
>> > were sexist or objectifying of women?
>>
>> Are you serious in this? I thought we had already overcome that, but
>> if you really mean it and it's not just trolling, we can start
>> explaining it all again from the beginning, maybe it's needed after
>> all.
>
> Yes, very serious, and not trolling.
>
> Please quote from the original email explaining to me how it is sexist.

Sexism defines the ideology of male supremacy, of male superiority and
of beliefs that support and sustain it.  Sexism and patriarchy
mutually reinforce one another
http://www.ruralwomyn.net/define.html#sexism

A social relationship in which males have authority over females.
www.personal.utulsa.edu/~lara-foley/definitions.htm

Sexism: An ideology that assumes a hierarchy of human worth based on
the social construction of gender difference Sexism was developed to
claim superiority of men over women, based on the idea that "natural"
gender norms are a fixed and immutable reality.
http://www.publiceye.org/glossary/glossary_big.html#s

Sexism describes discrimination against someone on the grounds of their gender.
http://www.equality-ne.co.uk/resources/glossary.html?letter=S

Androcentrism – Male centeredness, which is the value set of our
dominant culture based on male norms.  Any account which characterizes
aspects of women's lives as deviant is androcentric.
http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~lara-foley/definitions.htm

androcentrism: An ideological focus on males and men, and issues
affecting them, possibly to the detriment of non-males.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/androcentrism

Apart from the fact that d-d-a is not a list for making stupid jokes,
here you find:
- The use of the word "chick" in reference to females. Chick is a
slightly derogatory, condescending common usage (slang) expression for
a young woman. I know that there's an open discussion on this, in any
case it refers to a hot or cute female.
- The only mention women get in the text is thus through a sexual
objetification.
- It is obviously openly ignoring the existence of females in the
mailing list, stating "male" as the norm there. Androcentrism.

Sorry but Debian is not a men's club and we're not their "chicks".

Greetings,
Miry


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Re: For those who care about lesbians reloaded (Was: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount)

[Cyril Brulebois]

Pierre Habouzit <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (23/11/2008):
> Could we f*ing stop repeating the same old discussions over and over
> and over ? every two year we troll about firmwares, bad jokes on
> d-d-a, what else ?
> 
> COULD WE PLEASE F*ING LEARN FROM OUR PAST PLEASE ?

You may want not to use some derivatives of the F-word in a sex-related
discussion.

Should I precise it's being said on a tongue-in-chick tone? :)

Mraw,
KiBi.


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Michael Poole]

Miriam Ruiz writes:

> Apart from the fact that d-d-a is not a list for making stupid jokes,
> here you find:
> - The use of the word "chick" in reference to females. Chick is a
> slightly derogatory, condescending common usage (slang) expression for
> a young woman. I know that there's an open discussion on this, in any
> case it refers to a hot or cute female.
> - The only mention women get in the text is thus through a sexual
> objetification.
> - It is obviously openly ignoring the existence of females in the
> mailing list, stating "male" as the norm there. Androcentrism.
>
> Sorry but Debian is not a men's club and we're not their "chicks".

When do we get to the self-righteous outrage about the
net-hosting-user-centric view perpetuated by the "hosting discount"
email?

If we do not expect to have that, why is this -- rather tenuous --
alleged sexism so different?

I say rather tenuous because males are a marked minority in the market
for the products mentioned in the satire, so it's hard for me to
understand how it constitutes androcentrism.  Your entire hypothesis
on why the satire was sexist, in fact, is explicitly heteronormative.
Aren't you concerned about offending non-straight members of the
Debian community?

Michael Poole


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Re: For those who care about lesbians reloaded (Was: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount)

[Pierre Habouzit]

On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 09:26:48PM +, Steve Kemp wrote:
> On Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 22:17:44 +0100, Pierre Habouzit wrote:
> 
> > FWIW we had this discussion already:
> > 
> > http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/01/msg00920.html
> > 
> > Could we fucking stop repeating the same old discussions over and over
> > and over ? every two year we troll about firmwares, bad jokes on d-d-a,
> > what else ?
> > 
> > COULD WE PLEASE FUCKING LEARN FROM OUR PAST PLEASE ?
> 
>   If sexism keeps being repeated then I will continue to complain.

