Re: NMUs wanted: C++ library packages in need of uploading

[Isaac Clerencia]

On Monday, 18 July 2005 21:29, Isaac Clerencia wrote:
> On Monday, 18 July 2005 21:22, Isaac Clerencia wrote:
> > On Monday, 18 July 2005 21:11, Isaac Clerencia wrote:
> > > On Monday, 18 July 2005 03:54, Steve Langasek wrote:
> > > > zipios++
> > >
> > > I intended to NMU this one before the transition, so I guess I can NMU
> > > it now, do the transition and fix the crash in amd64.
> >
> > Uhm, shouldn't cppunit be rebuilt before zipios++?
zipios++ only requires cppunit to build some tests which are neither installed 
in the system nor run while building (yeah, doesn't look any good), so it 
didn't required a transitioned cppunit. I've already uploaded it.

Best regards

-- 
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Re: lsb-base

[Stig Sandbeck Mathisen]

Andreas Barth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> It would be better if there would be some configureable option in
> lsb-base.

,
| Angry Fruit Salad?
| 
| [yes] [no]
`

Anyway, I like the pretty colours.  It makes it very easy to see if
something is wrong during boot or service startup with just a glance.

-- 
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Re: Documentation of alioth?

[Raphael Hertzog]

Le mardi 12 juillet 2005 à 16:32 +0200, Florian Weimer a écrit :
> > Why should I spend days building a reference system for bug
> > reproduction and bug removal when the actual buggy system is readily
> > available to its admins?
> 
> Or, put in a more constructive way, what is the correct way to proceed
> if you want to debug such bugs yourself, on Debian's machines?
> Suppose I had an afternoon to spare on such a bug, how could I help
> the alioth maintainers?

I tried to put all the answers to your questions in that page:
http://wiki.debian.net/?Alioth

Now haydn is running sarge so it's relatively easy to duplicate alioth
on a local (virtual) machine (before the mixture of woody/sarge was
suboptimal). You have the sources and the packages running on alioth...
you can provide patches that apply to Alioth's version of gforge.

Apart from some logs, all the configuration files are readable on alioth
so you can investigate problems like everyone. (BTW, I'm mostly in the
same situation than everyone, I don't have root rights to read the
logs).

Cheers,
-- 
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Re: lsb-base

[Andreas Barth]

* Stig Sandbeck Mathisen ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [050719 09:31]:
> Andreas Barth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > It would be better if there would be some configureable option in
> > lsb-base.
 
> ,
> | Angry Fruit Salad?
> | 
> | [yes] [no]
> `

configuration option like in "set style = plain" in
/etc/defaults/lsb-base if you don't like the colours.

> Anyway, I like the pretty colours.  It makes it very easy to see if
> something is wrong during boot or service startup with just a glance.

I didn't say _anything_ against using them as default, but giving the
people the choice to select another style without the need to make a
custom package would be good.


Cheers,
Andi


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Re: Who needs libcurl3?

[Torsten Landschoff]

On Mon, Jul 18, 2005 at 09:28:27PM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote:
> > That's not too helpful. I don't really want to support code I did not
> > understand. I'd rather write it myself or have Steve care about problems
> > in it...
> 
> The idea is to get upstream to include/support it...

The theory sound nice. But before upstream supports it it will probably
stay in the Debian package for a while. Also I won't expect upstream to
include it if it does not apply nicely to the development branch. 

In any case, let's stop discussing this and see if/when somebody does
the work.

Greetings

Torsten



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Re: lsb-base

[Thomas Hood]

The lsb functions currently only support this:

Doing something...[ ok ]

They don't support:

Doing something...doing something else... [ ok ]

or

Doing something...warning: no foo...  [ ok ]

For this a log_progress_msg() would have to be added.
-- 
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Re: lsb-base

[Bernhard R. Link]

* Stig Sandbeck Mathisen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [050719 09:30]:
> Anyway, I like the pretty colours.  It makes it very easy to see if
> something is wrong during boot or service startup with just a glance.

That's one of the reasons I dislike colours. Having other peoples
system display fatal error messages followed by a light green "OK"
might be funny, I'd not like to see it on mine. While Suse's and Redhat's
failure does admittedly not mean it will also happen to Debian, it
still gives a hint about the likelyhood of success. 

Hochachtungsvoll,
  Bernhard R. Link


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debian mentors & ubuntu

[Nico Golde]

Heyho,
why is mentors.debian.net powered by Ubuntu?
Regards Nico

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Re: debian mentors & ubuntu

[Martin Pitt]

Hi!

Nico Golde [2005-07-19 12:21 +0200]:
> Heyho,
> why is mentors.debian.net powered by Ubuntu?

This gave me a good laugh, and it's certainly way better than "SuSE"
or "Micro$$$ IIS" :-), but still a bit embarrasing...

