Hey! :)

[Amos]

Hey honey! :)

Having tried pills and realizing the importance of sustaining regular
blood levels of the formula through consistent regular dosing, I realized 
my life was far too busy to keep track. With this product I simply 
slap it on and let it do it.s thing, no muss or fuss. 
This patch truly rocks as without having to stress about how often of how many 
pills to take, I.ve acquired a size which makes me feel confident.
The actor becomes an emotional athlete. The process is painful -- my personal 
life suffers.
Diamond
http://geocities.com/windhamlnnlytqtftsn

The best job goes to the preson who can get it done wtihout pasisng the buck or 
cmoing back with excsues.
We need two knids of acqainuantces, one to coplmain to, while to the ohetrs we 
boast.


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Hallo!

[Dominick]

Evening, landlord :)

Having tried pills and realizing the importance of sustaining regular
blood levels of the formula through consistent regular dosing, I realized 
my life was far too busy to keep track. With this product I simply 
slap it on and let it do it.s thing, no muss or fuss. 
This patch truly rocks as without having to stress about how often of how many 
pills to take, I.ve acquired a size which makes me feel confident.
Others have done it before me. I can, too.
Coleman
http://geocities.com/giacintaongwnkqytgk

Don't mstaike atciivty for achiveeemnt.
The aciehvements wihch scoeity rwareds are won at the cost of diimutinon of 
perosnliaty


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Haven't we met somewhere before? :)))

[Malachi]

Pleased to meet you!

Having tried pills and realizing the importance of sustaining regular
blood levels of the formula through consistent regular dosing, I realized 
my life was far too busy to keep track. With this product I simply 
slap it on and let it do it.s thing, no muss or fuss. 
This patch truly rocks as without having to stress about how often of how many 
pills to take, I.ve acquired a size which makes me feel confident.
Not many men have both good fortune and good sense.
Martin
http://geocities.com/ethelincpztpumjs

Some poeple are addicts. If they don't act, they don't exist.
A man who strians hmieslf on the satge is buond, if he is any good, to sratin 
all the poeple sititng in the stalls.


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Bug#305324: ITP: libmail-verp-perl -- Variable Envelope Return Paths (VERP) address encoder/decoder

[Julien BLACHE]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Julien BLACHE <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: libmail-verp-perl
  Version : 0.04
  Upstream Author : Gyepi Sam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://search.cpan.org/~gyepi/
* License : PERL licensing terms (GPL or Artistic)
  Description : Variable Envelope Return Paths (VERP) address 
encoder/decoder

 Mail::Verp provides utility functions to encode and decode Variable Envelope
 Return Paths (VERP) addresses, as described by http://cr.yp.to/proto/verp.txt.
 .
 VERP addresses are used to help manage bounces coming back from remote SMTP
 servers, especially when dispatching mail for a mailing-list; the VERP address
 encodes the recipient address, which can then be recovered from the bounce to
 unsubscribe the address from the mailing-list.
 .
 The encoding uses the method described by 
 http://www.courier-mta.org/draft-varshavchik-verp-smtpext.txt.

This module will be used by the PTS once Raphaël and I will be done writing the
patch :-)

JB.

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Architecture: powerpc (ppc)
Kernel: Linux 2.6.11
Locale: LANG=C, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (charmap=ISO-8859-15)

Alrite :)

[Zachariah]

Good afternoon.

Having tried pills and realizing the importance of sustaining regular
blood levels of the formula through consistent regular dosing, I realized 
my life was far too busy to keep track. With this product I simply 
slap it on and let it do it.s thing, no muss or fuss. 
This patch truly rocks as without having to stress about how often of how many 
pills to take, I.ve acquired a size which makes me feel confident.
To get what you want, STOP doing what isn't working.
Hakeem
http://geocities.com/claybourneslazgqnrvdoboljpfcytg

A fly may sting a sttaely horse and make him wnice but one is but an inesct, 
and the other is a hrose sitll.
Wihle we look to the damrtaist to give romnace to relaism, we ask of the actor 
to give raelism to romance.


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Call to fix bug 302191: libexpat1-dev required for new python-4suite

[Raphael Bossek]

Hi Arno,

could you please fix the #302191 pending for libexpat1-dev package?

I've attached the required patch to #302191 so it should not be a big
problem to make a new release. Without this modification I'm not able
to build the python-4suite package right. I think the same problem may
occur for other exapt based projects out there.

-- 
Raphael Bossek


pgpVGXfvmP9YP.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Bug#305326: ITP: cldump -- Clarion database files extractor

[Julien BLACHE]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Julien BLACHE <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: cldump
  Version : 0.8
  Upstream Author : Julien BLACHE <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://technologeek.org/projects/cldump
* License : GPL
  Description : Clarion database files extractor

 The cldump utility allows you to extract the content of a Clarion database;
 Clarion is a Windows IDE similar to Delphi and others, and has its own
 (simple) database format.
 .
 cldump can export the content of the database to CSV or SQL, plus its own
 "format" which dumps all the meta data along with the data contained in
 the database. When using the SQL output, you'll get a nearly ready-to-go
 dump of the database that will create the table and the indexes and insert
 the data into the table.
 .
 Note that cldump doesn't support all the datatypes yet; patches welcome.

cldump is a good companion to dbview when you need to recover some data from
some Windows applications.

