Re: new host key?: Re: compromise of gluck.debian.org, lock down of other debian.org machines

[Brian May]

> "Osamu" == Osamu Aoki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Osamu> Hi, Are you sure it is Debian gluck issue?

It was working fine all the time up and until the compromise of
gluck.debian.org.

I haven't made any changes to the software on this computer, except to
install the odd security fix.

(I don't think any security fixes recently were for ssh either).

So, from my point of view, it would appear to be a gluck problem.

Hmmm. but it works fine from my Etch system.

So maybe something has changed on gluck to break connections from ssh
in sarge?

(note: I am using ssh-krb5 - not that should matter - it authenticated
OK).

This is weird. Maybe I will need to experiment more.

Osamu> It looks like gluck's new SSH uses new host identification.

Osamu> I got following message when I connected with ssh -v ...
Osamu> @@@
Osamu> @ WARNING: REMOTE HOST IDENTIFICATION HAS CHANGED!  @
Osamu> @@@
Osamu> IT IS POSSIBLE THAT SOMEONE IS DOING SOMETHING NASTY!

Osamu> After removing old entries from ~/.ssh/known_hosts, I can
Osamu> update host key and login.

Yes, I got that.

Osamu> PS: It would have been nicer if old hosk identification was
Osamu> backuped and used in new system.

They may have been concerned that the old host identification had been
compromised, if so, changing it is the only thing they could do.
-- 
Brian May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: Bug#380388: ITP: toga2 -- computer chess engine, calculates chess moves

[oliver]

At Saturday 29 July 2006 22:15 wrote Henning Makholm:
> Scripsit Oliver Korff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> >   Description : computer chess engine, calculates chess moves
>
> We seem to have several such engines already. Could the description
> please say something that distinguishes this from the other ones?

In the short description? Difficult, I could mention a "chess strength" of 
2700 ELO, but would have to describe ELO. And I will get a discussion about 
how I get to this number.

What do you think?

> > This is one of the strongest chess programs on the planet.
> > Hell of an opponent and stronger than 90% of the commercial
> > chess engines.
>
> Would X% of Debian's other free chess engines not be a more relevant
> comparison?

You are right, its definetly the stongest engine in debian now.

> --
> Henning Makholm "sh: line 1: fortune: command not
> found"

-- 
-
ALPHA: Software undergoes alpha testing as a first step in getting
user feedback. Alpha is Latin for "doesn't work."
-


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Re: lilypond and python

[Loïc Minier]

On Sat, Jul 29, 2006, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> Actually, I didn't make those "packaging mistakes"; the previous
> maintainer did.

 « "The previous maintainer did the mistakes" is the refrain of people
 who don't want to fix their packages. »   :-P

> You seem to think this is a battle, in which there is a winner and a
> loser.  I don't.

 You seem to read my brain.  Seriously, WTF are you writing?

> >  I heard from multiple sources that the problem with the new upstream
> >  release was not at all caused by the default python version -- as you
> >  claimed -- but either by a higher guile requirement.
> No, it requires *both* the newer Python *and* the newer Guile.

 I wrote "the default python version", and I maintain that my original
 fix would work with the new upstream release.

> You
> are not paying attention.  You are instead trying to get by with
> minimal understanding, proclaiming how deficient I am, reporting so
> far *three* bugs, one of which is not a bug, and the other two of
> which are *clearly* wishlist items; indeed, in one of the reports
> *you yourself* indicate that it's a wishlist item.  Grow up.

 COUNTER-RETORT.

 Basically, my remarks match those in the complete report of Pierre
 Habouzit in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> which you didn't
 reply to except to claim that you were already knew about the guile
 issue (yet you failed to mention it!).

 Since my messages are not bringing anything new to the discussion and
 will end up only bashing you over and over, I'll stop my contribution
 to this thread.

PS: I cut the obvious personal attacks out of your messages; I suggest
you take a break and stop calling people names.
-- 
Loïc Minier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: lilypond and python

[Loïc Minier]

On Sat, Jul 29, 2006, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> > So what? If you know how to fix that issue, then why don't you upload a
> > package based on Pierre's work with the fix? Why don't you do it RIGHT
> > NOW and get DONE with this madness?
> I don't know a fix for that issue except to use Guile 1.8.

 Why do you insist on not fixing e.g. the gcc build failure right now
 with the version in Debian which builds with the guile in Debian and
 the default python in Debian?

 When this thread started, you had decided to bind the fix with the new
 upstream release and you had blocked the new upstream release with the
 switch of the default Python version.  Now you're also blocking this
 new upstream release with a major new guile version.

-- 
Loïc Minier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Debian architectures, according to popularity-contest

[Petter Reinholdtsen]

It has been a while since I reported the architecture distribution in
Debian, as reported by popularity-contest.  The raising star is 'arm',
now used by 1.3% of the population.  'alpha' and 'sparc' continue to
drop.  Here are the numbers.  You can find the details on
http://popcon.debian.org/>.

  11678  86.35% i386
   1106   8.18% amd64
223   1.65% powerpc
181   1.34% arm
117   0.87% sparc
 50   0.37% alpha
 42   0.31% hppa
 32   0.24% ia64
 27   0.20% mipsel
 20   0.15% armeb
 12   0.09% mips
 12   0.09% kfreebsd-i386
  9   0.07% hurd-i386
  6   0.04% s390
  5   0.04% m68k
  2   0.01% i486
  1   0.01% ppc64
  1   0.01% kfreebsd-amd64
  13524 100.00% total (ignored 325 without arch info)

The 325 machines without arch info are most likely running
Debian/Woody or earlier versions of debian.

If you want to help the Debian project to get a more accurate view on
the architectures used, make sure your machines have the
popularity-contest package installed and enabled.  The reported data
is also used to decide which packages go into which installation CD,
so you will increase the chance that the packages important to you are
available on the first CD as well.

Friendly,
-- 
Petter Reinholdtsen


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Re: Bug#380328: ITP: pdfcrack -- PDF files password cracker

[Neil McGovern]

On Sat, Jul 29, 2006 at 12:02:37PM +0200, Nacho Barrientos Arias wrote:
> * Package name: pdfcrack
> 
[snip]
> This software uses xpdf/poppler stuff (categorized as free).
> 

Hi there,

Does this use xpdf or poppler? :)
poppler is a fork of xpdf which allows dynamic linking, so is much
preferred from a security-support POV.

Neil
-- 
A. Because it breaks the logical sequence of discussion
Q. Why is top posting bad?
gpg key - http://www.halon.org.uk/pubkey.txt ; the.earth.li B345BDD3


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Re: lilypond and python

[Pierre Habouzit]

Le dim 30 juillet 2006 07:21, Thomas Bushnell BSG a écrit :

> No, it requires *both* the newer Python 

  pure speculation, upstream *AND* users on the list, claim it works 
with python2.3. so stop with that, it's tiresome.

> *and* the newer Guile.

  In another mail <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, you said:

Le dim 30 juillet 2006 07:19, Thomas Bushnell BSG a écrit :
> Josselin Mouette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Thomas Bushnell BSG a écrit :
> > > Pierre Habouzit <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > >   it seems that guile 1.6.8 is buggy. people reported to have
> > > > build lilypond with guile 1.6.7 and/or guile-1.8 correctly. And
> > > > I suppose *HERE* is the real problem, […]
> > >
> > > Actually, way ahead of you on that.
> >
> > So what? If you know how to fix that issue, then why don't you
> > upload a package based on Pierre's work with the fix? Why don't you
> > do it RIGHT NOW and get DONE with this madness?
>
> I don't know a fix for that issue except to use Guile 1.8.

  So just to be clear, guile wont be fixed magically, Especially if you 
don't know guile/scheme... And what "surprises[1]" me is that the first 
public problem that you reported about that, was on the lilypond-devel 
mail list[2], in a mail that is 4h before mine on -devel (So I suppose 
that in American english far ahead is 4h before, I will keep that in 
mind in the future).

