Re: automatic selection which kernel image to install

[sean finney]

On Wed, Nov 27, 2002 at 06:45:21PM -0500, Michael Stone wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 09:55:52AM +1100, Brian May wrote:
> >Ideally have some way for the user to override the default choice if
> >automatic selection fails...
> 
> Can you detect smp from non-smp kernel?

i would guess not...


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Re: new build system

[Colin Walters]

On Wed, 2002-11-27 at 12:37, Mateusz Papiernik wrote:
> > But unlike dpkg-source v2, you can start using CBS right now. Sound
> > interesting?  Here's the URL where you can download CBS:
> > http://cvs.verbum.org/debian/rules
> 
> Yes, it sounds interesting, but I had a problems with CBS and two 
> packages (mainly GNU Gadu 2 from cvs and Kadu from kadu.net). It's all
> ok, but when I do "debuild", at compile stage, it cannot find includes,
> for example, when I type make manually I see:
> 
> gcc -c -o -I.. -I../.. -ggdb -O2 common.c
> 
> but when I do debuild or dpkg-buildpackage I see
> 
> gcc -c -o -ggdb -O2 common.c

That's because your upstream's build system is broken; the CBS make
invocation sets CFLAGS, and your upstream's Makefile isn't properly
coded to keep other flags like -I around when CFLAGS is set.

A temporary workaround is to just override the rule and not set CFLAGS;
the real solution is to fix the Makefile so that this works.

Re: new build system

[Miles Bader]

Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> your upstream's Makefile isn't properly
> coded to keep other flags like -I around when CFLAGS is set.
> 
> the real solution is to fix the Makefile so that this works.

Human users will also appreciate such a fix...

-Miles
-- 
`Life is a boundless sea of bitterness'

Re: DAM approval wait time?

[Herbert Xu]

Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> Surely you aren't suggesting that everyone has a right to post opinions
> about any subject on debian-devel, on the grounds that the mailing list
> is open to the public?  We already have extensive filters in place on
> our mailing lists to block messages from a group of people who believe
> they have a right to be heard in email -- spammers.  This mailing list
> does not legally qualify as a "public forum" for several reasons.

If we start imposing limits on what people can post here other than
spam, then I suggest that we start by banning Steve Langasek from
posting.
-- 
Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 is out! ( http://www.debian.org/ )
Email:  Herbert Xu ~{PmV>HI~} <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Home Page: http://gondor.apana.org.au/~herbert/
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Re: Pick a name, any name...

[Drew Parsons]

On Wed, Nov 27, 2002 at 12:01:15PM +0100, Emile van Bergen wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Wed, Nov 27, 2002 at 11:55:56AM +0100, Roberto Suarez Soto wrote:
> 
> > On Nov/27, Emile van Bergen wrote:
> > 
> > > What about Avalon? Both a composer (well, hmm) and the place where
> > > Excalibur was forged.
> > 
> > Being about forging, "Orodruin" comes also to mind ;-)
> 
> Yes, although there's already an orodruin.sourceforge.net and Mount Doom
> is not altogether a nice place ;-))
> 

How about hollin.debian.org, or eregion.debian.org, the Elfen kingdom
outside Moria (what language was "speak friend, and enter" written in?)
where the Three were forged?

Drew

-- 
PGP public key available at http://people.debian.org/~dparsons/drewskey.txt
Fingerprint: A110 EAE1 D7D2 8076 5FE0  EC0A B6CE 7041 6412 4E4A


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Re: automatic selection which kernel image to install

[Stephen Zander]

> "sean" == sean finney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
sean> i would guess not...

/proc/cpuinfo.

Of course if the user doesn't start out using an smp kernel, they
clearly don't need one.

-- 
Stephen

"So if she weighs the same as a duck, she's made of wood."... "And
therefore?"... "A witch!"

US Turkey Day!

[Sean Harshbarger]

I just wanted to wish all those who celebrate Thanks Giving today and
wish everyone a happy and safe day. Eat lots of turkey...drink lots of
beer...and watch football!

-- 
Sean Harshbarger (NO I DIDNT BURN CARS AFTER THE OSU VS MICHIGAN GAME YOU 
FOOLS! 
I AM A CALM BUCKEYE!) harsy


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Re: automatic selection which kernel image to install

[Jonathan Oxer]

On Thu, 2002-11-28 at 19:00, Stephen Zander wrote:
> > "sean" == sean finney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> sean> i would guess not...
> 
> /proc/cpuinfo.
> 
> Of course if the user doesn't start out using an smp kernel, they
> clearly don't need one.

Not necessarily. One obvious application for this would be in an
installer, which would presumably boot a lowest-common-denominator
kernel for maximum compatibility.

One possible workaround is trying to detect the mobo type and match that
to a list of SMP mobos, but that strikes me as a dodgy solution.

After typing the above I had a squiz in /var/log/dmesg on a handy
non-SMP machine, and what did I find? This:

"SMP motherboard not detected."

Then on a SMP machine, and found this:

"Intel MultiProcessor Specification v1.1"

Hm.

Jonathan Oxer
Ph +61 3 9723 9399 / Fx +61 3 9723 4899
GPG key: http://www.ivt.com.au/gpg/jon.oxer.gpg


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Re: gpg-agent?

[martin f krafft]

also sprach Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.11.28.0441 +0100]:
> By this I assume you mean it does something like store the passphrase in
> non-swappable memory and then when requested use some form of IPC to
> feed it into a /usr/bin/gpg process. I assume it hardcodes the path,
> which would prevent you (or someone who has access to your account) from
> creating a ~/bin/gpg that asks it for the passphrase and dumps it to
> stdout.

I don't know the details.

> That would still let root replace /usr/bin/gpg with such a program
> though.

root could replace ssh-add with a trojan to get your SSH passphrase.
if you don't trust root, don't use the system.

> So something like this is of some value, but only manages to narrow
> the window that lets someone who has temporary access to, say,
> a laptop with an agent running and a passphrase entered, to such
> a laptop on which you have used sudo in the last 15 minutes. Correct
> me if I'm wrong.

You are right. The same applies to everything else though.

> q-agent is a PITA to get working with stuff like mutt though, so I do
> look forward to using gpg-agent. I just think I'd guard my laptop with
> my mail signing key on it about the same no matter which agent I had
> running.

Right.

-- 
 .''`. martin f. krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
: :'  :proud Debian developer, admin, and user
`. `'`
  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing a system
 
NOTE: The public PGP keyservers are broken!
Get my key here: http://people.debian.org/~madduck/gpg/330c4a75.asc


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Re: debconf template translations from ddtp

[Denis Barbier]

On Wed, Nov 27, 2002 at 05:11:26PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote:
[...]
> And of course base-config is in debian cvs where anyone can check in a
> translation
[...]

Being able to automatically extract upstream homepage URL from package
meta-data has already been discussed (even if I don't remember clearly
where this discussion has gone), but having a standardized way to
extract URLs for development version would also be very helpful.

Denis

Bug#171045: ITP: snortconf -- A menu based interface to configuring Snort 1.9.0 and up

[Rens Houben]

Package: wnpp
Version: unavailable; reported 2002-11-28
Severity: wishlist

* Package name: snortconf
  Version : 0.4.2
  Upstream Author : A.L. Lambert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://www.xjack.org/snortconf
* License : GPL
  Description : A menu based interface to configuring Snort 1.9.0 and up

  From the website:

SnortConf is a tool that provides an intuitive, easy to use menu-based
interface for setting up the configuration file of the GPL IDS tool
Snort. It provides error and sanity checking on user input, and an
online help facility. It aims to ease the pain of the first time Snort
user getting everything properly configured and running. 


-- System Information:
Debian Release: testing/unstable
Architecture: i386
Kernel: Linux hiryuu 2.4.20-rc1-ac1 #1 Thu Nov 14 15:34:59 CET 2002 i686
Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=C

Re: Pick a name, any name...

[Bas Zoetekouw]

Hi Oohara!

You wrote:

> Why does Debian host the Sourceforge site?  I don't see anything
> between sf.net and debian.org .

You misunderstand.  Debian will host _its_own_ sourforge-like
environment, for developers.

-- 
Kind regards,
++
| Bas Zoetekouw  | GPG key: 0644fab7 |
|| Fingerprint: c1f5 f24c d514 3fec 8bf6 |
| [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] |  a2b1 2bae e41f 0644 fab7 |
++ 

Re: automatic selection which kernel image to install

[Thomas Poindessous]

* Stephen Zander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002-11-28 09:05]:
> > "sean" == sean finney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> /proc/cpuinfo.

it doesn't work with a non-smp kernel.
but 

dmesg | grep Processors seems to work (on x86, 2.4 kernel).
 
> Of course if the user doesn't start out using an smp kernel, they
> clearly don't need one.

I think that the default kernel for debian-installer will be a non-smp
one. And if the system is smp, it would be great to let the user choose if
he want a smp kernel or not.

