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Re: free alternative to povray?

[Brian May]

On Sat, Nov 30, 2002 at 06:02:01PM -0800, Vonsur Kcin wrote:
> For a raytracer that DOES use the same file format as Povray, I'd
> recommend zrcube. It isn't packaged yet, but looks very nice overall,
> and is more advanced than Povray in some ways, especially in that it
> adds radiosity for realistic lighting. 
> 
> http://zrcube.sf.net/

Looks good.

> Incidently, the other raytracer mentioned in this thread, yafray, has
> a plugin for Blender to export to the Yafray format on their site. Its
> pretty simplistic, but its something. Yafray uses an XML-based format.
> Yafray boasts some really outstanding radiosity output. Yafray is also
> not packaged.
> 
> http://www.coala.uniovi.es/~jandro/noname

That webpage no longer seems to exist anymore (file not
found error). Has it moved?
-- 
Brian May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: free alternative to povray?

[Vonsur Kcin]

On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 06:48:42PM +1100, Brian May wrote:
> > Incidently, the other raytracer mentioned in this thread, yafray, has
> > a plugin for Blender to export to the Yafray format on their site. Its
> > pretty simplistic, but its something. Yafray uses an XML-based format.
> > Yafray boasts some really outstanding radiosity output. Yafray is also
> > not packaged.
> > 
> > http://www.coala.uniovi.es/~jandro/noname
> 
> That webpage no longer seems to exist anymore (file not
> found error). Has it moved?

Odd. I'm not sure, it was working the day before yesterday, but I have
confirmed that it seems to be dead now. Unfortunate. Maybe it is
moving or something.

-- 
-><- Nick Rusnov
-><- http://nick.industrialmeats.com
-><- [EMAIL PROTECTED]/[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Re: free alternative to povray?

[Brian May]

On Sat, Nov 30, 2002 at 06:02:01PM -0800, Vonsur Kcin wrote:
> Well, the best examples are in the form of tutorials, which abound
> online. Its not really meaningful to have the files themselves, when
> in blender's case its the process that is important.

I seem to be unable to access http://www.blender.nl/>,
I keep getting timeout errors.

Is anyone else able to access this site?
-- 
Brian May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: free alternative to povray?

[Jérôme Marant]

Brian May wrote:
On Sat, Nov 30, 2002 at 06:02:01PM -0800, Vonsur Kcin wrote:
 

Well, the best examples are in the form of tutorials, which abound
online. Its not really meaningful to have the files themselves, when
in blender's case its the process that is important.
   

I seem to be unable to access http://www.blender.nl/>,
I keep getting timeout errors.
Is anyone else able to access this site?
 

http;//www.blender.org must be the official site now.
JM.

Re: Non-DFSG-free package in main

[Hamish Moffatt]

On Mon, Dec 02, 2002 at 01:19:47PM -0500, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> I just noticed that 'heyu' is non-free, at least according to bug #149128. 
> Shouldn't this bug be upgraded to serious, at least? (We shouldn't be
> shipping it in sarge if it's non-free.)

Why not move it to non-free? Or you defining sarge as main only?
We haven't voted to remove non-free yet.

Hamish
-- 
Hamish Moffatt VK3SB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: Fwd: Please confirm your message

[Andreas Metzler]

Brian May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 10:22:32AM +1300, Corrin Lakeland wrote:
>> Personally I think bayesian based spam filters are a godsend.  They're a bit 
>> naive in places such as being unigram or bigram based, but that'll probably 
>> get fixed in version two.  And already they are still amazingly good.

> Are these packaged for Debian?
[...]

Yes, at least bogofilter is available and I've read an ITP for bmf
here, too.
  cu andreas

Re: Non-DFSG-free package in main

[Peter Mathiasson]

On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 07:47:11PM +1100, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 02, 2002 at 01:19:47PM -0500, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> > I just noticed that 'heyu' is non-free, at least according to bug #149128. 
> > Shouldn't this bug be upgraded to serious, at least? (We shouldn't be
> > shipping it in sarge if it's non-free.)
> 
> Why not move it to non-free? Or you defining sarge as main only?
> We haven't voted to remove non-free yet.

I thought non-free wasn't part of Debian.

-- 
Peter Mathiasson, peter at mathiasson dot nu, http://www.mathiasson.nu
GPG Fingerprint: A9A7 F8F6 9821 F415 B066 77F1 7FF5 C2E6 7BF2 F228


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debian-devel@lists.debian.org

[Robert Nagy]

Package: wnpp
Version: unavailable; reported 2002-12-03
Severity: wishlist

* Package name: kernel-patch-sensors
  Version : 2.6.5
  Upstream Author : The Lm_sensors Group <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://www2.lm-sensors.nu/~lm78/
* License : GPL
  Description : Lm-sensors is a hardware health monitoring package for 
Linux (kernel patch)

(Include the long description here.)

I've created the patches on my own for 2.4.19 and 2.4.20 from the
lm-sensors-source package.
This patch allow you patch you kernel with lm_sensors.
This package Depends on kernel-patch-i2c. So if I don't post another ITP
about that. If it is needed please mail me immediatly.

You can downolad them from:
deb http://ers.linuxforum.hu/debian/ ./
deb-src http://ers.linuxforum.hu/debian/ ./

-- System Information:
Debian Release: testing/unstable
Architecture: i386
Kernel: Linux thuglife.homelinux.org 2.4.19 #4 Fri Nov 29 21:45:51 CET 2002 i686
Locale: LANG=en_US, LC_CTYPE=en_US

bill gates linux

[spiratec]

I am not at totally stupid
person.I have written a 60k
byte qbasic application program.
I have watched with interest over
the past few years the development
of Linux.I believe it will really
never go very far until someone
removes the hopelessly complex web
of knowledge required to use the
system.
What is required is in effect a
Windows,xx or DOS based SETUP.EXE
program that would permanently
install Linux on ones hard drive
including a Partition to allow
dual Windows,XX and Linux to
coexist together.

Re: Non-DFSG-free package in main

[Hamish Moffatt]

On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 10:20:42AM +0100, Peter Mathiasson wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 07:47:11PM +1100, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
> > On Mon, Dec 02, 2002 at 01:19:47PM -0500, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> > > I just noticed that 'heyu' is non-free, at least according to bug 
> > > #149128. 
> > > Shouldn't this bug be upgraded to serious, at least? (We shouldn't be
> > > shipping it in sarge if it's non-free.)
> > 
> > Why not move it to non-free? Or you defining sarge as main only?
> > We haven't voted to remove non-free yet.
> 
> I thought non-free wasn't part of Debian.

It isn't, but that doesn't mean it isn't part of sarge.

Hamish
-- 
Hamish Moffatt VK3SB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: Fwd: Please confirm your message

[Gerrit Pape]

On Mon, Dec 02, 2002 at 04:58:48PM +0100, Russell Coker wrote:
> Also there's the issue of two people having such filters trying to
> communicate with each other.

This, of course, is taken care of, see the documentation if you are
interested.

> NB  You can't just white-list an address when you send mail to it as
> often people don't use the same From: address to reply as they
> advertise when soliciting email (think about [EMAIL PROTECTED] addresses
> and vanity domains).

Yes. But one can add a Reply-To header with a private mail address that
doesn't require confirmation. On public discussions, one can add a
Mail-Followup-To header to keep answers in the public where they belong
imho.  If there is open source, there should be open development, no need
keep such things private.  There are public discussion resources
available for all of my open software.

Gerrit.

Re: Fwd: Please confirm your message

[Gerrit Pape]

On Mon, Dec 02, 2002 at 05:31:11PM +0100, Russell Coker wrote:
> On Mon, 2 Dec 2002 17:18, Stephen Zander wrote:
> > The above is based on the false premise that those who send spam are
> > incapable of sending it with (forged) real email addresses.  They
> > already have lots of them to choose from.

This is an existing and well known problem of the current internet mail
infrastructure. Yes, envelope senders and headers can be forged.

> Of course such a spam filter will stop such spam at the cost of doubly 
> spamming innocent people who have their addresses forged.
Doubly? I cannot follow.

> It's very anti-social, zero sum game stuff.

Come on, no need to especially blame my mail handling program.  In
another mail you wrote, you don't deliver spam to /dev/null but bounce
it. Where do you think the bounce will end up?  Nothing else is doing my
software, sending a bounce to the envelope sender; there is no
difference.

Gerrit.

Re: Fwd: Please confirm your message

[Gerrit Pape]

On Mon, Dec 02, 2002 at 06:50:14PM +, Matthew Garrett wrote:
> In order to avoid this, spammers merely have to use a forged from
> address that will generate an automatic response. There's no shortage of
> those. [EMAIL PROTECTED] springs to mind, and I have no doubt that
> there are many others. The spammers can therefore trivially circumvent

Autoresponders, bouncers, and other mail handling programs use the
envelope sender address, not an address found in any header of the mail.
I doubt that any abuse@ address replies to a bounce message.  This is no
problem.

Gerrit.

Re: Fwd: Please confirm your message

[Gerrit Pape]

On Mon, Dec 02, 2002 at 11:01:15AM -0500, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 02, 2002 at 04:39:30PM +0100, Jan Niehusmann wrote:
> > Time will tell. I fear that some day, the only way to use email
> > productively is to block all email with invalid sender adresses. And
> > I don't know a way do valdiate a (not yet known) address but to try
> > it and send a reply.  If you combine that with some autoresponders
> > on both ends, no human interaction would be needed, so annoyance
> > should go down.
> 
> But what if spammers set up autoresponders as well? Just a thought.

They don't.  Spammers don't have (or want to provide) the resources for
mass bounce handling on there mass mailing.  Also, they are not
anonymous anymore when doing this, you then know who is responsible for
the spam or who does provide the resources for spamming.  It is _very_
unlikely that such will happen.

Gerrit.

Re: Bug#171351: RFA: xmlto -- XML-to-any converter

[Stefano Zacchiroli]

On Mon, Dec 02, 2002 at 05:16:20PM -0500, Colin Walters wrote:
> Between stuff like this, and our lack of an XML catalog, I'd say that
> Debian really needs someone skilled in XML technologies to step forward
> and help out.  Is no one out there?

The problem here seems not to be the XML skills, but the tex/sgml ones.

Cheers.

-- 
Stefano Zacchiroli  -  undergraduate student of CS @ Uni. Bologna, Italy
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] | ICQ 33538863 | http://www.cs.unibo.it/~zacchiro
 "I know you believe you understood what you think I said, but I am not
 sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!" -- G.Romney


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Welcome!

[coolbiao]

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Re: Are we losing users to Gentoo?

[Gerfried Fuchs]

* Thomas Bushnell, BSG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002-11-29 10:27]:
> But I use the website.  Here's a questions.  Go to eh redhat site and
> see if you can figure out where to get a complete RedHat CD downloaded
> from the net?

 Uhm, should that have been a statement pro or contra to our page?  I
found it quite easy:

 -) Download link in the top row, righthand side.
 -) "How to Download Red Hat Linux 8.0"
 -) "Download the files you need"
 -) --> Downloading the ISO Images

 Or am I thinking too straight?
Alfie
-- 
"The reason why worry kills more people than work is that more people worry
 than work."
  -- unknown


pgpSk5t16Mksq.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Fwd: Please confirm your message

[Matthew Garrett]

In chiark.mail.debian.devel, you wrote:

>Autoresponders, bouncers, and other mail handling programs use the
>envelope sender address, not an address found in any header of the mail.
>I doubt that any abuse@ address replies to a bounce message.  This is no
>problem.

I find your faith in mail admins... touching.
-- 
Matthew Garrett | [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: bill gates linux

[Amaya]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] dijo:
> What is required is in effect a Windows,xx or DOS based SETUP.EXE
> program that would permanently install Linux on ones hard drive
> including a Partition to allow dual Windows,XX and Linux to coexist
> together.

Just to mention a few Debian-based efforts:
http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/
http://www.progeny.com/
http://www.linex.org/
http://linuxin.paislinux.net/
http://www.hispalinux.es/~rsantos/

There are already improvements in that direction, and more to come.
This is ceirntainly not the list to discuss such a general issue.
Feel free to email me privately.

-- 
   I would rather starve than lose your acceptance
 .''`. My eyes will always show my empty soul
: :' :--- Boy Sets Fire - Cadence
`. `'Proudly running Debian GNU/Linux (Sid + 2.4.19 + Ext3)
  `-www.amayita.com  www.malapecora.com  www.chicasduras.com

Re: bill gates linux

[Russell Coker]

On Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:29, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I am not at totally stupid
> person.I have written a 60k
> byte qbasic application program.

Are these two statements related?

> I have watched with interest over
> the past few years the development
> of Linux.I believe it will really
> never go very far until someone
> removes the hopelessly complex web
> of knowledge required to use the
> system.
> What is required is in effect a
> Windows,xx or DOS based SETUP.EXE
> program that would permanently
> install Linux on ones hard drive
> including a Partition to allow
> dual Windows,XX and Linux to
> coexist together.

OK, I look forward to seeing the SETUP.EXE program you write in qbasic.  Let 
us know when it's ready for us to test.

