Bug#357927: ITP: freepbx -- web based management tool for asterisk, replacement for amp

[Stephen Birch]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Stephen Birch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


* Package name: freepbx
  Version : 2.0.1
  Upstream Author : jason_d_becker, rcourtna, tcourtna, etc
* URL : http://sourceforge.net/projects/amportal/
* License : GPS
  Description : web management tool for Asterisk VoIP PBX, replacement for 
AMP

Coalescent Systems Inc. launched the freePBX (formerly Asterisk
Management Portal, AMP) project to bring together best-of-breed applications
to produce a standardized implementation of Asterisk complete with
web-based administrative interface.

This is a web based tool used to manage an Asterisk installation,
setting up extensions, call routes, answering services etc.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: etch
Architecture: All
Kernel: Linux 2.6.8-2-686
Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=C (charmap=ANSI_X3.4-1968)


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Re: The problem with killfiles, and other musings [Was: Re: removal of svenl from the project]

[Steve Langasek]

On Sun, Mar 19, 2006 at 12:28:14PM +0100, Sven Luther wrote:

> I was going to make a large answer where i was going to denouse the
> inexactitudes and false claims of this clearly inflamatory mail, but i will
> refrain from doing so.

> I wonder if Steve, and others of the 'esteemed' DDs, is following his own
> advice, and rereading the mails he writes, and if so, why did he need to add
> such a great amount of ad-hominem attacks again, and what was the added value
> it did bring to his point.

  "So Sven is going to continue to be used here as an illustrative example,
   not because I want to pick on Sven, but because I want to demonstrate the
   plausibility of the problem I'm talking about."

This was *not about you*.  I was not expressing support for expelling you
from the project, I was addressing the fallacious claim that killfiling
people we don't get along with is a fix for conflict.  I'm sorry if you felt
attacked by my mail, but not only was it not ad-hominem (since you were not
making an argument, I could hardly be trying to undercut a non-argument by
attacking your character!), it wasn't a criticism of you *at all*.  It was
only an enumeration of people in the project that I know you have (or have
had) an antagonistic relationship with, and a brief explanation of the
source of those conflicts.  It is a list of people in the project that, if
we were playing by Jonas's rules, I think *might* wish to killfile you.  I
don't see why you should be mad at *me* that I'm able to think of so many
people to put in that category.

> There are others in the project people have a difficult time working with,
> including some of the respected and eminent guys, but nobody would dare
> expulse them for it, or even critic.

We weren't talking about expulsions or criticism, we were talking about
killfiling.  I guess I could use myself as an example here instead of you,
and hypothesize about a group of developers killfiling me in response to the
Vancouver proposal; but killfiling someone just because of a technical
decision you disagree with is even more absurd, and I don't think even Jonas
was suggesting that.

> I mean, Steve mentioned the debian-legal thing, but failed to mention that
> part of my involvement with debian-legal (over the ocaml issue, but
> previously the XFree86 licence mess), made me the receiving end of a
> irc-witch-hunt from branden assufield and a few others i don't remember,
> which would have made andres have an heart attack had he seen it.

Er... how exactly does that invalidate my point about who might want to
killfile you in Jonas's world?  Do you think that your suffering on IRC
negates others' feelings about whether they find you difficult to work with?
Do you think it would be an improvement if, before sending my mail, I had
gotten affidavits from each of the people mentioned, stating how they feel
towards you?

And aren't your follow-ups here a perfect example of why people complain
about you personalizing all discussions?

-- 
Steve Langasek   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer   to set it on, and I can move the world.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.debian.org/


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one binary package created by different source packages, will the old source package disappear?

[Frank Küster]

Hi,

assume the following scenario:

- Source package foo creates binary packages libfoo1 and libfoo-dev
- source package foo2 creates binary packages libfoo2 and libfoo2-dev

Since both versions are API-compatible, libfoo2-dev is renamed to
foo-dev, replacing the old binary package from source package foo.  Will
the complete source package foo have to disappear, or will foo and the
binary package libfoo1 continue to be available?

TIA, Frank
-- 
Frank Küster
Single Molecule Spectroscopy, Protein Folding @ Inst. f. Biochemie, Univ. Zürich
Debian Developer (teTeX)

Re: one binary package created by different source packages, will the old source package disappear?

[Mike Hommey]

On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 12:03:13PM +0100, Frank Küster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> assume the following scenario:
> 
> - Source package foo creates binary packages libfoo1 and libfoo-dev
> - source package foo2 creates binary packages libfoo2 and libfoo2-dev
> 
> Since both versions are API-compatible, libfoo2-dev is renamed to
> foo-dev, replacing the old binary package from source package foo.  Will
> the complete source package foo have to disappear, or will foo and the
> binary package libfoo1 continue to be available?

Everything will be available until you ask removal to ftp masters.

Mike


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library for imap (client)

[Michelle Konzack]

Hello *,

Currently I am starting a new project and want to know, if someone
know the existence if an imapclient library for C programing?

I do not realy want to reinvent the wheel.

Or should I "steal" the routines from other IMAP clients?

Greetings
Michelle Konzack


-- 
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Re: library for imap (client)

[Francesco P. Lovergine]

On Sat, Mar 18, 2006 at 03:49:07PM +0100, Michelle Konzack wrote:
> Currently I am starting a new project and want to know, if someone
> know the existence if an imapclient library for C programing?
> 
libc-client with some limitations...

-- 
Francesco P. Lovergine


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Re: library for imap (client)

[Steve Greenland]

On 18-Mar-06, 08:49 (CST), Michelle Konzack <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> Currently I am starting a new project and want to know, if someone
> know the existence if an imapclient library for C programing?

Michelle, please meet http://www.google.com. Google, meet Michelle.

Steve

-- 
Steve Greenland
The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating
system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the
world.   -- seen on the net


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Re: one binary package created by different source packages, will the old source package disappear?

[Henning Makholm]

Scripsit Frank Küster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> - Source package foo creates binary packages libfoo1 and libfoo-dev
> - source package foo2 creates binary packages libfoo2 and libfoo2-dev

> Since both versions are API-compatible, libfoo2-dev is renamed to
> foo-dev, replacing the old binary package from source package foo.  Will
> the complete source package foo have to disappear,

It absolutely _should_, or be reuploaded with new control and rules
files to create only libfoo1.  Otherwise an attempt to recompile
source package foo (say, for a security fix) risks replacing the new
libfoo-dev with an older one.

Probably a better solution would be to rename libfoo-dev to
libfoo1-dev such that if packages that link to libfoo1 reach stable
there will still be a way to rebuild them for security updates without
adding the new-bug risks of switching to a new implementation of the
library.

-- 
Henning Makholm"It's kind of scary. Win a revolution and
a bunch of lawyers pop out of the woodwork."


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Re: one binary package created by different source packages, will the old source package disappear?

[Jeroen van Wolffelaar]

On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 12:03:13PM +0100, Frank Küster wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> assume the following scenario:
> 
> - Source package foo creates binary packages libfoo1 and libfoo-dev
> - source package foo2 creates binary packages libfoo2 and libfoo2-dev
> 
> Since both versions are API-compatible, libfoo2-dev is renamed to
> foo-dev, replacing the old binary package from source package foo.  Will
> the complete source package foo have to disappear, or will foo and the
> binary package libfoo1 continue to be available?

If foo2 didn't exist yet, you'd most likely want to start your
transition by having a new 'foo' instead, creating libfoo2 and
libfoo-dev. (ABI/SONAME change, but no API change, so -dev remains named
the same). Transition can be done mostly/totally via binnmu's, and
libfoo1 will be semi-automatically dropped.

