Re: Bug#349693: ITP: gst-fluendo-mp3 -- MP3 decoder plugin for GStreamer

[Russell Coker]

On Wednesday 25 January 2006 21:53, Florian Weimer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> There is no difference between decoders and encoders.  Both require
> patent licenses.  There are a few references to a statement by some of
> the patent holders (Thomson IIRC, the company representing one of the
> larger MP3 pools) that free[1] decoders can use a royalty-free
> license.  This statement has either never been made by Thomson, or it
> has been withdrawn.  Thomson has no intent to go after purely
> non-commercial activities, though.  So Debian itself should be fine,
> but Debian distributors probably aren't.
>
> [1] "free" as in "beer".  If you use your free-as-in-freedom GPLed
> decoder for commercial activities, you need to obtain a license.
> Thomson made that one pretty clear.

This factor makes it significantly different from the other programs which are 
afflicted with patent claims.  If Thomson has made clear statements about a 
common use case of software based on their patents in Debian then it's quite 
different to a battle between Adobe and Macromedia.

-- 
http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/   My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages
http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/  Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark
http://www.coker.com.au/postal/Postal SMTP/POP benchmark
http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/  My home page


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: when and why did python(-minimal) become essential?

[Peter Samuelson]

[Manoj Srivastava]
> On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 04:35:08 +0100, Josselin Mouette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> said: 
> > Deliberate use of words a non-native English speaker cannot
> > understand won't help your argumentation.
> 
> I beg your pardon. I was expecting a modicum of competence, obviously
> my trust of such was misplaced.

I agree that whining about the hard word is out of place - but so is
pointing this out in such an insulting manner.

(Josselin, you might be gratified to hear that I, a native speaker,
wasn't sure of the meaning of 'jejune' either.  He's right, though,
it's not hard to look it up.)


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: when and why did python(-minimal) become essential?

[Lars Wirzenius]

su, 2006-01-29 kello 04:35 +0100, Josselin Mouette kirjoitti:
> Le samedi 28 janvier 2006 à 21:16 -0600, Manoj Srivastava a écrit :
> > God. Is this supposed to be rational technical discussion, or
> >  an exercise in jejune mud slinging.
> 
> Deliberate use of words a non-native English speaker cannot understand
> won't help your argumentation.

Language war bad. Bad. Bad language war. Bad, bad, bad. Language war:
bad. No language war. No, no, no. No bad language war. Stop language
war. Stop - language - war. Stop. Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. Bad
language war stop. Now. Stop bad language war now.



-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: when and why did python(-minimal) become essential?

[Eduard Bloch]

#include 
* Josselin Mouette [Sun, Jan 29 2006, 04:27:06AM]:
> Le samedi 28 janvier 2006 à 21:21 -0600, Manoj Srivastava a écrit :
> > > This is only a feature for perl maniacs. A language that requires a
> > > specific coding style is better, because it makes possible for
> > > anyone knowing the language to hack easily python code he doesn't
> > > know about.
> > 
> > Perl _maniacs_, eh? Gratuitous insults. Hmm. To descend to
> >  your level, only python morons would find a  style straight jacket
> >  "better".
> 
> Maybe you think that all perl developers are perl maniacs, but this is
> not what I said.

That's your vocabulary that matters and your style of picking up extreme
cases to substantiate a crazy idea. Unfortunately too many people tend
to repeat that "syntax corset makes your code understandable" story
while they confuse different problems in human code understanding.

Eduard.
-- 
Wer wirklich noch einen 4.x-Browser benutzt, dem kann leider nicht mehr
geholfen werden. Die haben soviele Sicherheitsloecher, da koennten wir per
www.linuxtag.org, Exploit und etwas Scriptmagic einen neuen Browser von
Remote installieren.
  // Michael Kleinhenz, lt2k-ml

Re: when and why did python(-minimal) become essential?

[Eduard Bloch]

#include 
* Josselin Mouette [Sun, Jan 29 2006, 04:44:32AM]:
> Le samedi 28 janvier 2006 à 21:13 -0600, Manoj Srivastava a écrit :
> > > Sorry, but there's a whole new generation of Debian developers here
> > > that simply won't develop anything in perl, just because perl looks
> > > too complex and cryptic to us.
> > 
> > I see. I am not sure how I can respond to this without seeming
> >  to be insulting. We are trying to build the best OS out there, and
> >  ifone of the most popular glue languages is too abstruse for people,
> >  perhaps they should, umm, reconsider their qualifications?
> 
> You don't only *seem* to be insulting. Just because people don't want to
> waste their time with an inefficient language, you label them as
> incompetent? Guess what, some people have better to do than learning
> perl or C++. If you're going to refuse contributions from people who
> don't understand perl, I'm not sure you're going to build the best OS
> out there - only the best perl OS.

Broken logics. You do accept every contribution even if you know that
patch does not comply with your quality standards? And a language
(itself) is inefficient because _you_ don't want to learn it?
And you can compare the efficiency without knowing how a _good_
implementation in the other language may look like?

> If a good number of scripts that would be worth including in the base
> system were written in haskell or scheme, I would be the first one to
> support that inclusion. Guess what? Such scripts don't exist, because
> these languages are currently not suitable for these tasks.

Heh, now your change your line of argumentation just to make it look
less foolish. Congratulations.

Eduard.
-- 
 Hey! [EMAIL PROTECTED] ist richtig schlimm
 Da kriegt man, wenn man "Hallo" sagt, als Antwort schon rtfm!


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: when and why did python(-minimal) become essential?

