Re: Release Date Update

[Jérôme Warnier]

Le lundi 20 mars 2006 à 17:39 -0600, Ron Johnson a écrit :
> On Mon, 2006-03-20 at 23:15 +, Colin Watson wrote:
> > On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 02:51:25PM -0800, Mark Shuttleworh wrote:
> > 
> > (In case it wasn't clear, this wasn't Mark Shuttlewor*t*h posting.
> > Please don't feed the troll.)
> 
> Even so, are his points valid?
Why would Ubuntu choose to release Dapper Drake, which is their first
entreprise-grade version (so said them), on 1st June then? ;-)

buildd disk space and debug symbols

[Mike Hommey]

Hi fellow developpers,

I'm considering building xulrunner with debugging symbols enabled (and
putting them in a separate -dbg package), but if I recall correctly,
it has been disabled from firefox and mozilla builds because of the time
and disk space required (something like 2GB) that could be a burden on
some architectures.

So I'm wondering if building xulrunner with debugging symbols is
possible considering the buildd infrastructure, or at all useful on
arches like m68k, mips, sparc, where the userbase might be quite low
(and bug reports for crashes, too...)

Or should I simply provide the -dbg package for something like
Architecture: i386 amd64 powerpc ?

What do you think ?

Mike


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Re: So we got caught, so what? But we did the right thing.

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 05:54:32PM -0800, Greg Conner wrote:
> PS.. For further evidence on how poor your leadership is, I refer you to 
> how much caos there is on your mailing lists.
> 
> You can't keep your release managers: 
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/03/msg8.html

... who's now a candidate to become DPL. Your point?

> You have no control over your ftpmasters who act like they run the world.

Err, I've never seen any ftpmaster act like that. Evidence to the
contrary will be scrutinized, but I guess you won't be able to come up
with any.

> You do nothing but put each other down.  I refere top all the posts about 
> svenl.  You all don't know how to work together at all.

Thanks for the compliment. And for the good (ahem) example you're
showing here.

> You have the biggest reputation of all distros as being jerks to others.  

Which is a pity, because it's only a (very vocal) minority which is a
bunch of jerks.

> Then pawn off your cowardice by saying "we're all just volunteers"

We are, aren't we?

> You lose half your Developer wannabies, NMs, because your mentor program is 
> lousy and you are more worried about making people suffer through the 
> buracracy allowing  people who honestly want to help Debian to do so. See 
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-newmaint/2005/12/msg4.html

Are you suggesting we should allow everyone who wants it to have
effective root on all Debian installations out there?

Surely you must be joking.

> You say it takes you guys a long time to release packages because you want 
> them bug free.  HA!!!   Things like gnome 2.12 come out and it 
> isn't in Unstable for like 3 months.  It would take less time to get 
> packages ready for stable if you would put them in Unstable.

Have you actually ever tried to prepare a Debian package?

> You talk about how much care you put into finding good developers, but you 
> can't even get them to work for you:  
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/01/msg4.html
> YOu have to threaten them to work, and yet the bugs are still there.
> 
> etc...  we could keep going but there is not enough time in the day.
> 
> In short, get a new Leadership,(WE are aware of new DPL Elections), but who 

For reference, the SCO thing was a joke. The fact that you think we
really believe that makes it clear how less you understand.

Ideas to improve Debian are, and have always been, welcome. But telling
people who've been able to build a consistent and functional system for
over a decade that "you suck, this is how you should do stuff" is just
trolling.

> _
> Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee? 
> Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

Hah!

-- 
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  -- Seven Of Nine, "Ashes to Ashes", stardate 53679.4


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Re: cross-compiling Debian packages

[Nikita V. Youshchenko]

> Would you be so kind to post undeted patches to these bugs?

s/undeted /updated :)


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Re: So we got caught, so what? But we did the right thing.

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Tue, Mar 21, 2006 at 09:53:38AM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 05:54:32PM -0800, Greg Conner wrote:
> > PS.. For further evidence on how poor your leadership is, I refer you to 
> > how much caos there is on your mailing lists.
> > 
> > You can't keep your release managers: 
> > http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/03/msg8.html
> 
> ... who's now a candidate to become DPL. Your point?

Err, sorry, I misread that one. Thought "Greg" was referring to Aj
resigning after the first GFDL vote here.

-- 
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  -- Seven Of Nine, "Ashes to Ashes", stardate 53679.4


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Re: So we got caught, so what? But we did the right thing.

[Manoj Srivastava]

On 20 Mar 2006, Greg Conner told this:

>> It must be SCO.  They have cleverly disguised themselves as BYU
>> students.  :-)
>>
>> -Roberto
>
> So we got caught trying to br BYU students.  You guys win that
> battle.

