Re: Bug#500176: This bug is still around and release-critical

[martin f krafft]

also sprach Pierre Habouzit <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008.10.08.1054 +0200]:
> FWIW I've upgraded a machine to replace pdnsd with unbound, it hit that
> bug of course.
[...]
> I don't think this is too hard to ask from someone that is installing
> multiple DNS softwares on the same machine. A bit more user friendly
> steps could help, but well...

I agree that #500176 needs a more generic solution, but I can't
think of any right now. It would be good to have this as a release
goal. One thing I was thinking of was port-xyz virtual packages, but
that already doesn't work with DNS...

-- 
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Re: mpeg encoder patents

[Reinhard Tartler]

Ben Finney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Clint Adams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> We need to stop pretending that patent enforcement is one of our
>> responsibilities
>
> I've not seen anyone argue that it is, nor request that we do such
> enforcement.

Then you have been closing your eyes. I've already given references in
this thread to where this is already happening.

> [0] No, I don't have the specific patents to hand; I'm correcting what
> I see as a false argument, not arguing about specific patents.

please focus on the $subject, or at least indicate that you are changing
the subject by doing so in the mail header.

> Not only does this act expose the Debian project and, possibly, its
> members to such liability, it openly encourages its recipients to
> likewise expose themselves to such liability. That seems to be quite
> contrary to our users's interests.

Only to a minority of our users that need to do a proper legal analysis
on stuff they sell anyways.

-- 
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Reinhard Tartler, KeyID 945348A4


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Re: Bug#500176: This bug is still around and release-critical

[Gerrit Pape]

On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 09:07:00AM +0200, martin f krafft wrote:
> also sprach Pierre Habouzit <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008.10.08.1054 +0200]:
> > FWIW I've upgraded a machine to replace pdnsd with unbound, it hit that
> > bug of course.
> [...]
> > I don't think this is too hard to ask from someone that is installing
> > multiple DNS softwares on the same machine. A bit more user friendly
> > steps could help, but well...
> 
> I agree that #500176 needs a more generic solution, but I can't
> think of any right now. It would be good to have this as a release
> goal. One thing I was thinking of was port-xyz virtual packages, but
> that already doesn't work with DNS...

Maybe
 http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.devel.general/87792/focus=88198

Regards, Gerrit.


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Re: Bug#500176: This bug is still around and release-critical

[Mike Hommey]

On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 09:07:00AM +0200, martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> also sprach Pierre Habouzit <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008.10.08.1054 +0200]:
> > FWIW I've upgraded a machine to replace pdnsd with unbound, it hit that
> > bug of course.
> [...]
> > I don't think this is too hard to ask from someone that is installing
> > multiple DNS softwares on the same machine. A bit more user friendly
> > steps could help, but well...
> 
> I agree that #500176 needs a more generic solution, but I can't
> think of any right now. It would be good to have this as a release
> goal. One thing I was thinking of was port-xyz virtual packages, but
> that already doesn't work with DNS...

Another problem that is looking for a solution is programs such as apache
or dnsmasq which binaries may be used by other software (gnome-user-share,
virt-manager...) but shouldn't be running daemons in this case.
It is especially a PITA when installing and using the daemon screws up your
setup (happened to me with dnsmasq)

Mike


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Processed: Re: Bug#501590: PrintScreen key causes many apps to suddenly die if you are running in Linux text mode

[Debian Bug Tracking System]

Processing commands for [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

> clone 501590 -1
Bug#501590: Please change the established behaviour of PrtScr key
Bug 501590 cloned as bug 501654.

> reassign -1 console-setup
Bug#501654: Please change the established behaviour of PrtScr key
Bug reassigned from package `general' to `console-setup'.

> thanks
Stopping processing here.

Please contact me if you need assistance.

Debian bug tracking system administrator
(administrator, Debian Bugs database)


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Bug#501590: Processed: Re: Bug#501590: PrintScreen key causes many apps to suddenly die if you are running in Linux text mode

[Holger Levsen]

Hi Christian,

I don't understand why you reassigned this bug to general. Surely, if you want 
to discuss this with debian-devel@ you can cc: the list. Reassigning the bug 
to general often achieves nothing (which cannot be achieved by cc:ing) while 
it tends to pile up the list of general bugs and get forgotten.

Also it seems pretty clear to me that the behavior of this wishlist bug is 
either triggered by console-data or linux-2.6.


I wonder if this is also not a bug, but a established feature (so wontfix), 
but I have given up text consoles years ago :-)


regards,
Holger


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ITP: airoscript -- Easy to use interface for aircrack-ng

[David Francos (XayOn)]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: David Francos Cuartero <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: airoscript
  Version : 2.0.7b1
  Upstream Author : Daouid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://airoscript.aircrack-ng.org/
* License : GPL-2
  Programming Lang: Bash
  Description : Easy to use interface for aircrack-ng

Easy to use interface for aircrack-ng written on bash

-- System Information:
Debian Release: lenny/sid
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable'), (500, 'testing'), (1, 'experimental')
Architecture: i386 (i686)


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Re: Packaging shell functions

[Michael Welle]

Hi,

"Eugene V. Lyubimkin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Michael Welle wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I'm packaging a little tool called vared. Vared relies on some shell
>> functions and/or aliases that must have been sourced into the
>> environment before usage. What may be the best pratice to package
>> such shell functions?  
> I would take a look on packaging of 'apparix' tool, it relies on shell
> aliases too for its work.
the user have to copy and paste shell code fragments that are
generated by the apparix binary. This way no person can harm the
packaging guy if some config files are gone south ;).
  