[Eduard Bloch]

#include 
* Mike Hommey [Thu, Jan 26 2006, 09:46:26PM]:
> On Thu, Jan 26, 2006 at 04:12:35PM +0100, Josselin Mouette <[EMAIL 
> PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Le samedi 21 janvier 2006 à 21:52 +0100, Mike Hommey a écrit :
> > > On Sat, Jan 21, 2006 at 02:21:34PM -0600, Joe Wreschnig <[EMAIL 
> > > PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > Python is the "official" language of Ubuntu. If we want to merge work
> > > > they're doing (Anthony Towns mentioned their work on boot speed, for
> > > > example) it's a good idea to structure our Python like theirs is. This
> > > > (...)
> > > 
> > > Boot speed and python does not really sound a match...
> > 
> > Surprisingly, python is often faster than perl for the same task.
> 
> Boot speed and perl does not really sound a match either.

Nack. Even following the synthetic benchmarks on
http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/, they are quite comparable,
especially when looking at other candidates:
http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp4/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=perl&lang2=ruby
Especially the startup time is much higher with Python so I wonder why
people want to use it for many small maintainer scripts.

The only improvement comes with use of Python Psycho which is IIRC still
experimental and non-portable.

Eduard.
-- 
Everything is illusion. Constructs of language, light, metaphor; nothing
is real.  -- Babylon 5, Season 4


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Bug#350391: ITP: glest -- Free 3D fantasy real-time-strategy game

[Moritz Muehlenhoff]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Moritz Muehlenhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: glest
  Version : 2.0pre
  Upstream Author : Glest Team
* URL : http://www.glest.org
* License : GPL for the code, permissive free license for the game data
  Description : Free 3D fantasy real-time-strategy game

Glest is a free fantasy 3D real time strategy game with impressive graphics.
See http://www.josezanni.com/glest/descargas/demoglest_v1.2.mpg for a demo 
video.

Glest will be packaged/maintained by the Debian Games Team. Anyone interested
in helping/joining see http://wiki.debian.org/Games/Development for details.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: testing/unstable
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable')
Architecture: i386 (i686)
Shell:  /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash
Kernel: Linux 2.6.15-1-686
Locale: LANG=C, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (charmap=ISO-8859-15)


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

how to link 2 bug reports ?

[Marc Chantreux]

Hi all,

i've done the bug report #350119 last week (providing a patch) and just
seen that this patch fixes #342008. Is it a way to 'link' them in the
BTS?  (as i'm not a DD)

regards
mc


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: when and why did python(-minimal) become essential?

[Josselin Mouette]

Le dimanche 29 janvier 2006 à 03:14 -0600, Peter Samuelson a écrit :
> (Josselin, you might be gratified to hear that I, a native speaker,
> wasn't sure of the meaning of 'jejune' either.  He's right, though,
> it's not hard to look it up.)

Of course it's not hard to look up a word in the dictionary. But it
raises arbitrarily the barrier for comprehension.

After all, I could answer in French. It's not that hard to translate. 

When people make the effort to speak your native language, you can make
an effort as well to make yourself easily understandable.
-- 
 .''`.   Josselin Mouette/\./\
: :' :   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
`. `'[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  `-  Debian GNU/Linux -- The power of freedom


signature.asc
Description: Ceci est une partie de message	numériquement signée

Re: how to link 2 bug reports ?

[Martin Zobel-Helas]

Hi Marc,

On Sunday, 29 Jan 2006, you wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> i've done the bug report #350119 last week (providing a patch) and just
> seen that this patch fixes #342008. Is it a way to 'link' them in the
> BTS?  (as i'm not a DD)

mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" and sent in the body:

merge 350119 342008
thanks



Greetings
Martin

PS: http://www.debian.org/Bugs/server-control


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: how to link 2 bug reports ?

[Frans Pop]

On Sunday 29 January 2006 14:38, Marc Chantreux wrote:
> i've done the bug report #350119 last week (providing a patch) and just
> seen that this patch fixes #342008. Is it a way to 'link' them in the
> BTS?  (as i'm not a DD)

http://www.debian.org/Bugs/server-control
See "merge" command and read the comments below it carefully.

You don't need to be a DD to use it.

Cheers,
FJP


pgpTPAeuUTCV9.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: when and why did python(-minimal) become essential?

[Josselin Mouette]

Le dimanche 29 janvier 2006 à 11:07 +0100, Eduard Bloch a écrit :
> > You don't only *seem* to be insulting. Just because people don't want to
> > waste their time with an inefficient language, you label them as
> > incompetent? Guess what, some people have better to do than learning
> > perl or C++. If you're going to refuse contributions from people who
> > don't understand perl, I'm not sure you're going to build the best OS
> > out there - only the best perl OS.
> 
> Broken logics. You do accept every contribution even if you know that
> patch does not comply with your quality standards? 

I can see if the patch complies with my quality standards by looking at
the patch. Not by asking the contributor if he knows an unrelated
programming language.

> And a language
> (itself) is inefficient because _you_ don't want to learn it?

It is inefficient *for me*.

From the very beginning, you've been insulting the wrong person. After
all, I *do* know perl, I even contributed some perl code in Debian. I
know perl enough to know that:
  * I will never be able to write a perl script in a time comparable
to that of writing a similar python script.
  * I won't be able to understand a random perl script written with
a programming style I'm not accustomed to in a reasonable amount
of time.
This is enough for making this language inefficient for me. It's much
more efficient to ask for help from people more knowledgeable with this
language and to spend my time with things I can enjoy hacking.

> And you can compare the efficiency without knowing how a _good_
> implementation in the other language may look like?

When the implementation already exists, the measurement for efficiency
differs. You have to compare the time needed to hack the existing
implementation to the time needed to rewrite it from scratch.

