latest dist-upgrade wants to remove gnome, gnome-core

[Carl B. Constantine]

Subject says it all. Why does the latest dist-upgrade (using testing and
sarge) want to remove gnome, gnome-core, nautilus-media, gnome-media,
gstreamer, and a ton more apps (most of which I installed from
unstable)? This doesn't make sense to me.


-- 
 .''`.  Carl B. Constantine
: :' : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
`. `'GnuPG: 135F FC30 7A02 B0EB 61DB  34E3 3AF1 DC6C 9F7A 3FF8
  `-  Debian GNU/Linux -- The power of freedom


pgpujeZmVndWG.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: [VAC] June 9 - August 30 [UPDATE]

[Jimmy Kaplowitz]

On Tue, Jul 01, 2003 at 01:09:22PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
> What you describe has already happened.  The "right" to pollute the air
> that people breathe is already bought and sold like a commodity in the
> U.S.
> 
> http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/stories/2003/04/21/story8.html

We actually discussed this (pollution permits in general, not the
article to which you refer) in the introductory economics class I'm
taking now. Basically, that allows the government to cause a reduction
in pollution relative to pre-permit levels at the least economic cost
possible, using free-market principles to allocate the permits
efficiently. In other words, those people who can reduce pollution
cheaply will sell the permits to those who have a harder time reducing
pollution, using the profits to offset the cost to their business of
reducing pollution. If the total amount of pollution allowed by all the
permits is less than the pollution before, this will be an environmental
gain at minimal cost. If they built in some way for the allowed
quantities to be adjusted (e.g., variable-value or finite-duration
permits), they can do further reductions using the same
free-market-based system.

I think it's pretty clever, actually, and it's a good thing for the
environment rather than a bad one. You're not going to get rid of all
pollution, because that would shut down too much business/industry, and
this solution allows for reduction to desired levels in the most
economically efficient manner possible. You and I often have the same
knee-jerk reaction to things, and the first time I heard about these (a
few years ago) I had the same negative reaction you did. Now that I have
learned about it, my reaction in this case has changed.

- Jimmy Kaplowitz
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


pgpZxGbbLhGrN.pgp
Description: PGP signature

[OT] Pollution permits (was: Re: [VAC] June 9 - August 30 [UPDATE])

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Mon, Jul 07, 2003 at 01:47:41AM -0400, Jimmy Kaplowitz wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 01, 2003 at 01:09:22PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
> > What you describe has already happened.  The "right" to pollute the air
> > that people breathe is already bought and sold like a commodity in the
> > U.S.
> > 
> > http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/stories/2003/04/21/story8.html
> 
> We actually discussed this (pollution permits in general, not the
> article to which you refer) in the introductory economics class I'm
> taking now. Basically, that allows the government to cause a reduction
> in pollution relative to pre-permit levels at the least economic cost
> possible, using free-market principles to allocate the permits
> efficiently. In other words, those people who can reduce pollution
> cheaply will sell the permits to those who have a harder time reducing
> pollution, using the profits to offset the cost to their business of
> reducing pollution. If the total amount of pollution allowed by all the
> permits is less than the pollution before, this will be an environmental
> gain at minimal cost. If they built in some way for the allowed
> quantities to be adjusted (e.g., variable-value or finite-duration
> permits), they can do further reductions using the same
> free-market-based system.

This is not just in the U.S.; a policy such as this one was defined in
the Kyoto protocol, which defines a maximum allowed pollution level per
country, the right for countries to sell and buy permits just as
companies inside one country can, and other things (I'm not too involved
in that).

A lot of countries have signed this protocol, except for the U.S., with
the argument that the permitted quota's were too low, which would be
'bad for business', and 'not the american way'. As a result,
organizations such as Greenpeace are now not really friendly towards
President Bush anymore... I've got a Greenpeace poster here somewhere
that says 'Wanted: President Bush -- for environmental crimes'

Anyway, this is way off-topic here. Please send replies, if any, to me
personally, don't send them to the list. Thanks.

-- 
Wouter Verhelst
Debian GNU/Linux -- http://www.debian.org
Nederlandstalige Linux-documentatie -- http://nl.linux.org
"An expert can usually spot the difference between a fake charge and a
full one, but there are plenty of dead experts." 
  -- National Geographic Channel, in a documentary about large African beasts.

Re: postrm::downgrade?

[Niall Young]

> > On Wed, Jul 02, 2003 at 03:18:36PM +0800, Niall Young wrote:
> >
> > I'm using a custom package pool for deploying software, but we need to
> > cleanly rollback if an upgrade doesn't go as expected.
>
> In easy cases it is possible to first test a package with some testing
> machine and only put in in the used archive when it suites your needs.

Agreed, I meant in *addition* to pre-deployment testing - say if testing
didn't pick up all bugs and you discover fatal problems post deployment.

> > How about a postrm::downgrade hook to reverse any changes made in the
> > new version's preinst::upgrade so that when the old version's
> > preinst::upgrade
> > is applied you're not left with a potential mix of configuration?
> > seamlessly - i.e. reverse all changes made in the upgrade.  Is there
> > another way?
>
> You'd need more than that. Apt would need to be changed to handle
> undoing of package splitting (Conflicts/Replaces), and is not always
> possible anyway, new packages, might use new file-formats which can be
> converted from the old-version but not back again.