Interestingly enough:
 
,[ http://honorcode.byu.edu/Ecclesiastical_Endorsement.htm ]
|  Requirements
| 
| Whether on or off campus, or between semesters, all students are
| expected to abide by the Honor Code, which includes: the Academic
| Honesty Policy, the Dress and Grooming Standards, and the Residential
| Living Standards. Students are required to be in good Honor Code
| Standing to graduate. 
`


,[ http://honorcode.byu.edu/Honor_Code.htm ]
|  Honor Code Statement
| 
| We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in
| doing good to all men... If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of
| good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things (Thirteenth
| Article of Faith).  
| 
| As a matter of personal commitment, students, faculty, and staff of
| Brigham Young University, Brigham Young University-Hawaii, Brigham
| Young University-Idaho, and LDS Business College are expected to
| demonstrate in daily living on and off campus those moral virtues
| encompassed in the gospel of Jesus Christ, and will  
| 
| *  Be honest
|   SNIP
`

manoj
-- 
Omissions, no less than commissions, are often times branches of
injustice. Antoninus
Manoj Srivastava   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
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Bug#358147: ITP: initng-ifiles -- Scripts for initializing and shutting down the system with Initng

[Armin Berres]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Armin Berres <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


* Package name: initng-ifiles
  Version : 0.0.1
  Upstream Author : The Initng Team <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://initng.thinktux.net/
* License : GPL
  Description : Scripts for initializing and shutting down the system with 
Initng

 The scripts in this package initialize a Debian GNU/Linux system using
 Initng at boot time and finalize it at halt or reboot time.

 Note: The Initfiles have not been released yet - by now the scripts are 
included
 with the normal Initng release.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: testing/unstable
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (990, 'unstable'), (1, 'experimental')
Architecture: i386 (i686)
Shell:  /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash
Kernel: Linux 2.6.15
Locale: LANG=en_GB.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_GB.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)


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Re: buildd disk space and debug symbols

[Martin Michlmayr]

* Martin Michlmayr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-03-21 12:32]:
> > Oh? Are they sent upstream? Are they for 2.0.x?
> 
> No, they said they were too busy to clean them up for submission right
> now.  I'll see if I can get a copy of the current patches.

(Oh, and yes, they are for 2.0).
-- 
Martin Michlmayr
http://www.cyrius.com/


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Re: buildd disk space and debug symbols

[Rene Engelhard]

Am Dienstag 21 März 2006 12:56 schrieb Martin Michlmayr:
> * Mike Hommey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-03-21 09:46]:
> > So I'm wondering if building xulrunner with debugging symbols is
> > possible considering the buildd infrastructure, or at all useful on
> > arches like m68k, mips, sparc, where the userbase might be quite low
>
> FWIW, mozilla is pretty broken on mips.  Thiemo Seufer submitted some
> patches upstream but I think they still haven't been applied.
>
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=274947
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=258429
>
> Once this gets sorted out, we could use mozilla on mips.  There's
> certainly fast enough hardware to do so.  Furthermore, China has been
> working on a MIPS based CPU (Godson-2) which they intend to use in
> desktop PCs.  Apparently they also have patches for OOo.

Oh? Are they sent upstream? Are they for 2.0.x?
I guess they work only with non-Java, though ;-)

(There also is arm and s390, but only for 1.1.x)

Regards,

Rene
-- 
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 : :' : http://www.debian.org | http://people.debian.org/~rene/
 `. `'  [EMAIL PROTECTED] | GnuPG-Key ID: 248AEB73
   `-   Fingerprint: 41FA F208 28D4 7CA5 19BB  7AD9 F859 90B0 248A EB73

Re: buildd disk space and debug symbols

[Martin Michlmayr]

* Mike Hommey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-03-21 09:46]:
> So I'm wondering if building xulrunner with debugging symbols is
> possible considering the buildd infrastructure, or at all useful on
> arches like m68k, mips, sparc, where the userbase might be quite low

FWIW, mozilla is pretty broken on mips.  Thiemo Seufer submitted some
patches upstream but I think they still haven't been applied.

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=274947
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=258429

Once this gets sorted out, we could use mozilla on mips.  There's
certainly fast enough hardware to do so.  Furthermore, China has been
working on a MIPS based CPU (Godson-2) which they intend to use in
desktop PCs.  Apparently they also have patches for OOo.
-- 
Martin Michlmayr
http://www.cyrius.com/


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Re: shared libraries dependecy problem.

[Martijn van Oosterhout]

On 3/20/06, Grzegorz Bizon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi.
>
> I have problem with dependecies on shared libraries in my package
> (tleenx2).
> Linda complains that:
> W: tleenx2; A binary links against a library that is not depended on.
> (By the way - shoudn't it be error rather than warning ?)
> I have checked binary with objdump and ldd and i got ... simillar but
> not the same results.
> ldd output shows four more entries than objdump. That is:

It's somewhat irritating that linda doesn't say *which* library, but
that's beside the point.

One way to determine what the issue is by repeating the final link
line with -Wl,--as-needed to strip out unused libs. Then diff the
objdump output to see which libraries were removed and thus
extraneous.

However, please *test* the resulting binary. There are libraries out
there that don't declare all the libs they need and if you're using
one of those the result might be that you fix your package only to
reveal a bug in another. People building shared libraries can use
-Wl,--no-allow-shlib-undefined to detect this situation.

