Bug#472915: ITP: hxq -- HXQ - a compiler from XQuery to Haskell

[Bryan Donlan]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Bryan Donlan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: hxq
  Version : 0.5
  Upstream Author : Leonidas Fegaras <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://lambda.uta.edu/HXQ/
* License : Simple permissive license (copied below)
  Programming Lang: Haskell
  Description : HXQ - a compiler from XQuery to Haskell

(description copied from upstream)
HXQ is a fast and space-efficient translator from XQuery to embedded
Haskell code (the translation is based on GHC templates). It takes full
advantage of Haskell's lazy evaluation to keep in memory only those
parts of XML data needed at each point of evaluation, thus performing
stream-based evaluation. This results to an implementation that is as
fast and space-efficient as any stream-based implementation based on SAX
filters or finite state machines.

License:
Copyright (c) 2008 by Leonidas Fegaras, the University of Texas at
Arlington. All rights reserved.
This material is provided as is, with absolutely no warranty expressed or
implied. Any use is at your own risk. Permission is hereby granted to use or
copy this program for any purpose, provided the above notices are retained on
all copies.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: lenny/sid
  APT prefers testing
  APT policy: (990, 'testing'), (500, 'unstable')
Architecture: i386 (i686)

Kernel: Linux 2.6.18.8-domU-linode7 (SMP w/4 CPU cores)
Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash



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Re: A suggestion

[Lennart Sorensen]

On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 12:32:33PM +0530, Unni wrote:
> I have been using debian for the last 2 years. ( i was unaware of linux b4
> that)
> I installed debian etch in many machines with varying configurations. Most
> of the time I was only able to install the base system with no sound, poor
> resolution, no video etc. This was especially in laptops.
> Recently I tried Ubuntu. Surprisingly to me, after installation the sound
> card, video card etc are detected automatically.
> And more.. the appearence is much good compared to etch, i think.
> 
> Why the debian can be more interesting? More graphics, more drivers etc.
> I think this can be done without a big effort ( correct me if  I am wrong).
> I suggest to make this change possible.
> 
> If this is not a good suggestion please discard it. I love to use debian and
> I wanted it to be more that Ubuntu.

Most machines I have installed Etch on detected everything perfectly
too.  Even more so for recent attempts with Lenny.

Ubuntu does seem to try harder to make auto detection of x86 hardware
work well, while Debian tries to make sure all architectures work well,
although given the scope of all that hardware, it may not be quite as
automatic.

Of course Ubuntu also updates their releases way more often than Debian,
and willl work easier on new hardware then Debian as a result, since you
can't expect a 2 your old distribution to work perfectly on a 1 year old
machine since the hardware hadn't even been designed when the software
was released.  Try installing Windowx XP on a new machine without having
some driver disks to help it with all that new hardware.

--
Len Sorensen


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Re: ITP: libnet-dhcp-perl -- Interface for handling DHCP packets

[Hendrik Frenzel]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Gunnar Wolf schrieb:
> Hendrik Frenzel dijo [Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 05:41:49PM +0100]:
>> * Package name: libnet-dhcp-perl
>> (...)
>>   Description : Interface for handling DHCP packets
>>
>> This module is a release of the DHCP protocol interface to Perl 5. There
>> are two parts to the interface: the packet component (Net::DHCP::Packet)
>> and the constants component (Net::DHCP::Constants) which represents
>> constants used in DHCP protocol, defined in RFC 1533, RFC 2132, RFC
>> 2241, RFC 2485, RFC 2563, RFC 2937, RFC 3004, RFC 3011, RFC 3046.
> 
> Just to be a bit too picky: Please ellaborate on the description what
> does 'handling' mean - analizing them on real time? Modifying and
> reinjecting them to wreck chaos? Describe what can it do with the
> packets.

"With Net::DHCP you can create and analyze DHCP packets which are sent
or received with the help of IO::Socket::INET."

I'll update the package description in svn tomorrow. Do you think this
sentence is descriptive enought?

> I do not think listing the RFCs that define DHCP do anything to help
> the user understand what the package is about. But do make sure the
> upstream tarball does not include the RFCs themselves, as they are
> non-free. 

The RFCs aren't included. The list is just part of description of the
::Constats module.

> Greetings,

Bye
Hendrik

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Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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=evSE
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Re: A suggestion

[Mike Bird]

On Wed March 26 2008 05:51:32 Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 12:32:33PM +0530, Unni wrote:
> > Why the debian can be more interesting? More graphics, more drivers etc.
> > I think this can be done without a big effort ( correct me if  I am
> > wrong). I suggest to make this change possible.
>
> Ubuntu has already made the effort.  So, if that is what you are looking
> for, then use Ubuntu.  Debian is targeted at a much wider audience using
> a much greater variety of hardware in a great many more configurations.
> Many of those people have no need or desire for the features you
> describe.

The OP makes an important point.  Debian is losing users and relevance.
Although Debian supports a wider range of architectures than Ubuntu,
the reality is that Debian now targets a much narrower audience - the
"old hardware crowd".