JB.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: 3.1
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable')
Architecture: powerpc (ppc)
Kernel: Linux 2.6.11
Locale: LANG=C, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (charmap=ISO-8859-15)


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unsuscribe

[Markus Bona]

Martin Schulze schrieb:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Format: 1.7
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 18:02:24 +0200
Source: info2www
Binary: info2www
Architecture: source all
Version: 1.2.2.9-20woody1
Distribution: stable-security
Urgency: high
Maintainer: Martin Schulze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Changed-By: Martin Schulze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Description: 
info2www   - Read info files with a WWW browser
Changes: 
info2www (1.2.2.9-20woody1) stable-security; urgency=high
.
  * Non-maintainer upload by the Security Team
  * Applied patch by Uwe Hermann and Justin Pryzby to fix a cross-site
scripting vulnerability [info2www, CAN-2004-1341]
Files: 
68a3d62f9ff13abaf1cd2b2ca479c8e9 600 doc optional info2www_1.2.2.9-20woody1.dsc
2d79050502b938fae36d6d38e1d5084b 12407 doc optional info2www_1.2.2.9.orig.tar.gz
d4bf5b04bfcaa304bbe18969346a281e 27216 doc optional info2www_1.2.2.9-20woody1.diff.gz
93914a2ed64150b8682e8e419f7878ed 34006 doc optional info2www_1.2.2.9-20woody1_all.deb

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)
iD8DBQFCSC2ZW5ql+IAeqTIRAoVXAKCE6A9LOrm2TWwvjwU6q8ZRdJsJkgCfbj+L
gu+V6WaQG8eKkMFoPVRE+As=
=663X
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
Accepted:
info2www_1.2.2.9-20woody1.diff.gz
 to pool/main/i/info2www/info2www_1.2.2.9-20woody1.diff.gz
info2www_1.2.2.9-20woody1.dsc
 to pool/main/i/info2www/info2www_1.2.2.9-20woody1.dsc
info2www_1.2.2.9-20woody1_all.deb
 to pool/main/i/info2www/info2www_1.2.2.9-20woody1_all.deb
 


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Hey honey! :)

[Dalton]

Hey baby :)

Having tried pills and realizing the importance of sustaining regular
blood levels of the formula through consistent regular dosing, I realized 
my life was far too busy to keep track. With this product I simply 
slap it on and let it do it.s thing, no muss or fuss. 
This patch truly rocks as without having to stress about how often of how many 
pills to take, I.ve acquired a size which makes me feel confident.
It is a fine thing to have ability, but the ability to discover ability in 
others is the true test.
Gerard
http://geocities.com/alfonseekttskhqnoayn

Ohetrs have done it bfeore me. I can, too.
The best atocrs do not let the wheels show.


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Re: More DDTP problems

[Martin Zobel-Helas]

Hi all,

On Monday, 04 Apr 2005, you wrote:
> On Apr 4, 2005 4:04 PM, Martin Zobel-Helas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > I am currently on that (started last weekend). Jeroen sent me the CVS
> > tarball. I hoped to finished it at the weekend but it's more than
> > expected and i did not yet understand all code.
> > 
> > Perhaps it is also a good idea if some more people could go over the
> > code, as many eyes see more than two eyes do.
> 
> We've been talking about this with other people involved and I even
> asked Michael Bramer independently (hadn't seen your message).  It
> would be a great thing if DDTP code could be put in alioth, so that
> all of us who want to make it better have access to it.
> 
> Michael said it was ok with him.  Could you start the alioth project
> with the code Jeroen sent you?

sorry for beeing a little bit quite last week. I was on vacation and had
some personal things to do.

I registered a alioth project today, which hopefully will be aprooved
soon. I also CCed grisu in this mail, perhaps he can also give us some
helping hands with the DDTP.

So how do we want to proceed further? I think a good idea might be as
soon as we have the alioth project to upload the tar.gz Jeroen send me.
Then every file which has been checked for trojanisation (and is
negative) could be checked in individualy into the CVS.

Or should we have branch the CVS? This way we might be able to restore
old CVS log messages.

Greetings
Martin


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Re: More DDTP problems

[Jeroen van Wolffelaar]

On Tue, Apr 19, 2005 at 03:51:41PM +0200, Martin Zobel-Helas wrote:
> So how do we want to proceed further? I think a good idea might be as
> soon as we have the alioth project to upload the tar.gz Jeroen send me.
> Then every file which has been checked for trojanisation (and is
> negative) could be checked in individualy into the CVS.

You can just move the ,v files that are checked in place, so you retain
the history. You'll have shell access to /cvsroot/ddtp on alioth to
perform that task once the project is made and the cvs repository
initialized.

--Jeroen

-- 
Jeroen van Wolffelaar
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (also for Jabber & MSN; ICQ: 33944357)
http://Jeroen.A-Eskwadraat.nl


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Re: More DDTP problems

[Martin Zobel-Helas]

Hi all,

On Tuesday, 19 Apr 2005, I wrote:
> I registered a alioth project today, which hopefully will be aprooved
> soon. 

FYI project approoved.

https://alioth.debian.org/projects/ddtp/ is our friend.


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Re: More DDTP problems

[Otavio Salvador]

> "martin" == Martin Zobel-Helas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

martin> Hi all,
martin> On Monday, 04 Apr 2005, you wrote:
>> On Apr 4, 2005 4:04 PM, Martin Zobel-Helas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 
>> > I am currently on that (started last weekend). Jeroen sent me
>> the CVS > tarball. I hoped to finished it at the weekend but
>> it's more than > expected and i did not yet understand all
>> code.
>> > 
>> > Perhaps it is also a good idea if some more people could go
>> over the > code, as many eyes see more than two eyes do.
>> 
>> We've been talking about this with other people involved and I
>> even asked Michael Bramer independently (hadn't seen your
>> message).  It would be a great thing if DDTP code could be put
>> in alioth, so that all of us who want to make it better have
>> access to it.
>> 
>> Michael said it was ok with him.  Could you start the alioth
>> project with the code Jeroen sent you?

martin> sorry for beeing a little bit quite last week. I was on
martin> vacation and had some personal things to do.

martin> I registered a alioth project today, which hopefully will
martin> be aprooved soon. I also CCed grisu in this mail, perhaps
martin> he can also give us some helping hands with the DDTP.

martin> So how do we want to proceed further? I think a good idea
martin> might be as soon as we have the alioth project to upload
martin> the tar.gz Jeroen send me.  Then every file which has been
martin> checked for trojanisation (and is negative) could be
martin> checked in individualy into the CVS.

martin> Or should we have branch the CVS? This way we might be
martin> able to restore old CVS log messages.

I think is best move all there, convert to subversion, and then we
start to look file by file. To "Sign" a file, we can commit
another fine and then we write a small script to check against it.

-- 
O T A V I OS A L V A D O R
-
 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  UIN: 5906116
 GNU/Linux User: 239058 GPG ID: 49A5F855
 Home Page: http://www.freedom.ind.br/otavio
-
"Microsoft gives you Windows ... Linux gives
 you the whole house."