> > If a good number of scripts that would be worth including in the base
> > system were written in haskell or scheme, I would be the first one to
> > support that inclusion. Guess what? Such scripts don't exist, because
> > these languages are currently not suitable for these tasks.
> 
> Heh, now your change your line of argumentation just to make it look
> less foolish. Congratulations.

Or maybe it's just there's nothing to argue about for haskell and
scheme. Show me an administration script written in haskell or scheme,
and we can include the language in the discussion.
-- 
 .''`.   Josselin Mouette/\./\
: :' :   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
`. `'[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  `-  Debian GNU/Linux -- The power of freedom


signature.asc
Description: Ceci est une partie de message	numériquement signée

Re: when and why did python(-minimal) become essential?

[Josselin Mouette]

Le samedi 28 janvier 2006 à 20:42 -0800, Russ Allbery a écrit :
> Which scripts written in Python do you feel should be included in the base
> system and cannot be currently because Python isn't included?  Be
> specific.
> 
> A killer application that everyone wants to have in base will be the way
> that Python would enter base; without that, I think this discussion is
> largely a waste of time and an invitation to back into argumentative
> corners that can only result in hurt feelings.

There have already been - admittedly sporadic - proposals to rewrite
some key parts of the system, like the init scripts or adduser, in
python. However, if the proponent knows from the beginning the
implementation wouldn't be accepted because of the language it is
written in, you can't expect him to start working on it.

Putting python in the set of required packages today would simply be a
waste of resources. But accepting the idea of putting it in *if* a good
enough application shows up is the necessary step to have the
applications show up. Some people here are refusing it by principle.
-- 
 .''`.   Josselin Mouette/\./\
: :' :   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
`. `'[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  `-  Debian GNU/Linux -- The power of freedom


signature.asc
Description: Ceci est une partie de message	numériquement signée

Re: how to link 2 bug reports ?

[Marc Chantreux]

thanks everyone for your answers.

regards,
mc


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Bug#350397: ITP: dblatex -- Produces DVI, PostScript, PDF documents from DocBook sources

[Andreas Hoenen]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Andreas Hoenen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


* Package name: dblatex
  Version : 0.1.8
  Upstream Author : Benoit Guillon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://dblatex.sourceforge.net/
* License : GPL
  Description : Produces DVI, PostScript, PDF documents from DocBook sources

DocBook to LaTeX Publishing that transforms your SGML/XML DocBook documents to
DVI, PostScript or PDF by translating them in pure LaTeX as a first process.
MathML 2.0 markups are supported, too. It is a clone of DB2LaTeX.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: testing/unstable
  APT prefers testing
  APT policy: (500, 'testing'), (500, 'stable')
Architecture: i386 (i686)
Shell:  /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash
Kernel: Linux 2.6.8-2-686
Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=C (charmap=ANSI_X3.4-1968)


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: when and why did python(-minimal) become essential?

[Manoj Srivastava]

On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 14:58:05 +0100, Josselin Mouette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: 

> Le samedi 28 janvier 2006 à 20:42 -0800, Russ Allbery a écrit :
>> Which scripts written in Python do you feel should be included in
>> the base system and cannot be currently because Python isn't
>> included?  Be specific.
>> 
>> A killer application that everyone wants to have in base will be
>> the way that Python would enter base; without that, I think this
>> discussion is largely a waste of time and an invitation to back
>> into argumentative corners that can only result in hurt feelings.

> There have already been - admittedly sporadic - proposals to rewrite
> some key parts of the system, like the init scripts or adduser, in
> python. However, if the proponent knows from the beginning the
> implementation wouldn't be accepted because of the language it is
> written in, you can't expect him to start working on it.

Unless there is a technical rationale for writing things in a
 new language (no, I'm too lazy to learn the old one is not good
 enough), this is not a bad thing.

> Putting python in the set of required packages today would simply be
> a waste of resources. But accepting the idea of putting it in *if* a
> good enough application shows up is the necessary step to have the
> applications show up. Some people here are refusing it by principle.

The probability of such a package coming up which would make
 the cost benefit analysis worth it is pretty low. In my opinion, of
 course.

manoj
-- 
"Everyone's head is a cheap movie show." Jeff G. Bone
Manoj Srivastava   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: when and why did python(-minimal) become essential?

[Manoj Srivastava]

On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 14:38:32 +0100, Josselin Mouette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: 

> Of course it's not hard to look up a word in the dictionary. But it
> raises arbitrarily the barrier for comprehension.

It is hard to know a priori how much to lower ones language
 to -- should one stick to "Look, Jane, look. See Spot. See Spot run."?

> After all, I could answer in French. It's not that hard to
> translate.

While this obviously has not made an impression on you, the
 official language of the lists is English.

> When people make the effort to speak your native language, you can
> make an effort as well to make yourself easily understandable.

Whose native tongue, Kemo Sabe? मेरा नाम “मनोज श्रिवास्तव” है|


manoj
 amused to think th language he learned fourth is thought to be his
 native tongue
-- 
There's no use in having a dog and doing your own barking.
Manoj Srivastava   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C

Re: when and why did python(-minimal) become essential?

[Josselin Mouette]

Le dimanche 29 janvier 2006 à 09:25 -0600, Manoj Srivastava a écrit :
> > There have already been - admittedly sporadic - proposals to rewrite
> > some key parts of the system, like the init scripts or adduser, in
> > python. However, if the proponent knows from the beginning the
> > implementation wouldn't be accepted because of the language it is
> > written in, you can't expect him to start working on it.
> 
> Unless there is a technical rationale for writing things in a
>  new language (no, I'm too lazy to learn the old one is not good
>  enough), this is not a bad thing.