I just don't care. We had the very same discussion 2 years ago. Nothing
good came out of it, nothing will this time either. I see no point in
trolling on -devel@ on the subject. Just answer privately to Joss if he
hurt your feelings, but this thread will go nowhere, like it went
nowhere last time.

I'm generally annoyed with the Nietzsche syndrome the Project is having.
Okay, life is about perpetual resumption, but we _really_ have a too low
characteristic time for it, and it annoys the crap out of me.


>   Or quit.

And, I'll hold my breath until nobody on earth will dare to tell a
sexist joke again !



-- 
·O·  Pierre Habouzit
··O[EMAIL PROTECTED]
OOOhttp://www.madism.org


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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Eduard Bloch]

#include 
* Josselin Mouette [Sun, Nov 23 2008, 05:59:13PM]:
> Hi
> 
> SmellyWerewolf.com are kindly offering every Debian Developer a discount
> on their whole perfumes and make-up catalog[1]. If you apply under the

Dude, a good job! For a split second I though Andrew was back and I had
to reread the mail header a few times.

ROTFLMAO,
Eduard.

-- 
 Madkiss: Niemand kann so die Nachrichten mehr aufbereiten, dass
Otto-Normal-Bürger die versteht, da dieser viel zu dämlich dafür ist.


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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Eduard Bloch]

#include 
* Miriam Ruiz [Mon, Nov 24 2008, 12:07:53AM]:
 
> Apart from the fact that d-d-a is not a list for making stupid jokes,
> here you find:

Show me the law or the SC part saying that jokes have to be serious.

> - The only mention women get in the text is thus through a sexual
> objetification.
> - It is obviously openly ignoring the existence of females in the
> mailing list, stating "male" as the norm there. Androcentrism.
> 
> Sorry but Debian is not a men's club and we're not their "chicks".

Come on, peace! I respect you as woman or man or whoever you are, there
is no need to polarize the discussion.

Regards,
Eduard.

-- 
 wie führt man noch mal ein shellscript aus?
 ausdrucken, einstecken, zum italiener gehen, auf nen stuhl legen
 ... und sag ihm ein paar nette Sachen, das mögen sie


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Re: For those who care about lesbians reloaded (Was: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount)

[Michael Banck]

On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 01:18:14AM +0100, Pierre Habouzit wrote:
> I just don't care. We had the very same discussion 2 years ago. Nothing
> good came out of it, nothing will this time either. I see no point in
> trolling on -devel@ on the subject. Just answer privately to Joss if he
> hurt your feelings, but this thread will go nowhere, like it went
> nowhere last time.

Joss did not hurt my feelings, but he did hurt the project's outside
appearance (which for most outsiders is defined as "at least whatever
gets posted to -news, -anounce and -devel-announce", like it or not) by
making us look like jerks or sexists and whatnot.  


Michael

PS: Besides, I was under the impression that the social pressure Andrew
faced after his d-d-a faux pas was partly responsible for his
resignation, so there would have been some sort of outcome indeed, but
maybe I am misremembering.


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Re: For those who care about lesbians reloaded (Was: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount)

[Steve McIntyre]

Michael Banck wrote:
>On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 01:18:14AM +0100, Pierre Habouzit wrote:
>> I just don't care. We had the very same discussion 2 years ago. Nothing
>> good came out of it, nothing will this time either. I see no point in
>> trolling on -devel@ on the subject. Just answer privately to Joss if he
>> hurt your feelings, but this thread will go nowhere, like it went
>> nowhere last time.
>
>Joss did not hurt my feelings, but he did hurt the project's outside
>appearance (which for most outsiders is defined as "at least whatever
>gets posted to -news, -anounce and -devel-announce", like it or not) by
>making us look like jerks or sexists and whatnot.  

And because of that I've asked the listmasters to block him from
posting to d-d-a.

Let's stop the discussion now, please. I'm sure we've all got better
things to do with our time.