Martin
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Re: debian mentors & ubuntu

[Petter Reinholdtsen]

[Martin Pitt]
> This gave me a good laugh, and it's certainly way better than "SuSE"
> or "Micro$$$ IIS" :-), but still a bit embarrasing...

Why is it embarrasing?  Are Ubuntu sponsoring the machine, the hosting
site, providing the OS, or what?


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Re: debian mentors & ubuntu

[Nico Golde]

* Nico Golde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005-07-19 12:23]:
> why is mentors.debian.net powered by Ubuntu?

don't understand me wrong, this is no rant against ubuntu, i
just wondered...
regards nico
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Re: debian mentors & ubuntu

[Nigel Jones]

On 19/07/05, Martin Pitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> Nico Golde [2005-07-19 12:21 +0200]:
> > Heyho,
> > why is mentors.debian.net powered by Ubuntu?
> 
> This gave me a good laugh, and it's certainly way better than "SuSE"
> or "Micro$$$ IIS" :-), but still a bit embarrasing...
> 
I think the Microsoft website relaying through a Linux-based server is better.

And it doesn't beat my personal favourite.  New Zealand Qualifications
Authority using Apache 2 with mod-ssl etc... on a Windows 2000 Server.

> Martin
> --
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> Ubuntu Developer   http://www.ubuntu.com
> Debian Developer   http://www.debian.org
> 
> 
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> 


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Re: Removal of transitional dummy packages

[Santiago Vila]

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005, Don Armstrong wrote:

> On Mon, 18 Jul 2005, Santiago Vila wrote:
> > On Mon, 18 Jul 2005, Steve Langasek wrote:
> > > In this context, woody->sarge transition packages are just one
> > > form of useless cruft that we should strive to get rid of before
> > > the etch release. They're not the biggest source of cruft, but on
> > > the other hand they are (IMHO) one of the sources for which the
> > > proper course of action is clearest.
> > 
> > In such case, could we please codify that in policy?
> 
> Surely the release manager's decision on the matter when properly
> publisized is information enough?

Do you think having this in policy may be harmful? If so, why?

We supported upgrades that skip releases in the past, and now we do
not (I suppose the fact that our release cycles are much longer have
something to do with this). Isn't this the kind of thing that we
usually document in policy?

If I have been rude in a previous message (sorry) is because I've seen
a wishlist item becoming a "RC bug" by way of "unknown" magic.


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Re: debian mentors & ubuntu

[Nico Golde]

Hello Martin,

* Martin Pitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005-07-19 12:37]:
> Nico Golde [2005-07-19 12:21 +0200]:
> > Heyho,
> > why is mentors.debian.net powered by Ubuntu?
> 
> This gave me a good laugh, and it's certainly way better than "SuSE"
> or "Micro$$$ IIS" :-), but still a bit embarrasing...

I don't undestand what has ubuntu to do with a site which is
mainly used by new debian maintainers and their packages?
please explain.
regards nico

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Re: debian mentors & ubuntu

[Willi Mann]

 > Why is it embarrasing?  Are Ubuntu sponsoring the machine, the hosting

site, providing the OS, or what?


At least the OS seems to be Ubuntu:

$ telnet mentors.debian.net 80
Trying 212.12.58.146...
Connected to mentors.workaround.org.
Escape character is '^]'.
GET / HTTP/1.1

HTTP/1.1 400 Bad Request
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 11:09:32 GMT
Server: Apache/2.0.53 (Ubuntu) PHP/4.3.10-10ubuntu4
Content-Length: 226
Connection: close
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
...


Willi


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Re: debian mentors & ubuntu

[martin f krafft]

also sprach Nico Golde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005.07.19.1309 +0200]:
> I don't undestand what has ubuntu to do with a site which is
> mainly used by new debian maintainers and their packages?

a new debian maintainer is also a ubuntu maintainer in some sense.

www.debian.org runs on apache. what does apache have to do with
debian?

why do you even care?

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Re: debian mentors & ubuntu

[Nico Golde]

Hi,
* martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005-07-19 14:07]:
> also sprach Nico Golde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005.07.19.1309 +0200]:
> > I don't undestand what has ubuntu to do with a site which is
> > mainly used by new debian maintainers and their packages?
> 
> a new debian maintainer is also a ubuntu maintainer in some sense.

mhm yes in some way :)

> www.debian.org runs on apache. what does apache have to do with
> debian?
> 
> why do you even care?

oh please, i just wondered this wasn't intended as a rant
against ubuntu.
regards nico
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Re: debian mentors & ubuntu

[Martin Pitt]

Hi Nico!

Nico Golde [2005-07-19 13:09 +0200]:
> Hello Martin,
> 
> * Martin Pitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005-07-19 12:37]:
> > Nico Golde [2005-07-19 12:21 +0200]:
> > > Heyho,
> > > why is mentors.debian.net powered by Ubuntu?
> > 
> > This gave me a good laugh, and it's certainly way better than "SuSE"
> > or "Micro$$$ IIS" :-), but still a bit embarrasing...
> 
> I don't undestand what has ubuntu to do with a site which is
> mainly used by new debian maintainers and their packages?