Yeah - it's a minefield of nightmares I know.  Debian handles upgrades
really well, but downgrades aren't as seamless.  A postrm::downgrade
hook is a pretty major change, it would take years to roll out - just
wondering if anyone has thought about the problem before and if/when
Debian could address this?  A remove and clean install seems to be the only
option which is unfortunate.  Something to think about at least...

Niall YoungChime Communications Pty Ltd
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Level 6, 263 Adelaide Terrace
Ph: (+61) 08 9213 1330 / 0408 192 797 Perth, Western Australia 6000

"donate to our Charity of the month which is the Eating Disorders
Association of WA Inc. ...  give a gold coin donation and I'll reward
you with nice sweet chocolate! M"
-- Jodie Evans, Feb 2003

Bug#200268: marked as done (general: .dpkg-dist and .dpkg-old files in cron.* and modutils dirs)

[Debian Bug Tracking System]

Your message dated Mon, 07 Jul 2003 09:10:45 +0200
with message-id <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
and subject line Bug#200268: general: .dpkg-dist and .dpkg-old files in cron.* 
and modutils dirs
has caused the attached Bug report to be marked as done.

This means that you claim that the problem has been dealt with.
If this is not the case it is now your responsibility to reopen the
Bug report if necessary, and/or fix the problem forthwith.

(NB: If you are a system administrator and have no idea what I am
talking about this indicates a serious mail system misconfiguration
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Debian bug tracking system administrator
(administrator, Debian Bugs database)

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Subject: general: .dpkg-dist and .dpkg-old files in cron.* and modutils dirs
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Package: general
Version: unavailable; reported 2003-07-06
Severity: normal

Hi!

Problem:

I have a laptop system, I recently upgraded to sarge (from woody)
and I noticed the following problem:
I moved some script from /etc/cron.daily to /etc/cron.weekly (to save
power)
But when dpkg asked me whether I want to install the new version of it's
config file I answered no. Now a new file package.dpkg-dist appears and
if i answered yes the old one will be renamed to package.dpkg-old
(This is fine for normal dirs but not for these which are parsed by
*simple* scripts)

This is not the expected behaviour because now I have scripts which I
already removed, and the same applies to /etc/modutils, if a new package
makes an upgrade here, there can be duplicated entries in
/etc/modules.conf

How to solve:

If you move a new config file to a new directory it will be harder find
those files.
So dpkg should explicitly tell the user that this directory must be
checked after the upgrade or you should tell that the original/new files will
be moved to this and this directory.


-- System Information:
Debian Release: testing/unstable
Architecture: i386
Kernel: Linux notebook 2.4.21-rc2-laptopmode2 #2 2003. máj. 23., péntek, 
12.20.04 CEST i586
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(1.174.2.15-2003-03-30-exp)

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (local.debian-devel) you wrote:
> I have a laptop system, I recently upgraded to sarge (from woody)
> and I noticed the following problem:
> I moved some script from /etc/cron.daily to /etc/cron.weekly (to save
> power)

> But when dpkg asked me whether I wa

Re: [VAC] June 9 - August 30 [UPDATE]

[David Weinehall]

On Mon, Jul 07, 2003 at 01:47:41AM -0400, Jimmy Kaplowitz wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 01, 2003 at 01:09:22PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
> > What you describe has already happened.  The "right" to pollute the air
> > that people breathe is already bought and sold like a commodity in the
> > U.S.
> > 
> > http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/stories/2003/04/21/story8.html
> 
> We actually discussed this (pollution permits in general, not the
> article to which you refer) in the introductory economics class I'm
> taking now. Basically, that allows the government to cause a reduction
> in pollution relative to pre-permit levels at the least economic cost
> possible, using free-market principles to allocate the permits
> efficiently. In other words, those people who can reduce pollution
> cheaply will sell the permits to those who have a harder time reducing
> pollution, using the profits to offset the cost to their business of
> reducing pollution. If the total amount of pollution allowed by all the
> permits is less than the pollution before, this will be an environmental
> gain at minimal cost. If they built in some way for the allowed
> quantities to be adjusted (e.g., variable-value or finite-duration
> permits), they can do further reductions using the same
> free-market-based system.
> 
> I think it's pretty clever, actually, and it's a good thing for the
> environment rather than a bad one. You're not going to get rid of all
> pollution, because that would shut down too much business/industry, and
> this solution allows for reduction to desired levels in the most
> economically efficient manner possible. You and I often have the same
> knee-jerk reaction to things, and the first time I heard about these (a
> few years ago) I had the same negative reaction you did. Now that I have
> learned about it, my reaction in this case has changed.

The problem with this thinking of course being, that this way, pollution
will stabilize at the levels set, because a lot of countries in the
developing world don't really have "use" for their quotas at the moment,
and will happily sell their quotas, which will lead to more pollution,
not less.

Consider:

P: pollution, Q: Quota

Country A:

P: 10
Q: 50

Country B:

P: 100
Q: 50


Trade allowed situation:

Country A sells 40 of their quota to country B, thus:

Country A:

P: 10

Country B:

P: 90

== P:100

while in the no trade allowed situation we get:

Country A:

P: 10

Country B:

P: 50

== P:60

Of course because mr Bush decided the Kyoto-treaty wasn't really worth
signing, we instead have the C alternative:

Country A..n:

P: x
Q: x

Country USA:

P: inf
Q: Couldn't care less...