Oh, great. Preventing evolutions from happening, just because some
people judge their language to be able to replace anything another
language can do, this must be a good thing. We'd better let those
skilled people make all evolutions happen, of course they have all the
time to rewrite all contributions in their TRUE and ONLY language.
-- 
 .''`.   Josselin Mouette/\./\
: :' :   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
`. `'[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  `-  Debian GNU/Linux -- The power of freedom


signature.asc
Description: Ceci est une partie de message	numériquement signée

Re: when and why did python(-minimal) become essential?

[Stephen Gran]

This one time, at band camp, Josselin Mouette said:
> Oh, great. Preventing evolutions from happening, just because some
> people judge their language to be able to replace anything another
> language can do, this must be a good thing. We'd better let those
> skilled people make all evolutions happen, of course they have all the
> time to rewrite all contributions in their TRUE and ONLY language.

It seems to me you're entirely missing the point and being needlessly
argumentative.  Essential needs to be kept small, so we want to minimize
the number of things in it.  There is already a status quo - we have
perl, and several scripts written in perl that are fairly important.  

If you want python added, you'll need to come up with a fairly
convincing argument for why Essential should get bigger.  If you want to
replace perl, you'll need to come up with a fairly convincing argument
for why people should do all the work of rewriting the existing code.

I've got nothing against python (except the usual revulsion for a
language where whitespace is significant), but you're really going to
need to do better than whining about being oppressed to get python into
Essential.

Now, do you actually have arguments for why Essential should get bigger
except that you don't happen to like perl?
-- 
 -
|   ,''`.Stephen Gran |
|  : :' :[EMAIL PROTECTED] |
|  `. `'Debian user, admin, and developer |
|`- http://www.debian.org |
 -


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: when and why did python(-minimal) become essential?

[Manoj Srivastava]

On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 16:54:17 +0100, Josselin Mouette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: 

> Le dimanche 29 janvier 2006 à 09:25 -0600, Manoj Srivastava a écrit
> :
>> > There have already been - admittedly sporadic - proposals to
>> > rewrite some key parts of the system, like the init scripts or
>> > adduser, in python. However, if the proponent knows from the
>> > beginning the implementation wouldn't be accepted because of the
>> > language it is written in, you can't expect him to start working
>> > on it.
>> 
>> Unless there is a technical rationale for writing things in a new
>> language (no, I'm too lazy to learn the old one is not good
>> enough), this is not a bad thing.

> Oh, great. Preventing evolutions from happening, just because some
> people judge their language to be able to replace anything another
> language can do, this must be a good thing.

If asking for a technical rationale is way too much for you, I
 am glad you are not in charge. Gratuitous, whimsical, random changes
 in critical infrastructure are not laudable, and not something to
 emulate.

> We'd better let those skilled people make all evolutions happen, of
> course they have all the time to rewrite all contributions in their
> TRUE and ONLY language.

I can see your logic skillz are on par with your language
 skillz. Russ said it best already: once a language as heen accepted,
 there is a measure of cost of change. It is not a my language is
 bigger than your language -- it is a matter of doing a cost benefit
 analysis.

And yes, I do believe if someone can't handle the technical
 tasks of Debian package management and systems integration (which
 includes sticking to the current policy, or providing technical
 rationale for why policy must be modified), they should indeed leave
 package management to those who can. Not everyone needs to be a DD.

manoj

-- 
Unix: Some say the learning curve is steep, but you only have to climb
it once. Karl Lehenbauer
Manoj Srivastava   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Bug#350432: ITP: cubictemp -- small, elegant, Python-specific templating system

[Mohammed Adnène Trojette]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: "Mohammed Adnene Trojette" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


* Package name: cubictemp
  Version : 0.4
  Upstream Author : Nullcube Pty Ltd
* URL : http://www.nullcube.com/software/cubictemp.html
* License : BSD-like
  Description : small, elegant, Python-specific HTML templating system

 Cubictemp integrates tightly with Python, allowing you to pass
 arbitrary Python objects into an HTML template, walk sequences and
 iterators, and evaluate expressions.
 .
 Cubictemp includes default protection against common classes of
 HTML and Javascript Cross-Site Scripting vulnerabilities.

Some packages needing review are available at 
http://adn.diwi.org/debian/cubictemp

-- System Information:
Debian Release: testing/unstable
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable')
Architecture: i386 (i686)
Shell:  /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash
Kernel: Linux 2.6.14
Locale: LANG=fr_FR.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=fr_FR.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Bug#350397: ITP: dblatex -- Produces DVI, PostScript, PDF documents from DocBook sources

[Frank Küster]

Andreas Hoenen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Package: wnpp
> Severity: wishlist
> Owner: Andreas Hoenen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
> * Package name: dblatex
>   Version : 0.1.8
>   Upstream Author : Benoit Guillon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> * URL : http://dblatex.sourceforge.net/
> * License : GPL
>   Description : Produces DVI, PostScript, PDF documents from DocBook 
> sources
>
> DocBook to LaTeX Publishing that transforms your SGML/XML DocBook documents to
> DVI, PostScript or PDF by translating them in pure LaTeX as a first process.
> MathML 2.0 markups are supported, too. It is a clone of DB2LaTeX.

... which is already in Debian, and apparently hardly maintained.  If
this upstream branch is in fact better suited, and you will have enough
energy to maintain it properly, I think you should try to replace
db2latex (and coordinate with its current maintainers).  Helping
to bring db2latex into a better shape isn't an option for you?