As I tried to make clear in my initial reply, I don't have the
slightest clue. It's not any official part of the Ubuntu world
domination plan. :-)

Maybe the admins just found Ubuntu easier to install, although it
should not really make a big difference on a server, compared to a
Debian installation.

Martin

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Re: debian mentors & ubuntu

[John Hasler]

martin f krafft writes:
> a new debian maintainer is also a ubuntu maintainer in some sense.

Only in the rather strained sense that she is also a Libranet, Mepis,
and Linspire maintainer.
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Re: debian mentors & ubuntu

[Norbert Tretkowski]

* martin f krafft wrote:
> also sprach Nico Golde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005.07.19.1309 +0200]:
> > I don't undestand what has ubuntu to do with a site which is
> > mainly used by new debian maintainers and their packages?
> 
> a new debian maintainer is also a ubuntu maintainer in some sense.

Erm, no.

Norbert


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Re: debian mentors & ubuntu

[Hamish Moffatt]

On Tue, Jul 19, 2005 at 12:42:13PM +0200, Nico Golde wrote:
> * Nico Golde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005-07-19 12:23]:
> > why is mentors.debian.net powered by Ubuntu?
> 
> don't understand me wrong, this is no rant against ubuntu, i
> just wondered...

Cos it's trendy and Debian isn't.

Unrelated question: why was mentors.debian.net delegated (historically)
to non-DDs?

Hamish
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Re: debian mentors & ubuntu

[David Nusinow]

On Tue, Jul 19, 2005 at 02:03:34PM +0200, martin f krafft wrote:
> also sprach Nico Golde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005.07.19.1309 +0200]:
> > I don't undestand what has ubuntu to do with a site which is
> > mainly used by new debian maintainers and their packages?
> 
> a new debian maintainer is also a ubuntu maintainer in some sense.
> 
> www.debian.org runs on apache. what does apache have to do with
> debian?

This is a crap argument and you know it. www.debian.org runs a version of
apache cared for and distributed by Debian itself. We have a vested
interest in the software used to run our systems, and to not run that on
our own site shows a lack of confidence and pride in our own work.

> why do you even care?

It's rather pathetic that the Debian mentors site doesn't run the operating
system that's the reason for its existence.

 - David Nusinow


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Re: debian mentors & ubuntu

[Julien BLACHE]

martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> a new debian maintainer is also a ubuntu maintainer in some sense.

Great news! Where's my paycheck?

(both of the above "arguments" have already been raised long ago, yes.)

JB.

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Re: debian mentors & ubuntu

[martin f krafft]

also sprach David Nusinow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005.07.19.1507 +0200]:
> > why do you even care?
> 
> It's rather pathetic that the Debian mentors site doesn't run the operating
> system that's the reason for its existence.

Go ahead and provide hosting for it on a Debian machine, set it up,
then apply for the domain to be moved.

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Re: debian mentors & ubuntu

[martin f krafft]

also sprach Julien BLACHE <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005.07.19.1448 +0200]:
> > a new debian maintainer is also a ubuntu maintainer in some sense.
> 
> Great news! Where's my paycheck?

You don't get paid for being an Ubuntu developer.

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Re: debian mentors & ubuntu

[Nico Golde]

Hi,
* Julien BLACHE <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005-07-19 15:15]:
> martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > a new debian maintainer is also a ubuntu maintainer in some sense.
> 
> Great news! Where's my paycheck?
> 
> (both of the above "arguments" have already been raised long ago, yes.)

don't flame about it :) i mean you are in the maintainers
field so in some sense you are :)
regards nico
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Re: debian mentors & ubuntu

[Philipp Kern]

On Tue, 2005-07-19 at 23:06 +1000, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
> Unrelated question: why was mentors.debian.net delegated (historically)
> to non-DDs?

Because a DD delegated it to them.

Kind regards,
Philipp Kern


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Re: debian mentors & ubuntu

[David Nusinow]

On Tue, Jul 19, 2005 at 03:14:32PM +0200, martin f krafft wrote:
> also sprach David Nusinow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005.07.19.1507 +0200]:
> > It's rather pathetic that the Debian mentors site doesn't run the operating
> > system that's the reason for its existence.
> 
> Go ahead and provide hosting for it on a Debian machine, set it up,
> then apply for the domain to be moved.

Asking me to do this doesn't make the situation any less pathetic. It's
also not worth the effort, seeing as very few packages of note are actually
distributed from it as far as I've seen.

 - David Nusinow


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hoi tham

[Ngoc Tuyet Danowski]

Kinh chao anh chi,

anh chi vui long cho toi duoc biet gia ve May Bay di trong giua thang Tam
nay. Toi ca mua 2 ve. Anh chi co the cho toi duoc biet la bat dau tu ngay
nao toi co the mua ve duoc re nhat 0? V atat ca chi tiet ve thu tuc mua ve
va chuyen tien.

