Re: W3C recommendations

[J.H.M. Dassen (Ray)]

On Sun, Apr 13, 2003 at 19:44:35 -0500, Thomas Bliesener wrote:
> Do you consider the recommendations of the W3 Consortium as binding or
> optional for the Debian project?

I'd say having our documentation conform to W3C standards and
recommendations is desirable, but not a binding requirement. If you think
they should be a binding requirement, feel free to go through the documented
process for updating Debian policy,

http://cvs.debian.org/debian-policy/policy-process.sgml?rev=HEAD&cvsroot=debian-policy&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup

(Personally, I'd vote against a proposal to make it mandatory. We have more
than enough release-critical issues at the moment - cleaning up
documentation to conform completely to W3C standards and recommendations is
probably one of those 80/20 things, taking a lot of development effort for
little user-visible gain)

> Shall I file a bug report against these packages (and probably others)?

I'd say go ahead. Please make sure the bug report contains detailed
information on what a package does wrong and how a maintainer can test
compliance when changing the package's workings.

Ray
-- 
ART  A friend of mine in Tulsa, Okla., when I was about eleven years old.
I'd be interested to hear from him. There are so many pseudos around taking
his name in vain.
- The Hipcrime Vocab by Chad C. Mulligan

Re: x86-64 tool chain works

[Matthias Klose]

Arnd Bergmann writes:
> with the packages I have uploaded to http://www.arndb.de/debian/.
[...]
> There is a lot that can be done before the hardware is available,
> so if there is enough interest, we should start a coordinated
> effort soon.

yes, please submit bug reports to glibc, binutils and gcc containing
your patches.

Re: [desktop] Patched kernels

[Tollef Fog Heen]

* David Nusinow 

| On Sun, Apr 13, 2003 at 11:11:27PM +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
| > * Colin Walters 
| > 
| > | Anthony Towns has mentioned a few times that he thinks sarge will use
| > | Linux 2.6, which comes with most of the goodies like preemption already
| > | included.  We'll probably just need a separate kernel-image-preempt
| > | package or something that debian desktop can have installed by default.
| > 
| > Nobody has even begun thinking about getting d-i to work with 2.5/2.6.
| > Until that is tested and works this won't fly at all.  (Yes, this is a
| > ?somebody, please step forward and test/fix d-i with 2.5/2.6?)
| 
| How much is broken with 2.5 right now?

No idea.  I don't think anybody has tried 2.5 + d-i at all.

-- 
Tollef Fog Heen,''`.
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are  : :' :
  `. `' 
`-  

Bug#188946: ITP: bacula -- Network backup system with multiple task specific daemons

[Patrick Cole]

Package: wnpp
Version: unavailable; reported 2003-04-14
Severity: wishlist


* Package name: bacula
  Version : 1.29
  Upstream Author : Kern Sibbald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://www.bacula.org/
* License : GPL
  Description : Network backup system with multiple task specific daemons

Bacula is a set of computer programs that permit you (or the system
administrator) to manage backup, recovery, and verification of computer
data across a network of computers of different kinds. In technical terms,
it is a network Client/Server based backup program. Bacula is relatively
easy to use and efficient, while offering many advanced storage management
features that make it easy to find and recover lost or damaged files.
Due to its modular design, Bacula is scalable from small single computer
systems to systems consisting of hundreds of computers located over a
large network.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: testing/unstable
Architecture: i386
Kernel: Linux lacutis 2.4.19-rc3-xfs #4 Thu Jul 25 18:11:33 EST 2002 i686
Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=C

Re: [desktop] Patched kernels

[Alastair McKinstry]

On Mon, 2003-04-14 at 00:39, David Nusinow wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 13, 2003 at 11:11:27PM +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> > * Colin Walters 
> > 
> > | Anthony Towns has mentioned a few times that he thinks sarge will use
> > | Linux 2.6, which comes with most of the goodies like preemption already
> > | included.  We'll probably just need a separate kernel-image-preempt
> > | package or something that debian desktop can have installed by default.
> > 
We may be a long way off having 2.6 ready for sarge. We would like to
have a preview copy of sarge by the end of the month. 2.6 may not be
ready _this_year_ .


> > Nobody has even begun thinking about getting d-i to work with 2.5/2.6.
> > Until that is tested and works this won't fly at all.  (Yes, this is a
> > ?somebody, please step forward and test/fix d-i with 2.5/2.6?)
> 
Not quite true. Nobody _officially_ has begun testing with 2.5;
unofficially at least I have. Nobody has put 2.5 kernel based images for
public testing.

Note that with IDE, etc badly broken in 2.5, at least until recently,
Its not worth doing so unless you're lucky in your hardware.


> How much is broken with 2.5 right now? Could someone who's familiar
> with the issues give an approximation as to how much work it would take
> to adapt d-i to 2.5?
> 
> In addition, why does d-i have to run 2.6 at all? Couldn't it run 2.4,
> and install a 2.6 kernel for normal use for those that want it?
> 
There are some advantages; eg in the kbd-chooser, the new input API
lists attached keyboards in /proc; I can ask / skip the keyboard
question based on this, or autodetect better (eg present a list of PS2
or USB keyboards, or both, or neither .. - ).
I've been testing 2.5 for this reason, as kbd-chooser maintainer.

>  - David
-- 
Alastair McKinstry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
GPG Key fingerprint = 9E64 E714 8E08 81F9 F3DC  1020 FA8E 3790 9051 38F4

He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from
oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that
will reach to himself.

- --Thomas Paine

Re: W3C recommendations

[Philip Brown]

On Mon, Apr 14, 2003 at 07:38:00AM +0200, J.H.M. Dassen (Ray) wrote:
> (Personally, I'd vote against a proposal to make it mandatory. We have more
> than enough release-critical issues at the moment - cleaning up
> documentation to conform completely to W3C standards and recommendations is
> probably one of those 80/20 things, taking a lot of development effort for
> little user-visible gain)

depends on WHICH "standards and recommendations".

If the standard is just "HTML 4.01 transitional", and the
test criteria is "must pass through validator.w3.org",
then it shouldnt be particularly onerous.

Re: [desktop] Patched kernels

[Sven Luther]

On Mon, Apr 14, 2003 at 07:55:36AM +0100, Alastair McKinstry wrote:
> 
> 
> On Mon, 2003-04-14 at 00:39, David Nusinow wrote:
> > On Sun, Apr 13, 2003 at 11:11:27PM +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> > > * Colin Walters 
> > > 
> > > | Anthony Towns has mentioned a few times that he thinks sarge will use
> > > | Linux 2.6, which comes with most of the goodies like preemption already
> > > | included.  We'll probably just need a separate kernel-image-preempt
> > > | package or something that debian desktop can have installed by default.
> > > 
> We may be a long way off having 2.6 ready for sarge. We would like to
> have a preview copy of sarge by the end of the month. 2.6 may not be

It will be a joke, most of the packages are still blocked in sid, and
even if we engaged in a mini-freeze for our ocaml packages, nobody cares
about them entering in testing, at least nor aj nor the ftp-master have
replied to my inquiries about it (be it in the negative) in bug report
#187155.

Friendly,

Sven Luther

Re: Why is only the latest unstable package considered for testing?

[Björn Stenberg]

Bob Proulx wrote:
> Just minor searching through the archive turned these up with relevent
> discussion. 

These posts, as your reply in debian-testing, concern packages that are not
Valid Candidates.

My question concerns perfectly working packages that are suitable for testing,
yet are never considered.

I did search the archives, but failed to find a post addressing this issue.

-- 
Björn

Re: Work-needing packages report for Apr 11, 2003

[Andreas Metzler]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Matijs van Zuijlen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 12, 2003 at 02:34:32PM +0100, Andrew Suffield wrote:
>> On Fri, Apr 11, 2003 at 10:57:34PM +0200, Lars Bahner wrote:
>> > pptp-linux
[...]
> Additionally, pptp-linux seems to be the only/preferred/recommended? way
> to use ADSL on Linux in the Netherlands (which is where I live). See
> also http://www.maniac.nl/adsl.html.

AFAIK most of the ADSL providers here in Austria use pptp, too.

> IANADD, but since the only outstanding bugs are wishlist items, I
> would be happy to take this package.

I probably couldn't really test this package without a counterpart,
but I can check the packaging nevertheless - feel free to contact me
if you need a sponsor.
 cu andreas
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE+mmWIHTOcZYuNdmMRAv0iAJ9HXWJ7tYyFpPgc+bVWBrK2fN+wZwCeJyHv
J0Sr3MvF8O3nj2K2dN3Df8U=
=lLeJ
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: Why is only the latest unstable package considered for testing?

[Sven Luther]

On Mon, Apr 14, 2003 at 09:43:28AM +0200, Björn Stenberg wrote:
> Bob Proulx wrote:
> > Just minor searching through the archive turned these up with relevent
> > discussion. 
> 
> These posts, as your reply in debian-testing, concern packages that are not
> Valid Candidates.
> 
> My question concerns perfectly working packages that are suitable for testing,
> yet are never considered.
> 
> I did search the archives, but failed to find a post addressing this issue.

The reason you are seing this, is that the update_excuse file
information is not enough to know why a package is not in testing, you
can find more information in the update_output.txt file or the testing
FAQ, but basically, for a package to be considered ready to enter
testing, it needs to be a valid candidate and its inclusion in testing
need not to break any other package in testing, which is why most valide
candidates are not yet in testing.

Friendly,

Sven Luther

Re: Database-specificisms considered harmful

[Gerfried Fuchs]

* Matthias Urlichs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2003-04-11 14:34]:
> Personally, I do not like all those -mysql, -pgsql, -whatever packages.
> 
> Whatever happened to the idea of using a common database access library
> like iODBC? It's reasonably small, Not A Burden if you happen to not
> require any database lookup features, and it doesn't bloat the archives
> with four versions of exim (-none, -mysql, -pgsql, and -kitchensink).

 Thats a really nice idea.  Are you going to send in patches for the
various programs to support that?

 I mean, yeah -- it is really a nice idea, but someone has to do the
work for it.  If a program supports it already I would expect the
maintainer of the package to do the reasonable thing and enable that
sort of binding.  If it on the other hand doesn't, are you willing to
work on that part to get the support in?

> Personally, I would consider adding an appropriate paragraph to Policy.
> Something along the lines of
> 
> * Programs which access SQL databases should do so through
> libgda2/unixodbc/???.

 Again, nice idea, but I don't think that it will help. You can't
dictate upstream what to work on, and I don't know if the usual
maintainers of such packages are skilled/motivated enough to produce
the needed changes themself.

 So long!
Alfie
-- 
mknod /dev/aha c sky earth
  -- me, 08/2000


pgpxFroRk1Dgh.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Maintainers with excessive old RC bugs

[Andreas Tille]

On Mon, 14 Apr 2003, Andrew Suffield wrote:

> If you don't understand why you are on this list, use the "maintainer
> address" query on http://bugs.debian.org/ and look for old RC bugs. If
> you still don't understand, mail me and I'll tell you.
You just should add the "maintainer address" to this list.
Reason: I would really like to help out Klaus Knopper which is no
official Debian maintainer, but I would have to do extra investigation
to find the page you are refering to.

