intent to package snap

[Dr. Guenter Bechly]

Hi,
I intend to package snap 0.02a, a Perl-based Napster client for console.
The package is actually already made, but I have just applied to become 
a Debian maintainer, thus it will probably still be quite some time till 
I can upload the package (unless I will find a sponsor).
Cheers, Guenter
-- 
Linux: Who needs GATES in a world without fences?

Re: Intent To Split: netbase

[Peter Makholm]

Andreas Fuchs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Good enough for you? Good enough for anyone? ajt? (-:

Bad idea.

Then you also want every X11-app to ask if it should install itself in
/usr/X386/bin or somewhere else and every game-like app if it should
instaal it self in /usr/bin or /usr/games?


Either agree on placing the different programs one place og agree to
disagree. I have had /sbin and /usr/sbin in my PATH for years neither
my sysadm or me have any problems with that.

-- 
Peter

Re: Intent To Split: netbase

[John Goerzen]

Herbert Xu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Please also note that other daemons conflict with each other well, e.g.,
> inn & cnews, sendmail & postfix.

I am aware of that, and it's a shame, there is no real reason that
they cannot coexist.

please help on apt-move weirdness

[zw]

apt-move 4.1.9

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:1 ~ $ sudo apt-move localupdate
/usr/bin/apt-move: line 122: syntax error near unexpected token ('
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:1 ~ $ 

the script contains some `(' and `)' where it should be `{' and `}' (??)
but if this is the case, then how came that `()' became `{}' ??

i encounter this problem after only visible faults as some severe
fsck trouble, but is it possible? otherwise, i cannot remember
any reason that could cause apt-move suddenly complains this. :(

5 inofficial packages for download

[Dr. Guenter Bechly]

Hi,
I just uploaded my first five Debian packages. They include the console
programs journal, mrename, ncps, saydate, and snap.
The URL is http://www.bechly.de/debian/.
I also included a Packages file generated with dpkg-scanpackages, thus the
site should be apt-getable.
Since I am no official maintainer yet, I cannot upload the packages to
unstable. Anyway, I would appreciate any testing of my newbie packages
and of course would welcome any offer of sponsorship.
Cheers,
Guenter
-- 
Linux: Who needs GATES in a world without fences?


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Re: Intent To Split: netbase

[Decklin Foster]

Andreas Fuchs writes:

> Hm. So why not make it the admin's choice? How about'
> 
> 
> Setting up netbase (version) ...
> 
> In the standard configuration, some binaries of netbase are installed
> in /usr/sbin, which is, by default, not included in the user's search
> paths. Do you want to create a symbolic link for each program below
> from /usr/bin to /usr/sbin, thus putting them in a regular user's
> search path:

Oh, this is just absurd. I see no reason why we should subject users
to filesystem-layout politics. Move it or don't move it.

-- 
There is no TRUTH. There is no REALITY. There is no CONSISTENCY. There
are no ABSOLUTE STATEMENTS. I'm very probably wrong. -- BSD fortune(6)

Re: Bochs / VGA-Bios license question / freebios anyone?

[Andrew Lenharth]

I originally ITPed bochs.  Unfortunately it would have to go in non-free.
the VGA-BIOS included is licensed only for use and distribution with
bochs.  It therefor cannot be seperated into a seperate package from
bochs (and if bochs is packaged, it should ge removed from the source
archive.

Andrew Lenharth

Remember, never ask a geek "why";
   just nod your head and back away slowly... 

--

Given infinite time, 100 monkeys could type out the complete works of
Shakespeare.
Win 98 source code? Eight monkeys, five minutes.

--

On 14 Aug 2000, Peter Makholm wrote:

> Adrian Bunk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > That sounds as if non-free is the right place. Or the best is you make two
> > packages: A vga-bios package in non-free and a bochs package in contrib.
> 
> But why would this be better that a complete package in contrib. Is
> bochs useable without the vga-bios or is the vga-bios useable for
> other things than bochs?
> 
> I was about to package bochs a couple of months ago but this was one
> of the things stopping me.
> 
> 
> 
> And then it neither booted my QNX, Eros or Plan9 boot disks.
> 
> -- 
> Peter
> 
> 
> -- 
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 

X with (g|w|x)dm capable of selecting host at login

[esoR ocsirF]

Hi,
A while back there was mention of developing a display manageer that
could select a host to login to. What ever became of this? 

I am setting up a small group of machines for our physics/engineering
depts. and would like to have this available. Is this still just
ideaware?

My apologies if this is the wrong place to post this to.

-- 
Frisco Rose "By any other name, I would smell the same"
E.O.U. Stud. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Physics  Mathematics  Computer Science

If all the ipv6 addresses were distributed evenly across the planets
surface, there would be roughly 423,354,243,695,259,002,656 per square inch.
And, no, I don't know what this has to do with anything.
 (Some witty Debian Developer)

Re: Intent To Split: netbase

[Manoj Srivastava]

Hi,

>>"John" == John Goerzen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

 John> Herbert Xu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
 >> Please also note that other daemons conflict with each other well, e.g.,
 >> inn & cnews, sendmail & postfix.

 John> I am aware of that, and it's a shame, there is no real reason that
 John> they cannot coexist.

