Re: Policy restriction to depend on font packages

[Christian Perrier]

Quoting Eugene V. Lyubimkin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):

> Should I mass-file the bugs or this situation can be resolved through
> different approach?


While you're technically right, apparently, I think that this issue
should be solved by a discussion to either adapt the policy wrt
current practice (font servers are rather odd in these days of
mobility) or delay the solution to this after the release.

The point is basically: we perfectly live with this "problem" for
years, so do we really want to delay the release by adding 93 RC bugs
for something that is basically cosmetic while we have a pile of RC
bugs that aren't cosmetic and are already delaying the release?

I'd vote the eventually discuss the issue now (adapt the policy or
make this a release goal for lenny+1) but agree to not make it a
blocker for lenny.



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Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?

[Pasi Kärkkäinen]

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 01:54:50AM +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 05:22:55PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> 
> > Hopefully Jeremy Fitzhardinge (from Xensource) and others can get the
> > important Xen kernel features ported to pv_ops framework and integrated 
> > into vanilla linus kernels soon.. 
> > 
> > Status/todo:
> > http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps
> >

This xensource wiki page was just updated to contain up-to-date status,
ie. features present in 2.6.26 and features submitted for 2.6.27.

 
> > Redhat/Fedora pv_ops Xen kernel dom0 support status:
> > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XenPvopsDom0
> 
> SLES 11 will include Linux 2.6.26 with Xen patches - packages should be
> available any day now from
> .  Is it
> possible that those patches will be usable in lenny, as I believe the
> kernel team expects to release with Linux 2.6.26?
> 

Interesting.. do you know if they have dom0 support etc included? based on
pv_ops?

-- Pasi


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Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?

[William Pitcock]

On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 11:12 +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 01:54:50AM +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote:
> > On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 05:22:55PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> > 
> > > Hopefully Jeremy Fitzhardinge (from Xensource) and others can get the
> > > important Xen kernel features ported to pv_ops framework and integrated 
> > > into vanilla linus kernels soon.. 
> > > 
> > > Status/todo:
> > > http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps
> > >
> 
> This xensource wiki page was just updated to contain up-to-date status,
> ie. features present in 2.6.26 and features submitted for 2.6.27.
> 
>  
> > > Redhat/Fedora pv_ops Xen kernel dom0 support status:
> > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XenPvopsDom0
> > 
> > SLES 11 will include Linux 2.6.26 with Xen patches - packages should be
> > available any day now from
> > .  Is it
> > possible that those patches will be usable in lenny, as I believe the
> > kernel team expects to release with Linux 2.6.26?
> > 
> 
> Interesting.. do you know if they have dom0 support etc included? based on
> pv_ops?

They include dom0 and are not based on paravirt_ops AFAIK.

William


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Bug#491060: ITP: python-ptrace -- Python bindings for ptrace

[Pierre Chifflier]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Pierre Chifflier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: python-ptrace
  Version : 0.3.1
  Upstream Author : Victor Stinner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://fusil.hachoir.org/trac/wiki/Ptrace
* License : GPLv2
  Programming Lang: Python
  Description : Python bindings for ptrace

This package provides Python bindings for the ptrace library. It allows
to control, debug, or modify processes using the ptrace syscall.

Features:

 * High level Python object API
 * Able to control multiple processes: catch fork events
 * Read/write bytes to arbitrary addresses
 * Execution step by step using ptrace_singlestep() or hardware int 3
 * Can use distorm disassembler
 * Dump registers, memory mappings, stack, etc.
 * Syscall tracer and parser (strace command)


-- System Information:
Debian Release: lenny/sid
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable'), (1, 'experimental')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)

Kernel: Linux 2.6.25-2-amd64 (SMP w/1 CPU core)
Locale: LANG=fr_FR.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=fr_FR.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash



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Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?

[William Pitcock]

Hi,

On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 11:42 +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> 
> I guess it was faster _now_, but they'll have to live with the forward
> porting pain for years more now..

While this is true, the patches still allow for Debian to ship Lenny
without a feature regression in Xen support.

William


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Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?

[Bernd Zeimetz]

Gunnar Wolf wrote:
>> The problem also appears for vserver kernel.
> 
> It is currently in Sid [1], and it has been for some time already. It
> seems it will very soon reach Lenny [2] (In case status changes by the
> moment you check it: linux-2.6 is going in today (thanks to manual
> hinting by luk) )
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> [1] 
> http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=linux-image-2.6.25-2-vserver-amd64

Where does this patch come from? I can't find anything about it on
http://linux-vserver.org

-- 
 Bernd Zeimetz   Debian GNU/Linux Developer
 GPG Fingerprint: 06C8 C9A2 EAAD E37E 5B2C BE93 067A AD04 C93B FF79


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Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?

[Pasi Kärkkäinen]

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 03:40:38AM -0500, William Pitcock wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 11:12 +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 01:54:50AM +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote:
> > > On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 05:22:55PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Hopefully Jeremy Fitzhardinge (from Xensource) and others can get the
> > > > important Xen kernel features ported to pv_ops framework and integrated 
> > > > into vanilla linus kernels soon.. 
> > > > 
> > > > Status/todo:
> > > > http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps
> > > >
> > 
> > This xensource wiki page was just updated to contain up-to-date status,
> > ie. features present in 2.6.26 and features submitted for 2.6.27.
> > 
> >  
> > > > Redhat/Fedora pv_ops Xen kernel dom0 support status:
> > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XenPvopsDom0
> > > 
> > > SLES 11 will include Linux 2.6.26 with Xen patches - packages should be
> > > available any day now from
> > > .  Is it
> > > possible that those patches will be usable in lenny, as I believe the
> > > kernel team expects to release with Linux 2.6.26?
> > > 
> > 
> > Interesting.. do you know if they have dom0 support etc included? based on
> > pv_ops?
> 
> They include dom0 and are not based on paravirt_ops AFAIK.
> 

Argh.. even more forward porting from xensource 2.6.18 tree instead of
porting to pv_ops and getting the pathes integrated upstream to vanilla
kernel :(

I guess it was faster _now_, but they'll have to live with the forward
porting pain for years more now..

-- Pasi


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Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?

[Pasi Kärkkäinen]

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 03:51:12AM -0500, William Pitcock wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 11:42 +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> > 
> > I guess it was faster _now_, but they'll have to live with the forward
> > porting pain for years more now..
> 
> While this is true, the patches still allow for Debian to ship Lenny
> without a feature regression in Xen support.
> 

Well that's true.. 

-- Pasi


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Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?

[maximilian attems]

On Wed, 16 Jul 2008, Ben Hutchings wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 05:22:55PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> 
> > Hopefully Jeremy Fitzhardinge (from Xensource) and others can get the
> > important Xen kernel features ported to pv_ops framework and integrated 
> > into vanilla linus kernels soon.. 
> > 
> > Status/todo:
> > http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps
> > 
> > Redhat/Fedora pv_ops Xen kernel dom0 support status:
> > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XenPvopsDom0
> 
> SLES 11 will include Linux 2.6.26 with Xen patches - packages should be
> available any day now from
> .  Is it
> possible that those patches will be usable in lenny, as I believe the
> kernel team expects to release with Linux 2.6.26?

dom0 looks currently out of reach,
what we have is the snapshotting features of 2.6.27 for x86_32.

see relevant posts of Ian Campbell on d-kernel


-- 
maks


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Include on first iso: m-a, build essential, kernel headers

[richs]

I would like to ask why essential packages are not included on the first Debian 
download cd/iso. I use Nvidia and Atheros wireless, but the packages 
module-assistant, build essential, kernel headers, wireless-tools etc, are 
needed for most other graphic, network driver and firmware installations. They 
are free, do not take up space, but without them (on a wireless only computer) 
you hit a vicious circle; Needing internet to be able to get internet.

I have backups (via aptoncd) for all of the aforementioned tools and 
dependencies for Etch, Lenny and Sid. However, I ythink that their inclusion is 
far more important than, say... renaming Firefox or including Mono in the gnome 
desktop.

