Re: Please test this woody cd image

[Adam Di Carlo]

Well, I'm officially removing myself from any questions of what should
be on what CD and whether to use isolinux or not.  So don't look at
me, I need to focus on making sure boot-floppies work for 3.0, 3.0r1,
etc.

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Re: Debian Conference 2 Registration

[Carlos Laviola]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 09:55:57PM -0300, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Carlos Laviola wrote:
> > IIS server because "we" were given money.  I believe principles are more
> > important than money.
> 
> So spend your time writing the scripts. 

I will.

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Re: Request for gnuchess packaging change

[Tille, Andreas]

On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Lukas Geyer wrote:

> after unsuccessful attempts to contact the maintainer of gnuchess, Martin
> Mitchell (he did not answer at all to my emails), I would like to propose
> a change to the packaging of gnuchess. Andreas Tille did at least do an
> NMU to update to version 5.03 which fixes several outstanding bugs. One
> remaining bug is that gnuchess does not use its opening book. This has in
> the meantime been separated from the upstream source, due to its enormous
> size. I propose that Debian follows this step and splits gnuchess into
> gnuchess and gnuchess-book. The book in the current version is completely
> architecture-independent, so this separation makes sense as it only has to
> be built on one architecture for all. Furthermore, the book is not bound
> to change with every new upstream version of gnuchess, so that people will
> not have to download it every time the code changes. I have put up sample
> source packages under
>
> http://www.mathematik.uni-dortmund.de/lsix/geyer/gnuchess/debian
While having no time to check your work I really like the idea to split
the book from gnuchess.  I would have done it myself if it would not be
to much change for a NMU.

> My interest in gnuchess comes from the fact that I am co-maintaining the
> upstream gnuchess release. It seems to me that the maintainer has no real
> interest in the package and before the NMU of Andreas Tille it was
> completely broken for several architectures. I would be willing to provide
> Debian packages but I am not a member of the Debian project (yet).
I'm sure you will find a sponsor for your packages (if not just ask me
but I do not want to stay in the first position of the  queue because of
time constraints).  Perhaps you consider to apply as maintainer because
I like a stronnection between Debian maintainer and upstream.

Anyway, great job, Lukas!

Kind regards

 Andreas.


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rsync and debian -- summary of issues

[Martin Pool]

There seems to be a thread about rsync and Debian packages every
couple of months.  I've written up a document which tries to cover all
of the questions and debates.  It's pretty informal, but hopefully
will be useful.

  http://rsync.samba.org/rsync-and-debian/

I'd appreciate comments.

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Re: Packages still in Potato

[Paul Slootman]

On Wed 10 Apr 2002, Bob Hilliard wrote:
> Otto Wyss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > Packages: dict-easton, dict-gazetteer, dict-hitchcock
>  
> > The listed packages are still located in the Potato directory,
> > possibly because there wasn't any update necessary during the full
> > Woody development phase, but maybe also because there is no interest
> > in these packages. So please check your packages and do an upload,
> > so they get into the pool, or orphan them so others can take over or
> > they get removed.
>  
> > Please inform me what you are doing or not doing. This way I may ask
> > others to do NMU's just in case.
> 
>  These packages have not needed any updates.  The last update was
> solely to add the /usr/share/doc directory.  I had not contemplated
> another upload until post-woody, when the /usr/doc symlink could be
> removed.  In previous releases (before the pool concept was adopted),
> the unstable directory contained symlinks to the unstable directory,
> and the last step before release was converting any remaining symlinks
> to hard links.  Is it really necessary to make a new upload, rather
> than copying or linking these packages to the pool?
> 
>  I will make a new upload before the woody release if it is
> necessary to do so.  Please let me know it this is required.

I got a similar message from him.
He hadn't done his research all that well either, as one of my packages
_had_ been uploaded since potato, but for some reason isn't built on arm
and hence isn't migrating to woody.

Besides, I'm fairly confident that packages won't silently disappear
from woody just because they're not currently in /pool/, the situation
isn't that different from earlier releases where the files were still in
the previous release's hierarchy, and were moved to the new release
hierarchy when that was released (or was it when it was frozen).

I'de hate to see a flurry of useless uploads just because of an
(incorrect) perceived threat to the packages' existence.


Paul Slootman


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Re: Request for gnuchess packaging change

[Thimo Neubauer]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 09:25:24PM +0200, Lukas Geyer wrote:
> My interest in gnuchess comes from the fact that I am co-maintaining the
> upstream gnuchess release. It seems to me that the maintainer has no real
> interest in the package and before the NMU of Andreas Tille it was
> completely broken for several architectures. I would be willing to provide
> Debian packages but I am not a member of the Debian project (yet).

I can sponsor you, if you like, meaning that I'll check the packaging
and upload det .deb in your name. This work could also be a great
start if you want to become a Debian Developer.

CU
   Thimo

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Re: [2002-04-06] Release Status Update

[Russell Coker]

On Sun, 7 Apr 2002 22:40, Paul Slootman wrote:
> > Over the past few weeks most of the following packages have been removed
> > from the upcoming release due to bugs and such [0].
>
> [...]
>
> > dnrd   logtrend-consolidation  pptp-linux
>
> Could someone give a pointer where I can found out why pptp-linux has
> been removed? Its BTS page shows only a single unresolved bug, and a
> minor one at that (spelling mistake in README.Reference). No RC-bugs,
> fixed or unfixed.
>
> Alternatively, what needs to be done to have this package in woody?
> Recently, ADSL (MXstream as the dutch telco KPN calls it) has taken
> quite a flight here in the Netherlands, and for that pptp-linux is
> needed...

You only need pptp-linux if you use an Ethernet attached modem instead of the 
USB attached modem (which is E50 cheaper).

Also the Ethernet attached devices that they are selling are reprogrammable 
and have PPTP capabilities.  Getting a Linux machine going without PPTP is 
doable.

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Re: Please test this woody cd image

[Eduard Bloch]

#include 
Matt Zimmerman wrote on Wed Apr 10, 2002 um 09:31:12PM:

> > Well, no. :) idepci is known to fail for people with scsi and new ide
> > hardware, so it's not really the best choice either. There probably is
> > no best choice, but a system with a menu where you can choose a choice
> > is probably better than any arbitrary default.
> 
> I have installed many SCSI systems (including the one that I'm using right
> now) with potato CD #1, which I assume has a similar configuration.  I've

Your assumption is WRONG. The old vanilla Flavor used there had lots of
drivers. Idepci does not.

> I absolutely agree that a choice on CD 1 would be superior, especially since
> it would make it possible to have the choice of a 2.4 kernel while only
> using one CD.  But I think it would be even better to make a high-quality

Yeah, highquality Debian distro, not installalbe on many modern systems.

Gruss/Regards,
Eduard.
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Re: Please test this woody cd image

[Eduard Bloch]

#include 
Matt Zimmerman wrote on Wed Apr 10, 2002 um 09:26:45PM:

> Do you follow those distributions' user and support mailing lists?  I
> certainly don't, so I've no idea who can or can't install them.  What I do

Oh, please stop talking about theoretical issues without any real
evidence.

> hear quite often is "the only thing that would install was Debian [and
> NetBSD]".

Yeah, often talking about their most broken machines, where people did
manage to install using Debian _floppy_ disks. Does not count here.

> A search on lists.debian.org shows:
> 
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2001/debian-boot-200111/msg00016.html
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2001/debian-boot-200108/msg00258.html
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2001/debian-boot-200108/msg00260.html
> 
> and nothing else ever.  The couple of messages in 200108 are all musing and

As said before, show me ONE failure report (where the failure is
definitely caused by isolinux). I guess you CANNOT.

> no code or testing.  Last August would have been a good time to start
> experimenting with this if it was intended for woody.

Did YOU help introducing ANY new features in boot-floppies? I18n? Kernel
2.4, other filesystems, RAID support, lots of bugfixes in the existing
code, etc.  etc.? Either you can continue your mission of distruction,
or you stop crying about lost time. If we should work out and discuss
every feature (needing some weeks), then test it some months, we won't
release Woody before 2003.

Gruss/Regards,
Eduard.
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Imp 3.0/3.1 debian packages?

[Pasi Kärkkäinen]

Hello!

What's the status of newer imp packages for woody/sid?


- Pasi Kärkkäinen


   ^
. .
 Linux
  /-\
 Choice.of.the
   .Next.Generation.


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Re: m68k autobuilder disk full!

[peter karlsson]

Peter S Galbraith:

> One of my packages disappeared from testing recently (not sure why)

Well, it was listed in the removal list that was posted on March 3rd:
http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2002/debian-devel-announce-200203/msg2.html

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Re: Please test this woody cd image

[Anthony Towns]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 09:31:12PM -0400, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 05:39:36PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
> I have installed many SCSI systems (including the one that I'm using right
> now) with potato CD #1, which I assume has a similar configuration.  

Potato CD#1 used the vanilla flavour, Woody CD#1 was going to use the
idepci flavour (which doesn't have SCSI support), since Raphael's primary
language isn't English and the vanilla flavour doesn't support language
chooser. Now we could argue back and forth about this until May trying
to convince each other, but that'd be a waste of everyone's time and
quite annoying to all involved.

Doing the isolinux thing gets rid of this problem for us, and makes CD#1
much more flexible and intuitive to installers, and there're good reasons
to expect it to work well. There's not enough time to test it well (and,
tbh, woody hasn't been tested anywhere near as well as it should've been
in _any_ respects) but even if it *doesn't* work everywhere it's expected
to, that's not a huge loss, since we'll still have CD#2-4 bootable with
each individual image, and floppy images will also be available.

This seems to be a very good choice.

Additionally, it's very easy to test: find random systems, reboot them
with the small CD Raphael's prepared and check you can get into the
installer. You don't need to go all the way through the install, nor
worry about damaging your system at all -- as soon as you get to the
pretty installer screens, you're done.

Seriously: everyone reading this mail, burn a copy of Raphael's test image
on a CD and try booting it in any computers you have handy. If it doesn't
work on a machine where a potato CD does boot, please mail the lists!

> I absolutely agree that a choice on CD 1 would be superior, especially since
> it would make it possible to have the choice of a 2.4 kernel while only
> using one CD.  But I think it would be even better to make a high-quality
> release release according to aj's tentative schedule, rather than a
> minimally-tested release (possibly much) later.

Worst case, if people do find a bunch of systems where this doesn't work,
we revert the change. There's no reason that should delay anything.

Cheers,
aj, who has no idea why this is on -boot and -devel but not -cd

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Re: Please test this woody cd image

[Anthony Towns]

On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 10:12:28AM +0200, Eduard Bloch wrote:
> Matt Zimmerman wrote on Wed Apr 10, 2002 um 09:26:45PM:
> > Do you follow those distributions' user and support mailing lists?  I
> > certainly don't, so I've no idea who can or can't install them.  What I do
> Oh, please stop talking about theoretical issues without any real
> evidence.

Eduard, take a pill. In the absence of reliable testing (which we don't
have in many areas), many of our issues will only become practical
the day after release. Much better to tackle them while they're still
theoretical in that case.

Cheers,
aj

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Re: sid: libc6-2.2.5-4 kills vmware workstation 3.0

[Jeroen Dekkers]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 10:29:56AM +0200, Torsten Landschoff wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 10:40:41PM +0200, Jeroen Dekkers wrote:
> > s/refused/discouraged/ and I would agree. Isn't the goal of Debian
> > providing a free system so users don't have to run any non-free
> > software anymore? IMHO the "we support non-free software" clause was
> 
> I think this is one of the goals of Debian. And in cases where there
> is free software that works good enough I will use it. But sometimes
> there is only non-free software for a task or the non-free program is
> a lot better than the free one.

I like "thinking with my gonads". I just want to have freedom.

> In such cases I sometimes decide to run the non-free tool if it saves
> me some time. After all I want to get my job done and I want to have 
> some time left for leisure or for working on stuff like free software.

You restrict yourself to get some leisure. Don't complain that you are
restricted from doing something afterways when it doesn't work anymore
and you don't have leisure anymore.

> Like you I want other people to use free software as well because then
> I hope not being asked about those silly opaque problems in proprietary
> programs anymore. 

Please don't see you want it like me. I like it because of moral
things, you just because you get some advantages of it. If non-free
software give you (short-term) advantages then you even use that. I
would never do that because free software is always better in the long
term.

> But I am not going to attack anybody because he 
> likes the proprietary stuff better, not even if it is extreme silly to 
> do so. If somebody tells me about yet another Outlook problem I will
> just smirk and go on to the next email.

Yes, and I will tell him why he has this problems and that there is
some solutions for it (namely using a good, free MUA). You just let
the person helpless, I try to point him to the fix. However if you try
to help somebody you should not be a debian developers because you
said that non-free software is the problem and you are not allowed to
say that according to the social contract.