Regards, Frank

-- 
Frank Küster
Single Molecule Spectroscopy, Protein Folding @ Inst. f. Biochemie, Univ. Zürich
Debian Developer (teTeX)

Re: Bug#350397: ITP: dblatex -- Produces DVI, PostScript, PDF documents from DocBook sources

[Peter Samuelson]

[Andreas Hoenen]
> * Package name: dblatex

> DocBook to LaTeX Publishing that transforms your SGML/XML DocBook
> documents to DVI, PostScript or PDF by translating them in pure LaTeX
> as a first process.  MathML 2.0 markups are supported, too. It is a
> clone of DB2LaTeX.

Please explain in your package description why somebody might wish to
install this instead of db2latex-xsl.  Or, if this is just a wrapper
script around db2latex-xsl, please just ask to have it added to that
package.


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: when and why did python(-minimal) become essential?

[Russ Allbery]

Josselin Mouette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> There have already been - admittedly sporadic - proposals to rewrite
> some key parts of the system, like the init scripts or adduser, in
> python. However, if the proponent knows from the beginning the
> implementation wouldn't be accepted because of the language it is
> written in, you can't expect him to start working on it.

Well, if those people don't mind their policies, now there's Ubuntu with
python in essential.  That work, if good, won't go to waste even if Debian
doesn't want it.  There's a testing ground in Ubuntu for rewriting some
core component in Python and making it much better, so much better that we
all gasp in appreciation and want it in Debian too.

Not all rewrites are improvements, so I don't get particularly excited
about people's plans to rewrite something and make it so much better.  Few
rewrites that are started actually finish.  The few that are often
introduce lots of new bugs in exchange for the old, known, worked-around
bugs.

-- 
Russ Allbery ([EMAIL PROTECTED])   


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: when and why did python(-minimal) become essential?

[Josselin Mouette]

Le dimanche 29 janvier 2006 à 10:42 -0600, Manoj Srivastava a écrit :
> I can see your logic skillz are on par with your language
>  skillz. Russ said it best already: once a language as heen accepted,
>  there is a measure of cost of change. It is not a my language is
>  bigger than your language -- it is a matter of doing a cost benefit
>  analysis.
> 
> And yes, I do believe if someone can't handle the technical
>  tasks of Debian package management and systems integration (which
>  includes sticking to the current policy, or providing technical
>  rationale for why policy must be modified), they should indeed leave
>  package management to those who can. Not everyone needs to be a DD.

This is enough.

I don't expect to get any apologies on this list, but I won't discuss
anymore with people whose only arguments are insults. I'm not here to
deal with your ego issues.
-- 
 .''`.   Josselin Mouette/\./\
: :' :   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
`. `'[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  `-  Debian GNU/Linux -- The power of freedom


signature.asc
Description: Ceci est une partie de message	numériquement signée

agree

[Cord Beermann]

Greetings from the Debian-Listmasters.

We are still looking for a mailaddress which is forwarded to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

That Mailadress seems to respond to all postings to our Mailinglist
debian-devel with a challenge-response reply.

This mail is a test mailing, to check if this address 
is the one we are looking for.

We have to do this, because all other methods to identify that address 
failed.  We also use this special-bounce-address, to make sure that we 
aren't whitelisted.

If you get an unsubscription message afterwards, we most likely have 
identify you as the one.

If no unsubscription occurs you can safely ignore this message. We hope this
is the last time we have to do this. We are aware of the fact that we bother
~2500 subscribers to identify one fuckwit.

Yours,
Debian Listmaster ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
-- 
http://lists.debian.org

Bug#350464: ITP: picard -- album-based MusicBrainz tagger

[Decklin Foster]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Decklin Foster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: picard
  Version : 0.6.0
  Upstream Author : Robert Kaye <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/PicardTagger
* License : GPL/RPSL/RCSL triple-license
  Description : album-based MusicBrainz tagger

 Picard is the next generation, cross-platform MusicBrainz tagger. This
 version of the tagging application is album oriented, as opposed to
 track oriented as the old tagger was.
 .
 By grouping music files into clusters, and importing album information
 from the MusicBrainz web site, all songs on a given album may be
 re-tagged and renamed at once. Any files which do not match the time or
 acoustic fingerprints for their corresponding tracks in the MusicBrainz
 database will be marked as possible errors, and may also be tagged
 manually.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: testing/unstable
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable'), (1, 'experimental')
Architecture: i386 (i686)
Shell:  /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash
Kernel: Linux 2.6.15.1
Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Reset of limits with su / new session

[Loïc Minier]

Hi,

On Tue, Jan 17, 2006, Reuti wrote:
> while wondering about missing ulimits for an interactive session  
> scheduled by SGE (SUN GridEngine) to a node in a cluster running on  
> Debian (which is working fine with other Linux distributions), I also  
> found, that each user can increase his limits again by a simple su to  
> his own account:

 Please file a bug against the relevant package and open a discussion
 with the maintainer.  If this causes problem in a mixed Linux
 environment, it's worth reporting it.  Beside, I couldn't find any
 documentation of the reason for that patch being only in Debian nor why
 it was included in the first place (I checked the Debian changelog, and
 the package itself, all I saw was "Allow explicit limits for root.
 Also, remove limits on su.").