If foo2 already exists, I'd still go for that solution, but you'll then
need to ask for foo2 removal via a bug to ftp.debian.org.

Because there is API compatibility, I'm assuming here it makes not much
sense to keep both libraries in at the same time. If you want to keep
libfoo1 available (would need a somewhat decent reason, ideally), you'll
need separate source package names (indeed foo2 then), and will need to
make a new upload of 'foo' stopping to provide a -dev package.
Otherwise, ít'll be impossible to do security uploads without making
those changes at that time -- however, libfoo1 will remain available,
even lacking such upload.

N.B.: Such questions are easier to answer (less guessing needed w.r.t.
missing information) given a real example.

--Jeroen

-- 
Jeroen van Wolffelaar
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (also for Jabber & MSN; ICQ: 33944357)
http://Jeroen.A-Eskwadraat.nl


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Re: library for imap (client)

[Bas Zoetekouw]

Hi Michelle!

You wrote:

> Currently I am starting a new project and want to know, if someone
> know the existence if an imapclient library for C programing?
> I do not realy want to reinvent the wheel.

I've used libetpan[1] in the past for some small projects.  It's rather
nice, as it has a single abstract interface to pop, imap, maildir, mbox,
etc.  I don't know how well it scales to large mail collections, though.

[1] http://libetpan.sourceforge.net/

-- 
Kind regards,
++
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|| Fingerprint: c1f5 f24c d514 3fec 8bf6 |
| [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] |  a2b1 2bae e41f 0644 fab7 |
++ 


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Re: one binary package created by different source packages, will the old source package disappear?

[Frank Küster]

Jeroen van Wolffelaar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> N.B.: Such questions are easier to answer (less guessing needed w.r.t.
> missing information) given a real example.

I've noticed that.  I thought it was a simple question regarding the
infrastructure setup, but it turns out not to be...

"foo" in reality is tetex-bin, and last autumn we created a
stripped-down version of the tetex-bin_2.0.2 source package which only
builds the old binary packages libkpathsea3 and libkpathsea-dev.  "foo2"
is tetex-bin_3.0 with binary packages tetex-bin, libkpathsea4 and
libkpathsea4-dev. 

> On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 12:03:13PM +0100, Frank Küster wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> assume the following scenario:
>> 
>> - Source package foo creates binary packages libfoo1 and libfoo-dev
>> - source package foo2 creates binary packages libfoo2 and libfoo2-dev
>> 
>> Since both versions are API-compatible, libfoo2-dev is renamed to
>> foo-dev, replacing the old binary package from source package foo.  Will
>> the complete source package foo have to disappear, or will foo and the
>> binary package libfoo1 continue to be available?
>
> If foo2 didn't exist yet, you'd most likely want to start your
> transition by having a new 'foo' instead, creating libfoo2 and
> libfoo-dev. (ABI/SONAME change, but no API change, so -dev remains named
> the same). 

Back then, we decided against that solution, because we wanted the new
upstream tetex (especially the tetex-bin package) to be able to migrate
to testing without initiating an other library transition (which was
forbidden back then).

> If foo2 already exists, I'd still go for that solution, but you'll then
> need to ask for foo2 removal via a bug to ftp.debian.org.

That's not possible, I think, unfortunately - we don't want teTeX which
currently provides libkpathsea4 in a source package named foo, err,
libkpathsea3. 

We now have tetex-bin_3.0*, libkpathsea4_3.0* and libkpathsea4-dev_3.0
in testing and would like to get rid of libkpathsea3.  In order to make
that easier, it was suggested to rename libkpathsea4-dev to
libkpathsea-dev and request binNMUs of the affected packages.  However,
I was concerned whether that would make the libkpathsea3 binary package
disappear, and make all package uninstallable.

> Because there is API compatibility, I'm assuming here it makes not much
> sense to keep both libraries in at the same time. If you want to keep
> libfoo1 available (would need a somewhat decent reason, ideally),

Just as long as there are still packages that link against it.

> you'll
> need separate source package names (indeed foo2 then), and will need to
> make a new upload of 'foo' stopping to provide a -dev package.
> Otherwise, ít'll be impossible to do security uploads without making
> those changes at that time -- however, libfoo1 will remain available,
> even lacking such upload.

So I guess it would be acceptable to leave the old packages as they are,
wait until all packages have been recompiled and migrated to testing,
and then request removal of the libkpathsea3 binary package?

Regards, Frank


-- 
Frank Küster
Single Molecule Spectroscopy, Protein Folding @ Inst. f. Biochemie, Univ. Zürich
Debian Developer (teTeX)

shared libraries dependecy problem.

[Grzegorz Bizon]

Hi.

I have problem with dependecies on shared libraries in my package
(tleenx2).
Linda complains that:
W: tleenx2; A binary links against a library that is not depended on.
(By the way - shoudn't it be error rather than warning ?)
I have checked binary with objdump and ldd and i got ... simillar but
not the same results.
ldd output shows four more entries than objdump. That is:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/devel/tlen/deb/problem$ diff objdump.output ldd.output 
1d0
< 
51a51,61
> libc6: /lib/ld-linux.so.2
> libpango1.0-0: /usr/lib/libpangoft2-1.0.so.0.1003.1
> libpango1.0-0: /usr/lib/libpangoft2-1.0.so.0
> libfreetype6: /usr/lib/libfreetype.so.6
> libfreetype6: /usr/lib/libfreetype.so.6.3.8
> zlib1g: /usr/lib/libz.so.1
> zlib1g: /usr/lib/libz.so.1.2.3
> libexpat1: /usr/lib/libexpat.so.1
> libexpat1: /usr/lib/libexpat.so.1.0.0
> libpng12-0: /usr/lib/libpng12.so.0.1.2.8
> libpng12-0: /usr/lib/libpng12.so.0
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/devel/tlen/deb/problem$ 

objdump.output and ldd.ouput files are attached (created using simple
script and dpkg -S).

I don't know if I missed something and it is just my mistake, but it
looks strange. This can probably affect linda check results or even
generate invalid package dependecies (what is worse). But of course I
can be wrong. Can, please, somebody explain what is goin on ?;)

Best regards,
 Grzegorz Bizon

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objdump.output
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Bug "last active" indicator?

[Roberto C. Sanchez]

I am wondering if it would be possible to modify the code for
bugs.debian.org to show one additional bit of information.  The last
item of information shown for a bug summary on a b.d.o page is the age
of the bug (that is, how long it has been since the bug was first
opened).  Would it be possible to show, after the age, how long it has
been since the *last* activity?  For example, if you go to
http://bugs.debian.org/wnpp, you will see that one of the first bugs
listed is:

#138873: RFA: isdnbutton -- Start and Stop ISDN connections and display
status
Package: wnpp; Reported by: Roland Rosenfeld <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 4
years and 3 days old.

Following the link for it shows that after the initial RFA was made,
there was no other activity.  What I am suggesting is that the
summary then look like is this:

#138873: RFA: isdnbutton -- Start and Stop ISDN connections and display
status
Package: wnpp; Reported by: Roland Rosenfeld <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Age: 4
years and 3 days old; Last active: 4 years and 3 days ago.

On the other hand, another bug looks like this:

#141693: RFA: gmod -- Module player for Ultrasound and SB AWE soundcards
Package: wnpp; Reported by: Riku Voipio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 3 years
and 347 days old.