-- 
http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/   My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages
http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/  Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark
http://www.coker.com.au/postal/Postal SMTP/POP benchmark
http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/  My home page

Re: Fwd: Please confirm your message

[Karsten M. Self]

on Sun, Dec 01, 2002 at 07:19:47PM +0100, Gerrit Pape ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 01, 2002 at 02:35:28PM +0100, Russell Coker wrote:
> > The people who run such stupid filters misunderstand the way the
> > Internet works.
> 
> Maybe you should do a short research on the user of this mail handling
> program before saying such.
> 
> > If you have to send an extra confirmation message every time you send
> > an email to someone you haven't communicated with before then it will
> > increase the number of messages required by at least 50%.  That is an
> > unreasonable burden to place on other people.
> 
> I wrote the software primarily for ezmlm mailing lists, please rethink
> your statement with this precondition.

Here's my problem with such tricks:

They take the personal (and best addressed as a personally-managed)
problem of whitelist generation and offload it to a class of people
who neither particularly care, nor are skilled at, executing it.

As is clear here, the tactic is spectacularly ill-suited to mass
communications, mailing lists in particular.  If I'm posting mail to a
list, WTF should I care what Joe Bumpkiss, or Gerrit Pape, wants to do
with my email?  If s/he signed up for the list, the presumption is that
s/he wants to receive the mail.

Ordinarially[1] I use a set of procmail recipies which filter mail on a
number of criteria.  These include heursitics to detect list mail,
spamassassin, and a set of white and black lists.  With my mailer, it's
trivial to select a message, or a list of messages, and add the sender
to either my white or black list.  Takes a fraction of a second.
Only happens once (and generally only for mail directed to me -- list
mail doesn't need this hoop).[2]

Best of all, my system never reveals itself to the sender at all.  Which
is as it should be.

I roundfile any "prove yourself" requests I receive, and blacklist the
sender.

Peace.



Notes:

1.  System failures mean I'm on a fallback mail system w/o my procmail
support.  Two days of filtering by hand...  I'm going to dig through
backups to get 'em back in place RSN.

2.  The system is based on the Debian spamfilter package, Lars
Wizenius's procmal recipies.  Spamassassin support is simply added
as another rule.  I've added a small script to add an address to a
b/w list.

-- 
Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/
 What Part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
   Geek for hire:  http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html

update_excuses.html

[Noèl Köthe]

Hello,

http://ftp-master.debian.org/testing/update_excuses.html

is the page outdated because of waiting for glibc move to
testing or is there another reason?

thx.

-- 
NoÃl KÃthe

unsuscribe

[javi]

__
Tu correo gratis en UPSEROS http://www.upseros.com

Re: Fwd: Please confirm your message

[Andreas Fuchs]

Today, Stephen Zander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> "Jan" == Jan Niehusmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Jan> Time will tell. I fear that some day, the only way to use
> Jan> email productively is to block all email with invalid sender
> Jan> adresses. And I don't know a way do valdiate a (not yet
> Jan> known) address but to try it and send a reply.  If you
> Jan> combine that with some autoresponders on both ends, no human
> Jan> interaction would be needed, so annoyance should go down.
> 
> The above is based on the false premise that those who send spam are
> incapable of sending it with (forged) real email addresses.  They
> already have lots of them to choose from.

Right. I just thought up a scheme to exploit this, based on the fake
source-IP address approach you find in descriptions of ping-floods.

a) Spammer finds an autoresponder
b) Spammer sends many mails with Reply-To: header chosen from a
   know-to-work address list
c) Reply-To:ed people receive the bounced mail and are annoyed.

So, ones selfishness (by using such spam "filtering" approaches) can be
used against the person running the filter. If the filter is configured
so that it doesn't send the Received: lines, it actually acts as a
pseudo-anonymysing relay.

Thus, my conclusion: These things are evil. Don't use them or somebody
might use them against you, eventually.

-- 
Andreas Fuchs, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED], antifuchs
Hail RMS! Hail Cthulhu! Hail Eris! All hail Discordia!


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Re: Are we losing users to Gentoo?

[Josip Rodin]

On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 11:47:52AM +0100, Gerfried Fuchs wrote:
> > But I use the website.  Here's a questions.  Go to eh redhat site and
> > see if you can figure out where to get a complete RedHat CD downloaded
> > from the net?
> 
>  Uhm, should that have been a statement pro or contra to our page?  I
> found it quite easy:
> 
>  -) Download link in the top row, righthand side.
>  -) "How to Download Red Hat Linux 8.0"
>  -) "Download the files you need"
>  -) --> Downloading the ISO Images
> 
>  Or am I thinking too straight?

Heh. Last time I tried it wasn't too hard, this is pretty easy.

* "Getting Debian" near the beginning of the top row
* "make a CD set yourself" in the middle
* "Fetch full CD images"
* Official CD images of the "stable" release - see below

So now we're even at least as far as those links are concerned.

The last item, OTOH, still needs work both at redhat.com and debian.org.
They have a single link to ftp://ftp.redhat.com/ and we have a bunch of
links elsewhere; both of these approaches, even without implementation bugs,
have inherent problems.

-- 
 2. That which causes joy or happiness.

Re: bill gates linux

[Luke Woods]

the linux distro you seek exists. its called windows xp.

nuff said.

Luke

p.s. qbasic is the programming language for stupid people.

- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 9:29 AM
Subject: bill gates linux


>
> I am not at totally stupid
> person.I have written a 60k
> byte qbasic application program.
> I have watched with interest over
> the past few years the development
> of Linux.I believe it will really
> never go very far until someone
> removes the hopelessly complex web
> of knowledge required to use the
> system.
> What is required is in effect a
> Windows,xx or DOS based SETUP.EXE
> program that would permanently
> install Linux on ones hard drive
> including a Partition to allow
> dual Windows,XX and Linux to
> coexist together.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact
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[javi]

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Tu correo gratis en UPSEROS http://www.upseros.com

清华大学现代经济管理高级研修班

[清华大学现代经济管理高级研修班]

Title: 无标题文档





   
 
  
 
清华大学人文社会科学学院
   现代经济管理高级研修班
  招生简章 

  
   
一、办学目的：
  　　国力的竞争在于企业，企业的竞争在于人才。清华大学人文社会科学学院利用我们的教育资源，举办现代经济管理高级研修班，为社会服务，为培养参与全球经济竞争的实战型企业管理人才服务。
  二、招生对象：
  　　 国家政府机构主管经济的领导；中外企业决策人及中高层管理者；有志于从事现代经济管理工作的人士。
  三、教学方式：
  　　采用集中基础理论讲授与企业家、经济学家实战主题讲座相结合，教师互动讲授与模拟演示相结合的教学方式，是企业家实践交流的平台。
  四、证书发放：
  　　学完全部课程后，颁发清华大学教育培训管理处结业证书。
  五、学习时间、地点：

   
　开 课 时 间
　　每期授课时间为6天,开课前一星期通知每期具体时间和报到流程。
  　　学习地点：清华大学
  
   
 
  
  2002年12月22日至12月27日

  

六、核心课程：
  
  
 
  　资本运营和风险投资
●现代资本与资本运营管理 
●资本运营的背景和发展趋势
●资本运营的资金筹措管理
●企业购并与风险投资管理
●资本与现代产权治理结构管理
　……
  　场营销学管理 

●创新营销学的新概念、新思 路、新课题、新策略
●名牌的创造与开发
●大市场营销与营销管理过程
●目标市场与产品策略、价格策略、 
渠道策略、促销策略
●顾客服务营销公共关系
　……

 
  　企业项目及项目管理
●项目与项目管理
●项目的过程管理
●项目组织及项目经理
●项目范围、进度、成本、质量管理
●项目人力资源管理
●项目风险管理
　…… 
  　现代企业制度行为管理
●产品研究与开发、企业创新经营
●企业组织结构的划分与建立
●企业责权利承担义务与权利
●企业文化设计与发展
●关于企业购并，资产重组与股份制
　……

 
   　企业领导艺术管理
●任人之道、决策分析、沟通艺术
●独裁与平衡管理经营方法
●领导素质与技能培训
●部门经理管理制度的建立与运用
　……
  
   
　企业经营战略管理
  ●企业竞争力提升战略
  ●决定企业动态竞争的原因及分析
  ●企业战略规划与战略联盟
  ●企业在网络信息时代竞争的特点 
  ●用博弈论塑造企业战略
  ●危机公关的案例分析
  ●未来企业面临的新挑战及管理发展趋势
  　……
  

 
  　企业人力资源管理
●人力资源的开发、创新与管理
●创造性人才的培养与员工潜力的激发
●培训计划与福利计划
●团队精神建立与组织及团队智慧管理
●人力资源的合理组织与利用
　……
  

  
  七、国内案例研习： 国外案例研习：
　　 ●中国企业20年成败经典案例； ●经营之神松下幸之助；
　　 ●世界头号CEO韦尔奇； 　　　 ●宝洁公司的经营模式；
　　 ●香港大亨李嘉诚与李泽锴；　 ●菲利普・科特勒营销战略新模型；
　　 ●盖洛普的员工才干理念； 　　●进入万科地产十年路；
　　 ●国外企业经营经典案例； 　　●中国顶尖企业CEO张瑞敏；
　　 ●世界首富-微软主席盖茨；　　●跨国公司品牌管理经验；
　　　…… 

八、本学习通过研讨为您分析并解决企业普遍存在的以下问题
　●企业战略定位与实施问题；　　●市场竞争策略；
　●如何确定企业核心竞争力；　　●如何选择风险投资；
　●顾客满意服务体系的建立与完善；　　　●人本企业的管理体系建立；
　●企业文化建立与企业可持续发展问题；　●领导的艺术与魅力；
　●中国古代哲学思想在现代企业中的应用；●……
（欢迎学员携带企业个案参与学习及研讨）。
  　－剪裁线－－－
 清华大学人文社会科学学院现代经济管理高级研修班报名表 (需加盖单位公章) 
  
 
   　企业名称
   
  　电 话
   

 
  　地 　址
   
  　手 机
   

 
  　联 系 人
   
   　邮 编
   
  　传 真
   

 
  　姓　 名
  　性 别
  　年 龄
  　民 族
  　学 历
  　学 位
  　职 务

 
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

 
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

 
   
   
   
   
   
   
   


   
   
   
   
   
   
   

  
  
  
  九、招生处联系方法：
　　联系人：牟老师
　　电 话：010-63955860、63951669、63955925、63950852 
　　传 真：010-63950974、63955890 
十、学习费用与报名方法：
　　培训费4000元/人，交通、教材、讲义800元/人，报名费200元/人，共计：5000元人民币。食宿自理，由学校统一安排，请将学习费用通过银行汇款至：
　　收款人：清华大学（061） 
　　帐 号：024509089131550 
　　开户行：北京工商行海淀分理处
  
  

清华大学现代经济管理高级研修班

[清华大学现代经济管理高级研修班]

Title: 无标题文档





   
 
  
 
清华大学人文社会科学学院
   现代经济管理高级研修班
  招生简章 

  
   
一、办学目的：
  　　国力的竞争在于企业，企业的竞争在于人才。清华大学人文社会科学学院利用我们的教育资源，举办现代经济管理高级研修班，为社会服务，为培养参与全球经济竞争的实战型企业管理人才服务。
  二、招生对象：
  　　 国家政府机构主管经济的领导；中外企业决策人及中高层管理者；有志于从事现代经济管理工作的人士。
  三、教学方式：
  　　采用集中基础理论讲授与企业家、经济学家实战主题讲座相结合，教师互动讲授与模拟演示相结合的教学方式，是企业家实践交流的平台。
  四、证书发放：
  　　学完全部课程后，颁发清华大学教育培训管理处结业证书。
  五、学习时间、地点：

   
　开 课 时 间
　　每期授课时间为6天,开课前一星期通知每期具体时间和报到流程。
  　　学习地点：清华大学
  
   
 
  
  2002年12月22日至12月27日

  

六、核心课程：
  
  
 
  　资本运营和风险投资
●现代资本与资本运营管理 
●资本运营的背景和发展趋势
●资本运营的资金筹措管理
●企业购并与风险投资管理
●资本与现代产权治理结构管理
　……
  　场营销学管理 

●创新营销学的新概念、新思 路、新课题、新策略
●名牌的创造与开发
●大市场营销与营销管理过程
●目标市场与产品策略、价格策略、 
渠道策略、促销策略
●顾客服务营销公共关系
　……

 
  　企业项目及项目管理
●项目与项目管理
●项目的过程管理
●项目组织及项目经理
●项目范围、进度、成本、质量管理
●项目人力资源管理
●项目风险管理
　…… 
  　现代企业制度行为管理
●产品研究与开发、企业创新经营
●企业组织结构的划分与建立
●企业责权利承担义务与权利
●企业文化设计与发展
●关于企业购并，资产重组与股份制
　……

 
   　企业领导艺术管理
●任人之道、决策分析、沟通艺术
●独裁与平衡管理经营方法
●领导素质与技能培训
●部门经理管理制度的建立与运用
　……
  
   
　企业经营战略管理
  ●企业竞争力提升战略
  ●决定企业动态竞争的原因及分析
  ●企业战略规划与战略联盟
  ●企业在网络信息时代竞争的特点 
  ●用博弈论塑造企业战略
  ●危机公关的案例分析
  ●未来企业面临的新挑战及管理发展趋势
  　……
  

 
  　企业人力资源管理
●人力资源的开发、创新与管理
●创造性人才的培养与员工潜力的激发
●培训计划与福利计划
●团队精神建立与组织及团队智慧管理
●人力资源的合理组织与利用
　……
  