No real reason? Only one package can listen in on port 25, and
 only one package may be linked to /usr/lib/sendmail. Now the latter
 may be handled by using diversions/alternatives, but I fail to see
 how the former can be handled. (similar arguments for NNTP servers)

Seems like there are *real* reasons. There may be partial work
 arounds, but the conflict does seem reasonable.

manoj
-- 
 It pays in England to be a revolutionary and a bible-smacker most of
 one's life and then come round. Lord Alfred Douglas
Manoj Srivastava   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05  CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C

Re: please help on apt-move weirdness

[Peter S Galbraith]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:1 ~ $ sudo apt-move localupdate
> /usr/bin/apt-move: line 122: syntax error near unexpected token ('

See the following:

http://cgi.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=67519
http://cgi.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=67522
http://cgi.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=67563
http://cgi.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=6

Re: Intent To Split: netbase

[Brendan Cully]

On Monday, 14 August 2000 at 14:20, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> >>"John" == John Goerzen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
>  John> Herbert Xu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>  >> Please also note that other daemons conflict with each other well, e.g.,
>  >> inn & cnews, sendmail & postfix.
> 
>  John> I am aware of that, and it's a shame, there is no real reason that
>  John> they cannot coexist.
> 
>   No real reason? Only one package can listen in on port 25, and
>  only one package may be linked to /usr/lib/sendmail. Now the latter
>  may be handled by using diversions/alternatives, but I fail to see
>  how the former can be handled. (similar arguments for NNTP servers)
> 
>   Seems like there are *real* reasons. There may be partial work
>  arounds, but the conflict does seem reasonable.

I agree with you in general. But it would be nice if packages that
conflicted on, say, portnumber, could let you choose another port to
run them on, and maybe give the official port to one particular
program (like alternatives for portnumbers). I realise quite a lot of
programs have hardcoded portnumbers in the upstream source, and that
for most purposes it wouldn't often be super useful, but it does have
certain advantages. For instance, on my machine I have uw-imap,
cyrus-imap and courier-imap all installed on different ports so I can
test out my IMAP client code against the three of them. Since they all
conflict I have to install and maintain at least two of them by
hand...

well, that's the motivation behind my stupid wishlist :)

-- 
Don't make Godzilla mad!


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5 inofficial packages for download

[Dr. Guenter Bechly]

Hi,
I just uploaded my first five Debian packages. They include the console
programs journal, mrename, ncps, saydate, and snap.
The download URL is http://members.tripod.de/GBechly/debian/.
I also included a Packages file generated with dpkg-scanpackages, thus the
site should be apt-getable with
deb http://members.tripod.de/GBechly debian/
Since I am no official maintainer yet, I cannot upload the packages to
unstable. Anyway, I would appreciate any testing of my newbie packages
and of course would welcome any offer of sponsorship.
Cheers,
Guenter
-- 
Linux: Who needs GATES in a world without fences?


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Re: Intent To Split: netbase

[John Goerzen]

Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

>  John> Herbert Xu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>  >> Please also note that other daemons conflict with each other well, e.g.,
>  >> inn & cnews, sendmail & postfix.
> 
>  John> I am aware of that, and it's a shame, there is no real reason that
>  John> they cannot coexist.
> 
>   No real reason? Only one package can listen in on port 25, and

There is no real reason that all must listen on port 25.

>  only one package may be linked to /usr/lib/sendmail. Now the latter

Obviously.  That doesn't mean that there still can't be multiple
servers on a machine.

>  may be handled by using diversions/alternatives, but I fail to see
>  how the former can be handled. (similar arguments for NNTP servers)
> 
>   Seems like there are *real* reasons. There may be partial work
>  arounds, but the conflict does seem reasonable.

These aren't real reasons at all.  There is nothing to prevent a mail
server from working on a different port.

> 
>   manoj
> -- 
>  It pays in England to be a revolutionary and a bible-smacker most of
>  one's life and then come round. Lord Alfred Douglas
> Manoj Srivastava   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
> 1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05  CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E
> 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
> 
> 
> -- 
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 

-- 
John Goerzen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   www.complete.org
Sr. Software Developer, Progeny Linux Systems, Inc.www.progenylinux.com
#include  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: X with (g|w|x)dm capable of selecting host at login

[John Goerzen]

xdm already has this feature, I believe.

-- John

esoR ocsirF <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Hi,
> A while back there was mention of developing a display manageer that
> could select a host to login to. What ever became of this? 
> 
> I am setting up a small group of machines for our physics/engineering
> depts. and would like to have this available. Is this still just
> ideaware?
> 
> My apologies if this is the wrong place to post this to.
> 
> -- 
> Frisco Rose "By any other name, I would smell the same"
> E.O.U. Stud. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Physics  MathematicsComputer Science
> 
> If all the ipv6 addresses were distributed evenly across the planets
> surface, there would be roughly 423,354,243,695,259,002,656 per square inch.
> And, no, I don't know what this has to do with anything.
>(Some witty Debian Developer)
> 
> 
> -- 
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 

-- 
John Goerzen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   www.complete.org
Sr. Software Developer, Progeny Linux Systems, Inc.www.progenylinux.com
#include  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

ITP: gcc, binutils, libc, gdb for Amtel AVR microcontrollers

[Hakan Ardo]

Hi,
the entire gnu develoopnet environment is ported to the avr arcitecture and
runs nicely under debian. Currently all that excists as debian packages are
a few asmeblers and programmers. I intend to create the following debain
packages:

  avr-binutils
  avr-gcc
  avr-libc
  avr-monitor (code monitor used by gdb)
  avr-gdb
  avr-devenviron (contains dependencies on all the packagses you need to get
  a full featured development evironment for the avr as well
  as some simple examples and a readme to get started)

If anyone knows of a avr simulator freely avalible I'd be most interested.
Preferable one that works with gdb...

Please CC replays to me.

-- 
Hakan Ardo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, http://master.debian.org/~hakan


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Re: ITP: gcc, binutils, libc, gdb for Amtel AVR microcontrollers

[Ben Collins]

On Mon, Aug 14, 2000 at 11:04:15PM +0200, Hakan Ardo wrote:
> Hi,
> the entire gnu develoopnet environment is ported to the avr arcitecture and
> runs nicely under debian. Currently all that excists as debian packages are
> a few asmeblers and programmers. I intend to create the following debain
> packages:
> 
>   avr-binutils
>   avr-gcc
>   avr-libc
>   avr-monitor (code monitor used by gdb)
>   avr-gdb
>   avr-devenviron (contains dependencies on all the packagses you need to get
>   a full featured development evironment for the avr as well
>   as some simple examples and a readme to get started)

Is this based off the actual upstream source, or is it a fork? If the
former, then I suggest coordinating with the relevant maintainers rather
than duplicating source. What versions of these tools are being used?

