Hello Dowg, Good to hear from you. If Microsoft comes to the scene and improve narrator to the point where it becomes a viable option then you are perfectly right. I wonder though what impact that would cause on NVDA since Microsoft has been one off their donators sometimes.
Maybe someone can talk about this better, but I have heard that Microsoft didn't develop a professional screen reader before because of legal issues involving small markets being broken by them if they did it. If there are no legal issues, I really hope they improve narrator to a point where it becomes very very good. Obrigado, Marlon Brandão de Sousa > Em 31 de mai de 2017, às 19:15, Dennis Long via Scripting > <[email protected]> escreveu: > > Again Jaws is more powerful They are not stupid they won't raise the price > by 5 times and charge monthly fees. Get realistic! > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Scripting > [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of Doug Lee via Scripting > Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2017 6:00 PM > To: Marlon Brand??o de Sousa via Scripting > Subject: Re: migrating apps > > I've been scripting JAWS for 17 years, have written a few NVDA addons and > contributed substantially to NVDA financially, and scripted Window-Eyes for > one or two clients (the only ones that asked me professionally to do it). > I have a publicly declared stance of wanting to maintain permission to help > any screen reader out there, which is why I have never been an employee of a > screen reader company. I know JAWS scripting best by far and so mostly > script JAWS, but this is based on demand within the job I do have. Should > your scenario come to pass, I think the demand would shift sufficiently to > make that no longer the case. I could also be made to shift my focus on > moral grounds if I clearly see a company taking advantage of position to > force unreasonable prices. (JAWS is expensive but I believe not immorally > billed.) > > But there is an unmentioned reason that I think your scenario will not > happen: Narrator is growing into a full screen reader, as I understand > things. I think Narrator will compete in effect with NVDA and that both will > keep JAWS from having a true monopoly on screen reader solutions. (It will > be most interesting indeed if Narrator one day introduces a scripting > capability...) > > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 04:18:00PM -0300, Marlon Brand??o de Sousa via > Scripting wrote: > This is getting off topic. If you look at history not at technology only you > will see what I'm talking about. For example, I live in a country where we > are just leaving an economic crisis. The way things stand now, corporations > will hardly have the money to buy many jaws licenses. But, even at this > situation, things stand the way they have always been. Now imagine what > would happen shooud the manufacturer rise the price off jaws by 5 times what > it currently is??? Or if they decide to stablish a signature mode where you > have to pay a huge amount per month to use the product. If they did it while > gw micro still existed, I would calmly migrate to window eyes. But you guess > what? The window eyes screen reader does not exist anymore. So while there > is no more concurrence, there is no more safety. My point is pretty clear > and I want to be talking more about this here??? I love jaws and jaws > scripting, and I have been a happy jaws user however due to the recent > movements on the assi stive technology industry I think that NVDA should be > our future by now. The beauty of NVDA is that it is as powerful as we want. > The more scripters The more powerful it gets. Plain and simple. > > Obrigado, > Marlon Brand??o de Sousa > >> Em 31 de mai de 2017, ??s 14:23, Dennis Long <[email protected]> > escreveu: >> >> I don't think NVDA should be the first option it's not as powerful as >> jaws plain and simple >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Scripting >> [mailto:[email protected]] >> On Behalf Of Marlon Brand??o de Sousa via Scripting >> Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2017 1:17 PM >> To: David; Window-Eyes Scripting List >> Subject: Re: migrating apps >> >> There is plenty of documentation for jaws scripting and most parts of > folks will recommend the fsdn stuff. While I recognize that fsdn has the > most updated documentation, I still always recommend that beginners use A > book called everything you always wanted to know about jaws scripting but > didn't know who to ask written by Kennett A. Gold. This is due to the fact > that jaws does not offer a higher level API either, and the book explains > some concepts that window eyes are not likely to know Joe to the higher > level APIs. I am, however, still recommend that everyone look at NVTA as > their first screen reading solution Because putting yourself on the hands of > a commercial product that has no concurrence at all is dangerous. While you > are learning how to script NVDA you will also learn a little bit of its > internals and this will be able to help you improve The reader itself over > tim! >> >> But I'm just letting it clear that I have nothing against jaws or jaws > scripting only that I really think that NVDA should be our first option by > now??? >> >> Again, I ask you to provide feedback to the authors of the NVDA scripting > guide and further documentation. >> >> >> Obrigado, >> Marlon Brand??o de Sousa >> >>> Em 31 de mai de 2017, ??s 06:49, David via Scripting > <[email protected]> escreveu: >>> >>> One of the huge benefits of Chip's classes, I think, was that he >>> started out by teaching some