Thanks for you effort to decrease RC-bugs

Andreas.

--
Mankind must put an end to war before war puts an end to mankind.
John F. Kennedy

Re: Why is only the latest unstable package considered for testing?

[Bob Proulx]

Bjorn Stenberg wrote:
> Bob Proulx wrote:
> > Just minor searching through the archive turned these up with relevent
> > discussion. 
> 
> These posts, as your reply in debian-testing, concern packages that are not
> Valid Candidates.

But they did concern how testing operates.  Insight into the design of
the pipeline of unstable, testing and stable.  There has been a lot of
discussion in general about how to improve testing to get to a release
faster.  Isn't that what you are trying to do here too?  Improve
testing so that we can generate high quality releases more quickly?

> My question concerns perfectly working packages that are suitable
> for testing, yet are never considered.

Okay, let me give it another try.

> I have been looking at the "excuses" page[0] and was struck by how
> very old some packages are in testing, yet only the very latest
> bleeding edge version from unstable appears to be considered for
> inclusion.

The version in unstable is not _supposed_ to be bleeding.  It
frequently is but it is not designed to be bleeding.  Packages there
are supposed to be staging for testing which is staging for release.
If a maintainer thinks it is bleeding then it should not even go in
unstable.  However since sometimes you can't tell if the package has a
problem until it meets the world and you have to start somewhere then
unstable is the best place to start.

> Am I misunderstanding something, or does this approach "punish"
> projects that adhere to the Open Source motto to release often?

Often is a good thing for research and development but bad for
integration and testing.  Therefore at least some amount of stability
must be had in order to ensure it has made it through minimal
testing.  

The 10 days to wait in unstable is very much less than "often" and
still provides much opportunity for rapid updates.  A project that
released monthly, for example, should have no trouble at all with the
10 day cooking period in unstable.  That would still be considered to
be updated often.  You are not "punished" unless your release cycle is
less than the waiting period.  And it is not really punishment.  Just
an impedance mismatch.

The reason there is a waiting period is to give the package some
exposure.  Other packages will build against it.  People will get a
chance to try it out.  How much time is enough to ensure adequate
testing?  If it is a very popular package then a couple of days is
enough.  But if it is obscure then perhaps even several months is
really not enough.  But surely some non-zero amount of exposure time
is always required.

If you are releasing really often, say the daily cvs snapshot build,
then those are probably not suitable for zillions of people to be
installing daily.  Small ripples in the upstream current can create
huge waves crashing against the far shore accompanied by inland
flooding.  That type of release is really more suitable for people who
have adopted the package as one that they care about and are willing
to find and fix bugs in.  I will claim right here and now that there
are different types of "releases" and while the daily build is a very
useful one it is a different type and for a different purpose than a
full distribution release.  And of course there is a whole range of
sizes in between.  You have to know your target audience and match
things appropriately.

> Hypothetical example:
> 
> Project X makes an effort to prepare a solid release, squashing all RC
> bugs and making sure each target builds flawlessly. They pack it up,
> label it "3.0" or whatever and release it. The package goes into
> unstable and, being a non-critical update, needs 10 days to become a
> "Valid Candidate"[1] for testing.
> 
> For a while, people have been working on a big patch to move project X
> from gnome to gnome2. This was submitted to the project but was
> delayed until after 3.0. Now that 3.0 is out the door and the users
> have a stable version to work with, the gnome2 patch goes in and a new
> version, 3.1, is released only a few days later. This version is not a
> valid testing candidate, since gnome2 is not yet included in testing,
> but it's a welcome update for those running gnome2/unstable.
> 
> Now the catch: Since the testing scripts only consider the latest
> unstable version, the testing-ready 3.0 version is never
> considered. Instead, the 3.1 version is rejected (due to depending on
> gnome2) and the old 2.0 version is kept.

The DD who updated the 3.0 version into unstable should work to make
sure it enters testing.  Until it does they should not upload a less
stable version.  They should drive the process and not let the process
drive them.

Since they spent a significant amount of time in the first paragraph
preparing the package and squashing all bugs and getting it to build
on all platforms they should not throw that work away and overwrite it
with a less well tested or possibly more buggy version or they will
have to start the process again.  Just because upst

Re: Bug#188665: RC issue

[Manoj Srivastava]

>> On Sun, 13 Apr 2003 22:34:39 +0300,
>> Jarno Elonen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: 

 > I'm now getting a redefinition error and couldn't easily figure it
 > out:
 > In file included from conf_analysis_yy.h:5,
 >  from conf_analysis.yy:7:
 > /usr/include/FlexLexer.h:112: redefinition of `class
 > yyFlexLexer' /usr/include/FlexLexer.h:112: previous definition
 > of `class yyFlexLexer'

 > Is there a more detailed explanation/tutorial on what has changed
 > and how to update packages using Flex?

No, but such a document will be most welcome.

manoj

-- 
Concerning the war in Vietnam, Senator George Aiken of Vermount noted
in January, 1966, "I'm not very keen for doves or hawks.  I think we
need more owls." Bill Adler, "The Washington Wits"
Manoj Srivastava   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05  CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C

Re: Nameserver-pushing mechanism

[Thomas Hood]

Proposal: Implementation steps for dynamic resolver configuration

Assuming that it is impossible to update networking daemons and
DNS caches simultaneously with providing the infrastructure for
dynamic resolver configuration, we need a plan for doing it in
stages.

Each of the following steps should be completed before the next
one is taken.

* Modified sysvinit package creates /run/
* New "resolver" package includes /etc/init.d/resolver which
  generates /run/resolv.conf from /run/resolver/interface/*
  and does a run-parts on /etc/resolver/update.d/
* Networking daemon packages and ifupdown provide dynamic
  nameserver data in /run/resolver/interface/IFACE (in
  resolv.conf format) and call "/etc/init.d/resolver reload"
  on interface up, but continue to futz with /etc/resolv.conf
  as they do now
* Modified bind package provides /etc/resolver/update.d/bind
  which generates a new named.conf forwarders{} fragment.
  On installation, the package optionally sets up named.conf
  to include this fragment.  Likewise for other DNS caches.  
* Modified resolver package depends on the latter versions
  of the networking daemon packages and ifupdown.  On 
  installation, optionally changes /etc/resolv.conf into a
  symlink to /run/resolv.conf
* Modified networking daemon packages depend on the latter
  version of resolver and no longer futz with /etc/resolv.conf

Does this look reasonable?

-- 
Thomas Hood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: Maintainers with excessive old RC bugs

[Andrew Suffield]

On Mon, Apr 14, 2003 at 11:21:48AM +0200, Andreas Tille wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Apr 2003, Andrew Suffield wrote:
> 
> > If you don't understand why you are on this list, use the "maintainer
> > address" query on http://bugs.debian.org/ and look for old RC bugs. If
> > you still don't understand, mail me and I'll tell you.
> You just should add the "maintainer address" to this list.
> Reason: I would really like to help out Klaus Knopper which is no
> official Debian maintainer, but I would have to do extra investigation
> to find the page you are refering to.

Well, in the trivial form:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ grep-available -FMaintainer 'Klaus Knopper' -sMaintainer | 
sort -u
Maintainer: Klaus Knopper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

But I happen to have the list anyway, so here it is:

Kai Henningsen ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Christopher L Cheney ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Thomas Schoepf ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Akira Yamada ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Rob Tillotson ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Mark W Eichin ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Branden Robinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Daniel Burrows ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Martin Schulze ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Norbert Veber ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Rob Browning ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Barak Pearlmutter ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Takuo Kitame ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Masato Taruishi ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Guenter Geiger ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Piotr Roszatycki ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Richard Kreckel ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Takashi Okamoto ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Michael Alan Dorman ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Vaidhyanathan G Mayilrangam ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Matt Taggart ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
David Coe ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Mark Purcell ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Olaf Stetzer ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Daniel Glassey ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Ryuichi Arafune ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Yann Dirson ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Patrick Patterson ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Mika Fischer ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Viral Shah ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Kyle McMartin ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Matthew Wilcox ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Paul Hedderly ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Josef Spillner ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
William Lee Irwin III ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Martin Mitchell ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Greg Olszewski ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Santiago Garcia Mantinan ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Pavel Tcholakov ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Pawel Wiecek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Adrian Bridgett ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Zephaniah E Hull ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Kihyeon Seo ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Sam "Eddie" Couter ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Paul Slootman ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Marcelo Magallon ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Maurizio Boriani ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Jens Schmalzing ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Siggi Langauf ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Dale Scheetz ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Shaun Jackman ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Dima Barsky ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Mark Johnson ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Pablo Baena ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Federico Di Gregorio ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Petr Cech ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Mark Howard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Jonas Smedegaard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Stephen Zander ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Jan-Hendrik Palic ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Peter Gervai ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Jefferson E Noxon ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Jeremy T Bouse ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Nils Rennebarth ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Ryszard Lach ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Lamont Jones ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Joerg Jaspert ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Raphael Bossek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Josip Rodin ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Ed Boraas ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Michael Stone ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Stefan Hornburg ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Jules Bean ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Scott M Dier ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
James R Van Zandt ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Mikael Andersson ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Klaus Knopper ([EMAIL PROTECTED])

-- 
  .''`.  ** Debian GNU/Linux ** | Andrew Suffield
 : :' :  http://www.debian.org/ | Dept. of Computing,
 `. `'  | Imperial College,
   `- -><-  | London, UK


pgpBfzGEzJSwL.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Why is only the latest unstable package considered for testing?

[Sven Luther]

On Mon, Apr 14, 2003 at 03:14:21AM -0600, Bob Proulx wrote:
> The DD who updated the 3.0 version into unstable should work to make
> sure it enters testing.  Until it does they should not upload a less
> stable version.  They should drive the process and not let the process
> drive them.

but often it is out of hiw hand.

BTW, do you know if uploading a package to testing-update will be
considered by the testing scripts if the unstable version is a new
version and/or too buggy and such ? This would be a neat way to
rebuilding a testing package which is holding back huge amount of other
packages and just needs a rebuild, but the unstable version is not
considered for this, since it depends on a huge amount of other (broken)
packages.

Friendly,

Sven Luther

Bug#188960: ITP: mangband -- multiplayer text-based rogue like dungeon simulation game

[Gerfried Fuchs]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist

* Package name: mangband
  Version : 0.7.2a
  Upstream Author : Robert Seifer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://www.mangband.org/
* License : see the file COPYING in the source tarball:
non-free as in for non-commercial use only
  Description : multiplayer text-based rogue like dungeon simulation game

 MAngband is a multiplayer game based on Angband. It works through a
 metaserver where new servers register. A server program is included in
 the package, so you can set up your own server and play there with your
 friends.
 .
 Angband is one of those games that are rogue like: A dungeon explore
 game with a textual frontend.


 I've mailed with crimson about the mentioning of the GPLed xpilot code
in the COPYING file and he told me that all of the xpilot networking
code was replaced since then so no GPL violation happened there.