Michael

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Re: Packaging shell functions

[Michael Welle]

Hi,

Michael Meskes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

>> I'm packaging a little tool called vared. Vared relies on some shell
>> functions and/or aliases that must have been sourced into the
>> environment before usage. What may be the best pratice to package
>> such shell functions?
>> ...
>
> How about a little wrapper setting the environment and then executing the 
> real 
> tool?
vared [1] lets you edit environment variables an a fancy way and than
it sets their new value in your current shell session. The shell
functions/aliases are a crude way to work around some limitations
(environment variables can only be propagated downwards the process
tree). With this setup I see no way to build a wrapper, in other
words, the shell functions/aliases are allready a wrapper ;).

Michael, too ;)

[1] http://www.c0t0d0s0.de/vared/

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Re: Packaging shell functions

[Michael Meskes]

> I'm packaging a little tool called vared. Vared relies on some shell
> functions and/or aliases that must have been sourced into the
> environment before usage. What may be the best pratice to package
> such shell functions?
> ...

How about a little wrapper setting the environment and then executing the real 
tool?

Michael
-- 
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Michael at Fam-Meskes dot De, Michael at Meskes dot (De|Com|Net|Org)
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Re: Packaging shell functions

[Clint Adams]

On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 03:04:28PM +0200, Michael Welle wrote:
> vared [1] lets you edit environment variables an a fancy way and than
> it sets their new value in your current shell session. The shell
> functions/aliases are a crude way to work around some limitations
> (environment variables can only be propagated downwards the process
> tree). With this setup I see no way to build a wrapper, in other
> words, the shell functions/aliases are allready a wrapper ;).

Or you could switch to zsh, which already has vared implemented in a
non-hacky way.

Enjoy!


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Re: Packaging shell functions

[Eugene V. Lyubimkin]

Michael Welle wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm packaging a little tool called vared. Vared relies on some shell
> functions and/or aliases that must have been sourced into the
> environment before usage. What may be the best pratice to package
> such shell functions?  
I would take a look on packaging of 'apparix' tool, it relies on shell
aliases too for its work.

-- 
Eugene V. Lyubimkin aka JackYF



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Re: Packaging shell functions

[Michael Welle]

Hi,

Clint Adams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 03:04:28PM +0200, Michael Welle wrote:
>> vared [1] lets you edit environment variables an a fancy way and than
>> it sets their new value in your current shell session. The shell
>> functions/aliases are a crude way to work around some limitations
>> (environment variables can only be propagated downwards the process
>> tree). With this setup I see no way to build a wrapper, in other
>> words, the shell functions/aliases are allready a wrapper ;).
>
> Or you could switch to zsh, which already has vared implemented in a
> non-hacky way.
naughty Clint, no coffee for you the rest of the day ;). Vared is
inspired by its zsh pendant. But before changing to zsh I will cut off
my fingers ;). So I decided to make this nice feature available for
(all?) other shells around this world.

VG
hmw

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Packaging shell functions

[Michael Welle]

Hi,

I'm packaging a little tool called vared. Vared relies on some shell
functions and/or aliases that must have been sourced into the
environment before usage. What may be the best pratice to package
such shell functions?  

First approch is to put the shell code somewhere under
/usr/share/vared and let the rest up to the user. If she wants to use
vared she needs to source the shell code suitable for her shell
somehow. Second approach is to extend the default config files of the
supported shells in the /etc directory. Hm, sounds very ugly to me and
it doesn't really do the job. AFAIK we have no generalized mechanism
like the one provided by the tcsh (do a foreach in a certain directory
and source all contained files)?  

Michael

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Re: Bug#501190: Reworded control

[Robert Millan]

On Wed, Oct 08, 2008 at 12:38:41AM +0100, Jo Shields wrote:
> Package: moonlight-plugin-core
> Architecture: any
> Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}
> Conflicts: moonlight
> Description: open source clone of Microsoft Silverlight - core plugin
>  Moonlight is a free Silverlight clone, allowing Free Software systems to
>  run embedded web-browser objects or standalone code targetting Microsoft
>  Silverlight.

Not true.  Code targetting Microsoft Silverlight may as well depend on
functionality not present in this package.  And in fact the only notable
example I remember (the Chinese Olympics videostreams) did.

Again, I'm pointing to wine as an example, since the situation is the same.
wine has this in its description:

  "This is still a work in progress and many applications may still not work."

Would you please make that clear?  We don't want to deceive our users into
thinking Silverlight is cross-platform, do we?

>  WARNING: This is an implementation of public API documentation published on 
>  MSDN,

Not true.  Take it from de Icaza himself:

  "Microsoft will give us access to the Silverlight specifications: details
  that might be necessary to implement 1.0, beyond what is currently published
  on the web; [...]"
http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2007/Sep-05.html

-- 
Robert Millan

  The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and
  how) you may access your data; but nobody's threatening your freedom: we
  still allow you to remove your data and not access it at all."