Hope this helps,
--
Martijn van Oosterhout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://svana.org/kleptog/

Re: buildd disk space and debug symbols

[Mike Hommey]

On Tue, Mar 21, 2006 at 11:56:36AM +, Martin Michlmayr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> * Mike Hommey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-03-21 09:46]:
> > So I'm wondering if building xulrunner with debugging symbols is
> > possible considering the buildd infrastructure, or at all useful on
> > arches like m68k, mips, sparc, where the userbase might be quite low
> 
> FWIW, mozilla is pretty broken on mips.  Thiemo Seufer submitted some
> patches upstream but I think they still haven't been applied.
> 
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=274947
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=258429

FWIW, Thiemo's patch has been in debian's firefox for a while
(well, at least that of bugzilla #258429), and is also aaplied to
xulrunner.

Mike


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Re: shared libraries dependecy problem.

[Adeodato Simó]

* Peter Samuelson [Tue, 21 Mar 2006 01:01:05 -0600]:

> [Grzegorz Bizon]
> > Linda complains that:
> > W: tleenx2; A binary links against a library that is not depended on.
> > (By the way - shoudn't it be error rather than warning ?)

[snip]

> The point is that you probably don't need to link to, e.g., -lX11,
> unless you directly use functions like XOpenDisplay or XBeep.
> Typically if you are using GTK, you won't be using any of those
> low-level functions.

  I am confused. Does the warning refer to a binary linking
  (objdump-NEEDING) to a library it does not use symbols from, or to a
  binary that links (ldd-output) to a library is not Depended: on? I had
  thought the latter, in which case the correct thing to do is to turn
  the check to use objdump, and the warning into an error; but your
  comment, Peter, seems to imply the former :-?, in which case I'd like
  to suggest a change in the wording:

W: tleenx2; A binary links against a library it does not use symbols from

  Cheers,

-- 
Adeodato Simó dato at net.com.org.es
Debian Developer  adeodato at debian.org
 
The easy way is the wrong way, and the hard way is the stupid way. Pick one.


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Re: buildd disk space and debug symbols

[Martin Michlmayr]

* Rene Engelhard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-03-21 13:19]:
> > Apparently they also have patches for OOo.
> 
> Oh? Are they sent upstream? Are they for 2.0.x?

No, they said they were too busy to clean them up for submission right
now.  I'll see if I can get a copy of the current patches.

> I guess they work only with non-Java, though ;-)

Not sure.  My contact also mentioned some kaffe (and mplayer) patches.
[Although I've heard from Gentoo people that mplayer works already.]

I'll try to get hold of the patches.
-- 
Martin Michlmayr
http://www.cyrius.com/


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Re: buildd disk space and debug symbols

[Martin Michlmayr]

* Mike Hommey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-03-21 13:08]:
> FWIW, Thiemo's patch has been in debian's firefox for a while
> (well, at least that of bugzilla #258429), and is also aaplied to
> xulrunner.

I can confirm that firefox in Debian works.  However, what can we do
to finally get this patch into upstream?  It seem the discussion never
went anywhere, and for all I know Mozilla has this bizarre system I
don't understand where you have to find people yourself to look at the
patches you submit.  Given that you know the Mozilla development
process, can you request review again or do whatever is necessary to
get this in.  I can confirm that the patch in our firefox works - at
least firefox starts and loads the Debian homepage.  I'll play some
more with it later.

Thanks.
-- 
Martin Michlmayr
http://www.cyrius.com/


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for those who care about GNOME^w glib applications.

[Gustavo Franco]

Well, if you're running your favourite glib application and it seems
to be broken with the output like:
(...)
*** glibc detected *** free(): invalid pointer: 0x08ced388 ***

It's probably due to the new glib (GSlice) memory allocator[0], but
it's an application bug. Please first check if it's really glib
related[1].

There's a workaround that is run the application as follows:
$ G_SLICE=always-malloc application

FYI, evolution seems to be affected and it was already fixed upstream.
Sebastian Bacher has a patch to galculator too. If you hit this bug in
other random application, please open a bug against the application
and feel free to cc: me. I'll try keep track of these bugs with
usertags.

[0] = http://www.gnome.org/start/2.14/notes/en/rndevelopers.html
 http://developer.gnome.org/doc/API/2.0/glib/glib-Memory-Slices.html

[1] = ldd `which application` | grep libglib

-- stratus

Bug#358176: ITP: enbd -- alternative for kernel NBD, designed for RAID over NBD

[Bas van Schaik]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Bas van Schaik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


* Package name: enbd
  Version : 2.4.32+2.4.33pre-1
  Upstream Author : Peter T. Breuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://www.it.uc3m.es/ptb/nbd/
* License : GPL
  Description : alternative for kernel NBD, designed for RAID over NBD

The Enhanced Network Block Device (ENBD) is a thoughened up version of
the normal kernel NBD. It is especially designed to provide an efficient 
and robust device, which enables you to easily run RAID over NBD.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: 3.1
Architecture: i386 (i686)
Kernel: Linux 2.6.8-2-686-smp
Locale: LANG=en_US, LC_CTYPE=en_US (charmap=ISO-8859-1)


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Re: So we got caught, so what? But we did the right thing.