-- 
Thomas Poindessous

Re: [desktop] foomatic-gui is born

[Jules Bean]

On Wed, Nov 27, 2002 at 10:13:22AM -0200, Gustavo Noronha Silva wrote:
> Em Wed, 27 Nov 2002 02:21:47 -0600, Chris Lawrence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> escreveu:
> 
> > Yes, some sort of "su to root" prompt is probably a good idea; dunno
> > if I can reuse the existing code or what.  If not, something similar
> > probably won't be hard to whip together (although I guess we probably
> > have half a dozen "graphical su"s in Debian already).
> > 
> > FWIW, the GNOME System Tools root prompts don't seem to work for me...
> > 
> > Probably the best approach would be to use something like gksu in the
> > menu entry; why reinvent the wheel?
> 
> It would be good if we had a standard way of doing that... I talked to
> walters about this some weeks ago, and he suggested it would be a good
> thing to merge xsu, gnome-sudo and gksu (maybe others?).

FWIW, I think this is very important...

Something that (e.g.) Mac OS X has over linux is an elegant way to
acquire (some) admin privileges in a graphical context. I think Debian
needs this badly...

Jules

Re: gpg-agent?

[Andreas Fuchs]

On 2002-11-27, Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> That would still let root replace /usr/bin/gpg with such a program
> though. So something like this is of some value, but only manages to
> narrow the window that lets someone who has temporary access to, say,
> a laptop with an agent running and a passphrase entered, to such a
> laptop on which you have used sudo in the last 15 minutes. Correct me
> if I'm wrong.

I find it interesting that you point this out, because I was just
wondering wether it would be possible to just open(2) the file
/usr/bin/gpg and exec(2) this file via the file descriptor from this
open(2) calland not the path name.

Root, of course, could still replace the /usr/bin/gpg program and get
away with it, but this seems to me to guarantee that the binary can not
be stolen away under the unsuspecting user's noses.

Have fun,
-- 
Andreas Fuchs, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED], antifuchs
Hail RMS! Hail Cthulhu! Hail Eris! All hail Discordia!


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Re: location of UnicodeData.txt

[Tim Dijkstra]

On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 16:53:00 -0500
Branden Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 27, 2002 at 04:23:51PM -0500, Jim Penny wrote:
> > > I see no problem with this license as far as it goes, but it
> > > doesn't go far enough.
> > > 
> > > There is no permission granted to make modifications (and
> > > distribute modified versions).  (DFSG 3)
> > 
> > So, according to Branden, international standards are supposed to
> > allow debian the right to modify them and to distribute the modified
> > versions.  
> 
> No, international standards can say whatever they want, and bear
> whatever license the standards organization wants, within the law.
> 
> Debian has its Free Software Guidelines and we do not, in theory,
> apply them differently based on who the licensor is.
> 

So doesn't this mean it's time to change the social contract or the DFSG
(are standards software?) to make an exception for 'documents and files
describing standards'. It's clear that we can't live without them (hence
should be in main), and it is also clear there is no use in changing
standards on you're own.

And no I can't make an amendment, I'm not a DD.

Tim

Re: gpg-agent?

[Alexander Zangerl]

On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 22:41:29 EST, Joey Hess writes:
>q-agent is a PITA to get working with stuff like mutt though, so I do
>look forward to using gpg-agent. 


What for? signing/encrypting stuff? if so, maybe have a look at kuvert.


>I just think I'd guard my laptop with
>my mail signing key on it about the same no matter which agent I had
>running.

of course. as soon as you cache with anything you'll have to be as
careful as possible. the point in favour of q-agent, gpg-agent and similar:
if used right, that's the one and only place passwords/phrases are lingering.

(that's why fetchmail on my box mustn't cache, exmh has to use q-agent 
etc. pp)

regards
az

-- 
+ Alexander Zangerl + [EMAIL PROTECTED] + DSA 42BD645D + (RSA 5B586291)
Hit any user to continue.


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Re: Pick a name, any name...

[Jesus Climent]

On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 06:42:27PM +1100, Drew Parsons wrote:
> 
> How about hollin.debian.org, or eregion.debian.org, the Elfen kingdom
> outside Moria (what language was "speak friend, and enter" written in?)

Elfic?

The line below the heading is written in Sindarin, the language of the
elves, in the mode of Beleriand and reads: ... Speak, friend, and enter.

The Lord of the Rings - The Fellowship of the Ring, Chapter 4, "A 
Journey in the Dark").

-- 
Jesus Climent | Unix SysAdm | Helsinki, Finland | pumuki.hispalinux.es
GPG: 1024D/86946D69 BB64 2339 1CAA 7064 E429  7E18 66FC 1D7F 8694 6D69
--
 Registered Linux user #66350 proudly using Debian 3.0 & Linux 2.4.20

Where are you going, Starfish and Friends?
--Chad (Charlie's Angels)


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Re: Pick a name, any name...

[Josip Rodin]

On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 10:54:52AM +0100, Bas Zoetekouw wrote:
> > Why does Debian host the Sourceforge site?  I don't see anything
> > between sf.net and debian.org .
> 
> You misunderstand.  Debian will host _its_own_ sourforge-like
> environment, for developers.

Not just for developers, for everyone else. At least that's what I gathered
from the talk about separating existing (developer) user accounts from those
created by the SF software.

(I would also like to see this in action, but from the current perspective,
if it's going to be like SF proper then I'm not too favourably inclined
towards it... but then, we have all sorts of questionable stuff named
*.debian.org ;)

-- 
 2. That which causes joy or happiness.

How to validate Debian woody CDs?

[Jochen Voss]

Hello,

a friend of mine recently bought some Debian woody CDs.
Because the CDs do not look very official she wants to
verify that these are really Debian CDs and not something
trojanized.

I suggested to her to compare the output of

md5sum /dev/cdrom

with the corresponding values from

http://cdimage.debian.org/jigdo-area/current/jigdo/i386/MD5SUMS

Is this a good way to check wheter the CDs are official
Debian CDs?

The result was that the checksums did match for CD #1, but
did NOT match for the remaining CDs.  When she asked the
dealer he told her, that this does not indicate a problem,
but could be caused by "additional bits at the beginning or
end of the CD".  Does this make sense?

Jochen
-- 
 Omm
  (0)-(0)
http://www.mathematik.uni-kl.de/~wwwstoch/voss/privat.html


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Re: location of UnicodeData.txt

[Giacomo Catenazzi]

Tim Dijkstra wrote:
So doesn't this mean it's time to change the social contract or the DFSG
(are standards software?) to make an exception for 'documents and files
describing standards'. It's clear that we can't live without them (hence
should be in main), and it is also clear there is no use in changing
standards on you're own.
No, we can live without standard in main. I never read ISO C and POSIX
standards (because these was non free (like free beer)). But
I program GNU/Linux in C. Also the RFC are not enough free, but I see
no problem readint it in non-free.
It would better to have those standard in 'main' and to be able
to modify (translate, correct, collect, simplify,..), but yet...
UnicodeData is different, because we need the data in our program,
not only the ideas. And it this case we see that as software!
Are database (tables) copyrightable? (IIRC there was some discussion
in US, but anyway, in the 'free world', IMO data are free.
ciao
giacomo

Re: Pick a name, any name...

[Jérôme Marant]

Josip Rodin wrote:
On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 10:54:52AM +0100, Bas Zoetekouw wrote:
 

Why does Debian host the Sourceforge site?  I don't see anything
between sf.net and debian.org .
 

You misunderstand.  Debian will host _its_own_ sourforge-like
environment, for developers.
   

Not just for developers, for everyone else. At least that's what I gathered
from the talk about separating existing (developer) user accounts from those
created by the SF software.
 

I hope it is for packaging activities and debian-related stuff only.
Cheers,

Re: location of UnicodeData.txt

[Tim Dijkstra]

On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 13:55:31 +0100
Giacomo Catenazzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> No, we can live without standard in main. I never read ISO C and POSIX
> standards (because these was non free (like free beer)). But
> I program GNU/Linux in C. Also the RFC are not enough free, but I see
> no problem readint it in non-free.
> 
> It would better to have those standard in 'main' and to be able
> to modify (translate, correct, collect, simplify,..), but yet...
There is no use in changing standards without agreeing on it in some
forum.

> UnicodeData is different, because we need the data in our program,
> not only the ideas. And it this case we see that as software!
 
Maybe you're right that we don't really need the rfc's in main. They
actually are now and it would be a shame if we dropped them. But we need
files like this unicode file in main, which is part of a specification
(I think), so can't  be altered.

grts Tim

Re: Restoring the GPG Key Signing Coordination page

[Bas Zoetekouw]

Hi Martin!

You wrote:

>   - If you have updated your entries following my mail, these changes
> have been lost.  Please login again and update your entries.  Those
> who have requested a new password following my mail should have
> received a new passwd by email by now (If not, just email me).

Could you please send me a new password?

-- 
Kind regards,
++
| Bas Zoetekouw  | GPG key: 0644fab7 |
|| Fingerprint: c1f5 f24c d514 3fec 8bf6 |
| [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] |  a2b1 2bae e41f 0644 fab7 |
++ 

Re: Restoring the GPG Key Signing Coordination page

[Martin Michlmayr]

* Bas Zoetekouw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002-11-28 15:00]:
> Could you please send me a new password?

done.

-- 
Martin Michlmayr
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: gpg-agent?

[Joey Hess]

Andreas Fuchs wrote:
> I find it interesting that you point this out, because I was just
> wondering wether it would be possible to just open(2) the file
> /usr/bin/gpg and exec(2) this file via the file descriptor from this
> open(2) calland not the path name.

Yeah, you could do that (on linux anyway; at the ugliest you might have
to run the link to the fd from /proc). And it'd work, until you upgraded
gpg with a running gpg-agent, at least.