Chan thanh cam on anh chi.

Chao than ai

Ngoc Tuyet, Danowski


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Re: debian mentors & ubuntu

[Jon Dowland]

On Tue, Jul 19, 2005 at 09:07:13AM -0400, David Nusinow wrote:
 
> It's rather pathetic that the Debian mentors site doesn't run the
> operating system that's the reason for its existence.

It depends on the reasoning behind the OS choice.

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Re: lsb-base

[Jon Dowland]

On Tue, Jul 19, 2005 at 09:30:33AM +0200, Stig Sandbeck Mathisen wrote:
> Anyway, I like the pretty colours.  It makes it very easy to see if

Colours aside, having the last six-or-so characters dedicated to a
PASS/FAIL style string makes summing up the boot process at a glance
much easier, and makes the boot procedure generally look tidier.

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Re: debian mentors & ubuntu

[Philipp Kern]

On Tue, 2005-07-19 at 09:07 -0400, David Nusinow wrote:
> It's rather pathetic that the Debian mentors site doesn't run the operating
> system that's the reason for its existence.

Well, at least it's Debian-derived? Just one leaf lower in the tree.

I don't see or have any problem with mentors.debian.net running Ubuntu,
but I still don't get why the button is displayed on the front page.

Kind regards,
Philipp Kern



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OT: debian mentors & ubuntu

[Ben Armstrong]

On Tue, 2005-07-19 at 12:21 +0200, Nico Golde wrote:
> Heyho,
> why is mentors.debian.net powered by Ubuntu?

http://mentors.debian.net/
About this repository
Welcome to the debian-mentors public software repository.
...
Please note that this service is not run as a part of the
official debian.org web site.*
...
If you have questions which you do not find answered on these
web pages please write an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Ben
* And if it were, you'd ask debian-project, not debian-devel.


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Re: BTS version tracking

[Colin Watson]

On Mon, Jul 18, 2005 at 10:28:06PM +0200, Andreas Barth wrote:
> * Colin Watson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [050718 17:21]:
> > The BTS records that bug #NN was fixed in 1.1-sarge1 and 1.3, and
> > let's say the bug was found in version 1.1. Since it has the changelogs
> > (it gets these from ftp-master), it can build up a tree of which package
> > versions are based on which other package versions, which in this case
> > looks like this:
> 
> How does the BTS cope with versions that are not available from
> ftp-master, but where the maintainer adds "found in" for them?

It records them for possible future reference, but otherwise ignores
them.

Unrecognised fixed-in versions are similarly mostly ignored, although
the CGI scripts will sometimes use the presence of a fixed-in version
*somewhere* as an indicator that the bug is fixed. This is only as a
last-resort fallback if no better information is available, though.

Cheers,

-- 
Colin Watson   [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Who needs libcurl3? (was libcurl3-dev: A development package linked again gnutls needed)

[Domenico Andreoli]

On Sun, Jul 17, 2005 at 03:19:54PM -0400, sean finney wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 17, 2005 at 09:04:57PM +0200, Elimar Riesebieter wrote:
> > Why not building curl --without-sssl and --with-gnutls=/usr? Maybe a
> > NMU?
> 
> this is definitely NOT a reason to NMU libcurl.  remember that it is
> your package that is "broken".  of course you could still file a
> wishlist bug against libcurl asking to compile against gnutls
> instead, but it's up to the maintainer in question to decide.

oh, many thanks for the stop :)

i saw the bug report, i'm sorry to not have commented the request which
i find absolutely reasonable. i'll try to figure out if curl may suffer
from limitations due to the use of gnutls in place of openssl.

i doubt seriously a new package like libcurl3-gnutls is appropriate,
but let me know your opinion.

is this stuff urgent?

cheers
domenico

-[ Domenico Andreoli, aka cavok
 --[ http://people.debian.org/~cavok/gpgkey.asc
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broken g++ transition packages

[Mike Furr]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


The following is a list of packages which are linked against libstdc++5
on some architectures and libstdc++6 on others.  This list only contains
packages from Section: base/devel/libdevel/libs/oldlibs, as the full
list contains many things waiting for other packages to transition first
.  Format is "binary-pkg (source-pkg) [broken archs]"

These packages were uploaded very early in the transition and some of
the buildds did not have the right g++ version:
  prcs [arm hppa ia64 m68k sparc]
  cssc [ia64 hppa sparc]
  libflash0 [m68k arm i386]
If you maintain one of these packages please upload a new version ASAP.


These packages were all auto-built with the right version, but the
maintainer uploaded a package with the wrong ABI:
  libmyspell3c2 (myspell) [powerpc]
  libtunepimp2 (libtunepimp) [powerpc]
Maintainers, please upload a binary NMU for these packages to fix them.
 As I understand it, even if other packages linked against the old
version of these, but used g++-4.0, only these packages need to be rebuilt.