Maybe somebody could explain why they aren't included from the get-go.

Thanks

Richs


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Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?

[Pasi Kärkkäinen]

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:50:22AM +0200, maximilian attems wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Jul 2008, Ben Hutchings wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 05:22:55PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> > 
> > > Hopefully Jeremy Fitzhardinge (from Xensource) and others can get the
> > > important Xen kernel features ported to pv_ops framework and integrated 
> > > into vanilla linus kernels soon.. 
> > > 
> > > Status/todo:
> > > http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps
> > > 
> > > Redhat/Fedora pv_ops Xen kernel dom0 support status:
> > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XenPvopsDom0
> > 
> > SLES 11 will include Linux 2.6.26 with Xen patches - packages should be
> > available any day now from
> > .  Is it
> > possible that those patches will be usable in lenny, as I believe the
> > kernel team expects to release with Linux 2.6.26?
> 
> dom0 looks currently out of reach,
> what we have is the snapshotting features of 2.6.27 for x86_32.
> 

Hmm.. what do you mean with "out of reach" ? pv_ops dom0 is not yet
ready/working, but those SLES 11 patches have the xensource (2.6.18 forward
port) of dom0 and all the other xen kernel features for 2.6.26.. 

> see relevant posts of Ian Campbell on d-kernel
> 

You mean this?: http://lists.debian.org/debian-kernel/2008/07/msg00070.html

I think the situation has changed after that.. 

See: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps

I think x86-64 xen patches are going in for 2.6.27.. 

http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/x86/linux-2.6-tip.git;a=summary

"9 hours agoIngo Molnar Merge branch 'xen-64bit'"

-- Pasi


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Re: Policy restriction to depend on font packages

[Eugene V. Lyubimkin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Christian Perrier wrote:
> Quoting Eugene V. Lyubimkin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> 
>> Should I mass-file the bugs or this situation can be resolved through
>> different approach?
> 
> 
> While you're technically right, apparently, I think that this issue
> should be solved by a discussion to either adapt the policy wrt
> current practice (font servers are rather odd in these days of
> mobility) or delay the solution to this after the release.
> 
> The point is basically: we perfectly live with this "problem" for
> years, so do we really want to delay the release by adding 93 RC bugs
> for something that is basically cosmetic while we have a pile of RC
> bugs that aren't cosmetic and are already delaying the release?
I think that of course, no. I don't want to delay Lenny release in any way.

Julien Cristau has mentioned that policy 11.8.5 talks about only
server-side packages and not TrueType (and some others?). In this case
there is no problem at all and I can only suggest to add a note to
policy to specify this more explicitly.

Sorry for noise.

- --
Regards,
Eugene V. Lyubimkin
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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=OlDz
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Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?

[maximilian attems]

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 12:51:21PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:50:22AM +0200, maximilian attems wrote:
> > On Wed, 16 Jul 2008, Ben Hutchings wrote:
> > 
> > > On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 05:22:55PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Hopefully Jeremy Fitzhardinge (from Xensource) and others can get the
> > > > important Xen kernel features ported to pv_ops framework and integrated 
> > > > into vanilla linus kernels soon.. 
> > > > 
> > > > Status/todo:
> > > > http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps
> > > > 
> > > > Redhat/Fedora pv_ops Xen kernel dom0 support status:
> > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XenPvopsDom0
> > > 
> > > SLES 11 will include Linux 2.6.26 with Xen patches - packages should be
> > > available any day now from
> > > .  Is it
> > > possible that those patches will be usable in lenny, as I believe the
> > > kernel team expects to release with Linux 2.6.26?
> > 
> > dom0 looks currently out of reach,
> > what we have is the snapshotting features of 2.6.27 for x86_32.
> > 
> 
> Hmm.. what do you mean with "out of reach" ? pv_ops dom0 is not yet
> ready/working, but those SLES 11 patches have the xensource (2.6.18 forward
> port) of dom0 and all the other xen kernel features for 2.6.26.. 

sorry but no please read
http://wiki.debian.org/DebianKernelPatchAcceptanceGuidelines

pv_ops is the upstream way we enabled them in 2.6.25 and
enhance the existing 2.6.26 base.
what are you moaning?
 
> > see relevant posts of Ian Campbell on d-kernel
> > 
> 
> You mean this?: http://lists.debian.org/debian-kernel/2008/07/msg00070.html
> 
> I think the situation has changed after that.. 
> 
> See: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps
> 
> I think x86-64 xen patches are going in for 2.6.27.. 
> 
> http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/x86/linux-2.6-tip.git;a=summary
> 
> "9 hours ago  Ingo Molnar Merge branch 'xen-64bit'"

right but you seem to have zero idea about the x86 upstream git
tree and it's dependencies. the merge of that is out of question
for the upcoming stable kernel.

-- 
maks


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Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?

[Ian Campbell]

On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 12:51 +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:50:22AM +0200, maximilian attems wrote:
> > see relevant posts of Ian Campbell on d-kernel
> > 
> 
> You mean this?: http://lists.debian.org/debian-kernel/2008/07/msg00070.html
> 
> I think the situation has changed after that.. 

The save/restore and ballooning patches were applied to the trunk 2.6.26
Debian kernel a few days back, enabling these features for 32 bit
kernels.

> 
> See: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps
> 
> I think x86-64 xen patches are going in for 2.6.27.. 
> 
> http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/x86/linux-2.6-tip.git;a=summary
> 
> "9 hours ago  Ingo Molnar Merge branch 'xen-64bit'"

Lenny will be releasing with (at most) 2.6.26 and these patches are a
bit too large and intrusive to non-Xen code paths to be backported.

Ian.
-- 
Ian Campbell
Current Noise: Orange Goblin - Land Of Secret Dreams

Speak softly and own a big, mean Doberman.
-- Dave Millman


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Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?

[Pasi Kärkkäinen]

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 12:35:09PM +0200, maximilian attems wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 12:51:21PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:50:22AM +0200, maximilian attems wrote:
> > > On Wed, 16 Jul 2008, Ben Hutchings wrote:
> > > 
> > > > On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 05:22:55PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > Hopefully Jeremy Fitzhardinge (from Xensource) and others can get the
> > > > > important Xen kernel features ported to pv_ops framework and 
> > > > > integrated 
> > > > > into vanilla linus kernels soon.. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Status/todo:
> > > > > http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps
> > > > > 
> > > > > Redhat/Fedora pv_ops Xen kernel dom0 support status:
> > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XenPvopsDom0
> > > > 
> > > > SLES 11 will include Linux 2.6.26 with Xen patches - packages should be
> > > > available any day now from
> > > > .  Is it
> > > > possible that those patches will be usable in lenny, as I believe the
> > > > kernel team expects to release with Linux 2.6.26?
> > > 
> > > dom0 looks currently out of reach,
> > > what we have is the snapshotting features of 2.6.27 for x86_32.
> > > 
> > 
> > Hmm.. what do you mean with "out of reach" ? pv_ops dom0 is not yet
> > ready/working, but those SLES 11 patches have the xensource (2.6.18 forward
> > port) of dom0 and all the other xen kernel features for 2.6.26.. 
> 
> sorry but no please read
> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianKernelPatchAcceptanceGuidelines
> 
> pv_ops is the upstream way we enabled them in 2.6.25 and
> enhance the existing 2.6.26 base.
> what are you moaning?
>

This thread was started to discuss possible ways to get xen dom0 support
into lenny.. this SLES11 patch thingie was one option. 

But I guess it's not possible solution. 
  
> > > see relevant posts of Ian Campbell on d-kernel
> > > 
> > 
> > You mean this?: http://lists.debian.org/debian-kernel/2008/07/msg00070.html
> > 
> > I think the situation has changed after that.. 
> > 
> > See: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps
> > 
> > I think x86-64 xen patches are going in for 2.6.27.. 
> > 
> > http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/x86/linux-2.6-tip.git;a=summary
> > 
> > "9 hours agoIngo Molnar Merge branch 'xen-64bit'"
> 
> right but you seem to have zero idea about the x86 upstream git
> tree and it's dependencies. the merge of that is out of question
> for the upcoming stable kernel.
> 

I only meant that those patches are queued for 2.6.27. 