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Bug#501590: PrintScreen key causes many apps to suddenly die if you are running in Linux text mode

[Anton Zinoviev]

clone 501590 -1
reassign -1 console-setup
thanks

On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 06:39:59AM +0200, Christian Perrier wrote:
> 
> Quoting Jason Spiro ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> > I assigned it to console-data because it I assume that the bug is
> > caused by the line "keycode 99 = Control_backslash" in
> > console-data/keymaps/i386/include/linux-keys-bare.inc.  I didn't try
> > changing the line and rebooting, so I might be wrong.  If I am wrong,
> > then just reassign to the pseudo-package "general".

I agree that the only practical way to fix this bug is to change the the 
console keymaps.  Thats why I am reassigning a clone to console-setup 
and if Christian doesn't object I intend to fix the keymaps at least 
there.

I will try to make Control+PrintScreen=Control_backslash and 
plain PrintScreen=VoidSymbol.

> I think you're asking for a change that:
> - will change establisehd behaviour for ages

This is true but I don't think anybody will be agains the change in the 
behaviour.  It is not difficult to press Control+PrintScreen instead of 
plain PrintScreen if one needs the old behaviour.

BTW, for many years I am used to pull out the PrintScreen key from the 
keyboards I use on the console.  Notice that on some keyboards there is 
no space between the PrintScreen key and the Insert and Home keys so it 
is realy easy to press that key by accident.

> - needs to be coordinated between many packages, not only console-data

I think only console-data and console-setup.

> - does nto even concern only Debian

True, I can discuss this with the upstream of kbd if you agree.

Anton Zinoviev




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Bug#501694: ITP: libthread-queue-any-perl -- Thread-safe queues for any data-structure

[Matt Zagrabelny]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Matt Zagrabelny <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


* Package name: libthread-queue-any-perl
  Version : 0.09
  Upstream Author : Elizabeth Mattijsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL :
* 
http://search.cpan.org/~elizabeth/Thread-Queue-Any-0.09/lib/Thread/Queue/Any.pm
* License : Same terms as Perl
  Programming Lang: Perl
  Description : Thread-safe queues for any data-structure

A queue, as implemented by Thread::Queue::Any is a thread-safe data
structure that inherits from Thread::Queue. But unlike the standard
Thread::Queue, you can pass (a reference to) any data structure to the
queue.

Apart from the fact that the parameters to enqueue are considered to be
a set that needs to be enqueued together and that dequeue returns all of
the parameters that were enqueued together, this module is a drop-in
replacement for Thread::Queue in every other aspect.

Any number of threads can safely add elements to the end of the list, or
remove elements from the head of the list. (Queues don't permit adding
or removing elements from the middle of the list).

-- System Information:
Debian Release: lenny/sid
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (990, 'unstable'), (500, 'testing'), (500, 'stable'), (1, 
'experimental')
Architecture: i386 (i686)



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Bug#501693: ITP: xmobar -- A lightweight, extensible, text-based status-bar for X11 desktops

[Apollon Oikonomopoulos]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Apollon Oikonomopoulos <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


* Package name: xmobar
  Version : 0.9
  Upstream Author : Andrea Rossato 
* URL : 
http://hackage.haskell.org/cgi-bin/hackage-scripts/package/xmobar
* License : BSD
  Programming Lang: Haskell
  Description : A lightweight, extensible, text-based status-bar for X11 
desktops

xmobar is a minimalistic, text based, status bar. It was designed to
work with the xmonad Window Manager.
It was inspired by the Ion3 status bar, and supports similar features,
like dynamic color management, output templates, and extensibility
through plugins.

- System Information:
Debian Release: lenny/sid
  APT prefers testing
  APT policy: (700, 'testing'), (500, 'stable'), (50, 'unstable'), (1, 
'experimental')
Architecture: i386 (i686)



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Bug#501695: ITP: libghc6-x11-xft-dev -- Haskell bindings for the Xft fontlibrary and the Xrender extension

[Apollon Oikonomopoulos]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Apollon Oikonomopoulos <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


* Package name: libghc6-x11-xft-dev
  Version : 0.3
  Upstream Author : Clemens Fruhwirth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : 
http://hackage.haskell.org/cgi-bin/hackage-scripts/package/X11-xft-0.3
* License : LGPL
  Programming Lang: Haskell
  Description : Haskell bindings for the Xft fontlibrary and the Xrender 
extension

libghc6-x11-xft provides Haskell bindings for Xft, the X Free Type interface
library, and some Xrender parts. It enables Haskell applications to use
TrueType fonts and parts of the X Server's RENDER extension

-- System Information:
Debian Release: lenny/sid
  APT prefers testing
  APT policy: (700, 'testing'), (500, 'stable'), (50, 'unstable'), (1, 
'experimental')
Architecture: i386 (i686)




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Re: List of RC-buggy source packages by maintainer/uploader

[Hideki Yamane]

On Wed, 08 Oct 2008 23:45:08 +0200
Michael Biebl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> They are already marked as done with the correct version.

 unblocked fixed version (thanks, Luk!)
 # and now I say good-bye to RC-buggy list with smile :)


-- 
Regards,

 Hideki Yamane henrich @ debian.or.jp/iijmio-mail.jp
 http://wiki.debian.org/HidekiYamane


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Bug#501590: Processed: Re: Bug#501590: PrintScreen key causes many apps to suddenly die if you are running in Linux text mode

[Christian Perrier]

Quoting Holger Levsen ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> Hi Christian,
> 
> I don't understand why you reassigned this bug to general. Surely, if you 
> want 
> to discuss this with debian-devel@ you can cc: the list. Reassigning the bug 
> to general often achieves nothing (which cannot be achieved by cc:ing) while 
> it tends to pile up the list of general bugs and get forgotten.