And, while pollution is global, it is of little gain to, say, the
smog-infested Los Angeles, that Ulan Bator don't release any pollution
if that pollution instead continues to take place in L.A. because the
local authorities purchased their quotas (of course, L.A. might be a
bad example, because I know that they _are_ doing their best to reduce
pollution even though it's a tough struggle.)


Regards: David Weinehall
-- 
 /) David Weinehall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> /) Northern lights wander  (\
//  Maintainer of the v2.0 kernel   //  Dance across the winter sky //
\)  http://www.acc.umu.se/~tao/(/   Full colour fire   (/

Re: Juridical prosecution

[Andreas Tille]

On Sun, 6 Jul 2003, Branden Robinson wrote:

> > And the cluelessness Oscar this year goes too... Mr Sobek!
>
> But the competition is always so fierce, and the year isn't over yet...
But I wonder if some clever person might just fake cluelessness to grab the
price. How to distinguish those people?

Kind regards

 Andreas.

Re: Close old RFP/ITPs?

[Andreas Barth]

* Petter Reinholdtsen ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030707 01:05]:
> I have several packages which I am interested in getting packaged, but
> I am neither the requester nor a reader of debian-wnpp.  Your
> assertion is thus wrong in at least one case.  I believe it would be a
> bad idea to close RFPs just because no one responds when you ask for
> it.  I use a script to keep track of the progress of the packages I am
> missing, and it will not detect new comments in the BTS entry.

Be assured, I took the answers here serious, and I will look into each
RFP whether it is still usefull before doing the next step (that is
sending mail asking for other opinions).


Cheers,
Andi
-- 
   http://home.arcor.de/andreas-barth/
   PGP 1024/89FB5CE5  DC F1 85 6D A6 45 9C 0F  3B BE F1 D0 C5 D1 D9 0C

Re: Juridical prosecution

[Thomas Hood]

On Mon, 2003-07-07 at 09:48, Andreas Tille wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Jul 2003, Branden Robinson wrote:
> > >   And the cluelessness Oscar this year goes too... Mr Sobek
> > But the competition is always so fierce, and the year isn't over yet...
> But I wonder if some clever person might just fake cluelessness to grab the
> price. How to distinguish those people?

If it is a cluelessness _Oscar_, then presumably it is an award
for faking it; no?

Beware, this might be my own attempt to win.

--
Thomas Hood

Re: Package Moscow ML and HOL

[Peter Makholm]

ZHAO Wei <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I intend to package Moscow ML and later HOL theorem prover for Debian.
> This is not a fromal ITP because I'm not eager to prevent others from
> doing the same. :) I won't compete with you too.

There have been many attempts to package Moscow ML. I think the latest
attempt was made by JP Secher and he made some packages but never
uploaded them due to the licensing issues.

JP Sechers's ITP: 

Som of the discussion from Debian Legal the last time it was brought
up (I think) (includes pointers to older discussions):


-- 
 Peter Makholm |According to the hacker ethic, the meaning of life
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |is not Friday, but it is not Sunday either
 http://hacking.dk |  -- Peeka Himanen

Re: Package Moscow ML and HOL

[ZHAO Wei]

On Mon, 2003-07-07 at 18:09, Peter Makholm wrote:
> There have been many attempts to package Moscow ML. I think the latest
> attempt was made by JP Secher and he made some packages but never
> uploaded them due to the licensing issues.
> 
> JP Sechers's ITP: 
> 
> Som of the discussion from Debian Legal the last time it was brought
> up (I think) (includes pointers to older discussions):
> 

Thanks for the pointers and for the discussions by other posts. I'll
think what to do later.

-- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ZhaoWay
http://www.advogato.org/person/zhaoway/
Linux & Free Software Consultant, Nanjing, China

Bug#200332: O: netpbm -- Graphics conversion tools

[Steve McIntyre]

Package: wnpp
Severity: normal

[ cc: to debian-devel; maybe we need some discussion about this... ]

I've had enough of netpbm - it's a big package that takes far too much
effort for me to keep up with it. Upstream source is a mix of non-free
and free software, and even the free software has such a wide range of
licenses that the package needs its licenses auditing with every new
release. In addition to this mess, the latest major revision (version
10) does not even contain the man pages:

"Netpbm's maintainer believes man pages are obsolete and too limiting."

The random mix of binaries in netpbm have no consistent interface and
no consistency in their code, so I would fully expect it to have lots
of dangerous bugs, including (but not limited to) temporary file races
and buffer overflows.

I realise that I may have just put off anybody who might have taken
netpbm, but I wouldn't want to see people pick it up expecting an easy
job. We might even be better off dropping the whole package
completely, but for the fact that it has quite a lot of dependents.

-- 
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"It's actually quite entertaining to watch ag129 prop his foot up on
 the desk so he can get a better aim."  [ seen in ucam.chat ]


pgpxxEWYhnghx.pgp
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ITP: spip

[Gaetan Ryckeboer]

 SPIP is an open-source, free publication system on the Internet, mainly
 targetted at individuals, informal groups and non-profit
 organizations. SPIP allows contributive writing and managing of websites 
 having a magazine-like structure (i.e. articles and short stories 
 contained in nested sections), while not needing any HTML skills 
 (except for defining the layout templates).
 