-- Pasi


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Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?

[Pasi Kärkkäinen]

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:57:26AM +0100, Ian Campbell wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 12:51 +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:50:22AM +0200, maximilian attems wrote:
> > > see relevant posts of Ian Campbell on d-kernel
> > > 
> > 
> > You mean this?: http://lists.debian.org/debian-kernel/2008/07/msg00070.html
> > 
> > I think the situation has changed after that.. 
> 
> The save/restore and ballooning patches were applied to the trunk 2.6.26
> Debian kernel a few days back, enabling these features for 32 bit
> kernels.
> 

Yep.

> > 
> > See: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps
> > 
> > I think x86-64 xen patches are going in for 2.6.27.. 
> > 
> > http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/x86/linux-2.6-tip.git;a=summary
> > 
> > "9 hours agoIngo Molnar Merge branch 'xen-64bit'"
> 
> Lenny will be releasing with (at most) 2.6.26 and these patches are a
> bit too large and intrusive to non-Xen code paths to be backported.
> 

Yeah, I only meant those patches are queued for upstream 2.6.27. I didn't
mean they should be applied to debian xen kernel for lenny.

Like said, this thread was started to discuss about possible options of
getting xen dom0 support into lenny, and I pasted that git link to give a
status update of pv_ops work happening atm.

-- Pasi


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Re: font policy changes

[Josselin Mouette]

Le dimanche 13 juillet 2008 à 21:16 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] a
écrit :
> 4) What are the preferred steps for registering a TrueType font in
> Debian?  It is outside the X11 directory structure, and depends on the
> TrueType font server.  GNOME recognizes a newly installed TrueType font
> but is there anything that should appear in a postinst or postrm script?

The font caches should be automatically updated as soon as you are
registering fonts with defoma. If you are not using defoma, you need to
run fc-cache by hand in the postinst.

Cheers,
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Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?

[maximilian attems]

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 02:23:26PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> Like said, this thread was started to discuss about possible options of
> getting xen dom0 support into lenny, and I pasted that git link to give a
> status update of pv_ops work happening atm.
 
current best guess is lenny+half.

having seen the lessons of etch+half and with the established procedure
we should start sooner. 4 upstream version after the release as goal.
that would be 2.6.30 if naming stays the same. most probably this
would have much wider xen support including dom0.

there still exists the unofficial waldi's dom0 2.6.18 latest xen branch
based kernels.

-- 
maks


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Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?

[Pasi Kärkkäinen]

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 02:23:26PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:57:26AM +0100, Ian Campbell wrote:
> > On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 12:51 +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> > > On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:50:22AM +0200, maximilian attems wrote:
> > > > see relevant posts of Ian Campbell on d-kernel
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > You mean this?: 
> > > http://lists.debian.org/debian-kernel/2008/07/msg00070.html
> > > 
> > > I think the situation has changed after that.. 
> > 
> > The save/restore and ballooning patches were applied to the trunk 2.6.26
> > Debian kernel a few days back, enabling these features for 32 bit
> > kernels.
> > 
> 
> Yep.
> 
> > > 
> > > See: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps
> > > 
> > > I think x86-64 xen patches are going in for 2.6.27.. 
> > > 
> > > http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/x86/linux-2.6-tip.git;a=summary
> > > 
> > > "9 hours ago  Ingo Molnar Merge branch 'xen-64bit'"
> > 
> > Lenny will be releasing with (at most) 2.6.26 and these patches are a
> > bit too large and intrusive to non-Xen code paths to be backported.
> > 
> 
> Yeah, I only meant those patches are queued for upstream 2.6.27. I didn't
> mean they should be applied to debian xen kernel for lenny.
> 
> Like said, this thread was started to discuss about possible options of
> getting xen dom0 support into lenny, and I pasted that git link to give a
> status update of pv_ops work happening atm.
> 

Lenny will ship with a much worse Xen support than etch.. which sucks. 

Lenny will not support 64bit, no dom0.. so basicly lenny can only be used as
a 32bit domU .. unless people build/get some other dom0 kernel. 

Obviously this is not debian's fault, and that's why we have this discussion
now.. trying to see if there are any options of fixing the situation.

(this thread was started on debian-xen list btw.. at some point it has
falled off from CC list though)

-- Pasi


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Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?

[William Pitcock]

On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 12:35 +0200, maximilian attems wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 12:51:21PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:50:22AM +0200, maximilian attems wrote:
> > > On Wed, 16 Jul 2008, Ben Hutchings wrote:
> > > 
> > > > On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 05:22:55PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > Hopefully Jeremy Fitzhardinge (from Xensource) and others can get the
> > > > > important Xen kernel features ported to pv_ops framework and 
> > > > > integrated 
> > > > > into vanilla linus kernels soon.. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Status/todo:
> > > > > http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps
> > > > > 
> > > > > Redhat/Fedora pv_ops Xen kernel dom0 support status:
> > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XenPvopsDom0
> > > > 
> > > > SLES 11 will include Linux 2.6.26 with Xen patches - packages should be
> > > > available any day now from
> > > > .  Is it
> > > > possible that those patches will be usable in lenny, as I believe the
> > > > kernel team expects to release with Linux 2.6.26?
> > > 
> > > dom0 looks currently out of reach,
> > > what we have is the snapshotting features of 2.6.27 for x86_32.
> > > 
> > 
> > Hmm.. what do you mean with "out of reach" ? pv_ops dom0 is not yet
> > ready/working, but those SLES 11 patches have the xensource (2.6.18 forward
> > port) of dom0 and all the other xen kernel features for 2.6.26.. 
> 
> sorry but no please read
> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianKernelPatchAcceptanceGuidelines
> 
> pv_ops is the upstream way we enabled them in 2.6.25 and
> enhance the existing 2.6.26 base.
> what are you moaning?

Without dom0, lenny will be unusable for several installations of mine
which presently run an ugly combination of etch's dom0 and lenny's
kernel. I would like to do that in a different way.

If we will not see dom0 in linux-2.6 on Debian, we should at least have
a 2.6.18 tree with dom0.

William


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Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?

[William Pitcock]

On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 14:11 +0200, maximilian attems wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 07:11:06AM -0500, William Pitcock wrote:
> > 
> > Without dom0, lenny will be unusable for several installations of mine
> > which presently run an ugly combination of etch's dom0 and lenny's
> > kernel. I would like to do that in a different way.
> > 
> > If we will not see dom0 in linux-2.6 on Debian, we should at least have
> > a 2.6.18 tree with dom0.
> 
> no.
> we will not have 2 different linux-2.6 versions in Lenny.
> please think of the implications before throwing out suggestions.
> 

What about the implications of introducing feature regressions? The
patches to enable dom0 without pv-ops are available, yet they are
unwanted.

Wouldn't it be possible to build with both pv-ops and non-pv-ops for
dom0?

At any rate, please make it well documented where waldi's kernels are if
you intend to not have dom0 in 2.6.26.

William


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Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?

[maximilian attems]

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 07:11:06AM -0500, William Pitcock wrote:
> 
> Without dom0, lenny will be unusable for several installations of mine
> which presently run an ugly combination of etch's dom0 and lenny's
> kernel. I would like to do that in a different way.
> 
> If we will not see dom0 in linux-2.6 on Debian, we should at least have
> a 2.6.18 tree with dom0.

no.
we will not have 2 different linux-2.6 versions in Lenny.
please think of the implications before throwing out suggestions.

-- 
maks


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Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?