basics about VBScripting, then hooking >>> that up with the more powerful instructions of WEScripting. Now, >>> should they do something similar for NVDA, I do agree, they'd have to >>> run a couple of lessons in basic Python scripting. >>> >>> >>> Comes to Jaws, I still would like to know, if there is any >>> documentation, sample code or anything else for newbies, for their >>> scripting facilities. I was contacted privately by one user, who >>> offered to answer any questions I had, but if there is any material I >>> could read and play with, it would be easier to know what to ask. smiles. >>> >>> >>> David >>> >>>> On 5/30/2017 10:07 PM, Tom Kingston via Scripting wrote: >>>> A set of tutorials like Chip did would be great. The problem is >>>> there's virtually no documentation for NVDA scripting. Although I >>>> understand they plan on working on this and may already have >>>> something going. I haven't checked recently. >>>> >>>> Next it will be quite a trek for us to transition because we'll have >>>> to learn Python as well as the scripting capabilities of NVDA, which >>>> circles back to my point of there being no documentation. Right now >>>> you have to plow through the source code to see what you can do. And >>>> to me, that's the million dollar question. Without any documentation >>>> it's hard for me to find the time and energy to plow through endless >>>> code blocks in order to figure out what I can do with it when it may >>>> or may not meet my needs. >>>> >>>> There's also the question of whether Python 3.x can be used or if >>>> 2.x must be used because it's what NVDA was written in. I say this >>>> because there are some quirks in Python 2.x that are substantial >>>> enough that the original developer of it came back and essentially >>>> rewrote it because there was no other way around that would make it >>>> compatible with 2.x. I'm sure I could get the answer to this easily, >>>> but it only adds to the feeling of being thrown into the sea in >>>> order to see if I can swim or not. >>>> >>>> As for user windows? It's just another dangling question due to the >>>> lack of documentation. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Tom >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 5/30/2017 10:52 AM, Jonathan Cohn via Scripting wrote: >>>>> Mr Lee of NVAccess / NVDA proposed on twitter yesterday having a >>>>> one day class on scripting NVDA. I guess it is time to learn Python. >>>>> Anybody interested in doing a set of regular discussions like Chip >>>>> did way back to migrate our common knowledge into NVDA scripting >>>>> knowledge? I wonder how difficult it would be to have an NVDA that >>>>> emulates the favorite parts of WindowEyes. I expect the hardest >>>>> part considering that NVDA doesn't appear to have a virtual mode >>>>> would be the User Windows functions but then it seems that >>>>> WindowEyes wasn't supporting that very aggressively. >>>>> >>>>> Best Wishes, >>>>> >>>>> Jonathan Cohn >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 7:01 PM Chip Orange via Scripting < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi David, >>>>>> >>>>>> You could look at the possibility of running your app as a Windows >>>>>> VBScript rather than a Window-Eyes VBScript. You'd have to do >>>>>> without the WE dialogs and all the other WE features of scripting >>>>>> which we all used, but if you don't make use of these features >>>>>> very much, you might be able to get a Windows VBScript version to run. >>>>>> If you could, this would be the easiest way to get some apps >>>>>> converted away from WE. >>>>>> >>>>>> VBScript does have some very basic input and output commands (you >>>>>> can display a dialog and get a string response from the user), >>>>>> this could possibly be enough for your needs. It has no >>>>>> equivalents to MSAA or Windows etc., so nothing which assisted you >>>>>> with accessibility is likely to run. >>>>>> >>>>>> Of course, Window-Eyes will continue to run for some indefinite >>>>>> amount of time ... and I'd be glad to share the source code to >>>>>> Remind Me Where with anyone who'd like to try tinkering with it >>>>>> while it does. If you wanted to keep something big like it is >>>>>> running, I would guess learning VB.net might be the closest to >>>>>> what you're used to. >>>>>> >>>>>> Like Richard, I feel something like the end of Animal Farm as well. >>>>>> >>>>>> Take care, >>>>>> >>>>>> Chip >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Scripting >>>>>> [mailto:[email protected]. >>>>>> c >>>>>> om] >>>>>> On >>>>>> Behalf Of David via Scripting >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 11:49 AM >>>>>> To: Aaron Smith; Window-Eyes Scripting List >>>>>> Subject: migrating apps >>>>>> >>>>>> I do understand that an app that has been developed under the >>>>>> great scripting capability of WineEyes, will not be possible to >>>>>> simply plug in under Jaws. At least, it is my understanding, that >>>>>> Jaws has its own dedicated scripting system. >>>>>> >>>>>> Still, a number of apps, both officially released and many that I >>>>>> have developed for my personal usage, would be a great miss when > migrating. >>>>>> Whenever the migrating will be. Smile. >>>>>> >>>>>> Now, is there a way for me, to make my apps become stand-alone, in >>>>>> the sense that they could be run under any screen reader? That >>>>>> they still would be using features like the UI capabilities and >>>>>> other functionality of for instance GWToolkit? I do understand, >>>>>> that apps that make great usage of, or directly works with >>>>>> internal features of WinEyes, may not be possible to run under any >>>>>> other screen readers, since they won't have any functionality to >>>>>> hook on to. But an app like for instance the "remind me where", >>>>>> that Chip Orange developed, and which base its main functionality >>>>>> on information from the net, and greatly on the UI environment of >>>>>> WinEyes scripting, sould such a program be possible to make go > general? >>>>>> Sure I could have thought of a good number of other apps that I >>>>>> have come to rely on, and which would have been great to see under >>>>>> other screen readers. >>>>>> >>>>>> Guess my basic question is, what would I need to do in my app >>>>>> code, to make it possible to run outside the WinEyes environment, >>>>>> if that is at all possible? And if realistic, does there exist any >>>>>> sample code that I can look at, so as to see it done in practicality? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of >>>>>> the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >>>>>> >>>>>> For membership options, visit >>>>>> >>>>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com >>>>>> / >>>>>> lists3717 >>>>>> >>>>>> %40comcast.net >>>>>> <http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.co >>>>>> m >>>>>> /lists3717%40comcast.net> >>>>>> >>>>>> . >>>>>> For subscription options, visit >>>>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.co >>>>>> m >>>>>> List archives can be found at >>>>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of >>>>>> the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >>>>>> >>>>>> For membership options, visit >>>>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com >>>>>> / >>>>>> jon.c.cohn%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> . >>>>>> For subscription options, visit >>>>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.co >>>>>> m >>>>>> List archives can be found at >>>>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>>>> scrubbed... >>>>> URL: >>>>> <http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com >>>>> / attachments/20170530/13d902d4/attachment.htm> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of >>>>> the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >>>>> >>>>> For membership options, visit >>>>> > http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com/tom.kings > ton%40charter.net. >>>>> For subscription options, visit >>>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com >>>>> List archives can be found at >>>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of >>>> the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >>>> >>>> For membership options, visit >>>> > http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com/trailerda > vid%40hotmail.com. >>>> For subscription options, visit >>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com >>>> List archives can be found at >>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com >>>> . >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the > author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >>> >>> For membership options, visit > http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com/splyt.lis > ts%40gmail.com. >>> For subscription options, visit >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com >>> List archives can be found at >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com >> _______________________________________________ >> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the > author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >> >> For membership options, visit > http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com/dennisl19 > 82%40gmail.com. >> For subscription options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com >> List archives can be found at >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com >> > _______________________________________________ > Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author > and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. > > For membership options, visit > http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com/doug.lee% > 40ssbbartgroup.com. > For subscription options, visit > http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com > List archives can be found at > http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com > > -- > Doug Lee, Senior Accessibility Programmer SSB BART Group (soon to be Level > Access) mailto:[email protected] http://www.ssbbartgroup.com "While > they were saying among themselves it cannot be done, it was done." --Helen > Keller _______________________________________________ > Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author > and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. > > For membership options, visit > http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com/dennisl19 > 82%40gmail.com. > For subscription options, visit > http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com > List archives can be found at > http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com > > _______________________________________________ > Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author > and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. > > For membership options, visit > http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com/splyt.lists%40gmail.com. > For subscription options, visit > http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com > List archives can be found at > http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com _______________________________________________ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. 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