-- 
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.[EMAIL PROTECTED]
You lock the door
And throw away the key
There's someone in my head but it's not me 


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Re: Bug#505968: ITP: urlwatch -- email notifications of changes to URLs

[Francois Marier]

Hi Lucas,

Thanks for the CC by the way, I'm not subscribed to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

On 2008-11-17 at 11:57:44, Lucas Nussbaum wrote:
> websec provides very similar functionality. Is urlwatch better than
> websec?

Good question. Here's what the author of urlwatch has to say about it:

---
urlwatch has an easier configuration (urls.txt is just a text file with
one URL per line), websec has a more sophisticated (read: complicated)
way of setting up things.

urlwatch can look for non-existent pages (i.e. you enter a URL and as
soon as it becomes available, e.g. non-404, you get notified).

urlwatch is written in Python, so newcomers and advanced users familiar
with Python have an easier time customizing the hooks.py file and the
program itself.

urlwatch always sends you plaintext mail, no HTML (a _good_ thing!)

In my opinion, urlwatch has an easier way of getting rid of
always-changing content via the hooks.py file. It also allows things
like watching ical files for changes without having to understand the
ical format (by transforming ical to plaintext, see the examples).

For web pages (HTML), urlwatch supports cleaning up bad HTML to have
easier-to-read diffs via utidylib.
---

Cheers,
Francois


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Re: Bug#505968: ITP: urlwatch -- email notifications of changes to URLs

[Francois Marier]

> On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 10:23:28PM +1300, Francois Marier wrote:
> > The script works out of a single directory, so no need to install
> > anything. State files are kept in the same folder.
>
> ...except you are packaging it, so you'll need to install the .deb,
> right? I don't think this sentence belongs in the package description.

You're right, it won't be part of the package description :)

> Also, where do you intend for the urls.txt and state information to be
> saved? the upstream script does
>
>   os.chdir(os.path.dirname(os.path.abspath(sys.argv[0])))
>
> and then writes stuff in the CWD, which would not be appropriate for a
> package (since you'd have the script in /usr/bin).

The latest version of the upstream tarball has per-user config variables, so
every user will be able to have their own "watch file".

Cheers,
Francois


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Re: For those who care about lesbians reloaded (Was: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount)

[Mohammed Adnène Trojette]

On Mon, Nov 24, 2008, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> And because of that I've asked the listmasters to block him from
> posting to d-d-a.
> 
> Let's stop the discussion now, please. I'm sure we've all got better
> things to do with our time.

Community, Identity, Stability.

Brave New World,
-- 
Adnène


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Re: For those who care about lesbians reloaded (Was: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount)

[Steve Langasek]

On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 01:42:08AM +0100, Michael Banck wrote:

> PS: Besides, I was under the impression that the social pressure Andrew
> faced after his d-d-a faux pas was partly responsible for his
> resignation, so there would have been some sort of outcome indeed, but
> maybe I am misremembering.

On the contrary, he posted to d-d-a with full intention to leave the project
afterwards...

-- 
Steve Langasek   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer   to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Steve Langasek]

On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 12:07:53AM +0100, Miriam Ruiz wrote:
> Apart from the fact that d-d-a is not a list for making stupid jokes,
> here you find:
> - The use of the word "chick" in reference to females. Chick is a
> slightly derogatory, condescending common usage (slang) expression for
> a young woman.

So "linuxchix.org" is a slightly derogatory, condescending domain name for
young women involved in Linux?

Or is this just an example of a gratuitous double-standard?

> I know that there's an open discussion on this, in any case it refers to a
> hot or cute female.

> - The only mention women get in the text is thus through a sexual
> objetification.

This amounts to concluding that any mention of sexuality is sexual
objectification of women, which is patently absurd.

> - It is obviously openly ignoring the existence of females in the
> mailing list, stating "male" as the norm there. Androcentrism.

Stating "if you are [...] female" is ignoring the existence of females?