[Pasi Kärkkäinen]

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 07:11:06AM -0500, William Pitcock wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 12:35 +0200, maximilian attems wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 12:51:21PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> > > On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:50:22AM +0200, maximilian attems wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 16 Jul 2008, Ben Hutchings wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 05:22:55PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Hopefully Jeremy Fitzhardinge (from Xensource) and others can get 
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > important Xen kernel features ported to pv_ops framework and 
> > > > > > integrated 
> > > > > > into vanilla linus kernels soon.. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Status/todo:
> > > > > > http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Redhat/Fedora pv_ops Xen kernel dom0 support status:
> > > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XenPvopsDom0
> > > > > 
> > > > > SLES 11 will include Linux 2.6.26 with Xen patches - packages should 
> > > > > be
> > > > > available any day now from
> > > > > .  Is 
> > > > > it
> > > > > possible that those patches will be usable in lenny, as I believe the
> > > > > kernel team expects to release with Linux 2.6.26?
> > > > 
> > > > dom0 looks currently out of reach,
> > > > what we have is the snapshotting features of 2.6.27 for x86_32.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > Hmm.. what do you mean with "out of reach" ? pv_ops dom0 is not yet
> > > ready/working, but those SLES 11 patches have the xensource (2.6.18 
> > > forward
> > > port) of dom0 and all the other xen kernel features for 2.6.26.. 
> > 
> > sorry but no please read
> > http://wiki.debian.org/DebianKernelPatchAcceptanceGuidelines
> > 
> > pv_ops is the upstream way we enabled them in 2.6.25 and
> > enhance the existing 2.6.26 base.
> > what are you moaning?
> 
> Without dom0, lenny will be unusable for several installations of mine
> which presently run an ugly combination of etch's dom0 and lenny's
> kernel. I would like to do that in a different way.
> 
> If we will not see dom0 in linux-2.6 on Debian, we should at least have
> a 2.6.18 tree with dom0.
> 

For comparison Fedora people decided to release F9 with only domU support
included.. they didn't want to do anymore forward porting from xensource
2.6.18 xen kernels (I bet noone wants to do that) and decided to include
pv_ops based upstream kernel. And they wanted to have same versions of 
both the normal (baremetal) kernel and kernel-xen.  

but they patched 64bit xen pv_ops domU support in. So F9 supports both 32b 
and 64b pv_ops domU. F9 has 2.6.25 kernel. 

Fedora is planning to add dom0 support back to their kernel when pv_ops
based dom0 is functional.. It's not yet certain if it will be ready for
their next release (F10).

Fedora people didn't want to include separate (2.6.18) xen dom0 kernel..
because it would have created too many problems with other tools/packages
requiring features/APIs/ABIs from the kernel.. too big difference between
2.6.18 (xensource) and 2.6.25+ (vanilla/upstream linux). 

So yeah, just to wrap up their thoughts. 
 
-- Pasi


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Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?

[Gunnar Wolf]

Goswin von Brederlow dijo [Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 11:10:30PM +0200]:
> > I don't think that any of the alternatives are valid candidates yet:
> > - Linux-Vserver, OpenVZ: clearly not the same use case.
> > - Virtualbox, qemu: poor performance under some workloads.
> 
> Unusable for production work. Emulation is just too slow. The group of
> people that can live with that much slow down compared to xen is
> miniscule.

Just to state the obvious: I understand your lines applie to
virtualbox and qemu, not to linux-vserver, which is completely usable
for production work - although it's a completely different approach,
completely useless to people who really want seemingly independent
full machines (i.e. different OSs or kernel features). 

> > - KVM: is very promising but is it really a valid alternative *now*
> >   for current Xen users?
> 
> KVM needs hardware support and even then its I/O is slower. It also
> deadlocks the I/O under I/O load from time to time.
> 
> I could live with the I/O slowdown but nothing will make hardware
> magically appear.

Please explain further on this. Do you mean that xen can run
paravirtualized hosts without the hardware features (i.e. the lesser
CPUs sold nowadays) while kvm does require VMX/SVM?

I have not done extensive testing yet (I'm a newbie to both
approaches), but I don't feel the slowdown you mention when under kvm.

Greetings,

-- 
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PGP key 1024D/8BB527AF 2001-10-23
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Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?

[Pasi Kärkkäinen]

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 02:11:48PM +0200, maximilian attems wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 07:11:06AM -0500, William Pitcock wrote:
> > 
> > Without dom0, lenny will be unusable for several installations of mine
> > which presently run an ugly combination of etch's dom0 and lenny's
> > kernel. I would like to do that in a different way.
> > 
> > If we will not see dom0 in linux-2.6 on Debian, we should at least have
> > a 2.6.18 tree with dom0.
> 
> no.
> we will not have 2 different linux-2.6 versions in Lenny.
> please think of the implications before throwing out suggestions.
> 

So basicly Debian takes the same route as Fedora did (see my other mail
about it).

It's understandable from the distribution/kernel maintencance point of view. 

But it's really sucky for the users.. This needs good documentation in the
release notes etc.. so people realize lenny won't support Xen virtualization
anymore (running virtual machines on lenny host).

-- Pasi


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Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?

[Goswin von Brederlow]

Gunnar Wolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Goswin von Brederlow dijo [Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 11:10:30PM +0200]:
>> > I don't think that any of the alternatives are valid candidates yet:
>> > - Linux-Vserver, OpenVZ: clearly not the same use case.
>> > - Virtualbox, qemu: poor performance under some workloads.
>> 
>> Unusable for production work. Emulation is just too slow. The group of
>> people that can live with that much slow down compared to xen is
>> miniscule.
>
> Just to state the obvious: I understand your lines applie to
> virtualbox and qemu, not to linux-vserver, which is completely usable
> for production work - although it's a completely different approach,
> completely useless to people who really want seemingly independent
> full machines (i.e. different OSs or kernel features). 

yes, obviously. :)

>> > - KVM: is very promising but is it really a valid alternative *now*
>> >   for current Xen users?
>> 
>> KVM needs hardware support and even then its I/O is slower. It also
>> deadlocks the I/O under I/O load from time to time.
>> 
>> I could live with the I/O slowdown but nothing will make hardware
>> magically appear.
>
> Please explain further on this. Do you mean that xen can run
> paravirtualized hosts without the hardware features (i.e. the lesser
> CPUs sold nowadays) while kvm does require VMX/SVM?

Yes, xen with paravirtualized hosts runs on cpus without hardware
virtualization.

> I have not done extensive testing yet (I'm a newbie to both
> approaches), but I don't feel the slowdown you mention when under kvm.

The "normal" kvm io uses the qemu device emulation and is dead slow
and unsecure. As such it is pretty much out of the question for
production work.

But kvm can also use the virtio drivers that raise the network speed
to slightly over 40MB/s. Disk speed is slower but that might just be
my laptops disk.

Now with xen on the other hand I get up to 180MB/s throughput on the
network interface.

> Greetings,

MfG
Goswin


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Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?

[Samuel Thibault]

Gunnar Wolf, le Wed 16 Jul 2008 07:42:37 -0500, a écrit :
> > I could live with the I/O slowdown but nothing will make hardware
> > magically appear.
> 
> Please explain further on this. Do you mean that xen can run
> paravirtualized hosts without the hardware features (i.e. the lesser
> CPUs sold nowadays) while kvm does require VMX/SVM?

Precisely.

Samuel


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Re: sysklogd/rsyslog switch

[Jonas Meurer]

On 15/07/2008 Joerg Jaspert wrote:
> I just did the requested switch, sysklogd/klogd are now priority extra,
> rsyslog (not its -mysql -pgsql packages) are now priority important.
> 
> If something else, like Tasks or so, needs to be changed too: Whoever
> needs to do that please do it. Thanks.

thanks a lot, that's great news :-)

I added the information to http://wiki.debian.org/NewInLenny, but I
believe that this switch should be documented in the release notes as
well, shouldn't it? What's the proper way for that? A bugreport against
'release-notes'? Is the draft for lenny release notes already available
somewhere?

greetings,
 jonas


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RE: font policy changes

[unifoundry]

>  Original Message 
> Subject: Re: font policy changes
> From: Josselin Mouette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Wed, July 16, 2008 4:20 am
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: debian-devel@lists.debian.org, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> The font caches should be automatically updated as soon as you are
> registering fonts with defoma. If you are not using defoma, you need to
> run fc-cache by hand in the postinst.
> 
> Cheers,

Thank you.  I can write a proposed addition to the Policy Manual for
TrueType fonts after I'm done with the current package unless someone
else wants to do it.  The "update-fonts-dir" utility currently only
handles fonts in the X11 tree (not TrueType), and even then the new X11
font directory options to look under /usr/share/fonts/X11/ ("-7" and
"--x11r7-layout") don't work on my stable release (Etch 4.0r3).