-- 
see shy jo


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Re: Pick a name, any name...

[Ben Armstrong]

On Wed, Nov 27, 2002 at 05:34:20PM -0800, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote:
> hey how about something much less cryptic like "forge".  Nothing worse than 
> having to guess what woman's name some silly coder named the program I am 
> looking for.
> 
> And since most of us aren't French the names mean very little.  But that is 
> much less important.

Bah, that's what CNAME is for.  We have www. cvs. etc.  Sure, give the
system hosting the service a generic CNAME pointer, but a system's canonical
name itself has to have some character.

Ben
-- 
nSLUG   http://www.nslug.ns.ca  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Debian  http://www.debian.org   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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[ gpg key fingerprint = 395C F3A4 35D3 D247 1387  2D9E 5A94 F3CA 0B27 13C8 ]

Re: Pick a name, any name...

[Martin Michlmayr]

* Ben Armstrong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002-11-28 10:49]:
> Bah, that's what CNAME is for.  We have www. cvs. etc.  Sure, give
> the system hosting the service a generic CNAME pointer, but a
> system's canonical name itself has to have some character.

The machine itself has a name already (quantz).
-- 
Martin Michlmayr
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Dummy packages for feature dependencies

[Andrew Chadwick]

If a packaged program contains a Suggests:ed feature that is linked at 
runtime when a user does something special, perhaps via dlopen(3), then 
the program may appear to fail mysteriously if the library the feature 
depends on has different calling conventions or symbols from the one the 
program was built and tested against.

Would it make sense for these cases to be covered by extra debian 
packages, perhaps with a  -feature suffix to the name, which contain 
concrete dependencies?  That way the admin will be able to assure his 
users that an upgrade won't break things.


Case in point: mutt's IMAPS capability depends on a specific version of
libgnutls5 being present, or it complains about a missing symbol and
hides your mail from you when you try to access a mailbox starting with
"imaps://".


Regards,

-- 
Andrew Chadwick



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Re: US Turkey Day!

[Jeff Waugh]

> I just wanted to wish all those who celebrate Thanks Giving today and wish
> everyone a happy and safe day. Eat lots of turkey...drink lots of
> beer...and watch football!

And, for the Americans in the crowd: http://gnome.org/

- Jeff

-- 
   "PHP, when it first came out, didn't really have any merits, and many
claim it still doesn't, but it filled a void where a simple tool to 
perform a simple task was needed." - Rasmus Lerdorf 

Re: Pick a name, any name...

[Ben Armstrong]

On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 04:11:26PM +0100, Martin Michlmayr wrote:
> The machine itself has a name already (quantz).

Oh, I retract my objection then.  If the machine has a name already, why
bother naming the service something obscure? Service names should be easy to
remember.

Ben
-- 
nSLUG   http://www.nslug.ns.ca  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Debian  http://www.debian.org   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Pick a name, any name...

[Mateusz Papiernik]

> The machine itself has a name already (quantz).
yes :) but maybe it will be better to do some IN A records? In this way,
ping cvs.sth.debian.org will ping cvs.sth.debian.org, not
quantz.debian.org (I mean address which ping show).




-- 
Mati ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Sounds like a Windows problem, try calling Microsoft support

Re: Pick a name, any name...

[Roland Mas]

Ben Armstrong (2002-11-28 11:14:50 -0400) :

> On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 04:11:26PM +0100, Martin Michlmayr wrote:
>> The machine itself has a name already (quantz).
>
> Oh, I retract my objection then.  If the machine has a name already,
> why bother naming the service something obscure? Service names
> should be easy to remember.

  Think "non-us" or "security" vs. "satie", "people" vs. "gluck", etc.

Roland.
-- 
Roland Mas

Two elephants fell off a cliff.
Boom, boom.

Re: Pick a name, any name...

[Ben Armstrong]

On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 04:34:45PM +0100, Roland Mas wrote:
> Ben Armstrong (2002-11-28 11:14:50 -0400) :
> > Oh, I retract my objection then.  If the machine has a name already,
> > why bother naming the service something obscure? Service names
> > should be easy to remember.
> 
>   Think "non-us" or "security" vs. "satie", "people" vs. "gluck", etc.

"non-us", "security" and "people" are obscure? :)

Ben
-- 
nSLUG   http://www.nslug.ns.ca  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Debian  http://www.debian.org   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[ pgp key fingerprint = 7F DA 09 4B BA 2C 0D E0  1B B1 31 ED C6 A9 39 4F ]
[ gpg key fingerprint = 395C F3A4 35D3 D247 1387  2D9E 5A94 F3CA 0B27 13C8 ]

Re: Accepted gtk2-engines-magicchicken 1.0.2-1 (i386 source)

[Roland Mas]

Sebastian Henschel (2002-11-28 10:08:11 -0500) :

>* Added an empty postinst to prevent dh_installdocs from deprecated
>  linking from /usr/doc to /usr/share/doc.

That's an ugly hack.  Please use DH_COMPAT=4 instead.

Roland.
-- 
Roland Mas

Food, shelter, source code.
  -- Cyclic Software

deb-src

[Jon Kent]

Hi,

been playing with deb-src to see how it works. 
Interesting little utility.  I noticed when it started
the old ./configure that the arch was set to i386, but
I prefer to have this set to my arch.  I can't find
anything in the docs that says if this is possible or
not, anyone have any ideas?  I was also wondering if
it is possible to  set any other flags on the command
line such as omitframepointer?

Thanks

Jon


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Re: Pick a name, any name...

[Roland Mas]

Ben Armstrong (2002-11-28 11:37:44 -0400) :

> On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 04:34:45PM +0100, Roland Mas wrote:
>> Ben Armstrong (2002-11-28 11:14:50 -0400) :
>> > Oh, I retract my objection then.  If the machine has a name already,
>> > why bother naming the service something obscure? Service names
>> > should be easy to remember.
>> 
>>   Think "non-us" or "security" vs. "satie", "people" vs. "gluck", etc.
>
> "non-us", "security" and "people" are obscure? :)

No.  But they document a function rather than a box.

  Oh, and by the way, it can't be quantz, since it won't have the same
IP address.  Unless someone comes up with a patch to make the
sourceforge-web-apache package work with apache2 in the next three
hours, of course :-)

Roland.
-- 
Roland Mas

Bee There Orr Bee A Rectangular Thyng!
  -- in Soul Music (Terry Pratchett)

Re: Pick a name, any name...

[Eduard Bloch]

#include 
* Roland Mas [Wed, Nov 27 2002, 11:03:58AM]:

>   The code is almost ready, the server itself should be OK soon (if
> not already), and Wichert and I even managed to find a time where both
> of us can be on the same IRC network at the same time.
> 
>   Now for the *real* important debate: how to call it?

Please make a name that is _short_. I thinkg sf.debian.org is
self-explaining, since people are used to take it as abbreaviation for
sourceforge (as sf.net).

Gruss/Regards,
Eduard.
-- 
Eingedeutschte Fehlermeldungen sind doch etwas 
schoenes: "Kein Weltraum links auf dem Geraet" 

Re: Dummy packages for feature dependencies

[Josselin Mouette]

Le jeu 28/11/2002 à 16:11, Andrew Chadwick a écrit :

> Would it make sense for these cases to be covered by extra debian 
> packages, perhaps with a  -feature suffix to the name, which contain 
> concrete dependencies?  That way the admin will be able to assure his 
> users that an upgrade won't break things.

> Case in point: mutt's IMAPS capability depends on a specific version of
> libgnutls5 being present, or it complains about a missing symbol and
> hides your mail from you when you try to access a mailbox starting with
> "imaps://".

I have encountered this kind of problem with hdf5, which changes its ABI
at every single binary version. You can solve this using a virtual
package, say let libgnutls5 Provides: libgnutls-$version and mutt depend
on that virtual package. Problem is, you need to rebuild all packages
depending on such virtual packages at each upstream version bump, but
there is not much choice.

-- 
 .''`.   Josselin Mouette/\./\
: :' :   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
`. `'[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  `-  Debian GNU/Linux -- The power of freedom


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Re: location of UnicodeData.txt

[Richard Braakman]

On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 02:58:38PM +0100, Tim Dijkstra wrote:
> > UnicodeData is different, because we need the data in our program,
> > not only the ideas. And it this case we see that as software!
>  
> Maybe you're right that we don't really need the rfc's in main. They
> actually are now and it would be a shame if we dropped them. But we need
> files like this unicode file in main, which is part of a specification
> (I think), so can't  be altered.

But do you think it's _okay_ for such a file not to be free?  (Whether
it actually is or not is a topic for debian-legal).

We could be stuck with programs that we can't modify to support new
languages, for example. 

Richard Braakman

Re: location of UnicodeData.txt

[John Hasler]

Richard Braakman writes:
> But do you think it's _okay_ for such a file not to be free? 

/usr/share/perl/5.8.0/unicore/UnicodeData.txt, which I assume is the file
you are talking about, contains just a table of data.  Unless its creation
involved creativity rather than just "sweat of the brow" it is not
protected by copyright.
-- 
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI

Re: DAM approval wait time?