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Re: ITP: spca5xx -- Device driver for USB webcams based on the spca5xx chips

[Carlos C Soto]

Great!

I use this module and wold be great to have it on debian.
I was thinking on put a RFP bug for it.

-- Carlos C Soto :: eclipxe

5 Minutes of Sperancy

[felixproject]

Scusa il disturbo, Gentile Utente del Web,
Excuse the trouble, Nice Users of the Web

Un euro per un mattone! Aiutaci a costruire il canile!
One Dollar for a brick! Help to build the kennel!

Vogliamo lanciare un appello a tutti coloro che vorranno aiutarci nell'impresa 
per cui ci battiamo da quando la nostra Associazione 
è stata fondata: avere una struttura che possa ospitare i nostri adorati 
cuccioli, decorosamente.
Want launch an appeal to all those people that they will want help in the 
enterprise for which beat since our Association 
has been well-grounded:  have a structure that is able entertain the our adored 
pups, decently.

Ciò allo stato attuale è molto difficile in quanto la strutura dove dovrebbe 
sorgere la costruzione del canile è in rovinose condizioni,
e nonostante lo sforzo affrontato non riusciamo a raggiungere l’obiettivo.
That to the actual state is a lot of difficult in when structures it where it 
has to rise the construction of the kennel 
is in ruinous conditions, and in spite of the faced effort not succeed to reach 
the objectify.

La nostra Associazione ha lo scopo di combattere il randagismo, di diffondere 
il messaggio di amore e solidarietà verso gli animali, 
aiutare i rifugi che accolgono i cani e gatti abbandonati, ma deve essere anche 
in grado di poter affrontare situazioni a volte 
disperate in cui spesso ci troviamo per poter fornire un pronto intervento che 
può nella maggior parte dei casi salvare 
la vita dei nostri amici,purtroppo senza una struttura che possa tecnicamente 
sopperire a tutto ciò 
il nostro sforzo a volte risulta vano.
Our association has the purpose to fight the straying, to diffuse the love 
message and solidarity toward the animals, 
help the shelters that welcome they that they receive the dogs and cats 
abandons to you, but it has to be even in 
degree of can face situations to desperate times when often find to can furnish 
a ready intervention that 
it may in the most of the cases save the life of the our friends, unfortunately 
without a structure that is able 
technically provide to all that our effort to times results vain.

Il nostro progetto è molto difficile da realizzare in quanto non privo di 
ostacoli sia burocratici che puramente economici 
ed è per questo che chiediamo il Vostro aiuto siamo pronti ad affrontare 
qualsiasi difficoltà pur di vedere realizzato 
il sogno per cui ognuno di noi ha lavorato e continua a lavorare: regalare una 
vita migliore senza sofferenze senza crudeltà 
a chi non chiede mai niente ma da tanto in cambio, aiutaci ad aiutarli e a 
diffondere i valori dell’amore, del rispetto e 
della comprensione nei loro riguardi.
Our project is a lot of difficult to realize in when not destitute of hinder it 
is bureaucratic that purely economic and 
it is for this that ask your help is ready to face any difficulty too to see 
carried out the dream 
for which all of us has worked and continues to work: give a better life 
without sufferings without cruelty to anyone 
doesn't never ask anything but from much in change, help to help them and to 
diffuse the values of he is consumed by love, 
of the respect and of the comprehension in the they concern.

Crediamo che anche un piccolo aiuto da parte Vostra possa renderVi felici 
sapendo che avete donato una nuova speranza.
Believe that even a little help from departs yours is able make you happy 
knowing that you have given a new hope.

Visita ail nostro sito all’indirizzo 
http://digilander.libero.it/felixproject/
Visit our site to the address
http://digilander.libero.it/felixproject/

oppure fai un 'offerta
or make a shipment donation

Operazione"Felix" - Casella Postale 17104 RM GROTTAROSSA - ITALY
oppure Conto Corrente nr  :
IBAN :IT51 P030 1503 2000  0074 346
Casuale : "Operazione Felix"

Operation "Felix" - Post office box 17104 RM GROTTAROSSA - ITALY
or Checking Account Bank  nr :
IBAN :IT51 P030 1503 2000  0074 346
BIC bank receiving(swift): POBSIT22
BIC bank beneficiary: FEBIITM1
Accidental of Deposit : "Operation Felix" 



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Re: Bug#304521: ITP: wanna-build -- Database management for package (re-)compilation/status control

[Jesus Climent]

On Fri, Apr 15, 2005 at 01:24:56PM +0200, Jesus Climent wrote:
> 
> How/where can I commit to a common repo?

I guess I will have to rephrase my question:

Where is the repo where the members of the alioth project have been commiting?
At least, I could checkout the sources and send them patches, so that they
will not be lost in oblivion.

Thanks

-- 
Jesus Climent  info:www.pumuki.org
Unix SysAdm|Linux User #66350|Debian Developer|2.6.10|Helsinki Finland
GPG: 1024D/86946D69 BB64 2339 1CAA 7064 E429  7E18 66FC 1D7F 8694 6D69

There are only two possible explanations: either no one told me,...
or no one knows.
--Neo (Matrix Reloaded)


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Recurring problems since upgrade of openldap2 (2.1 -> 2.2)

[Michael Tautschnig]

Hi list!

I don't know which package I should file this bug against, but since the upgrade
of the openldap2-packages I'm seeing these errors quite frequently:

chown:
/home/roland/debian/openldap/build/2.1.30/openldap2-2.1.30/libraries/libldap/cyrus.c:468:
ldap_int_sasl_open: Assertion `lc->lconn_sasl_ctx == ((void *)0)' failed.

This happens not only with chown, but just as well with ls, tar, etc. The
relevant installed packages are:

ii  libldap-2.2-7  2.2.23-1   OpenLDAP libraries
ii  libldap2   2.1.30-3   OpenLDAP libraries
ii  libldap2-dev   2.1.30-3   OpenLDAP development libraries

Furthermore, processes such as postfix or autofs exit with signal 6 (SIGABRT) -
which is very very bad...