Paul Hardy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: font policy changes

[Julien Cristau]

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 08:37:12 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Thank you.  I can write a proposed addition to the Policy Manual for
> TrueType fonts after I'm done with the current package unless someone
> else wants to do it.  The "update-fonts-dir" utility currently only
> handles fonts in the X11 tree (not TrueType), and even then the new X11
> font directory options to look under /usr/share/fonts/X11/ ("-7" and
> "--x11r7-layout") don't work on my stable release (Etch 4.0r3).
> 
These options are no-ops.  What do you mean by "don't work"?
Also please stop breaking the thread.

Cheers,
Julien


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Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?

[Teodor]

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 2:49 PM, Pasi Kärkkäinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > > See: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps
>> > > I think x86-64 xen patches are going in for 2.6.27..
>
> Lenny will not support 64bit, no dom0.. so basicly lenny can only be used as
> a 32bit domU .. unless people build/get some other dom0 kernel.

What about the patches for x86-64 support in domU? If these are going
to be included in 2.6.27 does it mean they qualify [1] to be included
in the kernel for lenny?

Thanks


[1]  http://wiki.debian.org/DebianKernelPatchAcceptanceGuidelines

Re: Include on first iso: m-a, build essential, kernel headers

[Leo 'costela' Antunes]

Hi,

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> They are free, do not take up space, but
> without them (on a wireless only computer) you hit a vicious circle;
> Needing internet to be able to get internet.

Avoiding the free vs. non-free firmware issue, most of these packages
are available on Debian CDs/DVDs, just perhaps not on the first
installation media. The choice of which software to put on the first CD
is a correlation between software importance and target audience size,
so it's not so easy to determine.

If I understand your problem correctly, the packages you need
(atl2-modules) aren't even available in Etch, so you're probably talking
about Lenny CDs, right? If not, I guess this might be a problem.

If what you mean is madwifi-source, then the problem is the non-free
status, which means we simply can't distribute it on CDs.

If the package you need isn't a victim of any of the above mentioned
problems, you can find the CDs which contain it here[0].

> I have backups (via aptoncd) for all of the aforementioned tools and 
> dependencies for Etch, Lenny and Sid. However, I ythink that their
> inclusion is far more important than, say... renaming Firefox or
> including Mono in the gnome desktop.

Mono is not included in the first CD, just as the tools you need.
The renaming of Firefox is not a matter of taste (as could be argued
about the order of packages on CDs), and had to be done because of the
reasons explained here[1] (lots of mail-list archive reading...).
So neither of those are arguments have any relevance to the matter at hand.

Cheers

[0] http://atterer.net/jigdo/jigdo-search.php
[1] http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2004/12/msg00328.html

-- 
Leo "costela" Antunes
[insert a witty retort here]



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Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?

[maximilian attems]

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 07:53:52PM +0300, Teodor wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 2:49 PM, Pasi Kärkkäinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> > > See: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps
> >> > > I think x86-64 xen patches are going in for 2.6.27..
> >
> > Lenny will not support 64bit, no dom0.. so basicly lenny can only be used as
> > a 32bit domU .. unless people build/get some other dom0 kernel.
> 
> What about the patches for x86-64 support in domU? If these are going
> to be included in 2.6.27 does it mean they qualify [1] to be included
> in the kernel for lenny?

no.
please read a thread before posting to it, that question is already
answered twice.

-- 
maks


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Bug#491103: ITP: bzr-stats -- Statistics plugin for Bazaar

[Jelmer Vernooij]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Jelmer Vernooij <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

* Package name: bzr-stats
  Version : 0.0.1
  Upstream Author : John Arbash Meinel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Jelmer Vernooij <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://launchpad.net/bzr-stats
* License : GPL
  Programming Lang: Python
  Description : Statistics plugin for Bazaar

This is a plugin for Bazaar that can show what people have contributed
to a branch. It can also sort report their contributions by type (based on the
file types) or show the type of growth a branch has seen.

- -- System Information:
Debian Release: lenny/sid
  APT prefers gutsy
  APT policy: (500, 'gutsy'), (500, 'unstable'), (1, 'experimental')
Architecture: i386 (i686)

Kernel: Linux 2.6.25-2-686 (SMP w/2 CPU cores)
Locale: LANG=de_DE.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=de_DE.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)

iJwEAQECAAYFAkh+MW8ACgkQDLQl4QYPZuVw7gP/duEe3gVD6YAq2ZiVKAjo0Wnn
z1Q/NbhiXu3IQfeQWkLziyU322fd4R9W6riHCgCafzqnwxoYHYrISx6rKXy3zO1K
f/fdvNOm9Y+g3Ae7Uo4VJ9+GE/sJlkP0vtGrxIKNjexPMj2MGcif2hdVyIadZQKK
U+6hN5/teKBtisTOuOU=
=s7XS
-END PGP SIGNATURE-



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Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?

[Pasi Kärkkäinen]

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 07:26:48PM +0200, maximilian attems wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 07:53:52PM +0300, Teodor wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 2:49 PM, Pasi Kärkkäinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >> > > See: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps
> > >> > > I think x86-64 xen patches are going in for 2.6.27..
> > >
> > > Lenny will not support 64bit, no dom0.. so basicly lenny can only be used 
> > > as
> > > a 32bit domU .. unless people build/get some other dom0 kernel.
> > 
> > What about the patches for x86-64 support in domU? If these are going
> > to be included in 2.6.27 does it mean they qualify [1] to be included
> > in the kernel for lenny?
> 
> no.
> please read a thread before posting to it, that question is already
> answered twice.
> 

btw out of curiosity do you know if the kernel patch policy was different 
earlier (for etch), because xen kernel for etch (2.6.18-*-xen-686) contains 
non-upstream xen patches (from xensource).. 

-- Pasi


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Re: Xen status in lenny?

[Moritz Muehlenhoff]

Bastian Blank wrote:
> Xen got a often used technique in the last two years. All of the large
> distributions got some sort of support for it. Debian Etch have full
> support for it. There was several requests of various people so I think
> not providing at least a minimal support in Lenny is wrong.
>
> I think option 4 would be the solution which produces the least amount
> of extra work and provides our users with support for there systems. I
> would provide the necessary packages but I want an okay for that
> solution from the security and the release team.

Since there's now a sixth option - the forward-ported XenSource patch to
SLES's 2.6.26 - could we test this patch before we decide on a plan?

To me using the forward-ported SLES patch for Lenny and switching to pvops
post-Lenny seems ideal.

Cheers,
Moritz


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Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?

[maximilian attems]

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 09:44:00PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 07:26:48PM +0200, maximilian attems wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 07:53:52PM +0300, Teodor wrote:
> > > On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 2:49 PM, Pasi Kärkkäinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > wrote:
> > > >> > > See: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps
> > > >> > > I think x86-64 xen patches are going in for 2.6.27..
> > > >
> > > > Lenny will not support 64bit, no dom0.. so basicly lenny can only be 
> > > > used as
> > > > a 32bit domU .. unless people build/get some other dom0 kernel.
> > > 
> > > What about the patches for x86-64 support in domU? If these are going
> > > to be included in 2.6.27 does it mean they qualify [1] to be included
> > > in the kernel for lenny?
> > 
> > no.
> > please read a thread before posting to it, that question is already
> > answered twice.
> > 
> 
> btw out of curiosity do you know if the kernel patch policy was different 
> earlier (for etch), because xen kernel for etch (2.6.18-*-xen-686) contains 
> non-upstream xen patches (from xensource).. 

xen upstream back then ported forward their own patches *and* everybody
expected their patches to be merged. earliest merge plans were floating
for 2.6.15.

reliance on external patches is always bad, kvm is in kernel.
it doesn't try to duplicate dog and cat, but uses linux scheduler
itself and so on..

also if release team still decides to push for 2.6.25, which is
possible if 2.6.26 turns out bad, you still have much less xen
features.