[Thomas Bushnell BSG]

Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On 20 Mar 2006, Greg Conner told this:

>> So we got caught trying to br BYU students.  You guys win that
>> battle.
>
> Interestingly enough:
>  
> ,[ http://honorcode.byu.edu/Ecclesiastical_Endorsement.htm ]
> |  Requirements
> | 
> | Whether on or off campus, or between semesters, all students are
> | expected to abide by the Honor Code, which includes: the Academic
> | Honesty Policy, the Dress and Grooming Standards, and the Residential
> | Living Standards. Students are required to be in good Honor Code
> | Standing to graduate. 
> `

As you probably already know, Manoj, Honor Codes like this are not
meant to be applied as strictly as they claim.

The strictness is intended to provide only for the exercise of power.
Gay students at BYU can expect to be expelled instantly, on the
grounds that the Honor Code knows no flexibility or compassion; and
then, as we have seen and can expect, lying is tolerated.

Honor Codes like this are not descriptions of reality--whether the
reality of how people behave, or the reality of what standards are
enforced.  (For another example, see the Honor Codes at the US service
academies, which institutions not only are plagued by religious
discrimination and violence against women, but in which that
very discrimination and violence is tolerated for years by the
power-holders in the institution.)  The Honor Code is not a
description of actual behavior or actual disciplinary expectations.
It is a tool for the exercise of power; it is an attempt to make the
institution seem more honorable than it actually is.

It is ironic in the extreme, of course, that it should be promulgated
by an institution with a history of bigotry as deeply entrenched as
BYU! 

Things like Honor Codes are self-presentations, attempts to depict
one's institution as something other than as it is, and to serve as a
touchstone for the celebration of and deployment of arbitrary and
unbridled power.

In other words, the Honor Code (despite the words "all students") is
not meant to apply to all students.  It is meant to be a cover for
the self-righteousness of some to exercise their power as they please
over the others.  For those who are officially "honorable" (no matter
how much they may lie, cheat, or steal), the Honor Code is not
enforced, and never will be.

The attentive reader may see parallels to certain events in Debian's
history. 

Thomas


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Re: buildd disk space and debug symbols

[Eric Dorland]

* Martin Michlmayr ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> * Mike Hommey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-03-21 13:08]:
> > FWIW, Thiemo's patch has been in debian's firefox for a while
> > (well, at least that of bugzilla #258429), and is also aaplied to
> > xulrunner.
> 
> I can confirm that firefox in Debian works.  However, what can we do
> to finally get this patch into upstream?  It seem the discussion never
> went anywhere, and for all I know Mozilla has this bizarre system I
> don't understand where you have to find people yourself to look at the
> patches you submit.  Given that you know the Mozilla development
> process, can you request review again or do whatever is necessary to
> get this in.  I can confirm that the patch in our firefox works - at
> least firefox starts and loads the Debian homepage.  I'll play some
> more with it later.

If I recall correctly, only the submitter of the bug and people
properly blessed can turn on the ask for review flag. 

-- 
Eric Dorland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
ICQ: #61138586, Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
1024D/16D970C6 097C 4861 9934 27A0 8E1C  2B0A 61E9 8ECF 16D9 70C6

-BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-
Version: 3.12
GCS d- s++: a-- C+++ UL+++ P++ L++ E++ W++ N+ o K- w+ 
O? M++ V-- PS+ PE Y+ PGP++ t++ 5++ X+ R tv++ b+++ DI+ D+ 
G e h! r- y+ 
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Re: Bruce Perens hosts party at OSCON Wednesday night

[Thaddeus H. Black]

Paul Hedderly wrote:
> Will a new DPL be able to break through this barrier
> of arrogant selfish one-up-manship?

Unlikely.  The problem seems mostly an unavoidable
function of Debian's size.  Debian's experience appears
to support the earlier experience of others: that large
groups differ fundamentally in character from small
groups; that human society does not scale, even when we
wish that it might.  Such immutable facts of human
nature are not something any DPL can alter.

> Will all Debian devs ever be able to encourage and
> build each other up ... ?

Most do so now, in my experience.  However, this does
not invalidate your observation with regard to the main
Debian mailing lists.  You are right.

As a thought experiment, imagine debian-devel, if Debian
had ten times the number of Developers it has today, if
Debian were generally ten times the size.


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Re: buildd disk space and debug symbols

[Martin Michlmayr]

* Rene Engelhard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-03-21 13:19]:
> Oh? Are they sent upstream? Are they for 2.0.x?

I've got hold of the patches now.  I'll review what I'v been sent
exactly and then move this discussion over to
debian-openoffice@lists.debian.org

> I guess they work only with non-Java, though ;-)

That's right.
-- 
Martin Michlmayr
http://www.cyrius.com/


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Re: buildd disk space and debug symbols

[Martin Michlmayr]

* Eric Dorland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-03-21 10:34]:
> > get this in.  I can confirm that the patch in our firefox works -
> > at least firefox starts and loads the Debian homepage.  I'll play
> > some more with it later.
> 
> If I recall correctly, only the submitter of the bug and people
> properly blessed can turn on the ask for review flag.