Well, here it achieved getting soem discussion. For whatever reason,
I'm unsure it would have happened with a simple CC.

Anton seems to agree that the bug should be fixed.

I'd like to hear more about other people as well. Another option would
be to seek an advice from the Technical Comittee as I feel that
changing a behaviour that is here for ages is not something one can
decide alone.

Particularly in the case of console-data where I always explained that
I try to maintain the package in the best shape I can even though
console stuff is not really something I'm very keen about.

I have nothing against changing the behaviour of PrtScr but,
certainly:

- this can't be done *now*
- this has to be discussed first.

If it is confirmed that only console-data and console-setup are
affected by this, I'm OK to reassign the bug to console-data (as Anton
cloned it for c-s) but, still, that needs some consensus.




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Re: Bug#501190: Reworded control

[Robert Millan]

Btw, please keep in mind that the description issues I pointed out are
relatively unimportant compared to legal risk (and I haven't seen that
being discussed in debian-legal yet).

On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 03:32:48PM +0200, Robert Millan wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 08, 2008 at 12:38:41AM +0100, Jo Shields wrote:
> > Package: moonlight-plugin-core
> > Architecture: any
> > Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}
> > Conflicts: moonlight
> > Description: open source clone of Microsoft Silverlight - core plugin
> >  Moonlight is a free Silverlight clone, allowing Free Software systems to
> >  run embedded web-browser objects or standalone code targetting Microsoft
> >  Silverlight.
> 
> Not true.  Code targetting Microsoft Silverlight may as well depend on
> functionality not present in this package.  And in fact the only notable
> example I remember (the Chinese Olympics videostreams) did.
> 
> Again, I'm pointing to wine as an example, since the situation is the same.
> wine has this in its description:
> 
>   "This is still a work in progress and many applications may still not work."
> 
> Would you please make that clear?  We don't want to deceive our users into
> thinking Silverlight is cross-platform, do we?
> 
> >  WARNING: This is an implementation of public API documentation published 
> > on 
> >  MSDN,
> 
> Not true.  Take it from de Icaza himself:
> 
>   "Microsoft will give us access to the Silverlight specifications: details
>   that might be necessary to implement 1.0, beyond what is currently published
>   on the web; [...]"
> http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2007/Sep-05.html
> 

-- 
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  The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and
  how) you may access your data; but nobody's threatening your freedom: we
  still allow you to remove your data and not access it at all."


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Re: mpeg encoder patents, Was: Bug#501190: ITP: moonlight

[Robert Millan]

On Tue, Oct 07, 2008 at 04:44:40PM +0200, Reinhard Tartler wrote:
> Robert Millan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> >> At the very least, we could distribute them in a specific "patented"
> >> section, with rules similar to non-free, and that we’d only mirror in
> >> countries where it is not a problem.
> >
> > While we are at it, would be nice to have a section for DMCA-impaired 
> > software
> > such as libdvdcss.
> 
> How about this:
> 
>  - introduce a new section 'patented'

But software patents cover algorithms contained in programs, not the
packages themselves.   How about the more descriptive "patent-encumbered"
then?

-- 
Robert Millan

  The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and
  how) you may access your data; but nobody's threatening your freedom: we
  still allow you to remove your data and not access it at all."


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Re: mpeg encoder patents, Was: Bug#501190: ITP: moonlight

[Robert Millan]

On Wed, Oct 08, 2008 at 09:15:16PM +, Clint Adams wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 08, 2008 at 02:30:50PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> > So I think we need to modify the proposal, not the policy.
> 
> We need to stop pretending that patent enforcement is one of our
> responsibilities or that we expose ourself to any kind of liability
> by distributing code that may or may not be patent-encumbered.

It's not about ourselves, we are a non-profit and don't have deep pockets
that patent trolls would want to go after.  It's about the public we're
supposedly serving.

Our users weight the quality of our product against the risk of liability
that it carries.  I think it's obvious we need some balance.  In some cases
(e.g. Linux, Glibc or X11) the risk is low and quality strongly depends on
them; in others (e.g. MPEG encoders) the risk is high and our users don't
really miss anything if we don't ship it.

-- 
Robert Millan

  The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and
  how) you may access your data; but nobody's threatening your freedom: we
  still allow you to remove your data and not access it at all."


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Re: mpeg encoder patents, Was: Bug#501190: ITP: moonlight

[Robert Millan]

On Wed, Oct 08, 2008 at 04:30:09PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
> [...].  I have absolutely no idea whether any
> of the software that I package is affected by some patent.

You're putting all patents in the same bag, and it's not like that.  For
example, if you distribute a windowing system, you're most likely violating
lots of "crap patents" and can't tell which ones, but if you distribute
LAME, you can be sure as hell you are infringing patents from Fraunhofer.