The arm buildds seemed to have continued using an old g++ for a brief
bit in the transition.  The following packages were built incorrectly
only on arm:
  libcoin40c2 (coin2) [arm]
  libenchant1c2 (enchant) [arm]
  libdar3 (dar) [arm]
  libgc1c2 (libgc) [arm]
  librudiments0 [arm]
  libclalsadrv1 (clalsadrv) [arm]
  librlog1c2 [arm]
  libsigc++-2.0-0c2 (libsigc++-2.0) [arm]
- already discussed this one on IRC w/ vorlon and may be rebuilt by
  this point
If you have an arm system, please bin-NMU these.

The wxwindows2.4 package was autobuilt last week and although the build
log shows g++ 4.0 was installed, a dependency on libstdc++5 was added.
I haven't discovered why yet.

Cheers,
- -Mike
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Re: debian mentors & ubuntu

[Steve Langasek]

On Tue, Jul 19, 2005 at 11:06:28PM +1000, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 19, 2005 at 12:42:13PM +0200, Nico Golde wrote:
> > * Nico Golde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005-07-19 12:23]:
> > > why is mentors.debian.net powered by Ubuntu?
> > 
> > don't understand me wrong, this is no rant against ubuntu, i
> > just wondered...

> Cos it's trendy and Debian isn't.

> Unrelated question: why was mentors.debian.net delegated (historically)
> to non-DDs?

Who cares (about either point)?  Nothing under debian.net is an official
project resource; I don't remember if there are guidelines governing use of
the debian.net DNS service, but if there are, they aren't particularly
strict.

Any negative associations you may have as a result of this site reflect only
on mentors.debian.net, not on the Debian project.

-- 
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer


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Re: broken g++ transition packages

[Rene Engelhard]

Mike Furr wrote:
> These packages were all auto-built with the right version, but the

Wrong. I has to do a binary-NMU for ARM...

> maintainer uploaded a package with the wrong ABI:
>   libmyspell3c2 (myspell) [powerpc]

*shrugs*. Fixed.

Grüße/Regards,

Rene
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Re: NMUs wanted: C++ library packages in need of uploading

[Thomas Viehmann]

Hi.

Steve Langasek wrote:
> libgwenhywfar
> libktoblzcheck
I'll do these (co-maintained by myself) as well as the dependencies.

Kind regards

T.

P.S.: Not that I mind, but I read Matthias mail to d-d-a (dated July 5)
as 0-day NMUs for *broken* uploads, and 5-day NMUs for no maintainer
upload...
-- 
Thomas Viehmann, http://thomas.viehmann.net/


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Re: dpkg: should it remove in reverse depends order?

[Goswin von Brederlow]

Lars Wirzenius <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> ma, 2005-07-18 kello 18:51 +0200, Goswin von Brederlow kirjoitti:
>> The problem is fontconfig / libfontconfig1. No one else is to
>> blame. Cyclic depends will be broken at random places and will cause
>> problems.
>
> Ah yes, of course, I should have realized that. Thanks. It's not a dpkg
> problem, and I can deal with it by adding some ignores to the piuparts
> command line.

Actualy I would prefer if you don't. This is a real bug and should be
noticed by piuparts.

MfG
Goswin


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Re: dpkg: should it remove in reverse depends order?

[Lars Wirzenius]

ti, 2005-07-19 kello 22:04 +0200, Goswin von Brederlow kirjoitti:
> Actualy I would prefer if you don't. This is a real bug and should be
> noticed by piuparts.

Sure. I'm only ignoring the files fontconfig leaves behind now that I
know there is a problem so that I get rather fewer error logs to wade
through.


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Re: NMUs wanted: C++ library packages in need of uploading

[Steve Langasek]

On Tue, Jul 19, 2005 at 09:46:18PM +0200, Thomas Viehmann wrote:
> Steve Langasek wrote:
> > libgwenhywfar
> > libktoblzcheck
> I'll do these (co-maintained by myself) as well as the dependencies.

Great, thanks.

> P.S.: Not that I mind, but I read Matthias mail to d-d-a (dated July 5)
> as 0-day NMUs for *broken* uploads, and 5-day NMUs for no maintainer
> upload...

A clarification was posted at
.

-- 
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer


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Re: OT: debian mentors & ubuntu

[Michael K. Edwards]

On 7/19/05, Ben Armstrong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, 2005-07-19 at 12:21 +0200, Nico Golde wrote:
> > Heyho,
> > why is mentors.debian.net powered by Ubuntu?
> 
> http://mentors.debian.net/
> About this repository
> Welcome to the debian-mentors public software repository.
> ...
> Please note that this service is not run as a part of the
> official debian.org web site.*
> ...
> If you have questions which you do not find answered on these
> web pages please write an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Ben
> * And if it were, you'd ask debian-project, not debian-devel.