 It is distributed under the GPL.

-- 
Bûcheron célibataire recherche jeune fille aimant contrepétries pour
faire un feu de poutre avec elle.

Gaétan RYCKEBOER  Société Virtual-Net
[Tous textes et propos tenus dans ce couriel sont sous license DMDZZ]


pgpVeOcPZm4w2.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Bug#200341: ITP: spip -- User Friendly but powerful Content Managment System build in php

[Gaetan RYCKEBOER]

Package: wnpp
Version: unavailable; reported 2003-07-07
Severity: wishlist

* Package name: spip
  Version : 1.6.0
  Upstream Author : Gaétan RYCKEBOER <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://www.spip.org/
* License : GPL
  Description : User Friendly but powerful Content Managment System build 
in php

 SPIP is an open-source, free publication system on the Internet, mainly
 targetted at individuals, informal groups and non-profit organizations.
 SPIP allows contributive writing and managing of websites having a
 magazine-like structure (i.e. articles and short stories contained in nested
 sections), while not needing any HTML skills (except for defining the layout
 templates).
 .
 There are two kind of registered users : writers (who can submit
 articles and short stories, and comment pending submissions) and 
 administrators (who validate submissions, manage the site structure 
 and configuration...). Every task, including installation,
 is done through a Web-based, user-friendly interface ; only the writing
 of templates needs some technical learning. Writers can use convenient
 typographic and presentation shortcuts in their texts so as to make
 them ready to publish without any particular computer skills. The public 
 part of the site as well as the back-office include a forum system to add
 comments to articles and short stories. A two-level cache system in the 
 public site keeps the amount of resources used on the server very low. 
 A lightweight fulltext indexation and search engine is also integrated, 
 which incurs no noticeable slowdown when enabled.
 .
 Now for the annoying point : SPIP is in French. This doesn't prevent you 
 from building sites in other languages, as your public site is entirely 
 defined in the templates, but you still have to understand the documentation
 and the back-office interface

-- System Information:
Debian Release: testing/unstable
Architecture: i386
Kernel: Linux asr-sarge 2.4.20ctx-16 #1 Tue Feb 25 13:58:02 CET 2003 i686
Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=C

Re: postrm::downgrade?

[Steve Langasek]

On Mon, Jul 07, 2003 at 02:07:34PM +0800, Niall Young wrote:

> > > How about a postrm::downgrade hook to reverse any changes made in the
> > > new version's preinst::upgrade so that when the old version's
> > > preinst::upgrade
> > > is applied you're not left with a potential mix of configuration?
> > > seamlessly - i.e. reverse all changes made in the upgrade.  Is there
> > > another way?

> > You'd need more than that. Apt would need to be changed to handle
> > undoing of package splitting (Conflicts/Replaces), and is not always
> > possible anyway, new packages, might use new file-formats which can be
> > converted from the old-version but not back again.

> Yeah - it's a minefield of nightmares I know.  Debian handles upgrades
> really well, but downgrades aren't as seamless.  A postrm::downgrade
> hook is a pretty major change, it would take years to roll out - just
> wondering if anyone has thought about the problem before and if/when
> Debian could address this?

Never.  This is not an effective use of developer time -- there are
enough bugs with *upgrading* packages yet that we don't need to be
worried about supporting downgrades.

If you want individual maintainer scripts to support downgrading, dpkg
already gives you everything you need:  just compare the value of $2
with the current version to detect whether it's an upgrade or downgrade,
and handle appropriately.  But I'm not likely to accept patches for this
on any of my packages, as I don't believe this is useful enough to
justify the added complexity.

-- 
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer


pgpQ3pCcj3LdH.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: eicar.com installer in Debian, and pre-upload interface to ftpmaster

[Marc Haber]

On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 22:07:51 +0200, Thomas Viehmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>How about phoning them? [0]

I didn't feel like it is _that_ necessary.

Greetings
Marc

-- 
-- !! No courtesy copies, please !! -
Marc Haber  |   " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Karlsruhe, Germany  | Beginning of Wisdom " | Fon: *49 721 966 32 15
Nordisch by Nature  | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fax: *49 721 966 31 29

Re: Bug#200332: O: netpbm -- Graphics conversion tools

[Andreas Barth]

* Steve McIntyre ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030707 16:20]:
> I realise that I may have just put off anybody who might have taken
> netpbm, but I wouldn't want to see people pick it up expecting an easy
> job. We might even be better off dropping the whole package
> completely, but for the fact that it has quite a lot of dependents.

As you said, we should make at least a silent transition. IMHO we
should split netpbm to a netpbm-legacy (to where all the programms are
transfered) and then substitut the programms on a step-by-step basis
with wrappers to usable[1] programms in netpbm-* (or already existing)
packages). [1] "usable" means: have usable licences and a manpage.

This would also mean that bugs to netbm are usually not fixed, and new
versions not integrated in debian. As speaking alone doesn't help I
have ITAed netpbm.