Jeroen Dekkers
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Re: sid: libc6-2.2.5-4 kills vmware workstation 3.0

[Jeroen Dekkers]

On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 05:49:55PM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote:
> * Jeroen Dekkers ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > Isn't the goal of Debian
> > providing a free system so users don't have to run any non-free
> > software anymore?
> 
> No, no, nonono, no, no, no.

4. Our Priorities are Our Users and Free Software 
 
> I'm done.

Me too.

Jeroen Dekkers
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Re: [2002-04-06] Release Status Update

[Paul Slootman]

On Thu 11 Apr 2002, Russell Coker wrote:
> On Sun, 7 Apr 2002 22:40, Paul Slootman wrote:
> > > Over the past few weeks most of the following packages have been removed
> > > from the upcoming release due to bugs and such [0].
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > > dnrd   logtrend-consolidation  pptp-linux
> >
> > Could someone give a pointer where I can found out why pptp-linux has
> > been removed? Its BTS page shows only a single unresolved bug, and a
> > minor one at that (spelling mistake in README.Reference). No RC-bugs,
> > fixed or unfixed.
> >
> > Alternatively, what needs to be done to have this package in woody?
> > Recently, ADSL (MXstream as the dutch telco KPN calls it) has taken
> > quite a flight here in the Netherlands, and for that pptp-linux is
> > needed...
> 
> You only need pptp-linux if you use an Ethernet attached modem instead of the 
> USB attached modem (which is E50 cheaper).

Yes, but often the line comes in many meters away from the system, and
the simplest thing is then to run some UTP to the ADSL modem.

> Also the Ethernet attached devices that they are selling are reprogrammable 
> and have PPTP capabilities.  Getting a Linux machine going without PPTP is 
> doable.

No.
In the beginning the ethernet attached devices were easily hacked (the
reprogramming you mention was in fact a hack, and would void any
warranty).  Nowadays the capability to do this has been removed
entirely, as a colleague recently discovered when he tried this (he has
a Mac with OS-X, and is having trouble getting the link up if he doesn't
use the GUI interface to do that).

All of this, however, still doesn't answer the question why it was
removed, and why it can't go back in.

> -- 
> If you send email to me or to a mailing list that I use which has >4 lines
> of legalistic junk at the end then you are specifically authorizing me to do
> whatever I wish with the message and all other messages from your domain, by
> posting the message you agree that your long legalistic sig is void.

So your long legalistic sig is also void? :-)


Paul Slootman


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Re: sid: libc6-2.2.5-4 kills vmware workstation 3.0

[Thom May]

> On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 05:49:55PM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote:
>> * Jeroen Dekkers ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>> > Isn't the goal of Debian
>> > providing a free system so users don't have to run any non-free
>> > software anymore?
>>
>> No, no, nonono, no, no, no.
>
> 4. Our Priorities are Our Users and Free Software
>
Yes. Kindly note the order that the priorities are listed in. Your reply
disregarded the most important part - Our Users.
If users get flamed for reporting a bug in glibc, they ain't gonna stay our
users, and this project of ours rapidly becomes pointless.

>> I'm done.
>
> Me too.
>
We can but hope.
-Thom




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Re: [2002-04-06] Release Status Update

[Russell Coker]

On Thu, 11 Apr 2002 13:37, Paul Slootman wrote:
> > You only need pptp-linux if you use an Ethernet attached modem instead of
> > the USB attached modem (which is E50 cheaper).
>
> Yes, but often the line comes in many meters away from the system, and
> the simplest thing is then to run some UTP to the ADSL modem.

In my apartment the line comes in many meters from my computer and I just ran 
many meters of telephone extension cable to my modem which is next to my 
computer.

> > Also the Ethernet attached devices that they are selling are
> > reprogrammable and have PPTP capabilities.  Getting a Linux machine going
> > without PPTP is doable.
>
> No.
> In the beginning the ethernet attached devices were easily hacked (the
> reprogramming you mention was in fact a hack, and would void any
> warranty).  Nowadays the capability to do this has been removed
> entirely, as a colleague recently discovered when he tried this (he has
> a Mac with OS-X, and is having trouble getting the link up if he doesn't
> use the GUI interface to do that).

I'm surprised to hear it's a hack.  I am working for a major Dutch company 
that is planning a major roll-out of broadband connected machines, and we are 
planning to reconfigure all such modems as part of the standard installation.

Maybe we are talking about different things here?

> All of this, however, still doesn't answer the question why it was
> removed, and why it can't go back in.

True.  I want to see it in too!

> So your long legalistic sig is also void? :-)

Correct, my sig does not apply when I send email to myself.  ;)

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Re: [2002-04-06] Release Status Update

[Matijs van Zuijlen]

On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 10:18:08AM +0200, Russell Coker wrote:
> On Sun, 7 Apr 2002 22:40, Paul Slootman wrote:
> > > Over the past few weeks most of the following packages have been removed
> > > from the upcoming release due to bugs and such [0].
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > > dnrd   logtrend-consolidation  pptp-linux
> >
> > Could someone give a pointer where I can found out why pptp-linux has
> > been removed? Its BTS page shows only a single unresolved bug, and a
> > minor one at that (spelling mistake in README.Reference). No RC-bugs,
> > fixed or unfixed.
> >
> > Alternatively, what needs to be done to have this package in woody?
> > Recently, ADSL (MXstream as the dutch telco KPN calls it) has taken
> > quite a flight here in the Netherlands, and for that pptp-linux is
> > needed...
> 
> You only need pptp-linux if you use an Ethernet attached modem instead of the 
> USB attached modem (which is E50 cheaper).

Well, some people already have the ethernet version. And the E75 laptop
I use as a router is a lot cheaper than anything w/ USB that's easy to
get here.

> Also the Ethernet attached devices that they are selling are reprogrammable 
> and have PPTP capabilities.  Getting a Linux machine going without PPTP is 
> doable.

It's just a lot easier to not have to reprogram the modem.

Anyways, I use a patched version that I complied myself. It's a version
that works with debian's pon and poff, and uses pppd's own persist
option to restart the connection once it's down. Apparently there are
.debs for this now as well.

The patched versions (by Rein Klazes) can be found at:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~rklazes/data/

Note: this is all in Dutch; LEESMIJ means README, and ISVEROUDERD means
ISOLD/OBSOLETE.

The .deb is at: http://jp.dhs.org/pptp-linux_1.1.0-1_i386.deb

HTH,

-- 
Matijs van Zuijlen


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Re: [2002-04-06] Release Status Update

[Matijs van Zuijlen]

On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 02:14:41PM +0200, Russell Coker wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Apr 2002 13:37, Paul Slootman wrote:
> > > You only need pptp-linux if you use an Ethernet attached modem instead of
> > > the USB attached modem (which is E50 cheaper).
> >
> > Yes, but often the line comes in many meters away from the system, and
> > the simplest thing is then to run some UTP to the ADSL modem.
> 
> In my apartment the line comes in many meters from my computer and I just ran 
> many meters of telephone extension cable to my modem which is next to my 
> computer.
> 
> > > Also the Ethernet attached devices that they are selling are
> > > reprogrammable and have PPTP capabilities.  Getting a Linux machine going
> > > without PPTP is doable.
> >
> > No.
> > In the beginning the ethernet attached devices were easily hacked (the
> > reprogramming you mention was in fact a hack, and would void any
> > warranty).  Nowadays the capability to do this has been removed
> > entirely, as a colleague recently discovered when he tried this (he has
> > a Mac with OS-X, and is having trouble getting the link up if he doesn't
> > use the GUI interface to do that).
> 
> I'm surprised to hear it's a hack.  I am working for a major Dutch company 
> that is planning a major roll-out of broadband connected machines, and we are 
> planning to reconfigure all such modems as part of the standard installation.
> 
> Maybe we are talking about different things here?

The method described on http://www.sateh.com/hacks/alcatel.php certainly
looks like a hack. It basically describes a way to convert a Home model
to a Pro model without paying. Given the price difference 'Home' and
'Pro' seem to imply, this is most probably not what Alcatel intended.
Additionally, it says on that page:

You have the risk of changing your modem settings and not getting
them back in the correct original state. (...)

Which also sounds like it's a hack. Maybe you _are_ talking about
something different, though?

-- 
Matijs van Zuijlen


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Re: sid: libc6-2.2.5-4 kills vmware workstation 3.0

[Henrique de Moraes Holschuh]

On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, Jeroen Dekkers wrote:
> some solutions for it (namely using a good, free MUA). You just let
> the person helpless, I try to point him to the fix. However if you try
> to help somebody you should not be a debian developers because you
> said that non-free software is the problem and you are not allowed to
> say that according to the social contract.

Of course you can. However, you must be able to do so without sounding like
an aggravating evangelist if you are going to do so [in a way that appears
to be] in Debian's name (so, right now, don't).

The problem was not the message. It was the WAY that message was translated
into words.

-- 
  "One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
  them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
  where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
  Henrique Holschuh


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Re: Release cycle information?...

[Bas Zoetekouw]

Hi Johnny!

You wrote:

> I am researching the Debian release cycle.
> Where can I find information about how long time there should be 
> between a Stable release and the next Testing freeze?
> I have searched the Debian web site and the mailings lists, but I 
> have not found any such information.

The reason you can't find anything is probably that there isn't any
policy about this. Debian releases a new version when it's ready.
There's currently no release schedule with fixed dates.

You could probably find a lot of info (and flames) on this issue in the
archive of the debian-devel mailing list at http://lists.debian.org.

BTW: the debian-policy mailing list is meant for discussions about new
 debian policy. Your question is probably more on topic on the
 debian-devel mailing list.

-- 
Kind regards,
+---+
| Bas Zoetekouw  | Si l'on sait exactement ce   |
|| que l'on va faire, a quoi|
| [EMAIL PROTECTED] | bon le faire?|
|[EMAIL PROTECTED] |   Pablo Picasso  |
+---+ 


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Re: Home Networking

[Tom Cato Amundsen]

On Thu, 2002-04-11 at 06:32, Jon Eisenstein wrote:
> I'm trying to set up my Debian machine as a gateway to the outside network,
> with (for now) one windows machine going through it via a hub (Linksys
> router). I've followed instructions for both Debian and Redhat to set it up,
> but after I followed all the instructions, restart networking on Linux and
> restart the machine on windows (both with dhcp and assigned address), I get
> no ping from windows to the linux IP. Is there somebody who can help me out
> with this, to find out where my problem is? I'll send files or whatever
> other information there is, just name it if you can help. I want to make it
> clear that I tried for a few days with no success, and am now making a plea
> to the Debian community.
> 

This is a question for debian-user, not debian-devel. Posting first as
html, then plaintext does not improve your karma ;-)

I use the ipmasq package (but not dhcp) on the firewall, run linux, hurd
and win2000 on my desktop. The setup requred on win2000 was (if I
remember correct) just to set the assigned ip-number somewhere in the
control panel. If the network setup for windows is wrong, you can try to
contact microsoft support. The firewall does not have to know anything
about if you boot debian or mswindows on your desktop.

> Jon Eisenstein
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
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> 
-- 
Tom Cato Amundsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
GNU Solfege - free eartraining, http://www.gnu.org/software/solfege/


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Re: Release cycle information?...

[Daniel Ruoso]

I agree that debian doesn't have no fixed dates for the release. And I
think that's a good thing about debian, but i researched about this, and
I would like to know if there is a defined roadmap for woody becoming
frozen... What's the target milestone?

Em Qui, 2002-04-11 às 10:27, Bas Zoetekouw escreveu:
> Hi Johnny!
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> > I am researching the Debian release cycle.
> > Where can I find information about how long time there should be 
> > between a Stable release and the next Testing freeze?
> > I have searched the Debian web site and the mailings lists, but I 
> > have not found any such information.
> 
> The reason you can't find anything is probably that there isn't any
> policy about this. Debian releases a new version when it's ready.
> There's currently no release schedule with fixed dates.
> 
> You could probably find a lot of info (and flames) on this issue in the
> archive of the debian-devel mailing list at http://lists.debian.org.
> 
> BTW: the debian-policy mailing list is meant for discussions about new
>  debian policy. Your question is probably more on topic on the
>  debian-devel mailing list.
> 
> -- 
> Kind regards,
> +---+
> | Bas Zoetekouw  | Si l'on sait exactement ce   |
> || que l'on va faire, a quoi|
> | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | bon le faire?|
> |[EMAIL PROTECTED] |   Pablo Picasso  |
> +---+ 
> 
> 
> -- 
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> 
> 



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Re: sid: libc6-2.2.5-4 kills vmware workstation 3.0

[Torsten Landschoff]

On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 01:02:54PM +0200, Jeroen Dekkers wrote:
 
> > In such cases I sometimes decide to run the non-free tool if it saves
> > me some time. After all I want to get my job done and I want to have 
> > some time left for leisure or for working on stuff like free software.
> 
> You restrict yourself to get some leisure. Don't complain that you are
> restricted from doing something afterways when it doesn't work anymore
> and you don't have leisure anymore.