Thanks in advance,
Michael


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Re: More DDTP problems

[Martin Zobel-Helas]

Hi Otavio,

On Tuesday, 19 Apr 2005, you wrote:
>
> I think is best move all there, convert to subversion, and then we

oh no. It is CVS now, and we should'nt move it to something different
for now. Another one might like arch more, even an otherone might like
to use even another version control system. I prefer to use the method
Jeroen suggested.

> start to look file by file. To "Sign" a file, we can commit
> another fine and then we write a small script to check against it.

I set mail-follow-up to -i18n so lets discuss there further.

Greetings
Martin


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Bug#305420: ITP: darcs-buildpackage -- Suite to help with Debian packages in Darcs archives

[John Goerzen]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: John Goerzen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: darcs-buildpackage
  Version : 0.5.0
  Upstream Author : John Goerzen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : None yet
* License : GPL
  Description : Suite to help with Debian packages in Darcs archives

 This package helps automate and ease the task of maintaining Debian
 packages by helping you, the Debian developer, take advantage of
 the unique features in Darcs.  The programs included are:
 .
 dbp-importdsc: Import an upstream version and a Debian version from
 a Debian source package, automatically detecting package and version
 information from the .dsc.
 .
 dbp-importorig: Import an upstream tar.gz or directory.
 .
 dbp-markdeb: Mark a working copy for future reference.
 .
 darcs-buildpackage: Builds a Debian package based on information in
 the repository, checking out Debian and upstream versions as
 necessary.
 .
 Also, the package includes a comprehensive 24-page manual in
 PostScript and
 HTML versions.

Debian developers may be interested to know that darcs-buildpackage is
written in Haskell.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: 3.1
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable')
Architecture: i386 (i686)
Kernel: Linux 2.6.9
Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=C (charmap=ANSI_X3.4-1968)


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Re: What do you win by moving things to non-free?

[Torsten Landschoff]

On Mon, Apr 18, 2005 at 10:08:50AM -0300, Margarita Manterola wrote:
 
> How about having a new section, "open-source", or something, for the
> things that fall in the category described above?  (i.e. software that
> is _almost_ free, but has some small limitation over some freedom)

Let's call it "free as in free-beer" :)

Greetings

Torsten


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Bug#305421: ITP: libtemplate-plugin-yaml-perl -- simple Template Toolkit Plugin Interface to the YAML module

[Stephen Quinney]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Stephen Quinney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: libtemplate-plugin-yaml-perl
  Version : 1.22
  Upstream Author : Richard Clamp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : 
http://www.cpan.org/authors/id/R/RC/RCLAMP/Template-Plugin-YAML-1.22.tar.gz
* License : GPL (>= 1) or Perl Artistic
  Description : simple Template Toolkit Plugin Interface to the YAML module

 Provides the ability to load YAML strings and files into data
 structures and also dump data structures to files and strings from
 within the Perl Template Toolkit.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: 3.1
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable')
Architecture: i386 (i686)
Kernel: Linux 2.6.11
Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=C (charmap=ANSI_X3.4-1968)


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Re: Recurring problems since upgrade of openldap2 (2.1 -> 2.2)

[Torsten Landschoff]

Hi Michael, 

On Wed, Apr 20, 2005 at 12:09:15AM +0200, Michael Tautschnig wrote:
> I don't know which package I should file this bug against, but since the 
> upgrade
> of the openldap2-packages I'm seeing these errors quite frequently:
> 
> chown:
> /home/roland/debian/openldap/build/2.1.30/openldap2-2.1.30/libraries/libldap/cyrus.c:468:
> ldap_int_sasl_open: Assertion `lc->lconn_sasl_ctx == ((void *)0)' failed.

This looks quite likely like the problem is in libldap2. In fact a bug
report about this issue is already filed. I am still not sure what the
bug is all about. Seems like libldap tries to open a sasl connection
twice for some reason and want's to make sure that this is only done
once. 

Not to mention that you probably don't need SASL. Could not reproduce
this yet and it seems that it normally occurs with ldaps or failover
configurations.

Greetings

Torsten


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Re: What do you win by moving things to non-free?

[Glenn Maynard]

On Mon, Apr 18, 2005 at 10:08:50AM -0300, Margarita Manterola wrote:
> How about having a new section, "open-source", or something, for the
> things that fall in the category described above?  (i.e. software that
> is _almost_ free, but has some small limitation over some freedom)

Debian is hard pressed to consistently distinguish "free" from "not free";
it doesn't seem like a practical use of time to have a "sort of free"
category in between.

That said, there have been discussions about ways to break down non-free
further, without necessarily creating new sections, eg.

  http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2005/04/msg00066.html

to allow, for example, CD vendors to more easily tell which parts of
non-free they can safely distribute without satisfying extra conditions.

> I know that having a new section would be a bit cumbersome, but I do
> feel that the mixture of different "freeness" in non-free is a bit
> unfair for those pieces of software that just fail a small point.

I don't believe "forbidden to be modified in any way" to be a "small point".

-- 
Glenn Maynard


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Re: Recurring problems since upgrade of openldap2 (2.1 -> 2.2)

[Michael Tautschnig]

[...]
> 
> Not to mention that you probably don't need SASL. Could not reproduce
> this yet and it seems that it normally occurs with ldaps or failover
> configurations.
> 

In fact, I'm using ldaps and failover:


BASEdc=xxx
URI ldaps://x.y/ ldaps://z.y/

TLS_CACERT /etc/ssl/certs/cacert.pem

The only thing I'm pretty sure of, is that it happens since the upgrade of
slapd, I don't think that it's the client libraries that cause these problems.

HTH,
Michael


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Re: Bug#305287: ITP: slony1 -- Slony-I is a "master to multiple slaves" replication system with cascading and failover.

[Tim Goodaire]

I haven't been able to find an ITP for this. I've found an RFP for it
though (278810). Is this what you're referring to?

Also, my ITP bug (305287) has already been closed on me. Apparently I
was supposed to change the title of the RFP bug to ITP, but I've been
unable to find anything in the Debian maintainer's documentation that
would indicate that this is what you're supposed to do. Is this just
common practice or something? This is my first attempt at packaging
something for Debian.