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=258429 has been submitted
by glandium so hopefully he can do the necessary magic.

-- 
Martin Michlmayr
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Re: dicussion about patches ... ignoring patches make motivation to provide them fall

[Thomas Hood]

Me:
> [In the hypothetical case] I write to the maintainer
> of P but get no reply.  After repeating this a few times I (finally!)
> get a message from the P maintainer... about his having more important
> things to do than deal with my patch. [...]

Frans Pop:
> Alternative conclusion to this saga...
> I discuss on d-devel if the Foo project is a worthwhile goal and how I've 
> gotten stuck. There is general agreement that Foo is worth pushing for 
> the next release. I ask for a review of/help with my patches to the 
> packages that block progress, deal with the comments that come back and 
> NMU them (after mailing the maintainer one last time). [...]


Right.  Either way, the maintainer's failure to respond to my messages ends
up costing me a lot of time. The prospect of this is likely to have a negative
impact on my motivation to undertake project Foo in the first place.  This
was the contention expressed in the Subject line and is the only point I would
want to support.  Svenl originally claimed that ignoring patches is an act of
"contempt", but I would certainly not go that far.  Yes, responding to a
request would be regarded as elementary politeness in some spheres, but
Debian's social norms are not the same as those of everyday life.
-- 
Thomas Hood


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Re: Bug#358080: ITP: pygaim -- python plugin support for gaim

[Ari Pollak]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: RIPEMD160

Could you please name this gaim-python instead, to follow the convention
of the other gaim plugins? Also, please make sure you read
README.Debian.dev in the gaim-dev package so that you know how to use
the dh_gaim helper.

Thanks,
Ari
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Bug#358189: ITP: gaupol -- A subtitle editor for text-based subtitles

[Piotr Ozarowski]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Piotr Ozarowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: gaupol
  Version : 0.4.0
  Upstream Author : Osmo Salomaa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://home.gna.org/gaupol/
* License : GPL
  Description : A subtitle editor for text-based subtitles

It supports multiple subtitle file formats and provides
means of text corrections and time manipulations.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: testing/unstable
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable'), (1, 'experimental')
Architecture: i386 (i686)
Shell:  /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash
Kernel: Linux 2.6.14.7-grsec
Locale: LANG=pl_PL, LC_CTYPE=pl_PL (charmap=ISO-8859-2)


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Re: buildd disk space and debug symbols

[Eric Dorland]

* Martin Michlmayr ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> * Eric Dorland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-03-21 10:34]:
> > > get this in.  I can confirm that the patch in our firefox works -
> > > at least firefox starts and loads the Debian homepage.  I'll play
> > > some more with it later.
> > 
> > If I recall correctly, only the submitter of the bug and people
> > properly blessed can turn on the ask for review flag.
> 
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=258429 has been submitted
> by glandium so hopefully he can do the necessary magic.

Whoops, good point. 

-- 
Eric Dorland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
ICQ: #61138586, Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
1024D/16D970C6 097C 4861 9934 27A0 8E1C  2B0A 61E9 8ECF 16D9 70C6

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Version: 3.12
GCS d- s++: a-- C+++ UL+++ P++ L++ E++ W++ N+ o K- w+ 
O? M++ V-- PS+ PE Y+ PGP++ t++ 5++ X+ R tv++ b+++ DI+ D+ 
G e h! r- y+ 
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Re: buildd disk space and debug symbols

[Mike Hommey]

On Tue, Mar 21, 2006 at 05:08:11PM +, Martin Michlmayr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> * Eric Dorland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-03-21 10:34]:
> > > get this in.  I can confirm that the patch in our firefox works -
> > > at least firefox starts and loads the Debian homepage.  I'll play
> > > some more with it later.
> > 
> > If I recall correctly, only the submitter of the bug and people
> > properly blessed can turn on the ask for review flag.
> 
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=258429 has been submitted
> by glandium so hopefully he can do the necessary magic.

Unfortunately, without a new patch, I'm afraid it'll be useless.

Mike


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Re: dicussion about patches ... ignoring patches make motivation toprovide them fall

[Thomas Bushnell BSG]

Nathanael Nerode <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Some few maintainers are obnoxious and anti-helpful.  All of these
> have bugs which have had a patch attached to them for a long time
> without mantainer comment (not even 'no, this patch doesn't work
> because X').  However, not all such bugs reflect anti-helpful
> maintainers; many reflect MIA, busy, or distracted maintainers, so
> one has to poke them to find out whether one gets a rude reply, no
> reply, or a "thank you" reply.

I think you have omitted another pattern between your two cases; or
perhaps you haven't and I just want to make it more explicit.

My normal practice is not to reply to bug reports if they seem
complete and don't need any special attention.  This is unqualifiedly
true if the report is severity normal, minor, or wishlist.  For
important bugs, I make a strong effort to understand them and try to
keep my packages with as few as I can.  For normal bugs, it depends on
whether the fix is easy to install, what my time available is, and so
forth.  For RC bugs, I try to upload a fix ASAP, except in unusual
cases.  I try to always respond to RC bugs, even if I am not likely to
fix it right away.