   Cheers,

-- 
Loïc Minier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Current Earth status:   NOT DESTROYED


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Bug#350466: ITP: lastfmsubmitd -- submission daemon for the Last.fm social music network

[Decklin Foster]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Decklin Foster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: lastfmsubmitd
  Version : 0.16
  Upstream Author : Decklin Foster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : * http://www.red-bean.com/~decklin/software/lastfmsubmitd/
* License : MIT/X
  Description : submission daemon for the Last.fm social music network

 lastfmsubmitd collects information from audio player plugins about what
 songs a user has listened to, and handles submitting them to Last.fm or
 caching them if the submission server is unavailable.
 .
 One example client, for MPD, is included.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: testing/unstable
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable'), (1, 'experimental')
Architecture: i386 (i686)
Shell:  /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash
Kernel: Linux 2.6.15.1
Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Bug#350397: ITP: dblatex -- Produces DVI, PostScript, PDF documents from DocBook sources

[Andreas Hoenen]

From: Frank Küster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Bug#350397: ITP: dblatex -- Produces DVI, PostScript, PDF 
documents from DocBook sources
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 19:26:27 +0100

> Andreas Hoenen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Package: wnpp
> > Severity: wishlist
> > Owner: Andreas Hoenen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >
> > * Package name: dblatex
> >   Version : 0.1.8
> >   Upstream Author : Benoit Guillon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > * URL : http://dblatex.sourceforge.net/
> > * License : GPL
> >   Description : Produces DVI, PostScript, PDF documents from DocBook 
> > sources
> >
> > DocBook to LaTeX Publishing that transforms your SGML/XML DocBook documents 
> > to
> > DVI, PostScript or PDF by translating them in pure LaTeX as a first process.
> > MathML 2.0 markups are supported, too. It is a clone of DB2LaTeX.
> 
> ... which is already in Debian, and apparently hardly maintained.  If
> this upstream branch is in fact better suited, and you will have enough
> energy to maintain it properly, I think you should try to replace
> db2latex (and coordinate with its current maintainers).  Helping
> to bring db2latex into a better shape isn't an option for you?
> 
> Regards, Frank
> 
> -- 
> Frank Küster
> Single Molecule Spectroscopy, Protein Folding @ Inst. f. Biochemie, Univ. 
> Zürich
> Debian Developer (teTeX)
> 

Hello Frank,

my reason for prefering dblatex over DB2LaTeX is simple.  According to
my experience DB2LaTeX is effectively upstream dead, as there has not
been any release since beginning of 2004, there has not been any mail on
the developers mailing list since over half a year, and there has not
been any answer to a simple patch I submitted half a year ago.  Sorry
for this project, but without active upstream development it does not
seem very useful to me.

In comparison to that the dblatex development is very vivid, when one
reports a bug, in most cases it will be fixed within a few days.  The
upstream author generally is very helpful and would be glad to get the
project packaged in Debian.

I was able to convince the guys on the Debian SGML mailing list that
dblatex should be packaged
(http://lists.debian.org/debian-sgml/2005/10/msg00014.html), they were
asking for a voluntary maintainer in response.  Unfortunately noone
there did react to my offer to package dblatex and to my question if
someone would be interested in sponsorship; traffic on this mailing list
fell silent since December...

Thus I want to send an RFS to the Debian mentor mailing list in a few
days when I have finally tested my packaging efforts.

I understand the hesitation in including just another DocBook-pdf tool,
but to me like to some other people at the moment it just seems the most
usable and promising solution.

Regards, Andreas Hoenen

Bug#350470: ITP: xfce4-smartbookmark-plugin -- search the web via the Xfce4 panel

[Emanuele Rocca]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Debian Xfce Maintainers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: xfce4-smartbookmark-plugin
  Version : 0.2
  Upstream Author : Emanuele Rocca <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://people.debian.org/~ema/
* License : GPL
  Description : search the web via the Xfce4 panel

 This plugin adds a text field to the Xfce panel, allowing the user to search
 the web. The URL and the text field size are configurable options.
 .
 Typical use cases are: Google, Wikipedia, the Debian Bug Tracking System
 .
 xfce4-smartbookmark-plugin is based on the smart bookmark concept:
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_Bookmark

ciao,
ema


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

svn problem: Can you help me?

[Lionel Elie Mamane]

Hi,

I've got a problem with subversion, I wonder if you could help me:

I tried:

[EMAIL PROTECTED] svn mv 'svn+ssh://[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]/svn/pkg-mailman/tags/2.1.5-10/' svn+ssh://[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]/svn/pkg-mailman/tags/2.1.5-10/debian
svn: Cannot move URL 'svn+ssh://[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]/svn/pkg-mailman/tags/2.1.5-10' into itself

OK, fair enough. So I did:

[EMAIL PROTECTED] svn mv 'svn+ssh://[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]/svn/pkg-mailman/tags/2.1.5-10/' svn+ssh://[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]/svn/pkg-mailman/tags/2.1.5-10.tmp
Committed revision 282.

and then

[EMAIL PROTECTED] svn mv 'svn+ssh://[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]/svn/pkg-mailman/tags/2.1.5-10.tmp' svn+ssh://[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]/svn/pkg-mailman/tags/2.1.5-10/debian
svn: Out of date: '/tags/2.1.5-10' in transaction '282-1'
svn: Your commit message was left in a temporary file:
svn:'svn-commit.tmp'

What does that mean and how do I get out of this dead-end? Thanks in
advance.

-- 
Lionel


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: svn problem: Can you help me?

[Thomas Weber]

Hi Lionel, 

Am Sonntag, den 29.01.2006, 22:11 +0100 schrieb Lionel Elie Mamane:
> What does that mean and how do I get out of this dead-end? Thanks in
> advance.

Does this one help?
http://svn.haxx.se/users/archive-2003-07/0133.shtml

Thomas


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: svn problem: Can you help me?

[Lionel Elie Mamane]

On Sun, Jan 29, 2006 at 11:44:32PM +0100, Thomas Weber wrote:

> Am Sonntag, den 29.01.2006, 22:11 +0100 schrieb Lionel Elie Mamane:

>> What does that mean and how do I get out of this dead-end? Thanks
>> in advance.