  So far, I've seen *no* bug report on guile from you. Because people 
reported to have it compile in 1.6.7 (I've found that in many posts on 
lylipond-* lists) and since it compiles with 1.8 it seems that it's a 
guile regression, so that it means that it can obviously be fixed in a 
1.6.8 version. But that won't happen if you don't open a bug. Bug that 
(and I won't make a new explanation of that, I already did) you should 
have open *MONTHES* ago.



 [1] actually not that much sadly…

 [2] http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2006-07/msg00133.html

-- 
·O·  Pierre Habouzit
··O[EMAIL PROTECTED]
OOOhttp://www.madism.org


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Re: new host key?: Re: compromise of gluck.debian.org, lock down of other debian.org machines

[Brian May]

> "Brian" == Brian May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Brian> (note: I am using ssh-krb5 - not that should matter - it
Brian> authenticated OK).

Brian> This is weird. Maybe I will need to experiment more.

I just tried the standard ssh in sarge, and get the same results.
-- 
Brian May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: Debian architectures, according to popularity-contest

[Török Edvin]

On 7/30/06, Petter Reinholdtsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


If you want to help the Debian project to get a more accurate view on
the architectures used, make sure your machines have the
popularity-contest package installed and enabled.  The reported data
is also used to decide which packages go into which installation CD,
so you will increase the chance that the packages important to you are
available on the first CD as well.


Afaik popularity-contest uses access-time to report statistics. Will
it report correct statistics if I have all of my partitions mounted
with -o noatime?
Does it also consider for example how often I upgrade a package?

Best regards,
Edwin


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Re: cdrtools

[Joerg Schilling]

Anthony DeRobertis wrote:

>Erast Benson wrote:
>>
>> I do not need to make the build system 
>> available under GPL (GPL §3 requires me to make it available but does
>> not mention a license) 

>GPL 3(a) requires the "complete corresponding source code [be]
>distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above". GPL 3
>defines the source code to include the "the scripts used to control
>compilation and installation of the executable."

Again a person who tries to bend the GPL to his wishes..


You should better _read_ the GPL and try to understand it.

GPL §2 defines what the "work" is and requres to publish the whole 
work under the GPL in case that that work incorporates other 
peoples work under GPL. (*)

The GPL allows to publish "the scripts used to control 
compilation and installation of the executable." under _any_ license
as the scripts are not part of the "work".

Note it is unclear whether the makefiles could be called "scripts"
and that in case of cdrtools, the build system is even a _different_ 
"work" that has been published _before_ the first cdrecord came out.



*) It does not even require to publish the whole work under the GPL 
in case that you add code to a GPL project! In this case the added
code may under _any_ license (even Closed source).


AGAIN: If you like to understant/interpret a contract like the GPL,
you need to read it carefully word by word and are not allowed to 
add claims that are not written in the GPL.

Jörg

-- 
 EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
   [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni)  
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
 URL:  http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily


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Re: Bug#380328: ITP: pdfcrack -- PDF files password cracker

[Nacho Barrientos Arias]

Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 10:17:10 +0100
Neil McGovern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Sat, Jul 29, 2006 at 12:02:37PM +0200, Nacho Barrientos Arias wrote:
> > * Package name: pdfcrack
> > 
> [snip]
> > This software uses xpdf/poppler stuff (categorized as free).
> > 
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> Does this use xpdf or poppler? :)
> poppler is a fork of xpdf which allows dynamic linking, so is much
> preferred from a security-support POV.

Extracted from README file (upstream sources):

"Parts of pdfcrack.c and md5.c is derived/copied/inspired from
xpdf/poppler and are copyright 1995-2006 Glyph & Cog, LLC."

Nacho

-- 
Nacho Barrientos Arias <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
http://criptonita.com/~nacho


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Re: Why does Ubuntu have all the ideas?

[Stefano Zacchiroli]

On Sat, Jul 29, 2006 at 10:51:40AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> > Do you have examples of collaborative maintenance projects where the
> > "no one is responsible" part plays a role, making people willing to
> > go back to non-collaborative maintenance?
> Yes, there was a mention of it just this month on
>  #debian-devel. I am unwilling to  derail this thread with the merits
>  of the maintainer and package team's position in this instance by
>  naming names and bringing the affair into the limelight, but I can
>  send you excerpts of the log privately.

Yes, please do so.

Still, if all goes down to if DDs feel better about team maintenance
than individual maintenance, we can easily set up a poll and check the
numbers. As a figure it would be pretty interesting to me.

> It could go either way, of course, but I was referring to the
>  difference between due diligence of a group, as opposed to an
>  individual; potentially, a team is only as strong as the weakest
>  link.

That's nonsense. How do you support the "weakest link" argument? Teams
like we have in Debian do not work serially, and the contribution of all
involved members is not always required. The most common "bad" behaviour
of a DD is inertia, which comes and go for everyone of us. An inert DD
is in my picture of the situation the weakest link, but has no effect at
all on the resulting quality of a collaborative maintenance group.

Back again to my experiences: inert DDs come and go in projects, setting
up a good example of spontaneous turnover.

> On the other hand, the team may haul up a slacker lone
>  developer to higher standards. The point is, no one can say or
>  sure a priori which road shall be taken.

You are of course right here, but we can produce numbers (back to my
first argument here). Just ask DDs, IF---as I think---a vast majority of
people who moved from individual maintenance to group maintenance is
happy, IF the resulting quality of packages is not decreased, and IF
there is no similar majority of people happily moved in the other
direction THEN we have evidence that in practice collaborative
maintenance works better than individual.

At the point there would be no excuse for not pushing, as a best
practice, as a policy, as fallback, whathever, collaborative maintenance
more than we actually do.

Cheers.

-- 
Stefano Zacchiroli -*- Computer Science PhD student @ Uny Bologna, Italy
[EMAIL PROTECTED],debian.org,bononia.it} -%- http://www.bononia.it/zack/
If there's any real truth it's that the entire multidimensional infinity
of the Universe is almost certainly being run by a bunch of maniacs. -!-


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Re: Debian architectures, according to popularity-contest

[Petter Reinholdtsen]

[Török Edvin]
> Afaik popularity-contest uses access-time to report statistics.

That is not entirely true.  The installation count is collected using
dpkg -l.  The votes on the other hand are collected using atime, and
that is less accurate and should be taken with a grain of salt.

Because of this, the package ordering on the CDs are using the install
count and not the votes.

> Will it report correct statistics if I have all of my partitions
> mounted with -o noatime?

It will correctly report that the package is installed, but most
probably not report any votes from your machine.

> Does it also consider for example how often I upgrade a package?

Not directly, but it can be seen from the file update times.  See for
example
http://people.debian.org/~igloo/popcon-graphs/index.php?packages=ext2resize>,
and notice how 'old' and 'recent' jump up and down when people are
upgrading to a new version of the package.

Friendly,
-- 
Petter Reinholdtsen


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Re: Why does Ubuntu have all the ideas?

[Ricardo Mones]

  Hi Gustavo,

On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 10:57:27 -0300
Gustavo Noronha Silva <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Em Fri, 28 Jul 2006 18:55:26 +0200
> Fabio Tranchitella <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escreveu:
> 
> > If you need to apply a patch to one of my packages for a
> > non-critical bug in order to complete an integration work, please send
> > me the patch by BTS and if I do not reply in a few days feel free to
> > upload an NMU.
> > 
> > How many Debian maintainers think the same? I'm sure there are a
> > lot of them who do not soffer of the "this is my package, go away"
> > syndrome.
> 
> I do. I think there was a list being built listing the people who think
> alike in this issue?

  I think it has been mentioned before, anyway is worth to publicity it once
again:
 
  http://wiki.debian.org/LowThresholdNmu

  regards,
-- 
 Ricardo Mones
 http://people.debian.org/~mones
 «Change your thoughts and you change your world.»