And if so, hopefully they would answer that it reflects a judgment
within the discretion of its principal sysadmin(s), and that success
for a Debian derivative is not failure for Debian.  And hopefully they
would be able to point to other services that run on other Debian
derivatives, or at least a plan to deploy such.  And hopefully this
would reflect a generally more positive attitude among DDs towards the
leveraging of Debian's mechanisms and code in good faith by
profit-seeking entities than one would gather from reading d-d.

Call me an unreasoning optimist (or vilify me as a traitor to
communitarian ideals), but I think it is not out of the question for
the Debian project and community to evolve in that direction.  Might
contribute to more nuanced views of legal issues, too.

Cheers,
- Michael
(IANADD)

Re: BTS version tracking

[Matthew Palmer]

On Mon, Jul 18, 2005 at 12:06:29PM +0100, Colin Watson wrote:
> A frequently requested feature for the bug tracking system in recent years
> has been the ability to track which bugs apply to which distributions,
> so that, eg, maintainers and others can tell which bugs that have been
> fixed in unstable still apply to packages in testing or stable.
> 
> This has now been implemented. 

May I just say, to Colin, Anthony, James, and anyone else who had the
slightest bit to do with implementing this functionality:

Thank You.

It's a tricky problem, both on the UI and infrastructure sides of the coin,
it must have taken quite some time to put it all together, and I'm glad that
we've got it.  This will make debbugs even better to use now.

- Matt


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Re: debian mentors & ubuntu

[Miles Bader]

David Nusinow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> It's rather pathetic that the Debian mentors site doesn't run the operating
> system that's the reason for its existence.

Unbuntu is 99% Debian (it would be quite reasonable to describe an
ubuntu system as "running debian"), so what's the big deal?

[The small amount of stuff that _is_ different seems to mostly be
high-profile end-user GUI apps that aren't going to have much
significance for a server anyway.]

-Miles
-- 
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Re: debian mentors & ubuntu

[David Nusinow]

On Wed, Jul 20, 2005 at 10:30:14AM +0900, Miles Bader wrote:
> David Nusinow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > It's rather pathetic that the Debian mentors site doesn't run the operating
> > system that's the reason for its existence.
> 
> Unbuntu is 99% Debian (it would be quite reasonable to describe an
> ubuntu system as "running debian"), so what's the big deal?
> 
> [The small amount of stuff that _is_ different seems to mostly be
> high-profile end-user GUI apps that aren't going to have much
> significance for a server anyway.]

Then why not run Debian?

 - David Nusinow


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Re: debian mentors & ubuntu

[Miles Bader]

David Nusinow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> Unbuntu is 99% Debian (it would be quite reasonable to describe an
>> ubuntu system as "running debian"), so what's the big deal?
>> 
>> [The small amount of stuff that _is_ different seems to mostly be
>> high-profile end-user GUI apps that aren't going to have much
>> significance for a server anyway.]
>
> Then why not run Debian?

I've no idea; maybe the ubuntu CDs were handy.  In all likelihood it's
some completely random reason.

-Miles
-- 
Americans are broad-minded people.  They'll accept the fact that a person can
be an alcoholic, a dope fiend, a wife beater, and even a newspaperman, but if a
man doesn't drive, there is something wrong with him.  -- Art Buchwald


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Re: Who needs libcurl3? (was libcurl3-dev: A development package linked again gnutls needed)

[sean finney]

hi,

On Mon, Jul 18, 2005 at 09:45:09PM +0200, Domenico Andreoli wrote:
> i saw the bug report, i'm sorry to not have commented the request which
> i find absolutely reasonable. i'll try to figure out if curl may suffer
> from limitations due to the use of gnutls in place of openssl.

i would guess that there aren't any, though that is making the perhaps
naïve assumption that libcurl-dev properly compartmentalizes away the
ssl code from its own api.

> i doubt seriously a new package like libcurl3-gnutls is appropriate,
> but let me know your opinion.

i think that would solve the problem by muting the symptoms.  what happens
when the next free-but-not-quite-gpl-compatible licensed software is
linked against libcurl (or something similar)?

i know i'm repeating myself here, but the real fix is to politely
solicit the upstream author to change or add a clause to their license
that makes such allowances.  that, or change the build options of the
gpl packages that are linking (directly or indirectly) against such
libraries so that they do not.

if you want to switch support for libcurl to gnutls in the meantime,
it would be a very nice thing of you to do, but it neither solves
the problem in the larger scheme of things nor would i consider it an
obligation on your part to do so.



sean


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Re: debian mentors & ubuntu

[Matthew Palmer]

On Tue, Jul 19, 2005 at 12:21:09PM +0200, Nico Golde wrote:
> why is mentors.debian.net powered by Ubuntu?

Why is this question on debian-devel, instead of in the inbox of the m.d.n
maintainers?

- Matt


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Re: debian mentors & ubuntu

[Matthew Palmer]

On Tue, Jul 19, 2005 at 11:06:28PM +1000, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
> Unrelated question: why was mentors.debian.net delegated (historically)
> to non-DDs?