-- 
 ---===-=-==-=---==-=--
/  Ben Collins  --  ...on that fantastic voyage...  --  Debian GNU/Linux   \
`  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  --  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  --  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  '
 `---=--===-=-=-=-===-==---=--=---'

Re: Bochs / VGA-Bios license question / freebios anyone?

[Ulrich Eckhardt]

On Sun, 13 Aug 2000, Roland Bauerschmidt wrote:
> As Goswin mentioned earlier it's also possible to use bochs with some
> other bios 
[snip]

I´m not sure if this even touches this discussion but what about using the bios
that is already present on most computers? 
Wouldn´t that reduce the dependencies to nil?

cheerio
Uli

Re: Intent To Split: netbase

[Kurt D. Starsinic]

On Thu, Aug 10, 2000 at 03:22:43PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 10, 2000 at 12:47:34AM -0400, Decklin Foster wrote:
> > Anthony Towns writes:
> > > Well, if you wanted half the people running unstable to just
> > > blithely upgrade and have all their firewalling disappear, you could
> > > remove the dependencies, I guess.
> > The argument for getting rid of all the stuff still lying around in
> > netbase is that once the package really is a dummy ``this-only-exists-
> > so-that-people-can-upgrade-easily'' package, then it can be removed,
> > getting rid of the dependency on what the user doesn't want to
> > install. Right now we can't do that, which I what I think Alex's point
> > was.
> 
> No. The point of splitting netbase isn't in particular to do away with the
> package. Just because that's what happened to netstd and xbase doesn't
> necessarily mean it'll happen again. I've no plans to make netbase not
> exist anymore.

I do hope that you'll consider changing some of the Depends: to
Suggests:.  For example, I don't generally want portmap to be installed
on servers I deploy.

Peace,
* Kurt Starsinic ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) -- Senior Network Engineer *
|`The future masters of technology will have to be lighthearted and |
| intelligent.  The machine easily masters the grim and the dumb.'  |
|-- Marshall McLuhan|

Re: ITP: gcc, binutils, libc, gdb for Amtel AVR microcontrollers

[Hakan Ardo]

On Mon, Aug 14, 2000 at 05:07:29PM -0400, Ben Collins wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 14, 2000 at 11:04:15PM +0200, Hakan Ardo wrote:
> > Hi,
> > the entire gnu develoopnet environment is ported to the avr arcitecture and
> > runs nicely under debian. Currently all that excists as debian packages are
> > a few asmeblers and programmers. I intend to create the following debain
> > packages:
> > 
> >   avr-binutils
> >   avr-gcc
> >   avr-libc
> >   avr-monitor (code monitor used by gdb)
> >   avr-gdb
> >   avr-devenviron (contains dependencies on all the packagses you need to get
> >   a full featured development evironment for the avr as well
> >   as some simple examples and a readme to get started)
> 
> Is this based off the actual upstream source, or is it a fork? If the
> former, then I suggest coordinating with the relevant maintainers rather
> than duplicating source. What versions of these tools are being used?

binutils is part of the actual upstream source version 2.10 gcc is
distributed as a patch to version 2.95.2 and gdb as a patch to 4.18, the
rest is not related to actual gnu sources. 

I'll contact the binutils maintainer to see if we can coordinate the
package, as for the others it seems hard to build from the same code tree as
it has to be patched...

-- 
Hakan Ardo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, http://master.debian.org/~hakan


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Re: X with (g|w|x)dm capable of selecting host at login

[Philippe Troin]

John Goerzen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> xdm already has this feature, I believe.
> 
> -- John
> 
> esoR ocsirF <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > Hi,
> > A while back there was mention of developing a display manageer that
> > could select a host to login to. What ever became of this? 
> > 
> > I am setting up a small group of machines for our physics/engineering
> > depts. and would like to have this available. Is this still just
> > ideaware?
> > 
> > My apologies if this is the wrong place to post this to.
> > 
> > -- 
> > Frisco Rose "By any other name, I would smell the same"
> > E.O.U. Stud. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Physics  Mathematics  Computer Science
> > 
> > If all the ipv6 addresses were distributed evenly across the planets
> > surface, there would be roughly 423,354,243,695,259,002,656 per square inch.
> > And, no, I don't know what this has to do with anything.
> >  (Some witty Debian Developer)

wdm too, with a little bit of hacking...

Install also xdm, or get the "chooser" executable from xdm.

In /etc/X11/wdm/wdm-config, add:

  ! Use our chooser
  DisplayManager*chooser:   

Start X with "X -indirect localhost" and voila.

Phil.

Re: Bug#69090: strange su / which / apt behaviour

[Bernd Eckenfels]

On Mon, Aug 14, 2000 at 12:47:29AM -0400, David Grill Watson wrote:
> It wasn't like that before - and should something be done about that? It 
> seems pretty broken to me.

you can just link root's  xauthority file to yours. or use XAUTHORITY=

Greetings
Bernd

Re: ITP: gcc, binutils, libc, gdb for Amtel AVR microcontrollers

[Ben Collins]

> 
> binutils is part of the actual upstream source version 2.10 gcc is
> distributed as a patch to version 2.95.2 and gdb as a patch to 4.18, the
> rest is not related to actual gnu sources. 
> 

Excellent. Then most likely all you need to do is get the target added to
the binutils-multiarch package, and dep on that for the other tools.

> I'll contact the binutils maintainer to see if we can coordinate the
> package, as for the others it seems hard to build from the same code tree as
> it has to be patched...

I'd email the respective maintainers. They may have some ideas about
that.

I assume the libc is not part of glibc at all, so that most likely needs
to be its own package.