(I don't pretend that I perfectly *implement* this practice in every
detail, of course; I make mistakes as much as the next guy.)

So someone who sends a normal severity bug report, which is complete
and clear, will not get a reply unless I discover that I don't
understand it, when the time comes to look at it in detail, and I will
not assume that the bug is very important.  I trust the submitter to
say "this bug is blocking my work, can you give it more attention" in
the cases where this matters to them.

So a mere non-reply does not, it seems to me, connote anything bad; it
may simply mean that the bug report is complete in itself, and well
get attention when I decide I have the attention to give it.  If more
than this is required, more needs to be asked.

An example was Justin Pryzby, who recently sent email to a number of
bugs he cared about, asking if the bug was likely to be fixed for
etch.  This was helpful, and I replied or fixed the bug right away
after getting it, even for a severity minor bug.  Why?  Because
someone had said, "hey, can you attend to this now."

I don't think my practice is obnoxious or unhelpful...

Thomas


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Re: DPL Debate prepared questions list [Debian Policy Sucks]

[Ritesh Raj Sarraf]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Anthony DeRobertis on Tuesday 21 Mar 2006 06:34 wrote:

> Ritesh Raj Sarraf wrote:
>> Now, there was a known issue with those cards with e1000 driver upto
>> kernel 2.6.11, IIRC.
>>   
> Hmmm, and 2.6.12 panics (bug #327355 )
> when I try and use the tape drive on my machine. New versions not only
> fix bugs, but introduce new ones, too.
> 
> [PS: Which e1000 bug are you referring to?]

RH and SLES backport and patch what they release along with security
support. They don't ship new kernels just for a bug.

Thanks,
Ritesh
- -- 
Ritesh Raj Sarraf
RESEARCHUT -- http://www.researchut.com
"Necessity is the mother of invention."
"Stealing logic from one person is plagiarism, stealing from many is
research."
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NxvNzAmofrUcsYAHyXafrqw=
=iC//
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Re: The problem with killfiles, and other musings [Was: Re: removal of svenl from the project]

[Sven Luther]

On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 02:24:23AM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 19, 2006 at 12:28:14PM +0100, Sven Luther wrote:
> 
> > I was going to make a large answer where i was going to denouse the
> > inexactitudes and false claims of this clearly inflamatory mail, but i will
> > refrain from doing so.
> 
> > I wonder if Steve, and others of the 'esteemed' DDs, is following his own
> > advice, and rereading the mails he writes, and if so, why did he need to add
> > such a great amount of ad-hominem attacks again, and what was the added 
> > value
> > it did bring to his point.
> 
>   "So Sven is going to continue to be used here as an illustrative example,
>not because I want to pick on Sven, but because I want to demonstrate the
>plausibility of the problem I'm talking about."

I believe that you could have made the selfsame point without expressing that
list. It may be hidden in good intentions, but it stays a list of things
reproached to me, some of them being true, but others being false. Further
more, if i replied to them, i would be seen as falling again in the same thing
i was almost expelled for.

So, even if your claim above was right, it was an unfortunate way to say it
given the context, and you mail would have been perfectly valid without it.
> 
> This was *not about you*.  I was not expressing support for expelling you
> from the project, I was addressing the fallacious claim that killfiling
> people we don't get along with is a fix for conflict.  I'm sorry if you felt
> attacked by my mail, but not only was it not ad-hominem (since you were not

It had my name, had it not. You prefaced it by a "its not about sven", but it
was still a list of those accusations, some of them false.

> > There are others in the project people have a difficult time working with,
> > including some of the respected and eminent guys, but nobody would dare
> > expulse them for it, or even critic.
> 
> We weren't talking about expulsions or criticism, we were talking about
> killfiling.  I guess I could use myself as an example here instead of you,

That would have been welcome in this context.

> And aren't your follow-ups here a perfect example of why people complain
> about you personalizing all discussions?

Sorry, but you had 10+ line paragraph attacking me, some of which not being
true, and even if you had those three lines telling it was not about me, i
think it was misfortunate, like turning the knife in the wound.

I mean, it is like saying : its not about you, and then following up with a
huge list of insults, it will have the same effect on the guy you are using as
example.

Friendly,

Sven Luther


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Re: for those who care about GNOME^w glib applications.

[Gustavo Franco]

On 3/21/06, David Pashley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mar 21, 2006 at 14:42, Gustavo Franco praised the llamas by saying:
> > Well, if you're running your favourite glib application and it seems
> > to be broken with the output like:
> > (...)
> > *** glibc detected *** free(): invalid pointer: 0x08ced388 ***
> >
> > It's probably due to the new glib (GSlice) memory allocator[0], but
> > it's an application bug. Please first check if it's really glib
> > related[1].
> >
> > There's a workaround that is run the application as follows:
> > $ G_SLICE=always-malloc application
> >
> > FYI, evolution seems to be affected and it was already fixed upstream.
> > Sebastian Bacher has a patch to galculator too. If you hit this bug in
> > other random application, please open a bug against the application
> > and feel free to cc: me. I'll try keep track of these bugs with
> > usertags.
>
> I appear to have a bug filed today against irssi with a similar error.
> Bug number is 358172.
> >
> > [0] = http://www.gnome.org/start/2.14/notes/en/rndevelopers.html
> >  http://developer.gnome.org/doc/API/2.0/glib/glib-Memory-Slices.html
> >
> > [1] = ldd `which application` | grep libglib
> >

Right, i just commented in that bug and usertagged the others that i
found[0]. If you see any other related bug, please tell me. I
commented on the evo' related bug and AFAIK seb128 already has a patch
that fixes the galculator one.

