Doc writers - contributors
Dear gnu/hurd friends, I am very interested in helping you create documentation for gnu/hurd development. I do not have a lot of coding experience, but I am a freelance writer who has used Linux since 2008, in various flavors, as my preferred OS. I would also be interested in creating tutorials for the project. Please tell me more about how I can contribute. Thanks. Tom Ladd
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Re: [pushed][PATCH v3 1/4] Extended-remote follow exec
>>>>> "Thomas" == Thomas Schwinge writes: Thomas> + struct cleanup *old_chain = make_cleanup (xfree, pathname); Please don't add new cleanups to gdb. We're in the process of removing them all. Instead you can use gdb::unique_xmalloc_ptr, or std::string, or a std::vector of some flavor. thanks, Tom
Re: [pushed][PATCH v3 1/4] Extended-remote follow exec
>>>>> "Tom" == Tom Tromey writes: >>>>> "Thomas" == Thomas Schwinge writes: Thomas> + struct cleanup *old_chain = make_cleanup (xfree, pathname); Tom> Please don't add new cleanups to gdb. Tom> We're in the process of removing them all. Tom> Instead you can use gdb::unique_xmalloc_ptr, or std::string, or a Tom> std::vector of some flavor. I went ahead and added a patch to fix this to my series to remove cleanups, so you don't need to do anything about this one. Tom
Documentation for lwip-hurd
Hi, I have been developing documentation for the hurd port of lwIP. So far, it has brief descriptions about all functions, the starting up of the translator and the journey of a packet. We are now planning to add overview for the files and details about function parameters. The wiki is temporarily hosted at http://lwip-hurd-doc.herokuapp.com. Please check it out and let me know if you have any comments or suggestions. Thank you. Regards, Sooraj Tom Computer Science and Engg. Indian Institute of Technology Palakkad Palakkad
Re: Documentation for lwip-hurd
Sure. The source repository is at https://github.com/soorajtom/lwip-hurd-doc . I will notify you as soon as I am finished. Thank you. On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 1:40 AM Joshua Branson wrote: > Sooraj Tom <111501...@smail.iitpkd.ac.in> writes: > > > Hi, > > > > I have been developing documentation for the hurd port of lwIP. So far, > it has brief > > descriptions about all functions, the starting up of the translator and > the journey of a > > packet. We are now planning to add overview for the files and details > about function > > parameters. > > > > The wiki is temporarily hosted at http://lwip-hurd-doc.herokuapp.com. > Please check > > it out and let me know if you have any comments or suggestions. > > If you are willing to put this under a free license, then I could > probably put it on the official hurd wiki. > > > > > Thank you. > > > > Regards, > > Sooraj Tom > > Computer Science and Engg. > > Indian Institute of Technology Palakkad > > Palakkad > > > > -- > Joshua Branson > Sent from Emacs and Gnus > >
Re: uname -s and naming confusion
Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote:
Robert Millan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
On Thu, Oct 24, 2002 at 11:05:56AM -0700, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote:
Robert Millan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
According to documentation of BSD Unix [1], the uname command appeared
in 4.4BSD distribution, and the -s option is suposed to:
Oy, it gets even more confusing. BSD has always used the term
"operating system" to refer to the kernel.
heh, then i wonder how did they call the OS. anyway if the docs say
operating system IMHO this is what we're suposed to print ("do what i say
not what i do" ;))
They called it the "distribution", as in the "Berkeley Software
Distribution". Isn't this fun! :)
This sort of ambiguity is common. The authors of a major OS textbook
(http://www.bell-labs.com/topic/books/os-book/) refer to Mach as an
"operating system".
In any case, the output of a GNU/Hurd system on uname should match
other GNU systems, and I don't see it as a particularly Hurd-specific
issue.
there's an important difference. "GNU/Hurd" is a more specific way
to refer to _the_ GNU system, while other GNU systems like GNU/Linux
are _variants_ of the GNU system.
Sure, but I think practical consistency is important. I'm happy to
change the thing they way suggested here, but only if it's a change
more general than just us. Otherwise, we only spread confusion.
Doesn't a lot of this confusion come from:
1. No enforced standardization of terminology.
The GNU project uses the term "operating system" to refer to the
complete *usable* system, ie. GNU, GNU/Hurd, GNU/Linux, and "kernel" to
refer to the kernel, ie. Linux, Hurd/Mach, Hurd/L4, etc., whereas the
BSD people say "operating system == kernel".
2. No authority mandating the names of operating systems (in the GNU
sense of the term)
Last I checked, there's nothing stopping a company from putting out a
system based on GNU, Linux, BSD, etc. and using any of these terms in
the system's name. Mandrake could, for example, ship a product called
the "Mandrake Operating System", which would be their distribution of
GNU/Linux, without having either "GNU" or "Linux" in the system's name.