However, the bug has had some activity a few months ago and would look
like this:

#141693: RFA: gmod -- Module player for Ultrasound and SB AWE soundcards
Package: wnpp; Reported by: Riku Voipio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Age: 3
years and 347 days old; Last active: 197 days ago.

I think this would help provide additional information at a glance.
Additionally, since the bugs are usually sorted by category and then by
age, it might be worthwhile to add the option to sort by category and by
last active date, or something like that.

If the consensus is that this is generally a good idea, then I intend to
file a bug against bugs.debian.org to request the feature.  Though,
looking at the list of bugs (and their ages) filed against
bugs.debian.org I would welcome any suggestions on how I can help to get
this implemented.

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sanchez
http://familiasanchez.net/~roberto


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Re: dicussion about patches ... ignoring patches make motivation to provide them fall

[Thomas Hood]

Russ Allbery wrote:
> Whenever this topic comes up on debian-devel, the conversation seems to
> focus on the small minority of maintainers who don't respond to bugs, are
> still active on their packages, resist any attempt at co-maintainership,
> and can't be dealt with through the MIA process.


Yes, these are the most frustrating cases.


> Such people, to the
> extent that they exist, are frustrating; they're also such a small
> minority of the problem that if they were all we had to worry about,
> Debian would be in awesome shape.
> [...]
> If you run into a maintainer who doesn't want your help, move on and try
> another maintainer.


It might not be so simple.  Suppose I have taken it upon myself to push
change Foo through Debian.  The Foo project requires cooperation from
several DDs and at the beginning I can't tell whether I will get that
cooperation from all of them.  After having devoted many hours to project
Foo and after the passage of some months I find that progress is blocked
by needed changes to package P.  I write to the maintainer of P but get no
reply.  After repeating this a few times I (finally!) get a message from
the P maintainer... about his having more important things to do than deal
with my patch.  Time goes by and the patch is never spoken of again.  Of
course I move on and do something else.  But I have wasted a lot of time,
Foo never gets done, and I have learned not to undertake any more projects
like Foo in the future.  Not within Debian, anyway.

Purely hypothetical case, but it could happen.
-- 
Thomas Hood


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Re: library for imap (client)

[Michelle Konzack]

Am 2006-03-20 14:33:30, schrieb Bas Zoetekouw:
> Hi Michelle!

> I've used libetpan[1] in the past for some small projects.  It's rather
> nice, as it has a single abstract interface to pop, imap, maildir, mbox,
> etc.  I don't know how well it scales to large mail collections, though.
> 
> [1] http://libetpan.sourceforge.net/

Great, I will check it out.
Oops...  ist in Debian allready...

Greetings
Michelle Konzack


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Re: library for imap (client)

[Ricardo Mones]

On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:33:30 +0100
Bas Zoetekouw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi Michelle!
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> > Currently I am starting a new project and want to know, if someone
> > know the existence if an imapclient library for C programing?
> > I do not realy want to reinvent the wheel.
> 
> I've used libetpan[1] in the past for some small projects.  It's rather
> nice, as it has a single abstract interface to pop, imap, maildir, mbox,
> etc.  I don't know how well it scales to large mail collections, though.
> 
> [1] http://libetpan.sourceforge.net/

  It's already used in at least 2 MUAs (packages: sylpheed-claws-gtk2
and etpan-ng). Using claws I've regularly handled IMAP inboxes of 20k
mails without trouble. I don't know for larger values of "large" though.

  regards,
-- 
  Ricardo Mones.  


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Re: dicussion about patches ... ignoring patches make motivation to provide them fall

[Frans Pop]

On Monday 20 March 2006 16:04, Thomas Hood wrote:
> It might not be so simple.  Suppose I have taken it upon myself to push
> change Foo through Debian.  The Foo project requires cooperation from
> several DDs and at the beginning I can't tell whether I will get that
> cooperation from all of them.  After having devoted many hours to
> project Foo and after the passage of some months I find that progress
> is blocked by needed changes to package P.  I write to the maintainer
> of P but get no reply.  After repeating this a few times I (finally!)
> get a message from the P maintainer... about his having more important
> things to do than deal with my patch.

Alternative conclusion to this saga...
I discuss on d-devel if the Foo project is a worthwhile goal and how I've 
gotten stuck. There is general agreement that Foo is worth pushing for 
the next release. I ask for a review of/help with my patches to the 
packages that block progress, deal with the comments that come back and 
NMU them (after mailing the maintainer one last time). Foo makes it into 
the next release.


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Bug#358003: ITP: ttf-dzongkha -- TrueType fonts for Dzongkha language

[Christian Perrier]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Christian Perrier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: ttf-dzongkha
  Version : 0.1
  Upstream Author : Chris Fynn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=115503
* License : GPL
  Description : TrueType fonts for Dzongkha language

 This package includes fonts that are suitable for the display of the Dzongkha
 language.

PS: the listed upstream author is the author of the only font currently
available to be included in the package. More fonts could come up later, the
upstream package being managed by the Department of Informati�onTechnology,
Timphu, Bhutan.



-- System Information:
Debian Release: testing/unstable
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable'), (500, 'testing'), (500, 'stable')
Architecture: i386 (i686)
Shell:  /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash
Kernel: Linux 2.6.15-1-686
Locale: LANG=fr_FR.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=fr_FR.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8) (ignored: LC_ALL 
set to fr_FR.UTF-8)

Bug#358009: ITP: rcov -- a code coverage tool for Ruby

[Ari Pollak]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Ari Pollak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: rcov
  Version : 0.2.0
  Upstream Author : Mauricio Fernandez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://eigenclass.org/hiki.rb?rcov
* License : Dual GPL/Ruby license, includes a modified BSD-style
licensed library
  Description : a code coverage tool for Ruby

rcov is a code coverage tool for Ruby. It improves on the better known coverage
tool, Ruby Coverage, in a number of points:

* 20-300 times faster: typically, the program being inspected runs only 
~3
  times slower than without rcov (i.e. not 200 times slower as with previous
  tools)

* more accurate coverage information through code linkage inference 
using
  simple heuristics
* more convenient interface
* additional features like bogo-profile mode, colorblind-friendliness...


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Re: Bug#349693: ITP: gst-fluendo-mp3 -- MP3 decoder plugin for GStreamer

[Florian Weimer]

* Josselin Mouette:

>> There is no difference between decoders and encoders.  Both require
>> patent licenses.
>
> But as I understand it, only the encoding patents are enforceable.

I've never seen a compelling argument why this should be the case.
The arguments looked more or less like wishful thinking to me.

> If we start to remove software from main just because some random
> companies claim they have patents covering it, we can stop to
> distribute Debian entirely.

Sure, but these aren't "random companies".  Some of the patents aren't
obviously invalid (except for the general "software patents are
illegal in Europe" stance), so it's not exactly like the JPEG
situation.


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Re: Bug#349693: ITP: gst-fluendo-mp3 -- MP3 decoder plugin for GStreamer

[Florian Weimer]

* Russell Coker:

> This factor makes it significantly different from the other programs
> which are afflicted with patent claims.  If Thomson has made clear
> statements about a common use case of software based on their
> patents in Debian then it's quite different to a battle between
> Adobe and Macromedia.

Apparently, it is, because you can still download several free
encoders.  Furthermore, nobody's got a strategic MP3 encoder project,
I guess.  Things could go wild only if the entertainment industry
realizes that better encoders are a prerequisite to efficient content
distribution, and puts pressure on the patent owners to enforce their
patents. 8-P

(Adobe and Macromedia?  Hmm, maybe I should answer my mail more
quickly.)