[Jim Lynch]

On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 11:58:38 +1100
Andrew Lau <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 27, 2002 at 12:21:40PM -0800, Jim Lynch wrote:
> > >   A bit hypocritical of you pointing out that I was
> > > participating in my own thread late.
> > 
> > Not at all. The thread I refer to is the now-very-large "Are we
> > losing users to Gentoo" thread, which you have not participated in
> > since your inception of it.
> 
> I was referring to your own post to my "DAM approval wait time"
> outburst. Before this email, I had made some attempt at contributing
> to the discussion with two posts in the little free time I have.

Unless you think it's actually useful, perhaps you shouldn't start
a thread you know you can't participate in. If you're not even willing
to read from it, I continue to question your maturity.

> > Lots of material in that thread... should we expect some of it to be
> > used at DP and some in your exit thesis? Sorry, but I'm not putting
> > this past you.
> 
> I no longer write articles or editorials for Debian Planet

Why not?

> and I have
> never done or never will start a debate on a mailing list as a flimsy
> excuse for writing an article.

Then why did you start a discussion you couldn't participate in?

> Like you and everyone else here, I too
> am entitled to form an opinion of my own and be able to express them
> in a public forum.

I think you should participate in discussions you start. That's just
one example of responsibility; it would have shown that you tend to
finish what you start.

> > > I have to ask, are you pursuing some kind of vendetta against me?
> > > I can't explain why else you are digging everything you know about
> > > me and using whatever I may have said on #debian years ago against
> > > me.
> > 
> > All I'm doing in the post you replied to is asking the question
> > "What exactly do you intend to do as a debian developer?", a
> > question reflected in the process of your NM app. You should simply
> > answer it.
> 
> I have answered already this question. I package and maintain software
> for Debian GNU/Linux.
> 
> > On the other hand, seeing the thread you started with material you
> > -know- to be inflamitory, I am led to question your maturity. As I
> > mention below, however, the ensuing discussion may lead to some good
> > results.
> 
> Aren't you deliberately inflaming me right now?
> 
> > Good, but some of your other statements contradict this...
> > 
> >I might as well stop telling others that Debian is more
> >than just a distribution, but a community and just throw my packages
> >out the window.
> > 
> > And here's a statement that shows intent to produce a flame war:
> > 
> >Bring on the fucking flame-war. Something has to burn. Might as well
> >be me.
> > 
> > Both of these from Message-ID:
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>. And that is from -this- thread.
> > 
> > PLEASE grow up.
> 
> Thanks to the silent treatment I am receiving from the DAM and barrage
> of abuse directed at me from people such as yourself and others in
> #debian-devel I really do question if my participation in the Debian
> community is respected or my mere presence is welcome. That thread was
> just one of those moments when I have come close to just walking away
> from it all.
> 
> > Summary, I'm not so happy with your present level of maturity and a
> > few of your actions as a result, but I also see you're making some
> > effort.
> 
> You have some nerve there Jim flaunting your arrogance like that. I
> have tried to reply to you in a rational and polite manner, but I have
> come to the conclusion that no matter what I say or do, you will
> continue to harass me in public.

I might, as long as you fail to participate in that by-now-horribly-long
flamewar and discussion you started. Funny how you don't mention the good
things I have said about your potential. I don't think you read the whole
posts I make, just as much as I don't believe you don't read the replies
to posts made to your original post about Gentoo.

> You have no right to judge me

Actually, all developers gained that right when you submitted your app.
If you didn't want to be subjected to scrutiny, you shouldn't have 
applied. It's as simple as that. If you think you're not in good company
with you not being approved yet, GO LOOK AT THE NEW MAINT LIST; you will 
find Richard M. Stallman's app. Fact is, you're actually FURTHER than him
in the new maint process; he's stuck for some reason. 

In fact, you seem to be in... your AM has approved you...

> and I
> will no longer entertain your perverted sense of enjoyment in
> attempting to humiliate and belittle people in public.

Again, (continue to) grow up :P and REALLY read what I wrote.

I think it might help when you do go back and read to assume
I'm speaking in a fairly moderate tone. I'm not bellowing at
you, I'm trying to wake you up. Because once you are awake, 
you'll make a fine developer. 

> Good day.
> 
> Andrew "Netsnipe" Lau

-Jim

Re: location of UnicodeData.txt

[Emile van Bergen]

Hi,

On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 10:45:48AM -0600, John Hasler wrote:

> Richard Braakman writes:
> > But do you think it's _okay_ for such a file not to be free? 
> 
> /usr/share/perl/5.8.0/unicore/UnicodeData.txt, which I assume is the file
> you are talking about, contains just a table of data.  Unless its creation
> involved creativity rather than just "sweat of the brow" it is not
> protected by copyright.

I'd say that the definition of Unicode, heck even ASCII, involves a fair
amount of creativity. The question is, is the definition of Unicode, as
a set of named glyphs and encodings, "protected" by copyright? If not,
then a table in a particular format representing that definition and
nothing but that definition is not likely to be copyrightable.

However, in these perverse times, where companies patent hyperlinks, I
honestly have no idea whether Unicode itself is owned but licensed
royalty-free, or as free as say, ASCII or English.

"Newspeak is free for non-commercial and other non-infringing uses, and
when not used to say bad things about Our President. Otherwise, please
contact the worldwite patent bureau for a RAND-license."

Bah.

Cheers,


Emile.

-- 
E-Advies / Emile van Bergen   |   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
tel. +31 (0)70 3906153|   http://www.e-advies.info


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Re: Pick a name, any name...

[Michael Banck]

On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 04:54:04PM +0100, Roland Mas wrote:
>   Oh, and by the way, it can't be quantz, since it won't have the same
> IP address.

IMHO we should go with a french composer (or whatever the scheme was) as
the machine name, and something simple like 'sf' as the service name.

Michael

-- 
 Comparing Neal to Jeroen is like comparing a demi-god to a fool.

Re: location of UnicodeData.txt

[Richard Braakman]

On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 06:07:57PM +0100, Emile van Bergen wrote:
> However, in these perverse times, where companies patent hyperlinks, I
> honestly have no idea whether Unicode itself is owned but licensed
> royalty-free, or as free as say, ASCII or English.

These days I wouldn't be eager to rely on the limits of copyrightability.

   CNN.com - Composer pays for piece of silence - Sep. 23, 2002
   

Richard Braakman

Re: location of UnicodeData.txt

[Mark Brown]

On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 07:33:43PM +0200, Richard Braakman wrote:

> These days I wouldn't be eager to rely on the limits of copyrightability.

>CNN.com - Composer pays for piece of silence - Sep. 23, 2002
>

It's worth pointing out that the major problem there was that the
derived work actually credited the original which would make it much
harder to defend a copyright action.

-- 
"You grabbed my hand and we fell into it, like a daydream - or a fever."

Re: Pick a name, any name...

[Raphael Hertzog]

Le Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 01:57:16PM +0100, Jérôme Marant écrivait:
> I hope it is for packaging activities and debian-related stuff only.

Not really. It is for any free software related project launched by
a Debian developer (ie the project request should come from a Debian
developer).

Of course, any project hosted there should really have Debian
packages from the very beginning.

Cheers,
-- 
Raphaël Hertzog -+- http://www.ouaza.com
Formation Linux et logiciel libre : http://www.logidee.com

Re: location of UnicodeData.txt

[John Hasler]

Emile van Bergen writes:
> I'd say that the definition of Unicode, heck even ASCII, involves a fair
> amount of creativity.

I don't doubt that the development of Unicode involved creativity: under
current law it probably qualifies as a patentable invention.  Inventions
and ideas, however, cannot be copyrighted: only creative works reduced to
tangible form can.  I'm arguing that the _creation_ _of_ _that_ _table_
involved no creativity, not that the invention of Unicode didn't.

Is it possible to create other Unicode tables that serve the same purpose
as that one and differ from it non-trivially?
-- 
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI

Re: location of UnicodeData.txt

[Emile van Bergen]

Hi,

On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 11:47:52AM -0600, John Hasler wrote:

> Emile van Bergen writes:
> > I'd say that the definition of Unicode, heck even ASCII, involves a fair
> > amount of creativity.
> 
> I don't doubt that the development of Unicode involved creativity: under
> current law it probably qualifies as a patentable invention.  Inventions
> and ideas, however, cannot be copyrighted: only creative works reduced to
> tangible form can.  I'm arguing that the _creation_ _of_ _that_ _table_
> involved no creativity, not that the invention of Unicode didn't.

Well, so you say that if I write a novel, all my creativity is in the
abstract idea; putting the words down involved no extra creativity; thus
the sequence of words cannot be copyrighted?

I think your argument doesn't help here...

> Is it possible to create other Unicode tables that serve the same purpose
> as that one and differ from it non-trivially?

Good question. Under your reasoning, merely writing the list down from
the unicode spec, possibly using | as separators instead of :, should do
the trick.

Cheers,


Emile.

-- 
E-Advies / Emile van Bergen   |   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
tel. +31 (0)70 3906153|   http://www.e-advies.info


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Re: How to validate Debian woody CDs?

[Richard Atterer]

On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 01:51:02PM +0100, Jochen Voss wrote:
> Is this a good way to check wheter the CDs are official Debian CDs?

Yes! Except md5sum should be called differently, see below.

> The result was that the checksums did match for CD #1, but did NOT
> match for the remaining CDs. When she asked the dealer he told her,
> that this does not indicate a problem, but could be caused by
> "additional bits at the beginning or end of the CD". Does this make
> sense?

It does, unfortunately ("at the end", at least).