Popcon[0] records 97% of hits from just the i386 and amd64 architectures,
yet packages are frequently delayed for weeks or even months while
architectures enjoying 0.1% popcon scores struggle to catch up.

Lenny is still only at linux kernel 2.6.22, which means little support
for hardware up to a year old!  Sid is not suitable for most people,
and most people lack the skills or inclination to install and maintain
a mix of Lenny and Sid.

Stable has linux kernel 2.6.18, which means little support for hardware
up to two years old, and six months still to go before the next version.

Ubuntu has a much better handle on the issue of producing timely
releases, but Ubuntu is also quirky and very much "my way or the
highway".  I would hate to be unable to continue using Debian.

The next DPL should have a solid plan for reversing Debian's decline.
If this means that some architectures fall by the wayside for lack of
interest then so be it.  Better to lose several 0.1% architectures
than for Debian as a whole to continue the slide towards irrelevance.

--Mike Bird

[0] http://popcon.debian.org/

Re: A suggestion

[Andreas Tille]

On Wed, 26 Mar 2008, Lennart Sorensen wrote:


Ubuntu does seem to try harder to make auto detection of x86 hardware
work well, while Debian tries to make sure all architectures work well,
although given the scope of all that hardware, it may not be quite as
automatic.


To be honest: I see no real contradiction in perfect detection of x86
hardware while trying best to detect other hardware as good as possible.
So I would regard the argument: "We do not detect x86 as good as Ubuntu
because we also detect other hardware." as completely void and outsiders
will consider this as ignorance.


Of course Ubuntu also updates their releases way more often than Debian,
and willl work easier on new hardware then Debian as a result, since you
can't expect a 2 your old distribution to work perfectly on a 1 year old
machine since the hardware hadn't even been designed when the software
was released.


This sounds more reasonable (but will trigger the next question which
is ranking high on top of FAQ lists). ;-)

Kind regards

  Andreas.

--
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Re: A suggestion

[Petter Reinholdtsen]

[Roberto C. Sánchez]
> Debian is targeted at a much wider audience using a much greater
> variety of hardware in a great many more configurations.  Many of
> those people have no need or desire for the features you describe.

And quite a lot of us Debian users have a need an desire of the
features described.  As one of the Debian Developers that has spent
the last 7 years improve all of them in Debian, I am happy to report
that we are doing well, and while Ubuntu has been copying and
releasing our improvement (as well as made their own) before Debian
managed to, I am confident that we will merge back the good pieces
from Ubuntu to make sure Debian continue to be a great distribution
also for laptop and desktop users.

> Alternatively, since Debian is an all-volunteer project you can feel
> free to volunteer to contribute the necessary changes.

We definitely need more hands to work on the tasks in Debian, but this
reply feels to me like a "do it yourself or shut up", and I believe
such reply is uncalled for.

Automatic configuration, improved hardware detection, improved
handling of laptops, faster installations, quicker boots, more
hardware supported are all features being worked on, and Debian is
better than ever on all these accounts.  Lenny will be the best Debian
release ever, as Etch was before it.

Happy hacking,
-- 
Petter Reinholdtsen


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Re: Fwd: Upstream's complete overhaul of the configuration file - And future handling

[Taher Shihadeh]

Sorry for being a day late, but I didn't give it much thought until now.

The flow suggested by Gunnar seems sensible enough, but starting cherokee-admin 
at boot time makes no sense to me.
May be the easiest thing would be not launching cherokee-admin at all and 
having the default placeholder webpage mention the way to launch the 
configuration program.

If not, and if cherokee-admin must be launched via Debocnf, how about halting 
the setup process until the web interface has been properly used?
Afterwards Debconf would resume after being signaled by the user and it could 
simply stop cherokee-admin and proceed as usual.

I believe the simplest thing would be not calling the configuration interface 
and simply pointing out its existence at the wellcoming page.
Of course this would only apply if the conversion between config files wasn't 
done or it was a new installation.