[0] = http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/[EMAIL PROTECTED];tag=gslice

Thanks,
-- stratus

Re: Release Date Update

[Ron Johnson]

On Mon, 2006-03-20 at 23:03 -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> On 20 Mar 2006, Ron Johnson said:
> 
> > Well, true.  I confess to northernhemisphereoentrism.
> >
> > Still, even though Brazil, ANZ & South Africa are down under, the 
> > vast bulk of the world population lives in the Northern Hemisphere.
> 
> The premise is also weak. Man, in the summer, I want to be
>  out.

And you said you were a geek!!  You probably don't live in your
parents' basement either, do you?  ;)

>   Day trips. Picnics. Sports. County fairs. Winter is when one
>  hunkers down in the warmth of the house and codes.
> 
> With a global project, made of diverse contributors, any
>  statement like witer is better! No, Summer is better! is sily, naive,
>  shallow, and probably incorrect.

-- 
-
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson, LA USA

"There are times in politics when you must be on the right side
and lose."
John Kenneth Galbraith


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Re: cross-compiling Debian packages

[peter.kourzanov]

On Tue, Mar 21, 2006 at 12:24:12AM +0300, Nikita V. Youshchenko wrote:
> > I hope that my patches (#357629,  #357658
> > , #357661
> > ) are proper enough:-)
> 
> This is incomplete: not only libgcc does not provide -dcv1, but libstdc++ 
> and -dev and -dbg.

  And -pic probably as well:-)

> Would you be so kind to post undeted patches to these bugs?

  Posted as a followup to the aforementioned patches.

  Hope that your successor will pick them up...

  Pjotr


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Re: DPL Debate prepared questions list [Debian Policy Sucks]

[Luis Matos]

Ritesh Raj Sarraf wrote:


On Tuesday 21 March 2006 02:09, Joey Hess wrote:
 


Ritesh Raj Sarraf wrote:
   


So what do you people suggest in such cases:
1) Intel 1000MT NIC sucks, throw it away ?
2) Unh! Why don't you change to Debian Unstable ?
3) Buddy! We are all volunteers. Go and roll your own kernel with the
patches ?
4) Wait! That hardware isn't officially supported by us. Build only
machines which are known to work with Debian Stable?
 


5) etch beta 2 was released last week with support for your hardware
   



So my question is:
I discovered it today. But there might have been many Debian Users who might 
have discovered this issue earlier. What choice are they given ?


Is the choice:
Wait till etch gets released ?

RHEL and SLES do a damn good job of Hardware Bug Fixing and Feature 
Enhancement for the software they ship.


Why can't we do it ? Is it just because our policy doesn't allow it ?
Can't we revise the policy ?

Thanks,
Ritesh
 

There was spoken at sarge's release that there would be kernel updates 
on him. This would be a good thing, even if older got not supported, 
because if you upgrade to a new securiy kernel update, why not to a new 
kernel?


That is what dcc is trying to do, and what i think is wourth of. (sorry 
my bad english)


Also, this could be happening inside volatile, but it seems not.


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Re: Уникальные семинары!

[Hex Star]

ah...russian spam...translated to english:WE INVITE TO THE TWO-DAY BUSINESS- SEMINAR. .."bezopasnost' OF
BUSINESS".. _ 5 and on 6 April of 2006 years. Moscow, hotel "Kosmos"

_ on 5 April, 2006, _ business and criminal law - view from the
side of the law-enforcement agencies

* operational checkings on the tax and economic crimes.
Hearing, the request of documents, interrogation. * the investigation
of criminal cases in the sphere of business. Investigation actions:
groove, examination, search. * the participation of leader, bookkeeper
and founder in the tax and economic crimes
* owner and his business at the judicial stage of the criminal
process: as the assembled proving base is destroyed in the law court
* procuratorship as the organ of supervision after the consequence by
operational services. * procuratorship as the investigation organ: the
disturbance of copyrights, penal responsibility for poor quality
production, criminal offenses.

In the seminar participate the representatives of the highest echelons
of law-enforcement service (Economic Crime Administration (UBEP),
division on the fight with the tax offenses GUVD Moscow (ONP), the
members of the scientifically- consultative council of the Supreme
Court RF, the colleagues of the General Procurator's office,
investigation committee of Russia).