Cheers,
Andi
-- 
   http://home.arcor.de/andreas-barth/
   PGP 1024/89FB5CE5  DC F1 85 6D A6 45 9C 0F  3B BE F1 D0 C5 D1 D9 0C

Kernel question: initrd/cramfs

[Nenad Antonic]

> Since it is a moving target, kernel compilation is a difficult 
> subject that may confuse even the most admired developer: 
> [Debian Reference]

What is the status of initrd kernel building process (only on i386),
while using stock kernels (from kernel.org)? 

Kernel-source-2.4.21 has some configuration problems. 
(make xconfig does not work:
crypto/Config.in: 43: unknown command
make[1]: *** [kconfig.tk] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/k21ter/scripts')

Besides, it does not (yet) contain some of the features I need (e.g.
new ACPI).

I have tried several post 2.4.21 versions, and for 2.4.22-pre3, while
using debian kernel-package 8.041, testing cramfsprogs 1.1-4 and
initrdtools (both 0.1.47 and 0.1.48), I was not able to boot:
RAMDISK: cramfs filesystem found at block 0
RAMDISK: loading 1032 blocks [1 disk] into ram disk... done.
Freeing initrd memory: 1032k freed
cramfs: wrong magic
Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 03:01

I have tried to find an answer searching on the net, so I
double-checked my configuration for:
# CONFIG_DEVFS_FS is not set
CONFIG_CRAMFS=y
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_RAM=y
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_RAM_SIZE=4096
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_INITRD=y

From kernel-source-2.4.20 I built quite a number of initrd kernels,
following the Debian way. For that, when I got the latest version of the
tools, the things worked. However, I am completely stuck now.

Is there an easy way to fix building of initrd kernels?
Or is it better to start building different kernels?

Any suggestions?
I expect this might be of interest for a number of people.

--- Nenad.

Bug#200355: ITP: csound -- incredibly powerful and versatile software synthesis program

[Hans Fugal]

Package: wnpp
Version: unavailable; reported 2003-07-07
Severity: wishlist


* Package name: csound
  Version : 4.23f04
  Upstream Author : John ffitch  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://sourceforge.net/projects/csound/
* License : LGPL
  Description : incredibly powerful and versatile software synthesis program

Csound is a sound and music synthesis system, providing facilities for
composition and performance over a wide range of platforms. It is not
restricted to any style of music, having been used for many years in at
least classical, pop, techno, ambient...

-- System Information:
Debian Release: testing/unstable
Architecture: i386
Kernel: Linux falcon 2.4.20-3-k6 #1 Sun Jun 8 00:39:53 EST 2003 i586
Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=C

Re: Kernel question: initrd/cramfs

[Matt Zimmerman]

On Mon, Jul 07, 2003 at 06:55:01PM +0200, Nenad Antonic wrote:

>   Kernel-source-2.4.21 has some configuration problems. 
> (make xconfig does not work:
>   crypto/Config.in: 43: unknown command
>   make[1]: *** [kconfig.tk] Error 1
>   make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/k21ter/scripts')

That is fixed in 2.4.21-2, now in unstable.

>   Besides, it does not (yet) contain some of the features I need (e.g.
> new ACPI).

Neither does kernel.org source, and you can patch both of them easily.

>   I have tried several post 2.4.21 versions, and for 2.4.22-pre3, while
> using debian kernel-package 8.041, testing cramfsprogs 1.1-4 and
> initrdtools (both 0.1.47 and 0.1.48), I was not able to boot:
>   RAMDISK: cramfs filesystem found at block 0
>   RAMDISK: loading 1032 blocks [1 disk] into ram disk... done.
>   Freeing initrd memory: 1032k freed
>   cramfs: wrong magic
>   Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 03:01

Strange...it is recognized as a cramfs filesystem, but then fails to mount.
Are you able to mount the initrd using a loop device?

-- 
 - mdz

Re: Accepted xplanet 1.0.1-2.1 (i386 source all)

[Branden Robinson]

On Sat, Jul 05, 2003 at 07:02:20PM -0400, Christian Perrier wrote:
> Changes: 
>  xplanet (1.0.1-2.1) unstable; urgency=low
>  .
>* NMU
>* French debconf templates translation. Closes: #191734
>* Japanese debconf templates translation. Thanks,  Tomohiro KUBOTA.
>  Closes: #194651
>* quote-printable removed from german templates translation. Correct
>  ISO-8859-1 characters put in place. Closes: #183413.
>* Corrected typo in templates. Closes: #191845

Was this NMU done with maintainer approval?

If so, please note this fact in your changelog entries in the future.

If not, are these really the sorts of issues that demand an NMU?

(On the other hand, the maintainer hadn't done a release since April
25th, so the package was just beginning to get a little musty.)

-- 
G. Branden Robinson| I suspect Linus wrote that in a
Debian GNU/Linux   | complicated way only to be able to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | have that comment in there.
http://people.debian.org/~branden/ | -- Lars Wirzenius


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Re: Accepted atftp 0.6.2 (i386 source)

[Branden Robinson]

On Sun, Jul 06, 2003 at 01:47:07PM -0400, Remi Lefebvre wrote:
> Changes: 
>  atftp (0.6.2) unstable; urgency=low
>  .
>* Fixed local and remote buffer overflow (Closes: #196304)

In the future, please upload security fixes with urgency=high.