On 25 Mar 2008, Alvaro Lopez Ortega wrote:
> 
> Begin forwarded message:
> > From: Gunnar Wolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: 25 March 2008 16:46:48 GMT+01:00
> > To: debian-devel@lists.debian.org
> > Cc: Álvaro López Ortega <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: Upstream's complete overhaul of the configuration file -  
> > And future handling
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > The new upstream version of a package I maintain (Cherokee, a
> > lightweight extensible web server) requires the configuration file to
> > be completely rewritten - Version 0.6.x will just not parse 0.5.x's
> > config file. It does ship a converter, but of course, nobody will
> > claim it is perfect.
> >
> > The new configuration file is not meant to be hand-edited (although it
> > can, it is not a binary registry)
> >
> > So, I'm planning the following flow - Please correct me if you feel
> > I'm missing something:
> >
> > 1- At preinst, ask via Debconf if user wants the script to perform the
> >   automatic conversion.
> > 2a- If user does not want automatic conversion, just display what  
> > would
> >have been done, and signal the daemon not to start (i.e. setting a
> >variable in /etc/default/cherokee). Should I leave the old
> >Cherokee instance running, or should I leave it in a stopped
> >state?
> > 2b- If the user does want automatic conversion, do it - and leave the
> >daemon running. Leave old configuration as reference, appending
> >   .old to filename.
> >
> > Does this sound sensible?
> >
> > Now, regarding the future handling (and that's why I'm Cc:ing Álvaro,
> > the Cherokee author): The configuration is handled by cherokee-admin,
> > a separate Cherokee server with a built-in and limited
> > configuration. I don't think cherokee-admin is expected to be active
> > at all times, but then again, it feels a bit awkward just to issue a
> > command-line argument to start a server whenever I want to tweak my
> > configuration. Do you think cherokee-admin should be started at boot
> > time? (of course, this would be done using a separate initscript)
> >
> > Thanks for your comments.
> >
> > -- 
> > Gunnar Wolf - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - (+52-55)5623-0154 / 1451-2244
> > PGP key 1024D/8BB527AF 2001-10-23
> > Fingerprint: 0C79 D2D1 2C4E 9CE4 5973  F800 D80E F35A 8BB5 27AF
> 
> --
> Greetings, alo.
> http://www.alobbs.com/
> 
> 



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Re: A suggestion

[Lothar]

Why would i have to put up with graphics when i run Debian on servers?
I'd have to remove stuff, came Debian default with those. I prefer to
add things when needed, rather than the opposite way. Debian is not
only targetted at Desktop users. Ubuntu is, as far i can judge.
Also, I don't feel uncomfortable having to tell what video controller I
use locally, or what sound chip (actually, i can't remember that I
explicitely had to set that up myself). I know better than any
installer which video controller I intend to use, in case of multiple
adapters. That this approach is not ideal for first time users, is
evident. But OTOH, Debian users a commonly people who have gathered
some experience with Linux already, often switching over from another
distribution. Make Debian compete with other distributions targetting
unexperienced users seems detrimentary to both, it seems. Let's say
there is a user group for which Ubuntu simply fits better, and a group
for which Debian is a better choice. Why make them more similar?


On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 12:32:33 +0530
Unni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I have been using debian for the last 2 years. ( i was unaware of
> linux b4 that)
> I installed debian etch in many machines with varying configurations.
> Most of the time I was only able to install the base system with no
> sound, poor resolution, no video etc. This was especially in laptops.
> Recently I tried Ubuntu. Surprisingly to me, after installation the
> sound card, video card etc are detected automatically.
> And more.. the appearence is much good compared to etch, i think.
> 
> Why the debian can be more interesting? More graphics, more drivers
> etc. I think this can be done without a big effort ( correct me if  I
> am wrong). I suggest to make this change possible.
> 
> If this is not a good suggestion please discard it. I love to use
> debian and I wanted it to be more that Ubuntu.
> 
> Thank you for your time
> 
> Ravi Krishnan Unni


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Re: A suggestion

[Roberto C . Sánchez]

On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 11:20:00PM +0100, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:
> 
> [Roberto C. Sánchez]
> 
> > Alternatively, since Debian is an all-volunteer project you can feel
> > free to volunteer to contribute the necessary changes.
> 
> We definitely need more hands to work on the tasks in Debian, but this
> reply feels to me like a "do it yourself or shut up", and I believe
> such reply is uncalled for.
> 
It was not meant that way at all.  It was meant as a "Please don't try
and be an armchair project manager.  Rather, jump in and start doing
things."  Debian is, as far as I have seen, the best working example of
a merticracy.  People lead by example.  They don't just yell out "I want
this" and wait for other people to do it.  They start doing and if it is
a good idea and catches the interest of others, they also jump in and
start doing.

> Automatic configuration, improved hardware detection, improved
> handling of laptops, faster installations, quicker boots, more
> hardware supported are all features being worked on, and Debian is
> better than ever on all these accounts.  Lenny will be the best Debian
> release ever, as Etch was before it.
> 
I am in agreement.  It is worth noting that things are progressing in
this manner because of all of the work being done by people willing to
volunteer.

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez
http://people.connexer.com/~roberto
http://www.connexer.com


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Bug#472939: ITP: libclone-pp-perl -- Recursively copy Perl datatypes

[eloy]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: "Krzysztof Krzyżaniak (eloy)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


* Package name: libclone-pp-perl
  Version : 1.02
  Upstream Author : Matthew Simon Cavalletto at Evolution Softworks
* URL : http://search.cpan.org/dist/Clone-PP/
* License : Dual: Artistic/GPL
  Programming Lang: Perl
  Description : Recursively copy Perl datatypes

 Clone::PP provides a general-purpose clone function to make deep
 copies of Perl data structures. It calls itself recursively to copy
 nested hash, array, scalar and reference types, including tied
 variables and objects.
 .
 The clone() function takes a scalar argument to copy. To duplicate
 arrays or hashes, pass them in by reference:
 .
 my $copy = clone([EMAIL PROTECTED]);my @copy = @{ clone([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 
};
 my $copy = clone(\%hash); my %copy = %{ clone(\%hash) };
 .
 The clone() function also accepts an optional second parameter that
 can be used to limit the depth of the copy. If you pass a limit of
 0, clone will return the same value you supplied; for a limit of
 1, a shallow copy is constructed; for a limit of 2, two layers of
 copying are done, and so on.