  
  七、国内案例研习： 国外案例研习：
　　 ●中国企业20年成败经典案例； ●经营之神松下幸之助；
　　 ●世界头号CEO韦尔奇； 　　　 ●宝洁公司的经营模式；
　　 ●香港大亨李嘉诚与李泽锴；　 ●菲利普・科特勒营销战略新模型；
　　 ●盖洛普的员工才干理念； 　　●进入万科地产十年路；
　　 ●国外企业经营经典案例； 　　●中国顶尖企业CEO张瑞敏；
　　 ●世界首富-微软主席盖茨；　　●跨国公司品牌管理经验；
　　　…… 

八、本学习通过研讨为您分析并解决企业普遍存在的以下问题
　●企业战略定位与实施问题；　　●市场竞争策略；
　●如何确定企业核心竞争力；　　●如何选择风险投资；
　●顾客满意服务体系的建立与完善；　　　●人本企业的管理体系建立；
　●企业文化建立与企业可持续发展问题；　●领导的艺术与魅力；
　●中国古代哲学思想在现代企业中的应用；●……
（欢迎学员携带企业个案参与学习及研讨）。
  　－剪裁线－－－
 清华大学人文社会科学学院现代经济管理高级研修班报名表 (需加盖单位公章) 
  
 
   　企业名称
   
  　电 话
   

 
  　地 　址
   
  　手 机
   

 
  　联 系 人
   
   　邮 编
   
  　传 真
   

 
  　姓　 名
  　性 别
  　年 龄
  　民 族
  　学 历
  　学 位
  　职 务

 
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

 
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

 
   
   
   
   
   
   
   


   
   
   
   
   
   
   

  
  
  
  九、招生处联系方法：
　　联系人：牟老师
　　电 话：010-63955860、63951669、63955925、63950852 
　　传 真：010-63950974、63955890 
十、学习费用与报名方法：
　　培训费4000元/人，交通、教材、讲义800元/人，报名费200元/人，共计：5000元人民币。食宿自理，由学校统一安排，请将学习费用通过银行汇款至：
　　收款人：清华大学（061） 
　　帐 号：024509089131550 
　　开户行：北京工商行海淀分理处
  
  

Re: update_excuses.html

[Martin Schulze]

Noèl Köthe wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> http://ftp-master.debian.org/testing/update_excuses.html
> 
> is the page outdated because of waiting for glibc move to
> testing or is there another reason?

Please see
http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2002/debian-devel-200211/msg02902.html

Regards,

Joey

-- 
MIME - broken solution for a broken design.  -- Ralf Baechle

Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists.

清华大学现代经济管理高级研修班

[清华大学现代经济管理高级研修班]

Title: 无标题文档





   
 
  
 
清华大学人文社会科学学院
   现代经济管理高级研修班
  招生简章 

  
   
一、办学目的：
  　　国力的竞争在于企业，企业的竞争在于人才。清华大学人文社会科学学院利用我们的教育资源，举办现代经济管理高级研修班，为社会服务，为培养参与全球经济竞争的实战型企业管理人才服务。
  二、招生对象：
  　　 国家政府机构主管经济的领导；中外企业决策人及中高层管理者；有志于从事现代经济管理工作的人士。
  三、教学方式：
  　　采用集中基础理论讲授与企业家、经济学家实战主题讲座相结合，教师互动讲授与模拟演示相结合的教学方式，是企业家实践交流的平台。
  四、证书发放：
  　　学完全部课程后，颁发清华大学教育培训管理处结业证书。
  五、学习时间、地点：

   
　开 课 时 间
　　每期授课时间为6天,开课前一星期通知每期具体时间和报到流程。
  　　学习地点：清华大学
  
   
 
  
  2002年12月22日至12月27日

  

六、核心课程：
  
  
 
  　资本运营和风险投资
●现代资本与资本运营管理 
●资本运营的背景和发展趋势
●资本运营的资金筹措管理
●企业购并与风险投资管理
●资本与现代产权治理结构管理
　……
  　场营销学管理 

●创新营销学的新概念、新思 路、新课题、新策略
●名牌的创造与开发
●大市场营销与营销管理过程
●目标市场与产品策略、价格策略、 
渠道策略、促销策略
●顾客服务营销公共关系
　……

 
  　企业项目及项目管理
●项目与项目管理
●项目的过程管理
●项目组织及项目经理
●项目范围、进度、成本、质量管理
●项目人力资源管理
●项目风险管理
　…… 
  　现代企业制度行为管理
●产品研究与开发、企业创新经营
●企业组织结构的划分与建立
●企业责权利承担义务与权利
●企业文化设计与发展
●关于企业购并，资产重组与股份制
　……

 
   　企业领导艺术管理
●任人之道、决策分析、沟通艺术
●独裁与平衡管理经营方法
●领导素质与技能培训
●部门经理管理制度的建立与运用
　……
  
   
　企业经营战略管理
  ●企业竞争力提升战略
  ●决定企业动态竞争的原因及分析
  ●企业战略规划与战略联盟
  ●企业在网络信息时代竞争的特点 
  ●用博弈论塑造企业战略
  ●危机公关的案例分析
  ●未来企业面临的新挑战及管理发展趋势
  　……
  

 
  　企业人力资源管理
●人力资源的开发、创新与管理
●创造性人才的培养与员工潜力的激发
●培训计划与福利计划
●团队精神建立与组织及团队智慧管理
●人力资源的合理组织与利用
　……
  

  
  七、国内案例研习： 国外案例研习：
　　 ●中国企业20年成败经典案例； ●经营之神松下幸之助；
　　 ●世界头号CEO韦尔奇； 　　　 ●宝洁公司的经营模式；
　　 ●香港大亨李嘉诚与李泽锴；　 ●菲利普・科特勒营销战略新模型；
　　 ●盖洛普的员工才干理念； 　　●进入万科地产十年路；
　　 ●国外企业经营经典案例； 　　●中国顶尖企业CEO张瑞敏；
　　 ●世界首富-微软主席盖茨；　　●跨国公司品牌管理经验；
　　　…… 

八、本学习通过研讨为您分析并解决企业普遍存在的以下问题
　●企业战略定位与实施问题；　　●市场竞争策略；
　●如何确定企业核心竞争力；　　●如何选择风险投资；
　●顾客满意服务体系的建立与完善；　　　●人本企业的管理体系建立；
　●企业文化建立与企业可持续发展问题；　●领导的艺术与魅力；
　●中国古代哲学思想在现代企业中的应用；●……
（欢迎学员携带企业个案参与学习及研讨）。
  　－剪裁线－－－
 清华大学人文社会科学学院现代经济管理高级研修班报名表 (需加盖单位公章) 
  
 
   　企业名称
   
  　电 话
   

 
  　地 　址
   
  　手 机
   

 
  　联 系 人
   
   　邮 编
   
  　传 真
   

 
  　姓　 名
  　性 别
  　年 龄
  　民 族
  　学 历
  　学 位
  　职 务

 
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

 
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

 
   
   
   
   
   
   
   


   
   
   
   
   
   
   

  
  
  
  九、招生处联系方法：
　　联系人：牟老师
　　电 话：010-63955860、63951669、63955925、63950852 
　　传 真：010-63950974、63955890 
十、学习费用与报名方法：
　　培训费4000元/人，交通、教材、讲义800元/人，报名费200元/人，共计：5000元人民币。食宿自理，由学校统一安排，请将学习费用通过银行汇款至：
　　收款人：清华大学（061） 
　　帐 号：024509089131550 
　　开户行：北京工商行海淀分理处
  
  

Re: update_excuses.html

[Paul Cupis]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Tuesday 03 December 2002 11:10, NoÃl KÃthe wrote:
> Hello,
>
> http://ftp-master.debian.org/testing/update_excuses.html
>
> is the page outdated because of waiting for glibc move to
> testing or is there another reason?

- From 
http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2002/debian-devel-200211/msg02902.html

  It's disabled due to non-US moving hosts (satie to klecker), it hasn't
  been re-enabled yet since there's still some worries about whether non-US
  has been recovered adequately; and the glibc issue means there's not a
  huge amount of point to re-enabling it. :-/

Regards,

Paul Cupis
- -- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE97MF/IzuKV+SHX/kRAhqNAKCC7SffbaVaXyBBHdk5+WZrfGFvUgCfQ3dQ
13UPDLmbh8oyF5X0z35Qp4w=
=srX8
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Bug#171586: ITP: myspanish -- The myspell spanish dictionary for openoffice

[Agustin Martin Domingo]

Package: wnpp
Version: N/A; reported 2002-12-03
Severity: wishlist

* Package name: myspanish (or openoffice.org-spellcheck-es-es)
* License : (GPL)
  Description : The myspell spanish dictionary for openoffice

This is simply a reservation to notify that I plan to prepare a myspell
spanish openoffice dictionary from the same sources as current ispell package
ispanish. License and so on are the same as ispanish, GPL, as well as
upstream authors and so on. Naming will depend on openoffice naming policy.

-- System Information
Debian Release: testing/unstable
Architecture: i386
Kernel: Linux uguindo 2.4.20 #2 vie nov 29 15:54:18 CET 2002 i686
Locale: LANG=es_ES, LC_CTYPE=es_ES

Re: racoon ISAKMP implementation for IPsec

[Steve Dunham]

Noah L. Meyerhans wrote:
I just downloaded the latest upstream source for the iputils packages
and noticed that they it now contains quite a bit of IPsec code.  In
particular, this includes libipsec and racoon.  Racoon is the KAME
ISAKMP (IPsec key exchange protocol) implementation.  I haven't
investigated further, but considering the upstream author's involvement
in Linux kernel network development, I'd take this as a sign that racoon
will be the "official" ISAKMP implementation for the recently merged
kernel IPsec code.
I haven't seen any mention of racoon on this list, nor in wnpp.  The
iputils release notes indicate that racoon will eventually be moved to a
separate source package that should be packaged separately from the
iptuils Debian packages.  I will maintain the racoon and libipsec
packages, since I haven't seen any sign of other people offering to do
so.
If I missed an ITP, please let me know.
No ITP, but I did manage to get this to compile against the 2.5.50
kernel source tree.  It seems to work, but the other side of my
tunnel is down at the moment (he upgraded his kernel but didn't
rebuild freeswan).
You'll also need the setkey program from iputils to do IPSEC.  Both
of these (and the library) need headers from a recent kernel source
tree.
I've attached my changes to get racoon to compile, in case you're
interested.  Mostly tweaks because our glibc has functions that
the source doesn't think __linux__ has.
Steve Dunham
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

--- iputils.orig/racoon/grabmyaddr.c2002-11-08 18:20:56.0 -0800
+++ iputils/racoon/grabmyaddr.c 2002-11-30 22:26:43.0 -0800
@@ -37,8 +37,8 @@
 #include 
 #if defined(__FreeBSD__) && __FreeBSD__ >= 3
 #include 
-#endif
 #include 
+#endif
 
 #include 
 #include 
@@ -79,6 +79,12 @@
 #endif
 
 #ifdef __linux__
+#include 
+__u32 nl_pid;
+int nl_rescan;
+#endif
+
+#if 0
 
 /* We could do this _much_ better. kame racoon in its current form
  * will esentially die at frequent changes of address configuration.
@@ -93,10 +99,8 @@
struct sockaddr_storage ifa_addrbuf;
 };
 
-#include 
 
-__u32 nl_pid;
-int nl_rescan;
+
 
 static int parse_rtattr(struct rtattr *tb[], int max, struct rtattr *rta, int 
len)
 {
--- iputils.orig/racoon/pfkey.c 2002-11-08 15:25:14.0 -0800
+++ iputils/racoon/pfkey.c  2002-11-30 22:17:59.0 -0800
@@ -36,7 +36,7 @@
 #include 
 #include 
 
-#include 
+/*#include */
 #include 
 
 #include 

Re: location of UnicodeData.txt

[Jim Penny]

>> But they clearly do not want you to modify anything, including
>> character name!  Character name is a searchable field, which some
>> applications may need.  
>
>It's an English field, for which there is a canonical translation
>for French, and there should be translation for other languages.

But, on the unicode stability policy page 
http://www.unicode.org/unicode/standard/stability_policy.html
it says:

  The character names are used to distinguish between characters, and do
  not always express the full meaning of each character. They are
  designed to be used programmatically, and thus must be stable.

  In some cases the original name chosen to represent the character is
  inaccurate in one way or another. Any such inaccuracies are dealt with
  by adding annotations to the character name list (which is printed in
  the Unicode Standard and provided in a machine-readable format), or by
  adding descriptive text to the standard.

  Note: It is possible to produce translated names for the characters,
  to make the information conveyed by the name accessible to non-English
  speakers. 

Hmmm.  What does that mean?  Are translated names to be "annotations",
"descriptions", "character names", or are they maintained in a separate
table?  How do you use the name programmatically if you don't know the
language they are in?

I did some googling, but could not find the French trasnlation files. Is
there an URL?

Jim Penny

Re: racoon ISAKMP implementation for IPsec

[Noah L. Meyerhans]

On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 08:01:02AM -0800, Steve Dunham wrote:
> No ITP, but I did manage to get this to compile against the 2.5.50
> kernel source tree.  It seems to work, but the other side of my
> tunnel is down at the moment (he upgraded his kernel but didn't
> rebuild freeswan).

Cool, thanks.  I've filed the ITP and will possibly make an upload once
I've managed to test things.  I might hold off, though, until Alexey
separates the IPsec tools from iputils, which he said he'll do.  It
shouldn't matter, considering that these tools and the kernel they
support are under heavy development

> You'll also need the setkey program from iputils to do IPSEC.  Both
> of these (and the library) need headers from a recent kernel source
> tree.