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renaming network interfaces in udev

[Brian May]

Hello,

For some reason I thought it was considered bad to rename eth* to eth* using
udev (race conditions and such).

However, after upgrading my systems to etch, I notice they do just this,
by default:

--- cut ---
# This file was automatically generated by the /lib/udev/write_net_rules
# program, probably run by the persistent-net-generator.rules rules file.
#
# You can modify it, as long as you keep each rule on a single line.

# UNKNOWN device (/class/net/eth0)
SUBSYSTEM=="net", DRIVER=="?*", SYSFS{address}=="00:0b:2f:4e:31:65", NAME="eth0"

# UNKNOWN device (/class/net/eth1)
SUBSYSTEM=="net", DRIVER=="?*", SYSFS{address}=="00:0b:2f:6d:19:2b", NAME="eth1"

# UNKNOWN device (/class/net/eth2)
SUBSYSTEM=="net", DRIVER=="?*", SYSFS{address}=="00:11:06:00:00:00:4b:2f", 
NAME="eth2"
--- cut ---

Where eth0 is the only real network card on this system.

Unfortunately the above rules broke, and I ended up with eth0 being
not accessible. I only had eth0, and it wasn't the correct device.

I ended up renaming eth* in the above to net* and it works.

So I am really puzzled that the above is the default, because I
thought it was previously mentioned in this mailing list that you
cannot do the above due to race conditions or something.

Comments???

Although my system is working fine, I still get the following message on 
startup (at least last time I looked):

udevd_event: rename_net_if: error changing net interface name eth1_temp to 
eth0: timeout

which seems really confusing, IMHO.

Thanks for any advice.

Brian May


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Re: new host key?: Re: compromise of gluck.debian.org, lock down of other debian.org machines

[Brian May]

> "Brian" == Brian May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Brian> (note: I am using ssh-krb5 - not that should matter - it
Brian> authenticated OK).

Brian> This is weird. Maybe I will need to experiment more.

Brian> I just tried the standard ssh in sarge, and get the same
Brian> results.

My bad.

I suddenly remembered I put access restrictions on this ssh key in my
authorized_keys file at the remote host, so if someone somehow stole
my key used to download email they would be restricted in what they
can do.

Including no-pty.

A nice friendly message would have been nice though, as opposed to a
hanging connection :-(.

Thanks everyone who tried to help me.

Now getting my email again (in fact it was working all the time, but I
disabled the cron job when I saw interactive sessions weren't working
:-( ).
-- 
Brian May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Bug#380450: ITP: openser -- very fast and configurable SIP proxy

[Julien BLACHE]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Julien BLACHE <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: openser
  Version : 1.1.0
  Upstream Author : OpenSER contributors
* URL : http://www.openser.org
* License : GPL
  Programming Lang: C
  Description : very fast and configurable SIP proxy

 OpenSER is a very fast and flexible SIP (RFC3621)
 proxy server. Written entirely in C, OpenSER can handle thousands calls
 per second even on low-budget hardware.
 .
 C Shell-like scripting language provides full control over the server's
 behaviour. Its modular architecture allows only required functionality to be
 loaded.
 .
 Among others, the following modules are available: Digest Authentication, CPL
 scripts, Instant Messaging, MySQL support, Presence Agent, Radius
 Authentication, Record Routing, SMS Gateway, Jabber Gateway, Transaction
 Module, Registrar and User Location.


The package is maintained as part of the pkg-voip team.

Due to the lack of OpenSSL license exception, the official Debian packages
will not support TLS until this is fixed, but the build system supports
building TLS-enabled packages using the TLS source tarball provided by
upstream with no modification to the build scripts.

JB.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: testing/unstable
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable')
Architecture: powerpc (ppc)
Shell:  /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash
Kernel: Linux 2.6.16
Locale: LANG=C, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (charmap=ISO-8859-15)


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Re: renaming network interfaces in udev

[Marco d'Itri]

On Jul 30, Brian May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> For some reason I thought it was considered bad to rename eth* to eth* using
> udev (race conditions and such).
This was before 0.084-4.

> # UNKNOWN device (/class/net/eth0)
Interesting, can you try to debug why this happens?
It's only cosmetic, but unusual.

> Where eth0 is the only real network card on this system.
I think we can be positively sure that write_net_rules did not invent
these MAC addresses by itself, so if it created rules for eth0 and eth1
with two different MAC addresses there has to be a reason.
eth2 looks like a firewire interface.

> Unfortunately the above rules broke, and I ended up with eth0 being
> not accessible. I only had eth0, and it wasn't the correct device.
So I suppose that your current ethernet card was 00:0b:2f:6d:19:2b and
it was renamed to eth1?

> Comments???
Just asking the maintainer works too, I am not sure if this is a topic of
general interest. Send mail or look for me on IRC if you need more help.

-- 
ciao,
Marco


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Bug#380468: ITP: phpunit2 -- Unit testing suite for PHP5

[Bart Martens]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Bart Martens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: phpunit2
  Version : 2.3.6
  Upstream Author : Sebastian Bergmann
* URL : http://pear.php.net/package/PHPUnit2
* License : BSD
  Programming Lang: php
  Description : Unit testing suite for PHP5

PHPUnit is a regression testing framework used by the developer who
implements unit tests in PHP. This is the version to be used with PHP 5.

Note that phpunit is already in Debian, for use with php4.  This is just
a newer upstream release, phpunit2, for use with php5.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: testing/unstable
  APT prefers testing
  APT policy: (500, 'testing'), (499, 'unstable')
Architecture: i386 (i686)
Shell:  /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash
Kernel: Linux 2.6.15-1-686
Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)


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Re: Why does Ubuntu have all the ideas?

[Anthony Towns]

On Fri, Jul 28, 2006 at 11:49:07AM -0700, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 28, 2006 at 12:58:15PM -0400, Joey Hess wrote:
> > On Fri, Jul 28, 2006 at 08:38:23AM -0700, tony mancill wrote:
> > > For one, Debian and Ubuntu aren't in competition, [...]
> > When Ubuntu leads to users having ideas like the one in the parent post,
> > this is manifestly false.
> Rather than blaming Ubuntu, it's more constructive to educate the user
> community about the (useful) role that derivatives play.

Personally, I think it's fair to say Debian and Ubuntu are in
"competition" in some areas, and I don't think it's something to be
ashamed of on either side. Why shouldn't Ubuntu and Debian compete with
each other to better serve their users, both actual and potential? As
long as it's done in a cooperative manner, and with both of us willing to
share our successes with each other and learn from each others mistakes,
how is a bit of friendly competition anything but a good thing?

For comparison, debootstrap and cdebootstrap are "competing"
implementations of the same idea, and both try to win over users by
doing the same job better, according to various criteria. I don't think
cdebootstrap would've existed without debootstrap, and debootstrap's
certainly benefited from copying some of the features cdebootstrap has. I
think there's room enough for that sort of competition in Debian, and I
think there's room enough for derivatives to try competing with official
Debian releases in various manners too.

Cheers,
aj



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Re: Why does Ubuntu have all the ideas?

[George Danchev]

On Sunday 30 July 2006 15:34, Anthony Towns wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 28, 2006 at 11:49:07AM -0700, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> > On Fri, Jul 28, 2006 at 12:58:15PM -0400, Joey Hess wrote:
> > > On Fri, Jul 28, 2006 at 08:38:23AM -0700, tony mancill wrote:
> > > > For one, Debian and Ubuntu aren't in competition, [...]
> > >
> > > When Ubuntu leads to users having ideas like the one in the parent
> > > post, this is manifestly false.
> >
> > Rather than blaming Ubuntu, it's more constructive to educate the user
> > community about the (useful) role that derivatives play.
>
> Personally, I think it's fair to say Debian and Ubuntu are in
> "competition" in some areas, and I don't think it's something to be
> ashamed of on either side. Why shouldn't Ubuntu and Debian compete with
> each other to better serve their users, both actual and potential? As
> long as it's done in a cooperative manner, and with both of us willing to
> share our successes with each other and learn from each others mistakes,
> how is a bit of friendly competition anything but a good thing?