-- System Information:
Debian Release: lenny/sid
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable'), (1, 'experimental')
Architecture: i386 (i686)

Kernel: Linux 2.6.24-1-686 (SMP w/1 CPU core)
Locale: LANG=pl_PL.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=pl_PL.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8) (ignored: LC_ALL 
set to pl_PL.UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash

Re: A suggestion

[Roberto C . Sánchez]

On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 08:35:51AM -0700, Mike Bird wrote:
> On Wed March 26 2008 05:51:32 Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
> > On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 12:32:33PM +0530, Unni wrote:
> > > Why the debian can be more interesting? More graphics, more drivers etc.
> > > I think this can be done without a big effort ( correct me if  I am
> > > wrong). I suggest to make this change possible.
> >
> > Ubuntu has already made the effort.  So, if that is what you are looking
> > for, then use Ubuntu.  Debian is targeted at a much wider audience using
> > a much greater variety of hardware in a great many more configurations.
> > Many of those people have no need or desire for the features you
> > describe.
> 
> The OP makes an important point.  Debian is losing users and relevance.

Is this why Debian is still the most often used source distro for making
a derivative?

> Although Debian supports a wider range of architectures than Ubuntu,
> the reality is that Debian now targets a much narrower audience - the
> "old hardware crowd".
> 
> Popcon[0] records 97% of hits from just the i386 and amd64 architectures,
> yet packages are frequently delayed for weeks or even months while
> architectures enjoying 0.1% popcon scores struggle to catch up.
> 
While I certainly understand that popcon is an indicator of popularity,
it is only that.  I don't imagine that someone running Debian on an s390
or on some other mainframe system will be inclined (since they are more
likely to work in a corporate setting) to install popcon and let the
system phone home.  I'm not trying to say that such users should be
considered more important than run of the mill home users, just that
such users are certainly underrepresented when compared to home users.

One of Debian's "core objectives" has been to support a wide variety of
architectures.  While the situation you describe (out of sync
migrations) is annoying, it is worse than what we have now.  If you feel
that a particular architecture is problematic, then you should
demonstrate how it failing to meet release objectives/goals/whatevers
and move to have its support dropped or made unofficial.  This is what
happened with m68k leading up to the release of Etch, right?

> Lenny is still only at linux kernel 2.6.22, which means little support
> for hardware up to a year old!  Sid is not suitable for most people,
> and most people lack the skills or inclination to install and maintain
> a mix of Lenny and Sid.
> 
> Stable has linux kernel 2.6.18, which means little support for hardware
> up to two years old, and six months still to go before the next version.
> 
> Ubuntu has a much better handle on the issue of producing timely
> releases, but Ubuntu is also quirky and very much "my way or the
> highway".  I would hate to be unable to continue using Debian.
> 
> The next DPL should have a solid plan for reversing Debian's decline.
> If this means that some architectures fall by the wayside for lack of
> interest then so be it.  Better to lose several 0.1% architectures
> than for Debian as a whole to continue the slide towards irrelevance.
> 
Except that Debian's "decline" (if it did exist in the first place) has
been stopped by the release of Etch, which was a huge jump forward.  If
Lenny is a big improvement, which it seems it will be, then things will
continue to improve.

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez
http://people.connexer.com/~roberto
http://www.connexer.com


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Re: A suggestion

[Charles Plessy]

Hello,

Le Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 08:35:51AM -0700, Mike Bird a écrit :
> 
> Debian is losing users and relevance.

This does not match the results of the "popcon" survey. It could be
that Debian would gain users slower than other distributions, but this
claim would need to be backed by a serious study.

Also, as Ubuntu seems to be the point of focus for this comparison, I
would rather add their users rather than setting them in a separate
count. I have prepared packages and fixed bug in Debian for Ubuntu
users, and I guess I am not the only one on this list.


> The next DPL should have a solid plan for reversing Debian's decline.
> If this means that some architectures fall by the wayside for lack of
> interest then so be it.  Better to lose several 0.1% architectures
> than for Debian as a whole to continue the slide towards irrelevance.

I think this is a confrontational presentation of the problem because it
supposes that there must be a loser. While I also think that trying to
build the whole Universal Operating Sytem on non-universal hardware is a
source of unnecessary and unrewarded stress and efforts, I feel that the
way to ameliorate Debian is to make its internal processes more
fault-tolerant, which is the exact contrary of dropping an arch.