-- 
G. Branden Robinson| What influenced me to atheism was
Debian GNU/Linux   | reading the Bible cover to cover.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | Twice.
http://people.debian.org/~branden/ | -- J. Michael Straczynski


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RE: gcc on a biarch system

[marc . miller]

I've seen such an animal (that switches the personality and the architecture 
reported by uname) in some distributions; it's called linux32.  

-Original Message-
From: Arnd Bergmann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 2:15 PM
To: debian x86-64
Cc: debian-dpkg@lists.debian.org; debian-devel@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: gcc on a biarch system


On Saturday 05 July 2003 19:44, Bart Trojanowski wrote:
> On amd64, we currently have a biarch-gcc that builds 32bit binaries by
> default, and 64bit ones with a -m64 option.  Coding debian/rules for this
> is pretty trivial but still requires some ugly architecture specific
> hacks in each debian/rules.
> 
> I propose obtaining the gcc specific options from a dpkg-libinfo
> (introduced by Gerhard Tonn's lib64 patches) or dpkg-architecture.
> debian/rules can query for said options, and use them in order to build
> for a given host architecture.

No, that's exactly the wrong way around. dpkg-libinfo (at least the
current proposal) uses dpkg-architecture to find the target
architecture and dpkg-architecture in turn calls gcc to get that.
It makes sense this way, although dpkg-libinfo might also call gcc
directy.

There is a patch for gcc so that it calls uname(2) to find out if it 
should build 32 or 64 bit binaries. You can then use the personality
system call when you want to change to building 32 bit packages, e.g.
'do32bit fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage' (I don't know if there is
already a tool that changes the personality, but do32bit is probably
not the best name for such a tool).

Arnd <><


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Debian/amd64 at Ottawa Linux Symposium [July 24th 2003]

[Bart Trojanowski]

For those that will be attending OLS later this month...

http://www.linuxsymposium.org/2003/view_abstract.php?talk=192

I have scheduled a BoF session for Thursday July 24 at 20:00 to meet
people interested in the Debian port to AMD64.

Hope to see you there.

Regards,
Bart.

-- 
WebSig: http://www.jukie.net/~bart/sig/


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Re: Accepted atftp 0.6.2 (i386 source)

[Steve Langasek]

On Mon, Jul 07, 2003 at 12:48:49PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 06, 2003 at 01:47:07PM -0400, Remi Lefebvre wrote:
> > Changes: 
> >  atftp (0.6.2) unstable; urgency=low
> >  .
> >* Fixed local and remote buffer overflow (Closes: #196304)

> In the future, please upload security fixes with urgency=high.

I'm assuming this is only appropriate if the vulnerability affects
testing?  Since the main impact of setting the 'urgency' field is
affecting propagation time into testing, it doesn't seem appropriate to
give higher priority to a package which only suffered from a
vulnerability in the unstable version.

-- 
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer


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Re: gcc on a biarch system

[Bart Trojanowski]

* [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [030707 13:44]:
> I've seen such an animal (that switches the personality and the
> architecture reported by uname) in some distributions; it's called
> linux32.  

After Arnd's proposal, I wrote one for my own use, but now I am
curious...

Would there be a use for a generic personality interface under Debian?
Or should we have a 'linux32' to be compatible?

B.

-- 
WebSig: http://www.jukie.net/~bart/sig/


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RE: gcc on a biarch system

[marc . miller]

Since other ISVs are adopting the use of linux32, I recommend consistency here. 
 AFAIK, the basic functions of linux32 are (1) to change the architecture 
reported by uname, and (2) to adjust the available address space for that 
process to 3GB, such as you would find on most 32-bit Linux systems (many 
programs get confused when they have access to the full 4GB of 32-bit 
addressable space, and imposing a limit unconfused them).  Exact behavior can 
be modified by passing switches to the command.  

-Original Message-
From: Bart Trojanowski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 11:07 AM
To: Miller, Marc; debian-x86-64@lists.debian.org
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; debian-dpkg@lists.debian.org;
debian-devel@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: gcc on a biarch system


* [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [030707 13:44]:
> I've seen such an animal (that switches the personality and the
> architecture reported by uname) in some distributions; it's called
> linux32.  

After Arnd's proposal, I wrote one for my own use, but now I am
curious...

Would there be a use for a generic personality interface under Debian?
Or should we have a 'linux32' to be compatible?

B.

-- 
WebSig: http://www.jukie.net/~bart/sig/

Re: Kernel question: initrd/cramfs

[Nenad Antonic]

On # Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:38:35 -0400, Matt Zimmerman wrote:

>>  RAMDISK: cramfs filesystem found at block 0
>>  RAMDISK: loading 1032 blocks [1 disk] into ram disk... done.
>>  Freeing initrd memory: 1032k freed
>>  cramfs: wrong magic
>>  Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 03:01

> Strange...it is recognized as a cramfs filesystem, but then fails to mount.
> Are you able to mount the initrd using a loop device?