-- 
 ---===-=-==-=---==-=--
/  Ben Collins  --  ...on that fantastic voyage...  --  Debian GNU/Linux   \
`  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  --  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  --  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  '
 `---=--===-=-=-=-===-==---=--=---'

Seems potato's now 'stable'! 2.2's out, then?

[Ben Gertzfield]

I guess nobody's actually announced it on the list, but the FTP sites
seem to have moved the link for stable to potato! 2.2 must, logically,
be released!

Shocking. :) Congrats to everyone! (How come it wasn't announced
on the list?)

Ben

-- 
Brought to you by the letters E and J and the number 6.
"It makes my nipples hard!"
Debian GNU/Linux maintainer of Gimp and GTK+ -- http://www.debian.org/

Re: Intent To Split: netbase

[Clint Adams]

>   No real reason? Only one package can listen in on port 25, and

Only one package can listen on port 25 of one IP.  It is possible to
have multiple packages listening on different ports or different IPs.

Re: ITP: gcc, binutils, libc, gdb for Amtel AVR microcontrollers

[Hakan Ardo]

On Mon, Aug 14, 2000 at 05:44:29PM -0400, Ben Collins wrote:
> > 
> > binutils is part of the actual upstream source version 2.10 gcc is
> > distributed as a patch to version 2.95.2 and gdb as a patch to 4.18, the
> > rest is not related to actual gnu sources. 
> > 
> 
> Excellent. Then most likely all you need to do is get the target added to
> the binutils-multiarch package, and dep on that for the other tools.

Maybe, I need the gnu asembler from the binutils package as well and the
binutils-mulitarch pkg claims not to contain it, but I'll wait and see what
the binutil maintainer has to say...

> 
> > I'll contact the binutils maintainer to see if we can coordinate the
> > package, as for the others it seems hard to build from the same code tree as
> > it has to be patched...
> 
> I'd email the respective maintainers. They may have some ideas about
> that.

OK, I'll do that but it seems like the avr to is about to get incoperated 
with the gnu distributions in future releases, at least of gcc. One solution
might be to do separate pkgs for now instead of doing some advanced
combination of oure own wait till the combination has been done upstream.

> 
> I assume the libc is not part of glibc at all, so that most likely needs
> to be its own package.

Correct, it's a separate implementaton of the most basic libc functions.

-- 
Hakan Ardo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, http://master.debian.org/~hakan


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RE: gcc, binutils, libc, gdb for Amtel AVR microcontrollers

[Frank Smith]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
> Hakan Ardo
> Sent: None
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; debian-devel@lists.debian.org
> Subject: ITP: gcc, binutils, libc, gdb for Amtel AVR microcontrollers
> 
> 
> Hi,
> the entire gnu develoopnet environment is ported to the avr 
> arcitecture and
> runs nicely under debian. Currently all that excists as debian 
> packages are
> a few asmeblers and programmers. I intend to create the following debain
> packages:
> 
>   avr-binutils
>   avr-gcc
>   avr-libc
>   avr-monitor (code monitor used by gdb)
>   avr-gdb
>   avr-devenviron (contains dependencies on all the packagses you 
> need to get
>   a full featured development evironment for the 
> avr as well
>   as some simple examples and a readme to get started)

As part of the Embedded Debian Project (see http://www.emdebian.org) I've 
made modifications to the binutils and gcc source packages to support the 
building of cross compilation environments.

Perhaps there is some overlap here?  Check out the web site and let me
know how you feel.  I'm interested in seeing the Embedded Debian project
support more targets.


-Frank.

Re: gcc, binutils, libc, gdb for Amtel AVR microcontrollers

[Hakan Ardo]

On Mon, Aug 14, 2000 at 07:42:05PM -0300, Frank Smith wrote:
> 
> As part of the Embedded Debian Project (see http://www.emdebian.org) I've 
> made modifications to the binutils and gcc source packages to support the 
> building of cross compilation environments.
> 
> Perhaps there is some overlap here?  Check out the web site and let me
> know how you feel.  I'm interested in seeing the Embedded Debian project
> support more targets.

I'll have a look. Have you talk to the gcc and binutils maintianers about
this? I've mailed them now (se the other threads in this mail).

-- 
Hakan Ardo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, http://master.debian.org/~hakan


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Re: gcc, binutils, libc, gdb for Amtel AVR microcontrollers

[Hakan Ardo]

On Mon, Aug 14, 2000 at 07:42:05PM -0300, Frank Smith wrote:

> > Hi,
> > the entire gnu develoopnet environment is ported to the avr 
> > arcitecture and
> > runs nicely under debian. Currently all that excists as debian 
> > packages are
> > a few asmeblers and programmers. I intend to create the following debain
> > packages:
> > 
> >   avr-binutils
> >   avr-gcc
> >   avr-libc
> >   avr-monitor (code monitor used by gdb)
> >   avr-gdb
> >   avr-devenviron (contains dependencies on all the packagses you 
> > need to get
> >   a full featured development evironment for the 
> > avr as well
> >   as some simple examples and a readme to get started)
> 
> As part of the Embedded Debian Project (see http://www.emdebian.org) I've 
> made modifications to the binutils and gcc source packages to support the 
> building of cross compilation environments.
> 
> Perhaps there is some overlap here?  Check out the web site and let me
> know how you feel.  I'm interested in seeing the Embedded Debian project
> support more targets.

It seems like your version of the binutils and gcc packages with the
addition of an avr target is exaktly what I want (I don't suppose that would
be very hard, would it?). Why are those not made part of debian as the 
official debian binutils and gcc packages and we could have all targets 
of interest built from the same source?

After a closer look at the gcc patch it seems that what it does is simply to
add a avr target, which means that it should be possible to compile for the
other targets even after it is applied. This has to be verified ofcourse.
The patch is availible at:

  http://medo.fov.uni-mb.si/mapp/uTools/avr-gcc/gcc-core-2.95.2-avr-patch-1.1.gz

-- 
Hakan Ardo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, http://master.debian.org/~hakan


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Re: Seems potato's now 'stable'! 2.2's out, then?