Have a nice day,

-- 
Charles


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Re: Package: splix

[Patrick]

Hello Jeroen,

I asked pkg-cups for joining in order to package cups-ddk aswell. Since 
I am not a DD myself, it'd be kind if you sponsored the new splix 
package once I am done.



regards,
Patrocl

Jeroen van Wolffelaar wrote:

On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 06:59:01PM +0100, Patrick Ringl wrote:
  

Hello,

the last upload of that package was at the beginning of 2007 - meanwhile 
there have been 4 upstream releases since that time. I'd like to know 
what happened to the package and in case the maintainer is not 
responding in time, and if nobody objects - I'd like to take the package 
over.



Go ahead, I added it because I own such printer, but the bugs that were
reported were with different models I could not test myself. The
upstream package 1.0.1-1 unfortunately was missing some generated files,
I'm not sure whether that's fixed now (and cups-ddk, #468911, was not
packaged back then, so I couldn't do the stuff the Debian way).

If you'd also be able to get cups-ddk in, to make the package more like
the Debian way and regenerate all generated files, that'd be extra great.

Thanks,
--Jeroen

  



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Re: A suggestion

[Ondrej Certik]

On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 2:38 PM, Charles Plessy
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello,
>
>  Le Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 08:35:51AM -0700, Mike Bird a écrit :
>
> >
>  > Debian is losing users and relevance.
>
>  This does not match the results of the "popcon" survey. It could be
>  that Debian would gain users slower than other distributions, but this
>  claim would need to be backed by a serious study.
>
>  Also, as Ubuntu seems to be the point of focus for this comparison, I
>  would rather add their users rather than setting them in a separate
>  count. I have prepared packages and fixed bug in Debian for Ubuntu
>  users, and I guess I am not the only one on this list.
>
>
>
>  > The next DPL should have a solid plan for reversing Debian's decline.
>  > If this means that some architectures fall by the wayside for lack of
>  > interest then so be it.  Better to lose several 0.1% architectures
>  > than for Debian as a whole to continue the slide towards irrelevance.
>
>  I think this is a confrontational presentation of the problem because it
>  supposes that there must be a loser. While I also think that trying to
>  build the whole Universal Operating Sytem on non-universal hardware is a
>  source of unnecessary and unrewarded stress and efforts, I feel that the
>  way to ameliorate Debian is to make its internal processes more
>  fault-tolerant, which is the exact contrary of dropping an arch.


Exactly. Debian is doing well.

Ondrej

Re: link trade with good blogs

[ankit gupta]

hi

On 3/27/08, This is Naren Sharma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Anyone interested to exchange links with my following  blogs..
> http://narendrasharma.wordpress.com/
> http://imatemobiles.wordpress.com
> http://mobileforfune.wordpress.com/
>
> let me know if anyone interested!
>
> Narendra
>


-- 
ankit


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Re: A suggestion

[Lennart Sorensen]

On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 08:35:51AM -0700, Mike Bird wrote:
> The OP makes an important point.  Debian is losing users and relevance.
> Although Debian supports a wider range of architectures than Ubuntu,
> the reality is that Debian now targets a much narrower audience - the
> "old hardware crowd".
> 
> Popcon[0] records 97% of hits from just the i386 and amd64 architectures,
> yet packages are frequently delayed for weeks or even months while
> architectures enjoying 0.1% popcon scores struggle to catch up.
> 
> Lenny is still only at linux kernel 2.6.22, which means little support
> for hardware up to a year old!  Sid is not suitable for most people,
> and most people lack the skills or inclination to install and maintain
> a mix of Lenny and Sid.
> 
> Stable has linux kernel 2.6.18, which means little support for hardware
> up to two years old, and six months still to go before the next version.
> 
> Ubuntu has a much better handle on the issue of producing timely
> releases, but Ubuntu is also quirky and very much "my way or the
> highway".  I would hate to be unable to continue using Debian.
> 
> The next DPL should have a solid plan for reversing Debian's decline.
> If this means that some architectures fall by the wayside for lack of
> interest then so be it.  Better to lose several 0.1% architectures
> than for Debian as a whole to continue the slide towards irrelevance.

Part of what is making Debian relevant is that it does support so many
architectures so consistently.  Debian aims to be complete and as good
as possible.  Ubuntu aims to do most things for most people, and who
cares about the rest.  This makes Ubuntu a subset of Debian, and hence
much easier to maintain.  If Ubuntu serves you better, go ahead and use
that.  Many debian developers work on both Ubuntu and Debian as far as I
can tell, and it seems to be improving lots of things for both systems.
I would hate to see Debian drop stuff just because the majority of users
find it inconvinient to be delayed at times by the minority.  Often the
delays caused by other architectures cause bugs to be found and fixed
that would otherwise have gone unnoticed for much longer.

It does seem that some architectures are being demoted to second class
in future releases, so perhaps you will get your wish at some point.

Remember that what you consider "my way or the highway" in Ubuntu is
very much what would be happening if the x86 crown gets to ditch the
other architectures in Debian because they slow things down.