6 April 2006 of confluence and absorption - as to avoid the seizure

* the corporate seizures: official view on the problem, the
criminal lawful aspect of seizures, the state policy
* consequences for the business of the future changes of the
legislation in the sphere of fight with the seizures
* as not to become the target of aggressors? * corporate seizures -
view from the side of the judicial authority
* the methods of the protection of the property of company and her
shareholders at the active stage of the corporate fight
* the preliminary and actual methods of protection. Audit the risks
* the urgent procedures of seizures and the algorithms of opposition
to them


Read the representatives of the highest echelons of the
law-enforcement service (investigation committee of Russia), which
practice jurists, specialists in the region of the protection of
business, the authors of a number of publications on the theme.
Seminar takes place 5, on 6 April, 2006, in the hotel "Kosmos", hall
"galaxy". Cost of participation in the seminar of 13..300 rubles
(including NDS).

The beginning of seminar into 900, duration 8 it is hour, into the
cost enter 3 coffee- pauses, dinners in the restaurant and
distributing materials. At completion of seminar to participants
reveal the certificates.

Be connected with us on telephone 7 (926) 212..81..59 and learn about
the reductions. A QUANTITY OF PARTICIPANTS IS LIMITED. YOU HURRY TO
ZEREGISTRIROVAT'SYAOn 3/21/06, fnZelmanx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:









..ПРИГЛАШАЕМ НА ДВУХДНЕВНЫЙ БИЗНЕС-СЕМИНАР..
..«БЕЗОПАСНОСТЬ БИЗНЕСА»..
_5 и 6 апреля 2006 года..
г. Москва, отель «Космос»

_5 апреля 2006 г._

Бизнес и Уголовный закон – взгляд со стороны правоохранительных органов

Оперативные проверки по налоговым и экономическим преступлениям. Прослушивание, истребование документов, опрос. 

Расследование уголовных дел в сфере бизнеса. Следственные действия: выемка, допрос, обыск. 
Соучастие руководителя, бухгалтера и учредителя в налоговых и экономических преступлениях
Предприниматель и его бизнес на судебной стадии уголовного процесса: как разрушается в суде собранная доказательственная базаПрокуратура как орган надзора за следствием оперативными службами. 
Прокуратура как следственный орган: нарушение авторских прав, уголовная ответственность за некачественную продукцию, должностные преступления. 

В семинаре принимают участие представители высших эшелонов правоохранительной службы (Управление по борьбе с экономическими преступлениями (УБЭП), отдел по борьбе с налоговыми правонарушениями ГУВД г. Москвы (ОНП), члены научно-консультативного совета Верховного Суда РФ, сотрудники Генеральной прокуратуры, Следственного комитета России).

6 апреля 2006 года
Слияния и поглощения –  как избежать захвата

Корпоративные захваты: официальный взгляд на проблему, уголовно правовой аспект захватов, государственная политика

Последствия для бизнеса  грядущих изменений законодательства в сфере борьбы с захватами Как не стать мишенью захватчиков?Корпоративные захваты - взгляд со стороны судебной властиСпособы защиты собственности компании и ее акционеров на активной стадии корпоративной борьбы
Предварительные и фактические способы защиты. Аудит рисковАктуальные методики захватов и алгоритмы противодействия им

Читают представители высших эшелонов правоохранительной службы (Следственный комитет России),  практикующие юристы, специалисты в области защиты бизнеса, авторы ряда публикаций по теме.  

Семинар состоится 5, 6 апреля 2006 года в гостинице «Космос», зал «Галактика». 

Стоимость участия в семинаре 13..300 рублей (включая НДС).
Начало семинара в 900,  продолжительность 8 часов, в стоим

Re: for those who care about GNOME^w glib applications.

[Steve Langasek]

Hi Gustavo,

On Tue, Mar 21, 2006 at 11:42:49AM -0300, Gustavo Franco wrote:
> Well, if you're running your favourite glib application and it seems
> to be broken with the output like:
> (...)
> *** glibc detected *** free(): invalid pointer: 0x08ced388 ***

> It's probably due to the new glib (GSlice) memory allocator[0], but
> it's an application bug. Please first check if it's really glib
> related[1].

> There's a workaround that is run the application as follows:
> $ G_SLICE=always-malloc application

Thanks for the information.  Can you explain (or provide a pointer to) why
these bugs are application bugs rather than bugs in glib, and does glib need
to be adding << conflicts with those applications in order to avoid broken
partial upgrades?

Cheers,
-- 
Steve Langasek   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer   to set it on, and I can move the world.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.debian.org/


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Re: Re: Уникальные семинары!

[Daniel Gimpelevich]

On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:41:52 -0800, Hex Star wrote:

> ah...russian spam...translated to english:
[snip]

Why bother?


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Re: Уникальные семинары!

[Paul Johnson]

On Tuesday 21 March 2006 21:08, Daniel Gimpelevich wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:41:52 -0800, Hex Star wrote:
> > ah...russian spam...translated to english:
>
> [snip]
>
> Why bother?

Gotta maximize the propagation of spam as much as possible.  It's important, 
after all!

-- 
Paul Johnson
Email and IM (XMPP & Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jabber: Because it's time to move forward  http://ursine.ca/Ursine:Jabber


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