 I personally would really prefer if the thing would be more DFSG free,
but the Moria/Angband code is that old with tons of contributors that it
isn't possible to change it.  Although there are efforts to produce a
GPL version of Angband, from which MAngband (and of course the Angband
package itself, and Zangband) could profit in the long term:


 Have fun,
Alfie
-- 
 Von uns allen bleibt nur Asche. Nur die DWN wird man in hundert Jahren 
  noch nachlesen koennen.

Rimfirecentral.com

[Denton, Robert]

I don't know what happened, but I am not happy.  Your shit is showing up as
the homepage of Rimfirecentral.com.  Whatever caused this needs to be
resolved.

Re: Announcing a Debian wallpaper package.

[Andreas Tille]

On Mon, 7 Apr 2003, Steve Kemp wrote:

>   Mail me offlist if you'd like me to start hosting this package, etc.
I just keep this on list just to announce that some more images are available
now in version 0.2 of wallpapers-at package at

http://people.debian.org/~tille/debian-background/

I wonder if I should splitt these package into

   wallpapers-at-4x3  for 4x3 screen dimensions like 1600x1200, 1024x768, ...
   wallpapers-at-5x4  for 5x4 screen dimensions like 1280x1024

I'm afraid if I would not do this the package grows to a unnecessary big size.

Kind regards

   Andreas.

--
Mankind must put an end to war before war puts an end to mankind.
John F. Kennedy

Re: Rimfirecentral.com

[Martijn van Oosterhout]

Sigh...

On Mon, Apr 14, 2003 at 04:26:33AM -0700, Denton, Robert wrote:
> I don't know what happened, but I am not happy.  Your shit is showing up as
> the homepage of Rimfirecentral.com.  Whatever caused this needs to be
> resolved.

Well, I can't reach that server at all, but if you mean something like at
http://charon.nightbird.net/home.html you should read more carefully:

: This is a homepage installed by the Debian release of the Apache Web
: server package, because this home page was installed on this host. You may
: want to replace your own web pages as soon as possible with this one, of
: course

: This computer has installed the Debian GNU/Linux operating system but has
: nothing to do with the Debian GNU/Linux project. If you want to report
: something about this host's behavior or domain, please contact the ISPs
: involved directly, not the Debian Project.

Note the "nothing to do with Debian" phrase.
-- 
Martijn van Oosterhout  http://svana.org/kleptog/
> "the West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or
> religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence.
> Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do."
>   - Samuel P. Huntington


pgpzM3hV8Qm9k.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Stupid use of debconf award

[Josselin Mouette]

I'd like to congratulate Michael Alan Dorman for the most stupid and
annoying use of debconf. The bunch of questions asked on the libnet-perl
installation are just annoying people installing it for what it is : a
dependency for packages needing networking functionality for perl.

Please, kick out all those questions. They have nothing to do here and
should be replaced by either configuration files or autodetection. There
have been 4 bug reports for more than 6 months asking for this and you
haven't even replied to any of them.

Maybe it should be recalled to everyone that debconf is not a place for
asking users a bunch of stupid crap (how many % of our users know what
is SNMP ?), but a place to configure the few things that cannot be
autodected. Thank you.
-- 
 .''`.   Josselin Mouette/\./\
: :' :   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
`. `'[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  `-  Debian GNU/Linux -- The power of freedom


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Stupid use of debconf award

[Jérôme Marant]

En réponse à Josselin Mouette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Maybe it should be recalled to everyone that debconf is not a place
> for
> asking users a bunch of stupid crap (how many % of our users know what
> is SNMP ?), but a place to configure the few things that cannot be
> autodected. Thank you.

And _you_ think public flamage will fix the situation?

--
Jérôme Marant

Re: Stupid use of debconf award

[Michael Alan Dorman]

Josselin,

As I have publically stated before, I will happily give up this
package to someone who is obviously motivated to improve it

Are you that person?

Mike

defoma description

[Russell Coker]

Is there some equivalent to defoma for other distributions?

How would you describe the defoma data that applications read?  Is it just 
font configuration files or is there more?

I want to setup appropriate SE Linux policy for applications which defoma 
files and want to not have it Debian specific if possible (surely other 
distributions solve similar problems in similar ways).

Fonts really aren't my thing, so I'd appreciate some advice here.

-- 
http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/   My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages
http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/  Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark
http://www.coker.com.au/postal/Postal SMTP/POP benchmark
http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/  My home page

Re: Stupid use of debconf award

[Goulais, Raphael]

On Monday 14 April 2003 14:30, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Maybe it should be recalled to everyone that debconf is not a place for
> asking users a bunch of stupid crap (how many % of our users know what
> is SNMP ?), but a place to configure the few things that cannot be
> autodected. Thank you.

I don't agree. These questions can be helpful for sysadmins whishing to 
automate installation over several stations. These questions should be given 
low priority, perhaps ...

Your mail contains 3 stupid, 2 annoying and 1 crap ... I don't think this is 
very constructive.

Raphael

-- 
Not only the sources ...

curl, testing and gcc-3.2 (?) (was Re: Debian curl package depends on gcc-3.2?)

[Domenico Andreoli]

hi,

i don't really know where that gcc-3.2 is coming from. as you can see
curl doesn't depend on it explicitly.

anyway debian has migrated to gcc 3.2 as default compiler and i build
curl with gcc 3.2 since a couple of releases ago. maybe it is required
someway. i'm CC debian-devel@, maybe some kind soul might help here

cheers
cavok

$ dpkg -s curl libcurl2
Package: curl
Status: install ok installed
Priority: optional
Section: web
Installed-Size: 284
Maintainer: Domenico Andreoli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Version: 7.10.4-1
Replaces: curl-ssl
Provides: curl-ssl
Depends: libc6 (>= 2.3.1-1), libcurl2 (>= 7.10.4-1), libssl0.9.7, zlib1g (>= 
1:1.1.4)
Description: Get a file from an HTTP, HTTPS, FTP or GOPHER server
 curl is a client to get files from servers using any of the supported
 protocols. The command is designed to work without user interaction
 or any kind of interactivity.
 .
 curl offers a busload of useful tricks like proxy support, user
 authentication, ftp upload, HTTP post, file transfer resume and more.
 .
 More information can be found at the curl web site http://curl.haxx.se .

Package: libcurl2
Status: install ok installed
Priority: optional
Section: libs
Installed-Size: 512
Maintainer: Domenico Andreoli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Source: curl
Version: 7.10.4-1
Replaces: libcurl2-ssl
Provides: libcurl2-ssl
Depends: libc6 (>= 2.3.1-1), libssl0.9.7, zlib1g (>= 1:1.1.4)
Suggests: ca-certificates
Description: Multi-protocol file transfer library, now with SSL support!
 libcurl is designed to be a solid, usable, reliable and portable
 multi-protocol file transfer library.
 .
 This is the shared version of libcurl.
 .
 More information can be found at the curl web site http://curl.haxx.se .


On Mon, Apr 14, 2003 at 01:17:44PM +0200, Bj?rn Stenberg wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> I'm looking at http://packages.qa.debian.org/c/curl.html and noticed it says 
> curl depends on gcc-3.2. How come? I spoke to Daniel and he says he never 
> even uses gcc 3.2, so it's obviously not an upstream dependency.
> 
> The reason I'm asking is that this dependency stops curl from entering 
> testing. Testing now contains a curl version that is over a year old.
> 

-[ Domenico Andreoli, aka cavok
 --[ http://filibusta.crema.unimi.it/~cavok/gpgkey.asc
   ---[ 3A0F 2F80 F79C 678A 8936  4FEE 0677 9033 A20E BC50

Re: Stupid use of debconf award

[Josselin Mouette]

Michael Alan Dorman a écrit :
> Josselin,
> 
> As I have publically stated before, I will happily give up this
> package to someone who is obviously motivated to improve it
> 
> Are you that person?

After re-reading my message, I would like to apologize for having been 
unnecessarily rude, being already tense for other reasons.

I don't want to handle libnet-perl, but I can try to provide a patch for 
that specific issue if you need it.
-- 
 .''`.   Josselin Mouette/\./\
: :' :   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
`. `'[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  `-  Debian GNU/Linux -- The power of freedom


pgp1PvCSDxCbp.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Upcoming removal of orphaned packages

[Martin Schulze]

Andreas Tille wrote:
> > mpsql -- A graphical frontend for PostgreSQL [#89957]
> >   * Orphaned 755 days ago
> It would be great if someone would step in here.  Graphical frontends to
> PostgreSQL are quite rare.

It's non-free.  However, Erik Tews fixed the package so it has proper
build dependencies and after a rebuild the package installs again.
I've just uploaded the package.

Is there no GTK based SQL monitor for PostgreSQL?  I can't believe
that the non-free mpsql is the only graphical one.

Regards,

Joey

-- 
Long noun chains don't automatically imply security.  -- Bruce Schneier

Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists.

Re: Stupid use of debconf award

[Hamish Moffatt]

On Mon, Apr 14, 2003 at 02:13:32PM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> I'd like to congratulate Michael Alan Dorman for the most stupid and
> annoying use of debconf. The bunch of questions asked on the libnet-perl
> installation are just annoying people installing it for what it is : a
> dependency for packages needing networking functionality for perl.

I think there are many stupid debconf questions in our packages. I think
too many packages ask you to configure every minute detail through
debconf. 

As well as questions that are too trivial there are the ones which
assume too much prior knowledge, especially when they are just packages
needed as dependencies and not something explicitly installed by the
local administrator.

Should we have a review of all debconf questions on debian-qa perhaps?
Anyone interested?

Hamish
-- 
Hamish Moffatt VK3SB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: Maintainers with excessive old RC bugs

[Josef Spillner]

On Monday 14 April 2003 09:44, Andrew Suffield wrote:
> This is a sorted (worst offenders first) list of maintainers who have
> excessive numbers of old RC bugs open against their packages. Bugs
...
> Josef Spillner

Your script is buggy, fix it :-)

Are sponsored NMUs allowed in case of RC bugs right now?
(That'd be a cool way of circumventing NM stage ;)

Josef

-- 
Play for fun, win for freedom.

Re: Stupid use of debconf award

[Josef Spillner]

On Monday 14 April 2003 14:13, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Please, kick out all those questions. They have nothing to do here and
> should be replaced by either configuration files or autodetection. There
> have been 4 bug reports for more than 6 months asking for this and you
> haven't even replied to any of them.

With the new debian installer, it is possible (*) to let this depend on a 
value set previously, based on questions similar to the current debconf 
priorities, but more fine-grained.

(*) is possible means, it might not be implemented yet but the installer 
project is ongoing work, and if newbies might be irritated by SNMP questions 
it needs to be fixed there and not in the packages targeting advanced users.

Josef

-- 
Play for fun, win for freedom.

Re: Hardware Compatibility List for Woody (exist)?

[Martin Schulze]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Dear Debian Devs,
> 
> Is there any kind of Hardware Compatibility List for Debian(Woody)?