-- 
maks


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Re: [Pkg-xen-devel] Xen status in lenny?

[Pasi Kärkkäinen]

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 08:56:24PM +0200, maximilian attems wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 09:44:00PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 07:26:48PM +0200, maximilian attems wrote:
> > > On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 07:53:52PM +0300, Teodor wrote:
> > > > On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 2:49 PM, Pasi Kärkkäinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >> > > See: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps
> > > > >> > > I think x86-64 xen patches are going in for 2.6.27..
> > > > >
> > > > > Lenny will not support 64bit, no dom0.. so basicly lenny can only be 
> > > > > used as
> > > > > a 32bit domU .. unless people build/get some other dom0 kernel.
> > > > 
> > > > What about the patches for x86-64 support in domU? If these are going
> > > > to be included in 2.6.27 does it mean they qualify [1] to be included
> > > > in the kernel for lenny?
> > > 
> > > no.
> > > please read a thread before posting to it, that question is already
> > > answered twice.
> > > 
> > 
> > btw out of curiosity do you know if the kernel patch policy was different 
> > earlier (for etch), because xen kernel for etch (2.6.18-*-xen-686) contains 
> > non-upstream xen patches (from xensource).. 
> 
> xen upstream back then ported forward their own patches *and* everybody
> expected their patches to be merged. earliest merge plans were floating
> for 2.6.15.
> 

Ok. This is what I expected happened back then. 

> reliance on external patches is always bad, kvm is in kernel.
> it doesn't try to duplicate dog and cat, but uses linux scheduler
> itself and so on..
> 

Yep.

> also if release team still decides to push for 2.6.25, which is
> possible if 2.6.26 turns out bad, you still have much less xen
> features.
> 

Indeed. This is why the situation with Xen for Lenny is really problematic.. 

-- Pasi


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Re: Status of Emdebian {ARM}

[Neil Williams]

On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 00:45 +0200, Loïc Minier wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008, Neil Williams wrote:
> > 1. gtk+2.0 fails to cross-build because the patches now try to build the
> > udeb which comes up against a bug in dpkg-cross. I've uploaded the
> > new version (including a couple of other bug fixes) today. (A late
> > problem in apt-cross has delayed things slightly.) The Gtk package also
> > needs some work to run /usr/lib/libgtk2.0-0/update-gdkpixbuf-loaders so
> > that the icons can be read in the GUI.
> > 
> > 2. pango1.0 also needs a fix to update the pango modules. This is
> > usually done at build time but it means running a cross-built binary. It
> > is a minor task and not CPU intensive so I plan to do this in postinst.
> > Without this fix, no text is rendered in the GUI, only empty glyphs.
> 
>  These used to be in the postinst, but were moved to build time as it
>  caused issue for pango/gtk+ frontends during upgrades: if you're
>  running a gtk+/pango debconf frontend, it needs these working at all
>  times -- you can't allow it to break between unpack and new postinst's
>  configure.

So far, we aren't using a pango/gtk+ frontend for package stuff but
thanks for the explanation. What we'd need is support for CC_FOR_BUILD
in pango upstream which will always use the default build system
compiler (gcc in Debian) to compile the querymodules executable. I'd be
happy to look at how this should be implemented - see fontconfig:

# Setup for compiling build tools (fc-glyphname, etc)
AC_MSG_CHECKING([for a C compiler for build tools])
if test $cross_compiling = yes; then
  AC_CHECK_PROGS(CC_FOR_BUILD, gcc cc)
else
  CC_FOR_BUILD=$CC
fi
AC_MSG_RESULT([$CC_FOR_BUILD])
AC_SUBST(CC_FOR_BUILD)

Then replace $(CC) with $(CC_FOR_BUILD) in the Makefile component
exclusively for the compilation of the querymodules executable.

A patch in Debian would be the first step. I'll add it to the list of
things to do at DebCamp.

-- 


Neil Williams
=
http://www.data-freedom.org/
http://www.nosoftwarepatents.com/
http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/




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Re: Re: Include on first iso: m-a, build essential, kernel headers

[richs]

Hi, basically I am requesting module-assistant, build-essential and the 
kernel headers for the default kernel on the first iso. These are basic 
tools that are necessary to be able to install non-free, proprietary 
packages such as madwifi, nvidia-drivers etc.


My main point is the wireless issue (Atheros; Madwifi ath_pci module not 
ath5k), but there are many people who use USB modems and other hardware 
who need to compile drivers and modules to get an internet connection. 
Most will have the firmware and drivers available, but the 
aforementioned packages are essential to be able to compile/build/install.


As for Mono, I was referring to the latest Gnome release on Lenny and 
Sid, not Etch. I have my own personal gripes about the renaming of 
Firefox etc, but that's another issue.


I think that including headers, m-a and build essential would be a good 
move for the developers. Other distros have out-of-the-box non-free and 
proprietary apps/drivers/codecs, I would just like to see Debian offer a 
complete base on that first iso. At least offering the means to 
completely setup Debian form the get-go.


Richs
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Re: ITP: MUMPS -- MUltifrontal Massively Parallel sparse direct Solver

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 07/15/08 19:14, Adam C Powell IV wrote:
> Package: wnpp
> Severity: wishlist
> 
> Package name: mumps
> Version: 4.7.3
> Author: Patrick Amestoy et al.
> License: public domain
> URL: http://mumps.enseeiht.fr/
> Description: MUltifrontal Massively Parallel sparse direct Solver
> 
> MUMPS implements a direct solver for large sparse linear systems, with a
> particular focus on symmetric positive definite matrices.  It can
> operate on distributed matrices e.g. over a cluster.  It has Fortran and
> C interfaces, and can interface with ordering tools such as METIS.
> 
> Version 9.3 of Code_Aster (ITP 458812) uses MUMPS, so this package will
> play a role in that packaging effort.

Mumps is a computer language.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUMPS

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA

"Kittens give Morbo gas.  In lighter news, the city of New New
York is doomed."
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Re: Re: Include on first iso: m-a, build essential, kernel headers

[brian m. carlson]

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 09:53:24PM +0200, richs wrote:
I think that including headers, m-a and build essential would be a good  
move for the developers. Other distros have out-of-the-box non-free and  
proprietary apps/drivers/codecs, I would just like to see Debian offer a  
complete base on that first iso. At least offering the means to  
completely setup Debian form the get-go.


Non-free (and contrib) packages are not part of Debian and are therefore
not shipped on Debian CDs or DVDs.  I understand your frustration with
not being able to use your wireless card out of the box; I have the same
problem, since my card (iwl3945) requires non-free firmware.  However,
the Social Contract states very clearly that only Free Software can be
part of Debian.

Even if the packages you request were available on the first CD, you
still don't have the drivers that you would need to compile, since those
are in non-free or contrib and thus aren't on the CDs.  Your best
chances of getting a working system out of the box are if Free drivers
without firmware are included into the kernel.  If this is a serious
concern, I would recommend carefully selecting the hardware you buy for
optimal compatibility.

--
brian m. carlson / brian with sandals: Houston, Texas, US
+1 713 440 7475 | http://crustytoothpaste.ath.cx/~bmc | My opinion only
troff on top of XML: http://crustytoothpaste.ath.cx/~bmc/code/thwack
OpenPGP: RSA v4 4096b 88AC E9B2 9196 305B A994 7552 F1BA 225C 0223 B187


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Re: sysklogd/rsyslog switch

[Peter Samuelson]

[Jonas Meurer]
> I believe that this switch should be documented in the release notes
> as well, shouldn't it?