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Re: First AMD64 Binary Uploaded

[Florian Weimer]

* Goswin von Brederlow:

>>> Anything that runs from current amd64.debian.net or its mirrors.
>>
>> Both debian-amd64 and debian-pure64?  Great, thanks.
>
> They are just aliases for the same thing since always.

Oh, this wasn't clear from the FAQ.  Fortunately, all this is now OBE.


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Question about cdrecord developement

[chinlu chinawa]

Hi,

I've been trying to retrieve from a cdrom as much vendor's info as possible.

Thanks of cdrecord source code I can retrieve some of it. However, and
although I've been looking where to ask (including any related mailing
list within the debian project), haven't seen it.

I just wanted to ask whether it would be possible to retrieve some sort
of serial number for a cdrom that would be unique, either because it's
got such info on it, or playing with some data, some static data.

Any clues? Please cc me, as I'm not subscribed.

Thanks a lot.

Re: DPL Debate prepared questions list [Debian Policy Sucks]

[Ritesh Raj Sarraf]

On Tuesday 21 March 2006 00:08, Adrian von Bidder wrote:
> On Saturday 18 March 2006 17:32, Roland Mas wrote:
> > Thaddeus H. Black, 2006-03-18 16:00:11 +0100 :
> > > It appears that to have a Enterprise Grade Debian Distribution, we
> > > need a SPOC [ed.: Single Point of Contact?] team which can address
> > > Enterprise demands quickly.
> >
> >   Yeah, and its members should have pointy ears and a puzzled raised
> > eyebrow.
>
> Nah, a fancy letterhead, a certfied logo program and very high fees should
> suffice.
>

You guys are good at making fun. But is that all ??

Forgive me if I've not done my homework but IMO Debian Policy sucks.

I had installed Debian Sarge at one of my client's location.
The machine serves as a NAT and does Web Content Filtering. The machine has 
Intel 1000MT NIC.

Now, there was a known issue with those cards with e1000 driver upto kernel 
2.6.11, IIRC. 
Sarge shipped with 2.6.8. Now the Debian policy says _only_ security updates 
are allowed to Debian Stable.
Fixes like Feature Enhancement of Hardware Bug Fix aren't part of Debian 
Stable.

So what do you people suggest in such cases:
1) Intel 1000MT NIC sucks, throw it away ?
2) Unh! Why don't you change to Debian Unstable ?
3) Buddy! We are all volunteers. Go and roll your own kernel with the 
patches ?
4) Wait! That hardware isn't officially supported by us. Build only machines 
which are known to work with Debian Stable?

I ended up going with point number 2. But really, next time I might think of 
another distribution before deployment.

Thanks,
Ritesh
-- 
Ritesh Raj Sarraf
RESEARCHUT -- http://www.researchut.com
"Necessity is the mother of invention."
"Stealing logic from one person is plagiarism, stealing from many is 
research."


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Re: Bug#358003: ITP: ttf-dzongkha -- TrueType fonts for Dzongkha language

[Drew Parsons]

> Package: wnpp
> Severity: wishlist
> Owner: Christian Perrier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> 
>  This package includes fonts that are suitable for the display of the Dzongkha
>  language.
> 

May I suggest for rare languages like this that you also mention in the
description where the language comes from? (Bhutan in this case, isn't
it?)

Thanks,

Drew


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Re: shared libraries dependecy problem.

[Steve Langasek]

On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 03:59:04PM +0100, Grzegorz Bizon wrote:

> I have problem with dependecies on shared libraries in my package
> (tleenx2).
> Linda complains that:
> W: tleenx2; A binary links against a library that is not depended on.
> (By the way - shoudn't it be error rather than warning ?)
> I have checked binary with objdump and ldd and i got ... simillar but
> not the same results.
> ldd output shows four more entries than objdump.

It's normal for ldd to show more than objdump: ldd is recursive, listing all
the objects that are actually loaded, and objdump is not recursive.

I don't know which one linda uses in its checks, though I would hope it's
objdump.

-- 
Steve Langasek   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer   to set it on, and I can move the world.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.debian.org/


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Re: DPL Debate prepared questions list [Debian Policy Sucks]

[Joey Hess]

Ritesh Raj Sarraf wrote:
> So what do you people suggest in such cases:
> 1) Intel 1000MT NIC sucks, throw it away ?
> 2) Unh! Why don't you change to Debian Unstable ?
> 3) Buddy! We are all volunteers. Go and roll your own kernel with the 
> patches ?
> 4) Wait! That hardware isn't officially supported by us. Build only machines 
> which are known to work with Debian Stable?

5) etch beta 2 was released last week with support for your hardware

-- 
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Re: question on hurd-i386 Debian architecture

[Daniel Ruoso]

Em Sáb, 2006-03-18 às 23:17 +0100, Pjotr Kourzanov escreveu:
> Yes. However, I think that 'setting up buildd' is the least difficult
> of those tasks. It is by far more difficult to produce patches for all
> 'standard debian packages' that make them first of all, cross-compile
> correctly, and (only) then make them uClibc-friendly.

Sorry, I don't get it. Debian has support for several architectures, why
a sub-arch would be harder? Many packages will just work. Remember that
in such sub-arch, we can have uclibc-dev replacing libc6-dev, solving
the builddeps...

Have you ever seen uwoody[1]? there are not so many patches as you're
claiming to be necessary... I'm really lost about what are you talking
about...

[1] http://people.debian.org/~andersee/uwoody/


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Re: dicussion about patches ... ignoring patches make motivation toprovide them fall

[Nathanael Nerode]

Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:

So yes, I believe we need to work on the long-term "ignored" bugs. :)


Those are essentially all I work on.

It's a good thing I have a thick skin.  Some maintainers are genuinely grateful 
for the
assistance, and they're a pleasure to work with.  (This includes the X Strike 
Force, although
they are really a bit snowed under and so you have to push a bit to get a bug 
addressed.)
Some maintainers are basically MIA, but won't give up their packages, and 
they're more
annoying, but they usually accede to reality eventually, and are OK to work 
with.

Some few maintainers are obnoxious and anti-helpful.  All of these have bugs 
which have had
a patch attached to them for a long time without mantainer comment (not even 
'no, this
patch doesn't work because X').  However, not all such bugs reflect 
anti-helpful maintainers;
many reflect MIA, busy, or distracted maintainers, so one has to poke them to 
find out
whether one gets a rude reply, no reply, or a "thank you" reply.

Sorry about the thread-breaking again.  Can't help it on this machine; will try 
not to
post from here again.



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automatically install -dev packages

[David Griffith]

Is there a setting somewhere I can set to cause apt-get and aptitude to
always install corresponding -dev packages?  The default behavior of not
installing them is particularly annoying when dealing with libraries that
are installed when the OS itself is installed.

-- 
David Griffith
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: cross-compiling Debian packages

[Nikita V. Youshchenko]

> I hope that my patches (#357629,  #357658
> , #357661
> ) are proper enough:-)

This is incomplete: not only libgcc does not provide -dcv1, but libstdc++ 
and -dev and -dbg.
Would you be so kind to post undeted patches to these bugs?


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e1000 support in Debian [Was: Re: DPL Debate prepared questions list [Debian Policy Sucks]]

[Steve Langasek]

On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 03:39:45PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote:
> Ritesh Raj Sarraf wrote:
> > So what do you people suggest in such cases:
> > 1) Intel 1000MT NIC sucks, throw it away ?
> > 2) Unh! Why don't you change to Debian Unstable ?
> > 3) Buddy! We are all volunteers. Go and roll your own kernel with the 
> > patches ?
> > 4) Wait! That hardware isn't officially supported by us. Build only 
> > machines 
> > which are known to work with Debian Stable?