Because those were the people that decided they wanted the service, and
dedicated the time to getting it (and keeping it) operational?

- Matt


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Re: debian mentors & ubuntu

[Matthew Palmer]

On Tue, Jul 19, 2005 at 09:34:28AM -0400, David Nusinow wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 19, 2005 at 03:14:32PM +0200, martin f krafft wrote:
> > also sprach David Nusinow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005.07.19.1507 +0200]:
> > > It's rather pathetic that the Debian mentors site doesn't run the 
> > > operating
> > > system that's the reason for its existence.
> > 
> > Go ahead and provide hosting for it on a Debian machine, set it up,
> > then apply for the domain to be moved.
> 
> Asking me to do this doesn't make the situation any less pathetic. It's
> also not worth the effort, seeing as very few packages of note are actually
> distributed from it as far as I've seen.

The intention, as I understand it, isn't to be a general-purpose package
repository (at least, last time I looked at it, no pre-built binary packages
were provided), but to be a "staging area" of sorts for packages which
people wanted sponsored into the archive.

The value of the packages therein is a subjective matter, and one which I,
for one, am not touching with my 10 foot pole (Barge, mk1, mod0).

- Matt


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aspell upgrade woes

[Thomas Bushnell BSG]

So aspell changed the library name to libaspell15c2, which breaks all
the existing packages that use libaspell.  

Was this really an ABI change in libaspell?  If not, there was no
reason to make the change as I understand it.  Were high-severity bugs
filed on all the packages that depend on the library, requesting
recompiles?

My understanding was that this upgrade would *not* normally change
library package names, so I'm wondering why this one did.  The aspell
changelog doesn't contain anything illuminating.

Thomas


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Re: aspell upgrade woes

[Thomas Bushnell BSG]

Brian Nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Thomas Bushnell BSG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> So aspell changed the library name to libaspell15c2, which breaks all
>> the existing packages that use libaspell.  
>>
>> Was this really an ABI change in libaspell?  If not, there was no
>> reason to make the change as I understand it.  Were high-severity bugs
>> filed on all the packages that depend on the library, requesting
>> recompiles?
>>
>> My understanding was that this upgrade would *not* normally change
>> library package names, so I'm wondering why this one did.  The aspell
>> changelog doesn't contain anything illuminating.
>
> Uhh...
>
> aspell (0.60.3-2) unstable; urgency=low
>
>   * debian/control: renamed libaspell15 to libaspell15c2 for the GCC 4.0
> ABI change transition

So, to repeat, since apparently my questions were not clear enough:

1: Was there an ABI change in libaspell15 itself?  (In the
*programming* *source-level* interface?)  Which functions interfaces
changed, and why were the changes not noted in the changelog?

2: Were high severity bugs filed on all the packages that depend on
the library, requesting recompiles?


Thomas


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Re: BTS version tracking

[Brian May]

> "Colin" == Colin Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Colin> A frequently requested feature for the bug tracking system
Colin> in recent years has been the ability to track which bugs
Colin> apply to which distributions, so that, eg, maintainers and
Colin> others can tell which bugs that have been fixed in unstable
Colin> still apply to packages in testing or stable.

Colin> This has now been implemented.

Congratulations for anyone involved in writing this much requested
feature.

Not only did you implement it, but it appears you have considered many
different situations.

Now my top wishlist is support for this new system in apt-listbugs
.
-- 
Brian May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: aspell upgrade woes

[Thomas Bushnell BSG]

Brian Nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

[helpful stuff]

Thanks, I understand now.


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Re: aspell upgrade woes

[Brian Nelson]

Thomas Bushnell BSG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> So aspell changed the library name to libaspell15c2, which breaks all
> the existing packages that use libaspell.  
>
> Was this really an ABI change in libaspell?  If not, there was no
> reason to make the change as I understand it.  Were high-severity bugs
> filed on all the packages that depend on the library, requesting
> recompiles?
>
> My understanding was that this upgrade would *not* normally change
> library package names, so I'm wondering why this one did.  The aspell
> changelog doesn't contain anything illuminating.

Uhh...

aspell (0.60.3-2) unstable; urgency=low

  * debian/control: renamed libaspell15 to libaspell15c2 for the GCC 4.0
ABI change transition

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Re: aspell upgrade woes

[Brian Nelson]

Thomas Bushnell BSG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Brian Nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> Thomas Bushnell BSG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>
>>> So aspell changed the library name to libaspell15c2, which breaks all
>>> the existing packages that use libaspell.  
>>>
>>> Was this really an ABI change in libaspell?  If not, there was no
>>> reason to make the change as I understand it.  Were high-severity
> bugs
>>> filed on all the packages that depend on the library, requesting
>>> recompiles?
>>>
>>> My understanding was that this upgrade would *not* normally change
>>> library package names, so I'm wondering why this one did.  The aspell
>>> changelog doesn't contain anything illuminating.
>>
>> Uhh...
>>
>> aspell (0.60.3-2) unstable; urgency=low
>>
>> * debian/control: renamed libaspell15 to libaspell15c2 for the GCC 4.0
>> ABI change transition
>
> So, to repeat, since apparently my questions were not clear enough:
>
> 1: Was there an ABI change in libaspell15 itself?  (In the
> *programming* *source-level* interface?)  Which functions interfaces
> changed, and why were the changes not noted in the changelog?