Nice theory, but what happens in the hypothetical example [1] when the same 
maintainer is responsible for the same package or set of packages in Debian 
and in Ubuntu (think other Debian-based distro too). Then his/her personal 
attitude (there is always such one) is certainly a factor in favaur of one or 
another distro. So, in that case I don't believe you can have whatever 
competition.

[1] well, I don't have numbers or fact, that is a merely an assumption

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Re: How to fix a disk problem/damaged file?

[Atsuhito Kohda]

On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 02:15:34 +0100, Stephen Gran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> First, I suggest this query is better for debian-user@lists.debian.org,
> since it is not related to general development issues.

Right, and I know it, sorry for that.

> Second, an I/O error trying to ls a file usually points to severe disk
> or file system corruption.  Make sure your backups are in good shape,
> and good luck.

Thanks for your help.

Regards,2006-7-30(Sun)
-- 
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 Atsuhito Kohda 
 Department of Math., Univ. of Tokushima


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Re: Bug#380388: ITP: toga2 -- computer chess engine, calculates chess moves

[Adam Borowski]

On Sun, Jul 30, 2006 at 01:01:56PM +0200, oliver wrote:
> At Saturday 29 July 2006 22:15 wrote Henning Makholm:
> > Scripsit Oliver Korff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >   Description : computer chess engine, calculates chess moves
> > We seem to have several such engines already. Could the description
> > please say something that distinguishes this from the other ones?
> 
> In the short description? Difficult, I could mention a "chess strength" of 
> 2700 ELO, but would have to describe ELO. And I will get a discussion about 
> how I get to this number.

I would say that for any literate enough person, the phrase "chess
strength of 2700 ELO" is self-descriptive.  It includes a number and
an unit of measure -- for those who do not know that unit, it is
named "chess strength".

So, adding anything more would be excess wordage.

-- 
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// A: It build-depends on equivs.


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Re: Why does Ubuntu have all the ideas?

[Matt Zimmerman]

On Sun, Jul 30, 2006 at 10:34:12PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 28, 2006 at 11:49:07AM -0700, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> > On Fri, Jul 28, 2006 at 12:58:15PM -0400, Joey Hess wrote:
> > > When Ubuntu leads to users having ideas like the one in the parent post,
> > > this is manifestly false.
> > Rather than blaming Ubuntu, it's more constructive to educate the user
> > community about the (useful) role that derivatives play.
> 
> Personally, I think it's fair to say Debian and Ubuntu are in
> "competition" in some areas, and I don't think it's something to be
> ashamed of on either side. Why shouldn't Ubuntu and Debian compete with
> each other to better serve their users, both actual and potential? As
> long as it's done in a cooperative manner, and with both of us willing to
> share our successes with each other and learn from each others mistakes,
> how is a bit of friendly competition anything but a good thing?
>
> For comparison, debootstrap and cdebootstrap are "competing"
> implementations of the same idea, and both try to win over users by doing
> the same job better, according to various criteria. I don't think
> cdebootstrap would've existed without debootstrap, and debootstrap's
> certainly benefited from copying some of the features cdebootstrap has. I
> think there's room enough for that sort of competition in Debian, and I
> think there's room enough for derivatives to try competing with official
> Debian releases in various manners too.


I agree with you that there is this kind of technological competition among
derivatives, and so long as it is all free software, Debian and its
derivatives all stand to gain from it.

I was objecting to Joey's assertion that "Ubuntu leads to users having ideas
like the one in the parent post".  The theme of the parent post was that
Debian doesn't care about the needs of its users.  I feel that this is an
inaccurate characterization, firstly, but it's unreasonable to blame Ubuntu
for a user getting this impression based on the fact that Ubuntu met their
individual needs better than Debian did.

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Re: Why does Ubuntu have all the ideas?

[George Danchev]

On Sunday 30 July 2006 16:21, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 30, 2006 at 10:34:12PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> > On Fri, Jul 28, 2006 at 11:49:07AM -0700, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> > > On Fri, Jul 28, 2006 at 12:58:15PM -0400, Joey Hess wrote:
> > > > When Ubuntu leads to users having ideas like the one in the parent
> > > > post, this is manifestly false.
> > >
> > > Rather than blaming Ubuntu, it's more constructive to educate the user
> > > community about the (useful) role that derivatives play.
> >
> > Personally, I think it's fair to say Debian and Ubuntu are in
> > "competition" in some areas, and I don't think it's something to be
> > ashamed of on either side. Why shouldn't Ubuntu and Debian compete with
> > each other to better serve their users, both actual and potential? As
> > long as it's done in a cooperative manner, and with both of us willing to
> > share our successes with each other and learn from each others mistakes,
> > how is a bit of friendly competition anything but a good thing?
> >
> > For comparison, debootstrap and cdebootstrap are "competing"
> > implementations of the same idea, and both try to win over users by doing
> > the same job better, according to various criteria. I don't think
> > cdebootstrap would've existed without debootstrap, and debootstrap's
> > certainly benefited from copying some of the features cdebootstrap has. I
> > think there's room enough for that sort of competition in Debian, and I
> > think there's room enough for derivatives to try competing with official
> > Debian releases in various manners too.
>
> I agree with you that there is this kind of technological competition among
> derivatives, and so long as it is all free software, Debian and its
> derivatives all stand to gain from it.

You can't have it both ways; it is either competition or cooperation. I tend 
to agree with your previous message that it is some sort of cooreration, 
since it is hard to compete with yourself being Debian and Ubuntu developer 
at the same time (well unless one is living in some sort of splitted 
personality ;-). ... or you claim that it is cooreration is some areas, and 
competition in others ?

> I was objecting to Joey's assertion that "Ubuntu leads to users having
> ideas like the one in the parent post".  The theme of the parent post was
> that Debian doesn't care about the needs of its users.  I feel that this is
> an inaccurate characterization, firstly, but it's unreasonable to blame
> Ubuntu for a user getting this impression based on the fact that Ubuntu met
> their individual needs better than Debian did.

Well I think that if Debian and Ubuntu draw conclusions from such users' 
input, then they both are in trouble. Such users has always existed and never 
been a factor AFAICT, as long as their input is not based on facts.

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Re: Why does Ubuntu have all the ideas?

[Manoj Srivastava]

On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 12:02:55 +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
said: 

> On Sat, Jul 29, 2006 at 10:51:40AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>> > Do you have examples of collaborative maintenance projects where
>> > the "no one is responsible" part plays a role, making people
>> > willing to go back to non-collaborative maintenance?
>> Yes, there was a mention of it just this month on
>> #debian-devel. I am unwilling to derail this thread with the merits
>> of the maintainer and package team's position in this instance by
>> naming names and bringing the affair into the limelight, but I can
>> send you excerpts of the log privately.

> Yes, please do so.

> Still, if all goes down to if DDs feel better about team maintenance
> than individual maintenance, we can easily set up a poll and check
> the numbers. As a figure it would be pretty interesting to me.

We do not vote for every decision there is --- and this does
 not boil down to the tyranny of the majority.  For my packages, it
 still remains just my decision --- unless you can get three quarters
 of the membership to decide to change the nature of Debian
 fundamentally. 

>> It could go either way, of course, but I was referring to the
>> difference between due diligence of a group, as opposed to an
>> individual; potentially, a team is only as strong as the weakest
>> link.

> That's nonsense.

No, it is merely lack of imagination.

> How do you support the "weakest link" argument?

One sucky member uploads a slightly flawed or untested
 version, and the flaw  is undetected until it hits testing and
 imapacts lots of people, or if the flaw is minor enough that no one
 uploads a new version --- the quality of implementation suffers.

> Teams like we have in Debian do not work serially, and the

So now we not only mandate teams, we also define how teams
 work?  The one team maintained package I am involved in seems to
 always work serially, so your statement is not universal anyway.