> 5) etch beta 2 was released last week with support for your hardware

If this is the issue I think it is, sarge does support the hardware but the
kernel isn't configured to support large frames on it in GigE mode.  I'm not
aware that this issue has been resolved yet in the kernels for etch either;
the issue had earlier been clouded by concerns over the reliability of this
kernel configure option, owing to confusion with a similarly named option
for a different card.

-- 
Steve Langasek   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer   to set it on, and I can move the world.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.debian.org/


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Re: DPL Debate prepared questions list [Debian Policy Sucks]

[Ritesh Raj Sarraf]

On Tuesday 21 March 2006 02:09, Joey Hess wrote:
> Ritesh Raj Sarraf wrote:
> > So what do you people suggest in such cases:
> > 1) Intel 1000MT NIC sucks, throw it away ?
> > 2) Unh! Why don't you change to Debian Unstable ?
> > 3) Buddy! We are all volunteers. Go and roll your own kernel with the
> > patches ?
> > 4) Wait! That hardware isn't officially supported by us. Build only
> > machines which are known to work with Debian Stable?
>
> 5) etch beta 2 was released last week with support for your hardware

So my question is:
I discovered it today. But there might have been many Debian Users who might 
have discovered this issue earlier. What choice are they given ?

Is the choice:
Wait till etch gets released ?

RHEL and SLES do a damn good job of Hardware Bug Fixing and Feature 
Enhancement for the software they ship.

Why can't we do it ? Is it just because our policy doesn't allow it ?
Can't we revise the policy ?

Thanks,
Ritesh
-- 
Ritesh Raj Sarraf
RESEARCHUT -- http://www.researchut.com
"Necessity is the mother of invention."
"Stealing logic from one person is plagiarism, stealing from many is 
research."


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Re: DPL Debate prepared questions list [Debian Policy Sucks]

[Marco d'Itri]

On Mar 20, Ritesh Raj Sarraf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> So what do you people suggest in such cases:
If you need a distribution which supports modern hardware, then you
should switch to Ubuntu.

-- 
ciao,
Marco


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Re: shared libraries dependecy problem.

[Benjamin Seidenberg]

Grzegorz Bizon wrote:
> Hi.
>
> I have problem with dependecies on shared libraries in my package
> (tleenx2).
> Linda complains that:
> W: tleenx2; A binary links against a library that is not depended on.
> (By the way - shoudn't it be error rather than warning ?)
>   

Linda seems to be doing this with all packages with ELF binaries for me.
Random sample from /var/cache/apt/archives:

W: bash; A binary links against a library that is not depended on.
W: bsdutils; A binary links against a library that is not depended on.
W: cdparanoia; A binary links against a library that is not depended on.
W: coreutils; A binary links against a library that is not depended on.
W: cron; A binary links against a library that is not depended on.
W: curl; A binary links against a library that is not depended on.




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Re: DPL Debate prepared questions list [Debian Policy Sucks]

[Don Armstrong]

On Tue, 21 Mar 2006, Ritesh Raj Sarraf wrote:
> On Tuesday 21 March 2006 02:09, Joey Hess wrote:
> > 5) etch beta 2 was released last week with support for your
> > hardware
> 
> But there might have been many Debian Users who might have
> discovered this issue earlier. What choice are they given ?

They could have used an Etch nightly, or any number of other methods
to get a kernel that supports their hardware running... it's not all
that difficult to do.[1] [And if it's a problem, there are consultants
available to do it for you.]

> Why can't we do it? 

Want to release faster? There are RC bugs that need patches, and
transitions that need planning.

Want to make sure that the next release supports your hardware? Help
test your hardware with the newest d-i nightlies and assist the d-i
team.


Don Armstrong

1: I suppose it may be considered cheating for any of us to declare
that something is "easy to do" when we can just do an install using
debootstrap...
-- 
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victory, it is about death. I've seen thousands and thousands of dead
bodies. Do you think I want to have an academic debate on this
subject?"
 -- Robert Fisk

http://www.donarmstrong.com  http://rzlab.ucr.edu


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Re: question on hurd-i386 Debian architecture

[peter.kourzanov]

On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 05:41:26PM -0300, Daniel Ruoso wrote:
> Em S?b, 2006-03-18 ?s 23:17 +0100, Pjotr Kourzanov escreveu:
> > Yes. However, I think that 'setting up buildd' is the least difficult
> > of those tasks. It is by far more difficult to produce patches for all
> > 'standard debian packages' that make them first of all, cross-compile
> > correctly, and (only) then make them uClibc-friendly.
> 
> Sorry, I don't get it. Debian has support for several architectures, why

  Supported architectures, yes. But what about un-supported ones, such
  as i386-uclibc?

> a sub-arch would be harder? Many packages will just work. Remember that
> in such sub-arch, we can have uclibc-dev replacing libc6-dev, solving
> the builddeps...

  Yeah, hopefully this will just work. From my experience, however,
  some minimal but still significant amount of patching will be
  needed.

> 
> Have you ever seen uwoody[1]? there are not so many patches as you're
> claiming to be necessary... I'm really lost about what are you talking
> about...
> 
> [1] http://people.debian.org/~andersee/uwoody/
> 

  I've heard that uwoody is abandoned by its originator... which is
  the reason I stopped looking at that. Is there BTW any comparable
  effort for sarge/etch?

> 
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Release Date Update

[Mark Shuttleworh]

Guys, you know putting the first freeze date before the end of the summer is 
foolish.  Many people do their best coding during the summer.


Debian should make sure The freeze begins after a whole summer of good 
coding and adding new features, like at the end of August or the begginnig 
of September.


Then the summer could be devoted to the coding of new and exciting features 
while it is most convienient.  Then you can spend the rest of the year and 
the begging of next year debugging.  Then you have a few months off before 
the summer major code fest.  This would give Debian a good one year release 
cycle wher you maximize your time over the summer to add new features.



--
Mark

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Re: Release Date Update

[Michael Banck]

On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 02:51:25PM -0800, Mark Shuttleworh wrote:
[...]
Before anybody gets to reply to the body, this is a fake.

Mark Shuttleworth doesn't use a hotmail adress to send mail to lists.


YHBT, HAND,

Michael


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Re: DPL Debate prepared questions list [Debian Policy Sucks]

[Bernhard R. Link]

* Ritesh Raj Sarraf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [060320 22:14]:
> RHEL and SLES do a damn good job of Hardware Bug Fixing and Feature 
> Enhancement for the software they ship.
> 
> Why can't we do it ? Is it just because our policy doesn't allow it ?
> Can't we revise the policy ?

Of course policies can be revisited. Stable could also be abolished
and only unstable be shipped, if that gets decided.

Fixes to stable releases are always tricky as they are supposed to
be stable. Important bugs fixes are always a good goal, but they
always have to be balanced against possible unintended damages
any change can have. I haven't looked at this case, but in the
general case possibly suddenly no longer supporting something
that was supported before in that stable release is much worse
than not adding support for new cases, as things that worked
are likely to be in production new, things that did not work
are annoying and sad, but only annoying and not hurting people
relying on a something advertised as stable keeping stable.

Hochachtungsvoll,
  Bernhard R. Link


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Re: Release Date Update

[Colin Watson]

On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 02:51:25PM -0800, Mark Shuttleworh wrote:

(In case it wasn't clear, this wasn't Mark Shuttlewor*t*h posting.
Please don't feed the troll.)