[Mircea Luca]

Ben Gertzfield wrote:
> 
> I guess nobody's actually announced it on the list, but the FTP sites
> seem to have moved the link for stable to potato! 2.2 must, logically,
> be released!
> 
> Shocking. :) Congrats to everyone! (How come it wasn't announced
> on the list?)
> 
> Ben
> 

 I just received the mail from debian-announce.It is official.


-- 
The best way to escape from a problem is to solve it. 
 Alan Saporta 
My waste of cyberspace=
http://deepblue.dyndns.org :-)

Re: X with wdm capable of selecting host at login

[esoR ocsirF]

On Mon, Aug 14, 2000 at 02:23:50PM -0700, Philippe Troin wrote:
> 
> In /etc/X11/wdm/wdm-config, add:
> 
>   ! Use our chooser
>   DisplayManager*chooser: 
> 
> Start X with "X -indirect localhost" and voila.

Ok, this sounds like like what I am looking for but, I seem to be brain
dead. If I modify the wdm-config as noted and resart wdm via

# /etc/init.d/wdm resart

I just get the normal login. Which I assume is the correct behavior for
wdm since I haven't started X as noted (and yes the chooser is installed). 
So I

# /etc/init.d/wdm stop
# X -indirect localhost

and I get an X background with a mouse cursor but no wdm panel. I, once
again, assume that this is the correct behavior. So I am now thinking,
do I pass these options to X via the /etc/X11/wdm/Xservers file? If so
the syntax is beyond me at the moment. I would like to think that I am
not as dumb as a bag of hammers but facts tend to implicate me as so
being :-/

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


-- 
Frisco Rose "By any other name, I would smell the same"
E.O.U. Stud. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Physics  Mathematics  Computer Science

If all the ipv6 addresses were distributed evenly across the planets
surface, there would be roughly 423,354,243,695,259,002,656 per square inch.
And, no, I don't know what this has to do with anything.
 

Re: Bochs / VGA-Bios license question / freebios anyone?

[goswin . brederlow]

Ulrich Eckhardt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Sun, 13 Aug 2000, Roland Bauerschmidt wrote:
> > As Goswin mentioned earlier it's also possible to use bochs with some
> > other bios 
> [snip]
> 
> I´m not sure if this even touches this discussion but what about using the 
> bios
> that is already present on most computers? 
> Wouldn´t that reduce the dependencies to nil?

If you tell me how to read that and how to make simulate the same
hardware it runs on down to the last bit.

If the user has a PII-X ide controler you must emulate that, if he has
a Promise ide controler, you must emulate that. Now way.

MfG
Goswin

Re: X with wdm capable of selecting host at login

[Jonathan D. Proulx]

On Mon, Aug 14, 2000 at 05:52:07PM -0700, esoR ocsirF wrote:

:# /etc/init.d/wdm stop
:# X -indirect localhost
:
:and I get an X background with a mouse cursor but no wdm panel. I, once
:again, assume that this is the correct behavior. So I am now thinking,
:do I pass these options to X via the /etc/X11/wdm/Xservers file? If so
:the syntax is beyond me at the moment. I would like to think that I am
:not as dumb as a bag of hammers but facts tend to implicate me as so
:being :-/

this means either:

there are no host on the local subnet which are willing to let you
connect via XDMP or some thing is scrod in your config files (like wdm
is looking at xmd's config or some other random weirdness).

I've always found Linux XDMP (well XFree86 I guess) to be kind of
tempermental, I don't know where you're machine is network wise, but
if there's any Solaris boxen available try:

X -indirect solaris.my.network

making the apropriate name change, if this machine is on the same
subnet you could verify if there's simply no hosts willing to talk
XDMP. 

-Jon

--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
sysadmin to the stars

Re: X with wdm capable of selecting host at login

[Brian May]

> "esoR" == esoR ocsirF <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

esoR> On Mon, Aug 14, 2000 at 02:23:50PM -0700, Philippe Troin
esoR> wrote:
>> In /etc/X11/wdm/wdm-config, add:
>> 
>> ! Use our chooser DisplayManager*chooser: 
>> 
>> Start X with "X -indirect localhost" and voila.

esoR> Ok, this sounds like like what I am looking for but, I seem
esoR> to be brain dead. If I modify the wdm-config as noted and
esoR> resart wdm via

esoR> # /etc/init.d/wdm resart

esoR> I just get the normal login. Which I assume is the correct
esoR> behavior for wdm since I haven't started X as noted (and yes
esoR> the chooser is installed). So I

esoR> # /etc/init.d/wdm stop # X -indirect localhost

esoR> and I get an X background with a mouse cursor but no wdm
esoR> panel. I, once again, assume that this is the correct
esoR> behavior. So I am now thinking, do I pass these options to X
esoR> via the /etc/X11/wdm/Xservers file? If so the syntax is
esoR> beyond me at the moment. I would like to think that I am not
esoR> as dumb as a bag of hammers but facts tend to implicate me
esoR> as so being :-/

You have to get out of the somewhat broken thinking that "wdm is the
X-Window server". This, for the general case, is wrong.  wdm is the
display manager, that just happens to start the X server by default on
most installations.

However, when wdm starts the X-server, you can't tell the X-Server
to use another display manager (as it uses the wdm that was used to
start it).

So, you have to start X manually telling it to use the alternative
display manager. In this case, the display manager is initially
responsible for displaying a list other display managers which you
can connect to.

I have developed a simple script that automatically restarts X on
reboot. See the attached file. oops, I just realized in the comments I
call it "X display manager". This obviously should read "X
server". This file is (IIRC) in the diskless Debian package.