According to the mkisofs docs, many OSs break if the length of a CD is
not a multiple of the OS page size, or something like that. To avoid
this problem, mkisofs adds a few sectors of zeroes to the end of the
CD image. These zeroes are included in the md5sum.

However, when writing the image to CD, I think some programs add yet
more padding to the end of the written data, "just to be safe". 
cdrecord needs an explicit "-pad" to do this, but other programs may
add the padding by default.

But it is possible to pass the correct data to md5sum:

First, mount the CD. Just working on the unmounted device doesn't
always seem to work. Then, try one of two things:

  cat /dev/cdrom | md5sum

Apparently, this is preferable to "md5sum /dev/cdrom" because cat does
a better job of really reading all the available data - YMMV. I'm not
sure whether the above will work if more padding was added e.g. by
cdrecord, so better try the alternative:

  dd if=/dev/cdrom bs=1k count=# | md5sum

where the # is the "1k-blocks" value from the output of
"df /cdrom".

HTH,

  Richard

-- 
  __   _
  |_) /|  Richard Atterer |  CS student at the Technische  |  GnuPG key:
  | \/¯|  http://atterer.net  |  Universität München, Germany  |  0x888354F7
  ¯ '` ¯


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Re: deb-src

[Matt Zimmerman]

On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 07:53:53AM -0800, Jon Kent wrote:

> been playing with deb-src to see how it works. 
> Interesting little utility.

What and where is deb-src?

-- 
 - mdz

Re: location of UnicodeData.txt

[Tim Dijkstra]

On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 17:57:35 +0200
Richard Braakman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 02:58:38PM +0100, Tim Dijkstra wrote:
> > > UnicodeData is different, because we need the data in our program,
> > > not only the ideas. And it this case we see that as software!
> >  
> > Maybe you're right that we don't really need the rfc's in main. They
> > actually are now and it would be a shame if we dropped them. But we
> > need files like this unicode file in main, which is part of a
> > specification(I think), so can't  be altered.
> 
> But do you think it's _okay_ for such a file not to be free?  (Whether
> it actually is or not is a topic for debian-legal).
> 
What I mean to say is that it's useless to demand that you can modify a
'standard', so yes, I think it's OK that it is DSFG non-free. What is
the use of changing this unicode table, but not telling the rest of the
world?

grts Tim

Re: Accepted gtk2-engines-magicchicken 1.0.2-1 (i386 source)

[Colin Watson]

On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 04:42:30PM +0100, Roland Mas wrote:
> Sebastian Henschel (2002-11-28 10:08:11 -0500) :
> >* Added an empty postinst to prevent dh_installdocs from deprecated
> >  linking from /usr/doc to /usr/share/doc.
> 
> That's an ugly hack.  Please use DH_COMPAT=4 instead.

The compatibility level appears to make no difference:

  [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$ grep compat /usr/bin/dh_installdocs
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$

You need Build-Depends{,-Indep}: debhelper (>= 4.1.0) for this, not a
particular setting of DH_COMPAT.

Cheers,

-- 
Colin Watson  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: deb-src

[Colin Watson]

On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 07:53:53AM -0800, Jon Kent wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> been playing with deb-src to see how it works. 
> Interesting little utility.

apt-src?

> I noticed when it started the old ./configure that the arch was set to
> i386, but I prefer to have this set to my arch.

Don't fool with the Debian architecture name. It might be better to
install pentium-builder instead.

-- 
Colin Watson  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Accepted gtk2-engines-magicchicken 1.0.2-1 (i386 source)

[Paul Cupis]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Thursday 28 November 2002 15:42, Roland Mas wrote:
> Sebastian Henschel (2002-11-28 10:08:11 -0500) :
> >* Added an empty postinst to prevent dh_installdocs from deprecated
> >  linking from /usr/doc to /usr/share/doc.
>
> That's an ugly hack.  Please use DH_COMPAT=4 instead.

Or dh_installdocs -n (a non-ugly hack :)

Paul Cupis
- -- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (GNU/Linux)

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=7wV8
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Re: DAM approval wait time?

[Lukas Geyer]

Jim Lynch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 11:58:38 +1100
> Andrew Lau <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > I was referring to your own post to my "DAM approval wait time"
> > outburst. Before this email, I had made some attempt at contributing
> > to the discussion with two posts in the little free time I have.
> 
> Unless you think it's actually useful, perhaps you shouldn't start
> a thread you know you can't participate in. If you're not even willing
> to read from it, I continue to question your maturity.

If he thinks there is an urgent matter, and then he drowns in exam
stress, why is that a sign of immaturity? The thread will only
survive if other people are interested enough to keep it going, and it
may have important results no matter whether the original poster
participates in it or not.

> Funny how you don't mention the good
> things I have said about your potential. I don't think you read the whole
> posts I make, just as much as I don't believe you don't read the replies
> to posts made to your original post about Gentoo.

I fail to see why he should pick up the good things in your
posts. Overall they are arrogant and belittling, and throwing in some
nice patronizing sugar is just a standard trick of rhetoric.

> > You have no right to judge me
> 
> Actually, all developers gained that right when you submitted your app.
> If you didn't want to be subjected to scrutiny, you shouldn't have 
> applied. It's as simple as that. If you think you're not in good company
> with you not being approved yet, GO LOOK AT THE NEW MAINT LIST; you will 
> find Richard M. Stallman's app. Fact is, you're actually FURTHER than him
> in the new maint process; he's stuck for some reason.
> 
> In fact, you seem to be in... your AM has approved you...

Of course new maintainers are subject to scrutiny but what you are
doing here is some kind of public humiliation, that is completely
different. Funny that you criticized Andrew Suffield for insulting
other people on the list. Should I start publicly pounding on you
because you have an open bug of severity "important" on which you have
not commented since April? I think that would be bad style, like
mentioning that the last 3 uploads of said package were NMUs... Do you
really want _that_ kind of scrutiny on debian-devel?

So please, move this to private mail or, even better, to /dev/null.

Lukas

P.S.: I really mean that you should orphan or RFA packages for which
you have no time/interest anymore.

Re: Accepted gtk2-engines-magicchicken 1.0.2-1 (i386 source)

[Roland Mas]

Colin Watson (2002-11-28 18:40:28 +) :

[...]

> You need Build-Depends{,-Indep}: debhelper (>= 4.1.0) for this, not
> a particular setting of DH_COMPAT.

Well, to be frank, I think you need both :-)

Roland.
-- 
Roland Mas

Why did the elephant cross the road?
Because it was the chicken's day off.

Re: apt-src (was deb-src!)

[Jon Kent]

Hi,

> apt-src?

yup, sorry shouldn't write mail and do other stuff @
the same time.

> Don't fool with the Debian architecture name. It
> might be better to
> install pentium-builder instead.
> 

got that installed I pretty sure.  Actually I was
talking rubbish about it building against i386 arch,
dunno why I thought that.  It builds i686 fine.

However the other question re passing optimization
flags and other such stuff still remains.  Can't see
how you could do it, assuming that you can.  Not big
deal if you can't just would be nice to have.  Any
ideas anyone?

Thanks

Jon


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Re: Accepted gtk2-engines-magicchicken 1.0.2-1 (i386 source)

[Colin Watson]

On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 08:36:20PM +0100, Roland Mas wrote:
> Colin Watson (2002-11-28 18:40:28 +) :
> > You need Build-Depends{,-Indep}: debhelper (>= 4.1.0) for this, not
> > a particular setting of DH_COMPAT.
> 
> Well, to be frank, I think you need both :-)

Why? (If it's a joke and I'm not getting it, ignore me. :))

-- 
Colin Watson  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: location of UnicodeData.txt

[Richard Braakman]

On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 07:02:07PM +0100, Emile van Bergen wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 11:47:52AM -0600, John Hasler wrote:
> > I'm arguing that the _creation_ _of_ _that_ _table_
> > involved no creativity, not that the invention of Unicode didn't.
> 
> Well, so you say that if I write a novel, all my creativity is in the
> abstract idea; putting the words down involved no extra creativity; thus
> the sequence of words cannot be copyrighted?

I don't think I would follow you that far, but I do agree that saying
"it's just a table of data" is no more meaningful than saying "it's
just a sequence of characters".  The nature of the data is relevant.

In this case, the data consists of two main components:
  - A mapping of character codes to character names
  - A list of attributes for each character
Both of these components were carefully designed, with decisions that
involve efficiency tradeoffs (use vs. compression vs. conversion) and
that affect the usefulness of the result.  Some of the decisions are
still controversial.  This data wasn't found engraved on some rock,
and it's not a collection of pre-existing facts, it was created.

> > Is it possible to create other Unicode tables that serve the same purpose
> > as that one and differ from it non-trivially?
> 
> Good question. Under your reasoning, merely writing the list down from
> the unicode spec, possibly using | as separators instead of :, should do
> the trick.

Note that this file _is_ part of the unicode spec.  As far as I know the
character attributes are defined nowhere else.  So "writing the list down
from the unicode spec" means copying the file.

Richard Braakman

Re: location of UnicodeData.txt

[Emile van Bergen]

Hi,

On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 10:47:02PM +0200, Richard Braakman wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 07:02:07PM +0100, Emile van Bergen wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 11:47:52AM -0600, John Hasler wrote:
> >
> > > Is it possible to create other Unicode tables that serve the same purpose
> > > as that one and differ from it non-trivially?
> > 
> > Good question. Under your reasoning, merely writing the list down from
> > the unicode spec, possibly using | as separators instead of :, should do
> > the trick.
> 
> Note that this file _is_ part of the unicode spec.  As far as I know the
> character attributes are defined nowhere else.  So "writing the list down
> from the unicode spec" means copying the file.