Anyway, we are getting nowhwere.  People who feel like forming
 team can. People who don't should not be forced into one.

[Snip a whole lot of stuff about how we should take a poll and
decide on a course of action based on majority opinion]

manoj
-- 
Age is a very high price to pay for maturity. George Carlin
Manoj Srivastava   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
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Re: Why does Ubuntu have all the ideas?

[Matt Zimmerman]

On Sun, Jul 30, 2006 at 05:17:22PM +0300, George Danchev wrote:
> On Sunday 30 July 2006 16:21, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> > I agree with you that there is this kind of technological competition among
> > derivatives, and so long as it is all free software, Debian and its
> > derivatives all stand to gain from it.
> 
> You can't have it both ways; it is either competition or cooperation. I tend 
> to agree with your previous message that it is some sort of cooreration, 
> since it is hard to compete with yourself being Debian and Ubuntu developer 
> at the same time (well unless one is living in some sort of splitted 
> personality ;-). ... or you claim that it is cooreration is some areas, and 
> competition in others ?

I don't think it's so simple.  It's difficult to characterize such a
relationship as purely competitive when everything we create is free to be
shared, and we're not playing a zero-sum game.

Is the user who prefers Ubuntu a loss to Debian?  I don't think so.  Is the
developer who prefers to contribute to Debian a loss to Ubuntu?  Certainly
not.  Are there developers who contribute to both Debian and Ubuntu, in
different ways?  Absolutely.  This doesn't mean that they're competing with
themselves, though their contributions to one may compete with others'
contributions to the other.

Debian will appeal to some more than Ubuntu, and vice versa.  They will
innovate in different ways and for different reasons.  Sometimes they will
choose different approaches to solve the same problem, and in this respect,
they are in competition.  In some cases, one of the approaches will be
proven superior overall, while in others, each will be better suited to its
parent.  This applies to social behaviour as well as to technological
pursuits.

The metaphor of an ecosystem is apt: in some areas of overlap, one strategy
will dominate, while in others, an equilibrium will develop.  The diversity
of the system is a source of strength, as it lends a resistance to attack
and starvation.

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Re: Bug#380388: ITP: toga2 -- computer chess engine, calculates chess moves

[Andreas Tille]

On Sun, 30 Jul 2006, oliver wrote:


You are right, its definetly the stongest engine in debian now.


So what we are obviousely lacking is a *nice* UI that enables
people like my father to use this engine.  Is anything out there
that might be more convinient than xboard?

If I missed something please make sure that the Recommends
lists those interfaces.

Kind regards

Andreas.

--
http://fam-tille.de


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Re: Why does Ubuntu have all the ideas?

[Stefano Zacchiroli]

On Sun, Jul 30, 2006 at 09:52:34AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> We do not vote for every decision there is --- and this does
>  not boil down to the tyranny of the majority.  For my packages, it
>  still remains just my decision --- unless you can get three quarters
>  of the membership to decide to change the nature of Debian
>  fundamentally. 

I'm not proposing to take any kind of decision, nor to force you to
co-maintain your packages with someone else.

Still, since you keep on using corner cases and ad-hoc built examples as
evidence of issues with team maintenance, I was just proposing to use a
poll to discover quantitatively how DDs feel about team maintenance on
the average. No more, no less.

> Anyway, we are getting nowhwere.

I agree on that and I will stop here.

-- 
Stefano Zacchiroli -*- Computer Science PhD student @ Uny Bologna, Italy
[EMAIL PROTECTED],debian.org,bononia.it} -%- http://www.bononia.it/zack/
If there's any real truth it's that the entire multidimensional infinity
of the Universe is almost certainly being run by a bunch of maniacs. -!-


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Re: Bug#380388: ITP: toga2 -- computer chess engine, calculates chess moves

[Steinar H. Gunderson]

On Sun, Jul 30, 2006 at 05:55:59PM +0200, Andreas Tille wrote:
> So what we are obviousely lacking is a *nice* UI that enables
> people like my father to use this engine.  Is anything out there
> that might be more convinient than xboard?

Perhaps one of these might be useful:

likevel:~> debtags grep 'game::board:chess && x11::application'
3dchess: game::board:chess, interface::3d, use::gameplaying, x11::application
eboard: game::board, game::board:chess, interface::x11, uitoolkit::gtk, 
use::gameplaying, x11::application
eboard-extras-pack1: game::board, game::board:chess, interface::x11, 
role::content:data, use::gameplaying, x11::application, x11::theme
gnuchess: game::board:chess, interface::text-mode, interface::x11, 
uitoolkit::ncurses, use::gameplaying, x11::application
xboard: game::board:chess, interface::x11, uitoolkit::athena, use::gameplaying, 
x11::application
xshogi: game::board, game::board:chess, interface::x11, uitoolkit::athena, 
use::gameplaying, x11::application
knights: game::board:chess, interface::x11, suite::kde, uitoolkit::qt, 
use::gameplaying, x11::application
scid: game::board, game::board:chess, interface::x11, uitoolkit::tk, 
use::gameplaying, x11::application

/* Steinar */
-- 
Homepage: http://www.sesse.net/


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Bug#65611: looking for you

[Alice]

Do not ignore me please,
I found your email somewhere and now decided to write you.
I am coming to your place in few weeks and thbougaht we 
can meet each other. Let me know if you do not mind.
I am a aniace pretty girl. Don't reply to this email. 
aEmail me direclty at [EMAIL PROTECTED]




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Re: cdrtools

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Sun, Jul 30, 2006 at 11:25:00AM +0200, Joerg Schilling wrote:
> Anthony DeRobertis wrote:
> >Erast Benson wrote:
> >> I do not need to make the build system 
> >> available under GPL (GPL §3 requires me to make it available but does
> >> not mention a license) 
> 
> >GPL 3(a) requires the "complete corresponding source code [be]
> >distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above". GPL 3
> >defines the source code to include the "the scripts used to control
> >compilation and installation of the executable."
> 
> Again a person who tries to bend the GPL to his wishes..

Gee, that sounds familiar somehow.

> You should better _read_ the GPL and try to understand it.

Good plan.

> GPL §2 defines what the "work" is and requres to publish the whole 
> work under the GPL in case that that work incorporates other 
> peoples work under GPL. (*)
> 
> The GPL allows to publish "the scripts used to control 
> compilation and installation of the executable." under _any_ license
> as the scripts are not part of the "work".

These scripts are referred to in GPL§3, not §2. So much for reading the
GPL.

GPL§3 clearly says what you may do when you distribute binary versions
of the Program, and gives you three options:

3a) accompany it with complete source code, to be distributed "under the
terms of Sections 1 and 2 above" (i.e., under the GPL);

3b) accompany it with a written offer to offer the source "under the
terms of Sections 1 and 2 above" (i.e., under the GPL);

3c) pass on an already existing written offer as defined in 3b), under
certain conditions

Additionally, it defines "source code" as follows:

===
The source code for a work means the preferred form of the work for
making modifications to it.  For an executable work, complete source
code means all the source code for all modules it contains, plus any
associated interface definition files, plus the scrips used to
control compilation and installation of the executable.[...]
===

I fail to see how your claim holds, given the above, but I'm willing to
be educated.

> Note it is unclear whether the makefiles could be called "scripts"

Unproven assertion.

> and that in case of cdrtools, the build system is even a _different_
> "work" that has been published _before_ the first cdrecord came out.

If you're referring to smake here, then I cannot help but disagree with
you.

Surely automake, GNU make, bash, and so on, were written before most of
the projects that use them. However, that does not mean that the build
system is a totally different "work"; the particular version of
configure.ac, Makefile.am/Makefile.in/Makefile, and any .sh scripts that
are part of the source tarball are part of the build system, even if the
interpreters that are used to run them are not.

In the same way, smake is indeed a different work, but the makefiles
that are shipped with cdrecord are not.