That's fine with me. At least I'll have a lot more leisure when using
an available product instead of re-inventing the wheel. Even RMS used
commercial software when the GNU software for it was not yet written. 
With your logic he would have written the Hurd kernel and gcc, libc, etc. 
before using a computer. And of course he would have written it in 
machine language since there was no sufficiently versatile free C 
compiler available.

> > Like you I want other people to use free software as well because then
> > I hope not being asked about those silly opaque problems in proprietary
> > programs anymore. 
> 
> Please don't see you want it like me. I like it because of moral
> things, you just because you get some advantages of it. If non-free

Please don't tell me why I am using free software. I am using it 
mostly for moral reasons and this is why I am in the Debian project 
after all - I want to give back to the community.

> software give you (short-term) advantages then you even use that. I
> would never do that because free software is always better in the long
> term.

So please don't boot your PC. Or do you have a free BIOS installed? 

> > But I am not going to attack anybody because he 
> > likes the proprietary stuff better, not even if it is extreme silly to 
> > do so. If somebody tells me about yet another Outlook problem I will
> > just smirk and go on to the next email.
> 
> Yes, and I will tell him why he has this problems and that there is
> some solutions for it (namely using a good, free MUA). You just let
> the person helpless, I try to point him to the fix. However if you try
> to help somebody you should not be a debian developers because you

You never tried to help somebody. You are only projecting your view on 
other persons and taking their freedom away. 

Frustrated

Torsten


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Re: sid: libc6-2.2.5-4 kills vmware workstation 3.0

[Marcus Brinkmann]

On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 03:13:57PM +0200, Torsten Landschoff wrote:
> > > In such cases I sometimes decide to run the non-free tool if it saves
> > > me some time. After all I want to get my job done and I want to have 
> > > some time left for leisure or for working on stuff like free software.
> > 
> > You restrict yourself to get some leisure. Don't complain that you are
> > restricted from doing something afterways when it doesn't work anymore
> > and you don't have leisure anymore.
> 
> That's fine with me. At least I'll have a lot more leisure when using
> an available product instead of re-inventing the wheel.

If there are only proprietary programs that do a specific job, and it
is desired to have a free program for this job, then we are forced to
reinvent the wheel by the proprietary programs licenses.

> Even RMS used
> commercial software when the GNU software for it was not yet written. 

You mean proprietary software.  There is no conflict between the GPL
and commerciality (even if Microsoft is trying to implant another
opinion in people's mind).  And yes, he did so because this was the
fastest way to achieve the goal of an entirely free operating system.
This goal has by now been achieved.  You will not find RMS using vmware
for pure convenience.

Thanks,
Marcus


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Re: Release cycle information?...

[Johnny Ernst Nielsen]

Good day Baz,

> > I am researching the Debian release cycle.
> > Where can I find information about how long time there should be
> > between a Stable release and the next Testing freeze?
> > I have searched the Debian web site and the mailings lists, but I
> > have not found any such information.
>
> The reason you can't find anything is probably that there isn't any
> policy about this. Debian releases a new version when it's ready.
> There's currently no release schedule with fixed dates.

Thank you. :o)
I know, but I am not asking about setting release dates.
I am asking if there is a policy about the length of the period 
between a Stable release and the next freeze.

> BTW: the debian-policy mailing list is meant for discussions about
> new debian policy. Your question is probably more on topic on the
> debian-devel mailing list.

I post to policy because I believe it is not a development question, 
but rather a policy question. Like the two-week testing cycle is a 
policy about how to manage testing.
I thought that since policy discusses policies, this list might be 
the proper place for a policy question.

Am I wrong?

Best regards
Johnny Ernst Nielsen :o)


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Re: sid: libc6-2.2.5-4 kills vmware workstation 3.0

[Steve Langasek]

On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 09:43:22AM -0400, Marcus Brinkmann wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 03:13:57PM +0200, Torsten Landschoff wrote:
> > > > In such cases I sometimes decide to run the non-free tool if it saves
> > > > me some time. After all I want to get my job done and I want to have 
> > > > some time left for leisure or for working on stuff like free software.

> > > You restrict yourself to get some leisure. Don't complain that you are
> > > restricted from doing something afterways when it doesn't work anymore
> > > and you don't have leisure anymore.

> > That's fine with me. At least I'll have a lot more leisure when using
> > an available product instead of re-inventing the wheel.

> If there are only proprietary programs that do a specific job, and it
> is desired to have a free program for this job, then we are forced to
> reinvent the wheel by the proprietary programs licenses.

> > Even RMS used
> > commercial software when the GNU software for it was not yet written. 

> You mean proprietary software.  There is no conflict between the GPL
> and commerciality (even if Microsoft is trying to implant another
> opinion in people's mind).  And yes, he did so because this was the
> fastest way to achieve the goal of an entirely free operating system.
> This goal has by now been achieved.  You will not find RMS using vmware
> for pure convenience.

It is naive and short-sighted to think that because RMS takes a hardline
moral stance wherever software use is concerned, anyone who doesn't
behave in exactly the same manner is immoral.  How do you think Free
Software advocacy happens?  Do you think that companies like the one
Daniel Stone works for are one day going to roll over and say, "Oh! I
think we should scrap this Exchange system that's a key part of our
business process, and switch to using Free Software, even though no one
here knows anything about it, because I've heard that Free Software is
better and gives us more freedom!"?  Advocacy /within/ such enterprises 
is a key factor in making the Free Software revolution a reality.  We're 
not going to get there by dividing the world into two parts between 
holier-than-thou Free Software zealots and the Unclean.

Do you think that at the rate he's going, there will ever be enough Free 
Software-only jobs to feed the families of all the people Jeroen insults 
during his lifetime?  I have my doubts.  One thing I /do/ know is that 
treating people as social outcasts when they choose to -- or are forced 
to -- use non-free software isn't going to create those jobs.

Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer


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Re: The GNU FDL is a free license! (Was: Re: O: gnu-standards --GNU coding standards)

[Michael Stutz]

Joe Wreschnig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> What is a document, and what is a program? How can Debian even begin
> to distinguish what makes free documentation different from free
> software when we can't distinguish whether a particular piece of
> data is software or documentation in the first place?

Yes -- this is the heart of the issue right here.

And I say that it doesn't matter -- whether a work is what you call
'software' or 'documentation,' both, or something else entirely is
besides the point.

The point is that people need freedom to control their environment, to
copy and modify, study and sample from the patterns of ones and zeroes
of the published machine-readable works that make up the environment
in which they live and communicate. And that it is not to me the free
software movement anymore -- it is the free information movement.

The issue for Debian now is to decide which way it will go -- is it
that "software wants to be free," or "information wants to be free"?


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Re: Please test this woody cd image

[Raphael Hertzog]

Hi Matt,

Le Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 10:45:35AM -0400, Matt Zimmerman écrivait:
> > release is coming soon ... and we need a bit of feedback about
> > a new feature we plan to use on CD1 of Debian woody for i386.
> 
> On CD *1*?  Surely you don't plan to introduce new features in such a core
> component mere weeks before the scheduled release?  There is no way that it
> could receive sufficient testing in that time.  If we must have a new
> experimental boot feature, it should go on one of the other CDs in the set.

I usually appreciate your enlightened comments, but here they are
not useful at all. This decision has been taken in coordination with
Anthony (yes he was reluctant but it's not like I completely ignored
what he said ...) and you're speaking of things that you don't know
since you haven't followed the complete discussion on debian-cd.

Please trust the debian-cd team and spend your time more wisely ...

> (that said, I see no problem with making the first CD contain fewer packages
> so that it can fit on a 5cm CD; that sounds useful indeed)

This won't happen for the final official images, it's just to ease the
test of the new booting scheme (which is already successfully used by
other distributions).

Cheers,
-- 
Raphaël Hertzog -+- http://strasbourg.linuxfr.org/~raphael/
Formation Linux et logiciel libre : http://www.logidee.com


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Re: Please test this woody cd image

[Matt Zimmerman]

On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 10:15:08AM +0200, Eduard Bloch wrote:

> #include 
> Matt Zimmerman wrote on Wed Apr 10, 2002 um 09:31:12PM:
> > I have installed many SCSI systems (including the one that I'm using right
> > now) with potato CD #1, which I assume has a similar configuration.  I've
> 
> Your assumption is WRONG. The old vanilla Flavor used there had lots of
> drivers. Idepci does not.

In that case, you are making a completely fallacious argument by using
idepci as justification for isolinux.  That is a completely different
decision.

-- 
 - mdz


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Re: Galeon not to be in Woody?

[Joey Hess]

>  * #142317: mozilla-browser: strange middlemouse behavior leads to
>security problem
>Package: mozilla-browser; Severity: grave; Reported by: "C. Scott
>Ananian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Tags: security.

So are there any objections if I clone this bug and reassign the grave
clones to xchat, ssh, vim, lftp, galeon, ytalk, etc? I've found that
middle-clicking into these programs frequently "causes the user's
private data in the clipboard to be accidentally sent across the
network". D'oh.

-- 
see shy jo


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Re: Galeon not to be in Woody?

[Martijn van Oosterhout]

On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 11:08:06AM -0400, Joey Hess wrote:
> >  * #142317: mozilla-browser: strange middlemouse behavior leads to
> >security problem
> >Package: mozilla-browser; Severity: grave; Reported by: "C. Scott
> >Ananian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Tags: security.
> 
> So are there any objections if I clone this bug and reassign the grave
> clones to xchat, ssh, vim, lftp, galeon, ytalk, etc? I've found that
> middle-clicking into these programs frequently "causes the user's
> private data in the clipboard to be accidentally sent across the
> network". D'oh.

What is the fix here? I must admit, I've always liked being able to visit a
link simply by pasting it anywhere in netscape/galeons window.

Sanity check the stuff being pasted?
-- 
Martijn van Oosterhouthttp://svana.org/kleptog/
> Ignorance continues to thrive when intelligent people choose to do
> nothing.  Speaking out against censorship and ignorance is the imperative
> of all intelligent people.


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Re: Galeon not to be in Woody?

[Steve Langasek]

On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 11:08:06AM -0400, Joey Hess wrote:
> >  * #142317: mozilla-browser: strange middlemouse behavior leads to
> >security problem
> >Package: mozilla-browser; Severity: grave; Reported by: "C. Scott
> >Ananian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Tags: security.

> So are there any objections if I clone this bug and reassign the grave
> clones to xchat, ssh, vim, lftp, galeon, ytalk, etc? I've found that
> middle-clicking into these programs frequently "causes the user's
> private data in the clipboard to be accidentally sent across the
> network". D'oh.

Actually, I've found that xchat has rather nice handling of text 
pasting, in that it converts newlines into soft-returns so that you can 
review your paste before accidentally sending it across the network. ;)

Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer


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Re: Galeon not to be in Woody?

[Anthony Towns]

On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 11:08:06AM -0400, Joey Hess wrote:
> >  * #142317: mozilla-browser: strange middlemouse behavior leads to
> >security problem
> >Package: mozilla-browser; Severity: grave; Reported by: "C. Scott
> >Ananian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Tags: security.
> So are there any objections if I clone this bug and reassign the grave
> clones to xchat, ssh, vim, lftp, galeon, ytalk, etc? I've found that
> middle-clicking into these programs frequently "causes the user's
> private data in the clipboard to be accidentally sent across the
> network". D'oh.

Are you being serious or was that rhetorical? [0]

That's the sort of bug I'd downgrade without a second thought, personally.

Cheers,
aj

[0] There was a time when I wouldn't've had a second thought about
the answer to that question, either... :)

-- 
Anthony Towns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
I don't speak for anyone save myself. GPG signed mail preferred.

 ``BAM! Science triumphs again!'' 
-- http://www.angryflower.com/vegeta.gif


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Faster Release Cycle = More Up to date Packages...

[Johnny Ernst Nielsen]

NOTE!
I am *not* talking about release dates.
(Anyone who starts talking release dates from hereon will be taken 
out back and given an ice cold shower-down ;o))

Through time many people have criticised Stable Debian for having an 
extremely slow release cycle, which causes an outdated distribution 
-- even before it is released.
See [1] and [2].
Especially [3] is a good analysis of the problem.

After a handful of words I will propose a remidy to speed up the 
release cycle, as well as make Debian a current distribution -- 
without compromising Debian quality or policies, or the daily 
development work.