Yeah, I'm pretty familar with the KAME IPsec tools, having used them on
Free and NetBSD.  I'm actually really excited to see them available for
Linux, as I much prefer them to FreeS/WAN.  I'll probably build a
libipsec package and an ipsec-tools package, or something like that.  I
haven't thought too deeply about it yet.

> I've attached my changes to get racoon to compile, in case you're
> interested.  Mostly tweaks because our glibc has functions that
> the source doesn't think __linux__ has.

Cool, thanks.

noah

-- 
 ___
| Web: http://web.morgul.net/~frodo/
| PGP Public Key: http://web.morgul.net/~frodo/mail.html 


pgpzRDGEmQEnn.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Need other languafes then english, german and french

[Steve Dunham]

Michelle Konzack wrote:
Hello,
Normaly I am using in my~/.baschrc 'export [EMAIL PROTECTED]' and
it works quiet well. Same is for the french users.
The tr_TR is half readable.
Now I like to use setings for 'fs_ IR', 'ar_SY' und 'ar_MA'.
I get a very funny screen... ;-))
Where are the console fonts ???
I have found something for X but nothing for the console...
The most important thing is mc...
There appear to be some console fonts in the "console-data"
package.  Take a look at:
   /usr/share/doc/console-data/fonts/README
and the other files in that directory.  You will have to
switch fonts depending on what locale you are using.  The
command:
   locale -ck code_set_name charmap
can tell you what charset you need to use.
Viel Glück,
Steve Dunham
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.cse.msu.edu/~dunham

Re: location of UnicodeData.txt

[Jim Penny]

> > If a system simply declared a section of data to be
> > UniCode data, and made no attempt to comprehend the contents, it
> > probably would not need to have access to the contents of Unicode.txt.
> 
> Just like if a system simply declared a section of data to be
> code complaint to Fortran-2026, and if it made no attempt to
> comprehend it, it wouldn't need access to the contents of that
> standard. A text-processing program that needs to display data is 
> going to need the contents of UnicodeData for BiDi. A proper
> cut program should use UnicodeData, so it doesn't seperate a 
> character from a subsequent combining character. A spell program 
> is going to need the data to know which characters end words. 
> Anything that handles text in a way more complex then cat will
> access to this data.
> 

OK, now, supposing that the unicode license is found to be non-DSFG
free, and hence that UnicodeData.txt is non-free.

Suppose a program implements either unicode collation, regular expressions, 
or any of the other things mentioned above.

(collation is at: http://www.unicode.org/unicode/reports/tr10/,
regular expressions are at http://www.unicode.org/unicode/reports/tr18/)

Can the program be in debian main?

In other words, does the program "require ... non-free packages or
packages which are not in our archive at all for ...  execution"?

Jim Penny

Re: Fwd: Please confirm your message

[Adam McKenna]

On Mon, Dec 02, 2002 at 11:49:09PM +0100, Andreas Fuchs wrote:
> Right. I just thought up a scheme to exploit this, based on the fake
> source-IP address approach you find in descriptions of ping-floods.

Wow, you're pretty smart.  Nobody has thought of this before, especially not
the authors of said programs.

> a) Spammer finds an autoresponder
> b) Spammer sends many mails with Reply-To: header chosen from a
>know-to-work address list
> c) Reply-To:ed people receive the bounced mail and are annoyed.

d) Andreas Fuchs figures out how the programs he is bashing actually work.

> Thus, my conclusion: These things are evil. Don't use them or somebody
> might use them against you, eventually.

This sounds vaguely like religion -- you haven't even taken the time to see
how these filters work yet you are decrying them as "evil".

They happen to be the most effective filtering solution at present, and they
definitely beat the "everyone registers their SMTP server" solution that's
currently being pushed in certain technical forums.

Someday this type of software may be rendered ineffective by some new
spammer invention, and at that time it will be easy enough to just turn it
off and use something else.

--Adam
-- 
Adam McKenna  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: Fwd: Please confirm your message

[Colin Watson]

On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 08:56:10AM -0800, Adam McKenna wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 02, 2002 at 11:49:09PM +0100, Andreas Fuchs wrote:
> > Thus, my conclusion: These things are evil. Don't use them or somebody
> > might use them against you, eventually.
> 
> This sounds vaguely like religion -- you haven't even taken the time to see
> how these filters work yet you are decrying them as "evil".
> 
> They happen to be the most effective filtering solution at present,

/dev/null is the most effective filtering solution at present, and these
days happens to be equivalent to these filters when applied to mail from
me.

It's easy to be effective if you don't care about false positives.

-- 
Colin Watson  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Bug#171597: ITP: arp-sk -- Swiss knife tool for ARP

[Thomas Seyrat]

Package: wnpp
Version: unavailable; reported 2002-12-03
Severity: wishlist

* Package name: arp-sk
  Version : 0.0.15
  Upstream Author : Frédéric Raynal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://www.arp-sk.org/
* License : GPL
  Description : Swiss knife tool for ARP


-- System Information:
Debian Release: testing/unstable
Architecture: powerpc
Kernel: Linux lise 2.4.19-pre10-ben0 #1 Wed Jun 5 11:19:30 CEST 2002 ppc
Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=fr_FR.ISO-8859-1


-- 
Thomas Seyrat.

Re: Fwd: Please confirm your message

[Adam McKenna]

On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 05:13:42PM +, Colin Watson wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 08:56:10AM -0800, Adam McKenna wrote:
> > On Mon, Dec 02, 2002 at 11:49:09PM +0100, Andreas Fuchs wrote:
> > > Thus, my conclusion: These things are evil. Don't use them or somebody
> > > might use them against you, eventually.
> > 
> > This sounds vaguely like religion -- you haven't even taken the time to see
> > how these filters work yet you are decrying them as "evil".
> > 
> > They happen to be the most effective filtering solution at present,
> 
> /dev/null is the most effective filtering solution at present, and these
> days happens to be equivalent to these filters when applied to mail from
> me.
> 
> It's easy to be effective if you don't care about false positives.

Yes, and unless you consider people who either:

1) are too lazy to confirm
2) have a philosophical objection to confirming

false positives, then there are no false positives with confirmation systems.

You're also assuming that the users of such systems don't periodically check
out their pending queue to make sure there isn't any legitimate mail in
there before purging it.

--Adam

-- 
Adam McKenna  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: Fwd: Please confirm your message

[Anthony Towns]

On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 09:26:34AM -0800, Adam McKenna wrote:
> > It's easy to be effective if you don't care about false positives.
> Yes, and unless you consider people who either:
> 1) are too lazy to confirm
> 2) have a philosophical objection to confirming
> false positives, then there are no false positives with confirmation systems.

Any mail you want to read that gets blocked by a spam filter is a
false positive, whoever it may be from. Why're you trying to cloud the
issue with inane word games? There are already sensible definitions for
these words.

Note that, conversely, "Hi, I'm a program and I don't know who you are,
and don't trust you, please spend some of your valuable time to overcome
my paranoia" can quite reasonably be classed as "mail you don't want to
read", especially if it's on behalf of someone who's asking you a favour.

Cheers,
aj

-- 
Anthony Towns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
I don't speak for anyone save myself. GPG signed mail preferred.

 ``If you don't do it now, you'll be one year older when you do.''


pgpb79NJLAsQF.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Fwd: Please confirm your message

[Colin Watson]

On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 09:26:34AM -0800, Adam McKenna wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 05:13:42PM +, Colin Watson wrote:
> > /dev/null is the most effective filtering solution at present, and these
> > days happens to be equivalent to these filters when applied to mail from
> > me.
> > 
> > It's easy to be effective if you don't care about false positives.
> 
> Yes, and unless you consider people who either:
> 
> 1) are too lazy to confirm
> 2) have a philosophical objection to confirming
> 
> false positives,

I do. If you don't, I guess we have no common ground. Also consider
systems like the BTS that send mail; I certainly don't think those
confirmations get religiously replied to, although boredom might lead to
somebody doing it on occasion.

> You're also assuming that the users of such systems don't periodically
> check out their pending queue to make sure there isn't any legitimate
> mail in there before purging it.

Fair point.

-- 
Colin Watson  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Build problems on s390 & hppa (compiler/assembler bugs?)

[Xavier Roche]

Hi,

I am currently in "new maintainer phase", and my package was sponsored by 
Christian Marillat, and uploaded to the autobuilder. (I am also the author of 
the original package)

I have two build problems ; one on s390, mips & mipsel architectures, and one 
on hppa architecture.
(see http://buildd.debian.org/build.php?arch=&pkg=httrack)

The first problem is a weird assembler message, on s390 & mipsel, it seems that 
gcc is producing invalid assembly instructions (range error):

...
gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I.. -DINET6 -DPREFIX=\"/usr\" 
-DSYSCONFDIR=\"/etc\" -DDATADIR=\"/usr/share\" -DLIBDIR=\"/usr/lib\" -O -g3 
-Wall -Wcast-align -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes 
-Wmissing-declarations -Wpointer-arith -Wnested-externs -D_REENTRANT -c 
htscore.c -Wp,-MD,.deps/htscore.TPlo  -fPIC -DPIC -o .libs/htscore.lo
/tmp/cc1jAxPo.s: Assembler messages:
/tmp/cc1jAxPo.s:13670: Error: operand out of range (12be not 
between 0 and 4095)
/tmp/cc1jAxPo.s:21074: Error: operand out of range (2a3c not 
between 0 and 4095)
...
make[4]: *** [htscore.lo] Error 1

According to various previous discussions here, it seems that using -O0 is 
fixing the problem (compiler bug), so I'll have to patch the configure.in - is 
there any cleaner way?


The second problem is an internal compiler error on hppa:

...
gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I.. -DINET6 -DPREFIX=\"/usr\" 
-DSYSCONFDIR=\"/etc\" -DDATADIR=\"/usr/share\" -DLIBDIR=\"/usr/lib\" -O -g3 
-Wall -Wcast-align -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes 
-Wmissing-declarations -Wpointer-arith -Wnested-externs -D_REENTRANT -MT 
htscore.lo -MD -MP -MF .deps/htscore.Tpo -c htscore.c  -fPIC -DPIC -o 
.libs/htscore.lo
htscore.c: In function `httpmirror':
htscore.c:2720: Internal compiler error in output_cbranch, at 
config/pa/pa.c:5159
Please submit a full bug report,
with preprocessed source if appropriate.
See http://www.gnu.org/software/gcc/bugs.html> for instructions.
make[4]: *** [htscore.lo] Error 1

The line 2720 is the end of a quite long function, which is the main 
html/javascript/css parser code (difficult to split into parts), but I don't 
really see what's the problem.

What is the best way to handle this problem? I don't have access to the hppa 
machine yet (as not-yet-debian-developper), and I did not see any bugreport for 
this specific problem on gcc.gnu.org.

Re: Fwd: Please confirm your message

[Adam McKenna]

On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 03:40:53AM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 09:26:34AM -0800, Adam McKenna wrote:
> > > It's easy to be effective if you don't care about false positives.
> > Yes, and unless you consider people who either:
> > 1) are too lazy to confirm
> > 2) have a philosophical objection to confirming
> > false positives, then there are no false positives with confirmation 
> > systems.
> 
> Any mail you want to read that gets blocked by a spam filter is a
> false positive, whoever it may be from. Why're you trying to cloud the
> issue with inane word games? There are already sensible definitions for
> these words.

The key issue here is that the mail isn't blocked.  It's simply held in
another place until confirmed.  It doesn't become a "false positive" until it
is deleted without being read.

> Note that, conversely, "Hi, I'm a program and I don't know who you are,
> and don't trust you, please spend some of your valuable time to overcome
> my paranoia" can quite reasonably be classed as "mail you don't want to
> read", especially if it's on behalf of someone who's asking you a favour.

Yes, and people are perfectly within their right to drop such messages (or
any messages, for that matter) into the bit bucket, just like they're within
their right to drop bounce messages.  But they shouldn't be surprised when 
their original message is either dropped, or read weeks late.

BTW, anyone who e-mails you and then asks you to confirm your reply is
either using broken software, or doesn't have their outgoing mail headers set
up properly.

As a side note, I am pretty amused by the people in this thread who say 
"don't use these systems, they're antisocial", and then follow that up with 
"I'm going to blacklist anyone who uses these systems"..  I guess their 
definition of antisocial is different than mine.

--Adam

-- 
Adam McKenna  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

keyserver.debian.org.com

[Philip Brown]

Has anyone noticed that someone has pseudo-hijacked 
keyserver.debian.org.com

Is this supposed to be there?
It seems to be kinda worrying that someone has registered that hostname.
Particularly since I found it by doing a dns lookup of 
keyserver.debian.org

and the host I'm on, fell through to automatically adding a .com to it,
and finding that address.