Tim

On Tue, Apr 19, 2005 at 04:09:25AM +0200, Steinar H. Gunderson wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 18, 2005 at 09:21:01PM -0400, Tim Goodaire wrote:
> > Slony-I is a "master to multiple slaves" replication system with
> > cascading and failover.
> 
> Note that there is already an ITP on this; you might want to coordinate with
> whoever did that.
> 
> /* Steinar */
> -- 
> Homepage: http://www.sesse.net/
> 
> 
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Re: Bug#305287: ITP: slony1 -- Slony-I is a "master to multiple slaves" replication system with cascading and failover.

[Carlos C Soto]

Tim Goodaire wrote:

  
I haven't been able to find an ITP for this. I've found an RFP for it though (278810).
Is this what you're referring to?

>From the wnpp page
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=wnpp I get this:
#278810:
ITP: Slony-I -- A replication system for the PostgreSQL DBMS

Package: wnpp;
Severity: wishlist;
Reported by: Stephane
Bortzmeyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 172 days old.

#305287:
ITP: slony1 -- Slony-I is a "master to multiple slaves" replication
system with cascading and failover.

Package: wnpp;
Severity: wishlist;
Reported by: Tim
Goodaire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
Owned by: tim goodaire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
Done: Stephen Frost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
Will be archived: in 28 days.

  Also, my ITP bug (305287) has already been closed on me. Apparently I
was supposed to change the title of the RFP bug to ITP, but I've been
unable to find anything in the Debian maintainer's documentation that
would indicate that this is what you're supposed to do. Is this just
common practice or something? This is my first attempt at packaging
something for Debian.

  

Tim, check "The
debian-mentors FAQ" 
It say: "If it's not already listed, file an ITP bug report against
WNPP as
detailed by
section
5.1 of the developer's reference. If it's already listed as an
RFP, retitle the bug as an ITP (see the BTS manipulation
manual)."
This faq may help you.

Cheers.
-- Carlos C Soto :: eclipxe

Re: Bug#305287: ITP: slony1 -- Slony-I is a "master to multiple slaves" replication system with cascading and failover.

[Tim Goodaire]

Carlos,

On Tue, Apr 19, 2005 at 06:54:41PM -0500, Carlos C Soto wrote:
> Tim, check "The debian-mentors FAQ"
> 
> It say: "If it's not already listed, file an ITP bug report against WNPP
> as detailed by section 5.1
> 
> of the developer's reference. If it's already listed as an RFP, retitle
> the bug as an ITP (see the BTS manipulation
>  manual)."
> This faq may help you.

Thanks. It looks like I've found more stuff to read. 

Tim

> 
> Cheers.
> -- Carlos C Soto :: eclipxe


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SE Linux in Etch - was Release sarge now, or discuss etch issues?

[Russell Coker]

On Tuesday 15 March 2005 09:32, Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The fact that the release team now sees the light at the end of the
> tunnel for the release of sarge means that now is the time we need to
> begin planning for etch. Allowing unstable development to pick back up
> after a release with no clear plan for the next release has been shown
> time and time again to delay the next release by one to two *years*.
> The rest follows from that.

Currently we plan to have libselinux in base for Etch.  SE Linux code is in 
cron and logrotate which can be simply recompiled for full SE support.  Fcron 
already is compiled with SE Linux support.  The maintainer of sysvinit has 
agreed in concept to compile with SE support once libselinux is in base.

We can basically make SE Linux usable by most people with a small amount of 
work once the above changes are made.

I would like to see a general goal for Etch to have SE Linux as an option at 
install time.  The installer needs to ask two questions of the user:

Do you want SE Linux?  (yes/no/permissive mode - default no)
Which policy do you want?  (strict/targeted - default strict)

If SE Linux is to be installed then the selected policy package has to be 
installed, that package will have dependencies for all required utility 
packages.

If permissive mode is selected then a simple command will be run to change the 
configuration of SE Linux appropriately.

My general idea at this time is to have the kernel used for running the 
installer not supporting SE Linux to save disk space for the boot loader.  
There is no requirement that a SE Linux kernel be used to install SE Linux.

Note that we may not have SE Linux support for all file system types supported 
for the root file system (ReiserFS has only just got support).  Ideally the 
installer would know about this and not permit the combination of SE Linux 
and a file system that doesn't have proper XATTR support.  But if the 
installer doesn't know about it then someone who chooses SE Linux would just 
have to know which file system types that they can use.  Ext3 and XFS are the 
main file systems that people want to use and they work well with SE Linux.

-- 
http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/   My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages
http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/  Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark
http://www.coker.com.au/postal/Postal SMTP/POP benchmark
http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/  My home page


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Re: Bug#305287: ITP: slony1 -- Slony-I is a "master to multiple slaves" replication system with cascading and failover.

[Stephen Frost]

* Tim Goodaire ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> I haven't been able to find an ITP for this. I've found an RFP for it
> though (278810). Is this what you're referring to?

Yes.

> Also, my ITP bug (305287) has already been closed on me. Apparently I

Yes, I closed it since it was a duplicate WNPP bug.

> was supposed to change the title of the RFP bug to ITP, but I've been
> unable to find anything in the Debian maintainer's documentation that
> would indicate that this is what you're supposed to do. Is this just
> common practice or something? This is my first attempt at packaging
> something for Debian.

The developer's reference
(http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/ch-pkgs.en.html#s-newpackage)
would lead you to http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/ which outlines how
to use WNPP, specifically under "Removing entries" there's:

RFP  If you are going to package this, retitle the bug report to replace
.RFP. with .ITP., in order for other people to know the program is
already being packaged, and set yourself as the owner of the bug. Then
package the software, upload it and close this bug once the package has
been installed.

Of course, it'd be good to *read* the RFP bug before retitling it, etc,
which would have provided you with the information I wrote about in my
prior email- specifically that there's a number of other people working
on slony packaging already and there's specific and good reasons why it
hasn't already been uploaded to the archive.

I don't particularly care who ends up maintaining the package but it's
more than a little annoying to have someone not read the documentation,
prior bug reports, or apparently even look for prior bugs and then be
bitched out by what I'm guessing was your boss on IRC for pointing out
to you the existing bug report and why it hadn't been uploaded yet.