Debian's current problem with old packages can be seen by the fact 
that a number of vendors have reportedly dumped the current Stable 
release in favor of the Testing distribution some time ago.
That can only mean that currentness of content has become more 
important than bugs, security and stability.
It means that Debian is not in balance with currentness of contents.
Debian can not continue down that path without compromising Debians 
own policy of supporting its users.

The introduction of Testing does not seem to have helped the release 
cycle as the freeze for Debian 3.0 has been going for about 5 months, 
and there are still 68 RC bugs left at the time of this writing.
At the current pace 3.0 may be out right around May 1St 2002.
At that time it will have been more than 1 year and 6 months since 
the previous point release, which by then contains packages more than 
1 year and 6 months old.
To make things worse, 3.0 contents will at the time of release 
already be about 6 months out of date.

That is very slow and very old considering that most other 
distributions release about every 6 months, or faster.

As Debian expands, this can only get worse.

---THE PROBLEM---

There is an issue depency list for the problem.

The main issue:
- How up to date the packages in the distribution is.

The package currentness issue is controlled by an other issue:
- How long the period of a freeze lasts before all RC bugs are fixed.

The freeze period issue in turn is controlled by a third issue:
- How long the development period is between the last stable release 
and the next freeze.

Since the currentness of the packages is controlled by two time 
factors, those two time factors are what I wil concentrate on here.

What makes up the development period between a Stable release and the 
next freeze is undefined.
It is up to the release manager to figure out when he thinks it is 
time for a new release.
Refer to the Debian Developer's Reference; Chapter 5 The Debian 
Archive; Section 5.6.1 Stable, testing, and unstable; Paragraph 4:
"After a period of development, once the release manager deems fit, 
the testing distribution is frozen..."

What makes up the freezing period is primarily fixing RC bugs. The 
more RC bugs present in Testing when it freezes, the longer time the 
freeze will last before all bugs are fixed so that Testing can become 
Stable and can be released.
Hence, the more RC bugs in Testing when it freezes, the longer the 
Stable release cycle period since the freeze adds to that period.

Shortening the Stable release cycle (Testing development period, plus 
Testing freeze period) will improve the currentness of Debian 
packages (as shown a bit further up in the Issue Dependency List.)

There is one things that we can not compromise:
Debian releases when Debian is ready.
Meaning: We do not set release dates.
(OK - Strictly, I have to go for a shower-down now ;o))

However, that does not exclude adding time management internally in 
the Debian development procedures.

One big thing that controls the number of RC bugs in Testing (and 
thus, how long time a freeze period will last) is how long time is 
between a Stable release and the next Testing freeze.
In that period, Testing is open to contributions from Unstable, and 
by and large it is therefore Unstable that introduces RC bugs into 
Testing.
The longer time Testing is open to contributions from Unstable, the 
more RC bugs testing will end up with before a freeze.
This "open timeframe" defines Testing's development period.

---THE SOLUTION PROPOSAL---

I will propose a remidy to reduce the number of RC bugs in Testing, 
speed up the overall release cycle, and improve the currentness of 
Debian packages.

The main proposal is to introduce a fixed short Testing development 
period into the development cycle like this:

1. Feed Unstable packages to Testing for a fixed short period of time.
2. Freeze, bugfix, release.
Repeat.

For the sake of examples, I could imagine the Testing development 
period being defined to last for 3 months.

Since the freeze period seldomly is as long as the development 
period, 3 months of development plus freeze should add up to a  
Debian release cycle of approximately 6 months or faster.

Introducing a fixed short development period for Testing 
automatically reduces the time between Stable releases.
Limiting the ti

Re: Please test this woody cd image

[Matt Zimmerman]

On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 04:55:03PM +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote:

> Le Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 10:45:35AM -0400, Matt Zimmerman écrivait:
> > On CD *1*?  Surely you don't plan to introduce new features in such a
> > core component mere weeks before the scheduled release?  There is no way
> > that it could receive sufficient testing in that time.  If we must have
> > a new experimental boot feature, it should go on one of the other CDs in
> > the set.
> 
> I usually appreciate your enlightened comments, but here they are not
> useful at all. This decision has been taken in coordination with Anthony
> (yes he was reluctant but it's not like I completely ignored what he said
> ...) and you're speaking of things that you don't know since you haven't
> followed the complete discussion on debian-cd.
> 
> Please trust the debian-cd team and spend your time more wisely ...

It's true, in the end this is not my decision, and the final result will (as
usual) be determined by consensus.  If I am truly alone in my concerns, then
my ranting won't matter, but the only way to find out is to make loud
noises.  I will of course continue to help test the installation process.

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Re: sid: libc6-2.2.5-4 kills vmware workstation 3.0

[Jeroen Dekkers]

On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 03:13:57PM +0200, Torsten Landschoff wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 01:02:54PM +0200, Jeroen Dekkers wrote:
>  
> > > In such cases I sometimes decide to run the non-free tool if it saves
> > > me some time. After all I want to get my job done and I want to have 
> > > some time left for leisure or for working on stuff like free software.
> > 
> > You restrict yourself to get some leisure. Don't complain that you are
> > restricted from doing something afterways when it doesn't work anymore
> > and you don't have leisure anymore.
> 
> That's fine with me. At least I'll have a lot more leisure when using
> an available product instead of re-inventing the wheel. Even RMS used
> commercial software when the GNU software for it was not yet written. 
> With your logic he would have written the Hurd kernel and gcc, libc, etc. 
> before using a computer. And of course he would have written it in 
> machine language since there was no sufficiently versatile free C 
> compiler available.

Software always used to be free. That changed, but RMS didn't
change. I don't what software he used to write parts of GNU, but it
could have been free, there was enough free software at time. Oh, and
1) the Hurd isn't a kernel 2) RMS has never written anything of
it AFAIK.

> > > Like you I want other people to use free software as well because then
> > > I hope not being asked about those silly opaque problems in proprietary
> > > programs anymore. 
> > 
> > Please don't see you want it like me. I like it because of moral
> > things, you just because you get some advantages of it. If non-free
> 
> Please don't tell me why I am using free software. I am using it 
> mostly for moral reasons and this is why I am in the Debian project 
> after all - I want to give back to the community.

You just said that you wanted other people to use free software
because you probably won't get any questions about non-free software
anymore. I don't consider that a moral reason, but if you also have
other reasons, I take that back.

> > software give you (short-term) advantages then you even use that. I
> > would never do that because free software is always better in the long
> > term.
> 
> So please don't boot your PC. Or do you have a free BIOS installed? 

No, because it's unavoidable to have a non-free BIOS, read just what I
said.

> > > But I am not going to attack anybody because he 
> > > likes the proprietary stuff better, not even if it is extreme silly to 
> > > do so. If somebody tells me about yet another Outlook problem I will
> > > just smirk and go on to the next email.
> > 
> > Yes, and I will tell him why he has this problems and that there is
> > some solutions for it (namely using a good, free MUA). You just let
> > the person helpless, I try to point him to the fix. However if you try
> > to help somebody you should not be a debian developers because you
> 
> You never tried to help somebody. 

I haven't?

> You are only projecting your view on 
> other persons and taking their freedom away. 

Where did I take anybodies freedom away? Please don't pick random
sentences and use them on me.

Jeroen Dekkers
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Re: [2002-04-06] Release Status Update

[Paul Slootman]

On Thu 11 Apr 2002, Matijs van Zuijlen wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 02:14:41PM +0200, Russell Coker wrote:

> The method described on http://www.sateh.com/hacks/alcatel.php certainly
> looks like a hack. It basically describes a way to convert a Home model
> to a Pro model without paying. Given the price difference 'Home' and

That's the hack I was referring to.

> > I'm surprised to hear it's a hack.  I am working for a major Dutch company 
> > that is planning a major roll-out of broadband connected machines, and we 
> > are 
> > planning to reconfigure all such modems as part of the standard 
> > installation.

Perhaps they have worked out a deal with Alcatel? Upgrading the firmware
officially (as the latest types won't accept the "sateh" hack).


Paul Slootman


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Re: sid: libc6-2.2.5-4 kills vmware workstation 3.0

[Steve Langasek]

On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 05:33:16PM +0200, Jeroen Dekkers wrote:

> Oh, and 1) the Hurd isn't a kernel

Wonderful news!  Does this mean that we can expect the
'-the-linux-kernel-packages-should-all-have-linux-in-the-name-'
thread to not repeat itself?

Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer


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Re: Please test this woody cd image

[Matt Zimmerman]

On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 10:12:28AM +0200, Eduard Bloch wrote:

> Did YOU help introducing ANY new features in boot-floppies? I18n? Kernel
> 2.4, other filesystems, RAID support, lots of bugfixes in the existing
> code, etc.  etc.? Either you can continue your mission of distruction, or
> you stop crying about lost time.

You have never helped with my projects, but I still listen when you report
bugs or express concerns.  This is not too much to ask.

> If we should work out and discuss every feature (needing some weeks), then
> test it some months, we won't release Woody before 2003.

Good idea.  We should definitely stop discussing features before
implementing them, and cut back on testing.

I'm finished with this argument, and I'm going to go test the isolinux
images.

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Re: Galeon not to be in Woody?

[Paul Slootman]

On Thu 11 Apr 2002, Joey Hess wrote:

> >  * #142317: mozilla-browser: strange middlemouse behavior leads to
> >security problem
> 
> So are there any objections if I clone this bug and reassign the grave
> clones to xchat, ssh, vim, lftp, galeon, ytalk, etc? I've found that
> middle-clicking into these programs frequently "causes the user's
> private data in the clipboard to be accidentally sent across the
> network". D'oh.

Is this bug report really about what I think it is?! Pasting an URL with
the middle button is supported by netscape, opera, mozilla, ...  It's
pretty standard behaviour. Read the docs or at least think about how
something like this is useful, before complaining about "strange
middlemouse behavior".

"Duh, they should fix thumb-tacks so I don't hurt myself when I use them
the wrong way round."


Paul Slootman


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Re: Debian Conference 2 Registration

[Josip Rodin]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 09:15:24PM -0300, Carlos Laviola wrote:
> > No. This is directed at the people who would mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
> > mesages like "Go home proprietary l0s0rz! j00 are l4m3! Debian doesn't
> > need you! Signed, [EMAIL PROTECTED]"
> 
> Well, it seems to me like you're implying there would be
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] that would be so lame that they would not know the
> difference between criticizing what can be very easily criticized (i.e., this
> infamous IIS server) and directly attacking someone like a script kiddie
> would do.  Frankly, I expect more of my fellow developers, and I think
> you should, too.

Yes, I agree we should expect more, but usually we can't.

-- 
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Re: [2002-04-06] Release Status Update

[Bernd Eckenfels]

On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 10:18:08AM +0200, Russell Coker wrote:
> You only need pptp-linux if you use an Ethernet attached modem instead of the 
> USB attached modem (which is E50 cheaper).

This does not make sence at all. PPTP is also a WAN Tunneling and VPN
Protocol. How can a Linux Router speek PPTP without linux-pptp package? This
is a often used VPN Solution to Windows servers. And if there is no bug, it
is not a good idea to remove the package.

Greetings
Bernd


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Re: Please test this woody cd image

[Josip Rodin]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 06:02:28PM -0400, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> > > 10 days != long enough to test a completely different _primary_ way of
> > > booting the installation system.
> > 
> > a) isolinux is not completely new. It is syslinux, extended with ability
> >of reading iso9660. Show me one failure (caused not by general
> >problems, i.e. with some laptops not beeing able to boot _any_
> >mkisofs-made cdrom) and I will shut up.
> 
> The burden of proof is on you, who want to make a change with such broad
> effect so late in the release cycle.

Well, so far their solution is working out, at least I don't see anyone
complaining after the announcements :)

/me holds his fingers crossed and goes to find a CD-R

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Re: Packages still in Potato

[Josip Rodin]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 03:57:26PM -0400, Bob Hilliard wrote:
>  These packages have not needed any updates.
[...]
>   Is it really necessary to make a new upload, rather
> than copying or linking these packages to the pool?
> 
>  I will make a new upload before the woody release if it is
> necessary to do so.  Please let me know it this is required.

It's not necessary.

Otto's mails seem to be useful only as a way to find invalid "Maintainer:"
fields, because the good maintainers won't care and could only get misled
into thinking they need to upload, and the bad ones will ignore the mail
anyway.

-- 
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Re: Faster Release Cycle = More Up to date Packages...

[Joey Hess]

Johnny Ernst Nielsen wrote:
> Debian's current problem with old packages can be seen by the fact 
> that a number of vendors have reportedly dumped the current Stable 
> release in favor of the Testing distribution some time ago.
> That can only mean that currentness of content has become more 
> important than bugs, security and stability.
> It means that Debian is not in balance with currentness of contents.
> Debian can not continue down that path without compromising Debians 
> own policy of supporting its users.

So someone was more interesed in currency than in stability, and they
swiched from the debian tree that emphases the later to the tree that
emphasises the former. And what was the problem again?