So the spec is the implementation, and a copyrighted implementation at
that?

That's lousy, to say the least. So all programs that follow the full
Unicode spec are derived works of the implementation of the standard
found in that copyrighted table, and have to carry the copyright and
disclaimer notice mandated by the Unicode consortium?

If so, Unicode cannot be regarded an unencumbered standard, if you're
strict about it. 

Cheers,


Emile.

-- 
E-Advies / Emile van Bergen   |   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
tel. +31 (0)70 3906153|   http://www.e-advies.info


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Bug#171097: ITP: cryptplug -- Collection of plugins to crytographic engines.

[Jose Carlos Garcia Sogo]

Package: wnpp
Version: unavailable; reported 2002-11-28
Severity: wishlist

* Package name: cryptplug
  Version : 
  Upstream Author : 
Klarälvdalens Datakonsult AB
   - Design and implementation.
g10 Code GmbH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
- Packaging and bug fixes.

* URL : http://www.gnupg.org/
* License : GPL
  Description : Collection of plugins to crytographic engines.

 A collection of plug-ins to cryptographic engines, accessible
 by the crypt-plug interface.  Applications can make use of the crypto
 operations provided by the CryptPlug interface, and the plug-ins
 provided by this package implement the interface for various
 cryptographic engines, like GnuPG.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: testing/unstable
Architecture: i386
Kernel: Linux matrix 2.4.19 #1 jue oct 10 18:41:18 CEST 2002 i686
Locale: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] (ignored: LC_ALL set)

Re: location of UnicodeData.txt

[Hamish Moffatt]

On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 10:45:48AM -0600, John Hasler wrote:
> Richard Braakman writes:
> > But do you think it's _okay_ for such a file not to be free? 
> 
> /usr/share/perl/5.8.0/unicore/UnicodeData.txt, which I assume is the file
> you are talking about, contains just a table of data.  Unless its creation
> involved creativity rather than just "sweat of the brow" it is not
> protected by copyright.

A similar discussion might apply to the CMap files in
/usr/share/fonts/cmap provided by cmap-adobe-japan1, etc. These have an
Adobe copyright and license preventing modification, but the actual
contents are just:

33 begincidrange
<> <00ff>0
<0100> <01ff>  256
<0200> <02ff>  512
<0300> <03ff>  768
<0400> <04ff> 1024
<0500> <05ff> 1280
<0600> <06ff> 1536
<0700> <07ff> 1792
<0800> <08ff> 2048
<0900> <09ff> 2304
etc


Hamish
-- 
Hamish Moffatt VK3SB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: Test package apt repositories, and "Release" files.

[Stefano Zacchiroli]

On Fri, Nov 22, 2002 at 08:33:44AM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
> This is the question that hasn't been addressed yet. Is the Release
> file that Karl posted correct?

I'm still waiting for an answer on this from some guru, I've an
apt-gettable repository but I haven't yet looked at the pinning stuff.

If someone can answer on this I will surely set up the needed Release
file.

TIA,
Cheers.

-- 
Stefano Zacchiroli  -  undergraduate student of CS @ Uni. Bologna, Italy
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] | ICQ 33538863 | http://www.cs.unibo.it/~zacchiro
 "I know you believe you understood what you think I said, but I am not
 sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!" -- G.Romney


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Re: Are we losing users to Gentoo?

[Joey Hess]

Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote:
> Indeed, the Debian home page is so well organized and so easy to find
> and get around in, that people don't *need* so many secondary sources
> of information.  Our success at doing our job well has meant that the
> distrowatch counter is especially inaccurate in our case.

Wooh, that's a rich one. Above speaks a man who does not read the
debian-www mail I suppose.

Here's an experiment for you. Go to debian.org, and you want to download
a CD image whole from the net (cause you have bandwidth and are in a
hurry).

So maybe you click on the "Debian on CD" link, right? And from there on
the 4th bulletted link ("Download CD images using HTTP or FTP"), after
wading past unofficial minimal CD images, and learning what jigdo is.
And then on scroll way down the list to your country. And then into the
current directory on the mirror, oops, that was jigdo only?!  back out
and to the 3.0r0 directory. What, that was jigdo again?! Hmm, try
another mirror. Maybe the one in Austria, because it's the top of that
list of mirrors. Hmm, no, it only has a jigdo directory too. Finally, by
picking the FTP site (not the HTTP site) in Austria, and digging two
more directories deep, you find an iso.

But maybe instead, back at debian.org's front page, you picked the
"Getting Debian" link instead. Only to end up on a page that links to cd
vendors and "downloading over the Internet". Ok, the latter. But it
points to a page that only lets one download unnofficial netinst iso
images, which are of varying quality, and well, unnoficial. And this
second path (or rather, cul-de-sac) to a debian CD is entirely
independant of the one described above. The website offers two ways to
do the same thing, and neither works at all well.

People report this to the web team all the time. Someone complained
about it today. I think the obvious things to do to fix it would be to
do a little usability study (feel free to use me as one data-point; I
have never used the debian website to try to download a debian CD
before; indeed I have never downloaded a debian CD). Figure out all the
ways that someone can fuck this up, count how many correct choices they
have to make the get to the result, and work out how to simplify it.

There is no technical reason why the "Debian on CD" link could not look
up the requestor's ip address, a-la-CPAN, and direct them directly to an
i386 iso image on a mirror near them; presenting a page with that image
in a big bold link, and links to the other architectures iso's after in
general order of populatity of those architectures for CD installs. And
down at the bottom, the remainder of the stuff from cdimage.debian.org
(which is a lot nicer now than it was before, but I think has a long,
long way to go before it matches Bushnell's perception).

-- 
see shy jo


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Re: Test package apt repositories, and "Release" files.

[Andreas Metzler]

Karl M. Hegbloom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[...]
> Package: *
> Pin: release o=Debian/~njordan
> Pin-Priority: 989

> !!! Will those who know please check the above and see if my
> understanding of how apt/preferences is supposed to be used is correct? 
> I'd hate to give misinformation and have a lot of people believe I know
> what I'm talking about. :-)

> I think that the "Release" file for ~njordan, corresponding to:

> deb http://people.debian.org/~njordan kde3.0/

> ... should look like:

> Archive: unstable
> Component: main
> Origin: Debian/~njordan
> Label: Debian
> Architecture: i386

Hello,
Well, I just tried it out with my local
deb file:/apt-zusatz/ ./
and the entry for /etc/apt/preferences quoted above (but with
Pin-Priority: 666) and it seemed to work:
--
*prompt* apt-cache policy exim4-daemon-light
exim4-daemon-light:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: 4.10-0.srh20.19
  Version Table:
 4.10-0.srh20.19 0
666 file: ./ Packages
--
I had to remove the entry from source.list, call apt-get update,
re-add the entry to source.list and call apt-get /again/ to force
reading the Release-file.

Afaik it does not matter very much what you put in the Origin and
Label fields, but it seems to make sense to use the correct
stable/testing/unstable in Archive because it corresponds to the value
used as argument for "apt-get --default-release". You might want to
add a Version-line
 cu andreas
-- 
Hey, da ist ein Ballonautomat auf der Toilette!
Unofficial _Debian-packages_ of latest unstable _tin_
http://www.logic.univie.ac.at/~ametzler/debian/tin-snapshot/

Re: Are we losing users to Gentoo?

[Josip Rodin]

On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 05:13:01PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote:
> People report this to the web team all the time.

And every time they get a negative response, because we cannot fix something
that other people broke: the CD images distribution system. When woody was
released, the CD images were not released on cdimage.debian.org where the
old CD images were. Sure, the jigdo files were released, but as you note
yourself, the newbies don't quite fancy that, do they?

Of course, there are reasons for this change. But the fact is, the debian-cd
people (or whoever -- I just know it's not the web team as the web team has
nothing to do with it) chose to stop officially promoting distribution of
full CD images. That requires a bunch of explanations to random people, and
the random people don't like that.

> There is no technical reason why the "Debian on CD" link could not look
> up the requestor's ip address, a-la-CPAN, and direct them directly to an
> i386 iso image on a mirror near them;

Yes, there is. The debian-cd mirrors on our list are very diverse: some have
2.2r*, some have 3.0r*, some don't have full ISOs at all. Expecting
debian-www team to start making grossly hackish scripts to compensate for
whatever the hell people put in debian-cd/ directories on their sites, or
maintain separate lists of sites that have debian-cd organized properly,
that is just unreal.

(Especially, I should note, when it's basically going to help not only some
honest people who just got confused, but also give a false sense of easyness
to a bunch of people who really shouldn't be installing Debian in the first
place since they have a total aversion to reading documentation.)

Once again, if the CD image situation was clear, the documentation would be
clear as well.

-- 
 2. That which causes joy or happiness.

Re: gpg-agent?

[Brian May]

On Wed, Nov 27, 2002 at 10:41:29PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote:
> That would still let root replace /usr/bin/gpg with such a program
> though. So something like this is of some value, but only manages to
> narrow the window that lets someone who has temporary access to, say, a
> laptop with an agent running and a passphrase entered, to such a laptop
> on which you have used sudo in the last 15 minutes. Correct me if I'm
> wrong.