Am I missing something?

> *) It does not even require to publish the whole work under the GPL 
> in case that you add code to a GPL project! In this case the added
> code may under _any_ license (even Closed source).

Could you quote the part of the GPL on which you base this assertion? It
is not clear to me.

> AGAIN: If you like to understant/interpret a contract like the GPL,

The GPL is a license, not a contract.

> you need to read it carefully word by word and are not allowed to 
> add claims that are not written in the GPL.

Exactly.

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Re: Bug#380388: ITP: toga2 -- computer chess engine, calculates chess moves

[oliver]

At Sunday 30 July 2006 17:55 wrote Andreas Tille:
> On Sun, 30 Jul 2006, oliver wrote:
> > You are right, its definetly the stongest engine in debian now.
>
> So what we are obviousely lacking is a *nice* UI that enables
> people like my father to use this engine.  Is anything out there
> that might be more convinient than xboard?

Chess database program:

scid:  Shane's Chess Information Database is a chess database application with
 a graphical user interface.

knighs -- is a playing interface, its KDE but has nice graphics and you'll get 
themes for it at:

http://oko00.hostsharing.net/debian/unofficial/

> If I missed something please make sure that the Recommends
> lists those interfaces.

Think it should, but I'll check.

Thanks, 

Oliver
-- 
-
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7.0b1 error message
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Re: Bug#380388: ITP: toga2 -- computer chess engine, calculates chess moves

[Andreas Tille]

On Sun, 30 Jul 2006, Steinar H. Gunderson wrote:


Perhaps one of these might be useful:

likevel:~> debtags grep 'game::board:chess && x11::application'


Hmmm, not really.  I'm perfectly able to find all packages that
might be usefull to play chess under X.  The question was how my
father will be informed straigtforeward which interface is really
easy to use and works with toga2.

Remark: My father is a quite good chess player and his computer
skills are at a level where he is really happy if he finds his
e-mail, write and print a letter with OO and his most challenging
work on the computer fas to find a route from his home to
some relatives and print this. I'm perfectly convinced that
DebTags is great, but does not help for this kind of users.

Kind regards

  Andreas.

--
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Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

[martin f krafft]

Dear fellow developers,

As many of you know, I am conducting research on Debian,
specifically on how Debian developers adopt or reject new methods of
package maintenance. I would like to get a broad collection of data
for the first part of my research, which is the study of tools that
have been successfully adopted or which have been rejected (so to
speak) by the developer crowd.

While I already have a good selection, I am on the look for more.
Do you know of a good example of a tool that has successfully shaped
Debian development for a large number of people? Or do you remember
a tool that tried but horribly failed? Those are much harder to
find. :)

I have Reply-To set for fear of horrible flame wars when one DD
bashes another one's favourite tool, but I will make the results
public, obviously. Thus, I appreciate if you could take the time to
drop me a short note if you have an opinion on the matter.

I will be blogging about recent developments some time soon,
specifically about the change in direction of my research, so watch
[0] or just read the planet [1] if you are interested.

0. http://blog.madduck.net/phd
1. http://planet.debian.org

Thanks,

-- 
Please do not send copies of list mail to me; I read the list!
 
 .''`. martin f. krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
: :'  :proud Debian developer and author: http://debiansystem.info
`. `'`
  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing a system
 
"i have smoked pot. it is a stupid business, like masturbation."
 -- thomas pynchon


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Re: Bug#380468: ITP: phpunit2 -- Unit testing suite for PHP5

[Matthew Palmer]

On Sun, Jul 30, 2006 at 02:40:47PM +0200, Bart Martens wrote:
> Package: wnpp
> Severity: wishlist
> Owner: Bart Martens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> * Package name: phpunit2

*cough*330301*cough*

- Matt


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Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

[Michael Banck]

On Sun, Jul 30, 2006 at 09:39:26PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote:
> Do you know of a good example of a tool that has successfully shaped
> Debian development for a large number of people? 

CDBS and alioth/svn.debian.org.


HTH,

Michael


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Re: More dh_python questions

[Manoj Srivastava]

Hi,

I have a growing suspicion that dh_python does not do the
 right thing for private pure Python modules in the presence of
 XS-Python-version

This is how dh_python behaves:
*** PRIVATE PURE MODULE:
  If there is a .py file, and it is in a private dir. only one
  version is supported, even though the private module can be
  recompiled for any new version.  
Add dir to $private_dirs_list{"$dir"}  (for recompilation)
add to the deps var if no -V option is given.
* If versions_field is unset (so precedence goes to extensions), 
** if $min_version and min_version=max_version (1 version supported)
$versions_field = $min_version
** else $versions_field = current ?
or set $verdeps{X.Y} if only version X.Y is supported (-V)
* Each entry is in the verdeps hash gets added to depends
No pyversions_found.
**Set Versions to $versions_field

So, if I have a package with a private pure python module, and
 I have set XS-Python-Version to suggest that a ubset of python
 versions are supported, and I have not used -V (since more than one
 python version is to be supported).

What happens?
 Case A:
I have only one version in  XS-Python-Version (say, 2.4)
,
| Package: python-foo
| XB-Python-Version: X.Y
| Provides: pythonX.Y-foo
`
But the package does not depend on  pythonX.Y, which I think
it should (since we have stated that only X.Y is supported).

 Case B:
There is no lower bound, but there is an upper bound
,
| Package: python-foo
| XB-Python-Version: 2.3
| Provides: python2.3-foo
`

Hmm. I suppose this is OK, since if we do not support the
 current version,  we should not be uploading the package.

 Case C:
I have a range in the XS-Python-Version

 Case C1: The current version is not supported (say, I support 2.4
 and 2.5)
,
| Package: python-foo
| XB-Python-Version: 2.3
| Provides: python2.3-foo
`
This is wrong. 

 Case C2: The current version is supported
,
| Package: python-foo
| XB-Python-Version: 2.3
| Provides: python2.3-foo
`
This is OK as well.

So, I posit that dh_python, as currently coded, does not
 handle case A and C1 correctly.

manoj
-- 
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Manoj Srivastava   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
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Re: Debian architectures, according to popularity-contest

[Joey Hess]

Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:
> It has been a while since I reported the architecture distribution in
> Debian, as reported by popularity-contest.  The raising star is 'arm',
> now used by 1.3% of the population.  'alpha' and 'sparc' continue to
> drop.  Here are the numbers.  You can find the details on
> http://popcon.debian.org/>.

It's interesting to see arm increasing like this. I wonder which new arm
systems are responsible?

The nslu2's are an obvious candidate, and seem to account for a very
large chunk of the reporting machines:
~65 for linux-image-2.6.15-1-nslu2: 
http://people.debian.org/~igloo/popcon-graphs/index.php?packages=linux-image-2.6.15-1-nslu2&show_installed=on&show_vote=on&show_old=on&show_recent=on&show_nofiles=on&want_legend=on&beenhere=1

>   11678  86.35% i386
>1106   8.18% amd64
> 223   1.65% powerpc
> 181   1.34% arm
> 117   0.87% sparc
>  50   0.37% alpha
>  42   0.31% hppa
>  32   0.24% ia64
>  27   0.20% mipsel
>  20   0.15% armeb
>  12   0.09% mips
>  12   0.09% kfreebsd-i386
>   9   0.07% hurd-i386
>   6   0.04% s390
>   5   0.04% m68k
>   2   0.01% i486
>   1   0.01% ppc64
>   1   0.01% kfreebsd-amd64
>   13524 100.00% total (ignored 325 without arch info)

-- 
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Re: Translated packages descriptions progress

[Felipe Augusto van de Wiel (faw)]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 07/30/2006 03:26 AM, Michael Vogt wrote:
> Dear Friends,

Hi Michael,


> the current version of apt in debian/experimental has support for
> translated package descriptions and we have a the current translations
> available for sid on the mirrors (currently not on ftp.debian.org 
> itself because of the mirror split I suspect).