Boot a Knoppix CD.  If it detects and runs your hardware, it is supported.
If it doesn't, it isn't.

> I know there is the Hardware-Howto but this document is (too) old.

orphaned, deprecated.

Wasn't there a hardware database at linux.com or linux.org?  I can't
find it anymore and I didn't really care before.

Regards,

Joey

-- 
Long noun chains don't automatically imply security.  -- Bruce Schneier

Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists.

Re: curl, testing and gcc-3.2 (?) (was Re: Debian curl package depends on gcc-3.2?)

[Anthony Towns]

On Mon, Apr 14, 2003 at 03:56:48PM +0200, Domenico Andreoli wrote:
> i don't really know where that gcc-3.2 is coming from. as you can see
> curl doesn't depend on it explicitly.

You'll find it does on arm and probably one or two other architectures,
but in particular:

Package: libcurl2
Architecture: arm
Version: 7.10.4-1
Depends: libc6 (>= 2.3.1-1), libgcc1 (>= 1:3.2.3-0pre6), ...

Cheers,
aj

-- 
Anthony Towns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
I don't speak for anyone save myself. GPG signed mail preferred.

  ``Dear Anthony Towns: [...] Congratulations -- 
you are now certified as a Red Hat Certified Engineer!''


pgpQwujKrlsd7.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Debian Developer LDAP

[Mark Bucciarelli]

I've volunteered to help build a database of KDE advocates and am 
starting the design.  A previous kde-promo thread mentioned the 
Debian LDAP gateway as a possible model to follow.

I would be interested in any feedback the Debian developers have on 
this system.  It seems to have a lot of nice functionality, but I'd 
like to know how it actually get's used.  (For example, it seems 
xplanet stuff doesn't work right now--no X's on the map, and the 
coords file is empty.)  

Here's a few questions that I came up with.  I'm interested in any and 
all feedback, so don't feel limited by this set. :)

(1) what do you find most useful?  least?

(2) do people really update their records?  (For example, what 
percentage of entries were updated last year?  What percentage of 
entries have not been updated at all for two years?  three years?)

(3) is the email gateway used?

(4) are there any docs I can read?  (The KDE thread made mention of 
some python scripts.)

(5) if I decide to follow the LDAP route, is there someone here who 
would be willing to take some time to give me a bit of guidance?

While an LDAP approach seems to be the correct one, I've no experience 
with it so I'm leery of starting something I cannot finish.

Thanks for any feedback.

Mark

P.S. I'm not subscribed, so please CC me.

Status of Sarge release issues

[Drew Scott Daniels]

I'd like to see a place where the status of all the various places where
potential Sarge release issues are tracked. I feel that
http://www.debian.org/devel/testing was missing things, and I didn't see
anything else like this. Following the debian-devel convention, I created
something myself.

I may not be pointing to the canonical locations. My guesses about
priorities (1-3) of things to be done before Sarge is released is below
with status information. I'm unsure as to where to get status information
about some things in the second paragraph below (which is mainly about
packages).
2 Installer TODO:
http://cvs.debian.org/debian-installer/doc/TODO?rev=HEAD&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup
1 Ports(aka architectures) status:
http://people.debian.org/~mckinstry/ports-status.html
2 gcc 3.2 (g++ abi change?) transition status (versions with c102 suffix):
http://people.debian.org/~rmurray/c++transition.html
2 Release Critical Bugs status: http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/
1 Problems in testing:
http://ftp-master.debian.org/testing/testing_probs.html
2 IPV6 status & status guesses:
http://debdev.fabbione.net/cgi-bin/getstats
2 Debian Description Translation Project (DDTP) status:
http://ddtp.debian.org/stats/
3 Status of aptitude categories (Replaces "tags" or keywords ideas, I'd
rather have trove descriptions): http://debian.vitavonni.de/packagebrowser/
3 Menu system update(s)?
http://phys251.phy.olemiss.edu/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/ or
http://www.freedesktop.org/standards/menu/draft/menu-spec/menu-spec.html
(as suggested in
http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2003/debian-devel-200304/msg00800.html )
3 fhs status: http://qa.debian.org/fhs.html
3 AMD x86-64 port? Several threads have been on debian-devel about this.

3 Linux Kernel 2.6?!?
http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2003/debian-devel-200304/msg00964.html
I think that it may be unreasonable to wait for this. There were some
potential Debian Installer (d-i) issues listed in the same thread.
2 Ooo (OpenOffice.org 1.0.3?)? Very desirable but held back by
transitions. More info at least on the debian ooo mailing list, is there a
status site?
2 Perl transition (5.6-5.8)? The debian-perl list might have an up to date
status, is there a status site?
2 KDE (3.1?)? Is there a status site?
2 Postgresql (bugs?, devel site(S)?)?
2 Python transition? It looks to be near completion judging from the
responses to
http://lists.debian.org/debian-python/2003/debian-python-200304/msg00010.html
2 libpng transition? debian-devel has some discussion about this archived
for Jan and Jul 2002. 
http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2002/debian-devel-200207/msg01106.html is 
quite interesting.
2 ocaml status?
http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2003/debian-devel-200304/msg00986.html
and bug 187155.
3 gzip rsync patch (patch will be removed or fixed for alphas):
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=gzip
3 QT transition (Qt2->Qt3)? Mentioned in thread
http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2003/debian-devel-200303/msg00217.html
3 MySQL 4 (coming or just uploaded to unstable?)?
3 Gnome: http://people.debian.org/~walters/gnome2.html
3 Java (some packages were in contrib/non-free because they wouldn't work
with free Java implementations. There was some talk about a potential Java
transition but from what to what?)?
3 guile 1.4 -> 1.6 transition?
http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2003/debian-devel-200302/msg00255.html
3 XFree86 status (I suspect sarge'll have 4.2.1, not 4.3.0):
http://people.debian.org/~branden/xsf/xsf.html


Some other notes:
Boot-floppies status (very likely *has to* be replaced with the
debian-installer): http://people.debian.org/~dwhedon/

Testing information: http://www.debian.org/devel/testing
Update excuses:
http://ftp-master.debian.org/testing/update_excuses.html.gz
Update output: http://ftp-master.debian.org/testing/update_output.txt

QA information (links to info on RC bugs and alike):
http://qa.debian.org

A Woody+1 (aka sarge) release goal wishlist:
http://people.debian.org/~erich/woody+1/
Discussion about Woody+1 (goals) at:
http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2002/debian-devel-200205/msg02497.html
Older (hamm, slink) release goals: http://people.debian.org/~joey/goals/

Info about release(d) revisions of Stable:
http://people.debian.org/~joey/stable.html
Website translation status: http://www.debian.org/devel/website/stats/
Debian keys trust metrics: http://people.debian.org/~weasel/weboftrust/
(It'd be nice to see a higher trust metric.)
Package Popularity (popularity-contest):
http://people.debian.org/~apenwarr/popcon/

Devel todo list: http://www.debian.org/devel/todo/

 Drew Daniels

Re: curl, testing and gcc-3.2 (?) (was Re: Debian curl package depends on gcc-3.2?)

[Matthias Urlichs]

Hi,

On Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:56:48 +, Domenico Andreoli wrote:
> i don't really know where that gcc-3.2 is coming from. as you can see curl
> doesn't depend on it explicitly.
> 
If it is built with gcc-3.2 and it needs a symbol from libgcc-3.2, then
the resulting package will depend on gcc-3.2.

I can't think of an easy fix. The packages in unstable are supposed to move to
testing as-is, and IMHO automatically trying to re-build them in testing
when that doesn't work because of auto-generated dependencies (how do you
find those?) sort of defeats the whole idea.

Maybe it's time to force gcc-3.2 into testing..?


-- 
Matthias

Re: curl, testing and gcc-3.2 (?) (was Re: Debian curl package depends on gcc-3.2?)

[Domenico Andreoli]

$ ldd `which curl`
libcurl.so.2 => /usr/lib/libcurl.so.2 (0x27ae1000)
libssl.so.0.9.7 => /usr/lib/i686/cmov/libssl.so.0.9.7 (0x27b06000)
libcrypto.so.0.9.7 => /usr/lib/i686/cmov/libcrypto.so.0.9.7 (0x27b35000)
libdl.so.2 => /lib/libdl.so.2 (0x27c25000)
libz.so.1 => /lib/libz.so.1 (0x27c28000)
libc.so.6 => /lib/libc.so.6 (0x27c35000)
/lib/ld-linux.so.2 => /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x27ac3000)
$ 

hmmm... doesn't look as if it depend on any ligcc-3.2

On Mon, Apr 14, 2003 at 04:52:00PM +0200, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:56:48 +, Domenico Andreoli wrote:
> > i don't really know where that gcc-3.2 is coming from. as you can see curl
> > doesn't depend on it explicitly.
> > 
> If it is built with gcc-3.2 and it needs a symbol from libgcc-3.2, then
> the resulting package will depend on gcc-3.2.
> 
> I can't think of an easy fix. The packages in unstable are supposed to move to
> testing as-is, and IMHO automatically trying to re-build them in testing
> when that doesn't work because of auto-generated dependencies (how do you
> find those?) sort of defeats the whole idea.
> 
> Maybe it's time to force gcc-3.2 into testing..?
> 
> 
> -- 
> Matthias
> 


-[ Domenico Andreoli, aka cavok
 --[ http://filibusta.crema.unimi.it/~cavok/gpgkey.asc
   ---[ 3A0F 2F80 F79C 678A 8936  4FEE 0677 9033 A20E BC50

Re: curl, testing and gcc-3.2 (?) (was Re: Debian curl package depends on gcc-3.2?)

[Steve Langasek]

On Mon, Apr 14, 2003 at 03:56:48PM +0200, Domenico Andreoli wrote:
> i don't really know where that gcc-3.2 is coming from. as you can see
> curl doesn't depend on it explicitly.

> anyway debian has migrated to gcc 3.2 as default compiler and i build
> curl with gcc 3.2 since a couple of releases ago. maybe it is required
> someway. i'm CC debian-devel@, maybe some kind soul might help here

On some platforms (i386 is not one of them), binaries are dynamically
linked against libgcc, which comes from the gcc-3.2 source package.  As a
result, your package can't enter testing until gcc-3.2 itself does.

-- 
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer


pgpiZJ8DVB9dK.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Database-specificisms considered harmful

[Matthias Urlichs]

Hi,

On Mon, 14 Apr 2003 08:42:07 +, Gerfried Fuchs wrote:
> * Matthias Urlichs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2003-04-11 14:34]:
>> Whatever happened to the idea of using a common database access library
>> like iODBC? It's reasonably small, Not A Burden if you happen to not
>> require any database lookup features, and it doesn't bloat the archives
>> with four versions of exim (-none, -mysql, -pgsql, and -kitchensink).
> 
>  Thats a really nice idea.  Are you going to send in patches for the
> various programs to support that?
> 
For those I actually use with databases? Yes.

>  If a program supports it already I would expect the
> maintainer of the package to do the reasonable thing and enable that
> sort of binding. 