清华大学现代经济管理高级研修班

[清华大学现代经济管理高级研修班]

Title: 无标题文档





   
 
  
 
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   现代经济管理高级研修班
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  四、证书发放：
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　　每期授课时间为6天,开课前一星期通知每期具体时间和报到流程。
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  2002年12月22日至12月27日

  

六、核心课程：
  
  
 
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　……
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●目标市场与产品策略、价格策略、 
渠道策略、促销策略
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　……

 
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●任人之道、决策分析、沟通艺术
●独裁与平衡管理经营方法
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　……
  

  
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　　 ●中国企业20年成败经典案例； ●经营之神松下幸之助；
　　 ●世界头号CEO韦尔奇； 　　　 ●宝洁公司的经营模式；
　　 ●香港大亨李嘉诚与李泽锴；　 ●菲利普・科特勒营销战略新模型；
　　 ●盖洛普的员工才干理念； 　　●进入万科地产十年路；
　　 ●国外企业经营经典案例； 　　●中国顶尖企业CEO张瑞敏；
　　 ●世界首富-微软主席盖茨；　　●跨国公司品牌管理经验；
　　　…… 

八、本学习通过研讨为您分析并解决企业普遍存在的以下问题
　●企业战略定位与实施问题；　　●市场竞争策略；
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　●中国古代哲学思想在现代企业中的应用；●……
（欢迎学员携带企业个案参与学习及研讨）。
  　－剪裁线－－－
 清华大学人文社会科学学院现代经济管理高级研修班报名表 (需加盖单位公章) 
  
 
   　企业名称
   
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  　联 系 人
   
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  九、招生处联系方法：
　　联系人：牟老师
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　　传 真：010-63950974、63955890 
十、学习费用与报名方法：
　　培训费4000元/人，交通、教材、讲义800元/人，报名费200元/人，共计：5000元人民币。食宿自理，由学校统一安排，请将学习费用通过银行汇款至：
　　收款人：清华大学（061） 
　　帐 号：024509089131550 
　　开户行：北京工商行海淀分理处
  
  

Re: Fwd: Please confirm your message

[Richard Braakman]

On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 11:09:02AM +0100, Gerrit Pape wrote:
> Autoresponders, bouncers, and other mail handling programs use the
> envelope sender address, not an address found in any header of the mail.
> I doubt that any abuse@ address replies to a bounce message.  This is no
> problem.

Practical experience contradicts this.  Have you tried subscribing
to debian-security?  You get to learn fascinating things about the
vacationing habits of random strangers.

I also _frequently_ get bounces that should have gone to the mailing
list software instead of to me.  This happens less on unixy lists,
so you might not have noticed on debian-*.

Hmm, if I understand it right, your plan will mean that anyone operating
such a broken mail system will get DoSed by spammers?  Then maybe there's
something to it after all :-)

Richard Braakman

Re: keyserver.debian.org.com

[Ben Armstrong]

On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 09:58:18AM -0800, Philip Brown wrote:
> Has anyone noticed that someone has pseudo-hijacked 
> keyserver.debian.org.com
> 
> Is this supposed to be there?
> It seems to be kinda worrying that someone has registered that hostname.
> Particularly since I found it by doing a dns lookup of 
> keyserver.debian.org

You don't register hostnames.  You register domain names.

The owner of "org.com" has a wildcard dns entry:

Try:

$ host i.am.a.chump.org.com

Ben
-- 
nSLUG   http://www.nslug.ns.ca  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Debian  http://www.debian.org   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[ pgp key fingerprint = 7F DA 09 4B BA 2C 0D E0  1B B1 31 ED C6 A9 39 4F ]
[ gpg key fingerprint = 395C F3A4 35D3 D247 1387  2D9E 5A94 F3CA 0B27 13C8 ]

RE: keyserver.debian.org.com

[Adam Conrad]

> -Original Message-
> From: Philip Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> Has anyone noticed that someone has pseudo-hijacked 
> keyserver.debian.org.com

Wildcard DNS.  Try "foo.bar.org.com" or
"this.hostname.cant.exist.org.com", it all goes to the same place.

... Adam

Re: keyserver.debian.org.com

[John H. Robinson, IV]

Philip Brown wrote:
> Has anyone noticed that someone has pseudo-hijacked 
> keyserver.debian.org.com

.org.com has a wildcard pointing to it, so if you spell .org
wrong, your browser is likely to append a .com to it, and off to
.org.com you go.

i pointed my cache to my own dns server that serves up a wildcard
.org.com pointing to 127.0.0.1

> Is this supposed to be there?

it is very rude of org.com, but otherwise legal

> It seems to be kinda worrying that someone has registered that hostname.

nah, just another unscrupulous person on the planet. no big deal.

> Particularly since I found it by doing a dns lookup of 
> keyserver.debian.org

keyring.debian.org is the secret sauce
   

-john

Re: keyserver.debian.org.com

[Mateusz Papiernik]

> Wildcard DNS.  Try "foo.bar.org.com" or
> "this.hostname.cant.exist.org.com", it all goes to the same place.

the same as my, www.debian.org.maticompxp.w-s.pl for example,
or www.debian.org.libtlen.eu.org :)



Mati

Re: Fwd: Please confirm your message

[Colin Watson]

On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 09:55:34AM -0800, Adam McKenna wrote:
> BTW, anyone who e-mails you and then asks you to confirm your reply is
> either using broken software, or doesn't have their outgoing mail
> headers set up properly.

So people who e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] and then ask for
confirmation from [EMAIL PROTECTED] must be using broken software
too, I guess. Similarly, people don't always use one of my canonical
addresses.

-- 
Colin Watson  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Build problems on s390 & hppa (compiler/assembler bugs?)

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 06:46:29PM +0100, Xavier Roche wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am currently in "new maintainer phase", and my package was sponsored by 
> Christian Marillat, and uploaded to the autobuilder. (I am also the author of 
> the original package)
> 
> I have two build problems ; one on s390, mips & mipsel architectures, and one 
> on hppa architecture.
> (see http://buildd.debian.org/build.php?arch=&pkg=httrack)
> 
> The first problem is a weird assembler message, on s390 & mipsel, it seems 
> that gcc is producing invalid assembly instructions (range error):
> 
> ...
> gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I.. -DINET6 -DPREFIX=\"/usr\" 
> -DSYSCONFDIR=\"/etc\" -DDATADIR=\"/usr/share\" -DLIBDIR=\"/usr/lib\" -O -g3 
> -Wall -Wcast-align -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes 
> -Wmissing-declarations -Wpointer-arith -Wnested-externs -D_REENTRANT -c 
> htscore.c -Wp,-MD,.deps/htscore.TPlo  -fPIC -DPIC -o .libs/htscore.lo
> /tmp/cc1jAxPo.s: Assembler messages:
> /tmp/cc1jAxPo.s:13670: Error: operand out of range (12be not 
> between 0 and 4095)
> /tmp/cc1jAxPo.s:21074: Error: operand out of range (2a3c not 
> between 0 and 4095)
> ...
> make[4]: *** [htscore.lo] Error 1
> 
> According to various previous discussions here, it seems that using -O0 is 
> fixing the problem (compiler bug), so I'll have to patch the configure.in - 
> is there any cleaner way?

No, you don't have to patch configure.in. Simply doing

CFLAGS=-O0 -Whatever_you_want ./configure

should do it. Of course, you want to put that in a make if-statement, so
that it's only executed on the specific failing architectures...

[...not familiar with hppa myself...]

-- 
wouter at grep dot be

"Human knowledge belongs to the world"
  -- From the movie "Antitrust"

Re: Build problems on s390 & hppa (compiler/assembler bugs?)

[Joop Stakenborg]

On Tue, 03 Dec 2002 18:46:29 +0100
Xavier Roche <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> The first problem is a weird assembler message, on s390 & mipsel, it seems 
> that gcc is producing invalid assembly instructions (range error):
> 
> ...
> gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I.. -DINET6 -DPREFIX=\"/usr\" 
> -DSYSCONFDIR=\"/etc\" -DDATADIR=\"/usr/share\" -DLIBDIR=\"/usr/lib\" -O -g3 
> -Wall -Wcast-align -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes 
> -Wmissing-declarations -Wpointer-arith -Wnested-externs -D_REENTRANT -c 
> htscore.c -Wp,-MD,.deps/htscore.TPlo  -fPIC -DPIC -o .libs/htscore.lo
> /tmp/cc1jAxPo.s: Assembler messages:
> /tmp/cc1jAxPo.s:13670: Error: operand out of range (12be not 
> between 0 and 4095)
> /tmp/cc1jAxPo.s:21074: Error: operand out of range (2a3c not 
> between 0 and 4095)
> ...
> make[4]: *** [htscore.lo] Error 1
> 
> According to various previous discussions here, it seems that using -O0 is 
> fixing the problem (compiler bug), so I'll have to patch the configure.in - 
> is there any cleaner way?
> 

This is in debian/rules in one of my packages, the very first lines are:

ifneq (,$(findstring alpha,$(DEB_BUILD_ARCH)))
CFLAGS = -O0 -g -mieee
else
CFLAGS = -O2 -g -Wall
endif

You could adopt this for mipsel or s390...

Regards,
Joop

Re: keyserver.debian.org.com

[Steve Langasek]

On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 09:58:18AM -0800, Philip Brown wrote:
> Has anyone noticed that someone has pseudo-hijacked 
> keyserver.debian.org.com

> Is this supposed to be there?
> It seems to be kinda worrying that someone has registered that hostname.
> Particularly since I found it by doing a dns lookup of 
> keyserver.debian.org

> and the host I'm on, fell through to automatically adding a .com to it,
> and finding that address.

When it first occurred to someone that this sort of a trick could be
played on people to hijack domains, an RFC came out specifying that
hostname resolvers should NOT append the local TLD to the requested name
when trying to resolve it.  Sounds like you have a broken system.

-- 
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer


pgpl0HsgvZ2Xw.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: keyserver.debian.org.com

[Philip Brown]

On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 10:15:47AM -0800, John H. Robinson, IV wrote:
> ...
> > Particularly since I found it by doing a dns lookup of 
> > keyserver.debian.org
> 
> keyring.debian.org is the secret sauce
>

perhaps the appropriate person for debian might put in a CNAME record?

Re: keyserver.debian.org.com

[Henrique de Moraes Holschuh]

On Tue, 03 Dec 2002, Steve Langasek wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 09:58:18AM -0800, Philip Brown wrote:
> > Has anyone noticed that someone has pseudo-hijacked 
> > keyserver.debian.org.com
> 
> > Is this supposed to be there?
> > It seems to be kinda worrying that someone has registered that hostname.
> > Particularly since I found it by doing a dns lookup of 
> > keyserver.debian.org
> 
> > and the host I'm on, fell through to automatically adding a .com to it,
> > and finding that address.
> 
> When it first occurred to someone that this sort of a trick could be
> played on people to hijack domains, an RFC came out specifying that
> hostname resolvers should NOT append the local TLD to the requested name
> when trying to resolve it.  Sounds like you have a broken system.

Oh, you mean they can't do as Mozilla, IE, and a lot of other
crap^H^H^H^Hbrowsers do?

I *seriously* doubt the system resolv libraries are doing such weirdness...

-- 
  "One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
  them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
  where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
  Henrique Holschuh

Re: Fwd: Please confirm your message

[Adam McKenna]

On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 06:16:48PM +, Colin Watson wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 09:55:34AM -0800, Adam McKenna wrote:
> > BTW, anyone who e-mails you and then asks you to confirm your reply is
> > either using broken software, or doesn't have their outgoing mail
> > headers set up properly.
> 
> So people who e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] and then ask for
> confirmation from [EMAIL PROTECTED] must be using broken software
> too, I guess. Similarly, people don't always use one of my canonical
> addresses.

Yes, that's correct.  People using such systems should be sending from tagged
addresses that do not require confirmation.

--Adam

-- 
Adam McKenna  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

★一周赚1000多美圆！★~v~发了！★

[Todd]

如果你相信网上赚钱的话，请点击 
http://www.way2win.com/default.asp?REFID=2629900，你会有意想;
不到的收获！注册（完全是免费的）完成后，我会免费送给你一套注册版的群
发软件，帮助你更好的赚钱！
 
★一周赚1000多美圆！★~v~发了！★

我的亲身经历：一周赚1000多美圆！ 

3天赚650美元？！是真的吗？请接着往下看。 


我一直认为天下没有免费的午餐，还曾经和网友争论网赚的不可靠。可是现在想想，其实我也没什么可
以让那些搞网赚的公司骗的。我装了宽带，天天上网，用不用电脑都付一样多的
费用。还不如多上上网，现在搞网赚只当是消磨时间，就当自己在论坛灌水好了。相信不相信，你试试看咯
。大家自己想想吧！ 赚美国人的钱咯！ 

加入送50美元，介绍一人加入给50美元！！！ 

点这里加入http://www.way2win.com/default.asp?REFID=2629900（点击不成; 
复制、粘贴到地址栏,如
果一次不行就多试几次,一定行的）

   ★★★发了！★点击注册★ 


进入way2win主页面。您会看到右边有几个小方框，这就是注册的地方，每介绍一人进网站注册便可获得
50元, 对全球用户开放！！去年美国在线搞过一次，也是每发展一个会员50美
元。象这样的超级公司，区区几个美元对它们又算得了什么，恐怕不时的出来摆摆阔，显示其霸主地位才更
重要吧。当然,也不用担心其信誉，这种公司把面子看得比什么都重要。当然你
不可能因此成为百万富豪，但白拿几百或者几千美金也不无小补哦！这是一家赌博公司开的网站，不过我劝
你别用得来的钱赌，没有人是靠赌博发财的，当然你想赌赌运气我也没有办法。
我建议可以用这笔钱炒炒B股，即使陪了也不用心疼，你可以把它当作长期投资放在那，讲不定过几年你真的
成为百万富人了呢！ 