Well, it doesn't affect upgrades.  And for new installs, _all_ the
packages are new, so this falls under the case of Debian picking one
alternative of something as a default.  I don't know if those cases are
terribly important for the release notes.  Do the release notes say
which inetd we favor?  Well, I see they do, but should they?
-- 
Peter Samuelson | org-tld!p12n!peter | http://p12n.org/


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Re: Re: Include on first iso: m-a, build essential, kernel headers

[Mike Hommey]

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 08:21:14PM +, brian m. carlson wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 09:53:24PM +0200, richs wrote:
>> I think that including headers, m-a and build essential would be a good 
>>  move for the developers. Other distros have out-of-the-box non-free 
>> and  proprietary apps/drivers/codecs, I would just like to see Debian 
>> offer a  complete base on that first iso. At least offering the means 
>> to  completely setup Debian form the get-go.
>
> Non-free (and contrib) packages are not part of Debian and are therefore
> not shipped on Debian CDs or DVDs.  I understand your frustration with
> not being able to use your wireless card out of the box; I have the same
> problem, since my card (iwl3945) requires non-free firmware.  However,
> the Social Contract states very clearly that only Free Software can be
> part of Debian.
>
> Even if the packages you request were available on the first CD, you
> still don't have the drivers that you would need to compile, since those
> are in non-free or contrib and thus aren't on the CDs.  Your best
> chances of getting a working system out of the box are if Free drivers
> without firmware are included into the kernel.  If this is a serious
> concern, I would recommend carefully selecting the hardware you buy for
> optimal compatibility.

I'm wondering... do we have binary packages for all kernel modules we have
(free) -source packages for so that such kernel modules don't need to be
built by users ? If no, then maybe either they should exist or m-a and
other necessary stuff should be on the first CD, as well as the -source
packages. If yes, maybe they should be on the first CD if they are not
already.

Mike


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Re: Re: Include on first iso: m-a, build essential, kernel headers

[Frans Pop]

richs wrote:
> Hi, basically I am requesting module-assistant, build-essential and the
> kernel headers for the default kernel on the first iso.

I really don't have a clue what you're going on about then.

If you check these pages, you'll see that all three package you name _are_ 
on the first CD and that means their dependencies are too.

Etch CD:
http://atterer.net/jigdo/jigdo-search.php?q=build-essential&l=http%3A%2F%2Fcdimage.debian.org%2Fcdimage%2Frelease%2F4.0_r3%2Fi386%2Fjigdo-cd%2Fdebian-40r3-i386-CD-1.jigdo
Lenny Beta 2 CD:
http://atterer.net/jigdo/jigdo-search.php?q=build-essential&l=http%3A%2F%2Fcdimage.debian.org%2Fcdimage%2Fweekly-builds%2Fi386%2Fjigdo-cd%2Fdebian-testing-i386-CD-1.jigdo
Weekly built CD:
http://atterer.net/jigdo/jigdo-search.php?q=build-essential&l=http%3A%2F%2Fcdimage.debian.org%2Fcdimage%2Fweekly-builds%2Fi386%2Fjigdo-cd%2Fdebian-testing-i386-CD-1.jigdo

Cheers,
FJP


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RFC: libprojectM, new upstream version.

[Francesco Namuri]

Hi,
I've packaged the new version of this library, the upstream author has
changed the SONAME, and so I've changed the name of the lib and -data
package, not changed the name of the -dev file because the old
maintainer has chosen to not version the package.

This is my first library package, and I've some doubts, is for this that
I'm asking for RFC...

Is it correct to replace the old library? This can cause some breakage
with old linked binaries (if any, I've seen that no package depends on
this library)...

about the change of SONAME by the upstream author, is it correct to
change the SONAME if the library is compatible with the old one?

Thanks in advance.

Best Regards,
francesco

The respective dsc file can be found at:
http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/l/libprojectm/libprojectm_1.2.0-1.dsc


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Re: sysklogd/rsyslog switch

[Bernd Eckenfels]

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> you wrote:
> Well, it doesn't affect upgrades.  And for new installs, _all_ the
> packages are new, so this falls under the case of Debian picking one
> alternative of something as a default.

Well, if Debian defaults change long term users need to know - even for new
installs.

Gruss
Bernd


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Re: Re: Re: Include on first iso: m-a, build essential, kernel headers

[richs]

Hi Fjp:

I am surprised that the dependencies are on the image, as I have always 
been met with problems trying to install build-essential from the first iso.


I will post the output from the terminal on my next fresh install of 
Lenny and Etch.


I can assure you that on an http download i386 iso, m-a is not.
http://atterer.net/jigdo/jigdo-search.php?q=module-assistant+_i386

And on Lenny the latest kernel headers weren't available either.

richs


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Re: RFC: libprojectM, new upstream version.

[William Pitcock]

Hi,

On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 22:59 +0200, Francesco Namuri wrote:
> Hi,
> I've packaged the new version of this library, the upstream author has
> changed the SONAME, and so I've changed the name of the lib and -data
> package, not changed the name of the -dev file because the old
> maintainer has chosen to not version the package.
> 
> This is my first library package, and I've some doubts, is for this that
> I'm asking for RFC...
> 
> Is it correct to replace the old library? This can cause some breakage
> with old linked binaries (if any, I've seen that no package depends on
> this library)...

audacious-plugins
libvisual-projectm

You will have to at least update audacious-plugins to work before doing
this.

> about the change of SONAME by the upstream author, is it correct to
> change the SONAME if the library is compatible with the old one?

The library isn't compatible. Upstream breaks the API with every
release, so I gave up on them.

William


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Re: Re: Include on first iso: m-a, build essential, kernel headers

[Charles Plessy]

Le Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 08:21:14PM +, brian m. carlson a écrit :
> 
> Non-free (and contrib) packages are not part of Debian and are therefore
> not shipped on Debian CDs or DVDs.  I understand your frustration with
> not being able to use your wireless card out of the box; I have the same
> problem, since my card (iwl3945) requires non-free firmware.  However,
> the Social Contract states very clearly that only Free Software can be
> part of Debian.

Hi Brian,

the Social Contract does not forbid to ship non-Debian files on the same
medium as the Debian operatign system. I think that the problem is more
that many non-free programs do not have a licence that is compatible
with some widespread ways of distributing Debian, such as pressing it on
a CD and selling it.

Have a nice day,

-- 
Charles Plessy
Tsurumi, Kanagawa, Japan


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Re: RFC: libprojectM, new upstream version.

[Francesco Namuri]

Il giorno mer, 16/07/2008 alle 17.46 -0500, William Pitcock ha scritto:
> Hi,
> 
> On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 22:59 +0200, Francesco Namuri wrote:
> > Hi,
> > I've packaged the new version of this library, the upstream author has
> > changed the SONAME, and so I've changed the name of the lib and -data
> > package, not changed the name of the -dev file because the old
> > maintainer has chosen to not version the package.
> > 
> > This is my first library package, and I've some doubts, is for this that
> > I'm asking for RFC...
> > 
> > Is it correct to replace the old library? This can cause some breakage
> > with old linked binaries (if any, I've seen that no package depends on
> > this library)...
> 
> audacious-plugins
> libvisual-projectm
> 
> You will have to at least update audacious-plugins to work before doing
> this.

ok,
but about the name of the binary library package, is much correct to add
the SONAME in the name of the package libprojectm2_1.2.0-1_i386.deb that
replaces libprojectm1_1.01.0-1_i386.deb for example? or, considering
that it is a small library a generic libprojectm_1.2.0-1_i386.deb?

and to avoid breakage with audacious-plugins without updating
audacious-plugins itself, can I, hypothetically, make libprojectm2 to be
installable with libprojectm1?
 
> > about the change of SONAME by the upstream author, is it correct to
> > change the SONAME if the library is compatible with the old one?
> 
> The library isn't compatible. Upstream breaks the API with every
> release, so I gave up on them.

Best Regards,
francesco


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Re: RFC: libprojectM, new upstream version.