There are some packages built as foo, foo-mysql, foo-pgsql,
foo-kitchensink, _and_ foo-odbc. IMHO the middle three are superflouos.

-- 
Matthias

apt-check-sigs and absoute dists/

[Guido Guenther]

Hi,
attached is a small patch that allows apt-check-sigs to also check
absolute dists (i.e. ending in a '/') like:
 deb http://people.debian.org/~foo/woody-backports bar/
(in case http://people.debian.org/~foo/woody-backports/bar/ contains a
signed release file with the md5sum of the Packages file in the same
directory, like: 

Origin: people.debian.org
Label: foo 
Suite: stable
Codename: woody
Component: main
Description: bar woody backport
MD5Sum:
 4911ffcbb10d25e176507db4dc5f4be1   13742   Packages
 c0ef0457b198e6dee176920f9ba0524c   1677Sources

). This would allow maintainers to sign the Release files of their woody
backports or whatever if they want to.
Regards,
 -- Guido
--- apt-check-sigs.orig Fri Apr 11 19:36:16 2003
+++ apt-check-sigs  Mon Apr 14 13:42:26 2003
@@ -2,6 +2,8 @@
 
 # Copyright (c) 2001 Anthony Towns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 #
+# support for absolute dists/ by Guido Guenther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
+#
 # This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
 # it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
 # the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or
@@ -33,7 +35,7 @@
 }
 
 checkit () {
-   local FILE="$1"
+   local FILE=`echo $1 | sed 's/~/%7e/g'`
local LOOKUP="$2"
 
Y="`get_md5sumsize Release "$LOOKUP"`"
@@ -49,6 +51,14 @@
echo "MISSING $Y"
return
fi
+   # we simply can't store the md5sum of the release file in the release
+   # file itself for absoule dists - it's okay not check it since we 
already
+   # verified it's gpg signature
+   if [ "$LOOKUP" = "Release" ]; then
+   echo "$FILE" >>OK
+   echo "OK"
+   return
+   fi
if [ "$Y" = "" ]; then
echo "$FILE" >>NOCHECK
echo "NOCHECK"
@@ -86,11 +96,19 @@
continue
fi
 
-   echo "Source: ${ty} ${url} ${dist} ${comps}"
-   
+   if [ -z "$comps" -a `expr match $dist '.*/$'` != "0" ]; then
+   comps=$dist
+   unset dist
+   release=${url}/${comps}/Release
+   echo "Source: ${ty} ${url} ${comps}"
+   else
+   echo "Source: ${ty} ${url} ${dist} ${comps}"
+   release=${url}/dists/${dist}/Release
+   fi
+
rm -f Release Release.gpg
-   lynx -reload -dump "${url}/dists/${dist}/Release" >/dev/null 2>&1
-   wget -q -O Release "${url}/dists/${dist}/Release"
+   lynx -reload -dump $release >/dev/null 2>&1
+   wget -q -O Release $release
 
if ! grep -q '^' Release; then
echo "  * NO TOP-LEVEL Release FILE"
@@ -107,12 +125,12 @@
echo "  o $dateline"
echo "  o $dscrline"
 
-   if [ "${dist%%/*}" != "$suitline" -a "${dist%%/*}" != 
"$codeline" ]; then
+   if [ "$dist" -a "${dist%%/*}" != "$suitline" -a "${dist%%/*}" 
!= "$codeline" ]; then
echo "  * WARNING: asked for $dist, got 
$suitline/$codeline"
fi
 
-   lynx -reload -dump "${url}/dists/${dist}/Release.gpg" 
>/dev/null 2>&1
-   wget -q -O Release.gpg "${url}/dists/${dist}/Release.gpg"
+   lynx -reload -dump ${release}.gpg >/dev/null 2>&1
+   wget -q -O Release.gpg ${release}.gpg

gpgv --status-fd 3 Release.gpg Release 3>&1 >/dev/null 2>&1 | 
sed -n "s/^\[GNUPG:\] //p" | (okay=0; err=""; while read gpgcode rest; do
if [ "$gpgcode" = "GOODSIG" ]; then
@@ -143,16 +161,26 @@
okaycomps=""
for comp in $comps; do
if [ "$ty" = "deb" ]; then
-   X=$(checkit "`echo 
"${baseurl}/dists/${dist}/${comp}/binary-${arch}/Release" | sed 's,//*,_,g'`" 
"${comp}/binary-${arch}/Release")
-   Y=$(checkit "`echo 
"${baseurl}/dists/${dist}/${comp}/binary-${arch}/Packages" | sed 's,//*,_,g'`" 
"${comp}/binary-${arch}/Packages")
+   if [ "$dist" ]; then
+   X=$(checkit "`echo 
"${baseurl}/dists/${dist}/${comp}/binary-${arch}/Release" | sed 's,//*,_,g'`" 
"${comp}/binary-${arch}/Release")
+   Y=$(checkit "`echo 
"${baseurl}/dists/${dist}/${comp}/binary-${arch}/Packages" | sed 's,//*,_,g'`" 
"${comp}/binary-${arch}/Packages")
+   else
+   X=$(checkit "`echo "${baseurl}/${comp}Release" 
| sed 's,//*,_,g'`" "Release")
+   Y=$(checkit "`echo "${baseurl}/${comp}Packages" 
| sed 's,//*,_,g'`" "Packages")
+   fi
if [ "$X $Y" = "OK OK" ]; then
okaycomps="$okaycomps $comp"
else
echo "  * PROBLEMS WITH $comp ($X, $Y)"
fi
elif [ "$ty" = "deb-src" ]; then
-   

Re: curl, testing and gcc-3.2 (?) (was Re: Debian curl package depends on gcc-3.2?)

[Matthias Urlichs]

Hi,

Domenico Andreoli wrote:
> $ ldd `which curl`
> [ no libgcc or similar ]

Duh. You're right. I admit to not being able to think of any other good 
(i.e. not-a-bug) reason why this dependency should be there, then. Since 
one of my packages has the same problem, I'll go and check why 
dpkg-shlibdeps (what else??) thinks so.

-- 
Matthias Urlichs|noris network AG|http://smurf.noris.de/
-- 
My dungeon cell decor will not feature exposed pipes. While they add to
the gloomy atmosphere, they are good conductors of vibrations and a lot
of prisoners know Morse code.
-- The Evil Overlord List


pgprRkWZGPv67.pgp
Description: signature

Re: curl, testing and gcc-3.2 (?) (was Re: Debian curl package depends on gcc-3.2?)

[Domenico Andreoli]

On Mon, Apr 14, 2003 at 05:17:33PM +0200, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
> Duh. You're right. I admit to not being able to think of any other good 
> (i.e. not-a-bug) reason why this dependency should be there, then. Since 
> one of my packages has the same problem, I'll go and check why 
> dpkg-shlibdeps (what else??) thinks so.
> 

package dependencies are ok, so dpkg-shlibdeps is not wrong. at least
on i386.


-[ Domenico Andreoli, aka cavok
 --[ http://filibusta.crema.unimi.it/~cavok/gpgkey.asc
   ---[ 3A0F 2F80 F79C 678A 8936  4FEE 0677 9033 A20E BC50

Re: curl, testing and gcc-3.2 (?) (was Re: Debian curl package depends on gcc-3.2?)

[Colin Watson]

On Mon, Apr 14, 2003 at 03:56:48PM +0200, Domenico Andreoli wrote:
> i don't really know where that gcc-3.2 is coming from. as you can see
> curl doesn't depend on it explicitly.

libcurl2 and libcurl2-dbg depend on libgcc1 on arm. libgcc1 supplies
certain parts of the C runtime. There isn't really anything package
maintainers can do about this.

Björn, I would suggest you concentrate on other problems for now, such
as packages that have been held out for a long time. There are plenty of
them.

-- 
Colin Watson  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Stupid use of debconf award

[Michael Alan Dorman]

Josselin Mouette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> After re-reading my message, I would like to apologize for having been 
> unnecessarily rude, being already tense for other reasons.

Apology accepted.

> I don't want to handle libnet-perl, but I can try to provide a patch
> for that specific issue if you need it.

If you give me a patch that allows people to choose to bypass all the
questions (without just removing the debconf support wholesale, which
was put in after years of getting bug reports complaining about the
lack of same), I'll certainly give priority to applying it and
releasing the result.

I am still soliciting for someone with time to take over this package.

Mike
-- 
They say Confucious does his crossword with a pen -- Tori Amos

Topics for Debian conferences?

[Martin Schulze]

With two Debian conferences ([1] [2]) taking place this year, I wonder
which topics other developers would like to see covered by the talks
and/or workshops held within.

For the Debian day [1] I'm maintaining a list anyway, so I would be
glad to be flooded with ideas to add and for which we could try to
find a speaker.

For the Debian Conference [2] the ideas could be added to the todo
list in the hope somebody will submit a talk on that subject.

(These events in particular should be discussed on the
debian-events-eu list and not on debian-devel.)

Regards,

Joey

Links:
 1. http://www.debian.org/events/2003/0710-linuxtag
 2. http://www.debian.org/events/2003/0718-debconf

-- 
Long noun chains don't automatically imply security.  -- Bruce Schneier

Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists.

Re: Maintainers with excessive old RC bugs

[Colin Watson]

On Mon, Apr 14, 2003 at 04:20:45PM +0200, Josef Spillner wrote:
> On Monday 14 April 2003 09:44, Andrew Suffield wrote:
> > This is a sorted (worst offenders first) list of maintainers who have
> > excessive numbers of old RC bugs open against their packages. Bugs
> ...
> > Josef Spillner
> 
> Your script is buggy, fix it :-)

Assuming you're <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, you have four open
release-critical bugs, none of which have had any response, and three of
which have been open since October.

-- 
Colin Watson  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Hardware Compatibility List for Woody (exist)?

[Chad Miller]

> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Is there any kind of Hardware Compatibility List for Debian(Woody)?
 
On Mon, Apr 14, 2003 at 04:19:59PM +0200, Martin Schulze wrote:
> Boot a Knoppix CD.  If it detects and runs your hardware, it is supported.
> If it doesn't, it isn't.
[...]
> Wasn't there a hardware database at linux.com or linux.org?  I can't
> find it anymore and I didn't really care before.

Ya know, a reporting program along the lines of "popularity-contest"
might be pretty useful.  Add a simple interface to allow users to assert
that some hardware does or doesn't work to some degree, to override
"autodetection".

An up-to-date compatibility list might be a snapshot of the past month's
reports.  Perhaps searching for some hardware could suggest the best boot
image to use (matching reported kernel version to image version).  It
might assist the d-installer folks in seeing the "best common practice"
of kernels and modules for some hardware.

Anyway, I'm just "thinking out loud", not volunteering to write it.

- chad


pgp4WI1dzUr7e.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: curl, testing and gcc-3.2 (?) (was Re: Debian curl package depends on gcc-3.2?)

[Matthias Urlichs]

Hi,

>  I'll go and check why
> dpkg-shlibdeps (what else??) thinks so.