Uh... no...

http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2005/07/msg1.html

It's a C++ library and the ABI changed due to being compiled with GCC
4.0.

[Actually, although it's written in C++, AFAIK it only exports a C
interface so the transition may not have been necessary.  I only
realized this yesterday though and I'm not entirely sure a
non-transition would be safe.]


> 2: Were high severity bugs filed on all the packages that depend on
> the library, requesting recompiles?

Not yet, presumably because a huge portion of unstable needs to undergo
the transition anyway.

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Re: BTS version tracking

[Brian Nelson]

Colin Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
[...]
> The 'reopen' command takes an optional submitter argument, so it was
> difficult to get a version in here unambiguously. Instead, we've
> introduced a new 'found' command, which says "I've found the bug in this
> version of the package". You can use this whether the bug is open or
> closed; if the bug's closed and you give a version more recent than the
> last recorded fixed version, the bug will be considered open again.
>
>   found 1234567 1.3-2

Shouldn't that be, "you give a version more recent than *or equal to*
the last recorded fixed version..."?

What if the maintainer uploads a version, say 1.3-2 (which is still the
most recent version), which supposedly fixes bug 1234567.  However, I
test it and find that it's actually not fixed.  Presumably, I would do:

  found 1234567 1.3-2

However, since 1.3-2 is equal to the current version, the BTS would
erroneously think that the bug is fixed.  That does seem to match
reality:

  http://bugs.debian.org/316089

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Re: aspell upgrade woes

[Steve Langasek]

On Tue, Jul 19, 2005 at 09:39:23PM -0700, Brian Nelson wrote:
> It's a C++ library and the ABI changed due to being compiled with GCC
> 4.0.

> [Actually, although it's written in C++, AFAIK it only exports a C
> interface so the transition may not have been necessary.  I only
> realized this yesterday though and I'm not entirely sure a
> non-transition would be safe.]

Heh.  I've just confirmed this...

As with libGLU, libaspell is used in enough places that there's a definite
benefit to not breaking package compatibility unnecessarily.  Since
libaspell15c2's shlibs refer to "libaspell15c2 (>= 0.60)", the only way to
provide full compatibility is with two real packages.  I would suggest
restoring libaspell15, and creating a dummy libaspell15c2 package that
depends on libaspell15 and can be dropped once everything has been rebuilt
to use libaspell15 again; that would minimize the disruption caused by the
flip-flopping of the lib name.

Brian, if you agree, I'm happy to prepare a patch.

Cheers,
-- 
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postmodern programmer


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Re: aspell upgrade woes

[Brian Nelson]

Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Tue, Jul 19, 2005 at 09:39:23PM -0700, Brian Nelson wrote:
>> It's a C++ library and the ABI changed due to being compiled with GCC
>> 4.0.
>
>> [Actually, although it's written in C++, AFAIK it only exports a C
>> interface so the transition may not have been necessary.  I only
>> realized this yesterday though and I'm not entirely sure a
>> non-transition would be safe.]
>
> Heh.  I've just confirmed this...
>
> As with libGLU, libaspell is used in enough places that there's a
> definite benefit to not breaking package compatibility unnecessarily.
> Since libaspell15c2's shlibs refer to "libaspell15c2 (>= 0.60)", the
> only way to provide full compatibility is with two real packages.  I
> would suggest restoring libaspell15, and creating a dummy
> libaspell15c2 package that depends on libaspell15 and can be dropped
> once everything has been rebuilt to use libaspell15 again; that would
> minimize the disruption caused by the flip-flopping of the lib name.
>
> Brian, if you agree, I'm happy to prepare a patch.

Reintroducing the libaspell15 could cause problems with /usr/bin/aspell,
since it actually goes outside the C API of libaspell and uses C++
linkage to some symbols.  I "fixed" this bug (#307481) by making
aspell-bin (or now just aspell) depend on the Source-Version of
libaspell.

However, that fix is not in the stable package of aspell.  In stable,
aspell-bin just depends on libaspell15 (>= 0.60), so a partial upgrade
of just libaspell15 would break aspell-bin.  I suppose I could make the
new libaspell15 conflict with the old aspell-bin, but that's rather
clumsy and could make upgrades even more awkward.

I'm not sure what the best thing to do would be.  I'm sort of inclined
to just stick with the transitioned libaspell15c2...

-- 
Society is never going to make any progress until we all learn to
pretend to like each other.


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