> Does this one help?
> http://svn.haxx.se/users/archive-2003-07/0133.shtml

Yes, thanks. I hadn't found this one when googling.

What a cryptic error message for a "destination directory doesn't
exist" error condition.

-- 
Lionel


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: when and why did python(-minimal) become essential?

[Bill Allombert]

On Sun, Jan 29, 2006 at 02:51:44PM +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Or maybe it's just there's nothing to argue about for haskell and
> scheme. Show me an administration script written in haskell or scheme,
> and we can include the language in the discussion.

Actually I would advocate to rewrite _all_ the maintainers scripts in
haskell. There are absolutly critical to the correction operation of
Debian systems and we cannot rely on so brittle a language than POSIX sh.

Actually, since haskell can be compiled to native code, we don't even need
to move any haskell packages to base.

Look how cleanly the following postrm script implement policy 6.4:

module Main where
import System
import IO
import Directory

main = getArgs >>= postrm

postrm ["remove"]= exitWith ExitSuccess
postrm ["purge"] = try (removeFile 
"/etc/foobar.conf")
postrm ["upgrade", new_version ] = exitWith ExitSuccess
postrm ["failed-upgrade", old_version ]  = exitWith ExitSuccess
postrm ["abort-install"] = exitWith ExitSuccess
postrm ["abort-install", old_version]= exitWith ExitSuccess
postrm ["abort-upgrade", old_version]= exitWith ExitSuccess
postrm ["disappear", overwriter, overwriter_version] = exitWith ExitSuccess

postrm bad_command_line = error ("Maintainer script called with unknown 
arguments"
 ++ (foldl (\x -> \y ->x++" "++y) "" 
bad_command_line))

The only (very minor) drawback is that above haskell scripts when
compiled is about 7MB in size, but the huge gain in reliability
and maintainability that this would give to Debian far outweight the
extra disk usage.

Cheers,
-- 
Bill. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Imagine a large red swirl here.

PS: May I be allowed to remember that perl-base was introduced mainly for the
purpose of replacing awk scripts and other awk+sed+sh mix ?


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: svn problem: Can you help me?

[Jay Berkenbilt]

Lionel Elie Mamane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> What a cryptic error message for a "destination directory doesn't
> exist" error condition.

There are a number of similar situations (a directory not existing)
I've seen where subversion gives a misleading error message.  For
example, trying to svn switch to a non-existent directory results in
"Cannot replace a directory from within" -- hardly illuminating.
There are probably a few places where certain conditions manifest
themselves in ways that result in these odd messages.  Whenever I get
a cryptic message from subversion, the first thing I do is check for
typos, and the second thing I do is check to make sure all
prerequisites for whatever I'm trying to do have been satisfied.  That
might have caused you to notice the missing mkdir between your two svn
mv commands.  Just my $0.02.

-- 
Jay Berkenbilt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: when and why did python(-minimal) become essential?

[Manoj Srivastava]

On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 19:55:29 +0100, Josselin Mouette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: 

> Le dimanche 29 janvier 2006 à 10:42 -0600, Manoj Srivastava a écrit
> :
>> I can see your logic skillz are on par with your language
>> skillz. Russ said it best already: once a language as heen
>> accepted, there is a measure of cost of change. It is not a my
>> language is bigger than your language -- it is a matter of doing a
>> cost benefit analysis.
>> 
>> And yes, I do believe if someone can't handle the technical tasks
>> of Debian package management and systems integration (which
>> includes sticking to the current policy, or providing technical
>> rationale for why policy must be modified), they should indeed
>> leave package management to those who can. Not everyone needs to be
>> a DD.

> This is enough.

So you want people who can not handle the technical tasks of
 Debian package management and systems integration  to continue to
 delude themselves and short change the users by sticking to their
 guns?

> I don't expect to get any apologies on this list, but I won't
> discuss anymore with people whose only arguments are insults.

My arguments weren't _wholly_ insults.

> I'm not here to deal with your ego issues.

Seems to me I am not the one with a bruised ego here.

manoj

-- 
I'm not sure whether that's actually useful... Larry Wall in
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Manoj Srivastava   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: when and why did python(-minimal) become essential?

[Matthew Palmer]

On Sun, Jan 29, 2006 at 02:58:05PM +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> There have already been - admittedly sporadic - proposals to rewrite
> some key parts of the system, like the init scripts or adduser, in
> python. However, if the proponent knows from the beginning the
> implementation wouldn't be accepted because of the language it is
> written in, you can't expect him to start working on it.

What's this "wouldn't be accepted" nonsense?  Are you seriously suggesting
that, if someone rewrote adduser in Python, that it would be rejected by the
ftpmasters *because* it was written in Python?

> Putting python in the set of required packages today would simply be a
> waste of resources. But accepting the idea of putting it in *if* a good
> enough application shows up is the necessary step to have the
> applications show up. Some people here are refusing it by principle.

They're refusing it on the principle of "the cost/benefit ratio sucks".  Not
a bad principle, as things go.  Spend some time enhancing the benefit side
of the equation, and less time screaming that people are meanies, and your
language-of-choice-for-today might just have a hope of making it in.

- Matt
Bannerwaver for "Ruby in Essential" because it'd be cool.


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: when and why did python(-minimal) become essential?

[Matthew Palmer]

On Sun, Jan 29, 2006 at 04:17:13AM +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Le samedi 28 janvier 2006 à 17:01 -0600, Peter Samuelson a écrit :
> > [Josselin Mouette]
> > > Because python and ruby have similar features
> > 
> > Same with perl and python.
> 
> Great. I guess you're going to second the upcoming GR that will state
> that Pi=3 ?