And with Moonlight and Microsoft, you have the added bonus that the authors
themselves paid their tax and politely let you know that you have to pay as
well.

-- 
Robert Millan

  The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and
  how) you may access your data; but nobody's threatening your freedom: we
  still allow you to remove your data and not access it at all."


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Re: mpeg encoder patents, Was: Bug#501190: ITP: moonlight

[Robert Millan]

On Wed, Oct 08, 2008 at 11:41:16AM +0800, Paul Wise wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 1:39 AM, Reinhard Tartler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > I fully agree with you in principle. The 'restricted' idea is basically
> > a convenience service for our users and distributors.
> 
> Such convenience services already exist (debian-multimedia.org,
> debian-unofficial.org), Debian doesn't need to start one.

But they don't get the associated benefits of being officially part of
Debian, like BTS and such.

(which contrib and non-free do *g*)

-- 
Robert Millan

  The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and
  how) you may access your data; but nobody's threatening your freedom: we
  still allow you to remove your data and not access it at all."


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Bug#501707: ITP: biblatex-dw -- Biblatex styles for humanities

[Jan Hauke Rahm]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Jan Hauke Rahm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA224

* Package name: biblatex-dw
  Version : 1.1h
  Upstream Author : Dominik Waßenhoven <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : 
http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/help/Catalogue/entries/biblatex-dw.html
* License : LPPL 1.3
  Description : Biblatex styles for humanities

 biblatex-dw is a small collection of styles for the biblatex package.
 It was designed for citations in the Humanities and offers some
 features that are not provided by the standard biblatex styles.
 biblatex-dw is dependend on biblatex (version 0.7 at least) and cannot
 be used without it!

- -- System Information:
Debian Release: lenny/sid
  APT prefers testing
  APT policy: (700, 'testing')
Architecture: i386 (i686)

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Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)

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IsWhQuIIE9ar1gDfeRj8fxTVhVh+eIetEYSCYH9hdD9yLwaQTnYd4Q==
=EKoO
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Re: mpeg encoder patents, Was: Bug#501190: ITP: moonlight

[Robert Millan]

On Tue, Oct 07, 2008 at 05:54:22PM +0200, Holger Levsen wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Tuesday 07 October 2008 16:44, Reinhard Tartler wrote:
> >  - packages in 'patented' must fulfill the requirements of the dfsg
> 
> I dont think we should support the obsolete, useless & wrong patent system by 
> doing this.

If we're going to ignore patent-based liabilities altogether, then let us
be vocal about it and issue an official statement (read: GR-backed) with
our position.

As long as we don't, if we include a certain package that is widely believed
to be patent-encumbered, we're sending a message claiming that it is not.  I
don't appreciate the Moonlight folks trying to use Debian for this purpose.

Whatever the choice is, let us at least be consistent...

-- 
Robert Millan

  The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and
  how) you may access your data; but nobody's threatening your freedom: we
  still allow you to remove your data and not access it at all."


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Re: mpeg encoder patents, Was: Bug#501190: ITP: moonlight

[Reinhard Tartler]

Robert Millan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Our users weight the quality of our product against the risk of liability
> that it carries.  I think it's obvious we need some balance.  In some cases
> (e.g. Linux, Glibc or X11) the risk is low and quality strongly depends on
> them; in others (e.g. MPEG encoders) the risk is high and our users don't
> really miss anything if we don't ship it.

I disagree that our users miss the MPEG encoders. They do already, badly.

-- 
Gruesse/greetings,
Reinhard Tartler, KeyID 945348A4


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Re: mpeg encoder patents, Was: Bug#501190: ITP: moonlight

[Reinhard Tartler]

Robert Millan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> But software patents cover algorithms contained in programs, not the
> packages themselves.   How about the more descriptive "patent-encumbered"
> then?

I don't really have a strong opinion on the naming here. Perhaps I
should really haved used 'main' and 'main2' as section names in the
proposal.

"patent-encumbered" sounds a bit clumsy to me. But so does "patented" OTOH.

-- 
Gruesse/greetings,
Reinhard Tartler, KeyID 945348A4


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Re: Bug#500176: This bug is still around and release-critical

[martin f krafft]

also sprach Mike Hommey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008.10.09.1024 +0200]:
> Another problem that is looking for a solution is programs such as apache
> or dnsmasq which binaries may be used by other software (gnome-user-share,
> virt-manager...) but shouldn't be running daemons in this case.
> It is especially a PITA when installing and using the daemon screws up your
> setup (happened to me with dnsmasq)

I don't think we should cater for broken software, where broken here
refers to the pair of (other software using *binaries*, that
software not factoring functionality into libraries).