#!/bin/sh
# /etc/init.d/X: start or stop the X display manager

set -e

PATH=/bin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/usr/sbin
DAEMON=/usr/bin/X11/X
PARAMS="$*"
LOG=/var/log/X.log

exec > $LOG 2>&1

test -x $DAEMON || exit 0

  if head -1 /etc/X11/Xserver 2> /dev/null | grep -q Xsun; then
# the Xsun X servers do not use XF86Config
CHECK_LOCAL_XSERVER=
  else
CHECK_LOCAL_XSERVER=yes
  fi

if [ "$CHECK_LOCAL_XSERVER" ]; then
  problem=yes
  echo -n "Checking for valid XFree86 server configuration..."
  if [ -e /etc/X11/XF86Config ]; then
if [ -x /usr/sbin/parse-xf86config ]; then
  if parse-xf86config --quiet --nowarning --noadvisory 
/etc/X11/XF86Config; then
problem=
  else
echo "error in configuration file."
  fi
else
  echo "unable to check."
fi
  else
echo "file not found."
  fi
  if [ "$problem" ]; then
echo "Not starting X display manager."
echo "Pausing for five minutes."
sleep 300
exit 1
  else
echo "done."
  fi
fi
echo "Starting X server: X"
$DAEMON $PARAMS

exit 0
-- 
Brian May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: X with wdm capable of selecting host at login

[Brian May]

> "Brian" == Brian May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

esoR> # /etc/init.d/wdm stop # X -indirect localhost

esoR> and I get an X background with a mouse cursor but no wdm
esoR> panel. I, once again, assume that this is the correct
esoR> behavior. So I am now thinking, do I pass these options to X
esoR> via the /etc/X11/wdm/Xservers file? If so the syntax is
esoR> beyond me at the moment. I would like to think that I am not
esoR> as dumb as a bag of hammers but facts tend to implicate me
esoR> as so being :-/

Oh, sorry, I must have read that too fast, I though you said that the
above command worked. 

Oh, I see, you have stopped the wdm server... Of course X is not going
to be able to talk to the display manager on localhost if you just
killed the display manager...

I think you want to reconfigure wdm so it doesn't start the X server
automatically (I use gdm, sorry I can't remember how to do it on wdm,
except I know it is very simple), then the above X command will work
if wdm is running at the time.

Another command you might find of some use is

X -query remotehost.com.au

(of course, give your own host name).
-- 
Brian May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: X with wdm capable of selecting host at login

[esoR ocsirF]

On Mon, Aug 14, 2000 at 09:19:41PM -0400, Jonathan D. Proulx wrote:

> this means either:
> 
> there are no host on the local subnet which are willing to let you
> connect via XDMP or some thing is scrod in your config files (like wdm
> is looking at xmd's config or some other random weirdness).
> 
> I've always found Linux XDMP (well XFree86 I guess) to be kind of
> tempermental, I don't know where you're machine is network wise, but
> if there's any Solaris boxen available try:
> 
> X -indirect solaris.my.network
> 

OK I tried 

X -indirect myXhost.edu
and it just resarts over and over but, if I do

X -query myXhost.edu 
I get the myXhost wdm login panel. This would indicate to
me that XDMP is functioning from myXhost. I think my problem is that I
dont have any way to start wdm once X has started. I am assuming that
the correct thing to do was to just start X by hand and not try to start
wdm.

-- 
Frisco Rose "By any other name, I would smell the same"
E.O.U. Stud. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Physics  Mathematics  Computer Science

If all the ipv6 addresses were distributed evenly across the planets
surface, there would be roughly 423,354,243,695,259,002,656 per square inch.
And, no, I don't know what this has to do with anything.
 

Re: ITP: sather-elisp

[Steve Greenland]

On 11-Aug-00, 19:04 (CDT), Herbert Xu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> Steve Greenland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> debview - Emacs mode for viewing Debian packages
> 
> > (And I, for one, would not object to debview being folded into dpkg.)
> 
> As a vi user, I would.

Why? Oh, I see, because it depends on (x)emacs...agreed. Hmm, there
ought to be a (debian standard) way for packages to include pieces that
enhance other programs without requiring them. Or is the the 24K that
debview requires?

Steve

Re: Intent To Split: netbase

[Manoj Srivastava]

>>"John" == John Goerzen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

 >> No real reason? Only one package can listen in on port 25, and

 John> There is no real reason that all must listen on port 25.

Then you and I have very different opinions on what a working
 MTA is. Indeed, the SMTP RFC's differ with your opinion as well

 John> These aren't real reasons at all.  

Given that, you have a curious definition of
 ``real''. Unfortunately, I do not think I find your definition of
 real very interesting.

 Brendan> I agree with you in general. But it would be nice if
 Brendan> packages that conflicted on, say, portnumber, could let you
 Brendan> choose another port to run them on, and maybe give the
 Brendan> official port to one particular program (like alternatives
 Brendan> for portnumbers). I realise quite a lot of programs have
 Brendan> hardcoded portnumbers in the upstream source, and that for
 Brendan> most purposes it wouldn't often be super useful, but it does
 Brendan> have certain advantages.


One should optimize for the most common case. I think people
 who can maneuver around the port numbers can also recompile or use
 dpkg -x effectively.

I am unsure that the results are quite worth the effort that
 needs be expended.

manoj
-- 
 Support your local church or synagogue.  Worship at Bank of America.
Manoj Srivastava   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05  CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C

Re: Intent To Split: netbase

[Branden Robinson]

On Mon, Aug 14, 2000 at 10:27:22AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> >>"Branden" == Branden Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
>  Branden> Of course.  The obvious answer is that programs that have
>  Branden> some utility to unprivileged users should go in /bin (or
>  Branden> /usr/bin).
> 
>   The problem with that is that it is all so very subjective,
>  and it all depends on the ``unprivileged user''. Under this tacit
>  policy, there is unlikely to be a solution that satisfies
>  anyone. Indeed, a more workable criteria may be to put things in sbin
>  that _require_ priviledges (things like mount, fsck, etc), and say
>  that sbin contains programs that are useless to the unpriviledged
>  user. 
> 
>   I think that would be way less controversial.