I am a bit confused with this description, I don't think sudo comes
into it... sudo is rather different in fact (its timeout mechanism
closer, if anything, to that used in Kerberos, rather then ssh-agent).

The protocol in ssh-agent does not allow any process access the the
private key, rather it signs (or decrypts, depending on protocol
version) any data recieved with the users private key and outputs the
result. This is then used in turn by the ssh protocol to authenticate
you at the remote end of the connection[1].

So, while it would be possible for a cracker to use this to logon to a
remote system, it is not possible for him/her to steal your private key.

Yes, somebody could replace ssh-add with a Trojan horse, but also
consider this will only work if the attacker compromises the computer
running the ssh-agent, and not if the attacker compromises another
computer, say one which has a ssh-agent session forwarded from the
first computer. Or if somebody breaks into you user account, not the
root account.

SE-Linux would make this even better, eg. given a secure policy, an
attacker would not even be able to steal your encrypted private key
from .ssh/*

So, I can forward an ssh-agent from computer A to B, and I be sure that
no matter what happens on B, as long as the security on A is maintained,
when I disconnect the session nobody will have been able to copy my
private key (assuming of course the ciphers used are secure).

I would hope that gpg-agent follows similar principles...

This would mean that somebody with access to a gpg-agent could sign
and decrypt data at the time, but still not be able to steal your
private key.

Obviously the quintuple-agent doesn't, so anyone with access to it,
effectively has unrestricted access to your private key.

Notes:
[1] My understanding at least of reading the ssh RFCs. This was years
ago, so I may have some of the details wrong (like signing vs
decrypting).
--
Brian May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: testing not getting updated?

[Rene Engelhard]

Hi aj,

Anthony Towns wrote:
> It's disabled due to non-US moving hosts (satie to klecker), it hasn't
> been re-enabled yet since there's still some worries about whether non-US
> has been recovered adequately; and the glibc issue means there's not a
> huge amount of point to re-enabling it. :-/

Eh, what's please with Arch: all packages which are held back in sid
when the scripts do not run although they will go into testing if the
scripts would run?

I see that the glibc issue does hold back the Arch: any packages, but
don't forget the Arch: all ones...

Regards,

Rene

-- 
 .''`.  Rene Engelhard -- Debian GNU/Linux Developer
 : :' : http://www.debian.org | http://people.debian.org/~rene/
 `. `'  [EMAIL PROTECTED] | GnuPG-Key ID: 248AEB73
   `-   Fingerprint: 41FA F208 28D4 7CA5 19BB  7AD9 F859 90B0 248A EB73


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Re: Accepted gtk2-engines-magicchicken 1.0.2-1 (i386 source)

[Rene Engelhard]

Roland Mas wrote:
> Colin Watson (2002-11-28 18:40:28 +) :
> 
> [...]
> 
> > You need Build-Depends{,-Indep}: debhelper (>= 4.1.0) for this, not
> > a particular setting of DH_COMPAT.
> 
> Well, to be frank, I think you need both :-)

No, you don't.

Regards,

Rene

-- 
 .''`.  Rene Engelhard -- Debian GNU/Linux Developer
 : :' : http://www.debian.org | http://people.debian.org/~rene/
 `. `'  [EMAIL PROTECTED] | GnuPG-Key ID: 248AEB73
   `-   Fingerprint: 41FA F208 28D4 7CA5 19BB  7AD9 F859 90B0 248A EB73


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Locales problems...

[Bruno Diniz de Paula]

Hi,

I work with locale en_US and keyboard layour us_intl, and frequently
have to type special characters in portuguese. The problem is that with
both multi-gnome-terminal and gnomeicu I wasn't able to type these
characters. With gnome-terminal it works fine. The version of
multi-gnome-terminal was the unstable one, so I decided to downgrade to
the stable version. Surprisingly, with stable version of
multi-gnome-terminal I could type all of the special characters that
didn't work with unstable version. What is the problem? How can I
display (and type) correctly in both multi-gnome-terminal and gnomeicu,
all of them running on Gnome2?

Another question: is this question proper to this list, or I should have
tried debian-user? Sorry if it is unproper... (in fact, I also sent to
that list)

Thanks in advance,

Bruno.
-- 
Bruno Diniz de Paula <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Rutgers University


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Re: Locales problems...

[Sean 'Shaleh' Perry]

On Thursday 28 November 2002 16:02, Bruno Diniz de Paula wrote:
>
> Another question: is this question proper to this list, or I should have
> tried debian-user? Sorry if it is unproper... (in fact, I also sent to
> that list)
>

debian-user is the support list while debian-devel is for the day to day 
discussions pertaining to creating Debian.  Basically if you are asking for 
help ask on -user if you are offering a patch or want to have a technical 
discussion about proper solutions it should happen here on -devel.

For the most part the people working on Debian do not read -user although some 
of us try.

Bug#171116: ITP: tsclient -- GNOME2 frontend for rdesktop

[Andrew Lau]

Package: wnpp
Version: N/A; reported 2002-11-29
Severity: wishlist

* Package name: tsclient
  Version : 0.56
  Upstream Author : Erick Woods <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://www.gnomepro.com/tsclient/
* License : GPL
  Description : GNOME2 frontend for rdesktop

Features:
* GNOME panel applet to quickly launch saved rdp files
* supports most of the rdesktop-1.1.0 arguments
* reads .rdp files in the MS Unicode format
* writes .rdp files in ASCII (compatible with MS client)
* features an "rdp picker" which lists .rdp files in
  ~/.tsclient/ and launches rdesktop from the rdp file when
  selected
* VNC support as a client only

-- System Information
Debian Release: testing/unstable
Architecture: i386
Kernel: Linux foad 2.4.18-686 #1 Sun Apr 14 11:32:47 EST 2002 i686
Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=C

New maintainer behaviour with NMU and LogJam's hijacking

[Christian Surchi]

I'm in Debian also because I like cooperative work and I hope Debian
Project is not a competition, but I had to change my opinion because I
did not receive respect from new maintainer Ari Pollak; and Debian did
not receive any respect too.

I maintain logjam (a client for livejournal web site services) package
from its old development as loserjabber. I worked with upstream author
in past, for example suggesting the use of dynamic linking (dlopen) to
avoid forcing users to have xmms installed to install
loserjabber/logjam. 

I know that I could not make work on debian packages in last months...
or better I tried to work even if I had a few spare time so I didn't
make any upload. But I'm not MIA, I have continued following and writing
to the lists and handling BTS things as more as I could do.

Ari wrote to me in the end of october to ask me about my intention about
logjam packaging. I had an enormous backlog and I could not be able to
reply. Then he filed a wishlist bug report (#166993) for the new
upstream release for logjam (4.0.0). Upstream web site
(http://logjam.danga.com) reports that 4.0.0 is released on 29 Oct 2002.
Bug report was sent on 29 Oct 2002 (!).

On 17 Nov 2002 Ari made a NMU for logjam 4.0.0+cvs.2002.11.17 and
another one a few days after that date, IIRC, without a note to me.
I was handling bugs for logjam, as you can see in BTS (#165281). Build
failure reported by Junichi Uekawa in that bug was actually a
libcurl-dev bug (#169654). I reported and maintainer closed with an
upload.

So Ari made the NMU only to close a not so old wishlist bug filed by
himself, faking to close #165281 with his upload. No bug for it against
logjam and instead he closed it with an unuseful "New upstream version"
entry in changelog. I was not MIA and he didn't write any note to me
about his proposal for an NMU. Then he changed to a cvs version, while I
have always packaged stable released version. No notes about it too.
Then he did not follow our guidelines for NMU, because he uploaded
directly to incoming and not to the 7-DAYS delayed queue, so I couldn't
stop his NMU.

Maybe I forgot something... maybe this episode could be seen as not so
important but it hit me strongly, in particular from the point of view
of my idea about Our Project and Our Work.

I don't know if I'll take care further of logjam debian packages.

Thanks for your attention.
Christian


-- 
Christian Surchi, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] |   ICQ 
www.debian.org - www.softwarelibero.it - www.firenze.linux.it| 38374818
Friction is a drag.


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Re: new build system

[Joshua Haberman]

* Colin Walters ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> On Wed, 2002-11-27 at 12:37, Mateusz Papiernik wrote:
> > > But unlike dpkg-source v2, you can start using CBS right now. Sound
> > > interesting?  Here's the URL where you can download CBS:
> > > http://cvs.verbum.org/debian/rules
> > 
> > Yes, it sounds interesting, but I had a problems with CBS and two 
> > packages (mainly GNU Gadu 2 from cvs and Kadu from kadu.net). It's all
> > ok, but when I do "debuild", at compile stage, it cannot find includes,
> > for example, when I type make manually I see:
> > 
> > gcc -c -o -I.. -I../.. -ggdb -O2 common.c
> > 
> > but when I do debuild or dpkg-buildpackage I see
> > 
> > gcc -c -o -ggdb -O2 common.c
> 
> That's because your upstream's build system is broken; the CBS make
> invocation sets CFLAGS, and your upstream's Makefile isn't properly
> coded to keep other flags like -I around when CFLAGS is set.
> 
> A temporary workaround is to just override the rule and not set CFLAGS;
> the real solution is to fix the Makefile so that this works.