Hey, you were the one who started the mud-slinging.  Ruby and Python are
miles apart as languages (and thank $DEITY for that).

- Matt

Re: when and why did python(-minimal) become essential?

[Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias]

Bill Allombert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> The only (very minor) drawback is that above haskell scripts when
> compiled is about 7MB in size, but the huge gain in reliability

I think you're somewhat joking about using Haskell, but your script
weights:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/tmp$ ls -lh a.out
-rwxr-xr-x 1 egallego egallego 182K 2006-01-30 00:19 a.out

This is including all the Haskell runtime. Using a shared runtime
would be the optimal solution, as the compiled module is about 9Kb
(without stripping):

-rw-r--r-- 1 egallego egallego 9652 2006-01-30 00:19 Main.o

and stripped:

-rw-r--r-- 1 egallego egallego 3584 2006-01-30 00:25 Main.o

However, AFAIK GHC doesn't support sharing the runtime.

Regards,

Emilio


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Bug#350498: ITP: libmail-dice-perl -- a Perl library to access email messages

[Gonéri Le Bouder]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: "Gonéri Le Bouder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


* Package name: libmail-dice-perl
  Version : 0.2
  Upstream Author : Duncan Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
* URL : http://www.example.org/
* License : BSD
  Description : a Perl library to access email messages

Dicemail is a Perl library for working with email messages. The idea of
Dicemail is to provide a set of utilities for writing small, simple mail
tools. Dicemail provides the following abilties:
  Handling of account specifications
  Abstracts operations on different mail server types (currently only IMAP
though)
  Abstracts messages
  Command line switch processing
  Supports operations on mail defined by Perl code


-- System Information:
Debian Release: testing/unstable
  APT prefers testing
  APT policy: (500, 'testing')
Architecture: sparc (sparc64)
Shell:  /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash
Kernel: Linux 2.6.14-2-sparc64-smp
Locale: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] (charmap=ANSI_X3.4-1968) (ignored: 
LC_ALL set to C)

Re: svn problem: Can you help me?

[Jay Berkenbilt]

Lionel Elie Mamane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> What a cryptic error message for a "destination directory doesn't
> exist" error condition.

There are a number of similar situations (a directory not existing)
I've seen where subversion gives a misleading error message.  For
example, trying to svn switch to a non-existent directory results in
"Cannot replace a directory from within" -- hardly illuminating.
There are probably a few places where certain conditions manifest
themselves in ways that result in these odd messages.  Whenever I get
a cryptic message from subversion, the first thing I do is check for
typos, and the second thing I do is check to make sure all
prerequisites for whatever I'm trying to do have been satisfied.  That
might have caused you to notice the missing mkdir between your two svn
mv commands.  Just my $0.02.

-- 
Jay Berkenbilt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: when and why did python(-minimal) become essential?

[Miles Bader]

Eduard Bloch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> Boot speed and perl does not really sound a match either.
>
> Nack. Even following the synthetic benchmarks on
> http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/, they are quite comparable,
> especially when looking at other candidates:
> http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp4/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=perl&lang2=ruby

For great fun, look at Perl vs. Haskell GHC.

-miles
-- 
o The existentialist, not having a pillow, goes everywhere with the book by
  Sullivan, _I am going to spit on your graves_.


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

The Debian community should influence the next Haskell language standard

[Isaac Jones]

Fellow Debianers,

I'm helping to organize the process of creating the next version of
Haskell[1], and I really want it to be a language that Debian
developers can use.

The Haskell programming language is more-or-less divided into two
"branches". The Haskell 98 standard is the "stable" branch of the
language, and that has been a big success. A lot of progress has been
made over the last few years in the "research" branch of the Haskell
language. It is constantly advancing, and we feel that it is time for
a new standard which reflects those advancements.

One of my goals is to make Haskell more suitable for "practical"
applications such as those that the Debian community might find for
it.  We've come pretty far over the last few years in infrastructure.
We're working to develop CPAN-like and apt-get-like systems for
Haskell.  Haskell has been used for practical applications such as
Darcs, an advanced revision control system, and Pugs, the Perl 6
implementation.

I'd like to ask the Debian community to look at Haskell98 and some of
the "research" extensions[2] and give us some input as to what would
make Haskell more attractive to you.  I'm guessing that most folks
should be able to pick it up pretty easily, though if you've never
seen a functional programming language before, you'll be exposed to
some new concepts.

I think that the tutorial, "Yet Another Haskell Tutorial"[3] is pretty
good, and you can apt-get install hugs or ghc6 for a compiler or
interpreter.  That should be enough to get you started.  /join
#haskell if you are looking for help.

Please email me with any comments or questions.


peace,

  isaac


[1] Haskell': http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/haskell-prime

[2] Some language extensions:

http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/users_guide/ghc-language-features.html

[3] Yet Another Haskell Tutorial: http://www.isi.edu/~hdaume/htut/


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: when and why did python(-minimal) become essential?

[Ron Johnson]

On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 11:18 +0900, Miles Bader wrote:
> Eduard Bloch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >> Boot speed and perl does not really sound a match either.
> >
> > Nack. Even following the synthetic benchmarks on
> > http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/, they are quite comparable,
> > especially when looking at other candidates:
> > http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp4/benchmark.php?test=all〈=perl&lang2=ruby
> 
> For great fun, look at Perl vs. Haskell GHC.

Let's implement the boot scripts in GForth!!!
http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp4/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=perl&lang2=gforth

-- 
-
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson, LA USA

"He was about as useful in a crisis as a sheep."
Dorothy Eden