In a couple of mirrors that I checked, the translations look
a little bit out-of-date (from May.2006), is this expected and for
now the idea is just have it for tests, or we will have it being
update automagically (which would be wonderful). :-)


> This means that everyone with non-english locales will get translated
> packages descriptions on the next "apt-get update" run if they install
> the apt from experimental. Synaptic and aptitude have support for this
> feature as well, python-apt and others will follow soon.

That's great.


> Please help testing the new code and report problems and/or
> success. It should be enough to install apt, python-apt, synaptic from
> experimental and if your LANG is set to something other than C it
> should download the appropriate translation indexes and displays them
> with apt-cache or synaptic (warning: not everything is translated
> yet).

It is already based on the recent work of Michael Bramer (grisu)?


> I think this is a important step forward for a fully localized system
> and I'm pretty excited about it.

As a translator, I'm very happy to hear news on this field again.


> The ddtp system was developed by Michael Bramer, the code in apt is
> based on the work of Otavio Salvador <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> who
> implemented a patch against apt for 0.5.5.1. The translated package
> descriptions where imported by Anthony Towns for sid. Thanks to all
> of you :) And to the busy translators who work on making that happen!
> 
> More information:
> * the first announcement I was able to find:
>   http://lwn.net/2002/0103/a/deb-ddtp.php3
> * original announcement about apt-i18n: http://lwn.net/Articles/34753/
> 
> The ddtp project is hosted at http://ddtp.debian.net/. You can view
> the status of the various package descriptions via the webpage. If you
> want to help translating, please to the following:
> 
>  1. send a Mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject 'GET 3 cs'
> (use cs da de eo es fi fr hu it ja nl pl pt_BR pt_PT ru sk sv_SE
>  uk as langcode)
>  2. you get a mail from the ddtp server with three untranslated
> descriptions.
>  3. Translate the descriptions
>  4. send this as mail attachments back to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

I have a few doubts, because I would like to ask the Brazilian
Portuguese Team to start working on it again, so here they go:

The review process is the same?

There are also "coordinators" with special commands to the
pdesc server? (At least for Brazilian team, we will need to
update that address).

Is there anything else that we could do to help DDTP?


We exchange a lot of ideas about the DDTP during DebConf6,
we also tried to add this as a "pet release goal" for etch, but for
quite a while now, there were no news, thanks for this report. :-)

There are also plans to work on DDTP as part of the Debian
i18n infrastructure, I'm very happy with the news and I'm cc:ing
- -i18n because I really would like to keep information in sync and
also all the efforts that I know we have on that matter.


> Cheers,
>  Michael

Kind regards,

- --
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"Debian. Freedom to code. Code to freedom!"
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Re: Debian architectures, according to popularity-contest

[Dustin Harriman]

Hello Joey and all you other Debian heroes,Joey Hess wrote:"It's interesting to see arm increasing like this. I wonder which new arm
systems are responsible?"It's likely that the TS-7300 is an ARM embedded computer quickly growing in popularity.  I suggest this because the TS-7300 (and similar, past Technologic Systems products) seems to be the only Debian-compatible ARM computer that has ads for it in Linux Journal on a regular basis.  
After a couple months tinkering with one of these (with the goal of getting a working desktop), I've posted some juicy, straight-up technical info about the TS-7300 here:
http://lists.debian.org/debian-arm/2006/07/msg00027.htmlhttp://ca.blog.360.yahoo.com/dustinharriman?p=7
http://ca.blog.360.yahoo.com/dustinharriman?p=11Also see desktop screenshot and other pix of my TS-7300 (dig the cheesy, tiny cardboard case I made with penguins on it) here:
http://ca.photos.yahoo.com/ph/dustinharriman/slideshow?.dir=/af59scd&.src="">Cheers,
Dustin HarrimanMy Blog: http://ca.blog.360.yahoo.com/dustinharrimanRSS Feed: 

http://ca.blog.360.yahoo.com/rss-RkGSoVA1brWtXrVH9Gr5CzgVujwwGg--?cq=1

Re: lilypond and python

[Thomas Bushnell BSG]

Loïc Minier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Sat, Jul 29, 2006, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
>> > So what? If you know how to fix that issue, then why don't you upload a
>> > package based on Pierre's work with the fix? Why don't you do it RIGHT
>> > NOW and get DONE with this madness?
>> I don't know a fix for that issue except to use Guile 1.8.
>
>  Why do you insist on not fixing e.g. the gcc build failure right now
>  with the version in Debian which builds with the guile in Debian and
>  the default python in Debian?

I have not insisted any such thing.

Thomas

Re: lilypond and python

[Thomas Bushnell BSG]

Loïc Minier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

>  When this thread started, you had decided to bind the fix with the new
>  upstream release and you had blocked the new upstream release with the
>  switch of the default Python version.  Now you're also blocking this
>  new upstream release with a major new guile version.

It is amazing how you could get something so simple so very wrong.

What I said ages ago was that it's *not* bound with the new upstream
release; rather, it's bound with me *not knowing* whether the new
upstream release could be packaged in the short-term.

Thomas

Re: lilypond and python

[Thomas Bushnell BSG]

Pierre Habouzit <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Le dim 30 juillet 2006 07:21, Thomas Bushnell BSG a écrit :
>
>> No, it requires *both* the newer Python 
>
>   pure speculation, upstream *AND* users on the list, claim it works 
> with python2.3. so stop with that, it's tiresome.

This is incorrect.  

Thomas

Re: lilypond and python

[Thomas Bushnell BSG]

Loïc Minier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

>  I wrote "the default python version", and I maintain that my original
>  fix would work with the new upstream release.

Your "original fix" would not succesfully apply as a patch to the new
upstream version.  It's also, as it happens, the *wrong* way to make
the new upstream release compile with a non-default python version.
This irony is amazing. 

>  Basically, my remarks match those in the complete report of Pierre
>  Habouzit in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> which you didn't
>  reply to except to claim that you were already knew about the guile
>  issue (yet you failed to mention it!).

I said that I was ahead of him; I did not say that I was months ahead
of him.  I said that by the time he posted that message, it was not
news to me.  

Thomas

Re: Bug#380468: ITP: phpunit2 -- Unit testing suite for PHP5

[Aníbal Monsalve Salazar]

On Mon, Jul 31, 2006 at 06:52:50AM +1000, Matthew Palmer wrote:
>On Sun, Jul 30, 2006 at 02:40:47PM +0200, Bart Martens wrote:
>>Package: wnpp
>>Severity: wishlist
>>Owner: Bart Martens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>>* Package name: phpunit2
>
>*cough*330301*cough*

It seems to me that the submitter of #330301 is MIA:

#330301 is nine months old.

The submitter of #330301 didn't reply during the last three months
(or so) to a question about the status of the ITP of php-phpunit2.

So, I have uploaded Bart's package, wich closes both #330301 and
#380468.

Aníbal Monsalve Salazar
-- 
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Re: cdrtools

[Stephen Gran]

This one time, at band camp, Wouter Verhelst said:
> On Sun, Jul 30, 2006 at 11:25:00AM +0200, Joerg Schilling wrote:
> > Again a person who tries to bend the GPL to his wishes..
> 
> Gee, that sounds familiar somehow.

Haven't we reached the point where we have noticed that all posts by JS
are understood as being based in a special fantasy land only inhabited
by him and a few fanboys?

Can we move on?  I am slightly bored with having my various mailboxes
filled with fantastical interpretations of licenses, and would like to
move on to new and different flamewars, if we could.

Thanks all,
-- 
 -
|   ,''`.Stephen Gran |
|  : :' :[EMAIL PROTECTED] |
|  `. `'Debian user, admin, and developer |
|`- http://www.debian.org |
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Re: Debian architectures, according to popularity-contest

[Stephen Gran]

This one time, at band camp, Dustin Harriman said:
> Hello Joey and all you other Debian heroes,
> 
> Joey Hess wrote:
> "It's interesting to see arm increasing like this. I wonder which new arm
> systems are responsible?"
> 
> It's likely that the TS-7300 is an ARM embedded computer quickly growing in
> popularity.  I suggest this because the TS-7300 (and similar, past
> Technologic Systems products) seems to be the only Debian-compatible ARM
> computer that has ads for it in Linux Journal on a regular basis.