-- 
 .''`.   martin f. krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
: :'  :  proud Debian developer, author, administrator, and user
`. `'`   http://people.debian.org/~madduck - http://debiansystem.info
  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems
 
"ist gott eine erfindung des teufels?"
 - friedrich nietzsche


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Description: Digital signature (see http://martin-krafft.net/gpg/)

Bug#501714: ITP: libthread-serialize-perl -- Serialize data-structures between threads

[Matt Zagrabelny]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Matt Zagrabelny <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


* Package name: libthread-serialize-perl
  Version : 0.10
  Upstream Author : Elizabeth Mattijsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL :
* 
http://search.cpan.org/~elizabeth/Thread-Serialize-0.10/lib/Thread/Serialize.pm
* License : Same terms as Perl
  Programming Lang: Perl
  Description : Serialize data-structures between threads

The Thread::Serialize module is a library for centralizing the routines
used to serialize data-structures between threads. Because of this
central location, other modules such as Thread::Conveyor, Thread::Pool
or Thread::Tie can benefit from the same optimilizations that may take
place here in the future.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: lenny/sid
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (990, 'unstable'), (500, 'testing'), (500, 'stable'), (1, 
'experimental')
Architecture: i386 (i686)



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Bug#501716: ITP: libload-perl -- Control when subroutines will be loaded

[Matt Zagrabelny]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Matt Zagrabelny <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


* Package name: libload-perl
  Version : 0.19
  Upstream Author : Elizabeth Mattijsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL :
* http://search.cpan.org/~elizabeth/load-0.19/lib/load.pm
* License : Same terms as Perl
  Programming Lang: Perl
  Description : Control when subroutines will be loaded

The "load" pragma allows a module developer to give the application
developer more options with regards to optimize for memory or CPU usage.
The "load" pragma gives more control on the moment when subroutines are
loaded and start taking up memory. This allows the application developer
to optimize for CPU usage (by loading all of a module at compile time
and thus reducing the amount of CPU used during the execution of an
application). Or allow the application developer to optimize for memory
usage, by loading subroutines only when they are actually needed,
thereby however increasing the amount of CPU needed during execution.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: lenny/sid
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (990, 'unstable'), (500, 'testing'), (500, 'stable'), (1, 
'experimental')
Architecture: i386 (i686)



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Bug#501717: ITP: libnet-mac-vendor-perl -- Look up the vendor for a MAC

[Matt Zagrabelny]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Matt Zagrabelny <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


* Package name: libnet-mac-vendor-perl
  Version : 1.18
  Upstream Author : brian d foy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL :
* http://search.cpan.org/~bdfoy/Net-MAC-Vendor-1.18/lib/Vendor.pm
* License : Same terms as Perl
  Programming Lang: Perl
  Description : Look up the vendor for a MAC

This module allows you to take a MAC address and turn it into the OUI
and vendor information.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: lenny/sid
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (990, 'unstable'), (500, 'testing'), (500, 'stable'), (1, 
'experimental')
Architecture: i386 (i686)



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Re: Bug#501717: ITP: libnet-mac-vendor-perl -- Look up the vendor for a MAC

[David Bremner]

Matt Zagrabelny wrote:
>Package: wnpp
>Severity: wishlist
>* Package name: libnet-mac-vendor-perl

Hi Matt;

I noticed you ITP'd 3 perl modules recently. Perhaps you would like to join
the debian perl team (http://alioth.debian.org/projects/pkg-perl/)
and maintain your modules there.  There are many helpful team members who 
can help you with packaging and uploading.

David


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Re: Bug#501717: ITP: libnet-mac-vendor-perl -- Look up the vendor for a MAC

[Franklin PIAT]

On Thu, 2008-10-09 at 14:54 -0500, Matt Zagrabelny wrote:
> * Package name: libnet-mac-vendor-perl
>   Description : Look up the vendor for a MAC

I'm currious on how many MAC-prefix to OUI we have in Debian...
 nmap:   /usr/share/nmap/nmap-mac-prefixes
 kismet: /etc/kismet/ap_manuf
 wireshark-common: /usr/share/wireshark/manuf
But there are probably lot more.

Franklin


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Bug#501733: ITP: ps3-utils -- Utilities for running Debian on a Sony Playstation 3

[sean finney]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: sean finney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

  Package name: ps3-utils
  Version : 2.2.0
  Upstream Author : Sony Computer Entertainment Inc.
  URL : 
http://riksun.riken.go.jp/pub/pub/Linux/kernel/people/geoff/cell/ps3-utils/
  License : GPL
  Programming Lang: C
  Description : Utilities for running Debian on a Sony Playstation 3

This package contains a number of useful and essential utilities needed for
running Debian GNU/Linux on a Playstation 3 console.


Note: previous packages (named 'ps3pf-utils') have been made by YAEGASHI
Takeshi, and possibly seperately in ubuntu, though neither of these have
found their way to main.

I've attempted to contact Takeshi but have not heard back.  There has
been some upstream movement beyond the versions of both these packages,
so it's yet to be determined whether the debian packages will be based off
of one of these previous works.  I'm also of course open to collaborative
efforts.


sean

- -- System Information:
Debian Release: lenny/sid
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable'), (500, 'testing'), (1, 'experimental')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)

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Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)

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5Ao1MyLqlQHDXeg9+IRHdc4=
=DTr/
-END PGP SIGNATURE-



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Bug#501734: lyricue -- The GNU Lyric Display System

[Nathan Handler]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
X-Debbugs-CC: debian-devel@lists.debian.org
Owner: Nathan Handler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Package Name: lyricue
Version: 1.9.8
Upstream Author: Chris Debenham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
URL: http://lds.sourceforge.net
License: GNU General Public License
Programming Language: Perl
Description: The GNU Lyric Display System

This application is used to edit/display song lyrics on a second
screen/projector for use at singing events such as church services.
Features
 * Spellchecking
 * User access controls
 * Networkable (ie run interface and server on different machines)
 * Multiple Playlists
 * Copyright info for songs
 * Automatic Page advance
 * Re-orderable playlist
 * Playlist entries to change background
 * All songs kept in a database and so screens are dynamically generated,
   allowing you to easily change the backdrop, font etc
without having
   to change all the songs
 * Can automatically create screens for bible verses
 * Quick searching for songs

Note: lyricue version 1.9.8 is currently present in Ubuntu Intrepid
Ibex (8.10) [1].