Well, it doesn't. Not on i386 and ppc, anyway. As aj wrote, though, 
apparently it does on arm.  :-/

-- 
Matthias Urlichs|noris network AG|http://smurf.noris.de/
-- 
"We learn from history that we learn nothing from history."
-- George Bernard Shaw


pgpLtjqqxrScp.pgp
Description: signature

Re: Status of Sarge release issues

[Josip Rodin]

On Mon, Apr 14, 2003 at 09:45:29AM -0500, Drew Scott Daniels wrote:
> I'd like to see a place where the status of all the various places where
> potential Sarge release issues are tracked. I feel that
> http://www.debian.org/devel/testing was missing things, and I didn't see
> anything else like this.

You managed to miss http://www.debian.org/releases/testing/ :)

-- 
 2. That which causes joy or happiness.

postgresql RC bug: Help needed in tracking this down

[Oliver Elphick]

There's a problem somewhere in postgresql-dump which is called by the
post-installation script, but I can't find it.  I would welcome help
from anyone who can take a look and find where the bug is.

Problem: under some circumstances, /etc/postgresql/pg_hba.conf is
overwritten by a one line file reading "local all trust".  This must be
done by postgresql-dump in order to assure itself full access so that it
can do the dump and restore for a new database version of postgresql,
but the trap statements in the script should restore the proper
pg_hba.conf  (unless someone does kill -9).  For unkown reasons the
proper file is not being restored during some upgrades.  It looks as
though postgresql-dump is being called when an upgrade is not needed,
but I'm not sure if this is a result or a cause of the problem.

-- 
Oliver Elphick[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Isle of Wight, UK http://www.lfix.co.uk/oliver
GPG: 1024D/3E1D0C1C: CA12 09E0 E8D5 8870 5839  932A 614D 4C34 3E1D 0C1C
 
 "Be strong, and let your heart take courage, all you 
  who hope in the Lord."   Psalm 31:24 

Re: Debian Developer LDAP

[Andreas Metzler]

Mark Bucciarelli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I've volunteered to help build a database of KDE advocates and am 
> starting the design.  A previous kde-promo thread mentioned the 
> Debian LDAP gateway as a possible model to follow.

> I would be interested in any feedback the Debian developers have on 
> this system.  It seems to have a lot of nice functionality, but I'd 
> like to know how it actually get's used.  (For example, it seems 
> xplanet stuff doesn't work right now--no X's on the map, and the 
> coords file is empty.)  

This is reported in the BTS and only broke a short time ago.

> Here's a few questions that I came up with.  I'm interested in any and 
> all feedback, so don't feel limited by this set. :)

> (1) what do you find most useful?
[...]

The e-mail gateway.
   cu andreas
-- 
Hey, da ist ein Ballonautomat auf der Toilette!
Unofficial _Debian-packages_ of latest unstable _tin_
http://www.logic.univie.ac.at/~ametzler/debian/tin-snapshot/

Re: Debian Developer LDAP

[Rene Engelhard]

Hi,

Mark Bucciarelli wrote:
> (2) do people really update their records?  (For example, what 
> percentage of entries were updated last year?  What percentage of 
> entries have not been updated at all for two years?  three years?)

Well, personal information is not that often updated when it doesn't
change :)

> (3) is the email gateway used?

Yes. For some things (password forgotten, ssh keys, DNS CNAMES that's
IIRC the only way...)
 
> (5) if I decide to follow the LDAP route, is there someone here who 
> would be willing to take some time to give me a bit of guidance?

[EMAIL PROTECTED] would be one place; but I assume that they
have more important things to do. But trying cannot hurt ;)

Regards,

Rene
-- 
 .''`.  Rene Engelhard -- Debian GNU/Linux Developer
 : :' : http://www.debian.org | http://people.debian.org/~rene/
 `. `'  [EMAIL PROTECTED] | GnuPG-Key ID: 248AEB73
   `-   Fingerprint: 41FA F208 28D4 7CA5 19BB  7AD9 F859 90B0 248A EB73


pgp8R13MG8pOM.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Nameserver-pushing mechanism

[Keegan Quinn]

On Monday 14 April 2003 02:36 am, Thomas Hood wrote:
> Proposal: Implementation steps for dynamic resolver configuration

[snip]

> * New "resolver" package includes /etc/init.d/resolver which
>   generates /run/resolv.conf from /run/resolver/interface/*
>   and does a run-parts on /etc/resolver/update.d/
...
> * Modified resolver package depends on the latter versions
>   of the networking daemon packages and ifupdown.  On
>   installation, optionally changes /etc/resolv.conf into a
>   symlink to /run/resolv.conf

If we're going to have /run/resolver, why not use /run/resolver/resolv.conf?  
We're making all of these nice, clean new directories, and already kludging 
them up.

Just a minor nit-pick.  This FHS-remodeling business is serious stuff...

 - Keegan

Re: Upcoming removal of orphaned packages

[Andreas Tille]

On Mon, 14 Apr 2003, Martin Schulze wrote:

> Andreas Tille wrote:
> > > mpsql -- A graphical frontend for PostgreSQL [#89957]
> > >   * Orphaned 755 days ago
> > It would be great if someone would step in here.  Graphical frontends to
> > PostgreSQL are quite rare.
>
> It's non-free.  However, Erik Tews fixed the package so it has proper
> build dependencies and after a rebuild the package installs again.
> I've just uploaded the package.
>
> Is there no GTK based SQL monitor for PostgreSQL?  I can't believe
> that the non-free mpsql is the only graphical one.
I can't believe to, but it seems to be so.  There wwas some rumor
that the nice VB-tool would be ported to Linux ...

Kind regards

 Andreas.

--
Mankind must put an end to war before war puts an end to mankind.
John F. Kennedy

multiarchitecture binaries - technical obstacles?

[Barak Pearlmutter]

Years ago, NeXT modified GCC and the rest of the GNU tools to allow
them to produce multi-architecture binaries, so that a single binary
executable could run on both 68k and i386 platforms.  They also had a
tool that could strip out hunks for unwanted architectures.

Maybe that code has decayed, and maybe it had problems ... but it sure
would be nice if it could be resurrected and used by us, so that
Debian became able to produce multiplatform .deb containing such
multi-architecture executables.  Here are a few potential benefits: it
would reduce the total volume of the archive; eliminate separate
i386/Pentium/686/MMX-optimized packages; reduce the burden on the
autobuilders; reduce cross-architecture version-skew; catch
cross-architecture compilation problems earlier; ensure widespread
availability of binary packages for multiple architectures; make the
upcoming deployment of competing 64-bit CPUs from Intel and AMD less
painful for our users; and be a unique feather in Debian's cap.

I'm hoping that people familiar with the tool chain could share
something about the status of those old multi-architecture features,
and how much of a hassle (or of an impossibility) it might be to get
them working.

Re: Why is only the latest unstable package considered for testing?

[Bob Proulx]

Sven Luther wrote:
> BTW, do you know if uploading a package to testing-update will be
> considered by the testing scripts if the unstable version is a new
> version and/or too buggy and such ? This would be a neat way to
> rebuilding a testing package which is holding back huge amount of other
> packages and just needs a rebuild, but the unstable version is not
> considered for this, since it depends on a huge amount of other (broken)
> packages.

To the best of my knowledge there are no autobuilders for testing.
The autobuilders use unstable.  Therefore in order to accomplish what
you suggest one would need to manually build on all of the Debian
supported architectures using testing or stable and then upload the
binary builds for all architectures.  And there may be other gotchas
too.

Bob


pgpt9DAnGJQvX.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Upcoming removal of orphaned packages

[Jérôme Marant]

Andreas Tille <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Mon, 14 Apr 2003, Martin Schulze wrote:
>
>> Andreas Tille wrote:
>> > > mpsql -- A graphical frontend for PostgreSQL [#89957]
>> > >   * Orphaned 755 days ago
>> > It would be great if someone would step in here.  Graphical frontends to
>> > PostgreSQL are quite rare.
>>
>> It's non-free.  However, Erik Tews fixed the package so it has proper
>> build dependencies and after a rebuild the package installs again.
>> I've just uploaded the package.
>>
>> Is there no GTK based SQL monitor for PostgreSQL?  I can't believe
>> that the non-free mpsql is the only graphical one.
> I can't believe to, but it seems to be so.  There wwas some rumor
> that the nice VB-tool would be ported to Linux ...

What about Tora?

-- 
Jérôme Marant

http://marant.org

Re: Upcoming removal of orphaned packages

[Georges Khaznadar]

There is a nice graphical front-end to Postgresql, in the non-US
section :

gk:~$ apt-cache show pgaccess| grep -A 100 Description
Description: Tk/Tcl interface to PostgreSQL
 A Tk/Tcl program for X that provides a front-end to PostgreSQL.  It can be
 used to generate and store queries, views, reports and forms.
 .
 The PostgreSQL database may be local or on a remote machine.
Task: database-server

Package: pgaccess
Status: install ok installed
Priority: optional
Section: non-US
Installed-Size: 1524
Maintainer: Oliver Elphick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Source: postgresql
Version: 7.2.1-2woody2
Depends: libpgtcl (>= 7.1)
Description: Tk/Tcl front-end for PostgreSQL database
 A Tk/Tcl program for X that provides a front-end to PostgreSQL.  It can be
 used to generate and store queries, views and new forms.


Andreas Tille a écrit :
> On Mon, 14 Apr 2003, Martin Schulze wrote:
> 
> > Andreas Tille wrote:
> > > > mpsql -- A graphical frontend for PostgreSQL [#89957]
> > > >   * Orphaned 755 days ago
> > > It would be great if someone would step in here.  Graphical frontends to
> > > PostgreSQL are quite rare.
> >
> > It's non-free.  However, Erik Tews fixed the package so it has proper
> > build dependencies and after a rebuild the package installs again.
> > I've just uploaded the package.
> >
> > Is there no GTK based SQL monitor for PostgreSQL?  I can't believe
> > that the non-free mpsql is the only graphical one.
> I can't believe to, but it seems to be so.  There wwas some rumor
> that the nice VB-tool would be ported to Linux ...

Re: Nameserver-pushing mechanism

[Thomas Hood]

On Mon, 2003-04-14 at 20:08, Keegan Quinn wrote:
> If we're going to have /run/resolver, why not use /run/resolver/resolv.conf?  

Fine with me.  Any objections?

-- 
Thomas Hood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: Maintainers with excessive old RC bugs

[Andrew Suffield]

Figures, there was a bug inherited from the original script that could
(semi-randomly) assign packages to the old maintainer if they were
adopted since potato. I have also filtered out packages which have
been removed from unstable but are still present in older suites. That
knocks the following people out of the list (or at least below the
threshold I am using):

[Sorted alphabetically]

Jefferson E Noxon ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Kyle McMartin ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Maurizio Boriani ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Michael Alan Dorman ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Mika Fischer ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Raphael Bossek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Rob Tillotson ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Vaidhyanathan G Mayilrangam ([EMAIL PROTECTED])

And introduces the people who adopted the offending packages:

Adam Majer ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Carlos Laviola ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
David M . Zendzian ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Jeff Bailey ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Martin Butterweck ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Pascal Hakim ([EMAIL PROTECTED])

In addition, these people had already fixed their stuff and dropped
off the list when I took the second sample (congratulations, you get a
cookie):

Jonas Smedegaard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Josip Rodin ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Siggi Langauf ([EMAIL PROTECTED])

[It's possible some of the people in the first list should have been
in this one, I didn't check too hard]

Christopher L Cheney ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) gets an honourable mention
as well for trying, even if the huge pile of KDE bugs has only been
reduced and not eliminated.