Of course, everyone puts either "GNU/Linux" or "Linux" in their name so
that everyone knows what they're talking about.
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Re: uname -s and naming confusion
Robert Millan wrote: On Fri, Oct 25, 2002 at 03:36:02PM -0700, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote: Tom Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: The GNU project uses the term "operating system" to refer to the complete *usable* system, ie. GNU, GNU/Hurd, GNU/Linux, and "kernel" to refer to the kernel, ie. Linux, Hurd/Mach, Hurd/L4, etc., whereas the BSD people say "operating system == kernel". Yes. So what I'm saying is "Let's not add to the confusion. For what i can see, the confusion consists in that many people think the Hurd is an operating system whereas GNU is a collection of software that just happens to work well on Un*x. I don't think many people think the Hurd is an operating system in the sense that GNU is an operating system. People who say that the Hurd is an operating system are using the term 'operating system' the same way the BSD people were when they made uname -s print out the name of the 'operating system', meaning the name of the kernel. So the issue isn't "people think the Hurd is an OS", the issue is "some people refer to all kernels or kernel-like projects as operating systems". Let's at least try and keep all the variants of the GNU system compatible in their use of terminology." GNU/Linux has a bug that makes it print the kernel name when asked for the operating system name. This is *not* a bug. It's a disagreement between HUMAN BEINGS over terminology. We don't say that other people are "buggy" if they disagree with us. The GNU project is free to say, "When we say 'operating system', we mean a complete usable system, including ...". Others are free to say 'operating system == kernel', and there is precendent for this use of terminology. I think Thomas is quite right in saying that the GNU project should have a consistent definition of "operating system" that it uses in all GNU products. That bug is particularly annoying because it cannot be fixed without causing major breakage. As a consequence, guname inherited wrong terminology to workaround the first bug. Saying there is such a thing as "wrong terminology" means that there is a central authority mandating what "correct terminology" is. I am aware of no such authority (although those in Great Britain and the Commonwealth may look to the Oxford English Dictionary, and Americans to Merriam-Webster... I don't think either of them specialize in technical definitions, though!). This bug is specific to GNU/Linux. GNU prints "GNU", and GNU/FreeBSD, for example, will print "GNU/FreeBSD" in the OS name. Do you think the GNU system and the rest of its variants should be compatible with that bug or that misuse of terminology? What is GNU/FreeBSD? http://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html#bsd -- ___ / | / Tom Hart | | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | \ "rmTFM - Build consistent interfaces."| \___| ___ Bug-hurd mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-hurd
Re: uname -s and naming confusion
Robert Millan wrote: The real problem comes when people who think "OS != kernel" (which are 99% of people) learn from the first group that the Hurd is an OS, which is completely wrong. I think 99% of people don't have a clue what a kernel is. I know I didn't before I started using GNU/Linux. For that matter, 99% of people are never going to use the command line, compiler, or anything else that isn't one of their desktop's GUI apps. I think Thomas is quite right in saying that the GNU project should have a consistent definition of "operating system" that it uses in all GNU products. The GNU project has already a consistent definition of "operating system": "An operating system is not just a kernel; it also includes compilers, editors, text formatters, mail software, and many other things." (http://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-history.html) Good. I didn't mean to say that I didn't think such a definition existed. Saying there is such a thing as "wrong terminology" means that there is a central authority mandating what "correct terminology" is. I am aware of no such authority (although those in Great Britain and the Commonwealth may look to the Oxford English Dictionary, and Americans to Merriam-Webster... I don't think either of them specialize in technical definitions, though!). 1) search for "operating" and "system" in any dictionary, then put them together From my Oxford Dictionary of Current English (I'll avoid Merriam-Webster since it has several "bugs" involving the spellings of words like "colour", "honour", "theatre", "centre", etc.): operating system (n.) basic software that enables the running of a computer program. This is close to the GNU definition, but doesn't include, for example, compilers and text formatters. 2) a usable system is what 99% of people understand when you talk them about "operating system" (M$ windows is an operating system isn't it?). Well, if we're going to be proper, there is no such thing as "M$". However, there is a family of Microsoft Windows operating systems. Now, A. Hasn't RMS said that anything that doesn't ship with a compiler isn't a real operating system. B. Microsoft has gotten in trouble for shipping too much stuff as "part of the operating system" - ie. Internet Explorer, Outlook Express, Windows Movie Maker, Windows Media Player, etc. so if you use the other definition, you're basicaly telling lies to that 99% of poeple. I think *that's* going overboard. 3) the Unix system, which included a complete user environment (and was before BSD), was an "operating system" 4) ask RMS Sure, anything I do for the GNU project, I should be damn sure I'm using the GNU/RMS definition. Otherwise, I'm not playing as part of the team. So if I wrote a piece of GNU software, or a GNU manual, that said "The Hurd is GNU's operating system", that would be a bug that I'd have to fix. But Linux isn't a GNU project. They don't have to use GNU's definitions. So that's a whole other can of worms. Anyhow, back to that 99% of people... I'm sure they don't care what either of us say on the subject. :-) -- ___ / | / Tom Hart | | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | \ "rmTFM - Build consistent interfaces."| \___| ___ Bug-hurd mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-hurd