-- 
Len Sorensen


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Re: A suggestion

[Josselin Mouette]

On mer, 2008-03-26 at 08:35 -0700, Mike Bird wrote:
> Lenny is still only at linux kernel 2.6.22, which means little support
> for hardware up to a year old!  Sid is not suitable for most people,
> and most people lack the skills or inclination to install and maintain
> a mix of Lenny and Sid.

Testing is not suitable for desktop use. It lags in bug and security
fixes. It has often incompatible versions of pieces of software meant to
work together. As you noticed, it has an outdated kernel.

Except during freeze periods, you shouldn’t use testing on your desktop.
If you want a bleeding edge desktop, you have sid.

-- 
 .''`.
: :' :  We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code.
`. `'   We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to
  `-our own. Resistance is futile.


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Re: A suggestion

[Romain Beauxis]

Le Wednesday 26 March 2008 16:35:51 Mike Bird, vous avez écrit :
> The next DPL should have a solid plan for reversing Debian's decline.
> If this means that some architectures fall by the wayside for lack of
> interest then so be it.  Better to lose several 0.1% architectures
> than for Debian as a whole to continue the slide towards irrelevance.

It seems that you are mixing two issues.
One is the popularity of the system, the other is its quality and relevance.

So, yes debian "loses" users in the way that they go to Ubuntu, and then claim 
that it fits better than Debian.

Most of them are newbies that like the "plug and play" ubuntu way of designing 
the system. Fine, I'm even agruing in favour of Ubuntu for my friends that 
don't know much about Linux.

But I didn't choose to use Debian because it was more easy to install or 
because it had the latest 3D desktop fancy effects ready to use. At the time 
I first tried Debian, the installer would ask you to choose your network card 
kernel module, and for a true beginer, this was really not easy ;-)

I came to Debian because it is a general system, and because the community is 
able to choose for quality and technical things instead of meeting a 
deadline, or being the most appealing.

I'm sorry to say it like that, but I really don't care that Debian be the most 
used distribution on the universe. Really. 
Instead, I rather prefer a general system, even with old piece of software, 
but for which we all focus on quality, or software licences etc..

For instance, with all its releases, and backports in every directions, I 
don't really see how Ubuntu can be reliable in security. Being the maintainer 
of some webapps, for which security issues hapen often, I am sure that they 
didn't fixed each of them, simply because they have a different version in 
each release, and no security backports for each.

Now, about the social aspects, I also believe that Ubuntu plays a completly 
complementary role with Debian. In particular, the career of a linux user 
would be to start with Ubuntu. Easy to install, easy to use.
Then, if the user wants to get to know more the system, at some point it will 
have to get to know Debian, since it's the backbone of Ubuntu.

So, instead of "loosing" users, Debian simply attract less beginers, but will 
likely get experimented users that want to contribute and get to know the 
system. If, for instance, you look on the overall quality of users 
documentation and comments in Ubuntu forums, I'm often very thankfull we 
don't have such.

Then, it's very important for this to work well that we don't fork with 
Ubuntu. In particular, packaging or system standards should remain common, or 
at least very similar. Also, Ubuntu wouldn't have so many package if they 
couldn't backports ours, so this is also important for them.


Romain
-- 
If you are the big tree,
We are the small axe,
Ready to cut you down,
Sharpen to cut you down...

dpkg triggers, dpkg hijack

[Ian Jackson]

Since my semi-hijack on the 9th of March, Guillem has been hard at
work repainting the bikeshed.  He's been reorganising the changes
between pre- and post-triggers dpkg into a different series of patches
and no doubt reformatting the code too.

I'm sure we'll all agree that this work is all vital.  It is essential
that the bikeshed is painted according to this baroque and
multicoloured masterpiece (which Guillem is putting lots of time into)
rather than my plain shade of dull brown (finished months ago).

The bikeshed colour scheme is obviously more important than:
  * Triggers
  * Breaks support in dselect
  * Numerous bugfixes

All of which could have been uploaded weeks ago if the ftpmasters
were willing not to stand in the way of my hijack. [1]

The bikeshed colour scheme is also more important than:
  * Time for package maintainers to deploy triggers
  * Time for testing the new triggers functionality

That work could have started seven months ago if they had been able
to stomach my rather boring shade of brown.

I apologise for boring everyone with this again.  But it has been two
more weeks and Guillem is still nowhere near finishing his artwork.
There has also been no effort by Guillem or Raphael to negotiate with
me; they have ignored my postings to debian-dpkg.

Ian.

[1] The package, 1.15.2, is still available here:
 http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ian/dpkg/
It's all ready and signed and everything.  All that is needed is for
someone to ftp it to incoming, and for the ftpmasters to accept it.


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Re: dpkg triggers, dpkg hijack

[Josselin Mouette]

On jeu, 2008-03-27 at 19:23 +, Ian Jackson wrote:
> I apologise for boring everyone with this again.

Good. Please stop doing it then.

-- 
 .''`.
: :' :  We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code.
`. `'   We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to
  `-our own. Resistance is futile.