> The package currentness issue is controlled by an other issue:
> - How long the period of a freeze lasts before all RC bugs are fixed.

Wrong. You would do well to make sure you're fully up-to-date on how
debian's release process is currently handled before posting half-baked
critisism of it. A casual persusual of the last 10 months or so of
postings to debian-devel-announce might be a useful first step.

> The main proposal is to introduce a fixed short Testing development 
> period into the development cycle like this:
> 
> 1. Feed Unstable packages to Testing for a fixed short period of time.

So you think that dumping a large number of upstream updates of packages
into testing in a very short period of time will result in a better
integrated and less buggy debian. I see.

> For the sake of examples, I could imagine the Testing development 
> period being defined to last for 3 months.

As, for example, it was planned to be in between the releases of hamm
and potato, IIRC. And we know how well that worked.

> Introducing a fixed short development period for Testing 
> automatically reduces the time between Stable releases.
> Limiting the time during which Testing is able to recieve RC bugs 
> from Unstable (the Testing development period), should reduce the 
> number of RC bugs in Testing, and thus shorten the freeze time.

Here's something to think about. Base has been frozen for 8 months,
tasks + standard have been quasi-frozen for several months, and yet we
are still getting new release critical bugs filed on those sections of
the distribution, on a daily basis. Why do you think that might be?

> a lot of time for RC bugs to get from Unstable to Testing, thus 
> prolonging the resulting Woody Testing freeze, thus adding to the age 
> of the packages in Stable 3.0. They will be about 6 months old at the 
> time of release (half a year).

The versions of mozilla and X in testing are not 6 months old.

-- 
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Re: GNU FDL (was Re: Bug#141561: gnu-standards: Non-free software in main)

[Manoj Srivastava]

>>"Steve" == Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

 Steve> I'd be happy to hear clarifications from the author and
 Steve> contemporaries, then; to be honest, my memory of Debian
 Steve> history isn't good enough to even know who to approach.  (The
 Steve> debian-doc package is conspicuously lacking of the relevant
 Steve> copyright information, btw. :)

Well, if y'all can trust my aging memory, this is my impression
 of how things were.

From what I recall of that time, there was tension between the
 pragmatists(Hi Alex) and the GPL proponents* (of which at that time, I
 was one). The argument of the pragmatists was similar to what one
 hears on lkml right now vis-a-vis BitKeeper -- it is stupid to chose
 an inferior solution over a better one merely for licensing reasons,
 mention was made of things being free enough (essentially all we have
 in non-free is was deemed free enough), and the ultimate end goal was
 to produce the best, most useful, distribution ever. Also, the
 argument went that one needed to be pragmatic about software people
 ran if one were not to be marginalized  and made irrelevant; hence we
 needed to support ``real software that people used''. The GPL people
 were for essentially removing all non free software from Debian.

I don't think non software stuff even occurred to anyone at
 the time, so I don't think the argument that the DFSG precludes
 anything that is not software holds water (aside from the fact that
 anything on a website or on a debian cd can arguably be called
 software anyway).

The DFSG was a compromise: we said that only free software
 shall be a part of debian (hurrays from the GPL proponents), whike
 recognizing the needs for users to run software we did not feel were
 licensed under a free license. [The next bit is my OPINION]. The core
 of the philosophy was one of choice: we preferred free software, bit
 we did not constrain or coerce people to it; we advocated free
 software, but still provided help and support for users not yet
 running only free software; the premise was that people would realize
 on their own the virtues of free software, and as time went on, the
 non-free stuff would wither on its own accord. The users came above
 evangelizing free software.

The tenor of the project has changed.  No one argues that we
 need the non free stuff to survive anymore. The membership also seems
 to have shifted towards a more radical^H^H^H^Henthusiastic support of
 _only_ free software, and helping people use whatever they wish on
 Debian, while providing them with free alternatives, seems to be on
 the wane. I, for one, still believe in offering people alternatives
 and choices, within Debian, and letting them choose. 

I'm sure that people shall rise up and flame me resoundingly
 for revisionist history, and set the record straight according to
 their recollection ;-). 

manoj
 putting on absestos long johns

*This category includes the DFSG free licenses like BSD, X, Artistic,
 as well
-- 
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Re: Galeon not to be in Woody?

[Joey Hess]

Anthony Towns wrote:
> Are you being serious or was that rhetorical? [0]

> [0] There was a time when I wouldn't've had a second thought about
> the answer to that question, either... :)

I think "facetious" is the word you're looking for. :-P

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Re: Python module for debconf

[Manoj Srivastava]

>>"Adam" == Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

 Adam> The byte compilation should be done when the package is built,
 Adam> not at runtime, not at install time.

That's certainly an opinion, though it does not address the
 technical reasons that prompted the compile-at-install behaviour we
 have now. We have two different kinds of (divergent) emacsen, and I
 think 5 versions between the two of them, byte compiling at build
 time would need a) all the flavours of emacsen to be in the build
 depends (which would certainly be a burden to me, a emacs lisp
 [package maintainer), and b) require 5 or more packages, c) an
 upgrade of emacs could mean that the byte code became incompatible,
 so a recompile would be needed. 

manoj
-- 
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 Green Ingersoll
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Re: Please test this woody cd image

[Paul Hedderly]

On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 10:12:28AM +0200, Eduard Bloch wrote:
> 
> Did YOU help introducing ANY new features in boot-floppies? I18n? Kernel
> 2.4, other filesystems, RAID support, lots of bugfixes in the existing
> code, etc.  etc.? Either you can continue your mission of distruction,
> or you stop crying about lost time. If we should work out and discuss
> every feature (needing some weeks), then test it some months, we won't
> release Woody before 2003.

No I didn't. I think this use of isolinux is fantastic. I've been having
a gander (unlike some other posters to this thread I suspect) and there
is nothing really new here - it really is using just a slightly
different syslinux binary and combining the syslinux.cfg's together with
access to all the discs in one. I can't see the big deal.

What I would provide/recommend is including a "smartboot" windows and
linux binaries - this can write a very simple boot floppy that will boot
cdroms on most machines with older non el-torito BIOS's.

Thumbs up for Isolinux CD #1.
--
Paul


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Re: sid: libc6-2.2.5-4 kills vmware workstation 3.0

[Torsten Landschoff]

On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 09:43:22AM -0400, Marcus Brinkmann wrote:
> If there are only proprietary programs that do a specific job, and it
> is desired to have a free program for this job, then we are forced to
> reinvent the wheel by the proprietary programs licenses.

Forced to by whom? By Jeroen, RMS and you? If there is the proprietary 
program available I can still choose if I am willing to pay for it 
or if I am willing to put in the efforts to build something similar. 

> > Even RMS used
> > commercial software when the GNU software for it was not yet written. 
> 
> You mean proprietary software.  There is no conflict between the GPL

Yeah, right, I knew this would come up. I am just short of synonyms for
proprietary and I did not want to repeat a word all the time since that
is bad style at least in german.

> and commerciality (even if Microsoft is trying to implant another
> opinion in people's mind).  And yes, he did so because this was the
> fastest way to achieve the goal of an entirely free operating system.
> This goal has by now been achieved.  You will not find RMS using vmware
> for pure convenience.

Okay, right, bad parable. But I am allowed to be a worse guy than RMS, 
trying to have a real life as well and trying to get the job done. Neither
you nor Jeroen will take that away.

Thanks

Torsten


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Re: David D.W. Downey - Old Key 42D8F306 Signed by New Key C5A76BF6

[Manoj Srivastava]

>>"David" == David D W Downey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

 David> So far I've done the following

 David> 1) Replaced the OLD key (42D8F306) with the NEW one (C5A76BF6).

Replaced where?

 David> 2) Signed the OLD public key (42D8F306) with the NEW one (C5A76BF6).

 David> 3) Posted the OLD public key (42D8F306) signed with the NEW key's
 David>(C5A76BF6) signature to the following
 David> 1) public keyservers
 David> 2) debian-devel@lists.debian.org
 David> 3) main upstream source site for affected packages

 David> 3) Put the newly signed OLD public key (42D8F306) on the upstream
 David>website in an ascii file for download with an embedded signature.

 David> 4) Posted the NEW public key (C5A76BF6) to the following:
 David> 1) public keyservers
 David> 2) debian-devel@lists.debian.org
 David> 3) Main upstream source site for affected packages

 David> 5) Notified affected parties via the debian-devel@lists.debian.org
 David>newsgroup of all steps taken, starting from loss, to replacement,
 David>to link path taken.

Have you done anything that I can't do as well right now? I
 mean, I can download your old key, create a new one, and do all you
 have outlined?

manoj
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 steel mill!
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Re: sid: libc6-2.2.5-4 kills vmware workstation 3.0

[Torsten Landschoff]

On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 05:33:16PM +0200, Jeroen Dekkers wrote:
> > That's fine with me. At least I'll have a lot more leisure when using
> > an available product instead of re-inventing the wheel. Even RMS used
> > commercial software when the GNU software for it was not yet written. 
> > With your logic he would have written the Hurd kernel and gcc, libc, etc. 
> > before using a computer. And of course he would have written it in 
> > machine language since there was no sufficiently versatile free C 
> > compiler available.
> 
> Software always used to be free. That changed, but RMS didn't
> change. I don't what software he used to write parts of GNU, but it
> could have been free, there was enough free software at time. Oh, and
> 1) the Hurd isn't a kernel 2) RMS has never written anything of
> it AFAIK.

1) Okay, right, Mach is the kernel used in the Hurd. 
2) I did not say he did. But he should have done it if he is really 
   using only free software.

Apart from this I am giving up. My time is limited. Think whatever you
want about me but please send polite emails to Debian users if they just
have a problem with a non-free product they are using on Debian. If they
run Debian they are probably already on the right track.

cu
Torsten


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Re: sid: libc6-2.2.5-4 kills vmware workstation 3.0

[Jeroen Dekkers]

On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 10:46:12AM -0500, Steve Langasek wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 05:33:16PM +0200, Jeroen Dekkers wrote:
> 
> > Oh, and 1) the Hurd isn't a kernel
> 
> Wonderful news!  Does this mean that we can expect the
> '-the-linux-kernel-packages-should-all-have-linux-in-the-name-'
> thread to not repeat itself?

No, as woody is not yet released.

Jeroen Dekkers
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Re: how-to push a package in testing ?

[Julien BLACHE]

Anthony Towns  wrote:

Hi *,

[libusb-dependent packages not making it into Woody]

> sane-backends has two RC bugs, one of which has been open for more than a
> week. 139509 appears like it should get sane-backends to build on mips; it's
> not clear what'll fix it on alpha, but that needs to happen too.

Fixed.
 
> sane-frontends has a versioned build-dependency on libc6-dev, which makes
> it fail on alpha and ia64, since those architectures use libc6.1-dev (which
> provides: libc6-dev).

Fixed.

> gphoto2 doesn't build correctly on arm, see:
>   http://buildd.debian.org/build.php?arch=arm&pkg=gphoto2&ver=2.0final-3
> 
> kdegraphics seems to need a newer version of gphoto2 to be built on arm
> before it will work.

The two packages are now built on arm.

> There may be other packages which need to be upgraded at the same time
> as libusb. All of them need to be built on all architectures and free
> of release critical bugs for this to happen.

As of now, all packages are clear of RC bugs, and marked as valid
candidates. However, they still do not make it into Woody.

I believe we (maintainers depending on libusb) all have the same
problem : we all need these packages in the release, for some reason
or another.

Aj, could you please have a look at this issue ?

Thanks.

JB.


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unable to mount the floppy disk

[Blinky]

hi.

just tested the woody-bootdisks (for a installation via network).
unfortunaly i can't load the driver-disks (driver-1.img and driver-2.img). i
always get a critical error with the message 'unable to mount the floppy
disk'.
this is why i can't install debian on the hard disks (scsi-disks on an icp
vortex controller [gdth driver]).

platform: i386

any suggestions?

thanks in advance.

daniel

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Re: Python module for debconf

[Matt Zimmerman]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 03:30:08PM -0400, Alan Shutko wrote:

> Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > The byte compilation should be done when the package is built, not
> > at runtime, not at install time.
> 
> So you're saying that the maintainer should need to either create
> separate packages for a given add-on for all current (and future)
> Emacs flavors, or that they should include the byte-code for all
> current (and future) Emacs flavors within the one package, even though
> for most people that will be useless data?

And build-depend on all available versions of emacs...

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Re: Imp 3.0/3.1 debian packages?

[Matt Zimmerman]

On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 12:18:42PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:

> What's the status of newer imp packages for woody/sid?