Fine with me; either interpretation would get traceroute into (/usr)?/bin.

Actually, I disagree with your example of mount.  It's quite handy even
without privileges.  It tells me what's mounted.  Same with ifconfig, it
tells you what interfaces are up and doesn't need privileges to do so.

On the other hand, fsck seems to be a good example of a program that can't
do much for the unprivileged user.

-- 
G. Branden Robinson |Kissing girls is a goodness.  It is a
Debian GNU/Linux|growing closer.  It beats the hell out
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  |of card games.
http://www.debian.org/~branden/ |-- Robert Heinlein


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Re: Intent To Split: netbase

[Branden Robinson]

On Mon, Aug 14, 2000 at 09:54:28AM -0400, Chad Miller wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 14, 2000 at 09:22:27AM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
> > Perhaps not. But a traceroute in /usr/bin would satisfy more people than
> > a traceroute in /usr/sbin.
> 
> Hear, hear!  It would be a flag day for a few poorly written programs
> out there, but a reorg is worth it.

Then they're VERY poorly written.  The proper way (in posix sh) to invoke a
command that should be in the path (but look before you leap) is this:

if command -v desired_command > /dev/null 2>&1; then
  desired_command --args
fi

(It would be nice if POSIX had thought to include a -s option to shut
command up and just return an exist status so as to avoid all that ugly
redirection, but oh well.)

-- 
G. Branden Robinson |   If you have the slightest bit of
Debian GNU/Linux|   intellectual integrity you cannot
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  |   support the government.
http://www.debian.org/~branden/ |   -- anonymous


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Re: Bug#69090: strange su / which / apt behaviour

[Branden Robinson]

On Mon, Aug 14, 2000 at 12:47:29AM -0400, David Grill Watson wrote:
> I've noticed that some time recently (not sure when) when I su to root while 
> I'm in X, I no longer have access to the X session - I have to do an xhost 
> +localhost as the current user.
> 
> It wasn't like that before - and should something be done about that? It 
> seems pretty broken to me.

Read the Debian X FAQ.

/usr/doc/xfree86-common/FAQ.gz

-- 
G. Branden Robinson | If a man ate a pound of pasta and a
Debian GNU/Linux| pound of antipasto, would they cancel
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  | out, leaving him still hungry?
http://www.debian.org/~branden/ | -- Scott Adams


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Re: Python 1.5.2 licensing (long)

[Branden Robinson]

On Sun, Aug 13, 2000 at 11:51:52PM -0700, Henry Jones wrote:
[...]

Your lines are so
short that they are
difficult for me to
read.  It's like
listening to a
56kb/s stream
through a 14.4
modem. How about
setting your line
width to between 65
and 75 characters?

-- 
G. Branden Robinson |The errors of great men are venerable
Debian GNU/Linux|because they are more fruitful than the
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  |truths of little men.
http://www.debian.org/~branden/ |-- Friedrich Nietzsche


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Re: X with wdm capable of selecting host at login

[Jonathan D. Proulx]

On Mon, Aug 14, 2000 at 07:02:54PM -0700, esoR ocsirF wrote:

:OK I tried 
:
:X -indirect myXhost.edu
:and it just resarts over and over but, if I do

your host is not accepting indirect connections, this is a
configuration issue (perhaps a weird one).  Since the following works,
atleast myXhost.edu should show up in the chooser window.


:X -query myXhost.edu 
:I get the myXhost wdm login panel. This would indicate to
:me that XDMP is functioning from myXhost. I think my problem is that I
:dont have any way to start wdm once X has started. I am assuming that
:the correct thing to do was to just start X by hand and not try to start
:wdm.

here's what happens (nore or less :)

[EMAIL PROTECTED]> X -indirect bar
 foo: "hey bar know anyone willing to manage XDMP sessions?"
 
 bar: "sure, herse's a list"
  -or-
 bar: "go away I don't want to talk to you"  

[EMAIL PROTECTED]> X -query bar
 foo: "hey bar will you manage an XDMP session for me?"
 
 bar: "sure, herse's my session manager (dm, DTlogin, etc)"
  -or-
 bar: "go away I don't want to talk to you"  


I'm sure I missed some subtleties, but... 
myXhost.edu (if that is your real name) says "go away" to indirect
queries and "sure" to direct queries.

Look over /etc/X11R6/dm/Xaccess again, you should have something
like:

*  CHOOSER BROADCAST   #any indirect host can get a chooser

good luck,
-Jon

Re: ITP: Moscow ML - An implementation of standard ML.

[Nicolás Lichtmaier]

> >  I'm packaging Moscow ML. I'm not an expert in this language (but I know a
> > little of it). Somebody talked to me about this package in a GNU/Linux event
> > here in Argentina (where I gave a Debian talk that went very well!!!) and I
> > commited myself to package this. I will have a package in a few days...
> 
> Don't do that. Moscow ML was my first package when I joined and I had 
> to learn that there are license problems. To be precise it is based on 
> Caml Light which is not GPLed (read: has further restrictions) therefore
> you can't link GPL-code against it. 
> 
> We can't distribute binaries of that :((

 Have you contacted the authors?

Re: Intent To Split: netbase

[Nicolás Lichtmaier]

>  Branden> Of course.  The obvious answer is that programs that have
>  Branden> some utility to unprivileged users should go in /bin (or
>  Branden> /usr/bin).
> 
>   The problem with that is that it is all so very subjective,
>  and it all depends on the ``unprivileged user''. Under this tacit
>  policy, there is unlikely to be a solution that satisfies
>  anyone. Indeed, a more workable criteria may be to put things in sbin
>  that _require_ priviledges (things like mount, fsck, etc), and say
>  that sbin contains programs that are useless to the unpriviledged
>  user. 
> 
>   I think that would be way less controversial.