-- 
Steve Langasek   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer   to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Russ Allbery]

Michael Poole <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> When do we get to the self-righteous outrage about the
> net-hosting-user-centric view perpetuated by the "hosting discount"
> email?
>
> If we do not expect to have that, why is this -- rather tenuous --
> alleged sexism so different?

The net-hosting message I wasn't interested in, but I didn't find it
offensive.  I found the sexist follow-up joke offensive, so I said
something about that.  That's normally how this works.

-- 
Russ Allbery ([EMAIL PROTECTED])   


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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Ben Finney]

Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 12:07:53AM +0100, Miriam Ruiz wrote:
> > - The only mention women get in the text is thus through a sexual
> > objetification.
> 
> This amounts to concluding that any mention of sexuality is sexual
> objectification of women, which is patently absurd.

No, the claim isn't that broad. The message specifically discusses
women as objects: it promises they will be “delivered directly at
home”, and the entire message discusses women as some kind of reward
being offered to customers.

-- 
 \ “Holy tintinnabulation, Batman!” —Robin |
  `\   |
_o__)  |
Ben Finney


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For those who don't learn to choose sane subjects (Was: For those who care ...)

[Andreas Tille]

On Sun, 23 Nov 2008, Pierre Habouzit wrote:


Could we fucking stop repeating the same old discussions over and over
and over ? every two year we troll about firmwares, bad jokes on d-d-a,
what else ?

COULD ...


Bingo.  You scored another point on the "beeing able to commnicate nicely"
list of your future employer (or those who will perhaps not employ people
like you).  But this is your personal hobby.  Making Debian lists even
more attractive for spammers is not.

If you want to get more Google hits for irrelevant subjects on mailing
lists I would prefer you would choose other projects to entertain this
hobby.

I think if you are refering to "learning from the past" you failed
as well.

Andreas.

--
http://fam-tille.de


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Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume & make-up discount

[Sune Vuorela]

On 2008-11-23, Miriam Ruiz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Please quote from the original email explaining to me how it is sexist.
>
> Sexism defines the ideology of male supremacy, of male superiority and
> of beliefs that support and sustain it.  Sexism and patriarchy
> mutually reinforce one another
> http://www.ruralwomyn.net/define.html#sexism
>
> A social relationship in which males have authority over females.
> www.personal.utulsa.edu/~lara-foley/definitions.htm
>
> Sexism: An ideology that assumes a hierarchy of human worth based on
> the social construction of gender difference Sexism was developed to
> claim superiority of men over women, based on the idea that "natural"
> gender norms are a fixed and immutable reality.
> http://www.publiceye.org/glossary/glossary_big.html#s

Isn't these definitions quite gynocentric and androphobic?

/Sune
 - who is learning new words today.


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Re: For those who don't learn to choose sane subjects (Was: For those who care ...)

[Mike Hommey]

On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 07:45:58AM +0100, Andreas Tille wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Nov 2008, Pierre Habouzit wrote:
>
>> Could we fucking stop repeating the same old discussions over and over
>> and over ? every two year we troll about firmwares, bad jokes on d-d-a,
>> what else ?
>>
>> COULD ...
>
> Bingo.  You scored another point on the "beeing able to commnicate nicely"
> list of your future employer (or those who will perhaps not employ people
> like you).  But this is your personal hobby.  Making Debian lists even
> more attractive for spammers is not.
>
> If you want to get more Google hits for irrelevant subjects on mailing
> lists I would prefer you would choose other projects to entertain this
> hobby.

Do you know where I could find music sheets for duelling banjos ?

Mike


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Re: For those who don't learn to choose sane subjects (Was: For those who care ...)

[Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho]

On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 08:04:38AM +0100, Mike Hommey wrote [edited by AJK]:
> Do you know where I could find [the music-related thing that shall not be 
> named] ?

Groan :)

-- 
Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho, Jyväskylä, Finland
http://antti-juhani.kaijanaho.fi/newblog/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/antti-juhani/


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Rajender has shared a link with you from mixx.com

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Rajender has shared a link with you from mixx.com

[Mixx]

victor.yllr says:

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 Lemon Law, Auto Lemon Laws, Car Lemon Law, Automobile Lemon Laws
 
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