[William Pitcock]

On Thu, 2008-07-17 at 00:57 +0200, Francesco Namuri wrote:
> Il giorno mer, 16/07/2008 alle 17.46 -0500, William Pitcock ha scritto:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 22:59 +0200, Francesco Namuri wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > > I've packaged the new version of this library, the upstream author has
> > > changed the SONAME, and so I've changed the name of the lib and -data
> > > package, not changed the name of the -dev file because the old
> > > maintainer has chosen to not version the package.
> > > 
> > > This is my first library package, and I've some doubts, is for this that
> > > I'm asking for RFC...
> > > 
> > > Is it correct to replace the old library? This can cause some breakage
> > > with old linked binaries (if any, I've seen that no package depends on
> > > this library)...
> > 
> > audacious-plugins
> > libvisual-projectm
> > 
> > You will have to at least update audacious-plugins to work before doing
> > this.
> 
> ok,
> but about the name of the binary library package, is much correct to add
> the SONAME in the name of the package libprojectm2_1.2.0-1_i386.deb that
> replaces libprojectm1_1.01.0-1_i386.deb for example? or, considering
> that it is a small library a generic libprojectm_1.2.0-1_i386.deb?

Debian policy requires that it be named libprojectm2. Please be sure to
read the policy manual before continuing.

> 
> and to avoid breakage with audacious-plugins without updating
> audacious-plugins itself, can I, hypothetically, make libprojectm2 to be
> installable with libprojectm1?

Audacious-Plugins actual code will have to be ported to the new API. The
new API has incompatible changes. 

See the lines in my previous mail with ^'s below them, for a more
detailed explanation about the breakage trend in projectM.

>  
> > > about the change of SONAME by the upstream author, is it correct to
> > > change the SONAME if the library is compatible with the old one?
> > 
> > The library isn't compatible. Upstream breaks the API with every

> > release, so I gave up on them.
^^^

API breakage results in ABI breakage, which means the SONAME must be
changed, and *applications ported to the new API*.

At any rate, is there really any *point* in upgrading the library
anyway? The new versions do not introduce any new features that make the
effort worthwhile.

If you can't handle this, then please do not take the package, or at
least wait until after lenny is released to do so.

William


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Bug#491138: ITP: audacious2 -- cross-platform multi-interface audio player

[William Pitcock]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: William Pitcock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: audacious2
  Version : 1.9.0+hg20080717
  Upstream Author : William Pitcock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Tony Vroon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Matti Hamalainen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Tomasz Mon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Michael Farber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://audacious-media-player.org/index.php?title=Audacious2
* License : GPL
  Programming Lang: C
  Description : cross-platform multi-interface audio player
 Audacious2 is a cross platform player which supports multiple interfaces
 through an abstraction layer. It is the spiritual successor to Audacious,
 but is a new codebase with most of the XMMS legacy removed.
 .
 It supports all of the formats Audacious does, with additional features
 and also new formats like PSF2.
 .
 This package is still experimental, and shouldn't be used yet.

For now, this package will conflict with audacious1, and be uploaded to
experimental. As audacious2 development progresses, it will be possible
to install audacious1 and audacious2 side-by-side.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: lenny/sid
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)

Kernel: Linux 2.6.24-1-amd64 (SMP w/2 CPU cores)
Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash



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Bug#491139: ITP: audacious2-plugins -- required and optional plugins for Audacious2

[William Pitcock]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: William Pitcock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: audacious2-plugins
  Version : 1.9.0+hg20080717
  Upstream Author : William Pitcock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Tony Vroon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Matti Hamalainen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Tomasz Mon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Michael Farber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://audacious-media-player.org/index.php?title=Audacious2
* License : GPL  
  Programming Lang: C 
  Description : required and optional plugins for Audacious2
 Audacious2 is a cross platform player which supports multiple interfaces
 through an abstraction layer. It is the spiritual successor to Audacious, 
 but is a new codebase with most of the XMMS legacy removed.
 .
 It supports all of the formats Audacious does, with additional features   
 and also new formats like PSF2.
 .
 This package contains the plugins required for Audacious2 to operate.
 .
 This package is still experimental, and shouldn't be used yet.

For now, this package will conflict with audacious-plugins, and be uploaded to
experimental. As audacious2 development progresses, it will be possible
to install audacious and audacious2 side-by-side.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: lenny/sid
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)

Kernel: Linux 2.6.24-1-amd64 (SMP w/2 CPU cores)
Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash



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Re: Status of Emdebian {ARM}

[Paul Wise]

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 6:23 AM, Neil Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Work is ongoing to fold uClibc into Emdebian to reduce installation sizes 
> further.

FYI, uclibc is no longer available in Debian sid/lenny.

-- 
bye,
pabs

http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise


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Re: Include on first iso: m-a, build essential, kernel headers

[Frans Pop]

On Thursday 17 July 2008, richs wrote:
> I can assure you that on an http download i386 iso, m-a is not.
> http://atterer.net/jigdo/jigdo-search.php?q=module-assistant+_i386

You really need to check your facts better. If you use the links I 
provided and just search the pages:

http://atterer.net/jigdo/jigdo-search.php?q=build-essential&l=http%3A%2F%2Fcdimage.debian.org%2Fcdimage%2Frelease%2F4.0_r3%2Fi386%2Fjigdo-cd%2Fdebian-40r3-i386-CD-1.jigdo
17 Feb 2008;Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 r3 "Etch" - Official i386 CD Binary-1 
20080217-11:50 (20080217)
pool/main/m/module-assistant/module-assistant_0.10.8_all.deb
pool/main/l/linux-latest-2.6/linux-headers-2.6-686_2.6.18+6etch3_i386.deb
pool/main/l/linux-latest-2.6/linux-headers-2.6-486_2.6.18+6etch3_i386.deb
pool/main/l/linux-2.6/linux-headers-2.6.18-6-686_2.6.18.dfsg.1-18etch1_i386.deb
pool/main/l/linux-2.6/linux-headers-2.6.18-6_2.6.18.dfsg.1-18etch1_i386.deb
pool/main/l/linux-2.6/linux-headers-2.6.18-6-486_2.6.18.dfsg.1-18etch1_i386.deb

http://atterer.net/jigdo/jigdo-search.php?q=build-essent&l=http%3A%2F%2Fcdimage.debian.org%2Fcdimage%2Flenny_di_beta2%2Fi386%2Fjigdo-cd%2Fdebian-LennyBeta2-i386-CD-1.jigdo
07 Jun 2008;Debian GNU/Linux LennyBeta2 "Lenny" - Official Beta i386 CD 
Binary-1 20080607-17:43 (20080607)
pool/main/m/module-assistant/module-assistant_0.10.11.0_all.deb
pool/main/l/linux-latest-2.6/linux-headers-2.6-686_2.6.24+13_i386.deb
pool/main/l/linux-latest-2.6/linux-headers-2.6-486_2.6.24+13_i386.deb
pool/main/l/linux-2.6/linux-headers-2.6.24-1-686_2.6.24-7_i386.deb
pool/main/l/linux-2.6/linux-headers-2.6.24-1-common_2.6.24-7_i386.deb
pool/main/l/linux-2.6/linux-headers-2.6.24-1-486_2.6.24-7_i386.deb
(link for the Lenny Beta2 CD was wrong in my previous mail)

I'll let you check the weekly images yourself.

It looks like the search you tried is just broken.


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Re: Status of Emdebian {ARM}

[Neil Williams]

On Thu, 2008-07-17 at 11:57 +0800, Paul Wise wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 6:23 AM, Neil Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Work is ongoing to fold uClibc into Emdebian to reduce installation sizes 
> > further.
> 
> FYI, uclibc is no longer available in Debian sid/lenny.

uClibc will be back.
;-)

(i.e. I am not unaware of the current status of uClibc.)

Meanwhile, support for uClibc must be developed and tested within Debian
and Emdebian. The lack of uClibc in Debian, although a hindrance, does
not prevent the development of uClibc support in Emdebian.

-- 


Neil Williams
=
http://www.data-freedom.org/
http://www.nosoftwarepatents.com/
http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/




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