 Traceroute is not controversial. See... even licq comes configured by
default to call traceroute on other connected users. Traceroute is like
finger, it explores how another host is connected, it's like whois. It's a
site wide networking tool, like rwho or rwall. It has friendly user
interfaces, like mtr or xt.

 All these programs are in /usr/bin.

Re: Intent To Split: netbase

[Nicolás Lichtmaier]

> Then you also want every X11-app to ask if it should install itself in
> /usr/X386/bin or somewhere else and every game-like app if it should
> instaal it self in /usr/bin or /usr/games?

 Worse: There's a package which asks the sysadmin where is dpkg in the
sustem..!

linuxworld brain dump (2)

[Joey Hess]

Hi all. A quick report on Linuxworld expo before I try to get Debian
Weekly News done and go to bed.

The Booth

... Is mostly set up. We still have a Sun box we need to get X on, and a
PPC that needs Debian installed on it. We will be able to give out test
cycle 3 cd's to the ravening hordes for at least 10 minutes ;-) before
they're all gone. (We still need someone to bring ice for the drink
cooler.)

The Award

... Will be presented by Linus to Wichert Akkerman on behalf of Debian
after the keynote, on Tuesday. The keynote starts at 10am, and the
presentation at 11am. Might be wise to sit through the keynote 
(Micheal Dell?!) to get a good seat for the award.

The Press Conference

... Is at, I believe, 1 pm in room J1, to announce the release of 2.2 to
the press. Ian Murdock, Bruce Perens, and Wichert Akkerman will all be
speaking there. We'd love for a lot of hyper people to come to the press
conference, in addition to the press, to make it a busy, crouded,
exciting event so the press gets hyped to write about Debian. I'll swing
by the Debian booth just before 1 pm, as room J1 is a bit hard to find.

The Release Party

... Is on Wednesday night. Drop by the booth to get an invite; it's
invites-only.

-- 
see shy jo

Re: Potato now stable

[Joey Hess]

Anthony Towns wrote:
> By omission, this does a fairly impressive injustice to everyone else
> who helped with development, testing, fixing bugs, documenting problems
> and work arounds, giving support, and everything else everyone's done
> in the past months, so, well, thanks everyone!

Seconded!

>   * Tasks are great, but task-* packages suck when some of the
> packages included have release critical bugs. (Remove the
> package, the entire task breaks)

You know, if apt could only support Reccommends, task packages could be
a lot saner. Sure, it'd still be ugly if something they depended on went
missing, but at least they'd still be usable.

I think apt could support reccommends like this:

* Automatically install all reccommended packages when
  installing/upgrading a package.
* If a package that something reccommended was manually removed, don't
  re-install it next time a package that reccomends it is installed.

Of course whether this is doable is up to Jason..


More later, my battery is dying.

-- 
see shy jo

Re: Potato now stable

[Jason Gunthorpe]

On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, Joey Hess wrote:

> > * Tasks are great, but task-* packages suck when some of the
> >   packages included have release critical bugs. (Remove the
> >   package, the entire task breaks)
> 
> You know, if apt could only support Reccommends, task packages could be
> a lot saner. Sure, it'd still be ugly if something they depended on went
> missing, but at least they'd still be usable.
> 
> I think apt could support reccommends like this:
> 
> * Automatically install all reccommended packages when
>   installing/upgrading a package.
> * If a package that something reccommended was manually removed, don't
>   re-install it next time a package that reccomends it is installed.
> 
> Of course whether this is doable is up to Jason..

I don't care for this much, it breaks the model that apt-get follows, it
adds this extra variable of 'things that were removed' which can lead to
subtle unexepected behavior. The way it is now the command line tool
consistently ignores recommends/suggests, like dpkg. Higher level tools
are free to do whatever they want.

Tasks are bettered handled through some kind of non-package means. I've
long said we need to determine some kind of meta-package scheme (a
'package' whose only purpose is to logically group other packages).

Clearly the desired effect of all meta-packages is to provide the user
with a single node to manipulate and view a group of packages. They should
have special properties in any UI, you should be able to view and
manipulate their grouped packages. Idillicly the grouping would have
priorities of packages (ie -python doesn't need to install every freaking
package, but some are definately critical) and the ability to track and
optionally install new packages added to the group, remove the whole
group, etc.

All this data is orthogonal to the dependency structure. Perhaps if some
thought is put into this a rational solution to the package splitting
problem can be found (convert the old 'big' package into a meta-package
before touching the original 'big' package -> provides a simple and safe
transition?) 

If you take this thought to it's logical extent then things like the
important priority are mearly hard coded examples of this.

Logically, the way to represent this is to have package declare their
membership in a grouping. This could be done via the override file so as
to maintain a centralized authority like we have no with the task
packages. Groups and user preferences about them could be stored seperate
to the status file.

Jason

Re: policy changes toward Non-Interactive installation

[Joey Hess]

Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>   If there is an alternate mechanism in place it would be time
>  to make it policy. But debconf is not required yet, and it may not
>  fit all potential cases anyway (more on it below).

I read your entire message and could not find any examples of things
that debconf cannot handle correctly, except of course for conffile
change prompting, which it was never designed to do.

If you have some specific complaints with debconf's design, please post
them, but I'm rather confused about what you're talking about right now,
especially since your whole message was very non-specfic and I often 
couldn't tell if you were talking about whatever Goswin was talking about,
or about debconf.

>How about this scenario: Package A needs to run a program from
> Package B, and let the user choose between alternatives in order to
> configure package A to be in a working state. Unfortunately, the
> alternatives are not known before the program is run. Package A is a
> daemon process, so we stop the daemon before unpacking, and we start
> it after configuring. We pre-depend on package B, so that our program
> is available to us.

Yes, debconf can handle this, with no behavior changes *at all* from how
it would have traditionally been done.

-- 
see shy jo