[1] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lyricue
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=m7lw
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Re: mpeg encoder patents, Was: Bug#501190: ITP: moonlight

[Ben Finney]

Robert Millan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Wed, Oct 08, 2008 at 04:30:09PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
> > [...].  I have absolutely no idea whether any
> > of the software that I package is affected by some patent.
> 
> You're putting all patents in the same bag, and it's not like that.

Agreed; I attempted to forestall this blurring of the lines,
apparently unsuccessfully.

> For example, if you distribute a windowing system, you're most
> likely violating lots of "crap patents" and can't tell which ones,
> but if you distribute LAME, you can be sure as hell you are
> infringing patents from Fraunhofer.

A more significant distinction is, as I've pointed out several times
already, that the Fraunhofer patents on MPEG audio algorithms *are
known to be actively enforced* by the holder against parties who
infringe those patents.

That's the distinction that seems to be the convention of ftp-master
for considering patent-encumbered packages too risky to redistribute
to recipients of Debian.

-- 
 \ “Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?” “Um, I think so, |
  `\Brainie, but why would anyone want to Pierce Brosnan?” —_Pinky |
_o__)   and The Brain_ |
Ben Finney


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Re: mpeg encoder patents, Was: Bug#501190: ITP: moonlight

[Russ Allbery]

Ben Finney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Robert Millan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> On Wed, Oct 08, 2008 at 04:30:09PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:

>>> [...].  I have absolutely no idea whether any
>>> of the software that I package is affected by some patent.

>> You're putting all patents in the same bag, and it's not like that.

> Agreed; I attempted to forestall this blurring of the lines,
> apparently unsuccessfully.

Neither of you seem to have understood my point at all, but since you both
seem to be vehemently agreeing with me, I'm not going to complain.  :)

-- 
Russ Allbery ([EMAIL PROTECTED])   


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Re: mpeg encoder patents, Was: Bug#501190: ITP: moonlight

[Reinhard Tartler]

Ben Finney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> A more significant distinction is, as I've pointed out several times
> already, that the Fraunhofer patents on MPEG audio algorithms *are
> known to be actively enforced* by the holder against parties who
> infringe those patents.

Please back up that claim!

All cases I know of in which patents are being enforced are not really
applicable to the debian case, because of reasons I've already written
down in the beginning of this thread.

It is really not constructive to bring this argument into the discussion
again and again without actually pointing to supporting evidence. Really.


-- 
Gruesse/greetings,
Reinhard Tartler, KeyID 945348A4


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Re: mpeg encoder patents, Was: Bug#501190: ITP: moonlight

[Ben Finney]

Reinhard Tartler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Ben Finney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > A more significant distinction is, as I've pointed out several
> > times already, that the Fraunhofer patents on MPEG audio
> > algorithms *are known to be actively enforced* by the holder
> > against parties who infringe those patents.
> 
> Please back up that claim!

I expect you're already aware, but just for reference:

Fraunhofer IIS-A sent letters to software developers on and around
1998-09-01 that stated, in part:

From your publications and your web-site we learn that you
distribute and/or sell decoders and/or encoders that use the MPEG
Layer-3 standard.

Our files do not show that you have a valid license agreement with
us. This means that the products infringe the patent rights of
Fraunhofer and THOMSON.

To make, sell and/or distribute products using the standard and
thus our patents, you need to obtain a license under these patents
from us.

http://www.chillingeffects.org/patent/notice.cgi?NoticeID=464>

> All cases I know of in which patents are being enforced are not
> really applicable to the debian case, because of reasons I've
> already written down in the beginning of this thread.

As I understand your reasons, you're saying that the recipients of
Debian who might want to “make, sell, and/or distribute” MPEG
Layer-3 encoders or decoders, using works from Debian, are in a
minority. Correct?

-- 
 \“I fly Air Bizarre. You buy a combination one-way round-trip |
  `\ticket. Leave any Monday, and they bring you back the previous |
_o__) Friday. That way you still have the weekend.” —Steven Wright |
Ben Finney


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Work-needing packages report for Oct 10, 2008

[wnpp]

The following is a listing of packages for which help has been requested
through the WNPP (Work-Needing and Prospective Packages) system in the
last week.

Total number of orphaned packages: 443 (new: 0)
Total number of packages offered up for adoption: 125 (new: 1)
Total number of packages requested help for: 49 (new: 0)

Please refer to http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/ for more information.



No new packages have been orphaned, but a total of 443 packages are
orphaned.  See http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/orphaned
for a complete list.



The following packages have been given up for adoption:

   cvsps (#501257), offered 4 days ago
 Description: Tool to generate CVS patch set information
 Reverse Depends: bzr-cvsps-import git-cvs
 Installations reported by Popcon: 1020

124 older packages have been omitted from this listing, see
http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/rfa_bypackage for a complete list.