-- 
Colin Watson   [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: DPL Debate prepared questions list [Debian Policy Sucks]

[Arnt Karlsen]

On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 02:43:38 +0530, Ritesh wrote in message 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> On Tuesday 21 March 2006 02:09, Joey Hess wrote:
> > Ritesh Raj Sarraf wrote:
> > > So what do you people suggest in such cases:
> > > 1) Intel 1000MT NIC sucks, throw it away ?
> > > 2) Unh! Why don't you change to Debian Unstable ?
> > > 3) Buddy! We are all volunteers. Go and roll your own kernel with
> > > the patches ?
> > > 4) Wait! That hardware isn't officially supported by us. Build
> > > only machines which are known to work with Debian Stable?
> >
> > 5) etch beta 2 was released last week with support for your hardware
> 
> So my question is:
> I discovered it today. But there might have been many Debian Users who
> might  have discovered this issue earlier. What choice are they given
> ?
> 
> Is the choice:
> Wait till etch gets released ?
> 
> RHEL and SLES do a damn good job of Hardware Bug Fixing and Feature 
> Enhancement for the software they ship.
> 
> Why can't we do it ? Is it just because our policy doesn't allow it ?
> Can't we revise the policy ?

..we can't?  I (not yet a DD) thought this was a simple case of 
6)  Somebody Volonteer Patches!  ;o)

-- 
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o)
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.



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Re: Release Date Update

[Joey Hess]

someone claiming to be Mark Shuttleworh wrote:
> Guys, you know putting the first freeze date before the end of the summer 
> is foolish.  Many people do their best coding during the summer.

Nice troll, but you need to work on your headers.

-- 
see shy jo


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I like the new Release

[Greg Conner]

It make be fake but is it a bad idea?  A release every year and afterr a 
good summer of work?  Does anybody have a better idea?


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Re: Release Date Update

[Ron Johnson]

On Mon, 2006-03-20 at 23:15 +, Colin Watson wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 02:51:25PM -0800, Mark Shuttleworh wrote:
> 
> (In case it wasn't clear, this wasn't Mark Shuttlewor*t*h posting.
> Please don't feed the troll.)

Even so, are his points valid?

-- 
-
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson, LA USA

"Passivity is one of the tools of authoritarianism."
Pope John Paul 2


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Re: Release Date Update

[Jeremy Stanley]

On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 05:39:23PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On Mon, 2006-03-20 at 23:15 +, Colin Watson wrote:
> > On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 02:51:25PM -0800, Mark Shuttleworh wrote:
> > 
> > (In case it wasn't clear, this wasn't Mark Shuttlewor*t*h posting.
> > Please don't feed the troll.)
> 
> Even so, are his points valid?

Questionable... For starters, there is no global Summer, so what
hemisphere would Debian choose to favor? Seems a little silly to me.
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Re: automatically install -dev packages

[Steve Greenland]

On 20-Mar-06, 14:37 (CST), David Griffith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> Is there a setting somewhere I can set to cause apt-get and aptitude to
> always install corresponding -dev packages?  The default behavior of not
> installing them is particularly annoying when dealing with libraries that
> are installed when the OS itself is installed.

Nope, there's no such option. 

If you're (re-)building Debian packages, there's an option to "apt-get
source" that also grabs the build dependencies.

For some of the bigger suites (Gnome, KDE, etc.) look for a high-level
blah-devel package that brings in pretty much everything you need
to do development for that suite. Or at least there used to be such
packages...

Otherwise, your best bet may be to fire up aptitude and step through the
libdevel section, picking out the ones you want. Note that you don't
have to pick all of them, just the ones you explicitly want, and let the
dependency system pull in anything they need.

Steve
-- 
Steve Greenland
The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating
system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the
world.   -- seen on the net


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Re: I like the new Release

[Dagfinn Ilmari Mannsåker]

"Greg Conner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> It make be fake but is it a bad idea?  A release every year and afterr a
> good summer of work?  Does anybody have a better idea?

FWIW: According to the headers, this mail is sent from the same machine
as the original fake.

-- 
ilmari


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Re: e1000 support in Debian [Was: Re: DPL Debate prepared questions list [Debian Policy Sucks]]

[Olaf van der Spek]

On 3/20/06, Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 03:39:45PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote:
> > Ritesh Raj Sarraf wrote:
> > > So what do you people suggest in such cases:
> > > 1) Intel 1000MT NIC sucks, throw it away ?
> > > 2) Unh! Why don't you change to Debian Unstable ?
> > > 3) Buddy! We are all volunteers. Go and roll your own kernel with the
> > > patches ?
> > > 4) Wait! That hardware isn't officially supported by us. Build only 
> > > machines
> > > which are known to work with Debian Stable?
>
> > 5) etch beta 2 was released last week with support for your hardware
>
> If this is the issue I think it is, sarge does support the hardware but the
> kernel isn't configured to support large frames on it in GigE mode.  I'm not
> aware that this issue has been resolved yet in the kernels for etch either;
> the issue had earlier been clouded by concerns over the reliability of this
> kernel configure option, owing to confusion with a similarly named option
> for a different card.

Would that really be *the* issue for a NAT box?

Re: I like the new Release

[Roberto C. Sanchez]

Dagfinn Ilmari Mannsåker wrote:
> "Greg Conner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> 
>>It make be fake but is it a bad idea?  A release every year and afterr a
>>good summer of work?  Does anybody have a better idea?
> 
> 
> FWIW: According to the headers, this mail is sent from the same machine
> as the original fake.
> 

$ host 128.187.0.165
165.0.187.128.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer tmcb-u110-3N1E-CE2.byu.edu.

It must be SCO.  They have cleverly disguised themselves as BYU
students.  :-)

-Roberto

-- 
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http://familiasanchez.net/~roberto



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Re: DPL Debate prepared questions list [Debian Policy Sucks]

[Manoj Srivastava]

On 20 Mar 2006, Ritesh Raj Sarraf said this:

> So what do you people suggest in such cases:
> 1) Intel 1000MT NIC sucks, throw it away ?
> 2) Unh! Why don't you change to Debian Unstable ?
> 3) Buddy! We are all volunteers. Go and roll your own kernel with
>the
> patches ?
> 4) Wait! That hardware isn't officially supported by us. Build only machines 
> which are known to work with Debian Stable?

  5) Set up a site for backports where people can go to. You know, you
 don't have to be a DD to do that.

> I ended up going with point number 2. But really, next time I might
> think of another distribution before deployment.

That is always a wise move -- you should always see what fits
 you best. No distribution is for everyone.

manoj
-- 
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municipality. Local ordinance, Euclid Ohio
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Re: e1000 support in Debian [Was: Re: DPL Debate prepared questions list [Debian Policy Sucks]]

[Steve Langasek]

On Tue, Mar 21, 2006 at 01:01:28AM +0100, Olaf van der Spek wrote:
> On 3/20/06, Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 03:39:45PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote:
> > > Ritesh Raj Sarraf wrote:
> > > > So what do you people suggest in such cases:
> > > > 1) Intel 1000MT NIC sucks, throw it away ?
> > > > 2) Unh! Why don't you change to Debian Unstable ?
> > > > 3) Buddy! We are all volunteers. Go and roll your own kernel with the
> > > > patches ?
> > > > 4) Wait! That hardware isn't officially supported by us. Build only 
> > > > machines
> > > > which are known to work with Debian Stable?

