Agreed Timothy. LLMs are still of limited utility from a coding standpoint. But - they DO provide utility. Think how poorly LLMs coded 3 years ago - compared to today. They are an order of magnitude better now. I was not a programmer by trade. I needed to produce code to make tools, clean data, conduct analysis, and perform tasks - LLMs have made that increasingly easier. I am more productive. Clearly, I am not a purist - this attitude is anathema to some.
best, Gregg On Tuesday, December 9th, 2025 at 10:42 AM, Ebert,Timothy Aaron <[email protected]> wrote: > > > There are issues with chatbots in terms of what they allow and how they were > trained. Kind of like walking into a mine field. > That said chatbots are useful tools. You can muddy the waters by writing your > own code but have the chatbot help you with specific sub-tasks that you then > assemble into a working program. > Always check the chatbot "answer." Chatbots often assume things or don't > assume things thereby being very certain that their wrong answer is what you > want. You can easily spend as much time correcting the chatbot as you would > writing the program yourself. That said, the chatbot can provide an answer > that works but is not how you would have written the program. > > On many occasions I have had the chatbot state "Here is the fully functional > code ..." only to find that it does not run at all. > Chatbots lie but do so with conviction! > > -----Original Message----- > From: R-help [email protected] On Behalf Of Robert Knight > > Sent: Tuesday, December 9, 2025 10:40 AM > To: Gregg Powell [email protected] > > Cc: R help project [email protected]; Hans W [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [R] Chatbot -generated R Code > > [External Email] > > It seems like malpractice to recommend Claude to someone using R or big data > since what they would use it for is explicitly against the terms of service. > Machine learning predates the microchip. > > See below. > > Also, quality control will make a comeback. Expert systems cannot be replaced > with something akin to Bayes probability charts indedinitely. > > you may not use the service to "develop any products or services that compete > with our Services, including to develop or train any artificial intelligence > or machine learning algorithms or models." > > Claude's terms further state > > "Equitable relief. You agree that (a) no adequate remedy exists at law if you > breach Section 3 (Use of Our Services); (b) it would be difficult to > determine the damages resulting from such breach, and any such breach would > cause irreparable harm; and (c) a grant of injunctive relief provides the > best remedy for any such breach. You waive any opposition to such injunctive > relief, as well as any demand that we prove actual damage or post a bond or > other security in connection with such injunctive relief." > > Machine learning includes linear regression. Other Machine Learning > algorithms include Logistic Regression, decision trees, random forests, > support vector machines, K-Nearest Neighbors, & Bayes Algorithms. It seems to > me, that as of 14 October 2024, no one seeking to handle any data science can > legitimately use Claude > > > On Tuesday, December 9, 2025, Gregg Powell via R-help [email protected] > > wrote: > > > Humans who don't adapt to LLMs, or whatever form AI takes as it > > evolves, will be left in the dust. > > > > People may just now be waking up to the fact that we're three years > > into a tremendous revolution, one of the greatest in human history. It > > follows the Bronze Age, the Iron Age, the Industrial Revolution, the > > computer revolution, the Information Age, and now... AI. > > > > AGI is approaching. How quickly? Who can say. Whether AI can ever be > > truly sentient remains a mystery. But once it can adequately replicate > > sentience, some will ask: what's the difference? > > > > As to the question of who judges what's acceptable from a coding > > standpoint: capitalism will. Corporations will. And the question of > > whether this is the future of coding is already behind us. It is > > coding now, and it will only continue to improve in capability. > > > > Try Replit, Cursor, Claude Code. Humans are incapable of keeping up. > > AI still struggles with some of the most complex tasks, and it does > > poorly at orchestrating across large repositories, but it's improving > > rapidly. > > Just my observations. > > > > Those who look down their noses at all this will be left behind. > > > > All the best! > > Gregg > > > > On Tuesday, December 9th, 2025 at 6:32 AM, Hans W > > [email protected] > > wrote: > > > > > SORRY if I missed such a discussion somewhere on R-HELP > > > > > For many years I wanted to write an R function that finds the > > > closest > > > pair of > > > points among a, maybe huge, set of points on the 2-dimensional > > > plane. I > > > never > > > did, perhaps considering the possible complexity of this task. > > > > > Now I found a book, among others describing the "sweeping > > > algorithm", > > > perfectly > > > suited for the problem. And as a test, I questioned chatbots like > > > DeepSeek and > > > ChatGPT about such a function - and mentioned the sweeping algorithm. > > > > > DeepSeek, for instance, came immediately up with a complete, > > > efficient > > > solution > > > and test cases that I checked with brute force. I can see that it > > > utilized the > > > sweeping algorithm, documented the code, and set up a help file. I > > > made > > > some > > > changes, improved the code a bit, but still it is code generated by > > > a > > > clever > > > chatbot, whatever I do. > > > > > Now I ask myself: Is this a correct and lawful way to write code in > > > the > > > future? > > > I am not even sure DeepSeek may not have used an implementation of > > > the > > > sweeping > > > algorithm that is under ACM license and would not be allowed on CRAN. > > > > > I wonder how one handles this matter? Will this be the future of > > > code > > > writing > > > (for R and other languages)? I would really appreciate to hear your > > > opinion or > > > a hint to a discussion about it. > > > > > Hans Werner > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > [email protected] mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see > > > https://st/ > > > at.ethz.ch%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fr-help&data=05%7C02%7Ctebert%40ufl > > > .edu%7C37900d094b87485ee44c08de3739481c%7C0d4da0f84a314d76ace60a6233 > > > 1e1b84%7C0%7C0%7C639008916320512560%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0 > > > eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIs > > > IldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=uXnwpZweyo3sH3Ndy4naUWah6oVLnhsZ > > > XtgYqe3MNpU%3D&reserved=0 PLEASE do read the posting guide > > > https://ww/ > > > w.r-project.org%2F&data=05%7C02%7Ctebert%40ufl.edu%7C37900d094b87485 > > > ee44c08de3739481c%7C0d4da0f84a314d76ace60a62331e1b84%7C0%7C0%7C63900 > > > 8916320573022%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOi > > > IwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7 > > > C%7C%7C&sdata=uGcdPPvvIumkXqRx1DjECWvS09Oh4b7URAk7BWETbfs%3D&reserve > > > d=0 > > > posting-guide.html > > > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. > > > [[alternative HTML version deleted]] > > ______________________________________________ > [email protected] mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > PLEASE do read the posting guide https://www.r-project.org/posting-guide.html > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
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______________________________________________ [email protected] mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide https://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