Here's the new list. The maintainer addresses should always match up
with the BTS now:

Kai Henningsen ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Thomas Schoepf ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Akira Yamada ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Mark W Eichin ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Branden Robinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Daniel Burrows ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Martin Schulze ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Rob Browning ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Barak Pearlmutter ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Guenter Geiger ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Piotr Roszatycki ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Carlos Laviola ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Richard Kreckel ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Norbert Veber ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Masato Taruishi ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Christopher L Cheney ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Takashi Okamoto ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Martin Butterweck ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Matt Taggart ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
David Coe ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Takuo Kitame ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Mark Purcell ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Olaf Stetzer ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Zephaniah E Hull ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Daniel Glassey ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
David M Zendzian ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Ryuichi Arafune ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Patrick Patterson ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Viral Shah ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Yann Dirson ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Matthew Wilcox ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Paul Hedderly ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Josef Spillner ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
William Lee Irwin III ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Martin Mitchell ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Lamont Jones ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Greg Olszewski ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Santiago Garcia Mantinan ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Pavel Tcholakov ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Pawel Wiecek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Adrian Bridgett ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Kihyeon Seo ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Sam "Eddie" Couter ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Paul Slootman ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Marcelo Magallon ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Jens Schmalzing ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Dale Scheetz ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Shaun Jackman ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Dima Barsky ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Mark Johnson ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Pablo Baena ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Federico Di Gregorio ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Mark Howard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Petr Cech ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Jan-Hendrik Palic ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Stephen Zander ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Peter Gervai ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Pascal Hakim ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Jeremy T Bouse ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Nils Rennebarth ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Ryszard Lach ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Joerg Jaspert ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Adam Majer ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Jeff Bailey ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Ed Boraas ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Michael Stone ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Stefan Hornburg ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Jules Bean ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Scott M Dier ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
James R Van Zandt ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Mikael Andersson ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Klaus Knopper ([EMAIL PROTECTED])

-- 
  .''`.  ** Debian GNU/Linux ** | Andrew Suffield
 : :' :  http://www.debian.org/ | Dept. of Computing,
 `. `'  | Imperial College,
   `- -><-  | London, UK


pgpZMQbYY7nUl.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Why is only the latest unstable package considered for testing?

[Sven Luther]

On Mon, Apr 14, 2003 at 01:44:40PM -0600, Bob Proulx wrote:
> Sven Luther wrote:
> > BTW, do you know if uploading a package to testing-update will be
> > considered by the testing scripts if the unstable version is a new
> > version and/or too buggy and such ? This would be a neat way to
> > rebuilding a testing package which is holding back huge amount of other
> > packages and just needs a rebuild, but the unstable version is not
> > considered for this, since it depends on a huge amount of other (broken)
> > packages.
> 
> To the best of my knowledge there are no autobuilders for testing.
> The autobuilders use unstable.  Therefore in order to accomplish what
> you suggest one would need to manually build on all of the Debian
> supported architectures using testing or stable and then upload the
> binary builds for all architectures.  And there may be other gotchas
> too.

Yes, but it is better than having our packages hold back by libvorbis
and the 105 or so packages that will be breaken by its inclusion in
testing, many of them have big RC bugs and such, and will not be
includable in testing for a long time. 

I feel a bit discouraged by this, we have held a mini-freeze of the
ocaml packages since december and more seriously since the new libc6
entered testing, and all this for nothing. And any further work on these
packages is blocked until we either abandon this mini-freeze. I believe,
but i have really no way to be sure, that the removal of two packages
from testing will allow 40 or so other packages from sid to enter
testing, and we, the ocaml debian packagers, have decided that this was
the best course of action, both for us and for our users (which mostly
use Stefano's woody backport anyway, and often complain about the
situation). But i didn't even get a reply to the already 2 weeks old bug
for the removal of those packages.

How well, there is always other things to work on, ...

(going back to see of i could best go about to transform the X cvs
bi-monthly snapshots into debian packages).

Friendly,

Sven Luther

Re: multiarchitecture binaries - technical obstacles?

[Elladan]

Couldn't this be done more easily just by having the debian packages be
multi-arch bundles where an executable for each platform is included?
Why is it necessary to pack them all into the same elf file and then
strip that later?

It's not really a good idea to modify the files produced by a binary
package after install anyway, since that thwarts security/administation
measures like hashing a file against the version in the source package
to verify that it's correct.

Doing this might reduce the archive size, but it would increase
bandwidth use on the mirrors, since either way the packages would be
bigger.

-J

On Mon, Apr 14, 2003 at 01:18:20PM -0600, Barak Pearlmutter wrote:
> Years ago, NeXT modified GCC and the rest of the GNU tools to allow
> them to produce multi-architecture binaries, so that a single binary
> executable could run on both 68k and i386 platforms.  They also had a
> tool that could strip out hunks for unwanted architectures.
> 
> Maybe that code has decayed, and maybe it had problems ... but it sure
> would be nice if it could be resurrected and used by us, so that
> Debian became able to produce multiplatform .deb containing such
> multi-architecture executables.  Here are a few potential benefits: it
> would reduce the total volume of the archive; eliminate separate
> i386/Pentium/686/MMX-optimized packages; reduce the burden on the
> autobuilders; reduce cross-architecture version-skew; catch
> cross-architecture compilation problems earlier; ensure widespread
> availability of binary packages for multiple architectures; make the
> upcoming deployment of competing 64-bit CPUs from Intel and AMD less
> painful for our users; and be a unique feather in Debian's cap.
> 
> I'm hoping that people familiar with the tool chain could share
> something about the status of those old multi-architecture features,
> and how much of a hassle (or of an impossibility) it might be to get
> them working.
> 
> 
> -- 
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: curl, testing and gcc-3.2 (?) (was Re: Debian curl package depends on gcc-3.2?)

[Matthias Klose]

Matthias Urlichs writes:

> Maybe it's time to force gcc-3.2 into testing..?

No, it should go in after binutils gets into testing. 

Re: Why is only the latest unstable package considered for testing?

[Michael Banck]

On Mon, Apr 14, 2003 at 10:29:05PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> Yes, but it is better than having our packages hold back by libvorbis
> and the 105 or so packages that will be breaken by its inclusion in
> testing, many of them have big RC bugs and such, and will not be
> includable in testing for a long time. 

Could you please back your figures up with hard data? I was looking for
libvorbis stuff to NMU and had a time finding some. clanlib-vorbis still
needs porting though. I doubt we are talking about '105' packages
though.

And in the end, those packages are *already* included in testing, no?
Just a/some version(s) behind.


cheers,

Michael

Re: Maintainers with excessive old RC bugs

[Andrew Suffield]

On Mon, Apr 14, 2003 at 09:22:45PM +0100, Andrew Suffield wrote:
> And introduces the people who adopted the offending packages:

> Martin Butterweck ([EMAIL PROTECTED])

Or not; I edited him out manually (pingus, which is orphaned and being
adopted very slowly) the first time around and forgot to do the same
to the second list before I diffed them.

-- 
  .''`.  ** Debian GNU/Linux ** | Andrew Suffield
 : :' :  http://www.debian.org/ | Dept. of Computing,
 `. `'  | Imperial College,
   `- -><-  | London, UK


pgpk7u2Rc0Tts.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: multiarchitecture binaries - technical obstacles?

[Michael Banck]

On Mon, Apr 14, 2003 at 02:00:33PM -0700, Elladan wrote:
> Couldn't this be done more easily just by having the debian packages be
> multi-arch bundles where an executable for each platform is included?

And that would solve/help what exactly? *I* don't have a s/390 at home
to produce such packages. And I'm sure people don't want to wait for all
buildds even for unstable...

Michael

Re: curl, testing and gcc-3.2 (?) (was Re: Debian curl package depends on gcc-3.2?)

[Björn Stenberg]

Anthony Towns wrote:
> You'll find it does on arm and probably one or two other architectures,
> but in particular:
> 
> Package: libcurl2
> Architecture: arm
> Version: 7.10.4-1
> Depends: libc6 (>= 2.3.1-1), libgcc1 (>= 1:3.2.3-0pre6), ...

Sorry for being a pain, but how are these dependencies assigned?

libgcc1 is already in both testing and stable. How is it decided that
libcurl2 requires this specific version? It appears neither the package
maintainer nor the upstream author made this decision (or even knew about it).

Also, the arm build log for arm contains the following line:

checking whether to use libgcc... no

-- 
Björn

Re: ocaml compiled binaries and rpath

[Joel Baker]

On Fri, Apr 11, 2003 at 11:11:17AM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 10, 2003 at 10:56:34PM +0200, Martin Pitt wrote:
> > lintian says:
> > 
> > W: planets: binary-or-shlib-defines-rpath ./usr/bin/planets
> > /usr/lib:/usr/X11R6/lib
> > N:
> > N:   The binary or shared library defines the `RPATH'. Usually this is a
> > N:   bad thing. Most likely you will find a Makefile with a line like:
> > N:   gcc test.o -o test -Wl,--rpath
> > N:   or
> > N:   gcc test.o -o test -R/usr/local/lib
> > N:   Please contact debian-devel@lists.debian.org if you have questions
> > N:   about this.
> 
> Just ignore it or add a override.

Any reason not to Build-Depend: chrpath, and do 'chrpath --delete' on
the result?
-- 
Joel Baker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


pgpoDdFlmOlfG.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: curl, testing and gcc-3.2 (?) (was Re: Debian curl package depends on gcc-3.2?)

[Henrique de Moraes Holschuh]

On Tue, 15 Apr 2003, Björn Stenberg wrote:
> > Package: libcurl2
> > Architecture: arm
> > Version: 7.10.4-1
> > Depends: libc6 (>= 2.3.1-1), libgcc1 (>= 1:3.2.3-0pre6), ...
> 
> Sorry for being a pain, but how are these dependencies assigned?

Through the shlibdeps system. Probably, the libgcc and libc packages
decided that on ARM they should have those versioned dependencies.  The
libcurl2 package needs not do anything by itself to pick them up.

> Also, the arm build log for arm contains the following line:
> 
> checking whether to use libgcc... no

Then find out why something in the package linked to libgcc in
ARM.  And if nothing did...