注意：他们只发展300万会员，每位会员送50美元，现在已经260多万了（按2002年10月20日的统计），
名额有限哦！（注：300万会员每人送50美元，全部也就1500万到3000万美元吗
，还算比较便宜的美国网站推广方式啊），至于他们的信誉， 
这样的大公司最爱面子了，您不用担心，国内
好多网友收到过他们的支票！如果您不懂英文，没关系，下面有详细的中文注
册对照，希望能够帮上您的忙！

赶快行动吧，有限期的哦！！！只限300万注册用户内加入的！ 

具体作办法在后面： 

相信不相信，你试试看咯。大家自己想想吧！赚美国人的钱咯！ 

如何赚钱： 
具体作办法如下：（建议你打印出来，照着上面办就可以了，简单的很） 
注册方法 
步骤一： 
http://www.way2win.com/default.asp?REFID=2629900进入上面网站（点击不成; 
复制、粘贴到地址栏） 

注意：请不要直接进入WAY2WIN网站注册，因为如你没有介绍人他们就会随便选一个号码给你作为介绍号
码（一般是美国人），所以请还是按以上地址进入网站。 
First Name: 填你的姓氏（用拼音，要与你身份证上的相符，如 hua） 
Last Name: 填你的名字 （用拼音，要与你身份证上的相符，如 feng） 
Email: 电子邮件地址 （一定要正确否则收不到确认函） 
Verify Email: (重复电子邮件地址) 
选 sing up 提交注册信息 
   
（注：有时页面会显示连接不上，我遇到过，但多几次返回提交后就可以了，实在不行的话，你可以完全
退出网络IE浏览器后再进入上面的作，肯定是连的上的，实在不行的话可以等
一天再上，因为人满多的，再不行的话可以换个地方换个电脑试试，再不行我也没办法了：（，看你的运气
咯，） 

提交注册信息后进入新的页面 
按步骤二办： 
*Username: （ 登陆用的用户名，自己随便起一个） 
*Password: 密码 
*Gender 性别(Male--男,Female--女) 
*Birth Date 生日 
*Street Address （收支票的地址，很重要，参见如何填写地址） 
*City: 城 市（拼音，中国居民后面加上省份，如广州为 gongzhou） 
*State/Province: （中国居民不要选） 
*Zip: 邮政编码 （一定要正确） 
*Country: 国家（中国--China） 
*Phone: 电话号码（随便填一国内电话号码，如86-10-6233223） 
选 submit 提交注册信息

步骤三： 

打开你的电子邮箱，你会收到一封邮件，login.asp?cCode=88A5CFA6-9B1C-5CCA-6EF4-9A9419CAC679>
 
这样的一串字符,点击它,才能激活你的账号。（注意：是点击自己邮箱中的，不
是点击这里） 
进入网页后，再次输入你的 Username: Password: 选 submit 提交 
（有时候不用输入，点击后直接能
收的邮件，就是说点击后他就会发给你一封邮件，但有时是要填写上面信息的） 

步骤四： 
再次打开你的电子邮箱，又会收到一封邮件，其中有诸如http://www.way2win.com/default.asp?
REFID=2629900这样的一串字符，后面的数字 便是你的 ID 号。 

宣传方法* 
http://www.way2win.com/default.asp?REFID=2629900把最后的数字2629900改为你; 的ID 
号，先介绍给你的
亲朋好友们   ^*^ ，然后，到各个网站的留言板中,把上面的内容全部复制、
粘贴进去！ 不过，一定要记住把2629900为你的ID 
哦。不然，你是在为我宣传了！而不是你 ^o^ 

好了，那就祝你多多发财了…… 不，应该是祝我们一起发大财！这才对啊！^o^ 

疑 难 解 答 
1.怎样填写姓名？ 
在英文中First Name为名字的意思 ，Last Name:为姓氏 
，如你的姓名为华峰，如按以下方式填写： 
First Name: feng ，Last Name:hua ，那么你 收到的支票收款人将会是feng 
hua 
，当然在一般情况下也可以取到钱，但有时候他们也可能为难你，说名字与身份证上的户名不符。我遇
到过两次这种情况，我的一些朋友也遇到过这种情况。相反按步骤一那样填写则
绝无问题。 

2.怎样填写地址？ 
*** 英文地址示范 
中山路133号6栋704室 Room 704, Building 6, No.133, zhongshan road 
解放路幸福新村8栋168室 Room 168, Building 8, Xing Fu Xin Cun , Jiefang 
Road 湖州路88号 Room 88，Huzhou Road 
八一路666号特钢公司 Special Steel Corp，No.666，Bayi　Road 
东区腾达花园8栋866室 Room 866, 8th Building,Tengda Garden, East District 
*** 也可以直接写拼音，只要能国内邮递员能看懂就行了。 
解放路幸福新村8栋168室 168 Shi, 8 Dong, Xing Fu Xin Cun, Jiefang Lu 

3.按步骤三选 submit 提交后，网页下方的英文 Modify your Account Details 
Resign from Mailing List Resign分别是什么意思？ 
Modify your Account ：修改你的账目 
Resign from Mailing List ：从邮寄列表中退出 
***注意不要随便选这项，如选这项进了网页，一定不
能选yes ，否则你刚刚提交的电子邮箱地址将会被删除。 
Resign ：辞职 ***同样不要随便选这项，如选这项进了网页，一定不能选yes 
，否则你刚刚提交的所有
信息将会被作废。 

4.如何查账？ 
完成上述步骤后，(1)点 http://www.way2win.com/ ;下方有Already a member? click 
here to login 点击
它; (2)输入用户名Username及密码Password后点击submit进入下个页面；(3)
点击新页面右下方美金图片的下面的 CHECK YOUR REFERRAL BONUS   
GO后就可以看见你的账户情况了，一般
你的账户今额不是当天显示的（最晚是一月后，我的是一周时间，但我的朋友
有的比较晚） 
  

告诉你我的亲身经历：通过我的努力，我一周狂赚1000多美圆。不过第一步你先要注册成会员哦！我就
是按照上述步骤做的。注册成会员后，我每天发10-15封信，三天发了40多封，
平均每天有2-3人通过我的介绍成为会员（每当有人通过你的介绍成为会员，网站就会发一封祝贺信到你的信
箱）。我相信你可以做得更好！

★★★祝你成功！★★★
 
最后说一下如果你想挣到更多的钱必须有这两个软件：亿虎Email群发大师 和 
亿虎Email搜索大师。当
我收到你注册的确认信后，如果你需要的话，发邮件给我，我会把这套注册版的
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

电子厂:降低您生产成本的福音

[cbc]

您好!
我是深圳市惠世光电子有限公司,我公司专业生产SMT钢网已有四年多,
近期本公司代处理北京千柱原装锡膏，具体型号是：OZ 8031-418F-53-9.5;
金属含量:SN58/PB39/BI03;外包装:针筒式750G;销售价:150元/支(即200元/KG,不含税)
本锡膏缺点:1.不很光亮;2.较稀,不适应有0.5PICH的QFP.
优点:1.焊接性,抗干性,印刷性,稳定性都比较好;2.价格低,较大数量.
联系人：方先生TEL：13602577858。
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
打扰您实在不好意思!

清华大学现代经济管理高级研修班

[清华大学现代经济管理高级研修班]

Title: 无标题文档





   
 
  
 
清华大学人文社会科学学院
   现代经济管理高级研修班
  招生简章 

  
   
一、办学目的：
  　　国力的竞争在于企业，企业的竞争在于人才。清华大学人文社会科学学院利用我们的教育资源，举办现代经济管理高级研修班，为社会服务，为培养参与全球经济竞争的实战型企业管理人才服务。
  二、招生对象：
  　　 国家政府机构主管经济的领导；中外企业决策人及中高层管理者；有志于从事现代经济管理工作的人士。
  三、教学方式：
  　　采用集中基础理论讲授与企业家、经济学家实战主题讲座相结合，教师互动讲授与模拟演示相结合的教学方式，是企业家实践交流的平台。
  四、证书发放：
  　　学完全部课程后，颁发清华大学教育培训管理处结业证书。
  五、学习时间、地点：

   
　开 课 时 间
　　每期授课时间为6天,开课前一星期通知每期具体时间和报到流程。
  　　学习地点：清华大学
  
   
 
  
  2002年12月22日至12月27日

  

六、核心课程：
  
  
 
  　资本运营和风险投资
●现代资本与资本运营管理 
●资本运营的背景和发展趋势
●资本运营的资金筹措管理
●企业购并与风险投资管理
●资本与现代产权治理结构管理
　……
  　场营销学管理 

●创新营销学的新概念、新思 路、新课题、新策略
●名牌的创造与开发
●大市场营销与营销管理过程
●目标市场与产品策略、价格策略、 
渠道策略、促销策略
●顾客服务营销公共关系
　……

 
  　企业项目及项目管理
●项目与项目管理
●项目的过程管理
●项目组织及项目经理
●项目范围、进度、成本、质量管理
●项目人力资源管理
●项目风险管理
　…… 
  　现代企业制度行为管理
●产品研究与开发、企业创新经营
●企业组织结构的划分与建立
●企业责权利承担义务与权利
●企业文化设计与发展
●关于企业购并，资产重组与股份制
　……

 
   　企业领导艺术管理
●任人之道、决策分析、沟通艺术
●独裁与平衡管理经营方法
●领导素质与技能培训
●部门经理管理制度的建立与运用
　……
  
   
　企业经营战略管理
  ●企业竞争力提升战略
  ●决定企业动态竞争的原因及分析
  ●企业战略规划与战略联盟
  ●企业在网络信息时代竞争的特点 
  ●用博弈论塑造企业战略
  ●危机公关的案例分析
  ●未来企业面临的新挑战及管理发展趋势
  　……
  

 
  　企业人力资源管理
●人力资源的开发、创新与管理
●创造性人才的培养与员工潜力的激发
●培训计划与福利计划
●团队精神建立与组织及团队智慧管理
●人力资源的合理组织与利用
　……
  

  
  七、国内案例研习： 国外案例研习：
　　 ●中国企业20年成败经典案例； ●经营之神松下幸之助；
　　 ●世界头号CEO韦尔奇； 　　　 ●宝洁公司的经营模式；
　　 ●香港大亨李嘉诚与李泽锴；　 ●菲利普・科特勒营销战略新模型；
　　 ●盖洛普的员工才干理念； 　　●进入万科地产十年路；
　　 ●国外企业经营经典案例； 　　●中国顶尖企业CEO张瑞敏；
　　 ●世界首富-微软主席盖茨；　　●跨国公司品牌管理经验；
　　　…… 

八、本学习通过研讨为您分析并解决企业普遍存在的以下问题
　●企业战略定位与实施问题；　　●市场竞争策略；
　●如何确定企业核心竞争力；　　●如何选择风险投资；
　●顾客满意服务体系的建立与完善；　　　●人本企业的管理体系建立；
　●企业文化建立与企业可持续发展问题；　●领导的艺术与魅力；
　●中国古代哲学思想在现代企业中的应用；●……
（欢迎学员携带企业个案参与学习及研讨）。
  　－剪裁线－－－
 清华大学人文社会科学学院现代经济管理高级研修班报名表 (需加盖单位公章) 
  
 
   　企业名称
   
  　电 话
   

 
  　地 　址
   
  　手 机
   

 
  　联 系 人
   
   　邮 编
   
  　传 真
   

 
  　姓　 名
  　性 别
  　年 龄
  　民 族
  　学 历
  　学 位
  　职 务

 
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

 
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

 
   
   
   
   
   
   
   


   
   
   
   
   
   
   

  
  
  
  九、招生处联系方法：
　　联系人：牟老师
　　电 话：010-63955860、63951669、63955925、63950852 
　　传 真：010-63950974、63955890 
十、学习费用与报名方法：
　　培训费4000元/人，交通、教材、讲义800元/人，报名费200元/人，共计：5000元人民币。食宿自理，由学校统一安排，请将学习费用通过银行汇款至：
　　收款人：清华大学（061） 
　　帐 号：024509089131550 
　　开户行：北京工商行海淀分理处
  
  

Re: Fwd: Please confirm your message

[Russell Coker]

On Tue, 3 Dec 2002 18:55, Adam McKenna wrote:
> As a side note, I am pretty amused by the people in this thread who say
> "don't use these systems, they're antisocial", and then follow that up with
> "I'm going to blacklist anyone who uses these systems"..  I guess their
> definition of antisocial is different than mine.

What is wrong with choosing not to socialise with anti-social people?