The first place to check when you have questions about the status of a
package is http://bugs.debian.org/.  In this case, you would have
found:

* #92698: IMP3 yes it is about to packaged, questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Package: imp; Severity: wishlist; Reported by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Tags:
pending; merged with #135217; 1 year and 9 days old.
* #135217: New upstream release
Package: imp; Severity: wishlist; Reported by: Luis Bustamante
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Tags: pending; merged with #92698; 48 days old. 

See http://bugs.debian.org/92698

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Re: Faster Release Cycle = More Up to date Packages...

[Matt Zimmerman]

On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 05:20:27PM +0200, Johnny Ernst Nielsen wrote:

> At the current pace 3.0 may be out right around May 1St 2002.
> At that time it will have been more than 1 year and 6 months since 
> the previous point release, which by then contains packages more than 
> 1 year and 6 months old.

Er, it will have been less than 1 month since the most recent point release.

 The current ``stable'' distribution of Debian GNU/Linux is version 2.2r6,
codenamed potato. It was released on April 3rd, 2002

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Re: GNU FDL (was Re: Bug#141561: gnu-standards: Non-free software in main)

[Jaldhar H. Vyas]

On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, Manoj Srivastava wrote:

> The membership also seems
>  to have shifted towards a more radical^H^H^H^Henthusiastic support of
>  _only_ free software, and helping people use whatever they wish on
>  Debian, while providing them with free alternatives, seems to be on
>  the wane.

In part this is because thanks to apt-get and more widespread knowledge of
Debian packaging, it doesn't matter so much if the software is at
ftp.debian.org or ftp.evilhoarder.com anymore.  For myself, I don't even
bother bring up non-free stuff here anymore though I continue to use it.
Things like signed packages and LSB conformance should make it even easier
to use non-free software with Debian and I'm willing to bet many uers and
developers will continue to take advantage of it.  IMO, The status quo
satisfies most people and there would be opposition to attempts to
obstruct the use of non-free software.  Witness the response to Jeroen.

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Re: Faster Release Cycle = More Up to date Packages...

[Torsten Landschoff]

On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 05:20:27PM +0200, Johnny Ernst Nielsen wrote:
 
> The main proposal is to introduce a fixed short Testing development 
> period into the development cycle like this:
> 
> 1. Feed Unstable packages to Testing for a fixed short period of time.
> 2. Freeze, bugfix, release.
> Repeat.

This was the whole idea of testing. Experience shows it does not work. 
Please try again - but please wait with discussing it until after May 1st
so we can finally get the fucking release done.

Greetings

Torsten


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Re: GNU FDL (was Re: Bug#141561: gnu-standards: Non-free software in main)

[Jeff Licquia]

On Thu, 2002-04-11 at 12:43, Jaldhar H. Vyas wrote:
> Witness the response to Jeroen.

I don't think we can draw any conclusion from the response to Jeroen
other than "a lot of us think rudeness is a bad thing".  (Including even
Jeroen himself, per his apology a few flames back in that thread.)


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Re: [2002-04-06] Release Status Update

[Keith G. Murphy]

Bernd Eckenfels wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 10:18:08AM +0200, Russell Coker wrote:
> > You only need pptp-linux if you use an Ethernet attached modem instead of 
> > the
> > USB attached modem (which is E50 cheaper).
> 
> This does not make sence at all. PPTP is also a WAN Tunneling and VPN
> Protocol. How can a Linux Router speek PPTP without linux-pptp package? This
> is a often used VPN Solution to Windows servers. And if there is no bug, it
> is not a good idea to remove the package.
> 
Do ya think they're talking about PPPOE, rather than pptp?  It would
make more sense in that context...


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Re: sid: libc6-2.2.5-4 kills vmware workstation 3.0

[Marcus Brinkmann]

On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 09:09:58AM -0500, Steve Langasek wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 09:43:22AM -0400, Marcus Brinkmann wrote:
> > On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 03:13:57PM +0200, Torsten Landschoff wrote:
> > > > > In such cases I sometimes decide to run the non-free tool if it saves
> > > > > me some time. After all I want to get my job done and I want to have 
> > > > > some time left for leisure or for working on stuff like free software.
> 
> > > > You restrict yourself to get some leisure. Don't complain that you are
> > > > restricted from doing something afterways when it doesn't work anymore
> > > > and you don't have leisure anymore.
> 
> > > That's fine with me. At least I'll have a lot more leisure when using
> > > an available product instead of re-inventing the wheel.
> 
> > If there are only proprietary programs that do a specific job, and it
> > is desired to have a free program for this job, then we are forced to
> > reinvent the wheel by the proprietary programs licenses.
> 
> > > Even RMS used
> > > commercial software when the GNU software for it was not yet written. 
> 
> > You mean proprietary software.  There is no conflict between the GPL
> > and commerciality (even if Microsoft is trying to implant another
> > opinion in people's mind).  And yes, he did so because this was the
> > fastest way to achieve the goal of an entirely free operating system.
> > This goal has by now been achieved.  You will not find RMS using vmware
> > for pure convenience.
> 
> It is naive and short-sighted to think that because RMS takes a hardline
> moral stance wherever software use is concerned, anyone who doesn't
> behave in exactly the same manner is immoral.

Hu, I am neither sure if you really know how hard RMS' stance on this is,
nor who you believe thinks that way.

> How do you think Free
> Software advocacy happens?

I have never seen anyone being more active and more successful in free
software advocacy than the FSF and FSF europe.  I prefer their advice
on how such advocacy works over yours.

This said, it might be to the advantage of free software if for
example you get a government to use a heterogenous solution with a
mixture of free software and non-free software, rather than a
homogenously non-free solution.  It depends on the details.

However, the only small point I was trying to make is that Thorsten
implied in his mail that RMS would agree to use a non-free program
over working on a free replacement just because it is more convenient,
That this is simply not true is public knowledge (there are lots of
examples where he encouraged people to write free replacements for
proprietary programs) [1].  I am somewhat surprised to see this simple
matter of fact used as a jumping board for your rants.

Thanks,
Marcus

[1] Now, he _did_ use a non-free system to write gcc and emacs on, and
Thomas gave the right reasons for it, it would just be an too enormous
task not to do so.  It was very ambitious a project already with doing
so.  And the reason why the development of the core was delayed so
long is also known: Because writing the core of an operating system is
a very complex task.


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Re: Dependencies on libpgsql2.1

[Colin Watson]

On Mon, Apr 08, 2002 at 05:49:45PM -0500, Colin Watson wrote:
> To clarify, not all of these packages are buggy in sid. The ones (by
> source package) that have a problem appear to be something like this at
> the moment:
> 
>   courier-ssl dbf2sql ddt gql gtksql guile-pg libch libnss-pgsql
>   netsaint-plugins pike7-crypto psycopg python-pgsql qttudo

All of these are now either fixed, at least in the queue/accepted
directory, or are due to be removed. There's also a nasty interaction
with various packages that have strict dependencies on a particular
upstream version of ruby (this pulls in vim too due to vim-ruby), so
quite a lot of packages need to be eligible for testing at the same
time.

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Intent to remove: tom, libtom2

[Bart Schuller]

Hi,

I'm the maintainer of "tom", an experimental programming language. The
archives contain a version from October 1999. Trying to recompile it now
on a sid machine fails.

Upstream development on this implementation was already dead, as they
switched to a new system writen in tom itself. And there too development
has stopped.

It's my opinion that this package serves no useful purpose and should be
removed from testing and unstable. Note that I can file a "does not
build" bug easily if usefulness doesn't seem like a good criterion.

Speak now or forever hold your peace...

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Re: Please test this woody cd image

[Erik Andersen]

On Thu Apr 11, 2002 at 08:31:55PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> Seriously: everyone reading this mail, burn a copy of Raphael's test image
> on a CD and try booting it in any computers you have handy. If it doesn't
> work on a machine where a potato CD does boot, please mail the lists!

I just tested it on all the bootable x86 systems in my house:

Dell Latitude C800 laptop:   Works
Dell Webpc thing:Works
Toshiba 490CDT Satellite Pro Laptop: Works
Compaq Armada 7730MT Laptop: Works
Desktop box (VIA KT266A chipset/Athlon): Works

I'm pleased to report 100% success at booting using isolinux.

 -Erik

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Re: sid: libc6-2.2.5-4 kills vmware workstation 3.0

[Marcus Brinkmann]

On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 06:33:34PM +0200, Torsten Landschoff wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 09:43:22AM -0400, Marcus Brinkmann wrote:
> > If there are only proprietary programs that do a specific job, and it
> > is desired to have a free program for this job, then we are forced to
> > reinvent the wheel by the proprietary programs licenses.
> 
> Forced to by whom?

By the license on the proprietary programs of course, because we can't
reuse their code.  Just as I said in the paragraph you replied to.  A
similar problems occurs with software patents that are not freely
licensed.

> By Jeroen, RMS and you? If there is the proprietary 
> program available I can still choose if I am willing to pay for it 
> or if I am willing to put in the efforts to build something similar. 

Yes, and if you are willing to put in the efforts you are forced to
reinvent the wheel because you can't reuse the proprietary code.

> > > Even RMS used
> > > commercial software when the GNU software for it was not yet written. 
> > 
> > You mean proprietary software.  There is no conflict between the GPL
> 
> Yeah, right, I knew this would come up. I am just short of synonyms for
> proprietary and I did not want to repeat a word all the time since that
> is bad style at least in german.

Using a completely different word is not a way out, and only leads to
misunderstandings and communication problems.  Please don't do that.
Using the same specific term for the same specific meaning is not bad
style, but consistency, and important in any technical discussion.
(Or, to pick another example, look into law texts for a place where
repition is used, and very important for exactly the same reasons).

Thanks,
MArcus


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Re: how-to push a package in testing ?

[christophe barbé]

I don't understand why all theses packages are not entering woody.
As Julien explained, everything seems to be clean.

I believe we need some manual help.

Thanks,
Christophe

On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 07:11:32PM +0200, Julien BLACHE wrote:
> Anthony Towns  wrote:
> 
> Hi *,
> 
> [libusb-dependent packages not making it into Woody]
> 
> > sane-backends has two RC bugs, one of which has been open for more than a
> > week. 139509 appears like it should get sane-backends to build on mips; it's
> > not clear what'll fix it on alpha, but that needs to happen too.
> 
> Fixed.
>  
> > sane-frontends has a versioned build-dependency on libc6-dev, which makes
> > it fail on alpha and ia64, since those architectures use libc6.1-dev (which
> > provides: libc6-dev).
> 
> Fixed.
> 
> > gphoto2 doesn't build correctly on arm, see:
> > http://buildd.debian.org/build.php?arch=arm&pkg=gphoto2&ver=2.0final-3
> > 
> > kdegraphics seems to need a newer version of gphoto2 to be built on arm
> > before it will work.
> 
> The two packages are now built on arm.
> 
> > There may be other packages which need to be upgraded at the same time
> > as libusb. All of them need to be built on all architectures and free
> > of release critical bugs for this to happen.
> 
> As of now, all packages are clear of RC bugs, and marked as valid
> candidates. However, they still do not make it into Woody.
> 
> I believe we (maintainers depending on libusb) all have the same
> problem : we all need these packages in the release, for some reason
> or another.
> 
> Aj, could you please have a look at this issue ?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> JB.
> 
> 
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> 

-- 
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GnuPG FingerPrint: E0F6 FADF 2A5C F072 6AF8  F67A 8F45 2F1E D72C B41E

Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as gods.
Cats have never forgotten this. --Anonymous


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Re: David D.W. Downey - Old Key 42D8F306 Signed by New Key C5A76BF6

[christophe barbé]

On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 03:39:33AM +0100, Mark Brown wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 07:10:28PM -0700, David D. W. Downey wrote:
> 
> > Not much more I can do since the old secret key and public keyrings were
> > lost. It's going to have to suffice as I have taken every step possible
> > to ensure that the chain of events was totally and completely documented
> > both accurately and publicly to ensure a proper traceback can be made.
> 
> You haven't.  If you no longer have access to the old secret key then
> you need to find someone with a key in the Debian keyring and get them
> to sign the new key.  
> 
> Nothing you have done thus far (and nothing you can do without either
> the secret key for your old key or having someone validate the new key)
> demonstrates that the two keys are owned by the same person.  All you've
> shown is that the person owning your new key claims to be the owner of
> the old key.

Thanks I was wondering if I was the only one to see a problem here
(which IMHO is quite obvious).

Christophe

> 
> You've also not notified (or at least mentioned that you've notified)
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] which is the address you need to mail for
> things like this.
> 
> -- 
> "You grabbed my hand and we fell into it, like a daydream - or a fever."