While I have to agree that the presence or absence of ads in LJ may make
or break some consumers decisions about what hardware to go with, I just
feel I have to note that arm has been a long supported platform within
Debian, and there are hundreds if not thousands of machines running
arm/Debian, even if they are not reporting to popcon.  In fact, if I was
running Debian on arm, I would hope my machine wasn't wasting precious
CPU cycles reporting to popcon.

But that's just my 2p.
-- 
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Re: cdrtools

[Matthew R. Dempsky]

On Sun, Jul 30, 2006 at 10:03:14PM +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 30, 2006 at 11:25:00AM +0200, Joerg Schilling wrote:
> > Note it is unclear whether the makefiles could be called "scripts"
> 
> Unproven assertion.

How is something proven unclear?


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Re: [xml/sgml-pkgs] Re: Build failure: cannot find -lz

[Steve Langasek]

On Wed, Jul 26, 2006 at 07:49:30AM +0200, Mike Hommey wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 25, 2006 at 12:29:15PM -0700, Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > On Tue, Jul 25, 2006 at 08:50:48PM +0200, Mike Hommey wrote:
> > > > So yes, please re-add the dependency on libxml2-dev for the time being.

> > > We're still not so much in a rush.

> > Yes, we *are*.  The RC bug count for etch is currently moving in the wrong
> > direction, and having dozens of FTBFS bugs added all of a sudden contributes
> > to this problem.

> Well, it got in the wrong direction because of
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=370436;msg=37

That's one contributing factor.  But that's not a reason to compound the
problem and push us even farther from release.

> Last time I looked at some gnome packages, one of the few dpatches was a
> relibtoolize one... The change has been done more than 10 days ago now,
> it it were to break dozens, or possibly even *hundreds* of packages, it
> would already have done so.

Yes, and the nature of the breakage is that it causes build failures.  We
don't rebuild all packages every day, or every week; so these bugs aren't
likely to be found all at once, but they still would be RC and need to be
addressed before release.

> But I'll fix the issue anyways.

Thank you very much for doing this.

> > > and then let's see if we need the dependency again if the time
> > > is too short to fix everything.

> > We already know that time is too short, because this change will cause
> > literally dozens, or possibly even *hundreds*, of RC FTBFS bugs that will
> > eat up the time of everyone trying to push for release, distracting from the
> > ones that actually *need* to be fixed on their respective packages.

> Speaking of RC bugs that *need* or not to be fixed, I'm still waiting to
> know if i can ignore-etch #377418...

I don't see how that could be ignorable.  The porters have stated that the
platform detection in the package, aside from not being compliant with
policy, is genuinely wrong for the s390 Debian port.  The only way it could
be ignored would be for the s390 porters to commit to the use of linux32 (or
whatever the s390 equivalent command is) for etch.

> > If you want to try to work out which packages can be usefully updated to the
> > Debian libtool and submit patches, I'm all in favor of this -- but in the
> > meantime, please don't leave libxml2-dev in unstable in a state that breaks
> > our ability to build large portions of the archive.

> There are 2 ways of solving the problem: either add the dependency on
> zlib1g-dev back, or remove the dependency_libs from the .la.
> The former has the drawback to break static linking using libtool, but
> is it a real problem ?

Fine with me.

-- 
Steve Langasek   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer   to set it on, and I can move the world.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.debian.org/


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Bug#380583: ITP: debcache -- python module to maintain and serve a cache of Debian packages

[Adeodato Simó]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: "Adeodato Simó" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: debcache
  Version : N/A
  Upstream Author : Adeodato Simó <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL (bzr branch): http://people.debian.org/~adeodato/code/debian/debcache
* License : MIT
  Programming Lang: Python
  Description : python module to maintain and serve a cache of Debian 
packages

 debcache is another caching solution for Debian packages and other files found
 in Debian mirrors. It consists on a Python module with classes that implement
 the creation and maintenance of the cache in a transport-agnostic way, on top
 of which different front-ends and even user-end applications can be 
implemented.
 
 This package includes the following front-ends:
 
  * a standalone proxy to serve HTTP requests (like apt-proxy) [TODO]
  * a fast mod_python handler that lets Apache serve all the static files
  * a command-line client to pre-fetch packages based on the existing ones 
[TODO]
 
 The module also implements various cleanup mechanisms, including deletion of
 no longer referenced files, expiration based on age, and by number of versions
 (global or per distribution). [TODO]
 
 Other features include support for downloading Packages files via pdiff (like
 apt itself does), and denying clients access to those diffs by default.

 * * *

(The story: a year ago or so, and after repeated unhappiness with
apt-proxy and apt-cacher, I wrote my first implementation of a caching
system for Debian packages, in Ruby, which has been doing the job for
over a year, both at home and work.

Recently I became unhappy with it as well, and tried to like approx,
which was really easy even despite the lack of pdiff support (#367475),
but not so much after discovering it would delete source packages from
the cache (#374736), and really impossible after some hours of banging
my head against OCaml repeteadly trying to fix that bug myself.

Since updating my Ruby stuff to support pdiffs really made me shiver,
and since I knew of a pdiff implementation in Python by Florian Weimer,
I found myself one night putting some code together, and using it some
days after. It is still uncomplete, but as of today, SORTAWORKSFORME.)

-- 
Adeodato Simó dato at net.com.org.es
Debian Developer  adeodato at debian.org
 
Beauty, brains, availability, personality: pick any two.

Re: package ownership in Debian

[Hubert Chan]

On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 20:00:21 +, "Gustavo Franco" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

[...]

> The packages that aren't under group maintenance and will never be,
> needs more not so strict NMU rules.

Why?

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Re: Translated packages descriptions progress

[Charles Plessy]

Le Sun, Jul 30, 2006 at 08:26:02AM +0200, Michael Vogt a écrit :
> 
>  1. send a Mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject 'GET 3 cs'
> (use cs da de eo es fi fr hu it ja nl pl pt_BR pt_PT ru sk sv_SE
>  uk as langcode)

Dear Michael,

how can we get description for specific packages? There are some pages
of the debian web site, such as in the debian-med area [1], which
contain package descriptions that have therefore have already been
translated in some languages. 

[1] http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-med/microbio

Have a nice day,

-- 
Charles Plessy,
Wako, Saitama, Japan


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Re: Debian architectures, according to popularity-contest

[Petter Reinholdtsen]

[Stephen Gran]
> While I have to agree that the presence or absence of ads in LJ may make
> or break some consumers decisions about what hardware to go with, I just
> feel I have to note that arm has been a long supported platform within
> Debian, and there are hundreds if not thousands of machines running
> arm/Debian, even if they are not reporting to popcon.  In fact, if I was
> running Debian on arm, I would hope my machine wasn't wasting precious
> CPU cycles reporting to popcon.

Claim like this come up again and again, for various architectures.  I
doubt that it is relevant for the accuracy of the statistics.  I
believe there are a large percentage of machines without
popularity-contest installed for all the architectures, and that this
do not skew the result significantly for any of the architecture. If
it wasn't, I would expect the more powerful architectures to become
more and more popular as the number of submissions increase.  This has
not happened.  The relative population count for various architectures
have not changed much while the amount of submissions have more than
doubled.  For example, m68k have had around 0.04% of the population
all the time. :)

I suspect the frequency of people treasuring their CPU time too much
to spend it on popularity-contest is about the same on all
architectures. :)

I believe the availability of hardware have a lot more impact on the
popcon statistics than the amount of people not running
popularity-contest.

Friendly,
-- 
Petter Reinholdtsen


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