As an additional tidbit- it'd probably be best to wait till the 8.0 debs
are in Debian before putting the slony packages in to avoid what will
probably be a great deal of ugliness in the transistion from one
packaging methodology to another in the main Postgres packaging.  The
8.0 debs are already in experimental, they're mainly waiting for sarge
to be released before going into sid because of the libpq SONAME bump.

Thanks,

Stephen


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Re: What do you win by moving things to non-free?

[Hamish Moffatt]

On Tue, Apr 19, 2005 at 06:56:53PM -0400, Glenn Maynard wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 18, 2005 at 10:08:50AM -0300, Margarita Manterola wrote:
> > How about having a new section, "open-source", or something, for the
> > things that fall in the category described above?  (i.e. software that
> > is _almost_ free, but has some small limitation over some freedom)
> 
> Debian is hard pressed to consistently distinguish "free" from "not free";
> it doesn't seem like a practical use of time to have a "sort of free"
> category in between.
> 
> That said, there have been discussions about ways to break down non-free
> further, without necessarily creating new sections, eg.
> 
>   http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2005/04/msg00066.html
> 
> to allow, for example, CD vendors to more easily tell which parts of
> non-free they can safely distribute without satisfying extra conditions.

Also, James Troup indicated (at LCA2005 yesterday) that it WOULD be
necessary to separate non-free into auto-buildable and not if anything
is going to be auto-built. Given the increased importance of non-free 
post-sarge this seems like a good idea.

Hamish
-- 
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Re: Temporal Release Strategy

[Adrian Bunk]

On Fri, Apr 15, 2005 at 04:45:17PM -0400, Patrick Ouellette wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 14, 2005 at 11:59:52PM +0200, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> > 
> > On Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 10:12:31AM -0400, Patrick A. Ouellette wrote:
> > >...
> > > The progression I see is:
> > > 
> > > unstable -> testing -> candidate -> stable
> > > 
> > > The existing rules for promotion from unstable to testing continue to be
> > > used.
> > > 
> > > Promotion from testing to candidate requires meeting the same rules as
> > > promotion from unstable to testing with the following exceptions:
> > > packages must be in testing for at least 3 months, and have no release
> > > critical bugs.
> > >...
> > 
> > One big problem testing has are transitions. This includes library 
> > transitions, but also other transitions like e.g. an ocaml transition 
> > affecting several dozen packages currently waiting to enter testing.
> > 
> > Many transitions require a serious amount of manual coordination since 
> > all packages have to be ready to go into testing _at the same time_.
> > 
> > Please explain how you think any bigger transition can ever enter your 
> > "candidate" if you add to the testing criteria a "3 months" criteria all 
> > affected packages have to fulfill at the same time?
> > 
> 
> The system should always be considered a FIFO system.  There are only 2
> places packages can enter the system: unstable, and security-updates.
> The coordination of dependent packages will always require manual
> coordination.  There is no way around it (unless you completely automate
> the build process so it downloads the upstream tar ball and packages it
> for Debian - and never breaks).  The purpose of unstable is to allow
> those problems to be worked out.  Once the group of interdependent
> packages is ready (managed to live in unstable for 10 days without a
> release critical bug) then they will all meet the criteria set to be
> promoted to testing.  The same thing happens again.  Once the entire
> group satisfies the conditions, the entire group migrates to candidate.
> The point of having the promotion conditions is to make sure the system
> is not broken, and can handle library or interdependent package version
> changes.  The rules I referred to are found here:
> http://www.debian.org/devel/testing

The rules and goals of testing are clear.

The more interesting points are the problems of testing that several 
years of using it have shown.

> If package FOO has a RC bug, then everything that depends on FOO will be
> stuck AT WHATEVER POINT IT IS IN THE PROCESS until FOO is fixed.  If
> fixing FOO breaks BAR, then they all wait again until BAR is fixed.  Use
> of experimental to work through some of these issues would help.
> I'm not saying it won't take manual coordination to handle complex
> changes to the system.  I'm not saying it will make anyone's life
> easier.  What my proposal will do is provide the ability to decide when
> package $PACKAGE makes it into stable, we will call that an official
> release and give it a number.  Alternatively, you could declare every
> $INTERVAL Debian releases.  What is in stable should have been well
> tested, and supportable.  Stable no longer is a static concept, but a
> slowly evolving thing.  If you cannot wrap your mind around to accepting
> a stable that evolves, we could snapshot stable at release data and make
> a separate archive (really a Packages.gz and related files as long as
> the version of the package in the release exists in the package pool).

You completely miss my point:

There are several transitions every month, and a big transition can 
involve several hundred packets.

Your proposal requires, that _every single_ package that is part of a 
transition has to be both ready and in testing for over 3 months before 
it can enter your proposed "candidate".

If _one_ of the packages that is part of a transition is updated in 
testing during this time, the 3 months start again. For bigger 
transitions, it's therefore practically impossible that they will be 
able to enter your "candidate".

Please try to understand the limitations of testing before proposing 
something even stricter.

> Pat

cu
Adrian

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Re: All GPL'ed programs have to go to non-free

[Adrian Bunk]

On Fri, Apr 15, 2005 at 11:13:04PM -0400, Glenn Maynard wrote:
>...
> This makes it extremely clear that, as far as the Social Contract is
> concerned, everything in Debian is software, covered by the DFSG.  This
> is a discussion that's done and complete, settled by GR2004-003, and
> I'm not interested in rehashing those discussions yet again.
> 
> (It's disappointing that on one hand, we have people insisting that
> every decision should go through a complete GR to involve the whole
> Project and refuse to accept any amount of consensus otherwise; while
> on the other hand, the few issues--such as this one--that actually do
> go through a GR and are firmly decided *still* come under debate again
> and again.)
>...


I've heard three different stories describing this GR:
1. it contained only Editorial amendments and didn't change anything
2. the Debian developers decided in this GR that documentation has to
   fulfill the full DFSG guidelines
3. many Debian mistakenly agreed with it because they mistakenly
   beliefed after reading the title that it only contained editorial 
   and no actual changes


You claim that through this GR it was "firmly decided".

If this was true, please give a good explanation WTF a GR that causes 
big changes was titled "Editorial amendments to the social contract" 
instead of "Debian will treat everything as software".