Yes, I am. Here is what it contains:
  124 Jul  7 20:09 bin
  104 Jul  7 20:09 dev
0 Jul  7 20:08 devfs
   24 Jul  7 20:09 etc
   72 Jul  7 20:08 lib
  566 Jul  7 20:08 linuxrc
   48 Mar 13  2002 linuxrc.conf
  137 Mar 13  2002 loadmodules
0 Mar 13  2002 mnt
0 Nov 22  2002 proc
   80 Nov 22  2002 sbin
0 Mar 13  2002 script
0 Mar 13  2002 scripts
0 Mar 13  2002 tmp
   16 Nov 22  2002 usr
0 Feb  2  2002 var

I must confess that I cannot see whether something is wrong here.
[I left the image at:
http://simbol.math.hr/~nenad/test/initrd.img-2.4.22-pre3c0 
if somebody cares to look at it.]


> > Besides, it does not (yet) contain some of the features I need (e.g.
>> new ACPI).

> Neither does kernel.org source, and you can patch both of them easily.

Could I just use acpi-20030619 patch from ACPI project page, and apply
it to kernel-source-2.4.21-2? It was not working in 2.4.20.

--- Nenad.

Re: Resolvconf -- a package to manage /etc/resolv.conf

[Goswin Brederlow]

Thomas Hood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Sun, 2003-07-06 at 01:00, Goswin Brederlow wrote:
> > You should think of a mechanism for daemons to get notified about
> > changes in resolv.conf.
> 
> There is already such a mechanism.  See below.
> 
> > Like providing a function to register a script
> > and a list of arguments (like the PID of the program to
> > notify). Whenever the resolv.conf changes all currently registered
> > scripts would be called with their respective arguments.
> > 
> > The simplest form would be:
> > 
> > resolv.conf-register /etc/init.d/squid reload
> > 
> > That would make squid to reload its config each time a nameserver is
> > added or removed.
> 
> Currently, scripts in /etc/resolvconf/update.d/ get run when
> resolver information changes.  So, would it suffice to create
> /etc/resolvconf/update.d/squid containing the following?
> #!/bin/sh
> /etc/init.d/squid reload
> 
> --
> Thomas Hood

Great.

MfG
Goswin

Anyone to "adopt" LingoTeach - a language teaching programm?

[Andreas Barth]

Hi everyone,

LingoTeach is a language teaching programm, and a debian package is
available - but the original maintainer is not going to maintain it
any more because he changed off debian. A language teaching
application would be a rather cool thing to have, so I would like the
inclusion (but I have too many projects right now on my hands to
maintain it myself). The last changes are from April on sid, so it's
much newer than a lot of packages.

The official description is
| LingoTeach is a language teaching application, uses GTK2 and teaches
| English, German, Chinese and Spanish. There is sound, too. 

Well, does anyone stand up for this cool application?


Cheers,
Andi
-- 
   http://home.arcor.de/andreas-barth/
   PGP 1024/89FB5CE5  DC F1 85 6D A6 45 9C 0F  3B BE F1 D0 C5 D1 D9 0C

Re: gcc on a biarch system

[Bart Trojanowski]

* [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [030707 14:41]:
> Since other ISVs are adopting the use of linux32, I recommend
> consistency here.  AFAIK, the basic functions of linux32 are (1) to
> change the architecture reported by uname, and (2) to adjust the
> available address space for that process to 3GB, such as you would
> find on most 32-bit Linux systems (many programs get confused when
> they have access to the full 4GB of 32-bit addressable space, and
> imposing a limit unconfused them).  Exact behavior can be modified by
> passing switches to the command.  

If I understand what linux32 does the program is quite trivial.

$ uname -m
x86_64
$ ./linux32 uname -m
i686

I am not a Debian developer (yet), so maybe someone that is can package
it to speed up the process...

Regards,
Bart.

--- snip ---

#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 

int main (int argc, char *const argv[])
{
int rc;

if (argc<2) {
printf ("usage: linux32  \n");
exit (1);
}

rc = personality (PER_LINUX32);
if (rc == -1) {
perror ("personality (PER_LINUX32)");
exit (1);
}

argv++;
return execvp (argv[0], argv);

}


-- 
WebSig: http://www.jukie.net/~bart/sig/


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Re: gcc on a biarch system

[Arnd Bergmann]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Monday 07 July 2003 21:07, Bart Trojanowski wrote:

> If I understand what linux32 does the program is quite trivial.

Right. I now found the 'official site' for the tool at
ftp://ftp.x86-64.org/pub/linux-x86_64/tools/linux32/

It's almost the same as your version, but we using the same
code as the others might be nice anyway. As a bonus, you
can run it as 'linux64'.