-- 
http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/   My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages
http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/  Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark
http://www.coker.com.au/postal/Postal SMTP/POP benchmark
http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/  My home page

Re: New maintainer behaviour with NMU and LogJam's hijacking

[Karl Ramm]

清华大学现代经济管理高级研修班

[清华大学现代经济管理高级研修班]

Title: 无标题文档





   
 
  
 
清华大学人文社会科学学院
   现代经济管理高级研修班
  招生简章 

  
   
一、办学目的：
  　　国力的竞争在于企业，企业的竞争在于人才。清华大学人文社会科学学院利用我们的教育资源，举办现代经济管理高级研修班，为社会服务，为培养参与全球经济竞争的实战型企业管理人才服务。
  二、招生对象：
  　　 国家政府机构主管经济的领导；中外企业决策人及中高层管理者；有志于从事现代经济管理工作的人士。
  三、教学方式：
  　　采用集中基础理论讲授与企业家、经济学家实战主题讲座相结合，教师互动讲授与模拟演示相结合的教学方式，是企业家实践交流的平台。
  四、证书发放：
  　　学完全部课程后，颁发清华大学教育培训管理处结业证书。
  五、学习时间、地点：

   
　开 课 时 间
　　每期授课时间为6天,开课前一星期通知每期具体时间和报到流程。
  　　学习地点：清华大学
  
   
 
  
  2002年12月22日至12月27日

  

六、核心课程：
  
  
 
  　资本运营和风险投资
●现代资本与资本运营管理 
●资本运营的背景和发展趋势
●资本运营的资金筹措管理
●企业购并与风险投资管理
●资本与现代产权治理结构管理
　……
  　场营销学管理 

●创新营销学的新概念、新思 路、新课题、新策略
●名牌的创造与开发
●大市场营销与营销管理过程
●目标市场与产品策略、价格策略、 
渠道策略、促销策略
●顾客服务营销公共关系
　……

 
  　企业项目及项目管理
●项目与项目管理
●项目的过程管理
●项目组织及项目经理
●项目范围、进度、成本、质量管理
●项目人力资源管理
●项目风险管理
　…… 
  　现代企业制度行为管理
●产品研究与开发、企业创新经营
●企业组织结构的划分与建立
●企业责权利承担义务与权利
●企业文化设计与发展
●关于企业购并，资产重组与股份制
　……

 
   　企业领导艺术管理
●任人之道、决策分析、沟通艺术
●独裁与平衡管理经营方法
●领导素质与技能培训
●部门经理管理制度的建立与运用
　……
  
   
　企业经营战略管理
  ●企业竞争力提升战略
  ●决定企业动态竞争的原因及分析
  ●企业战略规划与战略联盟
  ●企业在网络信息时代竞争的特点 
  ●用博弈论塑造企业战略
  ●危机公关的案例分析
  ●未来企业面临的新挑战及管理发展趋势
  　……
  

 
  　企业人力资源管理
●人力资源的开发、创新与管理
●创造性人才的培养与员工潜力的激发
●培训计划与福利计划
●团队精神建立与组织及团队智慧管理
●人力资源的合理组织与利用
　……
  

  
  七、国内案例研习： 国外案例研习：
　　 ●中国企业20年成败经典案例； ●经营之神松下幸之助；
　　 ●世界头号CEO韦尔奇； 　　　 ●宝洁公司的经营模式；
　　 ●香港大亨李嘉诚与李泽锴；　 ●菲利普・科特勒营销战略新模型；
　　 ●盖洛普的员工才干理念； 　　●进入万科地产十年路；
　　 ●国外企业经营经典案例； 　　●中国顶尖企业CEO张瑞敏；
　　 ●世界首富-微软主席盖茨；　　●跨国公司品牌管理经验；
　　　…… 

八、本学习通过研讨为您分析并解决企业普遍存在的以下问题
　●企业战略定位与实施问题；　　●市场竞争策略；
　●如何确定企业核心竞争力；　　●如何选择风险投资；
　●顾客满意服务体系的建立与完善；　　　●人本企业的管理体系建立；
　●企业文化建立与企业可持续发展问题；　●领导的艺术与魅力；
　●中国古代哲学思想在现代企业中的应用；●……
（欢迎学员携带企业个案参与学习及研讨）。
  　－剪裁线－－－
 清华大学人文社会科学学院现代经济管理高级研修班报名表 (需加盖单位公章) 
  
 
   　企业名称
   
  　电 话
   

 
  　地 　址
   
  　手 机
   

 
  　联 系 人
   
   　邮 编
   
  　传 真
   

 
  　姓　 名
  　性 别
  　年 龄
  　民 族
  　学 历
  　学 位
  　职 务

 
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

 
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

 
   
   
   
   
   
   
   


   
   
   
   
   
   
   

  
  
  
  九、招生处联系方法：
　　联系人：牟老师
　　电 话：010-63955860、63951669、63955925、63950852 
　　传 真：010-63950974、63955890 
十、学习费用与报名方法：
　　培训费4000元/人，交通、教材、讲义800元/人，报名费200元/人，共计：5000元人民币。食宿自理，由学校统一安排，请将学习费用通过银行汇款至：
　　收款人：清华大学（061） 
　　帐 号：024509089131550 
　　开户行：北京工商行海淀分理处
  
  

清华大学现代经济管理高级研修班

[清华大学现代经济管理高级研修班]

Title: 无标题文档





   
 
  
 
清华大学人文社会科学学院
   现代经济管理高级研修班
  招生简章 

  
   
一、办学目的：
  　　国力的竞争在于企业，企业的竞争在于人才。清华大学人文社会科学学院利用我们的教育资源，举办现代经济管理高级研修班，为社会服务，为培养参与全球经济竞争的实战型企业管理人才服务。
  二、招生对象：
  　　 国家政府机构主管经济的领导；中外企业决策人及中高层管理者；有志于从事现代经济管理工作的人士。
  三、教学方式：
  　　采用集中基础理论讲授与企业家、经济学家实战主题讲座相结合，教师互动讲授与模拟演示相结合的教学方式，是企业家实践交流的平台。
  四、证书发放：
  　　学完全部课程后，颁发清华大学教育培训管理处结业证书。
  五、学习时间、地点：

   
　开 课 时 间
　　每期授课时间为6天,开课前一星期通知每期具体时间和报到流程。
  　　学习地点：清华大学
  
   
 
  
  2002年12月22日至12月27日

  

六、核心课程：
  
  
 
  　资本运营和风险投资
●现代资本与资本运营管理 
●资本运营的背景和发展趋势
●资本运营的资金筹措管理
●企业购并与风险投资管理
●资本与现代产权治理结构管理
　……
  　场营销学管理 

●创新营销学的新概念、新思 路、新课题、新策略
●名牌的创造与开发
●大市场营销与营销管理过程
●目标市场与产品策略、价格策略、 
渠道策略、促销策略
●顾客服务营销公共关系
　……

 
  　企业项目及项目管理
●项目与项目管理
●项目的过程管理
●项目组织及项目经理
●项目范围、进度、成本、质量管理
●项目人力资源管理
●项目风险管理
　…… 
  　现代企业制度行为管理
●产品研究与开发、企业创新经营
●企业组织结构的划分与建立
●企业责权利承担义务与权利
●企业文化设计与发展
●关于企业购并，资产重组与股份制
　……

 
   　企业领导艺术管理
●任人之道、决策分析、沟通艺术
●独裁与平衡管理经营方法
●领导素质与技能培训
●部门经理管理制度的建立与运用
　……
  
   
　企业经营战略管理
  ●企业竞争力提升战略
  ●决定企业动态竞争的原因及分析
  ●企业战略规划与战略联盟
  ●企业在网络信息时代竞争的特点 
  ●用博弈论塑造企业战略
  ●危机公关的案例分析
  ●未来企业面临的新挑战及管理发展趋势
  　……
  

 
  　企业人力资源管理
●人力资源的开发、创新与管理
●创造性人才的培养与员工潜力的激发
●培训计划与福利计划
●团队精神建立与组织及团队智慧管理
●人力资源的合理组织与利用
　……
  

  
  七、国内案例研习： 国外案例研习：
　　 ●中国企业20年成败经典案例； ●经营之神松下幸之助；
　　 ●世界头号CEO韦尔奇； 　　　 ●宝洁公司的经营模式；
　　 ●香港大亨李嘉诚与李泽锴；　 ●菲利普・科特勒营销战略新模型；
　　 ●盖洛普的员工才干理念； 　　●进入万科地产十年路；
　　 ●国外企业经营经典案例； 　　●中国顶尖企业CEO张瑞敏；
　　 ●世界首富-微软主席盖茨；　　●跨国公司品牌管理经验；
　　　…… 

八、本学习通过研讨为您分析并解决企业普遍存在的以下问题
　●企业战略定位与实施问题；　　●市场竞争策略；
　●如何确定企业核心竞争力；　　●如何选择风险投资；
　●顾客满意服务体系的建立与完善；　　　●人本企业的管理体系建立；
　●企业文化建立与企业可持续发展问题；　●领导的艺术与魅力；
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Re: keyserver.debian.org.com

[H. S. Teoh]

On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 04:53:05PM -0200, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
[snip]
> > When it first occurred to someone that this sort of a trick could be
> > played on people to hijack domains, an RFC came out specifying that
> > hostname resolvers should NOT append the local TLD to the requested name
> > when trying to resolve it.  Sounds like you have a broken system.
> 
> Oh, you mean they can't do as Mozilla, IE, and a lot of other
> crap^H^H^H^Hbrowsers do?
> 
> I *seriously* doubt the system resolv libraries are doing such weirdness...
[snip]

I have only ever seen browsers do this kind of nonsense. I have never seen
nslookup, dig, or host, attempt such lame lookup methods before. It
appears to me to be yet another one of the sugar-it-down-for-dummies
features that found its way into browsers, so that you can type in the URL
box "microsoft" and it will deduce that you really meant
"www.microsoft.com". (After all, don't all domains start with www and end
with .com? )


T

-- 
PNP = Plug 'N' Pray

ecartis up for adoption

[John Goerzen]

Hello,

I have decided that since my mailing lists are not currently hosted on
Debian, I don't have the time/resources/testing platform that I used to for
maintaining Ecartis, and I would like some qualified person to take over
maintenance of this package.

Thanks,
John

Bug#171622: ITP: pv -- Terminal-based tool for monitoring the progress of data through a pipeline

[Cédric Delfosse]

Package: wnpp
Version: N/A; reported 2002-12-03
Severity: wishlist

* Package name: pv
  Version : 0.4.0
  Upstream Author : Andrew Wood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://www.ivarch.com/programs/pv.shtml
* License : Artistic
  Description : Terminal-based tool for monitoring the progress of data 
through a pipeline

pv (Pipe Viewer) can be inserted into any normal pipeline between two processes 
to give a visual indication of how quickly data is passing through, how long it 
has taken, how near to completion it is, and an estimate of how long it will be 
until completion.

Re: Build problems on s390 & hppa (compiler/assembler bugs?)

[Xavier Roche]

>>No, you don't have to patch configure.in. Simply doing
>>CFLAGS=-O0 -Whatever_you_want ./configure
>>should do it. Of course, you want to put that in a make if-statement, so
>>that it's only executed on the specific failing architectures...

Yes, that's what I was thinking about. I suppose I'll have to check the gcc 
changelog and see if the problem is fixed time to time...

>>[...not familiar with hppa myself...]


Hum, the hppa problem seem really weird, no hit on dejanews, and only one 
similar hit on google for the "Internal compiler error in output_cbranch" error 
... 

Bug#171627: [RFP]: apt-file -- apt-file update failed

[Xavier MAILLARD]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist

* Package name: apt-file
  Version : 
  Upstream Author : Name <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://www.some.org/
* License : (GPL, LGPL, BSD, MIT/X, etc.)
  Description : apt-file update failed

I just have tried to update the apt-file db using command: sudo apt-get
update.

This is what I got when trying:

Can't use an undefined value as an ARRAY reference at /usr/bin/apt-file line 
61,  line 30.
BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/bin/apt-file line 346,
 line 30.

I'm running under an up-to-date sid distrib (upgraded tonight)

Re: Are we losing users to Gentoo?

[Craig Small]

Gee, it's a pretty bad topic, but anyway...

On Fri, Nov 29, 2002 at 03:58:51PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote:
> There's a straight 2 click path to a directory with an ISO image on it
> on the gentoo site. For freebsd, it's 3 obvious clicks to a ftp site
> directory, then click on arch and version. For netbsd, 5 clicks to a
> mirror (one hidden far down a page). For debian, it's 4 clicks, _if_ you
> avoid the unofficial images, and the false path that leads only to them.
> And _if_ you happen to pick one of the small fraction of listed mirrors
> that really work.
> 
> So no, in this case our web site is behind all but netbsd in structure,
> and behind netbsd in the sory state of our cdrom mirror network.

Finding ISOs is possible but a pain in the arse and it should be a lot
simpler.  jigdo is ok but quite often you just want the damn ISO image
and be done with it.

  - Craig
-- 
Craig Small VK2XLZ  GnuPG:1C1B D893 1418 2AF4 45EE  95CB C76C E5AC 12CA DFA5
Eye-Net Consulting http://www.enc.com.au/<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIEEE <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Debian developer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: keyserver.debian.org.com

[Philip Brown]

On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 03:29:31PM -0500, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> I have only ever seen browsers do this kind of nonsense. I have never seen
> nslookup, dig, or host, attempt such lame lookup methods before. 

live and learn:


--
Script started on Tue Dec  3 14:14:30 2002
bash-2.03$ uname -a
FreeBSD bolthole.com 4.4-RELEASE FreeBSD 4.4-RELEASE #7: Fri Aug  9 08:53:32 
MDT 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/src/sys/compile/VKERN  i386
bash-2.03$ nslookup keyserver.debian.org
Server:  bolthole.com
Address:  0.0.0.0

Non-authoritative answer:
Name:keyserver.debian.org.com
Address:  216.234.246.140

bash-2.03$ exit
exit

Script done on Tue Dec  3 14:14:44 2002
--

FYI: the box is my virtually-hosted domain -- I dont own it.