> > > 5) etch beta 2 was released last week with support for your hardware

> > If this is the issue I think it is, sarge does support the hardware but the
> > kernel isn't configured to support large frames on it in GigE mode.  I'm not
> > aware that this issue has been resolved yet in the kernels for etch either;
> > the issue had earlier been clouded by concerns over the reliability of this
> > kernel configure option, owing to confusion with a similarly named option
> > for a different card.

> Would that really be *the* issue for a NAT box?

No, probably not.  I guess this is about some unrelated issue specific to a
particular e1000 model.

-- 
Steve Langasek   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer   to set it on, and I can move the world.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.debian.org/


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Re: DPL Debate prepared questions list [Debian Policy Sucks]

[Anthony DeRobertis]

Ritesh Raj Sarraf wrote:
Now, there was a known issue with those cards with e1000 driver upto kernel 
2.6.11, IIRC. 
  
Hmmm, and 2.6.12 panics (bug #327355 ) 
when I try and use the tape drive on my machine. New versions not only 
fix bugs, but introduce new ones, too.


[PS: Which e1000 bug are you referring to?]


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Re: DPL Debate prepared questions list [Debian Policy Sucks]

[Martin Michlmayr]

* Anthony DeRobertis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-03-20 20:04]:
> Hmmm, and 2.6.12 panics (bug #327355 ) 
> when I try and use the tape drive on my machine. New versions not only 

Anthony, do you still see this bug with 2.6.15 or (better yet) 2.6.16?
(will be uploaded tomorrow).
-- 
Martin Michlmayr
http://www.cyrius.com/


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So we got caught, so what? But we did the right thing.

[Greg Conner]

It must be SCO.  They have cleverly disguised themselves as BYU
students.  :-)

-Roberto


So we got caught trying to br BYU students.  You guys win that battle.

But you have to admit at least we care enough about Debian that we are 
willing to make suggestions.  We don't want to offend anyone in particular, 
but you guys have a talent for computers, but your leadership is failing in 
the bright ideas department.  Besides programming issues, what great ideas 
has any leadership put forth to keep bring Debian to levels and hieghts not 
even imagined by anyone.


The real reason Ubuntu does so well is they have not only programming skills 
but a leader with incredible vision and new ideas, something DPLs and others 
seem to not.  As evidence where are the constant DPL's great ideas for the 
future of Debian?  All the voting issues and debated issues are over things 
like "GFDL position" or throwing people out of Debian.  Nobdoy ever posts 
anything concerning a vision for the future. NOBODY! except non DDs.  YOu 
all just don't seem to care.


WITH THE PROGRAMMING SKILLS YOU ALL HAVE, IF YOU WOULD TRY TO PUT THE 
BIGGEST VISIONARY AS DPL, HE/SHE WILL TAKE YOU TO LEVELS NOT EXPERIENCED.  
ALL ~970 OF YOU.


I know you will ignore this or say don't feed the troll, but the man/woman 
developer with enough guts to say to the rest of the DDs, "Debain could do 
so much better, here's some ideas" is the DD we will have so much respect 
for.



PS.. For further evidence on how poor your leadership is, I refer you to how 
much caos there is on your mailing lists.


You can't keep your release managers: 
http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/03/msg8.html


You have no control over your ftpmasters who act like they run the world.

You do nothing but put each other down.  I refere top all the posts about 
svenl.  You all don't know how to work together at all.


You have the biggest reputation of all distros as being jerks to others.  
Then pawn off your cowardice by saying "we're all just volunteers"


You lose half your Developer wannabies, NMs, because your mentor program is 
lousy and you are more worried about making people suffer through the 
buracracy allowing  people who honestly want to help Debian to do so. See 
http://lists.debian.org/debian-newmaint/2005/12/msg4.html


You say it takes you guys a long time to release packages because you want 
them bug free.  HA!!!   Things like gnome 2.12 come out and it isn't 
in Unstable for like 3 months.  It would take less time to get packages 
ready for stable if you would put them in Unstable.


You talk about how much care you put into finding good developers, but you 
can't even get them to work for you:  
http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/01/msg4.html

YOu have to threaten them to work, and yet the bugs are still there.

etc...  we could keep going but there is not enough time in the day.

In short, get a new Leadership,(WE are aware of new DPL Elections), but who 
are you going to elect?  And there are more to your leadership problems than 
the DPL.


Our advice to you all is get some control of yourselves, and some leadership 
with good ideas and clear goals that are revolutionary.  Or start working 
for Ubuntu, at least they have leadership with the right quality.


_
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® 
Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963



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Re: DPL Debate prepared questions list [Debian Policy Sucks]

[Rui Silva]

UBUNTU realy works, and is stable. I've instaled it on a few servers now, and i'm quite happy with it.but my question is. Why don't you just build your own kernel from source. download the vannilla souces and do it.
it's not that hard on debian. it's easier on gentoo, but in debian it's almost equaly easy why don't you try .:)Since debian is build thru volunteer, why don't you contribute whith something...
 build your kernel, build it with lot's of options and post the .deb on a website. help yourself an help debian at the same timeRUI SILVAOn 3/20/06, 
Marco d'Itri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:On Mar 20, Ritesh Raj Sarraf <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> So what do you people suggest in such cases:If you need a distribution which supports modern hardware, then youshould switch to Ubuntu.
--ciao,Marco-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux)iD8DBQFEHyW1FGfw2OHuP7ERAvvEAJ0aDMtkykFLxxp1UO8QLjMtzS0keQCfanpLrelsQMj37tIRTHXqqXnPQfk==zRQu
-END PGP SIGNATURE--- Rui SilvaPowered by Gentoo Linux under :CELERON 1000 - Stage1 install with nptlPentium M 1800GHz - Stage1 install with NPTL
http://rukinhas.no-ip.org

Re: DPL Debate prepared questions list [Debian Policy Sucks]

[Martin Michlmayr]

* Rui Silva <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-03-21 01:02]:
> Since debian is build thru volunteer, why don't you contribute whith
> something...

FWIW, kmuto-san has prepated sarge d-i images with a modern kernel:
http://kmuto.jp/b.cgi/debian/d-i-2615.htm
And backports.org has modern kernels for sarge.
-- 
Martin Michlmayr
http://www.cyrius.com/


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Re: DPL Debate prepared questions list [Debian Policy Sucks]

[Anthony DeRobertis]

Martin Michlmayr wrote:

Anthony, do you still see this bug with 2.6.15 or (better yet) 2.6.16?
(will be uploaded tomorrow).
  
2.6.15, yes. I'll check 2.6.16 when it hits unstable (I'm guessing, 
though I still need to test, that the ide-tape cleanup in 2.6.9 borked it)



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Re: Release Date Update

[Ron Johnson]

On Mon, 2006-03-20 at 23:45 +, Jeremy Stanley wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 05:39:23PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> > On Mon, 2006-03-20 at 23:15 +, Colin Watson wrote:
> > > On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 02:51:25PM -0800, Mark Shuttleworh wrote:
> > > 
> > > (In case it wasn't clear, this wasn't Mark Shuttlewor*t*h posting.
> > > Please don't feed the troll.)
> > 
> > Even so, are his points valid?
> 
> Questionable... For starters, there is no global Summer, so what
> hemisphere would Debian choose to favor? Seems a little silly to me.

Well, true.  I confess to northernhemisphereoentrism.

Still, even though Brazil, ANZ & South Africa are down under, the 
vast bulk of the world population lives in the Northern Hemisphere.