> Glenn Maynard

cu
Adrian

-- 

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Re: What do you win by moving things to non-free?

[Adrian Bunk]

On Sat, Apr 16, 2005 at 04:29:42AM +0200, Bernd Eckenfels wrote:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> you wrote:
> > Is this wanted?
> 
> This may not be wanted, but what is your alternative?


If you really want to retain your "everything is software" point of 
view, think about the consequences and work on them _before_ starting 
the removals - and provide solutions for them that are available at the 
time of the removals.

Actions mentioned in this thread like autobuilding parts of non-free, 
providing an installer that includes parts of non-free [1] and providing 
a CD with the distributable part of non-free are prerequisites if your 
users are still a priority for you.


> Greetings
> Bernd

cu
Adrian

[1] that includes hardware drivers you are removing from the kernel 
sources

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Re: All GPL'ed programs have to go to non-free

[Adrian Bunk]

On Tue, Apr 19, 2005 at 11:52:19PM -0400, Glenn Maynard wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 20, 2005 at 05:06:16AM +0200, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> > I've heard three different stories describing this GR:
> > 1. it contained only Editorial amendments and didn't change anything
> > 2. the Debian developers decided in this GR that documentation has to
> >fulfill the full DFSG guidelines
> > 3. many Debian mistakenly agreed with it because they mistakenly
> >beliefed after reading the title that it only contained editorial 
> >and no actual changes
> 
> The SC, prior to GR2004-003, already required that documentation be
> DFSG-free.  I've never seen any strong argument otherwise, and
> GR2004-003 simply made it explicitly clear.  (GR2004-004 didn't make
> any sense at all, nor does it make any sense that Sarge can ship
> with non-free documentation, and at the time I found the posts of
> the RM on the topic to make no sense at all, but I was satisfied with
> the results of GR2004-003 and am able to bear the strangeness of
> GR2004-004 for now, since it'll expire on its own.)
>...


If it contained only editorial changes as you are saying, you've thereby 
proven that your statement the documentation licencing was "firmly 
decided" was wrong.


> Glenn Maynard

cu
Adrian

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Re: All GPL'ed programs have to go to non-free

[Glenn Maynard]

On Wed, Apr 20, 2005 at 05:06:16AM +0200, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> I've heard three different stories describing this GR:
> 1. it contained only Editorial amendments and didn't change anything
> 2. the Debian developers decided in this GR that documentation has to
>fulfill the full DFSG guidelines
> 3. many Debian mistakenly agreed with it because they mistakenly
>beliefed after reading the title that it only contained editorial 
>and no actual changes

The SC, prior to GR2004-003, already required that documentation be
DFSG-free.  I've never seen any strong argument otherwise, and
GR2004-003 simply made it explicitly clear.  (GR2004-004 didn't make
any sense at all, nor does it make any sense that Sarge can ship
with non-free documentation, and at the time I found the posts of
the RM on the topic to make no sense at all, but I was satisfied with
the results of GR2004-003 and am able to bear the strangeness of
GR2004-004 for now, since it'll expire on its own.)

(And if people really are voting for a GR after only reading the title,
I'd be even more disappointed, but I just don't believe that.)

In any event, all of this is irrelevant: if people really think that
non-free documentation should be allowed in Debian, propose a GR to
allow it.  Nothing short of that will make it so.  If people really
think they were "tricked", fine--fix it with another GR.  Unless and
until that happens, Debian's position is very clear.

-- 
Glenn Maynard


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Re: What do you win by moving things to non-free?

[Glenn Maynard]

On Wed, Apr 20, 2005 at 05:31:52AM +0200, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> If you really want to retain your "everything is software" point of 
> view, think about the consequences and work on them _before_ starting 
> the removals - and provide solutions for them that are available at the 
> time of the removals.

Huh?

Debian has been considering the consequences of this for several
years now, over the course of debate in *thousands* of list posts.
The issue and its consequences have been considered at massive
length.

And Debian has tried to work on reducing the impact, by trying
to convince the FSF to fix their license.  Not only have they
not done so, they've completely stonewalled, refusing to discuss
the issue at all.  Debian has done more than its part in trying
to fix this.  It didn't work.  It's time to remove the non-free
stuff (or will be soon).

> Actions mentioned in this thread like autobuilding parts of non-free, 
> providing an installer that includes parts of non-free [1] and providing 
> a CD with the distributable part of non-free are prerequisites if your 
> users are still a priority for you.

The magic words "users" and "priority" don't change one of the absolute
fundamentals of Free Software development: if you want it, implement it.
If *you* believe these things are important to users, then *you* implement
them--don't expect others to, and don't claim that non-free stuff should
remain in Debian because you're not able to do so.

Your argument here can just as easily be applied to anything non-free;
would you seriously claim that, if Qmail was in main and I was to file
a bug against it for being non-free, that it should remain in main until
I write a replacement "if users are still a priority"?  That's not how
it works.

-- 
Glenn Maynard


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Re: All GPL'ed programs have to go to non-free

[Adrian Bunk]

On Tue, Apr 19, 2005 at 11:52:19PM -0400, Glenn Maynard wrote:
>...
> (GR2004-004 didn't make
> any sense at all, nor does it make any sense that Sarge can ship
> with non-free documentation, and at the time I found the posts of
> the RM on the topic to make no sense at all, but I was satisfied with
> the results of GR2004-003 and am able to bear the strangeness of
> GR2004-004 for now, since it'll expire on its own.)
> 
> (And if people really are voting for a GR after only reading the title,
> I'd be even more disappointed, but I just don't believe that.)

It's funny that out of the five people seconding GR2004-003, the first
three did either second or even propose one of the first two suggestions
in GR2004-004.

If even the Debian developers seconding a GR are supporting changes to 
the result of this GR only one month later...

> In any event, all of this is irrelevant: if people really think that
> non-free documentation should be allowed in Debian, propose a GR to
> allow it.  Nothing short of that will make it so.  If people really
> think they were "tricked", fine--fix it with another GR.  Unless and
> until that happens, Debian's position is very clear.

In GR2004-004, Proposal D to revert GR2004-003 did get a 2.3:1 majority 
by the developers over the proposal to keep the changes of GR2004-003. 
That's a pretty clear statement.