Re: location of UnicodeData.txt

[Thomas Bushnell, BSG]

Jim Penny <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> OK, now, supposing that the unicode license is found to be non-DSFG
> free, and hence that UnicodeData.txt is non-free.
> 
> Suppose a program implements either unicode collation, regular expressions, 
> or any of the other things mentioned above.
> 
> (collation is at: http://www.unicode.org/unicode/reports/tr10/,
> regular expressions are at http://www.unicode.org/unicode/reports/tr18/)
> 
> Can the program be in debian main?
> 
> In other words, does the program "require ... non-free packages or
> packages which are not in our archive at all for ...  execution"?

1) I don't answer questions based on false hypotheticals.  It's not
   worth the time or energy.

2) Debian implements many non-free standards documents.  Why don't you
   see how we already handle this situation?

Re: keyserver.debian.org.com

[Daniel Jacobowitz]

On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 03:29:31PM -0500, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 04:53:05PM -0200, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
> [snip]
> > > When it first occurred to someone that this sort of a trick could be
> > > played on people to hijack domains, an RFC came out specifying that
> > > hostname resolvers should NOT append the local TLD to the requested name
> > > when trying to resolve it.  Sounds like you have a broken system.
> > 
> > Oh, you mean they can't do as Mozilla, IE, and a lot of other
> > crap^H^H^H^Hbrowsers do?
> > 
> > I *seriously* doubt the system resolv libraries are doing such weirdness...
> [snip]
> 
> I have only ever seen browsers do this kind of nonsense. I have never seen
> nslookup, dig, or host, attempt such lame lookup methods before. It
> appears to me to be yet another one of the sugar-it-down-for-dummies
> features that found its way into browsers, so that you can type in the URL
> box "microsoft" and it will deduce that you really meant
> "www.microsoft.com". (After all, don't all domains start with www and end
> with .com? )

I believe pump created resolv.conf's with ".org" in them for a while...
it's fixed now.

-- 
Daniel Jacobowitz
MontaVista Software Debian GNU/Linux Developer

Re: Fwd: Please confirm your message

[Matthew Garrett]

In chiark.mail.debian.devel, you wrote:

>Autoresponders, bouncers, and other mail handling programs use the
>envelope sender address, not an address found in any header of the mail.
>I doubt that any abuse@ address replies to a bounce message.  This is no
>problem.

Having received one of the things now, it seems that you're not actually
sending bounce messages as such. On the other hand, you're right that
this won't result in false confirmation in the case of autorespenders
that (correctly) respond to the envelope sender - sadly, there's no real
shortage of broken autoresponders that will reply to the from header
instead.

-- 
Matthew Garrett | [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Fwd: Please confirm your message

[Brian May]

On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 11:09:02AM +0100, Gerrit Pape wrote:
> Autoresponders, bouncers, and other mail handling programs use the
> envelope sender address, not an address found in any header of the mail.
> I doubt that any abuse@ address replies to a bounce message.  This is no
> problem.

You seem to imply that the envelope sender address is harder to forge?

Yet my experience has been that I can telnet to port 25 on any mail
server, and give it any envelope sender I want.

Are there suppost to be some sort of checks placed on this address?
--
Brian May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: Fwd: Please confirm your message

[Andreas Fuchs]

Today, Adam McKenna <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 02, 2002 at 11:49:09PM +0100, Andreas Fuchs wrote:
>> Right. I just thought up a scheme to exploit this, based on the fake
>> source-IP address approach you find in descriptions of ping-floods.
> 
> Wow, you're pretty smart.  Nobody has thought of this before,
> especially not the authors of said programs.

*makes a mental note never to use the term "I just thought up" again*

Please enlighten me, anyway: Why is bouncing the full body of the mail
you received from a person who claims to be Adam back to Adam a good
idea?

-- 
Andreas Fuchs, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED], antifuchs
debian-devel's pretty smart person.

Re: Fwd: Please confirm your message

[Adam McKenna]

On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 09:47:05AM +1100, Brian May wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 11:09:02AM +0100, Gerrit Pape wrote:
> > Autoresponders, bouncers, and other mail handling programs use the
> > envelope sender address, not an address found in any header of the mail.
> > I doubt that any abuse@ address replies to a bounce message.  This is no
> > problem.
> 
> You seem to imply that the envelope sender address is harder to forge?
> 
> Yet my experience has been that I can telnet to port 25 on any mail
> server, and give it any envelope sender I want.
> 
> Are there suppost to be some sort of checks placed on this address?

He's talking about the envelope sender address on the confirmation messages,
which is empty (<>), the same as for bounce messages.

--Adam

-- 
Adam McKenna  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: Fwd: Please confirm your message

[Brian May]

On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 09:55:34AM -0800, Adam McKenna wrote:
> The key issue here is that the mail isn't blocked.  It's simply held in
> another place until confirmed.  It doesn't become a "false positive" until it
> is deleted without being read.

It depends how you define the SPAM checking process.

If you define the SPAM checking process as "an automatic process which
classifies mail as either SPAM or non SPAM", then your statement is
incorrect, it is a false postive as soon as it has been automatically
classified in the wrong group.

However, you seem to be defining the SPAM checking process as "a series
of automatic and manual processes that automatically delete all SPAM
and nothing else from your mail folder".

Which is interesting, the first definition doesn't take into account the
human reading the mail, the second does.

However, as far as I am concerned, my ideal (as unrealistic as it may
be) is not to have to look at SPAM at all, which means that I use the
first definition.
--
Brian May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: Fwd: Please confirm your message

[Adam McKenna]

On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 09:58:28AM +1100, Brian May wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 09:55:34AM -0800, Adam McKenna wrote:
> > The key issue here is that the mail isn't blocked.  It's simply held in
> > another place until confirmed.  It doesn't become a "false positive" until 
> > it
> > is deleted without being read.
> 
> It depends how you define the SPAM checking process.
> 
> If you define the SPAM checking process as "an automatic process which
> classifies mail as either SPAM or non SPAM", then your statement is
> incorrect, it is a false postive as soon as it has been automatically
> classified in the wrong group.

Not really, because the class of programs we're talking about don't make a
distinction between spam and non-spam, they only make a distinction between
confirmed and unconfirmed messages from unknown addresses.

> However, you seem to be defining the SPAM checking process as "a series
> of automatic and manual processes that automatically delete all SPAM
> and nothing else from your mail folder".
> 
> Which is interesting, the first definition doesn't take into account the
> human reading the mail, the second does.
> 
> However, as far as I am concerned, my ideal (as unrealistic as it may
> be) is not to have to look at SPAM at all, which means that I use the
> first definition.

But to be sure you're not getting any false positives, you cruise through
your "spam" mailbox every now and then, right?

--Adam
-- 
Adam McKenna  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: Fwd: Please confirm your message

[Adam McKenna]

On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 11:52:38PM +0100, Andreas Fuchs wrote:
> Today, Adam McKenna <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Mon, Dec 02, 2002 at 11:49:09PM +0100, Andreas Fuchs wrote:
> >> Right. I just thought up a scheme to exploit this, based on the fake
> >> source-IP address approach you find in descriptions of ping-floods.
> > 
> > Wow, you're pretty smart.  Nobody has thought of this before,
> > especially not the authors of said programs.
> 
> *makes a mental note never to use the term "I just thought up" again*
> 
> Please enlighten me, anyway: Why is bouncing the full body of the mail
> you received from a person who claims to be Adam back to Adam a good
> idea?

This is an implementation issue, not a philosophical issue.  Since I only use
TMDA I can't speak for others but TMDA has a CONFIRM_MAX_MESSAGE_SIZE
configuration variable, which will exclude the body of the message from the
confirmation request if its size exceeds the defined value.  The default is
50k.

--Adam

-- 
Adam McKenna  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: bill gates linux

[Philip Charles]

On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Luke Woods wrote:

> the linux distro you seek exists. its called windows xp.
>
> nuff said.
>
> Luke
>
> p.s. qbasic is the programming language for stupid people.
>
Because it does not have line numbers ;)

Phil.

--
  Philip Charles; 39a Paterson Street, Abbotsford, Dunedin, New Zealand
   +64 3 488 2818Fax +64 3 488 2875Mobile 025 267 9420
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - preferred.  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 I sell GNU/Linux & GNU/Hurd CDs.   See http://www.copyleft.co.nz

Re: Fwd: Please confirm your message

[Darren Salt]

I demand that Adam McKenna may or may not have written...

> On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 09:47:05AM +1100, Brian May wrote:
>> On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 11:09:02AM +0100, Gerrit Pape wrote:
>>> Autoresponders, bouncers, and other mail handling programs use the
>>> envelope sender address, not an address found in any header of the mail.
>>> I doubt that any abuse@ address replies to a bounce message.  This is no
>>> problem.
>> You seem to imply that the envelope sender address is harder to forge?
>> Yet my experience has been that I can telnet to port 25 on any mail
>> server, and give it any envelope sender I want.
>> Are there suppost to be some sort of checks placed on this address?

Yes. Try giving a remote (from the server's POV) address after RCPT TO and
see if you still don't have a problem. Or try giving the server a local (to
it) address after MAIL FROM: the server should complain unless you're on a
network which it considers to be local.

If it accepts *any* address after MAIL FROM *and* after RCPT TO regardless of
where you're connecting from, then I'm sure that there's a spammer who'll be
interested in hearing from you ;-)

> He's talking about the envelope sender address on the confirmation
> messages, which is empty (<>), the same as for bounce messages.

That doesn't matter (much) wrt address/location checks...

-- 
| Darren Salt   | nr. Ashington, | linux (or ds) at
| Linux PC, Risc PC | Northumberland | youmustbejoking
| No Wodniws here   | Toon Army  | demon co uk
|   Running woody on the other machine.

You will be held hostage by a radical group.

积冷水和冬季管道冻堵问题从此解决

[义云太阳能]

debian-devel:您好!

 您家和朋友的太阳能热水器管路积冷水和冬季管道冻堵问题从此解决。 
http://www.jsonline.net/tyn/xwlr5.asp?suo=276

致
礼!
  　　 

联想防火墙

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致
礼!
  　　 
  　　 asdfd
  　　 2002-12-04

/tmp/root ???

[Atsuhito Kohda]

Hi all,

I'm not sure but after recent upgrading of unstable
I found /tmp/root 

drwx--2 root root 4096 Dec  2 12:13 /tmp/root

and from its time stamps, I guessed it was created
during upgrading.

Does anyone have the same directory /tmp/root ?

And can anyone guess which package created this /tmp/root ?

I have no idea

Best regards,   2002/12/4

-- 
 Debian Developer & Debian JP Developer - much more I18N of Debian
 Atsuhito Kohda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 Department of Math., Univ. of Tokushima

Re: ecartis up for adoption

[Graham Wilson]

On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 02:46:01PM -0600, John Goerzen wrote:
> I have decided that since my mailing lists are not currently hosted on
> Debian, I don't have the time/resources/testing platform that I used
> to for maintaining Ecartis, and I would like some qualified person to
> take over maintenance of this package.

is development still active upstream? i used to use listar heavily, but
stopped because i thought it was not being very well maintained by
upstream.

--
gram


pgp3JrIaeRR0Q.pgp
Description: PGP signature

esound with libasound2

[Ryuichi Arafune]

(Please cc me when you reply this message.)
Hello all,

As I said in Bug#170915, I would like to do NMU for esound package
built with libasound2.  

I send the mail one week ago, but the current maintainer have not
replied any more.  

any objections?  

As in #170923, we have newer version of esound.  If
there is no objections about NMU, I would like to upload for this new
version of esound.

Re: esound with libasound2

[Ryan Murray]

On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 01:48:12PM +0900, Ryuichi Arafune wrote:
> any objections?  

This is an ABI change, and as ALSA 0.5 is still the stable release, (and
the only one that seems to work for me) I don't want to change it yet.

> As in #170923, we have newer version of esound.  If

Debian esound has several changes from upstream.  The new upstream version
doesn't have many changes, and some of them are already in the package,
which is why I haven't updated it.

> there is no objections about NMU, I would like to upload for this new
> version of esound.

Please do not.

-- 
Ryan Murray, Debian Developer ([EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED])
The opinions expressed here are my own.


pgpKQf6bfIQ6E.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Build problems on s390 & hppa (compiler/assembler bugs?)

[Carlos O'Donell]

> The second problem is an internal compiler error on hppa:
> ...
> gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I.. -DINET6 -DPREFIX=\"/usr\" 
> -DSYSCONFDIR=\"/etc\" -DDATADIR=\"/usr/share\" -DLIBDIR=\"/usr/lib\" -O -g3 
> -Wall -Wcast-align -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes 
> -Wmissing-declarations -Wpointer-arith -Wnested-externs -D_REENTRANT -MT 
> htscore.lo -MD -MP -MF .deps/htscore.Tpo -c htscore.c  -fPIC -DPIC -o 
> .libs/htscore.lo
> htscore.c: In function `httpmirror':
> htscore.c:2720: Internal compiler error in output_cbranch, at 
> config/pa/pa.c:5159
> Please submit a full bug report,
> with preprocessed source if appropriate.
> See http://www.gnu.org/software/gcc/bugs.html> for instructions.
> make[4]: *** [htscore.lo] Error 1
> 
> The line 2720 is the end of a quite long function, which is the main 
> html/javascript/css parser code (difficult to split into parts), but I don't 
> really see what's the problem.
> 
> What is the best way to handle this problem? I don't have access to the hppa 
> machine yet (as not-yet-debian-developper), and I did not see any bugreport 
> for this specific problem on gcc.gnu.org.

Have you tried compiling this with gcc-3.2 under hppa? We've put a lot
of work into the newer compilers.

If I can get the source for this I can test it on an hppa box.

c.