I had to do this for several Makefiles tonight; my strategy was to
change

CFLAGS = -Ithis -Ithat -g

into

override CFLAGS += -Ithis -Ithat -g

Josh

-- 
Joshua Haberman  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: Bug#171116: ITP: tsclient -- GNOME2 frontend for rdesktop

[Colin Walters]

On Thu, 2002-11-28 at 21:09, Andrew Lau wrote:
> Package: wnpp
> Version: N/A; reported 2002-11-29
> Severity: wishlist
> 
> * Package name: tsclient
>   Version : 0.56
>   Upstream Author : Erick Woods <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> * URL : http://www.gnomepro.com/tsclient/
> * License : GPL
>   Description : GNOME2 frontend for rdesktop

How about: Windows Terminal Services (RDP) client for GNOME 2

Remember, the synopsis line is for giving people unfamiliar with the
software the general idea of its function.  You should avoid using
jargon that someone wouldn't know unless they've already used the
software before (like in this case, "rdesktop").

> Features:
>   * GNOME panel applet to quickly launch saved rdp files
>   * supports most of the rdesktop-1.1.0 arguments
>   * reads .rdp files in the MS Unicode format
>   * writes .rdp files in ASCII (compatible with MS client)
>   * features an "rdp picker" which lists .rdp files in
> ~/.tsclient/ and launches rdesktop from the rdp file when
> selected
>   * VNC support as a client only

If I have no idea what rdesktop is, your long description isn't going to
help a whole lot.  How about prefixing it with:

 tsclient is a program to access Windows NT and Windows 2000 Terminal
Services remotely, using the Remote Desktop Protocol.  It has many
features, including:
 [features list]

Re: Pick a name, any name...

[John H. Robinson, IV]

Ben Armstrong wrote:
 
> Bah, that's what CNAME is for.

that is _NOT_ what a CNAME is for. a CNAME is for when the hostname is
in a domain that is OUTSIDE of your control.

ie: evil.debian.org -> www.msn.com = CNAME (we don't control the msn.com
domain)
forge.debian.org -> quantz.debian.org = A (we control the debian.org
domain, so we can save the internet by REDUCING THE NUMBER OF
UNNECESSARY DNS LOOKUPS AND REDUCE THE END USERS DELAY WITH DNS LOOKUP
REQUIREMENTS)

isn't this a FAQ somewhere?

-john

Re: location of UnicodeData.txt

[Paul Hampson]

On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 05:46:04PM +, Mark Brown wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 07:33:43PM +0200, Richard Braakman wrote:
> 
> > These days I wouldn't be eager to rely on the limits of copyrightability.
> 
> >CNN.com - Composer pays for piece of silence - Sep. 23, 2002
> >
> 
> It's worth pointing out that the major problem there was that the
> derived work actually credited the original which would make it much
> harder to defend a copyright action.

But they never stated which part of 4'33" had apparently had it's
copyright violated...

-- 
---
Paul "TBBle" Hampson, MCSE
5th year CompSci/Asian Studies student, ANU
The Boss, Bubblesworth Pty Ltd (ABN: 51 095 284 361)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Of course Pacman didn't influence us as kids. If it did,
we'd be running around in darkened rooms, popping pills and
listening to repetitive music.

This email is licensed to the recipient for non-commercial
use, duplication and distribution.
---


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Re: location of UnicodeData.txt

[Paul Hampson]

On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 07:02:07PM +0100, Emile van Bergen wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 11:47:52AM -0600, John Hasler wrote:
> 
> > Emile van Bergen writes:
> > > I'd say that the definition of Unicode, heck even ASCII, involves a fair
> > > amount of creativity.
> > 
> > I don't doubt that the development of Unicode involved creativity: under
> > current law it probably qualifies as a patentable invention.  Inventions
> > and ideas, however, cannot be copyrighted: only creative works reduced to
> > tangible form can.  I'm arguing that the _creation_ _of_ _that_ _table_
> > involved no creativity, not that the invention of Unicode didn't.
> 
> Well, so you say that if I write a novel, all my creativity is in the
> abstract idea; putting the words down involved no extra creativity; thus
> the sequence of words cannot be copyrighted?

Copyright _cannot_ be applied to ideas, only the implementation or
physical representation of thost ideas. (I can't copyright "an mp3
player" but I can copyright "The mp3 player I wrote".)

A patent however, applies to a new process or invention, which will usually
encompass an idea more strongly. (I can patent "A method of turning mp3s
into sound" as long as no-one else has done it that way before.)

Patents are civil actions, while copyright violation is criminal, so
copyright _has_ to be more limited than patents since there's more
punishment and less recourse.

-- 
---
Paul "TBBle" Hampson, MCSE
5th year CompSci/Asian Studies student, ANU
The Boss, Bubblesworth Pty Ltd (ABN: 51 095 284 361)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Of course Pacman didn't influence us as kids. If it did,
we'd be running around in darkened rooms, popping pills and
listening to repetitive music.

This email is licensed to the recipient for non-commercial
use, duplication and distribution.
---


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Re: Bug#169361: ITP: apt-listbugs -- Retrieves bugs from BTS and lists them

[Masato Taruishi]

I've uploaded a test version of the tool at:

deb http://people.debian.org/~taru/deb/apt-listbugs/ ./

I'd like you to check it.

Currently, it retrieves bug reports from not bugs.debian.org,
but hanzubon.debian.gr.jp, which does proxy-caching of
bugs.debian.org temporary. This keeps a query to bugs.debian.org
for 20 minutes to avoid many queries to it.

I guess we need more sophisticated framework.

Thanks

At Sun, 17 Nov 2002 01:44:43 +0900,
Masato Taruishi wrote:

> Package: wnpp
> Version: unavailable; reported 2002-11-17
> Severity: wishlist
> 
> * Package name: apt-listbugs
> * License : GPL
>   Description : Retrieves bugs from BTS and lists them
> 
>  Hi, I'm writing a tool 'apt-listbugs' which retrieves bugs from
>  the Debian Bug Tracking System and lists them. Especially, 
>  apt-listbugs is invoked before each installation by apt
>  in order to check whether the upgrade is safe. If it finds
>  critical bugs, you can stop the installation and save your
>  system. This package should be useful for developers and/or
>  users of sid.
> 
>  Of cource, it's needed that anyone reports the critical bug
>  to BTS to save our own system :)
> 
> -- System Information:
> Debian Release: testing/unstable
> Architecture: i386
> Kernel: Linux vass 2.4.19-686 #1 Sun Oct 6 18:37:38 EST 2002 i686
> Locale: LANG=ja_JP.eucJP, LC_CTYPE=ja_JP.eucJP
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 

Re: location of UnicodeData.txt

[John Hasler]

Paul Hampson writes:
> Patents are civil actions, while copyright violation is criminal,...

In the US copyright infringement is usually (not always anymore, but still
usually) civil as well.
-- 
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, Wisconsin

Re: New maintainer behaviour with NMU and LogJam's hijacking

[Ari Pollak]

Firstly, I don't think this is a matter for debian-devel as it doesn't 
involve the project as a whole and would best be dealt with privately. 
Secondly, I'd like to apologize to Christian and the Debian project for 
not following exact policy. However, in my defense, I did contact 
Christian several times before making the NMU, and did explain to him 
numerous times privately after the NMU why I did certain things (such as 
using bug fixes from CVS, since certain things in the actual release 
needed to be corrected). Also, the actual logjam package had not 
received any attention since May even though a new 3.0.x release had 
been out, so having not received any response from any of my e-mails to 
Christian before the NMU, I felt things were going unnoticed. Also in my 
defense, the new 4.x version did fix a serious-level bug filed against 
the package, and the 3.x series of logjam was basically very unstable as a 
whole. I have also been in close contact with the upstream author of 
logjam, and maintain one of his other software packages, gtkspell, for 
Debian.

In any case, if you have any further discussions about this, 
please contact Christian and me privately, unless this is appropriate 
to post in debian-devel for some reason.

On Fri, Nov 29, 2002 at 03:47:29AM +0100, Christian Surchi wrote:
> I'm in Debian also because I like cooperative work and I hope Debian
> Project is not a competition, but I had to change my opinion because I
> did not receive respect from new maintainer Ari Pollak; and Debian did
> not receive any respect too.

...
> 
> Maybe I forgot something... maybe this episode could be seen as not so
> important but it hit me strongly, in particular from the point of view
> of my idea about Our Project and Our Work.
> 
> I don't know if I'll take care further of logjam debian packages.
> 
> Thanks for your attention.
> Christian


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Re: Bug#171116: ITP: tsclient -- GNOME2 frontend for rdesktop

[Andrew Lau]

On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 10:22:01PM -0500, Colin Walters wrote:
> How about: Windows Terminal Services (RDP) client for GNOME 2

Thanks for the comments Kamion. I normally take a lot more care in the
actual package description before finalising packages. I only noticed
today that I hadn't yet filed an ITP on it after starting working on
it a week ago. = ) Was at uni at the time and filed the ITP in haste.

Yours sincerely,
Andrew "Netsnipe" Lau

-- 
---
* Andrew "Netsnipe" LauComputer Science & Student Representaive, UNSW *
*   # apt-get into it Debian GNU/Linux Package Maintainer *
**
* GnuPG 1024D/2E8B68BD 0B77 73D0 4F3B F286 63F1  9F4A 9B24 C07D 2E8B 68BD *
---


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