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Re: dpkg triggers, dpkg hijack

[Faidon Liambotis]

Ian Jackson wrote:


I apologise for boring everyone with this again.  But it has been two
more weeks and Guillem is still nowhere near finishing his artwork.
There has also been no effort by Guillem or Raphael to negotiate with
me; they have ignored my postings to debian-dpkg.
If I was approached with the same aggressive tone that I'm seeing in 
your mails here, I'd ignore you too.


Your work may be technically sound but you really need to improve your 
communication skills.


In your position, I'd probably be afraid of receiving the "Joerg 
Schilling award".


Also, I'm waiting for your proposals (or even actions!) for resolving 
the problems that the Technical Committee is facing, as you previously 
mentioned.
You are, after all, the oldest member of the commitee and the only one 
that ignored its existence because of those "problems", so far.


Regards,
Faidon


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Re: dpkg triggers, dpkg hijack

[Julien BLACHE]

Faidon Liambotis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> In your position, I'd probably be afraid of receiving the "Joerg
> Schilling award".

The "Sven Luther award" may be more appropriate; time will tell.

JB.

-- 
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 Public key available on  - KeyID: F5D6 5169 
 GPG Fingerprint : 935A 79F1 C8B3 3521 FD62 7CC7 CD61 4FD7 F5D6 5169 


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Re: dpkg triggers, dpkg hijack

[Romain Beauxis]

Le Thursday 27 March 2008 21:54:24 Julien BLACHE, vous avez écrit :
> Faidon Liambotis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > In your position, I'd probably be afraid of receiving the "Joerg
> > Schilling award".
>
> The "Sven Luther award" may be more appropriate; time will tell.

Can you stop posting such irrelevant and provocative mails ?


Romain
-- 
The rich man's wealth is his strong city: 
the destruction of the poor is their poverty.
 - Proverbs 10:15
The rich man's wealth is in the city
 Vexation of the soul is vanity
 Destruction of the poor is their poverty
 - Peter Tosh, Fools Die

Bug#473038: ITP: indywiki -- visual Wikipedia browser

[Serafeim Zanikolas]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Serafeim Zanikolas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: indywiki
  Version : 0.9.8
  Upstream Author : Markos Gogoulos <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Serafeim Zanikolas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://indywiki.sf.net/
* License : GPL
  Programming Lang: Python
  Description : visual Wikipedia browser

 Indywiki provides a visually-driven and intuitive way of browsing Wikipedia.
 Indywiki's window is split in two parts, one with images related to the
 current topic, and another with text and links from the current page.
 Images are selected from the current page, the pages pointed to by the
 current one (forward links), and the pages that point to the current one
 (back-links). The text of the current page is presented one paragraph at a
 time, and the page's links are shown in a single list.
 .
 In Indywiki, one browses wikipedia by selecting either text links or images
 (the latter leads to the wiki page that contains the selected image).
 .
 Indywiki is not recommended for use with low-speed Internet connections, as
 it downloads many images per page.


-- System Information:
Debian Release: lenny/sid
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable')
Architecture: i386 (i686)

Kernel: Linux 2.6.24-1-686 (SMP w/1 CPU core)
Locale: LANG=en_GB.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=el_GR.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash



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Bug#473039: ITP: python-nodebox-web -- collection of web-related Python modules

[Serafeim Zanikolas]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Serafeim Zanikolas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: python-nodebox-web
  Version : 1.9.2
  Upstream Author : Tom De Smedt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://nodebox.net/code/index.php/Web/
* License : GPL
  Programming Lang: Python
  Description : collection of web-related Python modules

 Offers a collection of Python modules to retrieve content from the Internet.
 You can use the library to query Yahoo! for links, images, news and spelling
 suggestions, to read RSS and Atom newsfeeds, to retrieve articles from
 Wikipedia, to collect quality images from morgueFile or Flickr, to get color
 themes from kuler or Colr, to browse through HTML documents, to clean up
 HTML, to validate URLs, to create GIF images from math equations using
 mimeTeX, to get ironic word definitions from Urban Dictionary.
 .
 The library uses a caching mechanism that stores things you download from the
 web, so they can be retrieved faster the next time. Many of the services also
 work asynchronously.

 This package is required by indywiki (see ITP #473038).

-- System Information:
Debian Release: lenny/sid
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable')
Architecture: i386 (i686)

Kernel: Linux 2.6.24-1-686 (SMP w/1 CPU core)
Locale: LANG=en_GB.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=el_GR.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash



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Bug#473045: ITP: kwwidgets -- Cross-Platform GUI Toolkit

[Dominique Belhachemi]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Dominique Belhachemi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


* Package name: kwwidgets
  Version : 1.1.0
  Upstream Author : ...
* URL : http://www.kwwidgets.org/
* License : BSD-style open-license http://www.kitware.com/Copyright.htm
  Programming Lang: C++,
  Description : Cross-Platform GUI Toolkit

KWWidgets is a free, cross-platform and open-license GUI Toolkit.


