Re: [Cython] Rewriting/compiling parts of CPython's stdlib in Cython
Den 24.03.2011 20:38, skrev Robert Bradshaw: I started a list at http://wiki.cython.org/Unsupported . I'd say we can be as compatible as Jython/IronPython is, and more than CPython is between minor versions. I would be happy with a short, well-justified list of differences. This will be clearer once the community (which we're a part of) defines what Python vs. implementation details means. Looking at Guido's comment, Cython must be able to compile all valid Python if this will have any chance of success. Is the plan to include Cython in the standard library? I don't think a large external dependency like Cython will be accepted unless it's a part of the CPython distribution. Why stop with the standard library? Why not implement the whole CPython interpreter in Cython? Sturla ___ cython-devel mailing list cython-devel@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/cython-devel
Re: [Cython] Rewriting/compiling parts of CPython's stdlib in Cython
Sturla Molden, 25.03.2011 14:03: Den 24.03.2011 20:38, skrev Robert Bradshaw: I started a list at http://wiki.cython.org/Unsupported . I'd say we can be as compatible as Jython/IronPython is, and more than CPython is between minor versions. I would be happy with a short, well-justified list of differences. This will be clearer once the community (which we're a part of) defines what Python vs. implementation details means. Looking at Guido's comment, Cython must be able to compile all valid Python if this will have any chance of success. I think there are two levels of required compatibility, the lower one of which applies to a reimplementation of C modules in Cythen. That's the reason why I see that as the more worthwhile goal for now. Is the plan to include Cython in the standard library? I don't think a large external dependency like Cython will be accepted unless it's a part of the CPython distribution. It was the plan a while ago, but the problem is that Cython's evolution (and stability) isn't very much in line with that of CPython. I'm not as pessimistic as you seem to be, though. From the POV of CPython, Cython is basically just a build tool. We could try to come up with a release series that we consider stable enough to base CPython on it. If we agree to maintain that for the whole lifetime of the corresponding CPython release(s), it wouldn't necessarily have to be part of CPython itself (although it could...) Why stop with the standard library? Why not implement the whole CPython interpreter in Cython? No-one said we'd stop there. ;) However, going down that route will quickly turn into a problem of boot-strapping. How would you run Cython without a Python interpreter? Would you need an old interpreter installed in order to run Cython to build a new one? Currently, you only need a C compiler and cmmi tools. I could easily understand anyone who'd reject entering into such a recursive dependency. Stefan ___ cython-devel mailing list cython-devel@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/cython-devel
Re: [Cython] Rewriting/compiling parts of CPython's stdlib in Cython
On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 6:42 AM, Stefan Behnel wrote: > Sturla Molden, 25.03.2011 14:03: >> >> Den 24.03.2011 20:38, skrev Robert Bradshaw: >>> >>> I started a list at http://wiki.cython.org/Unsupported . I'd say we >>> can be as compatible as Jython/IronPython is, and more than CPython is >>> between minor versions. I would be happy with a short, well-justified >>> list of differences. This will be clearer once the community (which >>> we're a part of) defines what Python vs. implementation details means. >> >> Looking at Guido's comment, Cython must be able to compile all valid >> Python if this will have any chance of success. Good thing that's our goal (pending an actual definition of "all valid Python.") > I think there are two levels of required compatibility, the lower one of > which applies to a reimplementation of C modules in Cythen. That's the > reason why I see that as the more worthwhile goal for now. > > >> Is the plan to include Cython in the standard library? I don't think a >> large external dependency like Cython will be accepted unless it's a part >> of the CPython distribution. > > It was the plan a while ago, but the problem is that Cython's evolution (and > stability) isn't very much in line with that of CPython. I'm not as > pessimistic as you seem to be, though. From the POV of CPython, Cython is > basically just a build tool. We could try to come up with a release series > that we consider stable enough to base CPython on it. If we agree to > maintain that for the whole lifetime of the corresponding CPython > release(s), it wouldn't necessarily have to be part of CPython itself > (although it could...) As a first step, CPython would just ship the generated C, only requiring Cython as a development dependency, not a build dependency. This would also be safer from the stability POV. >> Why stop with the standard library? Why not implement the whole CPython >> interpreter in Cython? > > No-one said we'd stop there. ;) Of course the CPython interpreter is a large, fairly-optimized C codebase already, so the pitfalls of just re-writing it for the sake of re-writing it probably outweigh the gains. > However, going down that route will quickly turn into a problem of > boot-strapping. How would you run Cython without a Python interpreter? Would > you need an old interpreter installed in order to run Cython to build a new > one? Currently, you only need a C compiler and cmmi tools. I could easily > understand anyone who'd reject entering into such a recursive dependency. It would be as easy as bootstrapping gcc... :). - Robert ___ cython-devel mailing list cython-devel@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/cython-devel
Re: [Cython] Rewriting/compiling parts of CPython's stdlib in Cython
Sturla Molden wrote: Why stop with the standard library? Why not implement the whole CPython interpreter in Cython? That would be tricky, because the code that Cython generates depends on large chunks of CPython as an infrastructure. -- Greg ___ cython-devel mailing list cython-devel@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/cython-devel