Re: Hurd server manual (first chunk)
Marcus, Marcus Brinkmann wrote: Hi, I started to document the Hurd server interfaces in the style of a reference manual. The Hurd server interfaces are currently only documented in the .defs files, which is a bit short on detail. I wanted a place where I could put all the lengthy explanations and rationale and protocols, and so I made one. This should probably be part of the big Hurd book some day, or the big Hurd book will be split into different parts anyway. Certainly not the time to decide, a reference manual with all the Hurd server interfaces is definitely self-contained enough to not need to worry about the grand plan too much when writing it. ... If I could make a suggestion... would you consider putting the text of the GPL at the end of the document, and including a reference to that section in the Copying section of the introduction. This is what Matt Grant and I did for the User's Guide that we're working on, since: 1. It makes it easier to browse the manual as a PDF/PS or 1-page HTML file 2. Most people reading the manual will already know the gist of the GPL, so putting it at the end will not lessen the promotion of Free Software In my experience, doing this makes a manual easier to read. -- ___ / | / Tom Hart | | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | \ "rmTFM - Build consistent interfaces."| \___| ___ Bug-hurd mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-hurd
Re: 2nd attemt at reviving the filesystem limit discussion.
Peter 'p2' De Schrijver wrote: On Fri, Dec 06, 2002 at 05:46:13PM +0100, Marcus Brinkmann wrote: The reason for the limit is because the address space on IA32 architecture is 32 bit. Now, you _could_ of course change the kernel interfaces to allow for larger memory objects and only limit mapping windows to 4gb. This might Or you could just use a 64bit machine such as an alpha ? :) Always looking for a hardware solution to a software problem, So then the problem goes away *for now*. Remember that hard drive sizes have this habit of doubling every year or so. Isn't this a re-statement of "640 K ought to be enough for anyone"? -- ___ / | / Tom Hart | | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | \ "rmTFM - Build consistent interfaces."| \___| ___ Bug-hurd mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-hurd
Re: 2nd attemt at reviving the filesystem limit discussion.
Marcus Brinkmann wrote: On Fri, Dec 06, 2002 at 07:02:14PM +0100, Peter 'p2' De Schrijver wrote: On Fri, Dec 06, 2002 at 11:52:52AM -0600, Tom Hart wrote: Peter 'p2' De Schrijver wrote: On Fri, Dec 06, 2002 at 05:46:13PM +0100, Marcus Brinkmann wrote: The reason for the limit is because the address space on IA32 architecture is 32 bit. Now, you _could_ of course change the kernel interfaces to allow for larger memory objects and only limit mapping windows to 4gb. This might Or you could just use a 64bit machine such as an alpha ? :) Always looking for a hardware solution to a software problem, So then the problem goes away *for now*. Remember that hard drive sizes have this habit of doubling every year or so. Isn't this a re-statement of "640 K ought to be enough for anyone"? True, it's not a solution forever. Mmh, I wonder about that. After all, 2^64 bits are enough to store 99 years of 1280*1024, 24 bit movies (with 50 pictures per second) uncompressed. And this leaves you 32061 tera bytes free for some music, books, and the occasional email you write ;) Even if we ignore technical limitations, at one time we will just not be able to produce enough content to fill all that hard disk space. At that time, the way that disk space is used will change a lot. Definitely we will hit the limitations of ext2 (I wonder how long a filesystem check would take ;) So, with the software base we are talking about, 2^64 _will_ be plenty. Everything that might reach that limit will look unlike to the (file) systems we are using today. Doesn't this kind of go against the Hurdish "no arbitrary limits" philosophy, ie. no MATHPATHLEN, MAXHOSTLEN, etc.? I agree that 2^64 bits is amazingly huge. But doesn't this sort of assumption tend to lead to problems later on down the road? -- ___ / | / Tom Hart | | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | \ "rmTFM - Build consistent interfaces."| \___| ___ Bug-hurd mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-hurd
Error during native-install
Hello, all, While doing an installation using Marcus' latest tarball, I got the following message from native-install (on both the first and second run): I just make sure that /libexec/runsystem is properly updated. WHOA! We\'re in deep trouble. The Hurd package did not update the link in /libexec/runsystem. For now, I am making a link manually, but please report this. So I'm reporting it as instructed. -- ___ / | / Tom Hart | | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | \ "rmTFM - Build consistent interfaces."| \___| ___ Bug-hurd mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-hurd