Arnd <><
- --
/* Written 2002 by Andi Kleen */
#include 
#undef personality
#include 
#include 
#include 

int main(int ac, char **av) 
{ 
int pers = PER_LINUX32;
if (!av[1]) { 
fprintf(stderr, "usage: %s program args ...\n", av[0]); 
exit(1); 
} 
if (!strcmp(av[0],"linux64")) pers= PER_LINUX;
else if (!strcmp(av[0],"linux32")) pers = PER_LINUX32;

if (personality(pers)) {
fprintf(stderr, "Cannot set LINUX32 personality: %s\n",
strerror(errno));
exit(1);
} 
execvp(av[1],av+1);
fprintf(stderr, "Cannot execute %s: %s\n", av[1], strerror(errno)); 
exit(1); 
} 
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE/CchN5t5GS2LDRf4RArEwAKCY6CqjaJX5ZqeRhbMSM6PVum5JIACfb45R
2JbVnxHMpjwkz6PwhQUH+S0=
=MOi9
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: gcc on a biarch system

[Bart Trojanowski]

* Arnd Bergmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [030707 15:22]:
> On Monday 07 July 2003 21:07, Bart Trojanowski wrote:
> 
> > If I understand what linux32 does the program is quite trivial.
> 
> Right. I now found the 'official site' for the tool at
> ftp://ftp.x86-64.org/pub/linux-x86_64/tools/linux32/
> 
> It's almost the same as your version, but we using the same
> code as the others might be nice anyway. As a bonus, you
> can run it as 'linux64'.

Ah, cool.

-- 
WebSig: http://www.jukie.net/~bart/sig/


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Re: A success story with apt and rsync

[Michael Karcher]

On Sun, Jul 06, 2003 at 01:29:06AM +0200, Andrew Suffield wrote:
> It should put them in the package in the order they came from
> readdir(), which will depend on the filesystem. This is normally the
> order in which they were created,
As long as the file system uses an inefficient approach for directories like
the ext2/ext3 linked lists. If directories are hash tables (like on
reiserfs) even creating another file in the same directory may totally mess
up the order.

Michael Karcher

non-root syslogd?

[Mark Ferlatte]

Has anyone investigated what would be necessary to get a non-root syslogd
working under Debian?  It seems like this would be a good thing, but obviously
there have to be some tricky bits, else it would have happened already.  :)

It seems like the steps would be:

Add a user for syslog to run as.
chown /var/log to be syslog.adm
Modify logrotate configs to set ownership properly.
It looks like syslogd, syslog-ng, etc would have to be patched to setup
/dev/log and open UDP 514, then setuid to the syslog user.

Is this worth working on?  Has anybody already done this?

M


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Re: NEWS.Debian support is here

[Paul Hedderly]

On Fri, Jul 04, 2003 at 01:01:14AM -0400, Joey Hess wrote:
> Thanks to Matt Zimmerman and Joe Drew, apt-listchanges will now display
> NEWS.Debian entries for upgraded packages. They're displayed before the
> regular changelog entries, and Matt plans to later let it be configured
> to only display news, if the user wants (more useful for stable users).

All that's missing is an automatic debconf notice entry for each NEWS
item.

That wud be well c00l.

--
Paul

Re: A success story with apt and rsync

[Goswin Brederlow]

Michael Karcher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Sun, Jul 06, 2003 at 01:29:06AM +0200, Andrew Suffield wrote:
> > It should put them in the package in the order they came from
> > readdir(), which will depend on the filesystem. This is normally the
> > order in which they were created,
> As long as the file system uses an inefficient approach for directories like
> the ext2/ext3 linked lists. If directories are hash tables (like on
> reiserfs) even creating another file in the same directory may totally mess
> up the order.
> 
> Michael Karcher

ext2/ext3 has hashed dirs too if you configure it.

MfG
Goswin

Re: Kernel question: initrd/cramfs

[Matt Zimmerman]

On Mon, Jul 07, 2003 at 08:41:43PM +0200, Nenad Antonic wrote:

> On # Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:38:35 -0400, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> > Neither does kernel.org source, and you can patch both of them easily.
> 
>   Could I just use acpi-20030619 patch from ACPI project page, and apply
> it to kernel-source-2.4.21-2? It was not working in 2.4.20.

Probably.  If there are any rejects, you can fix them by hand.  If you do,
it might be nice to create a kernel-patch-acpi package which will always
match Debian kernel source.

-- 
 - mdz

Re: NEWS.Debian support is here

[Matt Zimmerman]

On Mon, Jul 07, 2003 at 11:30:27PM +0100, Paul Hedderly wrote:

> On Fri, Jul 04, 2003 at 01:01:14AM -0400, Joey Hess wrote:
> > Thanks to Matt Zimmerman and Joe Drew, apt-listchanges will now display
> > NEWS.Debian entries for upgraded packages. They're displayed before the
> > regular changelog entries, and Matt plans to later let it be configured
> > to only display news, if the user wants (more useful for stable users).
> 
> All that's missing is an automatic debconf notice entry for each NEWS
> item.
> 
> That wud be well c00l.

As I recall, part of the idea of NEWS.Debian was to prevent having this kind
of information end up as debconf notes.

-- 
 - mdz

Re: Accepted atftp 0.6.2 (i386 source)

[Matt Zimmerman]

On Mon, Jul 07, 2003 at 01:23:57PM -0500, Steve Langasek wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 07, 2003 at 12:48:49PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
> > In the future, please upload security fixes with urgency=high.
> 
> I'm assuming this is only appropriate if the vulnerability affects
> testing?  Since the main impact of setting the 'urgency' field is
> affecting propagation time into testing, it doesn't seem appropriate to
> give higher priority to a package which only suffered from a
> vulnerability in the unstable version.

The other effect is that the changelog entries are sorted to the top in
apt-listchanges.

(and no, if the vulnerability doesn't affect testing or stable, this isn't
particularly important)

-- 
 - mdz

聚设计精英，创完美形象

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