-- System Information:
Debian Release: lenny/sid
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable')
Architecture: i386 (i686)

Kernel: Linux 2.6.24-1-686 (SMP w/1 CPU core)
Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash



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Bug#473044: ITP: teem -- Tools to process and visualize scientific data and images

[Dominique Belhachemi]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Dominique Belhachemi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


* Package name: teem
  Version : 1.10.0
  Upstream Author : Gordon Kindlmann
* URL : http://teem.sourceforge.net/
* License : LGPL
  Programming Lang: C
  Description : Tools to process and visualize scientific data and images

Teem is a coordinated group of libraries for representing, processing, 
and visualizing scientific raster data. Teem includes command-line tools 
that permit the library functions to be quickly applied to files and 
streams, without having to write any code. The most important and useful 
libraries in Teem are:

* Nrrd (and the unu command-line tool on top of it) supports a range of 
operations for transforming N-dimensional raster data (resample, crop, slice, 
project, histogram, etc.), as well as the NRRD file format for storing arrays 
and their meta-information.
* Gage: fast convolution-based measurements at arbitrary point locations in 
volume datasets (scalar, vector, tensor, etc.)
* Mite: a multi-threaded ray-casting volume render with transfer functions 
based on any quantity Gage can measure
* Ten: for estimating, processing, and visualizing diffusion tensor fields, 
including fiber tractography methods. 


-- System Information:
Debian Release: lenny/sid
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable')
Architecture: i386 (i686)

Kernel: Linux 2.6.24-1-686 (SMP w/1 CPU core)
Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash



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Package: splix

[Patrick Ringl]

Hello,

the last upload of that package was at the beginning of 2007 - meanwhile 
there have been 4 upstream releases since that time. I'd like to know 
what happened to the package and in case the maintainer is not 
responding in time, and if nobody objects - I'd like to take the package 
over.



regards,
Patrick


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Re: Returned mail: see transcript for details

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Re: Service stopping in prerm considered harmful

[Ed Falk]

For the nth time squared, an initscript MUST NOT FAIL to stop an already
stopped service.


How is it supposed to do that? The service isn't running, so can't be
stopped, therefore the script (if called to stop it) can only fail to stop
it...


If the service is already stopped, then the script should declare 
victory and return.  Am I missing something?  Clearly the purpose of a 
prerm script is to ensure that the service is not running so that it's 
safe to remove the software.  If the service is already not running, 
that sounds like it meets the criteria to me.



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Re: RFC: preventing accidental deletion of system directories

[Ben Hutchings]

On Sun, 2008-03-23 at 18:54 +0100, Milan P. Stanic wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 04:55:52PM +, Lesley Binks wrote:
> > In *nix based systems rm has always meant rm - deleting files does just 
> > that.
> > The KDE Desktop provides the option to keep this functionality or have
> > temporary trash can on the desktop.  However, you don't get the option
> > of a trashcan on the command line - unless you want to write your own
> > script for it.
> 
> There were some libraries which can be "activated" with LD_PRELOAD.


Even "better": add them to /etc/ld.so.preload and they apply
system-wide.

I would say filesystem snapshots are the neatest way to allow undoing
deletion, though.

Ben.

-- 
Ben Hutchings
Teamwork is essential - it allows you to blame someone else.


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Bug#473066: ITP: xfmpc -- graphical GTK+ MPD client

[Mike Massonnet]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Mike Massonnet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

 * Package name : xfmpc
 * Version  : 0.0.4
 * Upstream Author  : Mike Massonnet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 * URL  : http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfmpc
 * Licence  : GPLv2 or later
 * Programming Lang : C
 * Description  : graphical GTK+ MPD client
 
Xfmpc is a MPD client with focus on low footprint for the Xfce desktop
environment.



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Re: Installation of suggested packages: recursive or not?

[Charles Plessy]

> > Le Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 08:13:30AM -0700, Daniel Burrows a écrit :
> > >   BTW, aptitude already supports non-recursively installing Suggests, and
> > > flagging them as manual at the same time: "~Rsuggests:^package$" will
> > > install everything that's directly suggested by "package".

> On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 02:21:52PM +0900, Charles Plessy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> was heard to say:
> > Do you think that there could be an option
> > that does the same except that the package would be flagged "auto" ?

Le Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 08:03:27AM -0700, Daniel Burrows a écrit :
>   There could be.  In fact, you can get it now:
> 
>   "~Rsuggests:^package$+M"  (the "+M" means "install it and mark it
> automatic")
> 
>   On the other hand, resurrecting "--with-suggests" would be a more
> friendly way of doing this.  I think I would add a sanity-check to force
> you to turn on "SuggestsImportant" in the config file first: if you
> don't, the newly installed packages will be unused and the installs will
> be immediately canceled.


Hi again,

on a second thought, I think that it would be better to have the suggested
package installed by --with-suggests to be flagged "manual" than to require
the user to switch the behaviour of the whole system to
"SuggestsImportant".

For my original problem, another solution would simply to provide a
metapackage that recommends the original package plus everything it
suggests. 

Have a nice day,

-- 
Charles Plessy
http://charles.plessy.org
Wakō, Saitama, Japan


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