-- 
  "One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
  them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
  where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
  Henrique Holschuh

Re: /run and read-only /etc

[Joel Baker]

On Thu, Apr 10, 2003 at 07:27:42PM -0400, Jeremy Jackson wrote:
> Overall I think it is wonderful to see support for read-only root being
> worked on.
> 
> On Wed, 2003-04-09 at 15:41, Matthew Garrett wrote:
> > Jeremy Jackson wrote:
> > 
> > (doing this with bind mounts)
> > 
> > >2.2 kernels are out though.
> > 
> > As are BSDs. I have no idea whether the Hurd supports bind mounting.
> > 
> Can it be assumed that all systems that may use this support ramdisks?  
> What other schemes would allow a read-only root?  Mounting a small fs on
> /run (although I hope it's not in the root directory)?

I think all of the BSDs currently in porting support some concept that
is functionally equivalent to a ramdisk. Can't say anything useful about
the Hurd.
-- 
Joel Baker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


pgpzUc7Rh08Jq.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Topics for Debian conferences?

[Jonathan Oxer]

On Tue, 2003-04-15 at 01:44, Martin Schulze wrote:
> With two Debian conferences ([1] [2]) taking place this year, I wonder
> which topics other developers would like to see covered by the talks
> and/or workshops held within.

Although it hasn't yet been announced, there's also the Debian Mini-Conf
at LCA2004 next January, for which I'll be organising some speakers.
That makes me very interested in responses to this question, so
please...

> (These events in particular should be discussed on the
> debian-events-eu list and not on debian-devel.)

 ...also CC me on any responses that don't go to debian-devel.

Cheers

Jonathan


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: Bug#150411: Release-critical Bugreport for April 4, 2003

[Joel Baker]

[ I host the xshipwars upstream mailing lists... ]

On Fri, Apr 11, 2003 at 11:32:04AM -0500, Adam Majer wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 11, 2003 at 10:27:06AM +0100, Colin Watson wrote:
> > On Fri, Apr 11, 2003 at 09:06:29AM +0200, Andreas Tille wrote:
> > > On Fri, 4 Apr 2003, BugScan reporter wrote:
> > > > Package: xshipwars-server (debian/main)
> > > > Maintainer: Adam Majer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >   150411 [P  ] xshipwars-server: POSIX shell incompatibilities
> > > >   173966 [   ] xshipwars-server: won't uninstall unless the server 
> > > > is running!
> > > 
> > > This package has is taged patch to one bug and in fact includes another
> > > patch in the text of the other bug which is tagged pending.  Moreover
> > > it contains an offer from Colin Watson to sponsor the package from
> > > half a year ago.  I guess someone should hijack the package.
> 
> Yo, what's the dillio? At least *ask* me if I'm still here! :)
> 
> Both bugs are trivial and xshipwars wouldn't be going anywhere anyway
> because lijsw has to get fixed (it is a C library compiled as
> C++ library - for why look at the orig.tar.gz files).
> 
> If you want to hijac a package, look at some of the O: packages
> that need to get picked up.
> 
> > Hold it for a bit, please. I've been talking to the maintainer privately
> > for the last week. An upload is waiting until the new libjsw is
> > accepted.
> 
> As he said :)

You're a braver soul than I. I started a packaging attempt on it once (long
ago), and... well... let's just say I know the insides of the code, and I
have known the primary author since well before the project existed, and
I will never, ever try to package it again as long as she's the primary
author...

(In other words, I'm vouching to anyone who wonders that the code is enough
to drive anyone seriously insane, and making it sane is no easy task.)
-- 
Joel Baker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


pgps8O3JmKrpW.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: multiarchitecture binaries - technical obstacles?

[Darren Salt]

I demand that Michael Banck may or may not have written...

> On Mon, Apr 14, 2003 at 02:00:33PM -0700, Elladan wrote:
>> Couldn't this be done more easily just by having the debian packages be
>> multi-arch bundles where an executable for each platform is included?

> And that would solve/help what exactly? *I* don't have a s/390 at home to
> produce such packages. And I'm sure people don't want to wait for all
> buildds even for unstable...

Not to mention download times. Here I am, stuck with a 56K modem...

-- 
| Darren Salt   | nr. Ashington, | linux (or ds) at
| woody, sarge, | Northumberland | youmustbejoking
| RISC OS   | Toon Army  | demon co uk
|   Retrocomputing: a PC card in a Risc PC

And now, excuse me while I interrupt myself.

Re: /usr/{share/man,bin} vs /usr/X11R6/{man,bin} (policy 12.8.7)

[Daniel Martin]

"John H. Robinson, IV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> all the footnote says is that imake Does The Right Thing, which is why
> it is exempted.

See, now I read it as "imake doesn't quite do the right thing, really,
but it's imake, so we'll let it slide - fixing it everywhere is
officially deemed not worth the hassle"

Re: Work-needing packages report for Apr 11, 2003

[Stephen Zander]

> "Andrew" == Andrew Suffield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> cadaver
Andrew> You get ten of these to the penny.

Actually, cadaver shouldn't be on that list.  The current maintainer
is continuing to support it and doesn't want to give it up unless
someone else ports it to GnuTLS (I asked).

-- 
Stephen

"A duck!"

Re: >2000 packages still waiting to enter testing, > 1500 over age

[Paul Hampson]

On Wed, Apr 09, 2003 at 08:30:42PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 09, 2003 at 05:59:26PM +0200, Michael Banck wrote:
> > On Wed, Apr 09, 2003 at 04:40:31PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> > > depth, i cannot help all that much about it, and libvorbis is a valid
> > > candidate, but his installation would break 107 or so packages in
> > > testing, and i have not really the intention to check by hand all those
> > > 107 packages. I believe it is just some packages that need to be rebuilt
> > > due to the libvorbis0a thingy, not sure though. I already checked the
> > > primary dependencies of all our packages (around 40) by hand, which
> > 
> > apt-cache showpkg libvorbis0 prints out just a couple of packages. Is
> 
> You have to look at the update_output.txt file, it shows :
> 
> * alpha: adonthell, alsaplayer, alsaplayer-alsa, alsaplayer-common,
> * alsaplayer-esd, alsaplayer-gtk, alsaplayer-nas, alsaplayer-oss,
> * alsaplayer-text, amoeba, artsbuilder, audacity, bitcollider-plugins,
> * black-box, brahms, bugsquish, bumprace, cantus, castle-combat, chromium,
> * circuslinux, clanlib-dev, clanlib-vorbis, crimson, criticalmass, csmash,
> * defendguin, easytag, enigma, fags, frozen-bubble, gcompris, gemdropx,
> * gjay, gl-117, gltron, gqmpeg, gtoaster, heroes-sdl, icebreaker, jack,
> * jumpnbump, kdebase-audiolibs, kdebase-dev, kdemultimedia-dev, kreatecd,
> * langband-zterm, lbreakout2, lgeneral, libarts-mpeglib, libopenal-dev,
> * libopenal0, libsdl-mixer1.2, libsdl-mixer1.2-dev, libsdl-ocaml,
> * libsdl-ocaml-dev, libsdl-perl, libsdl-ruby, libxine-dev, libxine0,
> * ltris, madbomber, mangoquest, mirrormagic, moon-lander, mp3blaster,
> * mp3c, mp3kult, mpeglib, noatun, noatun-plugins, penguin-command, prboom,
> * pygame, python-pyvorbis, race, ripperx, rockdodger, rocks-n-diamonds,
> * saytime, simplecdrx, sinek, sox, sox-dev, sweep, terminatorx, timidity,
> * toppler, tuxpaint, tuxpuck, tuxracer, tuxtype, vectoroids, vegastrike,
> * vorbis-tools, vorbisgain, vsound, xine-ui, zinf, zinf-extras,
> * zinf-plugin-alsa, zinf-plugin-esound

Is this with libvorbis being 'recur'd by the testing script? If I read
the documentation correctly, then:
libvorbis will be rejected because it breaks everything that depends on
libvorbis0.
Everything that now depends on libvorbis0a will be rejected because
their dependancies cannot be met...

I guess someone has to add a hint to the testing script to recur over
libvorbis and see if upgrading it would mean less breakage than
currently exists... Which is probably true if all the packages which
depend on it are "valid candidates".

If libvorbis is 'recur'd unsuccessfully, then you'll get a complete list
of the packages in testing which would be broken by libvorbis and which
can't be updated to a version that depends on libvorbis0a. On _all_
arches, not just one.

Handy, eh?

-- 
---
Paul "TBBle" Hampson, MCSE
6th year CompSci/Asian Studies student, ANU
The Boss, Bubblesworth Pty Ltd (ABN: 51 095 284 361)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Of course Pacman didn't influence us as kids. If it did,
we'd be running around in darkened rooms, popping pills and
listening to repetitive music.
 -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989

This email is licensed to the recipient for non-commercial
use, duplication and distribution.
---


pgpdAUTe1CYYC.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: curl, testing and gcc-3.2 (?) (was Re: Debian curl package depends on gcc-3.2?)

[Daniel Jacobowitz]

On Mon, Apr 14, 2003 at 04:25:52PM +0100, Colin Watson wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 14, 2003 at 03:56:48PM +0200, Domenico Andreoli wrote:
> > i don't really know where that gcc-3.2 is coming from. as you can see
> > curl doesn't depend on it explicitly.
> 
> libcurl2 and libcurl2-dbg depend on libgcc1 on arm. libgcc1 supplies
> certain parts of the C runtime. There isn't really anything package
> maintainers can do about this.

FYI, that's not quite correct.  I spoke to Phil about this on IRC
today; the excessive libgcc1 dependencies on ARM are a compiler bug,
and I sent him the patch for it.  This should be consistent with other
architectures.

Same for any other architecture which has this problem.

-- 
Daniel Jacobowitz
MontaVista Software Debian GNU/Linux Developer

Re: Maintainers with excessive old RC bugs

[Stephen Zander]

> "Colin" == Colin Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Colin> Assuming you're <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, you have
Colin> four open release-critical bugs, none of which have had any
Colin> response, and three of which have been open since October.

Nope, that's a screwup on my part.  The bugs belong to me.
-- 
Stephen

"Farcical aquatic ceremonies are no basis for a system of government!"

Re: curl, testing and gcc-3.2 (?)

[Brian Nelson]

Matthias Klose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Matthias Urlichs writes:
>
>> Maybe it's time to force gcc-3.2 into testing..?
>
> No, it should go in after binutils gets into testing. 

What has happened to Chris Chimelis?  He seems to be missing since early
February, and the last 6 uploads of binutils have been NMUs.  The lack
of maintenance has been keeping binutils out of testing for a while now.

-- 
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less
than half of you half as well as you deserve.


pgpVnvkFMR8p0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Any active maintainers using mod_perl?

[Daniel Jacobowitz]

It's been a few years since I've actually run a web site which uses
libapache-mod-perl or apache-perl.  If there's anyone more interested than I
in maintaining these packages, I'd be glad to pass them on.

They're in pretty good shape; there's one mysterious apache-perl bug which
shouldn't be too hard to track down, and a couple of bugs that want more
automatic configuration when libapache-mod-perl is installed that I'm not
sure I agree with.  Also one bug for uninstalling libapache-mod-perl, but
I'll fix that tonight.

-- 
Daniel Jacobowitz
MontaVista Software Debian GNU/Linux Developer