-- 
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There's no sense in being precise when you don't even know what you're
talking about. -- John von Neumann


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Re: David D.W. Downey - Old Key 42D8F306 Signed by New Key C5A76BF6

[christophe barbé]

On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 11:47:33AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>   Have you done anything that I can't do as well right now? I
>  mean, I can download your old key, create a new one, and do all you
>  have outlined?
> 
>   manoj

Because I am not yet an official dd (I am waiting for the DAM Approval
as a lot of people), I don't have practical info about this particular
issue :

Would it be possible for the new 'David D.W. Downey' to hijack the
identity of the old 'David D.W. Downey' and then upload packages without
getting his new key signed by a dd ?

David : I understand that you are certainly the old and the new David
but we can not be sure and I am wondering if we have a security flaw
here. There is nothing personal, I hope your new key will be signed
soon. And this give me a good reason to check that my key is safe in
this regard.

Christophe

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Re: David D.W. Downey - Old Key 42D8F306 Signed by New Key C5A76BF6

[Gustavo Noronha Silva]

Em Thu, 11 Apr 2002 16:00:41 -0400, christophe barbé
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escreveu:

> Would it be possible for the new 'David D.W. Downey' to hijack the
> identity of the old 'David D.W. Downey' and then upload packages without
> getting his new key signed by a dd ?

no no, he needs to get his key signed by a dd again... I don't know
how the 'I don't have a dd near me' thing is handled in this case,
though

[]s!

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Debian:  * 


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Re: Imp 3.0/3.1 debian packages?

[Luis Bustamante]

On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 12:18:42PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> 
> Hello!
> 
> What's the status of newer imp packages for woody/sid?

Beta packages can be found at:
http://tabaluga.ipe.uni-stuttgart.de/~nils/download/

Cheers,

-- 
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Key fingerprint = 4779 E348 A7BD BEC1 62FB  729A 6A9F 2CE5 EC70 56CC


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Re: Please test this woody cd image

[Michael Alan Dorman]

Anthony Towns  writes:
> Seriously: everyone reading this mail, burn a copy of Raphael's test image
> on a CD and try booting it in any computers you have handy. If it doesn't
> work on a machine where a potato CD does boot, please mail the lists!

I have a Digital Celebris GL180 that does not appear to work with the
isoloader.

Having said that, I'd still rather the isoloader was used---this
machine is pretty old (nearly 6 years) and it's no big deal to make
the boot and root disks and just use the cdrom for packages.

For most of the machines I install, I expect the iso loader will be a
big help.

Mike.


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Re: Faster Release Cycle = More Up to date Packages...

[Johnny Ernst Nielsen]

Thank you Joey for being so obliging to a constructive proposal, and 
thank you for your polite way of replying to my proposal.

Do you think you could put your 6 year old attitude aside for a few 
moments and take this as a contructive proposal as other normal 
grownups would do?

If you think I have my facts wrong and/or miss information upon which 
I can base my proposal, I would like you to point me to the sources 
of the information I miss.
I have spent some time trying to find all the information I could, 
from web pages and mailing lists, but obviously there is information 
I did not find.

> Johnny Ernst Nielsen wrote:
> > Debian's current problem with old packages can be seen by the
> > fact that a number of vendors have reportedly dumped the current
> > Stable release in favor of the Testing distribution some time
> > ago. That can only mean that currentness of content has become
> > more important than bugs, security and stability.
> > It means that Debian is not in balance with currentness of
> > contents. Debian can not continue down that path without
> > compromising Debians own policy of supporting its users.
>
> So someone was more interesed in currency than in stability, and
> they swiched from the debian tree that emphases the later to the
> tree that emphasises the former. And what was the problem again?

I am not sure I can explain this in an understandable way, but I will 
try.
The problem seems to be that publicly Debian only supports Stable.
I do not disaggree with this. We can not support both Stable, Testing 
and Unstable.
Thus, vendors that want Debian support must use Stable.
However, the vendors' users are requesting more up to date software 
than what Stable provides.
So vendors are currently trapped between using a Debian distribution 
users find too old, or using a Debian distribution for which there is 
no support.
It all falls back on what the users want.

Have you forgotten point 4 in the Debian Social Contract?
"Our Priorities are Our Users and Free Software"

We are not giving priority to our users if they request up to date 
software and we do not provide that in the only distribution we 
publically support.

> > The package currentness issue is controlled by an other issue:
> > - How long the period of a freeze lasts before all RC bugs are
> > fixed.
>
> Wrong. You would do well to make sure you're fully up-to-date on
> how debian's release process is currently handled before posting
> half-baked critisism of it. A casual persusual of the last 10
> months or so of postings to debian-devel-announce might be a useful
> first step.

I am as up-to-date on the Debian release process as I have been able 
to make myself, and I do not bake.
Furthermore, I do not critisise Debians release procedure. I happen 
to like it, at least what I know about it so far.
I did not recognize any release process information in either the 
debian-policy mailing list, the debian-devel mailing list, or the 
debian-devel-announce mailing list. Neither did i find such 
information searching the Debian web site, nor reading the Debian 
Policy Manual.
The only information I found was in the Developer's Reference, 
Section 5.6.1.
It basically says that when the Release Manager thinks it is time to 
freeze, Testing freezes. Nice and simple. It gives the impression 
that Testing stops accepting packages from Unstable all together, 
perhaps unless a package from Unstable will fix a RC bug.
As you indicate a bit further below that does not seem to be the way 
the real world process works.

I have done all the searching I can.
Someone need to point me to the information you obviously know 
exists, but which I can't find.
Otherwise I will continue to make bad cakes, to your huge annoyance.

> > The main proposal is to introduce a fixed short Testing
> > development period into the development cycle like this:
> >
> > 1. Feed Unstable packages to Testing for a fixed short period of
> > time.
>
> So you think that dumping a large number of upstream updates of
> packages into testing in a very short period of time will result in
> a better integrated and less buggy debian. I see.

No. You either do not understand my point, or I phrase my point in 
the wrong way.

I did not propose a "dump". Perhaps the word "feed" was the wrong one 
to use.
I proposed that Testing accepts packages from Unstable according to 
our current rules, but only do so for 3 months, essentially forcing a 
freeze after 3 months.

About "dumping".
The "dumping" I see is the number of Unstable packages that acumulate 
in front of Testing's door while it is closed while Testing is in 
freeze.
When Testing is released and a new Testing is put behind the door, 
then when the door is opened for a new round of Testing development, 
all the acumulated Unstable packages will fall through the door.

Isn't that exactly what happens today?

The only difference I see between what happens today, and what would 
happen according to my proposal, is that

Re: Faster Release Cycle = More Up to date Packages...

[Rune B. Broberg]

On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 11:13:49PM +0200, Johnny Ernst Nielsen wrote:
> Thank you Joey for being so obliging to a constructive proposal, and 
> thank you for your polite way of replying to my proposal.
> 
> Do you think you could put your 6 year old attitude aside for a few 
> moments and take this as a contructive proposal as other normal 
> grownups would do?

This gets you right about nowhere, fighting flame with fire.

I think Torsten has a much, much better point here - get rid of the
current RC-bugs now, and find out how woody+1 is going to be done in the
weeks following the Woody-release - with the new DPL.

-- 
Rune B. Broberg


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Re: Faster Release Cycle = More Up to date Packages...

[Johnny Ernst Nielsen]

Good day Torsten,

thank you for your kind answer.

> > The main proposal is to introduce a fixed short Testing
> > development period into the development cycle like this:
> >
> > 1. Feed Unstable packages to Testing for a fixed short period of
> > time. 2. Freeze, bugfix, release.
> > Repeat.
>
> This was the whole idea of testing. Experience shows it does not
> work. Please try again - but please wait with discussing it until
> after May 1st so we can finally get the fucking release done.

I never found information proving that that scheme was atually 
implemented into the release procedures.

Do you know some place where it says something like:

"3 months after a release, Testing must freeze."

I am not a developer, and I am not suited for code development.
But I would like to spend untill 1St of May collecting additional 
information about the release procedures.

best regards
Johnny Ernst Nielsen :o)


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Re: Faster Release Cycle = More Up to date Packages...

[Johnny Ernst Nielsen]

Good day Matt,

thank you for your kind answer.

> > At the current pace 3.0 may be out right around May 1St 2002.
> > At that time it will have been more than 1 year and 6 months
> > since the previous point release, which by then contains packages
> > more than 1 year and 6 months old.
>
> Er, it will have been less than 1 month since the most recent point
> release.
>
>  The current ``stable'' distribution of Debian GNU/Linux is version
> 2.2r6, codenamed potato. It was released on April 3rd, 2002

I was not aware that a revision was the same as a point release.
Correct me if I am wrong, but do the revisions contain anything new 
except from security fixes and bugfixes?
Has any actual development, like GIMP 1.0 to GIMP 1.2, happened 
between revisions?

I am sorry if I confuse point releases with revisions.
What I meant with point releases was versions like 2.0, 2.1 and 2.2. 
Not revisions like 2.2r1, 2.2r2, etc.

Best regards
Johnny Ernst Nielsen :o)


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Re: Python module for debconf

[Colin Walters]

On Thu, 2002-04-11 at 13:20, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 03:30:08PM -0400, Alan Shutko wrote:
> 
> > Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > 
> > > The byte compilation should be done when the package is built, not
> > > at runtime, not at install time.
> > 
> > So you're saying that the maintainer should need to either create
> > separate packages for a given add-on for all current (and future)
> > Emacs flavors, or that they should include the byte-code for all
> > current (and future) Emacs flavors within the one package, even though
> > for most people that will be useless data?
> 
> And build-depend on all available versions of emacs...

That'd be silly.  Instead, we should just add them to build-essential.



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Re: Faster Release Cycle = More Up to date Packages...

[Ben Collins]

On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 11:44:36PM +0200, Rune B. Broberg wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 11:13:49PM +0200, Johnny Ernst Nielsen wrote:
> > Thank you Joey for being so obliging to a constructive proposal, and 
> > thank you for your polite way of replying to my proposal.
> > 
> > Do you think you could put your 6 year old attitude aside for a few 
> > moments and take this as a contructive proposal as other normal 
> > grownups would do?
> 
> This gets you right about nowhere, fighting flame with fire.
> 
> I think Torsten has a much, much better point here - get rid of the
> current RC-bugs now, and find out how woody+1 is going to be done in the
> weeks following the Woody-release - with the new DPL.

You just hit the nail on the head. Fixing the bugs is the only way to
get releases out faster. If the bugs aren't getting fixed properly, no
sort of mechanisms will help. Laziness[1] cannot be overcome by scripts
and policies.

As for the DPL comment, you should note that there is nothing the DPL
can do directly to affect the release cycle. Sure, he can delegate
duties, and try to pin-point efforts. However, if no one does the work,
what's the DPL going to do?


[1] That's not directed at any group of people. Yes, I can be accused of
being lazy at times too. Yes, we are all volunteers, which is the whole
point of the matter. Volunteers cannot be forced into doing anything,
and asking a small group to come up with some magic strategy that will
somehow overcome The Volunteer Mindset, is like trying to redesign a 22
caliber gun to fight off a 4-mile-wide asteroid headed towards earth.

-- 
Debian - http://www.debian.org/
Linux 1394 - http://linux1394.sourceforge.net/
Subversion - http://subversion.tigris.org/


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Re: Faster Release Cycle = More Up to date Packages...

[Nathan E Norman]

On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 11:13:49PM +0200, Johnny Ernst Nielsen wrote:
> Thank you Joey for being so obliging to a constructive proposal, and 
> thank you for your polite way of replying to my proposal.
> 
> Do you think you could put your 6 year old attitude aside for a few 
> moments and take this as a contructive proposal as other normal 
> grownups would do?

[ bla bla bla ]
 
> > Johnny Ernst Nielsen wrote:
> > > Debian's current problem with old packages can be seen by the
> > > fact that a number of vendors have reportedly dumped the current
> > > Stable release in favor of the Testing distribution some time
> > > ago. That can only mean that currentness of content has become
> > > more important than bugs, security and stability.
> > > It means that Debian is not in balance with currentness of
> > > contents. Debian can not continue down that path without
> > > compromising Debians own policy of supporting its users.
> >
> > So someone was more interesed in currency than in stability, and
> > they swiched from the debian tree that emphases the later to the
> > tree that emphasises the former. And what was the problem again?
^^^

Who wrote this part?  You've stripped the proper attributions.  I have
no idea who "Joey" is (there are at least 2 DDs who it could be).

It's impossible to carry on a discussion if you can't follow basic
email etiquette.  [ hint:  if you are complaining about a flame, using
a flame to do it is probably not the best solution ]

Finally, please do go read the archives.  The "we need to fix the
release mechanism and here's my s00per-d00per method to do it" thread
arrives here every few weeks.  It';s hard to believe anyone has
anything new to say at this point.