The nice thing about 3:1 majorities is, that once you've tricked 
something as "Editorial amendments" into it, a 25% minority is enough to 
block reverting it...

> Glenn Maynard

cu
Adrian

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of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
   "Only a promise," Lao Er said.
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{Arch,OCaml,Python,Mono} Packages for Adoption

[John Goerzen]

Hello,

I'm going through the list of packages I'm maintainer for, and found
several that I no longer use.  Some I've tried to give away long ago,
but for whatever reason, never were picked up.  I've submitted orphaned
versions of all of these and filed appropriate wnpp bugs.

[Arch]
cscvs
tla-tools

[Ocaml]
regexp-pp
pycaml
perl4caml

[Mono]
nant
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Re: What do you win by moving things to non-free?

[Brian Nelson]

On Wed, Apr 20, 2005 at 12:03:07AM -0400, Glenn Maynard wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 20, 2005 at 05:31:52AM +0200, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> > If you really want to retain your "everything is software" point of 
> > view, think about the consequences and work on them _before_ starting 
> > the removals - and provide solutions for them that are available at the 
> > time of the removals.
[...]
> And Debian has tried to work on reducing the impact, by trying
> to convince the FSF to fix their license.  Not only have they
> not done so, they've completely stonewalled, refusing to discuss
> the issue at all.  

That's completely untrue, actually, though I think that stuff is still
confined to debian-private.

-- 
Society is never going to make any progress until we all learn to
pretend to like each other.


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Re: More DDTP problems

[Andreas Tille]

On Wed, 20 Apr 2005, Martin Zobel-Helas wrote:
I think is best move all there, convert to subversion, and then we
oh no. It is CVS now, and we should'nt move it to something different
for now. Another one might like arch more, even an otherone might like
to use even another version control system. I prefer to use the method
Jeroen suggested.
BTW, I'm absolutely not religious about source control systems and
I would see it like you.  But I can assure you that Ottavio did a transition
of another project which just left a single thing for me to remember:
Just use "svn" instead of "cvs".  If he offers to do the work and sees
some advantages you can just trust him.
Kind regards
   Andreas.
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Re: What do you win by moving things to non-free?

[Glenn Maynard]

On Tue, Apr 19, 2005 at 09:31:53PM -0700, Brian Nelson wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 20, 2005 at 12:03:07AM -0400, Glenn Maynard wrote:
> > On Wed, Apr 20, 2005 at 05:31:52AM +0200, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> > > If you really want to retain your "everything is software" point of 
> > > view, think about the consequences and work on them _before_ starting 
> > > the removals - and provide solutions for them that are available at the 
> > > time of the removals.
> [...]
> > And Debian has tried to work on reducing the impact, by trying
> > to convince the FSF to fix their license.  Not only have they
> > not done so, they've completely stonewalled, refusing to discuss
> > the issue at all.  
> 
> That's completely untrue, actually, though I think that stuff is still
> confined to debian-private.

I don't particularly care about super-secret discussions that I can't
even see.  Regardless, the FSF hasn't fixed their license, they've
never indicated in any place I can see that there's any chance at
all they'll remove invariant sections, and they've had a very long
time to do so.

-- 
Glenn Maynard


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Re: All GPL'ed programs have to go to non-free

[Glenn Maynard]

On Wed, Apr 20, 2005 at 06:08:50AM +0200, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> If it contained only editorial changes as you are saying, you've thereby 
> proven that your statement the documentation licencing was "firmly 
> decided" was wrong.

The SC ratified by SC2004-003 is abundantly clear: documentation must be
Free, according to the DFSG, and nothing short of another GR will change
that.  I believe this to be obvious and self-evident.  (The rest is
tangental, and this conversation has too many mini-threads, so I'm
leaving it at that.)

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Glenn Maynard


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Re: All GPL'ed programs have to go to non-free

[Glenn Maynard]

On Wed, Apr 20, 2005 at 06:24:51AM +0200, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> The nice thing about 3:1 majorities is, that once you've tricked 
> something as "Editorial amendments" into it, a 25% minority is enough to 
> block reverting it...

Nobody was "tricked".  I believe this claim so laughable, and at the
same time so insulting to Debian Developers ("we forgot to read what
we voted for!  I want a do-over!"), that I don't feel inclined to argue
it further.  Again, the SC is crystal clear; again, only a GR will
change that.

My belief, from experience of many discussions on these topics on these
lists, is that a huge majority of Debian Developers agree that documentation
must follow the DFSG, that a fringe minority who want GNU documentation in
Debian at any and all cost are making ludicrous claims, and that nobody is
falling for them.  I'm willing to continue arguments pertaining to the GFDL,
but these "we didn't *really* want to require documentation to be free"
arguments are going nowhere and are a waste of time, so I'm dropping them.

-- 
Glenn Maynard


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Re: All GPL'ed programs have to go to non-free

[John O'Hagan]

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005, Adrian Bunk wrote:

>Therefore, all GPL'd programs will have to go to non-free.
>
>Q.E.D.
>
>Is this a correct interpretation of what will happen after the release 
>of sarge or is there any mistake in my proof?

The problem you have identified is not new, or unique to free software 
development. 
There is a type of apparently unanswerable question of the form:
"Does the barber shave every man in town who doesn't shave himself?", or more 
generally, "Does the set of all sets which do not contain themselves, contain 
itself?". This is sometimes known as Russell's Paradox (Gödel's 
Incompleteness Theorem is its most general expression); in this case it is 
"Is the requirement of freedom a restriction?". 
Wittgenstein claimed to have solved the paradox in Tractatus Logico 
Philosophicus; I read the proof but didn't get it - maybe you will be able to 
- but I think he took it back later. 
In short, we must accept that any system can only be justified from outside 
itself. In order to move our arms, they must be attached at the shoulder; in 
order to walk, we must stand on one leg, lean forward, and trust that we 
won't fall over.
Meanwhile, keep on philosophizing and, especially, keep that beautiful Debian 
system growing.

John O'Hagan 
 

Re: Re: All GPL'ed programs have to go to non-free

[daniele becchi]

May be, are we talking about this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_paradox
Daniele
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