-- 
-
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson, LA USA

"Basically, I got on the plane with a bomb. Basically, I tried to
ignite it. Basically, yeah, I intended to damage the plane."
RICHARD REID, tried to blow up American Airlines Flight 63


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Re: one binary package created by different source packages, will the old source package disappear?

[Steve Langasek]

On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 03:33:22PM +0100, Frank Küster wrote:
> > If foo2 already exists, I'd still go for that solution, but you'll then
> > need to ask for foo2 removal via a bug to ftp.debian.org.

> That's not possible, I think, unfortunately - we don't want teTeX which
> currently provides libkpathsea4 in a source package named foo, err,
> libkpathsea3. 

> We now have tetex-bin_3.0*, libkpathsea4_3.0* and libkpathsea4-dev_3.0
> in testing and would like to get rid of libkpathsea3.  In order to make
> that easier, it was suggested to rename libkpathsea4-dev to
> libkpathsea-dev and request binNMUs of the affected packages.  However,
> I was concerned whether that would make the libkpathsea3 binary package
> disappear, and make all package uninstallable.

It will not make libkpathsea3 disappear or make it uninstallable.  It will
make the libkpathsea3 source package RC buggy, since it will not be possible
to do further uploads of the package (for, e.g, security fixes) without
either a) overwriting the new libkpathsea-dev that you want to keep, or b)
resulting in a rejected upload due to the out-of-date version of
libkpathsea-dev.

Since (AIUI) you want to drop libkpathsea3 completely for etch, though, that
doesn't seem like a problem.

-- 
Steve Langasek   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer   to set it on, and I can move the world.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.debian.org/


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Re: Release Date Update

[Manoj Srivastava]

On 20 Mar 2006, Ron Johnson said:

> Well, true.  I confess to northernhemisphereoentrism.
>
> Still, even though Brazil, ANZ & South Africa are down under, the 
> vast bulk of the world population lives in the Northern Hemisphere.

The premise is also weak. Man, in the summer, I want to be
 out. Day trips. Picnics. Sports. County fairs. Winter is when one
 hunkers down in the warmth of the house and codes.

With a global project, made of diverse contributors, any
 statement like witer is better! No, Summer is better! is sily, naive,
 shallow, and probably incorrect.

manoj
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Re: I like the new Release

[Manoj Srivastava]

On 20 Mar 2006, Greg Conner outgrape:

>
> It make be fake but is it a bad idea?  A release every year and
> afterr a good summer of work?  Does anybody have a better idea?

Go for it. Good luck on that. Let us know how it goes.

manoj
-- 
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Re: I like the new Release

[Hex Star]

Lol...if you're going to impersonate someone...sign up for a free php host and use Hee-Haw PHP mailer...it spoofs the email address and IP...;-) XDOn 3/20/06, 
Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 20 Mar 2006, Greg Conner outgrape:>> It make be fake but is it a bad idea?  A release every year and> afterr a good summer of work?  Does anybody have a better idea?Go for it. Good luck on that. Let us know how it goes.
manoj--VMS must die!Manoj Srivastava   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C--To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: So we got caught, so what? But we did the right thing.

[Manoj Srivastava]

On 20 Mar 2006, Greg Conner told this:

>> It must be SCO.  They have cleverly disguised themselves as BYU
>> students.  :-)
>>
>> -Roberto
>
> So we got caught trying to br BYU students.  You guys win that
> battle.

Not much of a battle. Y'all were pretty pathetic  at
  forgery. But thanks for the laughs.

manoj
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Bug#358080: ITP: pygaim -- python plugin support for gaim

[Michael Spang]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Michael Spang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: pygaim
  Version : 1.5.0
* URL : http://pygaim.sf.net
* License : GPL
  Description : python bindings and plugin loader for gaim

PyGaim allows the Gaim Instance Messaging client to be extended
with the Python programming language. Python bindings for all 
of the functions in Gaim's plugin API are provided.


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Re: DPL Debate prepared questions list [Debian Policy Sucks]

[Christian Perrier]

(dropping -curiosathe raised issue is a real issue)

> > which are known to work with Debian Stable?
> 
> 5) etch beta 2 was released last week with support for your hardware


I'm not sure that many people are seriously considering an etch beta
to install as a client's firewall solution.

The guarantee bringed by the work on stable is still recognized as one
of Debian's most strong arguments. So are the (sometimes
overestimated?) good work on security updates for stablethis is
easy to sell to clients.

Despite the excellent work on testing security (hint hint), I'm not
sure that recommending testing would be something I would do if I were
a Debian consultant.

PS: I hope that everyone has noticed the nice formulation of Joey. He
said "etch beta 2" and not "etch installer beta 2" and I know he did
this on purpose..:-)




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Re: shared libraries dependecy problem.

[Peter Samuelson]

[Grzegorz Bizon]
> Linda complains that:
> W: tleenx2; A binary links against a library that is not depended on.
> (By the way - shoudn't it be error rather than warning ?)

No, because it's sometimes hard to fix and often harmless.  We don't
like it but "error" is too strong.

> I have checked binary with objdump and ldd and i got ... simillar but
> not the same results.

As others have already explained, ldd resolves recursive dependencies,
so it will usually give more output than 'objdump -p $f | grep NEEDED'.

The point is that you probably don't need to link to, e.g., -lX11,
unless you directly use functions like XOpenDisplay or XBeep.
Typically if you are using GTK, you won't be using any of those
low-level functions.


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Re: Bug#358003: ITP: ttf-dzongkha -- TrueType fonts for Dzongkha language

[Christian Perrier]

Quoting Drew Parsons ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> > Package: wnpp
> > Severity: wishlist
> > Owner: Christian Perrier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > 
> > 
> >  This package includes fonts that are suitable for the display of the 
> > Dzongkha
> >  language.
> > 
> 
> May I suggest for rare languages like this that you also mention in the
> description where the language comes from? (Bhutan in this case, isn't
> it?)


Well, I have one very little argument against doing so: why do it for
Dzongkha and why not do it for, say, French...:-)

I guess you may see the point: I don't want at all that Debian may
seem too condescendant towards Bhutan and/or Dzongkha native speakers
by feeling it's needed to explain what their language is while we
don't feel that need for other languages.

One may feel that's political overcorrectness, but experience shows
that respecting peoples feelings about their culture or language is
one of the key points for success in i18n.

On the other hand, it is pretty much obvious that most of the Debian
contributors and users don't actually know where Dzongkha is spoken
(yes, this is the national language of Bhutan).




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Re: Bruce Perens hosts party at OSCON Wednesday night

[Paul Hedderly]

On Sat, Aug 06, 2005 at 07:38:47PM +0100, Andrew Suffield wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 04, 2005 at 01:58:15PM -0300, Humberto Massa Guimar?es wrote:
> 
> > And to boot, an e-mail calling for curriculae for a recruiting party
> > is on-topic to a DEVELOPERS list
> 
> No. This is why the debian-jobs list exists.

Andrew is right - there was perhaps a more appropriate list.

Sadly - yet again, the real problem was the approach Adam took.
Instead of a gentle friendly prod towards using the right list, Adam
replied with a public antagonistic slapping.

I suspect Bruce will probably not bother offering invitations to DD's in
the future... Sad really.

Why are we so quick to point fingers and wind each other (and outsiders) up.

Will a new DPL be able to break through this barrier of arrogant
selfish one-up-manship? Will all Debian devs ever be able to encourage and
build each other up instead of bickering over their preferred method and
style of protocol?

I'm not hopeful - human nature is overwhelmingly self-centered and 
self-absorbed.

I'd love to be surprised.

-- 
Paul


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