[ snip ]

Regards,

-- 
Nathan Norman - Micromuse Ltd.  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Gil-galad was an Elven-king.|  The Fellowship
Of him the harpers sadly sing:  |of
the last whose realm was fair and free  | the Ring
between the Mountains and the Sea.  |  J.R.R. Tolkien


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Bug#142456: ITP: enigma -- A game where you control a marble with the mouse

[Erich Schubert]

Package: wnpp
Version: N/A; reported 2002-04-12
Severity: wishlist

* Package name: enigma
  Version : 0.38a
  Upstream Author : Daniel Heck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://www.freesoftware.fsf.org/enigma/
* License : GPL
  Description : A game where you control a marble with the mouse
 Enigma is a puzzle game similar to Oxyd on the Atari ST or Rock'n'Roll
 on the Amiga and good old Marble Madness.
 In Enigma, your objective is to locate and uncover matching pairs of
 Oxyd stones. Simple as it sounds, this task is made more difficult by
 the fact that Oxyd stones tend to be hidden, inaccessible or protected
 by unexpected traps. Overcoming these obstacles often requires al lot
 of dexterity and wit (and can be quite addicting).

YES. This game is a clone of OXYD on the Atari. It just has six levels yet,
and mouse control is nice, but not as smooth as in Oxyd yet. VERY promising
though. I loved Oxyd...

-- System Information
Debian Release: 3.0
Architecture: i386
Kernel: Linux marvin.xmldesign.de 2.4.19-pre6acpi0404 #1 Mon Apr 8 00:26:54 
CEST 2002 i686
Locale: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: Faster Release Cycle = More Up to date Packages...

[Torsten Landschoff]

On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 11:46:55PM +0200, Johnny Ernst Nielsen wrote:
 
> I am not a developer, and I am not suited for code development.
> But I would like to spend untill 1St of May collecting additional 
> information about the release procedures.

Currently that is black magic, mostly the release manager knows, what's
going on ;) I think you are right, we have to rethink the release process
again. But please let's defer that until after this release... 

Discussing that woody's release is going nowhere will get woody's release
nowhere ;-)

cu
Torsten


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Description: PGP signature

mail bypass spamassassin

[christophe barbé]

I got a mail with sample.exe (2.4MB) attachment. This mail has not been
scanned by spamassassin. I don't understand why. I use a procmail rule
as below :

#  SPAMASSASSIN 
:0fw
| spamc -f

:0e
{
   EXITCODE=$?
}

:0:  
* ^X-Spam-Flag: YES
junk

#  End of SPAMASSASSIN section 

And the mail header does not contain the hit normally added by
spamassassin. All other mails have this hit like below :

X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests= version=2.11

Below is the header section of the mail :

From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Apr 11 18:40:47 2002
Return-path: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   
Envelope-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Delivery-date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 18:40:47 -0400
Received: from turing ([127.0.0.1] helo=localhost)
by turing with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
id 16vnEm-0001ZG-00
for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 18:40:16 -0400
Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Received: from imap.free.fr
by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.11)
for [EMAIL PROTECTED] (single-drop); Thu, 11 Apr 2002 18:40:16 -0400 
(EDT)
Received: (qmail 18191 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2002 22:15:43 -
Received: from unknown (HELO MONTE-XDXLXM7E7) (200.50.16.105)
  by mrelay2-2.free.fr with SMTP; 11 Apr 2002 22:15:43 -
From: <>
Subject:óF^BØsamplesamplebhgrh540samplebhgrh540samplebhgrh540desktopdesktopbhgrh540bhgrh54+0samplesampledesktopbhgrh540sampledesktopdesktopsampledesktopdesktopbhgrh540bhgrh540deskt+opbhgrh540desktopsamplebhgrh540samplesampledesktopdesktopdesktopsamplebhgrh540desktmx.fre+e.fr.bhgrh540
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/related;
type="multipart/alternative";
boundary="_ABC123456j7890DEF_"
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Unsent: 1
Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Bcc:
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 18:40:16 -0400

I don't even know how a mail like this can be accepted by a MTA.

Any Idea ?

Christophe

-- 
Christophe Barbé <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
GnuPG FingerPrint: E0F6 FADF 2A5C F072 6AF8  F67A 8F45 2F1E D72C B41E

In a cat's eye, all things belong to cats.
--English proverb


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Re: mail bypass spamassassin

[Colin Watson]

On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 06:52:10PM -0400, christophe barbé wrote:
> I got a mail with sample.exe (2.4MB) attachment. This mail has not been
> scanned by spamassassin. I don't understand why. I use a procmail rule
> as below :
> 
> #  SPAMASSASSIN 
> :0fw
> | spamc -f

Could it be that spamd was overloaded or spamc otherwise couldn't talk
to it, and so spamc just passed the message through unscanned?

   -f  Cause spamc to safe-failover if it can't connect to
   spamd -- what this means is that in case spamc fails
   to connect to spamd, it will not return with an exit­
   code set, it will instead dump the original message to
   stdout, allowing the message to be delivered, albeit
   unscanned for spam.  Without this flag, connection
   failures to spamd will cause message delivery fail­
   ures.  Even with this flag set however, if spamc con­
   nects successfully, and then encounters an error at a
   later stage of communication, it will still return an
   exitcode.  This now defaults to on, and can't be
   turned off.  This flag is accepted though for back­
   wards-compatibility.

-- 
Colin Watson  [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: rsync and debian -- summary of issues

[Adam Heath]

On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, Martin Pool wrote:

> There seems to be a thread about rsync and Debian packages every
> couple of months.  I've written up a document which tries to cover all
> of the questions and debates.  It's pretty informal, but hopefully
> will be useful.
>
>   http://rsync.samba.org/rsync-and-debian/
>
> I'd appreciate comments.

Seems good.

It'd be nice if there were links to details about how the reverse rsync
algorythm in used, tho.

Also, I've had this idea, to use rdiff to generate the checksums, on the
server.  If rdiff supported a reverse rsync algo(it currently doesn't), then
it would make integration with other tools simplistic(thing a wrapper around
wget and rdiff).



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Re: Python module for debconf

[Matt Zimmerman]

On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 05:52:54PM -0400, Colin Walters wrote:

> On Thu, 2002-04-11 at 13:20, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> > And build-depend on all available versions of emacs...
> 
> That'd be silly.  Instead, we should just add them to build-essential.

Adding them to build-essential would take a policy amendment...but now that
we've reached a consensus on debian-devel, they can be Essential: yes
instead.

-- 
 - mdz


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Re: Python module for debconf

[Alan Shutko]

Matt Zimmerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Adding them to build-essential would take a policy amendment...but now that
> we've reached a consensus on debian-devel, they can be Essential: yes
> instead.

That's as it should be, anyway.  Now to move at least emacs from /usr
to / so that it can replace init.

-- 
Alan Shutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - In a variety of flavors!
Wedding rings are the world's smallest handcuffs.


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Re: David D.W. Downey - Old Key 42D8F306 Signed by New Key C5A76BF6

[Manoj Srivastava]

>>"christophe" == christophe barbé <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

 christophe> Would it be possible for the new 'David D.W. Downey' to
 christophe> hijack the identity of the old 'David D.W. Downey' and
 christophe> then upload packages without getting his new key signed
 christophe> by a dd ?

No, and you have thus gotten the solution.  The normal
 authentication measures have to be taken.

manoj
-- 
 Among the lucky, you are the chosen one.
Manoj Srivastava   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05  CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C


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Bug#142458: ITP: med-imaging -- Debian Med imaging packages

[Andreas Tille]

Package: wnpp
Version: N/A; reported 2002-04-11
Severity: wishlist

* Package name: med-imaging
  Version : 0.1
  Upstream Author : Andreas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : local file
* License : GPL
  Description : Debian Med imaging packages

Part of Debian-Med

 This meta package will install Debian packages which migt be useful in medical
 image processing.
 
 Currently it includes: rumbaview, paul


-- System Information
Debian Release: 3.0
Architecture: i386
Kernel: Linux energija 2.4.17 #1 Sam Jan 5 21:22:15 CET 2002 i686
Locale: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Bug#142459: ITP: med-imaging-dev -- Debian Med packages for medical image development

[Andreas Tille]

Package: wnpp
Version: N/A; reported 2002-04-11
Severity: wishlist

* Package name: med-imaging-dev
  Version : 0.1
  Upstream Author : Andreas Tille <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : local file
* License : GPL
  Description : Debian Med packages for medical image development

This is a part of Debian Med

 This meta package will install Debian packages which might be useful
 for developing applications for medical image processing.
 
 Currently it includes: librumba-dev, libgtkimreg-dev


-- System Information
Debian Release: 3.0
Architecture: i386
Kernel: Linux energija 2.4.17 #1 Sam Jan 5 21:22:15 CET 2002 i686
Locale: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: Faster Release Cycle = More Up to date Packages...

[Joey Hess]

Johnny Ernst Nielsen wrote:
> Do you think you could put your 6 year old attitude aside for a few 
> moments and take this as a contructive proposal as other normal 
> grownups would do?

Having discussed all this before in my 6 year old tenure with Debian,
no, I really don't have time to rehash it all again with someone who has
not done basic research and who descends to implausable personal attacks
on my birthday.

Making up claims out of whole cloth as you do here is a good way to find
yourself ignored, by me anyway --

> Today, when the new Testing opens for contributions from Unstable 
> (after 3.0 is released) there will be about 6 months worth of 
> packages waiting in Unstable that will "dump" into Testing from 
> Unstable right away.

http://ftp-master.debian.org/testing/update_excuses.html

Or perhaps there is some large set of packages in that list that I'm
missing that will magically fall through into testing on May second.

-- 
see shy jo


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(sin asunto)

[GarciaTorresJ]

quiero el read player ¿como le hago?


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Re: Bug#141847: O: dupload -- Utility to upload Debian packages.

[Daniel Burrows]

On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 09:29:04AM +, Wilmer van der Gaast <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]> was heard to say:
> Julian [EMAIL PROTECTED]@Tue, 9 Apr 2002 09:40:47 +0100:
> >  I am happy to take it.  But a question: with the more actively
> >  maintained dput now being quite mature, do we still need both dupload
> >  and dput?
> >  
> *Ugh* Why are those nifty Perl scripts going to be replaced by Python
> stuff?
> 
> (Don't tell me someone's working on a Python debhelper rewrite...)

(define-rule 'binary
 ('binary-indep 'binary-arch))

(define-rule 'binary-arch
 ()
 (deb:test-dir)
 (deb:install-docs)
 (deb:install-examples "src/test1.cc" "src/test2.cc")
 (deb:install-menu)
 (deb:install-manpages)
 (deb:install-changelogs "ChangeLog")
 (deb:link)
 (deb:strip)
 (deb:compress)
 (deb:fixperms)
 (deb:installdeb)
 (deb:shlibdeps)
 (deb:gencontrol)
 (deb:md5sums)
 (deb:builddeb))

  (just kidding >=) )

  Daniel

-- 
/ Daniel Burrows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ---\
|  A conclusion is the place  |
|  where you got tired of thinking.   |
\--- Listener-supported public radio -- NPR -- http://www.npr.org /


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Re: mail bypass spamassassin

[Duncan Findlay]

On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 06:52:10PM -0400, christophe barbé wrote:
> I got a mail with sample.exe (2.4MB) attachment. This mail has not been
> scanned by spamassassin. I don't understand why. I use a procmail rule
> as below :

spamassassin, by default, does not check messages larger than 250k. Messages
larger than 250k take way too long to scan because of the regexps used, and
large messages are rarely spam.

-- 
Duncan Findlay


pgpP3JMw8VVP7.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Please test this woody cd image

[Chris Lawrence]

On Apr 11, Michael Alan Dorman wrote:
> Anthony Towns  writes:
> > Seriously: everyone reading this mail, burn a copy of Raphael's test image
> > on a CD and try booting it in any computers you have handy. If it doesn't
> > work on a machine where a potato CD does boot, please mail the lists!
> 
> I have a Digital Celebris GL180 that does not appear to work with the
> isoloader.
> 
> Having said that, I'd still rather the isoloader was used---this
> machine is pretty old (nearly 6 years) and it's no big deal to make
> the boot and root disks and just use the cdrom for packages.
> 
> For most of the machines I install, I expect the iso loader will be a
> big help.

Mike:

Is this a regression?  (i.e. does the machine boot standard El Torito
cd images, like potato CD #1?)


Chris
-- 
Chris Lawrence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - http://www.lordsutch.com/chris/


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Re: Bug#141847: O: dupload -- Utility to upload Debian packages.

[Brian May]

On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 09:40:47AM +0100, Julian Gilbey wrote:
> I am happy to take it.  But a question: with the more actively
> maintained dput now being quite mature, do we still need both dupload
> and dput?

Dumb question, but what dput, and why is one better then the other?
(please leave language flame wars out of discussion - we all know that
 is the best language).

Thanks.
-- 
Brian May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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