Re: Error during native-install - Solved
I just finished a re-installation with the same tarball. Taking the "--readonly" out of my GRUB menu entry made the problem go away. Joost, did you have "--readonly" in your GRUB menu.lst? If so, this could be where your problem came from. =) Joost van Baal wrote: On Fri, Jan 10, 2003 at 04:06:28PM -0600, Tom Hart wrote: I just make sure that /libexec/runsystem is properly updated. WHOA! We\'re in deep trouble. The Hurd package did not update the link in /libexec/runsystem. For now, I am making a link manually, but please report this. So I'm reporting it as instructed. I guess you're interested too in solving the problem: Did you use the -o hurd option when creating the filesystem for the hurd? You can check by doing tunee2fs -l /dev/yourhurddevice | grep OS This reported GNU/Hurd. =) -- ___ / | / Tom Hart | | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | \ "rmTFM - Build consistent interfaces."| \___| ___ Bug-hurd mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-hurd
Re: Projects in the Hurd
I've been looking at the Hurd for my undergrad topics course. One question my Prof has posed to me is, "How could a program like Apache, which is highly-threaded and servicing multiple HTTP requests, bet better implemented under a multi-server system such as GNU/Hurd?" In addition, we've found looking forward to L4-Hurd to be quite interesting, since Dr. Liedtke had some very good ideas about microkernels. Also, the Hurd community, along with other multi-server projects (ie. SawMill and icky-proprietary QNX) have a lot of documentation on the advantages of multi-server systems. We've also been thinking about how the code for utilities like APT could be trimmed in the presence of a system that supports translators; then, APT wouldn't need any code specific to FTP/HTTP/FILE/CD-ROM, since the translators could be the only part of the system that see the difference. W.r.t. programs with translators, of course, this (superior) style of programming couldn't come about at present, since people would still want APT to work on systems based on Linux and *BSD kernels. Something I've been thinking is, I don't see how translators are inseperably tied to multi-servers. Couldn't a Linux or *BSD kernel be hacked to support translators? Now, maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree here, but it seems to me that if translators could be ported to these systems, then: 1. It would make it easier for programmers to move to a Hurdish style of programming while the Hurd is still stabilizing; 2. The Hurd would get good publicity, since the translator mechanism is a very good idea, and it came from the Hurd developers; and 3. There would be a bigger pool of people helping to solve the problems translators introduce (I'm thinking of discussions on the mailing lists involving UnionFS, for instance). Well, that's my brain dump. I hope it gives you guys some stuff to think about. Good luck with the dissertations! =) Bharata B Rao wrote: Hello, We are looking for projects for our MS dissertation course. We want to know if there we can do something in the Hurd which will be useful. We went through the tasklist at savannah, but we are not sure if it is uptodate. Could you inform us about any significant things that need to be done in the Hurd, which we can take up ? We have written code for Linux kernel and have reasonable understanding of the Linux kernel. Please CC the replies. Regards, Bharata. -- _______ / | / Tom Hart | | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | \ "rmTFM - Build consistent interfaces."| \___| ___ Bug-hurd mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-hurd
UK - email list
Are you targeting UK consumers? Do you want the British to buy your product or visit your website? Our company has carefully collected an email database, which allows to advertise your product or service to the audience of 2.7 million UK citizens! This is the most comprehensive UK email database available on the Internet. All addresses on the database belong to English consumers, are verified and as a proof of their geographical origin end with '.co.uk',which stands for the United Kingdom. The database will be delivered to you in a ZIP archive of a 67MB TXT file. The addresses were collected in the period of July-August, 2004. The price we are asking is $270. To place an order please proceed to: http://www.pguphost.ws/uk.php Please notice that we maintain similar consumer lists for almost all EU countries, Canada, Australia, and some other countries. Sincerely, Tom Theroux ___ Bug-hurd mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-hurd
UK consumers - email list
Are you targeting UK consumers? Do you want the British to buy your product or visit your website? Our company has carefully collected an email database, which allows to advertise your product or service to the audience of 2.7 million UK citizens! This is the most comprehensive UK email database available on the Internet. All addresses on the database belong to English consumers, are verified and as a proof of their geographical origin end with '.co.uk',which stands for the United Kingdom. The database will be delivered to you in a ZIP archive of a 67MB TXT file. The addresses were collected in the period of July-August, 2004. The price we are asking is $270. To place an order please proceed to: http://www.pguphost.ws/uk.php Please notice that we maintain similar consumer lists for almost all EU countries, Canada, Australia, and some other countries. Sincerely, Tom Theroux To be removed, click: http://www.pguphost.ws/out.htm ___ Bug-hurd mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-hurd
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