For the following packages help is requested:

   apache2 (#470795), requested 210 days ago
 Description: Co-maintainer wanted
 Reverse Depends: achims-guestbook ampache apache2 apache2-dbg
   apache2-mpm-event apache2-mpm-itk apache2-mpm-prefork
   apache2-mpm-worker apache2-prefork-dev apache2-suexec (154 more
   omitted)
 Installations reported by Popcon: 39299

   ara (#450876), requested 333 days ago
 Description: utility for searching the Debian package database
 Installations reported by Popcon: 118

   athcool (#278442), requested 1444 days ago
 Description: Enable powersaving mode for Athlon/Duron processors
 Installations reported by Popcon: 236

   bash-completion (#472468), requested 199 days ago
 Description: programmable completion for the bash shell
 Installations reported by Popcon: 16813

   cvs (#354176), requested 959 days ago
 Description: Concurrent Versions System
 Reverse Depends: crossvc cvs-autoreleasedeb cvs-buildpackage cvs2cl
   cvs2html cvschangelogbuilder cvsconnect cvsd cvsdelta cvsps (12 more
   omitted)
 Installations reported by Popcon: 21850

   darcs (#486192), requested 117 days ago
 Description: an advanced revision control system
 Reverse Depends: arch2darcs darcs-buildpackage darcs-load-dirs
   darcs-monitor darcs-server darcsweb
 Installations reported by Popcon: 1366

   dctrl-tools (#448284), requested 348 days ago
 Description: Command-line tools to process Debian package
   information
 Reverse Depends: aptfs debian-goodies dlocate feta
   haskell-devscripts hg-buildpackage ia32-archive ia32-libs-tools
   mlmmj sbuild (1 more omitted)
 Installations reported by Popcon: 8864

   dpkg (#282283), requested 1419 days ago
 Description: dselect: a user tool to manage Debian packages
 Reverse Depends: alien alsa-source apt-build apt-cross apt-src
   backuppc build-essential bzr-builddeb cacao-oj6-dbg cacao-oj6-jdk
   (118 more omitted)
 Installations reported by Popcon: 77211

   drscheme (#402589), requested 668 days ago
 Description: PLT scheme programming environment
 Reverse Depends: drscheme minlog proofgeneral-minlog
 Installations reported by Popcon: 341

   elvis (#432298), requested 458 days ago
 Description: powerful clone of the vi/ex text editor (with X11
   support)
 Reverse Depends: elvis elvis-console elvis-tools
 Installations reported by Popcon: 381

   fglrx-driver (#454993), requested 306 days ago (non-free)
 Description: non-free AMD/ATI r5xx, r6xx display driver
 Reverse Depends: fglrx-amdcccle fglrx-atieventsd fglrx-control
   fglrx-driver fglrx-glx fglrx-glx-ia32 fglrx-kernel-src
 Installations reported by Popcon: 2127

   flightgear (#487388), requested 110 days ago
 Description: Flight Gear Flight Simulator
 Installations reported by Popcon: 930

   gentoo (#422498), requested 522 days ago
 Description: a fully GUI-configurable, two-pane X file manager
 Installations reported by Popcon: 273

   gnat-4.3 (#475374), requested 182 days ago
 Description: help needed to execute test cases
 Reverse Depends: adabrowse adacontrol asis-programs ghdl gnade-bin
   gnat gnat-4.3 gnat-gps libadasockets-dev libahven13 (45 more
   omitted)
 Installations reported by Popcon: 422

   gnat-gps (#496905), requested 42 days ago
 Description: co-maintainer needed
 Installations reported by Popcon: 124

   grub (#248397), requested 1613 days ago
 Description: GRand Unified Bootloader
 Reverse Depends: brdesktop-artwork-grub dfsbuild grub-choose-default
   grub-doc replicator startupmanager
 Installations reported by Popcon: 70841

   hotkey-setup (#483107), requested 135 days ago
 Description: auto-configures la

Re: Bug#501717: ITP: libnet-mac-vendor-perl -- Look up the vendor for a MAC

[Niko Tyni]

On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 10:38:30PM +0200, Franklin PIAT wrote:
> On Thu, 2008-10-09 at 14:54 -0500, Matt Zagrabelny wrote:
> > * Package name: libnet-mac-vendor-perl
> >   Description : Look up the vendor for a MAC
> 
> I'm currious on how many MAC-prefix to OUI we have in Debian...
>  nmap:   /usr/share/nmap/nmap-mac-prefixes
>  kismet: /etc/kismet/ap_manuf
>  wireshark-common: /usr/share/wireshark/manuf
> But there are probably lot more.

I know there's one compiled into ipv6calc. 

Furthermore, 'apt-file search oui' reveals at least these:

arp-scan: /usr/share/arp-scan/ieee-oui.txt
btscanner: /usr/share/btscanner/oui.txt
kdebase-data: /usr/share/apps/kcmview1394/oui.db
ntop: /etc/ntop/oui.txt
ocsinventory-reports: /usr/share/ocsinventory-server/ocsreports/files/oui.txt
swscanner: /etc/swscanner/oui_sws.txt
wireshark-dev: /usr/include/wireshark/epan/oui.h

-- 
Niko Tyni   [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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